There is no reason to pay the premium for a production, premium-steel knife if it is not heat-treated to get the performance out of it. One is better to support the custom makers who are willing to do things right (but they too need to be independently-tested and held accountable for their work). Thanks Shayne.
Would never waste hard earned money on a Hinderer. Charging premium money for underwhelming performance is something that no user wants unless it's just a show piece that never gets used. Thanks for the great vid and keep making sharp things fun and enjoyable
I’ll never buy a Hinderer. $500 for bad geometry and a soft heat treat. Nope. Not to mention their piss poor customer service and attitude toward the people who purchase their knives. Dude charges $100 for a single Micarta scale like GTFOH.
I'm with you. If they gonna charge 500, it Better be right . It's like buying a Ferrari with a Volkswagen engine. That's why I go with spyderco 100% of the time because I'm not rich enough to waste my money . Good video, brother 👍
It's much more difficult and more expensive to machine any steel over 61 HRC. That's why most companies top out there, regardless of steel. Any BS about toughness is PR.
This was very passionately done from the heart, and I wish Rick would watch it! I've never been a Hinderer fan, but I know that his fans are loyal. I think more of them should let go of the "status" they think they achieve with owning his knives, take a bite of that humble pie, and hold his ass accountable just like you are!
I'm embarrassed to admit but a small part of my motivation in acquiring this was clout. I do love the design and the feel I just can't understand why he wouldn't make it perfect when it's so close and so easy to achieve
@EDGY AMERICAN nothing wrong with being proud of things like this at all. He just needs to do what's right in keeping it something to be proud of. After all, how can you be proud of a $700 knife that you have to sharpen at the end of every work day? It just doesn't hold up to the price tag, unfortunately.
I've never really liked Hinderers designs. After all the BS with transparent knives will never buy one of his knives. Now he just says f you! People will still buy my soft knives.
Great video Shane, I appreciate your passion. With my “usage” I will probably never know the difference, but I hate being seen and treated as a sucker and the Project X now looks less cool to me.
I’ve got a S45V XM18 and am satisfied with it. It fills my collector brain need to have a Hinderer. I have less than no desire to own another one now. I already own more CRKs than I’ll ever need and they’re all S45V too but I might have to pick up one of the new Sebenzas in Magnacut just because I know they’re doing a proper heat treat. I’m also really looking forward to the ABW model 2 and the Tactile Knives Maverick cause they’re both aiming for the proper heat treat.
Love love you sebenza in magnacut. Really takes it to another level in my opinion. They heat treated it properly. It holds an edge, sharpens up great, and strops back to hair splitting sharp.
"Anywhere between 59 and 64 on the Rockwell hardness scale can work great, and MagnaCut steel can be heat-treated to a range of hardnesses depending on the application. I know some out there give specific hardness targets they think are ideal, or claim a knife is no good below a certain hardness. But I feel that ignores the balance of properties you get at different hardness points." -Larrin Thomas
Finally someone who speaks it like it is. why spent 500 bones on garbage heat treat. The extra money would be miniscule to get the correct hrc. First video of yours I've watched and you've got a new sub! Thank man.
Medford put out Magnacut, had issues, stopped using it until they fixed the hardness issue and made sure it was 100% correct before using it again, same on there new ASK knives. I’ve seen a few Hinderer knives in person and I wasn’t impressed. Unfortunately after seeing this video it furthers my impressions on his work. I’d rather buy a Chris Reeve or Medford.
The hinderer fanboys are more then willing to accept mediocre quality. When it should be those guys that are the ones holding hinderer to higher standards.
The video is a bit strange ("there is zero use for this") 2 weeks research @ magnacut 60-61 -finer edge with more bite -No Diamond stones "required" -less chance of end of with a broken tip when using knife as a "pry bar" because of slightly increased toughness 63-64 hrc -glassier edge with less bite +~15% edge retention I think it comes down to the heat treat for a real quality magnacut blade. I would like to know neeves final conclusion on sharpening and using hinderer heat treat. I hope he is objectiv as he is linking up with TK these days. I know CRK is doing it at 63-64 so I would like to see them in comparison. In my opinion hinderers are very good knifes,but im not a hardcore cutter anyways.
Hinderers are good for one thing. To resale for a profit. They've never held an edge. Never ever. The geometry is crap...all hinderers have ever been to me is an investment. There's no reason to buy a hinderer to be a user. They could say it was magnacut at 63 and I wouldn't be able to tell if they really used s90v. I don't use knives enough to care ...if the edge will last a month at my job I'm good. I've had 14c28n do that, I've had aus-8 do that. I've had aus-8 fail to do that. I've had s90v fail to do that. I don't use a knife all day so personally I don't care...but those are valid points Shayne. What happens when China starts heat treating the way we want it.
Your 100% on this. At 63HRC it would have word of mouthed throughout the community and been sold out as fast as they could churn them. They need up their game on QC and knife community relations. Barking at Transparent left a rotten taste in me mouth. And years ago they blamed me for them grinding their edge too hot. I say its obviously a “Factory” edge….all purple N black….they hung up. J,s knife looked cool though. Great content Edge.
I loved how the knife community rallied behind Transparent Knives while Hinderer had his lawyers send a cease and desist letter. My goodness, what an awful letter that was. He skimps on his legal team like he skimps on his heat-treat, I guess.
Sadly there are only a few that are heat treating it properly. I have a Terra Knives Forester in magnacut 64 hrc. And it has amazingly ridiculous good performance.
@@tacticalcenter8658 Original hogue rsks were in m390, then they changed to 20cv, only the carbon fiber sprints are in magnacut. I think you're thinking of the lightweight Deka?
@@nebulamask81 I mean the first batches of magnacut for any of the knives they did. M390 and 20cv from houge never did well in outpost76 testing. Magnacut at 62 did better slightly iirc. Magnacut at 63-64 did really well.
@@tacticalcenter8658 The RSK sprints in Magnacut were both 63-64, but they did those after the initial Magnacut Deka runs so that may well be why. The m390 on my RSK and the 20cv on my mini are both pretty average to slightly above average. I haven't had any experience with their magnacut in the Deka, but I can understand if the early Dekas were on the softer side since there wasn't as much information about it that early on. They were the first or one of the first to use it in a large production knife and good on them for changing their HT due to feedback. Imo that's quite a bit different situation than with what's going on with Hinderer if he is putting them out at 60 with what we know now.
Michael Martin honestly is a fantastic example of how to do it right. I've had to send my m1v6 in multiple times. Even once because I fucked it up. Never once did he even question it, just "yup send her in I'll check it out" it will come back to me with a new blade or a new lock bar liner in under a week
Even companies doing these steels at 61 with poor microstructure are low performance too. They just need to modify the protocol and they could get 60-61 that performs in the 62-63 range with their current protocol. Its sad they have no knowledge about heat treat and steels.
I also have the same exact knife in your video except mine has a red g10 scale and that factory edge on it was absolutely horrendous, I had to put a new edge on it myself with the new worksharp precision adjust pro, Rick Hinderer is also known for being a jerk, I don't understand why he refuses to fix the heat treat on his knives
@@shaynegablespkr this is how I think of bestech in a way. The knives are over priced to begin with but also poor performance m390 and 20cv is not worth it. So they have knives in the 400 range that should be no more than 200 give or take. It's because no one knows the cost these things really are and they are not calling it out due to ignorance.
This whole situation is dumb af. Optimal blade hardness is a range and what is deemed 'best' is subjective. A harder blade has better edge retention, but is also more brittle and harder to sharpen. A less hard blade will have a higher toughness. Magnacut is the same way. It's not some magical material. This stuff just isn't that complicated. People just love drama.
It actually doesn't. Just as EVERY other steel... as the HRC goes up, toughness goes down. Its peak toughness is at the lowest end of the heat treatment scale. Just because something can reach a higher HRC doesn't mean it needs to. There are trade offs that the makes has to take into account. A lower hardness doesn't mean the maker doesn't know what he's doing. You may not like that RH is heat treating his knives a certain way... but that's entirely on you. You have a certain set of subjective criteria that you have determined all knife makers should adhere to and that's an unreasonable expectation. They have an idea of what they want from their knives and if it meats THEIR expectations, then it was done correctly. How utterly ridiculous that you would crap on a knife maker for not hardening their blades to the HRC you want... Do you do this for every steel, or is it just in this one particular instance? I hate to be the bearer of bad news... but every maker hardens steels of all kinds a little bit differently than everyone else. Some are harder than others. It's not a reason to freak out.@@shaynegablespkr
It actually does. As with any steel at a certain point the steel will become brittle but magnacut is tougher at 63 than 61, it's not the only steel that reacts this way. The "old" statement that lower hrc is tougher is broadly correct but not in every steel. There's nothing wrong with the HRC range Rick used....it's the same range Case used and many others but the XM18 is an otherwise perfect performance cutting tool. Why not make every aspect perfect. There lies the disappointment.
i cant believe he let everyone down especially after that long dragged out transparent confrontation after that i just knew he was gonna make one that would make me wanna spend that kinda money an low an behold what a let down
Thanks for making this known to the knife world. You just saved me thousands of $$$$. I'll stick with tried and true CRK which does things right. No Hinderer's in my future now.
Even if it would've cost more money, he would've quadrupled that amount and added it to the customer, probably another 50. I wanted a hinderer this year too, fuck that & him
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but it seems like you’ve based your entire video on what some person behind a counter (at Blade Show) told somebody else that the HRC is 60 to 61. If that’s actually fact, then so be it. Have you, or anyone else unbiased, actually had the steel tested?? If not, that would be my FIRST priority… especially before cursing and bashing someone off of hearsay! Just my thinkin’! ;-}. MM
Completely understandable thinking. I got the HRC from Rick Hinderer himself so I wouldn't think testing it would be necessary unless his honesty was in question. I haven't had reason to question his honesty as of yet.
First off hinderer is a dumbest saying that they run m390/ 20cv soft for toughness because they aren't tough steels. And if they wanted tough blades then 3v, 4v, cruwear would be way better choices, but he'd run that soft too. The one and only reason they run there steels at 61rc or under is the company's that do the bevel grinding won't grind steel over 62rc without changing out the abrasives they use and charging more. Hinderer makes knives for collectors and fan boys, not as a performance cutting tool.
As someone who only owns one knife for Hindere I'm neither a fan boy or a collector. I bought an XM18 3 years and have absolutely put it through the ringer and it absolutely has held up. To say it's not a performance steel Is just silly . It's not the greatest knife of all time like some swear, but it absolutely takes a beating
I really want to get my hands on some Magnacut some time, but all the drama about heat treatment, plus the fact that half the major brands never even say what their target is makes it difficult. Are there any production brands that do Magnacut consistently well?
wanted one long while now an thats exactly why i aint pulled the trigger cause of that bullpuckey right there ur pointing out, would much rather spend half the money for greater performance no doubt
A lot of crying about performance on here from dudes who never actually use their knife for anything actually deemed hard use lol. You guys buy 500 dollar knives for Amazon boxes.
I agree with your point but damn. Take a chill pill! Just don’t buy his knives! First time to watch… and last time to watch. You turned a 2 statements of advice to your audience to not buy Hinderer into to a 16 min repetitive curse filled rant.
99% of the people who buy Hinderer blades (they sell out everywhere) don't give a rats ass about 60 hrc or 63 HRC Magnacut. Rick will keep selling as long as his knives literally fly off the shelves. Love your passion...but your opinion is just that. Won't change his astronomical sales sadly. Thanks for video
When I got into knives people couldn’t spell hrc. Now it’s just another thing for steel snobs to sneer at 90 percent of people barely use them and couldn’t sharpen it anyways it behooves me people get emotional over numbers on knives tbh no matter what anybody says his knives will sell out in seconds and nothing will change that
Unfortunately, your entire premise that Magnacut is tougher at higher rockwell is flat wrong. Larrin has never said this. In fact, I'll quote him on it and provide a link to where he said the quote so you can hear the words from his own mouth. Suffice it to say, though, that there is NO steel that that gets tougher at it's maximum recommended hardness. There is no "something for nothing" steel. "The benefit to magnacut is that it matches the toughness and wear-resistance of non-stainless steels like 4V and therefore puts us in a new category for stainless steels. It can be heat treated to higher hardness for enhanced edge stability for more acute edges, better cutting ability, and better edge retention without sacrificing toughness when compared with previous stainless steels, or kept at a more conservative hardness when raw toughness is desired." - Larrin Thomas, th-cam.com/video/a5lzf8LA03o/w-d-xo.html at 11:33
I don’t know spit about knives but I will say I bought my XM-18 simply because I really liked the design, the shape, the fit in my hand and the feel of the presentation. What’s a better knife that’s American made, that shares the liner lock and overall quality? I’ll buy it. But the knives you mentioned and show here don’t really spark any interest to me personally. I don’t have a dog in this fight really other than the fact I bought a way too expensive knife that’s got his name on it. But I also have a ZT that’s similar that’s NOT American made. ? I’m not trying to be a smart ass or rude, I’m genuinely asking.
Check out the Spartan Harsey Folder. Similar look to the Hinderer, American made, full titanium, available in a large or small size, and very solid build quality.
I own the best Hinderer imo and it’s made by ZT. Spent a whole $8 on it. Got to love wraffles. At this point I’m don’t think I’m going to buy another knife for the rest of my life. I’ve really lost the love for them and don’t need or want anymore. Would rather buy ammo with my money. There’s about to be a new TH-cam and instagram name. Coming soon…
Zt have poor microstructure, bad lock geometry and worse social media people in the world. They are also stick in their ways and make cringe designs. I have more zt's than any company probably. I do like the 0560cf despite its Con's. But knowing what I know now, I would have avoided them long ago. Zt magnacut will 60-62 iirc. And thats if your lucky they dont burn the edges. Waffles sure are nice when you win. But if you dont win you end up paying a lot for nothing.
@@tacticalcenter8658my lock is perfectly fine on my 0562cf. I’ve wacked the crap out of it. Plus on a frame lock you hand squeezing most likely won’t have any issues. Im a very lucky person when it comes to wraffles and giveaways. I have a $10 Inkosi 🤷🏻 I really don’t play in many wraffles probably only played in 10 and have won 5 times. Never spent more than $10 to enter so I think I’m doing pretty good.
"little rick" that cracked me up!😂 hinderer knives is a p* of sh* company in my opinion, i bought a xm-18 a few years back and the knife was in a really bad state; blade was so off that it almost hit the liner when i closed it, also the detent was just a mess. tried to contact his company 5 times in the following 3 months via email, never got a response.
this sounds like my old plastic company .. heat treat was lowered with misuse of cryo by head office and guess what crappy plastic.. over 10 years of international experience... warranties and all .. I am shocked they changed for a quick buck.. they are closed now.. Karma
So I'm guessing Charlie Sheen would buy a handful of these knives,, pays 1000 to 5000 a piece for 20 knifes..put them in a display case and think he has something. When the landscaper in his yard, has a sharper blade that retains its edge and generally does any task better for 170 bucks.. just saying.
I got the fish-eye on Benchmade because I heard they'll make a model out of S90V and deliver it soft. I won't, if I can help it, buy a knife charging for a ally then not pushing it! So why use it? For marketing and moving numbers. That's no reason for me to want to be overcharged! The knives that are a business success suck more than less star quality knife enthusiasts darlings!
Hate to say it your all wrong.. Not about the blade steel of course about the knife itself.. Hinderers are fucking fantastic knives.. Get them in S45VN dummies.. There great.. Shayne your the man but i hate to say it #rickhindererrules.. Btw i would never use my hinderer enough to scratch.. Its too pretty 🤣🤣🤣.. plus has anyone actually tested the magnacut or is this just here say? Seriously tho from my experience hinderers is one of the only knives that are actually worth the price.. that is real talk from someone whos had alot of other bullshit American knives.. Hinderers quality is is on point.. idgaf about the heat treat. I wanna nice knife at that price point.. Also you are right though 😂🤣🤣.
Chaz I love my XM18 I'm not mad because it's bad. I'm mad because it would have been so easy to make it the best.....across the board the best design out there
@@shaynegablespkr i know.. i started off trolling and the started rambling and wrote a book.. I actually think your right.. Its irritating that they put out a good cake but dont put icing on it
So..I realize that guy had said that...... but has anyone taken one and actually tested it!!???maybe it's higher!!!!!maybe that guy doesn't actually know like for 100%sure and is saying that to be safe!!!....or maybe there starting out lower... but then hopefully they'll get it up where it should be if it isn't already!!!?? Idk I'm just wondering...
Someone did test one already and from what is understood RH formally threatened to sue him for talking about it. It was mentioned in the video you’re watching.
@@wesb123 Jesus....seriously???? My God..... he must have something to hide then.... lol cuz high hrc numbers is what will most certainly sell large numbers of knives...
@@nickmartino2839 the argument from most of his bois is that HRC doesn’t matter because the knife will still do what it’s supposed to. It’s like they are completely blind to the fact that a $400 legacy brand shouldn’t get it’s butt kicked by a $50 Civivi.
@@nickmartino2839 The one that Transparent knives tested is an older model in 20CV I think. Idk if these new Magnacut ones have been tested yet. There's a lot of videos about it just look up "Rick Hinderer Transparent Knives" or "Rick Hinderer is twat" 😂
I used to want the project x but I lost interest. Some companies are stuck in their ways & pump out blades in the easiest way possible rather than “the best way” possible. To me, that shows greed & malicious intent so I won’t support it.
All this makes me think we're all brainwashed into thinking in ways that benefits others and hurts us! What about if a knife works well, it won't " look" or "feel" right? Same thing on LT Wright. I heard he runs them soft because of the dipshits misusing knives that forces him to. What we have is an industry ( knives) that's a perfect vehicle for college graduate marketing companies to profit of of. We pay more for less and beautiful knives are caught in the crossfire!!!!! I'm doing something about it on my own and not gonna blab about it. Cheers to the ones commenting here and to the video poster.
And again..... given the way the climate is right now with the community!!!! You'd seriously think a company like that would NOT release anything new in magnacut UNTIL it is where its supposed to be heat treated in the first place!!!! Idk understand... why create headaches for yourself when they can be prevented.....I just don't understand that!!!
There is no reason to pay the premium for a production, premium-steel knife if it is not heat-treated to get the performance out of it. One is better to support the custom makers who are willing to do things right (but they too need to be independently-tested and held accountable for their work). Thanks Shayne.
Would never waste hard earned money on a Hinderer. Charging premium money for underwhelming performance is something that no user wants unless it's just a show piece that never gets used. Thanks for the great vid and keep making sharp things fun and enjoyable
Are they even show pieces? I mean for a fraction of those prices, you can have a great looking and functional quality product.
I've already sent Hinderer a nasty email. I can't defend him on this. Larrin states clearly on multiple videos 63-64 for toughness. I'm just sick!
I think PhD Thomas says hardness going higher increased strength. Then ( when / if) it DOES fail it at higher stress. I'M FOR that!
I’ll never buy a Hinderer. $500 for bad geometry and a soft heat treat. Nope. Not to mention their piss poor customer service and attitude toward the people who purchase their knives. Dude charges $100 for a single Micarta scale like GTFOH.
I'm with you. If they gonna charge 500, it
Better be right . It's like buying a Ferrari with a Volkswagen engine. That's why I go with spyderco 100% of the time because I'm not rich enough to waste my money . Good video, brother 👍
Thumbs up
It's much more difficult and more expensive to machine any steel over 61 HRC. That's why most companies top out there, regardless of steel. Any BS about toughness is PR.
This was very passionately done from the heart, and I wish Rick would watch it! I've never been a Hinderer fan, but I know that his fans are loyal. I think more of them should let go of the "status" they think they achieve with owning his knives, take a bite of that humble pie, and hold his ass accountable just like you are!
I'm embarrassed to admit but a small part of my motivation in acquiring this was clout. I do love the design and the feel I just can't understand why he wouldn't make it perfect when it's so close and so easy to achieve
@EDGY AMERICAN nothing wrong with being proud of things like this at all. He just needs to do what's right in keeping it something to be proud of. After all, how can you be proud of a $700 knife that you have to sharpen at the end of every work day? It just doesn't hold up to the price tag, unfortunately.
I've never really liked Hinderers designs. After all the BS with transparent knives will never buy one of his knives. Now he just says f you! People will still buy my soft knives.
That sucks Edgy. Hate to see you out of sorts, bud. Hope your evening goes better 🍻
Great video Shane, I appreciate your passion. With my “usage” I will probably never know the difference, but I hate being seen and treated as a sucker and the Project X now looks less cool to me.
Bob, as soon as you sharpen it once, you’ll see the difference. MC at 63-64 is a joy and deburrs easily. MC
I’ve got a S45V XM18 and am satisfied with it. It fills my collector brain need to have a Hinderer. I have less than no desire to own another one now. I already own more CRKs than I’ll ever need and they’re all S45V too but I might have to pick up one of the new Sebenzas in Magnacut just because I know they’re doing a proper heat treat. I’m also really looking forward to the ABW model 2 and the Tactile Knives Maverick cause they’re both aiming for the proper heat treat.
The s45vn xm18 was cut tested already. I think outpost76 did it.
@@Ronmeag you are ignorant.
Love love you sebenza in magnacut. Really takes it to another level in my opinion. They heat treated it properly. It holds an edge, sharpens up great, and strops back to hair splitting sharp.
Gotta be the best title ive seen in a min, gotta grab my popcorn🍿
"Anywhere between 59 and 64 on the Rockwell hardness scale can work great, and MagnaCut steel can be heat-treated to a range of hardnesses depending on the application. I know some out there give specific hardness targets they think are ideal, or claim a knife is no good below a certain hardness. But I feel that ignores the balance of properties you get at different hardness points." -Larrin Thomas
Finally someone who speaks it like it is. why spent 500 bones on garbage heat treat. The extra money would be miniscule to get the correct hrc. First video of yours I've watched and you've got a new sub! Thank man.
👍✊️💜🤘 Not a penny!!! With ya brother.
Medford put out Magnacut, had issues, stopped using it until they fixed the hardness issue and made sure it was 100% correct before using it again, same on there new ASK knives. I’ve seen a few Hinderer knives in person and I wasn’t impressed. Unfortunately after seeing this video it furthers my impressions on his work. I’d rather buy a Chris Reeve or Medford.
The hinderer fanboys are more then willing to accept mediocre quality. When it should be those guys that are the ones holding hinderer to higher standards.
💯
100%
👌👍
I love rick hinderer🤣🤣🤣
The video is a bit strange ("there is zero use for this")
2 weeks research @ magnacut
60-61
-finer edge with more bite
-No Diamond stones "required"
-less chance of end of with a broken tip when using knife as a "pry bar" because of slightly increased toughness
63-64 hrc
-glassier edge with less bite
+~15% edge retention
I think it comes down to the heat treat for a real quality magnacut blade.
I would like to know neeves final conclusion on sharpening and using hinderer heat treat. I hope he is objectiv as he is linking up with TK these days.
I know CRK is doing it at 63-64 so
I would like to see them in comparison.
In my opinion hinderers are very good knifes,but im not a hardcore cutter anyways.
Where is Scuba Steve when we need him 🤿
Super steel Steve ;)
That's why I'll never waste my money buying a hinderer!! Thanks for the great video brother!
Hinderers are good for one thing. To resale for a profit. They've never held an edge. Never ever. The geometry is crap...all hinderers have ever been to me is an investment. There's no reason to buy a hinderer to be a user. They could say it was magnacut at 63 and I wouldn't be able to tell if they really used s90v. I don't use knives enough to care ...if the edge will last a month at my job I'm good. I've had 14c28n do that, I've had aus-8 do that. I've had aus-8 fail to do that. I've had s90v fail to do that. I don't use a knife all day so personally I don't care...but those are valid points Shayne. What happens when China starts heat treating the way we want it.
Your 100% on this. At 63HRC it would have word of mouthed throughout the community and been sold out as fast as they could churn them. They need up their game on QC and knife community relations. Barking at Transparent left a rotten taste in me mouth. And years ago they blamed me for them grinding their edge too hot. I say its obviously a “Factory” edge….all purple N black….they hung up. J,s knife looked cool though. Great content Edge.
Lol. “Sold out as fast as they could churn them”. Bro, go try to buy one. They already are sold out. The website damn near crashes at every drop haha.
From what I read Crucible says the optimal hrc is 62.5.
Nobody is going to tell him what to do with his company. I've heard him say it plenty of times in his videos 🧝♂️🤣😂
Hopefully his crappy company fades into oblivion
Hopefully he finds out what he's doing wrong
People who can't adapt and listen to their customers end up fading away. That's the real American way.
He just keeps digging his hole deeper. No excuses for what he's doing. I won't support him. Great video brother Shayne 👍
This type of drama is why I ditched social media.
He is absolutely right.
I loved how the knife community rallied behind Transparent Knives while Hinderer had his lawyers send a cease and desist letter. My goodness, what an awful letter that was. He skimps on his legal team like he skimps on his heat-treat, I guess.
I'm like you Shayne, if you're going to do something then do it as good as you possibly can.
Sadly there are only a few that are heat treating it properly. I have a Terra Knives Forester in magnacut 64 hrc. And it has amazingly ridiculous good performance.
Maybe these US heat treating companies should start charging more for steels not treated to protocol?
The rsk/mini rsk sprints in magnacut were ~200 and 63-64hrc...
Further proof that there is absolutely no excuse
Original rsk's runs were 60-62. They only fixed it late last year early this year.
@@tacticalcenter8658 Original hogue rsks were in m390, then they changed to 20cv, only the carbon fiber sprints are in magnacut. I think you're thinking of the lightweight Deka?
@@nebulamask81 I mean the first batches of magnacut for any of the knives they did. M390 and 20cv from houge never did well in outpost76 testing. Magnacut at 62 did better slightly iirc. Magnacut at 63-64 did really well.
@@tacticalcenter8658 The RSK sprints in Magnacut were both 63-64, but they did those after the initial Magnacut Deka runs so that may well be why.
The m390 on my RSK and the 20cv on my mini are both pretty average to slightly above average.
I haven't had any experience with their magnacut in the Deka, but I can understand if the early Dekas were on the softer side since there wasn't as much information about it that early on. They were the first or one of the first to use it in a large production knife and good on them for changing their HT due to feedback. Imo that's quite a bit different situation than with what's going on with Hinderer if he is putting them out at 60 with what we know now.
Michael Martin honestly is a fantastic example of how to do it right. I've had to send my m1v6 in multiple times. Even once because I fucked it up. Never once did he even question it, just "yup send her in I'll check it out" it will come back to me with a new blade or a new lock bar liner in under a week
Same with 20cv at 58-60 hrc at many companies.
Even companies doing these steels at 61 with poor microstructure are low performance too. They just need to modify the protocol and they could get 60-61 that performs in the 62-63 range with their current protocol. Its sad they have no knowledge about heat treat and steels.
I also have the same exact knife in your video except mine has a red g10 scale and that factory edge on it was absolutely horrendous, I had to put a new edge on it myself with the new worksharp precision adjust pro, Rick Hinderer is also known for being a jerk, I don't understand why he refuses to fix the heat treat on his knives
Preach
You hit the nail on the head - Hinderer collectors collect the name, not the product. There are better knives for the money.
I just don't get it, why make such a damn nice product and have the chance to quiet all the complaints and just deciding not to.
@@shaynegablespkr this is how I think of bestech in a way. The knives are over priced to begin with but also poor performance m390 and 20cv is not worth it. So they have knives in the 400 range that should be no more than 200 give or take.
It's because no one knows the cost these things really are and they are not calling it out due to ignorance.
I love this just exactly what I was thinking 😊
6:18 truth
I approve this message 💯% 👍👍👍.
This whole situation is dumb af. Optimal blade hardness is a range and what is deemed 'best' is subjective. A harder blade has better edge retention, but is also more brittle and harder to sharpen. A less hard blade will have a higher toughness. Magnacut is the same way. It's not some magical material. This stuff just isn't that complicated. People just love drama.
Not completely true. Magnacut gets tougher at 64 hrc.
It actually doesn't. Just as EVERY other steel... as the HRC goes up, toughness goes down. Its peak toughness is at the lowest end of the heat treatment scale. Just because something can reach a higher HRC doesn't mean it needs to. There are trade offs that the makes has to take into account. A lower hardness doesn't mean the maker doesn't know what he's doing. You may not like that RH is heat treating his knives a certain way... but that's entirely on you. You have a certain set of subjective criteria that you have determined all knife makers should adhere to and that's an unreasonable expectation. They have an idea of what they want from their knives and if it meats THEIR expectations, then it was done correctly. How utterly ridiculous that you would crap on a knife maker for not hardening their blades to the HRC you want... Do you do this for every steel, or is it just in this one particular instance? I hate to be the bearer of bad news... but every maker hardens steels of all kinds a little bit differently than everyone else. Some are harder than others. It's not a reason to freak out.@@shaynegablespkr
It actually does. As with any steel at a certain point the steel will become brittle but magnacut is tougher at 63 than 61, it's not the only steel that reacts this way. The "old" statement that lower hrc is tougher is broadly correct but not in every steel. There's nothing wrong with the HRC range Rick used....it's the same range Case used and many others but the XM18 is an otherwise perfect performance cutting tool. Why not make every aspect perfect. There lies the disappointment.
NO! Magnacut is LESS tough the higher you go. @@shaynegablespkr
You need to spend your hard earned American cash dollars not on junk!....Chris Reeve knives have you covered!
I own a CRK, these knives are on loan from BladeOps
i cant believe he let everyone down especially after that long dragged out transparent confrontation after that i just knew he was gonna make one that would make me wanna spend that kinda money an low an behold what a let down
Thanks for making this known to the knife world. You just saved me thousands of $$$$. I'll stick with tried and true CRK which does things right. No Hinderer's in my future now.
Even if it would've cost more money, he would've quadrupled that amount and added it to the customer, probably another 50. I wanted a hinderer this year too, fuck that & him
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but it seems like you’ve based your entire video on what some person behind a counter (at Blade Show) told somebody else that the HRC is 60 to 61. If that’s actually fact, then so be it. Have you, or anyone else unbiased, actually had the steel tested?? If not, that would be my FIRST priority… especially before cursing and bashing someone off of hearsay! Just my thinkin’! ;-}. MM
Completely understandable thinking. I got the HRC from Rick Hinderer himself so I wouldn't think testing it would be necessary unless his honesty was in question. I haven't had reason to question his honesty as of yet.
First off hinderer is a dumbest saying that they run m390/ 20cv soft for toughness because they aren't tough steels. And if they wanted tough blades then 3v, 4v, cruwear would be way better choices, but he'd run that soft too. The one and only reason they run there steels at 61rc or under is the company's that do the bevel grinding won't grind steel over 62rc without changing out the abrasives they use and charging more. Hinderer makes knives for collectors and fan boys, not as a performance cutting tool.
As someone who only owns one knife for Hindere I'm neither a fan boy or a collector. I bought an XM18 3 years and have absolutely put it through the ringer and it absolutely has held up. To say it's not a performance steel Is just silly . It's not the greatest knife of all time like some swear, but it absolutely takes a beating
I really want to get my hands on some Magnacut some time, but all the drama about heat treatment, plus the fact that half the major brands never even say what their target is makes it difficult. Are there any production brands that do Magnacut consistently well?
American Blade Works runs it at 63 to 64 for a knife priced at $200 they have consistently sold out though.
Maybe Hinderer just likes professional sharpeners so much that he made a knife that needs to be re-sharpened daily😂😂😂
Must see tv
LMAO!!!!😂
Hey Beez where can I find the vosteed grind??
Isn't that the Scandi grind? BEEZ did just do a video on it
At the end of the day our wants don't effect him until it hits his bottom line. Vote with your wallets
So what are you saying you don't like it,still unsure.lol😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I love it, the build, the design, the materials, all EXCELLENT just one simple step from perfection
All I’m hearing is blah blah - it’s a solid knife.
It is, it's 99% perfect
wanted one long while now an thats exactly why i aint pulled the trigger cause of that bullpuckey right there ur pointing out, would much rather spend half the money for greater performance no doubt
They told Neeves 60-61 BTW 😅
A lot of crying about performance on here from dudes who never actually use their knife for anything actually deemed hard use lol. You guys buy 500 dollar knives for Amazon boxes.
I bought a project x at blade show Texas the day I got home I saw neeves video and a wave of disappointment hit me
Oh! My man! I feel for your pain!
I agree with your point but damn. Take a chill pill! Just don’t buy his knives! First time to watch… and last time to watch. You turned a 2 statements of advice to your audience to not buy Hinderer into to a 16 min repetitive curse filled rant.
My main issue with the 20CV on my Gen 4 XM is how much of a pain it is to deburr.
I'm sure you know this, but typically knives with low HT are hard to deburr and with the higher run stuff the burr with come right off
That’s my main gripe about my Hinderer and why I enjoy my tool steel Spydercos so much.
Why would a knife maker run their blades soft?
99% of the people who buy Hinderer blades (they sell out everywhere) don't give a rats ass about 60 hrc or 63 HRC Magnacut. Rick will keep selling as long as his knives literally fly off the shelves. Love your passion...but your opinion is just that. Won't change his astronomical sales sadly. Thanks for video
That’s why I went with a strider I will never purchase a hinderer
One weekend of Brant hanging out with Hinderer and he comes on Pocket Metal's livestream saying that he's a "celebrity". 😂
No kidding
Good ole Branty
Perfect example of a RHK fanboy. That dude would buy a fart in a bottle from Little Rick.
When I got into knives people couldn’t spell hrc. Now it’s just another thing for steel snobs to sneer at 90 percent of people barely use them and couldn’t sharpen it anyways it behooves me people get emotional over numbers on knives tbh no matter what anybody says his knives will sell out in seconds and nothing will change that
Great information man,thank you for this incredibly important information about another overpriced Hype product.
👍🏻🔥
Done with them too- Not sure why they decided to go against the grain on everything they produce, and not move forward with the times-
Unfortunately, your entire premise that Magnacut is tougher at higher rockwell is flat wrong. Larrin has never said this. In fact, I'll quote him on it and provide a link to where he said the quote so you can hear the words from his own mouth. Suffice it to say, though, that there is NO steel that that gets tougher at it's maximum recommended hardness. There is no "something for nothing" steel.
"The benefit to magnacut is that it matches the toughness and wear-resistance of non-stainless steels like 4V and therefore puts us in a new category for stainless steels. It can be heat treated to higher hardness for enhanced edge stability for more acute edges, better cutting ability, and better edge retention without sacrificing toughness when compared with previous stainless steels, or kept at a more conservative hardness when raw toughness is desired." - Larrin Thomas, th-cam.com/video/a5lzf8LA03o/w-d-xo.html at 11:33
Hinder = no ethics
I don’t know spit about knives but I will say I bought my XM-18 simply because I really liked the design, the shape, the fit in my hand and the feel of the presentation.
What’s a better knife that’s American made, that shares the liner lock and overall quality? I’ll buy it. But the knives you mentioned and show here don’t really spark any interest to me personally.
I don’t have a dog in this fight really other than the fact I bought a way too expensive knife that’s got his name on it. But I also have a ZT that’s similar that’s NOT American made. ? I’m not trying to be a smart ass or rude, I’m genuinely asking.
Check out the Spartan Harsey Folder. Similar look to the Hinderer, American made, full titanium, available in a large or small size, and very solid build quality.
@@rssbrry thank you 🙏 I will check them out.
You bought your Xm18 for all the right reasons. If you're not having issues with edge retention then enjoy. It's a great knife
I own the best Hinderer imo and it’s made by ZT. Spent a whole $8 on it. Got to love wraffles.
At this point I’m don’t think I’m going to buy another knife for the rest of my life. I’ve really lost the love for them and don’t need or want anymore. Would rather buy ammo with my money. There’s about to be a new TH-cam and instagram name. Coming soon…
Zt have poor microstructure, bad lock geometry and worse social media people in the world. They are also stick in their ways and make cringe designs.
I have more zt's than any company probably. I do like the 0560cf despite its Con's. But knowing what I know now, I would have avoided them long ago.
Zt magnacut will 60-62 iirc. And thats if your lucky they dont burn the edges.
Waffles sure are nice when you win. But if you dont win you end up paying a lot for nothing.
@@tacticalcenter8658my lock is perfectly fine on my 0562cf. I’ve wacked the crap out of it. Plus on a frame lock you hand squeezing most likely won’t have any issues.
Im a very lucky person when it comes to wraffles and giveaways. I have a $10 Inkosi 🤷🏻 I really don’t play in many wraffles probably only played in 10 and have won 5 times. Never spent more than $10 to enter so I think I’m doing pretty good.
@@JOMO_EDC th-cam.com/video/RiVuR5wcn7I/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for this Rick Hinderer is a arrogant snake
"little rick" that cracked me up!😂
hinderer knives is a p* of sh* company in my opinion, i bought a xm-18 a few years back and the knife was in a really bad state; blade was so off that it almost hit the liner when i closed it, also the detent was just a mess.
tried to contact his company 5 times in the following 3 months via email, never got a response.
Its all in his name Hinderer lol
Wheres Brant?
I have 3 xm-18's and all have issues.
Or you simply buy Hinderers tha don’t have M390 blades. LoL 😂
this sounds like my old plastic company .. heat treat was lowered with misuse of cryo by head office and guess what crappy plastic.. over 10 years of international experience... warranties and all .. I am shocked they changed for a quick buck.. they are closed now.. Karma
Chris Reeve knives....Have always been superior to Hinderer knives!....Heat 🔥 treat tolerance ect.!
So I'm guessing Charlie Sheen would buy a handful of these knives,, pays 1000 to 5000 a piece for 20 knifes..put them in a display case and think he has something.
When the landscaper in his yard, has a sharper blade that retains its edge and generally does any task better for 170 bucks.. just saying.
I got the fish-eye on Benchmade because I heard they'll make a model out of S90V and deliver it soft. I won't, if I can help it, buy a knife charging for a ally then not pushing it! So why use it? For marketing and moving numbers. That's no reason for me to want to be overcharged! The knives that are a business success suck more than less star quality knife enthusiasts darlings!
Yep 🤷🤷
Rick Hinderer don’t surf
He's just a bit dodgy all around...
Wtf!? I hate getting a alloy and then charging for it then not pushing it! Why charge us for it and in advance not planning to push it?????GRRRRRRRR
It's almost seems un-american for an American company like hinderer to have low heat treats 🤔
Well guess you should be getting a lawsuit soon !!
I ain't got shit. Can't
Sue someone on
Disability
@@shaynegablespkr 😂😂😂👍👍
Hate to say it your all wrong.. Not about the blade steel of course about the knife itself.. Hinderers are fucking fantastic knives.. Get them in S45VN dummies.. There great.. Shayne your the man but i hate to say it #rickhindererrules.. Btw i would never use my hinderer enough to scratch.. Its too pretty 🤣🤣🤣.. plus has anyone actually tested the magnacut or is this just here say? Seriously tho from my experience hinderers is one of the only knives that are actually worth the price.. that is real talk from someone whos had alot of other bullshit American knives.. Hinderers quality is is on point.. idgaf about the heat treat. I wanna nice knife at that price point.. Also you are right though 😂🤣🤣.
Chaz I love my XM18 I'm not mad because it's bad. I'm mad because it would have been so easy to make it the best.....across the board the best design out there
@@shaynegablespkr i know.. i started off trolling and the started rambling and wrote a book.. I actually think your right.. Its irritating that they put out a good cake but dont put icing on it
Hinderer with no logo?
?
Why even buy magnacut at that HRC? Such a massive waste!
This is disappointing. I really was looking forward to adding a Hinderer to the collection.
It's a knife bro. Not an idol. Or is it?
I will have to put some thought into that
@EDGY AMERICAN bless you brother in Jesus Christ name. I'm picky about my knives as well. I pretty much was preaching to the choir.
So..I realize that guy had said that...... but has anyone taken one and actually tested it!!???maybe it's higher!!!!!maybe that guy doesn't actually know like for 100%sure and is saying that to be safe!!!....or maybe there starting out lower... but then hopefully they'll get it up where it should be if it isn't already!!!?? Idk I'm just wondering...
Someone did test one already and from what is understood RH formally threatened to sue him for talking about it.
It was mentioned in the video you’re watching.
@@wesb123 Jesus....seriously???? My God..... he must have something to hide then.... lol cuz high hrc numbers is what will most certainly sell large numbers of knives...
@@nickmartino2839 the argument from most of his bois is that HRC doesn’t matter because the knife will still do what it’s supposed to. It’s like they are completely blind to the fact that a $400 legacy brand shouldn’t get it’s butt kicked by a $50 Civivi.
@@nickmartino2839 The one that Transparent knives tested is an older model in 20CV I think. Idk if these new Magnacut ones have been tested yet. There's a lot of videos about it just look up "Rick Hinderer Transparent Knives" or "Rick Hinderer is twat" 😂
Don't own a Hinderer, probably won't ever own one. Everyone has their own opinion. Mine falls very close to this video. good luck
I used to want the project x but I lost interest. Some companies are stuck in their ways & pump out blades in the easiest way possible rather than “the best way” possible. To me, that shows greed & malicious intent so I won’t support it.
Hinderer knives have always been a rip off. Way overpriced and garbage 💩💩💩🗑️🗑️🗑️
I thought this hrc witch hunt was funny . Nobody even uses these knives for anything besides cutting paper 📃
@kylehudson1395 very true, but he switched to s45 which he does better so good for him.
All this makes me think we're all brainwashed into thinking in ways that benefits others and hurts us! What about if a knife works well, it won't " look" or "feel" right? Same thing on LT Wright. I heard he runs them soft because of the dipshits misusing knives that forces him to. What we have is an industry ( knives) that's a perfect vehicle for college graduate marketing companies to profit of of. We pay more for less and beautiful knives are caught in the crossfire!!!!! I'm doing something about it on my own and not gonna blab about it. Cheers to the ones commenting here and to the video poster.
I don’t think I can remember ever hearing a grown man get so emotional and his panties in such a wad over a knife!😂
My panties are easily wadable. Thanks for watching
And again..... given the way the climate is right now with the community!!!! You'd seriously think a company like that would NOT release anything new in magnacut UNTIL it is where its supposed to be heat treated in the first place!!!! Idk understand... why create headaches for yourself when they can be prevented.....I just don't understand that!!!
Idc magnacut isnt all that good so over hyped
It's relative to who's Magnacut you're speaking of.
@@shaynegablespkr houge,microtech,protech,benxhmade,kershaw,spyderco
Then none over 62..... that's why. It's a good average steel until you get around 64 HRC then it's top tier. Try a ABW or Transparent Knives
@shaynegablespkr maybe worth a shot. I love my m4 for now.