Its interesting how you watch says you started at around 3ish O'clock, and then ended SOONER at around 1:53 !!! Amazing speed, you made time go backwards! :-)
I'm pretty sure that yes, you need some modifications to make work lithium batteries in roomba in the best way, otherwise or you'll ruin the roomba or make the batteries to last for only six months.
My Nastima battery DIED after a short run of about ~6months. But I did not remove it off the charger as I was supposed to. So maybe would last longer if I just did the charge and then unplugged as soon as I see it full.
I replaced the old Ni-HM battery with a Li-Ion battery with BMS, and now the iRobot 780 vacuum cleaner doesn't recognize it when charging. Error 1, what to do with it?
Wow! this was amazing to watch the design process. I would change the title of the Video to include [BATTERY DESIGN PROCESS]. maybe you'll get more hits? I also really appreciate your talking thru hazards like heating, follow up testing, welding, watching for puffs of smoke :) I would have liked some more talk on how the BMU works as you were building (thinking a head while you build). I've never seen a home spot welder before either... it's going on my Christmas list :)
Good evening from france , Your roomba lithium ion mod is brilliant i bought the same bms , and i m gonna do the same thing . Could you please help me sharing your stl . Ii would be very kool thank you very much . Arnold
I have not had any issues and I'm technically not using an 18650 Charger. I am just using a 4s 18650 bms that I had kicking around. I use the original dock and have not had any issues, as each cell reaches 4.2v the bms disconnects it... Technically this doesn't follow any specification for charging an 18650. So I would recommend that you search for a 4s 18650 Charger and balance module, but you would need to check if the module actually does what it's supposed to because many do not. I have not experienced any heating issues or anything like that, iRobot has drop in replacement lithium batteries for old Roombas and you can use the original dock. Thanks for watching!
@@havinfun4014 Thank you for your quick response, I will indeed immerse myself in the matter before I start. And I did indeed see ready-made Li-Ion Replacem batteries online and you can also simply charge them with a standard base charger. Nice channel tnx ... Greetings from the Netherlands
@@havinfun4014 thanks so much for confirming the BMSs over-voltage won't trigger (which would disconnect the battery, requiring on/off cycling to resume). Can you please upload the STL to thingiverse for us poor design-limited souls who would love to 3D print your cool interface plate ??? Thanks again !!!
Roomba wont finish the charging cycle. Original nimh battery drops voltage a little bit and mcu of roomba notices that so terminates the charging. With lion it wont be and bms will cut the power off toward battery becasue roomba charges up to 21v and even more. So roomba will charge lion and at the end roomba will show err5 :) other magic trick here is needed ;) regards
@@havinfun4014 That's an old thread but I'm experiencing this exact error. The BMS terminates charging when the Liion battery pack is full (4.2V / cell) and at that time I get the Error 5. Probably because the current goes to 0 instantly. Maybe your BMS is different or something... I would really like to know how to solve that.
See @andrewsb5879 1 year later!!! Cc CV charger already built in just solder extended 1.7mOhm (need to avoid error 5 and pull down woltage) resistance to 207 resistor in main bird and it will work well I check it.
Fernando M. hace 33 minutos (editado) The problem with the old Roombas is that the firmware is not prepared for the lithium charging parameters and they normally end up with Error or some worse: charges but damaging the Lithium batteries. In fact once the charge is completed, a 50 mA stand-by charge (know as 'trickle charge') is applied in a continuos cycle between 40 (start) and 42 ºC (stop) intended for typical Ni-MH self-discharge, wich for Lithium should not be applied cause is hamful. In fact Lithium batteries have not worked for me neither in my Ni-MH old 560, 531 or 650, in some cases due to Error 1 or 5, and in others it apparently worked, but the battery died after only 6 months, which implies an enormous 'mistreatment' in charging (probably after a a lot of hours of damaging tricke charge), because an original iRobot 1800 mAh lithium battery must live at least 4 years (my 671's one only lost 15-20 minutes in this period after 2000 hours of use) ... I confirmed asking about to iRobot about and was confirmed, Ni-MH for Ni-MH Roombas, and Lithium for Lithium Roombas Good luck!
It run ok with Lithium, but it has problem with charger system. So the importance thing here is how to mod the charging. Ni-MH charging with 14.4V, Lithium have to charge with 16.8V.
@@vuquan3163 This is the Ni-MH battery charge sequence and end conditions for old Roombas 500 & 600 extracted from Roomba 500 Service Manual: 1) Charge circuit (FET) check: if it fails, the charge is interrupted 2) Pre-charge cooling {0mA} Until the battery temperature is below 50°C, or an END OF CHARGE condition is met 3) Charge: runs until an END OF CHARGE condition is met in one of the following modes: - NORMAL {1250mA} if the battery voltage is higher than 10.8V (AMBER LED FLASHING) - RECOVERY {300mA} if the battery voltage is less than 10.8V. (FAST AMBER LED) 4) Post-charge cooling {0mA}: Until the temperature drops below 35°C, or 2 hours pass. (STEADY GREEN LED) 5) STANDBY CHARGE {50mA} - Runs indefinitely, stops if temperature exceeds 42°C, and re-enables when it drops below 40°C (STEADY GREEN LED) END OF CHARGE. Charging ends if one of these conditions is met on the battery: a) If the voltage drops more than 30 mV from the maximum voltage. b) If the temperature increases more than 0.5 ° C per minute. c) If the measured load is more than 2 times the nominal. d) If the time in NORMAL mode exceeds 9 hours e) If the time in RECOVERY mode exceeds 16 hours f) If the battery temperature exceeds 60 ° C for 1 minute. g) If the Battery Voltage exceeds 21.6 V for 1 minute. h) If the battery has been discharged less than 150 mAh since the last full charge. According to g) voltage value is not a limitation for LIthium, a), b) and f) conditions works well for Ni-MH, and do not so much for Lithium , but the main problem for Lithium is 5) due to nomal maximum use of Roomba is 1-2 hours /day, and the rest of the time is overloaded in the dock. By means of my new 671 Roomba connected to my phone with a serial cable (Cable USB UART TTL Serial Port1) and using app ('Serial terminal USB') I saw lithium battery charge is a more simple procces than Ni-MH, and and the fact that new firmware can detect the type of battery and apply a different charge sequence, and tricke charge or not depending of is a Ni-H or Lithium battery. This was tested with the original iRobot X-life and Lithium 1800, I don't know if works with third parties batteries. Obviously use a Ni-MH in a Lithium Roomba only has the sense of taking advantage of an old battery But I didn't find any practical solution to charge a Lithium battery in an old Roomba avoiding degradation: Neither extract and charge the battery externally (charger or other Lithium Roomba), nor be aware of removing the roomba from the dock after charging. For all this, and due to in Spain a second hand 671, 675 or 676 (same model, different year with 1800 mAh Lithium) can be easily purchased for 80 euros (this price really means Roomba is one the most failed gift...), and especially considering the great advantage of the lithium battery, does not degrade because a seller had not used it in the last year (in Ni-MH this is total battery destruction), I have prefered use the modules of my old 531/650 for spare parts, and replace by these new 600's. About a Roomba Lithium battery 'well treated', my first 671 bought new in october 2018, after 1804 services and 1162 hours (I can see it in app historial) the authonomy is 65 minutes, versus 100-110 min of my 3 second hand Roombas 671/676 purchased in 2021 (iRobot specification is 90 min.). But the most important of this info is I saw the great part of this 671 capacity loss was when in 2109 -because of my lack of information-, I tested and used some weeks this lithium 671 battery I my old 650. Regards.
Black wire is just first ground then first red wire connect after first battery then next after next battery. Or wait.I am a make video for guys who need upgrade their Roomba to lion batteries. With all theory, wirings and 3d printed models.
And lets us know if it's a motor wheel failure or the front swivel wheel sticking? and the answer if your wondering NO YOU CAN'T1 unless you have a battery management system or plan on a nice warm fire that's unstoppable but funny!
Wow, my friend, your channel is very cool, but your hands, shake a lot and this is very complicated to deal with these welding, but that's it my friend congratulations on the channel, I already left my like
@@havinfun4014 thanks for replying friend, already followed your channel, and a look at my channel has some cool places here in Brazil see and enjoy :)
Why do you ever upload video before you test all. You cant use that pcb for charging with original charger, after few charge you will get overheat cell with 0V. And you will ask why, crap pcb and not li-ion charger.
battery management is the key or the pack will over charge and could catch fire and litho fire is great for the 4th of July, but sucks ass in your house like you can't imagine!
Thing the same. But buy bms 4s and try to find out it. 1 with over voltage protection and second with only over current. Try to use on lithium ferrum fosphate 18650. Just for safety.
Still up and running, no modifications to the base charger. Having said that, as some comments have stated, a small 18650 charging circuit in addition to the balance board would be a safer approach. Thanks for watching.
Cc CV charger already built in just solder extended 1.7mOhm (need to avoid error 5 and pull down woltage) resistance to 207 resistor in main bird and it will work well I check it.
@@andrewsb5879 Where do I put this 1.7mOhm resistor in between? I made 4s pack with BMS board and it charges fine, but I get this error 5 at the end of charging when the BMS board terminates charging.
For those in the real world, that got charge errors, you need to add a 10 k thermistor across the two smaller contacts. First time I shorted them with tin foil. never charged up because the foil was draining as fast as the batteries charged. The iRoomba itself has a brain and you do not need a bms. The lithium cells will never get a full charge. The lower voltage that makes the Roomba stop is compatible with the lithium cells. Calling this vid BS.
@Havin'Fun Can you share the stl files for the 3d printed parts?
Its interesting how you watch says you started at around 3ish O'clock, and then ended SOONER at around 1:53 !!! Amazing speed, you made time go backwards! :-)
Did you use the factory charger? Dont you need to use something else like an RC charger that will give CC and CV ?
I'm pretty sure that yes, you need some modifications to make work lithium batteries in roomba in the best way, otherwise or you'll ruin the roomba or make the batteries to last for only six months.
nice work, quite professional, whats happened to your videos? no more vids?
link to bms board source would have been good
Hi... I've a asking about the BMS/PCB. The version is 4S 40S? Is that correct?
4s. 4x18650.
i have problem while charging after upgraded, its not full and over voltage, its said full but not,
any stl for your battery holder?
I was going to do the exact same thing for my roomba. Thanks for sharing.
Nastima is actually selling a product like this with bms included.
My Nastima battery DIED after a short run of about ~6months. But I did not remove it off the charger as I was supposed to. So maybe would last longer if I just did the charge and then unplugged as soon as I see it full.
Nice video. Do you have the part number for the BMS board?
Hi. Is it the thermocouple that you removed from the old battery and attached to the new battery? If so, can you measure the resistance and tell me?
I replaced the old Ni-HM battery with a Li-Ion battery with BMS, and now the iRobot 780 vacuum cleaner doesn't recognize it when charging. Error 1, what to do with it?
I got same issue. Is there any solution?
Bad contact between Roomba and battery
@@fatihsaygin2355 it's somehow reconciled, and now it's charging
Wow! this was amazing to watch the design process. I would change the title of the Video to include [BATTERY DESIGN PROCESS]. maybe you'll get more hits? I also really appreciate your talking thru hazards like heating, follow up testing, welding, watching for puffs of smoke :)
I would have liked some more talk on how the BMU works as you were building (thinking a head while you build).
I've never seen a home spot welder before either... it's going on my Christmas list :)
Lithium charger?
Did you add a lithium charger?
Yea i want to know too
Subscribed...it alive! LOL...what is the wall for? Please
Hi. Is it the thermocouple that you removed from the old battery and attached to the new battery? If so, can you measure the resistance and tell me?
Good evening from france ,
Your roomba lithium ion mod is brilliant i bought the same bms , and i m gonna do the same thing .
Could you please help me sharing your stl .
Ii would be very kool thank you very much .
Arnold
Quan trọng có bị lỗi sạc k khi thay pin litium
Greet Video Tnx... I want to upgrade also, One question do i need a li-ion charger or can i use the Stock charger?
I have not had any issues and I'm technically not using an 18650 Charger. I am just using a 4s 18650 bms that I had kicking around. I use the original dock and have not had any issues, as each cell reaches 4.2v the bms disconnects it... Technically this doesn't follow any specification for charging an 18650. So I would recommend that you search for a 4s 18650 Charger and balance module, but you would need to check if the module actually does what it's supposed to because many do not. I have not experienced any heating issues or anything like that, iRobot has drop in replacement lithium batteries for old Roombas and you can use the original dock. Thanks for watching!
@@havinfun4014 Thank you for your quick response, I will indeed immerse myself in the matter before I start. And I did indeed see ready-made Li-Ion Replacem batteries online and you can also simply charge them with a standard base charger. Nice channel tnx ... Greetings from the Netherlands
I love your idea I have one question can you share the stl file so I can print it too. It looks much profesional tnahk you so much
@@havinfun4014 thanks so much for confirming the BMSs over-voltage won't trigger (which would disconnect the battery, requiring on/off cycling to resume). Can you please upload the STL to thingiverse for us poor design-limited souls who would love to 3D print your cool interface plate ??? Thanks again !!!
Roomba wont finish the charging cycle. Original nimh battery drops voltage a little bit and mcu of roomba notices that so terminates the charging. With lion it wont be and bms will cut the power off toward battery becasue roomba charges up to 21v and even more. So roomba will charge lion and at the end roomba will show err5 :) other magic trick here is needed ;) regards
I have never experienced a single error since this project was completed.
@@havinfun4014 did you try to charge by home station? ;)
@@playplay5716 only way I charge it is with the original dock
@@havinfun4014 That's an old thread but I'm experiencing this exact error. The BMS terminates charging when the Liion battery pack is full (4.2V / cell) and at that time I get the Error 5. Probably because the current goes to 0 instantly. Maybe your BMS is different or something... I would really like to know how to solve that.
There is a solution for this on GitHub. However, it involves adding a small microcontroller...
How to solve the error 5 when charging?
See
@andrewsb5879
1 year later!!!
Cc CV charger already built in just solder extended 1.7mOhm (need to avoid error 5 and pull down woltage) resistance to 207 resistor in main bird and it will work well I check it.
Older roombas have an intelligent NI-MH charger. If you put in a Lithium oack instead you DO NEED a BMS!
Fernando M.
hace 33 minutos (editado)
The problem with the old Roombas is that the firmware is not prepared for the lithium charging parameters and they normally end up with Error or some worse: charges but damaging the Lithium batteries. In fact once the charge is completed, a 50 mA stand-by charge (know as 'trickle charge') is applied in a continuos cycle between 40 (start) and 42 ºC (stop) intended for typical Ni-MH self-discharge, wich for Lithium should not be applied cause is hamful.
In fact Lithium batteries have not worked for me neither in my Ni-MH old 560, 531 or 650, in some cases due to Error 1 or 5, and in others it apparently worked, but the battery died after only 6 months, which implies an enormous 'mistreatment' in charging (probably after a a lot of hours of damaging tricke charge), because an original iRobot 1800 mAh lithium battery must live at least 4 years (my 671's one only lost 15-20 minutes in this period after 2000 hours of use) ... I confirmed asking about to iRobot about and was confirmed, Ni-MH for Ni-MH Roombas, and Lithium for Lithium Roombas
Good luck!
Still running strong, no issues at all.
It run ok with Lithium, but it has problem with charger system. So the importance thing here is how to mod the charging. Ni-MH charging with 14.4V, Lithium have to charge with 16.8V.
Best answer I have found until now. Thanks
@@vuquan3163 This is the Ni-MH battery charge sequence and end conditions for old Roombas 500 & 600 extracted from Roomba 500 Service Manual:
1) Charge circuit (FET) check: if it fails, the charge is interrupted
2) Pre-charge cooling {0mA} Until the battery temperature is below 50°C, or an END OF CHARGE condition is met
3) Charge: runs until an END OF CHARGE condition is met in one of the following modes:
- NORMAL {1250mA} if the battery voltage is higher than 10.8V (AMBER LED FLASHING)
- RECOVERY {300mA} if the battery voltage is less than 10.8V. (FAST AMBER LED)
4) Post-charge cooling {0mA}: Until the temperature drops below 35°C, or 2 hours pass. (STEADY GREEN LED)
5) STANDBY CHARGE {50mA} - Runs indefinitely, stops if temperature exceeds 42°C, and re-enables when it drops below 40°C (STEADY GREEN LED)
END OF CHARGE. Charging ends if one of these conditions is met on the battery:
a) If the voltage drops more than 30 mV from the maximum voltage.
b) If the temperature increases more than 0.5 ° C per minute.
c) If the measured load is more than 2 times the nominal.
d) If the time in NORMAL mode exceeds 9 hours
e) If the time in RECOVERY mode exceeds 16 hours
f) If the battery temperature exceeds 60 ° C for 1 minute.
g) If the Battery Voltage exceeds 21.6 V for 1 minute.
h) If the battery has been discharged less than 150 mAh since the last full charge.
According to g) voltage value is not a limitation for LIthium, a), b) and f) conditions works well for Ni-MH, and do not so much for Lithium , but the main problem for Lithium is 5) due to nomal maximum use of Roomba is 1-2 hours /day, and the rest of the time is overloaded in the dock.
By means of my new 671 Roomba connected to my phone with a serial cable (Cable USB UART TTL Serial Port1) and using app ('Serial terminal USB') I saw lithium battery charge is a more simple procces than Ni-MH, and and the fact that new firmware can detect the type of battery and apply a different charge sequence, and tricke charge or not depending of is a Ni-H or Lithium battery. This was tested with the original iRobot X-life and Lithium 1800, I don't know if works with third parties batteries. Obviously use a Ni-MH in a Lithium Roomba only has the sense of taking advantage of an old battery
But I didn't find any practical solution to charge a Lithium battery in an old Roomba avoiding degradation: Neither extract and charge the battery externally (charger or other Lithium Roomba), nor be aware of removing the roomba from the dock after charging.
For all this, and due to in Spain a second hand 671, 675 or 676 (same model, different year with 1800 mAh Lithium) can be easily purchased for 80 euros (this price really means Roomba is one the most failed gift...), and especially considering the great advantage of the lithium battery, does not degrade because a seller had not used it in the last year (in Ni-MH this is total battery destruction), I have prefered use the modules of my old 531/650 for spare parts, and replace by these new 600's.
About a Roomba Lithium battery 'well treated', my first 671 bought new in october 2018, after 1804 services and 1162 hours (I can see it in app historial) the authonomy is 65 minutes, versus 100-110 min of my 3 second hand Roombas 671/676 purchased in 2021 (iRobot specification is 90 min.). But the most important of this info is I saw the great part of this 671 capacity loss was when in 2109 -because of my lack of information-, I tested and used some weeks this lithium 671 battery I my old 650.
Regards.
@@andreiandries3594 In case you are interested, I have added additional information. Regards
i need to make one like it, please share the connections to the bms pictures. thanks Man
Black wire is just first ground then first red wire connect after first battery then next after next battery. Or wait.I am a make video for guys who need upgrade their Roomba to lion batteries. With all theory, wirings and 3d printed models.
Yes it work well just need fix error 5 and it good to go.
Well done! Wish you didnt speed up at11min, but thats oK...I think I got it(even though you changed that setup)! LOL
Pls give link on 3d file of little tray.
3d file please
please please share the 3d file!!!!
And lets us know if it's a motor wheel failure or the front swivel wheel sticking? and the answer if your wondering NO YOU CAN'T1 unless you have a battery management system or plan on a nice warm fire that's unstoppable but funny!
I never could get mine to charge after
Wow, my friend, your channel is very cool, but your hands, shake a lot and this is very complicated to deal with these welding, but that's it my friend congratulations on the channel, I already left my like
Lol thanks! Definately not gonna be a surgeon 😂 might be time to switch to decaf 🤔
@@havinfun4014 thanks for replying friend, already followed your channel, and a look at my channel has some cool places here in Brazil see and enjoy :)
PLS send my stl file, THX ..., Does anyone here have it, stl? Can you forward it to us?
Why do you ever upload video before you test all. You cant use that pcb for charging with original charger, after few charge you will get overheat cell with 0V. And you will ask why, crap pcb and not li-ion charger.
and which pcb do you recommend instead?
battery management is the key or the pack will over charge and could catch fire and litho fire is great for the 4th of July, but sucks ass in your house like you can't imagine!
Thing the same. But buy bms 4s and try to find out it. 1 with over voltage protection and second with only over current. Try to use on lithium ferrum fosphate 18650. Just for safety.
friend I loved your video I'm in this problem, after all this time there was a problem with the battery, had to modify the charger?
Still up and running, no modifications to the base charger. Having said that, as some comments have stated, a small 18650 charging circuit in addition to the balance board would be a safer approach. Thanks for watching.
👍 Please fix my Roomba too😢
You need a cc cv charger for li-ion. The original charger shouldn't be used.
Cc CV charger already built in just solder extended 1.7mOhm (need to avoid error 5 and pull down woltage) resistance to 207 resistor in main bird and it will work well I check it.
@@andrewsb5879 Where do I put this 1.7mOhm resistor in between? I made 4s pack with BMS board and it charges fine, but I get this error 5 at the end of charging when the BMS board terminates charging.
3D FILE PLEASE
For those in the real world, that got charge errors, you need to add a 10 k thermistor across the two smaller contacts. First time I shorted them with tin foil. never charged up because the foil was draining as fast as the batteries charged. The iRoomba itself has a brain and you do not need a bms. The lithium cells will never get a full charge. The lower voltage that makes the Roomba stop is compatible with the lithium cells. Calling this vid BS.