I worked at a Royal Mail sorting office for one Christmas period, and I have to tell you they don’t look at a Fragile sticker and treat the parcel any differently to any other parcel. They are all thrown in to a “York” trolley for each destination. So if the parcel arrives with you with no damage it will be because it was packed safely before it was posted!
Well I was a ParcelPost deliverer for Australia Post for five years and you give the impression that all the parcels are just dumped into those cages. Well they are not. If it’s a heavy item it is placed and not just dumped. Hand parcels are lobbed not thrown, there is a difference. The only parcels, I used to do average of 300 a day, that were damaged were because of bad packaging and sometimes having been opened by customs. Only a handful were caused at the parcel centre and those were left there where they were repackaged and a note stuck on them with contact information. I have had dozens of parcels via Post Office and not one has ever been damaged. Even though It’s Australia Post there is no reason why British Post would be that much different in operation. Plus you stated you were only a Christmas worker so I doubt if you cared how you treated the items as you weren’t likely to ever work there again.
I can agree with you Jim ,I worked three Christmas at royal mail and fragile sticker don't mean a thing it will still be thrown in the York without a second thought.
Diesels and electric locomotives look the same weather moving or standing still. It's the linkage, puffs of steam and smoke that's brings a steam locomotives to life.
I think a detail that's kinda nice about this 9F is that the cranks on the Walschaerts valve gear are correctly positioned. A lot of models often have one side in the proper position, the other in the opposite direction. Heck, even the Gordon and Henry models in the Thomas the Tank Engine series had that little flub. Minor nitpick and all, because it only takes a slight adjustment, but it's nice to see it proper straight outta the box.
Totally agree. Looking at it pulling the coaches and as I USE my locos as opposed to just looking at them..... would never spend £150 on this, never mind £250.
As a US-based modeler, I can only dream our manufacturers would release accurate steam locos with diecast boilers, abundant separate details, modern standard DCC plugs, AND speaker enclosure for sub-$300 prices. Over here, this is a $400-500 loco, probably with some unwanted proprietary decoder.
Same as you, our first reaction was: “Wow, have they finally cracked it...”, since she looks absolutely stunning and (finally) well assembled. And then a basal simple thing again made us chuckle... Again.., the motor. We had high hopes, but this would be a direct candidate for a return. It could very well be that she runs fine on DCC, but come on now... Fair review Sam, fair review, but we would have returned it tbh.
Thanks Linda - yes motor not quite right unfortunately.. drawing almost 3x the current of the Railroad version, yet still running much more sluggishly! I'd always recommend returning models like this, but I may keep it to replace the motor with a coreless one and my 3D printed bracket! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains In that case, it would certainly be very interesting to see the difference with 1 flywheel or even none for that matter. That would be an intriguing experiment to see if it actually makes a significant difference, or that the motor itself simply is at fault.
No doubt one of the finest models in recent memory. Much like I've said about the Dapol 52 Class that paint finish would make you think the body was made of metal. That firebox glow is just beautiful. Really gives off a feeling of authenticity. As for that motor they really need something that would do an Express Loco/Freight Loco justice. 9F's do both so well and deserve a motor to match.
Oh definitely - the quality is outstanding! Hopefully Hornby will change to better motors soon - coreless is definitely the way to go these days I think! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Looks stunning but the performance leaves a lot to be desired. Turned bearings or not the Bachmann 9f is now looking like the better deal. Great content as always Sam.
Yeah, kind of agreeing with you. Plus, this loco I would be scared of doing some kit-bashing as it is so expensive whereas the Bachman I would be happy going to town and removing seem lines, replacing pipes with metal etc.
Sad that Hornby can build a loco that can justify their "Trix" pricing yet still fall on something as simple as not fitting a premium motor, what were they thinking.
Man, the people from Hornby were not thinking at all. They are still not doing proper testing on the motors. Plus, they still do not want to reduce their jacked up prices because they think in their tiny minds that jacking up the prices on their models is going to save their reputation. In reality, it is ruining their reputation in the process and it will make them go bankrupt at any day and time.
The same with many Dapol locos, really nice other than the crappy motors.. As you say skimping on such a crucial part of the model which really doesn't cost much is really dumb.
I agree completely, and I do have a couple of Trix models and they are a work of art, surely a decent motor can’t be that expensive, especially with the price tag attached
Hi @Graham!, Not that I disagree at all, but, I would like to make a small comparison between both brands. If it were Trix, at least the locomotive shell would be metal, and the axles would never be plastic, you would have a better motor and you would have lights in front, back, cab and maybe even a metal tender.... I am not saying by any means that Hornby is bad, but, if you aim to a higher price range, shouldn't you aim for a better standard? I would like to clarify that I am just a Trix collector and club member, and with all the love to the hobby, this locomotive cannot be compared. Best regards, D.
Glad I watched your review Sam,saw one of these at my local shop,and thought how amazing it looked,but then remembered previously underpowered hornby locos,and thought I'll wait until your running test Glad I did
I was so hoping that Hornby had got it right this time! Close but no cigar. I think Hornby need to invest in a decent test-track with a gradient and various radii of curves so they can spot issues like this with the pre-production samples. Hopefully they will use another motor on future batches, not that will be much comfort to the people who have forked out for this run. I am so pleased the Railroad range is still around. Thanks for all your great reviews.
I've been impressed by my 9F, pre ordered 92194 and running DCC. I've found no lack of power with mine, and is hauling 8-9 bachmann mk1s with no problems. Maybe just a bad motor, though have read some have struggled running DC.
Yes the controller/power does seem to make a difference - I've since tried this on a feedback controller and the torque was much better... but I don't want to use feedback for my main controller, as many manufacturers now use coreless motors which don't agree with them. The new 9F draws 270mA with no load... old Railroad one draws 100mA under the same conditions... something not quite right! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains If the motor is skew wound, I think it is working against itself. Hence the big current draw and weak power output, i.e. poor efficiency. Perhaps a regular 5 pole motor would be better. Heck, why not a 6 pole? There are some suitable ones available and they run very smoothly. I have retrofit almost all my Hornby 0-4-0 former "pocket rockets" with 6 pole motors. Now they are able to crawl unbelievably slowly and the top speed is more realistic. Would you like me to send you an example?
Thanks for the review, Sam, and for saving me some money. My Railroad and Bachmann 9Fs are plenty good enough for me, all run very well and are reliable. It's weird about that motor assembly; I have 2 B12s and an S15 and all run superbly well, each can lift 8 coach trains happily and no problems with R2/R3 curves.
Thanks David - yes if you're happy with the Bachmann one in particular, the differences here don't really justify the extra price in my opinion. Yes I have a B12 with the original motor that runs great... just the other one that was seriously bad! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Wow the paint work and detailing looks great as though your viewing the actual locomotive in the NRM, but oh no it is let down by the motor. If I could find a spare Hornby 9F Railroad motor from an accessory shop, I would be sending it and the new 9F locomotive back to Hornby and 'a note saying, "here's' a proper motor, fix it!" 10/10 for still reviewing Hornby locos, I would have lost patience by now!
It's not faulty sam I've watched other reviews on it, same slow down issues, beautiful display model unless the motor is swapped out for a good quality one, great review sam I've been looking forward to this loco there is a couple in my local model model shop, over 300 euros would never part with that sort of money for any loco especially a hornby 👍
Hi Sam. Just got an email from Hornby offering the 9F for under £130. I was about to buy it, but I recalled your review, so watched it again. Thanks to you, I've decided to keep my cash in my pocket.
Excellent video, you present your reviews like a professional . Have been watching for a long time ,you have developed your knowledge, now a true expert. A well balanced review.
It looks really nice. I have nearly bought the 9F from the Bachmann Collectors Club a couple of times. I've been on a few 9F trains at the GCR. PS received my Queen Elizabeth II yesterday from the SVR.
Echo all the positivity in your review and other people’s comments. Looks way more impressive than the 1970s version I had as a kid. Has Hornby spent more per item on the much improved packaging than they have on the motor, I wonder?
The last review of Summer 2022. Nice way to bring summer to a close, by reviewing such a massive locomotive - a "decapod", or ten-driver steam locomotive - which happened to be the last ever built by BR. Going out with a bang.
A great review Sam, a lot of money for a Pensioner, it looks like a fantastic model. To be honest I am a bit disappointed, I wanted one just for old time sake. As Evening Star was my regular engine, when she was at my shed 81F Oxford. I really wanted one, but now having second thoughts. Your review was very comprehensive and fair. It is a lot of money, but more worrying is the motor.
Superb review, I was waiting for your review before purchasing... good decision, I have two Bachmann 9F's that are excellent apart from being quite hard running on ballasted track - they need metal bearings on the wheels. I have a Hornby railroad 9F that lacks power compared to the Bachmann ones, the wheels slip with 20 or more loaded trucks and the lack of tender pickups means it is prone to stopping on curves. So I was eagerly waiting for the top one, being di-cast etc but I think now I am waiting for Hornby to change the motor, or Bachmann to add some bearings... in the mean time I will add pickups to the Railroad tender.
For someone who's trying to get into the hobby why are these trains so expensive? Is there an introduction set available if you're on the fence with this hobby?
I have a plain black 9f which did come in the same packaging,the model I purchased is DCC fitted and with sound, my track is flat but I can’t fault it, runs great.
It would be interesting to put an Ammeter in series with it. My Hornby B12 drew 400mA just dragging itself around the track at first. It ran in a bit drawing ~350mA. The amount of current tended to create heating. Then my B12 died…. That wretched motor was a terrible choice. As you say, in theory that long armature should mean a lot of torque, so I’m guessing Hornby chose it with good reason. However; the reality is the real world performance isn’t cutting it. Tragic as Hornby could do with a model or two to become best-sellers, especially at this price point. Great review as ever. I’m not buying one with that motor !!
Oh dear Hornby's fallen at the last hurdle again! Was really impressed despite the price until you got to the motor. My previous Evening Star is under mazak rot surgery at the moment and is running beautifully on the test rollers so she's a keeper.
Yeah me too John- overall a really impressive model - going to try and find a better motor and do a retro-fit and see what the difference is! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I wonder if a replacement motor from the Railroad version could fit. It seems much too nice and expensive of a model to just do the typical cheap motor swap. Keeping the dual flywheels would be great too, if possible.
Back in the day Hornby ruled the model railway world in the Uk, they still churn out sub standard models to unsuspecting modellers for large quantities of hard earned money, I’m glad we have honest reviewers like Sam’s Trains who holds no punches with his expertise, I really wanted one of these to go with my 1990’s Evening Star which runs very well to this day, Hornby don’t give a flying fig about customers they just want their money! Believe Hornby are not the company of old they are a money making machine if you choose to by their products, I have a 21pin hst set with noisy motorised roof fans, long story short I will never buy another one again, Sam calls out Hornby’s failings and I’m happy with that.
Just received mine today: on my DCC layout the Black 9F runs like a dream at low and fast speeds. Haulage for me is fine pulling 12 coaches on the level with ease. Expensive, I know, but to me it is worth it. Thank you for your review.
I have the R3987 92194 and it did indeed come wrapped identical to yours Sam. It came in a cardboard box with a fragile sticker, then it was double bubble wrapped inside, and indeed had the foam ends and the loco box itself was well wrapped. I recently got the Queen Jubilee and it was also wrapped in this way. Seems that Hornby have actually learned a lesson.
Update from Steve at the Neville Grove channel. His new 9F runs fine. It slowed a little bit around 2nd radius curves, but it was pulling 59 mixed wagons! So looks as though you got another duff motor Sam.
The model looks absolutely beautiful, definitely one of the best 9F models I've ever seen. But man, the performance really dissapointed me; I was hoping that finally we could get a 9F that runs well but sadly that wasn't the case.
Maybe time to invest in some DCC gear to test these engines on DCC. I think some of these mechanisms are designed primarily for DCC now and run only just about ok on DC. Because of the way DCC works pulsing the motor with essentially full power there is often a night and day difference with performance.
Nearly there!. Hornby also need to get rid of those hanging wires between the loco and tender. We had a Britannia class catch these wires on a tack that had raised due to the heat and it wiped the loco out. It had to go back to Hornby. As for the price. Look at it like a custom kit model which it is like with its lovely detail.
Another cracking review Sam: well done. Managed to get mine for £230 from Amazon in the end (hopefully it will arrive in one piece and will pull a train!) although they've just put their price up to £253 as we speak! Everybody else sold out or want full retail price!
The model, the packaging and the fact it has incredible quality crew is just outstanding. It’s ironic the price and the motor lets it down. The motor I think being the most ironic let down as these things are meant to be some of the most powerful freight locomotives ever. Would I coincided getting this though... absolutly! Beats the hell out of my old Hornby tender driven evening star. (Which was sold in a Marks and Spencer’s set... whoops! Well I was about 15 when I bought it and my dad was non the wiser 😂 Have a nice day and keep up the good work. Dan
Yes overall it's a massive improvement isn't it? Yes on a non-feedback controller like mine it's struggling hugely... great pity! :( Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, as requested I have a model of Churchward Star Class 'Lode Star' in a NRM branded box similar to the one you have from a couple of years back and I can confirm this had the same type of packaging as the standard one as with my Castle Class 'Drysllwyn Castle', excuse spelling, from about the same time. About ten years ago Hornby also released 'Lode Star' in STEAM Museum, purposely in capitals, packaging and I assume this was in a standard style of packaging as well. The real locomotive was exhibited at Swindon at the time, hence the different museum branding.
Shame on the motor, long live the railroad version. I got a new letter Oxford models now on Hornbys site..lets see how long before oxford branding is binned and Hornby start cutting corners on future batches
Great review thanks. Also received my new Evening Star, really impressed with the fine and detailing and it arrived in that new packaging so it wasnt broken like my W1 Hush Hush
It always makes me happy when a manufacturer manages to turn out a good model. Even though it's interesting when Sam excoriates a bad model, especially when a good manufacturer decides to "phone it in" and tries to sneak a stinker past the punters, I always feel better when Sam genuinely enjoys a model. Must be a weird sense of empathy on my part.
I haven't read all of the comments so you might already be aware that Hornby Lode Star, also a Railway Museum Model, has packaging in the same logo as Evening Star
Wow shes a stunner, im from the US and see a lot of top tier detail and this is a beauty. Im sad to see they havent fit a respectable motor to it as a ten wheeler should be more than enough to pull say eight coaches maybe more based on what im used to in the US Athearn and other models namely Stewart Hobbies who have some beautiful performance characteristics, torque is (much better) with Stewarts and even on most of my old Athearn blue box stuff.
hi sam..could this be the first of a hornby comeback?.a beautiful model well detailed and finish...price wise still a bit over the top but i would buy it. (written before motor review). saw a review earlier today of a br black model and boxing was the same as yours.i do not think it is a suitable model if you have helixes or uphill tracks...just saw another review and the model does slow down on curves even on a flat layout..hornby shot themselves in the foot by using an under powered motor
Great video Sam! It's nice to see the Evening Star version and having just done a review of the BR Black ones I can confirm they come in exactly the same packaging. I'm surprised your one struggled so much with haulage though! Mine has been pulling the same amount up the slight inclines my layout has without any problems so that's worrying if these motors can vary so much!
Thanks a lot for confirming - hopefully all Hornby locos come with this packaging as standard! Glad yours was better... but yes had several issues with these motors, but luckily I've developed 3D printed motor mounts to replace them with stronger coreless ones, so will give that a go soon! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
"Black Prince" was used in the opening scenes of The Centerville Ghost, a movie I've loved since I was a kid. So, the 9F is essentially responsible for my love of British steam! ❤️🇬🇧🇺🇲❤️
I watched the Neville Grove channel running a black version yesterday. He doesn't review, just runs with real recorded sound of the prototype. I didn't see any running issues on his quite complex layout. I'll ask him
evening star has to be my favourite british railways standard. that bit in the into where it cuts out on gordons hill and the clip cuts off made me chuckle a bit XD
you need to review doing a dcc conversion on it i just bought another hornby steam loco with the 21 pin socket and you cant even install a decoder in it without modifying the locomotive, could you maybe show us that on this loco and see if its the same issue?
I think these motors have a fundamental design problem. Hornby knows these are dodgy from the past but maybe they thought that a particular batch had an issue and not a design issue. I still think all locos should be like the Hornby Merchant Navy Class's mechanism and performance. Still love the Merchant Navy but the new 9F is pretty good still but no loco can steal the place that the Hornby Merchant Navy holds in my heart !
I think so too... I've seen this time and time again... though they can run well.. my LNER green B12 is a superb runner. Not sure what causes this problem... but this 9F is drawing almost 3x the current that my Railroad one does, and yet its so much more sluggish... not right! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam. If you look at the review of the 9F on the ‘That Model Railway Guy’ channel, you’ll see that he received, from Hornby, his Hornby box bubble-wrapped, by Hornby, inside the outer posting box. Paul.
Hi Paul, I'm just going on what Derails told me - they advised that only the foam was provided by Hornby, and that they added the extra bubble wrap inside the Hornby box Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam. Thanks for the response. I wasn't doubting your word, just pointing out that Hornby cannot be relied upon to treat everyone equally. But of course, we already know that, don't we. 😀 Cheers Sam. 👍 Paul.
Fantastic review Sam! Hornby were so close..it's like watching your favourite sports team in a tough season when they finally show some promise, only to fall agonisingly short. I got the centenary edition of the railroad 9F in 2020 and I think I'll take that for the moment given its reliability! I have seen other reviews in which the loco seemed to perform fine but I think it's fair to say the dodgy motor will provide mixed opportunities. I've got a pre-order on the new P2 and fingers are crossed they use a different motor for it but keep up the high standard!!
well the lamp ireons on the 9f is good so everyone could put on fox transfers headboards like the red dragon, Pines Express etc but the pity thing is the preserved 9fs cannot run on the Main Line today because of the Middle Flangeless wheel
You say that it's relatively expensive, but then you look at the locomotives you can get in America and they're all $400 plus. I think the Pennsylvania Railroad K4 is like $430.
If you think about it. The loco slowing down in the hill at the same amount of power adds realism and makes you drive the loco by having to put more power in 😂
I worked at a Royal Mail sorting office for one Christmas period, and I have to tell you they don’t look at a Fragile sticker and treat the parcel any differently to any other parcel. They are all thrown in to a “York” trolley for each destination. So if the parcel arrives with you with no damage it will be because it was packed safely before it was posted!
You can see why people choose other providers with that attitude.
£250 I'd want the plates fitted!
Well I was a ParcelPost deliverer for Australia Post for five years and you give the impression that all the parcels are just dumped into those cages.
Well they are not. If it’s a heavy item it is placed and not just dumped. Hand parcels are lobbed not thrown, there is a difference.
The only parcels, I used to do average of 300 a day, that were damaged were because of bad packaging and sometimes having been opened by customs. Only a handful were caused at the parcel centre and those were left there where they were repackaged and a note stuck on them with contact information.
I have had dozens of parcels via Post Office and not one has ever been damaged.
Even though It’s Australia Post there is no reason why British Post would be that much different in operation.
Plus you stated you were only a Christmas worker so I doubt if you cared how you treated the items as you weren’t likely to ever work there again.
I can agree with you Jim ,I worked three Christmas at royal mail and fragile sticker don't mean a thing it will still be thrown in the York without a second thought.
11
What I like about steam locos are all the little linkages. It's so soothing to watch them go back and forth.
Diesels and electric locomotives look the same weather moving or standing still. It's the linkage, puffs of steam and smoke that's brings a steam locomotives to life.
I think a detail that's kinda nice about this 9F is that the cranks on the Walschaerts valve gear are correctly positioned. A lot of models often have one side in the proper position, the other in the opposite direction. Heck, even the Gordon and Henry models in the Thomas the Tank Engine series had that little flub.
Minor nitpick and all, because it only takes a slight adjustment, but it's nice to see it proper straight outta the box.
In my opinion, for that price it shouldn’t just be DCC ready, it should be DCC and sound equipped.
Yeah I agree, it really should have had some sort of DCC!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
To me in my views, for that price; it should have DCC sound and synchronised puffing smoke
have you seen Hornbys price for the forthcoming Black 5 with smoke generator???...
Totally agree. Looking at it pulling the coaches and as I USE my locos as opposed to just looking at them..... would never spend £150 on this, never mind £250.
As a US-based modeler, I can only dream our manufacturers would release accurate steam locos with diecast boilers, abundant separate details, modern standard DCC plugs, AND speaker enclosure for sub-$300 prices. Over here, this is a $400-500 loco, probably with some unwanted proprietary decoder.
Same as you, our first reaction was: “Wow, have they finally cracked it...”, since she looks absolutely stunning and (finally) well assembled. And then a basal simple thing again made us chuckle... Again.., the motor. We had high hopes, but this would be a direct candidate for a return. It could very well be that she runs fine on DCC, but come on now... Fair review Sam, fair review, but we would have returned it tbh.
Thanks Linda - yes motor not quite right unfortunately.. drawing almost 3x the current of the Railroad version, yet still running much more sluggishly! I'd always recommend returning models like this, but I may keep it to replace the motor with a coreless one and my 3D printed bracket!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains In that case, it would certainly be very interesting to see the difference with 1 flywheel or even none for that matter. That would be an intriguing experiment to see if it actually makes a significant difference, or that the motor itself simply is at fault.
Hi Sam, Just got my 9F on Friday. Works absolutely fine on my double deck DCC layout with 3% gradients.
Thanks for sharing this Mike, this is the kind of feedback I needed! 😁
No doubt one of the finest models in recent memory. Much like I've said about the Dapol 52 Class that paint finish would make you think the body was made of metal. That firebox glow is just beautiful. Really gives off a feeling of authenticity. As for that motor they really need something that would do an Express Loco/Freight Loco justice. 9F's do both so well and deserve a motor to match.
Oh definitely - the quality is outstanding! Hopefully Hornby will change to better motors soon - coreless is definitely the way to go these days I think!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrainsHey where’s the other video, Sam!
Looks stunning but the performance leaves a lot to be desired. Turned bearings or not the Bachmann 9f is now looking like the better deal. Great content as always Sam.
Yeah, kind of agreeing with you. Plus, this loco I would be scared of doing some kit-bashing as it is so expensive whereas the Bachman I would be happy going to town and removing seem lines, replacing pipes with metal etc.
Sad that Hornby can build a loco that can justify their "Trix" pricing yet still fall on something as simple as not fitting a premium motor, what were they thinking.
I was thinking exactly the same. I mean motors aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of thingsso why are they skimping this much?
Man, the people from Hornby were not thinking at all. They are still not doing proper testing on the motors. Plus, they still do not want to reduce their jacked up prices because they think in their tiny minds that jacking up the prices on their models is going to save their reputation. In reality, it is ruining their reputation in the process and it will make them go bankrupt at any day and time.
The same with many Dapol locos, really nice other than the crappy motors.. As you say skimping on such a crucial part of the model which really doesn't cost much is really dumb.
I agree completely, and I do have a couple of Trix models and they are a work of art, surely a decent motor can’t be that expensive, especially with the price tag attached
Hi @Graham!, Not that I disagree at all, but, I would like to make a small comparison between both brands. If it were Trix, at least the locomotive shell would be metal, and the axles would never be plastic, you would have a better motor and you would have lights in front, back, cab and maybe even a metal tender....
I am not saying by any means that Hornby is bad, but, if you aim to a higher price range, shouldn't you aim for a better standard?
I would like to clarify that I am just a Trix collector and club member, and with all the love to the hobby, this locomotive cannot be compared.
Best regards,
D.
Glad I watched your review Sam,saw one of these at my local shop,and thought how amazing it looked,but then remembered previously underpowered hornby locos,and thought I'll wait until your running test Glad I did
I was so hoping that Hornby had got it right this time! Close but no cigar. I think Hornby need to invest in a decent test-track with a gradient and various radii of curves so they can spot issues like this with the pre-production samples. Hopefully they will use another motor on future batches, not that will be much comfort to the people who have forked out for this run.
I am so pleased the Railroad range is still around. Thanks for all your great reviews.
I've been impressed by my 9F, pre ordered 92194 and running DCC. I've found no lack of power with mine, and is hauling 8-9 bachmann mk1s with no problems. Maybe just a bad motor, though have read some have struggled running DC.
It would be interesting to know if Sam were to try his model on DCC to see if there is an improvement in performance.
Yes the controller/power does seem to make a difference - I've since tried this on a feedback controller and the torque was much better... but I don't want to use feedback for my main controller, as many manufacturers now use coreless motors which don't agree with them. The new 9F draws 270mA with no load... old Railroad one draws 100mA under the same conditions... something not quite right!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains If the motor is skew wound, I think it is working against itself. Hence the big current draw and weak power output, i.e. poor efficiency. Perhaps a regular 5 pole motor would be better. Heck, why not a 6 pole? There are some suitable ones available and they run very smoothly. I have retrofit almost all my Hornby 0-4-0 former "pocket rockets" with 6 pole motors. Now they are able to crawl unbelievably slowly and the top speed is more realistic. Would you like me to send you an example?
Thanks for the review, Sam, and for saving me some money. My Railroad and Bachmann 9Fs are plenty good enough for me, all run very well and are reliable. It's weird about that motor assembly; I have 2 B12s and an S15 and all run superbly well, each can lift 8 coach trains happily and no problems with R2/R3 curves.
Thanks David - yes if you're happy with the Bachmann one in particular, the differences here don't really justify the extra price in my opinion. Yes I have a B12 with the original motor that runs great... just the other one that was seriously bad!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Wow the paint work and detailing looks great as though your viewing the actual locomotive in the NRM, but oh no it is let down by the motor. If I could find a spare Hornby 9F Railroad motor from an accessory shop, I would be sending it and the new 9F locomotive back to Hornby and 'a note saying, "here's' a proper motor, fix it!" 10/10 for still reviewing Hornby locos, I would have lost patience by now!
It really does - astonishing looking model really! Pity about the motor - very annoying!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
It's not faulty sam I've watched other reviews on it, same slow down issues, beautiful display model unless the motor is swapped out for a good quality one, great review sam I've been looking forward to this loco there is a couple in my local model model shop, over 300 euros would never part with that sort of money for any loco especially a hornby 👍
Hi Sam. Just got an email from Hornby offering the 9F for under £130. I was about to buy it, but I recalled your review, so watched it again. Thanks to you, I've decided to keep my cash in my pocket.
Excellent video, you present your reviews like a professional . Have been watching for a long time ,you have developed your knowledge, now a true expert. A well balanced review.
Thank you so much James, that's very lovely to hear,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam I love your content I can’t what until the lives stream are out again thanks you making my day everyday I hope you never quit TH-cam ❤
Thank you so much - that's so lovely to read! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
It looks really nice. I have nearly bought the 9F from the Bachmann Collectors Club a couple of times. I've been on a few 9F trains at the GCR. PS received my Queen Elizabeth II yesterday from the SVR.
Echo all the positivity in your review and other people’s comments. Looks way more impressive than the 1970s version I had as a kid. Has Hornby spent more per item on the much improved packaging than they have on the motor, I wonder?
It would be great if a company made a metal pipework kit for this locomotive.
The last review of Summer 2022. Nice way to bring summer to a close, by reviewing such a massive locomotive - a "decapod", or ten-driver steam locomotive - which happened to be the last ever built by BR. Going out with a bang.
Thanks very much - yes very much so, quite a fitting last loco of the summer!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A great review Sam, a lot of money for a Pensioner, it looks like a fantastic model.
To be honest I am a bit disappointed, I wanted one just for old time sake.
As Evening Star was my regular engine, when she was at my shed 81F Oxford.
I really wanted one, but now having second thoughts.
Your review was very comprehensive and fair.
It is a lot of money, but more worrying is the motor.
Superb review, I was waiting for your review before purchasing... good decision, I have two Bachmann 9F's that are excellent apart from being quite hard running on ballasted track - they need metal bearings on the wheels. I have a Hornby railroad 9F that lacks power compared to the Bachmann ones, the wheels slip with 20 or more loaded trucks and the lack of tender pickups means it is prone to stopping on curves. So I was eagerly waiting for the top one, being di-cast etc but I think now I am waiting for Hornby to change the motor, or Bachmann to add some bearings... in the mean time I will add pickups to the Railroad tender.
For someone who's trying to get into the hobby why are these trains so expensive? Is there an introduction set available if you're on the fence with this hobby?
Enjoyed your video Sam, I've got a 9F Railroad version and it runs fine, thanks John
I have a plain black 9f which did come in the same packaging,the model I purchased is DCC fitted and with sound, my track is flat but I can’t fault it, runs great.
It would be interesting to put an Ammeter in series with it. My Hornby B12 drew 400mA just dragging itself around the track at first. It ran in a bit drawing ~350mA. The amount of current tended to create heating. Then my B12 died…. That wretched motor was a terrible choice. As you say, in theory that long armature should mean a lot of torque, so I’m guessing Hornby chose it with good reason. However; the reality is the real world performance isn’t cutting it. Tragic as Hornby could do with a model or two to become best-sellers, especially at this price point. Great review as ever. I’m not buying one with that motor !!
Oh dear Hornby's fallen at the last hurdle again! Was really impressed despite the price until you got to the motor. My previous Evening Star is under mazak rot surgery at the moment and is running beautifully on the test rollers so she's a keeper.
Yeah me too John- overall a really impressive model - going to try and find a better motor and do a retro-fit and see what the difference is!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I wonder if a replacement motor from the Railroad version could fit. It seems much too nice and expensive of a model to just do the typical cheap motor swap. Keeping the dual flywheels would be great too, if possible.
Visually excellent, mechanically shoddy. Well done Hornbotch! Another very fair review Sam.
haha thanks Markus - not even mechanically shoddy, I just think it was a poor choice of motor!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Back in the day Hornby ruled the model railway world in the Uk, they still churn out sub standard models to unsuspecting modellers for large quantities of hard earned money, I’m glad we have honest reviewers like Sam’s Trains who holds no punches with his expertise, I really wanted one of these to go with my 1990’s Evening Star which runs very well to this day, Hornby don’t give a flying fig about customers they just want their money! Believe Hornby are not the company of old they are a money making machine if you choose to by their products, I have a 21pin hst set with noisy motorised roof fans, long story short I will never buy another one again, Sam calls out Hornby’s failings and I’m happy with that.
Just received mine today: on my DCC layout the Black 9F runs like a dream at low and fast speeds. Haulage for me is fine pulling 12 coaches on the level with ease. Expensive, I know, but to me it is worth it. Thank you for your review.
Oooooh! I recently got one of these! I love it!
I have the R3987 92194 and it did indeed come wrapped identical to yours Sam. It came in a cardboard box with a fragile sticker, then it was double bubble wrapped inside, and indeed had the foam ends and the loco box itself was well wrapped. I recently got the Queen Jubilee and it was also wrapped in this way. Seems that Hornby have actually learned a lesson.
Thanks very much for sharing - and I didn't know the Jubilee engine had the same packaging... very cool!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam - why don't you test on DCC as well?
Update from Steve at the Neville Grove channel. His new 9F runs fine. It slowed a little bit around 2nd radius curves, but it was pulling 59 mixed wagons!
So looks as though you got another duff motor Sam.
For the 200£+ price range torque issues are unacceptable, hell, any issues are not acceptable, on a damn 9F nonetheless!
Yeah agreed, not quite right is it??
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The model looks absolutely beautiful, definitely one of the best 9F models I've ever seen. But man, the performance really dissapointed me; I was hoping that finally we could get a 9F that runs well but sadly that wasn't the case.
Maybe time to invest in some DCC gear to test these engines on DCC. I think some of these mechanisms are designed primarily for DCC now and run only just about ok on DC. Because of the way DCC works pulsing the motor with essentially full power there is often a night and day difference with performance.
8:30 Wow! That finish!
First time I've said that out loud for a Hornby unboxing! Shame about the motor. But the detail and finish... Amazeballs.
Nearly there!. Hornby also need to get rid of those hanging wires between the loco and tender. We had a Britannia class catch these wires on a tack that had raised due to the heat and it wiped the loco out. It had to go back to Hornby. As for the price. Look at it like a custom kit model which it is like with its lovely detail.
Another cracking review Sam: well done. Managed to get mine for £230 from Amazon in the end (hopefully it will arrive in one piece and will pull a train!) although they've just put their price up to £253 as we speak! Everybody else sold out or want full retail price!
Thank you! Oh that's not too bad then, good old Amazon!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The model, the packaging and the fact it has incredible quality crew is just outstanding. It’s ironic the price and the motor lets it down. The motor I think being the most ironic let down as these things are meant to be some of the most powerful freight locomotives ever. Would I coincided getting this though... absolutly! Beats the hell out of my old Hornby tender driven evening star. (Which was sold in a Marks and Spencer’s set... whoops! Well I was about 15 when I bought it and my dad was non the wiser 😂
Have a nice day and keep up the good work. Dan
Yes overall it's a massive improvement isn't it? Yes on a non-feedback controller like mine it's struggling hugely... great pity! :(
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I have a 2000s tender drive 9f and works like a charm on my standard oval layout with no torque issues
Hi Sam, as requested I have a model of Churchward Star Class 'Lode Star' in a NRM branded box similar to the one you have from a couple of years back and I can confirm this had the same type of packaging as the standard one as with my Castle Class 'Drysllwyn Castle', excuse spelling, from about the same time.
About ten years ago Hornby also released 'Lode Star' in STEAM Museum, purposely in capitals, packaging and I assume this was in a standard style of packaging as well. The real locomotive was exhibited at Swindon at the time, hence the different museum branding.
at 26:36 you can tell that it speeds up then when the little lever on the middle wheel is up in the air it slow down althought that may of been sam
I really do like the brand new 9f. But the motor again!
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Yes that's it unfortunately!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi sam I hope you're ok
Great looking model i love the 9f they are one of my favourite locomotives
Hope you are too Lewis - I can see why this'd be a favourite!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Nearly fell of my chair when you said 'nice work Hornby' 😂
Every product is a compromise of goals.
Picked mine up at weekend. Great model.
Fantastic review Sam - thank god Hornby are finally getting up to 2022 standards. In other news did you see the dubious oxford news :s
Thank you! They sure are! Not seen any Oxford news though, what's this??
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Shame on the motor, long live the railroad version. I got a new letter Oxford models now on Hornbys site..lets see how long before oxford branding is binned and Hornby start cutting corners on future batches
What news is this S G? 🤔
@@SamsTrains Hornby are absorbing Oxford Rail
So the 2022 standard are for models that have bad motors
Great review thanks. Also received my new Evening Star, really impressed with the fine and detailing and it arrived in that new packaging so it wasnt broken like my W1 Hush Hush
Excellent! Yes mine wasn't broken either, which is awesome to see! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I had one of these in 1974. Cousy me nearly a years pocket money and never had a problem with motor
It always makes me happy when a manufacturer manages to turn out a good model. Even though it's interesting when Sam excoriates a bad model, especially when a good manufacturer decides to "phone it in" and tries to sneak a stinker past the punters, I always feel better when Sam genuinely enjoys a model. Must be a weird sense of empathy on my part.
I haven't read all of the comments so you might already be aware that Hornby Lode Star, also a Railway Museum Model, has packaging in the same logo as Evening Star
I like how when I finally get a Hornby railroad 9F (I live in the U.S.) they release a completely new one.
It's an absolutely beautiful locomotive. I am happy to inform that I own one of those Evening Star.. Yes they are costly..
Can you test it on DCC ?? Are the motors designed for newer technologies??
I've seen it up close and personal, it really is amazing in person
I have too actually - it sure is! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I loved watching your videos when I was 10, and I still love watching your videos at the age of 14, keep up the good work Sam =)❤️
Thank you so much - that's lovely to hear! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Wow shes a stunner, im from the US and see a lot of top tier detail and this is a beauty. Im sad to see they havent fit a respectable motor to it as a ten wheeler should be more than enough to pull say eight coaches maybe more based on what im used to in the US Athearn and other models namely Stewart Hobbies who have some beautiful performance characteristics, torque is (much better) with Stewarts and even on most of my old Athearn blue box stuff.
I really hope that they announce that they remaking the Crositi 9F soon.
But they've already done a Crosti 9F.
They have. Back in 2017
@@mitchellhogg4627similar to this model?
Fantastic, now I want one in BR Black... Nice video, pity about the lack of torque in the motor, I'm sure that can be easily changed like the B12s...
hi sam..could this be the first of a hornby comeback?.a beautiful model well detailed and finish...price wise still a bit over the top but i would buy it. (written before motor review). saw a review earlier today of a br black model and boxing was the same as yours.i do not think it is a suitable model if you have helixes or uphill tracks...just saw another review and the model does slow down on curves even on a flat layout..hornby shot themselves in the foot by using an under powered motor
Close coupling option for when you give up trying to run the loco and put it on static display.
Great video Sam! It's nice to see the Evening Star version and having just done a review of the BR Black ones I can confirm they come in exactly the same packaging.
I'm surprised your one struggled so much with haulage though! Mine has been pulling the same amount up the slight inclines my layout has without any problems so that's worrying if these motors can vary so much!
Thanks a lot for confirming - hopefully all Hornby locos come with this packaging as standard! Glad yours was better... but yes had several issues with these motors, but luckily I've developed 3D printed motor mounts to replace them with stronger coreless ones, so will give that a go soon!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
"Black Prince" was used in the opening scenes of The Centerville Ghost, a movie I've loved since I was a kid. So, the 9F is essentially responsible for my love of British steam! ❤️🇬🇧🇺🇲❤️
I really do like the brand new 9f, but the motor!!!
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Yeah I know - disappointing motor!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The Crosti model was a new model, but out into the railroad range. Weird.
Nice video Sam. Very beautiful steamer, with a very bad motor. Repower it!
Thanks a lot Regis, I will be looking to replace the motor!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Just ordered 92220 with DCC/Sound fitted for $295. The diecast boiler will be a godsend for my layout.
With reference to your comment about them, I'd like to think the figures in the detail pack would contribute to the >£250 price tag
Out the Box and dcc fitted zero problems.
There is another 9F preserved and in steam and running on the NYMR, Pickering .
I watched the Neville Grove channel running a black version yesterday. He doesn't review, just runs with real recorded sound of the prototype. I didn't see any running issues on his quite complex layout. I'll ask him
I really do like the brand new 9f. But the motor!
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Me too... I love everything about it except for the motor!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
evening star has to be my favourite british railways standard.
that bit in the into where it cuts out on gordons hill and the clip cuts off made me chuckle a bit XD
Yeah it's a classic isn't it? haha got to laugh I suppose ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Wow enjoyed this video Sam and liked thanks for sharing DD.
This model I bought in "74" had the motor in the tender with rubberized wheels which had no issues with torque.
Think you may have a dodgy one. The Neville Grove one was pulling 57 trucks with ease
you need to review doing a dcc conversion on it i just bought another hornby steam loco with the 21 pin socket and you cant even install a decoder in it without modifying the locomotive, could you maybe show us that on this loco and see if its the same issue?
Nice to see Hornby getting better, might even convince me to buy new
I agree... this is a massive improvement generally!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Amazing model just a let down with the motor, would have been awesome with a smoke gen as well
Suggestion for Sam’sTrains: Review a German HO locomotive by Roco first and then TRIX HO locomotives (TRIX German)
That would be awesome. I live not far from Chemnitz Eisenbahn Museum, and the Steam power they have there is incredible. Awesome machines.
I think these motors have a fundamental design problem. Hornby knows these are dodgy from the past but maybe they thought that a particular batch had an issue and not a design issue. I still think all locos should be like the Hornby Merchant Navy Class's mechanism and performance. Still love the Merchant Navy but the new 9F is pretty good still but no loco can steal the place that the Hornby Merchant Navy holds in my heart !
I think so too... I've seen this time and time again... though they can run well.. my LNER green B12 is a superb runner. Not sure what causes this problem... but this 9F is drawing almost 3x the current that my Railroad one does, and yet its so much more sluggish... not right!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
For the cost of this new 9F you can get three of the Railroad 9F's or two of the superb Crosti 9F's both of which have a superior mechanism.
I’d like one of these to display as an ornament or something for the mantelpiece.
Hi Sam.
If you look at the review of the 9F on the ‘That Model Railway Guy’ channel, you’ll see that he received, from Hornby, his Hornby box bubble-wrapped, by Hornby, inside the outer posting box.
Paul.
Hi Paul, I'm just going on what Derails told me - they advised that only the foam was provided by Hornby, and that they added the extra bubble wrap inside the Hornby box
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam.
Thanks for the response.
I wasn't doubting your word, just pointing out that Hornby cannot be relied upon to treat everyone equally. But of course, we already know that, don't we. 😀
Cheers Sam. 👍
Paul.
if you replace the motor would love to see how it handles
The 9F is one of my favorite BR locomotives, especially with those 10 driving wheels!
Ahh yeah - wonderful isn't it?? :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Fantastic review Sam! Hornby were so close..it's like watching your favourite sports team in a tough season when they finally show some promise, only to fall agonisingly short. I got the centenary edition of the railroad 9F in 2020 and I think I'll take that for the moment given its reliability! I have seen other reviews in which the loco seemed to perform fine but I think it's fair to say the dodgy motor will provide mixed opportunities. I've got a pre-order on the new P2 and fingers are crossed they use a different motor for it but keep up the high standard!!
the design is perfect i really like it nice review
It's a great design for sure!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
well the lamp ireons on the 9f is good so everyone could put on fox transfers headboards like the red dragon, Pines Express etc but the pity thing is the preserved 9fs cannot run on the Main Line today because of the Middle Flangeless wheel
That is a shame
You say that it's relatively expensive, but then you look at the locomotives you can get in America and they're all $400 plus. I think the Pennsylvania Railroad K4 is like $430.
Crazy how that locomotive was being built while Japan was building high-speed rail
british moment
I saw the real 9F Evening Star at the NRM this spring!
On the reveal, my immediate thought: "That's lovely!"
1:55 me: laughs in marklin
Honestly I want to get this 9F and switch it’s chassis motor and all of that with the horn be railroad motor so I can get the best of both worlds
Awesome video today Sam beautiful modle really want one
If you think about it. The loco slowing down in the hill at the same amount of power adds realism and makes you drive the loco by having to put more power in 😂