The extension leads I use for powering all sorts of other appliances eg a welding machine, an electric lawnmower, doesn't have fancy electronics in it to make sure both ends are properly connected so why should the lead for charging my car need this?
Hi Dave! In Germany the standard requires a DPDT relay or dual relays for neutral + live. (SS 428 08 34 or DIN VDE0620-1) Also, as far as I know, the double pole switch in AU is mandatory too. (AS/NZS 3105)
@@edc1569 That usually never happens or it shouldn't, the car will enable the contractors, as there is no high load the on the initial start the sparking should be minimal.
@@edfx Neutral could be also LIVE if you rotate the plug, this is true for any county where the plug can be inserted 0 or 180 degrees. The approval for each region or country can be different but on some they require the following: when the device is turned OFF there should be no voltage coming out of the outlet contacts (neutral, live, earth).
@@fredfred2363 but then it should be possible to add auto-resetting devices to them. It will attempt switching the RCD on after a few minutes, a few times if necessary, until max failed attempts number is reached. Back a year ago, when I was working for Enelion, we were testing that, including high and low temperature environment testing - I'm not sure if it went into use in EVSEs though.
@@fredfred2363generally that’s down to the sparks not understanding they need to allow for discrimination so the internal protection has time to work before the RCBO trips out.
@@AfifAhmad He's likely referring to schuko or the others used in EU in consumer applications. The high current / high power ones are the CEE plugs (search for IEC/EN 60309-2). They're available in 16, 32, 63 or 125A and either in single phase 230/250V (blue plug) or three phase 400V (red plug, either 4 pole without neutral or 5 pole with neutral and ground)
Always concerns me to see screw terminals that if they slackened off they could rotate and touch, especially on a portable device. Some heatshrink over the crimp terminals would help if they can't use locking terminals.
openevse is quite good. it has all the ground fault detection and an extra test wire around the common coil so it can cause a ground fault imbalance for testing.
Here in North America, you'd have to have a relay on both sides as the 240v is center tap for 120 each side so both legs of power are hot with respect to ground.
@@smalltime0Would work if you've got single phase supply, which would be the case in Europe or Japan for smaller homes (and in pretty much all of the UK).
Given that it only switches live, it would be interesting to know if it's capable of detecting when its plug is wired with live and neutral reversed, and if so, what it does.
Fire Rescue Victoria recently responded to a fire in Glen Waverley. Some muppet was using a charger like this with a travel power adaptor. Looks like they lost their garage and two vehicles. Luckily the EV battery didn't ignite. I can see a world where insurers over here won't pay out on claims when non RCM marked cables are used. Fires are real and 32A is a considerable constant current.
But SAE (including SAE J1772) is meaningless for Australia, it is North American standard (but not even for all of North America) and is applicable to US and Canada only, for Australia are applicable IEC standards, so because this is not according SAE not necessary mean is not legal (and safe???) according IEC (I don't know what IEC standard say about it).
You can't really make that verdict without detail expose of the intended purpose rationale behind the specification and its overlap with the real world operation of the unit. Yes, you can say it doesn't meet a "specified safety standard", which is a legal thing, where "unsafe", at least for me, is a practical operation thing. Exploitation settings also matter, is it in a bare concrete garage, or is it the garage of a hoarder, full of cardboard boxes willed with flammable stuff. If you know you skimped on it, and it doesn't meet certification, it could prove quite useful to know what negative consequences that might have, and avert almost all of it by being a tad educate-informed so you ACTUALLY pay attention when you handle high voltage stuff. I think those "safety standards" which makes average people a bit too much looking at it as an iphone cable, which can in turn delegate to many situations where those people get to apply the same low level of diligence when handing high voltage that doesn't have a certified "pacifier" mandated and stuck to its dangerous end...
@@mrlazda The only difference between the European version (I don't have the number handy) and SAE is the European is set up for 3 phase. The protocols are the same. They also open the ground connection in some countries.
One could say this EVSE is “possibly or likely unsafe in US, Canada and some of Mexico*” due to use of split phase 240 volts with both supply leads separated from ground by 120 volts. This unit only has a current transformer on one lead, thus it would not properly detect a ground fault in a split phase wired situation. *Mexico has both 127 v / 220 v three-phase and 120 v / 240 v split phase regions.
@@wtmayhew It wouldn't detect a ground fault, period. The relative voltage of the supply lines to ground or their location on earth are irrelevant. Ground fault detection requires measuring the current going in both directions. As for how safe this thing is, that's a relative thing and a consequence of the environment in which it's used. All you can really say is that is doesn't meet the requirements of a specific standard. Clearly Dave used it without issue, and while that's is a very limited test that shows that it can be used without issue for at least some amount of time. What's the chance of an issue caused by some deficiency in it's design? If that is serious enough to cause concern, can this risk be mitigated? For example, can it be used on a branch circuit with a GFCI breaker at the panel to give you your ground fault protection?
I saw an EVSE which looks similar to this one listed for the US market on Amazon. It would be interesting to see the inside of the unit to see if it has a proper GFCI and relay switching on both supply leads. I doubt you’d find that out from the Amazon listing or any of the product reviews. It would work, but it would be patently uncool to relay switch just one side of a split phase connection to the vehicle. I wouldn’t put it past a sketchy Chinese manufacturer to sidestep proper design. On the other hand there are excellent Chinese manufacturers, but it is difficult to tell if you’re getting excellent or sketchy from an Amazon listing. Unfortunately Chinese authorities allowing the sketchy manufacturers to persist damages the reputation of all Chinese manufacturers.
I saw an EVSE which looks similar to this one listed for the US market on Amazon. It would be interesting to see the inside of the unit to see if it has a proper GFCI and relay switching on both supply leads. I doubt you’d find that out from the Amazon listing or any of the product reviews. It would work, but it would be patently uncool to relay switch just one side of a split phase connection to the vehicle. I wouldn’t put it past a sketchy Chinese manufacturer to sidestep proper design. On the other hand there are excellent Chinese manufacturers, but it is difficult to tell if you’re getting excellent or sketchy from an Amazon listing. Unfortunately Chinese authorities allowing the sketchy manufacturers to persist damages the reputation of all Chinese manufacturers.
Why? RCD is installed in front of the outlet. RCD is required in the installation, so all equipment connected is protected and all the wiring is protected. I live in a civilized country. Actually all european countries have RCD before fuses or a combined RCD / autofuse in the main distribution board.
@@robina.jensen6114 At least in the US, the standard outlet based RCD would trip regularly because EV's test ground by passing a small current through it. EVSE's integrate a CCID that triggers at ~20mA to avoid that nuisance tripping.
Copper-cladded aluminium is not new. For cost reasons it was commonly used in the Eastern Block. As inheritage from the Eastern Block we now also have it in Germany.. In East Germany it's know as AlCu or ALCU. To the best of my knowledge it's an ok material for conductors though the larger diameter may make cables a bit stiffer. Yet its still lighter than an equivalent copper cable. I've only ran once across it, in Hungary.
my understanding with copper clad aluminium cable is it doesn't hold up well under repeated flexing and twisting like 100% copper cable does. I replaced the wiring running to my range in my house that was aluminium wire and the strands cracked in several places when i coiled the wire to recycle it. it was only ~30 years old and being house wire wasn't flexed much.
@@JHulce What you describes matches common knowledge on aluminium. The cable was probably always a little brittle so it had to be treated more gently than pure copper. WHen you ripped the cable out you had no reason to handle the cable gently so it's not surprising that it broke. Eastern European (as in cold war era) electricians were used to dealing with CCA cables so they were aware of the special properties. Annoying during the installation but not safety problem that I'm aware off once properly installed. I've had a few device leads which I think were made from aluminium. They didn't appear to be brittle but were relatively thick. I assume these must have been special alloys which reduce the brittleness. Copper is a material in high demand. It's only a matter of price compared to aluminium and CCA will return.
For all of you who did not notice, this device has 0.75mm² ground wire, same as CP wire. While this is more than enough to carry communication, it is not enough to ground a 32A circuit. And this EVSE has no RCD inside, so the only protection you have is RCD somewhere else in the circuit. If your 32A socket is not RCD protected, and there is a short circuit, ground wire would catch fire. If they were cutting cost, they could use thinner wire, for example 2.5mm², which can handle 32A short for a few second, enough to trip the breaker. But 0.75mm² is not enough.
Cable stripped by mice biting off the outer insulation, and then the core could be CCA, you would need to cut a strand to see if it is shiny copper or bright aluminium under the copper. Only live switched, will still probably pass approval, but yes relies on the main RCD for protection, and I suspect that a short to the PE could blow the traces off the board before the main breaker or RCD will open, making it now unsafe, though, as the control chip likely will also be blown up, as it has connections each side of that trace, it will probably fail in the on state, as the relay will not be actuated to turn off.
@@EEVblog They sprang for real copper, so it at least is good enough to keep in the car as emergency charger, and if you find somebody stranded at a place with no battery, but with a charge outlet, cheap enough that it being lost is not a real issue then.
I think there are rules around DC leakage on RCDs in or with EVSEs as well. At the very least the RCD has to be able to detect AC imbalance in the presence of superimposed DC. Many upstream RCDs won't have that feature.
@@edc1569 Aluminium is only slightly bigger than copper for same current, and of course with chinesium manufacture it will be exactly the same diameter for the supposed ratings.
I believe the designs that also switch the neutral are also made to work with 240v US “Level 2” charging where that neutral is actually a second hot 180° out of phase. The board on your older one is flexible enough for EVSEs sold in other markets while this one is only for single-phase power.
@@Gameboygenius You’re right. I was just looking at a European IKEA-brand power strip someone donated to Goodwill and noted how the ground can connect in either orientation.
@Juergen Yes, but this board can be used at lower amperage with other outlets too. It is very common for the same EVSE control board to be sold in various configurations, like the Gen2 from Clipper Creek (one of mine is 12A with a NEMA 5-15 and the other is 16A with a NEMA 14-30). There is also the potential to get it backwards when you hard wire.
@@Juergen_Miessmer That's true of course, but most home chargers in Europe will probably be either a wall mounted unit with a permanently connected EV plug, or a 16 A plugin charger using a 2 phase schuko plug. I think it's pretty rare to have a CEE socket in your garage unless you live on a farm or used it for power tools like an old drill press in your garage.
Definitely cheap-assing it- single pole switching and no RCD. Also lack of approvals marks. But why are they measuring the line current ( and voltage) that is totally unnecessary, whearas RCD protection really is needed.
I believe the dual-pole switching is mostly to make the EVSE board flexible enough for 2-phase (so to speak) electricity, like US 240v Level 2 charging. Both conductors are hot (neither are neutral).
…and as @Gameboygenius pointed out to me in another thread, you’d also need to switch neutral for unpolarized applications like Japanese and European plug types.
Hi Dave! That charging cable could be bought online in China for CNY 258.2 (~AU$ 53.5) after discount, with free delivery. Of course it comes with Chinese type I mains plug, not AU mains plug. Dual relays for both neutral and live are mandatory in Chinese standard (GB/T 18487.1). RCD is also mandatory. GB/T 20234.2 stated on the marker is Chinese standard equivalent to IEC 62196, which defines the type 2 connector on the vehicle side. On the control board it says "单继电器底板" (single relay base-board) so the single relay design is intended. They may have a dual-relays version as well. Maybe you could talk to the company "宁点" (Ning-dian) with the cellphone number they left behind it. The push-in connector J5 on control board says "温度" (Temperature) but left unconnected. Maybe there is an external temperature sensor not installed yet.
4:26 I've just recently purchased an MG5, so i've been looking into different chargers and the like. there's 3 things of concern with the cheapy design: 1. Not having the Neutral and Live isolated completely from the car can cause some cars to back feed DC into the house electrical supply. In the UK that's why a Type B RCD is used in EV installations. It was found that a car could leak DC back to the earth and cause shocks even with a standard type A or AC RCD because they wouldn't trip. 2. Not having them isolated also means installations with a split phase, say 120 - 0 - 120, could still feed the car with 120v even when the car is commanding the switch to isolate the supply. 3. Not having an RCD inboard of the charger is just dumb :P
I was a little concerned that the earth connectivity is via the pcb trace. I was brought up to have a longer earth lead so that it is the last to break off if the cable clamp fails. I am sure the lawyers will argue that electrical safety is not the manufacturers responsibility as long as its works out of the box without any 'wear and tear'.
I don't think Earth through PCB tracks or solder joints is ever permissable for safety Earths. It's only valid for purposes like EMI suppression where it doesn't matter so much if the track fuses.
Maybe they implemented the RCD functionality by checking for current returning on the ground line? Might be worth a try introducing a fault with a resistor to see if it trips.
Definitely not legal in Europe. Both live and neutral must be treated as live (we have a mixture of delta and wye supplies), plus who knows how a house has been wired. Full earth monitoring is required, and it must include the most simplest 30mA RCD. Earth leakage or broken earth must be detected too. The granny charger I got with my VW ID.3 has switched off with earth fault detection at old houses I've visited (which still don't have even a 300mA main RCD) when certain appliances have been switched on, like electric ovens or kettles, highlighting faults in those devices :)
The scary part of no switched neutral is if someone didn’t follow code and/or didn’t have a qualified install and inspection and then swapped hot and neutral in the supply circuit.
I was very glad my '21 Nissan LEAF SV included a factory 120/240 EVSE, as I was not looking forward to shopping and evaluating the alternatives. Plus, in San Diego, installing a hard-wired EVSE needs a permit, but a new 240V outlet doesn't, which sealed the deal for using the factory EVSE.
Lack of GFCI/RCD aside, I would love to get a thermal reading off the insane bend in that neutral cable. That looks like roast chicken territory to me.
@EEVblog title can have charger in tags.... the title can say "charger"/EVSE.. I get the search issues, but it doesn't hurt to use the correct term, engineering "conciseness" and all. Lol
@@EEVblog not sure that it is known at this time. they blamed the fact that it was a travel charger with an adapter, probably tesla to j1772?i thought most leafs can only AC charge at 3.3kw which is pretty slow compared to most EV's so thats also weird.
Articles blamed an adapter.. suggestion that it might have been a Japanese import Leaf, so possibly supplied with an OEM or replacement EVSE with Japanese plug
This is an "In-cable control and protection device" (IC-CPD), defined by IEC 62752 (printed on the back). RCD feature is a must - should monitor both AC and DC faults. Also note that the ground wire is thinner than the other wires; this is typically not allowed. Don't buy.
The PE is to small to carry the short cut current from a 6mm^2 current! There should be a RCD included, the RCD must check the PE connection, while you switch on. IF there is no GND connection the charger should not start.
@@edc1569 the MCB needs for fast action (magnetic trigger) a lot of current. A 32A MCB Type B needs a minimum of 160A to act fast. With 160A you get a fast acting PE (lost by burn out). You will be able to charge your car. But without any safety!
Maybe fine in Australia, but in North America the single pole relay could be an issue. If it's used as a level 2 EVSE here, both of those wires will be hot to get you your 240VAC supply. Maybe nothing bad happens, but still seems undesirable. I know that my EVSE has a double pole contactor that disconnects both sides when not commanded to supply power to the car.
I don’t even care if it’s still complying with the safety standard or not. I would want it to switch both sides and have an RCD. That car connector is likely to have a lot water ingress, or just be left in puddles with the carelessness of people leaving it on the ground without the cover. The wall outlets may be DIY too, so the protections on there and correct wiring order. Well, you can only hope it’s correct.
It amazes me that people buy cheap junk 'chargers' / plug in EVSE's (unless it's for a review video!). I picked up an unused genuine Audi one with both the 32A 'commando' plug cable and a 13A plug cable here in the UK for about the same amount. They're the same as the Porsche ones, just branded differently. They're a clever design where the changeable incoming cable to the configures the maximum charge current. One model can do 11kW / from 3 phase, 7 kw from 240V / 32A single phase, 3 kw from 240V 16A, and slightly less from 240V 13A, given the right incoming cable. Built in 30 mA AC and 6 ma DC RCD, and earth checking too. BMW / Mini's chargers also have their output current configured by the changeable incoming cable in the same way, but they usually come with only one cable, at least here in the UK, and the other incoming cables for them are ridiculously expensive. Many of the Audi / Porsche ones seem to have originally been supplied with 2 incoming cables, making them considerably better value if you want to be able to use them at say 3.5 kW and 7kW.
Hi, would you ever do a teardown of an AC to DC onboard charger? I guess they're hard to get because they are built into the car. You would have a lot of components and PCBs to examine...
I make the simplest possible EV chargers using DIN modules, but: They all have RCD They all have double isolation relays Note that having lathing relays is a terrible design. If your internal power supply fails, there is no way to unlatch it, and the user might plug it in within the latched position. Effectively making a mode 1 charger.
Charger sitting in the car not in that electric box. Many thinks a little box is a charger. And misleading from business is a reason for that. And fun fact: The blue cable is not neutral in Norway it's live 115-120V and brown is also live 115-120V. It powergrid is standard in Norway. So that box is dangerous in Norway becouse is voltage on that blue wire.
Whats wrong with aluminium/aluminum instead of copper? Its a whole lot lighter then copper especially when you have a 380v 63a 3 phase cable with a neutral thats 25 meters long😉 Only downside is you do need to make sure its strain relieved properly and you roll it up in bigger loops then you would with copper.
Playing devil's advocate, but a downside to switching both live and neutral is the user may be blissfully unaware should the live switch fail short - hardly unknown in 'high' energy switching when the contacts weld together. Are the adapters required to detect and report this failure mode? I'd have thought that this may be a much more common fault, especially for a relay switch with much less power available for the switch operation than for a manual switch/breaker, than that of a reverse wired supply (I assume that in most countries 32A circuits will have polarized outlets/connectors).
How about a video on interesting accessories for oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers, DC benchtop/lab supplies, so on? There are lots of "ordinary" things people would know about, but what about the ones which are interesting for any reason?
I wonder if the PCB earth connection would be able to handle the required fault current? I don't see why both the in and out earths aren't attached to the same stud?
$100 local currency is about the right price point for an emergency EVSE to keep in the trunk just in case of emergency... I would consider this one even without all the safety stuff inside because it wouldn't be my everyday charger, just something I kept in the trunk in case I ever found myself without the range to get to a real charger. I reality, it would probably never get used, but like a spare tire it's good to have just in case, and if it's got a better than even chance of not burning or melting during it's one and only use, those are good enough odds to bet $100 on for me...
I’m using a sub $100 charger because the $650 pos Wallbox stopped working even more than usual after two years. I think the only charger brand I would actually trust is charge point.
Better to buy a good used one. For not much more, I bought a used Audi branded EVSE with both 13 amp UK and 32 amp CEE plugs. German designed and European made with a decent RCD inside too.
I have one of those and most of the time it doesn't work, simply says not connected. Still, on a lucky day, it works just fine, starts charging instantly. Any idea what might by the issue? Why is it not triggering the charging cycle?
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Because when there's a short between live and the car's body, the electronics inside the car cannot turn off the power. Also, you don't want the plug to be energised all the time. The touch-protection of those contacts is rather rudimentary, and it's used and stored outside where it's wet.
@@HenryLoenwind Does the car not connect to earth via the earth pin? Isn't there an RCD on the 32A outlet? It is essentially an extension cord, aren't thoes are always energised? It is unfortunate that the touch protection is poor such that all the extra complexity is required. I expect it would be used in the same environment that the Aus 32A connector outlet is, it is a shame the car doesn't just use one of thoes instead.
It's a shame... Looks like they had some decent attention to detail on board layout, decent crimps, etc. But it was missing a couple of biggies...I wonder if they make a model that's a bit more expensive and has dual relays, etc
If the car's electronics are good, they will refuse to initiate a charging session. Otherwise all will work fine but you'll have a live port in your driveway that's big enough to take small fingers.
Just how much worse are Aluminium cables? For something like a winch, if I double the size of the conductor(while changing from copper to Alum) am I better off or worse off?
Aluminum wire is perfectly fine if you use a larger conductor size to make up for the higher resistance. Just make sure your terminals are rated for aluminum or you will have corrosion issues that can cause a fire. Be sure to use anti-oxidant compound if the terminals or code requires it. It doesn't hurt to use it even if it's not required too.
At the current conversion rate as of today, $160 AU is about $110 US. You get what you pay for. Don't buy cheap crap if you are plugging it into a rather expensive EV
So if this cable were sold for like $500, would it be OK to buy it? The problem is not the price. For this $100 price you should be able to buy a decent quality relay with a microcontroller and some plastic casing.
@@kralg A EV charger is a lot more than just some relays and a microcontroller, if you want something safe. But sure, if you want to risk your EV on a device like this, then do so. There is a reason it's recommended not to buy it :)
@@EsotericArctos You did not really read my comment, did you? I never said this charger should be bought, I only said it is not the price that makes this charger good or bad. But for sure I cannot really see that "lot more" you are talking about.
I would probably simply call it "EV cable" for the mass but basically it's almost identical to a smart plug, calling it charger increases the prices for nothing as I've seens so called "chargers" sold for 3 grand or more in some cases. The missing RCD I don't think it's a big of an issue but it should be stated in the description, most countries (like mine) require to have at least one RCD that cover the whole house/bulding. I actually think that much protection is overkill and it's hindering the popularity of EVs dude to increase prices. My 9kw electric shower doesn't have a dedicated RCD, my 3kw electric heater doesn't have it too, why the EV charger should have it ? For the missing relay I think that if neutral is actually neutral it should not be an issue, If you think about it in the USA there is no protection in any socket and the plug design is much worse than a EV type2 where the contacts are well recessed inside the plug, you can literally touch live metal while plugging in any appliance, based on this logic each socket should have those protections.
Actually, the disappointing thing is that you don't build something so simple yourself and/or modify another charger to suit your needs. Disappointing. Then such a charger can't be expensive enough.
@@edc1569 ... and money ;) Building these simple adapters is a question of a few minutes with available components and a thing of 1/2 day building that all from scratch. There is "nothing" in there. That's the great thing charging an EV is so simple. I took available conponents and build my own wallbox and mobile box (adjustable power)
AU plug is polarized so I guess it can skimp by relying on the live and neutral always being the same. EU plugs are 180° rotatable, so that Earth is always Earth, but Live and Neutral can be either, so in that case both would need relays. The relays look terribly weak considering they would be carrying 32 A @ 7kW
@@edc1569 In Hungary where I live, the earth connector on the socket has strips on opposite sides of the diameter, 90 degrees from the L and N pins. There is no E pin, it's on the sides.
All "EV chargers" are just voltage/curent measurement devices, eg. power meters with a disconnect relay, some fancy display and some payment methods. Why they are called chargers? They are just some boxes with wires...
@@smalltime0 No such thing - ask a real Chinese manufacturer (I've worked with a few). This seems to be an internet myth that has gained too much traction in some areas, even in the EU (I have yet to come across any source that confirms it having official status). Also, the CE mark and the claimed Chinese Export mark both use characters that are part of a circle, not a regular font. If the C is extended to form a complete circle it exactly overlaps the curved back of the E in the CE mark and overlaps much of the E in the claimed Chinese Export mark. But the marking on this product as shown in the video is neither - perhaps they just used an Arial font or similar
Oh, my. The ground connection is horrible. The two ground wires are only connected via the PCB? I'd say that ground connection will blow before the circuit breaker when there's a short to ground... If that was done properly, I'd say it'd be ok to use for countries where you can 110% rely on the polarity of your wall sockets. On those with reversible plugs and/or sloppy wiring, this thing's dangerous.
Because that would limit the car to charge at the amps that one socket can take. Or you would need a bank of different sockets. Also, imagine how many different sockets you'd need for a car driven across Europe.
Considering that these things ought to be designed out entirely (just plug into the wall, dial-a-charge on the car dash, why need a dongle, waste of material and money), the worst and cheapest is the best! Always has me shaking my head. What absolute muppet came up with this specc. Any car should accept AC and DC without a dongle. And should be able to charge off solar cells directly. Matter of national security, so people can charge on dodgy sources in an emergency. And actually - as a power engineer - no real added effort. I need a lot of control authority for CC/CV charging let alone more advanced algorithms anyways. All digitally controlled. Easy to include some MPPT and other features. Finally we get to the issue of burning down your garage. A proper circuit will trip the breaker before burning down. Dont need "smart" for that either. If it doesnt, it was installed by criminals.
The best description of an EVSE is a "smart safety switch". It makes sure the cable is dead until both ends are properly connected.
@@randycarter2001 …a fancy extension cord with safety switches.
Not sure this one makes sure, it has a half hearted go though.
The extension leads I use for powering all sorts of other appliances eg a welding machine, an electric lawnmower, doesn't have fancy electronics in it to make sure both ends are properly connected so why should the lead for charging my car need this?
@@Skoobedobedo Because the pins are big , so they can deliver lots of amps. Easier to accidentally get something into them
Yep, and if it lacks both the "safety" and "bead" feature like this one does, it's a loser.
Hi Dave!
In Germany the standard requires a DPDT relay or dual relays for neutral + live. (SS 428 08 34 or DIN VDE0620-1)
Also, as far as I know, the double pole switch in AU is mandatory too. (AS/NZS 3105)
Seems pretty sketchy, thought they needed a further set of relays to deal with contacts arcing solid?
@@edc1569 That usually never happens or it shouldn't, the car will enable the contractors, as there is no high load the on the initial start the sparking should be minimal.
What's the reasoning of relay also on neutral?
@@edfx Neutral could be also LIVE if you rotate the plug, this is true for any county where the plug can be inserted 0 or 180 degrees. The approval for each region or country can be different but on some they require the following: when the device is turned OFF there should be no voltage coming out of the outlet contacts (neutral, live, earth).
@@edfx Total isolation. DC leakage is not funny
..
Look, mum! No RCD!
Which means it'll always work compared to all the public chargers that keep tripping.
@@fredfred2363 but then it should be possible to add auto-resetting devices to them. It will attempt switching the RCD on after a few minutes, a few times if necessary, until max failed attempts number is reached. Back a year ago, when I was working for Enelion, we were testing that, including high and low temperature environment testing - I'm not sure if it went into use in EVSEs though.
@@fredfred2363generally that’s down to the sparks not understanding they need to allow for discrimination so the internal protection has time to work before the RCBO trips out.
I hear their music is fire 🔥😂
@@computersales you mean Sparks? This town ain't big enough for both of us...
For those playing along at home, Aussie sockets are 240VAC, so a 32A socket can supply a max of 7680W.
How did Australia end up with its own plugs, you’d think they’d just use the British ones or pick the European standards!
@@edc1569 Euro plugs are used typically 50A+
@@AfifAhmad He's likely referring to schuko or the others used in EU in consumer applications. The high current / high power ones are the CEE plugs (search for IEC/EN 60309-2). They're available in 16, 32, 63 or 125A and either in single phase 230/250V (blue plug) or three phase 400V (red plug, either 4 pole without neutral or 5 pole with neutral and ground)
Always concerns me to see screw terminals that if they slackened off they could rotate and touch, especially on a portable device. Some heatshrink over the crimp terminals would help if they can't use locking terminals.
Bring your own RCD
@@TrickyNekro Any decent sparky would have its own RCD circuit. That's if you follow AS3000:2018 lol
@3:07 "The front fell off!"
Oh, that's cute: on the Chinese printed circuit, the hot wire is marked "火" (Huǒ), which means "fire"... 🙂
Keep that fire in the wire.
Tempting fate there...
@EEVblog It's actually a saying among electrical utility linesmen, to keep that fire in the wire.
@@EEVblog Their Chinese "火" means positive(P) and "零" means negetive(N)
I connected the "nothing" terminal to nothing and applied a lighter to the "fire" terminal, am I doing it right?
Dave, have you ever looked into the OpenEVSE project? It would be very interesting to hear your take on that design.
openevse is quite good. it has all the ground fault detection and an extra test wire around the common coil so it can cause a ground fault imbalance for testing.
Haven't really looked into it. Is it 32A capable?
@@EEVblog It is.
@@EEVblog yes. THey have kits for up to 48amps. Natually the logic board will drive anything to 80amps.
Here in North America, you'd have to have a relay on both sides as the 240v is center tap for 120 each side so both legs of power are hot with respect to ground.
This wouldn't work in the states or Japan/Europe. It's made assuming that only one side gets 'hot'
@@smalltime0Would work if you've got single phase supply, which would be the case in Europe or Japan for smaller homes (and in pretty much all of the UK).
Given that it only switches live, it would be interesting to know if it's capable of detecting when its plug is wired with live and neutral reversed, and if so, what it does.
Yup, this thing is a death trap!
@@smalltime0 Of course it would 'work', the issue is it sure wouldn't be safe.
Fire Rescue Victoria recently responded to a fire in Glen Waverley. Some muppet was using a charger like this with a travel power adaptor. Looks like they lost their garage and two vehicles. Luckily the EV battery didn't ignite. I can see a world where insurers over here won't pay out on claims when non RCM marked cables are used. Fires are real and 32A is a considerable constant current.
In a travel adapter, Darwin Award? 😂
One of the specifications for the SAE J1772 standard is the EVSE is to have a GFCI/RCD safety device. That unit there is 100% unsafe.
But SAE (including SAE J1772) is meaningless for Australia, it is North American standard (but not even for all of North America) and is applicable to US and Canada only, for Australia are applicable IEC standards, so because this is not according SAE not necessary mean is not legal (and safe???) according IEC (I don't know what IEC standard say about it).
You can't really make that verdict without detail expose of the intended purpose rationale behind the specification and its overlap with the real world operation of the unit. Yes, you can say it doesn't meet a "specified safety standard", which is a legal thing, where "unsafe", at least for me, is a practical operation thing. Exploitation settings also matter, is it in a bare concrete garage, or is it the garage of a hoarder, full of cardboard boxes willed with flammable stuff. If you know you skimped on it, and it doesn't meet certification, it could prove quite useful to know what negative consequences that might have, and avert almost all of it by being a tad educate-informed so you ACTUALLY pay attention when you handle high voltage stuff. I think those "safety standards" which makes average people a bit too much looking at it as an iphone cable, which can in turn delegate to many situations where those people get to apply the same low level of diligence when handing high voltage that doesn't have a certified "pacifier" mandated and stuck to its dangerous end...
@@mrlazda The only difference between the European version (I don't have the number handy) and SAE is the European is set up for 3 phase. The protocols are the same. They also open the ground connection in some countries.
One could say this EVSE is “possibly or likely unsafe in US, Canada and some of Mexico*” due to use of split phase 240 volts with both supply leads separated from ground by 120 volts. This unit only has a current transformer on one lead, thus it would not properly detect a ground fault in a split phase wired situation.
*Mexico has both 127 v / 220 v three-phase and 120 v / 240 v split phase regions.
@@wtmayhew It wouldn't detect a ground fault, period. The relative voltage of the supply lines to ground or their location on earth are irrelevant. Ground fault detection requires measuring the current going in both directions. As for how safe this thing is, that's a relative thing and a consequence of the environment in which it's used. All you can really say is that is doesn't meet the requirements of a specific standard. Clearly Dave used it without issue, and while that's is a very limited test that shows that it can be used without issue for at least some amount of time. What's the chance of an issue caused by some deficiency in it's design? If that is serious enough to cause concern, can this risk be mitigated? For example, can it be used on a branch circuit with a GFCI breaker at the panel to give you your ground fault protection?
Imagine spending $40k or more on an EV and then buying the cheapest, crappiest Temu charging cable for it
Cheap as in quality, not as in money. (they're all stupid expensive for what they are.)
This wasn’t Temu. He doesn’t name the retailer, but EVSEs like this are listed on Amazon in Australia.
This is an Amazon special for sure
I saw an EVSE which looks similar to this one listed for the US market on Amazon. It would be interesting to see the inside of the unit to see if it has a proper GFCI and relay switching on both supply leads. I doubt you’d find that out from the Amazon listing or any of the product reviews.
It would work, but it would be patently uncool to relay switch just one side of a split phase connection to the vehicle. I wouldn’t put it past a sketchy Chinese manufacturer to sidestep proper design. On the other hand there are excellent Chinese manufacturers, but it is difficult to tell if you’re getting excellent or sketchy from an Amazon listing. Unfortunately Chinese authorities allowing the sketchy manufacturers to persist damages the reputation of all Chinese manufacturers.
I saw an EVSE which looks similar to this one listed for the US market on Amazon. It would be interesting to see the inside of the unit to see if it has a proper GFCI and relay switching on both supply leads. I doubt you’d find that out from the Amazon listing or any of the product reviews.
It would work, but it would be patently uncool to relay switch just one side of a split phase connection to the vehicle. I wouldn’t put it past a sketchy Chinese manufacturer to sidestep proper design. On the other hand there are excellent Chinese manufacturers, but it is difficult to tell if you’re getting excellent or sketchy from an Amazon listing. Unfortunately Chinese authorities allowing the sketchy manufacturers to persist damages the reputation of all Chinese manufacturers.
Pretty sure GFCI/RCD protection in the EVSE itself is required in most civilized places.
Why? RCD is installed in front of the outlet. RCD is required in the installation, so all equipment connected is protected and all the wiring is protected. I live in a civilized country. Actually all european countries have RCD before fuses or a combined RCD / autofuse in the main distribution board.
@@robina.jensen6114 At least in the US, the standard outlet based RCD would trip regularly because EV's test ground by passing a small current through it. EVSE's integrate a CCID that triggers at ~20mA to avoid that nuisance tripping.
Not to mention the 6ma DC trip
@@robina.jensen6114No point using a faulty one tho hey and according to the foreigners I worked with they only had fuses at home in Poland
@@robina.jensen6114 Some of the world (North America) doesn't generally have whole home GFCI. I consider myself 'civilized'.
Copper-cladded aluminium is not new. For cost reasons it was commonly used in the Eastern Block. As inheritage from the Eastern Block we now also have it in Germany.. In East Germany it's know as AlCu or ALCU. To the best of my knowledge it's an ok material for conductors though the larger diameter may make cables a bit stiffer. Yet its still lighter than an equivalent copper cable. I've only ran once across it, in Hungary.
my understanding with copper clad aluminium cable is it doesn't hold up well under repeated flexing and twisting like 100% copper cable does. I replaced the wiring running to my range in my house that was aluminium wire and the strands cracked in several places when i coiled the wire to recycle it. it was only ~30 years old and being house wire wasn't flexed much.
@@JHulce What you describes matches common knowledge on aluminium. The cable was probably always a little brittle so it had to be treated more gently than pure copper. WHen you ripped the cable out you had no reason to handle the cable gently so it's not surprising that it broke. Eastern European (as in cold war era) electricians were used to dealing with CCA cables so they were aware of the special properties. Annoying during the installation but not safety problem that I'm aware off once properly installed.
I've had a few device leads which I think were made from aluminium. They didn't appear to be brittle but were relatively thick. I assume these must have been special alloys which reduce the brittleness.
Copper is a material in high demand. It's only a matter of price compared to aluminium and CCA will return.
For all of you who did not notice, this device has 0.75mm² ground wire, same as CP wire. While this is more than enough to carry communication, it is not enough to ground a 32A circuit. And this EVSE has no RCD inside, so the only protection you have is RCD somewhere else in the circuit. If your 32A socket is not RCD protected, and there is a short circuit, ground wire would catch fire.
If they were cutting cost, they could use thinner wire, for example 2.5mm², which can handle 32A short for a few second, enough to trip the breaker.
But 0.75mm² is not enough.
Cable stripped by mice biting off the outer insulation, and then the core could be CCA, you would need to cut a strand to see if it is shiny copper or bright aluminium under the copper. Only live switched, will still probably pass approval, but yes relies on the main RCD for protection, and I suspect that a short to the PE could blow the traces off the board before the main breaker or RCD will open, making it now unsafe, though, as the control chip likely will also be blown up, as it has connections each side of that trace, it will probably fail in the on state, as the relay will not be actuated to turn off.
I scraped back a strand, seems to be copper all the way.
@@EEVblog They sprang for real copper, so it at least is good enough to keep in the car as emergency charger, and if you find somebody stranded at a place with no battery, but with a charge outlet, cheap enough that it being lost is not a real issue then.
I think there are rules around DC leakage on RCDs in or with EVSEs as well. At the very least the RCD has to be able to detect AC imbalance in the presence of superimposed DC. Many upstream RCDs won't have that feature.
I don’t think it would make sense for these high power applications you’d have to make the cable too thick, maybe for the earth conductor 😂
@@edc1569 Aluminium is only slightly bigger than copper for same current, and of course with chinesium manufacture it will be exactly the same diameter for the supposed ratings.
I believe the designs that also switch the neutral are also made to work with 240v US “Level 2” charging where that neutral is actually a second hot 180° out of phase. The board on your older one is flexible enough for EVSEs sold in other markets while this one is only for single-phase power.
Also needed in 230 V Europe where the plug is often not keyed so it's a 50/50 which side is live or neutral.
@@Gameboygenius You’re right. I was just looking at a European IKEA-brand power strip someone donated to Goodwill and noted how the ground can connect in either orientation.
@Gameboygenius
The europe 32A plug is keyed.
@Juergen Yes, but this board can be used at lower amperage with other outlets too. It is very common for the same EVSE control board to be sold in various configurations, like the Gen2 from Clipper Creek (one of mine is 12A with a NEMA 5-15 and the other is 16A with a NEMA 14-30). There is also the potential to get it backwards when you hard wire.
@@Juergen_Miessmer That's true of course, but most home chargers in Europe will probably be either a wall mounted unit with a permanently connected EV plug, or a 16 A plugin charger using a 2 phase schuko plug. I think it's pretty rare to have a CEE socket in your garage unless you live on a farm or used it for power tools like an old drill press in your garage.
Definitely cheap-assing it- single pole switching and no RCD. Also lack of approvals marks.
But why are they measuring the line current ( and voltage) that is totally unnecessary, whearas RCD protection really is needed.
Yes, no approval marks either. They need the current for the energy display.
@@EEVblog ..don't need the display either if they want to really cheap-arse it
I believe the dual-pole switching is mostly to make the EVSE board flexible enough for 2-phase (so to speak) electricity, like US 240v Level 2 charging. Both conductors are hot (neither are neutral).
…and as @Gameboygenius pointed out to me in another thread, you’d also need to switch neutral for unpolarized applications like Japanese and European plug types.
@@emmettturner9452 to be fair in Europe you'd be using a commando plug for 32A They are polarised.
Hi Dave!
That charging cable could be bought online in China for CNY 258.2 (~AU$ 53.5) after discount, with free delivery. Of course it comes with Chinese type I mains plug, not AU mains plug.
Dual relays for both neutral and live are mandatory in Chinese standard (GB/T 18487.1). RCD is also mandatory. GB/T 20234.2 stated on the marker is Chinese standard equivalent to IEC 62196, which defines the type 2 connector on the vehicle side.
On the control board it says "单继电器底板" (single relay base-board) so the single relay design is intended. They may have a dual-relays version as well. Maybe you could talk to the company "宁点" (Ning-dian) with the cellphone number they left behind it.
The push-in connector J5 on control board says "温度" (Temperature) but left unconnected. Maybe there is an external temperature sensor not installed yet.
4:26 I've just recently purchased an MG5, so i've been looking into different chargers and the like. there's 3 things of concern with the cheapy design:
1. Not having the Neutral and Live isolated completely from the car can cause some cars to back feed DC into the house electrical supply. In the UK that's why a Type B RCD is used in EV installations. It was found that a car could leak DC back to the earth and cause shocks even with a standard type A or AC RCD because they wouldn't trip.
2. Not having them isolated also means installations with a split phase, say 120 - 0 - 120, could still feed the car with 120v even when the car is commanding the switch to isolate the supply.
3. Not having an RCD inboard of the charger is just dumb :P
I was a little concerned that the earth connectivity is via the pcb trace. I was brought up to have a longer earth lead so that it is the last to break off if the cable clamp fails. I am sure the lawyers will argue that electrical safety is not the manufacturers responsibility as long as its works out of the box without any 'wear and tear'.
I don't think Earth through PCB tracks or solder joints is ever permissable for safety Earths. It's only valid for purposes like EMI suppression where it doesn't matter so much if the track fuses.
Maybe they implemented the RCD functionality by checking for current returning on the ground line? Might be worth a try introducing a fault with a resistor to see if it trips.
@@NiHaoMike64😫
Definitely not legal in Europe. Both live and neutral must be treated as live (we have a mixture of delta and wye supplies), plus who knows how a house has been wired. Full earth monitoring is required, and it must include the most simplest 30mA RCD. Earth leakage or broken earth must be detected too.
The granny charger I got with my VW ID.3 has switched off with earth fault detection at old houses I've visited (which still don't have even a 300mA main RCD) when certain appliances have been switched on, like electric ovens or kettles, highlighting faults in those devices :)
1:36 i thought it was electric vehicle supply equipment
The scary part of no switched neutral is if someone didn’t follow code and/or didn’t have a qualified install and inspection and then swapped hot and neutral in the supply circuit.
But then the in-built safety switch would.... oh....
I was very glad my '21 Nissan LEAF SV included a factory 120/240 EVSE, as I was not looking forward to shopping and evaluating the alternatives. Plus, in San Diego, installing a hard-wired EVSE needs a permit, but a new 240V outlet doesn't, which sealed the deal for using the factory EVSE.
Why would you hard wire a level 2 charger!?
1:30. Copper coated aluminum is a nightmare. With PoE, it has the potential to cause a fire because of its lower current carrying capability.
I'm pretty sure the point of the earth monitoring in an EVSE is to disconnect all live conductors if there's a potential difference.
The Tesla AC adapter (the actual charger is in the car) has the same Type 2 connector in most markts. Those chargers a high quality in my experience.
Lack of GFCI/RCD aside, I would love to get a thermal reading off the insane bend in that neutral cable. That looks like roast chicken territory to me.
Yes, was wondering how hot it gets when working.
Technically it's an adapter, not a charger. The chargers are in the car. I'll show myself out. 😆
It's an EVSE, rather than the charger as you say. But he did say it around 1:30 in.
@sdgelectronics yep, but the title still has it 😉
@@BreeUSA People search for the term charger. Title turns up first in any keyword search. Bread and butter TH-camr stuff.
@EEVblog title can have charger in tags.... the title can say "charger"/EVSE.. I get the search issues, but it doesn't hurt to use the correct term, engineering "conciseness" and all. Lol
more precisely,it's a "charging cable". it's more than just an "adapter".
Does not look to be legal in EU. As much as I remember, in low power systems (like 32A is) PE core must be at least same size as live (phase) wire.
It is true. The protective earth should be equal to active wires.
that recent garage leaf fire was blamed on a bad portable evse with an adapter.
@@Bobo-ox7fj Why would the fire dept lie?
Sure looked like the car didn't burn from the pics I saw.
What aspect of it caused the problem?
@@EEVblog not sure that it is known at this time. they blamed the fact that it was a travel charger with an adapter, probably tesla to j1772?i thought most leafs can only AC charge at 3.3kw which is pretty slow compared to most EV's so thats also weird.
Articles blamed an adapter.. suggestion that it might have been a Japanese import Leaf, so possibly supplied with an OEM or replacement EVSE with Japanese plug
That cable doesn't comply with AS/NZS 3000, the earth conductor should be 1.5mm minimum
AS3000 doesn't cover appliances it ends at the wall outlet.
I doubt that applies to appliances.
This is an "In-cable control and protection device" (IC-CPD), defined by IEC 62752 (printed on the back). RCD feature is a must - should monitor both AC and DC faults. Also note that the ground wire is thinner than the other wires; this is typically not allowed. Don't buy.
I almost bought one of these.
However, I ended up buying a inChargeEx 7kW portable unit.
So much safer and it was only $400.
The PE is to small to carry the short cut current from a 6mm^2 current!
There should be a RCD included, the RCD must check the PE connection, while you switch on. IF there is no GND connection the charger should not start.
Does the PE really need to carry a fault current for very long?
@@edc1569 the MCB needs for fast action (magnetic trigger) a lot of current. A 32A MCB Type B needs a minimum of 160A to act fast. With 160A you get a fast acting PE (lost by burn out).
You will be able to charge your car. But without any safety!
I believe the ground conductor should be of equal thickness as phase/neutral.
Maybe fine in Australia, but in North America the single pole relay could be an issue. If it's used as a level 2 EVSE here, both of those wires will be hot to get you your 240VAC supply. Maybe nothing bad happens, but still seems undesirable. I know that my EVSE has a double pole contactor that disconnects both sides when not commanded to supply power to the car.
I don’t even care if it’s still complying with the safety standard or not. I would want it to switch both sides and have an RCD. That car connector is likely to have a lot water ingress, or just be left in puddles with the carelessness of people leaving it on the ground without the cover. The wall outlets may be DIY too, so the protections on there and correct wiring order. Well, you can only hope it’s correct.
The relay is marked “80A” suggesting some type of 80 amp switching capacity rating. It looks like it may be iffy even for 32 amps.
It amazes me that people buy cheap junk 'chargers' / plug in EVSE's (unless it's for a review video!). I picked up an unused genuine Audi one with both the 32A 'commando' plug cable and a 13A plug cable here in the UK for about the same amount. They're the same as the Porsche ones, just branded differently. They're a clever design where the changeable incoming cable to the configures the maximum charge current. One model can do 11kW / from 3 phase, 7 kw from 240V / 32A single phase, 3 kw from 240V 16A, and slightly less from 240V 13A, given the right incoming cable. Built in 30 mA AC and 6 ma DC RCD, and earth checking too.
BMW / Mini's chargers also have their output current configured by the changeable incoming cable in the same way, but they usually come with only one cable, at least here in the UK, and the other incoming cables for them are ridiculously expensive. Many of the Audi / Porsche ones seem to have originally been supplied with 2 incoming cables, making them considerably better value if you want to be able to use them at say 3.5 kW and 7kW.
That teardown has got me a bit worried. I'm going to check for neutral continuity on my Chinese made EV lead.
That blue cable bending radius gave me ED!
Hi, would you ever do a teardown of an AC to DC onboard charger? I guess they're hard to get because they are built into the car. You would have a lot of components and PCBs to examine...
I make the simplest possible EV chargers using DIN modules, but:
They all have RCD
They all have double isolation relays
Note that having lathing relays is a terrible design. If your internal power supply fails, there is no way to unlatch it, and the user might plug it in within the latched position. Effectively making a mode 1 charger.
I don't know if this is allowed in Germany?
- No RCD
- The PE cable is only 0.75mm² thin.
- Only one conductor is switched off.
Charger sitting in the car not in that electric box. Many thinks a little box is a charger. And misleading from business is a reason for that.
And fun fact: The blue cable is not neutral in Norway it's live 115-120V and brown is also live 115-120V. It powergrid is standard in Norway. So that box is dangerous in Norway becouse is voltage on that blue wire.
Whats wrong with aluminium/aluminum instead of copper?
Its a whole lot lighter then copper especially when you have a 380v 63a 3 phase cable with a neutral thats 25 meters long😉
Only downside is you do need to make sure its strain relieved properly and you roll it up in bigger loops then you would with copper.
I don't get why do you need it? Why can't you just plug the cable directly?
Also not impressed by the Earth connection being carried by the PCB - why do that ?
I wonder if it has short circuit protection.
Looks good for the price.
You can charge the car without that device. Two resistors and 220volt mains are all we need I guess
How does the components even justify the cost of the product?
Playing devil's advocate, but a downside to switching both live and neutral is the user may be blissfully unaware should the live switch fail short - hardly unknown in 'high' energy switching when the contacts weld together. Are the adapters required to detect and report this failure mode? I'd have thought that this may be a much more common fault, especially for a relay switch with much less power available for the switch operation than for a manual switch/breaker, than that of a reverse wired supply (I assume that in most countries 32A circuits will have polarized outlets/connectors).
How about a video on interesting accessories for oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers, DC benchtop/lab supplies, so on? There are lots of "ordinary" things people would know about, but what about the ones which are interesting for any reason?
I wonder if the PCB earth connection would be able to handle the required fault current? I don't see why both the in and out earths aren't attached to the same stud?
I think they might be relying on the earth current only being 10-30mA before the RCD trips.
$100 local currency is about the right price point for an emergency EVSE to keep in the trunk just in case of emergency... I would consider this one even without all the safety stuff inside because it wouldn't be my everyday charger, just something I kept in the trunk in case I ever found myself without the range to get to a real charger. I reality, it would probably never get used, but like a spare tire it's good to have just in case, and if it's got a better than even chance of not burning or melting during it's one and only use, those are good enough odds to bet $100 on for me...
I’m using a sub $100 charger because the $650 pos Wallbox stopped working even more than usual after two years. I think the only charger brand I would actually trust is charge point.
Better to buy a good used one. For not much more, I bought a used Audi branded EVSE with both 13 amp UK and 32 amp CEE plugs. German designed and European made with a decent RCD inside too.
I have one of those and most of the time it doesn't work, simply says not connected. Still, on a lucky day, it works just fine, starts charging instantly. Any idea what might by the issue? Why is it not triggering the charging cycle?
Double pole isolation switch for you!
I didn't see any RCM compliance marks on the back.
I really appreciate your efforts! Just a quick off-topic question: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (behave today finger ski upon boy assault summer exhaust beauty stereo over). What's the best way to send them to Binance?
Would it charge the T800
Certainly not legal for many reasons. No RCM mark is the main give-away.
Does anything get hot when charging? What is the box next to earth terminal?
3m05s ... The front fell off!
(it's an Aussie joke ... youtube it if you're curious)
I don't see any rectification electronics in this charger it looks like it outputs AC? This doesn't seem to be a rectifier aka a charger
No RCM compliance marks anywhere?
So Dave, doesn't your car mfg. have one of these? How much is that? Many EVs have one already provided in the trunk. Did yours?
He stated he had a lower amp one.
If the car contains the charger and logic, why does the cable need a relay to isolate it?
Because when there's a short between live and the car's body, the electronics inside the car cannot turn off the power. Also, you don't want the plug to be energised all the time. The touch-protection of those contacts is rather rudimentary, and it's used and stored outside where it's wet.
@@HenryLoenwind Does the car not connect to earth via the earth pin? Isn't there an RCD on the 32A outlet?
It is essentially an extension cord, aren't thoes are always energised?
It is unfortunate that the touch protection is poor such that all the extra complexity is required.
I expect it would be used in the same environment that the Aus 32A connector outlet is, it is a shame the car doesn't just use one of thoes instead.
Well that’s the point of it is, so when you’re standing around in the rain you don’t fry yourself.
It's a shame... Looks like they had some decent attention to detail on board layout, decent crimps, etc. But it was missing a couple of biggies...I wonder if they make a model that's a bit more expensive and has dual relays, etc
Also the same for a lidl unit EV charger lasted for a month and stopped working xD
I'm not an expert, but not switching neutral seems sketchy to me.
What if the guy that installed the outlet get it mixed up ?
If the car's electronics are good, they will refuse to initiate a charging session. Otherwise all will work fine but you'll have a live port in your driveway that's big enough to take small fingers.
@@HenryLoenwind That's what I'm worried about, the plug lying live on the ground outside.
Just how much worse are Aluminium cables?
For something like a winch, if I double the size of the conductor(while changing from copper to Alum) am I better off or worse off?
Aluminum wire is perfectly fine if you use a larger conductor size to make up for the higher resistance. Just make sure your terminals are rated for aluminum or you will have corrosion issues that can cause a fire. Be sure to use anti-oxidant compound if the terminals or code requires it. It doesn't hurt to use it even if it's not required too.
At the current conversion rate as of today, $160 AU is about $110 US. You get what you pay for. Don't buy cheap crap if you are plugging it into a rather expensive EV
So if this cable were sold for like $500, would it be OK to buy it? The problem is not the price. For this $100 price you should be able to buy a decent quality relay with a microcontroller and some plastic casing.
@@kralg A EV charger is a lot more than just some relays and a microcontroller, if you want something safe. But sure, if you want to risk your EV on a device like this, then do so. There is a reason it's recommended not to buy it :)
@@EsotericArctos You did not really read my comment, did you? I never said this charger should be bought, I only said it is not the price that makes this charger good or bad.
But for sure I cannot really see that "lot more" you are talking about.
High draw appliance meets cheap crap.......what could go wrong?
My wall charger has a cable attached to it that works perfectly.
I would probably simply call it "EV cable" for the mass but basically it's almost identical to a smart plug, calling it charger increases the prices for nothing as I've seens so called "chargers" sold for 3 grand or more in some cases. The missing RCD I don't think it's a big of an issue but it should be stated in the description, most countries (like mine) require to have at least one RCD that cover the whole house/bulding. I actually think that much protection is overkill and it's hindering the popularity of EVs dude to increase prices. My 9kw electric shower doesn't have a dedicated RCD, my 3kw electric heater doesn't have it too, why the EV charger should have it ? For the missing relay I think that if neutral is actually neutral it should not be an issue, If you think about it in the USA there is no protection in any socket and the plug design is much worse than a EV type2 where the contacts are well recessed inside the plug, you can literally touch live metal while plugging in any appliance, based on this logic each socket should have those protections.
see the leaf fire video from autoexpert? a dodgy charger was to blame
Actually, the disappointing thing is that you don't build something so simple yourself and/or modify another charger to suit your needs. Disappointing. Then such a charger can't be expensive enough.
Being a good engineer is knowing how to best use your time!
@@edc1569 ... and money ;)
Building these simple adapters is a question of a few minutes with available components and a thing of 1/2 day building that all from scratch.
There is "nothing" in there.
That's the great thing charging an EV is so simple.
I took available conponents and build my own wallbox and mobile box (adjustable power)
AU plug is polarized so I guess it can skimp by relying on the live and neutral always being the same.
EU plugs are 180° rotatable, so that Earth is always Earth, but Live and Neutral can be either, so in that case both would need relays.
The relays look terribly weak considering they would be carrying 32 A @ 7kW
EU plugs with earth can't be rotated, and 32A plugs are similar to Dave's plug.
Edit: type E plugs can't be rotated, type F can
Earthed schuko can only go in one way?
@@edc1569 In Hungary where I live, the earth connector on the socket has strips on opposite sides of the diameter, 90 degrees from the L and N pins. There is no E pin, it's on the sides.
All "EV chargers" are just voltage/curent measurement devices, eg. power meters with a disconnect relay, some fancy display and some payment methods. Why they are called chargers? They are just some boxes with wires...
but how well do they run on modified sine inverters
It has an incorrect CE marking too... Always a sign that corners have been cut.
It's not incorrect it's for Chinese export, quick way to tell is if you carry the C on to a full circle does it overlap the E 👍
CE is self certified until not, so it's really a low barrier to entry.
but as @SylerFox666 pointed out, thats the Chinese Export mark.
@@smalltime0 No such thing - ask a real Chinese manufacturer (I've worked with a few). This seems to be an internet myth that has gained too much traction in some areas, even in the EU (I have yet to come across any source that confirms it having official status). Also, the CE mark and the claimed Chinese Export mark both use characters that are part of a circle, not a regular font. If the C is extended to form a complete circle it exactly overlaps the curved back of the E in the CE mark and overlaps much of the E in the claimed Chinese Export mark. But the marking on this product as shown in the video is neither - perhaps they just used an Arial font or similar
why does this not get built into the car?!
Oh, my. The ground connection is horrible. The two ground wires are only connected via the PCB? I'd say that ground connection will blow before the circuit breaker when there's a short to ground...
If that was done properly, I'd say it'd be ok to use for countries where you can 110% rely on the polarity of your wall sockets. On those with reversible plugs and/or sloppy wiring, this thing's dangerous.
Why doesn't the car just have a mains socket on it?
Because that would limit the car to charge at the amps that one socket can take. Or you would need a bank of different sockets. Also, imagine how many different sockets you'd need for a car driven across Europe.
People just want to plug a car in and not have to worry about getting zapped in the rain or overload the supply.
Considering that these things ought to be designed out entirely (just plug into the wall, dial-a-charge on the car dash, why need a dongle, waste of material and money), the worst and cheapest is the best! Always has me shaking my head. What absolute muppet came up with this specc. Any car should accept AC and DC without a dongle. And should be able to charge off solar cells directly. Matter of national security, so people can charge on dodgy sources in an emergency. And actually - as a power engineer - no real added effort. I need a lot of control authority for CC/CV charging let alone more advanced algorithms anyways. All digitally controlled. Easy to include some MPPT and other features. Finally we get to the issue of burning down your garage. A proper circuit will trip the breaker before burning down. Dont need "smart" for that either. If it doesnt, it was installed by criminals.
$160 Australian dollars is $110.55 USd
Knightridery?
It’s not a charger. The charger is in the car. I like my Clipper Creek evse. Quality.
It makes me sick how eager people are to waste raw materials on poor quality unsafe products
160 Aussie dollar is roughly 100 USD or 100 Euro. That should be enoug to make a proper quality glorified extension cord.....
If you have this on an European plug, than you can have live instead of neutral going to the type 2 plug just by having the charger plugged in 🤔
It's called Mobile Connector :D
Cheap, Electric, high kW. Sounds like a perfect match... to burn down you car & house... :D
Its not a charger.
Not quite a 3 phase
Doesn't look IP66.
The review seemed a little harsh. We've all seen much worse...
The ultimate Aussie review: yeah nah! …