I disagree with the statement that early trinity doesn't count. I think geistD played too conservative and allowed the opponent to stack up on resources essentially nullifying the huge advantage he had on turn 1. But I agree with you as he locked himself with a 0 ATK TER with no follow-up and the opponent benefited more from the stalemate
Same thing game 2. When dont Copy was at 3100 lp he had solemn set, noc in hand, he knew dont Copy had a bada hand, why dont gi for charity and try to draw something to be sure to win next turn? He had 1 dead metamorphosis and tribe that could have been easily discarded
I used to money match GeistD when I was complete scrub at Goat format. He plays conservative all the time and over guesses backrow. That's just his playstyle. It's a hinderance at times. But even this game I'm confused as to why he didnt play more aggressively with a resolution of duo, and double graceful
Aspiring goat player here would like to discuss game 1. I would have played many parts differently and I was hoping to pick up your (or the top players) mind here. 1)Isn't using Duo first always better? you provide less info (graceful discards) and you gain info (their discards) before using your other cards. 2)There's an argument that if you have serpent graceful turn 1, you don't use it to check if they opened duo, so that serpent plusses twice. I think in this case graceful is good to dig for a flip summon since we don't have any, but I wonder if he'd hold graceful if he did. 3)Graceful draws faith and solemn, isn't that the win condition of the deck? if faith resolves after this opening how can we lose? If the argument is life points, we can send ring. What are we afraid of at this point? NoC and opposing trinity which solemn covers. Also, we see later that he draws another solemn. So if it's not good here (best case scenario if you draw it early with a lead to lock the game) to the point we discard it, why are we even playing more than 0-1? 4)Turn 3, opponent discards faith break (so we know he's probably on some chaos variant) and sets. It can't be faith, so probably dekoichi\spy, maybe spirit reaper\sangan. Why use meta here? Isn't that a waste? we could summon tribe and attack, and if it's spy (which it is) just clear it next turn and keep the pressure. If it's dekoichi it's not a plus 1. Since we have serpent we can use meta any other time when he can have faith later on or chaos sorc. Also since we don't have tsukuyomi, opponent can set another monster next turn and we can't deal with it, except next turn it could be spell + faith which we have to deal with unlike now. 5)Turn 5, what's the point of summoning breaker? plays into torrential, doesn't clear anything meaningful (even if it was a real trap we still can't attack or progress our game state) and like you said another spellcaster vs the tribe. Also if we aren't setting 2nd solemn when we're so far ahead why is it in the deck? opponent can draw into graceful thunder dragon any time and turn the game around when solemn is in our hand. (Which happens 2 turns after)
1 and 2 are answered by the fact that we'd really like to see Dustshoot t1 (and use it before Duo). 3: I think geistD used his Solemn's appropriately. It's a fine card, but it's really not the "win condition" that a lot of players think it is. Paying 4000 in the early game can quickly go wrong. 4 and 5: I think going TER is fine if we have some sort of plan. I couldn't really tell what geistD'd plan was here, and yeah, I agree that the Breaker was strange.
Pretty much what Goat said although, to add to 3, Solemn when your opponent still has a bunch of cards in hand and power cards in the deck isn't as devastating as a Solemn in a simplified game state. If he solomns your BLS when you have a full hand its not game over. Of he Solomons your BLS when you're topdecking, you're basically screwed or if he has it set when you have low resources and he is sitting pretty. 4 and 5 I agree, idk why he did that but don't copy could have played around that part a little better too. Of course when you get to a high level sometimes its easy to over think
@@blackmagick77 Sure I sort of agree with 1, that's why I never liked 3 judgments. But when watching this video I was taking into account that he built his deck with 3 judgments, so if he isn't setting it in that case and discarding one later, either he made a deck building mistake and shouldn't have them, or a misplay where he should've set here to resolve the faith and try to get advantage
My friend, your commentary is good but I would retitle the video. geistD's misassignment of role in game 1 was not only not perfect, it was a shining example of Mike Flores's adage, "Misassignment of role = game loss." In this case, the mistake determined the entire match. I would title the video after the adage. The fact that they generally played well is actually what makes this such a good example to learn from, because it removes confounding variables to distill the purity of the game's most fundamental principle seen in action.
Hey dude, do you have an opinion in Infernal Flame Emperor? like rogue non-competitive decks and stuff. I'm building something arount that guy but the choices are super hard as it's specially difficult to fight against the meta, but this difficulty I find specially satisfiying when it acually wins.
This is why I prefer goat warrior. Regular goat control and chaos control have a hard time applyng pressure or benefiting from annearly lead. Transforming it into something tangible. Warrior is of course very good at that and chaos can just turn its answer/defensive options into weapon (summoning sorc in a empty field, turning spies in attack mode, summoning deko face up...). You can't do that with meta and merchants, or jars for that matter. You have to play the long game patiently. Goat warrior allow you to have your cake an eat it. The meta swap, abyss, bls play for the endgame. The warrior for the early game. The only disadvantage is that it is a bit less consistant with less lv1 and less drawing power. Having run the stat It seems that 80% of the time you draw your combo pieces you'll have the meta/swap + goat/sinister combo by turn 4 or at least a graceful/tribe to discard them. With the drawing power of regular goat and the other lv1 you could make this number a 90% which is nice but not really worth it IMO. Early game pressure is so nice, even in those game being at 4000 was like night and day. Goat warrior can easily manufacture this 4000lp scenario so that later in the game you can Otk out of nowhere with tribe, prema,snatch,swap,meta,abyss,ring... All those cloagged gamestate become way more difficult to play if the opponent is at 8000 lp (and you can't always count on them to go down to 4000 lp, not everybody play solemn)
Sure, here's the list. You still need to gauge what's the best course of action. Aggro or control. A lot of the time not summoning too much and playing it slow is the right course of action. This is not warrior, You can hold your own in the endgame. Don't have to rush it if you don't have to. Monster 15: Bls Chaos sorcerer Breaker the magical warrior Tribe infecting virus Kycoo the ghost destroyer Blade knight D.d warrior lady Don zaloog Ninja grandmaster sasuke 2x magician of faith Cyber jar Morphing jar Sinister serpent Spells 17: 2x Reinforcement Pot of greed Graceful charity Delinquant duo Heavy storm Snatch steal 2x Nobleman of crossout Mind control 2x scapegoat 2x metamorphosis 2x creature swap book of moon Traps 8: Mirror force Torrential tribute ring of destruction 3x solemn judgement call of the haunted Xing zhen hu
I just watched through 0:43 but i can confidently say that geistD played better beacause it has jar of greed in its decklist and jar of greed is based (when I played GOAT it was hella underrated idk what’s the opinion about it now) Edit: nvm both are pretty based. Edit 2 7:40 i feel like geist is playing really into a chaos by not setting the solemn judgment after giving it a dark in gy and at the same time not putting any pressure. I feel like a chaos sorc plus a möbius could just win the game beacause you didn’t set solemn
Game one discarding heavy storm as opposed to mirror force was a mistake. He had ring already. Heavy Storm would have allowed him to finish the game early.
I think geist mains trap dust shoot and wanted to see if he finds it. Resolving it before duo. Also the benefit of duoing first and revealing less information is probably not that big as you might think
@@danuspeters1976 I dont exactly know how much u benefit from it, but I know that u do benefit from duoing first. It could have an influence on ur graceful discards. By using graceful first and then duo ur opponent knows now what he should discard.
@@danuspeters1976 And even if what u say is right, after u use duo turn 1 ur opponent has 3 cards in hand. U set trap dustshoot. Ur opponent draws and has now 4 cards in hand and u can use trap dustshoot.
@@danuspeters1976 U always duo on turn 1. Not using duo on turn 1 is quite a bad play cause then u miss the chance of hitting a trinity piece. The chance of ur opponent having a serpent on ur turn 1 is just 12.5%. 1:40 ACP even says "we always duo on turn 1"
Guilty knowledge or not GeistD new his opponent had nothing and didn't go for game. Huge misplay for a top tier player. He was pretty much set to win no matter what but he got screwed by his own restrict before.
As I've addressed in multiple other comments, no, it's not a mistake. GeistD maindecks Dustshoot, and therefore you want to Graceful first so that if you draw into Dustshoot, you can Dustshoot on t1 and Duo on t2. Because Dustshoot before Duo is optimal, Pot/Graceful/Upstart before Duo is also optimal, if you run Dustshoot.
Using Graceful before Duo is correct here. If you draw Dustshoot off of the Graceful then you want to Dustshoot t1 and Duo AFTERWARDS on t2. The fact that you so confidently criticized this correct play is why GeistD is top5 in the world and you aren't.
These guys are very mediocre players. It's interesting how when in an awkward gamestate or a tempo state they don't know how to properly play out of it, very telling.
![REASONING GATE DECK PROFILE + TEST HANDS [GOAT FORMAT]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xz1lg0fHB8w/mqdefault.jpg)
I disagree with the statement that early trinity doesn't count. I think geistD played too conservative and allowed the opponent to stack up on resources essentially nullifying the huge advantage he had on turn 1. But I agree with you as he locked himself with a 0 ATK TER with no follow-up and the opponent benefited more from the stalemate
For real, GeistD locked himself with no follow up. Ass
Same thing game 2. When dont Copy was at 3100 lp he had solemn set, noc in hand, he knew dont Copy had a bada hand, why dont gi for charity and try to draw something to be sure to win next turn? He had 1 dead metamorphosis and tribe that could have been easily discarded
He should have taken Duo again imo
I used to money match GeistD when I was complete scrub at Goat format. He plays conservative all the time and over guesses backrow. That's just his playstyle. It's a hinderance at times. But even this game I'm confused as to why he didnt play more aggressively with a resolution of duo, and double graceful
Aspiring goat player here would like to discuss game 1. I would have played many parts differently and I was hoping to pick up your (or the top players) mind here.
1)Isn't using Duo first always better? you provide less info (graceful discards) and you gain info (their discards) before using your other cards.
2)There's an argument that if you have serpent graceful turn 1, you don't use it to check if they opened duo, so that serpent plusses twice.
I think in this case graceful is good to dig for a flip summon since we don't have any, but I wonder if he'd hold graceful if he did.
3)Graceful draws faith and solemn, isn't that the win condition of the deck? if faith resolves after this opening how can we lose?
If the argument is life points, we can send ring. What are we afraid of at this point? NoC and opposing trinity which solemn covers.
Also, we see later that he draws another solemn. So if it's not good here (best case scenario if you draw it early with a lead to lock the game) to the point we discard it, why are we even playing more than 0-1?
4)Turn 3, opponent discards faith break (so we know he's probably on some chaos variant) and sets. It can't be faith, so probably dekoichi\spy, maybe spirit reaper\sangan. Why use meta here? Isn't that a waste? we could summon tribe and attack, and if it's spy (which it is) just clear it next turn and keep the pressure. If it's dekoichi it's not a plus 1. Since we have serpent we can use meta any other time when he can have faith later on or chaos sorc. Also since we don't have tsukuyomi, opponent can set another monster next turn and we can't deal with it, except next turn it could be spell + faith which we have to deal with unlike now.
5)Turn 5, what's the point of summoning breaker? plays into torrential, doesn't clear anything meaningful (even if it was a real trap we still can't attack or progress our game state) and like you said another spellcaster vs the tribe. Also if we aren't setting 2nd solemn when we're so far ahead why is it in the deck? opponent can draw into graceful thunder dragon any time and turn the game around when solemn is in our hand. (Which happens 2 turns after)
1 and 2 are answered by the fact that we'd really like to see Dustshoot t1 (and use it before Duo).
3: I think geistD used his Solemn's appropriately. It's a fine card, but it's really not the "win condition" that a lot of players think it is. Paying 4000 in the early game can quickly go wrong.
4 and 5: I think going TER is fine if we have some sort of plan. I couldn't really tell what geistD'd plan was here, and yeah, I agree that the Breaker was strange.
Pretty much what Goat said although, to add to 3, Solemn when your opponent still has a bunch of cards in hand and power cards in the deck isn't as devastating as a Solemn in a simplified game state. If he solomns your BLS when you have a full hand its not game over. Of he Solomons your BLS when you're topdecking, you're basically screwed or if he has it set when you have low resources and he is sitting pretty.
4 and 5 I agree, idk why he did that but don't copy could have played around that part a little better too. Of course when you get to a high level sometimes its easy to over think
@@blackmagick77 Sure I sort of agree with 1, that's why I never liked 3 judgments. But when watching this video I was taking into account that he built his deck with 3 judgments, so if he isn't setting it in that case and discarding one later, either he made a deck building mistake and shouldn't have them, or a misplay where he should've set here to resolve the faith and try to get advantage
My friend, your commentary is good but I would retitle the video. geistD's misassignment of role in game 1 was not only not perfect, it was a shining example of Mike Flores's adage, "Misassignment of role = game loss." In this case, the mistake determined the entire match. I would title the video after the adage. The fact that they generally played well is actually what makes this such a good example to learn from, because it removes confounding variables to distill the purity of the game's most fundamental principle seen in action.
I wonder how game 1 would've turned out if geistD summoned Tribe instead of Breaker.
what's the win condition for goat control to win vs chaos? stalling doesn't seem to be it.
what i love about neko mane king is that all those pro player moves like duo when you dont need might lead to a loss
Hey dude, do you have an opinion in Infernal Flame Emperor? like rogue non-competitive decks and stuff. I'm building something arount that guy but the choices are super hard as it's specially difficult to fight against the meta, but this difficulty I find specially satisfiying when it acually wins.
Why you are not commenting for goat format WCP? Enjoyed the insight of your thoughts
the cat got impatient, tryna see g3 XD
This is why I prefer goat warrior. Regular goat control and chaos control have a hard time applyng pressure or benefiting from annearly lead. Transforming it into something tangible. Warrior is of course very good at that and chaos can just turn its answer/defensive options into weapon (summoning sorc in a empty field, turning spies in attack mode, summoning deko face up...). You can't do that with meta and merchants, or jars for that matter. You have to play the long game patiently.
Goat warrior allow you to have your cake an eat it. The meta swap, abyss, bls play for the endgame. The warrior for the early game.
The only disadvantage is that it is a bit less consistant with less lv1 and less drawing power. Having run the stat It seems that 80% of the time you draw your combo pieces you'll have the meta/swap + goat/sinister combo by turn 4 or at least a graceful/tribe to discard them. With the drawing power of regular goat and the other lv1 you could make this number a 90% which is nice but not really worth it IMO. Early game pressure is so nice, even in those game being at 4000 was like night and day. Goat warrior can easily manufacture this 4000lp scenario so that later in the game you can Otk out of nowhere with tribe, prema,snatch,swap,meta,abyss,ring... All those cloagged gamestate become way more difficult to play if the opponent is at 8000 lp (and you can't always count on them to go down to 4000 lp, not everybody play solemn)
I like your take on this, and I agree with a lot of what you said. Do you have a goat warrior list you could share by any chance?
Sure, here's the list. You still need to gauge what's the best course of action. Aggro or control. A lot of the time not summoning too much and playing it slow is the right course of action. This is not warrior, You can hold your own in the endgame. Don't have to rush it if you don't have to.
Monster 15:
Bls
Chaos sorcerer
Breaker the magical warrior
Tribe infecting virus
Kycoo the ghost destroyer
Blade knight
D.d warrior lady
Don zaloog
Ninja grandmaster sasuke
2x magician of faith
Cyber jar
Morphing jar
Sinister serpent
Spells 17:
2x Reinforcement
Pot of greed
Graceful charity
Delinquant duo
Heavy storm
Snatch steal
2x Nobleman of crossout
Mind control
2x scapegoat
2x metamorphosis
2x creature swap
book of moon
Traps 8:
Mirror force
Torrential tribute
ring of destruction
3x solemn judgement
call of the haunted
Xing zhen hu
Love this type of video, really helpful!
good content. love to hear your insight
Now we need your top 10 of all time.
You sir are on that list.
Maybe someday. I'd be worried about causing drama.
@@GoatDuels if u don't want a bunch of crying Italiens in ur comment section, u shouldn't do it XD
It would be hilarious if ACP had himself as No. 1 on that list.
I just watched through 0:43 but i can confidently say that geistD played better beacause it has jar of greed in its decklist and jar of greed is based (when I played GOAT it was hella underrated idk what’s the opinion about it now)
Edit: nvm both are pretty based.
Edit 2 7:40 i feel like geist is playing really into a chaos by not setting the solemn judgment after giving it a dark in gy and at the same time not putting any pressure. I feel like a chaos sorc plus a möbius could just win the game beacause you didn’t set solemn
I'm by no means a pro, but let me tell you I would go aggresive af and my opp would have lost way before game 1 ended.
Totally agree with this. He played way too safe and it costed him.
what website is this? looks like duel deck
🤔 cold wave is maybe better than a judgment if you use it for finishing. So why not putting 2 cold waves and 1 judgment instead of 3 judgments ?
When in doubt always commit more cards to the field.
Game one discarding heavy storm as opposed to mirror force was a mistake. He had ring already. Heavy Storm would have allowed him to finish the game early.
I've beaten GeistD before, but he's REALLY good...
0:51 "I don't think either of these player will make a lot of mistakes this game" geistD uses Graceful before Duo XD
I think geist mains trap dust shoot and wanted to see if he finds it. Resolving it before duo. Also the benefit of duoing first and revealing less information is probably not that big as you might think
@@danuspeters1976 I dont exactly know how much u benefit from it, but I know that u do benefit from duoing first. It could have an influence on ur graceful discards. By using graceful first and then duo ur opponent knows now what he should discard.
@@danuspeters1976 And even if what u say is right, after u use duo turn 1 ur opponent has 3 cards in hand. U set trap dustshoot. Ur opponent draws and has now 4 cards in hand and u can use trap dustshoot.
@@sumokami6934 the idea is to use trap dust shoot before and keeping duo for next turn to shuffle back possible night assailant or serpent.
@@danuspeters1976 U always duo on turn 1. Not using duo on turn 1 is quite a bad play cause then u miss the chance of hitting a trinity piece. The chance of ur opponent having a serpent on ur turn 1 is just 12.5%. 1:40 ACP even says "we always duo on turn 1"
says pros play near perfect game .. in first 5 min i see 3-4 missplays :D
Guilty knowledge or not GeistD new his opponent had nothing and didn't go for game. Huge misplay for a top tier player. He was pretty much set to win no matter what but he got screwed by his own restrict before.
He didn't duo first, that was a mistake.
As I've addressed in multiple other comments, no, it's not a mistake. GeistD maindecks Dustshoot, and therefore you want to Graceful first so that if you draw into Dustshoot, you can Dustshoot on t1 and Duo on t2. Because Dustshoot before Duo is optimal, Pot/Graceful/Upstart before Duo is also optimal, if you run Dustshoot.
Water goat control
Theres always a correct play. He misplayed while having all that advantage on game 1
Bot? Omg 😲 😱 😲 😱
"near perfect game" procede to use charity instead of duo, skipped the video immediatly 👍🏻
Using Graceful before Duo is correct here. If you draw Dustshoot off of the Graceful then you want to Dustshoot t1 and Duo AFTERWARDS on t2. The fact that you so confidently criticized this correct play is why GeistD is top5 in the world and you aren't.
Why dont you play competitive?
These guys are very mediocre players. It's interesting how when in an awkward gamestate or a tempo state they don't know how to properly play out of it, very telling.