Maybe I'm over playing it but when I hear a V10 I get straight up Horney and my GF loves it for hours... sometimes she she randomly turns on F1 sounds and I know what she wants...
Can confirm as well, every now and then i put on Bozzy´s channel and listen to the Ferrari F1 V10 racing around Imola on my surround system on full blast and just let them go around my head. Legit makes me feel good! 👍
As a musician & sound designer (and Motorsport enthusiast) I’ve replicated several eras of F1 engines on synthesizers before. And you NAILED the explanation of the complex acoustic physics that happens to create that sound. It’s not just RPM, or displacement, or cylinder count, it’s the combined interaction of all three and the design of the exhaust. THANK YOU
@@MorganBrady a rare pleasure when 10 min TH-cam videos are well researched, go deep into a topic, yet explained in a digestible concise manner. Uncommon Tuesday morning W 🤣
I'm sure I remember seeing a while ago that Ferrari has its road cars exhaust notes set to a specific musical interval on purpose but I don't remember what it was off the top of my head.
I would have liked even more acoustic nerd stuff. not sure if the third is that important. I understand the crank rotates at a certain frequency and the piston fire at a other frequency but the sound you hear at a distance is 99% exhaust? I don't think you hear the crank shaft rotation. I guess even if the harmonic is very less loud than the exhaust it can make a small difference in the texture of the sound. it would have been interesting to give the intervals for 8 or 12 cylinders instead of just saying they don't have the right number of cylinders. asides from this harmonic detail most of what are said about V10 would apply to V12 (high rpm, high number of firing for each revolution, high pitch etc)
If you compare engines OF THE SAME YEAR, the V12s were the best sounding, especially the Ferrari (the McLaren Honda V12 sounds totally different than the Ferrari and amazing too but in a different way). Personally, I think even the V8s OF THE SAME YEAR sounded better than the V10s. The V8s had a "thicker" roar, like a dragon or lion or something.
@@Gamer-sq8vc Yeah, I still recall when I travelled to Adelaide for the Grand Prix (I'm from Melbourne, so 'next-door' to the state of South Australia, of which Adelaide is the capital city) in '95 & it was the final F1 race for the Ferrari V12 engine, before all teams were limited to V10 engines thereafter...& it was absolutely incredible to hear ALL of those AMAZING internal combustion engines back then but you REALLY could hear the MASSIVE difference between the Ferrari V12 engine & all of the others from more than a kilometre away, especially during the practice & qualifying sessions, when the cars were more sparsely placed along the circuit & with larger gaps between each of them, you just knew when one of the scarlet red beauties was coming our way next...the incredible SCREAM of the Ferrari V12 is virtually impossible to explain to anyone who never got to experience & enjoy the ABSOLUTE GREATEST F1 ENGINES from their most amazing era, when they were revving up to 17,000 RPM & developing about 760 HP in qualifying trim, although they were obviously very thirsty on fuel...I am SO incredibly thankful that I was there to experience that very last outing for that Ferrari V12 engine at an F1 race, that's for sure!! And just look at the way that all of the mechanics for the current F1 teams flock from their pits to the circuits whenever there is a brief display of a (albeit detuned & never running flat-out, as they were back in 1995) V10 or V12-powered F1 car from the '90s for a few laps...I still remember the first time that I attended an F1 race in Adelaide in the late '80s (as my father was an official at all of the Adelaide F1 races but only the first two held in our hometown of Melbourne, because the Adelaide street circuit was so much more exciting & loud than was the Albert Park circuit, although the latter looked far more impressive on TV, for the fans watching it from all around the world) & while walking along Rundle Mall (which led you directly to the circuit & ended at the barriers for the setup there) with my mother, one of the F1 cars came out for a practice lap & MY MIND WAS BLOWN as soon as I heard it, & the hairs upon my arms & neck were suddenly standing to attention as my endorphins immediately went completely NUTS!! I had previously attended the 500cc & World Superbike races at Phillip Island & God only knows how many national touring car championship races at the Sandown circuit for many, many years by this stage but this first F1 experience was other-worldly...OK, I've already been MORE THAN verbose enough & no amount of additional rambling about the F1 engines from the '80s & '90s will do any more to explain to the unfortunate souls who missed out on them just how UTTERLY AMAZING they really were, sadly (for them, at least)!!
Yeah, and as fast as their revs grew... They resonated with almost everything. (And was a very clean, monochromatic sound - just hearing them made one sure that they weren't wasting energy...) The V10s were like a great rock concert, vis. its energy and voice. (But, the 787B was a symphony!)
i told my friends "the engine feels like its screaming at the top of its lungs, close to blowing the fuck up, all while trying to tear through the fucking car" so aggressive
RBR has said that, by grouping races together geographically, they've cut more emissions than switching back to V12's would generate. Assuming V10's generate lower emissions, I don't see a reason not to go back in the next few formulae.
@@shadowmancy9183 really? that many people buying in to this co2 changes climate bs? people not bothered to actually check the science behind ridiculous and clearly untrue model
@@shadowmancy9183 I think emissions from the race cars shouldn't matter at all. They are wholly insignificant compared to the emissions F1 creates transporting, the cars, the equipment and the team all around the world. Multiple plane flights, tens of transport trucks and vans and tens of cars per team per race. And then you have all the other setup that follows the races around. I'd love the return of V10s, perhaps with synthetic race fuels, but I can';t see it ever happening.
Oh I remember going to the Belgian GP with my dad back in the early zeroes and parking the car far from the circuit and hearing the V10's doing free practice on sunday morning. The engines screaming through the hills there just gave me goosebumps. It was truly breathtaking.
11:43 please send this entire video and in particular this quote straight to the FIA. This is the best, most researched, and well explained thesis on the engine sound in F1 ever! Thanks so much 🙏
I'll never forget the first time i heard the sound of the V10 engine. We parked our car at the Nürburgring in 1999. The sundaymorning warm-up just started. I couldn't see the cars yet but man i heard the engine's screaming like crazy. From that moment i was in love ❤.
As a musician I know exactly what a major third is and how it sounds🎸And as a long time F1 fan I know exactly how a V10 sounds But I never knew the connection between the two so thanks Scott for explaning this 👍
But a V10 also has this slightly hollow/howling banshee noise giving a slight minor/melancholic tone at the same time? Possibly some scooped mids and/or interaction of frequencies.
You have to thank Ange, the developer behind Engine Simulator. It's magical, not only does it synthesize the sound, the software does all the fluid calculations to build the sound, and the result is fantastic. If you "build" the engine correctly you can get the exact sound of a Formula 1 V10
All F1 needs are gravel pits, wide-angle camera's without overly zooming in on the cars in corners, 100-150 kg lighter cars and - above all - V10s! Which should even be polarbear-friendly with their so much hyped biosustainable fuels :) Everyone wins!
@@v4skunk739then get rid of the engine restrictions! Set max displacement and max power and let everyone build what they want! If you want to avoid 4 bangers limit the cylinder count to a minimum of 6.
@@v4skunk739 They can push all they want...if efficiency alone is all they're after, with no regards towards creating an actual spectacle, then the cars will just get more and more boring and stay so forever. Efficiency. Is. Not. Fun. Except perhaps to a very select few engineering nerds. This weird dichotomy between the egghead-science-stuff in the background and the RAW LOUD VICIOUS BEASTS that this science created was a huge part of what made F1 so interesting in the first place. Without that second aspect? Yawn. No emotion, no amazement, no awe. The cars are just rolling maths lessons now. There was some decent racing in the last years...but with such boring cars it just feels hollow somehow. They try to manage with bigger, wider, more aggressive looking cars, but it all just falls flat to me. With the upcoming rules betting even more on electric drive...yeah. Snoozefest. An electric lawnmower does pretty much the same job as a petrol one...but boy is it dull.
I love how they got rid of V10's and V8's to appease manufacturers and for environmental reasons. But then added loads more races all over the world and none of the current manufacturers make a consumer available 1.6 V6 Turbo (Apart from the Merc hypercar produced in minimal numbers)
Yup, Formula 1 even trying to claim to be “eco friendly” is a load of 💩. Especially since, as you mentioned, they now jet around the world to 2 dozen races and the greatly increased need for tires. Tires made from petroleum 🤷♂️.
It’s less about actual environmental impact of the F1 show and more about making the cars in F1 relevant to road cars. Barely anyone makes a V10 any more for the road, so they can’t do the “we use F1 technology” in this road car unless there’s some sort of link.
@@CertifiedSlamboy You can go back to naturally aspirated engines but also with the electrical stuff that way, in terms of power unit, road car manufacturers can still say "we use futuristic F1 tech" and if you want to go even further, there are way other types of fuel / fuel combinations that can be used which are wayyy more sustainable. Just get rid of the turbos, that's all.
@@CertifiedSlamboy I struggle to see in what way current F1 cars are relevant to road cars other than the fact that they have a battery. Road cars will never use the kind of complicated hybrid system that's in F1 cars at the moment, and a 1.6L V6 is not exactly rocket science, you don't need an F1 program for that...
As a musician / audio engineer by trade, and a racer by hobby… the comparison between cylinder count and note interval and harmonies was FREAKING AWESOME. Thanks Scott!
Part of the overall sound from a V10 era F1 car came from the gearbox. I was privileged to see a transmission testing device built on spec for a F1 team. In a demonstration of it's performance it was programed to run the gearbox through an actual lap of the Melbourne Albert Park track. Even with sound reducing insulation covering the gearbox the noise was deafening. Sadly, the incredible sounds of those cars will never return to competition. Support the heritage and vintage race car events to make sure we have somewhere to hear that glorious howl again.
Full time professional musician here. Thank you so much for including some basic music theory in this video. You've confirmed a few things I've suspected for quite some time about V10s. The only other thing that you might consider when we talk about how much we love the sound of these engines is the exhaust plumbing itself. If the engines had no exhaust tubing, they'd sound like static, or possibly a machine gun firing. The tubing length and material creates points of resonance and stagnation along the duct work. The more different lengths of tube you have, the better your chances of resonation occurring as the engine goes through various rpm speeds, and therefore notes and overtones. V10s have a fair amount more piping than V8s, so you get the idea. If you've ever played a trumpet, you understand how different the sound of the mouthpieces buzzing is to when the mouthpiece is played into the brass tube that is the instrument. And speaking of brass, the alloys that the exhaust pipes are made of - typically titanium or chromium based - aren't terribly different from those used in musical instruments, in terms of their resonant and vibrational properties. So, taking all this into account, it becomes easy to see how a V10 is basically a mechanical version of a pipe organ, brass choir, or something not unlike the instruments we actually play on. To my point, if you haven't seen it before, here's a lovely version of the 2005 Renault F1 playing God Save The Queen. Thank you again for the video! th-cam.com/video/XRXwWbo_mX0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=wQdAgj7SZlBq6bkr
Yep. I believe the exhaust design more than anything else decides how the engine will sound. Along with the firing intervals of course (even or uneven firing intervals). But just comparing engines with even firing intervals, you can make them sound pretty similar as long as you can reach the same amount of little explosions per minute (frequency).
Even though music theory says the V10 sounds better than a V12 i disagree. The V10 scream is for sure pleasing to the ear and but to me the V12 always has much more character and i like the lower pitch, and the increased piston amount is such a beautiful sound on downshifts. Also on road cars when the revs aren’t a 19 000, a V12 sounds miles better to me than a V10 that it’s not even a comparison. A good NA V12 will resonate your soul much more than a V10 ever can, even ar very low revs or at idle, and has this raw and deep lion/dragon roar type of sound to it that a V10 doesn’t have. If you stand next to a Huracan V10 when it revs or accelerates, yeah the V10 scream is a great sound, but an Aventador V12 will make you feel much more, so to me ending the video with ”it’s music theory proven” and not mentioning the many benefits and sound characteristics of a V12 is ignorant. Just listen the Lamborghini Essenza on youtube and tell me it would sound better if it had a V12. No way that would be ever the case.
3:40 Well, they used the V10 in the peugot 905 because group C rules almost forced teams to use formula one engines. Many see this as the rule that broke group C
@@jacobstewart7915 iPhone ringtone are .mp4r files and can be created using many free utilities. You can use any audio sample that you like and it’s legal for personal use but can’t be distributed.
Just to clarify, the reason why typical V8 engines sound the way they do is because the cross-plane crankshaft forces a firing order that kind of goes like: left-right-left-right-left-left-right-right. That slight hiccup at the end with two subsequent cylinders firing on the same side of the V engine is what creates the burble. Supercars and race cars with V8s tend to use a flat plane crank, which allows you to have an even firing order, as in left-right-left-right-left-right-left-right. That makes a cleaner sound and, all else being equal, usually more power too. So is one better than the other? Depends what you're using it for. A flat plane V8 will usually be more powerful but, despite the uneven firing order, a cross-plane V8 will produce less vibration than a flat plane will.
The V10 was because of the displacement limit and available fuel more than anything else. The speed of the flamefront of the burning fuel determines the optimum size of the cylinder and that determines the optimum number of cylinders to maximize the efficiency of each pot.
Wrong. It's mostly because they don't have turbos just like the glorious V8s and V12s. What you mentioned plays a part, sure, but the fact they don't have turbos is, by far, the biggest reason.
@@Spinelli__ When the number of cylinders was a variable teams could explore engine displacement was limited to half the displacement of what it was for non-turbo engines, the turbos also used different fuel. I mentioned displacement and fuel restrictions. The engine decisions F1 teams make are always based on the rules they work under ... when V10s became dominant the REASON they chose 10 cylinders is because of the fuel and the displacement they were allowed to use under the rules. Turbos were a non-factor in their choices because they were against the rules, just like using toluene in the fuel wasn't a factor because it was outlawed too. If there were no limits on fuel, displacement, and had supercharging available they would probably use V12s with turbos, methanol, and nitrous oxide injection and the pit stop refueling would come back.
@@mallusaih inline 3 or v6 can give you a 5th I believe. You'd not be able to make a "perfect" tritone as that's an irrational number. An 11-cylinder car could come close though with an 11:8 ratio
As he was talking about the sound of 20 F1 cars at the start reminded me of the years I went to Indy for the F1 GP. Sound reverberating off of the grandstands was amazing, if not borderline painful. You felt it all through your body. Only sat near the start/finish line one year…lol.
11:40 Its not just about the harmonics. I mix/engineer music/audio. Its also the frequency range of a V10, but also the fact that a Major 3rd is a Poly Rhythm. Freq Range: The main core of the sound is situated in a region that our ears are tuned to. Any V engine with 10 cylinders running at 18'000 rpm, is going to be producing a fundamental note, from RPM note , purely from the combustion cycle, of 1.5 Khz. which is right in the middle of the main frequency band human ears are tuned to (200Hz to about 6Khz). with 1 Khz to 5Khz being where all the detail and definition is in our hearing. A Babies cries is about 3 Khz as are Emergency vehicle Sirens. The 1 to 5 K range is what we hear the most. Its this region of audio that decides how "in your face" a musical mix is. So to put this together, (and to add a further complexity at the end), Not only are harmonics producing a Maj 3rd relationship (which means there is a 1st 3rd and 5th note present), but they are doing it at a frequency range that our ears are particularly sensitive too, so like a distorted guitar amp, its very in your face, but the sound is strangely pleasing so that pleasing nature gets an element of overwhelming, it cannot be ignored, it demands your attention, you are naturally tuned to this freq range Poly Rhythm: What is a Major 3rd? well its actually a 3 over 4 poly rhythm from a pulse/frequency POV. What is a 4 over 4 poly rhythm? basically a 3 beat cycle over a 4 beat cycle , so the so the cycle resets every 12 individual beats. 99.999% of popular music is based around mostly 4 beat cycles and if not, 3 beat cycles. A major 3rd contains both of the most common rhythmical structures within it (this 3 over 4 is based on the pulse of each harmonic and the cycle of them repeating the same pattern ) I really have not articulated this well, but hopefully someone will read this and get something out of it
Not only does it shriek but if seems really loud! It’s also that echo and reverb that comes along with it that sounds so glorious. Now put 15 of them out there.
That super loudness came from fuel cooling. Excess fuel was injected to cool the charger and carry heat from the pistons. The fuel then burns as it exits the exhaust. A modern design injects directly leaving a layer of air over the piston for cooling. So they would lose the chest shaking feature (but go further between pit stops).
I used to love hearing V12, V8's and v10's all singing together... could pick cars out with eyes closed.... wish they just limited total fuel and let the engineers have some fun.
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt Schumi said the 95 Ferrari F1 was good enough to win ths championship when he tested it when he joined Ferrari for the 96 season. Not to mention Prost's Ferrari in 1990. You need an F1 history lesson my friend...and, no, engineers won't install turbos if they're outlawed by the regulations.
@@somebodyelse3004 yes, Ferrari had to fuel up their cars more often. The main point is that when you don’t limit displacement, everybody uses V8 . Time as proven again and again, that those pack max displacement into the lightest block. Generally, F1 cars are too small for V12. On war birds and bombers, V12 wins. I hate those US radial engine birds. The British used V12 in their bombers. Jay Lenno has a car with an air-cooled V12 tank engine. The 180° version is even more easy to cool using air. V12 engines always drive a gearbox. In a plane this could be use to slant the V12 to reduce the size of the air ducts. Small tubes which direct cooling air on the ring where the exhaust meets the head. Then reverse upward. I like chimneys.
I fondly remember the clip of Hamilton trying to do an interview, while being hopelessly, hilariously distracted by Alonso's biblical V10-show out on the track...we know it, and the drivers feel it too. The F1 V10s were a piece of heaven. Nothing will ever top them.
@@Spinelli__ No. No they are not. You people really need to stop throwing your V12 comments under every single V10 comment. It's wrong and just annoying.
@@mito-pb8qg Watch any session between 89 and 94 (and even 95) and compare the 12s and 10s to eachother in the same year/session. The V10s obviously sound incredible - so do the V8s but in a different way - but the V12s are on another level further.
Piston velocity is the reason for the rpm limit, not the mass or stress as thats just an engineering problem. The piston velocity limit is defined by the flame front velocity of the fuel used as the piston can't move faster than the flame front. This is why diesel rev slower as diesel has a slower flame front velocity. So reducing the stroke allows for higher rpm for the same piston velocity, hence more pistons to achieve the same displacement gives shorter stroke thus allowing for more rpm and more flow rate (power).
The "Why we're wired to love F1 V10s" is by far a better title than " Musical engineering lesson" 😂 Loved it! Also this whole video was a treat to watch at home with the 'good' headphones on, made my brain super happy 😃
Interesting video. I always thought it was just the nostalgia that fueled my V10 love, but good to know there's some science behind it. There's nothing that will beat that raw scream
I had the pleasure to watch live races in 1994, 2001, 2002 and 2003 and I miss that sound so much, you could literaly feel the sound in your chest, inside of you
Started watching F1 in 1981, Turbo era was under way but V8s and V12s were still the majority. Through the 80's the muffled V6 turbos dominated....I quit watching by 1989, but I knew that turbos were banned from 1989 on, so I's occasionally watch just to hear the un muffled normally aspirated engines in all their glory...I like the V12 best, I think it's more about the way it sings than any nostalgic reason, although the fist F1 race I watched start to finish was the 1981 Candian Grand Prix, won by a Matra V12.....the 1995 Canadian Grand Prix happened to be the last F1 race won by a V12..
Comparing the various engine "noises" to... musical intervals? Brilliant, as are you, Scott! This opened my mind - and ears - as to how different engines sound. And I realized just how much - and why - I love these V-10 sounds.
This is a great video- but I have have one observation. I attended the 1991 Phoenix AZ F1 race. The best sounding engine was the Lamborghini V12. In person, it sounded like the voice of angels. Goosebumps, man. I have never heard another configuration that sounds better, except for the Group 44 Jaguar GTP IMSA from 1986. Mechanical music.
I do agree that V10s sound magnificent, BUT: The Quattro inline 5, Georg Plasa's Judd V8 in his BMW 134 and the Matra V12 all immensely please my ears. Edit: Forgot the awesome V12 in the Ferrari F412 T2.
As a musician, seeing this concept explained so well is nice. It gets really fun when you can pin a pitch to a certain engine and you can tell exactly what kind of engine and where its revving to based on sound alone.
Being an American, cross-plane V-8s sound so much better than the whine of a flat-plane engine IMO. I loved hearing the modified NASCAR at Le Mans last year, even if it was on video. Half-mile dirt oval racing is my cup of tea. Those thundering V-8s not only sound good, they feel good.
I remember going to the Adelaide GP street circuit and hearing the V12 Ferrari screaming around the track over every other car, what a sound it was, in my opinion just slightly better than the V10.
I love v10 sound but i also like the current sound yes it doesnt have the same grunt as the v10 but i still like it it has a specific rumble that for me is very pleasing to listen and the probably the thing we should all blame is the car industry but that is just my opinion.
The best sound car ever is the Ferrari F2002!! Rubens said that the F2002 and F2004 engine could produce more than 1300hp at more than 21000rpm, but Ferrari didn't even need to use it all because of the advantage the car had over the other teams!
@@456MrPeople Back then, teams were allowed to eg. use one engine during qualification, and replace it afterwards. I believe the "normal" power during races was somewhere around 800 bhp, but that this could be increase significantly if the engine only had to last a couple laps...
Love these more scientific breakdowns, Scott. There are a lot of 'historical' racing channels, but you seem to lean in to more of the science/mechanics of high performance cars. You saved it until the end (I know, I know, YT) but talking about harmonics was very interesting, When are 'we' going upside-down?
Because it's an odd-fire v10. On the contrary, the 2006 audi S8 sounds like heaven even below 2000, having a 90 degree V just like the viper BUT split crank pin to become even-fire
I'll be honest here. I use some early 90's Ferrari F1 sounds from a test day in Barcelona as a mean to calm me down when I can't sleep. Those V12's sound magestic.
I walked into me local Newsagent one Friday and they asked why I was so chirpy, when I said it was because of the V10's screaming around Albert Park, they just rolled their eyes. They just sounded exciting and I went to that years Quali when Schumacher got pole. Unforgettable.
I actually disagree with this. The constant major 3rd interval is grating to the ears after a few minutes, and it was extremely unsettling to the drivers in period (many of whom complained about the high speed harmonic vibrations the engines produced). The V12 is a perfect triad. It's balanced, not just mechanically, but musically, and it will forever be more pleasing to the ear, especially for long durations.
The V12s also sound awesome, but somewhat clinical and synthetic. They got that high-pitched howl, but what they lack the v10 rasp. That raspy high-pitched howl which is actually imperfect, is what makes the V10 sound like a living, breathing creature. Those imperfections in the sound give the feel, that it's running at the absolute limit of what is mechanically possible and that's why we love them so much.
I like the rumbling gurgle of the V8. V10 just sounds like a high pitched whining noises. For me its the difference between a tigers roar and a baby crying.
I love the V10s but the 1978 Matra V12 still takes top spot in my list. Curious to see what a harmonic break down would reveal about where that engine lands on the musical scale. And an honorable mention to Toyota for having Yamaha tune the exhaust for their V10.
A genuinely awesone video. Perfectly explained. I feel much smarter after watching this! I'll never forget the sound of the McLaren MP4/15 at Monza in 2000. It stood out from the field. You could recognise it on approach, it was distinctly different. Sounded so much better, than all the rest. It was like a screaming cat... incredible!
had the luck to live a F1 race with V10 engine. First V10 Formula 1 engine was built by Alfa Romeo in 1986but never raced, even when they tried the Alfa Romeo 164 Procar with that V10. Thanks, now I know why I love V10s and of course they make me happy
i can remember going to an ALMS race where some of the cars were powered by the Judd v10... they were almost painful to listen to when standing next to the track, but what a beautiful sound.
I was lucky enough to attend an F1 race during the V10 era. Absolutely magical sound. I walked into the stands and saw everyone had earplugs. I thought "I've been to a lot of concerts and races, I'll be fine". Nope! 😄 Loudest thing I've ever heard. Painful but I had a big stupid smile on my face every time they went by.
The teams used Keevil airfield to test straight line speed for the old Hock. The V10s could be heard from miles away, and if you know that sound it's unmistakable. People would turn up from miles away because they heard that amazing wail. I was lucky enough to live next to the airfield. Nobody objected to the impromptu audience and we watched many practice starts from literally 25 feet away by many teams. Williams had Monty as their test driver! I think he'd just won F3000 and went off to Chip Ganassi after that . Ta.
Please take this additions: A: Notice, that on case of the Renault RS24 engine, the presentation reveals that the flow INTO the engine makes the difference, not the outflow. As we are used to their exact shape, all downpipe has the same length until the 5 to 1 collector. That could be made to have the same flow for almost any firing order. The intake is different, as blowing to a throw or sucking it is different. B: for more cylinders, the engine can rev higher mainly because the length of the connecting rod, height of the piston and radius of the crankshaft is smaller. The pressure pulling apart these components is like hydrostatic pressure, rho*g*h, but g is here omega^2*r, the ratio of r, the half stroke to h, the component height is the same for any number of cylinder for the given component, and omega is angular speed, appr. rpm/9.5. This pressure must be less than then the tensile/compressive strength (measured in same units as pressure) divided by a practically evolved safety factor. So Ten.Str.>Saf.Fact * rho * c * (r*omega)^2. Notice, that cross sections, and hence masses of components does influence this limit only indirectly via c. Also Notice, that the main limitation is set against r*omega, which is called mean piston speed, and is typically around 24m/s, aka 80 km/h (50 mph) in high performance race car. So the mean piston speed is limited by structural strength, so if you want to have the more firing for a given cylinder volume, you need to have shorter stroke. Hence, max rpm is inversely proportional to stroke. Torque is proportional with engine volume, so power is proportional to engine volume/bore, which is area of pistons, or N*stroke^2.
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt rho denotes density, usually measured in SI by kg/m^3 (Imp: lbs/inch^3). omega stands for angular speed, measured in radians/second. 1 radian is 57 degree. 6000 rev/minutes= 100 rev/sec=628.34 rad/s. [rad/sec] is used in engineering, because tangential speed and more importantly, centrifugal force can be calculated after converting rpm to rad/s. Remark: If it is accepted, that both mean piston speed and average pressure during the power cycle is limited by technology, then power will be proportional to bore area times cylinder count. By formula: P=v_mp * p_power_cycle * A_bore*N_cylinders. aka Power is mean piston speed times power cycle mean pressure times cross sectional area of one cylinder times number of cylinders.
Last line has typo, bore and stroke was exchanged: the correct version would be:... so power is proportional to engine volume divided by stroke, thus proportional to number of cylinders times bore squared.
What I love about the V10s and other older engines is not the sound itself, but the fact that you can hear the car slowing down and speeding up, changing gears, braking and throttle control... Now the engine sound is too monotone in lots of racing series
Having been a long term Le Manns 24 fan, i think my favourite sounding car over the last 35 years, is the Mazda 787B rotory. While very loud, it does have a similar sound. Could you do an analyse on why?
You are absolutely right! Using my musician's ear, I've been writing about this phenomenon on reddit periodically for years, having categorized different engine types by the musical interval they make, and of course the V10 and I5 are my favorite.
I prefer V12 - but that’s due to 1st and 2nd degree dynamic balancing too. Of course, the max displacement affects optimal no of cylinders too due to max efficient rpm…
FCK. I miss that sound so much. I only heard the V10 live once - it was during the season both V8's and V10's co-existed. The 2.4l high-revving V8 is still a sound to behold. BRING THEM BACK!
What struck me at Silverstone in 2012 was the gear changes, you never heard that on tv. It was like gunshots going off even in the campsite 20 min walk from Maggots.
When you take a v8 up to 10000 rpm, the note changes considerably after around 5000 rpm. Used to love the note my van made when I got into it and up to the 9000 mile pm redline it had. 5.0l v8 Holden engine with a lot of work done.
"V10 makes our brain happy" yes I can conform, this maks my happy
I put this under... well doh yeah :-)
Imma show this to my psychologist 😂
Maybe I'm over playing it but when I hear a V10 I get straight up Horney and my GF loves it for hours... sometimes she she randomly turns on F1 sounds and I know what she wants...
Can confirm as well, every now and then i put on Bozzy´s channel and listen to the Ferrari F1 V10 racing around Imola on my surround system on full blast and just let them go around my head. Legit makes me feel good! 👍
i literally said yes they do
Scott: Science says that V10s make our brains happy.
Me: Yes.
As a musician & sound designer (and Motorsport enthusiast) I’ve replicated several eras of F1 engines on synthesizers before. And you NAILED the explanation of the complex acoustic physics that happens to create that sound. It’s not just RPM, or displacement, or cylinder count, it’s the combined interaction of all three and the design of the exhaust. THANK YOU
Dude have you heard the top gear song when they played it on a renult F1!?!?!?
Dude… I came to comment nearly the same thing as you. Lifetime musician and audio engineer / system designer here… this video was unexpectedly AMAZING
@@MorganBrady a rare pleasure when 10 min TH-cam videos are well researched, go deep into a topic, yet explained in a digestible concise manner. Uncommon Tuesday morning W 🤣
I'm sure I remember seeing a while ago that Ferrari has its road cars exhaust notes set to a specific musical interval on purpose but I don't remember what it was off the top of my head.
I would have liked even more acoustic nerd stuff. not sure if the third is that important. I understand the crank rotates at a certain frequency and the piston fire at a other frequency but the sound you hear at a distance is 99% exhaust? I don't think you hear the crank shaft rotation.
I guess even if the harmonic is very less loud than the exhaust it can make a small difference in the texture of the sound.
it would have been interesting to give the intervals for 8 or 12 cylinders instead of just saying they don't have the right number of cylinders. asides from this harmonic detail most of what are said about V10 would apply to V12 (high rpm, high number of firing for each revolution, high pitch etc)
ALL The V10s Were The Pinnacle of F1...
Except for the H, ya.
If you compare engines OF THE SAME YEAR, the V12s were the best sounding, especially the Ferrari (the McLaren Honda V12 sounds totally different than the Ferrari and amazing too but in a different way). Personally, I think even the V8s OF THE SAME YEAR sounded better than the V10s. The V8s had a "thicker" roar, like a dragon or lion or something.
@@james-faulkner7:01
V12 was a far superior sound.
@@Gamer-sq8vc Yeah, I still recall when I travelled to Adelaide for the Grand Prix (I'm from Melbourne, so 'next-door' to the state of South Australia, of which Adelaide is the capital city) in '95 & it was the final F1 race for the Ferrari V12 engine, before all teams were limited to V10 engines thereafter...& it was absolutely incredible to hear ALL of those AMAZING internal combustion engines back then but you REALLY could hear the MASSIVE difference between the Ferrari V12 engine & all of the others from more than a kilometre away, especially during the practice & qualifying sessions, when the cars were more sparsely placed along the circuit & with larger gaps between each of them, you just knew when one of the scarlet red beauties was coming our way next...the incredible SCREAM of the Ferrari V12 is virtually impossible to explain to anyone who never got to experience & enjoy the ABSOLUTE GREATEST F1 ENGINES from their most amazing era, when they were revving up to 17,000 RPM & developing about 760 HP in qualifying trim, although they were obviously very thirsty on fuel...I am SO incredibly thankful that I was there to experience that very last outing for that Ferrari V12 engine at an F1 race, that's for sure!! And just look at the way that all of the mechanics for the current F1 teams flock from their pits to the circuits whenever there is a brief display of a (albeit detuned & never running flat-out, as they were back in 1995) V10 or V12-powered F1 car from the '90s for a few laps...I still remember the first time that I attended an F1 race in Adelaide in the late '80s (as my father was an official at all of the Adelaide F1 races but only the first two held in our hometown of Melbourne, because the Adelaide street circuit was so much more exciting & loud than was the Albert Park circuit, although the latter looked far more impressive on TV, for the fans watching it from all around the world) & while walking along Rundle Mall (which led you directly to the circuit & ended at the barriers for the setup there) with my mother, one of the F1 cars came out for a practice lap & MY MIND WAS BLOWN as soon as I heard it, & the hairs upon my arms & neck were suddenly standing to attention as my endorphins immediately went completely NUTS!! I had previously attended the 500cc & World Superbike races at Phillip Island & God only knows how many national touring car championship races at the Sandown circuit for many, many years by this stage but this first F1 experience was other-worldly...OK, I've already been MORE THAN verbose enough & no amount of additional rambling about the F1 engines from the '80s & '90s will do any more to explain to the unfortunate souls who missed out on them just how UTTERLY AMAZING they really were, sadly (for them, at least)!!
The sound of the V10 to me always felt like it was so much power that it’s just ripping the air apart to achieve that noise
Yeah, and as fast as their revs grew... They resonated with almost everything. (And was a very clean, monochromatic sound - just hearing them made one sure that they weren't wasting energy...) The V10s were like a great rock concert, vis. its energy and voice.
(But, the 787B was a symphony!)
i told my friends "the engine feels like its screaming at the top of its lungs, close to blowing the fuck up, all while trying to tear through the fucking car"
so aggressive
If F1 opted for the V10 with Synthetic Fuels or Hydrogen, in less than 10 seconds at high revving...people would be having eargasms.
RBR has said that, by grouping races together geographically, they've cut more emissions than switching back to V12's would generate. Assuming V10's generate lower emissions, I don't see a reason not to go back in the next few formulae.
Which makes a ton of sense@@shadowmancy9183
@@shadowmancy9183 really? that many people buying in to this co2 changes climate bs? people not bothered to actually check the science behind ridiculous and clearly untrue model
@@shadowmancy9183 I think emissions from the race cars shouldn't matter at all. They are wholly insignificant compared to the emissions F1 creates transporting, the cars, the equipment and the team all around the world. Multiple plane flights, tens of transport trucks and vans and tens of cars per team per race. And then you have all the other setup that follows the races around.
I'd love the return of V10s, perhaps with synthetic race fuels, but I can';t see it ever happening.
@@EE9Civic It's more about virtue signalling.
Petition to bring back V10s 👇
If I may add to “in race” refueling again.
Bla bla no petition started
Using Seb's synthetic fuel
With a sustainable fuel and safe refuelling would make F1 perfect
@@brian-te4xs😮🎉😮😂😮😂🎉😂😢😊
Oh I remember going to the Belgian GP with my dad back in the early zeroes and parking the car far from the circuit and hearing the V10's doing free practice on sunday morning. The engines screaming through the hills there just gave me goosebumps. It was truly breathtaking.
Early 2000s lol ... 🤦🏼♂️
11:43 please send this entire video and in particular this quote straight to the FIA. This is the best, most researched, and well explained thesis on the engine sound in F1 ever! Thanks so much 🙏
People who love today's current turbo F1 era have never felt the sound of a V10 cracking 20,000 rpm. Yes, feeling the sound.
20K rpm? You talk of the Cosworth 2.4L V8, right? 😅
They didn‘t hit 20k.
They got close to it tho
I'll never forget the first time i heard the sound of the V10 engine. We parked our car at the Nürburgring in 1999. The sundaymorning warm-up just started. I couldn't see the cars yet but man i heard the engine's screaming like crazy. From that moment i was in love ❤.
Ah yes, there's famously no possible way in the world to like two different things at the same time. Or to like something despite preferring another.
Here Monza 2001😎😎😎
As a musician I know exactly what a major third is and how it sounds🎸And as a long time F1 fan I know exactly how a V10 sounds But I never knew the connection between the two so thanks Scott for explaning this 👍
But a V10 also has this slightly hollow/howling banshee noise giving a slight minor/melancholic tone at the same time? Possibly some scooped mids and/or interaction of frequencies.
bro what are these emojis 💀💀
What are you nine years old? You must be 13 to be on YT.
@@GameOver-nm2us skull emojis are for old people now, get with the times gramps
@@sirmounted8499 alr lil bro whatever you say
You have to thank Ange, the developer behind Engine Simulator. It's magical, not only does it synthesize the sound, the software does all the fluid calculations to build the sound, and the result is fantastic. If you "build" the engine correctly you can get the exact sound of a Formula 1 V10
surprised im not seeing more people mentioning engine simulator in the comments of a video about the science of engine sounds..
I'm absolutely going to check this out. Thanks for the rec.
Every time I hear a V10 or a 100cc 2-strokes gokart, it gives me goosebumps automatically ! It is increadible how these sounds are pleasant to my ears
That "V8 burble" is a characteristic of crossplane cranks. Flatplane V8s sound different.
Yeah thought the info they listed for the V8 was very wrong.
Flat-plane V8 are just two I4s put together. Sound the same too.
Very good point, Lingenfelter make a flat-pane LS engine which has that howling note similar to flat-plane V10s
There's several things in this vid I find lacking, crossplane vs flatplane just one of them.
@@angry9901 why the fuck would you make a flat-plane V10 lol ! primary balance would be atrocious
My father used to have a 2007 M6, 6spd with a high reving 5.0L V10. It definently had a unique and amazing sound.
All F1 needs are gravel pits, wide-angle camera's without overly zooming in on the cars in corners, 100-150 kg lighter cars and - above all - V10s! Which should even be polarbear-friendly with their so much hyped biosustainable fuels :) Everyone wins!
Fuck no. Out dated tech. F1 is about pushing technology.
Pat Simmonds wanted 8 cylinder opposed piston 2 stroke engines for 2026.
@@v4skunk739 If only the engines sounded like they were pushing technology, and not sex toys
@@v4skunk739then get rid of the engine restrictions! Set max displacement and max power and let everyone build what they want! If you want to avoid 4 bangers limit the cylinder count to a minimum of 6.
@@slideways8022 There was nothing wrong with 4 pot turbos in the late 80's.
@@v4skunk739 They can push all they want...if efficiency alone is all they're after, with no regards towards creating an actual spectacle, then the cars will just get more and more boring and stay so forever. Efficiency. Is. Not. Fun. Except perhaps to a very select few engineering nerds.
This weird dichotomy between the egghead-science-stuff in the background and the RAW LOUD VICIOUS BEASTS that this science created was a huge part of what made F1 so interesting in the first place. Without that second aspect? Yawn. No emotion, no amazement, no awe. The cars are just rolling maths lessons now. There was some decent racing in the last years...but with such boring cars it just feels hollow somehow.
They try to manage with bigger, wider, more aggressive looking cars, but it all just falls flat to me. With the upcoming rules betting even more on electric drive...yeah. Snoozefest. An electric lawnmower does pretty much the same job as a petrol one...but boy is it dull.
I love how they got rid of V10's and V8's to appease manufacturers and for environmental reasons. But then added loads more races all over the world and none of the current manufacturers make a consumer available 1.6 V6 Turbo (Apart from the Merc hypercar produced in minimal numbers)
Yup, Formula 1 even trying to claim to be “eco friendly” is a load of 💩. Especially since, as you mentioned, they now jet around the world to 2 dozen races and the greatly increased need for tires. Tires made from petroleum 🤷♂️.
and even then, that merc hypercer is very rare and expensive, and will likely never see the asphalt of the road
It’s less about actual environmental impact of the F1 show and more about making the cars in F1 relevant to road cars.
Barely anyone makes a V10 any more for the road, so they can’t do the “we use F1 technology” in this road car unless there’s some sort of link.
@@CertifiedSlamboy You can go back to naturally aspirated engines but also with the electrical stuff that way, in terms of power unit, road car manufacturers can still say "we use futuristic F1 tech" and if you want to go even further, there are way other types of fuel / fuel combinations that can be used which are wayyy more sustainable. Just get rid of the turbos, that's all.
@@CertifiedSlamboy I struggle to see in what way current F1 cars are relevant to road cars other than the fact that they have a battery. Road cars will never use the kind of complicated hybrid system that's in F1 cars at the moment, and a 1.6L V6 is not exactly rocket science, you don't need an F1 program for that...
watching F1 live during the V10 era was ultimate
Agree
I always turned the tv up to the max, now I know why 😂😂
As a musician / audio engineer by trade, and a racer by hobby… the comparison between cylinder count and note interval and harmonies was FREAKING AWESOME.
Thanks Scott!
Part of the overall sound from a V10 era F1 car came from the gearbox. I was privileged to see a transmission testing device built on spec for a F1 team. In a demonstration of it's performance it was programed to run the gearbox through an actual lap of the Melbourne Albert Park track. Even with sound reducing insulation covering the gearbox the noise was deafening.
Sadly, the incredible sounds of those cars will never return to competition. Support the heritage and vintage race car events to make sure we have somewhere to hear that glorious howl again.
Full time professional musician here. Thank you so much for including some basic music theory in this video. You've confirmed a few things I've suspected for quite some time about V10s. The only other thing that you might consider when we talk about how much we love the sound of these engines is the exhaust plumbing itself. If the engines had no exhaust tubing, they'd sound like static, or possibly a machine gun firing. The tubing length and material creates points of resonance and stagnation along the duct work. The more different lengths of tube you have, the better your chances of resonation occurring as the engine goes through various rpm speeds, and therefore notes and overtones. V10s have a fair amount more piping than V8s, so you get the idea. If you've ever played a trumpet, you understand how different the sound of the mouthpieces buzzing is to when the mouthpiece is played into the brass tube that is the instrument. And speaking of brass, the alloys that the exhaust pipes are made of - typically titanium or chromium based - aren't terribly different from those used in musical instruments, in terms of their resonant and vibrational properties. So, taking all this into account, it becomes easy to see how a V10 is basically a mechanical version of a pipe organ, brass choir, or something not unlike the instruments we actually play on. To my point, if you haven't seen it before, here's a lovely version of the 2005 Renault F1 playing God Save The Queen. Thank you again for the video!
th-cam.com/video/XRXwWbo_mX0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=wQdAgj7SZlBq6bkr
Yep. I believe the exhaust design more than anything else decides how the engine will sound. Along with the firing intervals of course (even or uneven firing intervals). But just comparing engines with even firing intervals, you can make them sound pretty similar as long as you can reach the same amount of little explosions per minute (frequency).
Even though music theory says the V10 sounds better than a V12 i disagree. The V10 scream is for sure pleasing to the ear and but to me the V12 always has much more character and i like the lower pitch, and the increased piston amount is such a beautiful sound on downshifts.
Also on road cars when the revs aren’t a 19 000, a V12 sounds miles better to me than a V10 that it’s not even a comparison.
A good NA V12 will resonate your soul much more than a V10 ever can, even ar very low revs or at idle, and has this raw and deep lion/dragon roar type of sound to it that a V10 doesn’t have.
If you stand next to a Huracan V10 when it revs or accelerates, yeah the V10 scream is a great sound, but an Aventador V12 will make you feel much more, so to me ending the video with ”it’s music theory proven” and not mentioning the many benefits and sound characteristics of a V12 is ignorant.
Just listen the Lamborghini Essenza on youtube and tell me it would sound better if it had a V12. No way that would be ever the case.
3:40 Well, they used the V10 in the peugot 905 because group C rules almost forced teams to use formula one engines. Many see this as the rule that broke group C
My ringtone is the Renault Sport RS25 V10 and it certainly attracts attention.
Almost everyone loves RS25’s powerful yet harmonious roar 🦁
How did you get that?! Care to share?
@@jacobstewart7915 iPhone ringtone are .mp4r files and can be created using many free utilities.
You can use any audio sample that you like and it’s legal for personal use but can’t be distributed.
Just to clarify, the reason why typical V8 engines sound the way they do is because the cross-plane crankshaft forces a firing order that kind of goes like: left-right-left-right-left-left-right-right. That slight hiccup at the end with two subsequent cylinders firing on the same side of the V engine is what creates the burble. Supercars and race cars with V8s tend to use a flat plane crank, which allows you to have an even firing order, as in left-right-left-right-left-right-left-right. That makes a cleaner sound and, all else being equal, usually more power too. So is one better than the other? Depends what you're using it for. A flat plane V8 will usually be more powerful but, despite the uneven firing order, a cross-plane V8 will produce less vibration than a flat plane will.
Koenigsegg just made his plane flat. Seleen S7 and Ford GT and pantera have crossed cranks. AMG GT?
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt Obviously supercars using a flat plane is not a universal rule.
The V10 was because of the displacement limit and available fuel more than anything else. The speed of the flamefront of the burning fuel determines the optimum size of the cylinder and that determines the optimum number of cylinders to maximize the efficiency of each pot.
Exactly right. Bang on the money. Fuel can only be burned so quickly.
Wrong. It's mostly because they don't have turbos just like the glorious V8s and V12s. What you mentioned plays a part, sure, but the fact they don't have turbos is, by far, the biggest reason.
@@Spinelli__ When the number of cylinders was a variable teams could explore engine displacement was limited to half the displacement of what it was for non-turbo engines, the turbos also used different fuel. I mentioned displacement and fuel restrictions. The engine decisions F1 teams make are always based on the rules they work under ... when V10s became dominant the REASON they chose 10 cylinders is because of the fuel and the displacement they were allowed to use under the rules. Turbos were a non-factor in their choices because they were against the rules, just like using toluene in the fuel wasn't a factor because it was outlawed too. If there were no limits on fuel, displacement, and had supercharging available they would probably use V12s with turbos, methanol, and nitrous oxide injection and the pit stop refueling would come back.
Major 3rd = Happy car 😄
Minor 3rd = Sad car 😥
Busted 3rd = 5 speed Subaru 😅
i now wanna know how a perfect 5th or even tritone sounding engine sounds
@@mallusaih I want to hear an engine with pythagorean tuning!
@@mallusaih inline 3 or v6 can give you a 5th I believe. You'd not be able to make a "perfect" tritone as that's an irrational number. An 11-cylinder car could come close though with an 11:8 ratio
Dim 3rd = DNF
As he was talking about the sound of 20 F1 cars at the start reminded me of the years I went to Indy for the F1 GP. Sound reverberating off of the grandstands was amazing, if not borderline painful. You felt it all through your body. Only sat near the start/finish line one year…lol.
I was just talking about this. I’ll never forget it.
11:40 Its not just about the harmonics. I mix/engineer music/audio. Its also the frequency range of a V10, but also the fact that a Major 3rd is a Poly Rhythm.
Freq Range:
The main core of the sound is situated in a region that our ears are tuned to. Any V engine with 10 cylinders running at 18'000 rpm, is going to be producing a fundamental note, from RPM note , purely from the combustion cycle, of 1.5 Khz. which is right in the middle of the main frequency band human ears are tuned to (200Hz to about 6Khz). with 1 Khz to 5Khz being where all the detail and definition is in our hearing. A Babies cries is about 3 Khz as are Emergency vehicle Sirens. The 1 to 5 K range is what we hear the most. Its this region of audio that decides how "in your face" a musical mix is.
So to put this together, (and to add a further complexity at the end), Not only are harmonics producing a Maj 3rd relationship (which means there is a 1st 3rd and 5th note present), but they are doing it at a frequency range that our ears are particularly sensitive too, so like a distorted guitar amp, its very in your face, but the sound is strangely pleasing so that pleasing nature gets an element of overwhelming, it cannot be ignored, it demands your attention, you are naturally tuned to this freq range
Poly Rhythm:
What is a Major 3rd? well its actually a 3 over 4 poly rhythm from a pulse/frequency POV.
What is a 4 over 4 poly rhythm? basically a 3 beat cycle over a 4 beat cycle , so the so the cycle resets every 12 individual beats.
99.999% of popular music is based around mostly 4 beat cycles and if not, 3 beat cycles. A major 3rd contains both of the most common rhythmical structures within it
(this 3 over 4 is based on the pulse of each harmonic and the cycle of them repeating the same pattern )
I really have not articulated this well, but hopefully someone will read this and get something out of it
I found this amazing
Not only does it shriek but if seems really loud! It’s also that echo and reverb that comes along with it that sounds so glorious. Now put 15 of them out there.
That super loudness came from fuel cooling. Excess fuel was injected to cool the charger and carry heat from the pistons. The fuel then burns as it exits the exhaust.
A modern design injects directly leaving a layer of air over the piston for cooling. So they would lose the chest shaking feature (but go further between pit stops).
Bro combined my passions of music and motorsports into one video. This is my favourite video ever now.
I used to love hearing V12, V8's and v10's all singing together...
could pick cars out with eyes closed....
wish they just limited total fuel and let the engineers have some fun.
If you just limit the fuel, engineers install turbos. V12 was never competitive and sure isn’t in a modern carbon ground effect car.
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt Schumi said the 95 Ferrari F1 was good enough to win ths championship when he tested it when he joined Ferrari for the 96 season. Not to mention Prost's Ferrari in 1990. You need an F1 history lesson my friend...and, no, engineers won't install turbos if they're outlawed by the regulations.
@@Spinelli__ you wanted to limit just fuel. Limit law?? Porsche engineers went for the record on Nürburgring and went for turbo V4 hybrid.
Why are V12 not comparative? Are they inefficient?
@@somebodyelse3004 yes, Ferrari had to fuel up their cars more often. The main point is that when you don’t limit displacement, everybody uses V8 . Time as proven again and again, that those pack max displacement into the lightest block.
Generally, F1 cars are too small for V12. On war birds and bombers, V12 wins. I hate those US radial engine birds. The British used V12 in their bombers. Jay Lenno has a car with an air-cooled V12 tank engine. The 180° version is even more easy to cool using air. V12 engines always drive a gearbox. In a plane this could be use to slant the V12 to reduce the size of the air ducts. Small tubes which direct cooling air on the ring where the exhaust meets the head. Then reverse upward. I like chimneys.
a perfect description of why the old Audi S1 rallye cars sounded SO incredible. 2.1 litre turbo 5 cylinder, a wonderful rhythm
I fondly remember the clip of Hamilton trying to do an interview, while being hopelessly, hilariously distracted by Alonso's biblical V10-show out on the track...we know it, and the drivers feel it too. The F1 V10s were a piece of heaven. Nothing will ever top them.
The V12s are even better sounding. Just compare the v12s and V10s of the same year/season to eachother. There's tons of season footage around.
@@Spinelli__ No. No they are not. You people really need to stop throwing your V12 comments under every single V10 comment. It's wrong and just annoying.
@@mito-pb8qg Watch any session between 89 and 94 (and even 95) and compare the 12s and 10s to eachother in the same year/session. The V10s obviously sound incredible - so do the V8s but in a different way - but the V12s are on another level further.
Piston velocity is the reason for the rpm limit, not the mass or stress as thats just an engineering problem. The piston velocity limit is defined by the flame front velocity of the fuel used as the piston can't move faster than the flame front. This is why diesel rev slower as diesel has a slower flame front velocity.
So reducing the stroke allows for higher rpm for the same piston velocity, hence more pistons to achieve the same displacement gives shorter stroke thus allowing for more rpm and more flow rate (power).
Great points.
The "Why we're wired to love F1 V10s" is by far a better title than " Musical engineering lesson" 😂
Loved it! Also this whole video was a treat to watch at home with the 'good' headphones on, made my brain super happy 😃
Interesting video. I always thought it was just the nostalgia that fueled my V10 love, but good to know there's some science behind it. There's nothing that will beat that raw scream
if you think about it, exhaust noise is just a bunch a quick sneezes that are very fast and layered
I had the pleasure to watch live races in 1994, 2001, 2002 and 2003 and I miss that sound so much, you could literaly feel the sound in your chest, inside of you
Instant goosebumps. V10 is just the best!
That was an amazing vid. So much work went into that. Great job. I miss those V10s more than ever now
Mika hakkinen's 2000 mclaren v10 sound
Michael schumacher's 2004 ferrari v10 sound
Fernando alonso's 2005 renault v10 sound
Started watching F1 in 1981, Turbo era was under way but V8s and V12s were still the majority. Through the 80's the muffled V6 turbos dominated....I quit watching by 1989, but I knew that turbos were banned from 1989 on, so I's occasionally watch just to hear the un muffled normally aspirated engines in all their glory...I like the V12 best, I think it's more about the way it sings than any nostalgic reason, although the fist F1 race I watched start to finish was the 1981 Candian Grand Prix, won by a Matra V12.....the 1995 Canadian Grand Prix happened to be the last F1 race won by a V12..
6:07 bro used an alpine 💀
exactly. Thank GOD someone noticed that diss. That team in 2024 is essentially done, should be kicked out.
@@NAVJEETification xd
@@QuantumMag-u1l yeah. Sao Paulo made my words age like milk, at least for a weekend.
@@NAVJEETification I know, I was just joking 😁
Comparing the various engine "noises" to... musical intervals? Brilliant, as are you, Scott!
This opened my mind - and ears - as to how different engines sound. And I realized just how much - and why - I love these V-10 sounds.
You could do a timeline of F1 engine sounds. At least the greatest hits.Don't forget the Matra V12
This is a great video- but I have have one observation. I attended the 1991 Phoenix AZ F1 race. The best sounding engine was the Lamborghini V12. In person, it sounded like the voice of angels. Goosebumps, man. I have never heard another configuration that sounds better, except for the Group 44 Jaguar GTP IMSA from 1986. Mechanical music.
Lucky man, never got the opportunity to hear an F1 V12 in full attack. V12’s are a much better sound - IFKYK
I do agree that V10s sound magnificent, BUT: The Quattro inline 5, Georg Plasa's Judd V8 in his BMW 134 and the Matra V12 all immensely please my ears.
Edit: Forgot the awesome V12 in the Ferrari F412 T2.
As a musician, seeing this concept explained so well is nice. It gets really fun when you can pin a pitch to a certain engine and you can tell exactly what kind of engine and where its revving to based on sound alone.
Cars sounded and looked prettier back in the V10 days
Being an American, cross-plane V-8s sound so much better than the whine of a flat-plane engine IMO. I loved hearing the modified NASCAR at Le Mans last year, even if it was on video. Half-mile dirt oval racing is my cup of tea. Those thundering V-8s not only sound good, they feel good.
Video starts at 7:50
Thx you
I remember going to the Adelaide GP street circuit and hearing the V12 Ferrari screaming around the track over every other car, what a sound it was, in my opinion just slightly better than the V10.
V10s make music
I love v10 sound but i also like the current sound yes it doesnt have the same grunt as the v10 but i still like it it has a specific rumble that for me is very pleasing to listen and the probably the thing we should all blame is the car industry but that is just my opinion.
The best sound car ever is the Ferrari F2002!! Rubens said that the F2002 and F2004 engine could produce more than 1300hp at more than 21000rpm, but Ferrari didn't even need to use it all because of the advantage the car had over the other teams!
That F2002 was an absolute beast.
As dominant as the red bull from last year..
Good luck making an engine last a race at 21,000 rpm.
@@456MrPeople Back then, teams were allowed to eg. use one engine during qualification, and replace it afterwards. I believe the "normal" power during races was somewhere around 800 bhp, but that this could be increase significantly if the engine only had to last a couple laps...
Mate, thanks for existing😂 that engine sounds analogy with music chords was crazy
Love these more scientific breakdowns, Scott. There are a lot of 'historical' racing channels, but you seem to lean in to more of the science/mechanics of high performance cars. You saved it until the end (I know, I know, YT) but talking about harmonics was very interesting,
When are 'we' going upside-down?
Chrysler’s pushrod V10 sounds awful 🙉
Viper?
Because it's an odd-fire v10. On the contrary, the 2006 audi S8 sounds like heaven even below 2000, having a 90 degree V just like the viper BUT split crank pin to become even-fire
I'll be honest here. I use some early 90's Ferrari F1 sounds from a test day in Barcelona as a mean to calm me down when I can't sleep. Those V12's sound magestic.
V10s sound awesome.
Mazda 787b ….Hold my beer.
*Furai enters the chat*
@@VAXHeadroom❤️ 😭
@@zogzoogler still too soon.
I walked into me local Newsagent one Friday and they asked why I was so chirpy, when I said it was because of the V10's screaming around Albert Park, they just rolled their eyes.
They just sounded exciting and I went to that years Quali when Schumacher got pole.
Unforgettable.
I actually disagree with this. The constant major 3rd interval is grating to the ears after a few minutes, and it was extremely unsettling to the drivers in period (many of whom complained about the high speed harmonic vibrations the engines produced). The V12 is a perfect triad. It's balanced, not just mechanically, but musically, and it will forever be more pleasing to the ear, especially for long durations.
The V12s also sound awesome, but somewhat clinical and synthetic. They got that high-pitched howl, but what they lack the v10 rasp. That raspy high-pitched howl which is actually imperfect, is what makes the V10 sound like a living, breathing creature. Those imperfections in the sound give the feel, that it's running at the absolute limit of what is mechanically possible and that's why we love them so much.
I like the rumbling gurgle of the V8. V10 just sounds like a high pitched whining noises. For me its the difference between a tigers roar and a baby crying.
you are definitely in the minority
If you use that lodgic, V8 sounds like a guy is having the biggest toilet moment of his life.
@@henryhallam5270 LUL
I love the V10s but the 1978 Matra V12 still takes top spot in my list. Curious to see what a harmonic break down would reveal about where that engine lands on the musical scale. And an honorable mention to Toyota for having Yamaha tune the exhaust for their V10.
AND I JIZZED IN MY PANTZ 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I will never tire of listening to V10 F1 engines. Such a beautiful symphony of sound. Wish we could bring them back.
If you ever experience these cars track side you know it’s not just the sound you hear but also the sound you feel through your chest!
ive had the pleasure of hearing a v10 car hooning around the TT cirquit in assen and it was heavenly
Oh how I miss that sound . Todays F1 sounds like my vacuum cleaner .
A genuinely awesone video. Perfectly explained. I feel much smarter after watching this!
I'll never forget the sound of the McLaren MP4/15 at Monza in 2000. It stood out from the field. You could recognise it on approach, it was distinctly different. Sounded so much better, than all the rest. It was like a screaming cat... incredible!
The Ferrari ‘95 412 V12 is my favorite sound
had the luck to live a F1 race with V10 engine. First V10 Formula 1 engine was built by Alfa Romeo in 1986but never raced, even when they tried the Alfa Romeo 164 Procar with that V10. Thanks, now I know why I love V10s and of course they make me happy
I love the way music theory finds its way into our lives. Reminds me of how almost every airball chant at a basketball game is on the notes f and d.
This is "techtalk" on a whole other level m8.. this and the V10's makes me Gearhead smile! thank u
My favorite sounds from race cars were obviously the V-10 and 2.65L turbocharged V-8 IndyCars from the 90s.
i can remember going to an ALMS race where some of the cars were powered by the Judd v10... they were almost painful to listen to when standing next to the track, but what a beautiful sound.
12:00 So the sound of a V10 makes people just as happy as when I don't play the Violin. Thanks. I finally got it!
I was lucky enough to attend an F1 race during the V10 era. Absolutely magical sound. I walked into the stands and saw everyone had earplugs. I thought "I've been to a lot of concerts and races, I'll be fine". Nope! 😄 Loudest thing I've ever heard. Painful but I had a big stupid smile on my face every time they went by.
The teams used Keevil airfield to test straight line speed for the old Hock. The V10s could be heard from miles away, and if you know that sound it's unmistakable. People would turn up from miles away because they heard that amazing wail. I was lucky enough to live next to the airfield. Nobody objected to the impromptu audience and we watched many practice starts from literally 25 feet away by many teams. Williams had Monty as their test driver! I think he'd just won F3000 and went off to Chip Ganassi after that .
Ta.
Please take this additions: A: Notice, that on case of the Renault RS24 engine, the presentation reveals that the flow INTO the engine makes the difference, not the outflow. As we are used to their exact shape, all downpipe has the same length until the 5 to 1 collector. That could be made to have the same flow for almost any firing order. The intake is different, as blowing to a throw or sucking it is different. B: for more cylinders, the engine can rev higher mainly because the length of the connecting rod, height of the piston and radius of the crankshaft is smaller. The pressure pulling apart these components is like hydrostatic pressure, rho*g*h, but g is here omega^2*r, the ratio of r, the half stroke to h, the component height is the same for any number of cylinder for the given component, and omega is angular speed, appr. rpm/9.5. This pressure must be less than then the tensile/compressive strength (measured in same units as pressure) divided by a practically evolved safety factor. So Ten.Str.>Saf.Fact * rho * c * (r*omega)^2. Notice, that cross sections, and hence masses of components does influence this limit only indirectly via c. Also Notice, that the main limitation is set against r*omega, which is called mean piston speed, and is typically around 24m/s, aka 80 km/h (50 mph) in high performance race car. So the mean piston speed is limited by structural strength, so if you want to have the more firing for a given cylinder volume, you need to have shorter stroke. Hence, max rpm is inversely proportional to stroke. Torque is proportional with engine volume, so power is proportional to engine volume/bore, which is area of pistons, or N*stroke^2.
Nothing is static at 22 000 rpm . Also would be nice to list the Greek letters before any expressions. Has been a while since school
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt rho denotes density, usually measured in SI by kg/m^3 (Imp: lbs/inch^3). omega stands for angular speed, measured in radians/second. 1 radian is 57 degree. 6000 rev/minutes= 100 rev/sec=628.34 rad/s. [rad/sec] is used in engineering, because tangential speed and more importantly, centrifugal force can be calculated after converting rpm to rad/s. Remark: If it is accepted, that both mean piston speed and average pressure during the power cycle is limited by technology, then power will be proportional to bore area times cylinder count. By formula: P=v_mp * p_power_cycle * A_bore*N_cylinders. aka Power is mean piston speed times power cycle mean pressure times cross sectional area of one cylinder times number of cylinders.
Last line has typo, bore and stroke was exchanged: the correct version would be:... so power is proportional to engine volume divided by stroke, thus proportional to number of cylinders times bore squared.
@@ZPROHASZKA thank you very much. A bit surprised about myself now I could read straight through it.
Bruh, you took this video all around the world. Great job!
The musical analysis is great, best video of you for me.
What I love about the V10s and other older engines is not the sound itself, but the fact that you can hear the car slowing down and speeding up, changing gears, braking and throttle control... Now the engine sound is too monotone in lots of racing series
Having been a long term Le Manns 24 fan, i think my favourite sounding car over the last 35 years, is the Mazda 787B rotory. While very loud, it does have a similar sound. Could you do an analyse on why?
Musician and F1 fan here! Great explanation, super interesting video. Man do I miss V10s...
this made me fall in love with the sport. The sound was insane. So happy i started watching in 2005.
You are absolutely right! Using my musician's ear, I've been writing about this phenomenon on reddit periodically for years, having categorized different engine types by the musical interval they make, and of course the V10 and I5 are my favorite.
After all these years passing we still rave about these engines, they are still the fan favorite
I prefer V12 - but that’s due to 1st and 2nd degree dynamic balancing too. Of course, the max displacement affects optimal no of cylinders too due to max efficient rpm…
Been loving IWrocker’s reaction to F1 sounds and the sport in general…love this vid 🔥🔥
FCK. I miss that sound so much. I only heard the V10 live once - it was during the season both V8's and V10's co-existed. The 2.4l high-revving V8 is still a sound to behold.
BRING THEM BACK!
Have you heard the BRM v16 ??? My God that sounds epic ❤
Love the v10 era one of the best sounds of Motorsport ever
Scott another fantastic video mate. Great explanation too. Love this channel and it’s entertaining content 👌
Interestingly the “mp4/5” at the start is actually the mp4/4b, a modified mp4/4 to test the new v10 engine
What struck me at Silverstone in 2012 was the gear changes, you never heard that on tv. It was like gunshots going off even in the campsite 20 min walk from Maggots.
Great video! Love that you brought in the overtone series and music theory!
i wasnt ready for scott to know so much about the harmonic series well done bud
When you take a v8 up to 10000 rpm, the note changes considerably after around 5000 rpm.
Used to love the note my van made when I got into it and up to the 9000 mile pm redline it had. 5.0l v8 Holden engine with a lot of work done.