How is any of this confusing? There were just many different types of Greeks, kinda like how you have the French, the Italians, the Romanians, the Portuguese, the Spanish as Latin peoples; or better yet, it's literally like saying "New Yorker Americans, Austinian Americans, Columbian Americans, Miamian Americans, you would have thought the Americans would have made up their minds by now!" And yes, Cleopatra was Greek? So was Santa Claus (St. Nicholas)? Also who tf said the Minoans, the Etruscans and the Phoneticians were Greeks? Well, last time I checked it wasn't us We also never claimed that all other ancient peoples are extinct??? Persians are still here, so are Egyptians. Romans may be gone, but their ancestors are still here Also, it's important to know that the modern ethnic identity didn't come about until the French revolution, and pretending that we believe that all Greeks were somehow "one" is really ignorant of literally the whole of history, which is why you see Koinon Macedon and not Koinon Hellene. We can say it's Greek because Demotic Greek and Koine have a lot of similarities! Looks like someone didn't take their linguistic lessons Also to claim that just because modern Greek was codified in the 1980s means it has no connection to any ancient language is pure insanity. With minimal effort, the average Greek can translate texts from Koine Greek with relatively little difficulty If Modern Greek has no connection to any Ancient language, then Shakespear didn't speak English Then you bring up the "three names" which are actually two because Ellada and Hellas are the same thing but oh well Greece came about from the Romans, who after encountering the tribe Graeci decided to give that name to the whole of Greece. The Romans tend to do that with a lot of tribes, you know Italy comes from the tribe of Vitali, Germany from the Germani, Britain from the Britanni etc etc As for why the name Hellas isn't found in Ancient Greece, it's because there was no unifying Greek identity because ethnic identities didn't come about until the French revolution, is that hard to understand? It's like claiming that because the ancient Persian Empires didn't have the word Persia inscribed anywhere, then they must not be Persian And lastly, the Macedonians spoke Greek, and were even allowed to partake in the Olympic games, making them Greek by the standards of the time If they were not Greek, then the Athenians, the Spartans, the Corinithians and the other Greek city state would have called them barbarian It all ties to the ethnic identity that didn't exist at the time, when you understand that little nuance of history, your whole argument falls flat
Once again, you're repeating what politicians have told you, not what history or factual research supports. You can’t point to a historical text or source to back your claims, but political rhetoric is something you seem to rely on heavily. Let me clarify: Hellenism never represented a nation or nationality. It was a cultural and religious system tied to ancient Greek practices, not a national identity. If I were to create a country today and name it "Pyramid," that wouldn't suddenly connect it to the entire history of ancient pyramids-it’s absurd to make such a connection. Your argument works the same way and is equally flawed. For example, Hellenism was actively suppressed by Emperor Theodosius I in the late 4th century through the Theodosian Decrees (391-392 CE). These decrees banned pagan practices, closed pagan temples, and established Christianity as the Roman Empire’s official religion. Hellenistic practices, viewed as tied to polytheism, were deemed dangerous and eliminated as a result. This marked the end of Hellenism as a dominant cultural force for centuries. So, when you try to link modern "Greek" identity directly to ancient Hellenism without recognizing these historical breaks, your point becomes speculative and unsupported. The so-called "Hellenic" identity as we know it today was revived much later as part of modern nationalist movements, not as a continuous cultural or national identity.
@@EuropeHistoryy Who tf said otherwise?? That was exactly what I am arguing about, modern Greek identity came about as a result of the French revolution, the word Greek beforehand simply meant pagan I may be biased or whatever, because I strongly dislike Ancient Greece and much strongly prefer the Eastern Roman Empire, but still, the Ancient Greeks did have an identity of their own, it was just vastly different from what we typically consider a "national identity" today Now, what sort of "political propaganda" am I spreading when I say that the Ancient Greeks and the Modern Greeks have connections via language? You seem to have missed that, saying that the modern Greek language has nothing in common with Ancient Greek, which is simply not true Despite that, us modern Greeks are Roman more than anything, and I am proud of that personally. The Byzantines (ERE) and modern Greece share a lot more in common, mainly language, tradition, history and religion, so it is understandable to draw connections between these two identities However, with Ancient Greece the connection is much more indirect, but that doesn't mean it's not valid. Ancient Greece existed before the lifetime of Christ, so it is understandable to see why the religions are vastly different Ancient Greece is more or less a primitive form of what Greece would ultimately become as the language and shared history (ie in the same geographical area) are still there Saying that Ancient Greece and Modern Greece have absolutely nothing to do with each other is simply wrong, but the connection is a lot more indirect than it was with the Eastern Romans, simply due to the historical time frame. We are talking about millennia here
@justagreekhistoria As a Macedonian, I must respectfully disagree with some of your conclusions, and I feel the need to clarify the distinct identity of the Macedonian people throughout history. Unlike the claims that try to homogenize the identities of the ancient Hellenes and the Macedonians, there is abundant historical evidence proving that Macedonians were always distinct, both culturally and politically, from the Hellenes. 1. Distinct Identity of Macedonians From ancient sources, it is evident that the Macedonians were not considered Hellenes by the Greeks themselves: Herodotus: While some claim that Herodotus referred to the Macedonian kings as Hellenes due to their supposed descent from Argos, this was a political fabrication meant to establish legitimacy. The general Macedonian population was never referred to as Greek. Thucydides: He clearly separates the Macedonians from the Hellenes in his historical accounts, often grouping them with other non-Greek peoples. Demosthenes: The famous Athenian statesman referred to Philip II of Macedon as a "barbarian," a term reserved for non-Greeks. He outright rejected any notion that Macedonians were part of the Hellenic world. 2. Macedonians in Every Century The Macedonian identity persisted through history, regardless of political changes: Hellenistic Period: Even under Alexander the Great, the Macedonians maintained their own identity, with their distinct customs, political systems, and dialect. Roman Period: Macedonia was a Roman province, and its people were never referred to as Greeks but as Macedonians. Byzantine Period: The Byzantines identified the Macedonian region distinctly, with references to the Macedonian theme (administrative unit) and the Macedonian dynasty. Ottoman Period: Under Ottoman rule, the people of Macedonia were distinct in their traditions, language, and culture. Macedonian Slavs were documented as a separate group by travelers and scholars. 19th-20th Century: Macedonians fought for their identity during the Ilinden Uprising and later under the oppression of neighboring nations. Numerous ethnographic maps and studies, including those by foreign observers, clearly labeled the population as Macedonian, not Greek. 3. Modern Denial of Macedonian Identity It is puzzling why some people go to great lengths to deny the existence of a distinct Macedonian nation, despite overwhelming evidence: If Macedonians were always Hellenes, why is there no historical record referring to them as Greeks? Why do even ancient Greek sources clearly differentiate between Macedonians and Hellenes? Why does the modern narrative try to erase a nation's history, culture, and language when evidence exists for every era of Macedonian existence? 4. Regarding Language The argument about language as proof of identity is shaky at best. Language evolves, and shared linguistic elements don’t erase cultural and national distinctions: Slavic languages in Macedonia developed as a result of historical migrations, but the cultural identity of the Macedonians remained tied to their land and heritage. 5. To Address the Comment Directly You acknowledge that modern Greek identity formed much later, particularly during the 19th century, as a result of the French Revolution and the revival of classical ideals. This itself is evidence that the connection between modern Greeks and ancient Hellenes is more cultural and linguistic than political or national. However: No historical source supports the claim that Macedonians were Hellenes. Macedonians existed as a distinct people throughout history, with a continuous identity, regardless of political borders or linguistic shifts. If you know of any ancient or medieval record that refers to Macedonians as Greeks, we’d love to see it-because so far, the evidence only points to their separate identity. In Conclusion Denying the identity of an entire nation with well-documented history, culture, and tradition is not only illogical but also deeply disrespectful. Macedonians have existed as a distinct people through every century, and no amount of revisionism can change that. Let’s celebrate the unique identities of all peoples, rather than attempting to erase or merge them into convenient narratives.
@@EuropeHistoryy Okay so firstly Isocrates (To Philip, 5.106): "You, a descendant of Heracles, are destined by birth to undertake the leadership of the Hellenes." While this doesn't explicitly refer to all Macedonians as Hellenes, it frames Philip (and by extension Macedonia) as a significant Hellenic power Meanwhile, Thucydides (History of the Peloponnesian War, 2.99): "Archelaus not only strengthened the kingdom internally but also built roads and organized festivals in the manner of the Hellenes." Once again, this doesn't explicitly call the Macedonians Greeks, but it does show a shared culture between the Hellenes and the Macedonians In general however, no matter how you slice it Ancient Macedonians were Greek. Sure, modern (North) Macedonians are Slavs and have their own identity separate from the Greek one, this doesn't mean that the Ancient Kingdom of Macedon is North Macedonian - and by extension Slavic As for your timeline for Macedonia, it doesn't really bring a lot to the table; the Romans called the people there Macedonians because that's what they were - Macedonians. By that time, Macedonia was just a Roman province with a strong Pagan (Greek) identity, similarly to most of the Eastern Mediterranean. Once again, during the "Byzantine" period (it's still just the Roman Empire but okay) you claim that the Macedonians were distinct, but all I see here is just administration differences. Themes existed in Asia Minor too, does that make them non Roman? (Important to note: by this time the word Greek has faded out and has been replaced by the much more prestigious Roman one) As for the Macedonian dynasty, that's probably came about as a result of the dynasty's home province, Macedonia. Doesn't mean they were Slavic and doesn't mean they were (North) Macedonian as you say they are. Then under the Ottoman rule, I can agree, the Macedonian Slavs were indeed separate, though they did have very close ties to the Bulgarian identity, at times being synonymous with them. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a large Roman (now slowly going back to being Greek) presence in the region. Macedonia (the whole province) was generally very much ethnically mixed and with no concept of a nation state people could identity with either their home towns, villages, regions, provinces, empires etc etc Though I can understand where you are coming from, your argument in my opinion is fundamentally flawed. You claim that modern Greeks have nothing to do with Ancient Greece but you somehow miraculously trace back the North Macedonian lineage all the way back to Alexander the Great. Generally, if you ask any historian, they'll tell you this simple reality; the Ancient Macedonians were Greek and saying otherwise is pretty much trying to argue for a conspiracy theory, which I cannot work with
Coming soon: a video exploring the differences between Spartans and Athenians. Speaking the same language doesn’t make them the same nation-just like Australians and Americans! :D
@@EuropeHistoryy Stop trying to compare the modern notion of nationality with city states that existed over two millennia ago The Spartans and the Athenians didn't speak the exact same language sure, but they were dialects of each other which means they are linguistically very close The way we can know which city states and kingdoms were seen as Greek and which weren't is by looking at the Olympic Games Back then, the Olympic Games were only restricted to one type of people - Greeks - and any other ""ethnic"" group would be seen as barbaric (not the modern notion - barbaric here means non Greek) I mean, if they were completely different peoples, what would be the difference between a Macedonian (who was allowed to partake in the Olympic Games) and a Thracian (who wasn't allowed to do so)?
@EuropeHistoryy That's like saying Kurds in Turkey and Kurds in Iraq aren't the same people??? Athenians simply spoke a different dialect from Spartans, hence known as doric and koine???
@@justagreekhistorianAh, yes, the 'Macedonians played in the Olympics' argument! Let's not forget-only three Macedonians are recorded as participating in the ancient Olympics, out of a kingdom that lasted centuries. That’s like saying a country is obsessed with soccer because they sent three players to the World Cup over hundreds of years. Maybe they were just visiting for the snacks! Why other Macedonians didnt played?
@@jovanvladetic8772That’s like saying all Slavic nations are Macedonians just because their language was based on Old Church Slavonic. By that logic, every country using the Latin alphabet must be ancient Romans too! Nice try, but no.
Who ever claims everything is Greek and all we have just been informed within, is mistaken by ignorance. We do know, identify, determine (as far as science allows) by scripts and or monumental crafts: a) the connections and civilization characteristics between nations, tribes (call it what ever you like) of ancient eras, b) the cultural contribution of ancient Greeks, Sumerians etc c) The name Έλληνες is referred in Iliad but for a specific tribe d) Γραικός (Graikos - Greek) : Greeks used to be called Graikoi. In ancient Greek mythology, Graikos was the son of Pandora and God Zeus. By philologist, glossologist G.Babiniotis, the word Γραικός is of unknown etymology and there is a sense that it can mean: old, old, ancient. Aristotle in his Parian Chronicle, Apollodorus, mention that Έλληνες were previously called Greeks, «πρώτον μεν Γραικοί νυν δε Έλληνες». So, the provided information for making this is faulty, due to historical and academic evidence. Best regards.
@Manolischannel I check the real survived documents like Persian, Chinese, Indian, Babylonian and Egyptian, and no one of them mentioned greece, hellas or ellas :D soon is coming video. Alexander never spred the Athenians psgan practices
The Romans used the term Graecia to refer to the geographic area inhabited by the people they identified as pagans. However, this was a Roman construct, not a term used by the Greeks themselves, who called their land Hellas and referred to themselves as Hellenes. The Romans adopted the term from their encounter with the Graeci, a small tribe in Epirus, and generalized it to describe all Helenic-speaking peoples. For the Romans, Graecia became a convenient term to categorize a cultural region that was influential in language, philosophy, and art, but politically fractured. For instance, Roman authors such as Cicero, Livy, and Pliny the Elder used the term to describe the cultural achievements of the Greeks, often admiring their contributions to philosophy, literature, and governance. However, they were clear about the fragmented nature of Greek society. Cicero, for example, frequently praised Greek culture while criticizing the lack of political unity among the city-states. This usage of "Graecia" highlights that the Romans viewed the Greeks more as a cultural phenomenon rather than a unified political or ethnic group. Books like "The Geography" by Strabo or "The Natural History" by Pliny the Elder provide examples of Roman perspectives on "Graecia," treating it as a region marked by shared language and traditions but diverse political systems. In short, the Romans used "Graecia" for practical administrative and cultural categorization, not as a recognition of a unified Greek identity, which even the Greeks themselves did not fully claim at the time.
@@michaeltsigaridakes9856The term Hellas and its association with the Hellenes underwent significant changes over time, particularly during the Byzantine and Ottoman periods. In antiquity, Hellas referred to the geographic region inhabited by the Hellenes and carried cultural and religious significance tied to their pagan traditions. However, with the rise of Christianity in the Byzantine Empire, the term "Hellene" took on a new, negative connotation, being associated with paganism and polytheism. As Christianity became the dominant religion, "Hellene" was effectively banned as a term of identity to discourage any association with the pagan past. Byzantine emperors and church authorities actively suppressed the use of "Hellene" as an ethnic or cultural identifier. Instead, people in the Byzantine Empire were referred to as Romans (Rhomaioi), emphasizing their political and religious affiliation with the Christian Roman Empire. Even the territories of ancient city-states were referred to as parts of the Byzantine Empire, with no reference to a "Hellenic" identity. It wasn’t until the 19th century, during the Greek War of Independence, that the term "Hellenes" was revived as part of a nationalist project inspired by Western European ideals. The revival was heavily influenced by Philhellenism, a romanticized view of ancient Greece promoted by European intellectuals. The modern Greek state adopted "Hellenes" as a national identity, reconnecting with the classical past while distancing itself from the Byzantine and Ottoman traditions of "Roman" identity.
@@michaelsayn1962give the sourse. Do not tell lies. The Athenians during the peloponessian wave killed more Greeks. That does not mean that the Athenians are not Greek. Go to your doctor, you needed 😂
@KonTheo78 ah reh Kosta, you are a grecomani just like the rest of the modern Greek population. If you are not Albanian/Avranites you are a Christian Turk. Modern Greeks have been sold a fairytale go and speakmto your psychiatrist.
So funny and so true. Also, about the name Greece, even today, that name doesn’t exist. I don’t know why everybody and “ Greeks”themselves call their country Greece. The official name of the country is Hellenic Republic( Eliniki Demokratia in greek) but for some reason nobody call them by their name. Hmmm, because even that one is probably fraudulent? Who knows, but seems like their history is very confusing for one simple reason. Because it”s all fake.
No absurdity here , what you probably mean is foreigner jealousy of Hellenic legacy ! Yes, almost everything (of value) began with Ancient Greece because the Greeks were the people who elevated mankind from the tribal and animal-like state which had preceded it. The good thing is that there is nothing you can do about it because it is a fact. The bad thing and the question you should be asking yourself is why this fact bothers you enough to want to disrespect a people's history and heritage. Jealous much?
Hmmm, do you know what name the Persians used to refer to you? In all Persian records, there’s no mention of Hellenic people. Do you know how the Chinese and Indian records identify you? There’s no evidence of Greek people there either. Maybe you’ve been misinformed and need to double-check! Hahaha!
@@EuropeHistoryy Hahaha you may me laugh, go to read Greeks in Arab until now is "alyunan" that comes from" Ίωνες" you do not know history and language history.
@KonTheo78 So, everyone knows you by a different name? That’s interesting-hahaha! But did you know Macedonians were always known as Macedonians? No name games there. Hahaha, you’ve got to be kidding me, dude, with this. You just find random names and slap a 'Greek' label on them-hahaha! Ionians were simply a tribe living in Anatolia, not a term representing Greeks. You really need to read the books to understand that. And do you even know what they called the so-called 'Hellenistic culture' that Alexander spread? Hahaha! Please, answer this and make my day. Just try if you can! Hahaha! MACEDONIAN!!!
Stop trying to create a false narrative and spread ridiculous propaganda. I’ve already explained this in the comments, and I’m not going to waste more time repeating myself on every comment you make. You’re just a kid trying to build something that doesn’t exist based on a single sentence. You’ve never even attempted to prove the existence of "Greek" or "Hellenic" people through the centuries after Alexander the Great. And now, just because you can understand Koine Greek, you think everything is yours? It doesn’t matter that no Babylonian, Persian, Indian, or Chinese record mentions Hellenic people. Not one single coin bears the name Hellas, Ellada, or Greece. No ancient map shows Hellas, Ellada, or Greece. But sure, you can understand Koine, so that means it’s all yours? Hahahaha, kid, you’re only embarrassing yourself!
One of many things you're grossly wrong about is the modern and pre-modern language (the latter mainly used for writing and that's why the already spoken 'dimotikoi' was adopted for writing in the 1970s) and its astonishing correlation to ancient Greek. Also, who discovered the heliocentric earth and mathematically proved it? The various Greeks you complain about are Greek tribes. Just thought I'd throw that in. Xeretai.
@Joe-b4f3h Just answer one simple question: Why do Persian records never mention Hellenic people? How is it that they had no knowledge of the so-called ancient Greeks?
Do you know other persian records? You know, the Persian wars were between Persia and ???? AMERICA? RUSSIA? I think that your level of education is very low. @EuropeHistoryy
@georgealevriadis897 Macedonian! Read the Bible, read the Quran and you can find all info. Also you can read all Byzantine and Ottoman historical records to prove further!
@@EuropeHistoryy It was probably discovered by a Greek. You didn't get what I was actually conveying. I see your overall arguments, but they're littered with (embarrassing) inaccuracies.
@allstarlord9110 Stop trying to create a false narrative and spread ridiculous propaganda. I’ve already explained this in the comments, and I’m not going to waste more time repeating myself on every comment you make. You’re just a kid trying to build something that doesn’t exist based on a single sentence. You’ve never even attempted to prove the existence of "Greek" or "Hellenic" people through the centuries after Alexander the Great. And now, just because you can understand Koine Greek, you think everything is yours? It doesn’t matter that no Babylonian, Persian, Indian, or Chinese record mentions Hellenic people. Not one single coin bears the name Hellas, Ellada, or Greece. No ancient map shows Hellas, Ellada, or Greece. But sure, you can understand Koine, so that means it’s all yours? Hahahaha, kid, you’re only embarrassing yourself!
This is ridiculously propaganda,yes they speak different dialects not languages,and spartan ,athenians and macedonians was greeks,it seems you separate also spartants and athenianns because was different cities,then why call all the german states as saxons and prussians as german ,no they was different nations too 😂😂😂 and according how old greeks are? As old are the pelasgians from which come from all greeks and most of mediterannean race thousands years before.anthropologists like aris poulianos has proven that ,but ofcource medias dont want show anything from him
THE GREEKS CLAIM THE SPARTANS 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
How is any of this confusing? There were just many different types of Greeks, kinda like how you have the French, the Italians, the Romanians, the Portuguese, the Spanish as Latin peoples; or better yet, it's literally like saying "New Yorker Americans, Austinian Americans, Columbian Americans, Miamian Americans, you would have thought the Americans would have made up their minds by now!"
And yes, Cleopatra was Greek? So was Santa Claus (St. Nicholas)? Also who tf said the Minoans, the Etruscans and the Phoneticians were Greeks? Well, last time I checked it wasn't us
We also never claimed that all other ancient peoples are extinct??? Persians are still here, so are Egyptians. Romans may be gone, but their ancestors are still here
Also, it's important to know that the modern ethnic identity didn't come about until the French revolution, and pretending that we believe that all Greeks were somehow "one" is really ignorant of literally the whole of history, which is why you see Koinon Macedon and not Koinon Hellene. We can say it's Greek because Demotic Greek and Koine have a lot of similarities! Looks like someone didn't take their linguistic lessons
Also to claim that just because modern Greek was codified in the 1980s means it has no connection to any ancient language is pure insanity. With minimal effort, the average Greek can translate texts from Koine Greek with relatively little difficulty
If Modern Greek has no connection to any Ancient language, then Shakespear didn't speak English
Then you bring up the "three names" which are actually two because Ellada and Hellas are the same thing but oh well
Greece came about from the Romans, who after encountering the tribe Graeci decided to give that name to the whole of Greece. The Romans tend to do that with a lot of tribes, you know Italy comes from the tribe of Vitali, Germany from the Germani, Britain from the Britanni etc etc
As for why the name Hellas isn't found in Ancient Greece, it's because there was no unifying Greek identity because ethnic identities didn't come about until the French revolution, is that hard to understand? It's like claiming that because the ancient Persian Empires didn't have the word Persia inscribed anywhere, then they must not be Persian
And lastly, the Macedonians spoke Greek, and were even allowed to partake in the Olympic games, making them Greek by the standards of the time
If they were not Greek, then the Athenians, the Spartans, the Corinithians and the other Greek city state would have called them barbarian
It all ties to the ethnic identity that didn't exist at the time, when you understand that little nuance of history, your whole argument falls flat
Once again, you're repeating what politicians have told you, not what history or factual research supports. You can’t point to a historical text or source to back your claims, but political rhetoric is something you seem to rely on heavily.
Let me clarify: Hellenism never represented a nation or nationality. It was a cultural and religious system tied to ancient Greek practices, not a national identity. If I were to create a country today and name it "Pyramid," that wouldn't suddenly connect it to the entire history of ancient pyramids-it’s absurd to make such a connection. Your argument works the same way and is equally flawed.
For example, Hellenism was actively suppressed by Emperor Theodosius I in the late 4th century through the Theodosian Decrees (391-392 CE). These decrees banned pagan practices, closed pagan temples, and established Christianity as the Roman Empire’s official religion. Hellenistic practices, viewed as tied to polytheism, were deemed dangerous and eliminated as a result. This marked the end of Hellenism as a dominant cultural force for centuries.
So, when you try to link modern "Greek" identity directly to ancient Hellenism without recognizing these historical breaks, your point becomes speculative and unsupported. The so-called "Hellenic" identity as we know it today was revived much later as part of modern nationalist movements, not as a continuous cultural or national identity.
@@EuropeHistoryy Who tf said otherwise?? That was exactly what I am arguing about, modern Greek identity came about as a result of the French revolution, the word Greek beforehand simply meant pagan
I may be biased or whatever, because I strongly dislike Ancient Greece and much strongly prefer the Eastern Roman Empire, but still, the Ancient Greeks did have an identity of their own, it was just vastly different from what we typically consider a "national identity" today
Now, what sort of "political propaganda" am I spreading when I say that the Ancient Greeks and the Modern Greeks have connections via language? You seem to have missed that, saying that the modern Greek language has nothing in common with Ancient Greek, which is simply not true
Despite that, us modern Greeks are Roman more than anything, and I am proud of that personally. The Byzantines (ERE) and modern Greece share a lot more in common, mainly language, tradition, history and religion, so it is understandable to draw connections between these two identities
However, with Ancient Greece the connection is much more indirect, but that doesn't mean it's not valid. Ancient Greece existed before the lifetime of Christ, so it is understandable to see why the religions are vastly different
Ancient Greece is more or less a primitive form of what Greece would ultimately become as the language and shared history (ie in the same geographical area) are still there
Saying that Ancient Greece and Modern Greece have absolutely nothing to do with each other is simply wrong, but the connection is a lot more indirect than it was with the Eastern Romans, simply due to the historical time frame. We are talking about millennia here
Nej nej nej ... se äfter ni är ättlingar från Kurderna.. medes the hurians...mm .. selaw from Kurdistan...
@justagreekhistoria As a Macedonian, I must respectfully disagree with some of your conclusions, and I feel the need to clarify the distinct identity of the Macedonian people throughout history. Unlike the claims that try to homogenize the identities of the ancient Hellenes and the Macedonians, there is abundant historical evidence proving that Macedonians were always distinct, both culturally and politically, from the Hellenes.
1. Distinct Identity of Macedonians
From ancient sources, it is evident that the Macedonians were not considered Hellenes by the Greeks themselves:
Herodotus: While some claim that Herodotus referred to the Macedonian kings as Hellenes due to their supposed descent from Argos, this was a political fabrication meant to establish legitimacy. The general Macedonian population was never referred to as Greek.
Thucydides: He clearly separates the Macedonians from the Hellenes in his historical accounts, often grouping them with other non-Greek peoples.
Demosthenes: The famous Athenian statesman referred to Philip II of Macedon as a "barbarian," a term reserved for non-Greeks. He outright rejected any notion that Macedonians were part of the Hellenic world.
2. Macedonians in Every Century
The Macedonian identity persisted through history, regardless of political changes:
Hellenistic Period: Even under Alexander the Great, the Macedonians maintained their own identity, with their distinct customs, political systems, and dialect.
Roman Period: Macedonia was a Roman province, and its people were never referred to as Greeks but as Macedonians.
Byzantine Period: The Byzantines identified the Macedonian region distinctly, with references to the Macedonian theme (administrative unit) and the Macedonian dynasty.
Ottoman Period: Under Ottoman rule, the people of Macedonia were distinct in their traditions, language, and culture. Macedonian Slavs were documented as a separate group by travelers and scholars.
19th-20th Century: Macedonians fought for their identity during the Ilinden Uprising and later under the oppression of neighboring nations. Numerous ethnographic maps and studies, including those by foreign observers, clearly labeled the population as Macedonian, not Greek.
3. Modern Denial of Macedonian Identity
It is puzzling why some people go to great lengths to deny the existence of a distinct Macedonian nation, despite overwhelming evidence:
If Macedonians were always Hellenes, why is there no historical record referring to them as Greeks?
Why do even ancient Greek sources clearly differentiate between Macedonians and Hellenes?
Why does the modern narrative try to erase a nation's history, culture, and language when evidence exists for every era of Macedonian existence?
4. Regarding Language
The argument about language as proof of identity is shaky at best. Language evolves, and shared linguistic elements don’t erase cultural and national distinctions:
Slavic languages in Macedonia developed as a result of historical migrations, but the cultural identity of the Macedonians remained tied to their land and heritage.
5. To Address the Comment Directly
You acknowledge that modern Greek identity formed much later, particularly during the 19th century, as a result of the French Revolution and the revival of classical ideals. This itself is evidence that the connection between modern Greeks and ancient Hellenes is more cultural and linguistic than political or national. However:
No historical source supports the claim that Macedonians were Hellenes.
Macedonians existed as a distinct people throughout history, with a continuous identity, regardless of political borders or linguistic shifts.
If you know of any ancient or medieval record that refers to Macedonians as Greeks, we’d love to see it-because so far, the evidence only points to their separate identity.
In Conclusion
Denying the identity of an entire nation with well-documented history, culture, and tradition is not only illogical but also deeply disrespectful. Macedonians have existed as a distinct people through every century, and no amount of revisionism can change that. Let’s celebrate the unique identities of all peoples, rather than attempting to erase or merge them into convenient narratives.
@@EuropeHistoryy Okay so firstly
Isocrates (To Philip, 5.106):
"You, a descendant of Heracles, are destined by birth to undertake the leadership of the Hellenes."
While this doesn't explicitly refer to all Macedonians as Hellenes, it frames Philip (and by extension Macedonia) as a significant Hellenic power
Meanwhile, Thucydides (History of the Peloponnesian War, 2.99):
"Archelaus not only strengthened the kingdom internally but also built roads and organized festivals in the manner of the Hellenes."
Once again, this doesn't explicitly call the Macedonians Greeks, but it does show a shared culture between the Hellenes and the Macedonians
In general however, no matter how you slice it Ancient Macedonians were Greek. Sure, modern (North) Macedonians are Slavs and have their own identity separate from the Greek one, this doesn't mean that the Ancient Kingdom of Macedon is North Macedonian - and by extension Slavic
As for your timeline for Macedonia, it doesn't really bring a lot to the table; the Romans called the people there Macedonians because that's what they were - Macedonians. By that time, Macedonia was just a Roman province with a strong Pagan (Greek) identity, similarly to most of the Eastern Mediterranean. Once again, during the "Byzantine" period (it's still just the Roman Empire but okay) you claim that the Macedonians were distinct, but all I see here is just administration differences. Themes existed in Asia Minor too, does that make them non Roman? (Important to note: by this time the word Greek has faded out and has been replaced by the much more prestigious Roman one) As for the Macedonian dynasty, that's probably came about as a result of the dynasty's home province, Macedonia. Doesn't mean they were Slavic and doesn't mean they were (North) Macedonian as you say they are. Then under the Ottoman rule, I can agree, the Macedonian Slavs were indeed separate, though they did have very close ties to the Bulgarian identity, at times being synonymous with them. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a large Roman (now slowly going back to being Greek) presence in the region. Macedonia (the whole province) was generally very much ethnically mixed and with no concept of a nation state people could identity with either their home towns, villages, regions, provinces, empires etc etc
Though I can understand where you are coming from, your argument in my opinion is fundamentally flawed. You claim that modern Greeks have nothing to do with Ancient Greece but you somehow miraculously trace back the North Macedonian lineage all the way back to Alexander the Great. Generally, if you ask any historian, they'll tell you this simple reality; the Ancient Macedonians were Greek and saying otherwise is pretty much trying to argue for a conspiracy theory, which I cannot work with
What language did Spartans speak?
Coming soon: a video exploring the differences between Spartans and Athenians. Speaking the same language doesn’t make them the same nation-just like Australians and Americans! :D
@@EuropeHistoryy Stop trying to compare the modern notion of nationality with city states that existed over two millennia ago
The Spartans and the Athenians didn't speak the exact same language sure, but they were dialects of each other which means they are linguistically very close
The way we can know which city states and kingdoms were seen as Greek and which weren't is by looking at the Olympic Games
Back then, the Olympic Games were only restricted to one type of people - Greeks - and any other ""ethnic"" group would be seen as barbaric (not the modern notion - barbaric here means non Greek)
I mean, if they were completely different peoples, what would be the difference between a Macedonian (who was allowed to partake in the Olympic Games) and a Thracian (who wasn't allowed to do so)?
@EuropeHistoryy That's like saying Kurds in Turkey and Kurds in Iraq aren't the same people??? Athenians simply spoke a different dialect from Spartans, hence known as doric and koine???
@@justagreekhistorianAh, yes, the 'Macedonians played in the Olympics' argument! Let's not forget-only three Macedonians are recorded as participating in the ancient Olympics, out of a kingdom that lasted centuries. That’s like saying a country is obsessed with soccer because they sent three players to the World Cup over hundreds of years. Maybe they were just visiting for the snacks! Why other Macedonians didnt played?
@@jovanvladetic8772That’s like saying all Slavic nations are Macedonians just because their language was based on Old Church Slavonic. By that logic, every country using the Latin alphabet must be ancient Romans too! Nice try, but no.
Πολέμιον ανθρώποις αυτοί εαυτοίς.
Ανάχαρσις
Σκύθης ηγεμόνας & φιλόσοφος (6ος π.Χ. αιών)
Sounds and reads like modern Greek. It's beautiful.
Who ever claims everything is Greek and all we have just been informed within, is mistaken by ignorance. We do know, identify, determine (as far as science allows) by scripts and or monumental crafts: a) the connections and civilization characteristics between nations, tribes (call it what ever you like) of ancient eras, b) the cultural contribution of ancient Greeks, Sumerians etc c) The name Έλληνες is referred in Iliad but for a specific tribe d) Γραικός (Graikos - Greek) : Greeks used to be called Graikoi. In ancient Greek mythology, Graikos was the son of Pandora and God Zeus. By philologist, glossologist G.Babiniotis, the word Γραικός is of unknown etymology and there is a sense that it can mean: old, old, ancient. Aristotle in his Parian Chronicle, Apollodorus, mention that Έλληνες were previously called Greeks, «πρώτον μεν Γραικοί νυν δε Έλληνες». So, the provided information for making this is faulty, due to historical and academic evidence. Best regards.
@Manolischannel I check the real survived documents like Persian, Chinese, Indian, Babylonian and Egyptian, and no one of them mentioned greece, hellas or ellas :D soon is coming video. Alexander never spred the Athenians psgan practices
The "experts" at it again, are they? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I mean cleopatra was greek 😂
Tell me why Romans talk about magna grecia in their historical documents?
And also about Grecia
The Romans used the term Graecia to refer to the geographic area inhabited by the people they identified as pagans. However, this was a Roman construct, not a term used by the Greeks themselves, who called their land Hellas and referred to themselves as Hellenes.
The Romans adopted the term from their encounter with the Graeci, a small tribe in Epirus, and generalized it to describe all Helenic-speaking peoples. For the Romans, Graecia became a convenient term to categorize a cultural region that was influential in language, philosophy, and art, but politically fractured.
For instance, Roman authors such as Cicero, Livy, and Pliny the Elder used the term to describe the cultural achievements of the Greeks, often admiring their contributions to philosophy, literature, and governance. However, they were clear about the fragmented nature of Greek society. Cicero, for example, frequently praised Greek culture while criticizing the lack of political unity among the city-states.
This usage of "Graecia" highlights that the Romans viewed the Greeks more as a cultural phenomenon rather than a unified political or ethnic group. Books like "The Geography" by Strabo or "The Natural History" by Pliny the Elder provide examples of Roman perspectives on "Graecia," treating it as a region marked by shared language and traditions but diverse political systems.
In short, the Romans used "Graecia" for practical administrative and cultural categorization, not as a recognition of a unified Greek identity, which even the Greeks themselves did not fully claim at the time.
Grecia is literally the Latin word for Hellas.
@@michaeltsigaridakes9856The term Hellas and its association with the Hellenes underwent significant changes over time, particularly during the Byzantine and Ottoman periods. In antiquity, Hellas referred to the geographic region inhabited by the Hellenes and carried cultural and religious significance tied to their pagan traditions. However, with the rise of Christianity in the Byzantine Empire, the term "Hellene" took on a new, negative connotation, being associated with paganism and polytheism. As Christianity became the dominant religion, "Hellene" was effectively banned as a term of identity to discourage any association with the pagan past.
Byzantine emperors and church authorities actively suppressed the use of "Hellene" as an ethnic or cultural identifier. Instead, people in the Byzantine Empire were referred to as Romans (Rhomaioi), emphasizing their political and religious affiliation with the Christian Roman Empire. Even the territories of ancient city-states were referred to as parts of the Byzantine Empire, with no reference to a "Hellenic" identity.
It wasn’t until the 19th century, during the Greek War of Independence, that the term "Hellenes" was revived as part of a nationalist project inspired by Western European ideals. The revival was heavily influenced by Philhellenism, a romanticized view of ancient Greece promoted by European intellectuals. The modern Greek state adopted "Hellenes" as a national identity, reconnecting with the classical past while distancing itself from the Byzantine and Ottoman traditions of "Roman" identity.
Yeah ok at least try to respond without using chat gbt 😢😢😢
oof. that is a video to post as an answer to delusional Grik bros. 10/10
Cope slavoid greeks ruled over you and then ottomans you are complete disgrace
King Philip and Alexander slaughtered 100s of thousands of Greeks then conquered them.
@@michaelsayn1962give the sourse. Do not tell lies. The Athenians during the peloponessian wave killed more Greeks. That does not mean that the Athenians are not Greek. Go to your doctor, you needed 😂
@KonTheo78 ah reh Kosta, you are a grecomani just like the rest of the modern Greek population. If you are not Albanian/Avranites you are a Christian Turk. Modern Greeks have been sold a fairytale go and speakmto your psychiatrist.
@@michaelsayn1962even psychiatrist is a greek word . Even your mom's pussy is a greek object
So funny and so true. Also, about the name Greece, even today, that name doesn’t exist. I don’t know why everybody and “ Greeks”themselves call their country Greece. The official name of the country is Hellenic Republic( Eliniki Demokratia in greek) but for some reason nobody call them by their name. Hmmm, because even that one is probably fraudulent? Who knows, but seems like their history is very confusing for one simple reason. Because it”s all fake.
Ask the Romans and their map of 100 BC Tabula Peutingeriana which locates Greece in the exact spot it is today
Solun is Macedonian
This is the same as the Bulgarians, and Noah was a Bulgarian 😅
First time I've heard anyone say this.
No absurdity here , what you probably mean is foreigner jealousy of Hellenic legacy ! Yes, almost everything (of value) began with Ancient Greece because the Greeks were the people who elevated mankind from the tribal and animal-like state which had preceded it. The good thing is that there is nothing you can do about it because it is a fact. The bad thing and the question you should be asking yourself is why this fact bothers you enough to want to disrespect a people's history and heritage. Jealous much?
Hmmm, do you know what name the Persians used to refer to you? In all Persian records, there’s no mention of Hellenic people. Do you know how the Chinese and Indian records identify you? There’s no evidence of Greek people there either. Maybe you’ve been misinformed and need to double-check! Hahaha!
W@@EuropeHistoryywith the same word that every Eastern people until today call the Greeks, Ίωνες. Do not tell lies and go to read History.
@KonTheo78 what what what? Hahha are you serious? What name is that? Who called you like that? I was thinking they know you like helens hahahaha
@@EuropeHistoryy Hahaha you may me laugh, go to read Greeks in Arab until now is "alyunan" that comes from" Ίωνες" you do not know history and language history.
@KonTheo78 So, everyone knows you by a different name? That’s interesting-hahaha! But did you know Macedonians were always known as Macedonians? No name games there. Hahaha, you’ve got to be kidding me, dude, with this. You just find random names and slap a 'Greek' label on them-hahaha!
Ionians were simply a tribe living in Anatolia, not a term representing Greeks. You really need to read the books to understand that. And do you even know what they called the so-called 'Hellenistic culture' that Alexander spread? Hahaha! Please, answer this and make my day. Just try if you can! Hahaha!
MACEDONIAN!!!
The definition of the word PATHETIC!!!
@@TdHf-g7o hahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahaha I’m glad you understand!
wath is eladas DNA ?
Finally realized…
Stop trying to create a false narrative and spread ridiculous propaganda. I’ve already explained this in the comments, and I’m not going to waste more time repeating myself on every comment you make. You’re just a kid trying to build something that doesn’t exist based on a single sentence.
You’ve never even attempted to prove the existence of "Greek" or "Hellenic" people through the centuries after Alexander the Great. And now, just because you can understand Koine Greek, you think everything is yours? It doesn’t matter that no Babylonian, Persian, Indian, or Chinese record mentions Hellenic people. Not one single coin bears the name Hellas, Ellada, or Greece. No ancient map shows Hellas, Ellada, or Greece. But sure, you can understand Koine, so that means it’s all yours?
Hahahaha, kid, you’re only embarrassing yourself!
One of many things you're grossly wrong about is the modern and pre-modern language (the latter mainly used for writing and that's why the already spoken 'dimotikoi' was adopted for writing in the 1970s) and its astonishing correlation to ancient Greek. Also, who discovered the heliocentric earth and mathematically proved it? The various Greeks you complain about are Greek tribes. Just thought I'd throw that in. Xeretai.
@Joe-b4f3h Just answer one simple question: Why do Persian records never mention Hellenic people? How is it that they had no knowledge of the so-called ancient Greeks?
@@EuropeHistoryy They are grk tribes
@@Joe-b4f3h what exploration is this? Haha
Do you know other persian records? You know, the Persian wars were between Persia and ???? AMERICA? RUSSIA? I think that your level of education is very low. @EuropeHistoryy
Ou my God, this is soooo true. I nearly died laughing :))))
Macedonia for Macedoniens Amin
New Zealand because you are not born on Greek
Truth can be hilarious! :D
Stupidity is always funny
Rhomioi are most definitely not Greeks, it is just that Greeks are one if their ancestors. Smerdaleos already proven it.
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And what is your exact nationality???????
@georgealevriadis897 Macedonian! Read the Bible, read the Quran and you can find all info. Also you can read all Byzantine and Ottoman historical records to prove further!
@@EuropeHistoryy BHAHAHAHAHAAHA EVEN THE STONES ARE LAUGHING WITH YOU, YOU TITO-BULGARIAN EXPERIMENT GONE ROGUE HAHAHAH
Did you include Greek fire? The first real call to fire. 8th century my friend
@@Joe-b4f3h It seems I’ve forgotten a lot of things, so it’s time for me to create a new video. haha
@@EuropeHistoryy It was probably discovered by a Greek. You didn't get what I was actually conveying. I see your overall arguments, but they're littered with (embarrassing) inaccuracies.
@Joe-b4f3h Greeks discovered everything, but they get discovered in 19th century hahaha
@allstarlord9110 Stop trying to create a false narrative and spread ridiculous propaganda. I’ve already explained this in the comments, and I’m not going to waste more time repeating myself on every comment you make. You’re just a kid trying to build something that doesn’t exist based on a single sentence.
You’ve never even attempted to prove the existence of "Greek" or "Hellenic" people through the centuries after Alexander the Great. And now, just because you can understand Koine Greek, you think everything is yours? It doesn’t matter that no Babylonian, Persian, Indian, or Chinese record mentions Hellenic people. Not one single coin bears the name Hellas, Ellada, or Greece. No ancient map shows Hellas, Ellada, or Greece. But sure, you can understand Koine, so that means it’s all yours?
Hahahaha, kid, you’re only embarrassing yourself!
De finns 70 miljoner kurder selaw from Kurdistan ...
Eladas stop crying 🤣🤣🤣
true but still ai trash
This is ridiculously propaganda,yes they speak different dialects not languages,and spartan ,athenians and macedonians was greeks,it seems you separate also spartants and athenianns because was different cities,then why call all the german states as saxons and prussians as german ,no they was different nations too 😂😂😂 and according how old greeks are? As old are the pelasgians from which come from all greeks and most of mediterannean race thousands years before.anthropologists like aris poulianos has proven that ,but ofcource medias dont want show anything from him
Stop crying malaka pusti
This vid is totally true!
LOL
Iron maiden knows better history . Alexander the greeeeeeaaaaattttt