I've built 3 Ford small blocks! A 2v Cleveland 4V Cleveland and a 351 Windsor! The 4v was the fastest of the 3 running 11.40s and the 2v ran low 12s and a couple of times it broke a high 11! The Windsor ran 11.90s and broke a high 11.80!!! The Windsor had a Trick flow head where the Clevelands had factory heads with mild port jobs!!! Both were impressive!!!! The cars that these went into were a 73 Cougar xr7 with a 4sd transmission!!!
Since I watched your 'Headflow vs. Camshaft' explanation videos (pt1 and pt2) long long ago, I have YET to find another TH-cam channel that explains the basic relationship better (or even close to) the job that YOU do explaining it. While Engine Builders may have a 'magic' combination for certain builds, at least I can add my 2 cents now and argue a few points back that I couldn't before thanks to you. Now that you are more familiar with how TH-cam works, it would be worthwhile re-visiting those basic topics (along with others) for new viewers. Your info is priceless.
That’s a very good explanation for dual pattern cams without losing the attention of those who don’t know. It’s a useful crutch to overcome poor exhaust flow ratio. I had a friend years ago with a fully built 4v Cleveland in a 70 mach 1 and that thing pulled super hard. He couldn’t beat my 400 sbc, but after the 400 disintegrated a piston, his Cleveland was an even match for the 355 I put in. The exhaust note on his Cleveland was amazing. If I ever own a Ford, it will be a 70 Mach 1.
He is still a live. This is my favorite engine building/machine shop based channel! I wish we got more content from you. The information is some of the most informative and real
I’m not a gear-head, but I understand the basics. You’re videos are always very informative, and we all appreciate your attitude of not being a “know it all” . I can tell you speak from experience and learning from mistakes . Great to see you back on the air . I’d like to see you do a build, install and dyno . I know that takes lots of sponsors and money though .
hardly... they have CHI heads down there... edelbroke doesnt stand anywhere close to them 260 cfm vs 430... not even the same city, let alone same ballpark
so happy to see you back ! this summer I built the 385 Chevy stroker for my Corvette and used your videos as a guideline it turned out amazing and I couldn't be happier thank you so much for your content
i have a 408 windsor with 20 degree heads 10.25 compression .579 lift cam heads flow 274/218 @.550 chassis dynoed 400hp/425tq. The torque curve on these strokers is almost a straight line from 2500-5500. looking forward to your build.
What a great introduction to an interesting build, not many 'experts' can articulate correct component choices as you can. Great video, cheers and thanks.
Not a Ford guy Sean but I love this, can't wait to see it. Saw this done on another site and it's amazing. I guessed 425hp in my head so were on the same page. Thanks for sharing this build!
Like your explanation. It's always about how they breathe. I like to see how the old flat head guys tried to overcome the limits of the poor head designs. Thanks again for the good info.
Good to see you back and I'm excited to see this build. I have already been building mine but I'm using a CHI 3v 225 head with Forged crank, Forged flat top pistons and H beam rods at 10.5:1 I appreciate to see more and more clevor builds.
Yes, my favorite engine builder on YT. Younger guys are focused on regular content, older guys are focused on the subject at hand. I like both but you need to post more! And by more I mean even once every 2 months.
In 1975 Ford had a Granada Gatsby.... I drove (stole) the only one with a 351 Cleveland and it was in Canada with .... It had big yellow fog lights on bumper and an old big horn added and a two tone paint job, this was invented by a Canadian ford dealership in Toronto! It was adopted by Ford and more where made i cant say how many but not many and they where all 302 cars.... ,, IT was more less A 75 Granada two door with paint and trim with a few gagits for the horn and fog lights and my mom had FIRST ONE the prototype bought off show room floor :) ,, The dealer re=place the standerd 302 V8 and drop a 351 Cleveland :) in a Canadian car lol it was fun to steel as a teenager all 16 year old in 76 , and it had more then enuff power for me to handle,, gald to see you back man :)
Mate I’m a ‘greaser’ and thought I knew ‘stuff’, but listening to you - how much I don’t know. Don’t get taught this shit at trade school. Awesome mate, keep it up !!
Wow! I learned so much from this video! Thank you do much for explaining all of this! I have been looking for cams for my mustang and know I know more of what to look at to get them if I want to stay stock heads for now!
25:10 From what I have heard, mass produced performance pistons can be 4032 or 2618 alloy. 4032 may not survive as well under very extreme builds, but it allows good piston to wall clearance. 2618 is said to deform and return to shape so that it can be used on the most extreme race engines. Those pistons tend to need extra clearance and are noisy. Another thing your Mahle pistons have is a performance coated skirt. That coating does a great deal to reduce noise, although it is primarily used to reduce friction and wear in the engine. Over the past 25 years, performance coated pistons became more common in new cars. Even many of the low price cars have these piston coatings. 27:00 some DOHC engines have the opposite, where the intake cam has a longer duration than the exhaust cam.
This explains why my first car blew a piston.It was a 56 Chevy with a 58 283 power pack. It was a good little runner in 1966 and would quickly rev to 7000 rpm. Everything was great for the first few thousand miles but one night I came home and knew she wasn't running right.the next morning I checked the oil and discovered a milky mix about a foot up on the dipstick. Upon tear down I found a piston in two pieces with the cylinder wall ventilated by the piston pin.i guess at 16 you don't know about rev limitations.
i hope now you drive ford,as chev never made a decent engine.small block that is,allways cheaping out.mate wanted to fit a 360/340,to a jag,could not buy a kit to fit,here in aus,,so,he threw his brain out,bought an 010 block,from a truck,threw everything in the bin,except the block,then slunked into the chev speed shop,for heads,crank,pistons,ect..plus,a chev wont stand 6k,all day,like a ford c will.rubbish engines..i own a 340 r/t chall.thanks dodge..
@@hikdingle2210 yes,very..this happened back in 93..before chev woke up & started building decent motors,,single ports,canted valves,ect.plugs actually facing the correct angle to piston,.350,s are junk..
@@hikdingle2210 funny,im british,came here in 71,,had to change the way i spoke to be understood,,,ish,,so now,,i sound american,or irish after few beers..i do like chevs,gm,but they are lacking in certain things,,i own 4 f series,,i allways wanted a blazer,but id say theres 3 in aus..ford was the only co.,that stayed here.just..i nearly bought a corvette,till one day i saw one on a hoist in a garage,,that rear suspension,put me right off,,1843c leafs off a chuck wagon..all car co., have there probs.here we have a falcon 4.2 lt,turbo.very fast,.but,the rear end falls out,the rad drains into the trani,plus other stupid faults..its a pity you in 'merka,never had the nissan gu,4x4,or the super duty,4.2 tdi.,MWM,.german diesel tractor engine,,almost as good as the 7.3.no tech,nothing..i read the history of ford gm dodge,in a car mag..80,s id say..dodge was it..chev was the poor mans ride..every one here is stiking LS engines in everything.6k for the lot..i imported a 62 F100 4x4,,with a 352 FE,.guy must of had 2 trucks this was the better.but sold it,.$1500,susanville,ca..$2900 to import...i also imported a 73 chall.,340 r/t clone..got ripped,,but no rust & drives good.sublime.r/t interior.all the shit....happy toyota corona yr,,stay safe..
YOUR BLOWING MY MIND RIGHT NOW WITH THIS CFM/CAM LIFT TALK, GREAT CONTENT LEARNING ALLOT IN JUST FEW MIN..... I HAVE BEEN BUYING 600 LIFT CAMS FOR YEARS IT MAY BE TIME FOR ME TO DO A LITTLE MORE MATH AND BACK OFF THE CRAZY LIFT!! THANKS
I always worried about piston speed, but recently I heard a couple of big time engine builders discuss the subject on a podcast and they both said it was something they never even think about anymore.
Love an H beam rod, keeps a baring clamped round. Even with the insane clamp load available with todays rod bolts. And glad you mention spring pressure a tapered spring with a lower pressure would deffinitly make the joy last. oh ya titanium retainers. did i mention its good to see you again
I like this guy he's particular and very OCD about leveling out the engine between power and reliability, impressive I bet the local shop that I could pay, would not take this much time and love into my 72 351w as I am.
@@werewally3156 - Yeah, he was actually involved with the "push" for Cleveland heads. The Boss 302 was the first use of this design, and went mainstream with the 351 Cleveland, 351M, and 400 engines in quick succession. Too many (almost all of them) were of the open-chamber design. These reportedly flowed a little better, but were seriously low on compression ratio. Shelby didn't "get" the heads because there were other teams already working with Ford in the Trans-Am series where the engine was being used. In fact, several Shelby prototypes had the Boss engine installed. Old news.
@@alanhardman2447 I don't know where you got this information but it is wrong. Shelby ran Trans Am Boss 302's in 69 so what do you mean he couldn't "get" them? To use on the street cars? Shelby was done with Ford because the Shelby Mustangs had become too much of a luxury car than a race car and he didn't want that.
@@alanhardman2447 Actually the open chamber heads were better for emissions but flowed significantly less than the " four barrel" heads. The port size difference was major. The big port heads also had a higher operating RPM range. And as stated already, I have no idea where you got the info that Carroll Shelby couldn't get Cleveland heads. That simply is not true. Carroll Shelby had access to any parts he wanted from Ford and used them successfully in Trans Am racing. You were correct in stating that the vast majority of these heads were produced in the open chamber form.
@@matthewmoilanen787 here in aus,,we use 302c heads,small combustion chamber,gives about 12.1,stock..those big port heads,4v,not the carb,,were huge,only good after 90 mile hr,better with the 'smaller',351,2v heads,that chev guys dream of..why would you buy a chev or holden in the first place,no race history,no world wide wins,nothing.not even an american name,french,the insignia came from a bathroom,or room a chev suit,was staying in,in europe.!!.
Yay! Glad to see a new video from you. Absolutely the exact engine I would have hoped for for your new project. I want to build something similar fro my 70 Mustang fastback.
Thanks for this video! Have always wanted to build one of these engine combos! And the H.P. numbers given back then were underrated by all the manufacturers for insurance purposes. Looking forward to the rest of the videos!
Glad to see you back, your vids are great. I'm wondering if at some point (not that you don't have plenty to do, lol) you could do a vid on what it takes to swap a SB Ford into an I6, 67-70 Mustang. Appreciate the vid you did on the foxbody 5.0 into a classic, but a "nuts and bolts" vid on what it takes to covert an I6 would be awesome, looking to do this myself and I've seen responses ranging from "meh, easy" to "don't even think about it unless you want to spend a bajillion dollars!!!" and there aren't any good YT vids I've found on the process. Thumbs up for all you do!
I noticed at the 20:26 mark that you were a little dyslexic - you were calculating the percent of flow and dividing the exhaust flow of 165 cfm by the intake flow of 265 cfm but instead you entered 256 into the calculator on your phone. The answer you got for the percent of flow was 64.45. Using the the correct value of 265 instead of 256 you would have gotten 62.26. Then multiplying your percent of flow and your potential horsepower number of 552, you came up with 353 horsepower. Using the correct percent of flow you would have gotten 343.3 horsepower. On one hand, not a big deal - it's 10 horsepower. But...on the other hand, it's 10 horsepower! Not trying trying to be a pain in the butt - I love your channel and am subscribed. I have learned a ton by watching your videos!
About fucking time! I’ve watched all of your videos too many times on repeat. I need new material. I was legitimately thinking about calling your shop to check on you lol
This is going to be an interesting build to watch. One minor oopsie I noted at 18:28. Inches of water are not inches of mercury. I think your careful wording got a little behind what you were thinking. One atm Hg is 29.92 inches. One atm water is 10.3 meters. 28 inches of water is a fair bit of pull,but nowhere near 28/30 of an atmosphere of mercury. Your info is more sophisticated even than Smoky Yunicks Power Secrets,which is decades old. I wish an old friend was still alive to watch this. Cleveland heads on a Windsor block was doable back when,but "speed costs money,how fast do you want to go". Mucho expensive. Hope everything runs as pencilled in. And nothing breaks.
not in aus,i have 3..all f series have them,or late 70,s mustangs,pantera,s,ltd,s.ect.you can buy new in u.s.but,a windsor is better,just the heads are crap..strait valve train,no good.small ports..
Hey man, good video. Just wanted to make a few errata. 1) @20:27 where you were calculating exhaust, you hit 256 not 265 - so your per cylinder efficiency (and thus HP) goes down. 2) however, there are better ways for calculating the overall flow of the head (and thus potential output power). The SAE uses the "coefficient of discharge" which is their fancy way of saying "flow efficiency". These numbers factor in things like how low-lift efficiency is twice as important as high lift flow (since, as you mentioned dwell time), but also low-lift events happen twice as frequently as your high-lift event. CoD also factors in the non-linearity that exists inherent to the piston motion. (I.e, your crank is moving, more or less, in a circle. As the conrod (and piston) transpose into a linear motion, you retain the overall angular momentum of the crank, but it becomes effectively a (disorted) sinewave)). It's worth looking up since that's one of the key components most people forget to check out. Those Scat cranks are basically indestructable. I've seen the 9000 cast steel series throw rods and just blow out the block. I mic'd everything in a temperature controlled room with gloves on and a fresh cal'd set of 1 micron Mitutoyo's. The whole crank ran under 16 microns (0.7 thou-ish) runout, and each journal kept within 9 microns. David Vizard was running nitrous for a customer, decided to see how far he could push it on a Superflow. He got to 1200 HP (not sure how big of a shot he gave it). The side of the block blew out, and the crank bent, but it didn't break. Reminds me of the 383 (if you have a spare Magnum lying around, let me know what's fair and I'll take it off your hands)
Building a 1994-95 302 from a Mustang GT which I bought a set of GT 40 Heads from a 94-95 Cobra and had them somewhat ported and polished and I have Hydraulic Roller Jegs Cam 286 Duration with a .510 lift. Since the heads have a 1.7 Crane Roller rockers so I was told I would have a .530 lift. I will be running better springs. My question is this a good set up
I gave the same lecture to a dozen guys telling me they were putting a 3/4 cam and dual high rise on a stock Chevy 350 back in high school. The only way to do it right, is to do it right.
The "Clever" was the basis for the engines Ford ran in NASCAR before the FP9. The Windsor bottom end was nearly bulletproof stock - we're making 635hp (supercharged) at the wheels on a stock Windsor bottom end - stock rods, stock crank, stock block. I've pulled the main and rod bearings several times and there's no funny wear patterns and the rod bored still check round with a bore gauge. Forged pistons are the only upgrade.
Glad to see more videos and also thanks for the vortec intake gasket video... It helped my issue I will continue to use MS 98000T for future builds with vortec heads.
The flow test on your heads not Apples to Apples as your intake if they much denser charge then be spent exhaust and 70% is really all that's necessary according to superflow to determine your horsepower from your intake CFM
400hp naturally aspirated for a daily or weekend warrior is a fun/responsive engine. Honestly if I want more than that forced induction all day any day, particularly where I'm running at altitude.
True but keep in mind this is a vintage car we are not looking for all out power it's never going to see a drag strip the suspension is all stock in fact the car is pretty much bone stock and in very nice condition it's not a show car but it could be with some work the customer wants to drive this thing even do a road trip ounce in a while I realize there are ways to do this and make more power but this is what he wants I am a big fan AFR and Windsor heads the Windsor engine is one of the best small blocks there is and I am talking Ford.Chevy, Chrysler here I am a fan of the Chevy SB as well simply because it's cheap and reliable how ever in my humble opinion the Windsor is a better design for many reasons I won't get into now, so I hear you but in this case the customer wants a C and so a C he will get
harry walker the AFR heads are more efficient , even more so at low and medium rpm. Using the Cleveland heads is cooler and overall more expensive once you factor in pistons and manifolds. Its not money so whatever floats the owner’s boat.
I have a set of heads Speedmaster PCE281.1703.. Been looking for ANY flow data on these heads.. If you have any information, I'd love to hear from you.. Building a 351M/400 to a 408 with a 400 crank.. Trying to do my due diligence by investigating flow to very the pepper cam and springs I need for the power I want.. Any help would be greatly appreciated.. Great work on these engines.. Thanks so much for bringing us along!!!
Edelbrock heads for the 351C suck. TFS, CHI etc are good heads. And the Cleveland blocks are plenty strong. Rather put that top end on a 400, its cheaper and easier to put together than a clevor. Only reason I would use a Windsor block, is if I wanted a bore bigger than 4.06, but then again its cheaper to buy 434ci stroker kit for a 400, from Tim Meyer, than a aftermarket block for the Windsor.
I never said the C blocks were not strong I said the 351W is stronger that is a fact the 351M/400 blocks are much weaker than the C or the W and definitely not cheaper than a Windsor that is just nonsense I do agree the Trick Flow heads are one of the best heads for this but very pricey the M blocks don't hold up well to high HP or RPM they are no where near the strength of a Windsor block
@@Myvintageiron7512 Then you need to do some more research. The 351M/400 block, crank, and rods are good for 600HP AND the 400 is cheaper to build, no stroker kit, no modifying the heads, and no special intake (witch there is only one manifold for a 351Clevor, hope you like it.). Sorry we are just going to have to disagree. Stock for stock windsors are not stronger than the 335series blocks, they were and are all thinwall castings.
So basically this is a "Windsor" blocked 400... We had customized some Rods (so we could use better pistons - the now common KB were not available then.) and built many 400-4V engines (something Ford should have done) the 351M/400 seems to have been better designed than a 351 Cleveland... Though the heads/cams must be chosen to match RPM and power levels.
I've built 3 Ford small blocks! A 2v Cleveland 4V Cleveland and a 351 Windsor! The 4v was the fastest of the 3 running 11.40s and the 2v ran low 12s and a couple of times it broke a high 11! The Windsor ran 11.90s and broke a high 11.80!!! The Windsor had a Trick flow head where the Clevelands had factory heads with mild port jobs!!! Both were impressive!!!! The cars that these went into were a 73 Cougar xr7 with a 4sd transmission!!!
People that are building an engine could really benefit from these videos and save money in the process. Excellent information.
He's back, and not a moment too soon, the i-dotter, T-crosser and careful measurer- the anti-Uncle Tony.
I love Uncle Tony! But, that is so funny!
Come on. It's like Star Trek or Star Wars, Sunsets Or Sun Rises, Boobs or Bums. I'm gonna keep watching all of them.
@@jonmac155 Of course! Ford or GM, Ovaltine or Quik, beers or vodka, laughs or education, it's all good.
Thanks!! I am also a fan of Uncle Tony
@@Nicks66Service - "Beers or vodka"? Are you serious? What have you been drinking?
Since I watched your 'Headflow vs. Camshaft' explanation videos (pt1 and pt2) long long ago, I have YET to find another TH-cam channel that explains the basic relationship better (or even close to) the job that YOU do explaining it. While Engine Builders may have a 'magic' combination for certain builds, at least I can add my 2 cents now and argue a few points back that I couldn't before thanks to you. Now that you are more familiar with how TH-cam works, it would be worthwhile re-visiting those basic topics (along with others) for new viewers. Your info is priceless.
wow Thanks
That’s a very good explanation for dual pattern cams without losing the attention of those who don’t know. It’s a useful crutch to overcome poor exhaust flow ratio. I had a friend years ago with a fully built 4v Cleveland in a 70 mach 1 and that thing pulled super hard. He couldn’t beat my 400 sbc, but after the 400 disintegrated a piston, his Cleveland was an even match for the 355 I put in. The exhaust note on his Cleveland was amazing. If I ever own a Ford, it will be a 70 Mach 1.
What a wealth of information! I never understood the dual profile reasoning and it’s really very basic. Thank you sir.
He is still a live. This is my favorite engine building/machine shop based channel!
I wish we got more content from you. The information is some of the most informative and real
I’m not a gear-head, but I understand the basics. You’re videos are always very informative, and we all appreciate your attitude of not being a “know it all” . I can tell you speak from experience and learning from mistakes . Great to see you back on the air . I’d like to see you do a build, install and dyno . I know that takes lots of sponsors and money though .
Give me a lever long enough and I can move the world
I love the knowledge that you give us. Warren Johnson was the professor in the pro stock ranks. You sir should be known as the Street Professor.
Great to see you back! This vid will go over gangbusters in Australia,, a country literally full of Clevelands and Windsors,,
hardly... they have CHI heads down there... edelbroke doesnt stand anywhere close to them
260 cfm vs 430... not even the same city, let alone same ballpark
fuck that
YES YES YES, piston speed. Now this is something people don't often talk about!
so happy to see you back ! this summer I built the 385 Chevy stroker for my Corvette and used your videos as a guideline it turned out amazing and I couldn't be happier thank you so much for your content
AdvancedShadeTree 😃🤙Same for me.
i have a 408 windsor with 20 degree heads 10.25 compression .579 lift cam heads flow 274/218 @.550 chassis dynoed 400hp/425tq. The torque curve on these strokers is almost a straight line from 2500-5500. looking forward to your build.
What a great introduction to an interesting build, not many 'experts' can articulate correct component choices as you can. Great video, cheers and thanks.
Thanks
Not a Ford guy Sean but I love this, can't wait to see it. Saw this done on another site and it's amazing. I guessed 425hp in my head so were on the same page. Thanks for sharing this build!
Like your explanation. It's always about how they breathe.
I like to see how the old flat head guys tried to overcome the limits of the poor head designs.
Thanks again for the good info.
Good to see you back and I'm excited to see this build. I have already been building mine but I'm using a CHI 3v 225 head with Forged crank, Forged flat top pistons and H beam rods at 10.5:1 I appreciate to see more and more clevor builds.
Yes, my favorite engine builder on YT. Younger guys are focused on regular content, older guys are focused on the subject at hand. I like both but you need to post more! And by more I mean even once every 2 months.
Welcome back! Been missing your videos. I really appreciate all the detail you provide, and am looking forward to watching this build progress.
In 1975 Ford had a Granada Gatsby.... I drove (stole) the only one with a 351 Cleveland and it was in Canada with .... It had big yellow fog lights on bumper and an old big horn added and a two tone paint job, this was invented by a Canadian ford dealership in Toronto! It was adopted by Ford and more where made i cant say how many but not many and they where all 302 cars.... ,, IT was more less A 75 Granada two door with paint and trim with a few gagits for the horn and fog lights and my mom had FIRST ONE the prototype bought off show room floor :) ,, The dealer re=place the standerd 302 V8 and drop a 351 Cleveland :) in a Canadian car lol it was fun to steel as a teenager all 16 year old in 76 , and it had more then enuff power for me to handle,, gald to see you back man :)
Really glad to see you back. I was getting worried.
Mate I’m a ‘greaser’ and thought I knew ‘stuff’, but listening to you - how much I don’t know. Don’t get taught this shit at trade school. Awesome mate, keep it up !!
That was a lot of information in a short amount of time. Camshaft profiles are becoming less confusing. Thanks Iron!
Wow! I learned so much from this video! Thank you do much for explaining all of this! I have been looking for cams for my mustang and know I know more of what to look at to get them if I want to stay stock heads for now!
25:10 From what I have heard, mass produced performance pistons can be 4032 or 2618 alloy. 4032 may not survive as well under very extreme builds, but it allows good piston to wall clearance. 2618 is said to deform and return to shape so that it can be used on the most extreme race engines. Those pistons tend to need extra clearance and are noisy.
Another thing your Mahle pistons have is a performance coated skirt. That coating does a great deal to reduce noise, although it is primarily used to reduce friction and wear in the engine. Over the past 25 years, performance coated pistons became more common in new cars. Even many of the low price cars have these piston coatings.
27:00 some DOHC engines have the opposite, where the intake cam has a longer duration than the exhaust cam.
This explains why my first car blew a piston.It was a 56 Chevy with a 58 283 power pack. It was a good little runner in 1966 and would quickly rev to 7000 rpm. Everything was great for the first few thousand miles but one night I came home and knew she wasn't running right.the next morning I checked the oil and discovered a milky mix about a foot up on the dipstick. Upon tear down I found a piston in two pieces with the cylinder wall ventilated by the piston pin.i guess at 16 you don't know about rev limitations.
i hope now you drive ford,as chev never made a decent engine.small block that is,allways cheaping out.mate wanted to fit a 360/340,to a jag,could not buy a kit to fit,here in aus,,so,he threw his brain out,bought an 010 block,from a truck,threw everything in the bin,except the block,then slunked into the chev speed shop,for heads,crank,pistons,ect..plus,a chev wont stand 6k,all day,like a ford c will.rubbish engines..i own a 340 r/t chall.thanks dodge..
@@phantomwalker8251 Are you speaking English?
@@hikdingle2210 yes,very..this happened back in 93..before chev woke up & started building decent motors,,single ports,canted valves,ect.plugs actually facing the correct angle to piston,.350,s are junk..
@@phantomwalker8251 I agree I'm a ford man through and through. I was just joking about all your Aussie slang.
@@hikdingle2210 funny,im british,came here in 71,,had to change the way i spoke to be understood,,,ish,,so now,,i sound american,or irish after few beers..i do like chevs,gm,but they are lacking in certain things,,i own 4 f series,,i allways wanted a blazer,but id say theres 3 in aus..ford was the only co.,that stayed here.just..i nearly bought a corvette,till one day i saw one on a hoist in a garage,,that rear suspension,put me right off,,1843c leafs off a chuck wagon..all car co., have there probs.here we have a falcon 4.2 lt,turbo.very fast,.but,the rear end falls out,the rad drains into the trani,plus other stupid faults..its a pity you in 'merka,never had the nissan gu,4x4,or the super duty,4.2 tdi.,MWM,.german diesel tractor engine,,almost as good as the 7.3.no tech,nothing..i read the history of ford gm dodge,in a car mag..80,s id say..dodge was it..chev was the poor mans ride..every one here is stiking LS engines in everything.6k for the lot..i imported a 62 F100 4x4,,with a 352 FE,.guy must of had 2 trucks this was the better.but sold it,.$1500,susanville,ca..$2900 to import...i also imported a 73 chall.,340 r/t clone..got ripped,,but no rust & drives good.sublime.r/t interior.all the shit....happy toyota corona yr,,stay safe..
Thank you for all the engine tech in your videos. I'm trying my hands at building a Mopar 361 B block, and your info has helped me so much.
Sounds solid to me some of the best content you can get lovin it more please!!
The Pantera had some healthy 351C back in the day. I would have guessed it capable of 550 plus hp in a basic build very warm street form
head flow shows they would make over 500hp with right cam and intake.
Love the knowledge he puts out
YOUR BLOWING MY MIND RIGHT NOW WITH THIS CFM/CAM LIFT TALK, GREAT CONTENT LEARNING ALLOT IN JUST FEW MIN..... I HAVE BEEN BUYING 600 LIFT CAMS FOR YEARS IT MAY BE TIME FOR ME TO DO A LITTLE MORE MATH AND BACK OFF THE CRAZY LIFT!! THANKS
I always worried about piston speed, but recently I heard a couple of big time engine builders discuss the subject on a podcast and they both said it was something they never even think about anymore.
Fuck I love your videos. I come here because of the detail you go into. Never change
I love your videos. I hope you do more over the winter.
Thank you. This is the crap I've been asking, buying books for, watching videos for, thank you!
Really enjoy your videos. Your flathead videos were awesome. Thank you for do this.
man, the brain hirts - who knew - glad I listened to the end. now if I can only remember the new lessons
Glad to see you back. Giving out amazing information as always. Thanks
Thanks for throwing down some knowledge it helps when somebody like you shares thanks again
Love an H beam rod, keeps a baring clamped round. Even with the insane clamp load available with todays rod bolts. And glad you mention spring pressure a tapered spring with a lower pressure would deffinitly make the joy last. oh ya titanium retainers. did i mention its good to see you again
I like this guy he's particular and very OCD about leveling out the engine between power and reliability, impressive I bet the local shop that I could pay, would not take this much time and love into my 72 351w as I am.
Definitely, Cleveland heads were way ahead of their time. Carroll Shelby broke up with Ford because they wouldn't let him "have" them.
Whoa "have them"? I would think Shelby could have a set of Ford heads......
@@werewally3156 - Yeah, he was actually involved with the "push" for Cleveland heads. The Boss 302 was the first use of this design, and went mainstream with the 351 Cleveland, 351M, and 400 engines in quick succession. Too many (almost all of them) were of the open-chamber design. These reportedly flowed a little better, but were seriously low on compression ratio. Shelby didn't "get" the heads because there were other teams already working with Ford in the Trans-Am series where the engine was being used. In fact, several Shelby prototypes had the Boss engine installed. Old news.
@@alanhardman2447 I don't know where you got this information but it is wrong. Shelby ran Trans Am Boss 302's in 69 so what do you mean he couldn't "get" them? To use on the street cars? Shelby was done with Ford because the Shelby Mustangs had become too much of a luxury car than a race car and he didn't want that.
@@alanhardman2447 Actually the open chamber heads were better for emissions but flowed significantly less than the " four barrel" heads. The port size difference was major. The big port heads also had a higher operating RPM range. And as stated already, I have no idea where you got the info that Carroll Shelby couldn't get Cleveland heads. That simply is not true. Carroll Shelby had access to any parts he wanted from Ford and used them successfully in Trans Am racing. You were correct in stating that the vast majority of these heads were produced in the open chamber form.
@@matthewmoilanen787 here in aus,,we use 302c heads,small combustion chamber,gives about 12.1,stock..those big port heads,4v,not the carb,,were huge,only good after 90 mile hr,better with the 'smaller',351,2v heads,that chev guys dream of..why would you buy a chev or holden in the first place,no race history,no world wide wins,nothing.not even an american name,french,the insignia came from a bathroom,or room a chev suit,was staying in,in europe.!!.
Man I missed this channel. Good info here.
Yay! Glad to see a new video from you. Absolutely the exact engine I would have hoped for for your new project. I want to build something similar fro my 70 Mustang fastback.
Great video and engine methodology. Like to see this engine combo on a dyno for results
Thanks for this video! Have always wanted to build one of these engine combos! And the H.P. numbers given back then were underrated by all the manufacturers for insurance purposes. Looking forward to the rest of the videos!
Most excellent video bud and very well done, you deserve credit
Working on a Ford 400 Cleveland block using either Edelbrock or TrickFlow heads.
Never made a 400 Cleveland.
I’m very happy that you’re back with another video! I can certainly understand being too busy.
Glad to see you back, your vids are great. I'm wondering if at some point (not that you don't have plenty to do, lol) you could do a vid on what it takes to swap a SB Ford into an I6, 67-70 Mustang. Appreciate the vid you did on the foxbody 5.0 into a classic, but a "nuts and bolts" vid on what it takes to covert an I6 would be awesome, looking to do this myself and I've seen responses ranging from "meh, easy" to "don't even think about it unless you want to spend a bajillion dollars!!!" and there aren't any good YT vids I've found on the process. Thumbs up for all you do!
Great video, loads of learning for us punters. Good to see you back.
Really glad to see you back! will be down your way in January.
I noticed at the 20:26 mark that you were a little dyslexic - you were calculating the percent of flow and dividing the exhaust flow of 165 cfm by the intake flow of 265 cfm but instead you entered 256 into the calculator on your phone. The answer you got for the percent of flow was 64.45. Using the the correct value of 265 instead of 256 you would have gotten 62.26. Then multiplying your percent of flow and your potential horsepower number of 552, you came up with 353 horsepower. Using the correct percent of flow you would have gotten 343.3 horsepower. On one hand, not a big deal - it's 10 horsepower. But...on the other hand, it's 10 horsepower! Not trying trying to be a pain in the butt - I love your channel and am subscribed. I have learned a ton by watching your videos!
About fucking time! I’ve watched all of your videos too many times on repeat. I need new material. I was legitimately thinking about calling your shop to check on you lol
This is going to be an interesting build to watch. One minor oopsie I noted at 18:28. Inches of water are not inches of mercury. I think your careful wording got a little behind what you were thinking. One atm Hg is 29.92 inches. One atm water is 10.3 meters. 28 inches of water is a fair bit of pull,but nowhere near 28/30 of an atmosphere of mercury.
Your info is more sophisticated even than Smoky Yunicks Power Secrets,which is decades old.
I wish an old friend was still alive to watch this. Cleveland heads on a Windsor block was doable back when,but "speed costs money,how fast do you want to go". Mucho expensive.
Hope everything runs as pencilled in. And nothing breaks.
Thanks for breaking it it down was expecting more from the Cleveland heads can't wait to see and results.
Not to even mention the fact that 351 Cleveland blocks are extremely hard to come by
not in aus,i have 3..all f series have them,or late 70,s mustangs,pantera,s,ltd,s.ect.you can buy new in u.s.but,a windsor is better,just the heads are crap..strait valve train,no good.small ports..
lol, they made millions of them.
Sadly I Junked 100's of the Crappy 2bbl Clevelands... Nobody wanted them.
Hey man, good video. Just wanted to make a few errata. 1) @20:27 where you were calculating exhaust, you hit 256 not 265 - so your per cylinder efficiency (and thus HP) goes down. 2) however, there are better ways for calculating the overall flow of the head (and thus potential output power). The SAE uses the "coefficient of discharge" which is their fancy way of saying "flow efficiency". These numbers factor in things like how low-lift efficiency is twice as important as high lift flow (since, as you mentioned dwell time), but also low-lift events happen twice as frequently as your high-lift event. CoD also factors in the non-linearity that exists inherent to the piston motion. (I.e, your crank is moving, more or less, in a circle. As the conrod (and piston) transpose into a linear motion, you retain the overall angular momentum of the crank, but it becomes effectively a (disorted) sinewave)). It's worth looking up since that's one of the key components most people forget to check out.
Those Scat cranks are basically indestructable. I've seen the 9000 cast steel series throw rods and just blow out the block. I mic'd everything in a temperature controlled room with gloves on and a fresh cal'd set of 1 micron Mitutoyo's. The whole crank ran under 16 microns (0.7 thou-ish) runout, and each journal kept within 9 microns. David Vizard was running nitrous for a customer, decided to see how far he could push it on a Superflow. He got to 1200 HP (not sure how big of a shot he gave it). The side of the block blew out, and the crank bent, but it didn't break. Reminds me of the 383 (if you have a spare Magnum lying around, let me know what's fair and I'll take it off your hands)
Glad to see ya back. Looking forward to the build.
Building a 1994-95 302 from a Mustang GT which I bought a set of GT 40 Heads from a 94-95 Cobra and had them somewhat ported and polished and I have Hydraulic Roller Jegs Cam 286 Duration with a .510 lift. Since the heads have a 1.7 Crane Roller rockers so I was told I would have a .530 lift. I will be running better springs. My question is this a good set up
it should work fine
Awesome he's back and with clevor
Thank you for that cam explanation. It's going to really be a lot of help.
I gave the same lecture to a dozen guys telling me they were putting a 3/4 cam and dual high rise on a stock Chevy 350 back in high school. The only way to do it right, is to do it right.
The "Clever" was the basis for the engines Ford ran in NASCAR before the FP9.
The Windsor bottom end was nearly bulletproof stock - we're making 635hp (supercharged) at the wheels on a stock Windsor bottom end - stock rods, stock crank, stock block.
I've pulled the main and rod bearings several times and there's no funny wear patterns and the rod bored still check round with a bore gauge.
Forged pistons are the only upgrade.
Again. Luv your videos. Explaining piston speed and % of intake flow. Thank you
Glad you like them!
Glad to see more videos and also thanks for the vortec intake gasket video... It helped my issue I will continue to use MS 98000T for future builds with vortec heads.
The flow test on your heads not Apples to Apples as your intake if they much denser charge then be spent exhaust and 70% is really all that's necessary according to superflow to determine your horsepower from your intake CFM
I watched the how to pick a camshaft video first so I felt really smart.
I’m glad your back, love your videos 👌
400hp naturally aspirated for a daily or weekend warrior is a fun/responsive engine. Honestly if I want more than that forced induction all day any day, particularly where I'm running at altitude.
What about a hand port and polish on those heads? Port matching? Not to within an inch of its life but cleaning and smoothing all the transitions.
Hell yeah man! I was waiting for this only on your channel
Glad to see you back man
20:26 slight miscalculation when said one thing and fed the calculater another. Not a gross differance.
Yea I think I was off by 1 not earth shattering
@@Myvintageiron7512 256 vs 265
This is the man when I do my chevy 454 build I'm hitting you up and watching all your 454 builds again and again.
351 Boss clones are cool but for practically a set of Windsor AFRs will make life easier.
True but keep in mind this is a vintage car we are not looking for all out power it's never going to see a drag strip the suspension is all stock in fact the car is pretty much bone stock and in very nice condition it's not a show car but it could be with some work the customer wants to drive this thing even do a road trip ounce in a while I realize there are ways to do this and make more power but this is what he wants I am a big fan AFR and Windsor heads the Windsor engine is one of the best small blocks there is and I am talking Ford.Chevy, Chrysler here I am a fan of the Chevy SB as well simply because it's cheap and reliable how ever in my humble opinion the Windsor is a better design for many reasons I won't get into now, so I hear you but in this case the customer wants a C and so a C he will get
do the afr,s have canted valves,??.big difference.
harry walker the AFR heads are more efficient , even more so at low and medium rpm. Using the Cleveland heads is cooler and overall more expensive once you factor in pistons and manifolds. Its not money so whatever floats the owner’s boat.
Good to see you back!
THX
BOSS 351s were rated at 330hp but I believe they made near 380hp.
Yes it's true they were under rated back then also the factory Cleveland Heads had very poor exhaust flow porting work could really wake them up
please put a link for part 2
I have a set of heads Speedmaster PCE281.1703.. Been looking for ANY flow data on these heads.. If you have any information, I'd love to hear from you.. Building a 351M/400 to a 408 with a 400 crank.. Trying to do my due diligence by investigating flow to very the pepper cam and springs I need for the power I want.. Any help would be greatly appreciated..
Great work on these engines.. Thanks so much for bringing us along!!!
I asked a question in the last video. You answered it in this video.
A lot of info given thank you. Did you ever do more on the build
You're the man, keep on keeping on.
Air Flow Research is the best head, without cutting the pistols.
Great to see you back
I just love engine math!!!!!!
Edelbrock heads for the 351C suck. TFS, CHI etc are good heads. And the Cleveland blocks are plenty strong. Rather put that top end on a 400, its cheaper and easier to put together than a clevor. Only reason I would use a Windsor block, is if I wanted a bore bigger than 4.06, but then again its cheaper to buy 434ci stroker kit for a 400, from Tim Meyer, than a aftermarket block for the Windsor.
I never said the C blocks were not strong I said the 351W is stronger that is a fact the 351M/400 blocks are much weaker than the C or the W and definitely not cheaper than a Windsor that is just nonsense I do agree the Trick Flow heads are one of the best heads for this but very pricey the M blocks don't hold up well to high HP or RPM they are no where near the strength of a Windsor block
@@Myvintageiron7512 Then you need to do some more research. The 351M/400 block, crank, and rods are good for 600HP AND the 400 is cheaper to build, no stroker kit, no modifying the heads, and no special intake (witch there is only one manifold for a 351Clevor, hope you like it.). Sorry we are just going to have to disagree. Stock for stock windsors are not stronger than the 335series blocks, they were and are all thinwall castings.
@@Myvintageiron7512th-cam.com/video/qE5-O8A9Z28/w-d-xo.html
@@Myvintageiron7512th-cam.com/video/0BFbVIa0RRM/w-d-xo.html
@@Myvintageiron7512th-cam.com/video/qE5-O8A9Z28/w-d-xo.html, 500hp 400 fords are everywhere....
So basically this is a "Windsor" blocked 400... We had customized some Rods (so we could use better pistons - the now common KB were not available then.) and built many 400-4V engines (something Ford should have done) the 351M/400 seems to have been better designed than a 351 Cleveland... Though the heads/cams must be chosen to match RPM and power levels.
Between the heads and that 4" stroke I smell tire smoke :D.
Can't wait for the rest of this build !
Love the vid, not trying to nit pic but you said 265 and typed 256 on the calc. Not that it matters. Love your work man thank you!!!😀
any updates on this build could be vary knowligible for me and others for clevor builds
It's actually coming soon I only have two more builds on my list and this is one of them
I had been wondering about good questions to ask my local machinist.
The 351C M code was underrated at 300hp
I can't thumbs this up enough.
Glad your back man
Really looking forward to this build
they had many more than 285hp. underated.
Nice! Good to see you again.
Thank you for clearing up some things for me thank you it helped alot
Trying to watch your video on the next building of the 351 but can't view it for some reason.