Awww, the two grandiose narcissists almost sound sweet together. You can imagine two people throwing careless insults at each other in the morning and walking away oblivious and not remotely affected. Or having long ‘chats’ where the two listen to themselves talk and walk away thinking the other is impressed. AND they wouldn’t be available to hurt some innocent soul, effectively removing two toxic partners from society.
Yeah... no... I mean, as Aleksandra W points out, it might work out well for society if they didn't have children. My grandiose narcissistic parents did seem sweet enough often enough that I grew up under the illusion that I had a happy childhood. They were optimistic and very confident, as Dr. Grande says, but they fought a lot with complete disrespect toward one another, calling each other names and demonstrating hatred, never learning anything from any of the fights. Then they told us kids to take sides and join them in invalidating the other parent. I always taking sides and getting super angry, while my little sister cried. I grew up hating dad because he was more overtly aggressive whilst mum was covertly manipulative, "softer", so to speak. Eventually I learned that mum's tactics were just as morally reprehensible as dad's. Society thinks they are a successful couple because they are still together.
Being with a narcissist made me understand I was one, because all of a sudden I felt for the first time I had not power over someone. At first it was like we were high on drugs, in the love bombing fase just because of the execcesive supply. Later on, when the boredom started, let me tell you it ended all very badly! Thank you so much Mr. Grande, you are one of the biggest reasons I pushed my self to go into therapy. I am vulnerable narcissist with a lot of BPD traits. You are helping the world! Greetings from Greece 🇬🇷
I’m in a similar situation. I’m in a relationship with a narcissist and didn’t know. First I found out that I’m one and slowly but surely realized she is too and now it all makes sense. I don’t kneel what to do
Me I'm not sure if he's narcissistic but he kinda is... Probably just somewhere in the spectrum idk but he can say sorry and be humble, but there are times he really act resistant to criticisms and is very insecure he is even afraid that I'm loving a novel series over him... And we been in a rollercoaster relationship I start questioning what he really is and what really I am too... I constantly tried to understand his personality then my personality, then from that, I realized I am actually partly narcissistic as well... I realized I actually know how to manipulate people too, I'm insecure too and afraid of criticisms... But I don't think I have the disorder, probably just going close to it. I'm doing better now, gives me hope narcissists can actually be better but it depends on how narcissistic they are and how willing they are to do so.
@@amarylisseserenity6993 look at Dr. Grande’s videos on BPD. It's a misnomer that narcs cannot apologize. Many cannot. Some can, but not for the same reasons functional people do.
My parents were both narcissistic, were miserable for 50+ years together. My childhood was horrible. The tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife. I was terrified of my cruel father my entire life, not physically but emotionally. My mother’s disdain for him resulted in not only the silent treatment but almost a hissing quality if she addressed him. His rage was taken out on others, namely me or his employees. His only empathy was for people who were strangers. It was warped. They were both entirely disconnected from each other, were superficial, were weird. Everything was appearances, period. To say I am screwed up is an understatement BUT I am a fighter and fought my way through, got therapy, am constantly learning. Thank you for videos on this subject! There is always more to learn and understand, even at age 70!
I’m 70 too. My story is similar , I did corrective parenting therapy in my late 30’s early 40’s. It’s so hard to ever be normal. I’m some version of them, too.....
This sounds like my childhood. My father and stepmother would argue over everything!!! My biological mother was a cluster B Borderline....now I'm BPD/ CPTSD...major abandonment wounds...my sister is an overt Narc/ Histrionic...its generational due to how we atre raised
Soap operas for narcissists: "As The World Turns Around Me", "The Days of My Life", "The Bolder and More Beautiful", "General of the Hospital", "All My Wealthy Children".
And, last but not least -- "Look how together we all are and progressively manly too some of us because we unlike any others who cannot afford the time to spend for only watching soap operas and look how we can actually enjoy watching those soap operas instead of looking all worried while doing so or instead of most of the time looking worried and tired out while riding the bus too".
The best part about two narcissists being together is that that means two less narcissists in the pool. however, the worst part is probably if they have kids. Those children will very likely have an incredibly abusive childhood
i had a covert narcissist mom and a malignant narcissist stepdad. i cannot stress enough how destructive ppl are with this disorder. they were married for nearly 20 yrs and accomplished NOTHING!!
@@JudeScott007 😂😂😂😂 nope 👎…..That was dna 🧬 that did that… generations of 🧬 Click on in the brain 🧠. However most never switch ON…😞 You just die 💀 Obvious 🧠
As a borderliner/vulnerable narcissist I fell into relationships with grandiose narcissists over and over again before I went into therapy. I truly believe you dont attract what you want, but you attract what you are. Unless you do a lot of self-work and are willing to go against your instincts these patterns will repeat over and over.
@@marlinadykema6474 she sounds like a covert narcissist. They always play the devil's advocate in every situation, because it helps them devalue your choices covertly. Part of them would actually would want you to remain with a disordered person so that they can watch you break down, but part of them doesn't want to lose you as their server and punching bag. Many children of narcs become people pleasers and get into relationships with narcs/ other cluster Bs because there's no understanding of good boundaries and healthy behaviour and a habituation to bad, unhealthy behaviour. We accept because that's often what we know.
song song borderline and narcissistic personality disorders can be (and often are) comorbid. That is, a person can have more than one personality disorder or, for that matter, mental illness. Dr Grande talks about comorbid personality disorders frequently. Rob Cazant is not misleading anyone.
Oh yes. Chaotic only behind closed doors where there will be no witnesses outside of their immediate family, parents and siblings too unless both are narcissistic or at least one of them is showing early signs of dementia.
For a long time I thought my father was a victim of my mother’s rage and control. But I realized that he needed that “burden” and realized all the ways he covertly parentified me and can act very much like a narcissist. But their life goals align, so it has worked for over 40 years. They both have a need to be leaders and teachers. My father is an ordained minister and my mother a former Texas beauty queen with a talent for singing on stage. They were the preaching circuit power couple. Never able to establish a long standing relationship with any church community, but ever the guest preacher/speaker and his gospel singing wife. They had complete control over me until I left their home at age thirty. My sister still lives with them at age forty. I felt like I had escaped a cult, almost twelve years ago now.
I believe one of my parents is a Grandiose and the other is a Vulnerable. I have hardly ever seen them not fighting. Particularly when you take into account my older brother. I keep my distance from them all as much as possible, but it's incredible to behold the amount of energy they have for it and the hours and hours per day they can devote to shouting. I am the opposite of them and I hate to argue. I am always working hard on my boundaries. I've made a lot of progress thankfully.
@@natashamudford4011 I recommend therapy and distance and reading lots of books, articles and watching lots of youtube videos. Also, reevaluating your life such as career, friendships, etc. Know your values and your nature and aim towards a life that respects them as much as possible. Try to become as financially indepedent as possible. It can be a long process but having goals to aim for is one of the most positive ways of living.
I love your educational and entertaining yet not sensationalist way of dealing with these subjects. I have put this into my watch later list for bedtime. Your videos go into my must watch, not my might watch lists. X
as someone with ADHD the idea of further dividing the "watch later" category into "must watch" and "might watch" sounds GENIUS and I'm mad I didn't think of it myself before. game changer.
I would like to see a lot more videos from you on C-PTSD as it relates to child abuse, and particularly child abuse that is from a narcissist or antisocial personality disorder parent. More on how childhood sexual abuse effects survivors would be helpful too. Thank you.
I think my husband is a narcissist but I also have to admit that I want him to completely focus on me when we spend time together. I am not sure who is worse, but realizing everything I complain about I do too was a huge wake up call for me. We some how make it work because as self centered as we are, we talk all these ugly things out and admit we are eachother's mirror.
The observation I've made is that Narcissist rarely maintain a constant relationship, except in the case of the vulnerable narcissist. Then as you say, its superficial.
Yes the vulnerable Narcissist loves that long term steady relationship cause there’s strong dependency traits involved too... Mommy issues or Daddy issues!!!... STOP caretaking the Narcissist!!
Very true, that's my mom. Codependency although acts completely dependant. My father asd/narc and was the strong provider type whilst being angry rages frightening and could turn violent but always when he blew felt threatening. She should have left but values the provider part and being married and having children (into this environment! ) more. She should have left and not had children. Giving material things doesn't Compensate for respect safety and sanity!!
i was born to two narcissists and haven't even realized until now, i'm 18 and i only realized my mom was completely like my dad who i already knew was a narcissist, 2 days ago. she let the covert mask fall when i finally told her i was leaving. as if her morphing into my father in my dreams wasnt enough evidence for me lmaooo. i really wish people would stop acting like narcissists cant be together, so many people are stuck with narcissists not realizing how awful they are just because of the misconception that they can never be together.
I’m actually relatively introverted. I like extroverts sometimes. They are so talented at keeping me engaged. But over time, their need for interaction can be exhausting. So I suspect I’m best suited to more introverted people, but I do admire and enjoy extroverts. They’re very attractive people and seem genuinely interested in all my boring stuff. And they tell the best stories. Most I’ve met are so nice
A bird of a feather flocks together as they say! Sadly I had to see this type of relationship with my own eyes. My older sibling's relationships kept failing until she met a guy who happens to exhibit similar traits as her, which happens to be narcissistic.
I told a vulnerable narcissist to stop complaining about her grandiose narcissist. No surprise, I’ve been given the silent treatment forever. It’s actually a relief.
My parents were narcissists and I was the "people-pleasing" scapegoat. Dr. Grande, could you look at how some adult children of narc parents recover from narc abuse, especially how they learn to become more assertive and less "agreeable" over time - in a healthy way, like changes on the OCEAN test over time healing from narc abuse?
@Alice Star You need to know that two narcissists are capable of being married especially if one's covert and the other's grandiose/overt. My comment doesn't come from being unable to have a decent perspective.
My parents both have narcissistic traits and lack empathy for other people. The only thing I've ever seen them truly bond over was abusing me. It gives me peace to know that behind closed doors, their relationship could be miserable, but they're both too proud to ever admit it or maybe even realize it.
Wow this video is so informative. I think my husband and I are both narcissistic. I used to think it was only him but maybe its the both of us. It's definitely not a relationship to envy but it works for us because we understand each other and what we are and aren't capable of.
You're no narcissist... A true narcissist doesn't posses the ability to introspect in order to realise that they are indeed, narcissistic. Plus, even if they somehow did, they wouldn't admit it. Being narcissistic is nothing to glorify or romanticize either. It's a destructive mental disorder that serves no-one any good.
I know a pair of vulnerable narcissists that have been together for over 15 years. He’s a little more overt than she is, but they’re both introverted (though she tries to be extroverted). I’m not around them anymore, but the years I was around them was pure chaos. They’re constantly either teaming up together against other people or they’re tearing each other’s throats out. The only way they bond is by picking on other people behind their backs. They’re a pretty miserable couple to be around but both of them are terrified of being single. They’ve both tried to cheat on each other, he was completely unsuccessful, she was only moderately successful (she’d sleep around with hopes that the guy would want to date her the next morning but that never happened). I’m glad to be away from them bc I was frequently a target of theirs. She had been my best friend since kindergarten, I introduced her to him bc he was a friend in high school. They were both messed up people in their own way beforehand, but once together a complete monster was born.
BPD mom and NPD step dad(likely a sociopath), also I lived through her other strings of NPD men before she settled on my step dad(got pregnant). All of us have mental health issues due to their parenting; Big bro_ NPD(likely a sociopath) _ sex predator(molested a child,was grooming another one n I warned the mom to watch out,almost raped a maid but she screamed and someone saved her, coercive to a female relative and when she wouldn't give in he verbally and emotionally abused her for months until I told him I knew and I would tell on him,was usually touchy n leery in a weird way to me until I stopped being near him alone,lil sis also avoided him due to this)alcoholism,depression,very short lived relationships,low self esteem,missing or dead since 2012. Me_codependency(abusive relationships),depression,anxiety,smoker,almost became an alcoholic,people pleaser Lil Sis_ unavailable relationships,codependency,almost became an alcoholic, depression n anxiety Lil Bro_ depression,fear of expressing himself,fear of being gay bc he craves positive male interractions bc he never had one, low self esteem,he's still young n sis n i offer validation so he doesn't narc out. But alot of people in the extended family were given the impression they were awesome parents with difficult children. To this day if I see a parent moaning about a child,I wonder if it's really the child or a narcissist parent.
@Alice Darque Thank God you came out Empathetic, my mom is Narcissistic, my dad her puppet. I'm an Empathic person, I was the Black Sheep and the only girl I have 3 brothers..
@Alice Darque I agree with you 100%. Narcissism is spreading like like cancer. I feel the same way about relationships, I'm focusing on my self and my mental illness, a relationship is only going to add more anxiety and stress to what I'm already trying to deal with and fix.
Wow, Dr. Grande. There’s a certain couple I know and I’ve always said they are perfect for each other in all the wrong ways. You helped me understand why 🙏
You’re more than a Queen. Not that a Queen is limiting because that’s the highest highness of a most intelligent courageous beauty amongst women. You do embody a perfect emanating expression of a Queen. The icing on the cake is your Divine limitlessness that is in tune with her being. You’re evolution. Thank you for sharing and expressing. I sense your passion for yourself and your passion for standing for justice of your worth. I’m grateful for the love you have for yourself. You’re badass.
Oh wow. Totally described my marriage. We've been together for over 15yrs. Wife is grandiose or let's say high extraversion, low agreeableness, low neuroticism, histrionic type. I am very high Openness, low agreeableness, high neuroticism medium to low extraversion... our relationship is a constant war and struggle. We don't see us as a true couple; but two absolute individuals in a... war. But somehow... we manage to carry on. We're attracted to eachother; maybe because we're both successful, good looking, desirable, etc. but in our own and different ways. (The ONE hugely binding element is our kids though. We love our kids). But on an individual basis, if I wanted to make my wife jealous it is very easy, and viceversa. I don't know if I'm fully narcissistic, but definitely have some traits...
I have wondered if it could be both of us. I'm working on my bad traits like being a people pleaser now. I developed the bad traits over decades with her. She admits nothing she has done and refuses to learn anything that would improve our situation. We're going through the divorce process now after 38 years of marriage. I sympathize with anyone else who is in this or a similar situation. Best wishes
@@decoy2636 agree. It is a difficult situation, especially if kids are involved because that makes everything exponentially more complicated. I don't think anybody needs to be a "people pleaser", the fact you think this way means there's definitely something not right somewhere..... good luck.
For us the divorce is basically on a countdown.... not sure exactly when it's going to happen. But every day seems more and more likely it's sooner and not later... very difficult situation.
I would love for you to do a video on the inverted narcissist! I know it's not an official form of narcissism but this concept finally helped me understand the dynamic between my mother and father after over 25 years. I knew my father was a grandiose narcissist for a few years, and I knew there was something terribly wrong with my mother and I read so much information trying to put my finger on it but I could not figure it out. I just could not understand her. When I read about inverted narcissism it made so much sense! If you're not familiar, the inverted narcissist is a vunerable or covert narcissist that actively and exclusively seeks out and engages in romantic relationships with other narcissists, typically grandiose or overt. The concept is essentially that somehow the grandiose false self in the inverted narcissist never develops, leaving their catastrophically low self esteem bared for them to consciously experience. They think that they are special and unique in a sense that "nobody is as terrible as me", "nobody has failed as greatly as I have", "nobody suffers as much as I do", "nobody is as unattractive as I am" and that sort of thing...and no one is special or unique enough to be able to relate to or understand them and their misery. For that reason, the narcissistic injury and their narcissistic rage appear when they feel someone has challenged them on how terrible they are or how miserable their life is. All my life, my mother has constantly put herself down and depreciated herself, alot of times saying to me how much smarter, or creative, or more attractive, or morally good I am than her. Then she reacts with anger and rage and retaliation schemes any time I have tried to encourage her or reassure her or bring up her positive qualities. She complains about how miserable and terrible her life is on a daily basis, no matter the circumstances, and gets angry if I try to offer positive comments of hope that things will or could get better. Even if I offer her a compliment on something she has done, she gets frustrated, shuts me down, and insists how awful of a job she did. She absolutely must be the victim in all situations and circumstances. Lots of people are uncomfortable taking compliments and flattery (I am one) but this isn't that. It's an unwillingness to allow anyone to even slightly challenge her negative perceptions of herself, and red hot anger if they continue or are persistent. I have never been able to wrap my mind around it until I read about the concept of inverted narcissism. Inverted narcissists solely seek out grandiose narcissists as partners is essentially for exactly the reason that you discussed near the end of this video- because of her(or his) incredibly low self esteem and with no grandiose false self to cover it up, she doesn't think that she, by herself, is worthy or capable of ANY success, power, beauty, or love, but at the same time, since she is a narcissist, those fantasies are something she desperately wants. So she attaches herself to a grandiose narcissist who does have those fantasies and derives all of her self worth from supporting him in his endeavors towards making those fantasies reality. She gets her narcissistic supply from people giving him attention, or admiration, or praise. Like you said, she lives completely vicariously through him and she is very enmeshed and codependent. I would love to hear any thoughts/comments/observations you have on this concept and relationship dynamic!!! 😊😊
You would think 2 Narcissistic individuals coupled in a romantic relationship could be “competing” since a primary trait of Narcissism is “self-absorption, entitlement & self-centeredness” are common to all types.
This videos help me sort out my parents marriage. My father is dead but always kept his life as a secret because he was bisexual and decades ago it was very shameful. And my mom is too much in denial now to have a fruitful conversation. I piece together the physical abuse,infidelity, dishonesty and neglect and I try to find the causes.
@@senzameta10 speaking for my daughter she told me she does not want kids because of the fact that she's bipolar and toxic. I have known other people and your kids are always in trouble
@@senzameta10 ppl have kids for all the wrong reasons. Like there narcissists who have a baby just for attention and could care less about the kid once it not cute. Or to show others how perfect they're family is. Or to better manipulate their partner.
@@Aaron-kj8dv my father, step mother, mother, and step father are unfortunately all narcissists. I left and never looked back because it was so painful. I'm greatful to be incredibly empathetic. I believe they taught me exactly what not to do. I understand the curiosity.
After four decades with her, I sure had many traits to rubb off on me. I found the initial knowledge about narcissism revolting until I learned since I truly felt empathy after all. There is hope I just keep trying to reprogram in to a better me. I pity her as she sees no need to improve. I will be better for the experience. So much rings a bell here in this video.
Dr. Grande, one of the things that I consistently enjoy about your videos is your interpretation of data and creative analysis. Being able to listen to you talk about denser material, breaking down the components and all the little details is fascinating. Your creative interpretation and ability to jump through hoops and elaborate is only second to your academic ability. I have watched a lot of your videos starting from the beginning, even the CBT skits and math videos. IMHO, Your recent vids have become a bit repetitive. Kind of like a softer spoken Philip Defranco that attempts comedy once and a while. The decent comedy on your channel has been successful because it contrasts to dry, dense or intellectual content. Less is more. Being able to see a tiny sparkle of personality every once in a while is nice, but when you try so hard that you’re not even yourself anymore, and you’re faking it to a crowd, we can see it. That being said, I’m excited to see what content you make in the future.
You explained my folks 🥴🥴🥴🥴 Man they gave so many innerchild trauma 😬😬😬 my brother passed in 2018 due to depression and alcohol. I survived because I found shamans ❤️❤️
Happy that i don't have my narcissist fiancé anymore in my life! I prefer a peaceful relationship with real love than a narcissist who makes me suffer and is toxic firstly for himself and then for me and the others. But he doesn't give a shit for the other people! Stay away from toxic people! Life is beautiful, enjoy it!
I was in the middle of a video when I got this notification, I dropped everything and click on the video. I like your style informative without putting people down. You talk to us like we are all adults I love that and that I really interesting video I've seen this first hand and family members and their relationship, it's nice to see it from your side on what's going on help me understand their motivations. My daughter is bipolar so I see this a lot in her.
You are by far one of the most intelligent Doctors ive seen speak about narcissism. You are very specific and I learn so much from you. Thank you for making these videos this is helping me tremendously through by breakup with my narc. I have been Narc free for 2 weeks! :)
Both my mom and dad are narcissists...my dad is overt and my mom is covert(vulnerable)...they divorced bc they both began getting physically abusive with one another.. they had three kids together...the oldest became the golden child the middle was partial scapegoated and partial golden...and I was partial scapegoated and partial invisible...the middle child( my bro)!became narcissistic...my sister became a judgemental overachiever and I became borderline....my bro and sis live real close to my parents...I moved to Maine...33 hours away from their bullshit and ive started my true healing... forgiving myself for all the pain I passed to people and all the hurt I caused to strangers, my family, myself, my friends...just healing fr
Very informative! The relationship where both are covert narcissists fits the description of what I am going through. I knew I was a narcissist when I met my current girlfriend and I was open about it, but she hadn't discovered herself yet, she seemed OCD to me at first, a very atypical person. But after the veil fell, if started to feel like hell. I feel like I only hear the criticism from her and that she brushes my compliments under the carpet, besides there's no day where I am not being told about the things I do wrong and I have been criticized in the most colorful ways possible. A few days ago, I left, but it's so hard. The codependency is real and my desire for control makes me resent the idea of her ever being with someone else. And as she puts it, it feels like there is nothing that connects us - no common goals or interests, no perspective on the future, only misery and staring into the abyss of our bad fortune. I had hoped for brighter days in our relationship. Now I only hope to find peace within myself.
My best friend and long time roommate and I both appear to share the same personality pathologies. Likely cluster A, (my therapist suspects I’m an A-C mix- I have some C traits. I don’t know if he does, but he doesn’t seem to, by dr grande’s description) He’s my best friend in the entire history of my life. We’re both weird, we’re both kind of into doing our own thing, but we know when to converge and do the things we mutually enjoy. His beliefs and interests differ greatly from mine, but we have a few things we share in common. And we love sharing them. He’s also a congenial person. It’s a pleasant friendship. As he says “there is no pushing or pulling. There is just sailing.” I know his negative traits and he knows mine, but we’re ok with it. And we try to mitigate them. And we make it work. Sometimes you need a weirdo who is weird in the same way you’re weird. His description of all this cluster B drama sounds exhausting.
What’s really bad is having two covert narcissistic parents who have empathic kids. Talk about potential in a human being lost when born into that. I think now a-days research drives better therapy but not so long ago few professionals knew what to do with this adult child. Sometimes parents just do too much damage, and I’ve seen it happen too many times. Realistically - that child at least does better so their children will also do better. It takes generations to heal in some cases, but the ones committed to doing the work, regardless of their own benefits or lack thereof - are the ones who begin the path back to wellness.
For many years now I have been trying to work out the make-up of my ex. Your videos finally cleared the view. He is a narc. Thank you. Needless to say, I am still recovering, the aftermath was a handful, but information like this helps a lot.
Do you have videos explaining 1 grandiose narcicist vs vulnerable narcicist? 2 And covert narcicist vs overt narcicist? 3 Narcicism and bullying(and not just school,working space too) If not,it would be awesome if you did. I havent watched this video yet, but to me it makes the most sense that a narcicist is looking for a vulnerable victim type, the type he or she can controll and dominate. It makes the most sense that a narcicist and another narcicist dont go too well together. They both want to controll the other. So basicly survival of the fittest,may the best narcicist win. You know the company i work at has many narcicists. Two colleagues in particulair. One is more an overt bully and more overtly agressive when he gets critique. The other is way more covert.He is more nice in the face but behind your back he tries to set up other colleagues against you. One is more overtly agressive,while the other is more covertly manipulating. Ive noticed and interesting dynamic between the two. One the one hand they just cant stand each other,their narcicim absolutely collides. But on the other hand,they are almost like a father and a son. They are like a dreamteam that both make it their mission to bully anyone to the point of leaving the company. Its just weird. They attract,and yet they collide. They are a team,and yet at other times they really do hate each others guts.
Im grandiose so is my long time partner. We deserve each other and it works for us. We feel independent and like that we support each other's goals. Our long term goals align and we have been VERY successful in our business and personal lives. We are attractive and enjoy each other's company and work great together on a team. even if many of our connections are based on meeting eachothers "superficial" needs. I do not think either of us could (or should) attempt to maintain a long term romantic relationship with someone who doesn't also have extroverted narcissist traits. We deserve to be happy and follow our dreams and this is the best set up for us to accomplish these goals for both of us. Yes we love eachother
This describes these 2 coworkers who think people don't notice that behind their quietness, they have something going on. In their case its the guy who is the pessimistic, quiet, might be chaotic one while the female is the outspoken one and nonempathetic (the true narc, all about money and what anyone can do for her - the gimme gimme type) and watching from a distance I can sense she has him in some form of control where he's holding back his feelings while she's looking like there's nothing going on. What's really sad is, it seems he may have interest in me and notice I'm a better choice but its like she have a hold on him like an abused trained dog who knows better not to eat from no one else's hand!
although in a way makes sense the initial attraction, if they have each gathered some social prestige and image. think of the idea of a "power couple" Rightly or wrongly they see each other as a good candidate "whoa, we are both so great, together we can be a power couple". Like what he says about the fantasy about being special and reinforcing that for one another.
I was wondering if you could do some sort of follow up video on this? My mother is a covert narcissist while my dad is a overt narcissist. They've been divorced since I was like 3, I'm 19 now. I switched back and forth seeing my dad every other weekend, while mainly staying with my mom. I had a lot of emotional neglect and any time I spoke badly to either side of my family, they took my parents' sides. I'm seeing a therapist, but honestly have never felt like anyone could understand what it's like. I have basically no self empathy or compassion yet I could give it freely to almost anything else. Edit: my mother became more of her narcissist self after the divorce, she was more of a codependent at first. Seeing my grandma have to take care of my alcoholic at the time grandfather while also dealing with 3 other brothers was a lot. I can't help seeing her as a victim sometimes but she's also said things even my therapist couldn't believe she was hearing i told her. 2nd edit: my dad's father left him, his mother, and their 2 other kids when my dad was young. They were basically homeless living in a car. He was the oldest and ended up becoming a bully to his siblings yet the bullied at school. He was in the army for a bit, and for me as a child he didn't know how to treat me other than a soldier.
Sounds like my ex husband, his dad was a drill instructor and he was treated like a soldier, he treated me and kids like we were in the military, don't be like him, I got out after 10 years & it's been 7 years and he still can't let it go, he did this to himself, I called him an emotionaless robot.
I know a couple where she is the grandiose narcissist and he's the covert one. They are married for over 45 years now and she talks down to him, ridicules and yelling at him, betrayed him and he's adoring her until today, putting up with all of her crap and defend her if the two sons were trying to side with their father, then he rages at the sons. Both sons are estranged from the parents.
I was wondering about this very thing this afternoon. This is perfect timing. I have to make sure my alerts are on because I should have seen this last week. I'll share it with myself and download it because I need to watch it later on when all narcissists are gone home
Great video. Love the clinical break down of your analogy. Not being a mental health professional, this answers many questions, and have seen this same exact senerio play out in real life... Thank you again for your work.
The VN is going to be more miserable. Great topic. Wish there could be more on the dynamics of this kind of couples esp GN with the VN. Thank you Dr Grande.
I have been looking for this topic for a long time. It's very interesting the way you explained it. My own personal opinion is that one of the narcs will "out-do" the other, therefore causing an argument(s). All in all, I believe they have a slim chance of being together forever. I still think one of them, or both, will cheat and lie, but it will be overlooked by the other. They are still narcissists and I doubt if they can be faithful. Great listening to you.
Read the other comments, these people are together 20, 30, 40 and even more than 50 years in this comment section alone. Somehow narcissists are able to stay together, but “normal” people aren’t… 😅
About this topic of 'what if two narcissists got together': there is no "what if" with this - it really happens, and let me tell you how disastrous and devastating it plays out. Two narcissists getting together is hell: I am the product of two malignant narcissists as parents, and come from a narcissistic family tree that is rotten to the core and needed to be chopped down in my life. I consider myself a graft, or something: I have barely survived this, and others have not. Two narcissists who get together often have children to use and exploit for and as supply - as well as pets - and these narcissists participate in horrendous and insurmountable child abuse, maltreatment, and neglect. Please, please, please: get this. The relationship between the two narcissists often only last together depending upon how much supply that they are still deriving from the offspring and pets - who they often see as slaves to them. Please read Elan Golomb's "Trapped In the Mirror" if you haven't, yet.
I realized my exes family treat people as pets to abuse. One "family party" i looked around ... There was the mean dad with his dopey friend that follows him everwhere and takes his abuse, there was the quiet awkward twinkish boyfriend of his sis..whom she bossed around and made him dote on her... Then there was another abused friend of his brother .. the shit min pins they just scream at... And then there I was... And im sitting there thinking.. "am I his fucking pet?????" That family.. and my own are very trying. Right now they are all ignoring me bc i refuse to believe that plandemic supreme narc abuse narrative. 🧐🤔😔 Oh well, good riddence to bad rubbish. 🙏👍
4:41 Sure they change. If the other person figures them out. They will learn by the criticism how to hide it more In the next relationship. No doubt. Repeat. Eventually they will be quite skilled with all the feedback
My dad suffers from narcissistic tendencies. He was the youngest child and spoiled. His father never taught him to be a "man" and babied his actions into adulthood. He treats his kids as if they're a competition/sibling. He's attracted to empathetic women but they usually leave him. Now he committed to a woman with a borderline disorder and is even more narcisstic than he is. My siblings and i no longer speak to him to much because she gets jealous of any affection he gives to his family even though he rarely shows it to his kids anyways....
Both of my parents are narcissists and my dad has a psychopathic personality. I’ve been in therapy for about 10 years now and go weekly. My dad wreaked havoc on our family and my mom let it happen.
My parents are narcs. My mom being the grandiose and my dad being the vulnerable narc. Definitely lots of arguments. My dad being emotional unstable and alot of anger issues. ☹️
This has to be like, lifetime movie at its best! When to get together it has be very superficial and illusions of perfect from looking from the outside. I seen this before. Very dramatic
Arrgh.. Good talks on Narcissism, but describing my ex and his family to a T, with good insights into how and why we failed to stay together. The only facet I would disagree with would be that the partner who is the narcissist will say a lot, but at the same be unable to be articulate about their hopes and feelings - while my experience was and has been, when as a logical and agreeable person I was gaslighted by the narcisissist ex and his family, I was left speechless and unable to comprehend the "alternate parallel reality" that they seemed to live in. In the end, I was "too boring" to the narcissist who felt that world was how the world functioned.
This makes sense. I know a couple that has a vulnerable handicap spouse that is arrogant and pessimistic as well as insecure.the other is optimistic only regardless of reality, controls other , bold ,knows everything in their opinion. Wow !
Boy oh boy. I am a covert narcissist and starting dating an overt one. That's when I learned.. I am a narcissist and I'm getting karma. Boy did that end badly, I was emotionally abused, it was like being abused by myself. Controlling, insults, yelling, using vulnerable things I've told him in each argument..
Hi Doc. Could you do a show on “normal” couples. What are some good characteristics of a healthy relationship? That sort of thing. I hope it wouldn’t be too boring but maybe compare and contrast with unhealthy actions and give a little general advice. Also maybe compare what the relationship should start to look like as it progresses thru the ages. Such as a honeymoon period , 10 yr mark, 20 yr mark and so on. Thanks in advance. Love your channel.
Thank you Dr Grande, for your dedication & extremely well thought out educational vlogs.. that make it possible for us layman to follow!! This is another, I shall watch more than once... as it's sometimes difficult to quiet the mind from joining 'the' dots! I am quite interested in the accumulative factors of exposure to various toxic personality traits within romantic or close relationships. The breeding or resurrection of toxicity, born from accumulative exposure to dark triad type traits or other cluster B personality traits... I shall have to dig through your library.. again! 😊 The more I learn, the more questions I develop. Thanks again Doc! 🐛 📚 🦋
My friend, who is a covert narc, dated a guy who an overt one. They had so many arguments and fight all the time they were together. But they really matched each other. Eventually my cov friend left him but for 13 years!!!!! he's been trying to get her back. Even though he married during that period and moved to another country. He was ready to leave everything for her. If she hadn't left him, they could be one of those couples who'd have a lot of passion (in a good and bad meaning) and who might probably die the same day (because of constant fights). Do I sound passive-aggressive by thinking like that? P.S. Thanks, JP Sears, for making me more conscious about my flaws:)))
Awww, the two grandiose narcissists almost sound sweet together. You can imagine two people throwing careless insults at each other in the morning and walking away oblivious and not remotely affected. Or having long ‘chats’ where the two listen to themselves talk and walk away thinking the other is impressed. AND they wouldn’t be available to hurt some innocent soul, effectively removing two toxic partners from society.
Kids...
Yeah... no... I mean, as Aleksandra W points out, it might work out well for society if they didn't have children. My grandiose narcissistic parents did seem sweet enough often enough that I grew up under the illusion that I had a happy childhood. They were optimistic and very confident, as Dr. Grande says, but they fought a lot with complete disrespect toward one another, calling each other names and demonstrating hatred, never learning anything from any of the fights. Then they told us kids to take sides and join them in invalidating the other parent. I always taking sides and getting super angry, while my little sister cried. I grew up hating dad because he was more overtly aggressive whilst mum was covertly manipulative, "softer", so to speak. Eventually I learned that mum's tactics were just as morally reprehensible as dad's. Society thinks they are a successful couple because they are still together.
Olivia12333 until they have children
One will kill the other
imagine what happens to the children of these sick people. my parents are those people.
Being with a narcissist made me understand I was one, because all of a sudden I felt for the first time I had not power over someone. At first it was like we were high on drugs, in the love bombing fase just because of the execcesive supply. Later on, when the boredom started, let me tell you it ended all very badly!
Thank you so much Mr. Grande, you are one of the biggest reasons I pushed my self to go into therapy. I am vulnerable narcissist with a lot of BPD traits. You are helping the world!
Greetings from Greece 🇬🇷
The same thing happened to me
I’m in a similar situation. I’m in a relationship with a narcissist and didn’t know. First I found out that I’m one and slowly but surely realized she is too and now it all makes sense. I don’t kneel what to do
Anyone who says “I am one” is likely not.
Look at Codependency, Borderline, enmeshment, trauma-bonding
Me I'm not sure if he's narcissistic but he kinda is... Probably just somewhere in the spectrum idk but he can say sorry and be humble, but there are times he really act resistant to criticisms and is very insecure he is even afraid that I'm loving a novel series over him... And we been in a rollercoaster relationship I start questioning what he really is and what really I am too... I constantly tried to understand his personality then my personality, then from that, I realized I am actually partly narcissistic as well... I realized I actually know how to manipulate people too, I'm insecure too and afraid of criticisms... But I don't think I have the disorder, probably just going close to it. I'm doing better now, gives me hope narcissists can actually be better but it depends on how narcissistic they are and how willing they are to do so.
@@amarylisseserenity6993 look at Dr. Grande’s videos on BPD.
It's a misnomer that narcs cannot apologize. Many cannot. Some can, but not for the same reasons functional people do.
My parents were both narcissistic, were miserable for 50+ years together. My childhood was horrible. The tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife. I was terrified of my cruel father my entire life, not physically but emotionally. My mother’s disdain for him resulted in not only the silent treatment but almost a hissing quality if she addressed him. His rage was taken out on others, namely me or his employees. His only empathy was for people who were strangers. It was warped. They were both entirely disconnected from each other, were superficial, were weird. Everything was appearances, period. To say I am screwed up is an understatement BUT I am a fighter and fought my way through, got therapy, am constantly learning. Thank you for videos on this subject! There is always more to learn and understand, even at age 70!
I’m 70 too. My story is similar , I did corrective parenting therapy in my late 30’s early 40’s.
It’s so hard to ever be normal. I’m some version of them, too.....
Me too
This sounds like my childhood. My father and stepmother would argue over everything!!!
My biological mother was a cluster B Borderline....now I'm BPD/ CPTSD...major abandonment wounds...my sister is an overt Narc/ Histrionic...its generational due to how we atre raised
My parents were both narcs too..😫
Soap operas for narcissists: "As The World Turns Around Me", "The Days of My Life", "The Bolder and More Beautiful", "General of the Hospital", "All My Wealthy Children".
Funny!
And, last but not least -- "Look how together we all are and progressively manly too some of us because we unlike any others who cannot afford the time to spend for only watching soap operas and look how we can actually enjoy watching those soap operas instead of looking all worried while doing so or instead of most of the time looking worried and tired out while riding the bus too".
😂😂
And the classic, "Dork Shadows".
"All _MY_ Children"
The best part about two narcissists being together is that that means two less narcissists in the pool.
however, the worst part is probably if they have kids. Those children will very likely have an incredibly abusive childhood
Think Kim and Kanye and their kids.
Yes, thank you. I did.
i had a covert narcissist mom and a malignant narcissist stepdad. i cannot stress enough how destructive ppl are with this disorder. they were married for nearly 20 yrs and accomplished NOTHING!!
Well, your mom successfully created an insightful, introspective and apparently normal human being. Survivor is a given...and that's huge, I know...
Vuln narc mom asd/narc father ✌
@@JudeScott007 😂😂😂😂 nope 👎…..That was dna 🧬 that did that… generations of 🧬 Click on in the brain 🧠. However most never switch ON…😞 You just die 💀 Obvious 🧠
Wow...just described me and my wife....throw in some alcoholism and substance abuse .....
This pairing do have at least one okay child, but also a lot financially, although it’s always illegal.
As a borderliner/vulnerable narcissist I fell into relationships with grandiose narcissists over and over again before I went into therapy. I truly believe you dont attract what you want, but you attract what you are. Unless you do a lot of self-work and are willing to go against your instincts these patterns will repeat over and over.
@@marlinadykema6474 maybe codependent?
Borderline and narcissist are not the same personality, the core is very different, do not confusing people
@@marlinadykema6474 she sounds like a covert narcissist. They always play the devil's advocate in every situation, because it helps them devalue your choices covertly. Part of them would actually would want you to remain with a disordered person so that they can watch you break down, but part of them doesn't want to lose you as their server and punching bag. Many children of narcs become people pleasers and get into relationships with narcs/ other cluster Bs because there's no understanding of good boundaries and healthy behaviour and a habituation to bad, unhealthy behaviour. We accept because that's often what we know.
song song borderline and narcissistic personality disorders can be (and often are) comorbid. That is, a person can have more than one personality disorder or, for that matter, mental illness. Dr Grande talks about comorbid personality disorders frequently. Rob Cazant is not misleading anyone.
Rob Cazant kudos to you for having the courage to go into therapy. How has it worked for you?
Ya they do attract each other but the relationship is chaotic and fake.
So its one big clusterfuck of a relationship
you are who you attract...shit gonna be toxic af
.. it´s like watching in a horror mirror... you learn or you get beaten instantly by life :-)
Oh yes. Chaotic only behind closed doors where there will be no witnesses outside of their immediate family, parents and siblings too unless both are narcissistic or at least one of them is showing early signs of dementia.
For a long time I thought my father was a victim of my mother’s rage and control. But I realized that he needed that “burden” and realized all the ways he covertly parentified me and can act very much like a narcissist. But their life goals align, so it has worked for over 40 years. They both have a need to be leaders and teachers. My father is an ordained minister and my mother a former Texas beauty queen with a talent for singing on stage. They were the preaching circuit power couple. Never able to establish a long standing relationship with any church community, but ever the guest preacher/speaker and his gospel singing wife. They had complete control over me until I left their home at age thirty. My sister still lives with them at age forty. I felt like I had escaped a cult, almost twelve years ago now.
I believe one of my parents is a Grandiose and the other is a Vulnerable. I have hardly ever seen them not fighting. Particularly when you take into account my older brother. I keep my distance from them all as much as possible, but it's incredible to behold the amount of energy they have for it and the hours and hours per day they can devote to shouting. I am the opposite of them and I hate to argue. I am always working hard on my boundaries. I've made a lot of progress thankfully.
What resources do you recommend for boundaries work?
Henry Cloud & John Townsend wrote a now-classic book, "Boundaries" -- quite helpful, I think...?
@@tuck-brainwks-eutent-hidva1098
Got it. Wondering about others.
@@natashamudford4011 I recommend therapy and distance and reading lots of books, articles and watching lots of youtube videos. Also, reevaluating your life such as career, friendships, etc. Know your values and your nature and aim towards a life that respects them as much as possible. Try to become as financially indepedent as possible. It can be a long process but having goals to aim for is one of the most positive ways of living.
@@Antonocon
Hey, I just noticed your user name. Are you someone I used to work with at DFW?
I love your educational and entertaining yet not sensationalist way of dealing with these subjects. I have put this into my watch later list for bedtime. Your videos go into my must watch, not my might watch lists. X
yea he and dr Ramini are my two fav experts!
as someone with ADHD the idea of further dividing the "watch later" category into "must watch" and "might watch" sounds GENIUS and I'm mad I didn't think of it myself before. game changer.
I would like to see a lot more videos from you on C-PTSD as it relates to child abuse, and particularly child abuse that is from a narcissist or antisocial personality disorder parent. More on how childhood sexual abuse effects survivors would be helpful too. Thank you.
Honestly, having them together saves other people from narcissistic abuse but if you happen to be an ex of one of them, expect your life to be hell.
Unless you're their scapegoat. Then its like the narcissist mafia put a hit out on you.
I think my husband is a narcissist but I also have to admit that I want him to completely focus on me when we spend time together. I am not sure who is worse, but realizing everything I complain about I do too was a huge wake up call for me. We some how make it work because as self centered as we are, we talk all these ugly things out and admit we are eachother's mirror.
The observation I've made is that Narcissist rarely maintain a constant relationship, except in the case of the vulnerable narcissist. Then as you say, its superficial.
My maiden name was Susannah Sheppard! I just had to comment since Susan Shepard is so close!
Yes the vulnerable Narcissist loves that long term steady relationship cause there’s strong dependency traits involved too... Mommy issues or Daddy issues!!!... STOP caretaking the Narcissist!!
Very true, that's my mom. Codependency although acts completely dependant. My father asd/narc and was the strong provider type whilst being angry rages frightening and could turn violent but always when he blew felt threatening. She should have left but values the provider part and being married and having children (into this environment! ) more. She should have left and not had children. Giving material things doesn't Compensate for respect safety and sanity!!
i was born to two narcissists and haven't even realized until now, i'm 18 and i only realized my mom was completely like my dad who i already knew was a narcissist, 2 days ago. she let the covert mask fall when i finally told her i was leaving. as if her morphing into my father in my dreams wasnt enough evidence for me lmaooo. i really wish people would stop acting like narcissists cant be together, so many people are stuck with narcissists not realizing how awful they are just because of the misconception that they can never be together.
I’m actually relatively introverted. I like extroverts sometimes. They are so talented at keeping me engaged. But over time, their need for interaction can be exhausting. So I suspect I’m best suited to more introverted people, but I do admire and enjoy extroverts. They’re very attractive people and seem genuinely interested in all my boring stuff. And they tell the best stories. Most I’ve met are so nice
Dr. Grande, IMO: you definitely have found your groove in the "videos in less than 15 minutes category". Very Effective!
Time to grab the popcorn and lazyboy and view this one! 👍
Yess
you grab the lazyboy?
@@kristoffseisler2163 of course its soft supple leather🤓
Most people here come to learn, not to be entertained.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
A bird of a feather flocks together as they say!
Sadly I had to see this type of relationship with my own eyes. My older sibling's relationships kept failing until she met a guy who happens to exhibit similar traits as her, which happens to be narcissistic.
I told a vulnerable narcissist to stop complaining about her grandiose narcissist. No surprise, I’ve been given the silent treatment forever. It’s actually a relief.
My parents were narcissists and I was the "people-pleasing" scapegoat. Dr. Grande, could you look at how some adult children of narc parents recover from narc abuse, especially how they learn to become more assertive and less "agreeable" over time - in a healthy way, like changes on the OCEAN test over time healing from narc abuse?
@Alice Star You need to know that two narcissists are capable of being married especially if one's covert and the other's grandiose/overt. My comment doesn't come from being unable to have a decent perspective.
My parents both have narcissistic traits and lack empathy for other people. The only thing I've ever seen them truly bond over was abusing me. It gives me peace to know that behind closed doors, their relationship could be miserable, but they're both too proud to ever admit it or maybe even realize it.
Wow this video is so informative. I think my husband and I are both narcissistic. I used to think it was only him but maybe its the both of us. It's definitely not a relationship to envy but it works for us because we understand each other and what we are and aren't capable of.
I respect your candour. I'm curious how the relationship is going
I'm separated but I now realize that I'm a vulnerable narcissist, and my wife is a grandiose narcissist.
Me too
You're no narcissist...
A true narcissist doesn't posses the ability to introspect in order to realise that they are indeed, narcissistic. Plus, even if they somehow did, they wouldn't admit it.
Being narcissistic is nothing to glorify or romanticize either. It's a destructive mental disorder that serves no-one any good.
@@lillymckinnon7853 right lol I’m like nvm
This is the most accurate video available on this topic in my opinion. The grandiose / vulnerable couple was spot on.
I know a pair of vulnerable narcissists that have been together for over 15 years. He’s a little more overt than she is, but they’re both introverted (though she tries to be extroverted). I’m not around them anymore, but the years I was around them was pure chaos. They’re constantly either teaming up together against other people or they’re tearing each other’s throats out. The only way they bond is by picking on other people behind their backs. They’re a pretty miserable couple to be around but both of them are terrified of being single. They’ve both tried to cheat on each other, he was completely unsuccessful, she was only moderately successful (she’d sleep around with hopes that the guy would want to date her the next morning but that never happened). I’m glad to be away from them bc I was frequently a target of theirs. She had been my best friend since kindergarten, I introduced her to him bc he was a friend in high school. They were both messed up people in their own way beforehand, but once together a complete monster was born.
Their kids would be doomed if this were the case.
It depends on the person I think.
Both my father’s parents were narcissistic and he actually turned out great. No thanks to them of course.
Alice Darque - people-pleasing is common in victims of narcissists.
BPD mom and NPD step dad(likely a sociopath), also I lived through her other strings of NPD men before she settled on my step dad(got pregnant).
All of us have mental health issues due to their parenting;
Big bro_ NPD(likely a sociopath)
_ sex predator(molested a child,was grooming another one n I warned the mom to watch out,almost raped a maid but she screamed and someone saved her, coercive to a female relative and when she wouldn't give in he verbally and emotionally abused her for months until I told him I knew and I would tell on him,was usually touchy n leery in a weird way to me until I stopped being near him alone,lil sis also avoided him due to this)alcoholism,depression,very short lived relationships,low self esteem,missing or dead since 2012.
Me_codependency(abusive relationships),depression,anxiety,smoker,almost became an alcoholic,people pleaser
Lil Sis_ unavailable relationships,codependency,almost became an alcoholic, depression n anxiety
Lil Bro_ depression,fear of expressing himself,fear of being gay bc he craves positive male interractions bc he never had one, low self esteem,he's still young n sis n i offer validation so he doesn't narc out.
But alot of people in the extended family were given the impression they were awesome parents with difficult children. To this day if I see a parent moaning about a child,I wonder if it's really the child or a narcissist parent.
@Alice Darque Thank God you came out Empathetic, my mom is Narcissistic, my dad her puppet. I'm an Empathic person, I was the Black Sheep and the only girl I have 3 brothers..
@Alice Darque I agree with you 100%. Narcissism is spreading like like cancer. I feel the same way about relationships, I'm focusing on my self and my mental illness, a relationship is only going to add more anxiety and stress to what I'm already trying to deal with and fix.
I love the educational component in your videos! It's reassuring to me while I am learning this new topic in my life. All I can say is thank you.
Home from work and Dr. Grande has posted. ❤
Wow, Dr. Grande. There’s a certain couple I know and I’ve always said they are perfect for each other in all the wrong ways. You helped me understand why 🙏
You’re more than a Queen. Not that a Queen is limiting
because that’s the highest highness
of a most intelligent courageous beauty
amongst women.
You do embody a perfect emanating expression of a Queen.
The icing on the cake is your Divine limitlessness
that is in tune with her being. You’re evolution.
Thank you for sharing and expressing.
I sense your passion for yourself
and your passion for standing for justice
of your worth.
I’m grateful for the love you have for yourself.
You’re badass.
Oh wow. Totally described my marriage. We've been together for over 15yrs. Wife is grandiose or let's say high extraversion, low agreeableness, low neuroticism, histrionic type. I am very high Openness, low agreeableness, high neuroticism medium to low extraversion... our relationship is a constant war and struggle. We don't see us as a true couple; but two absolute individuals in a... war. But somehow... we manage to carry on. We're attracted to eachother; maybe because we're both successful, good looking, desirable, etc. but in our own and different ways. (The ONE hugely binding element is our kids though. We love our kids). But on an individual basis, if I wanted to make my wife jealous it is very easy, and viceversa. I don't know if I'm fully narcissistic, but definitely have some traits...
I have wondered if it could be both of us. I'm working on my bad traits like being a people pleaser now.
I developed the bad traits over decades with her.
She admits nothing she has done and refuses to learn anything that would improve our situation.
We're going through the divorce process now after 38 years of marriage.
I sympathize with anyone else who is in this or a similar situation.
Best wishes
@@decoy2636 agree. It is a difficult situation, especially if kids are involved because that makes everything exponentially more complicated. I don't think anybody needs to be a "people pleaser", the fact you think this way means there's definitely something not right somewhere..... good luck.
For us the divorce is basically on a countdown.... not sure exactly when it's going to happen. But every day seems more and more likely it's sooner and not later... very difficult situation.
I would love for you to do a video on the inverted narcissist! I know it's not an official form of narcissism but this concept finally helped me understand the dynamic between my mother and father after over 25 years. I knew my father was a grandiose narcissist for a few years, and I knew there was something terribly wrong with my mother and I read so much information trying to put my finger on it but I could not figure it out. I just could not understand her. When I read about inverted narcissism it made so much sense! If you're not familiar, the inverted narcissist is a vunerable or covert narcissist that actively and exclusively seeks out and engages in romantic relationships with other narcissists, typically grandiose or overt. The concept is essentially that somehow the grandiose false self in the inverted narcissist never develops, leaving their catastrophically low self esteem bared for them to consciously experience. They think that they are special and unique in a sense that "nobody is as terrible as me", "nobody has failed as greatly as I have", "nobody suffers as much as I do", "nobody is as unattractive as I am" and that sort of thing...and no one is special or unique enough to be able to relate to or understand them and their misery. For that reason, the narcissistic injury and their narcissistic rage appear when they feel someone has challenged them on how terrible they are or how miserable their life is. All my life, my mother has constantly put herself down and depreciated herself, alot of times saying to me how much smarter, or creative, or more attractive, or morally good I am than her. Then she reacts with anger and rage and retaliation schemes any time I have tried to encourage her or reassure her or bring up her positive qualities. She complains about how miserable and terrible her life is on a daily basis, no matter the circumstances, and gets angry if I try to offer positive comments of hope that things will or could get better. Even if I offer her a compliment on something she has done, she gets frustrated, shuts me down, and insists how awful of a job she did. She absolutely must be the victim in all situations and circumstances. Lots of people are uncomfortable taking compliments and flattery (I am one) but this isn't that. It's an unwillingness to allow anyone to even slightly challenge her negative perceptions of herself, and red hot anger if they continue or are persistent. I have never been able to wrap my mind around it until I read about the concept of inverted narcissism. Inverted narcissists solely seek out grandiose narcissists as partners is essentially for exactly the reason that you discussed near the end of this video- because of her(or his) incredibly low self esteem and with no grandiose false self to cover it up, she doesn't think that she, by herself, is worthy or capable of ANY success, power, beauty, or love, but at the same time, since she is a narcissist, those fantasies are something she desperately wants. So she attaches herself to a grandiose narcissist who does have those fantasies and derives all of her self worth from supporting him in his endeavors towards making those fantasies reality. She gets her narcissistic supply from people giving him attention, or admiration, or praise. Like you said, she lives completely vicariously through him and she is very enmeshed and codependent. I would love to hear any thoughts/comments/observations you have on this concept and relationship dynamic!!! 😊😊
Wow! That is completely new to me but it makes so much sense.
You would think 2 Narcissistic individuals coupled in a romantic relationship could be “competing” since a primary trait of Narcissism is “self-absorption, entitlement & self-centeredness” are common to all types.
This videos help me sort out my parents marriage. My father is dead but always kept his life as a secret because he was bisexual and decades ago it was very shameful. And my mom is too much in denial now to have a fruitful conversation. I piece together the physical abuse,infidelity, dishonesty and neglect and I try to find the causes.
THE VIDEO I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR!!!!!!!! Thank you thank you thank you 😃😃😃 . Can you please do some videos on each of these couples having children?!
That would be interesting as this Falls right into the category of my daughter
Omgoodness I can't imagine
They don't really want children.
@@senzameta10 speaking for my daughter she told me she does not want kids because of the fact that she's bipolar and toxic. I have known other people and your kids are always in trouble
@@senzameta10 ppl have kids for all the wrong reasons. Like there narcissists who have a baby just for attention and could care less about the kid once it not cute. Or to show others how perfect they're family is. Or to better manipulate their partner.
Thank you so much for this video. It helped me understand the dynamics of my parents. I really needed this.
Both your parents are narcissists? are you a narcissist? genuinely curious
@@Aaron-kj8dv many children of both narc parents are empathetic... It's not genetic.
@@Aaron-kj8dv my father, step mother, mother, and step father are unfortunately all narcissists. I left and never looked back because it was so painful. I'm greatful to be incredibly empathetic. I believe they taught me exactly what not to do. I understand the curiosity.
@@brusselsprout5851 thank you ♡
@@meera2531 I'm grateful for sure that it's not genetic
After four decades with her, I sure had many traits to rubb off on me. I found the initial knowledge about narcissism revolting until I learned since I truly felt empathy after all. There is hope I just keep trying to reprogram in to a better me. I pity her as she sees no need to improve. I will be better for the experience.
So much rings a bell here in this video.
Can you do a video on couples who both have PTSD? If you could do PTSD due to combat, that would be great.
Hi Alli, Have read David Bercelli's book on Trauma Release?
Thank God someone is finally saying this. Both my parents were dark triad personalities. Neither of them had any concept of love whatsoever
Dr. Grande, one of the things that I consistently enjoy about your videos is your interpretation of data and creative analysis. Being able to listen to you talk about denser material, breaking down the components and all the little details is fascinating. Your creative interpretation and ability to jump through hoops and elaborate is only second to your academic ability. I have watched a lot of your videos starting from the beginning, even the CBT skits and math videos. IMHO, Your recent vids have become a bit repetitive. Kind of like a softer spoken Philip Defranco that attempts comedy once and a while. The decent comedy on your channel has been successful because it contrasts to dry, dense or intellectual content. Less is more. Being able to see a tiny sparkle of personality every once in a while is nice, but when you try so hard that you’re not even yourself anymore, and you’re faking it to a crowd, we can see it. That being said, I’m excited to see what content you make in the future.
You explained my folks 🥴🥴🥴🥴 Man they gave so many innerchild trauma 😬😬😬 my brother passed in 2018 due to depression and alcohol. I survived because I found shamans ❤️❤️
Peace for your brother. 🙏
Thank You So Very Much
For Explaining Narcissism
I Have Learned So Much From
Watching Your Videos.
You Have Helped Me So Much.
Happy that i don't have my narcissist fiancé anymore in my life! I prefer a peaceful relationship with real love than a narcissist who makes me suffer and is toxic firstly for himself and then for me and the others. But he doesn't give a shit for the other people! Stay away from toxic people! Life is beautiful, enjoy it!
I was in the middle of a video when I got this notification, I dropped everything and click on the video. I like your style informative without putting people down. You talk to us like we are all adults I love that and that I really interesting video
I've seen this first hand and family members and their relationship, it's nice to see it from your side on what's going on help me understand their motivations. My daughter is bipolar so I see this a lot in her.
I know a couple like this. She was grandiose, he is vulnerable. They tore each other apart over 9 months until they discarded each other.
Just the title of this blew my mind. It sounded quite scary and dangerous. I couldn't wait to listen.
You are by far one of the most intelligent Doctors ive seen speak about narcissism. You are very specific and I learn so much from you. Thank you for making these videos this is helping me tremendously through by breakup with my narc. I have been Narc free for 2 weeks! :)
Both my mom and dad are narcissists...my dad is overt and my mom is covert(vulnerable)...they divorced bc they both began getting physically abusive with one another.. they had three kids together...the oldest became the golden child the middle was partial scapegoated and partial golden...and I was partial scapegoated and partial invisible...the middle child( my bro)!became narcissistic...my sister became a judgemental overachiever and I became borderline....my bro and sis live real close to my parents...I moved to Maine...33 hours away from their bullshit and ive started my true healing... forgiving myself for all the pain I passed to people and all the hurt I caused to strangers, my family, myself, my friends...just healing fr
Heal well🙏 and huzzah for your strength and bravery!!! 🥳🤗
I was looking forward to an answer to this question for a while. Thanks so much Dr. Grande.
Very informative! The relationship where both are covert narcissists fits the description of what I am going through. I knew I was a narcissist when I met my current girlfriend and I was open about it, but she hadn't discovered herself yet, she seemed OCD to me at first, a very atypical person. But after the veil fell, if started to feel like hell. I feel like I only hear the criticism from her and that she brushes my compliments under the carpet, besides there's no day where I am not being told about the things I do wrong and I have been criticized in the most colorful ways possible. A few days ago, I left, but it's so hard. The codependency is real and my desire for control makes me resent the idea of her ever being with someone else.
And as she puts it, it feels like there is nothing that connects us - no common goals or interests, no perspective on the future, only misery and staring into the abyss of our bad fortune.
I had hoped for brighter days in our relationship. Now I only hope to find peace within myself.
Sounds like a pretty sad relationship ...
It is. For everyone that has to be anywhere near it. Mostly speaking about children.
Yes
Maybe yes. But from his description, it sounds like they’d feel ok with it.
@@illyillyill oh yeah these two should never have kids.
My best friend and long time roommate and I both appear to share the same personality pathologies. Likely cluster A, (my therapist suspects I’m an A-C mix- I have some C traits. I don’t know if he does, but he doesn’t seem to, by dr grande’s description)
He’s my best friend in the entire history of my life. We’re both weird, we’re both kind of into doing our own thing, but we know when to converge and do the things we mutually enjoy. His beliefs and interests differ greatly from mine, but we have a few things we share in common. And we love sharing them. He’s also a congenial person. It’s a pleasant friendship. As he says “there is no pushing or pulling. There is just sailing.”
I know his negative traits and he knows mine, but we’re ok with it. And we try to mitigate them. And we make it work.
Sometimes you need a weirdo who is weird in the same way you’re weird.
His description of all this cluster B drama sounds exhausting.
What’s really bad is having two covert narcissistic parents who have empathic kids. Talk about potential in a human being lost when born into that. I think now a-days research drives better therapy but not so long ago few professionals knew what to do with this adult child. Sometimes parents just do too much damage, and I’ve seen it happen too many times.
Realistically - that child at least does better so their children will also do better. It takes generations to heal in some cases, but the ones committed to doing the work, regardless of their own benefits or lack thereof - are the ones who begin the path back to wellness.
@P3as C3rrots
Good for you. 🌷. It is a hard thing to identify but maybe one day they will see it and choose to put some distance in there as well.
Hot dayum! This was an interesting one.
For many years now I have been trying to work out the make-up of my ex. Your videos finally cleared the view. He is a narc. Thank you. Needless to say, I am still recovering, the aftermath was a handful, but information like this helps a lot.
Do you have videos explaining
1 grandiose narcicist vs vulnerable narcicist?
2 And covert narcicist vs overt narcicist?
3 Narcicism and bullying(and not just school,working space too)
If not,it would be awesome if you did.
I havent watched this video yet,
but to me it makes the most sense that a narcicist is looking for a vulnerable victim type,
the type he or she can controll and dominate.
It makes the most sense that a narcicist and another narcicist dont go too well together.
They both want to controll the other.
So basicly survival of the fittest,may the best narcicist win.
You know the company i work at has many narcicists.
Two colleagues in particulair.
One is more an overt bully and more overtly agressive when he gets critique.
The other is way more covert.He is more nice in the face but behind your back he tries to set up other colleagues against you.
One is more overtly agressive,while the other is more covertly manipulating.
Ive noticed and interesting dynamic between the two.
One the one hand they just cant stand each other,their narcicim absolutely collides.
But on the other hand,they are almost like a father and a son.
They are like a dreamteam that both make it their mission to bully anyone to the point of leaving the company.
Its just weird.
They attract,and yet they collide.
They are a team,and yet at other times they really do hate each others guts.
Im grandiose so is my long time partner. We deserve each other and it works for us. We feel independent and like that we support each other's goals. Our long term goals align and we have been VERY successful in our business and personal lives. We are attractive and enjoy each other's company and work great together on a team. even if many of our connections are based on meeting eachothers "superficial" needs. I do not think either of us could (or should) attempt to maintain a long term romantic relationship with someone who doesn't also have extroverted narcissist traits. We deserve to be happy and follow our dreams and this is the best set up for us to accomplish these goals for both of us. Yes we love eachother
This describes these 2 coworkers who think people don't notice that behind their quietness, they have something going on.
In their case its the guy who is the pessimistic, quiet, might be chaotic one while the female is the outspoken one and nonempathetic (the true narc, all about money and what anyone can do for her - the gimme gimme type) and watching from a distance I can sense she has him in some form of control where he's holding back his feelings while she's looking like there's nothing going on.
What's really sad is, it seems he may have interest in me and notice I'm a better choice but its like she have a hold on him like an abused trained dog who knows better not to eat from no one else's hand!
Well, king and queen rarely live harmoniously in the same castle. It's more than odd that narcissists tend to flock together. Thank you Dr Grande. 🌹👍
although in a way makes sense the initial attraction, if they have each gathered some social prestige and image. think of the idea of a "power couple" Rightly or wrongly they see each other as a good candidate "whoa, we are both so great, together we can be a power couple". Like what he says about the fantasy about being special and reinforcing that for one another.
I was wondering if you could do some sort of follow up video on this? My mother is a covert narcissist while my dad is a overt narcissist. They've been divorced since I was like 3, I'm 19 now. I switched back and forth seeing my dad every other weekend, while mainly staying with my mom. I had a lot of emotional neglect and any time I spoke badly to either side of my family, they took my parents' sides. I'm seeing a therapist, but honestly have never felt like anyone could understand what it's like. I have basically no self empathy or compassion yet I could give it freely to almost anything else. Edit: my mother became more of her narcissist self after the divorce, she was more of a codependent at first. Seeing my grandma have to take care of my alcoholic at the time grandfather while also dealing with 3 other brothers was a lot. I can't help seeing her as a victim sometimes but she's also said things even my therapist couldn't believe she was hearing i told her. 2nd edit: my dad's father left him, his mother, and their 2 other kids when my dad was young. They were basically homeless living in a car. He was the oldest and ended up becoming a bully to his siblings yet the bullied at school. He was in the army for a bit, and for me as a child he didn't know how to treat me other than a soldier.
Sounds like my ex husband, his dad was a drill instructor and he was treated like a soldier, he treated me and kids like we were in the military, don't be like him, I got out after 10 years & it's been 7 years and he still can't let it go, he did this to himself, I called him an emotionaless robot.
If we all agree they should never be allowed to have children then they have my blessing
I know a couple where she is the grandiose narcissist and he's the covert one. They are married for over 45 years now and she talks down to him, ridicules and yelling at him, betrayed him and he's adoring her until today, putting up with all of her crap and defend her if the two sons were trying to side with their father, then he rages at the sons.
Both sons are estranged from the parents.
Dr. Grande- thank you for schooling me so that I can still relax when multiple people, are trying to manipulate disinformation about me.
I was wondering about this very thing this afternoon. This is perfect timing. I have to make sure my alerts are on because I should have seen this last week. I'll share it with myself and download it because I need to watch it later on when all narcissists are gone home
Great video. Love the clinical break down of your analogy. Not being a mental health professional, this answers many questions, and have seen this same exact senerio play out in real life...
Thank you again for your work.
The VN is going to be more miserable. Great topic. Wish there could be more on the dynamics of this kind of couples esp GN with the VN. Thank you Dr Grande.
I have been looking for this topic for a long time. It's very interesting the way you explained it. My own personal opinion is that one of the narcs will "out-do" the other, therefore causing an argument(s). All in all, I believe they have a slim chance of being together forever. I still think one of them, or both, will cheat and lie, but it will be overlooked by the other. They are still narcissists and I doubt if they can be faithful. Great listening to you.
Read the other comments, these people are together 20, 30, 40 and even more than 50 years in this comment section alone. Somehow narcissists are able to stay together, but “normal” people aren’t… 😅
About this topic of 'what if two narcissists got together': there is no "what if" with this - it really happens, and let me tell you how disastrous and devastating it plays out.
Two narcissists getting together is hell: I am the product of two malignant narcissists as parents, and come from a narcissistic family tree that is rotten to the core and needed to be chopped down in my life.
I consider myself a graft, or something: I have barely survived this, and others have not.
Two narcissists who get together often have children to use and exploit for and as supply - as well as pets - and these narcissists participate in horrendous and insurmountable child abuse, maltreatment, and neglect.
Please, please, please: get this.
The relationship between the two narcissists often only last together depending upon how much supply that they are still deriving from the offspring and pets - who they often see as slaves to them.
Please read Elan Golomb's "Trapped In the Mirror" if you haven't, yet.
I realized my exes family treat people as pets to abuse. One "family party" i looked around ... There was the mean dad with his dopey friend that follows him everwhere and takes his abuse, there was the quiet awkward twinkish boyfriend of his sis..whom she bossed around and made him dote on her... Then there was another abused friend of his brother .. the shit min pins they just scream at... And then there I was... And im sitting there thinking.. "am I his fucking pet?????" That family.. and my own are very trying. Right now they are all ignoring me bc i refuse to believe that plandemic supreme narc abuse narrative. 🧐🤔😔 Oh well, good riddence to bad rubbish. 🙏👍
Dense and insightful, Thank you for putting all the different combinations of couples and their characteristics together.
Is this how resentment grow between two narcissists? I can see my neighbours life exposed in front of my eyes, as I’m watching this video.
4:41 Sure they change. If the other person figures them out. They will learn by the criticism how to hide it more In the next relationship. No doubt. Repeat. Eventually they will be quite skilled with all the feedback
My dad suffers from narcissistic tendencies. He was the youngest child and spoiled. His father never taught him to be a "man" and babied his actions into adulthood. He treats his kids as if they're a competition/sibling. He's attracted to empathetic women but they usually leave him. Now he committed to a woman with a borderline disorder and is even more narcisstic than he is. My siblings and i no longer speak to him to much because she gets jealous of any affection he gives to his family even though he rarely shows it to his kids anyways....
Similar situation to me, people are weirdos haha
This is a question that comes to mind and today I found his answer. Thank you Dr.Todd 🌷🌷
Both of my parents are narcissists and my dad has a psychopathic personality. I’ve been in therapy for about 10 years now and go weekly. My dad wreaked havoc on our family and my mom let it happen.
It's like two wizards fighting all day and then having some love time at the end of the day. It is a weird life.
My parents are narcs. My mom being the grandiose and my dad being the vulnerable narc. Definitely lots of arguments. My dad being emotional unstable and alot of anger issues. ☹️
Was just in/still in one. I’m grandiose, she’s vulnerable. Absolute chaos.
This has to be like, lifetime movie at its best!
When to get together it has be very superficial and illusions of perfect from looking from the outside. I seen this before. Very dramatic
Very informative!!!! We’re divorcing...,
Not sure I’m narcissistic but he absolutely is.... very abusive.....
Arrgh.. Good talks on Narcissism, but describing my ex and his family to a T, with good insights into how and why we failed to stay together. The only facet I would disagree with would be that the partner who is the narcissist will say a lot, but at the same be unable to be articulate about their hopes and feelings - while my experience was and has been, when as a logical and agreeable person I was gaslighted by the narcisissist ex and his family, I was left speechless and unable to comprehend the "alternate parallel reality" that they seemed to live in. In the end, I was "too boring" to the narcissist who felt that world was how the world functioned.
Thank you. This has helped me a lot. From Nairobi Kenya.
Hey bro, how's Kenya doing currently?
Thank you, as always I have learned a lot. Explains my ex husband and myself.
Thanks! I love the last line...
Not really a couple.
Thank you, Doc for explaining all of this so well👍. Doesn't make the past go away, tho enlightenment helps with future progress...I HOPE🙏.
This is such an interesting subject. Thank you for making these videos.
This makes sense. I know a couple that has a vulnerable handicap spouse that is arrogant and pessimistic as well as insecure.the other is optimistic only regardless of reality, controls other , bold ,knows everything in their opinion. Wow !
Please do a video on relationship dynamics between an NPD covert and someone high on Mach level. Thank you.
Maybe Part 2 could be coping strategies for people who identify with this but desire a positive outcome?
Thank you for one more great analysis, Dr Grande.
Boy oh boy. I am a covert narcissist and starting dating an overt one. That's when I learned.. I am a narcissist and I'm getting karma. Boy did that end badly, I was emotionally abused, it was like being abused by myself. Controlling, insults, yelling, using vulnerable things I've told him in each argument..
If two creatures devour eachother simultaneously, does it result in a puff of smoke and then a void?
Hi Doc. Could you do a show on “normal” couples. What are some good characteristics of a healthy relationship? That sort of thing. I hope it wouldn’t be too boring but maybe compare and contrast with unhealthy actions and give a little general advice. Also maybe compare what the relationship should start to look like as it progresses thru the ages. Such as a honeymoon period , 10 yr mark, 20 yr mark and so on. Thanks in advance. Love your channel.
Thank you Dr Grande, for your dedication & extremely well thought out educational vlogs.. that make it possible for us layman to follow!!
This is another, I shall watch more than once... as it's sometimes difficult to quiet the mind from joining 'the' dots!
I am quite interested in the accumulative factors of exposure to various toxic personality traits within romantic or close relationships. The breeding or resurrection of toxicity, born from accumulative exposure to dark triad type traits or other cluster B personality traits...
I shall have to dig through your library.. again! 😊
The more I learn, the more questions I develop. Thanks again Doc! 🐛 📚 🦋
My friend, who is a covert narc, dated a guy who an overt one. They had so many arguments and fight all the time they were together. But they really matched each other. Eventually my cov friend left him but for 13 years!!!!! he's been trying to get her back. Even though he married during that period and moved to another country. He was ready to leave everything for her. If she hadn't left him, they could be one of those couples who'd have a lot of passion (in a good and bad meaning) and who might probably die the same day (because of constant fights). Do I sound passive-aggressive by thinking like that? P.S. Thanks, JP Sears, for making me more conscious about my flaws:)))
I don't believe in psychology as real science as physics or math, but this research is admirable.
A topic made unexpectedly informative.
Thank you. This was excellent. It’s as hopeless as I thought.
Thank you dr. Grande for all your videos, I learned so much from you.
My husband and best girlfriends were grandiose narcissists and they laughed right at each other and ridiculed behind each others back.
I was just asking myself this question and was hoping someone would do a video about this topic.