1950s ATR Power Inverter Repair - It's a Mechanical SMPS!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Repair of a Mechanical Switch Mode Power Supply from the 50s! It takes 6VDC, then turns it into 110VAC, and you are the regulator! Let's make it work again. To learn electronics in a very different and effective way, and gain access to Mr Carlson's personal designs and inventions, visit the Mr Carlson's Lab Patreon page here: / mrcarlsonslab
#restoration #electronics #repairing - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
To learn electronics in a very different and effective way, and gain access to Mr Carlson's personal designs and inventions, visit the Mr Carlson's Lab Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/MrCarlsonsLab
What happened to the BC348Q Resto? You started it, but I never saw any videos of you finishing it. Maybe I missed them?
26:21 Yes, please do the entire restoration
and thanks in advance
Can you please measure the efficiency of the circuit and show the waveform on the oscilloscope ?
Yep. Thumbs-un on a total restoration. That old piece of equipment is so plainly, sheetmetalian cool. It could have been on the set of Forbidden Planet.
It at least deserves rust treatment on the binding posts and some fresh caps. To be honest the paint looks to be in decent condition, and adds to the charm.
Yes to the restoration please!
Yes on the rebuild! Also would've liked to see the AC output on a scope, loaded and unloaded.
I'd like to see it before and after recapping.
I would like to see that too.
What you would see on a scope is a dirty Square wave with some HV peaks, the capacitors are meant to tame them.
Yes, with all that arcing the wave pattern would be quite tough. I wonder if there is any filtering in the device? If did have the layer on the output wires.
Mr C will add a board and make it a near perfect sine wave. He da man! 👍
The big transformer will kill off much of the HF in the output. But the shielding is needed to help reduce HF being introduced in the cables themselves. And the capacitors are very much needed to reduce the radiation out on the 6V leads.
I have one of these exact units. It was my first electronics repair way back in 1968 at age 13. My dad had one sitting on a shelf in the garage for years. I don't know if he ever even had it operating. I asked him what it was, and when he told me, I immediately thought about using it for the amateur radio Field Day that year. But, it did not work, so I took it apart and not knowing anything about what I was doing, I found the capacitor across the AC line was bad. I replaced it with one from his stock of parts. He was also a ham radio operator, and that's where I learned about electronics, starting about age 9 by building a crystal radio. As it turned out, this unit didn't have enough capacity to run the radio equipment, but it fascinated me at a very young age, and by repairing it, I gained enough confidence to continue learning how to repair electronics and went on to have a successful career in the field of electronics, even spending a few years as chief engineer at an AM/FM radio station, all with no formal electronics training, just what I learned as a ham radio operator. I would love to see a full restoration on this unit. I would probably dig mine out and do the same for it. Thanks for this video. It brought back some very good memories of my younger days.
Thanks for sharing your story David!
Reminds me of the Honda E300 generator I came across 20 years ago. 2 stroke 50cc, 300 watt output. Got it free as a non runner, got it going, was all proud of myself, then couldn't figure out what the heck I'd want to power that ate less than 300 watts while also listening to a swarm of pissed off bees the whole time, lol.
Ended up selling it shortly after, and now that I've gotten full blown in to old cars and equipment, I really regret it.....
I’d love to see the AC waveform in this device including how clean it may be!
i had one as well back when i was 8 years old very interesting. it was when i started fixing tv's & radios in the early 70's i had a tube tester & would make regular trips to the drug store to buy tubes. this brought back good memories 😃
@davidbrittenham4631 I love this story! I'd also like to see the full restoration.
I would love a restoration, and then an analysis of the the output and the different settings with a scope. What a cute little contraption!
Show us the waveform at the output please
Yesss
I'd say yes to an electrical restoration, but no on the outside appearance. To me, I like the old look. Thanks for showing how a vibrator tube works! Always heard them in old car radios, but never knew how they did their job.
my ex ''''she knew vibrators better than anyone''''''''
Appreciating the frequency of your videos lately - the winter is long and incessantly wet in my neck of the woods - a bit of Carlson bench-time is always welcome
Nice little handheld EMI generator you got there !
Some of today's "cheap" S.M.P.S.'s are even worse.... 😬
A portable spark-gap transmitter.
@@davelowets you say that ,but i live in one the crappiest third world countries of the world & we get absoulute worst quality products including smps , but i havent encountered any horrible EMI from them . Also , we dont even have earth ground in our homes , we only have neutral & live
@@thevoidedwarrantyalot of the SMPS cell chargers we get in the USA are very noisy with emi, there's something else in my house
I haven't yet found thats very noisy really only on my tube broadcast receivers. Only have a couple IC based soild state receivers and they are just no were near as sensitive as the tube sets.
@@Anthonytheredneck yea man, just can't beat the tube equipment, they are too good !
Around 1970 a girl in my car asked what the buzzing was and I said my heart, now 54 years later the buzzing is in my ear. ! It was of course the vibrating oscillator in my car radio common at the time. It was annoying so I found a radio with the 12AD6 etc valve set with 12v anodes and built a transistor output stage, glad to say the music plays on. Thanks, a real trip down memory lane as these contacts were a continual source of bother.
Space charge tubes are cool... 😎
I say go for it - with all this solid state stuff around, it'll be refreshing to hear the hum of something actually working instead of just sitting there like a museum display.
Definitely do a complete restoration! Very cool device. Back in the 50s and 60s I used a Ford Model T spark coil to provide the spark to my Dyna-Jet pulse-jet engine for control-line speed flying. The coil stepped-up 6 volts to about 20kv with a set of vibrating points. Worked great!
Now I want to find a mechanical inverter! That's was awesome Paul! Would love to see this get a well deserved restoration.
You could make your own pretty easily with a d.p.d.t relay, a transformer, and a few capacitors. Getting the frequency tuned to 60hz without the help of an external oscillator circuit to power the relay would be really hard, but it would work nontheless.
Of course we would like to see the Restauration!
I vote YES on complete restoration. I love the long form videos !
The oscillator is in fact a relay which get powered through his own NC contacts. A restoration would be nice, then we can also see how the voltage regulation works. Grtz
Back in the 1950's I filed the points on dozens of the automobile radio vibrators-most built before 1940. Contrary to some comments, these circuits were well shielded and filtered. Switching power supply designers haven't learned a thing when it comes to supressing interference. The hardest part was removing the power supply from the car which was usually located in a difficult to access location. Interested in learning about the function of the voltage regulator rotary switch.
Ah the good ol days when lil strip of emery cloth and some wd would solve most of your problems.
The manual "regulation" comment reminds me of something that was often said when we were studying electronics at technical college: the output will remain constant when adjusted to do so
I'd like to see a full restoration. The vibrator reminds me of the old tube radio that was in my dad's 1953 Cadillac. They were always going bad. When you turned on the radio the first thing you would hear was the sound of the vibrator until the tubes warmed up and the radio came alive. Brings back memories.
A full restoration? Yes, please.
In the early 1970's I was a soldier with the US Army. After my year in Nam, I was stationed with the 3rd ACR communications secion. We had radio teletype van that ran on both 24 volts for the radios and 110 for the teletype machines. To get that 110 while on the road or temparorily parked we could turn on two rotary inverters, when we sat up for a long time we started up the 2 110 volt generators that we hauled behind the rig on a trailor. The HQ would tap in to our generators for electrical power in their tents. The generators were 10 KW and ran on motor fuel (gas),
Thanks for sharing your story Jerry!
How could you not show us an oscilloscope of the 120 volt output?!
It's not restored, so no point. It's 110V out, not 120V.
Great find mr. Carlson. I love to see hammer finish this thing... As a matter of fact it was just a question in a german forum of how to do that. Not worth metion actually.
Always enjoy your videos and thanks for taking your time doing this stuff. We love you! Stay healthy man!
You’ve got to show the output on an oscilloscope. I’m assuming that it’s going to be a square wave. And can you draw the schematic as built really interesting project really.
It's hard to believe that vibrates at 60hz. I've worked on PSUs specifically for PC. I would be lost in something like this.
When I saw that pendulum swing and saw that blue spark, all I could think of was "beautiful!"
Thank you Mr Carlson, I’m 70 and had a short career in the uk learning, building and repairing equipment, most I learnt getting hands on and you get the ahhh moment and get a happy customer. I get great joy in knowing you are so knowledgeable and enjoy your videos. Thank you ❤
All by myself
Many of the old vacuum tube car radios of the 50's had a mechanical vibrator device to use as part of the circuit to step up 6 or 12 volt electrical systems to a working voltage for the vacuum tubes. It was a plug in cylindrical device that you could actually hear vibrating if you put your ear close to.
Yes please restore it
Absolutely would love to see this given some new guts and a new coat of paint. What a charming little device.
This brought back a memory. Back in maybe 62 found a radio that was in a similar box at a trash dump. I remember the sound when I connected it to a battery. OK, I was 8 and stupid. Probably a 6 volt, but connected to a 12 volt battery. The one that he has looks great. The one that I played with, the case was all rust.
how'd you resist the clickbait title of "vintage 1950s vibrator repair"?
did you have a haircut btw? looks sharp :)
I would like to see the restoration
Your bench is awe inspiring. It keeps me mindful of my own space, and I find myself organizing more after one of your videos.
Absolutely yes, please, on the full restoration of the ATR power supply.
Thank you!
The first contact was very far gone. However, if the contacts aren't *that* bad (the 4 round contacts are not something that i would've used sandpaper on), first use a piece of ordinary printer paper soaked in contact cleaner. After that, repeat the cleaning with dry paper.
Sometimes, the contacts are coated with something and you want to avoid removing that coating as much as possible. This also goes for relay contacts, switch contacts etc.
Silver. You are correct using paper. I'm guessing with these however there's no silver on the contacts because it wouldn't survive the high arcing.
Mr Carlsons lab your antique atr power inverter is awesome from 1950s
Nicely done Mr C, the tubing cutter solution was one I hadn't thought of to be honest. Maybe an electronic restoration leaving the exterior as is would be plausible. This is a unique piece meant to be seen and demonstrated, not necessarily used. Another great video down memory lane, much appreciated. Thanks.
I'd really love to see the waveform that comes out of that outlet and an analysis of what devices would be safe to power with it. Thank you for another excellent video.
I think the wavefor is very clean, the big transformer is a lowpass filter. Not so sure about the frequency maybe a little unsteady...
The cool kids in the 50´s I imagine ran a nice beach party with this. Park the Caddie aside, idle running, open hood, the buzzer with a long ac lead to power a turntable and a radio.
Not so much a restoration but a time correct demo (like I mentioned) I´d like to see. Let´s listen to some RocknRoll for a change...
I've got an old late 40s or 50s military aircraft radio think rx/tx, with the same electro/mechanical power supply.
It's built for the military, so it's better constructed, and it's aluminium.
It also has on the back of the valve electronics several big frequency crystals.
I would have used an even softer cleaning device. Good job it was built when things were meant to last or the contactor would have been damaged, plating, or surface damaged.
Yes, please do a complete restoration.
I find you are very knowledgeable, thorough and it can be passed on to your viewers.
Thanks for the video.
Yes please! A restoration would be most interesting - these sort of electro-mech devices show the ingenuity designers had before everything could be done 'solid state'!
I'd love to see the waveform that device outputs, as it'll definitely be pretty unclean. I really enjoyed this video, thanks Mr Carlson!
The mecanical oscillator overswing - smart - when it does not functions it do not draw current overheating the transformer 👍😎👍
Please do the restoration, awesome video as always 👍👍👍😎
This box has such Fallout vibes
Restoration please Mr Carlson 🙂👍
No doubt, Paul. Make this goodie shine again! Great video, as always!
What a neat piece. Restoration video would be great!
Paul. Please do a video on restoration of your HP141T Spectrum Analyzer. Keep em coming. Another great video. Thanks for sharing your knowlege.
Looks like the CONTROL lead didn't do anything in particular.
@ 25:45 -- 58 Hertz per my spectral analysis. Nobody would say 58 Hz hurts in 21st century power grid terms, right? Close enough for jazz.
Strangest thing- I once found one of these devices... or what I suspected was one. All it said on it was "OAK" and a part number. When I Googled the part number, the only thing that came up was a place that manufactured oak furniture... very strange.
Peace.
Great stuff! I’d like to see quality of the AC under load. And see the effects, if any, of replacing the caps. It would be great to also hear how an AC powered AM radio sounds on this thing to see how well the shielding really performs. What sort of load could this handle? It would be interesting to see what sort of devices could run off a 6 volt car battery, and the effect of the regulator switch. Thanks again! It’s great to see this older technology up and running!
Coming from a car Hot Rodding Family, I learned about vibrators years ago. A switch on the dash to turn them on, and off, two in the trunk wired to two seperate ignition coils and condensers that had the high voltage ran out to a spark plug welded into each exhaust pipe. Set the carb to run rich, rev it up, flip the switch, and you had twin flamethrowers out of the exhaust. Pretty awesome when you’re a kid!
And, of COURSE we want to see you restore it. We ALWAYS learn something new from you, and your attention to detail that will serve us well on a completely unrelated project we’re working on.
Yes, I remeber that well. Foot to the floor, car ignition shuts off and tailpipe plugs turn on. Those are hot flames, perfect mixture!
Yes please , Mr. C . Please restore this or something else soon ! We need more imput ! 😅😅😊 thanks Paul for all of your downloads ! Also how do I get a hold of you ? I have a Grundig portable radio receiver that I bought new in 2008 . It needs repaired and alignment done on it ! It has always received very poorly and the frequency counter is misaligned for the station you are listening too ! I think it would be great to do a video to share with us on Y/T ! Thank you again !
@MrCarlsonsLab. Could you make a modern circuit that can emulate the Vibrator? I ask because the vibrator might be missing or unrepairable. For example lets say for some reason the vibrator can was crushed, or the contacts snapped off or something. Could I use the base contacts that plug into the socket and wire up a home made Solid state Oscillator to emulate the vibrator. I happen to have one of these old Inverters, the only difference between yours and the one I have, is that Mine uses a 12 Volt Source instead of a 6 volt source. (newer model that still uses a vibrator) but the Vibrator in mine is heavily damage, due to rust, and other forms of corrosion. the outer can is almost completely rusted away, and the bracket that holds the Electromagnet is rusted so badly that it crumbled in my hands. the lower contacts seem to be is somewhat operational condition, but I cannot be certain. so I was thinking of using the pin bases from the vibrator since there is almost no corrosion on the contact pins, and the Mica or Bakelite insulator board that holds those pins, is intact. Rather than trying to locate a factory spec part, and hope that it works. I want to try and use a solid state logic based oscillator. How hard do you think it would be to make a modern version of the oscillator that can handle the kinds of current that the original component was design to handle? Would I have to drive a relay? Or Could I drive the circuit directly through a MOSFET or something of that nature? As for the Restoration, I say go for it.
Mr Carlsons lab you are good at restoring antique radios and alignment of antique radios my friend
its output must be squarewave right? I would love to see its output in osciloscope with idle and delivering amps.. maybe you can soften its output to be more like a sinusoidal wave. And also I would love to see what is the affect of the voltage regulator sellector. Thank you Mr. Carlson.
My dad had a Heathkit tube CB radio that had a vibrator to turn the 12v into some kind of AC to step up the voltage. We also had some old aircraft radios bought as surplus, they used a dynamo to step up the airplane voltage (24 or 48v I'm not sure) for plate voltage. You might find one of those to tear apart.
I had a few of them years back. 6V 12V and 24V . their is a taller model . I had 3 different ones. all fixed the same way. I had to replace wax caps . they got hot and melted after running a wile. so I replaced with the orange drop ones. worked great and were noisy . would like to see that look like new again. also please put the AC on a scope and frequency counter and ac volt meter .
Hi Paul, I really want to see the continuation of the Grand Receiver Restoration Series. So that's my vote. Keep up the inspiring work! I know its very time-consuming.
I'm surprised it's so rusted on the frame part, being sealed inside that can. Is it not really sealed and that's enough to cause that level of rust? Ozone from the sparks? Very cool!
Hey Mr. Carlson... Yes an full restoration would be fun and educational to watch. Meanwhile since a 6 volt vintage car radios also use the vibrator oscillator system, a revival of an old radio would also be nice to see.
Your channel has bee of much help to me over the past 5 or 6 years or so in my learning form you what a capacitor is. In the meantime I have resorted a few vintage German radios.
Definitely do a complete restoration and show what the output looks like on an oscilloscope!
Great video Mr Carlson sir and I happy old inverter seed. I think big relay used on inverter contacting voltage amp and battery connection over and under voltage ⚡️ but this model vibration is on when current and voltage generated but old is gold sir never ever fails and thanks for sharing this video sir nice 😊❤❤
Thanks for sharing. Would that oscillator work better in a vaccum tube with less wear on the contacts? I am new to your channel was referred to you by Zachslife channel.
Kinda wild that recent higher efficiency DC to AC inverters are small and crazy light compared to the original one that's featured here.
YES! Please restore! Maybe scope it so we could have a before-and-after look?
Make you a good deal on a "new" 6v, 7-pin vibrator.... I happen to have several New in the box...
I wish they still made these simple machines!
Very nice 👍 my old boss told me about these when we were talking about a power supply I was working on for some equipment. Never actually saw one in the wild, but he did say they were very unreliable. Cool to see one working, same principal as the old door bells.
Cheers,
Jake
Try running an AM radio with it.
I would love to see the waveform of the output voltage. I presume very non-sinusoidrial (is that a word?)
Fantastic inverter I never know something like this was present.. I have seen a single ferrite rod inverter my father had 20 years ago the oldest inverter I ever know.. but this is awesome
I cant believe I haven't found your channel yet! Instant subscribe! Im going to build my own vibration oscillator small inverter.
Greetings from McMurdo Station Antarctica 😊
Welcome aboard!
What's the network latency like down there?
Wow, a spark gap radio transmitter. That thing has to be throwing off some serious RF noise across the radio spectrum?
Never use sandpaper on contacts. It fixes it at first but after operation you get silicon carbide insulation due to the arcing interaction with the sandpaper residue. Only use a metal file to clean relay contacts
The emergency rescue radios carried by WW2 airmen had a word kind of smps built in that was very simple, almost just a relay and a capacitor, when charged the capacitor de-energises the coil in the relay.
I would be interested in seeing the output waveform. More or less terrible than the "modified sine" units that followed?
I’d like to see a restoration
I like inverters I use them a lot
They can be used as an isolation transformer when working on AA5’s
Whitout working caps on the contacts you wil here this sparkgap transmitter 4 blocks away! lol
Definite yes on the full restoration of this gem. Nice to see more old ATR equipment around ! They were certainly durable devices. I have and still use my fathers old filtered "battery eliminator" from the late '50s; model 610C-ELIF. The AC line bypass capacitor has been replaced but the two original "computer grade" filters (4k mfd 15 volt each) are still going strong as are the original disc rectifiers. I use it in servicing automobile radios, portable TVCR / DVD combos, etc... Though it's been a few years since I scoped its output, its always been very smooth and reliable. The single only issue nowadays is the accuracy of the meters. But, I monitor that with separate meters. I don't think it has an internal calibration adjust but haven't looked. I'm reluctant to pull it apart when it still works so well. ATR certainly wanted their equipment to be long lived and it shows. Also, thanks for the demonstration of how you service vibrators. I haven't used that method of entry before but certainly intend to. Great job 👍
22:00 Excellent Sex Toy for woman in Victorian era ... that how Hysteria has to be treated at that time ! 🤣
I have a 200W model from the same company. I need to see if I can get it working.
Yes, please Mr. Carlson show the whole restoration. In addition it would be great an explanation of how it works with the schematics and the logic behind, plus a quality test of the AC voltage produced on the oscilloscope with amount of ripple if it does it.
- Will it be better that modern AC generators ? 🤔
An old fashion doorbell with extra contacts driving a transformer.
I would certainly like a full restoration of this.
Mr Paul, I love your stuff, but I just can't support at this time.
Just like the 1950s tube car radio power supply
My OCD Thanks You!! 🙃👀😲 🙂 Ah, much better. 😌
soldering the can back together after using a pipe cutter would feel good to do, haha
I have a 1940's Midstates Hy-Cycle-Hi-Frequency Arc stabilizer On my AC welder to run DC only electrodes on AC it has gapped tungsten points like that to generate Hi fequency 5000 volts @ 1/5th ampere superimposed into the welding leads.
That's pretty nifty Paul. Thanks 🙂
Thanks for stopping by Dave!
Back in the '50s car radios had vibrators.
There are synchronous vibrators that switch the secondary to remove the need for a rectifier
Would love to see a restoration of this inverter along with analysis displaying the characteristics.
A dollar bill is great for the final cleaning of the contacts due to their lint freeness.
You're so clever with that pipe cutter, awesome.
Who invented this device?