Could a P1351 be a False Code? (older GM trucks and vans)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024
- From our research, this P1351 "Ignition Control Module Circuit Voltage" ( we had a misidentified description, of the code definition on our scanner) can be set, simply, from ANYTHING that causes an extended or long crank time. So be careful with the flowchart on this one, as it only mentions the ignition module, related wiring or engine computer faults as the cause of this code. Low fuel pressure, injector issues, flooded conditions etc., causing extended cranking times, WILL also set this code! Special thanks to the owner (name unknown) who is a viewer here on this channel for giving us a chance to look at your truck.
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Some things the camera misses in a process like this. Many of you mentioned that I should have test driven the truck and you're not wrong! What I didn't mention is that my brother did, multiple times! And was not able to duplicate the customers complaint. So he asked me to verify the P1351 code, and the setting of this code, as the owner swapped out many parts in trying to fix this code! My primary focus was to not get bogged down on an intermittent problem (lengthy test drive, that was already done), but to prove the P1351 was a code that the owner SHOULD NOT have been chasing in the first place! I think from this stand point, we did good. Also remember this is a live shop with 20 cars waiting to come in the door and we weren't even there to look at this truck on this day. So this was sort of a fluke that we even filmed this one. Hope that makes sense. Thanks for watching! Hope you learned something even though we didn't fix it.
I Use A "FLUKE" ( good enough for NASA good enough for me)
Camera also misses wheter Danner brothers take the bacon donut. Thanks for the video, it shows that sometimes you have to know when to stop- doesnt matter if it is a donut, or an intermittent
@@tomastarvydas63 😂😂 I did NOT eat the bacon donut
@@ScannerDanner maaan, bacon donut with maple icing is the best donut I’ve ever tried. It’s way better than you might think. First time customer brought duck donuts that had one in there, I was like “wth is this!?!? BACON! That’s weird, definitely trying that!” Ever have a side of bacon with pancakes? Syrup got on the bacon and it was great right? Same thing!
the fuel injector (spider) on x vin motors has a regulator built into the back, they leak and fill the intake with a light coating of fuel often causing rapid crank and after long periods sitting they long crank.
your brothers deadhead test probably reseated the seal temporarily until it sits long enough to drop pressure and unseat hence the intermittent behavior.
I've got tears in my eyes from laughter. Caleb is killing it with the editing, as usual.
Nice! Sharing with Caleb
Paul, I had a similar problem with the P1351 code. I replaced all ignition system components, engine ran then again a no start condition after each replacement. After much expense (diagnostic equipment and parts), I realized I was getting a false code. It turned out that the temperature coolant system sensor was bad and it was flooding the engine out. I replaced the coolant temp sensor and it fixed the problem. I should have gotten a P0188 code, but I only received the P1351 code so I had never looked at the coolant temp sensor, but the computer thought the engine was cold and dumped fuel into the injectors flooding them out. Expensive lesson learned!
False codes can really really mess you up, especially when the manufacturer flow chart on that code is WRONG! Thanks for sharing and confirming with absolute certainty that what we were saying was correct about this code.
Looking at fuel trims and realizing its staying on open loop should of took you towards the right direction walt
Thanks for sharing this information Sir. Mine was exactly the same thing engine coolant temperature sensor n not the icm. Crank No start .
I'm going to try this! Been down this diagnostic rabbit hole and intermittent running problems with this code for over a year. Noticed my temp gauge is reading very low but I still have heat and was thinking the thermostat was sticking sometimes. Thermostat isn't that old though. I'll report back if it ends up being my issue as well.
The "banter" between you and your brother makes these videos even better and of course, the editing is superb.
nice! love working with my family, and it is cool that you guys get to be part of it was us, thank you!
What’s up Paul! Been following and subscribing premium for a while. Studying the book as well. You put me on a steady path my friend. Started my own business and I’m doing well! Just wanted to let you know your teaching is helping tons of diagnosticians! Thanks for everything and God Bless you and yours!
That's awesome and props to you for your hard work in making it happen! Thank you for sharing this with me
@@ScannerDanner I did too, however I mostly do it on my free time, making progress little by little, hope to purchase premium soon enough. Thank you Danner!.
@@fernando13e thank you my friend! Learning at your own pace and when you can, is a good thing too right?
@@ScannerDanner Sure it is, you're like the best mentor I've ever had for this, covid pandemic has been tough so starting your own business is pretty much the route I chose to deal with it. Thank you again!.
@Dave Launchbury ?
Come for the education... stay for the entertainment. Or maybe it's the other way around.
At any rate Caleb is awesome at what he is doing, and the Danner brother's are as well.
You guys put the "real" in reality "tv".
Thank you!
what a great comment! Just read it to Caleb
LOL! @ 12:00 "We're just going to do a few measurements for Danner, and we're just going to walk away from this." LOL! Famous last words.
right? haha I totally ScannerDannered that one
@@ScannerDanner Lol. no worries... we know we all don't like to give up, it's just not economical most of the time.
LOL - I was just going to type the same comment!
Lol, I posted this video on the forum this morning to hopefully help someone. Laughed all the way to work listening to Paul and Danner argue over the A/C coupling test 🤣
lol nice! Hopefully we have the forum fixed soon. Luke was working with GoDaddy and Joomla last night. He has a lot on his plate right now. Thank you Noah!
@@ScannerDanner all things in time
When I want mystery, intrigue and suspense. Scanner Danner is my fix.
😂love this
Hey Paul, GM dealer tech here, those vehicles were famous for fueling issues. Not saying that it's the solution, but I've had intermittent issues with long crank and it's often sticking injectors on hard turn under acceleration. Again, something to look at, don't hang me if I'm wrong on an intermittent.
I actually have a 1998 chevy GMT-400 Vortec 5.7 that is doing the exact same thing as the guy said. It would idle just fine while sitting. While driving at normal speeds it was fine at 9 miles but If you push the gas to rev the engine (up a hill or a need for speed), it literally shuts the truck down like someone turned the key off. If you keep your foot in it, it will stay running. It's like when you heat it up, it shuts down momentarily. The weird thing is, it starts itself after a nice pause. I have changed a lot of things on it to narrow down a few things. I did change the crank and cam sensors and cap/rotor with no luck after I had a complete no start. I got the same code but I erased the codes before changing the sensors. it still does it. I'm looking into a couple ideas to pin point the issue. To me it acts like a fuel issue or a wire issue. I find it odd that it will shut down, but will come back to life on its own. My boyfriend had an issue with his truck just dying and not wanting to restart, but then it would. I told him it was a wire issue. He couldn't figure it out so while I was under the hood, I told him to crank it while I wiggled a couple wires and found the issue. in his truck it was the wire for the cap and rotor. there was no casing left on it and it was arcing out. The wires on my truck look fine as we went through everyone except all the ground wires. I did notice the return line that comes out of the fuel vapor canister is completely broke off and hanging by the front left tire. I'm not convinced that is the issue. Usually that leaves me to believe a wire problem, system is flooded, or starving for fuel. If it was any major sensor, it would throw a code other than the P1351. When you heat the motor up (really heat it up) it will shut down everytime. When I find the problem, I will post on here.
one other thing I forgot to mention, right before it would shut down, it would cut out....when I would pump the gas it would try to pick up but just stalled. That was the first time it happened for me 4 times in a row. after replacing several parts, He drove it 9 miles and when he "opened it up to see what it had up a big hill," as soon as he let off the gas, it stalled but it started itself right back up after a few seconds. He said if he stayed on the gas and "both footed it, it was fine. He got it in the drive and got out to open garage door while it was idling, it shut down. It started right back up fine after. I ran the scanner and the only code showing was the stupid P1351. plugs/wires/coil was changed initially along with the sensors. the plugs were really crappy looking (this was done between the first time it happened and the second time). I did show negatives on my banks. This sure is a lesson to figure out.
Im here because I got the code on a 98 GMC Sierra 1500-installed new Ignition Module and coil after she sat in the weeds for long time(yes fuel tank fuel pump and fuel lines and working my way to the brake lines presently) she ran great until I parked her IN THE RAIN with hood open as I charged the battery over night-next day she started and quickly stalled-code 1351-by accident I ordered TWO Ignition Modules from different companies sooo I had one on hand and plugged it in and she fired right up and purrs like a kitty🙂at the start of your video you said the guy thought it mightve had sometjing to do with the rain and I concur🙂
Hysterical! Thanks for bringing us along. That was entertaining.
That sinusoid he was seeing could have been because of undersampling on the scope of graphing DVM: One is supposed to measure at least twice as fast as the frequency you're looking at (Nyquist theorem). If you sample slower, you get to see all sorts of effects that aren't there. It is called "Aliasing".
I used a flow chart for diagnosis one time about 20+ years ago. Quickly learned to study the schematic and come up with my own diagnostic approach to fix the car.
I'm not a flow chart monkey but I've found useful information and gotten ideas reading through them.
This applies to older vehicles but I'll throw it out there anyway because they were both stall issues followed by long crank times. One was diesel and the other was gas and they both ran fine until they didn't. In both cases I hooked a vacuum gage into the suction side of the fuel pump and watched it while driving, the vacuum gage would start to rise and then just before it quit the gage would suddenly peg out. If you waited a bit it would start back up and run ok for a while then do the same thing. Long story short the problem was the pickup screen in the tank was clogging up and starving fuel from the suction side of the pump. On the gas burner it was rust causing the problem and on the diesel it was water in the tank.
Caleb/Danner/Paul,
Great video and analysis - thank you!
I hope you can re-connect with the customer and find the solution/fix.
Paul (in MA)
Caleb is a genius; he can edit anything SD and Danner dish out 😆.
Thanks for sharing SD, this one is like a test for all of us especially it being a GM product, we all have gone through different experiences while fixing GM's & they really teach the hard way😉
Special Thanks to James Danner😎 & Caleb Danner👍
Stay Safe Guy's❤
Great banter from the Danner family! Nice demo looking at the square wave of when not to use ac coupling which is just a high pass filter, taking out some of the low frequencies and destroying the waveform shape! Keep sharing the skills.
Interesting. I would like to see the fix and what is the actual problem.
Greetings from Romania. GOLD!
I may not have the opportunity, but I will try to update you guys
i think this code will sit regardless of any bad part as long as it does long crank. thanks a lot for the information you just gave us it's really awesome . great man
Agree 100% and the internet is full of people complaining on not being able to fix this code by following manufacturer recommended procedures.
@@ScannerDanner don't listen to any one your the master . i love watching your video keep the great work
My '97 Sierra 5.7 has the exact same issues (225k miles). Started stalling at low RPM one day leaving me coasting around a long off-ramp with no power steering or brakes. Fun! Reset the computer and problem went away. A month later, the intermittent crank no-start after it rains thing started happening. Sometimes I'd come back the next day and it would fire right up. Happened again a few days ago. I installed a new cap and rotor (which were new 25k miles ago but horribly corroded) and it started right up. For what it's worth, I upgraded to next generation spider injectors from the '99-2000 models at 200k miles when I bought the truck, as well as replacing the rusty fuel tank, pump, filter, fuel pressure regulator, and gaskets. Tested voltages everywhere and they were perfect and the truck ran great for a couple years until I started having the same issues as your customer. At this point, I honestly think that the corroded cap and rotor were my issue, and that really I just needed a tune up. I'll replace the coolant temp sensor if the issue presents itself again. I did BTW get the 1351 code when it was refusing to start but thought it was a symptom, not a cause. Thanks for proving that here.
the P1351 code on these GMs is a symptom and most of the time not the cause. Anything that causes a longer than normal crank time will set this code on these
i ran in circles chasing this on a 97 with similar intermittent drivability concerns, was 3rd person to look at it. I asked if customer has he done any repairs, customer replaced fuel pump, Fuel pump relay, injector then ignition switch then finally a PCM. Customer was ready to throw on a carb and a manual trans from TBI truck at this point. Long story short I believe the Fuel pump relay contacts fit too loose heated up and cause similar intermittent drivability concerns, wired fuel pump direct and drivability concerns went away. threw a junkyard fuse box in to fix problem, could have been another circuit in fuse box but i doubt it. cant be certain it is same problem you had as my fuel trims didn't look rich. whenever i see rich trims i suspect stuck injectors or failed diaphragm on pressure regulator, have never seen regulator be an intermittent fault. thanks for makin these vids , I enjoy your books.
Thanks for sharing! Confirming again that this code is b.s. and the flow chart is 100% absolutely wrong (incomplete)
Had something similar in a gm product, though it was a gdi system, turned out to be an intermittently sticking injector, only when hot, and sticking both ways, very erratic. Just lucky to find it
Back in 81 I had a 4-6-8 Cadillac with an intermittent stall problem. I spent about 30 hours chasing the problem and could never get it to stall or find a problem. Finally we called Cadillac engineering and they said just replace the fuel pump relay. That took care of the problem. I was paid 1 hour for diagnostic time and 3/10 for changing the relay! (I lost almost a weeks pay on that car!) At least at the dealerships we had access to the engineers and were familiar with most weird problems.
My 1996 Savana L30 dtc po1351 turned out to be Starter Relay arcing pin 30 to pin 86. The relay was also puffy in appearance. Know one wants to know how long for me to find this, because I'm slow. lol.....New Relay installed, vehicle driven 5 days without incident. Thanks Scanner Danner for your videos.
Nice production and content guys. Good to see the return of the Green Man. Looking forward to the next one.
Personal experience here. Had a 4.3 vortec platform. It had a rough running condition where it would nearly die upon closed loop. It had codes for a lean condition. The O2 sensor harness ran along the back of the engine, and oil was wicking down the harness from the oil pressure sending unit. It would saturate the O2 sensor and caused repeated failures of the O2 sensor after a few thousand miles of it being replaced. The saturated O2 sensor was reading a false lean condition and flooding the engine with fuel, thus creating a vicious self-perpetuating cycle. In the hands of another, they'd see the code and assume a true lean condition and focus on a vaccum leak, low fuel issue, etc. DTC's are great in the hands of technicians whom know that they're a tool and a guide. They're not infallible. I detest when I see a generic question about a car, and there's always that person "probably an o2 sensor/fuel pump/throttle body."
My suggestion would be to test drive the truck for some time with the scanner recording data. Might act up when loading the engine and not when on idle.
My thoughts..
We did my friend, you just didn't see the test drives that both my brother and I did at separate times. Thanks! Great suggestion of course.
I had a buddy hook up a scanner recorder and drive my truck back and forth to work for four days before it finally acted up and caught it.
I am very sad that you did not find the fault of the car. You are a good and virtuous person that is why success always kisses your feet. And lots of love and affection for your family. And Caleb support you very well.
Thank you my friend. I'm sorry we didn't fix it as well.
Please don't embarrass us sir. This happens sometimes. You are a very good mechanic and teacher. Our prayers are always with you.
Spider injection?
recommend replacing the char can. while your at it along with the purge and vent
Not one has no sin we are all works in progress forgiveness here is the better part of valor all of us struggle with the ways of the world but can still be saved through faith and only faith in the Lord not our works! I love scanner danner and all people but not one of us is with out sin. That's why we need our lord a savior and why he came for us!
For sure, and that rebuke from a fellow brother should have been done in private as the scriptures teach us. It would have been well received in that context.
when Danner kept crankin I was like cryin with laughter, that's just the kind of sarcasm I love and do all the time, and the fits of green, love it love it love it. Peace!!
😂😂 I know I was like, what the hell are you doing Danner?
Just had a RANGE ROVER 3.5 V8 EFI 1988 that behaved strangely sometimes.
Many different have looked at it and replaced parts.
Found out it was the brake booster that was the problem. I disconnected from this and
the car started perfectly every time and drive perfectly. :)
I had few times where fuel pressure regulator causing fuel pressure issue, and as soon as I crimped the return line, it fixed the issue. And one car I remember it ran well and good for few months before it started showing same issue with fuel pressure and trims. Eventually replacing regulator solved the issue.
This is the solution. Pressure bleeding down causes long crank. FPR.
Man This spider injector set up where problems. Failing Pressure Regulators under the intake. Those CPI injectors need specific pressure to work at all!
Then those flat GM dis caps. We would only install Factory GM parts. The Distributor assemblies where a problem also. Gear would wear to knife edge!
As that generation got some age on it “we/I” would “re ground” everything.
Not to mention the problems with aftermarket fuel pumps. Oh the fun.
99 Tahoe 5.7 almost identical symptoms and same code. Original issue was a no start- plugged fuel filter got it running, Fuel PSI test was good after.
Weeks later, would start and die and throw the 1351 code, and not restart-it would try, but not take. No spark this time. New coil and ignition module got it running.
A few weeks later- start & die. Sometimes it would try but not start sometimes would just crank- setting the code each time. Clearing the code would not allow it to restart, but removing the negative battery cable and holding it to the positive cable for 20 seconds, re-attach and fire right up and be normal for 5-7 days. Rinse and repeat- no start, battery cable routine it will start every time. I did get a custom tuned VCM as I had changed the camshaft 4 years ago when I built the engine. Hoping maybe it was something with it but still shows up. Trucks runs better with the tuned VCM but the problem start/die still occurs. Pulling my hair out! I did do actual resistance and voltage drop tests on all wires mentioned in the factory manual for this code and all checks well. This video gave me ideas to check the fuel pump current draw and starter draw.
Whoever cures this mess will be a hero for sure!
One other thing I noticed- after changing the coil & module, to see If it gave me spark- which it did, I thought the spark looked weak- a little orange rather than a nice sharp blue spark. Ignition module was purchased at AutoZone Thoughts?
When it doesn't start, do your checks on the coil and module! You'll find your issue. Follow some of the test light control circuit tests I show on ignition coils.
Awesome video! 🔥 I just picked up your book! I wish I had know about your classes first before i went to universal technical institute. Thank you and Caleb and your brother for everything you guys do! Keep rocking! 💪🔥💪
Thanks so much! I look forward to hearing from you more in the comments of the SDP videos.
On this truck I have questions/comments. Isn’t this the injector spider set up. Looked like it to me but I may have missed it. If it is a spider, and he’s been throwing chinesium parts at this thing, then it’s very likely it was or is an injector issue BUT my comment on it is actually seeing the fuel lines moving like that with vacuum drop and raise would tell me there’s a problem with the install. I worked on a ton of these trucks back when I had hair and never saw the spider fuel block move.
There’s no end to it though, you’d have to go back over everything that’s been done to it and check for proper install AND quality parts. You don’t have much choice on quality parts with these older chevys though, I still own a couple and part situation is not good.
As always, enjoying the content! Editing cracks me up on occasion and the hulk moment was one of those occasions. Keep up the good work
BLEEP! 🤣🤣🤣 CLASSIC! That should fourth now be the official SD censoring sound used on all the videos 😆😆 Caleb killing it as usual with the editing. And as always another great video by the whole Danner family. Keep em coming guys, it never gets old.
I agree! We will be using that more, I'm certain. Thanks for the comment and for your kinds words. Made my morning
Danners beard is getting to wizard status!
Haha sharing with him!
The "bleep" edit is the best!🤣🤣 great video like always !
Caleb had fun with that one
I had this same problem on my 1998 k1500. I even watched this video to look for a fix.
The problem is due to bad ground connections. I cleaned/sanded/replaced every ground cable and the problem has not come back. You have to clean/replace all of the grounds to ensure the problem is fixed as I did half of them and the bug did not go away. I got the repair manual and found/cleaned every single ground (they were are all rusty/dirty after 20+ years anyways) and that will probably fix the code if your truck runs normally when it does crank
Where can I find the locations of all my ground wires on 1999 GMC SUBURBAN C1500 Vortec 5.7?
Adding an update to this post as the illusive p1351 returned on my k1500 earlier this month and this time my symptoms matched this truck exactly. It was not the module, ecm, grounds, or pump. It was the ICM connector. The ground rusted up inside the connector and was causing the truck to die when it warmed up. Any time there is a weak spark on the ignition system this code will likely set and cause the truck to shut off
Great content! You could only improve it by including clips from Red & Green from yesteryear in that sometimes duct tape an a maul are the proper tools! ;)
That said, P1351 in GM/ Ford, although relatively common, are very enigmatic at best! I I'm reminded of the phantom code 32 EGR code from Pre OBD2 days on Chevy/ GMC trucks with 4L60 transmissions..... which turned out to be a faulty transmission TCC solenoid! I also remember the wonky distributor pick up coils that drove otherwise very competent driveability technicians to consider the ministry back in those days!
I see that this video is quite old, but had to chime in. The argument you and you bearded Bro had regarding a sine wave as opposed to a 5V square wave pattern has to do with manufacturers encoding engineering into their monitoring of EEC/ OBD2 functions. These functions are out of reach for all but a few of us peons down here in the repair bays.
Chasing fuel correction for the 1351 usually is a natural snipe hunting diversion due to symptoms. You were looking right at a big clue as to the problem with the internet special ignition parts. I get cars in all the time from both local and hundreds of miles away that have been to as many as 5-6 repair facilities including dealers. These customers just wanted to get their vehicles fixed. I wonder if you guys ever heard about a final solution for this truck, short of getting rid of it.
@ 21:52 Caleb, you are a genius! Your subtleties are funny as all get out!
This video just triggered a few P1351's
Seriously, I love the diagnosis process.
🤣🤣 for sure! Thanks my friend
21:52 I thought I was going to see the Hulk busting out. Very funny but still learned a lot from this vid. Cheerz
Paul and James Danner sometimes you got to drive it like you own it to get to the problem.
I had one last week. Fuel Pressure a little low. Acting like that on the way home.Intermittent But I had lean codes. Fuel pressure was hanging around 45 psi. I pinched off the return line & got 75. Fuel pressure regulator on the CPI was leaking & I found the Upper intake gasket popped out in the back corner under the Fuel lines. I’ve never seen that. I didn’t smoke it because it’s a pain on them. Regulator & upper intake. Made it run real good.
I scoped the Fuel pump, with a amp probe it was beautiful. I tried to get the fuel pressure to drop off under load. Couldn’t.
I have the same exact deal. After a two hour drive it begins to lose fuel, and I must begin to feather the air supply or motor completely bogs. This grows worse until I’m at 10 mph. If I pull over and shut off for 2-3 minutes it clears up for another few miles. Not temp dependent, nor altitude because happens up or down the 7500’ altitude I live at. It is no longer clearing up as well with short shut off. Have six codes, both cats inefficient, both o2 sensors, misfire cylinder 4, and p1351. It is starving for fuel for sure. Pump replaced 1 year ago, ignition module, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, distributer, crank sensor, and fuel filter(or cam sensor I forget).
Damn imagine trying to pass emissions and all u have to deal with this stupid code.
right?
I know right🤣run that exemption real quick😎
@@PhillyDee215 even the exemption can't be discussed with self lol
That’s me right now with this code intermittent on a 96 Sierra 5.7
The problem is the fuel pressure regulator is ruptured and the spider injectors need to be replaced while you’re in there. Just fixed my 1351 ghost code I’ve had for over 2 years. Cost me $760 parts and labor. New multiport fuel injection is only $300 for the part. You’re welcome!
from memory fuel trim numbers were normal so a ruptured regulator is not the cause on this one, but certainly anything that causes a long crank time can set this code, as you found out too
I started watching for the learning experience.......stayed for the banter between the brothers🤣. This is an interesting one for sure. Are those engines known for injector issues Paul? I'm leaning towards injector issue if it's only effecting one bank and not both.
So funny to see Paul turn green.
Makes my brain hurt and my wallet swells from anticipation of chucking parts at it….I know, I know, don’t be a parts changer.
But when something is so intermittent, man it’s hard. Gotta watch ScannerDanner videos to help fight the urge.
Thank you I realized when I first start truck in morning long crank then starts but sets 1351 code.
Great Video Mr. Danner thank you for the process how to diagnose this issue .
Ive seen a shorted low 02 sensor cause the same issue, the pcm will dump fuel on that bank cause it to run rough, flood itself out, truck stalls or stumbles so bad that the truck goes back into open loop, pcm ignores o2 , due to being an older obd2 it wasn't that smart, just a suggestion maybee help something click in your head, love the videos, the fuel pressure loss could be a seperate problem caused by quality of parts swap
So many variables! And you guys are on it 100% and this is exactly why I walked away at this time. Thanks for sharing!
great video as usual Paul ....you and Danner need to do a video together ....
I had a pitched crankshaft sensor wire that did the same thing. Between the trans and the violent lines
I was thinking the same thing. Dead heading the pump reseated the injector. Once you go for a ride it gets unseated again. When he said it happened while driving, he may not have meant at speed. I "drive" my truck to work, during that drive, i have to stop at lights.
Good point! I do NOT know when exactly it "shut-down" on him. If it was at idle, and not at speed as you mentioned, then this can absolutely put us back toward the injector
@@ScannerDanner I betcha one of those spark plugs look a whole lot different than the rest. The owner likely changed them since he changed the rest of the ignition system and 7 of them should be clean.
At 30:12 you said there is no reason to check power and ground at a coil that is functioning. Two months ago i had a v8 mid 2000s Cadillac with the cartridge coils on both banks. Car ran like crap. I saw visible good spark from every individual coil. Autologic tech service said check the ground at the cartridges. I had 6volts on the ground yet saw spark and car ran with misfires of course. So, im not so sure you can rule out power and ground even if you see spark and car runs
You're not wrong on that front. I should have been more clear as to why I didn't feel the need, and it was because we now knew this code setting was false. So from that standpoint is what I meant. Thanks!
My 05 Silverado with spider injection haf an issue where it was running like crap sometimes stall out, and sometimes ran good, turned out to be bad distributor, I could turn the rotor like 20 to 30 degrees... After changing the injectors and all the gaskets and gaskets on intake manifold.
Had several distributors replaced with wiped out upper bushings in them, I forgot all about that back then common problem with GM.
Just to throw in my 2 cents, have a 98 5.7 litre 90k miles, replaced everything, and started getting that p1351 code, every once and a while it would take a couple seconds extra of crank and the code would come on. Once it started ran perfect, dealt with it for 2 years, Never threw the code before the parts replacements. Turned out to be the coil! code came up on the accel and auto zone coils i first tried. Replaced it with an OEM Ac Delco coil and that solved the problem, looks to be very picky on coil voltages
Anything that causes an extended crank on this system will flag this code. That was the most important take away for anyone trying to troubleshoot this. Agree?
"I'm just doing two electrical tests and walking away." And fuel pressure gauge. And starter current.
🤣🤣 can't help myself sometimes
Enjoy your videos but, I must say as a basic DIYer, I got lost on this one. Hope there's a follow up with a fix in the future.
here is your take away my friend, if you ever get one of these, setting this code, remember that anything that causes a long crank time will set this code!! So don't get bogged down in the specifics of the causes of this code, because all of the service information is wrong on it, and what else can actually cause it
I don't think that injector body should be moving up and down. It's usually snapped into a bracket that bolts to the floor of the intake. That would be something to investigate.
Crazy, I have P1351 after changing the fuel pump on 2000 gm Safari 4.3. Thanks for figuring out it's from long crank! moisture/heavy rain has been an issue with no start in the past as well. P1351 is my new code, I've been trying to get running for 3 months. Even 'Tyler' mod on ur premium site gave me some advice but still no luck. This vid was Great for me, thanks for doing it even though you felt like it was a waste it wasn't. Also the Mitchel flow chart and the GM service manual flow chart are different on steps 15-17 Mitchel says change ICM and VCM, GM say change ICM and clear codes. I also had 2.6V AC on that certain step you guy were arguing about. Anyway chasing that P1351 didn't help, thanks for letting me know I'm wasting my time.
Tyler is the man, and without first hand knowledge (which i didn't have either, before this case study), I wouldn't have been able to help much beyond what the flow chart indicated. I'm so glad this helped you and thanks for being part of my great community!
I too have had the p1351 code on my GMC Sierra. Finding this video helped me to find that my long crank was due to a weak pump not holding pressure. The pump was not that old. Key on/engine off, fuel would build to 40-42 psi. Key off the pressure dropped immediately. Changed pump, issue gone. Hope this may be your issue as well. I chased this code for too long.
Take a shot everytime danner says "you know what I mean"
🤣🤣 yes! We'll be drunk by the end of the video
When will the you activate be available from AES wave
I will most certainly announce it when I know, but it should be soon! I saw the prototype!
You can use a fused jumper wire instead.
Jump load side pin 30 to 87. Pretty much does the same thing
@@mikesabin8568 don't jump the wrong pins :-) and this tool does so much more
@@ScannerDanner What are they redesigning on it? I'm on the email wait list for this tool and can't wait to get one.
the ignition modules on those are known to get "stupid" with high temperatures when old, aftermarket modules are complete trash. many people warp the heatsink and module from over-torquing the screws. if either are bent the heat transfer is poor and the module overheats into thermal shutdown and breakdown.
I know this is an old video, so maybe tossing this into the void…
Crank position sensor has symptoms the owner was having issues with. I’ve had this head scratcher on many 90’s era Jeeps, and mechanics tell me those never go bad…I had three vehicles in one year all with slightly similar symptoms of, crank no start, intermittent start then stall while driving ect. If the P code is leading you down rabbit holes with all of these symptoms…
Issues Starting the Vehicle.
Intermittent Stalling.
Check Engine Light Comes On.
Uneven Acceleration.
Engine Misfires or Vibrates.
Rough Idle and/or Vibrating Engine.
Reduced Gas Mileage.
The CKP is a sneaky little sensor that gets overlooked for more obvious fuel/spark related issues.
For sure! I have quite a few crank sensor videos on Chrysler/ Jeep systems with some even setting false ignition coil codes, with coils dropping out.
Nice job team Danner, thanks for share your work
You have worked very hard to find the fault of this car. I think you should have tested the car once. You are our teacher. You are honorable to us. Because you do not have arrogance and pride inside you.
Paul youre such an amazing auto tech love your in depth videos. What do you attribute this to @15:25 ? I have a 96 express that has just about everything brand new and still doesnt start. I cant find the fuel pressure specs for this engine, It has the upgraded fuel injectors from CPI to MPFI. I am showing key on engine off 58psi and right away drops 4-5psi to about 52PSI. Is this not enough fuel pressure to run this engine?
This engine has new
Fuel filter
New ecm(reman)
New mass airflow
New crank sensor
New distributor
New timing chain
New ICM
New Coil
New spider MPFI
New upper intake
New lower manifold gaskets
New dpark plug wires
Only thing I havent changed are spark plugs they are about three years old and fuel pump.
These parts were not thrown at it, it was from a different issue.
The engine was running perfect I came to a stop sign and it cut off and would not re start. I do have spark, the distributor was re timed with piston #1 at TDC, timing chain cover lined up with mark on damper. I lined up the dimple by the distributor gear to the line on the shaft of the distributor. The rotor, when distributor fell into place, was point towards cylinder number 1 and pointed towards were the distributor housing bends to turn into a flat edge. Has excellent spark. Iam out of ideas and stumped…dont want to waste money on a pump if i dont need it. Ive read these engines need 60psi and above? Thank you in advance if u are able to respond!
96 express 1500 5.0 220,000 miles no oil burning excellent power
If i remember right the cpi system was the spider like black hoses in the intake? Ran across one of those a couple of times back in the days... What fixed it was doing an injector clean with the gm cleaner with a shop air pressurised container... 1 litre of fuel for 30ml of cleaner... i used to put 90ml insted and ran it two times... and the regulator inside was notorious to be leaking.... but that was like 15 years ago...
this was a new fuel injection assembly from what I was told
@@ScannerDanner missed that one Paul... But im shure you remember the problems these systems had!
@@erikkirby1 for sure! thanks my friend
My experience with stuck ejector was white smoke out exhaust.
The reason the flow chart says to switch to AC on the DVOM to check the signal is so you get an average of the on and off voltage.
If you have the specified AC voltage, the signal is good basically.
@@2secondslater yes sir, written before scopes were suggested
Hey Scanner, I still use this method when I am too lazy to get the scope out, that might be showing my age a bit
you brothers crack me up!.... thanks
me too! Love him to death
@ Paul is this part 1 part 2 latest one where you find 5v short on wiring harness. Shorted onto stud caused fault. Well done if you stuck with fault found it. Please advise if it was your brother Dan also worked on it.
No, this was from a case study we did two years ago (link in description). Thanks!
@@ScannerDanner thanks Paul it's 2005 in Capetown. Love your guides videos. I try keep my old cars running.
Isn't that a GM Spider Injection? if so the body is not 100% fastened to the manifold and has a bit of movement for alignment purposes.
12:54 I hate to be that way (I own that Tool) but the ATD Tools 5614 (not a sponsor) has way more options for less.
Oh my gosh! So hilarious with Danners “bleeps.” Lol😅
Know when to walk away & know when to run...
know when to hold em, know when to fold them 😉
you never count your money, when your at the dealership counter...
sounds like there could be an spider injection issue also, maybe bad pressure regulator diaphragm dumping into the intake. seems to me it would whack out the drivers bank first and holes 5 and 7 the worst, the regulator leaks on the passenger side and the intake runners go across to opposite side cylinders.
only thing I can think of with the pressure dropping hard and Danner deadheading it for a temporary fix. I'm sure you'd have noticed a sticking/flooding injector if that was it :)
Possibly, but with this injection unit being new (and who know where get got it from) and intermittent sticking open injector is plausible
Love you keep up the good work and God bless you and your family
Check cat on each bank for different colors ,I had one spider injector dumping fuel cooking catalytic on one bank only.' Extended crank and misfire. Also the top of the fuel pipes have a seal and should not move around.
I was hoping you'd drive it around to see if you could recreate the problem. Was thinking bad injector or stuck throttle but if the throttle was stuck it would have died in idle for you guys.
Check out my pinned comment. Thanks!
I know on a 99 suburban with the spider injectors it takes minimum 51 psi if the cam signal is funky it will bank fire and kill the fuel pressure quick well below 50 psi, then you get 1351 and long crank or no start. came back three times a no start, (would fire right up for me) before I figured it out. sounds like a wiring or connection issue.
Yes sir. I’m getting this code intermittently on my 99 suburban. I’m trying to figure out what’s causing it.
@@alphasaiyan5760 check cam signal in dist. mostly a no start when ambient temp below 40 fahrenheit also icm.
@@prmayner thanks. I’ll check the cam signal. It’s been in the 60s-80s temp wise here. My truck just started doing this about a week ago. It’s only done it twice so far. It doesn’t start one time then it throws the code but then when I go to start it again it starts up with the code stored. I just clear it with my scanner and it runs fine like nothing is wrong with it. I’ve got a 5.7 vortec tuned 60 over with a tune from Nelson’s performance. Headers with cat delete exhaust. I just did a partial tune up too. All AC delco. Cap , rotor , plug wires , plugs. The only thing I changed was from AC delco 14 platinum plugs over to AC delco iridiums. Would the iridium plugs have anything to do with this code ?
@@alphasaiyan5760 I highly doubt it.
Hey Paul I heard you say that AES Wave is redesigning the Uactivate relay tool. Any idea on when that is going to be available?
Pressure regulator?
Fuel smell in the oil?
Didn't suspect that at the time! Would have been a good thing to check for sure!
Setting a digital volt meter to ac will help read a digital square wave. On the dc scale it might not pick up any voltage due to it switching back and forth.
Yes sir, exactly
had this issues check the icm connection I had a bad terminal shorting everything
Guys...FORGET that 'AC' technical writing glich!
It's suppose to be a square wave!
I think ya'll have wiring harness issue!
I'd go into the CAN to see which modules show up as being online when cranking fails.
i have seen those have a partial ignition failure blow lots of smoke cuz it cant burn it all then the computer leans it out making it do the chug chug. a viscious cycle in the computer trying to adjust. sounds to me like it has a module going or the ground to the module is bad letting the voltage go high on the b+ (causing the code)cuz it isnt pulling the amps through the coil. may want to watch that ground to see if its elevated.
I fixed my 99 GMC suburban same code 1351 it was the engine coolant temperature sensor.
What the temperature of engine when it acts up ? could it possibly be Heat or cold related ?
Good question! I am not sure, but I do know it was acting up on his way home and he is not close, so definitely a hot engine during this period
That was a class act at the end. I'm wondering if the fuel system is full of large sized contaminants (I call them dog turds) causing the FPR to increase the pressure intermittently and when bro unpinched the return line it pulsed the FPR and cleared it back into the tank awaiting the next (dog turd) which happened when a substantial amount of fuel flowed again while driving unlike the little stationary revs you give it in the shop. Has anybody looked at the fuel filter? Maybe it's blowing its own chunks into the system and the injectors are not affected, only the FPR. Funny a fuel filter causing a rich condition but I'm sure stranger things have happened.
Disclaimer:This comment is not based on experience or trained knowledge but rather a conjecture to provoke thought.
Alternator regulater.... @8 min
Ground dtraps, go give them ALL a 1/4 turn. I fixed a no crank on a pontiac that was a ground strap to transmission....
while I do not disagree, I would want to see the issue first before disturbing something and then not knowing if I ever truly fixed it. Plus the code was proven to be false, which was the customers main area of concern. Duplicating the fault would need to happen first before I ever do any "repairs". Just my opinion.
@@ScannerDanner I agree with you, Let me tell you the ponitiac story... wouldn't start but crank, intermittent. Finally it wouldn't crank most of the time. My buddy (his wife car) called me, hooked up scan tool, connects fine (don't recall codes if any). Crack and no start... umm... scanner lost connection... repeat, repeat..., scratch head as it connects wihen not cranking (many thoughts at the time). Go to look in engine bay (just looking and lost) but by accident put my hand down on a 10mm bolt and burnt the shit out of me (lol... just hot). Tightened and cranked right up. In this instance it was the ground strap going to the trans and it was lose/hidden corrosion where it connected to the radiator mount cross member.
And I can explain why you see armature waveforms on some cars/pumps more than others.... but I won't rattle further unless ya want.
Just trying to help and thank you for the help you provide others. Best, Ken
P.S. Tell your brother when an instrument switches from ac to dc it usually just puts a cap in series. If you left your instrument in DC and put a cap lead on the probe end, you just made it ac coupled just like the switch on the instrument .