CHEAP, JUNKYARD 5.3L CAM TEST. BTR CAMSHAFT FAMILY FEUD-TRUCK NORRIS VS HOT ROD VS SS2? WHO WINS?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- WHAT IS THE BEST CAM FOR MY 5.3L LS? HOW MUCH POWER IS A CAM SWAP WORTH? IS A SMALLER CAM BETTER THAN A BIGGER CAM? HOW TO SWAP AN LS CAM. DOES A SLOPPY STAGE 2 CAM MAKE MORE POWER THAN A TRUCK NORRIS CAM FROM BRIAN TOOLEY RACING? HOW MUCH POWER DOES THE NEW BTR HOT ROD CAM MAKE COMPARED TO THE TRUCK NORRIS AND SLOPPY STAGE 2? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I COMPARED THE STOCK 5.3L L33 CAM TO THE TRUCK NORRIS, SLOPPY STAGE 2 AND THE NEW HOT ROD CAM FROM BRIAN TOOLEY RACING. PICK THE POWER CURVE YOU WANT!
That is the smoothest cam install I have ever seen, even sped up, Richard is the Lock Picking Lawyer of camshaft installation.
I doubt many guys around do as many cam swaps as Richard. He does a great job of taking the hassle out of cam selection for us that’s fo sho.
Interesting! BTR has obviously done their homework optimizing the Hot Rod cam. The SS2 never had enough exhaust duration, in my opinion, because of the relatively small exhaust valve in many LS heads. I guess this supports that feeling a bit. Good job BTR, and Richard thanks for showing us!
Man if I even stepped foot in Richard's shop my head would probably explode from seeing all the awesome LS stuff. 👍
he doesn't have a shop
@@richardholdener1727 some say he inhabits a vast man-cave called Westech
@@richardholdener1727 Yet..........
@@richardholdener1727 he is the shop
4:23 Thank you for removing the stock cam graph so it's less confusing. Man... Cleared it right up! 😂🤣
Truck Norris vs summit racings big truck torkinator vs Texas speeds chopacabra? It seems like everyone is coming out with their own version of the truck Norris now
That's what I wanna see
I'm still waiting for him to test the Tick Performance towmax cam's.
If I had to guess, the HotRod makes more top end power than the SS2 thanks to a combination of wider LSA, more lift, and a “better” lobe design that opens the valve quicker.
The bigger SS2 cam may make similar power at lower rpm because of the narrower LSA and the less aggressive lobe ramps may make it act like a smaller cam in comparison to some degree. It may have more duration at 0.050”, but may have less duration at 0.200” and beyond.
I’m by no means an expert. This is just a hypothesis.
I still think Truck Norris for the win unless you are building an absolute high rpm only setup........maybe a manual trans road racing deal? The TN doesn't seem to fall off too much at the absolute top but still adds a ton down low. I have no doubts about running the TN in my 6.0s in my 2500 truck and 2500 suburban. A cam swap and tune is on the shortlist for sure.
Ahhh, I love hearing engines roar again on Richard's videos. It seems like it's been a long dry spell.
My guess for the secret sauce in the new Hot Rod cam is narrower lobe displacement angle and longer exhaust duration than the SS2.
Richard, it's sometimes hard to follow your graphs. You do a great job, no complaints on that. But it would be nice to see the actual numbers on the cams at the end. All on the same page, like this:
A=450hp/460ft/lbs
B=435hp/475ft/lbs
etc., etc. Anyway, great work.
GRAPHS ARE BETTER THAN RAW NUMBERS
Next up from BTR, dyno numbers at 2k for us jeep guys. Having power from 2k-6k to be able to avoid shifting while climbing would be nice.
Only way your getting power down at 2000 is a bigger motor buddy and short gears
Thanks Rich!! Great info for dialing in that perfect combo!!
The Norris can has that mild lobe profile and that tight LSA perfect for low end torque I haven't seen the rest of it but I'm a fan of that cam I hope to see something even better
With the price difference between the ss2 and the hot rod cam it seems like a tough sell it doesn't pick up anything down low and you would need bigger springs than you can get away with on the ss2 and I have heard that more lift is hard on the valve train components
more lift is not necessarily harder on valve train-improper lobe design is
Can you please do a Texas speed torquer series camshaft comparison? 4 cams to compare. Would be good content! BTW I love your content. Keep up the good work sir
I got the BTR Stage 2 V2 Truck Cam, when I started catching wind of the Truck Norris cam about 4 months later I wished I had waited..lol
Lsa has something to do with the hot rod cam making power on the top end
Just installed a Truck Norris in my 6.2 sierra. Pretty happy with the results. Deleted the vvt. I lost some power down low, cruising around 45-55mph with torque converter locked. Could be from my amateur tune…. Also down from 14.8 mpg to 13.5 could be from a heavy foot though..
Most likely a mixture of all things combined, a dyno tune from a good tuner will help alot
Is it choppier in the 6.2? Debating on putting it in a 6.0 or getting the hot rod cam
@@HandMadeWrath it sounds pretty damn good. Has a nice chop and aggressive idle. I have my tune dialed in a lot better. I think my issue now is injection timing. Not a lot of info available online.. I wish BTR would give a complete cam card. Would help a lot with dialing in the tune…
@@HandMadeWrath - if you are not worried about losing Low end power, go with the hot rod cam! I drive my truck to work a few days a week, I didn’t want to lose too much drivability and gas mileage.
Richard how about a few seconds of the engine idling
Good work Richard
The hot rod is doing good at the top but im surprised it doesn't do better down low
it was designed for a 6.2L
I love getting kei trucks ads for 666cc engined trucks while watching v8s
I'd love to see a comparison between the Hot Rod and the Sloppy Best cam! Awesome content man!
love these tests, i'd love to hear some idle clips of these cams because well, i buy cams for the chop lol
The SS2 cam is much cheaper than the BTR Hotrod cam. Besides the 5-10hp on top, are there other advantages to the shorter duration cam? Manifold vacuum? fuel mileage? I was hoping to see an improvement in hp and torque over the outdated SS2.
On a dyno, you only see WOT. The smaller cam will idle better, provide better low speed torque production at all throttle imput, and wear your valvetrain less.
You need to mess with the shift settings, a good trans tune will pep that bad boy up
I'd like to see that hot rod cam with some work done on the cylinder heads and a little better intake manifold/throttle body. I bet 500 would be an easily achievable number with that camshaft.
That hotrod cam is definitely an interesting cam way less intake duration but more power than the ss2. Should be a much more fuel effecient cam and be a way more driveable cam compared too the sloppy stage 2, it's almost like a truck Norris stage 2 or stage 3/4 truck cam replacement
It has a great idle, not too much chop but raw.
We need tests on compression and the truck norris camshaft no one ever talks about that will 10.5 to 1 help Amp hp on a 5.3 or does it hurt the torque? I don't know sounds like an easy 50k clicks to me
compression adds power to any cam at a rate of 3-4% per 1 full point-there would be nothing different about that with a Truck Norris cam
Would love to see you do a tech/dyno video comparing the stock valve train against the BTR shaft mount rockers with hydraulic lifters and BTR shaft rocker with solid lifters all on a popular cam.
solid lifters?
@@richardholdener1727 The guys there at Westech compared hydraulic lifters and solid lifters on the same hydraulic cam. Curious to see what kind of gains can be made on the LS platform from just improving the valvetrain alone.
I can only deduce that the increased lift made up for the smaller duration
Also, looking closer, the Hot Rod cam has overlap like a "true" 109.5 LSA. The Truck Norris cam is about a "true" 107 LSA.
I didn’t wanna pay truck Norris cam prices so I got the closest cam in specs TSP had 😂
Let’s see a cam video with Howard rattler camshafts!!
lot of comments on how dated the ss2 is , getting on there for sure , but it's not a fashion statement , just goes to show that good engineering back then still good engineering today . is there a hate out there for the budget cam that is a lot better than it should be ? tech and design should always get better with time , but im guessing the old sloppy stage 2 is gunna have a better /longer valve spring life , the truck norris even more so . how about finding the biggest full lift and duration cam that you can get into that 5.3 under the existing rockers and compare . or maybe you have already richard ?
Right on
Wish we could see more on the sloppy best and less on the SS2 as it’s now considered a dated grind.
THE BEST VIDEO IS UP-WE KNOW WHAT IT DOES
We know what the deuce does too, but it’s still super popular on your channel- do you prefer the 2 over the Best?
@@kevinwest3689 wtf?? I love Richards videos.. take a seat. My original comment was based purely on popularity, not my build.
dated, when did Elgin first grind that cam?
I really wanna see the BTR road race & drift cam that is 'easy on the valve train' on the L33, pretty please?
BTR's camz've gotta be blood magick or somethin', dude.
I wonder what took GM so long to design the 15 degree head engine? They've known for years that a 15 degree valve angle makes more power.
Money. Old SBC design was bought and paid for
Very interested... on how these cams do in a 6 liter 😪
roughly same power difference-just start and end at higher power levels
@@richardholdener1727 do you think the 78mm tb would hold back the actual gains in a 6.0 though?. Maybe not until above 5000rpm?
But how do they all compare to the sloppy Holdener best cam?
All the cam shit is confusing. The hot rod specs you showed on the box says different intake lift than their website. Also the V2 stuff shares the same exact cam. The specs you show for hot rod are the same as BTR stage 1 for NA same as BTR PDS stage 1 v2, same as the BTR centrifugal stage 1 v2. I thought all those different applications had different specs. Maybe they were different when it was V1 (1st version)
they apply the same cam to many applications because it works on many applications
@@richardholdener1727 yeah I understand that, especially after seeing so many of your videos. My hangup is, I could swear in the past, I had read that positive displacement, supercharger cams sacrifice a little bit of the very abundant low and torque, and shift it up towards the higher part of the rev range . And then a centrifugal would be the opposite. They somewhat lack as much bottom and torque, so the cams are spec'd as to add low end torque while sacrificing a little at the top. I guess maybe things have just changed because it's kind of a solved thing or I just totally made all of that up in my head. Thank you for all your hard work.
A lot of LS guys are running GPI cams, why don't you ever use their cams for your comparison videos?
WHO ARE THESE "LOTS" OF GUYS? THEIR STUFF WORKS WELL
lol well maybe because ( those gpi) guys ant give my buddy a cut $ lol
Be nice to have idle vacuum comparison.
Vert valid request
Thank The Lord for answering my question love you richard
Hello,
Does BTR 5.3 HOT ROD CAMSHAFT fit yukon 5.3 2008?
I am add long tube headers and Y-PIPE and full exhaust system 3 inch
Cold air intake
DOD DELETED
Yukon 5.3 2008 has 4L60E transmission should I upgrade the converter to FTI STREET BRAWLER 3200 STALL SPEED
Thanks a lot
Thanks,
yes it fits
Hey rich you need to do a review on those 80$ eBay cams 😅😂
ebay is not a brand..... as i have heard. haha
Richard can you do a comparison with the cammotion little chopper cam? 222/232 -598/587 on 108lsa
Richard, how about a comparison of the BTR Hot Rod cam vs the BTR 230 or 225 VVT cam? I’m kind of in the boat with BTR in thinking that the vvt provides a great way to spread out the power band of a motor.
I don't have VVT
@@richardholdener1727 you don’t have a Gen V to do the testing on?
Awesome video, as always! Richard, i am shopping for a cam for my L33 swapped 65 C10 street truck and am considering truck norris or Summit big torkinator. Have you done any testing on the torkinator cam yet? Thanks!!
not yet
I wish you would dyno test gpi cams, try a new company lol.
I have a L59 5.3 and want to make about 400 to 450 whp, these videos are super helpful 👍🇺🇲
use boost
@@richardholdener1727 I'm middle aged and my elderly father said "ah f,ck it, life is short just spray it with nitrous" But I'd like to do it all NA first and then think about spray or boost. I just need to figure out the right combination of cam, intake, converter with 4.30 gears. And of course valve springs, rockers or just new heads.
@@DM-qp7do 450 whp is a stretch, but not hard to do at the crank....?
@@trailerparkcryptoking5213 yah he would need a rec port stroker for 450whp NA.
@@DM-qp7do
If it were me
I would look for a 2007 5.3 with 243 or 799 heads and start from there
It should have flat pistons, better rods , great performance heads
Then think about the camshaft
DD or weekend cruiser ?
High lift .585/.600 more hp but less valve train life
.551 lift great for DD and long valve train life
The 05 5.3 should have beefier piston rods and you could get flat pistons and the 243 heads and it would work awesome for boost too
…I wonder what that lobe design looks like. Richard could you compare them for us?
how
@@richardholdener1727 maybe some detail pictures and caliper measurements. Maybe
11 horsepower is more but l bet it's not really nothing your going to feel in the seat of your pants if it was 25-30 then yes and your only getting the 11 way up top of the powerband
Should put the best cam in the mix
THAT VID IS UP
Test don't guess! Cheers!
Hey Richard, Great video and seeing your video I instantly ordered the BTR Hot rod cam package with the headers, Y Pipe and catback, Melling performance oil pump, Water pump, DOD delete, so my engine is LC9 5.3L. I wanna know if i add a bigger intake manifold with 102 or 95mm Throttle body what will be your recommendation what will be my gains ? Thanks :)
bigger intake?
@@richardholdener1727 bigger like fast lsxr or holey intake manifold with higher cfm and bigger intake if you can suggest me what to buy and what gains shall I expect
@@richardholdener1727 hello, I got my BTR hot rod camkit going to install it on the Denali GenIV LS 6.2 engine but now I also want to add supercharger on it shall I opt for Magnuson tvs2650 or the simple LSa supercharger kit ?
Mmm I might just have to pull my btr stage 2 truck cam out of my 6.0
Thinking the same, have same setup. Going turbo later. Norris cam looks nice
just purchased the truck norris cam .050 212 22x .553 .553 putting in a 5.3 lm7 do i need a stall for my 350 automatic and will this cam provide the nasty sound i am looking for. Thank you
it will have some chop and a 2500-2800 will help
@@richardholdener1727 some chop? i want a lot of chop! lol what cam will give me this and can use the rest of kit minus the cam with the chop sounding cam i want?
Can you show the timing table you use on the stock lm7? I've heard you say 29 degrees before
29 WAS THE PEAK TIMING AT THE HP PEAK-I ONLY TUNE THE TOP THREE ROWS (wot)
Hi Richard, can I use the Hot Rod Cam in a stock bottom end L59? If I recall correctly I think I heard you say in other videos that anything over .600 lift would cause the valves to hit the pistons
I have never said that-lift has almost nothing to do with piston-to-valve clearance
Do people run these truck cams in street cars?
yes-truck cam doesn't mean anything
Hi Richard, never "built up" in the past and I'm thinking about the TN cam for my 2005 Yukon. It's not just a daily driver, but one we'll use for trips pulling our trailer with motorcycles (about 3500 Lbs). How would the TN work without headers? Would MPG suffer much?
maybe a torque cam if MPG is the concern
This is not new. The last prefer high lift short duration. There’s been a few companies that make only high lift cams. .550 lift is a small cam for an ls in my eyes but you look at duration, being a dummy I studied the dyno sections first before reading the tech stuff. On performance trucks the trend was high lift short duration if you wanted to make power.
LOTS MORE TO IT THAN THAT
Richard what needs to be done when I instal the BTR truck Norris cam
Do I really need a tune for a 01 5.3l ?
Hp tuner or what is best in your opinion.?
yes a tune will be required
what would be the converter stall range you would recommend for the SS2 and for the Hot Rod cam?
2800
@@richardholdener1727 He replies😌 Huge fan of the content. I appreciate it and keep doin what your doin. WOMMMPP
Richard ,what is a lopey sounding cam ,with out a big lift ,what is a L's 5.3 camshaft …thanks
please be more specific
Richard. The whole idea of a cam is the idle. We want to hear what they sound like at idle. Power is nice too, but what does the idle sound like?
the whole idea of a cam is NOT idle-it's power-but if you wanted idle-that was in the dyno run clip
@@richardholdener1727 oh yeah, I guess it is about power. I just love a choppy hot rod idle.
I've asked this before and did a little research and still don't get a clear answer. When you say inch and 3/4 headers are you talking OD or id?
od
@@richardholdener1727 ok. So in reality it's a 1 5/8" size pipe inside(assuming .60 ish wall).I was searching a video for some header building tips. And found an old hot rod video explaining a formula for peak torque rpm depending on primary size(by area) so if you go by the mfg size of 1 3/4 they you will be off in calculations. Thier example of a 350 was somewhere in the area of a 400rpm increase in peak torque rpm with a 1 3/4 over a 1 5/8(actual ID) I would love to see you do some testing on their mathematical equations too!!
Do you expect to see in the near future a cam that will produce Truck Norris torque down low with higher than Truck Norris horsepower up high? I'm building an LQ4 if that impacts the response.
A vvt cam could do it. Easily.
@@trdscfjc lq4 isn't a vvt motor though
The only way was already mentioned. Vvt... my question is vvt viable with the truck Norris.
It doesn't matter an lq4 "isn't vvt", it can be added.
vvt adjustability is limited with larger cam profiles
Hey Richard what valve springs are you installing on the 5.3 LM33 aluminum motor with camshaft over 600? I'm really thinking about trying to find a good donor for a foxbody with a SS2 camshaft lm33 with the tko600/373 thats currently in my 1991 fox coupe. Also you using stock retainers and rockers are trunion upgrade?
stock rockers so far, btr beehive springs, SS2 cam is only 585 lift
@@richardholdener1727 the LM33/SS2 motor be good for a tko600 manual trans foxbody cruiser? Not wanting a race setup. May even throw AC on it.
Richard what do you use to remove and reinstall the damper and valve springs?
we have a damper removal tool and a spring removal tool
@@richardholdener1727 Do you prefer a specific brand for both or will any suffice? That installer looked neat as well
Howard's has a 218/615? stick for a while any try it?
HAVE NOT
Can you use stock valve springs with the Truck Norris ??
yes with the nsr TN grind
@@richardholdener1727
That's awesome,
Thanks for the reply 👍
I have a 03 Tahoe with a 5.3, I want more bottom end for hills and towing. I don’t like pulling hills at 6k and would like more bottom to middle power. What cam do you recommend? Or do they make a bigger ratio rocker to give more lift without sacrificing duration?
Honestly there are only two ways to gain low RPM torque with your combo:
1. Remove the heads, mill them for higher compression, shorter pushrods etc. High compression ratio will help the low end a lot, but high octane fuel and a tune is needed.
2. Speed engineering long tube headers (any work but these are low cost and awesome stainless). The scavenging effect of long tube headers helps big time when towing and low RPM. They help all across the RPM range but I really notice the gains when towing or up hills at low RPM. Plus no tune needed. Then use moderate sized exhaust after the headers to give you some back pressure. Back pressure isn’t needed for Max HP however it will help part throttle response and fuel mileage when properly sized.
For my stock 5.3 in a lifted Yukon with 35s I run 1-3/4” speed engineering headers with true dual 2.25 no x pipes. Sounds great, magnaflow mufflers. It’s a lifted truck so I prefer the low end gain from headers vs a cam. Then I scored a 6.0 LQ4 for less than a cam would cost so I’m swapping that in once I do gaskets. Adding cubic inches is the third way to gain low RPM torque, I’m just using the computer from the 6.0 truck so no need fir a tune really.
On my 2012 crew cab with 6.0 I run the same 1-3/4 headers, Remflex gaskets never leak, dual 2.5” with magnaflow and it’s also great. I did a tune on this one which also helped. A cam just isn’t worth the $ compared to exhaust for my lifted trucks that spend very little time over 5000 RPM. This one Tow’s awesome now it can haul my car on a trailer in 6th gear on flats without lugging. Before the headers and tune it was a dog.
Also on my Yukon switching to 4.10 gears helped a lot! The 3.73 gears made the truck a dog.
m.th-cam.com/users/shortscDPNBPKVql8
@@TwinTurboSkylark I heard the stock exhaust manifolds flow pretty good and long tube headers are only a few hp increase and that’s up top. I can’t imagine having 35s with stock gears and towing a car trailer. But then again I live in Northern California by Tahoe and Yosemite where we really have hills and 10,000 foot passes. Some states like Texas consider a over pass a hill.
Your truck is also newer with the l33 that makes like 50 more hp too. I also think that a Tahoe weighs a 1000 more pounds than a truck.
you could spend that money to only gain power in the higher rpms. or go ahead and plan for boost. the right size turbo on a stock engine with injectors makes a world of difference for towing. keeps the rpms low and almost no need for downshifting at all unless you have tall tires and high gears.
I've done several cam swaps and engine builds. nothing beats boost.
@@nocturnalspecialties642 I agree 100%. It’s just the price is out of my reach
So you ran out of golf tees and sacrificed a screwdriver? 😂
I saw that but it's not real sacrificed once it's off the dyno he gets it back
it wasn't even my screwdriver! #winning
What about turbo with the hot rod cam?
IT WORKS FINE WITH BOOST
Will chopacabra be ok for light boost
How does the ss2 do out past 6500? I’ve got a 4.8 ss2 with a vs78-75 I’m hoping to spin 72-7500rpms.
2600lb mustang street car.
Should peak power at 7500rpms with a ss2 with the right intake manifold
SS2 is too big for a 4.8 if you want good response on the street.
7500 rpm power peak with a ss2 (even with a short runner intake)?
Agreed, go smaller on the cam and shoot for a 6500-7000 peak and gain reliability vs 7500+
Right on appreciate the input, and the videos!
What was you timing at WOT
29 at hp peak
OMG, you didn't use a front cover alignment tool when putting it back on. It will destroy humanity! Oh the horror!!!!
we aligned it with the damper (I mean alignment tool)
@@richardholdener1727 The seal knows! Like cast pistons shatter when you unbox the turbo!
Do have any whp videos with a 5.3
DO YOU ONLY SPEAK WHP?
@@richardholdener1727 so is that a yes or no ❓❓❓❓Is there any videos available with dyno whp ❓❓❓
WHAT COMPARISON DO YOU WANT
Are all these cams stock converter friendly?
Even stock cams aren’t “stock converter friendly” lol
only the Truck Norris and only on a 5.3l and above
👍💪
And the best cam fell of the face of the earth?
THAT VID IS UP
Personally I blame squirrels
🐿🐿🐿🐿🐿🐿
Thats alot of squirrel