A few things to clarify/add: - The reason I know how many "pages" the emails are is because I copied them into a word document. - I forgot to explain how much he flattered me. He'd regularly say things about how he was so impressed with me, how I was so mature, special, unique, etc., and just generally how much he admired and liked me. - Here is a great video to check out about this topic by Kat Blaque. She shares her story while providing commentary and current political context: th-cam.com/video/3SJjElNPwyw/w-d-xo.html
I always tell my students, if someone starts gushing about how "mature" they are, RUN!! My spouse sent me this post that read these kind of people are able to do what they do, because they treat kids and teens like people, which is a rarity for them, ESPECIALLY in fundamentalist environments. I don't like that I'm able to speedrun earning a kid's trust that way. Which is why I'm quick to say the maturity thing. But also, if this kindness (without the abuse, obviously) were a little more common, maybe we can weed out the assholes more, but I digress. I'm sorry about what happened to you, and I'm glad you were able to get out before things got worse.
Haven’t watched the video yet but I’m curious where this point goes. I always thought complimenting people was good, so where do you draw the line if you’re really just trying to say genuine compliments? It doesn’t make sense to never compliment anyone who is underage, because honest compliments (not flattery) are important. And I know “mature” is bad when it’s said in certain obviously creepy contexts, but I also know that a LOT of normal, non-pedo people called me mature when I was a kid and they definitely meant “you’re calm and introspective” (and sometimes “it’s okay that you’re not popular because being smart is more important in the long run”), not “you’re ‘mature’ for your age so that means you should let me do inappropriate things to you”. So in my experience calling kids and teens mature is a normal thing and I would have rejected some genuine people who helped me a lot if I had been told that anyone who calls you mature is a pedo. Is it something you will just know from the context? If the groomer is a good actor, how would you know? Full grown adults end up in abusive relationships because they fall for grooming when the groomer is a good actor, so how can vulnerable kids tell the difference?
Thank you for being willing to share your story. Your willingness to be vulnerable and authentic is so validating for those of us who have had similar experiences.
So true. I coach a sport, and we're required to take TONS of SafeSport training about how to spot grooming behaviors in our fellow coaches. However, there's next to nothing available to the children to help them identify when they or their friends are being groomed. Very little change is ever going to come from telling adults what they already know. Instead, children need to be educated on what to be wary of in the same way that we educate them about "stranger danger." /rant over
I was groomed by a nurse at a psychiatric hospital. I kept trying to tell people something was wrong. Months later, my therapist listened and told me it was abuse. When he tried to contact me again, I reported him. He is no longer a nurse.
Weird. Happened to me too. Actually a bunch of us. Place I went is finally shut down now. Weird thing is the woman who did it recently committed suicide. It’s weird seeing all these sad messages honoring her memory…all the while knowing she was a child abuser in life.
Sometimes groomers live in your own home. Like in my case. My dad openned our doors to his cousin, who was about 20 years older than me, when he came here and had nowhere to stay. I was a lonely 16 year old kid with low self-esteem, and this man started giving me attention and saying things that made me feel special, and I became addicted to the feeling... So much so that even after it escalated to SA (happened only once) I hoping to get some time alone with him so he could keep telling me that I was beautiful and that he thinks about me a lot. My dad caught wind of something going on, but instead of confronting him about it, he confonted *me. Which I only recently came to realize was such bullsh*t. I don't know if he ever confronted the creep. Even if he did, I definitely did not feel like my dad was on my side. Even though I know in my head that I was a victim, and that it wasn't my fault, I still feel shame. Thank you for making this video. It made me feel less alone, and less ashamed.
completely normal for kids to seek positive attention from adults. there's nothing weird or embarrassing about even enthusiastic participation on yr part. the whole reason statutory rape is a thing is that the normal standard of consent doesn't apply because it's so normal to engage in what would be consent behaviors in adults.
As a parent of a trans kid. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I believe they call us pdfiles and groomers because they are covering for people in the religious community. I'm sorry for what you went through. Sending lots of love.
@@africansister literally not sharing personal info on my child online like that. Aside from the fact they are trans, because it relates to the topic and this content creator. I hope you can understand why I would be so protective of them, especially right now. That information is not needed for the public. Thank you. Namaste
@@lisamcdonald2877 so this is the major misconception. We aren't even talking about surgery. That's not a thing for minors. That's propaganda not based in facts. So let's start there. Second, therapy is obviously amazing for trans kids. They absolutely need to be talking to professionals about this. But the current 400+ bills that have aimed at the trans community, especially youth are targeting gender affirming care, which includes therapy. So the alt right is taking those therapist away from trans kids that need them and in certain states they are making it a felony to provide therapy for gender identity issues. If you don't want kids making mistakes due to their gender identity, quit supporting these bills. They are literally prohibiting the thing you are advocating for. Also, if you aren't a parent of a trans kid, aren't trans yourself and don't know a trans person. Meet one before forming such strong opinions on what you think is going on or what you think these kids need. This frankly is no one's business at the end of the day. This is between our family and our medical team. ( Which consists of a therapist and pediatrician- not surgeons)
@@lisamcdonald2877 so this is the major misconception. We aren't even talking about surgery. That's not a thing for minors. That's propaganda not based in facts. So let's start there. Second, therapy is obviously amazing for trans kids. They absolutely need to be talking to professionals about this. But the current 400+ bills that have aimed at the trans community, especially youth are targeting gender affirming care, which includes therapy. So the alt right is taking those therapist away from trans kids that need them and in certain states they are making it a felony to provide therapy for gender identity issues. If you don't want kids making mistakes due to their gender identity, quit supporting these bills. They are literally prohibiting the thing you are advocating for. Also, if you aren't a parent of a trans kid, aren't trans yourself and don't know a trans person. Meet one before forming such strong opinions on what you think is going on or what you think these kids need. This frankly is no one's business at the end of the day. This is between our family and our medical team. ( Which consists of a therapist and pediatrician- not surgeons)
So much of this sounds like my situation. It hurts so bad. You are so lucky it didnt turn sexual. I was groomed into basically a sex slave. Im in therapy now. You are so strong to share this. Thank you for all your content. You are helping thousands of young girls.
I don't think she meant that's she's lucky just this happened to her but that it's pretty clear from this mans behavior that it could easily have went that way, just that it's good that didn't happen like it usually does with these type of people.
Oh. I was groomed by a teacher. I’m kind of having an “a-ha” moment watching this video. I’ve always known that he was inappropriate with me (no SA or physical abuse) but I’ve never put the word “grooming” to it. Just … the things young people have to go through … especially girls/people assigned female at birth. It’s insane. It’s disgusting. Everyone deserves safety.
I’m so sorry that you were put in the position of having to meditate your parents abusive relationship at such a young age. I also grew up evangelical and I very much had to do what I could to maintain emotional equilibrium for my abusive family system when I was a kid and it did a lot of damage to me. On the other hand, now that I’m an adult, I feel like there’s nothing life could throw at me that I can’t handle. I’m so proud of all of us out here doing the hard work and living our truth.
Oh geez, I completely relate to this! I would’ve missed it at the time, too. I think parents do their children a disservice by sheltering them (“keeping them young”, as you said), especially girls. I was SO NAIVE and trusting well into my 20s, and found myself in harm’s way like this several times as a result. I’m glad you were able to release the shame around this situation - it was never about you. ❤
As a lifelong homeschooled 18 year old, I'm afraid of people like him showing up in my life. I've already experienced little bits and traces of creepiness from various men and I really hope things don't escalate.
Don't be afraid to say no. Have boundaries, and try to avoid making impulsive decisions. I think it's healthy to have a support group of people who know what you have been through to talk it over with. Maybe also a therapist if you can manage to find someone
By just being aware of the risks and educated on this, you are protecting yourself. If at 18 you can see how creepy it is when older people tell younger people how "mature" they are in an attempt to develop a relationship with them, then you're already like 3 steps ahead. 90% of the battle is just seeing through all the bullshit. The rest is just about knowing how to stand up for yourself and knowing who to go to to talk when you don't feel safe. And even if you date people your own age, I suggest not dating anyone seriously until you are done with your schooling and settled into a career. I'm not saying don't date at all. But if you find "the one", then they should be more than happy waiting to get serious until after you've reached independence. This is a good way to protect yourself from people that might try to trap you in an abusive relationship. Because that can happen no matter your age, or any age gap.
You being aware of your vulnerability seems like a good start. Maybe some therapy can help to make you more resistant to predators and help you set your boundaries.
Everyone has really good points here but no one's mentioned that you can't really avoid predators. No matter your race, religion, sexual identity, or anything at all you cannot avoid creepy people. So not only making sure you have good boundaries but make sure you can spot these creeps before they can spot your vulnerabilities.
Yeah it's a special kind of terrifying to come to the realization that you were groomed as a kid, and if 1 or 2 things had gone differently the groomer would have gotten what they were after. Glad you're doing better with this trauma
I don't really know what to say about this, beyond like thank you for sharing this, Elly - this is an incredibly important topic. Being bi and trans, I'm so sick and tired of hearing fundies claiming my existence is grooming children when fundies themselves are frequently the ones doing it. 🤦♀️
I am non binary and pan and also an ex fundie. I really appreciate your channel. I had an event at 20(a naive 20 much like you) where a man tried to meet up with me from a Christian website. He was then exposed as a child exploiter and possible adult trafficker. This brought back memories of that.
Your strength is immense. Thank you for sharing this with us. And may Mr. Jones' shirts always have an itchy tag that he can't remove no matter how hard he tries.
Ellie, you honor us by sharing your story. Thank you for being so candid. I'm very, very thankful it didn't escalate any further. Also- as a counselor in training, EMDR ROCKS and I'm so glad you're seeing benefits ❤️🕊
My biggest work right now is getting out of my own way and going with my gut. I’m so glad this was cathartic. We were raised in a culture that taught us our instincts were evil, and now my brain and my body has to trust that maybe I do know what will be healing to me. Leaning in is hard but it has paid off for me at least and I’m thankful you took the opportunity to share.❤
I was told I was melodramatic so many times as a teenager I inadvertently wound up internalizing abuse as an adult. There's so many ways you can wind up teaching a kid to destruct.
It honestly sounds like he was experienced at this and knew what he was doing. It's one thing for an older person to be a bit immature and not have healthy boundaries with young people (which is also bad.) But to shower you with attention and compliments, send you messages late at night, and not tell his wife that he was talking to you until it came out by accident?? So beyond gross. He had an opportunity to be a positive presence in your life, along with his wife and family. Instead, he made you into a secret, kept you lonely, and bailed on you when you needed support. 💔 I'm so sorry that happened to you, and I'm glad you're looking at it with new eyes. It's situations like this that make it so hard to trust people. We should be able to seek support from our community when our family is struggling. But there is always the fear that someone could take advantage of us when we're vulnerable.
This man was unaware of normal boundaries of dealing with a distressed teen, probably because of his own lack of knowledge of psychology. He knew that the time he was spending on you was wrong but was enjoying the interaction and was just going for it. He was loving the fact he could be a hero and in his twisted mind was flattered by your attention. If you hadn't called, he probably would've gotten braver and braver. Sick.
I so appreciate that you chose to share this with us- and demonstrate so well that yes, we can be “of age” but still be groomed. I loved to see your smile when you said- wow, I feel better! I could see in that moment… what in our fundie culture would have been called “shining bright for the Lord” or “being released of a spiritual burden” that you truly felt better. I’m so glad you chose to share with us, that you took a leap of trust. Not an easy story to tell, friend. I feel bad for little Elly. I’m really sorry that this happened to you, and that your family life was essentially used as an “in” to a grown ass man to find an angle of approach. Thanks again, friend. We appreciate you and all your work to bring this content. 💙
It occured to me pretty recently that my relationship with my friends older brother/my youth leader/teacher (it was a small community) when I was in middle and high school may have been grooming. I'm still processing it. It started when I was about 13-ish and lasted until I was 17. He is 10 years older than me. He would text me late at night nearly every night. He swore that he would always be there for me and I told him all kinds of things about myself and my abusive family. He also shared his feelings and insecurities with me a lot. There were times when he was flirtatious. He complimented my personality and my appearance. Calling me cool and cute, etc. I didn't know if that was normal or not. When he got engaged, it abruptly stopped. He didn't respond anymore. He acted like it never happened, even though it went on for years, daily. I felt abandoned. I feel a little conflicted because he filled a role I needed at the time. I would have felt even more alone with out him. In some ways, he helped me process what was happening to me and gave me an outlet to express myself. At the same time, I see that our relationship was inappropriate and contributed to my abandonment issues. To add complication, he officiated my brother's wedding in September 😂
This is why, as a homeschool mom, I've been teaching my children, since around age 6, what manipulation is and looks like, and how to recognize manipulation in ANYONE in their lives. Even myself (I told them, what if i lost my mind one day and wanted to harm you or your siblings? ) and that it is sooooo important to teach our children that they have to use their judgment, and discernment. And " if it feels bad In their heart, it's time to part" Yes I homeachool, yes I sort of "shelter" them...but I DO explain how good AND bad the world can be. So that while growing up, they can have the tools they need to protect themselves when mom n dad aren't around.
It’s really ironic because my initial reason why I went to therapy was because of trauma I had from a guy older than me as well…then finding much more beyond the spectrum than just dealing with symptoms of PTSD from that unfortunate event. I’m glad you felt ready to finally tel your story, thank you for sharing :)
Proud of you discussing this difficult topic & being open about what happened to you. Thank you for sharing with us & helping to destigmatize this situation to other victims ❤
I was groomed too and had a relationship with an older man for 5 years. I wasn’t able to see what this relationship really was. I was 18 too. I feel you and I send you a big hug. Healing from grooming is long but so much worth it. ❤
I'm only 11 minutes in and my husband is giving me this extremely suspicious look due to the number of times I've already said "that's weird" and "that's creepy".
thank you SO much for this video! I knew my own stuff would be triggered, so I waited 2 weeks till I felt ready to watch it. now that I have, I too feel lighter and relieved! at 40, I developed a relationship with a priest, 40 years older than me. I thought he was completely safe to love, and initially the relationship was intensely gratifying for me, as he seemed to be everything the men in my fundy past weren't (broad-minded, non-judgemental, and politically progressive). but it wasn't too many months into this relationship that he began to give me PAGES and PAGES (which soon became chapters and chapters) of an autobiography he was suddenly inspired to write. being a pleaser, I obligingly read everything (at the cost of my own work). he never clarified whether he was formally asking for an edit, so I ended up doing editing of his book for free (which became two books by the time I was done with the project)! the relationship went from initially me feeling seen, to being all about me 'seeing' and affirming and witnessing HIS life. he emailed me many times a week, and wanted FAR more contact than what I would have chosen. long story short, it took me 4 years to extricate myself from this relationship, and by the end I was completely exhausted and depleted. getting out was one of the hardest things I've ever done, and when I wrote that final email, I knew I had broken through something deep within myself. five years later, I am grateful for how this was the relationship that catalyzed me to learn about narcissism, something I poured myself into studying for many months. once I had the language and knowledge, I could see the pattern everywhere in my life! so if there is still any part of you judging yourself for getting into this relationship at age 18, I hope it gives you comfort to know that I, at age 40, having taught university classes on these subjects, and already having done a LOT of personal healing, still found myself in an emotionally abusive/ inappropriate/ spousification/ enmeshed/ narcissist: codependent relationship! I don't know if 'grooming' would be the word for it, but certainly the elements of favoritism, lavishing of gifts and attention, inappropriate and intimate sharing, and expecting me to be a witness of his entire life, fit with the description you have offered! (so yeah, maybe it was 'grooming' even if it stayed on an emotional level and was never going to go beyond this)? today I'm happy to say that I no longer have any narcissist: codependent relationships in my life. this last one helped me break the pattern, and for that, I will be forever grateful to my higher self 'soul contract' with this complex and very human man (in the position of god's representative here on earth)!
Good to see a video from you again. The church really sets girls up to be taken advantage of like this. I hate everything about it and I hate that this happened to you but I'm glad you're in a place of recovery.
It breaks my heart to hear your story, and you aren't the first youtuber i've followed who has looked back at a valued "spiritual mentor" relationship and realized that it was grooming. Thank you for sharing this.
The way you describe going to an adult for help with your overwhelming home life, only to be treated like a journal and offered prayers...but no meaningful intervention....that's my own experience too. It's why I struggle to this day with seeking help from anyone, especially after being gas-lit by medical professionals for years. I don't trust most of the 'helpers' anymore, and I feel so alone in life. I'm bitter and angry.
It's especially so important to talk about these "gray area" scenarios where the survivor is "technically legal" (18 y.o.) . Also SO important to consider the facts that, as you explain, you had been controlled and infantilized by evangelicalism, basically primed for being groomed even "as an adult" (of only 18 very sheltered and controlled years). All those excuses for this disgusting predatory behavior must be rejected and debunked loudly and emphatically.
Wow, what a horrifying story. Thank you so much for sharing this. Terrible how the young and vulnerable are made to feel shame and guilt when it's the abuser's fault. 💜
This must have been such a difficult video to collate, record and edit. Thank you for your courage to set out how this came about and developed. Sending love and support to you.
Elly, thank you so much for sharing your experience. I come from a somewhat similar situation (fundie homeschooling), and so many of your videos resonate with me. It is so easy for adults in a small, hierarchical community to take advantage of vulnerable kids and teens. It's why predators thrive in those environments. When I was at my lowest, a friend's mom - bizarre as this sounds - manipulated me into doing work for her by promising to listen to me talk, allow me to cry in front of her, and hold me while I cried. I did the work, but she never had time to let me express myself. It sounds so weird, but I was so desperate for anything that resembled emotional support that that proposed transaction never even seemed odd or exploitative to me. I'm grateful no one tried to get more out of me than some free labor. I was so lonely I would never had seen the warning signs. Imo, it's not a matter of being unintelligent (though being kept ignorant is certainly a factor); it's a matter of being emotionally starved. When you're starving, you'll eat rancid food, regardless of the danger. Your videos continue to be a source of inspiration and encouragement to me. I wish you all the best. ❤
Oh my gosh! You are so strong to speak about this. So many memories come back to me. Thank you for sharing so we know we are not crazy to remember these things.
It's an emotional affair this guy had on his wife with someone his daughter's age. Definite leverage of a power imbalance and seeking of his own psychological needs being met.
I’m realizing, I think, how common these very confusing and inappropriate relationships with adults/ older adults (always someone in power with a vulnerable individual) are for us who grew up in rough home environments and lots of trauma. We must be around the same age. I’m 33. And I’m in a horrible horrible situation that I almost can’t believe happened, again, with an actual therapist. We were both lesbians though it was an emotional affair mostly and so much other complicated crap. From 3 and a half years. And I’m severely disabled. She specialized in working with chronically and terminally Ill folks. She made me all these big beautiful promises about being my person and being there for me and how she wasn’t going anywhere. She was my emergency contact at all the hospitals. She was so coercive. And I knew better. Heck, we bonded over confusing and intense relationships with older women. And I’d spent most of my adult and sick life (got very sick in college) quite isolated. Especially after something like this happened with a home health nurse 12 years ago. But whenever I’d try to exert boundaries she’d manipulate me and tell me she did all this stuff for other patients or it became a whole thing about how resistive I was. Covid sure didn’t help but even through it I kept making friends and then losing them because of her. And then a year ago I hit some huge problems in the place I was living. I was losing it emotionally and mentally maybe from the pandemic but a huge part of it was her and that she had me so convinced I was this truly messed up toxic person and was lucky to even have her and even she found me so difficult. Always said if my own parents didn’t want me who would’ve ever love me and in the same way, it was like well if I’m too much for my therapist I’m clearly too broken for humanity. Just really awful stuff and I was having such severe trauma reactions I was ready to give up the complex medical treatments keeping me alive and go in hospice and die. Heck I kept hoping she’d be better then. I sort of knew how bad it was but at that point felt like this was it. She was going to be the one person who really knew me and was there to hear my story and be with me when I died and remember me after. So when she exploded everything in the end, was abusing drugs, totally dismissing me and what a crisis my housing situation and physical and mental health were and then dumped me very suddenly (and through a friend who had come back into my life) my entire world unwound even worse. I’ve been homeless the last year displaced to another state. Lost all my doctors after months in medical hospitals. So much stuff. So much more trauma. My medical specifics have complicated all of it too. Can’t stay in a shelter because of them and also can’t get more intensive mental health care because of it (can’t be inpatient or such dependent on 24/7 IV infusions because obviously in a place that won’t allow shoelaces an IV line..). Anyway. I share this to let you know not only is it not your fault but you weren’t unique in being an adult at the time. I mentioned the power dynamic above and all. What’s wild is no one has reported this therapist of mine yet despite me clearly being wildly messed up over it and sharing so much about all the wildly inappropriate stuff she did and arguably as a severely disabled adult I’m a vulnerable adult by legal definitions so mandated reporters weren’t even doing their jobs. And a lot of people in the osych community keep trying to come to her defense at least until I drop a number of obviously not ok details (in the end she was abusing opiates prescribed to her sick spouse and admitted to me she couldn’t even remember the previous day when she’d seen a full caseload of clients. My god…) It’s wild how willing to look the other way the world is. Or there’s this screwy obsession with imagined abusers but the real abusers are so often these respected people in these positions that bring them close to vulnerable people. Or people who are in helping positions- clergy, health care providers, therapists… im sure the queer dynamic in my situation also played a role. And that I was absolutely just about out of my mind in trauma and grief so easier to make me the crazy one when literally I had sought this therapist out not because I had any particular mental health issues (something she herself would even attest to. Though I am autistic.) but because I had moved to a new place I so wanted to be and was struggling to meet people and get my healthcare better esthablished and I was hoping for help communicating with doctors and just improving my quality of life with a really difficult and life limiting disease. And dealing with medical trauma and the reality of dying young. Grooming isn’t just for little kids. And some of us who were groomed and abused as kids end up falling into repeating patterns of it. I have. Sounds like in a sense so have you. Like even if this was your one and only grooming experience, you say yourself how much the domestic abuse in your family was a huge contributor to it. It’s notable that YK therapist and I bonded over similar backgrounds with our mothers and seemed to both remind one another of our mothers. It’s a real psychological fact, I’ve heard mentioned by Bessel Van Der Kolk who wrote The Body Keeps the Score that traumatized people tend to attract more trauma. And I don’t know what stories you’re groomer told you but I’m going to just hazard a guess he also had an abuse history of some kind or difficult family growing up. I’ve noticed a lot of these types (most of my groomers didn’t SA me either btw but like what happened with this therapist. It’s still abuse and this last round for me has actually been even more painful and damaging and life destroying than the actual R and SA I experienced as a child) tend to come from trauma and I think a lot of their behavior comes from it too. So all I know is it’s on us to break the cycle. To do our work and do whatever we can to heal and be better, healthier people. Anyway, wrote you a whole novel. I’m so glad you shared your story. I’ve watched quite a few of your other videos and im not really from a fundamentalist background (I’m actually Jewish) but I think I like and relate to a lot of these stories because I relate to the trauma of it and I like hearing about other people healing and freeing themselves. And I’ve clearly got a long way to go on my own journey. But thank you. I can’t begin to express what it means hearing your story as im still trying so hard to heal from and process what happened to me.
Yikes. By far the longest TH-cam comment I’ve ever left. Your video obviously hit really clsoe to home for me. I actually want to thank you especially for calling it what it was and sharing your story including your age. Because hey I was 28-32 for mine. And I’m still a trauma bonded (people misuse this phrase a lot but think Stockholm syndrome) mess over it. We need to be looking out for vulnerable people of all ages and there needs to be so much mroe support and understanding. And traumatized people need to do their work. Because I do think so much of this, especially when it gets so murky or isn’t clearly s*xual (not sure how TH-cam is about comments so trying to watch my language) is coming from the abusers own unresolved trauma and mental health issues. I’ve always hated the claim that abusers were abused themselves especially when it comes to SA and I’m not implying that’s always true. I do think it’s possible my therapist and your Mr. Jones didn’t even fully understand what they were doing while they did it. Both clearly did show signs of realizing on some level it was wrong but seemed unable to help themselves. It’s messy that way, I think. So yeah enough of my rambling. But healing is so, so important. I’m proud of you for reaching a place and finding the strength to share your story.
Thank you for sharing this. It was so messed up for that grown man to take advantage of you in your time of need and not even report the abuse or try to get help for you and your family.
Sending you so, so, so much love. Thank you for sharing your experience with us, I hope it brings comfort and clarity to those who have dealt with similar situations x
There are a lot of great male role models out there but it is men like this who keep us on guard. It is so sad that someone would take advantage this way, but you are so brave to share this.
I relate very strongly to much of what you said in your story and thank you so much for sharing it. Grooming can leave such a heavy psychological scar -- especially for those of us who are highly sensative people. I am grateful that it has gotten more validation in recent years. (Though, I also am very frustrated with how the term is currently being abused and misapplied to things which are NOT grooming.) It so funny that I saw your post today because I dreamed about my groomer (a high school teacher) last night. Amazing that he still holds such power and I'm a middle aged woman now! I thinkone of the most lingering things is when we never really know the extent of their motivations. Unlike you, my groomer did express his romantic feelings, but like you things never extended to a physical transgression. However, I still pick apart in my mind whether he was just manipulating me or whether his feelings were valid and misplaced. I'm mature enough now to know that it doesn't matter -- he was in the wrong either way. But knowing for sure would bring some added closure.
This is so clearly still so heavy for you. The pauses, the confusion, it's like it's all still there. I have never been so glad to know that you have gotten out.
My heart hurts for young Elly. Thank you for sharing your story, and I am so glad that it has helped you to do so. I can relate in my own way to what you said about being the mediator in your family when you were young, and feeling like it was your responsibility to save/fix the family and your parents’ relationship. It is so easy for a young person in that situation to be groomed and taken advantage of. I could say more, but ultimately it just boils down to this: Thank you for sharing. You are helping many more people than you know. You matter, and your story matters.
I had a man who was over my ministry (sign language translation) try to groom me, but thankfully he was very uncouth and horribly uncharming. He was also like 60 years old. He told me that he had sexual fantasies about me on the front pew of our church right before I went up to translate. Super gross. Luckily I just responded with "And what do you want me to do with the information?" And he said 🥺😩 "Forgive me. " (so gross) and I said "Look I gotta translate." He must've thought that I would've responded differently. This man used to take me and my sister out to eat. He used to buy me clothes or give me random 100$ bills, but I am not a very personable or warm person unless I like you. He made no progress with me, thankfully, but he also did not have the manipulation skills Mr. Jones had. 😅😅😅 Whenever he gave me something, my attitude about it was -- I teach all of these ASL classes free and constantly translate at this church, I deserve compensation occasionally. I did not feel in debt to this msn at all, and he sucked at emotionally manipulation. 😅😅😅 I'm glad he was bad at it though 😬
I was raised the same as you: as female, to look after my younger sisters, incredibly naive, in a conservative evangelical cult (though imo the whole movement is cultish). It really does make you vulnerable to so much abuse, even regular relationships are damaging because of the unawareness of boundaries and rights and I'd say the whole culture ALREADY grooms afab people to be dependent on and subservient to men and to actually worship them tbh and see marriage as salvation from their awfully oppressive lives without even realising.
If you ask me, abuse is a feature of "purity culture," not a bug. Treating other humans as a fetishized type of property is just gross. I recently saw "Women Talking" and was crying cathartic tears of rage.
You were never at fault beautiful soul. Don’t feel ashamed for looking for a supportive adult to help you out of your situation. I’ve been through similar, where luckily I didn’t get SA’d either. Unfortunately he told me to delete messages, because he had incited me to send inappropriate pictures. I’m so proud of you for speaking out. You’re a strong woman, and you do only realise as an adult. I’m glad you’re getting therapy and educating others in these issues. You’re very brave, so thank you- from myself, survivors and current victims. 💖
I was also groomed at the age of 18 by a man at my church. Purity culture really affected me. I remember myself feeling unsafe around him all the time, and trying to wear long sleeves and long pants whenever I was around him because he always looked at me lustfully. And when the grooming reached the stage of SA, I was repenting daily for my sins, although I am sure that in retrospect, that I had always had a good intention, but purity culture made me guilt trapping myself. And that constant guilt made me have chronic back pain. Now Whenever I explore sexually now I would evoke that chronic back pain again. Im still a Christian but I believe God is above purity culture and instead he just want us to be happy and safe at heart, body, souls and mind. ❤
You have so much courage Elly. Your childhood experience was horrific. You were parentified at such a young age. You were brainwashed and abused. Yet here you are today bringing so much awareness to who knows how many people! You’re amazing. Keep doing you, because you are spectacular ✨
@@africansister I’ve thought about your comment a lot since you posted it. He wasn’t doing anything illegal, he was just being a manipulative creep. Telling anyone would make me look weird and whiny, and result in nothing bad for him. I don’t live near him and he has since divorced out of the family. It seems useless. Also, the idea of talking to anyone about it feels traumatic… which sounds ridiculous to say/write, but whatever, that’s how it feels. So, I’m not going to talk about it.
I can’t handle this today but it’s on my save later and I’m here to comment because I know this is important and I’m gonna mute this and let it play today and I’m gonna come back and listen when I can stand it. I see you. I believe you. I’m proud of you. I’m doing what I can manage to do, to support you. 💜
Also- just reiterating this part of the context, l is that they grew up not knowing what consent was, so our society says 18 can legally consent, personal consent cannot be given if it is not known.
Sure being 18 means you can consent… but the implication is that you’re consenting to do things with people in the 18-21 age range. Someone old enough to be your friend’s dad is a whole different story.
I am so glad you "messed up"! All the harm and disappointment of his distance is better than whatever stuff he was trying to bring about. I can relate to similar feelings of blaming myself for being young and trusting :(
I'm so sorry that happened, my dad was a manipulative misogynist who treated me like a child and kept me extremely sheltered besides when it came to raising my siblings for him so I totally know what you mean by being 18 but not a full adult with adult knowledge. It made it easier for him to abuse me emotionally and physically and I also latched on to any father figure I could. I can only imagine the pain you felt when Mr Jones stopped talking to you and that one "healthy" feeling connection seems gone. I'm sure you know this but I just want to remind you and myself that it's not our faults and we were just naive children. I'm thankful that he didn't get more time to prey on you and I'm glad you could grow into a healthy adult despite ur father. I'm still trying myself, I'm 26 and still feel like a scared little kid a lot of the time. Thank you for sharing!!
🔑🔒My sister once advised me that when you keep your fears locked up inside you, they grow larger. When you tell someone, they lose their power. Kudos to you for unlocking that door.
It means a lot that you shared this; I was groomed as a child and young teen in a homeschooled Christian household and again when in high school and it really is a perspective-shattering experience to understand not just the things that made you vulnerable at the time like abuse and trauma, but the way that that had been manipulated by another person and how those experiences shape your viewpoints. Seeing someone else’s story, even if many aspects are different, is relieving in its own way; by nature of circumstances these things are often hidden and pushed away, hard to talk about, and it’s not like it’s a fun topic to bring up at parties. It can feel insanely vulnerable to even acknowledge it and terrifying to face the reality of the implications of grooming and related abuse, and so to see someone who understands and is willing to talk about their experiences, while saddening to see someone else effected by it, is almost a breath of fresh air on a wound often kept concealed, if that makes sense. Overall, thank you for sharing and I’m glad talking about it could give you some release. It sounds like it was hard to work up to talking about it and I’m glad you are able to put that out there and are surrounded by better people in your life now.
You are so eloquent and thoughtful and respectful in your storytelling and recounts of just f*cked up sh*t that has been done to you and that you have walked through with so much grace and courage, i might add. Thank you for sharing this story; I know it was painful to remember. And I am so grateful for your channel!
Thank you for your vulnerability in sharing your experiences with all of us! I was groomed as a pre teen/teenager by a member of my family and in tuning into your experience, I've been able to tune back into my own and unpack it for what it truly was, and to let go of the guilt in thinking (and being told) it was my fault. Your channel is amazing and I thank you for your voice. ❤
I am so glad you shared this and you feel lighter. I am glad you are in a place right now where you realize you were not responsible for this. I am sure others who experienced this kind of trauma will benefit from your courageous voice. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for sharing your story ❤️. You are so brave for doing so, and my heart breaks for the situations your 18 year old self were put in. I totally agree that fundamentalism places teenagers in such a vulnerable position by sheltering them so much from "the world" that we don't see when we are being abused or know how to stand up for ourselves. I have definitely experienced similar situations in my teen years as a fundie. I'm so sorry you had to go through this and I hope you know you are not to blame in any way!
You're an incredibly strong, intelligent, and resilient person. Thank you so much for sharing. I've learned so much from you and I've talked about your videos in my own therapy sessions!
It takes so much courage to share things like this, and it's easy to take for granted. This topic is close to home in many ways for me, and it is so helpful and comforting to see how strong you are to share and work through it, and still with so much kindness and compassion. Thank you!
I was groomed as a teenager by my therapist. I saw him from ages 15-25. He was a real, licensed professional counselor, and also a big, arrogant “man of God”. He tried to rip my family apart, and tried to get me to not marry my husband. He never did anything illegal, but there was a lot of sexualized verbal abuse (or verbal sexual abuse). Also, financial explanation and absolute spiritual torment. I reported him and the board didn’t find him guilty of anything!
First things first, you sharing your story about being groomed takes a tremendous amount of courage to do. I was groomed by a pastor’s son when I was only 17 years old and he was in his 20’s. He flattered me with praise, gave me little gifts, would pick me out of the other girls at a homeschooling family’s house where we would do colonial dances, and acted offended when I didn’t tell people we were boyfriend and girlfriend. He would fly into jealous fits over texts and I was the one who had to apologize to him. 😮 the weirdest thing was that it was his youngest brother who warned me: “Caleb isn’t who he appears to be.” His warning turned out to be right. After I attempted to break up with him, he bought a small house in the town where I lived and followed me around to different social events. My dad ended up sending his dad a lengthy message explaining what he did to me (dry humping.. yes, like a dog) and other things. This predator finally took a hint and sold his house and finally left me alone permanently. I felt the need to tell a local homeschooling family I knew about him and I later found out that he sent their 14 year old daughter a love letter and then they cut all conversations with him. He’s still in Iowa where I am sure he’s trying to look like an unassuming young man who wants love.. thanks again for listening
TW: SA Thank you for sharing, Elly! My youth pastor groomed and assaulted a student several years after I graduated from his youth group. Thankfully he never bothered me, but he was the first adult I felt connected to (my parents were both neglectful) and I know that he could have groomed me so easily if he had tried. I truly looked up to him and didn't think he could do wrong. It so easy for fundie Christian men to groom young people because the young persons first thought is, "obviously nothing is wrong with this relationship or Mr. Jones wouldn't be intiating it." We were taught to trust them so completely. I'm so sorry you went through this, thank you again for sharing! ❤
i really missed you videos, ellie. your voice is so calm and soothing and i enjoy listening to your experiences as i’m someone who did not grow up fundie. i’m glad you were able to find the strength to tell your story and hope that making this video will help you with your healing. much love
I feel I ought to mention - this is not about the grooming, but about the healing - that the podcast Skeptic's Guide To The Universe made me aware in the last few months that EMDR appears to be pseudoscience. That doesn't mean you're a liar. It doesn't mean your therapist was unethical (not everyone's aware of the paucity of evidence) And it doesn't mean you didn't get better as a result of her treatment of you; just that the headline EMDR element was unlikely to have been a necessary factor in that. Apparently, therapy with desensitisation rituals are equally effective with or without eye movement. And honestly, when the Skeptics were discussing it, I was disquieted, because I remembered how startling my own experience with it had been, feeling (I am and was then a naturalistic, atheist, science nerd) like "whoa! He stole the bad feelings with witchcraft!" kind of thing. But here's the particularly noteworthy thing, in retrospect: I filed that treatment under "EMDR", but... the eye movement hurt, so he was actually tapping my hand instead. So actually, that experience doesn't fully contradict the research that suggests that it's the {focus on the trigger; in a safe space; with a mild distractor of any sort; for several minutes} that actually works the "magic". I'm not trying to throw shade in this comment (you wouldn't deserve it after yet another touching, honest and educational video), but wanted to bring this to you precisely because you're an educator, and you care about the truth, and you don't want to muddy the waters with even a probably-harmless bit of pseudoscience which is used by many well-meaning but misinformed practitioners. Or maybe you'll look up the research, decide I'm wrong, and we'll have to become archnemeses, ultimately battling to the death atop a volcano... ...that sounds like a lot of work, but either way :-)
Can't wait to listen when I have the time been really missing your content and this was a gift even if it's on such a hard topic your voice+viewpoints always bring me comfort.
Thank you for sharing, Elly. Unfortunately my own fundie family has had similar experiences with creepy older men. I'm so sorry this happened to you, but you have come so far and your strength is admirable. It feels better knowing my family wasn't the only target of these people. Makes me feel less crazy.
Seriously, congratulations on both surviving and processing your trauma. It's a huge step and I'm happy for you that you were able to make it, keep working on yourself and never stop improving!
When I saw you uploaded this I had to save for later, because I knew it was going to be a heavy one for me. I went through the same thing from the ages of 14-16. Didn’t realize it was wrong until I was 29. Same reaction as you, flooded with ptsd symptoms. I’ve moved past the grief enough to know it’s absolutely not my fault. But hearing you share your experience was incredibly validating. ❤
I can relate a little bit. I was also sheltered excessively and was very naive. Well, there was this preacher at a camp meeting we went to every summer that I bonded with. Also his wife. But my dad died when I was 10, and I was actively looking for someone who could fill the gap in my life. And he seemed to fit the bill. Strong but gentle, yada yada. Anyway, he never pursued me, but he did talk to me the way he would talk to his daughter if he’d had one (he had boys). Eventually he split with his ministry partner, and I stopped calling him. A few years later, it came out that he had been molesting his office manager and my friend (same person). She was an adult, only a couple years older than me. I realized that I would have gone to work for his ministry when I was 19, and was I could very well have been her. I think back now, and I see how he controlled and in some ways abused his wife, and it makes me sick that I ever idealized him or looked at him as a father figure. Because he justified the abuse of my friend by telling her this was what fathers did with daughters (she had the same view of him), and she didn’t even know better until she heard descriptions of abuse in her mid twenties. 🤢🤮
The fact that you told another adult AND his wife about the danger in your household and neither one of them did anything, is SO disgusting to me. Im so sorry this happened to you.
The same thing happened to me when I was 12-13. I don't know if my guy was Christian. It was an internet predator who used to say a lot of the same things. I'm glad you're sharing your story. It's a tragic one, but the wonderful person you've become is beautiful -- reborn from the ashes like a rising phoenix.
I'm so sorry you were victimized, and so glad that you got away from that. This isn't the first time that I've noticed that the way fundamentalists raise their kids leaves them more susceptible to grooming. That whole thing where the boy is supposed to build a relationship with a girl's father and spend a lot of alone time with him before he courts her? That sets my teeth on edge. Sometimes it feels like fundie parents have been groomed in a way. It almost feels like some leaders are giving parents advice to leave their children vulnerable. I'd hate to think something that sinister is happening, but I notice that kind of abuse is rampant in fundie communities.
Kinda like the things that former actress Jennette McCurdy went through during her childhood years especially during her days on Nickelodeon and the shit that that pos Dan Schneider as well as her abusive mother put her through. She even wrote about it in her autobiography entitled I’m Glad My Mom Died. Nobody deserves to go through that kind of treatment. This is exactly why I hate religious fundamentalism as well as conservatism. I cannot believe that anybody would think these things are okay
Thanks for sharing. I also mediated during my parents divorce, it sucks! I hope you can always be kind to your inner 18 year old because I would have interpreted things the same way at that age.
Omg. Thank you so much for sharing this. This is such good insight into these situations. It can be so confusing. And it’s so hard to explain because nothing they can be quoted as saying is nefarious on its own. It’s the sum of the entire situation that must be considered. I’m so glad you see this for what it is now and are sharing your experience.
Thank you for sharing your story, I'm so sorry that happened to you 😞 In the beginning of the video, talking about technically being an adult, but also still being young, I understand completely. Looking back at 18, I was 100% groomed by a 30 year old, and didn't even realize it. I was also in a very vulnerable place in my life, and I longed for someone to notice me. I remember the first time he kissed me, I legitimately cried. I never kissed a guy before and I felt such shame that this was my first kiss. Thank god we didn't go further than kissing, but just thinking back on it makes me feel repulsed. I held such shame for years and years that I had done something so terribly wrong. I do hold some responsibility for being selfish and wanting the attention, but I was a vulnerable, young, naive 18 year old girl, and he was a grown 30 year old who had authority over me. I was able to pull myself out of that weird relationship after a few months which I am grateful for. So many men take advantage of young girls, and it's so gross, but we now have the language to know what it is.
At 18 you're legally an adult, but nowadays 18 is more the beginning of 'emerging adulthood' which is kind of a transition from adolescence to adulthood... I was definitely not mature enough at that age either to be considered an adult. So totally with you there. So sorry this happened... I hope this is a rarity but who knows
I have really great difficulty with this apparent growing tendency to infantilise youth, and for them to be kept in a state of dependence and heavily curtailed autonomy for even longer, especially in America, it seems (not that my own society, the UK, is exemplary in this regard). I want society to travel in the opposite direction, the direction of raising the young in an environment that is conducive to them being able to live as autonomously and independently as possible from as young an age as possible, an environment that nurtures the development of their ability to nurture themselves from early on. That, from the sounds of it, is the diametric opposite of what happened with this vlogger growing up. They probably were raised in an environment that stunted the development of many of the pre-requisite skills for being able to function as a rounded, autonomous, responsible adult, with the consequence that, at 18, they were still very naive, emotionally immature and vulnerable to manipulation and exploitation.
@@davidparry5310I don’t agree acknowledging that there’s a transitional period between adolescence and adulthood is infantilization. I mean, it’s emerging ADULThood, not prolonged adolescence. If anything, recognizing emerging adults as their own category grants them more autonomy and better age-specific milestones. No one is saying that emerging adults shouldn’t be able to date, marry, drive, own homes, or otherwise. Legally, they’re able to do those things just fine. But all emerging adulthood, as a category, does is acknowledge that there will be a discrepancy in life experience, knowledge, and understanding of identity between the average 18 year old and the average 30 year old. It gives emerging adults more time to explore themselves and their options before they are expected to have the same establishment as older adults. After all, you don’t wake up with a suit, tie, and briefcase the day you turn 18. There are categories for middle adulthood and elder adulthood. Why shouldn’t the youngest adults have their own? Why shouldn’t the youngest adults have their own space to talk about the struggles related to their age? As a given society develops, full-fledged social adulthood tends to be pushed back further, as the youth take longer to educate and establish themselves into adults. It’s why “emerging adulthood” appears to be such a western concept-some of the most developed nations in the world are western. In societies that push for youth to be adults as soon as possible, development is less progressed. There are less opportunities for education and establishment. This also creates circumstances that are conducive to manipulation, abuse, and even excess deaths of young people. For one-how young should an adult be? If you’re going for as young as humanly possible, then a child should become an adult when they become biological adults. What is a biological adult? Biological adulthood refers specifically to the advanced development of reproductive organs (whether they actually function or not). Well…the general age range for pubescence around the world is 9-14 years old. Should a 9 year old have her first child nine months after her first period? Why not? She’s biologically an adult. What about a 10 year old boy? Should he be able to join the military because, as evidenced by his growth of body hair, he is now an adult? Should 9-14 year olds be expected to work full-time jobs? They used to here in the US. But there’s no room for school if you’re working 12 hour shifts. Conundrums like this are the reason that there are massive discrepancies in social adulthood and biological adulthood, and why they seem to increase within given societies.
@@ayannaperry7405 Well, I'm not in favour of prescribing a specific age at which people ought to have their first child, though I will say that I find it impossible to envisage a scenario where it is not horribly problematic for all sorts of reasons for someone to have their first child at 9, even in a society where social relations between younger and older people are conducted on much more egalitarian terms than is the case in almost any society presently in existence. I'm also not in favour of anybody, child or otherwise, having to sell their labour power. You're talking not about societies that are designed to foster people being able to live relatively autonomous and independent lives from a young age, but about societies where they are acculturated into patriarchal gender roles from a very early age in the most coercive fashion imaginable, and/or where their labour power is brutally exploited for profit from a young age due to the global shift in industrial production away from 'First World' nations to parts of the world where that sort of thing is not merely tolerated but positively enabled. Both being shoehorned into patriarchal gender roles and being subject to the wage relation run counter to people being able to live as autonomously and independently as possible, and this is doubly true if it happens to children. The state of affairs that I want to see realised entails not only the young being raised in an environment where there is much more of a concerted effort by adults to impart to them what might be termed basic living skills (e.g. cooking, cleaning), but also one in which they're much better enabled than they are now to develop certain aptitudes that will be necessary for them to be able to function optimally as autonomous, independent adults, from critical thought to interpersonal skills. Ending the wage relation, and thus the state of affairs where you'll have a couple with a child or children having to work 60hrs/week just to make ends meet, would mean that those responsible for the care of the young would be in a much better position to help them develop these skills, especially given a switch to communal forms of child-rearing, which would mean that the labour involved in this would be distributed among the adults in a given community. Education would also be radically overhauled, with schooling being conducted on a voluntary basis, and no longer being about creating obedient wage labourers and state subjects, but rather about fostering the development of critical thought, creativity and so on, and allowing pupils/students to develop knowledge, skills and understanding in the areas that interest them. Pupils/students freed from the burden of homework (which is part of how education at present seeks to acculturate the young into the responsibilities that will be placed upon them as wage labourers) will find more time outside of school for other pursuits, including the further development of the skills that will be necessary for them to function as autonomous adults. The foregoing having been said, there is a potential danger of undue pressure being placed upon young people to develop the skills needed to become independent at a pace that is too fast, and that obviously would have to be guarded against. I know of no reason, however, why, having been raised in the kind of environment that I've described, young people could not reach the point where they're able to live independently at an average age of 15 or 16, not through having been railroaded into it, but as a natural outgrowth of having been raised in an environment that is so much more conducive to their development in this respect. There is, after all, nothing naturally pre-ordained about the idea that people should spend the first 18+ years of their lives in a state of total dependence. That's very much a historically contingent state of affairs. As for your point about how no one's saying that 18-year-olds shouldn't be allowed to marry, date, drive, etc, etc, people might not be saying that _yet,_ but I worry that that's the trajectory. I fear that once you start saying to people that 'well ackshually, you're not really an adult even when you're 18', you're on a road that I personally find to be deeply undesirable.
@@davidparry5310 I still don’t see why using the term “emerging adulthood,” even in that ideal society, wouldn’t be useful. If, hypothetically, the average age of maturity would be 15-16, then emerging adulthood would shift back about 2-3 years. The transitional period between learning how to be an adult in a safe environment (the community) and actually existing as a functioning adult would still exist. Again, the term “emerging adulthood” doesn’t actually take adulthood away from anyone. Adult is part of the label on the tin. All it does is just acknowledge that a given person is freshly an adult in a social sense, and still needs time to establish to become a fully fledged ‘adult-adult.’ It’s the same reason that people that are biologically adults at 9, 10, 11, and 12 years old aren’t treated as social adults. It’s the same reason that, I would imagine, most people wouldn’t be happiest with a 9-year-old girl trying to raise a child. Young people have a lot to learn. Time helps them learn. In any case, the term “emerging adulthood” would be helpful as a natural societal safeguard against forcing youth to mature too fast. It would also help relieve the expectations that would be put on, in this case, 15-16 year olds’ shoulders to find their identity, find their niche in the community, decide what they want to do, and where they want to go. Even if they spent their whole life toying with those ideas, those are still enormous decisions to make. They would still be able to do what they like-drive, marry, or otherwise. They would just be given lenience the same way college-aged people are now (emerging adults). I feel like that concern you have is a bit of a slippery slope. Acknowledging that young adults are young doesn’t take away their right to be independent. No one is lobbying for 18 year olds to not be able to drive, marry, or own a home. No one is lobbying to nullify the driver’s licenses of 16 year olds because they are socially considered teenagers. If anything, the problem right now is that people want children to be thrown in with adults far too early. For example, child marriage is a hotly debated topic in the US, because there are many established adults that want to fight for their right to marry people that are 12 or even younger. People that are 18+ are indeed adults in this current system. Giving them the sub-label “emerging adults” doesn’t take that adulthood away. It just gives it more details.
Well thank goodness you accidentally derailed any future plans he may have had by making those phone calls. I always took the unexpected attention and “grown up” conversations from/with adult men to be a compliment on my maturity or spiritual growth instead of allowing myself to process how inappropriate or creepy those men were. Christian men were supposed to be safe.
Elly, thank you as always for sharing with us. Your channel has helped me so much personally. I had a similar-ish experience to this. When I was a junior in high school, I overheard one of my teachers speaking about pornography and masturbation with a peer of mine (who was also a friend at the time). I did not like what I was hearing and felt a need to interfere, so I mentioned how I found those things tempting as well. Somehow this lead to me and my teacher having weekly lunch meetings in his classroom with the door closed. I want to emphasize that no S.A. happened. Like you, I did not have access to therapy, so these became liberating sessions for me to (somewhat freely) discuss my internal issues. We also started having conversations over Facebook, which was definitely against the school protocol he was supposed to follow as a teacher. After not speaking to him for a few years, he randomly reached out to me. I believe I had blocked him on the primary social media we interacted on, so he found me on another one. Within the week prior, it became public (as in through our local news media) that another teacher from the school whom I would interact with in and out of school was arrested for various S.A. charges. For the teacher I had been communicating with, this shook him to the core and he seemed panicked about it. He mentioned that he felt he could see himself in the arrested teacher's shoes, which was a major red flag to me. A friend of mine, who was a few grades below me, mentioned he had heard that the initial teacher had made some really odd statements about how the female students were "tempting" him when they wore their skirts too high or other fashion choices. I seriously debated reporting him to the police for a week before dropping it and deciding there wasn't anything definitive that they could investigate him for.
I'm subscribed to you and this video never popped up on my home page, which is at least the second time that has happened to me with your videos. :/ I'm glad that sharing this seems to have let you feel some distance and closure about such a troubling series of memories!
Ellie, if you have Patreon I will be glad to contribute. I love your videos. Although my situation was different (my family were not Christian), listening to your stories helps with my healing ❤
Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and educate others, and for always being so thoughtful when talking about others, it shows real emotional intelligence. I hope you'll be safe and will manage to keep living and traveling wherever you wish to ❤
A few things to clarify/add:
- The reason I know how many "pages" the emails are is because I copied them into a word document.
- I forgot to explain how much he flattered me. He'd regularly say things about how he was so impressed with me, how I was so mature, special, unique, etc., and just generally how much he admired and liked me.
- Here is a great video to check out about this topic by Kat Blaque. She shares her story while providing commentary and current political context: th-cam.com/video/3SJjElNPwyw/w-d-xo.html
I always tell my students, if someone starts gushing about how "mature" they are, RUN!!
My spouse sent me this post that read these kind of people are able to do what they do, because they treat kids and teens like people, which is a rarity for them, ESPECIALLY in fundamentalist environments.
I don't like that I'm able to speedrun earning a kid's trust that way. Which is why I'm quick to say the maturity thing. But also, if this kindness (without the abuse, obviously) were a little more common, maybe we can weed out the assholes more, but I digress.
I'm sorry about what happened to you, and I'm glad you were able to get out before things got worse.
Haven’t watched the video yet but I’m curious where this point goes. I always thought complimenting people was good, so where do you draw the line if you’re really just trying to say genuine compliments? It doesn’t make sense to never compliment anyone who is underage, because honest compliments (not flattery) are important.
And I know “mature” is bad when it’s said in certain obviously creepy contexts, but I also know that a LOT of normal, non-pedo people called me mature when I was a kid and they definitely meant “you’re calm and introspective” (and sometimes “it’s okay that you’re not popular because being smart is more important in the long run”), not “you’re ‘mature’ for your age so that means you should let me do inappropriate things to you”. So in my experience calling kids and teens mature is a normal thing and I would have rejected some genuine people who helped me a lot if I had been told that anyone who calls you mature is a pedo. Is it something you will just know from the context? If the groomer is a good actor, how would you know? Full grown adults end up in abusive relationships because they fall for grooming when the groomer is a good actor, so how can vulnerable kids tell the difference?
^Okay, that “hears about your problems but never offers any help, just thoughts and prayers” is a pretty clear sign.
How do you like EMDR? Why did you go with that instead of other forms of therapy? I'm interested myself.
Thank you for being willing to share your story. Your willingness to be vulnerable and authentic is so validating for those of us who have had similar experiences.
More people speaking up about what it’s like to *actually* be groomed is SO important right now.
This.
Sadly so true.
YES
So true. I coach a sport, and we're required to take TONS of SafeSport training about how to spot grooming behaviors in our fellow coaches. However, there's next to nothing available to the children to help them identify when they or their friends are being groomed.
Very little change is ever going to come from telling adults what they already know. Instead, children need to be educated on what to be wary of in the same way that we educate them about "stranger danger."
/rant over
Yes! I thought it was just a secret sexual relationship with an older, maybe married person. Stay safe out there!
I was groomed by a nurse at a psychiatric hospital. I kept trying to tell people something was wrong. Months later, my therapist listened and told me it was abuse. When he tried to contact me again, I reported him. He is no longer a nurse.
Good. No one like that should be able to have authority or care for others. So scary, but I'm glad you had a resolution
Weird. Happened to me too. Actually a bunch of us. Place I went is finally shut down now. Weird thing is the woman who did it recently committed suicide. It’s weird seeing all these sad messages honoring her memory…all the while knowing she was a child abuser in life.
That's horrifying! I hope you're doing alright. Good to hear the nurse got what was coming to him.
Glory to God
@@h0rriphic No one gets to be a Saint in their casket when they were a terrible person in their life.
Sometimes groomers live in your own home. Like in my case.
My dad openned our doors to his cousin, who was about 20 years older than me, when he came here and had nowhere to stay.
I was a lonely 16 year old kid with low self-esteem, and this man started giving me attention and saying things that made me feel special, and I became addicted to the feeling... So much so that even after it escalated to SA (happened only once) I hoping to get some time alone with him so he could keep telling me that I was beautiful and that he thinks about me a lot.
My dad caught wind of something going on, but instead of confronting him about it, he confonted *me. Which I only recently came to realize was such bullsh*t. I don't know if he ever confronted the creep. Even if he did, I definitely did not feel like my dad was on my side.
Even though I know in my head that I was a victim, and that it wasn't my fault, I still feel shame.
Thank you for making this video. It made me feel less alone, and less ashamed.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I hope you find some way to heal.
@@nickbell8353 thank you ❤️
completely normal for kids to seek positive attention from adults. there's nothing weird or embarrassing about even enthusiastic participation on yr part. the whole reason statutory rape is a thing is that the normal standard of consent doesn't apply because it's so normal to engage in what would be consent behaviors in adults.
As a parent of a trans kid. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I believe they call us pdfiles and groomers because they are covering for people in the religious community. I'm sorry for what you went through. Sending lots of love.
How old is your kid if u don't mind.
@@africansister literally not sharing personal info on my child online like that. Aside from the fact they are trans, because it relates to the topic and this content creator.
I hope you can understand why I would be so protective of them, especially right now. That information is not needed for the public. Thank you. Namaste
I wish you and your child the best. I hope that your child takes time to work with a therapist before taking any irreversible medical steps.
@@lisamcdonald2877 so this is the major misconception. We aren't even talking about surgery. That's not a thing for minors. That's propaganda not based in facts. So let's start there. Second, therapy is obviously amazing for trans kids. They absolutely need to be talking to professionals about this. But the current 400+ bills that have aimed at the trans community, especially youth are targeting gender affirming care, which includes therapy. So the alt right is taking those therapist away from trans kids that need them and in certain states they are making it a felony to provide therapy for gender identity issues. If you don't want kids making mistakes due to their gender identity, quit supporting these bills. They are literally prohibiting the thing you are advocating for. Also, if you aren't a parent of a trans kid, aren't trans yourself and don't know a trans person. Meet one before forming such strong opinions on what you think is going on or what you think these kids need. This frankly is no one's business at the end of the day. This is between our family and our medical team. ( Which consists of a therapist and pediatrician- not surgeons)
@@lisamcdonald2877 so this is the major misconception. We aren't even talking about surgery. That's not a thing for minors. That's propaganda not based in facts. So let's start there. Second, therapy is obviously amazing for trans kids. They absolutely need to be talking to professionals about this. But the current 400+ bills that have aimed at the trans community, especially youth are targeting gender affirming care, which includes therapy. So the alt right is taking those therapist away from trans kids that need them and in certain states they are making it a felony to provide therapy for gender identity issues. If you don't want kids making mistakes due to their gender identity, quit supporting these bills. They are literally prohibiting the thing you are advocating for. Also, if you aren't a parent of a trans kid, aren't trans yourself and don't know a trans person. Meet one before forming such strong opinions on what you think is going on or what you think these kids need. This frankly is no one's business at the end of the day. This is between our family and our medical team. ( Which consists of a therapist and pediatrician- not surgeons)
So much of this sounds like my situation. It hurts so bad.
You are so lucky it didnt turn sexual. I was groomed into basically a sex slave. Im in therapy now. You are so strong to share this. Thank you for all your content. You are helping thousands of young girls.
She isn’t lucky.
I don't think she meant that's she's lucky just this happened to her but that it's pretty clear from this mans behavior that it could easily have went that way, just that it's good that didn't happen like it usually does with these type of people.
Oh. I was groomed by a teacher. I’m kind of having an “a-ha” moment watching this video. I’ve always known that he was inappropriate with me (no SA or physical abuse) but I’ve never put the word “grooming” to it.
Just … the things young people have to go through … especially girls/people assigned female at birth. It’s insane. It’s disgusting. Everyone deserves safety.
I’m so sorry that you were put in the position of having to meditate your parents abusive relationship at such a young age. I also grew up evangelical and I very much had to do what I could to maintain emotional equilibrium for my abusive family system when I was a kid and it did a lot of damage to me. On the other hand, now that I’m an adult, I feel like there’s nothing life could throw at me that I can’t handle. I’m so proud of all of us out here doing the hard work and living our truth.
Oh geez, I completely relate to this! I would’ve missed it at the time, too. I think parents do their children a disservice by sheltering them (“keeping them young”, as you said), especially girls. I was SO NAIVE and trusting well into my 20s, and found myself in harm’s way like this several times as a result. I’m glad you were able to release the shame around this situation - it was never about you. ❤
As a lifelong homeschooled 18 year old, I'm afraid of people like him showing up in my life. I've already experienced little bits and traces of creepiness from various men and I really hope things don't escalate.
Don't be afraid to say no. Have boundaries, and try to avoid making impulsive decisions. I think it's healthy to have a support group of people who know what you have been through to talk it over with. Maybe also a therapist if you can manage to find someone
By just being aware of the risks and educated on this, you are protecting yourself. If at 18 you can see how creepy it is when older people tell younger people how "mature" they are in an attempt to develop a relationship with them, then you're already like 3 steps ahead. 90% of the battle is just seeing through all the bullshit. The rest is just about knowing how to stand up for yourself and knowing who to go to to talk when you don't feel safe. And even if you date people your own age, I suggest not dating anyone seriously until you are done with your schooling and settled into a career. I'm not saying don't date at all. But if you find "the one", then they should be more than happy waiting to get serious until after you've reached independence. This is a good way to protect yourself from people that might try to trap you in an abusive relationship. Because that can happen no matter your age, or any age gap.
You being aware of your vulnerability seems like a good start. Maybe some therapy can help to make you more resistant to predators and help you set your boundaries.
Everyone has really good points here but no one's mentioned that you can't really avoid predators. No matter your race, religion, sexual identity, or anything at all you cannot avoid creepy people. So not only making sure you have good boundaries but make sure you can spot these creeps before they can spot your vulnerabilities.
@@aazhieExcellent advice.
Yeah it's a special kind of terrifying to come to the realization that you were groomed as a kid, and if 1 or 2 things had gone differently the groomer would have gotten what they were after. Glad you're doing better with this trauma
I don't really know what to say about this, beyond like thank you for sharing this, Elly - this is an incredibly important topic. Being bi and trans, I'm so sick and tired of hearing fundies claiming my existence is grooming children when fundies themselves are frequently the ones doing it.
🤦♀️
I am non binary and pan and also an ex fundie. I really appreciate your channel. I had an event at 20(a naive 20 much like you) where a man tried to meet up with me from a Christian website. He was then exposed as a child exploiter and possible adult trafficker. This brought back memories of that.
@Iljan Štolcević non-binary means they don’t identify as a boy or girl
Your strength is immense. Thank you for sharing this with us. And may Mr. Jones' shirts always have an itchy tag that he can't remove no matter how hard he tries.
Hell yeah
& a really bad wedgie, Erectile dysfunction & irritable bowel syndrome.
Make a shirt with only itchy tags
I also hope that he steps on a lego and then when the pain starts to go away, he steps on another lego forever on repeat.
Ellie, you honor us by sharing your story. Thank you for being so candid. I'm very, very thankful it didn't escalate any further. Also- as a counselor in training, EMDR ROCKS and I'm so glad you're seeing benefits ❤️🕊
Take care of yourself friend.
My biggest work right now is getting out of my own way and going with my gut. I’m so glad this was cathartic. We were raised in a culture that taught us our instincts were evil, and now my brain and my body has to trust that maybe I do know what will be healing to me. Leaning in is hard but it has paid off for me at least and I’m thankful you took the opportunity to share.❤
I was told I was melodramatic so many times as a teenager I inadvertently wound up internalizing abuse as an adult. There's so many ways you can wind up teaching a kid to destruct.
It honestly sounds like he was experienced at this and knew what he was doing. It's one thing for an older person to be a bit immature and not have healthy boundaries with young people (which is also bad.) But to shower you with attention and compliments, send you messages late at night, and not tell his wife that he was talking to you until it came out by accident?? So beyond gross. He had an opportunity to be a positive presence in your life, along with his wife and family. Instead, he made you into a secret, kept you lonely, and bailed on you when you needed support. 💔 I'm so sorry that happened to you, and I'm glad you're looking at it with new eyes.
It's situations like this that make it so hard to trust people. We should be able to seek support from our community when our family is struggling. But there is always the fear that someone could take advantage of us when we're vulnerable.
This man was unaware of normal boundaries of dealing with a distressed teen, probably because of his own lack of knowledge of psychology. He knew that the time he was spending on you was wrong but was enjoying the interaction and was just going for it. He was loving the fact he could be a hero and in his twisted mind was flattered by your attention. If you hadn't called, he probably would've gotten braver and braver. Sick.
I so appreciate that you chose to share this with us- and demonstrate so well that yes, we can be “of age” but still be groomed. I loved to see your smile when you said- wow, I feel better! I could see in that moment… what in our fundie culture would have been called “shining bright for the Lord” or “being released of a spiritual burden” that you truly felt better. I’m so glad you chose to share with us, that you took a leap of trust. Not an easy story to tell, friend. I feel bad for little Elly. I’m really sorry that this happened to you, and that your family life was essentially used as an “in” to a grown ass man to find an angle of approach. Thanks again, friend. We appreciate you and all your work to bring this content. 💙
It occured to me pretty recently that my relationship with my friends older brother/my youth leader/teacher (it was a small community) when I was in middle and high school may have been grooming. I'm still processing it. It started when I was about 13-ish and lasted until I was 17. He is 10 years older than me. He would text me late at night nearly every night. He swore that he would always be there for me and I told him all kinds of things about myself and my abusive family. He also shared his feelings and insecurities with me a lot. There were times when he was flirtatious. He complimented my personality and my appearance. Calling me cool and cute, etc. I didn't know if that was normal or not. When he got engaged, it abruptly stopped. He didn't respond anymore. He acted like it never happened, even though it went on for years, daily. I felt abandoned. I feel a little conflicted because he filled a role I needed at the time. I would have felt even more alone with out him. In some ways, he helped me process what was happening to me and gave me an outlet to express myself. At the same time, I see that our relationship was inappropriate and contributed to my abandonment issues.
To add complication, he officiated my brother's wedding in September 😂
This is why, as a homeschool mom, I've been teaching my children, since around age 6, what manipulation is and looks like, and how to recognize manipulation in ANYONE in their lives. Even myself (I told them, what if i lost my mind one day and wanted to harm you or your siblings? ) and that it is sooooo important to teach our children that they have to use their judgment, and discernment. And " if it feels bad In their heart, it's time to part"
Yes I homeachool, yes I sort of "shelter" them...but I DO explain how good AND bad the world can be. So that while growing up, they can have the tools they need to protect themselves when mom n dad aren't around.
It’s really ironic because my initial reason why I went to therapy was because of trauma I had from a guy older than me as well…then finding much more beyond the spectrum than just dealing with symptoms of PTSD from that unfortunate event. I’m glad you felt ready to finally tel your story, thank you for sharing :)
Proud of you discussing this difficult topic & being open about what happened to you. Thank you for sharing with us & helping to destigmatize this situation to other victims ❤
I was groomed too and had a relationship with an older man for 5 years. I wasn’t able to see what this relationship really was. I was 18 too. I feel you and I send you a big hug. Healing from grooming is long but so much worth it. ❤
I'm only 11 minutes in and my husband is giving me this extremely suspicious look due to the number of times I've already said "that's weird" and "that's creepy".
thank you SO much for this video! I knew my own stuff would be triggered, so I waited 2 weeks till I felt ready to watch it. now that I have, I too feel lighter and relieved!
at 40, I developed a relationship with a priest, 40 years older than me. I thought he was completely safe to love, and initially the relationship was intensely gratifying for me, as he seemed to be everything the men in my fundy past weren't (broad-minded, non-judgemental, and politically progressive).
but it wasn't too many months into this relationship that he began to give me PAGES and PAGES (which soon became chapters and chapters) of an autobiography he was suddenly inspired to write. being a pleaser, I obligingly read everything (at the cost of my own work). he never clarified whether he was formally asking for an edit, so I ended up doing editing of his book for free (which became two books by the time I was done with the project)!
the relationship went from initially me feeling seen, to being all about me 'seeing' and affirming and witnessing HIS life. he emailed me many times a week, and wanted FAR more contact than what I would have chosen.
long story short, it took me 4 years to extricate myself from this relationship, and by the end I was completely exhausted and depleted. getting out was one of the hardest things I've ever done, and when I wrote that final email, I knew I had broken through something deep within myself.
five years later, I am grateful for how this was the relationship that catalyzed me to learn about narcissism, something I poured myself into studying for many months. once I had the language and knowledge, I could see the pattern everywhere in my life!
so if there is still any part of you judging yourself for getting into this relationship at age 18, I hope it gives you comfort to know that I, at age 40, having taught university classes on these subjects, and already having done a LOT of personal healing, still found myself in an emotionally abusive/ inappropriate/ spousification/ enmeshed/ narcissist: codependent relationship!
I don't know if 'grooming' would be the word for it, but certainly the elements of favoritism, lavishing of gifts and attention, inappropriate and intimate sharing, and expecting me to be a witness of his entire life, fit with the description you have offered! (so yeah, maybe it was 'grooming' even if it stayed on an emotional level and was never going to go beyond this)?
today I'm happy to say that I no longer have any narcissist: codependent relationships in my life. this last one helped me break the pattern, and for that, I will be forever grateful to my higher self 'soul contract' with this complex and very human man (in the position of god's representative here on earth)!
Good to see a video from you again. The church really sets girls up to be taken advantage of like this. I hate everything about it and I hate that this happened to you but I'm glad you're in a place of recovery.
Sadly most religions are sexist towards anyone female or who they think is female
It breaks my heart to hear your story, and you aren't the first youtuber i've followed who has looked back at a valued "spiritual mentor" relationship and realized that it was grooming. Thank you for sharing this.
A movie with a subtle theme about the consequences of grooming is The Perks of Being a Wallflower. This movie has helped me a lot.
The way you describe going to an adult for help with your overwhelming home life, only to be treated like a journal and offered prayers...but no meaningful intervention....that's my own experience too. It's why I struggle to this day with seeking help from anyone, especially after being gas-lit by medical professionals for years. I don't trust most of the 'helpers' anymore, and I feel so alone in life. I'm bitter and angry.
Me too
It's especially so important to talk about these "gray area" scenarios where the survivor is "technically legal" (18 y.o.) . Also SO important to consider the facts that, as you explain, you had been controlled and infantilized by evangelicalism, basically primed for being groomed even "as an adult" (of only 18 very sheltered and controlled years). All those excuses for this disgusting predatory behavior must be rejected and debunked loudly and emphatically.
Wow, what a horrifying story. Thank you so much for sharing this. Terrible how the young and vulnerable are made to feel shame and guilt when it's the abuser's fault. 💜
I was groomed when I was over 30. My self esteem was non existent at that time, and he was a superior at my job.
This must have been such a difficult video to collate, record and edit. Thank you for your courage to set out how this came about and developed.
Sending love and support to you.
Elly, thank you so much for sharing your experience. I come from a somewhat similar situation (fundie homeschooling), and so many of your videos resonate with me. It is so easy for adults in a small, hierarchical community to take advantage of vulnerable kids and teens. It's why predators thrive in those environments.
When I was at my lowest, a friend's mom - bizarre as this sounds - manipulated me into doing work for her by promising to listen to me talk, allow me to cry in front of her, and hold me while I cried. I did the work, but she never had time to let me express myself. It sounds so weird, but I was so desperate for anything that resembled emotional support that that proposed transaction never even seemed odd or exploitative to me. I'm grateful no one tried to get more out of me than some free labor. I was so lonely I would never had seen the warning signs.
Imo, it's not a matter of being unintelligent (though being kept ignorant is certainly a factor); it's a matter of being emotionally starved. When you're starving, you'll eat rancid food, regardless of the danger.
Your videos continue to be a source of inspiration and encouragement to me. I wish you all the best. ❤
"When you're starving you'll eat rancid food". Oof, excellent way to say this.
Oh my gosh! You are so strong to speak about this. So many memories come back to me. Thank you for sharing so we know we are not crazy to remember these things.
It's an emotional affair this guy had on his wife with someone his daughter's age. Definite leverage of a power imbalance and seeking of his own psychological needs being met.
I’m realizing, I think, how common these very confusing and inappropriate relationships with adults/ older adults (always someone in power with a vulnerable individual) are for us who grew up in rough home environments and lots of trauma. We must be around the same age. I’m 33. And I’m in a horrible horrible situation that I almost can’t believe happened, again, with an actual therapist. We were both lesbians though it was an emotional affair mostly and so much other complicated crap. From 3 and a half years. And I’m severely disabled. She specialized in working with chronically and terminally Ill folks. She made me all these big beautiful promises about being my person and being there for me and how she wasn’t going anywhere. She was my emergency contact at all the hospitals. She was so coercive. And I knew better. Heck, we bonded over confusing and intense relationships with older women. And I’d spent most of my adult and sick life (got very sick in college) quite isolated. Especially after something like this happened with a home health nurse 12 years ago. But whenever I’d try to exert boundaries she’d manipulate me and tell me she did all this stuff for other patients or it became a whole thing about how resistive I was. Covid sure didn’t help but even through it I kept making friends and then losing them because of her. And then a year ago I hit some huge problems in the place I was living. I was losing it emotionally and mentally maybe from the pandemic but a huge part of it was her and that she had me so convinced I was this truly messed up toxic person and was lucky to even have her and even she found me so difficult. Always said if my own parents didn’t want me who would’ve ever love me and in the same way, it was like well if I’m too much for my therapist I’m clearly too broken for humanity.
Just really awful stuff and I was having such severe trauma reactions I was ready to give up the complex medical treatments keeping me alive and go in hospice and die. Heck I kept hoping she’d be better then. I sort of knew how bad it was but at that point felt like this was it. She was going to be the one person who really knew me and was there to hear my story and be with me when I died and remember me after. So when she exploded everything in the end, was abusing drugs, totally dismissing me and what a crisis my housing situation and physical and mental health were and then dumped me very suddenly (and through a friend who had come back into my life) my entire world unwound even worse. I’ve been homeless the last year displaced to another state. Lost all my doctors after months in medical hospitals. So much stuff. So much more trauma. My medical specifics have complicated all of it too. Can’t stay in a shelter because of them and also can’t get more intensive mental health care because of it (can’t be inpatient or such dependent on 24/7 IV infusions because obviously in a place that won’t allow shoelaces an IV line..).
Anyway. I share this to let you know not only is it not your fault but you weren’t unique in being an adult at the time. I mentioned the power dynamic above and all. What’s wild is no one has reported this therapist of mine yet despite me clearly being wildly messed up over it and sharing so much about all the wildly inappropriate stuff she did and arguably as a severely disabled adult I’m a vulnerable adult by legal definitions so mandated reporters weren’t even doing their jobs. And a lot of people in the osych community keep trying to come to her defense at least until I drop a number of obviously not ok details (in the end she was abusing opiates prescribed to her sick spouse and admitted to me she couldn’t even remember the previous day when she’d seen a full caseload of clients. My god…) It’s wild how willing to look the other way the world is. Or there’s this screwy obsession with imagined abusers but the real abusers are so often these respected people in these positions that bring them close to vulnerable people. Or people who are in helping positions- clergy, health care providers, therapists… im sure the queer dynamic in my situation also played a role. And that I was absolutely just about out of my mind in trauma and grief so easier to make me the crazy one when literally I had sought this therapist out not because I had any particular mental health issues (something she herself would even attest to. Though I am autistic.) but because I had moved to a new place I so wanted to be and was struggling to meet people and get my healthcare better esthablished and I was hoping for help communicating with doctors and just improving my quality of life with a really difficult and life limiting disease. And dealing with medical trauma and the reality of dying young.
Grooming isn’t just for little kids. And some of us who were groomed and abused as kids end up falling into repeating patterns of it. I have. Sounds like in a sense so have you. Like even if this was your one and only grooming experience, you say yourself how much the domestic abuse in your family was a huge contributor to it. It’s notable that YK therapist and I bonded over similar backgrounds with our mothers and seemed to both remind one another of our mothers. It’s a real psychological fact, I’ve heard mentioned by Bessel Van Der Kolk who wrote The Body Keeps the Score that traumatized people tend to attract more trauma. And I don’t know what stories you’re groomer told you but I’m going to just hazard a guess he also had an abuse history of some kind or difficult family growing up. I’ve noticed a lot of these types (most of my groomers didn’t SA me either btw but like what happened with this therapist. It’s still abuse and this last round for me has actually been even more painful and damaging and life destroying than the actual R and SA I experienced as a child) tend to come from trauma and I think a lot of their behavior comes from it too. So all I know is it’s on us to break the cycle. To do our work and do whatever we can to heal and be better, healthier people.
Anyway, wrote you a whole novel. I’m so glad you shared your story. I’ve watched quite a few of your other videos and im not really from a fundamentalist background (I’m actually Jewish) but I think I like and relate to a lot of these stories because I relate to the trauma of it and I like hearing about other people healing and freeing themselves. And I’ve clearly got a long way to go on my own journey. But thank you. I can’t begin to express what it means hearing your story as im still trying so hard to heal from and process what happened to me.
Yikes. By far the longest TH-cam comment I’ve ever left. Your video obviously hit really clsoe to home for me. I actually want to thank you especially for calling it what it was and sharing your story including your age. Because hey I was 28-32 for mine. And I’m still a trauma bonded (people misuse this phrase a lot but think Stockholm syndrome) mess over it.
We need to be looking out for vulnerable people of all ages and there needs to be so much mroe support and understanding. And traumatized people need to do their work. Because I do think so much of this, especially when it gets so murky or isn’t clearly s*xual (not sure how TH-cam is about comments so trying to watch my language) is coming from the abusers own unresolved trauma and mental health issues. I’ve always hated the claim that abusers were abused themselves especially when it comes to SA and I’m not implying that’s always true. I do think it’s possible my therapist and your Mr. Jones didn’t even fully understand what they were doing while they did it. Both clearly did show signs of realizing on some level it was wrong but seemed unable to help themselves. It’s messy that way, I think.
So yeah enough of my rambling. But healing is so, so important. I’m proud of you for reaching a place and finding the strength to share your story.
Thank you for sharing this. It was so messed up for that grown man to take advantage of you in your time of need and not even report the abuse or try to get help for you and your family.
Sending you so, so, so much love. Thank you for sharing your experience with us, I hope it brings comfort and clarity to those who have dealt with similar situations x
There are a lot of great male role models out there but it is men like this who keep us on guard. It is so sad that someone would take advantage this way, but you are so brave to share this.
No respectful middle aged married man is trying to have private conversations with any 18 year old girl.
@@h0rriphic the timings of his emails and wanting to be phoned at work are dead giveaways to anyone with more life experience.
@@kellydalstok8900 I'm 22 and I was even like 🚩
I relate very strongly to much of what you said in your story and thank you so much for sharing it. Grooming can leave such a heavy psychological scar -- especially for those of us who are highly sensative people. I am grateful that it has gotten more validation in recent years. (Though, I also am very frustrated with how the term is currently being abused and misapplied to things which are NOT grooming.)
It so funny that I saw your post today because I dreamed about my groomer (a high school teacher) last night. Amazing that he still holds such power and I'm a middle aged woman now! I thinkone of the most lingering things is when we never really know the extent of their motivations. Unlike you, my groomer did express his romantic feelings, but like you things never extended to a physical transgression. However, I still pick apart in my mind whether he was just manipulating me or whether his feelings were valid and misplaced. I'm mature enough now to know that it doesn't matter -- he was in the wrong either way. But knowing for sure would bring some added closure.
I'm sending support and admiration for your bravery and strength. ❤
This is so clearly still so heavy for you. The pauses, the confusion, it's like it's all still there. I have never been so glad to know that you have gotten out.
My heart hurts for young Elly. Thank you for sharing your story, and I am so glad that it has helped you to do so. I can relate in my own way to what you said about being the mediator in your family when you were young, and feeling like it was your responsibility to save/fix the family and your parents’ relationship. It is so easy for a young person in that situation to be groomed and taken advantage of. I could say more, but ultimately it just boils down to this: Thank you for sharing. You are helping many more people than you know. You matter, and your story matters.
I had a man who was over my ministry (sign language translation) try to groom me, but thankfully he was very uncouth and horribly uncharming. He was also like 60 years old. He told me that he had sexual fantasies about me on the front pew of our church right before I went up to translate. Super gross. Luckily I just responded with "And what do you want me to do with the information?" And he said 🥺😩 "Forgive me. " (so gross) and I said "Look I gotta translate." He must've thought that I would've responded differently.
This man used to take me and my sister out to eat. He used to buy me clothes or give me random 100$ bills, but I am not a very personable or warm person unless I like you. He made no progress with me, thankfully, but he also did not have the manipulation skills Mr. Jones had. 😅😅😅 Whenever he gave me something, my attitude about it was -- I teach all of these ASL classes free and constantly translate at this church, I deserve compensation occasionally. I did not feel in debt to this msn at all, and he sucked at emotionally manipulation. 😅😅😅 I'm glad he was bad at it though 😬
I'm amazed at your courage in sharing your experiences.
This gross grooming happens so often in conservative circles.
Too many conservatives out there convincing kids that they need to chop off their dingdongs lol.
I was raised the same as you: as female, to look after my younger sisters, incredibly naive, in a conservative evangelical cult (though imo the whole movement is cultish). It really does make you vulnerable to so much abuse, even regular relationships are damaging because of the unawareness of boundaries and rights and I'd say the whole culture ALREADY grooms afab people to be dependent on and subservient to men and to actually worship them tbh and see marriage as salvation from their awfully oppressive lives without even realising.
If you ask me, abuse is a feature of "purity culture," not a bug. Treating other humans as a fetishized type of property is just gross. I recently saw "Women Talking" and was crying cathartic tears of rage.
You were never at fault beautiful soul. Don’t feel ashamed for looking for a supportive adult to help you out of your situation. I’ve been through similar, where luckily I didn’t get SA’d either. Unfortunately he told me to delete messages, because he had incited me to send inappropriate pictures. I’m so proud of you for speaking out. You’re a strong woman, and you do only realise as an adult. I’m glad you’re getting therapy and educating others in these issues. You’re very brave, so thank you- from myself, survivors and current victims. 💖
I was also groomed at the age of 18 by a man at my church. Purity culture really affected me. I remember myself feeling unsafe around him all the time, and trying to wear long sleeves and long pants whenever I was around him because he always looked at me lustfully. And when the grooming reached the stage of SA, I was repenting daily for my sins, although I am sure that in retrospect, that I had always had a good intention, but purity culture made me guilt trapping myself. And that constant guilt made me have chronic back pain. Now Whenever I explore sexually now I would evoke that chronic back pain again. Im still a Christian but I believe God is above purity culture and instead he just want us to be happy and safe at heart, body, souls and mind. ❤
You have so much courage Elly.
Your childhood experience was horrific. You were parentified at such a young age. You were brainwashed and abused.
Yet here you are today bringing so much awareness to who knows how many people!
You’re amazing. Keep doing you, because you are spectacular ✨
I went through a similar experience, although I was 21/22 and he was (gross) my cousin’s husband. I have never told anyone really. Thank you so much.
Oh u have to tell because if not stop he will carry on doing that to others, think about others
@@africansister I’ve thought about your comment a lot since you posted it. He wasn’t doing anything illegal, he was just being a manipulative creep. Telling anyone would make me look weird and whiny, and result in nothing bad for him. I don’t live near him and he has since divorced out of the family. It seems useless. Also, the idea of talking to anyone about it feels traumatic… which sounds ridiculous to say/write, but whatever, that’s how it feels. So, I’m not going to talk about it.
I can’t handle this today but it’s on my save later and I’m here to comment because I know this is important and I’m gonna mute this and let it play today and I’m gonna come back and listen when I can stand it. I see you. I believe you. I’m proud of you. I’m doing what I can manage to do, to support you. 💜
I will come back, and I will hear you.
I’m so sorry you went through that. Sending solidarity to you!
Being 18 means a person is capable of consent, not that consent is automatic.
Also- just reiterating this part of the context, l is that they grew up not knowing what consent was, so our society says 18 can legally consent, personal consent cannot be given if it is not known.
Sure being 18 means you can consent… but the implication is that you’re consenting to do things with people in the 18-21 age range. Someone old enough to be your friend’s dad is a whole different story.
I am so glad you "messed up"! All the harm and disappointment of his distance is better than whatever stuff he was trying to bring about. I can relate to similar feelings of blaming myself for being young and trusting :(
I'm so sorry that happened, my dad was a manipulative misogynist who treated me like a child and kept me extremely sheltered besides when it came to raising my siblings for him so I totally know what you mean by being 18 but not a full adult with adult knowledge. It made it easier for him to abuse me emotionally and physically and I also latched on to any father figure I could. I can only imagine the pain you felt when Mr Jones stopped talking to you and that one "healthy" feeling connection seems gone. I'm sure you know this but I just want to remind you and myself that it's not our faults and we were just naive children. I'm thankful that he didn't get more time to prey on you and I'm glad you could grow into a healthy adult despite ur father. I'm still trying myself, I'm 26 and still feel like a scared little kid a lot of the time. Thank you for sharing!!
Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience with us! 🌻 We appreciate you! 🌸
🔑🔒My sister once advised me that when you keep your fears locked up inside you, they grow larger. When you tell someone, they lose their power. Kudos to you for unlocking that door.
It means a lot that you shared this; I was groomed as a child and young teen in a homeschooled Christian household and again when in high school and it really is a perspective-shattering experience to understand not just the things that made you vulnerable at the time like abuse and trauma, but the way that that had been manipulated by another person and how those experiences shape your viewpoints.
Seeing someone else’s story, even if many aspects are different, is relieving in its own way; by nature of circumstances these things are often hidden and pushed away, hard to talk about, and it’s not like it’s a fun topic to bring up at parties.
It can feel insanely vulnerable to even acknowledge it and terrifying to face the reality of the implications of grooming and related abuse, and so to see someone who understands and is willing to talk about their experiences, while saddening to see someone else effected by it, is almost a breath of fresh air on a wound often kept concealed, if that makes sense.
Overall, thank you for sharing and I’m glad talking about it could give you some release. It sounds like it was hard to work up to talking about it and I’m glad you are able to put that out there and are surrounded by better people in your life now.
You are so eloquent and thoughtful and respectful in your storytelling and recounts of just f*cked up sh*t that has been done to you and that you have walked through with so much grace and courage, i might add. Thank you for sharing this story; I know it was painful to remember. And I am so grateful for your channel!
Thank you for your authenticity to self
Thank you for your vulnerability in sharing your experiences with all of us! I was groomed as a pre teen/teenager by a member of my family and in tuning into your experience, I've been able to tune back into my own and unpack it for what it truly was, and to let go of the guilt in thinking (and being told) it was my fault. Your channel is amazing and I thank you for your voice. ❤
I am so glad you shared this and you feel lighter. I am glad you are in a place right now where you realize you were not responsible for this. I am sure others who experienced this kind of trauma will benefit from your courageous voice. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for sharing your story ❤️. You are so brave for doing so, and my heart breaks for the situations your 18 year old self were put in. I totally agree that fundamentalism places teenagers in such a vulnerable position by sheltering them so much from "the world" that we don't see when we are being abused or know how to stand up for ourselves. I have definitely experienced similar situations in my teen years as a fundie. I'm so sorry you had to go through this and I hope you know you are not to blame in any way!
You're an incredibly strong, intelligent, and resilient person. Thank you so much for sharing. I've learned so much from you and I've talked about your videos in my own therapy sessions!
It takes so much courage to share things like this, and it's easy to take for granted. This topic is close to home in many ways for me, and it is so helpful and comforting to see how strong you are to share and work through it, and still with so much kindness and compassion. Thank you!
I was groomed as a teenager by my therapist. I saw him from ages 15-25. He was a real, licensed professional counselor, and also a big, arrogant “man of God”. He tried to rip my family apart, and tried to get me to not marry my husband. He never did anything illegal, but there was a lot of sexualized verbal abuse (or verbal sexual abuse). Also, financial explanation and absolute spiritual torment.
I reported him and the board didn’t find him guilty of anything!
First things first, you sharing your story about being groomed takes a tremendous amount of courage to do. I was groomed by a pastor’s son when I was only 17 years old and he was in his 20’s. He flattered me with praise, gave me little gifts, would pick me out of the other girls at a homeschooling family’s house where we would do colonial dances, and acted offended when I didn’t tell people we were boyfriend and girlfriend. He would fly into jealous fits over texts and I was the one who had to apologize to him. 😮 the weirdest thing was that it was his youngest brother who warned me: “Caleb isn’t who he appears to be.” His warning turned out to be right. After I attempted to break up with him, he bought a small house in the town where I lived and followed me around to different social events. My dad ended up sending his dad a lengthy message explaining what he did to me (dry humping.. yes, like a dog) and other things. This predator finally took a hint and sold his house and finally left me alone permanently. I felt the need to tell a local homeschooling family I knew about him and I later found out that he sent their 14 year old daughter a love letter and then they cut all conversations with him. He’s still in Iowa where I am sure he’s trying to look like an unassuming young man who wants love.. thanks again for listening
TW: SA
Thank you for sharing, Elly! My youth pastor groomed and assaulted a student several years after I graduated from his youth group. Thankfully he never bothered me, but he was the first adult I felt connected to (my parents were both neglectful) and I know that he could have groomed me so easily if he had tried. I truly looked up to him and didn't think he could do wrong. It so easy for fundie Christian men to groom young people because the young persons first thought is, "obviously nothing is wrong with this relationship or Mr. Jones wouldn't be intiating it." We were taught to trust them so completely. I'm so sorry you went through this, thank you again for sharing! ❤
i really missed you videos, ellie. your voice is so calm and soothing and i enjoy listening to your experiences as i’m someone who did not grow up fundie. i’m glad you were able to find the strength to tell your story and hope that making this video will help you with your healing. much love
I feel I ought to mention - this is not about the grooming, but about the healing
- that the podcast Skeptic's Guide To The Universe made me aware in the last few months that EMDR appears to be pseudoscience.
That doesn't mean you're a liar.
It doesn't mean your therapist was unethical (not everyone's aware of the paucity of evidence)
And it doesn't mean you didn't get better as a result of her treatment of you; just that the headline EMDR element was unlikely to have been a necessary factor in that.
Apparently, therapy with desensitisation rituals are equally effective with or without eye movement.
And honestly, when the Skeptics were discussing it, I was disquieted, because I remembered how startling my own experience with it had been, feeling (I am and was then a naturalistic, atheist, science nerd) like "whoa! He stole the bad feelings with witchcraft!" kind of thing.
But here's the particularly noteworthy thing, in retrospect: I filed that treatment under "EMDR", but... the eye movement hurt, so he was actually tapping my hand instead. So actually, that experience doesn't fully contradict the research that suggests that it's the {focus on the trigger; in a safe space; with a mild distractor of any sort; for several minutes} that actually works the "magic".
I'm not trying to throw shade in this comment (you wouldn't deserve it after yet another touching, honest and educational video), but wanted to bring this to you precisely because you're an educator, and you care about the truth, and you don't want to muddy the waters with even a probably-harmless bit of pseudoscience which is used by many well-meaning but misinformed practitioners.
Or maybe you'll look up the research, decide I'm wrong, and we'll have to become archnemeses, ultimately battling to the death atop a volcano...
...that sounds like a lot of work, but either way :-)
Thanks for sharing your story. I am so proud of you for doing this. This happened a lot of many of us who were naive 18 yr olds.
I’m so sorry you went through this, you really were caught between a rock and a hard place with no one to turn to. Thanks for sharing your truth ❤
Can't wait to listen when I have the time been really missing your content and this was a gift even if it's on such a hard topic your voice+viewpoints always bring me comfort.
Thank you for sharing, Elly. Unfortunately my own fundie family has had similar experiences with creepy older men. I'm so sorry this happened to you, but you have come so far and your strength is admirable. It feels better knowing my family wasn't the only target of these people. Makes me feel less crazy.
Seriously, congratulations on both surviving and processing your trauma. It's a huge step and I'm happy for you that you were able to make it, keep working on yourself and never stop improving!
When I saw you uploaded this I had to save for later, because I knew it was going to be a heavy one for me.
I went through the same thing from the ages of 14-16. Didn’t realize it was wrong until I was 29. Same reaction as you, flooded with ptsd symptoms. I’ve moved past the grief enough to know it’s absolutely not my fault. But hearing you share your experience was incredibly validating. ❤
Thank you so much for having the courage to tell your story. Maybe some day I’ll be able to tell mine, too.
i just wanted to say thank you for sharing your story. i’m sorry you were put in these positions by MULTIPLE adults who should have protected you.
I can relate a little bit. I was also sheltered excessively and was very naive. Well, there was this preacher at a camp meeting we went to every summer that I bonded with. Also his wife. But my dad died when I was 10, and I was actively looking for someone who could fill the gap in my life. And he seemed to fit the bill. Strong but gentle, yada yada. Anyway, he never pursued me, but he did talk to me the way he would talk to his daughter if he’d had one (he had boys). Eventually he split with his ministry partner, and I stopped calling him.
A few years later, it came out that he had been molesting his office manager and my friend (same person). She was an adult, only a couple years older than me. I realized that I would have gone to work for his ministry when I was 19, and was I could very well have been her. I think back now, and I see how he controlled and in some ways abused his wife, and it makes me sick that I ever idealized him or looked at him as a father figure. Because he justified the abuse of my friend by telling her this was what fathers did with daughters (she had the same view of him), and she didn’t even know better until she heard descriptions of abuse in her mid twenties.
🤢🤮
The fact that you told another adult AND his wife about the danger in your household and neither one of them did anything, is SO disgusting to me. Im so sorry this happened to you.
The same thing happened to me when I was 12-13. I don't know if my guy was Christian. It was an internet predator who used to say a lot of the same things. I'm glad you're sharing your story. It's a tragic one, but the wonderful person you've become is beautiful -- reborn from the ashes like a rising phoenix.
I'm so sorry you were victimized, and so glad that you got away from that. This isn't the first time that I've noticed that the way fundamentalists raise their kids leaves them more susceptible to grooming. That whole thing where the boy is supposed to build a relationship with a girl's father and spend a lot of alone time with him before he courts her? That sets my teeth on edge. Sometimes it feels like fundie parents have been groomed in a way. It almost feels like some leaders are giving parents advice to leave their children vulnerable. I'd hate to think something that sinister is happening, but I notice that kind of abuse is rampant in fundie communities.
Kinda like the things that former actress Jennette McCurdy went through during her childhood years especially during her days on Nickelodeon and the shit that that pos Dan Schneider as well as her abusive mother put her through. She even wrote about it in her autobiography entitled I’m Glad My Mom Died. Nobody deserves to go through that kind of treatment. This is exactly why I hate religious fundamentalism as well as conservatism. I cannot believe that anybody would think these things are okay
Thanks for sharing. I also mediated during my parents divorce, it sucks! I hope you can always be kind to your inner 18 year old because I would have interpreted things the same way at that age.
Omg. Thank you so much for sharing this. This is such good insight into these situations. It can be so confusing.
And it’s so hard to explain because nothing they can be quoted as saying is nefarious on its own. It’s the sum of the entire situation that must be considered.
I’m so glad you see this for what it is now and are sharing your experience.
Wow Elly. You are an inspiration. The people you are freeing with your message. I feel humbled to hear this story. All the best for you every day! 😍😍
Thank you for sharing your story, I'm so sorry that happened to you 😞
In the beginning of the video, talking about technically being an adult, but also still being young, I understand completely. Looking back at 18, I was 100% groomed by a 30 year old, and didn't even realize it. I was also in a very vulnerable place in my life, and I longed for someone to notice me.
I remember the first time he kissed me, I legitimately cried. I never kissed a guy before and I felt such shame that this was my first kiss. Thank god we didn't go further than kissing, but just thinking back on it makes me feel repulsed. I held such shame for years and years that I had done something so terribly wrong. I do hold some responsibility for being selfish and wanting the attention, but I was a vulnerable, young, naive 18 year old girl, and he was a grown 30 year old who had authority over me. I was able to pull myself out of that weird relationship after a few months which I am grateful for.
So many men take advantage of young girls, and it's so gross, but we now have the language to know what it is.
And this behaviour is so common in the Christian community and dismissed and ignored. Thanks Elly again for sharing. Hope you are well.
I hope you're doing well! Thank you for sharing your story with us, I always look forward to your videos.
Ooof, this is a lot yo. I’m sorry that happened to you. Sending love and light.
At 18 you're legally an adult, but nowadays 18 is more the beginning of 'emerging adulthood' which is kind of a transition from adolescence to adulthood... I was definitely not mature enough at that age either to be considered an adult. So totally with you there. So sorry this happened... I hope this is a rarity but who knows
I have really great difficulty with this apparent growing tendency to infantilise youth, and for them to be kept in a state of dependence and heavily curtailed autonomy for even longer, especially in America, it seems (not that my own society, the UK, is exemplary in this regard). I want society to travel in the opposite direction, the direction of raising the young in an environment that is conducive to them being able to live as autonomously and independently as possible from as young an age as possible, an environment that nurtures the development of their ability to nurture themselves from early on. That, from the sounds of it, is the diametric opposite of what happened with this vlogger growing up. They probably were raised in an environment that stunted the development of many of the pre-requisite skills for being able to function as a rounded, autonomous, responsible adult, with the consequence that, at 18, they were still very naive, emotionally immature and vulnerable to manipulation and exploitation.
@@davidparry5310I don’t agree acknowledging that there’s a transitional period between adolescence and adulthood is infantilization. I mean, it’s emerging ADULThood, not prolonged adolescence. If anything, recognizing emerging adults as their own category grants them more autonomy and better age-specific milestones. No one is saying that emerging adults shouldn’t be able to date, marry, drive, own homes, or otherwise. Legally, they’re able to do those things just fine. But all emerging adulthood, as a category, does is acknowledge that there will be a discrepancy in life experience, knowledge, and understanding of identity between the average 18 year old and the average 30 year old. It gives emerging adults more time to explore themselves and their options before they are expected to have the same establishment as older adults. After all, you don’t wake up with a suit, tie, and briefcase the day you turn 18.
There are categories for middle adulthood and elder adulthood. Why shouldn’t the youngest adults have their own? Why shouldn’t the youngest adults have their own space to talk about the struggles related to their age? As a given society develops, full-fledged social adulthood tends to be pushed back further, as the youth take longer to educate and establish themselves into adults. It’s why “emerging adulthood” appears to be such a western concept-some of the most developed nations in the world are western. In societies that push for youth to be adults as soon as possible, development is less progressed. There are less opportunities for education and establishment. This also creates circumstances that are conducive to manipulation, abuse, and even excess deaths of young people. For one-how young should an adult be? If you’re going for as young as humanly possible, then a child should become an adult when they become biological adults. What is a biological adult? Biological adulthood refers specifically to the advanced development of reproductive organs (whether they actually function or not). Well…the general age range for pubescence around the world is 9-14 years old. Should a 9 year old have her first child nine months after her first period? Why not? She’s biologically an adult. What about a 10 year old boy? Should he be able to join the military because, as evidenced by his growth of body hair, he is now an adult? Should 9-14 year olds be expected to work full-time jobs? They used to here in the US. But there’s no room for school if you’re working 12 hour shifts. Conundrums like this are the reason that there are massive discrepancies in social adulthood and biological adulthood, and why they seem to increase within given societies.
@@ayannaperry7405 Well, I'm not in favour of prescribing a specific age at which people ought to have their first child, though I will say that I find it impossible to envisage a scenario where it is not horribly problematic for all sorts of reasons for someone to have their first child at 9, even in a society where social relations between younger and older people are conducted on much more egalitarian terms than is the case in almost any society presently in existence. I'm also not in favour of anybody, child or otherwise, having to sell their labour power.
You're talking not about societies that are designed to foster people being able to live relatively autonomous and independent lives from a young age, but about societies where they are acculturated into patriarchal gender roles from a very early age in the most coercive fashion imaginable, and/or where their labour power is brutally exploited for profit from a young age due to the global shift in industrial production away from 'First World' nations to parts of the world where that sort of thing is not merely tolerated but positively enabled. Both being shoehorned into patriarchal gender roles and being subject to the wage relation run counter to people being able to live as autonomously and independently as possible, and this is doubly true if it happens to children.
The state of affairs that I want to see realised entails not only the young being raised in an environment where there is much more of a concerted effort by adults to impart to them what might be termed basic living skills (e.g. cooking, cleaning), but also one in which they're much better enabled than they are now to develop certain aptitudes that will be necessary for them to be able to function optimally as autonomous, independent adults, from critical thought to interpersonal skills. Ending the wage relation, and thus the state of affairs where you'll have a couple with a child or children having to work 60hrs/week just to make ends meet, would mean that those responsible for the care of the young would be in a much better position to help them develop these skills, especially given a switch to communal forms of child-rearing, which would mean that the labour involved in this would be distributed among the adults in a given community. Education would also be radically overhauled, with schooling being conducted on a voluntary basis, and no longer being about creating obedient wage labourers and state subjects, but rather about fostering the development of critical thought, creativity and so on, and allowing pupils/students to develop knowledge, skills and understanding in the areas that interest them. Pupils/students freed from the burden of homework (which is part of how education at present seeks to acculturate the young into the responsibilities that will be placed upon them as wage labourers) will find more time outside of school for other pursuits, including the further development of the skills that will be necessary for them to function as autonomous adults.
The foregoing having been said, there is a potential danger of undue pressure being placed upon young people to develop the skills needed to become independent at a pace that is too fast, and that obviously would have to be guarded against. I know of no reason, however, why, having been raised in the kind of environment that I've described, young people could not reach the point where they're able to live independently at an average age of 15 or 16, not through having been railroaded into it, but as a natural outgrowth of having been raised in an environment that is so much more conducive to their development in this respect. There is, after all, nothing naturally pre-ordained about the idea that people should spend the first 18+ years of their lives in a state of total dependence. That's very much a historically contingent state of affairs.
As for your point about how no one's saying that 18-year-olds shouldn't be allowed to marry, date, drive, etc, etc, people might not be saying that _yet,_ but I worry that that's the trajectory. I fear that once you start saying to people that 'well ackshually, you're not really an adult even when you're 18', you're on a road that I personally find to be deeply undesirable.
@@davidparry5310 I still don’t see why using the term “emerging adulthood,” even in that ideal society, wouldn’t be useful. If, hypothetically, the average age of maturity would be 15-16, then emerging adulthood would shift back about 2-3 years. The transitional period between learning how to be an adult in a safe environment (the community) and actually existing as a functioning adult would still exist. Again, the term “emerging adulthood” doesn’t actually take adulthood away from anyone. Adult is part of the label on the tin. All it does is just acknowledge that a given person is freshly an adult in a social sense, and still needs time to establish to become a fully fledged ‘adult-adult.’ It’s the same reason that people that are biologically adults at 9, 10, 11, and 12 years old aren’t treated as social adults. It’s the same reason that, I would imagine, most people wouldn’t be happiest with a 9-year-old girl trying to raise a child. Young people have a lot to learn. Time helps them learn.
In any case, the term “emerging adulthood” would be helpful as a natural societal safeguard against forcing youth to mature too fast. It would also help relieve the expectations that would be put on, in this case, 15-16 year olds’ shoulders to find their identity, find their niche in the community, decide what they want to do, and where they want to go. Even if they spent their whole life toying with those ideas, those are still enormous decisions to make. They would still be able to do what they like-drive, marry, or otherwise. They would just be given lenience the same way college-aged people are now (emerging adults).
I feel like that concern you have is a bit of a slippery slope. Acknowledging that young adults are young doesn’t take away their right to be independent. No one is lobbying for 18 year olds to not be able to drive, marry, or own a home. No one is lobbying to nullify the driver’s licenses of 16 year olds because they are socially considered teenagers. If anything, the problem right now is that people want children to be thrown in with adults far too early. For example, child marriage is a hotly debated topic in the US, because there are many established adults that want to fight for their right to marry people that are 12 or even younger. People that are 18+ are indeed adults in this current system. Giving them the sub-label “emerging adults” doesn’t take that adulthood away. It just gives it more details.
Well thank goodness you accidentally derailed any future plans he may have had by making those phone calls. I always took the unexpected attention and “grown up” conversations from/with adult men to be a compliment on my maturity or spiritual growth instead of allowing myself to process how inappropriate or creepy those men were. Christian men were supposed to be safe.
Elly, thank you as always for sharing with us. Your channel has helped me so much personally.
I had a similar-ish experience to this. When I was a junior in high school, I overheard one of my teachers speaking about pornography and masturbation with a peer of mine (who was also a friend at the time). I did not like what I was hearing and felt a need to interfere, so I mentioned how I found those things tempting as well. Somehow this lead to me and my teacher having weekly lunch meetings in his classroom with the door closed. I want to emphasize that no S.A. happened. Like you, I did not have access to therapy, so these became liberating sessions for me to (somewhat freely) discuss my internal issues. We also started having conversations over Facebook, which was definitely against the school protocol he was supposed to follow as a teacher. After not speaking to him for a few years, he randomly reached out to me. I believe I had blocked him on the primary social media we interacted on, so he found me on another one. Within the week prior, it became public (as in through our local news media) that another teacher from the school whom I would interact with in and out of school was arrested for various S.A. charges. For the teacher I had been communicating with, this shook him to the core and he seemed panicked about it. He mentioned that he felt he could see himself in the arrested teacher's shoes, which was a major red flag to me. A friend of mine, who was a few grades below me, mentioned he had heard that the initial teacher had made some really odd statements about how the female students were "tempting" him when they wore their skirts too high or other fashion choices. I seriously debated reporting him to the police for a week before dropping it and deciding there wasn't anything definitive that they could investigate him for.
Thank you for sharing Ellie 🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
I'm subscribed to you and this video never popped up on my home page, which is at least the second time that has happened to me with your videos. :/
I'm glad that sharing this seems to have let you feel some distance and closure about such a troubling series of memories!
Ellie, if you have Patreon I will be glad to contribute. I love your videos. Although my situation was different (my family were not Christian), listening to your stories helps with my healing ❤
Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and educate others, and for always being so thoughtful when talking about others, it shows real emotional intelligence. I hope you'll be safe and will manage to keep living and traveling wherever you wish to ❤