Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Sexual Abuse: Why Is the Two-Witness Rule a Red Herring?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- Often you will see protestors holding signs protesting the Organization's implementation of the two-witness rule. In interviews, we'll hear conscientious activist blame much of the mishandling of child sexual abuse cases by Jehovah's Witnesses on the two-witness rule.
This video attempts to show that the real problem is not the two-witness rule and that using it in protests actually helps the cause of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. There is a far better alternative which this video explains in detail.
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Their coldness toward their neighbours, not caring what harm a predator Will do unreported, reveals the true priorities of the organization.
@muted spark Your biblical gymnastics does you no credit. You are one of the very people that Eric talks about here, who hide these criminals in their midst! Hypocrite!
I couldn’t have said that better myself. You nailed it !!
So the organization want to use clergy privilege when it suits them. Then say that they have no clergy when that also suits them. Interesting, isn't it?
Exactly
Your arguments are powerful. Thank you for pointing out the weaknesses in Watchtower policy, especially where there are really two witnesses because there is more than one victim. Plus pointing out that they are actually disobeying the superior authorities is devastating to their fake stand that they are obeying God by the two witness rule.
That was the initial arguement l held.
Then finding so many OTHER genuine reasons over which one might leave, dates proclaimed that did not meet with expectations, as well as harsh shunning policy which has had ,serious NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES for those affected in families etc.
This caused me to wonder if there was any comment or hint in scripture that would explain what on earth was happening !
Together with the growing volume of voices in activism.
Love WAS lacking.
Scriptures mentioned this
The love of the greater number said jesus, WOULD grow cold.
This exactly described or explained the sad scene .
Those feeling the weight of the lack of this Christike quality, know what l mean...its where l am , where lve been..
Then l realised, this proved actually that God was WITH these .
Re reading revelation, which tells us new things we know MUST take place, With fresh eyes,
Things that shake our faith because , doubts arise,
Good to check it out from the ground up. .
( the introductory verses of rev tell us this comes from Almighty God , who gives it to jesus, who passes it on to john.
Each in turn , from God down, reveals new information, before unknown , which in itself bears witness to the nature of God, not being triune ( for they are not all aware of the same things. Christ, was in heaven where he recieved the revelation, long since his resurrection to heaven )
Now coming to the reason why we must expect harsh policies by those God uses at that time :
Rev 2 :27 as well as many other verses indicate that Christ is seen with an IRON ROD.
With it he sheperds
WHO DOES THAT !!??
Surely that runs counter to whatever sheperds have done in the past !
Imagine the results of the sheep (many of whom are already wounded and insecure, scared or weak,) being shepherded by a rod of iron
Would not wood be kinder, gentler ?
Cold ,unyielding and unfeeling, iron would not be the choice for me.
Yet that is precisely what has been ordered to be used, by the Almighty !
Jesus submits as does as God wills , as always, but its news to him.
Likely as before ,as a human , he might have to accede, to Gods greater wisdom in doing this.
The Sovereign has destined that things now must come to a head, and is the reason that things must be different.
He is in the process of gathering nations, as rev 16:14,16 says.
In his letters to the future congregations, recorded in revelation 2, jesus mentioned the subject of love again , alerting us that the intensity of the love in the congregation originally, was greater saying " l hold this against you, that you left the love you had at first "!
I can visualise Christ shaking his head, lamenting over this
Giving it this Interpretation with a wider meaning, actually has had the opposite effect.
The tables are turned.
Rather than the harsh policies be reasonable justification to run away , these verses are telling us
That the Almighty would use this method.
Should we be surprised ?
Perhaps not.
The compassion we have learned of the Christ , we might expect everyone to be nice.
Judicial matters handled often void of consideration to the devastating situations that shunning will leave the family .
Ignoring mitigating circumstances , there are procedures that have direct NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES on individuals.
This brings up another point that revelation revealed .
Rev 11:5 , 6
The two witnesses ( ironically )
Is that the sense of humour of the Almighty, to include the issue cryptically in prophecy?
Possibly,
In the future, we might look back , and be impressed with Gods words' accuracy !!
The two witnesses are authorised to strike earth with plagues.
Plagues always have negative consequences or effects, always
" as often and whenever they wish ".
Can anyone dispute that this has not been the case , when looking through the modern day history of Jehovah witnesses .?!!
This book of the bible is not termed , "a reminder",as if to say, the same way jesus was then, is the precise way we will see him coming again
Revelation, a revealing of something heretofore unseen
Unexpected, now revealed.
Is this the senses in which scripture says " every eye will see him "..
Seeing is not recognising
The jews saw him
But did not accept his manner of coming
They therefore rejected him
Could this be a warning ?
Not living up to ones expectations,
Was the fault with Christ ?
That couldn't be right.
It is within we ourselves that adjustments are required.
Our minds , interpretations, things written , the way theyve been taken, had the effect or would have, that it was written the entire inhabited earth, Satan would be able to mislead !
Outside of the box thinking
Is required to achieve
The victory.
What the purpose be , for this dirth in the depth of love ?
I believe Ezekiel 38,is in play
To bring about the final attack on the land of decoration, Gods peoples' spiritual estate, Gog needs to be dragged into place.
Hooks in jaws, how does he get that way ?
Bait.
No, its Not nice, being bait
This is what must take place.
Were not the Hebrew slaves, bait ?
Pharoah had to put them in their place
Only when Moses was ordered to give them nowhere to run , to make an escape
Did the lord of lords, the sovereign, save the day.
Who would have thought
That God would save them that way
They , we too, need to have that kind of faith !!@@
Your explanation of the 2 withness rule makes more sense now. Thank you for sharing...
As a JW for 27 years i can agree that they tune out anyone who doesn't agree with the governing body.
WOKE UP, THAT IS SO TRUE. THEY ARE PERFECT AND TO QUESTION THEM IS DEFINITELY A NO NO SMH!😶😐😵
@@unclesalty7778 I Got baptized in 1976 and never been a pioneer or regular in the field service. Never could get comfortable in this religion because in the back of my mind always felt something was not right. It took from then to last year for me to leave this organization completely and I feel so 😌. All because of this movement on TH-cam. I now know why I never felt right. I was more or less scared into this religion because of Armageddon. Can you imagine being a kid and learning about the end of the world and how devastating it will be and if you are not a baptized dedicated witness you will die. That is the main reason I got baptized because the sister that studied with me told me that all the time and scared me into baptism at the age of 14. Sad but true. Smh! There is so much more I can say but I won't. SO HAPPY TO BE FREE FROM THAT SO CALLED TRUTH! IM SO DEEPLY SCARRED...SMH!😟😧
@@sharonharris4441 Good for you! Please continue to speak out and expose. It's information, experiences and views such as what you provide that helps other people. You do make a difference.
@@gbnomore3918 I have already and my friend already shunned me. Im cool with it and I will every chance I get. Thank you!!!!😉
@@sharonharris4441 I like the way you said you could never get comfortable in the religion. That was the same thing I went through! And the reason I never advanced and left and went back until I finally woke up LOL. In fact my mom who is elderly now called me today and said did you go to the meeting? I was like heck no Mom what? Are you crazy I'm no part of that religion anymore. They protect child rapists why would I be? She's getting senile but it's kind of humorous, she just believes in God and wants to do what's right. Love her for that.
Good job. That's the best angle to help wake up those who are not responding yet.
Brilliant sir you have given me the opening I have been missing. Thank thank thank you
I need to just stop with this entire religion. They had me for years. The most high removes me and I give all praises
A good step in the right direction but you won't be free until you rid yourself of all superstition!
Amen
I notice when people are lying, like Breaux, they speak with an artificially even tone as if they are so reasonable that they cannot be disputed with. This is a typical tactic employed by well-known politicians.
They talk about modesty yet I noticed how luxuriously & expensively he was dressed. Like a bishop in his purple silks(tie/handkerchiefs) & very expensive linen suit. It's not his wedding day! Back in the day he would have been counselled for a 'flashy display of wealth'.
@@annabizaro-doo-dah You're right. In the 70's bethelittes dressed in donated clothing to show their poverty because of their total dedication to the ministry.
This is excellent, I have learned more from your videos than over 50 yrs as a JW.You are one of those fighting the good fight!
same here!!!
Personally, I think that the principle of “knowing your bull was in the habit of goring and not restraining it” is a most important principle when dealing with child abusers in the congregation.
I had never before made the connection, Fayley. Thank you for that insight!
Perfect example
Excellent! This is uncluttered and straight to the point! Thanks for sharing. Sad to say you will never be gb worthy! lol!
Perhaps Eric could add this point at the end of this powerful video (also maybe Eric could make a slightly condensed version for our 'Yung wonz' who don't have our concentration span Lol)😂
Fayley A Excellent point.
This is superb. I texted this video to my son and he blocked out my phone. And told me to never speak to him again.
I’m sorry you’re going through this heartbreak, I am as well with my son and grandchildren. Take care 💐
Thanks for this Eric. I have shared this video with some exjws. I'm sure many more will see it. This video is extremely practical. This indeed is an approach I believe will have positive result.
Strong reasoning, scripture based. Excellent dissertation Eric. Keep it up.🇵🇷👍💪
You knocked it out of the park with this one !!! WELL DONE !! This judgement needed to be pronounced!! Thank you for speaking the truth !
Thank You
I have been saying the same thing for years
It is a CRIME and not a SIN.!!!!
thank you Eric ,sound advice and sound Biblical reasoning. Who can dispute the Bible. God is watching these devils and will act accordingly.
Well articulated polemics. Intuition suggests that a radical overhaul is close by, as God's illustrious name simply must not be affiliated with the monstrous crime of child molestation. Thank you for close consideration of this emotive subject matter.
Gods name ??
Chilly Perth: Is God nameless?
@@justaroundthecorner2883 how many languages
@@justaroundthecorner2883 come on Anglo Saxons
Excellent as always! Reasonable and based on facts. Thank you Eric.
Thank you once again Eric, excellent work.
Fran South Wales Britain. Way to go Eric that was an awesome video . I can't understand why witnesses can't see the hypocrisy I studied for years on and off but could never commit by baptism. I could see there was to much wrong going on, now if found your channel I can't wait to be baptised. Iv loved Jehovah and Jesus all my life and now iv found the right way to worship all though a little late, I'm 68 but better late than never. Thank you so much. 🙋
Fran,
I don't know about all JW's, but many were "born in", including me. As JW's, we thought that we were especially blessed. And I, having been "born in", wondered at how easy things had been for me,... not having to unlearn a false religion. Lol. Well, now it's me having to unlearn Watchtower. That's wonderful that you now are enthusiastic about getting baptised. :)
Just to say I wish I'd heard this video two weeks ago, because I lost 2 witnesses at my door who said 'we're not here to debate' just as you said :(
Your organization hides pedophiles. What's there to debate?
Brother , I appreciate your clear explanation of how to make this simple change . I don’t picket with the vast apostates cause of my location but I absolutely would love to but I’m gonna to share your video with everyone so they can make these changes. It’s hard to get around the obstacles the Governing body have put in place because they make your head spin . Now we can make their heads sin . Thank you.
You have brought me peace through logic and reason today. Thank you Eric!
I wanted to share an observation about Gary Breaux's comment. He holds to the fact that the 2 witness rule is based solidly on scripture and will never be changed. At least the mention of 2 witnesses is found in the Bible. In his next statement he proudly states a judicial committee will never be formed unless 2 witnesses are available. Where is a Judicial Committee found in scripture? Where is the process for holding this meeting outlined in scripture? I did a wol search for Judicial commitee in the 1930-85 index. The oldest article was in 1970. If this process is based on scripture and important to worshipping Jehovah properly, wouldn't it have been championed and followed since Jehovah chose them in 1919? I have many elders I served with for many years, none of them can honestly show anyone the scriptural outline for the Judicial Commitee. This is a man made process designed not to keep the congregation clean but to silence many people who have reasonable and rational thoughts. I ask all Jehovah's Witnesses examine all of your beliefs in the Bible's light not just a few.
@BIG HORN MGTOW Could you enlighten me on the acronym? Then I will know how to reply. Thanks
@BIG HORN MGTOW Thank you. I am a MGTOW also. Very liberating! I have realized what John 8:32 and Matthew 11:28-30 really mean. Thank you for enlightening me.
@muted spark It is very interesting to me how Watchtower decided to base their policies on just a limited # of scriptures. Your point proves this perfectly. They doggedly hold to these against all reason. In my honest opinion, they are too arrogant to be honest. Because we live in an information age and people can now research all angles. If Watchtower plans to survive the leaders have to come clean, be honest and transparent. They will lose 1/2 their members immediately. What may remain is a kinder gentler group of people who can still base their core beliefs on God's word but refuse to go beyond what is written. Just my two cents. Have a great day!
@muted spark That is so interesting! Those Watchtower glasses will get you everytime. I would like to share a story with you sometime!
Ookla, are you currently attending then?
Excellent! Thank you Brother.
Thank you for your solid and sane reasoning on this disturbing and horrifically cruel policy of the watchtower society. This is by far the worst of the worst things that this sickening mind controlling man made organization has done. What a travesty this is.
Loved it! I was initially thinking, "Mention that Mt. 18 doesn't call the two witnesses. EYE witnesses.". But then I saw your point. Excellent development of your argument.
Excellent points, thank you.
Absolutely phenomenal video Mr Wilson
I’m praying all congregations hear this and are not ordered to not watch the news , I remember it happening before and I got so rigged I told the elder off, I couldn’t believe I had the guts but they were outright lying to us and the congregation ate it up
I hope everything is well with you, and yours. May our father help you and give you peace in all your endeavors and current projects. Miss your videos. :)
Thanks for this explicit, sound argument! Hypocrites they are and hypocrites they'll always be except they turn around and stop misleading ignorant millions.
1. All forms of abuse need to be reported to the police. "Give to Caesars what is Caesar."
2. After that, the abuse can be reported to the Elders and they will do a Judicial enquiry. "Give to God what is God's."
Watching this Sept 2021. Great perspective on such a sensitive issue. Watchtower always argues that they ARE following the command in Romans by following the branch office answer as to whether the regional law requires that they must report csa (and in some cases domestic violence).
Sadly they believe they do not have to obey the law if it brings reproach to Jehovah's name. That is their loophole on this. My auntie was disfellowshipped for reporting her husband to the authorities after medical examination proved her husband had molested their children. He got no punishment as there was no second witness. Doctor report did not count. But my auntie brought reproach to Jehovah and his organisation so she was blamed and put through more torment. I remember them teaching from the platform they only need to cooperate with the law if it will...fake reason bring reproach...real reason implicate them financially and expose the Freemason agenda they have got going on that encourages child abuse.
They are the law to themselves. God help you when you fall from grace with them. No wonder all their interpretations and prophecies are flawed.
Thank you so much for your thoughts! Of course, now that does make sense! Instead of stabbing at the 2 witness rule....turn it around and focus on their obedience to the Superior Authorities. They really should have no argument with that.
Beautifully stated and thought out.
Two witness rule??? A child molester will make sure there;s no one to see this horrific act taking place. However, if more than one child makes an accusation against the same person, the second victim indicates that this person needs to be reported. This demonstrates the lack of insight and wisdom on the part of Watchtower's leadership. They can't deal with justice and wisdom now much less 1000 years.
But guess what? They are not fooling Jehovah!!
Wow! That is so insightful and knowledgeable. May it aid understanding to assist JWs and especially past and potential victims.
Thanks Eric. You have explained it well. 😊
Beroean Pickets
Great info - thanks 🙏
Intelligence is the bane of all religions.
And hearing a person speak who has both intelligence and wisdom makes the head man of a religion apoplectic.
What if Watchtower points to Acts 5:29 that states "But Peter and the apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than any human authority." Thoughts?
Before the whole child sexual abuse issue raised its ugly head, I never heard about the two-witness rule. Now it is the flavor of the day. In my opinion, Watchtower scrambled to find something in the Bible that clears them from responsibility. Once they found it, the GB were so excited that it was in the Bible. They publicized their new found favorite "get out of jail" card to everyone outside their organization. We will never let go of our "two witness rule". And, to this very day, Watchtower will always weasel themselves out of responsibility and deflect their responsibility onto their publishers.
Now if you take the two-witness rule with child sexual abuse and apply it to the greatest commandments. Does the two witness rule with child abuse hold water? Ask yourself: is it loving your neighbor to cover up child sexual abuse? Is it loving your neighbor to not call the authorities and report a crime? Is it loving your neighbor... I believe the answers are obvious. The whole two-witness rule fails at the greatest commandments level entirely.
Obeying God means obeying the Superior Authorities that are put in place by God himself, especially when it's a matter of giving unto Caesar what belongs to Ceasar. Criminal cases belong to Caesar. And that's why they're always the first to report Arson or Burglary of Kingdom Halls to the Police!
@@pacvale9768 but if there is clergy penitent privilege in the law as regards child sexual abuse, then Watchtower will say they were obeying such law in the case of Montana's ruling.
@@byebyewatchtower Moral victory far outweighs ordinary court victory for any religious organisation. For example, 1973 secular victory for pro-abortion is still being haunted by many moralists.
Great talk, keep up the good work brother.
Wow! Well stated,thank you 👏👍👏👍
Excellent this should hit the people who need to rethink their whole beliefs. We should pray that they wake up.
We are glad for the internet expose all
if it's ok to save an animal on the Sabbath... why is "God's Org" claiming the Bible forbids them to save children ?
You are a blessing from Jehovah
I completely agree with this video. On a sidenote, at least the Catholic Church has acknowledged and apologised for their handling of child sex abuse. Something the Watchtower hasn't and will not unless force to do so.
My mom was a witness. I used to attend meetings with her and even do bible studies. I never got baptized because my intuition was sensing something funky going on. Later I personally witnessed quite a bit of lying going on from the sister's. I worked with a sister here in California (she was one of my bible teachers) and she used to twerk (yes I said twerk) in the back rooms in front of everyone. She was in her 50s and her husband is an elder. Her daughters are disfellowed and she still communicates with them. I see her around still and she disgusts me. I asked her to leave me alone one morning as I was trying to get to a drs. Appointment and the next thing I know, the new girl I was studying with stopped all contact and I have6seen any of them around in the last year. That's ok though because I was just about to question her on all the missing scripts from the new testament and why the trust in and follow certain mainstream beliefs such as western medicine and why they dont encourage a true healthy lifestyle; organic eating, exercise, plant based medicine ect. It's hard to make sense of all their double standards. I truly believe they DO NOT have our best interests at heart. I'm not sure what their motives are (money?) but I no that these people are full blown liars. And the tones of voice that the sis6use is disgusting. When you ask them a question that challenges their teaching they use their soft creep drawn out tones of voice and always play dumb and avoid a straight answer. I'll stop at that but I could definitely go on.
Marie,
I like using herbal and natural remedies, too. I knew a very good JW chiropractor. He heard feedback from his patients that Watchtower discouraged Witnesses from using his services. Nice to meet you here.
@@vintage6346 see, now that is what was always odd to me. They will share health info coming out of Harvard which is usually monitored by big pharma which is killing tons of people. There are major contradictions in their teachings.
Nice to meet you.
@@LM-dl3yx,
Yes, they support big pharma. But sweet little green leaves for a healthy tea, or especially healthy roots (turmeric, ginger, etc.),.. they are scandalized if we promote these. Smh.
Thanks Eric sound reasoning.I wish the majority of EX JW activist would adopt and and endorse you point .best
Good Point. The problem is you can onl argue with elders about this. The normal witnesses will say it's a lie that we don't tell crimes to the authoritis and when you wan't tell them about Ausralia they will also tell this is a lie. But the bible verse who say "don't trust men" is indeed contrary to the Watchtower article.
There are a few things that just boggle my mind.
1. The parents. I don't have children, but if I did and someone in the hall raped them, there would be nothing left of him but a grease stain where he once was. And these parents are told to leave it in jehovah's hands and they do? I'd be shouting it from the rooftops. And many of the parents don't even believe their kids stories because "no that brother wouldn't do that".
2. The elders. If I were an elder and a child accused someone of rape, I would instantly call the police. They are the ones who can investigate the situation properly. If they threatened to remove me as elder, I'd kindly remove myself and report it. Its almost like all common sense leaves when you make it to elder status.
3. The gb and legal department. What sick individuals would spend millions fighting against abuse survivors? Its probably one of the sickest things I've heard. I apologize to god for ever being part of that religion
Another epic video from B-Pickets!👍
This woke me up. Expose this abusive cult
That's great, nice talk, thanks! your brother in faith.
Perfect argument Eric
Excellent points, they are in disobedient to the Higher Authority of the land by not reporting Child Sexual Abuse.
Why this world don't talk about adult Rape!
That is another problem in the Organization which is often dealt with in the same cover-up manner as child abuse.
@@BeroeanPickets I know I was drugged and raped by elders but the world never talk about it! The two witness rule is just a protection for them.
@@lovelysosweet8386 I'm so sorry this happened to you Lovely. I just want to tell you I've heard you😢. Have you had any professional help around dealing with this terrible trauma? Can we help in some way?
Domestic violence is just as prevalent in the organization and is also swept under the rug!
@@annabizaro-doo-dah I just wish the world would acknowledge women, especially black woman! Thank you for hearing me!💕
If Jehovah has given you the power to reason things out ,you must see the two witness rule is inapplicable in this case ,no pedo is going to commit this offence in front of another
OOOOEEEEEEEEEE! What a wonder! The comments haven't been turned off.
Maybe, just maybe the G.B of the WTS hasn't had chance to interfere with the post of the AGGRIEVED ONE?
How many posts have "COMMENTS TURNED OFF."
good one eric, thank you
Suppose a JW points to Acts 5: 29 where Christians are told to 'obey God as ruler' over man's laws then mentions verses in Proverbs that forbid revealing 'confidential' matters. How could that argument be countered?
Read Acts 27 onwards, Peter was talking about the Sanhedrin who would have used the Mosaic law.
Do you think that an elder sexually abusing someone else's child is a 'confidential' matter? Does raising your child in the discipline and mental regulating of Jehovah include allowing an elder to abuse your child in such a way? If so, then Jehovah himself is a sexual predator of children. Should that elder also be a married man, then is he also not guilty of the bible's prohibition of adultery and pornia? It would seem that the best course of action would be to burn all bibles, sieze the material assets of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses , lock them all up and throw away the key. Perhaps then, these crimes will be referred for justice.
Your question is easily answered, just think about. Eric just explained to you what God's law is at Romans 13 1-7. The problem you pose is only a challenge if you believe 8 guys are synonymous with God. So here's how Jws interpret Acts 5:29. You must obey the Governing Body as ruler rather than Men. When has God ever commanded that his servants stand by and keep a crime confidential? As I mentioned earlier take Watchtower glasses off and the truth becomes crystal clear. Sad to say for many of us it took decades to remove the glasses.
muted spark.... and the funding of their money machine.
@muted spark Amen Brother!
I think our best description after reading Roman's thirteen and comparing to what much of what the scriptures say about our response to sin is that Paul was probably most likely warning the church about the long arm of the brutal Roman empires police state. But having only somewhat disagreed I still very much like your videos and stye.
“the two men who have the dispute will stand before Jehovah, before the priests and the judges who will be serving in those days. 18 The judges will thoroughly investigate”
I love how they NEVER site the full teaching of the 2 witness rule. It clearly
Says if there are not 2 or more witnesses then to basically have a trial, a court case and an investigation....
Chris, you refer to Deuteronomy 19. I like your point. I'd say including all the verses of Deut. 19:15 - 21 give good context. Thanks.
Great points Eric. All JWs need to do is grab the Insight Volumes and look up "crime and punishment" and "Legal Case" (Vol 2 page 234 , which reads, " if a person was a witness to apostate acts , sedition, murder, which defiled the land, or certain other serious crimes, he was to report it and to testify to what he knew, or he would be subject to divine curse, publicly proclaimed".) in the Insight Volumes. They will see that Jehovah had in place an arrangement to handle crime in the nation of Israel. That was to report any knowledge of criminal wrongdoing to the judges in the gate . To not do so would make them a sharer in the wrong doing. However this arrangement was replaced by a new one for the Christian congregation. Now they were to report wrongdoing to the "superior authorities" , the secular Roman authorities at that time who were placed in that position by God. So, if a Christisn fails to report knowledge of a crime to the "superior" police authorities today, then he is disobeying God, and in God's eyes he becomes a sharer in the crime.
“They have accepted the adoption.”❤️❤️❤️
The true WhORGanisation...
JW WhORGanisation...
This warms my heart lol!
GB NoMore 😂
Well... I love the construction and it is only fair. The JW always calls everybody prostitute organisation this that and here and there while doing the same stuff themselves.
If you are the one to coin the meme I salute you ❤️
@@theohuioiesin6519 hey Theo, aren't you the one who was appointed as an elder then read the shepherd book and was like I'm done here LOL?
GB NoMore in summary yeah. A short
Career as an elder... 😂😎😇
@@theohuioiesin6519 I recounted your story recently in one of my posts! Thanks! If I can go back and find it I'll send you the link.
Just a question though, the bible version of a lady in the field being raped, she crying out and not being heard, means there are no witness as no one heard her. But the man is still stoned and the woman is believed. There are no witness to this raped in the bible. But the woman is believed and the man stoned.
There is no two witness rule when it comes to rape.
There would be forensic evidence persumably.
Beautifully broken down, the wriggling witnesses cannot get off the hook with this logic.
Because the GB has put themselves on the throne of God
This is well thought out. Say this louder. Simplify it. Have other people say it. Someone post this to reddit.
Thank you Eric for another brilliant video. I have tried reasoning with them that they are breaking censers law. I half expected the response. That being, we only keep their laws as long as it does not interfere with our worship to God. Then I got we don’t want to discuss it. I think some it doesn’t matter what you say you cannot engage them.
I have sent PM to you. I have a few questions that you may be able to help me with. I am 40 year JW/pioneer. I would appreciate it if you could reach out. I have only been out a year, and struggle with some issues. Many thanks Mike 🙏
Hi Mike,
You can email Eric at meleti.vivlon@gmail.com You might also ask him about how you can meet with other Christians online. We are currently using the Zoom platform for meetings.
Hi Mike, when you say you sent a PM to me, did you mean through Facebook. If so, I might have missed it as I rarely get on Facebook.
Hi Vintage. Many thanks for your info. Regards Mike
Hi Salviati. I assume by your comment you have asked every survivor if they object Meleti commenting about their pain. Have you asked survivors if you can speak for them. I think not ! Majority of survivors are only to happy for someone to comment on their behalf. The pain of their experience leaves them traumatised most unable to speak for themselves, cocooned in their thoughts and nightmares. I know I am a survivor. As a survivor I find your verbal attack on Meleti offensive, You could have asked me first if I would be interested in your opinion. Instead of trying to sway my thoughts on the subject. You have no right to address your comments to me without my permission. If I view Meliti’s views as brilliant that is my business. It is not your right to brand my decisions as false. I am quite capable of making my own decisions on individuals reasoning. Thank you but you are not a knight in shining armour coming to the rescue of survivors.
@@mikemesher8864 Excellently said brother Mike........
Well spoken.
From the clip at around 4:20, I wonder how many witnesses even questioned why this accusation is even brought forth. At face value it is entirely bizarre and oddly specific to mention the 2 witness rule, even to the eyes of a witness. Only one side of the story is given here.
The argument Gary presents is that it would compromise scriptural standing. Yet, if a witness is able to see the whole picture, they would know that God desires Mercy over Sacrifice.
Not to say he doesn’t want sacrifice at all, but he values Mercy more. They prefer to hold their righteousness by the law yet Jesus did not come for the righteous.
“But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.””
Matthew 9:13 NKJV
These are just my thoughts.
At Matthew 22:21, Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities..."
The governing authorities aren't concerned with assembling a judicial committee. The governing authorities are concerned with judging whether or not a crime has been committed, and if so, what penalty should be imposed on the perpetrator.
Where Watchtower goes wrong is in trying to keep everyone from reporting an act of pedophilia perpetrated by a JW to the governing authorities. Watchtower threatens the JWs who report a JW pedophile to the governing authorities with being disfellowshipped for making the report.
Eric's video explains how Watchtower obfuscates the truth about the issues so as to protect JWs who commit pedophilia from (1) being reported to the governing authorities and (2) being brought to justice by the governing authorities.
The elders can have their judicial meeting, listen to the confession of the one who is accused, and accept his repentance as genuine. Or, they can have their committee meeting, listen to his denial, and accept his denial as truth. And they can pray with him to their hearts content. No one is trying to stop the elders from having a judicial committe with the accused. The elders can admit or deny admittance of whatever evidence they see fit in their judicial committee meeting with the accused.
Arguing with Watchtower about THEIR APPLICATION of the two-witness rule for proving whether or not "the accused" has committed child sexual abuse is of no practical value as regards getting legal justice from the governing authorities. Even when Watchtower KNOWS that "the accused" is guilty, they still threaten to disfellowship any JW who reports the JW pedophile to the governing authorities.
Great points for a much better approach! Also Eph. 8-14. Specifically verse 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather EXPOSE them. After really studying JUST the Bible, I don't believe it's up to us to Wake them up...God will do this, if their hearts are right, in his time. However, we can Pray for them and I Pray for the exposure, (the Sheep skin is being pulled off and the Wolf is coming through). We are at the GREAT AWAKENING❣❣
Thank you for this video.
I might get a projecor and loud speaker and project this onto my local kingdom hall.
Good discussion I'm no longer religious but I enjoy and respect your logical and sincere discourses Unfortunately most witnesses won't know about Montana as many Australian witnesses do not know about the royal Commission. Most will not research but maybe just one.
Excellent video Eric!
Very nice reasoning, keep them coming.
Help! I can't find his term "Judicial Committee" anywhere in any Bible. Hmmmm I did see where it says: "DO NOT go beyond what is written" and "Do not put your trust in men."
Very powerful.
Curious...if a JW victim goes to the authorities with a complaint of sexual abuse by a JW elder or whatever, do the authorities go right after that elder or do they go through a process involving the watchtower/kingdom hall?
i cannt believe this is happpening
I can
Deuteronomy 22: 25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
Also Jws believe the law was nailed to the stake with Jesus, so they should not be following mosaic law anyway.
10:39 when I heard the JW not reporting the child sex abuses, this is my first reaction, “why don’t they obey the Bible?”
Well said and very deep
Food for thought 🧐
Well said
Excellent!!
They are still subjecting all JW under the old covenant laws instead of the new covenant Yahuah gave through Yahushua. So sad. Is this showing love as Yahusuah instructed? No!
We need short videos to explain the legal process so we can press forward-thank you!
Hahaha, only five thumbs down? I guess Morris is at the liquor store, Lett's looking in the mirror and young Marky is still trying to figure out the overlapping generation thing.
When those use the scripture in Romans, I respond with, “How many times was Paul arrested?” Context is lost with many.
My sisters are like that, if you say anything negative, they reject it, no matter the proof, Satan made them all up and he has control over you without proof, I know Satan is working hard to destroy all our faith, and he’s using the watchtower as his true religion and it sure seemed like the truth, he did a good job, but some of us woke up through prayer to help us open our eyes and see them for what they truly ate