Back in the early 80's I had the foresight to buy up alot of 289/sbf complete engines and some FE heads and intakes (ones a 428 Cobra Jet) also 351C 4V stuff and some Ford cast iron toploaders. I filled up a storage shed with the engine stuff then added late 60's Fairlane grills, bumpers, dashpads, Mustang and Cobra ii stuff, fenders, doors, and hoods went above. Ended up selling the place to my daughter but the sheds still there and its still full, I was in it this summer for the first time in decades. I didn't realize 289s are so valuable. As I remember theres one 289 K code in there. Nothing is for sale. Yet.
I’ll be doing a lot more content on this and a few other engines I’ve done in the upcoming couple of months, if you’d like to chat about your Cougar T/A tribute, shoot me an email TheGT350Garage@gmail.com because I’m very familiar with those cars, my first car having been a ‘67 XR-7 way back when that I did quite a lot with, and I can put you on to some great resources!
Thank-you so much for this video! I am building a 331 with a 1968 block and had never heard of the different steam-hole locations! I checked my AFR heads and just like you said, the steam-holes are off-set. The Fel-pro head-gaskets have both locations but as you noted, no way to get across without a channel. You saved me from from my ignorance and have one more new subscriber😃
Good to have you back! Great video! I did a 1990 302 for my 77 F100 pickup, I used the Trickflow 170 heads and a Lunati Voodoo roller, lots of fun! Can't wait to see your set up! Sitll working on my 496 Mopar too, Icon released 11.0 pistons so I bought those for my current elevation of 3400 ft, now just decided if I want to run hydraulic roller or solid flat tappet cam
Your 302 has potential. I’ve done tons of “5.0L” builds using essentially a stock short block that produce 400-450hp from out of the box TFS Twisted Wedge 170 heads. People don’t give that head the credit it’s due because it’s “old” now. It’s still probably the best performing head horsepower per dollar under $1500 for a pair.
Absolutely, you guarantee no burrs on the deck, and the cleaning process will remove any metal particles. My plans have changed a few times and three years ago when the machine work was supposed to begin, I was still planning to run early factory style iron heads.
glad to see you back so you had to buy a new house with a bigger garage.. thats what i need. i got trhe 351w running good . i havent installed the egr setup yet.
I have people say I don't get it I have no interest in that stuff and personally I love putting together engines especially all fresh parts, put on some chill tunes zone in just go step by step so it's relaxing work and just pick away at it and I tell em the feeling of having a pile of parts and building an engine out of it is so gratifying from the start up to when you take it out and do a high rpm smoker. Assembling a stock engine is still fun but when you make modifications like head work, pick the cam pick the pistons cam you choose deck height whatever that's the real achievement and at that point you are an engine builder not an engine assembler. Not everyone is confident mixing and matching parts but it's all stuff you learn from research another fun aspect but even if you do stock rebuilds that's an accomplishment worth pointing out even that takes some skill and knowledge. I love going custom tho that's the funniest. The first fire up That's a high you can't get from drugs.
If the cylinder centerlines are aligned offset by 0.060 toward the direction of rotation, will there be a measurable increase in torque due to the alignment of the power stroke of the piston, connecting rod, and crankshaft?
What you’re talking about doing is usually accomplished with an offset wrist pin in the piston. The real reason is more about the thrust forces on the cylinder wall than the angle of force the piston applies to the crankshaft through the connecting rod. Moving the bores would effectively change the relationship to the cam, require moving the head to align over the piston, and simply is not something I’d ever recommend attempting.
@@TheGT350Garage On another TH-cam channel, there is a bottom-up view of something similar to a 4-inch bore with a typical cylinder head installed. Inline valves, 1.9 or 2 inches intake, and 1.6 inches exhaust. With no experience to judge, there appeared to be little room. I would be skittish around the offset center of pressure with offset wrist pins until I could see the cyclical stresses and pressures between peak torque and peak rpm. Where can I learn more about offset wrist pins?
@@TheGT350Garage The offset in Ford's flathead and new 3cyl makes me curious but I'm too ignorant to know better. I would also need to learn about the cam specs and setup changes.
Offset wrist pins are VERY common. Even Ford used them in production 302 engines. That’s why a lot of pistons have an arrow denoting “Front” on the pistons. Do a little google search and you’ll see. The new Toyota Dynamic Force engines all use offset bores (relative to the crank centerline) as you ask about, it generates the same end result.
Mexican blocks have “HECHO EN MEXICO” cast in the valley. Windsor blocks have a W and Cleveland Foundary is CF. More to it than that but those are the dead giveaways.
Im interested in knowing how many main cap or crank issues you have had or heard of out of a high horsepower high reving 2 bolt main 302/351w with or without a main girdle ??? Ive took alot of motors apart but I’ve never seen any catastrophic failure due to main failure of any sort . Have you ???
This is actually going to be the topic of an upcoming video. I’ll tease you with this to think about; NHRA 289 225hp spec Super Stock engines regularly spin over 8000rpm in production blocks using production cranks, rods and even pistons, per super stock rules. They are more prone to valvetrain issues than short block issues. In the opposite end of the spectrum we have 5.0L blocks failing but not because the block is somehow inferior to a 289, it’s the application and the way the blocks are being used. I haven’t personally failed a block, but I’ve had customers fail blocks in engines I built by going beyond the design limitations of the build.
@ yeah but was the failed blocks due to main cap issues??? Thats the question. Btw im an engine builder too i don’t come on here to give you trouble i come in here for educated conversation about the sbf engine .. because i really enjoy it .
@ the main cap itself isn’t the issue, I’ve used standard blocks, HiPo 289s, Mexican 302s, 5.0L blocks and the B50 Sportsman blocks, I’ve never had the main cap itself fail on any of those blocks, it’s always the main web of the block that fails, and if you look at enough failures you’ll see that the blocks fail in very similar ways. There are some differences in the failure threshold with bolts vs studs because of the difference in the application of force, same with girdles or straps, but in the end, blocks fail in the same way across the range of failures, and the failures have two common causes.
The information given gives great stuff, though I would have done slightly more differently. The plug into., great! I would blue print the oil filter area, detail the oil return spots, remove casting flashing, studs, windage tray, stud girdle, and road course oil pan with slosh gates. I would paint the inside of the block. The outside gets iron primer and engine black after the washer. There was a guy that made a plate to pin in and bolt into the lifter valley to prevent block splitting, would have to work with lifter spider. Can't remember much else, clean all threads in blind holes with a bottoming tap. Some of the threads on Boss windage bolts, could order later bolts with the tapped hole on top. Why not use the Trans Am rod with the 331 piston? Better rod to stroke ratio. Old school builder.
So, the valley girdle is actually of no use. If you watched the entire video I explained why I didn’t stud or girdle. It is getting a Moroso baffled/gated 9qt pan with a windage tray. Detailing the valley isn’t super critical on a mostly street engine, neither is painting the interior of the engine. I’ll be using a light acid solution before applying a red oxide primer and painting Ford Corporate Blue. Using an H-Beam and the stock Rod:Stroke ratio is right at 1.8:1 so there isn’t a need to go higher. Come back for the follow up videos and you’ll actually see me chase all the threads and cover a lot of the items you’ve mentioned.
@kensheffer9539 appreciate the feedback, I’m working with a new microphone and it’s taking a little getting used to and trying to figure out best placement.
I doubt it. It’s been out of the car for 50+ years. I have a standard bore C6AE-E casting with a fairly close date code, it’s about 75-90 days too early for the car, but that’s just waiting in the wings if I decide to return the car to “stock”.
I am not an expert in metallurgy, I just want to tell you about my experience with blocks and heads that were manufactured in Mexico. Ok I'm going to be somewhat rustic, here in Mexico when I started building engines due to some failures in the head gaskets I began to question how good the head and block resurfacing job they did in the machine chop was, so it occurred to me to use a glass 1 centimeter thick with two sandpapers glued with a thin layer of spray glue. Holding the glass with a double suction cup I began to carve the surface of the block in different patterns. ok I realized 2 things, the first that the work of the machine chop was very bad in this case, and the second that after applying that in different blocks and heads made in Mexico and made in the USA I can tell you that the amount of manual work and the largest amount of sandpaper that I have to use in a block made in Mexico when purchasing a block made in the USA... I don't know what it contains but the Mexican block is harder
Hardness isn’t necessarily a material difference, it can also be from heat treating the parts or the way the parts are cooled during the manufacturing process.
I use ARP studs and a Canton road race pan that has windage tray buit in to it. Race Tech dome pistons RPM lite weight I beam rods, 289 crank indexed by Ken's snd Leslie's back in the 80's
Nice setup, like I said in the video, I had to make specific choices due to circumstances that were out of my control. If I was to do it again, I would use studs, but that change has to be decided before it’s line honed. I’m using the big 9qt Moroso road race pan and matching windage tray, also a really nice setup, I’ve used them before with good results. Canton, Aviad, and Moroso are all good quality pans, I haven’t had the best experiences with other manufactures.
I have a boss 302 windage tray and the main bolts had it on the 289 I drag raced in the 80's . Bought it along with a boss 302'balancer from the local Ford dealer. I also run the Mexican black have a 1968 that needs a sleeve. Then the one I'm running now is a 1972 Mexican block. Like you channel love the 289
You mention restricting oil if you are running mechanical lifters, I cannot find any information on that. Can you elaborate that as I will be running a solid lifter flat tappet cam. Also regarding the steam holes, I just called AFR and they stated nothing needs to be done on an early block when using their heads, so since this is my first time using aftermarket heads I need to figure this out. You did not state any specs on the hole, I would assume matching the other hole, but is it all the way into the water jacket, i.e. drill completely through?
Indeed, AFR does not address the steam holes, they should, but because most of their heads are used on later model blocks or race blocks with the newer steam hole location, it seems to be something they don’t consider important. You need to drill the holes the same size as the hole in the head gasket (about 3/16”) and you drill through the deck into the coolant passages around the cylinder. It’s an easy enough process, takes about half an hour, and does not affect the integrity of the engine block in any way. Do not drill the head. It’s not necessary to restrict oil on a SBF unless you suspect too much oil flow to the valvetrain. I don’t restrict the passages unless I’m running a maximum effort engine. Oil to the lifters and rockers is important to protect the lifters, pushrods, and rockers, it also cools the valve springs.
@@TheGT350Garage I did reinforce the fact that I amusing a 289 which is an older design compared to a modern 302, but they insisted nothing needs to be done with a steam hole. I'll add it as it is simple, might have to do it like you after machining as I don't have the heads yet and need to get the block into the machine shop before the busy winter work starts to pile up. Thanks for clarifying the oil restrictor.
@robertpanter6198 all you need is a head gasket to use as a template. Mark the steam hole with a sharpie, center punch the hole, drill with a sharp 3/16” drill bit. Go slow-ish, it takes about 3-4 minutes per hole, the deck is about 7/16” thick where you’re drilling. I don’t doubt that they said it’s not needed, but if that’s the case, why do they put the coolant passages in the head for a late model block. Makes no sense. I’ve drilled dozens of blocks, and I don’t have heating issues, so I keep doing what works.
@@TheGT350Garage Well, drilling steam holes was a fail for me. The second hole on the passenger side number 3 cylinder the drill bit wandered a bit high and even with a good drill at the right speed, quality bit, cutting oil and blowing out the hole as I went, the cast iron blew out into the lifter valley. What did I learn here? The tolerance is fairly close on half of the steam holes, which was not emphasized and drill bits don't make great precision holes. So is this an easy home project, I say no, leave it to the machine shop. Now have to see if the machine shop can weld up the hole in the lifter valley and bore (not drill) the steam holes with a milling machine to ensure precision. I can't add pictures here or I would. I hope I did not just ruin this block.
@robertpanter6198 the holes don’t have to be precise, the holes in a late model block are huge triangles 3/4” x 3/4” on the right angle, you’re drilling a 3/16” hole that mostly lines up. You’re going to be fine. You could use a 3/8” bit and it wouldn’t matter because the hole in the gasket would restrict the passage anyway. It doesn’t need to be nearly as precise as you’re thinking. Your engine will thank you and run cooler for it in the long term. Masking the engine and using magnets was the easiest way to manage the bits of iron, putting tape on the magnets or wrapping them in paper or putting them in a sandwich bag will keep the chips reigned in. You’ll be in good shape, don’t worry about a slight misalignment on the holes.
Ive been trying something new with great success .. before i paint an engine i use a torch and heat the block up .. while doing so i can see the moisture drying up . When im done doing that i paint it .. the block might be 85 degrease but its dry . One old timer told me thats the same thing is curing a cast iron skillet . He said when its warm the pourus metal opens up and releases the moisture and when i paint it it draws the paint down in the porus of the block . Idk how much of it is true but i do know my paint is lasting longer and staying shinier n prettier since i started heating the block up .
When I was learning the trade, I was taught to use a zinc phosphate primer on bare cast iron to promote adhesion and we used a custom mixed agricultural paint in the color we needed for the engine we were working on. The problem is, as good as those materials were, they had too many VOCs (and other fun stuffs) and are no longer produced.
Jesel dry timing belt,, steel crank,,, steel main caps with a girdle, H beam rods,, coated Pistons top and sides,, painted internal block,, close to 14 to 1 compression,, let's make some HP...
You buy, I’ll try. 🤣 For now, I’m at 12.2:1 with Wiseco pistons, H-beams, stock crank, Mexican block. The next engine will get a steel crank, coated pistons with a narrower ring pack, and a 4.125” bore Dart block in 3-5 years
Just to add if you take your torch and heat the block up you can burn all the oil out of the pores of the block and this is done after you wash the block and get it all prepared you will bring all the oil out of the pores of the block that your detergent and washing did not get and the paint will stick and last much longer you don't have to heat it up to where it's read nothing like that as you put the torch on to the block you will see the heat spread and this just pulls the oil out
It’s a 9-keyway crank sprocket, perfectly suited to what I need. I do not like the “adjustable” upper sprockets for two reasons, I’ve seen the Torrington thrust bearings fail and trash an engine, and I don’t trust the clamping load of the fasteners in the adjustable uppers, I would want a better system of locking the timing pieces together.
Absolutely, but if you were paying attention, the block has already been line honed with bolts and I don’t want to duplicate the process a second time for the minuscule benefit studs would offer.
They are great pistons, but I would have needed to custom order them to get where I’m going with my build, but with the TFS/Wiseco pistons I’m using, they are an off the shelf unit with 1/16”-1/1/6”-3/16” and 1/16” is 1.58mm so it’s a fairly narrow ring, I’m going to run a ZGS 2nd ring and low tension oil ring so it’s a pretty effective combination.
No, I’m not building this for drag racing, it’s an open track road race setup, and I will also do some autocross in addition to a bit of street use. I get bored drag racing when the fun ends after a few seconds, and they don’t like it when you take the turn off at speed 😉.
Actually the brushes are $400 for my cylinder hone from sunnen, also you gotta be careful how many strokes you do and pressure because it actually damage the surface finish. I have tested it with my profometer
Actually, the brushes from Goodson are what I use, not Sunnen, they run right at $75 for the UF-450 Ultrafinish Plateau Soft Hones, and we are not looking to change the cylinder size, just take that peak off the top.
iv put studs in a 350 chevy block with no distortion. I Have a dial bore gauge to check it , so i dont have to go by...They say stuff. Check with a gauge before passing on fake news, please. I worked in a machine shop many years, and they would tell customers that so they could pay for their line hone machine ! Grrumpy Jenkins said machist can mess it up worse than factory, i found that to be absolutely true from first hand experiance !
This is bad advice for a maximum effort engine. I put studs in a 289; dial bore gauge checked good before and after, but the crank didn’t turn as nice after. We barely kissed it with the align hone, not even taking enough to measure, but the crank went back in and spun real nice afterwards. I’m sure if I had taken the time to measure in about 100 places I could have probably measured the distortion, but it wasn’t exactly obvious.
@PeggyParrow a dial bore gauge will only tell you part of the story with the stud replacement. Because the load distribution changes with studs, the distortion in the main bores can be so slight the dial bore gauge can not detect it. The variation in the bore may be .00025” (which most machinists will write off because their dial bore gauges are t that accurate, it shows as little more than a needles width between marks on even the best Sunnen and Starrett dial bore gauges. The distortion does not occur in the same plane as adjacent bores and you end up with a stack of tolerances that are several degrees off of the next in the line bore. It only shows up later as edge wear in the bearings.
This sounds great in theory but you’ll need two half-sets of pistons to make a full set for the Ford head. Ford uses a .912 wrist pin and Chevy uses a .927 also, the 289 and 302 both use a 1.600CD, so putting the Chevy piston in would require using an 8.150” deck height (cutting the deck .056” or more is aggressive). Instead, I would simply recommend buying the correct pistons for the cylinder head being used, with the block, crank and rod combination you desire.
@tomhamilton9140 I used to use Indian Head Shellac but after seeing a block crack because a plug wouldn’t push out, I stopped. Especially now that I’m in a colder climate, I’d rather have a little extra protection from a freeze.
I considered that, but it was the height of Covidflation, and they were about $4000 delivered. They are also nearly 80lbs heavier and I don’t want the weight on the nose of the car. And sleeving and line honing the block was on the machine shop’s dime because they screwed up. It’s normally about $100 per cylinder, so with all eight and a line hone it’s about $1000 to save an otherwise good block. If it were a serial numbers matching HiPo block, I wouldn’t hesitate to sleeve all eight to save a block.
Most actually. The only ones that didn’t were service blocks bought through the parts departments and blocks that went to Shelby to be installed in 289 Cobras. If a HiPo went in a car, it got the VIN stamped on the passenger side skirt above the oil pan rail just behind the timing cover and in front of the motor mount.
Because I already had the pistons and they are not available in standard 4.000 or 4.060 except as a custom order. They are really nice Wisecos from TFS with a small dome to offset the valve reliefs, and they are a hand detailed piston, unusually nice for an off the shelf piston actually.
Sorry but I feel the need to comment on a few major issues. When the block was mistakenly bored to .060 was it the sonic tested to see if it could be safely run for your usage at that? You said none of the holes for the sleeves broke through into water so all you have affectivity done is significantly reduced the blocks integrity. I'll explain. It's a parent bore block and the cylinders help to hold the block together, particularly the inside to the outside. You have removed most of all the original cylinders. The real problem comes when the sleeves go in with interference. If done correctly two cylinders that aren't next to each other are bored so the sleeves have interference and then are pressed in. The two other cylinders that aren't next to each other are bored so the sleeves have interference. The issue is now there is so much less parent block left and you have set each bank up with two lots of tension in it. You are also going to get it so much hotter by making more HP and more cycles. The iron your using is also not new and has been through numerous heating cooling cycles not to mention potential irregular metal loss from the outside of the cylinders from rust. If the block was going to be used for a grandpa spec application you MAY get away with it but you are talking 480hp. We have tried sleeving all cylinders for Hi-HP endurance applications and they end up leaking water into the crank case and they have cracked on the deck between the cylinders. On customers jobs I have to err on the side of caution. Max sleeves per bank is 2 x and they can't be next to each other. I'm also sorry to sound overly critical but Ultra grey on threads is not industry accepted. A non hardening thread sealer on both male and female threads. Cam plugs are normally installed with a liquid sealer in the hole and go just past the chamfer. People who watch some of this material don't often know any better than what you might be saying. Good on you for trying to make helpful content. Regards Scott
I appreciate the comments. My machinist has cut the cylinders and sleeved ordinary 2-bolt blocks with all eight sleeves for over 45 years. I’ve run his machine work for 25+ years, and I haven’t had failures related to his work. We do things that many say can’t be done with success. And like it or not the pipe plugs won’t leak with the UG on them, and the core plugs won’t leaks installed dry. I’ve seen core plugs stay glued in and blocks freeze and crack because the plug would not budge, which is worse if you ask me. This isn’t a customer job, and no one is asking you as a machinist to compromise your personal ethics or do anything you’re uncomfortable with.
@@TheGT350GarageIt's what works for You ! I built a 71 Mopar 340 that had 3 cylinders that were cracked & I had a Machine shop in Ft. Worth TX. Bore & sleeve all 8 cylinders and bored them to 4.080 & installed a set of TRW power forged pistons and I was told that it would never hold up but I ended up putting over 100K miles on it and never had any problems with it. P/S the Machinist left a small step at the bottom of all the cylinders and installed the sleeves with some type of sealant on them never had any coolant lose or coolant in the crankcase .
@ferdinandcuevas8457 Green Loc-Tite is commonly used during sleeve installs, they won’t move. Heat transfer is fine, and durability has never been an issue. Thanks for the comments!
Back in the early 80's I had the foresight to buy up alot of 289/sbf complete engines and some FE heads and intakes (ones a 428 Cobra Jet) also 351C 4V stuff and some Ford cast iron toploaders. I filled up a storage shed with the engine stuff then added late 60's Fairlane grills, bumpers, dashpads, Mustang and Cobra ii stuff, fenders, doors, and hoods went above. Ended up selling the place to my daughter but the sheds still there and its still full, I was in it this summer for the first time in decades. I didn't realize 289s are so valuable. As I remember theres one 289 K code in there. Nothing is for sale. Yet.
I tried, but a bankruptcy made storage impossible. I love the 289 and helped a friend get his into the 11’s in a 65 Mustang.
What an awesome haul man AWOO 🤙🏼
Thanks! This is perfect video series. I need an engine for a 67 cougar trans am tribute!
I’ll be doing a lot more content on this and a few other engines I’ve done in the upcoming couple of months, if you’d like to chat about your Cougar T/A tribute, shoot me an email TheGT350Garage@gmail.com because I’m very familiar with those cars, my first car having been a ‘67 XR-7 way back when that I did quite a lot with, and I can put you on to some great resources!
@@TheGT350Garageemail sent!
Check the address, I haven’t received an email yet.
@@TheGT350GarageIt's all in THE details 😂😂. Check again, sorry.
Great information, much of what you shared I have never heard of before 👍🙂
recently discovered your channel and I really enjoy your content, I can't wait to see part 2!
Thank-you so much for this video! I am building a 331 with a 1968 block and had never heard of the different steam-hole locations! I checked my AFR heads and just like you said, the steam-holes are off-set. The Fel-pro head-gaskets have both locations but as you noted, no way to get across without a channel. You saved me from from my ignorance and have one more new subscriber😃
And that is why this video was important for me to make. Thanks for watching, and I hope you’ll come back for the rest of the build!
Nice build.
Good prep work.👍
Thanks for sharing. 👍🇺🇸👍
Good to have you back! Great video!
I did a 1990 302 for my 77 F100 pickup, I used the Trickflow 170 heads and a Lunati Voodoo roller, lots of fun! Can't wait to see your set up!
Sitll working on my 496 Mopar too, Icon released 11.0 pistons so I bought those for my current elevation of 3400 ft, now just decided if I want to run hydraulic roller or solid flat tappet cam
Your 302 has potential. I’ve done tons of “5.0L” builds using essentially a stock short block that produce 400-450hp from out of the box TFS Twisted Wedge 170 heads. People don’t give that head the credit it’s due because it’s “old” now. It’s still probably the best performing head horsepower per dollar under $1500 for a pair.
Excellent video!
Another awesome video. Great to see you back.
New here, looking forward to this series
Thank u for the great content !!!
Make sure you check the cam bore. Ford honed some blocks after the installed the cam bearingd
I am curious of the specs on your camshaft selection with this block setup!
That will be covered in an upcoming video.
Thanks.
Is there any advantage to drilling the coolant steamvents before decking?
Absolutely, you guarantee no burrs on the deck, and the cleaning process will remove any metal particles. My plans have changed a few times and three years ago when the machine work was supposed to begin, I was still planning to run early factory style iron heads.
glad to see you back so you had to buy a new house with a bigger garage.. thats what i need.
i got trhe 351w running good . i havent installed the egr setup yet.
I have people say I don't get it I have no interest in that stuff and personally I love putting together engines especially all fresh parts, put on some chill tunes zone in just go step by step so it's relaxing work and just pick away at it and I tell em the feeling of having a pile of parts and building an engine out of it is so gratifying from the start up to when you take it out and do a high rpm smoker. Assembling a stock engine is still fun but when you make modifications like head work, pick the cam pick the pistons cam you choose deck height whatever that's the real achievement and at that point you are an engine builder not an engine assembler. Not everyone is confident mixing and matching parts but it's all stuff you learn from research another fun aspect but even if you do stock rebuilds that's an accomplishment worth pointing out even that takes some skill and knowledge. I love going custom tho that's the funniest. The first fire up That's a high you can't get from drugs.
If the cylinder centerlines are aligned offset by 0.060 toward the direction of rotation, will there be a measurable increase in torque due to the alignment of the power stroke of the piston, connecting rod, and crankshaft?
What you’re talking about doing is usually accomplished with an offset wrist pin in the piston. The real reason is more about the thrust forces on the cylinder wall than the angle of force the piston applies to the crankshaft through the connecting rod. Moving the bores would effectively change the relationship to the cam, require moving the head to align over the piston, and simply is not something I’d ever recommend attempting.
@@TheGT350Garage On another TH-cam channel, there is a bottom-up view of something similar to a 4-inch bore with a typical cylinder head installed. Inline valves, 1.9 or 2 inches intake, and 1.6 inches exhaust. With no experience to judge, there appeared to be little room. I would be skittish around the offset center of pressure with offset wrist pins until I could see the cyclical stresses and pressures between peak torque and peak rpm. Where can I learn more about offset wrist pins?
@@TheGT350Garage The offset in Ford's flathead and new 3cyl makes me curious but I'm too ignorant to know better. I would also need to learn about the cam specs and setup changes.
Offset wrist pins are VERY common. Even Ford used them in production 302 engines. That’s why a lot of pistons have an arrow denoting “Front” on the pistons. Do a little google search and you’ll see. The new Toyota Dynamic Force engines all use offset bores (relative to the crank centerline) as you ask about, it generates the same end result.
@@TheGT350Garage thank you
Shes a beautiful car
how can you determine Mexican or Winsor?
Mexican blocks have “HECHO EN MEXICO” cast in the valley. Windsor blocks have a W and Cleveland Foundary is CF. More to it than that but those are the dead giveaways.
Im interested in knowing how many main cap or crank issues you have had or heard of out of a high horsepower high reving 2 bolt main 302/351w with or without a main girdle ??? Ive took alot of motors apart but I’ve never seen any catastrophic failure due to main failure of any sort . Have you ???
This is actually going to be the topic of an upcoming video. I’ll tease you with this to think about; NHRA 289 225hp spec Super Stock engines regularly spin over 8000rpm in production blocks using production cranks, rods and even pistons, per super stock rules. They are more prone to valvetrain issues than short block issues. In the opposite end of the spectrum we have 5.0L blocks failing but not because the block is somehow inferior to a 289, it’s the application and the way the blocks are being used. I haven’t personally failed a block, but I’ve had customers fail blocks in engines I built by going beyond the design limitations of the build.
@ yeah but was the failed blocks due to main cap issues??? Thats the question.
Btw im an engine builder too i don’t come on here to give you trouble i come in here for educated conversation about the sbf engine .. because i really enjoy it .
@ the main cap itself isn’t the issue, I’ve used standard blocks, HiPo 289s, Mexican 302s, 5.0L blocks and the B50 Sportsman blocks, I’ve never had the main cap itself fail on any of those blocks, it’s always the main web of the block that fails, and if you look at enough failures you’ll see that the blocks fail in very similar ways. There are some differences in the failure threshold with bolts vs studs because of the difference in the application of force, same with girdles or straps, but in the end, blocks fail in the same way across the range of failures, and the failures have two common causes.
@ btw do you thing the blocks that had main webbing issues were ballanced correctly ??
@glennramsey917 it’s a combination of things, balance plays into it, but isn’t the only cause.
The information given gives great stuff, though I would have done slightly more differently. The plug into., great! I would blue print the oil filter area, detail the oil return spots, remove casting flashing, studs, windage tray, stud girdle, and road course oil pan with slosh gates. I would paint the inside of the block. The outside gets iron primer and engine black after the washer. There was a guy that made a plate to pin in and bolt into the lifter valley to prevent block splitting, would have to work with lifter spider.
Can't remember much else, clean all threads in blind holes with a bottoming tap. Some of the threads on Boss windage bolts, could order later bolts with the tapped hole on top.
Why not use the Trans Am rod with the 331 piston? Better rod to stroke ratio. Old school builder.
So, the valley girdle is actually of no use. If you watched the entire video I explained why I didn’t stud or girdle. It is getting a Moroso baffled/gated 9qt pan with a windage tray. Detailing the valley isn’t super critical on a mostly street engine, neither is painting the interior of the engine. I’ll be using a light acid solution before applying a red oxide primer and painting Ford Corporate Blue. Using an H-Beam and the stock Rod:Stroke ratio is right at 1.8:1 so there isn’t a need to go higher. Come back for the follow up videos and you’ll actually see me chase all the threads and cover a lot of the items you’ve mentioned.
Very worthwhile info. Thank you!
(Note: Heavy breathing audible is a distraction) Gaps in audio also a negative.
@kensheffer9539 appreciate the feedback, I’m working with a new microphone and it’s taking a little getting used to and trying to figure out best placement.
Blocks were scrutized for core shift,does ur original block still exist?
I doubt it. It’s been out of the car for 50+ years. I have a standard bore C6AE-E casting with a fairly close date code, it’s about 75-90 days too early for the car, but that’s just waiting in the wings if I decide to return the car to “stock”.
I am not an expert in metallurgy, I just want to tell you about my experience with blocks and heads that were manufactured in Mexico. Ok I'm going to be somewhat rustic, here in Mexico when I started building engines due to some failures in the head gaskets I began to question how good the head and block resurfacing job they did in the machine chop was, so it occurred to me to use a glass 1 centimeter thick with two sandpapers glued with a thin layer of spray glue. Holding the glass with a double suction cup I began to carve the surface of the block in different patterns. ok I realized 2 things, the first that the work of the machine chop was very bad in this case, and the second that after applying that in different blocks and heads made in Mexico and made in the USA I can tell you that the amount of manual work and the largest amount of sandpaper that I have to use in a block made in Mexico when purchasing a block made in the USA... I don't know what it contains but the Mexican block is harder
Hardness isn’t necessarily a material difference, it can also be from heat treating the parts or the way the parts are cooled during the manufacturing process.
I use ARP studs and a Canton road race pan that has windage tray buit in to it. Race Tech dome pistons RPM lite weight I beam rods, 289 crank indexed by Ken's snd Leslie's back in the 80's
Nice setup, like I said in the video, I had to make specific choices due to circumstances that were out of my control. If I was to do it again, I would use studs, but that change has to be decided before it’s line honed. I’m using the big 9qt Moroso road race pan and matching windage tray, also a really nice setup, I’ve used them before with good results. Canton, Aviad, and Moroso are all good quality pans, I haven’t had the best experiences with other manufactures.
I have a boss 302 windage tray and the main bolts had it on the 289 I drag raced in the 80's . Bought it along with a boss 302'balancer from the local Ford dealer.
I also run the Mexican black have a 1968 that needs a sleeve. Then the one I'm running now is a 1972 Mexican block.
Like you channel love the 289
Thanks Walter.
You mention restricting oil if you are running mechanical lifters, I cannot find any information on that. Can you elaborate that as I will be running a solid lifter flat tappet cam. Also regarding the steam holes, I just called AFR and they stated nothing needs to be done on an early block when using their heads, so since this is my first time using aftermarket heads I need to figure this out. You did not state any specs on the hole, I would assume matching the other hole, but is it all the way into the water jacket, i.e. drill completely through?
Indeed, AFR does not address the steam holes, they should, but because most of their heads are used on later model blocks or race blocks with the newer steam hole location, it seems to be something they don’t consider important. You need to drill the holes the same size as the hole in the head gasket (about 3/16”) and you drill through the deck into the coolant passages around the cylinder. It’s an easy enough process, takes about half an hour, and does not affect the integrity of the engine block in any way. Do not drill the head. It’s not necessary to restrict oil on a SBF unless you suspect too much oil flow to the valvetrain. I don’t restrict the passages unless I’m running a maximum effort engine. Oil to the lifters and rockers is important to protect the lifters, pushrods, and rockers, it also cools the valve springs.
@@TheGT350Garage I did reinforce the fact that I amusing a 289 which is an older design compared to a modern 302, but they insisted nothing needs to be done with a steam hole. I'll add it as it is simple, might have to do it like you after machining as I don't have the heads yet and need to get the block into the machine shop before the busy winter work starts to pile up. Thanks for clarifying the oil restrictor.
@robertpanter6198 all you need is a head gasket to use as a template. Mark the steam hole with a sharpie, center punch the hole, drill with a sharp 3/16” drill bit. Go slow-ish, it takes about 3-4 minutes per hole, the deck is about 7/16” thick where you’re drilling. I don’t doubt that they said it’s not needed, but if that’s the case, why do they put the coolant passages in the head for a late model block. Makes no sense. I’ve drilled dozens of blocks, and I don’t have heating issues, so I keep doing what works.
@@TheGT350Garage Well, drilling steam holes was a fail for me. The second hole on the passenger side number 3 cylinder the drill bit wandered a bit high and even with a good drill at the right speed, quality bit, cutting oil and blowing out the hole as I went, the cast iron blew out into the lifter valley. What did I learn here? The tolerance is fairly close on half of the steam holes, which was not emphasized and drill bits don't make great precision holes. So is this an easy home project, I say no, leave it to the machine shop. Now have to see if the machine shop can weld up the hole in the lifter valley and bore (not drill) the steam holes with a milling machine to ensure precision. I can't add pictures here or I would. I hope I did not just ruin this block.
@robertpanter6198 the holes don’t have to be precise, the holes in a late model block are huge triangles 3/4” x 3/4” on the right angle, you’re drilling a 3/16” hole that mostly lines up. You’re going to be fine. You could use a 3/8” bit and it wouldn’t matter because the hole in the gasket would restrict the passage anyway. It doesn’t need to be nearly as precise as you’re thinking. Your engine will thank you and run cooler for it in the long term. Masking the engine and using magnets was the easiest way to manage the bits of iron, putting tape on the magnets or wrapping them in paper or putting them in a sandwich bag will keep the chips reigned in. You’ll be in good shape, don’t worry about a slight misalignment on the holes.
Ive been trying something new with great success .. before i paint an engine i use a torch and heat the block up .. while doing so i can see the moisture drying up . When im done doing that i paint it .. the block might be 85 degrease but its dry . One old timer told me thats the same thing is curing a cast iron skillet . He said when its warm the pourus metal opens up and releases the moisture and when i paint it it draws the paint down in the porus of the block . Idk how much of it is true but i do know my paint is lasting longer and staying shinier n prettier since i started heating the block up .
When I was learning the trade, I was taught to use a zinc phosphate primer on bare cast iron to promote adhesion and we used a custom mixed agricultural paint in the color we needed for the engine we were working on. The problem is, as good as those materials were, they had too many VOCs (and other fun stuffs) and are no longer produced.
@ u mean ppl got paid to get hi inhaling it and the govt wasn’t getting enough money out if it so they canceled it .. right ???
Nah, pretty sure it had lead in it too.
Jesel dry timing belt,, steel crank,,, steel main caps with a girdle, H beam rods,, coated Pistons top and sides,, painted internal block,, close to 14 to 1 compression,, let's make some HP...
You buy, I’ll try. 🤣
For now, I’m at 12.2:1 with Wiseco pistons, H-beams, stock crank, Mexican block. The next engine will get a steel crank, coated pistons with a narrower ring pack, and a 4.125” bore Dart block in 3-5 years
I'm with the crowd on using sealer on freeze plugs, why take a chance
If you live in a climate where it never freezes, you’ll be fine.
@@TheGT350Garage I live upstate NY, it gets below zero in the winter months, I like loctite 515 & 518
Just to add if you take your torch and heat the block up you can burn all the oil out of the pores of the block and this is done after you wash the block and get it all prepared you will bring all the oil out of the pores of the block that your detergent and washing did not get and the paint will stick and last much longer you don't have to heat it up to where it's read nothing like that as you put the torch on to the block you will see the heat spread and this just pulls the oil out
Why aren't you using a timable timing chain sprocket
It’s a 9-keyway crank sprocket, perfectly suited to what I need. I do not like the “adjustable” upper sprockets for two reasons, I’ve seen the Torrington thrust bearings fail and trash an engine, and I don’t trust the clamping load of the fasteners in the adjustable uppers, I would want a better system of locking the timing pieces together.
Thanks for the reply
If you install studs on the mains and then line hone it, the studs should be a non-issue.
Absolutely, but if you were paying attention, the block has already been line honed with bolts and I don’t want to duplicate the process a second time for the minuscule benefit studs would offer.
Eh, studs are more expensive anyway 😂
Not really in the grand scheme of things. Even if they are double the price of bolts it’s only a small fraction of the cost of the engine build.
Cool sbf content!
Thanks. More soon. I’m on vacation this week.
@TheGT350Garage cool. Should be a great power plant. I've got a 78 302 with the hipo type mains.
That would be a Mexican 302 block. They were fairly common in a lot of production cars from ‘74-78, especially Granadas, Monarchs, and Versailles.
Build many SB Ford's. Love the Mahle 1 MM 1 MM 2 MM ring package. Have long life in street and race applications.
They are great pistons, but I would have needed to custom order them to get where I’m going with my build, but with the TFS/Wiseco pistons I’m using, they are an off the shelf unit with 1/16”-1/1/6”-3/16” and 1/16” is 1.58mm so it’s a fairly narrow ring, I’m going to run a ZGS 2nd ring and low tension oil ring so it’s a pretty effective combination.
@@TheGT350Garage With the 347 Ford racing crate at 410 or so HP cant wait to see how your performs.
Thought 302 was 5.09
Thinking about partaking in No Name Nationals
No, I’m not building this for drag racing, it’s an open track road race setup, and I will also do some autocross in addition to a bit of street use. I get bored drag racing when the fun ends after a few seconds, and they don’t like it when you take the turn off at speed 😉.
Put the pistons on backwards kicks the rods out and makes more torque. Little Ford will be at people up
Hey 289 5.155
Actually the brushes are $400 for my cylinder hone from sunnen, also you gotta be careful how many strokes you do and pressure because it actually damage the surface finish. I have tested it with my profometer
Actually, the brushes from Goodson are what I use, not Sunnen, they run right at $75 for the UF-450 Ultrafinish Plateau Soft Hones, and we are not looking to change the cylinder size, just take that peak off the top.
iv put studs in a 350 chevy block with no distortion. I Have a dial bore gauge to check it , so i dont have to go by...They say stuff. Check with a gauge before passing on fake news, please. I worked in a machine shop many years, and they would tell customers that so they could pay for their line hone machine ! Grrumpy Jenkins said machist can mess it up worse than factory, i found that to be absolutely true from first hand experiance !
This is bad advice for a maximum effort engine. I put studs in a 289; dial bore gauge checked good before and after, but the crank didn’t turn as nice after. We barely kissed it with the align hone, not even taking enough to measure, but the crank went back in and spun real nice afterwards. I’m sure if I had taken the time to measure in about 100 places I could have probably measured the distortion, but it wasn’t exactly obvious.
@PeggyParrow a dial bore gauge will only tell you part of the story with the stud replacement. Because the load distribution changes with studs, the distortion in the main bores can be so slight the dial bore gauge can not detect it. The variation in the bore may be .00025” (which most machinists will write off because their dial bore gauges are t that accurate, it shows as little more than a needles width between marks on even the best Sunnen and Starrett dial bore gauges. The distortion does not occur in the same plane as adjacent bores and you end up with a stack of tolerances that are several degrees off of the next in the line bore. It only shows up later as edge wear in the bearings.
Use a Chevy piston has big valve relief's 1.560 Pin
This sounds great in theory but you’ll need two half-sets of pistons to make a full set for the Ford head. Ford uses a .912 wrist pin and Chevy uses a .927 also, the 289 and 302 both use a 1.600CD, so putting the Chevy piston in would require using an 8.150” deck height (cutting the deck .056” or more is aggressive). Instead, I would simply recommend buying the correct pistons for the cylinder head being used, with the block, crank and rod combination you desire.
core plugs go in dry
For 35 years i use permatex sealant and adhesive and sealant on core plugs and threaded plugs. 🤔
@tomhamilton9140 I used to use Indian Head Shellac but after seeing a block crack because a plug wouldn’t push out, I stopped. Especially now that I’m in a colder climate, I’d rather have a little extra protection from a freeze.
Could've bought an iron eagle block,the sleeves were pretty expensive I'd imagine
I considered that, but it was the height of Covidflation, and they were about $4000 delivered. They are also nearly 80lbs heavier and I don’t want the weight on the nose of the car. And sleeving and line honing the block was on the machine shop’s dime because they screwed up. It’s normally about $100 per cylinder, so with all eight and a line hone it’s about $1000 to save an otherwise good block. If it were a serial numbers matching HiPo block, I wouldn’t hesitate to sleeve all eight to save a block.
@TheGT350Garage Fosho,some of the hips blocks had VIN stamped on an oil pan rail
Most actually. The only ones that didn’t were service blocks bought through the parts departments and blocks that went to Shelby to be installed in 289 Cobras. If a HiPo went in a car, it got the VIN stamped on the passenger side skirt above the oil pan rail just behind the timing cover and in front of the motor mount.
Why did you take it out to 30 over after it was slaved why didn't you make it a standard size and save material
Because I already had the pistons and they are not available in standard 4.000 or 4.060 except as a custom order. They are really nice Wisecos from TFS with a small dome to offset the valve reliefs, and they are a hand detailed piston, unusually nice for an off the shelf piston actually.
Sorry but I feel the need to comment on a few major issues. When the block was mistakenly bored to .060 was it the sonic tested to see if it could be safely run for your usage at that? You said none of the holes for the sleeves broke through into water so all you have affectivity done is significantly reduced the blocks integrity. I'll explain. It's a parent bore block and the cylinders help to hold the block together, particularly the inside to the outside. You have removed most of all the original cylinders. The real problem comes when the sleeves go in with interference. If done correctly two cylinders that aren't next to each other are bored so the sleeves have interference and then are pressed in. The two other cylinders that aren't next to each other are bored so the sleeves have interference. The issue is now there is so much less parent block left and you have set each bank up with two lots of tension in it. You are also going to get it so much hotter by making more HP and more cycles. The iron your using is also not new and has been through numerous heating cooling cycles not to mention potential irregular metal loss from the outside of the cylinders from rust. If the block was going to be used for a grandpa spec application you MAY get away with it but you are talking 480hp. We have tried sleeving all cylinders for Hi-HP endurance applications and they end up leaking water into the crank case and they have cracked on the deck between the cylinders. On customers jobs I have to err on the side of caution. Max sleeves per bank is 2 x and they can't be next to each other. I'm also sorry to sound overly critical but Ultra grey on threads is not industry accepted. A non hardening thread sealer on both male and female threads. Cam plugs are normally installed with a liquid sealer in the hole and go just past the chamfer. People who watch some of this material don't often know any better than what you might be saying. Good on you for trying to make helpful content. Regards Scott
I appreciate the comments. My machinist has cut the cylinders and sleeved ordinary 2-bolt blocks with all eight sleeves for over 45 years. I’ve run his machine work for 25+ years, and I haven’t had failures related to his work. We do things that many say can’t be done with success. And like it or not the pipe plugs won’t leak with the UG on them, and the core plugs won’t leaks installed dry. I’ve seen core plugs stay glued in and blocks freeze and crack because the plug would not budge, which is worse if you ask me. This isn’t a customer job, and no one is asking you as a machinist to compromise your personal ethics or do anything you’re uncomfortable with.
@@TheGT350GarageIt's what works for You ! I built a 71 Mopar 340 that had 3 cylinders that were cracked & I had a Machine shop in Ft. Worth TX. Bore & sleeve all 8 cylinders and bored them to 4.080 & installed a set of TRW power forged pistons and I was told that it would never hold up but I ended up putting over 100K miles on it and never had any problems with it. P/S the Machinist left a small step at the bottom of all the cylinders and installed the sleeves with some type of sealant on them never had any coolant lose or coolant in the crankcase .
Great points,those windsor blocks r notorious for being weak from scratch
@ferdinandcuevas8457 Green Loc-Tite is commonly used during sleeve installs, they won’t move. Heat transfer is fine, and durability has never been an issue. Thanks for the comments!
@@rickyfulks6656weak?! Compared to what exactly? What is the criteria of your comparison?
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