The thing is that a lot of disneys projects aren’t making as much money as they could be. Last Jedi and rise of skywalker each made a billion dollars but they should have hit 2 billion like force awakens
She saw Kenobi disappear. She’s a bit more familiar with Jedi stuff than Luke is, she may have been hoping he was pulling a vanishing act and somehow survived. But then she also was just a few hours away from having witnessed the total destruction of Alderaan. Including her family, friends, etc. Who knows how she’d react. She’s also seen Kenobi willing to sacrifice himself several times. I dunno, I hate prequels, they will either mess with canon or overtly reference canon to an annoying degree. We can’t have original stories with original characters anymore. Even Mando’s sho got taken over by preexisting characters.
@@russellharrell2747 In true canon she never met kenobi dude stop trying head canon or Disney canon kiddo, also even Vader was very surprised when obi wan just disappeared after a saber strike so don’t try and justify Leia and her reaction from the 1st Star Wars film all because of this damn show dude
@@russellharrell2747 There’s really no reason to try so hard to twist the narrative into something barely believable, bud. It’s just that bad and they’re just that lazy or stupid. You are putting more effort into the show right now than they did.
@@decayedparadigm calm down, it was just an exercise in attempting to make the show fit. Obviously ANH is still the same movie it’s always been. Even RotJ attempts to retcon ANH with Ben telling Luke he wasn’t lying, just that it was the truth from a certain point of view. Luke even calls him out for how hypocritical it sounds! They didn’t stop lucasfilm and later Disney from continuing to retcon the previous films while attempting to gaslight us into believing it’s not a retcon at all. I was trying to express that I hate that I can write all of that to justify the Kenobi series’ blatant attempts at retconning so easily thanks to decades of being encouraged to do so every time a prequel or sequel or cartoon did the same thing. It’s nothing new, and it’s not even as blatant as the worst examples (primarily Palpatine’s return in TROS shitting on the OT). Kenobi was just another mediocre streaming show that had a few cool scenes but was ultimately pointless. Instead of being an introspective look into Ben’s struggles following his exile and how to come to terms with a Galaxy without Jedi, and perhaps even an adventure in which he discovers some lost Jedi as either survivors of order 66 or another group that was cut off from the Galaxy decades before, we had a highly improbable adventure with characters that shouldn’t have met up earlier than we are in ANH, getting into situations that force characters to make dumb decisions over and over. It doesn’t matter. SW to me is still 2 great movies, one ok movie that never quite ties up the story satisfactorily, and a bunch of other shit that I can take or leave.
"Most of what I did enjoy was surface level or nostalgia inducing fluff. And when you look past that what you're left with is a story that doesn't make sense and only exists to use characters like Obi Wan, Darth Vader, and Leia as the assets Disney views them as." SPOT ON!
And isn't that the irony? How much more valuable would these "assets" be if they were actually GOOD Star Wars that respected the Story as It Already Exists (that is, canon)? What if they did a "young Leia" series as she begins getting involved in the Rebel Alliance as a teen (Disney does have a stable of teenage female talent)? We know from Star Wars that Leia _has_ met Vader before and that Ben _hasn't_ seen Vader since the end of Episode 3. You could have shown THOSE interactions! What if the "Obi Wan" series actually did what the Obi Wan novel did? What if Boba Fett was actually about Boba Fett instead of whoever that was in the Boba Fett series? How much more POPULAR would those shows have been, how many more subs would Disney+ have gotten if fans discovered that Disney/Lucasfilm were actually making GOOD Star Wars? They want to make this franchise a MONEY MAKER, yet they keep _intentionally_ alienating the people most likely to SPEND MONEY on the franchise and get other people invested.
But decades from now she'll name her son after his alias because he meant so much to her. Couldn't name him Obi-wan though because she still has to keep their relationship a secret. lol
@@seriousnesstv7902 yeah, in the original continuation for the movies (before Disney bought it), Luke's son was actually called Ben Skywalker, since Ben ACTUALLY meant a lot to Luke
I feel like Leia should have never been in this series. It should have been a deeper look at Obi-WAN’s trauma and guilt, juxtaposed against Vader. Also, Obi-Wan trying to connect with Qui-Gon
I would have thought it was cool and interesting. Lots of flashbacks and memories, lots of struggles with surviving in the desert... but to most it would have been boring I think. 😞
Luke coulda also gotten in plenty of trouble n Ben saving him in secret...there was so much Canon material to work with but disney sure loves being creative n fixing things
@@ertymexx exactly these people only want nostalgia and action instead of an intense physiological horror with Obi wan haunted by his past and one day over coming it through Qui gon
What I wanted was 1) Obi-Wan making himself a decoy/person of interest anytime the Empire got within a hemisphere of Luke. Basically he invents the persona "Ben" Kenobi as a non-Force using distant relative of Obi-Wan...but he creates rumors about Obi-Wan appearing in other places. Whenever the Empire comes sniffing around, he works to throw them off the scent 2) Obi-Wan aids the Hutts in expanding their control of Tattooine, working behind the scenes as a middleman to set up deals between the Hutts and the Empire. Obi-Wan's justification is that the Hutts aren't looking for Jedi, so if they have control of Tattooine (with the blessing of the Empire), there will be less for Obi-Wan and Luke to worry about
The worst part: they're getting away with it. They're not only getting away with it, but people are going out of their way to insult people who speak out about these plot holes. Nostalgia is capable of incredible things. This is a horrible time to be a hardcore Star Wars fan.
And it’s crazy because Disney was so successful with the MCU. You’d think they’d just copy that same template for Star Wars. Have one person in charge coordinating all these different projects. Make sure that the stories don’t conflict with each other or the existing lore. Build characters up slowly so we have a reason to care what happens to them. Have your big spectacles but make sure the stories that connect them are logical. I don’t understand how they can get it so right with the MCU and yet so wrong with Star Wars.
But it can't be nostalgia alone. Even people with Star Wars nostalgia can recognize bad writing as what it is. It is either low standards, or unwillingness to admit what Disney ownership has done (and is doing) to ST.
Even the emperor had to tell Vader to chill out and stop looking for Obi-Wan because he now has, and I insist on this, litteraly every mean to find him. He knows Reva kidnapped Leia and that it successfully made Obi-wan show himself. I'm positively mystified that so little people actually took notice of all of this nonsense
Reminds me of when Pam Ewing opened to shower door to find out that Bobby Ewing was still alive, even after they did a whole season where he was supposed to be dead.
The fact that Kenobi had the chance to kill Vader but just didn't is ridiculous, especially when he tries to gaslight Luke into killing him years later.
You're quite correct, and this is my biggest problem with the show. Obi-Wan should have at least _tried_ to kill Vader. Maybe something happens that stops him, but he should make the attempt. Otherwise it makes no sense why he's convinced Luke has to do it later.
Imagine if they had the balls to kill Vader right there and end the series with a teaser for the remake of the original trilogy.. The internet would explode, the war on Ukraine would stop, the universe would stop moving, lol 😂
Yes agreed he should’ve proceeded to strike the killing blow then all of a sudden he hears Qui Gons voice! Obi Wan Nooooooo!!!!! Then at the last minute Obi Wan shuts his lightsaber off. Would’ve been sooo much better that way.
Someone please explain to me what was Reva's line of reasoning to go to Tatooine to kill a small boy, based on nothing more than a garbled message? What did she hoped to achieve by killing with a lightsaber a small boy? To make Obi-Wan go revengeful mad? The decision can't have anything to do with Anakin because she did not know Luke was his son.
I think it's one of those, "Generational trauma" type things. Reva had the same thing happen to her, she was raised into a, "What if Anakin grew from a darkside perspective from the get-go instead of a lightside perspective", and she was conditioned into repeating the trauma that resulted in her person. Luke was just someone she could mirror herself on because she heard "Child" and that triggered this whole ordeal.
If I remember correctly she picked up the hologram transmission janky jank that Obi Wan dropped, the one from Senator Organa, in which I believe he mentions that Vader can’t find out about the boy Completely retarded imo, but at the end of the day I feel like you guys are critiquing the wrong things here. It’s like you guys watched the show drunk and wanna critique it
What also shows a lack of care is the editing. They have some clear moments when editing could compensate for the contrivances in the script: - Reva could attack Vader while he tries to force pull the ship, knocking some sense into Reva's plan and explaining how the refugees barely escape (no need for a second ship). - Obi-Wan could feel Luke's distress during his duel against Vader, explaining why he must flee immediately rather than finish off Vader. I don't mean that these two points would salvage this garbage of a show (Obi-Wan would still be too far to reach Tatooine in time), just that they could occasionally make it slightly less stupid, but they didn't even try.
Man you are a genius!!!! How something so simple and they just ruined it And you forget something about the edition The music!!!! It was just terrible, generic and dull Music in Star Wars, is as a character itself Just look the scene (that was copied) from Rebels, when Vader has half his face exposed Gotta admit, was powerful in Kenobi, but at Rebels, the music behind, made it X10 better!!!!! Or remember the last 4 episodes of The Clon Wars, my God!!! The music was so haunting, there were entire scenes where nobody talked at all, just the music passing by In Kenobi series....... There are just two scenes, when Leia holds hand with Kenobi, and the flashbacks between Anakin and Obi-Wan The rest I forget, nothing good
Your first line isn't really an editing issue, for Reva to attack Vader mid ship force pull you have to block it and shoot it that way. You can't just edit it after they shot the first way to make it the second way. I agree it's a much better way to handle that, vs a stupid decoy ship, but that's not editing. You're only editing what was shot with intention. Also agree on making it slightly less stupid, I use the word sophistication because I do think these legacy characters deserve some decent script writing scenarios.
Or just don’t make a shitty show and leave these beloved characters alone. Because every time they touch this franchise, they further dilute and destroy the established canon. Even Mandalorian has this problem, and that show is mostly great. It has a few big issues, though, and the best thing for this franchise right now, as far as I’m concerned, really should just be to leave it alone.
When they had to choose between Leia and Obi Wan I just straight up laughed, like what just get a couple of star fighters to keep track of them but no that was impossible for the big and scary empire. Also Obi-Wan when he "defeated" Vader just flew straight through the Star Destroyer without any hesitation, like where was it? It just disappeared out of nowhere. It's either the writers are way too lazy to come up with something or they just completely forgot about it. Happens multiple times throughout the show
I was thinking the same thing. Literally the first shot of the first Star Wars movie, the same Star Destroyer just snatches the Tantive IV with a tractor beam and brings it into its hanger bay.
When they’re making a new MCU movie, the studio assigns them a lore advisor to make sure the new movie doesn’t contradict with the story that’s already been written. Seems like Disney Star Wars could benefit greatly from being ran like the MCU. Mostly, have someone in charge who actually cares about the source material and wants to get it right.
Vader didn’t want the star destroyer nor tie fighters to destroy the republic ship because obi wan was on it but they definitely could’ve shot down the fighters that helped them escape from the fortress inquisatorious.
1. Luke lives because a maniac had her special moment at the right time. 2. Leia was an overpowered 10 year old with the same personality as with 20. 3. Kenobi was a useless, forceless coward for 10 years. 4. Kenobi beats Vader in straight 1 vs 1 combat. 5. Reva is better than Anakin, because she could turn herself from the Darkside without any help. 6. Bail Organa is more stupid than Jar Jar Bings. 7. Aunt Beru nearly got Luke killed out of pride 8. There is a rebel organisation that gathers people with the force, but the rebellion doesn’t have any force wielding warrior 19 years later except Luke. 9. there are inquisitors that hunt Jedi and use the force in public, but nobody even believes the force or Jedi exist 10 years later.
Anyone who escaped the empire using The Path probably never joined the rebels and just tried to live normal lives. Aunt beru probably got her and Owen killed in ANH because of pride, just like in that Troopers fan film. Reva never killed younglings, and refused to do so even to get revenge. I don’t think she was all that into the dark side anyway. Bail is definitely dumber than jar jar. Most people probably believe ‘Jedi’ and other ‘force’ users merely use magnets, ray shields, and other gadgets to appear to be using some unseen Force. Han even says it’s just a bunch of simple tricks and nonsense, and that appears to be the prevailing view of at least the outer rim.
@@emberfist8347 I’m pretty sure there were quite a few imperials that knew the force was real. Vader choked a lot of dudes. Most nobodies in the Galaxy would have never seen any force sensitive people, much less Jedi. Han Solo might be a typical spacer in that he’s very cynical about everything, but especially the force. Luke of course would have NEVER been told about the Jedi by his family, and his friends would only have known bed time stories at best, and that’s not the kind of things kids or teens care to discuss among themselves. The only way he’d had known about the Jedi would be through imperial holonet news. It’s easy to believe the Imperial propaganda when it’s a fact that the Jedi were slaughtered en mass in one day with just a small handful surviving. The supposed super warriors who controlled a mysterious and all powerful Force that allows them to know the future were all surprised by their own troops. Overnight their reputation would have been shattered. Deemed traitors to the republic and the new Empire, they would have easily been branded charlatans and even fools.
Did the writers just forget that Tie fighters exist? Seriously a bunch of the Empire’s problems would be solved if they just sent out some tie fighters. Kenobi and Leia escaping the planet? Send some tie fighters. Kenobi and Leia escaping the fortress? Send some tie fighters. Choosing between Kenobi or the rebels? Send some tie fighters. Kenobi flying away after his and Vader’s duel? Send some tie fighters (or even just use the Star destroyer you have in orbit)
They can't have TIE Fighters for that exact reason - if they acknowledge they exist, they have to write proper, intelligent stories to explain how those things happen, which would require effort and time consuming things like script editing and redrafting, which Disney didn't hire them for. As far as Disney showrunners are concerned, if something isn't on screen, it doesn't exist
To be honest, I always thought TCW actually missed an opportunity to show Kenobi serving Bail during the Clone Wars. And I don't mean in the larger "all Jedi served the Republic" sense. Leia's words in ANH, and then Bail's in R1, always made it sound like Obi-Wan served him on a more personal level than that. Something like commanding an army in defense of Alderaan itself from a Separatist invasion.
@@StarryDrukhari you’re looking at this from the wrong point of view. Yes Obi-Wan might be like “it was nothing, all part of my job.” But if you’re actually the one being saved, in this case Bail, then that’s a massive moment in your life and it feels like a pretty big contribution. Similarly, firefighters save lots of people, but out of those lots of people, occasionally some of them feel so thankful that they might track down the firefighter that saved them in 5, 10 or 20 years for a reunion and to properly thank them, introduce them to the family they have now that they never would have had without being rescued etc.
The scene that really sticks out to me the most is when Reva, an Inquisitor with a spinning lightsaber who can literally just use the force on people, has a “battle” with Owen and Beru. 😐
And good lord, does not kill any of them. Of course she can't, else it would be a bigger plot hole than anything else in this series, but it does not make sense for her character
I didn’t want this to be the case, but personally, I literally can’t overall accept or even reconcile this show as canon no matter how hard I try, and something tells me that I’m far from alone on feeling this way.
feels so shoe horned in and not respective of EVERY line of the originals and canon. i still like vader and kenobi scenes but dear god there was too much contrivences and holding back of characters, Like vader not killing riva the moment she failed regardless of the tracker
Honestly, I was completely in the camp of Disney isn't canon, Legends is, by the end of TLJ. Sad thing is that there are plenty of Disney canon things that I enjoy quite a lot, but things like these things just ruin the overall universe for me.
Same, dude. From the first 10 minutes, I could tell this was gonna be an absolute shit show. I'm so disappointed. It's ONLY watchable because of Ewan. Even if he just came back for the paycheck, I'm glad he did. I feel like Disney is careless enough to replace him if necessary, and that would've made the show a 1/10
It's praised due its elevation of women and minorities. That's why Disney do it. Its their protection from criticism. If you don't like it you're dismissed as a bigot. Sadly many young people have been brainwashed by this nonsense. Its literally taught in schools and infests twitter and tik tok.
Thanks to this show making Bail Organa an idiot, it makes no sense how the empire didn’t arrest him and his family before ANH for treason or at the very least had him under HEAVY surveillance since his connection to Kenobi was exposed by the Inquisitors. Oh and remember that Ashoka is still active in this time period slowly organizing Rebel Cells, there is NO reason why Bail immediately doesn’t try to seek her out given that Obi-Wan’s only priorities should be watching out for Luke and his training in the force. And let’s not forget about Reva who is a walking time paradox, there is absolutely NO way she should have survived that stab wound as a child let alone survive Order 66 as a whole. Every time Disney goes back to that event, they somehow manage to make it less tragic as it actually should be. All this show did is complicate the time period between EP3 and EP4, A New Hope feels incredibly muddled if you have to take the events of Kenobi into account.
“Hey Obi Wan. I know we said no communication but I haven’t had any communication from you and I’m worried, so I’m gonna to send you this communication. I’m worried you’ve been captured and this device could now be in the hands of the empire, so let me confirm that I’ve been conspiring with you and unnecessarily add details about our other conspiracies, such as how Luke is on Tattoine”- Bail Organa
Let's not forget how Leia has literally no reaction to Ben's death in ANH. She had this experience with him while Luke barely knew him but it's Luke that is the most distraught over Ben's death. Leia says nothing about what a great man he was. And why did Ben's ghost never appear to Leia?
To be fair, my dad died when I was 10, when I was 19 it felt like I never had a dad. I remembered glimpses, sure, but if I saw him on the street I would have problems recognizing him.
I have always loved Obi-Wan, even as an old man in A New Hope. This series hurt my heart, I wanted a quiet look into his loneliest time or perhaps a show that turned him into a mythos of Tattoine. Like a lone warrior protecting water farmers and small villages from their day to day struggles with sand people and the hutts. The show they gave us was just stuff happening, its like they think we need an action scene every minute or we'll become bored.
It would be torture for Obi-Wan on Tattoine because there's so much evil and he would not be able to do anything, lest he draw attention to himself and to Luke. If any word got out of a Jedi, the Empire would be there... combing the desert! lol. But really, there's nothing he could do. And we know by the state of things in ANH, he didn't do anything.
@@JonathanGaeta There was no way the Obi Wan series was ever going to be good. Obi Wan Kenobi was always a dull, flat boring and underdeveloped character. In the comics he is an unsuffereable Mary Sue of the worst kind. The writers have to rely on squeezing every last modicom of sympathy out of the audience by creating Woobie Wan Sad-Sads, a pathetic figure who suffered more than anyone who ever lived, but his "infinite suffering" serves no purpose except to garner sympathy. It does not further the plot or develop him as a person, because Obi Wan cannot be fixed. He has no personality, no real character. He's an overrated cliche who never should have had his own series.
@@achaudhari101 bro she was stabbed as a youngling. You can’t play dead if your literally the one un injured body in a room of corpses being patrolled by highly trained soldiers and the guy whose killing all your friends.
In the finale, OT Vader would’ve pursued Obi Wan in his tie fighter and commanded the Grand Inquisitor to continue pursuing Leia and the Rebels to Alderaan and have the planet attacked
Do we ever see any TIE fighters? Vader might not have gotten his TIE Advanced craft yet. Still, the shuttle Vader used to land on the planet is perfectly capable of perusing Obi-Wans ship, the shuttle even have hyperdrive in addition to lasers and shields.
For the people who are ok with Reva getting stabbed and just walking away, I wonder what it would take for them to say “oh that doesn’t make sense”. Like honestly.
@@Oldstalk don’t give these people any ideas. I can already picture them killing an established character before they are supposed to die and just explaining it with “cloning. Dark science. Secrets only the Sith knew. Reva did kill Luke, the Luke we saw in the OT was his clone”.
And while I’m ranting let me throw some more on top of the pile. Obi Wan letting Vader live. Obi Wan infiltrating the inquisitor’s fortress not even wearing a disguise and smuggling Leia out UNDER HIS COAT. No one noticing this except Reva, who was behind him, who then proceeded to deflect blaster shots from a ship, but had a hard time defeating 2 farmers with pistols. Obi Wan meeting Leia before ANH, and the idea that a ten year old would remember “now we can’t ever mention that we met before”. That Game of Thrones lady who was a spy for years and then immediately threw away her cover to help Obi Wan. Reva entering the “path” tunnel after Leia and somehow ending up at the end of the tunnel waiting for her. Vader putting out fire with the force and lifting Obi Wan, but then seconds later lets him go rather than put the second fire out or lifting the droid that’s helping him with the force. Those are just off the top of my head, and for the record I don’t watch these movies and shows with the hope of finding plot holes. I enjoy Star Wars and I watch hoping for a good story. I don’t want to look for plot holes and contrivances, but there are just too many things that make me say wtf that makes no sense, or c’mon man how is that even possible, and it just ruins the immersion. Edit: thought of another one. Reva discussing betraying Darth Vader with Obi Wan while they’re literally surrounded by stormtroopers.
I was super frustrated at the end of the series. I literally asked my fiance if the writers had even seen the original Star Wars. The Disney-Lucasfilm writers are awful. You highlighted exactly why Bale SHOULD have gone to the empire and the senate. If it gets revealed that the Empire was behind the kidnapping of senator, how would that have gone down for Palpatine? In other words, Bale exposing the kidnapping places the empire in a lose, lose situation. No need to contact Kenobi and place the whole plan in danger. The writers could have had many of the same plot points without using Leia. Introducing new characters would have introduced more tension into the story. They could have made the first six episodes a character arc for Kenobi getting his groove back without ever seeing Leia or Vader. Or, if Kenobi does encounter Vader, how much more of an impact would it have been to have him realize that he was actually fighting Anakin? Or it could have been a character arc for Reva, though her turning from the dark side and continuing to exist does create some issues. Like, why does Kenobi believe their is no hope for Anakin when he just saw Reva turn? Also, why does Kenobi say, "That boy was our last hope" when he knows a powerful force user exists? Perhaps something will happen to her later. In any case, lazy, lazy, lazy writing.
An investor actually asked the Disney CEO, word for word, "When is Kathleen Kennedy getting fired." She's a horrible leader, and somehow, someway, at least Rogue One is still a good movie worthy of canon while all the rest just... wasted the talent of many great actors and sfx teams.
I finally watched the series and this was my thought as well. If there hadn't been any Star Wars with those characters it could've been decent. But the writers literally seemed to have no clue about the rest of the stories and made a series that is not only redundant for the overall story and made some stupid choices (why did they choose Leia of all the people?!) but it made it even *worse* by creating new plot holes.
to be honest I really roll my eyes at modern disney's empire in the original trilogy, the first movie shows how relentless they are Leia had the smart idea to send the plans in a shuttle with droids because the empire was scanning for life forms but as soon as they realized the plans weren't onboard Vader is immediately informed that a shuttle was sent away and arrived instantly at the conclusion that the plans were in there, the empire movilized completely over Tatooine, found proof that there were droids, and got imperial soldiers looking for droids in citices close to the shuttle impact, if it wasn't for Obi wan mind control they wouldn't have gotten away, the empire was more than just having an unprotected base because ¨nO oNE wOuLdnE aS fOoLisH aS tO asSaulT It¨
It's especially galling for the Empire when just five years previous Cal Kestis broke in. And he actually had to use Nightsister magic invisibility to bypass the fleet and get in. So after being broken into, the Empire... lowered their defences...
@@onyxrose4349 I wouldn't know because, I couldn't play the game, but that sounds more like the actual empire, a fortress not anyone can just walk into (or out of with a comical coat)
@@SillyGirlKisser74 Especially when you get stopped at the gate to get in because you are supposed to be in a completely different sector but you somehow get in by telling the head of security for the level that you outrank him...
@@greco-romano9852 two scenes actually, Leia reaching the conclussion logically saying it's impossible to escape that easily so they must be tracked and then Vader talking to Tarkin confirming it to the audience that they are tracking the ship
@@orun0810 lmao it’s so bad that it’s literally laughable, but those writers were deadass serious that it was a fine scene. “So Obi Wan walks out with Leia under his trench coat, anyone see a problem with this” “Nope! Now let’s break for lunch, I heard the buffet is serving all you can eat paint chips today!”
@@DinDjarr1 yeah it’s like they’re trying to copy the original movies but they don’t care enough to pay attention to the details. For instance, Luke and Han infiltrate the Death Star. Wow, cool scene, let’s copy that and have Obi Wan infiltrate the inquisitor’s fortress. Except, Luke and Han disguised themselves as storm troopers. Obi Wan was just walking around the inquisitor’s fortress wearing Jedi robes. To make that scene work they needed every storm trooper and droid to magically turn the other way and not accidentally stumble across Obi Wan. They even had a scene where a droid was looking for him but he ducked so it stopped looking. Ugh. Why not just copy the whole scene and have him put on storm trooper armor so people who are watching it aren’t asking themselves how could he possibly wander around this fortress without getting caught.
I was really hoping for a well written, self-contained character study of Obi Wan. Instead, it was mostly a pointless rescue mission with a bunch of fluff and unnecessary characters, countless dumb moments and story beats, and some good but rushed stuff with Obi Wan and Anakin towards the end. By the end of it, I don't feel like I've gained a new perspective on the character of Obi Wan.
@Greg Elchert Yeah i know ppl are dumb. Sad face. Lucas sure. He had problems with immature CGI scenes and awkward dialogue beats. But main stories always had sense and underlying tone. I GUESS EVEN SOME FANFICTION HAVE MORE RERALISTIC DEPICTIONS as this shite.
@@sj4485 Yes Soprano-like show would be perfect i would eat that shit in second. Also what is more funny that show would be very ROI efficient. Because for that you would actually never actually leave set really.
Kenobi shows us again what happened to nearly all Star Wars projects since Disney took over: the Production was a MESS. Directors were fired, stories were rewritten or thrown away and the project changed from a Movie to a series. I dont hate KK at all, but its her job to plan these things and she failed yet again. Star Wars needs someone like feige, who has a Plan and sticks to it. First we had movies planed called a Star Wars Story, then we had a rian johnson trilogy, a DD trilogy and Solo and the sequels were pure chaos anyway.
My theory is she approves good scripts and ideas to get the ball rolling, actors on board ect. Then once production begins she alters the deal and adds the social agenda, ruining the scipts, plots and angering the actors and directors
We were SO CLOSE to getting a character study of Kenobi on Tatooine. Then the director was replaced, scripts were changed, and we got pure fanservice instead. Fuck.
Why do people hate Solo so much? I didnt think it was that bad. Same goes for BB. But trilogy is no part of Star Wars to me. Its the worst thing i have seen.
@@robertmorgan7624 i wasnt talking about if those Movies/shows were good or trash. I was talking about their production and all the stories that became public. You should read some of that stuff. Its crazy how many times they changed course or fired Directors
I feel it could’ve been better if Leia was replaced with a new character, probably a force sensitive child. It would’ve helped cover a lot of plot holes and made the show a little more fresh
This show makes me feel like the time I found a nice coffeemaker in a dumpster. The coffeemaker being Christiansen, McGregor, and the other actors reprising their old roles. But I'm not planning on climbing in the dumpster in hopes of finding more things I like.
First three were boring. But, I'll catch you up: Owen made a bunch of memes, Kenobi found out Anakin lived and then after they escape a locked down planet they get captured by Reva anyway.
dont forget vader letting kenobi go just because. tala had a rifle and a loader droid. vader had stormtroopers and the abilities to put the fire out again, crush droid, force grab kenobi back to him. but nope he just let him go. shoot forget the fire just force grab kenobi and drag him back to you. He just did it less than 1 minute earlier in same scene????
At this point, it’s safe to say that the characters in Star Wars have seen the movies and TV shows because that’s the only explanation for some of their knowledge or behavior. That and a multitude of reasons is why this series was the end of my caring about Disney Star Wars. Darth Vader would have just used a tractor beam and boarded the escaping ship like in A New Hope and would have snapped Reva’s neck on multiple occasions for her failures like Captain Needa. The lack of understanding of Star Wars was astonishing, even with low expectations.
Space balls level of stupidity was displayed throughout the show. I'm not even sure characters in this parody movie were as stupid as Bail Organa when he sent this message in episode 5. Even Space balls writers could not possibly come with that level of stupidity, it's unprecedented
There's also the whole she-got-stabbed situation. Qui-gon died because of a wound like that, and Maul only survived a similar fate because of his intense hatred of Obi-wan.
And somehow Vader was traumatized by his failure when he pulled the empty ship with the force, because he didn't pull the second ship, nor the Millenium Falcon on Hoth in the OT.
Why would the Grand Inquisitor argue with Vader? His entire purpose in the empire is to hunt Jedi and he’s willing to let a Jedi Master and former council member get away from him just to capture a handful of rebels? That is absurd.
And if he was operating under orders from the Emperor then why didn’t he say that? Vader would clearly defer to the Emperor’s wishes. Just say “Palpatine wants us to pursue the rebels not Obi Wan”, and Vader would have no choice but to relent. And that would have been interesting because instead of Obi Wan sacrificing himself to save the rebels, the opposite would have happened and he would have had to live with the fact that they died so he could survive. But, we all know why that didn’t happen, because it wouldn’t lead to the “rematch of the century”. They’re so obviously bending the story to get to certain spectacles when it should be the other way around.
@@leonrussell9607 yup ~ 6 Squadrons iirc (60 total fighters / 12 bombers). It’s like the Writers forgot the abilities of the 1600-meter long warship they are using 😓
The plot holes are a symptom of the problem, which is the insistence on using “assets” as you put it. There’s so little that can be done with Luke, Leia, Vader and Obi Wan at this point while remaining consistent with other canon featuring them. The only way to avoid inconsistencies would be to have storylines in which they didn’t interact. But Kenobi did the opposite, keeping them all together and causing the plot holes.
As much as I love watching the videos that tear into this series like a Rancor on a Twilek slave girl, I genuinely appreciate your fair and calm assessment of this show.
Ah Yes Disparu was on fire when reviewing this series ! When he started talking about the power of mighty Leia and how it worked in mysterious ways he cracked me up and I started laughing like a maniac. 😂
I have never thought about your disclaimer in the beginning of your vids about the differences in your personal tastes and thus the reflection in your viewers. But man did I really see it today when i went to a random suggested video by TH-cam and see how different the ppls comments and opinions were of being so calm and accepting of the inconsistencies. Like everyone there just wanted enjoyment and thus they were satisfied. But seriously i dont get how ppl dont want nice contiguous storytelling and more thorough writing. Like a good story keeps you grounded in the universe it sets up, not constantly asking questions/taking you out of the immersion.
I've theorized that there is a specific maturity required to make analysis of film and story. When I first watched the SW movies they were kind of fun adventure. Same with Indiana Jones and stuff. As I got older, watching these movies again and seeing interviews of George Lucas I came to view them a lot more deeply. I watched Blade Runner very young too. I hated it and thought it was whatever. I watched it older and it turned into one of my favorites ever. It's atmospheric and has a lot of things to say. My theory is that majority of people don't reach maturity. SW will always be fun mindless adventure.
@@Notarealchannelok I love blade runner and I would analyse it seriously, but I feel like I can accept some rather big plot holes in Star Wars. These two are my two favourites and I see them differently. They give me different things and thus I ask for different things from them when 2049 and all the SW projects come out now. Not saying you are wrong, but there is probably some ppl who is mature enough to understand and appreciate film like blade runner and at the same time seek mainly enjoyment from SW.
@@chungyang9925 I made a long essay explaining but it was unsolicited. Both Blade Runners were financial fails. Movies like Dune barely break even. Hardly anyone I can find likes those but they will go and watch trash like Jurassic Park Dominion. I am capable of enjoying things like Michael Bay movies for example, but because that is the intent. Even though up to this point SW has mostly gotten by Brand Recognition. If people only want to consume low effort non thought provoking content then that is all they will make. People like me, who were the die hards. Will just stop being interested. Star Wars mostly was reaching maturity. Until it was sold. I still remember SW 1313. It was supposed to be gritier and story driven. The prequels were really underappreciated. Things like Clone Wars and KOTOR have long since spoiled what I consider peak Star Wars.
This will sound mean but I honestly am starting to believe no one working at Lucas film has an IQ above 100 and for them jingle key entertainment is more than sufficient
This is a stories where objects can repair themselves automatically and in a matter of minutes. Tala's holster and Reva's lightsaber are in perfect condition mere minutes after having been broken or burnt. This is the level of consistency of this show.
Luke: "I care." Vader to Kenobi: "When I left you I was but the learner ..." (so far, we have yet to see how this statement was ever true) When Kenobi is "strike me down" by Vader, the Episode 4 New Hope version of Leia shows absolutely no loss or sadness for the old man. Just Luke seems to be affected by "That wizard's just a crazy old man."
Remember that flashback of Kenobi telling Anakin until he let's go of his need to.prove himself he'll remain a Padawan? That's how they went about that.
@@AndreVeaseyJr Yes, that does take care of 1 of the 2 issues if you think Vader was not proving to himself/Sidious that he was "over" Kenobi as a Master. The second issue is "When I left you ..." Anakin/Vader never did the leaving in any of the fights. I can't think of one scene where Kenobi wasn't the one to walk away after & including him departing Anakin to hunt down General Grievous. Above all and everything, I have been a huge fan since Star Wars (1977) and none of the additional content created since then has made me think less of it. But I do like talking me some Star Wars 😀
As for Leia, remember when the general tries to comfort her about losing her palnet and family, she says, "No time for sorrow"? That includes Obiwan, she's full on mission mode, and will likely cry about all of it later. Why else is she smiling so much at award ceremony right after losing everything she's known?
@@proble-matic8543 Yes, agreed that her response to Commander Willard's "When we heard about Alderaan, we were afraid that you were lost along with your father." was just as you pointed out. But when Tarkin told her that "In a way you have determined the choice of the planet that'll be destroyed first." her reaction and pleas and emotion as the planet blows up it was expressed. I think this backstory for Leia and Obi-Wan presented in this series does help to explain why Leia totally understands and verbally repeats Obi-Wan's undercover name "Ben Kenobi" during her rescue in SWe4. Something I've always pondered about over 40+ years. Is it lost on anyone that perhaps Disney was destined to own the SW universe given the fact that the female lead character is a Princess and often needs to be rescued? I mean these in a funny-strange sort of way.
@@davidpowers9023 her pleas were to NOT blow up the planet, maybe emotional appeal would work? afterwards, she knows it wont, so shes focused on the mission (and probly revenge)...also, everyone seems to forget when ben is cut down, they are being SHOT AT, not exactly a time to stare and cry. leia is being more practical than Luke, something we see through their time together on the DS, which makes sense as she has more xp in these types of situations (shown in rebels too). And at least this series explains why she might name her son "Ben"!
Not to mention outside of that supposedly impersonal formal message to Obi Wan from Leia... she still doesn't care when Obi dies or asks to meet him, nor Obi Wan offers to rescue Leia one last time personally... he went to turn off a tractor beam Nothing about this retcon series to the overall saga makes any sense
Bail Organa was one of my favorite side characters, but everything in this show turned him into one of the biggest idiots ever. Especially with the "Message to a possibly dead Obi-Wan."
My most recent theory is that there is also a multiverse of the Star Wars galaxy and that each movie/show/book takes place in a different parallel universe, which is similar to the others but slightly off.
You hit the nail on the head at the end: "Something doesn't have to be good to enjoy it" - which is totally true! Plenty of "bad" movies and tv shows that despite their glaring flaws I really enjoy. The problem with the Kenobi show is that if you even dare to point out that the show is "bad" by saying it is riddled with plotholes and contrivances, dues ex machines/no real stakes, terrible writing and dialogue, shaky cameras during awful fight scenes, etc. - the list can go on and on - people who enjoyed it will claim you are "sucking the enjoyment out of it". The level of mutual respect people who disliked the show give to those who did enjoy the show is not met with mutual respect by people who enjoyed the show - instead, they shit on any dissenters as "negative" or come up with ridiculous defenses like "Star wars was never that good" so they can grandstand.
@Michael T the prequels suffer from some of those same issues, though to a far lesser extent in my opinion. The prequels are “bad” films - I don’t think even the most hardened prequel lovers would dispute that. But that just furthers my point, as someone who likes the prequels (though with the fast forward button in hand) I still recognize the films are “bad” films with lots of problems. There are lots of “bad” film and TV that are widely enjoyed though, my problem lies where people try to gaslight you into believing a film is good simply because they enjoyed it, then castigate you as “negative” for daring to disagree with their opinion. In my opinion, the biggest difference between the prequel trilogy and “Disney starwars” (a term a use very loosely since every project is different, and I quite enjoy projects like Rogue: One, but I’ll digress) is that generally speaking the prequels had a solid idea and poor execution, while Disney starwars often have great execution but a horrible foundation. Whereas the prequels are a salad with a terrible dressing, the sequels are a salad where the dressing is great but the lettuce is rotten. I personally believe that bad execution with a great idea is preferable to a terrible idea with lots of spectacle - but that might just come down to different people want different things from film. I never grew up with Star Wars, my first Star Wars film was the Force Awakens - so Star Wars has no nostalgic value to me. I watched all the films with an open mind, and from a film perspective it is no doubt episodes 4-6 are far superior over the rest- but from a lore perspective, 1-3 have a lot to offer. I also recognize I went on a bit of a tangent, but I hope you can understand what I am getting at. Cheers!
@@Oppen1945 even after 40 years I believe the OT holds up amazingly well. In my opinion, it is beyond timeless - each time I watch it I enjoy it more than the last. I watched the film for the first time nearly 40 years after it’s first release, and I still thought it was a great set of movies! Flawless, of course not (though TESB is pretty close to flawless), but still far better than anything Disney has offered us - even the Disney Star Wars films I liked (including Rogue: One) are not nearly as timeless as the OT. I don’t think the OT suffered from all the issues I outlined, but even those it does suffer from are to a far less extent to what Disney has put out - and it’s not even close. By the nature of it, and “original trilogy” can not retcon itself - so no matter how you break it down, supporting materials will always be riddled with more plot holes and retcons as compared to the original materials. We could get into a whole discussion on why issues I highlighted are far less important / pervasive in the OT and prequels as compared to the sequels or other Disney Star Wars materials - but I suspect we are likely to agree on the topic.
@just_@l£x The Disney films used more CGI shot for shot and unlike George there was no innovative techniques. While it looks primitive today, the Death Star wireframe model was one of the first uses of CGI in a movie Jar Jar was the first motion capture character. There is none of that drive to innovate they just want to shoot in Jordan in front of a green screen.
@@emberfist8347 not to mention the phantom menace with the first ever (or one of the first big movies, I’ve heard conflicting evidence of this) movie to use digital film! With every movie, Lucas took the movie making industry into the future!
@Michael T *Sorry for a bit of a late response - I wanted to make sure to take the time to carefully go through your post since you clearly put a lot of time and energy into it. I’d also like to clarify I specifically brought up the sequel trilogy / Disney star wars because I feel Kenobi exudes sequel energy (this is seen most clearly in the interrogation room in Fortress Inquistorious, which looks straight out of episodes 7 & 8, but is prevent problem throughout)* *Also, I noticed you didn’t bring up music at all - I am of the strong opinion that the lack of John Williams music in the Kenobi show held it back significantly, so just assume that every sentence mentions something about how the lack of John William’s music makes everything worse LOL* “I'm really not sure if the prequels suffer from these problems to a lesser extent. There are many inconsistencies that could be considered plot holes. Leia remembering her mother, Obi Wan not remembering R2, Obi Wan never mentioning Qui Gon to the point you'd think he hates him, the jedi being a forgotten and ancient religion despite being practically famous and extremely active on the galactic stage 20 years prior.” *I think you bring up a lot of good points here - were some of these plotholes handled poorly, yes of course, but they are far from as bad as the plotholes created by Kenobi. I don’t even think you picked out the “worst” of the prequel plotholes/retcons, but I will provide a response to each: Leia remembering her mother could have been explained away by her truly believing that Bail & Breha Organa were her true parents (an explanation ironically made impossible by Kenobi); R2-D2 was Anakin’s droid & it’s just a droid, so it makes sense that Obi-Wan wouldn’t remember it nearly 20 years later (plus Lucas wanted C3P0 & R2D2 in the prequels since the movies are from the lens of R2D2, which I think most prequel fans agree is silly and purely for the purpose of merchandising & fan service); I am not sure if Obi-Wan really has a reason to bring up Qui-Gon the in OT since he is already dead, sure he mentions how Yoda taught him instead of Qui-Gon, but grandmaster Yoda did teach everyone (it is also explained in Episode 2 the lineage between Yoda->Dooku->Qui-Gon->Obi-Wan, with the motif that it is like a ‘family’), furthermore Obi-Wan only bring up Yoda because he is still alive to train Luke & (from the prequels) he was the only living being who had faced the Emperor; While I do agree the timespan between ROTS & ANH is very wonky, the Jedi were erradicated and charged as traitors to the Republic - it would make sense that until the return of Luke Skywalker many still saw the Jedi as traitors - not to mention their existence/leagacy was likely scrubbed by the Empire, something common among autocratic dictatorships.* *Now you can agree or disagree whether or not you think my responses to these retcons and plotholes are good or not (some are stronger than others, and honestly I probably didn’t even have to include them since they are just opinions), but what is important to identify is that none of these retcons or plotholes (which mind you occur across three films) have even close to a significant impact on the enjoyment & continuity of the OT, and are mostly benign (they don’t damage the main plot / story) as compared to the ones introduced in Kenobi which created huge gaping holes that you actively detracted from both the enjoyment of Kenobi as well as the continuity of the OT. I could literally go on forever listing the plotholes & retcons, but I will limit myself to the biggest two: Kenobi & Vader meeting again before ANH & Obi-Wan and Leia having a close relationship:* *Obi-Wan Vs Vader 2, electric boogaloo: For all the problems with the prequels, the final fight on Mustafar between Anakin (Vader) & Obi-Wan is largely regarded (even at the time per my understanding and research) and was regarded as the highlight of the trilogy (though I will respond to your comment later on flashy fights). Even if you didn’t like the scene, we can all acknowledge that was intended to be the last time Obi-Wan and Vader were in the same vicinity until ANH. Watching the scene of Vader and Obi-Wan facing off in the Death Star (imo) was greatly enhanced by their final stand-off on Mustafar. We understood Obi-Wan’s motivations, we understood why Vader lost (hubris), and most of all we understood how both of these characters grew into the Vader and Obi-Wan from the OT. As compared to their final dual in Kenobi, which beyond being less visually appealing than the fight on Mustafar due to poor lighting and shaky camera angles, is so poorly constructed from a story perspective that I would believe you if you told me it was ripped directly from a sequel fan fiction.* *#1, the rocks - they have had this obsession with Jedi throwing rocks since the release of the sequels - it is just stupid and terrible, and is not enjoyable to watch. This bothered me enough I had to list it on its own* *#2, a dramatic turn in the tide of the battle - Vader easily defeats Kenobi (you can argue who should have won, I am of the opinion at this point in his journey Vader should have, but I will digress) in the first act, literally burying him alive (another terrible scene imo). Not two minutes later, the writers would have us believe that just by thinking of Luke & Leia that he musted the power to not only escape certain death but was able to turn around and kick Vaders ass. It is just not a believable turn of events and is insulting to the audience.* *#3, But worst of all, Obi-Wan leaves Vader alive - AGAIN. At least the first time you can say Obi-Wan was stricken by grief, didn’t have the heart to kill Anakin, or simply wasn’t capable of striking the finishing blow and believed he was leaving Anakin to die - you can hold any of those thoughts on why Obi-Wan left Anakin/Vader alive the first time. But by this point, Vader proved to Obi-Wan that he has no part of Anakin left in him (something Obi-Wan MUST believe if the OT is to make sense since Obi-Wan did not believe Vader could be turned back to the light) and he proved himself willing to kill innocents to hunt him down (literally the job of a Jedi is to protect the innocent) - yet we are expected to believe Obi-Wan just left Vader alive out of pity. It just makes Obi-Wan seem like a huge dick when he later suggests Luke has to kill his own father in the OT - something Obi-Wan himself failed to due twice. Furthermore, we are expected to believe Vader (who now knows his former Master is alive) just lets him live because Palpatine said so (a lazy attempt at patching a gaping wound of a plothole). We are expected to believe that Palpatine, who LITERALLY sent Vader and the inquisitors out across the galaxy to hunt the remaining Jedi would just be like “Oh yeah your former master and student of Qui-Gon Jinn, that guy I wanted dead because he was too open-minded for the Jedi,- yeah just leave him alive out in the universe I’m sure nothing bad will happen”. Even if you take the position “Palpatine didn’t want Vader to fall back into being Anakin” or “Palpatine could see the future and knew that Obi-Wan would later train his replacement of Luke Skywalker”,- this entire chain of events is completely out of character for everyone and is an insult to the intelligence of the audience.*
Have watched a bunch of your videos lately, and am loving your disclaimer in each video. It doesnt come across as disengenuous but sincere. Its very refreshing to have someone with a very balanced and fair approach to opinion pieces on youtube. Have subscribed and will be looking out for your content 😄
Palpatine stopping Vader makes even less sense considering that he set off order 66, which leads to hunting down Jedi, having a funky bunch of Inquisitors etc. Pretty unlikely that he would call off the hunt in a moment when they have the supposedly strongest surviving Jedi at point-blank range.
The Empire characters' hunt for the Jedi is completely inconsistent. Sometimes Kenobi is the priority, sometimes it's catching rebels. It's whatever suits the script when they need a distraction.
and Vader spends the next 9 years having no idea how to find Kenobi, despite the fact that Reva showed him how, and despite the fact that Kenobi never relocated with Luke. wow, that's dumb
If you were to make a few minor adjustments and a slight reworking of the final episode, it would be totally possible to replace Obi-Wan with another rebel-aligned Jedi like Kyle Katarn due to how little this show actually has to do with Kenobi.
@@captaindc3889 Which I disagree to where it actually helped some plot holes be filled in. You see I look at some of the tinier details of things also when observing a show down to the body language and tone at times.
Months ago, when I read that the head writer was Joby Harold, and subsequently found he'd written nothing of real quality, that he was something of a hack, I started to have the famous 'bad feeling about this.'..how and why he not only got the writing job but inexplicably became an executive producer on the show too, I have no idea. Perhaps he was recommended by Pixar's Andrew Stanton who co wrote the finale. Why that happened too seems a mystery.
1:09 This feels incredibly accurate. Like with a lot of big franchises, it’s not viewed as a story like it was to George Lucas. It’s nothing but a cash cow to Disney, unfortunately, which is likely the core of why their Star Wars feels so hollow
@Purple Emerald Ofc they are defences like that. "Its children show" especially pisses me off. When is not good its simply not good. Disney will never get from mine hard earned money. They need to improve. PERIOD
Even though it is "Legends", the novel "The Clone Wars: Wild Space" did develop a proper friendship between Bail and Obi-Wan that I believe would have eventually led to their dynamic in ROTS and this series.
Imagine if Bail just went public and told the Senate about his daughter being kidnapped and the Inquisitors get into some hot shit politically. Even the Grand Inquisitor was chastising Reva for having the audacity to kidnapp an Imperial Senator's daughter.
The series acknowledges how stupid it was for Bail to not inform the Empire of all of this. This is like Thor Skywalker said, this show is weirdly aware of all of its plot holes, but decides to make nothing about it nonetheless.
And even the whole "it would draw attention to Leia" excuse doesn't make sense because she ends up becoming a senator! There would be a ton of eyes on her! That's far more riskier than just telling the Senate that she was kidnapped as a kid. I know there are ton of evilmum in the Empire but they had to keep up some form of appearance to care before the Death Star was ready. I feel as if the show both remembered Leia becomes a senator to praise her character only to forget it to allow the series to happen
Could have actually been a decent reason for the Emperor to dissolve the Inquisitorius and give an explanation as to why they don't appear to exist in the OT.
I'm sure this show was meant to be some sort of spiritual successor to Space balls. Yes, that must be it. Only this can explain all the shouting from Reva to make her look evil, why Vader is so incompetent throughout the show, all these comically bad scenes, all these plot conveniences... Maybe Reva watched Obi-Wan Kenobi on Disney+ to know exactly where that secret exit was, where that secret tunnel led, who the hell was Luke and why he was so important to the story? Yes, she also must have watched the original trilogy on top of it so she doesn't accidentaly kill Owen or heck, even Luke ! We gotta respect the lore continuity after all *wink wink*! Surely, the outrageously stupid message from Bail Organa in episode 5 must also be a reference to Space balls, even though I wonder which one it can be, as no character in Space balls was ever this unbelievably dumb, and there is fierce competition in this movie.
I just watched A New Hope today and I gotta say, the Obi-Wan series just doesn't make any sense in the story if you put it before this movie. There's so many little details that they missed and while watching the movie I was like " Did they really watch A New Hope ? " because my god did they create a lot of plot holes... I'm just gonna give you a exemple, in the movie, Ben says to Luke " I haven't gone by the name of Obi-Wan since, oh..., before you were born " meaning that after Revenge of the Sith, it's done, he forgot that name (and I guess only force ghost Qui-Gon would call him Obi-Wan at this point) and even Alec Guinness acted like he was shocked when Luke said that R2 was the property of a certain Obi-Wan Kenobi. It was like his past just came back to haunt him again. But in the Obi-Wan series, Luke is already born and is like 10, and how many times did people call him Obi-Wan during that series. Even Leia called him Obi-Wan lol. That is just madness.
Fans are gonna be like "no but he said this metaphorically, like before you were born spiritually as a jedi, you get it? Jeez, you really are nitpicking" Lmao just joking, but I know some people are gonna defend this no matter what so, let's just make fun of them
@@Oldstalkin my headcanon Alec's Obi-Wan has demintia. No Ben, Luke was already around when people called you Obi-Wan. No Ben, Anakin wasn't so good of a friend. Yes Ben, you owned a droid. No Ben, Yoda isn't your master.
Leia gets kidnapped, Bail notifies the ISB, show ends. He might not like the Empire, but he might as well make use of the resources he has available as a Senator. Failing that, Ahsoka. Failing THAT, well, Vader had Leia in his grasp by the time of ANH, and he didn't discover squat about her, so what's the worst that would happen?
Exactly. It did not make any sense to basically add fuel to the fire by asking Obi-Wan to rescue her. He was the last person to ask. Any bounty hunter would have done the trick honestly, Bail Organa is rich so there was no excuse. Not to mention, he also has guards and security on Alderan so just send them smh
I’ve been screaming to the sky “How the hell does Bail not get dragged in front of Vader and Palps and force interrogated/tortured them killed” What a joke. Execute Order 86 on darth Kennedy the woke.
What does being woke have to do with bad writing? What was woke about an old veteran coming out if retirement to save a little girl who is the daughter of his old friend? Or bad guys wanting revenge? Really it’s all just a bunch of action movie cliches, like the noble sacrifice of what’s her face with the thermal detonator or obi wan giving himself up (twice) to save others. It all could have been much better with just a few tweaks and some better choices. Instead it was kinda bland, very rote and ultimately forgettable.
@@russellharrell2747 It's more so that KK was focused on catering to the woke narrative than actually investing in good writers, researchers and directors. The snow ball effect is that quality in areas unrelated to "wokeness" became an after thought. I mean, come on! When Bob Iger says that The Force Awakens "feels like star wars" and not that it's "A return of star wars". The priority was pretty clear they weren't putting in the effort where it mattered. Thus, you get the problems with Kenobi which were present in pretty much every Disney Star Wars release.
Stop using woke, it’s a meaningless word at this point and stupid. What they are doing is purely for the sake of nostalgia and bait. They aren’t catering to some special group, they target sweaty Star Wars fanatics who wet their pants in excitement every time something connected to the prequels happens. You give them too much credit.
@@scottjs5207 yeah, I’m pretty sure Disney (and lucasfilm) has always been about making money, not art. Individuals working for the company do have vision and do care about making good stuff. It’s the same for any studio. And they also proved that if you have a beloved franchise that’s been around for decades you don’t even need to plan out anything for a trilogy of movies, just shoot whatever you want and each one makes a billion dollars.
@@zoom0451 i think defending literally everything in a show that is full of plot holes, contrivences, inconsistent characters, idiotic characters and events that either break continuity or stretch it to the absolute limit indicates you don't really care about Star Wars as a complete piece of competently created fiction, you just enjoy seeing laser swords and meme references
This is a very good series of you "watch it" while on the phone or doing other stuff. The moment you start paying attention to it and actually try to wrap your head about the story none of it makes any sense.
When you said the Empire seems to he stupid most of the time. That resonated very strongly with me since in my opinion a story is only as good as its villain.
I just had a moment of realization: in Star Wars Rebels, the episode where Ezra goes to Tatooine and meets Ben, doesn’t Rex say that Senator Organa confirmed Obi-Wan’s death after Order 66? As far as I know, nobody else has realized this. This creates a huge plot hole with both Rebels and the Kenobi show existing in the same continuity.
everything disney has mad e contradicts not just the OT and PT, but contradicts their own shit. As of now only the ot and pt are in the same continuity. No plans to watch the animated series, but someone had a video about how pablo's work good or bad is always contradictory. like Asoka's existence and being anakin's apprentice highly contradicts the pt and how the jedi felt about him.
@@vortexflash4944 You just mentioned one, them visiting Obi Wan on Tatooine. In fact they pretty much meet every original trilogy main character (Lando, Yoda, etc.) except for maybe Han Solo. There are three fully fledged Jedi, all more powerful than Luke, all running around plus Darth Maul, and Ahsoka almost kills Vader on her own, but they never consider just teaming up with Obi Wan and Yoda and finishing the job. Ahsoka and Ezra had to be disappeared for vague reasons just so that the original trilogy could even happen. It's a mess just like this new show is a mess.
@@TheMinskyTerrorist not too mention even Ashokas existence is very big stretch. In mine opinion animated stuff should never crossover with live stuff PERIOD.
Palpatine doesn't just tell Vader to stop hunting Obi-Wan because it's making him weak, Palpatine tells Vader, "If I sense anymore weakness in you, anymore conflict about your old past, I'm going to personally eviscerate every atom of your body." ... now sure, he doesn't use those exact words, but it's very strongly implied by what he does say, and how he says it. The Emperor can see that Vader is not as fully committed to the Dark Side as he should be (and therefore not as fully committed to him as he should be), and that his obsession with Obi-Wan is not just about vengeance and hate, but also because of that conflict within him ... and that is a threat to the Emperor's hold over Vader, *_one he will not tolerate._*
Yea, Vader always has conflict with his emotions when someone he cares about is around. This conversation with the Emperor was similar to the one in ROTJ. Vader informs Palpatine he feels his son was with the Rebels that just landed on Endor. The Emperor doesn’t sense it and wonders if Vader’s thinking is clear on the matter.
@@Oldstalk Okay, so how do you interpret the Emperor's words, and Vader's immediate scared $#!tle$$ response? V: "The probes are tracking every system within range, we will destroy everything in our path until *_he_* is found." P: "You seem agitated, my friend." V: "He will not evade me again." P: "I wonder if your thoughts ... are *clear* on _this_ , Lord Vader. Perhaps your _feelings_ for your old master have left you weakened?" (Scowls at Vader) "If your past cannot be overcome ..." (implied threat lingers tangibly in the air). V: (deep breath, sits back in fear), "Kenobi means nothing." (instantly abandoning his swore relentless pursuit and vengeance). P: (Smug triumphant smile) V: "I serve only you, my Master." Seems pretty clear to me.
I’m so happy somebody is pointing out why this series is not cohesive. I’m happy to see Ewan back, but clearly the story itself is not well executed. There are so many moments in this show where I’m gone “seriously?”
If Leia wasn't special, which Reva had no way of knowing, Organa could have gone to the Emperor and asked him to send Vader to rescue his daughter. Awkward. Vader who is in charge of the Inquisitors would find that one of his minions had arranged the kidnapping. The whole kidnapping plot is ridiculous.
@Greg Elchert my point was that Reva had no idea that Leia was special. If she was just some random girl that the Organa's had adopted they could have asked Palpatine to send Vader to rescue her only to find that it was an Inquisitor behind it in the first place. She had a girl kidnapped whose father had some connection to Kenobi 10+ years ago. The Empire was as likely to kill her for what she did as Kenobi was. It was an idiotic plan written by people that get their story in their head and then don't look at any other possibilities or potential drawbacks of their version. There was only a small chance that Organa would contact Kenobi about the kidnapping. He had many other options open to him and it was only becasue Leia is who she is, a fact that Reva didn't know, that he actually contacted Kenobi. Bad writing and bad understanding of the Star Wars universe that they own.
@Greg Elchert Then do not send Obi-Wan Kenobi to the rescue. Go hire some bounty hunter to do the job (even though the empire would have done it for free, as Organa is still a senator and the Senate is still powerful)
The more Disney Star Wars I watch the sadder I get. I was really excited to see Ewan and Hayden again and it was so hard to watch the terrible writing/story unfold. It’s crazy to me how little care and respect is going into some of these projects. The plot holes definitely drive me crazy. Thanks for the video Thor!
And some people are making excuses such as oh he learned that ability after he died. Uh, how? By reading a book that he couldn’t open as he was just a disembodied stream of consciousness? Maybe he asked the other ghosts in the force, and they taught him, but then if they knew why didn’t they manifest themselves as well? Why isn’t the universe already full of force ghosts if they can learn that ability after they die?
In the 'Master and Apprentice' short story from 'A Certain Point of View' it is revealed that after Revenge of the Sith, Qui-Gon continued his training and was eventually able to manifest himself, which lines up with the show.
@@chasehedges6775 Completely! And haven’t you noticed that we’re somehow in the minority with our views? The majority of the fans are eating it up and praising the writers in the comments sections of the official StarWars Instagram! It’s mind boggling!
I appreciate your graciousness towards fans in your critiques of Star Wars. People today seem to struggle with the notion that we can have different opinions of something and still respect each other.
What was Reva's reason to kill Luke? It was so random that he decided to kill him. Was it to simply piss off Obi Wan, or did she somehow know he was Vader's son.
@@JoshMcSwain Which raises a whole new level of question. Padme's pregnancy was not exactly something wide known, or at least that the father of these childs was Anakin Skywalker, a jedi.
The real Obi-Wan would NEVER abandon his responsibility to Luke for any reason, no not even Leia and her useless adopted father who should've had more sense given his position, the moment this happened you just knew where this series was going.
He did that in the Old EU however, that series called the Last of the Jedi was using Obi-Wan for two books so he could get the protagonist who was another Jedi survivor of the Purge out of trouble once and then he leaves to watch over Luke. While the other Jedi takes over as the main character as the series wasn’t about Kenobi nor advertised as such.
I'd love to know how Bail manages to not get arrested for treason in the 10 years between this series and ANH, after a Jedi shows up to save his daughter from one of the most important Imperial facilities in the galaxy. After a couple months in the bacta tank, why wouldn't Vader go straight to Bail, and torture him until Bail tells him where to find Kenobi? IMO, this series, if made at all, should have played out more like the parts of Book of Boba, where he's interacting with the Tuskens. He shouldn't have ever left Tattooine, it should have been a series about him losing is faith in the force, and finding it again through turmoils he has in the desert with the Tuskens.
People will tell you Vader did not know it was Organa's daughter and all of that but it does not make sense. Half of the inquisition knew what Reva did, most notably the grand inquisitor who was working with Vader from the beginning, everyone in the inquisitorius HQ also knew Obi-Wan saved Leia as Obi-Wan infiltrated the place, and certainly quite a lot of other people. So yeah, it does not make any sense. So much people are aware of it and nothing can justify them doing sweet nothing for 10 years
@@Oldstalk "Vader doesn't know it was Organa's daughter" Vader: *looks at the security footage* Yo guys, can we like search our records for who this girl is? Oh? Bail's daughter? Alright, bring him in then.
Believ it or not, its shown in ANH that empire doesnt have absolute power, even ten years after this show. First lines from Leia are about how Vaders illegal actions will make the senate act....and his officer agrees with her! A major point of the imperial meeting is how the emperor still has to work with the senate to control the galaxy, the whole point of the deathstar was to finally be able to rule through fear without the senate, so it could oppose him; not so hard to think that Bail cant be touched, but no reason to think he wasnt closely watched like Thor suggest, why not?
@@onyxrose4349 Nope the senate is still active at the beginngin of the movie, and Leia Vader and his officer all act like its still powerful. Palpatine gets rid of it sometime between then and the imperial meeting. You can just SAY its powerless, but the actual set up in the movie itself disagrees...after all why even get rid of it if it IS so powerless?
I think the fake Jedi guy, Hajs Estree, could have been used more in the show. That character had so much potential. He could have been a sidekick for Obi Wan that proved himself useful with his skills to deceive and use them to get OW out of trouble in unconvential ways. His character felt unique, novel and morally ambigous. His skills was put to use for good although his practices was questionable and exploitative, showing that in a post Clone Wars era the notion of good and bad had eroded away. All the "good" Jedi had been eradicated for treason against the very republic they had swore to service and protect with their life. The "bad" Sith triumphed and were now the "protectors" of peace and stability. Haja was my favorite character in the show since he exposed all the shades of gray that perhaps also subsequent Force users like Luke and Leia would have to contend with in order to navigate this new world and uncertain future. Afterall, everthibg do depend on "a certain point of view".
I liked him too, and indeed, in competent hands, it could have been a great dynamic. However, like everything else, he's underutilized and not relevant to the plot at all. If only this show had competent writers...
There's a sad trend among screenwriters today to write characters that have the same knowledge the audience does, even though the character has no business knowing what the audience knows. I don't know if they just don't know any better or if they are just too lazy to do better or if, for some strange reason, they think the audience likes it better that way, I don't know.
Rogue One had a perfect grasp of what every character/faction knew (not to self-plug but I have a video about it) and then Disney forgot all of that and traded it for toddler logic
@@localscriptman I can agree with you there and that's probably a big reason that, aside from The Mandalorian, Rogue One is the most universally beloved of the Disney Star Wars efforts. The large chunk of fans who need that kind of consistency in order to suspend disbelief don't end up getting pissed off and hating even the good parts because they were constantly being pulled out of the experience. While I personally have issues with Rogue One, feeling like characters magically had knowledge that they had no right to have wasn't one of them. The movie is also decently consistent within itself, even though I feel it didn't leave on the appropriate note to match the tone of the opening sequence of ANH.
The downward spiral will continue so long as people insist that you're not a "real fan" unless you gobble up every pile of garbage Disney shovels down your throat. It really amazes me how people think that what being a fan of any given thing is is just shutting off your brain and salivating over everything on which they slap a couple of words on.
Reva doesn’t hold up either. They had a blank slate character, one which they clearly desperately wanted to be well received and even launch a spin-off. But nothing about her makes sense. So she wants revenge on Vader because he killed the Younglings? She knows that he was doing it on order from the Emperor, I assume. So her plan is to join the Emperor and Vader in their mission to kill Jedi? That’s like a mob boss puts out a hit on your family and only you survive. You decide to take revenge by becoming an assassin for the mob, killing innocent families and children. Why not hide? Or join the rebels? Or set a trap by pretending to be a Jedi but ambushing Vader? There was seriously no opportunity to kill Vader? And why not go for the Emperor as Vader was just following orders? But fine, there her plan. So she decides the best way to get her revenge on Vader is to kidnap Leia and draw out Obi Wan? She could just skip that and say she found Obi Wan and plane a giant bomb on the site and when Vader comes blow it up. Was her plan for Obi Wan to kill Vader for her? But the strangest writers decision was that after she had betrayed Vader and the Empire, she goes to kill Luke. Why? How does killing a child get revenge on her escaping getting killed as a child? They wanted her to show mercy and have a change of heart but forgot to give her any initial motivation so the change is totally empty. We don’t know why she wanted to kill Luke so we don’t care when she changes her mind. The worst part of all this is that the good guys always decide at the last minute to not kill (Reva to Luke, Kenobi to Vader) and the bad guys are just incompetent (Reva to Inquisitor, Vader to Reva). It got old fast. It would have been far better for Reva to try to kill the defeated Vader but get killed by him and the still-alive inquisitor. And have Vader fed a concussion and forget about Leia.
I really enjoyed seeing Ewan portray Obi Wan again, but that was more or less it. The story was poor and seemed to rely too much on the 're-match' duel between Vader and Kenobi. Everything was totally engineered so that this could happen. Personally I think that the story would have been better without it, as it diminished both characters. I would have liked to see Obi Wan keep evading Vader, slipping through his clutches by the skin of his teeth and finally getting away. That would have left things open for a possible second series. My other gripes were Reva surviving being well and truly stabbed, and Obi Wan abruptly fixing his connection to the Force so that he could fight and defeat Vader. How did he manage this so suddenly?
Probably the same way that Ray suddenly got "awakened" to the Force in TFA. I got the sense that the force and "highlanders" are the same thing. Perhaps that is why no one ever dies to lightsaber wounds, except if they are sad or get their head cut off. Also explains the rule of two - "There can be only two!" 😛
I'm surprised more haven't caught on. Disney is using beloved ip's to push " the message". The kenobi show, just like most of the disney shows, was a vehicle to degrade loved characters and push new ones. The people writing these shows dont care about the product. In their own timeline, Bail has Ashoka working with him, why would he contact kenobi? This was character deconstruction in the same vain as jake skywalker. Kenobi show is a, canon destroying, abomination and should never have been made.
@@danielveres4351 opening scene, 2 jedi. The male goes down in seconds, female has heroic last stand. Show featured leia not Luke, the former was an adult in a ten year olds body. Every characters with agency were female. Kenobi was a failure, reeeva decided not to kill luke. Letting reeeva survive with her knowledge. This knowledge killed Maul. Vader was an idiot. Kkfilms hates Luke(white male). They've gone out of their way to degrade him and elevate leia. Check out the short of the death star escape. Leia did all the work. Luke was useless.
As much as I hate to say it I think it is not so much people not catching on but people no longer caring because by Disney Star Wars standards this is good show (which means shows like "The Mandalorian" are phenomenal by Disney SW standards.) I confess that I didn't think much about it because I have been desensitized by the dumpster fire that was the sequel trilogy. Yes, this show has its problems but if people aren't catching on I think it is because we have become so desensitized with bad writing given that the sequel trilogy was even worse on a whole another level.
I think they could've handled this the same way Timothy Zahn handled Luke and Mara in ~~Scoundrels~~ Choices of One (thank you Mr. Fisher): the two interact but never in person and so cannon is preserved. We get to see both characters do cool things in the same story without needing to come up with a more elaborate explanation for why they don't remember meeting later.
@@SFisher1993 I made the mistake of giving away all my Star Wars books years ago. Before the Dark Times. Before the Legends banner. I'm slowly trying to reacquire as many of them as I can; I have most of Zahn's books and a bunch of stuff I didn't have from the Bantam era, along with the bootleg Star Wars book that got self published at cost a year ago, which was sadly the last thing I read even if it's what started my collection anew. My plan is to get the NJO books again, along with as much of the old Clone Wars project; those were my childhood and those, for me, are how I choose to remember Star Wars.
“Remember kids: in Hollywood it doesn’t matter if it’s high quality, it only matters if it makes money.”
Mark Hammil
The thing is that a lot of disneys projects aren’t making as much money as they could be. Last Jedi and rise of skywalker each made a billion dollars but they should have hit 2 billion like force awakens
This comment hits like a thousand trucks
Shock Mark that's dark, but true to a lot of peeps.
@@rocklight1304 💯
Mark is truly wise.
Leia doesn't even react when Vader kills Kenobi on A new hope. She took the "don't tell anyone that we know each other" to the extreme XD
Facts! 😅😂
She saw Kenobi disappear. She’s a bit more familiar with Jedi stuff than Luke is, she may have been hoping he was pulling a vanishing act and somehow survived. But then she also was just a few hours away from having witnessed the total destruction of Alderaan. Including her family, friends, etc. Who knows how she’d react. She’s also seen Kenobi willing to sacrifice himself several times. I dunno, I hate prequels, they will either mess with canon or overtly reference canon to an annoying degree. We can’t have original stories with original characters anymore. Even Mando’s sho got taken over by preexisting characters.
@@russellharrell2747 In true canon she never met kenobi dude stop trying head canon or Disney canon kiddo, also even Vader was very surprised when obi wan just disappeared after a saber strike so don’t try and justify Leia and her reaction from the 1st Star Wars film all because of this damn show dude
@@russellharrell2747 There’s really no reason to try so hard to twist the narrative into something barely believable, bud. It’s just that bad and they’re just that lazy or stupid. You are putting more effort into the show right now than they did.
@@decayedparadigm calm down, it was just an exercise in attempting to make the show fit. Obviously ANH is still the same movie it’s always been. Even RotJ attempts to retcon ANH with Ben telling Luke he wasn’t lying, just that it was the truth from a certain point of view. Luke even calls him out for how hypocritical it sounds! They didn’t stop lucasfilm and later Disney from continuing to retcon the previous films while attempting to gaslight us into believing it’s not a retcon at all.
I was trying to express that I hate that I can write all of that to justify the Kenobi series’ blatant attempts at retconning so easily thanks to decades of being encouraged to do so every time a prequel or sequel or cartoon did the same thing. It’s nothing new, and it’s not even as blatant as the worst examples (primarily Palpatine’s return in TROS shitting on the OT).
Kenobi was just another mediocre streaming show that had a few cool scenes but was ultimately pointless. Instead of being an introspective look into Ben’s struggles following his exile and how to come to terms with a Galaxy without Jedi, and perhaps even an adventure in which he discovers some lost Jedi as either survivors of order 66 or another group that was cut off from the Galaxy decades before, we had a highly improbable adventure with characters that shouldn’t have met up earlier than we are in ANH, getting into situations that force characters to make dumb decisions over and over.
It doesn’t matter. SW to me is still 2 great movies, one ok movie that never quite ties up the story satisfactorily, and a bunch of other shit that I can take or leave.
"Most of what I did enjoy was surface level or nostalgia inducing fluff. And when you look past that what you're left with is a story that doesn't make sense and only exists to use characters like Obi Wan, Darth Vader, and Leia as the assets Disney views them as."
SPOT ON!
Thor clearly gave this show a chance and tried to like it. He is a man with integrity.
And isn't that the irony? How much more valuable would these "assets" be if they were actually GOOD Star Wars that respected the Story as It Already Exists (that is, canon)?
What if they did a "young Leia" series as she begins getting involved in the Rebel Alliance as a teen (Disney does have a stable of teenage female talent)? We know from Star Wars that Leia _has_ met Vader before and that Ben _hasn't_ seen Vader since the end of Episode 3. You could have shown THOSE interactions!
What if the "Obi Wan" series actually did what the Obi Wan novel did? What if Boba Fett was actually about Boba Fett instead of whoever that was in the Boba Fett series?
How much more POPULAR would those shows have been, how many more subs would Disney+ have gotten if fans discovered that Disney/Lucasfilm were actually making GOOD Star Wars?
They want to make this franchise a MONEY MAKER, yet they keep _intentionally_ alienating the people most likely to SPEND MONEY on the franchise and get other people invested.
@@liljenborg2517 "Is the dark side stronger?" "No, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯 EXACTLY
And who cares. It was better than the ST so that’s a win in my book.
Kenobi: “That boy is our last hope.”
Yoda: “No. There is another.”
Kenobi: “Oh yeah, Leia. Forgot about her…”
Their relationship makes no sense, Leia getting excited for Ben Kenobi is because having a Jedi on your side is the best news you can hear obviously.
But decades from now she'll name her son after his alias because he meant so much to her. Couldn't name him Obi-wan though because she still has to keep their relationship a secret. lol
@@RumplestiltskinGaming Maybe she did it for Luke
@@seriousnesstv7902 yeah, in the original continuation for the movies (before Disney bought it), Luke's son was actually called Ben Skywalker, since Ben ACTUALLY meant a lot to Luke
@@xicufwm And that makes much more sense…
I feel like Leia should have never been in this series. It should have been a deeper look at Obi-WAN’s trauma and guilt, juxtaposed against Vader. Also, Obi-Wan trying to connect with Qui-Gon
I would have thought it was cool and interesting. Lots of flashbacks and memories, lots of struggles with surviving in the desert... but to most it would have been boring I think. 😞
Luke coulda also gotten in plenty of trouble n Ben saving him in secret...there was so much Canon material to work with but disney sure loves being creative n fixing things
@@ertymexx exactly these people only want nostalgia and action instead of an intense physiological horror with Obi wan haunted by his past and one day over coming it through Qui gon
What I wanted was
1) Obi-Wan making himself a decoy/person of interest anytime the Empire got within a hemisphere of Luke. Basically he invents the persona "Ben" Kenobi as a non-Force using distant relative of Obi-Wan...but he creates rumors about Obi-Wan appearing in other places. Whenever the Empire comes sniffing around, he works to throw them off the scent
2) Obi-Wan aids the Hutts in expanding their control of Tattooine, working behind the scenes as a middleman to set up deals between the Hutts and the Empire. Obi-Wan's justification is that the Hutts aren't looking for Jedi, so if they have control of Tattooine (with the blessing of the Empire), there will be less for Obi-Wan and Luke to worry about
@@ertymexx >>but to most it would have been boring I think
The worst part: they're getting away with it.
They're not only getting away with it, but people are going out of their way to insult people who speak out about these plot holes. Nostalgia is capable of incredible things. This is a horrible time to be a hardcore Star Wars fan.
And it’s crazy because Disney was so successful with the MCU. You’d think they’d just copy that same template for Star Wars. Have one person in charge coordinating all these different projects. Make sure that the stories don’t conflict with each other or the existing lore. Build characters up slowly so we have a reason to care what happens to them. Have your big spectacles but make sure the stories that connect them are logical. I don’t understand how they can get it so right with the MCU and yet so wrong with Star Wars.
What you said doesnt make much sensei, i mean theres people wo are insulting people who liked the show to, because for the same reason, nostalgia
#CancelDisney
@@ErikDayne they were now #KevinFaggy is #WokeBroking Marvel
But it can't be nostalgia alone. Even people with Star Wars nostalgia can recognize bad writing as what it is.
It is either low standards, or unwillingness to admit what Disney ownership has done (and is doing) to ST.
I like how it ended with scenes of characters basically telling each other to pretend like the events of the show never happened.
And that is what Lucas and the new writers should do turn it into a Nightmare of Kenobi in the Cave totally Retcon everything and start over
Even the emperor had to tell Vader to chill out and stop looking for Obi-Wan because he now has, and I insist on this, litteraly every mean to find him. He knows Reva kidnapped Leia and that it successfully made Obi-wan show himself. I'm positively mystified that so little people actually took notice of all of this nonsense
Reminds me of when Pam Ewing opened to shower door to find out that Bobby Ewing was still alive, even after they did a whole season where he was supposed to be dead.
The characters, neatly mirroring the fanbase elect to pretend the story didn't exist.
Ahh, you subscribed!! Now... This is not the show your looking for...
The fact that Kenobi had the chance to kill Vader but just didn't is ridiculous, especially when he tries to gaslight Luke into killing him years later.
You're quite correct, and this is my biggest problem with the show. Obi-Wan should have at least _tried_ to kill Vader. Maybe something happens that stops him, but he should make the attempt. Otherwise it makes no sense why he's convinced Luke has to do it later.
Imagine if they had the balls to kill Vader right there and end the series with a teaser for the remake of the original trilogy..
The internet would explode, the war on Ukraine would stop, the universe would stop moving, lol 😂
Good point. I was too busy cringing at every other aspect of this show to even consider this.
Yes agreed he should’ve proceeded to strike the killing blow then all of a sudden he hears Qui Gons voice! Obi Wan Nooooooo!!!!! Then at the last minute Obi Wan shuts his lightsaber off. Would’ve been sooo much better that way.
@@Napoleonic_S remake the original trilogy 🤯
Don’t give Disney any ideas
Someone please explain to me what was Reva's line of reasoning to go to Tatooine to kill a small boy, based on nothing more than a garbled message? What did she hoped to achieve by killing with a lightsaber a small boy? To make Obi-Wan go revengeful mad? The decision can't have anything to do with Anakin because she did not know Luke was his son.
I don't really know. It isn't explained in the show at all I believe...
I think it's one of those, "Generational trauma" type things.
Reva had the same thing happen to her, she was raised into a, "What if Anakin grew from a darkside perspective from the get-go instead of a lightside perspective", and she was conditioned into repeating the trauma that resulted in her person.
Luke was just someone she could mirror herself on because she heard "Child" and that triggered this whole ordeal.
If I remember correctly she picked up the hologram transmission janky jank that Obi Wan dropped, the one from Senator Organa, in which I believe he mentions that Vader can’t find out about the boy
Completely retarded imo, but at the end of the day I feel like you guys are critiquing the wrong things here. It’s like you guys watched the show drunk and wanna critique it
@@greco-romano9852 Conditioned? What did she do after getting out of the temple?
@@jacob5395
It's assumed by the Grand Inquisitor's inference that she was taken to be conditioned into their ranks.
What also shows a lack of care is the editing. They have some clear moments when editing could compensate for the contrivances in the script:
- Reva could attack Vader while he tries to force pull the ship, knocking some sense into Reva's plan and explaining how the refugees barely escape (no need for a second ship).
- Obi-Wan could feel Luke's distress during his duel against Vader, explaining why he must flee immediately rather than finish off Vader.
I don't mean that these two points would salvage this garbage of a show (Obi-Wan would still be too far to reach Tatooine in time), just that they could occasionally make it slightly less stupid, but they didn't even try.
It looks cheap... Bad FX and SFX (besides Vader)
@@flaviomonteiro1414 He does look small though.
Man you are a genius!!!! How something so simple and they just ruined it
And you forget something about the edition
The music!!!! It was just terrible, generic and dull
Music in Star Wars, is as a character itself
Just look the scene (that was copied) from Rebels, when Vader has half his face exposed
Gotta admit, was powerful in Kenobi, but at Rebels, the music behind, made it X10 better!!!!!
Or remember the last 4 episodes of The Clon Wars, my God!!! The music was so haunting, there were entire scenes where nobody talked at all, just the music passing by
In Kenobi series.......
There are just two scenes, when Leia holds hand with Kenobi, and the flashbacks between Anakin and Obi-Wan
The rest I forget, nothing good
Your first line isn't really an editing issue, for Reva to attack Vader mid ship force pull you have to block it and shoot it that way. You can't just edit it after they shot the first way to make it the second way. I agree it's a much better way to handle that, vs a stupid decoy ship, but that's not editing. You're only editing what was shot with intention.
Also agree on making it slightly less stupid, I use the word sophistication because I do think these legacy characters deserve some decent script writing scenarios.
Or just don’t make a shitty show and leave these beloved characters alone. Because every time they touch this franchise, they further dilute and destroy the established canon. Even Mandalorian has this problem, and that show is mostly great. It has a few big issues, though, and the best thing for this franchise right now, as far as I’m concerned, really should just be to leave it alone.
The writers didnt even remember that Star Destroyers have tractor beams and Tie fighters. They are not qualified to write Star Wars.
I cant understand how they dont have a lore team or something like that.
People that just tell the directors: you really shouldnt do it this way
When they had to choose between Leia and Obi Wan I just straight up laughed, like what just get a couple of star fighters to keep track of them but no that was impossible for the big and scary empire. Also Obi-Wan when he "defeated" Vader just flew straight through the Star Destroyer without any hesitation, like where was it? It just disappeared out of nowhere. It's either the writers are way too lazy to come up with something or they just completely forgot about it. Happens multiple times throughout the show
I was thinking the same thing. Literally the first shot of the first Star Wars movie, the same Star Destroyer just snatches the Tantive IV with a tractor beam and brings it into its hanger bay.
When they’re making a new MCU movie, the studio assigns them a lore advisor to make sure the new movie doesn’t contradict with the story that’s already been written. Seems like Disney Star Wars could benefit greatly from being ran like the MCU. Mostly, have someone in charge who actually cares about the source material and wants to get it right.
Vader didn’t want the star destroyer nor tie fighters to destroy the republic ship because obi wan was on it but they definitely could’ve shot down the fighters that helped them escape from the fortress inquisatorious.
1. Luke lives because a maniac had her special moment at the right time.
2. Leia was an overpowered 10 year old with the same personality as with 20.
3. Kenobi was a useless, forceless coward for 10 years.
4. Kenobi beats Vader in straight 1 vs 1 combat.
5. Reva is better than Anakin, because she could turn herself from the Darkside without any help.
6. Bail Organa is more stupid than Jar Jar Bings.
7. Aunt Beru nearly got Luke killed out of pride
8. There is a rebel organisation that gathers people with the force, but the rebellion doesn’t have any force wielding warrior 19 years later except Luke.
9. there are inquisitors that hunt Jedi and use the force in public, but nobody even believes the force or Jedi exist 10 years later.
Hold up. Dont insult mine homie Jar Jar. xD
Anyone who escaped the empire using The Path probably never joined the rebels and just tried to live normal lives.
Aunt beru probably got her and Owen killed in ANH because of pride, just like in that Troopers fan film.
Reva never killed younglings, and refused to do so even to get revenge. I don’t think she was all that into the dark side anyway.
Bail is definitely dumber than jar jar.
Most people probably believe ‘Jedi’ and other ‘force’ users merely use magnets, ray shields, and other gadgets to appear to be using some unseen Force. Han even says it’s just a bunch of simple tricks and nonsense, and that appears to be the prevailing view of at least the outer rim.
Only the Force wasn’t known to exist. The Jedi were remembered but as charlatans.
@@emberfist8347 I’m pretty sure there were quite a few imperials that knew the force was real. Vader choked a lot of dudes.
Most nobodies in the Galaxy would have never seen any force sensitive people, much less Jedi. Han Solo might be a typical spacer in that he’s very cynical about everything, but especially the force.
Luke of course would have NEVER been told about the Jedi by his family, and his friends would only have known bed time stories at best, and that’s not the kind of things kids or teens care to discuss among themselves. The only way he’d had known about the Jedi would be through imperial holonet news.
It’s easy to believe the Imperial propaganda when it’s a fact that the Jedi were slaughtered en mass in one day with just a small handful surviving. The supposed super warriors who controlled a mysterious and all powerful Force that allows them to know the future were all surprised by their own troops. Overnight their reputation would have been shattered. Deemed traitors to the republic and the new Empire, they would have easily been branded charlatans and even fools.
@@russellharrell2747 Only the Imperials who personally knew Jedi knew it it was real.
Did the writers just forget that Tie fighters exist? Seriously a bunch of the Empire’s problems would be solved if they just sent out some tie fighters.
Kenobi and Leia escaping the planet? Send some tie fighters. Kenobi and Leia escaping the fortress? Send some tie fighters. Choosing between Kenobi or the rebels? Send some tie fighters. Kenobi flying away after his and Vader’s duel? Send some tie fighters (or even just use the Star destroyer you have in orbit)
I don't think they forgot about the TIEs. pretty sure I saw a bunch in the Inquisitor fortress. What they forgot was that TIE pilots exist.
They can't have TIE Fighters for that exact reason - if they acknowledge they exist, they have to write proper, intelligent stories to explain how those things happen, which would require effort and time consuming things like script editing and redrafting, which Disney didn't hire them for. As far as Disney showrunners are concerned, if something isn't on screen, it doesn't exist
To be honest, I always thought TCW actually missed an opportunity to show Kenobi serving Bail during the Clone Wars. And I don't mean in the larger "all Jedi served the Republic" sense. Leia's words in ANH, and then Bail's in R1, always made it sound like Obi-Wan served him on a more personal level than that. Something like commanding an army in defense of Alderaan itself from a Separatist invasion.
We do seem him do that. Cat and Mouse had Obi-Wan saving him during the Battle of Christopsis
@@emberfist8347 Obi-Wan saved a lot of people. That doesn't mean he "served" them.
@@StarryDrukhari you’re looking at this from the wrong point of view. Yes Obi-Wan might be like “it was nothing, all part of my job.” But if you’re actually the one being saved, in this case Bail, then that’s a massive moment in your life and it feels like a pretty big contribution.
Similarly, firefighters save lots of people, but out of those lots of people, occasionally some of them feel so thankful that they might track down the firefighter that saved them in 5, 10 or 20 years for a reunion and to properly thank them, introduce them to the family they have now that they never would have had without being rescued etc.
There's a cool book about that (the clone wars : wild space), but it is now legends I believe
TCW is a boring meh show. It should have been in Episode II.
The scene that really sticks out to me the most is when Reva, an Inquisitor with a spinning lightsaber who can literally just use the force on people, has a “battle” with Owen and Beru. 😐
And good lord, does not kill any of them. Of course she can't, else it would be a bigger plot hole than anything else in this series, but it does not make sense for her character
I guess you missed the part where the 10 year old runs away and the jedi master who bested Grievous couldn't keep up with her.
I didn’t want this to be the case, but personally, I literally can’t overall accept or even reconcile this show as canon no matter how hard I try, and something tells me that I’m far from alone on feeling this way.
feels so shoe horned in and not respective of EVERY line of the originals and canon. i still like vader and kenobi scenes but dear god there was too much contrivences and holding back of characters, Like vader not killing riva the moment she failed regardless of the tracker
I think that, to Disney, canon is an obstacle to be overcome. Sad.
Honestly, I was completely in the camp of Disney isn't canon, Legends is, by the end of TLJ. Sad thing is that there are plenty of Disney canon things that I enjoy quite a lot, but things like these things just ruin the overall universe for me.
You're definitely not alone. Don't think I'll be considering this series canon either.
Right, the content is way too stupid and contradictory.
The praise for this series is mind boggling to me🤯
It's mostly just astroturf. Disney does that. A lot
Yes mostly young youtube reactors are saying how amazing this show is
Ive been slated on twitter for calling this show out
Same, dude. From the first 10 minutes, I could tell this was gonna be an absolute shit show. I'm so disappointed. It's ONLY watchable because of Ewan. Even if he just came back for the paycheck, I'm glad he did. I feel like Disney is careless enough to replace him if necessary, and that would've made the show a 1/10
It's praised due its elevation of women and minorities. That's why Disney do it. Its their protection from criticism. If you don't like it you're dismissed as a bigot. Sadly many young people have been brainwashed by this nonsense. Its literally taught in schools and infests twitter and tik tok.
Thanks to this show making Bail Organa an idiot, it makes no sense how the empire didn’t arrest him and his family before ANH for treason or at the very least had him under HEAVY surveillance since his connection to Kenobi was exposed by the Inquisitors.
Oh and remember that Ashoka is still active in this time period slowly organizing Rebel Cells, there is NO reason why Bail immediately doesn’t try to seek her out given that Obi-Wan’s only priorities should be watching out for Luke and his training in the force.
And let’s not forget about Reva who is a walking time paradox, there is absolutely NO way she should have survived that stab wound as a child let alone survive Order 66 as a whole.
Every time Disney goes back to that event, they somehow manage to make it less tragic as it actually should be.
All this show did is complicate the time period between EP3 and EP4, A New Hope feels incredibly muddled if you have to take the events of Kenobi into account.
The best way to make everything in perfect canon: after Kenobi Series, Man In Black erased the memories of all people involved. The End.
And I thought he was supposed to go to tatooine to protect Luke according to the message
Not only Bail. Obi Wan is dumb. Vader is dumb. Reva is dumb. Only 10 yr old Leia is the smartest! Smh
“Hey Obi Wan. I know we said no communication but I haven’t had any communication from you and I’m worried, so I’m gonna to send you this communication. I’m worried you’ve been captured and this device could now be in the hands of the empire, so let me confirm that I’ve been conspiring with you and unnecessarily add details about our other conspiracies, such as how Luke is on Tattoine”- Bail Organa
@@DinDjarr1 no the best way is to make the kenobi series non-canon, because its literally canon-breaking
Let's not forget how Leia has literally no reaction to Ben's death in ANH. She had this experience with him while Luke barely knew him but it's Luke that is the most distraught over Ben's death. Leia says nothing about what a great man he was. And why did Ben's ghost never appear to Leia?
Well, to be fair, Leia hugs Rey after Han Solo dies and snubs Chewie. So it’s par for the course In Disney Star Wars.
To be fair, my dad died when I was 10, when I was 19 it felt like I never had a dad. I remembered glimpses, sure, but if I saw him on the street I would have problems recognizing him.
Does she react when her parents and entire civilization is blown up? No. Understand her character instead of choosing to be an idiot
I mean she was also pretty stoic when Alderaan was destroyed so……
I have always loved Obi-Wan, even as an old man in A New Hope. This series hurt my heart, I wanted a quiet look into his loneliest time or perhaps a show that turned him into a mythos of Tattoine. Like a lone warrior protecting water farmers and small villages from their day to day struggles with sand people and the hutts. The show they gave us was just stuff happening, its like they think we need an action scene every minute or we'll become bored.
They expand more of what we wanted in the show in the Obi Wan comic book which is the canon version
It would be torture for Obi-Wan on Tattoine because there's so much evil and he would not be able to do anything, lest he draw attention to himself and to Luke. If any word got out of a Jedi, the Empire would be there... combing the desert! lol. But really, there's nothing he could do. And we know by the state of things in ANH, he didn't do anything.
@@-taz- "Comb the desert!"
*comically large comb*
@@zathary564 "We ain't found shayit!"
@@JonathanGaeta There was no way the Obi Wan series was ever going to be good. Obi Wan Kenobi was always a dull, flat boring and underdeveloped character. In the comics he is an unsuffereable Mary Sue of the worst kind.
The writers have to rely on squeezing every last modicom of sympathy out of the audience by creating Woobie Wan Sad-Sads, a pathetic figure who suffered more than anyone who ever lived, but his "infinite suffering" serves no purpose except to garner sympathy. It does not further the plot or develop him as a person, because Obi Wan cannot be fixed. He has no personality, no real character. He's an overrated cliche who never should have had his own series.
You know it’s bad when the series expects you to believe that Reva survived being stabbed TWICE by DARTH VADER.
She wasn't stabbed twice, she played dead as she said in the episode. She only got stabbed the one time as an adult.
It's like the writers don't even get lightsabers & are probably to lazy not to do their research.
@@liamphibia We have seen people live through stab wounds before like with Cal Kestis in Fallen Order.
@@achaudhari101 She got stabbed as a youngling as we clearly saw in Reva's flashback.
@@achaudhari101 bro she was stabbed as a youngling. You can’t play dead if your literally the one un injured body in a room of corpses being patrolled by highly trained soldiers and the guy whose killing all your friends.
In the finale, OT Vader would’ve pursued Obi Wan in his tie fighter and commanded the Grand Inquisitor to continue pursuing Leia and the Rebels to Alderaan and have the planet attacked
Do we ever see any TIE fighters? Vader might not have gotten his TIE Advanced craft yet.
Still, the shuttle Vader used to land on the planet is perfectly capable of perusing Obi-Wans ship, the shuttle even have hyperdrive in addition to lasers and shields.
And you know, deploy at least *some* of the 72 TIE fighters to disable the ship.
@@andrewspears8891 those stormtrooper transports probably had torpedoes and ion cannons. They could probably even board the ship after disabling it.
The Devastator a Star Destroyer that can't! destroy a thing... Those turbolasers are capable of leveling cities, but can't disable a ship.
@@ИванСнежков-з9й No Vader would have his TIE Advanced by this time.
For the people who are ok with Reva getting stabbed and just walking away, I wonder what it would take for them to say “oh that doesn’t make sense”. Like honestly.
Maybe Reva killing Luke would have been a little bit too extreme, even for these people. I'm sure however some would still have defended it
@@Oldstalk don’t give these people any ideas. I can already picture them killing an established character before they are supposed to die and just explaining it with “cloning. Dark science. Secrets only the Sith knew. Reva did kill Luke, the Luke we saw in the OT was his clone”.
Literally nothing. If you want to love something so bad, you will do mental gymnastics till the cows come home to keep loving it
She walked away from the same wound that was fatal to Qui gon Jin, twice, once as a child
And while I’m ranting let me throw some more on top of the pile. Obi Wan letting Vader live. Obi Wan infiltrating the inquisitor’s fortress not even wearing a disguise and smuggling Leia out UNDER HIS COAT. No one noticing this except Reva, who was behind him, who then proceeded to deflect blaster shots from a ship, but had a hard time defeating 2 farmers with pistols. Obi Wan meeting Leia before ANH, and the idea that a ten year old would remember “now we can’t ever mention that we met before”. That Game of Thrones lady who was a spy for years and then immediately threw away her cover to help Obi Wan. Reva entering the “path” tunnel after Leia and somehow ending up at the end of the tunnel waiting for her. Vader putting out fire with the force and lifting Obi Wan, but then seconds later lets him go rather than put the second fire out or lifting the droid that’s helping him with the force.
Those are just off the top of my head, and for the record I don’t watch these movies and shows with the hope of finding plot holes. I enjoy Star Wars and I watch hoping for a good story. I don’t want to look for plot holes and contrivances, but there are just too many things that make me say wtf that makes no sense, or c’mon man how is that even possible, and it just ruins the immersion.
Edit: thought of another one. Reva discussing betraying Darth Vader with Obi Wan while they’re literally surrounded by stormtroopers.
I was super frustrated at the end of the series. I literally asked my fiance if the writers had even seen the original Star Wars. The Disney-Lucasfilm writers are awful. You highlighted exactly why Bale SHOULD have gone to the empire and the senate. If it gets revealed that the Empire was behind the kidnapping of senator, how would that have gone down for Palpatine? In other words, Bale exposing the kidnapping places the empire in a lose, lose situation. No need to contact Kenobi and place the whole plan in danger. The writers could have had many of the same plot points without using Leia. Introducing new characters would have introduced more tension into the story. They could have made the first six episodes a character arc for Kenobi getting his groove back without ever seeing Leia or Vader. Or, if Kenobi does encounter Vader, how much more of an impact would it have been to have him realize that he was actually fighting Anakin? Or it could have been a character arc for Reva, though her turning from the dark side and continuing to exist does create some issues. Like, why does Kenobi believe their is no hope for Anakin when he just saw Reva turn? Also, why does Kenobi say, "That boy was our last hope" when he knows a powerful force user exists? Perhaps something will happen to her later. In any case, lazy, lazy, lazy writing.
An investor actually asked the Disney CEO, word for word, "When is Kathleen Kennedy getting fired." She's a horrible leader, and somehow, someway, at least Rogue One is still a good movie worthy of canon while all the rest just... wasted the talent of many great actors and sfx teams.
@@scottjs5207 in fact?
@@scottjs5207 where did you hear this?
I finally watched the series and this was my thought as well. If there hadn't been any Star Wars with those characters it could've been decent. But the writers literally seemed to have no clue about the rest of the stories and made a series that is not only redundant for the overall story and made some stupid choices (why did they choose Leia of all the people?!) but it made it even *worse* by creating new plot holes.
to be honest I really roll my eyes at modern disney's empire
in the original trilogy, the first movie shows how relentless they are
Leia had the smart idea to send the plans in a shuttle with droids because the empire was scanning for life forms
but as soon as they realized the plans weren't onboard Vader is immediately informed that a shuttle was sent away and arrived instantly at the conclusion that the plans were in there, the empire movilized completely over Tatooine, found proof that there were droids, and got imperial soldiers looking for droids in citices close to the shuttle impact, if it wasn't for Obi wan mind control they wouldn't have gotten away, the empire was more than just having an unprotected base because ¨nO oNE wOuLdnE aS fOoLisH aS tO asSaulT It¨
It's especially galling for the Empire when just five years previous Cal Kestis broke in. And he actually had to use Nightsister magic invisibility to bypass the fleet and get in. So after being broken into, the Empire... lowered their defences...
@@onyxrose4349 I wouldn't know because, I couldn't play the game, but that sounds more like the actual empire, a fortress not anyone can just walk into (or out of with a comical coat)
@@SillyGirlKisser74 Especially when you get stopped at the gate to get in because you are supposed to be in a completely different sector but you somehow get in by telling the head of security for the level that you outrank him...
What do you mean, they were allowed to escape in ANH.
That was even mentioned in the movies.
@@greco-romano9852 two scenes actually, Leia reaching the conclussion logically saying it's impossible to escape that easily so they must be tracked
and then Vader talking to Tarkin confirming it to the audience that they are tracking the ship
the series also insults Vader's intelligence. Gosh, even the Grand Inquisitor has to teach him strategies. Geez.
What about insulting the intelligence of every trooper Obi Wan walked past that didn’t notice this guy OBVIOUSLY had a kid under his trench coat?
@@ErikDayne oh man, don't even remind me. Episode 4 is dogsh1t. Terrible writing, coincidences are the worst.
@@ErikDayne You telling me you wouldn't have been fooled by a kid hiding in a trench coat? What are you some kind of special ops genius?
@@orun0810 lmao it’s so bad that it’s literally laughable, but those writers were deadass serious that it was a fine scene. “So Obi Wan walks out with Leia under his trench coat, anyone see a problem with this” “Nope! Now let’s break for lunch, I heard the buffet is serving all you can eat paint chips today!”
@@DinDjarr1 yeah it’s like they’re trying to copy the original movies but they don’t care enough to pay attention to the details. For instance, Luke and Han infiltrate the Death Star. Wow, cool scene, let’s copy that and have Obi Wan infiltrate the inquisitor’s fortress. Except, Luke and Han disguised themselves as storm troopers. Obi Wan was just walking around the inquisitor’s fortress wearing Jedi robes. To make that scene work they needed every storm trooper and droid to magically turn the other way and not accidentally stumble across Obi Wan. They even had a scene where a droid was looking for him but he ducked so it stopped looking. Ugh. Why not just copy the whole scene and have him put on storm trooper armor so people who are watching it aren’t asking themselves how could he possibly wander around this fortress without getting caught.
I was really hoping for a well written, self-contained character study of Obi Wan. Instead, it was mostly a pointless rescue mission with a bunch of fluff and unnecessary characters, countless dumb moments and story beats, and some good but rushed stuff with Obi Wan and Anakin towards the end. By the end of it, I don't feel like I've gained a new perspective on the character of Obi Wan.
That was never ever EVER going to happen
@Greg Elchert Yeah i know ppl are dumb. Sad face. Lucas sure. He had problems with immature CGI scenes and awkward dialogue beats. But main stories always had sense and underlying tone. I GUESS EVEN SOME FANFICTION HAVE MORE RERALISTIC DEPICTIONS as this shite.
@@sj4485 Yes Soprano-like show would be perfect i would eat that shit in second. Also what is more funny that show would be very ROI efficient. Because for that you would actually never actually leave set really.
Personally, I was able to better see Obi-Wan's point of view that Vader killed Anakin thanks to the ending.
@Greg Elchert you can add a 4th point, which would be that he doesnt hesitate to take civilians as meat shields
Kenobi shows us again what happened to nearly all Star Wars projects since Disney took over: the Production was a MESS.
Directors were fired, stories were rewritten or thrown away and the project changed from a Movie to a series.
I dont hate KK at all, but its her job to plan these things and she failed yet again. Star Wars needs someone like feige, who has a Plan and sticks to it.
First we had movies planed called a Star Wars Story, then we had a rian johnson trilogy, a DD trilogy and Solo and the sequels were pure chaos anyway.
KK needs to be fired, no question
My theory is she approves good scripts and ideas to get the ball rolling, actors on board ect. Then once production begins she alters the deal and adds the social agenda, ruining the scipts, plots and angering the actors and directors
We were SO CLOSE to getting a character study of Kenobi on Tatooine. Then the director was replaced, scripts were changed, and we got pure fanservice instead. Fuck.
Why do people hate Solo so much? I didnt think it was that bad. Same goes for BB. But trilogy is no part of Star Wars to me. Its the worst thing i have seen.
@@robertmorgan7624 i wasnt talking about if those Movies/shows were good or trash. I was talking about their production and all the stories that became public.
You should read some of that stuff. Its crazy how many times they changed course or fired Directors
I feel it could’ve been better if Leia was replaced with a new character, probably a force sensitive child. It would’ve helped cover a lot of plot holes and made the show a little more fresh
maybe, but I'd argue it wouldn't have been as meaningful, nor would it be a good enough reason to leave luke
@@robertbush7530 And it wouldn’t be fresh.
@@robertbush7530 Honestly, I can't actually come up with a single reason that would justify Obi-Wan leaving Luke. Not one that makes any sense.
@@danielveres4351 that's fair enough, but I think leia is a good reason, since she is just as important as luke. And Obi-Wan knows that
@@danielveres4351 There is one where Boba Fett captured a Jedi that knew where Obi wan was and Obi wan has to make sure he doesn’t talk I believe.
This show makes me feel like the time I found a nice coffeemaker in a dumpster. The coffeemaker being Christiansen, McGregor, and the other actors reprising their old roles. But I'm not planning on climbing in the dumpster in hopes of finding more things I like.
The show was so unmemorable that I already forgot what even happened in the first 3 episodes.
First three were boring. But, I'll catch you up: Owen made a bunch of memes, Kenobi found out Anakin lived and then after they escape a locked down planet they get captured by Reva anyway.
@@JoshMcSwain Owen and the memes are the only thing worth investing
@@JoshMcSwain You forgot to mention the awkward chasing scenes.
dont forget vader letting kenobi go just because. tala had a rifle and a loader droid. vader had stormtroopers and the abilities to put the fire out again, crush droid, force grab kenobi back to him. but nope he just let him go. shoot forget the fire just force grab kenobi and drag him back to you. He just did it less than 1 minute earlier in same scene????
At this point, it’s safe to say that the characters in Star Wars have seen the movies and TV shows because that’s the only explanation for some of their knowledge or behavior. That and a multitude of reasons is why this series was the end of my caring about Disney Star Wars. Darth Vader would have just used a tractor beam and boarded the escaping ship like in A New Hope and would have snapped Reva’s neck on multiple occasions for her failures like Captain Needa. The lack of understanding of Star Wars was astonishing, even with low expectations.
Space balls level of stupidity was displayed throughout the show. I'm not even sure characters in this parody movie were as stupid as Bail Organa when he sent this message in episode 5. Even Space balls writers could not possibly come with that level of stupidity, it's unprecedented
There's also the whole she-got-stabbed situation. Qui-gon died because of a wound like that, and Maul only survived a similar fate because of his intense hatred of Obi-wan.
@@kennyholmes5196 yep. I bet we as a community will end up enumerating all the issues in posts and videos that the creators never considered.
And somehow Vader was traumatized by his failure when he pulled the empty ship with the force, because he didn't pull the second ship, nor the Millenium Falcon on Hoth in the OT.
@@8rgk I’m adding that to the list. I should make a public document so we can all collaborate on pointing out all the blatant inconsistencies.
Why would the Grand Inquisitor argue with Vader? His entire purpose in the empire is to hunt Jedi and he’s willing to let a Jedi Master and former council member get away from him just to capture a handful of rebels? That is absurd.
And if he was operating under orders from the Emperor then why didn’t he say that? Vader would clearly defer to the Emperor’s wishes. Just say “Palpatine wants us to pursue the rebels not Obi Wan”, and Vader would have no choice but to relent. And that would have been interesting because instead of Obi Wan sacrificing himself to save the rebels, the opposite would have happened and he would have had to live with the fact that they died so he could survive.
But, we all know why that didn’t happen, because it wouldn’t lead to the “rematch of the century”. They’re so obviously bending the story to get to certain spectacles when it should be the other way around.
Vader doesn't like the Inquisitors.
Vafer could go after obi wan and the inquisitor can deal with the rebels
Star destroyers have tractor beams and tie fighters and are incredibly fast
Vader would have force choked him ot. You don't tell him shit, you follow orders.
@@leonrussell9607 yup ~ 6 Squadrons iirc (60 total fighters / 12 bombers). It’s like the Writers forgot the abilities of the 1600-meter long warship they are using 😓
This is the series where everyone stabbed through the gut with a lightsaber magically comes back to life. Even Qui Gon.
The plot holes are a symptom of the problem, which is the insistence on using “assets” as you put it. There’s so little that can be done with Luke, Leia, Vader and Obi Wan at this point while remaining consistent with other canon featuring them. The only way to avoid inconsistencies would be to have storylines in which they didn’t interact. But Kenobi did the opposite, keeping them all together and causing the plot holes.
The comment section summarized:
“This is where the fun begins”
As much as I love watching the videos that tear into this series like a Rancor on a Twilek slave girl, I genuinely appreciate your fair and calm assessment of this show.
Ah Yes Disparu was on fire when reviewing this series ! When he started talking about the power of mighty Leia and how it worked in mysterious ways he cracked me up and I started laughing like a maniac. 😂
@@luluflu1140 Bu but she is enginneer, moralist, deductioneer and great leader.... Luke is whinny clown boi. /s
I have never thought about your disclaimer in the beginning of your vids about the differences in your personal tastes and thus the reflection in your viewers. But man did I really see it today when i went to a random suggested video by TH-cam and see how different the ppls comments and opinions were of being so calm and accepting of the inconsistencies. Like everyone there just wanted enjoyment and thus they were satisfied.
But seriously i dont get how ppl dont want nice contiguous storytelling and more thorough writing. Like a good story keeps you grounded in the universe it sets up, not constantly asking questions/taking you out of the immersion.
I've theorized that there is a specific maturity required to make analysis of film and story.
When I first watched the SW movies they were kind of fun adventure. Same with Indiana Jones and stuff. As I got older, watching these movies again and seeing interviews of George Lucas I came to view them a lot more deeply.
I watched Blade Runner very young too. I hated it and thought it was whatever. I watched it older and it turned into one of my favorites ever. It's atmospheric and has a lot of things to say.
My theory is that majority of people don't reach maturity. SW will always be fun mindless adventure.
@@Notarealchannelok I love blade runner and I would analyse it seriously, but I feel like I can accept some rather big plot holes in Star Wars.
These two are my two favourites and I see them differently. They give me different things and thus I ask for different things from them when 2049 and all the SW projects come out now. Not saying you are wrong, but there is probably some ppl who is mature enough to understand and appreciate film like blade runner and at the same time seek mainly enjoyment from SW.
@@chungyang9925 I made a long essay explaining but it was unsolicited.
Both Blade Runners were financial fails. Movies like Dune barely break even. Hardly anyone I can find likes those but they will go and watch trash like Jurassic Park Dominion.
I am capable of enjoying things like Michael Bay movies for example, but because that is the intent.
Even though up to this point SW has mostly gotten by Brand Recognition. If people only want to consume low effort non thought provoking content then that is all they will make. People like me, who were the die hards. Will just stop being interested.
Star Wars mostly was reaching maturity. Until it was sold. I still remember SW 1313. It was supposed to be gritier and story driven. The prequels were really underappreciated. Things like Clone Wars and KOTOR have long since spoiled what I consider peak Star Wars.
@@Notarealchannelok Both blade runners are amazing. Sad that ppl are not interested in them.
About your theory it could be right, good points
This will sound mean but I honestly am starting to believe no one working at Lucas film has an IQ above 100 and for them jingle key entertainment is more than sufficient
Good to find a youtuber that doesn't make excuses for Disney and doesn't try to justify the horrible things they're doing.
This is a stories where objects can repair themselves automatically and in a matter of minutes. Tala's holster and Reva's lightsaber are in perfect condition mere minutes after having been broken or burnt. This is the level of consistency of this show.
Luke: "I care."
Vader to Kenobi: "When I left you I was but the learner ..." (so far, we have yet to see how this statement was ever true)
When Kenobi is "strike me down" by Vader, the Episode 4 New Hope version of Leia shows absolutely no loss or sadness for the old man. Just Luke seems to be affected by "That wizard's just a crazy old man."
Remember that flashback of Kenobi telling Anakin until he let's go of his need to.prove himself he'll remain a Padawan? That's how they went about that.
@@AndreVeaseyJr Yes, that does take care of 1 of the 2 issues if you think Vader was not proving to himself/Sidious that he was "over" Kenobi as a Master. The second issue is "When I left you ..." Anakin/Vader never did the leaving in any of the fights. I can't think of one scene where Kenobi wasn't the one to walk away after & including him departing Anakin to hunt down General Grievous.
Above all and everything, I have been a huge fan since Star Wars (1977) and none of the additional content created since then has made me think less of it. But I do like talking me some Star Wars 😀
As for Leia, remember when the general tries to comfort her about losing her palnet and family, she says, "No time for sorrow"? That includes Obiwan, she's full on mission mode, and will likely cry about all of it later. Why else is she smiling so much at award ceremony right after losing everything she's known?
@@proble-matic8543 Yes, agreed that her response to Commander Willard's "When we heard about Alderaan, we were afraid that you were lost along with your father." was just as you pointed out. But when Tarkin told her that "In a way you have determined the choice of the planet that'll be destroyed first." her reaction and pleas and emotion as the planet blows up it was expressed.
I think this backstory for Leia and Obi-Wan presented in this series does help to explain why Leia totally understands and verbally repeats Obi-Wan's undercover name "Ben Kenobi" during her rescue in SWe4. Something I've always pondered about over 40+ years.
Is it lost on anyone that perhaps Disney was destined to own the SW universe given the fact that the female lead character is a Princess and often needs to be rescued? I mean these in a funny-strange sort of way.
@@davidpowers9023 her pleas were to NOT blow up the planet, maybe emotional appeal would work? afterwards, she knows it wont, so shes focused on the mission (and probly revenge)...also, everyone seems to forget when ben is cut down, they are being SHOT AT, not exactly a time to stare and cry. leia is being more practical than Luke, something we see through their time together on the DS, which makes sense as she has more xp in these types of situations (shown in rebels too). And at least this series explains why she might name her son "Ben"!
Not to mention outside of that supposedly impersonal formal message to Obi Wan from Leia... she still doesn't care when Obi dies or asks to meet him, nor Obi Wan offers to rescue Leia one last time personally... he went to turn off a tractor beam
Nothing about this retcon series to the overall saga makes any sense
Bail Organa was one of my favorite side characters, but everything in this show turned him into one of the biggest idiots ever. Especially with the "Message to a possibly dead Obi-Wan."
My most recent theory is that there is also a multiverse of the Star Wars galaxy and that each movie/show/book takes place in a different parallel universe, which is similar to the others but slightly off.
You hit the nail on the head at the end: "Something doesn't have to be good to enjoy it" - which is totally true! Plenty of "bad" movies and tv shows that despite their glaring flaws I really enjoy.
The problem with the Kenobi show is that if you even dare to point out that the show is "bad" by saying it is riddled with plotholes and contrivances, dues ex machines/no real stakes, terrible writing and dialogue, shaky cameras during awful fight scenes, etc. - the list can go on and on - people who enjoyed it will claim you are "sucking the enjoyment out of it". The level of mutual respect people who disliked the show give to those who did enjoy the show is not met with mutual respect by people who enjoyed the show - instead, they shit on any dissenters as "negative" or come up with ridiculous defenses like "Star wars was never that good" so they can grandstand.
@Michael T the prequels suffer from some of those same issues, though to a far lesser extent in my opinion. The prequels are “bad” films - I don’t think even the most hardened prequel lovers would dispute that. But that just furthers my point, as someone who likes the prequels (though with the fast forward button in hand) I still recognize the films are “bad” films with lots of problems. There are lots of “bad” film and TV that are widely enjoyed though, my problem lies where people try to gaslight you into believing a film is good simply because they enjoyed it, then castigate you as “negative” for daring to disagree with their opinion.
In my opinion, the biggest difference between the prequel trilogy and “Disney starwars” (a term a use very loosely since every project is different, and I quite enjoy projects like Rogue: One, but I’ll digress) is that generally speaking the prequels had a solid idea and poor execution, while Disney starwars often have great execution but a horrible foundation. Whereas the prequels are a salad with a terrible dressing, the sequels are a salad where the dressing is great but the lettuce is rotten. I personally believe that bad execution with a great idea is preferable to a terrible idea with lots of spectacle - but that might just come down to different people want different things from film.
I never grew up with Star Wars, my first Star Wars film was the Force Awakens - so Star Wars has no nostalgic value to me. I watched all the films with an open mind, and from a film perspective it is no doubt episodes 4-6 are far superior over the rest- but from a lore perspective, 1-3 have a lot to offer.
I also recognize I went on a bit of a tangent, but I hope you can understand what I am getting at. Cheers!
@@Oppen1945 even after 40 years I believe the OT holds up amazingly well. In my opinion, it is beyond timeless - each time I watch it I enjoy it more than the last. I watched the film for the first time nearly 40 years after it’s first release, and I still thought it was a great set of movies! Flawless, of course not (though TESB is pretty close to flawless), but still far better than anything Disney has offered us - even the Disney Star Wars films I liked (including Rogue: One) are not nearly as timeless as the OT.
I don’t think the OT suffered from all the issues I outlined, but even those it does suffer from are to a far less extent to what Disney has put out - and it’s not even close. By the nature of it, and “original trilogy” can not retcon itself - so no matter how you break it down, supporting materials will always be riddled with more plot holes and retcons as compared to the original materials.
We could get into a whole discussion on why issues I highlighted are far less important / pervasive in the OT and prequels as compared to the sequels or other Disney Star Wars materials - but I suspect we are likely to agree on the topic.
@just_@l£x The Disney films used more CGI shot for shot and unlike George there was no innovative techniques. While it looks primitive today, the Death Star wireframe model was one of the first uses of CGI in a movie Jar Jar was the first motion capture character. There is none of that drive to innovate they just want to shoot in Jordan in front of a green screen.
@@emberfist8347 not to mention the phantom menace with the first ever (or one of the first big movies, I’ve heard conflicting evidence of this) movie to use digital film! With every movie, Lucas took the movie making industry into the future!
@Michael T *Sorry for a bit of a late response - I wanted to make sure to take the time to carefully go through your post since you clearly put a lot of time and energy into it. I’d also like to clarify I specifically brought up the sequel trilogy / Disney star wars because I feel Kenobi exudes sequel energy (this is seen most clearly in the interrogation room in Fortress Inquistorious, which looks straight out of episodes 7 & 8, but is prevent problem throughout)*
*Also, I noticed you didn’t bring up music at all - I am of the strong opinion that the lack of John Williams music in the Kenobi show held it back significantly, so just assume that every sentence mentions something about how the lack of John William’s music makes everything worse LOL*
“I'm really not sure if the prequels suffer from these problems to a lesser extent. There are many inconsistencies that could be considered plot holes. Leia remembering her mother, Obi Wan not remembering R2, Obi Wan never mentioning Qui Gon to the point you'd think he hates him, the jedi being a forgotten and ancient religion despite being practically famous and extremely active on the galactic stage 20 years prior.”
*I think you bring up a lot of good points here - were some of these plotholes handled poorly, yes of course, but they are far from as bad as the plotholes created by Kenobi. I don’t even think you picked out the “worst” of the prequel plotholes/retcons, but I will provide a response to each: Leia remembering her mother could have been explained away by her truly believing that Bail & Breha Organa were her true parents (an explanation ironically made impossible by Kenobi); R2-D2 was Anakin’s droid & it’s just a droid, so it makes sense that Obi-Wan wouldn’t remember it nearly 20 years later (plus Lucas wanted C3P0 & R2D2 in the prequels since the movies are from the lens of R2D2, which I think most prequel fans agree is silly and purely for the purpose of merchandising & fan service); I am not sure if Obi-Wan really has a reason to bring up Qui-Gon the in OT since he is already dead, sure he mentions how Yoda taught him instead of Qui-Gon, but grandmaster Yoda did teach everyone (it is also explained in Episode 2 the lineage between Yoda->Dooku->Qui-Gon->Obi-Wan, with the motif that it is like a ‘family’), furthermore Obi-Wan only bring up Yoda because he is still alive to train Luke & (from the prequels) he was the only living being who had faced the Emperor; While I do agree the timespan between ROTS & ANH is very wonky, the Jedi were erradicated and charged as traitors to the Republic - it would make sense that until the return of Luke Skywalker many still saw the Jedi as traitors - not to mention their existence/leagacy was likely scrubbed by the Empire, something common among autocratic dictatorships.*
*Now you can agree or disagree whether or not you think my responses to these retcons and plotholes are good or not (some are stronger than others, and honestly I probably didn’t even have to include them since they are just opinions), but what is important to identify is that none of these retcons or plotholes (which mind you occur across three films) have even close to a significant impact on the enjoyment & continuity of the OT, and are mostly benign (they don’t damage the main plot / story) as compared to the ones introduced in Kenobi which created huge gaping holes that you actively detracted from both the enjoyment of Kenobi as well as the continuity of the OT. I could literally go on forever listing the plotholes & retcons, but I will limit myself to the biggest two: Kenobi & Vader meeting again before ANH & Obi-Wan and Leia having a close relationship:*
*Obi-Wan Vs Vader 2, electric boogaloo: For all the problems with the prequels, the final fight on Mustafar between Anakin (Vader) & Obi-Wan is largely regarded (even at the time per my understanding and research) and was regarded as the highlight of the trilogy (though I will respond to your comment later on flashy fights). Even if you didn’t like the scene, we can all acknowledge that was intended to be the last time Obi-Wan and Vader were in the same vicinity until ANH. Watching the scene of Vader and Obi-Wan facing off in the Death Star (imo) was greatly enhanced by their final stand-off on Mustafar. We understood Obi-Wan’s motivations, we understood why Vader lost (hubris), and most of all we understood how both of these characters grew into the Vader and Obi-Wan from the OT. As compared to their final dual in Kenobi, which beyond being less visually appealing than the fight on Mustafar due to poor lighting and shaky camera angles, is so poorly constructed from a story perspective that I would believe you if you told me it was ripped directly from a sequel fan fiction.*
*#1, the rocks - they have had this obsession with Jedi throwing rocks since the release of the sequels - it is just stupid and terrible, and is not enjoyable to watch. This bothered me enough I had to list it on its own*
*#2, a dramatic turn in the tide of the battle - Vader easily defeats Kenobi (you can argue who should have won, I am of the opinion at this point in his journey Vader should have, but I will digress) in the first act, literally burying him alive (another terrible scene imo). Not two minutes later, the writers would have us believe that just by thinking of Luke & Leia that he musted the power to not only escape certain death but was able to turn around and kick Vaders ass. It is just not a believable turn of events and is insulting to the audience.*
*#3, But worst of all, Obi-Wan leaves Vader alive - AGAIN. At least the first time you can say Obi-Wan was stricken by grief, didn’t have the heart to kill Anakin, or simply wasn’t capable of striking the finishing blow and believed he was leaving Anakin to die - you can hold any of those thoughts on why Obi-Wan left Anakin/Vader alive the first time. But by this point, Vader proved to Obi-Wan that he has no part of Anakin left in him (something Obi-Wan MUST believe if the OT is to make sense since Obi-Wan did not believe Vader could be turned back to the light) and he proved himself willing to kill innocents to hunt him down (literally the job of a Jedi is to protect the innocent) - yet we are expected to believe Obi-Wan just left Vader alive out of pity. It just makes Obi-Wan seem like a huge dick when he later suggests Luke has to kill his own father in the OT - something Obi-Wan himself failed to due twice. Furthermore, we are expected to believe Vader (who now knows his former Master is alive) just lets him live because Palpatine said so (a lazy attempt at patching a gaping wound of a plothole). We are expected to believe that Palpatine, who LITERALLY sent Vader and the inquisitors out across the galaxy to hunt the remaining Jedi would just be like “Oh yeah your former master and student of Qui-Gon Jinn, that guy I wanted dead because he was too open-minded for the Jedi,- yeah just leave him alive out in the universe I’m sure nothing bad will happen”. Even if you take the position “Palpatine didn’t want Vader to fall back into being Anakin” or “Palpatine could see the future and knew that Obi-Wan would later train his replacement of Luke Skywalker”,- this entire chain of events is completely out of character for everyone and is an insult to the intelligence of the audience.*
Thor is tired of playing neutral … I feel like with the sequel trilogy he gave benefit of doubt but now he’s like alright I’m doooone!
Have watched a bunch of your videos lately, and am loving your disclaimer in each video. It doesnt come across as disengenuous but sincere. Its very refreshing to have someone with a very balanced and fair approach to opinion pieces on youtube. Have subscribed and will be looking out for your content 😄
Palpatine stopping Vader makes even less sense considering that he set off order 66, which leads to hunting down Jedi, having a funky bunch of Inquisitors etc. Pretty unlikely that he would call off the hunt in a moment when they have the supposedly strongest surviving Jedi at point-blank range.
The Empire characters' hunt for the Jedi is completely inconsistent. Sometimes Kenobi is the priority, sometimes it's catching rebels. It's whatever suits the script when they need a distraction.
It always makes me feel better to hear you echo my own thoughts, but with more civility and eloquence. Thanks for being you Thor!
"Don't ask question just consume product and then get excited for next products"
Disney (Probably)
and Vader spends the next 9 years having no idea how to find Kenobi, despite the fact that Reva showed him how, and despite the fact that Kenobi never relocated with Luke. wow, that's dumb
If you were to make a few minor adjustments and a slight reworking of the final episode, it would be totally possible to replace Obi-Wan with another rebel-aligned Jedi like Kyle Katarn due to how little this show actually has to do with Kenobi.
I don’t let nostalgia cloud my judgement on the mediocre writing of Kenobi
And you shouldn't let a black hole mentality prevent you from giving credit where it's due.
@@achaudhari101 what credit?
@@captaindc3889 If they do good things in the show.
@@achaudhari101 that doesn’t make up for what large holes are dug in the whole franchise as a result
@@captaindc3889 Which I disagree to where it actually helped some plot holes be filled in. You see I look at some of the tinier details of things also when observing a show down to the body language and tone at times.
Leia doesn't even flinch when Kenobi dies on a New Hope!!!! Weren't they besties???
Months ago, when I read that the head writer was Joby Harold, and subsequently found he'd written nothing of real quality, that he was something of a hack, I started to have the famous 'bad feeling about this.'..how and why he not only got the writing job but inexplicably became an executive producer on the show too, I have no idea. Perhaps he was recommended by Pixar's Andrew Stanton who co wrote the finale. Why that happened too seems a mystery.
*Reads title*
“Oh, he’s pissed”
Don't worry Thor all will be explained in a young Bael Organa spinoff show.
Lol
1:09 This feels incredibly accurate. Like with a lot of big franchises, it’s not viewed as a story like it was to George Lucas. It’s nothing but a cash cow to Disney, unfortunately, which is likely the core of why their Star Wars feels so hollow
I disagree.
@@achaudhari101 ok?
@@leonrussell9607 I m quite sure he trolls on couple vids aldready... And yes Disney SW is hollow souless mess.
Lucas is the one who sold it to Disney in the first place, so evidently he viewed it as a cash cow also.
@Purple Emerald Ofc they are defences like that. "Its children show" especially pisses me off. When is not good its simply not good. Disney will never get from mine hard earned money. They need to improve. PERIOD
"The main thing is to protect these characters, make sure that they still continue to live in the way that you created them." -Kathleen Kennedy 2012
Even though it is "Legends", the novel "The Clone Wars: Wild Space" did develop a proper friendship between Bail and Obi-Wan that I believe would have eventually led to their dynamic in ROTS and this series.
Imagine if Bail just went public and told the Senate about his daughter being kidnapped and the Inquisitors get into some hot shit politically. Even the Grand Inquisitor was chastising Reva for having the audacity to kidnapp an Imperial Senator's daughter.
The series acknowledges how stupid it was for Bail to not inform the Empire of all of this. This is like Thor Skywalker said, this show is weirdly aware of all of its plot holes, but decides to make nothing about it nonetheless.
And even the whole "it would draw attention to Leia" excuse doesn't make sense because she ends up becoming a senator! There would be a ton of eyes on her! That's far more riskier than just telling the Senate that she was kidnapped as a kid. I know there are ton of evilmum in the Empire but they had to keep up some form of appearance to care before the Death Star was ready.
I feel as if the show both remembered Leia becomes a senator to praise her character only to forget it to allow the series to happen
Could have actually been a decent reason for the Emperor to dissolve the Inquisitorius and give an explanation as to why they don't appear to exist in the OT.
I'm sure this show was meant to be some sort of spiritual successor to Space balls. Yes, that must be it. Only this can explain all the shouting from Reva to make her look evil, why Vader is so incompetent throughout the show, all these comically bad scenes, all these plot conveniences... Maybe Reva watched Obi-Wan Kenobi on Disney+ to know exactly where that secret exit was, where that secret tunnel led, who the hell was Luke and why he was so important to the story? Yes, she also must have watched the original trilogy on top of it so she doesn't accidentaly kill Owen or heck, even Luke ! We gotta respect the lore continuity after all *wink wink*!
Surely, the outrageously stupid message from Bail Organa in episode 5 must also be a reference to Space balls, even though I wonder which one it can be, as no character in Space balls was ever this unbelievably dumb, and there is fierce competition in this movie.
XDD
LOL
How did you know who Luke was?
Galaxy Quest Aliens: We have studied closely your historical documents *pulls out copy of A New Hope*
I just watched A New Hope today and I gotta say, the Obi-Wan series just doesn't make any sense in the story if you put it before this movie. There's so many little details that they missed and while watching the movie I was like " Did they really watch A New Hope ? " because my god did they create a lot of plot holes... I'm just gonna give you a exemple, in the movie, Ben says to Luke " I haven't gone by the name of Obi-Wan since, oh..., before you were born " meaning that after Revenge of the Sith, it's done, he forgot that name (and I guess only force ghost Qui-Gon would call him Obi-Wan at this point) and even Alec Guinness acted like he was shocked when Luke said that R2 was the property of a certain Obi-Wan Kenobi. It was like his past just came back to haunt him again. But in the Obi-Wan series, Luke is already born and is like 10, and how many times did people call him Obi-Wan during that series. Even Leia called him Obi-Wan lol. That is just madness.
Fans are gonna be like "no but he said this metaphorically, like before you were born spiritually as a jedi, you get it? Jeez, you really are nitpicking"
Lmao just joking, but I know some people are gonna defend this no matter what so, let's just make fun of them
@@Oldstalkin my headcanon Alec's Obi-Wan has demintia. No Ben, Luke was already around when people called you Obi-Wan. No Ben, Anakin wasn't so good of a friend. Yes Ben, you owned a droid. No Ben, Yoda isn't your master.
Leia gets kidnapped, Bail notifies the ISB, show ends.
He might not like the Empire, but he might as well make use of the resources he has available as a Senator. Failing that, Ahsoka. Failing THAT, well, Vader had Leia in his grasp by the time of ANH, and he didn't discover squat about her, so what's the worst that would happen?
Exactly. It did not make any sense to basically add fuel to the fire by asking Obi-Wan to rescue her. He was the last person to ask. Any bounty hunter would have done the trick honestly, Bail Organa is rich so there was no excuse.
Not to mention, he also has guards and security on Alderan so just send them smh
[cash register sounds]
[sound of starwars fans eating feces ... "Mmmmmm, StarWars brand feces, tasty!!!"]
[cash register sounds]
I’ve been screaming to the sky “How the hell does Bail not get dragged in front of Vader and Palps and force interrogated/tortured them killed”
What a joke. Execute Order 86 on darth Kennedy the woke.
What does being woke have to do with bad writing? What was woke about an old veteran coming out if retirement to save a little girl who is the daughter of his old friend? Or bad guys wanting revenge? Really it’s all just a bunch of action movie cliches, like the noble sacrifice of what’s her face with the thermal detonator or obi wan giving himself up (twice) to save others. It all could have been much better with just a few tweaks and some better choices. Instead it was kinda bland, very rote and ultimately forgettable.
@@russellharrell2747 It's more so that KK was focused on catering to the woke narrative than actually investing in good writers, researchers and directors. The snow ball effect is that quality in areas unrelated to "wokeness" became an after thought. I mean, come on! When Bob Iger says that The Force Awakens "feels like star wars" and not that it's "A return of star wars". The priority was pretty clear they weren't putting in the effort where it mattered. Thus, you get the problems with Kenobi which were present in pretty much every Disney Star Wars release.
Stop using woke, it’s a meaningless word at this point and stupid. What they are doing is purely for the sake of nostalgia and bait. They aren’t catering to some special group, they target sweaty Star Wars fanatics who wet their pants in excitement every time something connected to the prequels happens. You give them too much credit.
@@scottjs5207 yeah, I’m pretty sure Disney (and lucasfilm) has always been about making money, not art. Individuals working for the company do have vision and do care about making good stuff. It’s the same for any studio. And they also proved that if you have a beloved franchise that’s been around for decades you don’t even need to plan out anything for a trilogy of movies, just shoot whatever you want and each one makes a billion dollars.
The thing that just boggles my mind is how many people are calling this garbage a masterpiece. It’s a slap in the face to *actual* Star Wars fans.
Rots contradicts more than this show did, rots makes zero sense
@@spideysg1163 revenge of the Sith? I loved that movie
Ok so just because you like something specific from star wars then you're not an actual fan?
@@zoom0451 i think defending literally everything in a show that is full of plot holes, contrivences, inconsistent characters, idiotic characters and events that either break continuity or stretch it to the absolute limit indicates you don't really care about Star Wars as a complete piece of competently created fiction, you just enjoy seeing laser swords and meme references
Can we have a list of what star wars "actual" fans like and what star wars they don't like?
This is a very good series of you "watch it" while on the phone or doing other stuff. The moment you start paying attention to it and actually try to wrap your head about the story none of it makes any sense.
I was playing Pokémon go and the Harry Potter puzzle game for most of it
Disney doesn’t understand Star Wars, it’s very apparent in almost every movie/show. Quantity doesn’t accomplish quality…
Reva: Gets stabbed in the gut, lives.
Grand Inquisitor: Stomach gets impaled, tis but a scratch.
Qui Gon says “Man, this is some bullshit!”
When you said the Empire seems to he stupid most of the time. That resonated very strongly with me since in my opinion a story is only as good as its villain.
Your not wrong with having criticisms with this show especially with Star Wars.
I just had a moment of realization: in Star Wars Rebels, the episode where Ezra goes to Tatooine and meets Ben, doesn’t Rex say that Senator Organa confirmed Obi-Wan’s death after Order 66? As far as I know, nobody else has realized this. This creates a huge plot hole with both Rebels and the Kenobi show existing in the same continuity.
Rebels has exactly the same problems with this kind of thing
@@TheMinskyTerrorist mind sharing some examples?
everything disney has mad e contradicts not just the OT and PT, but contradicts their own shit. As of now only the ot and pt are in the same continuity.
No plans to watch the animated series, but someone had a video about how pablo's work good or bad is always contradictory. like Asoka's existence and being anakin's apprentice highly contradicts the pt and how the jedi felt about him.
@@vortexflash4944 You just mentioned one, them visiting Obi Wan on Tatooine. In fact they pretty much meet every original trilogy main character (Lando, Yoda, etc.) except for maybe Han Solo. There are three fully fledged Jedi, all more powerful than Luke, all running around plus Darth Maul, and Ahsoka almost kills Vader on her own, but they never consider just teaming up with Obi Wan and Yoda and finishing the job. Ahsoka and Ezra had to be disappeared for vague reasons just so that the original trilogy could even happen. It's a mess just like this new show is a mess.
@@TheMinskyTerrorist not too mention even Ashokas existence is very big stretch. In mine opinion animated stuff should never crossover with live stuff PERIOD.
I like to think that Reva died off screen. Her hatred and the Dark Side was keeping her alive. Once she let go of that, she died.
She’s getting a spin off
THANK YOU, THOR! The way you explain it is perfect. Very well said.
Palpatine doesn't just tell Vader to stop hunting Obi-Wan because it's making him weak, Palpatine tells Vader, "If I sense anymore weakness in you, anymore conflict about your old past, I'm going to personally eviscerate every atom of your body." ... now sure, he doesn't use those exact words, but it's very strongly implied by what he does say, and how he says it. The Emperor can see that Vader is not as fully committed to the Dark Side as he should be (and therefore not as fully committed to him as he should be), and that his obsession with Obi-Wan is not just about vengeance and hate, but also because of that conflict within him ... and that is a threat to the Emperor's hold over Vader, *_one he will not tolerate._*
In a way, Palpatine unintentionally saved Obi Wan's life by doing that.
Yea, Vader always has conflict with his emotions when someone he cares about is around. This conversation with the Emperor was similar to the one in ROTJ. Vader informs Palpatine he feels his son was with the Rebels that just landed on Endor. The Emperor doesn’t sense it and wonders if Vader’s thinking is clear on the matter.
That's how you interpret it, and I beg to differ he did not say it that way at all.
@@Oldstalk Okay, so how do you interpret the Emperor's words, and Vader's immediate scared $#!tle$$ response?
V: "The probes are tracking every system within range, we will destroy everything in our path until *_he_* is found."
P: "You seem agitated, my friend."
V: "He will not evade me again."
P: "I wonder if your thoughts ... are *clear* on _this_ , Lord Vader. Perhaps your _feelings_ for your old master have left you weakened?" (Scowls at Vader) "If your past cannot be overcome ..." (implied threat lingers tangibly in the air).
V: (deep breath, sits back in fear), "Kenobi means nothing." (instantly abandoning his swore relentless pursuit and vengeance).
P: (Smug triumphant smile)
V: "I serve only you, my Master."
Seems pretty clear to me.
I’m so happy somebody is pointing out why this series is not cohesive. I’m happy to see Ewan back, but clearly the story itself is not well executed. There are so many moments in this show where I’m gone “seriously?”
If Leia wasn't special, which Reva had no way of knowing, Organa could have gone to the Emperor and asked him to send Vader to rescue his daughter.
Awkward.
Vader who is in charge of the Inquisitors would find that one of his minions had arranged the kidnapping.
The whole kidnapping plot is ridiculous.
@Greg Elchert my point was that Reva had no idea that Leia was special. If she was just some random girl that the Organa's had adopted they could have asked Palpatine to send Vader to rescue her only to find that it was an Inquisitor behind it in the first place.
She had a girl kidnapped whose father had some connection to Kenobi 10+ years ago. The Empire was as likely to kill her for what she did as Kenobi was.
It was an idiotic plan written by people that get their story in their head and then don't look at any other possibilities or potential drawbacks of their version.
There was only a small chance that Organa would contact Kenobi about the kidnapping. He had many other options open to him and it was only becasue Leia is who she is, a fact that Reva didn't know, that he actually contacted Kenobi.
Bad writing and bad understanding of the Star Wars universe that they own.
@Greg Elchert Then do not send Obi-Wan Kenobi to the rescue. Go hire some bounty hunter to do the job (even though the empire would have done it for free, as Organa is still a senator and the Senate is still powerful)
Don't forget that being stabbed in the torzo with a lightsaber is but a scratch 🤺
All this could be explained very easily...
The show runners never watched Star Wars
Even more simpler : they did not care
The more Disney Star Wars I watch the sadder I get. I was really excited to see Ewan and Hayden again and it was so hard to watch the terrible writing/story unfold. It’s crazy to me how little care and respect is going into some of these projects. The plot holes definitely drive me crazy. Thanks for the video Thor!
Entire show staff seemed to forget that Lucas and CW S6 both established that QuiGon couldn't manifest himself visually
But we HAD TO SEE him 🤪🤪
And I’d even be fine with qui gon acknowledging that he was finally able to learn manifestation but they didn’t do that lol
@@erikstrickland96 I still would've been mad. It was well established that all of training had to be done before death
And some people are making excuses such as oh he learned that ability after he died. Uh, how? By reading a book that he couldn’t open as he was just a disembodied stream of consciousness? Maybe he asked the other ghosts in the force, and they taught him, but then if they knew why didn’t they manifest themselves as well? Why isn’t the universe already full of force ghosts if they can learn that ability after they die?
In the 'Master and Apprentice' short story from 'A Certain Point of View' it is revealed that after Revenge of the Sith, Qui-Gon continued his training and was eventually able to manifest himself, which lines up with the show.
This video’s title is EXACTLY how I feel about this terrible, canon killing series.
Agreed. It’s such a baffling show
@@chasehedges6775 Completely! And haven’t you noticed that we’re somehow in the minority with our views? The majority of the fans are eating it up and praising the writers in the comments sections of the official StarWars Instagram! It’s mind boggling!
@@1johpo Go to reddit and you will be downvoted to hell if you criticize the show.
I fail to see how when you look at the context of certain scenes.
There's a reason why I've watched your videos for so long and appreciated your work; You really get it.
I appreciate your graciousness towards fans in your critiques of Star Wars. People today seem to struggle with the notion that we can have different opinions of something and still respect each other.
What was Reva's reason to kill Luke? It was so random that he decided to kill him. Was it to simply piss off Obi Wan, or did she somehow know he was Vader's son.
I'm pretty sure she knew she was Vader's son. She didn't care about Kenobi for his sake.
@@JoshMcSwain Which raises a whole new level of question. Padme's pregnancy was not exactly something wide known, or at least that the father of these childs was Anakin Skywalker, a jedi.
The real Obi-Wan would NEVER abandon his responsibility to Luke for any reason, no not even Leia and her useless adopted father who should've had more sense given his position, the moment this happened you just knew where this series was going.
He did that in the Old EU however, that series called the Last of the Jedi was using Obi-Wan for two books so he could get the protagonist who was another Jedi survivor of the Purge out of trouble once and then he leaves to watch over Luke. While the other Jedi takes over as the main character as the series wasn’t about Kenobi nor advertised as such.
I'd love to know how Bail manages to not get arrested for treason in the 10 years between this series and ANH, after a Jedi shows up to save his daughter from one of the most important Imperial facilities in the galaxy.
After a couple months in the bacta tank, why wouldn't Vader go straight to Bail, and torture him until Bail tells him where to find Kenobi?
IMO, this series, if made at all, should have played out more like the parts of Book of Boba, where he's interacting with the Tuskens. He shouldn't have ever left Tattooine, it should have been a series about him losing is faith in the force, and finding it again through turmoils he has in the desert with the Tuskens.
People will tell you Vader did not know it was Organa's daughter and all of that but it does not make sense. Half of the inquisition knew what Reva did, most notably the grand inquisitor who was working with Vader from the beginning, everyone in the inquisitorius HQ also knew Obi-Wan saved Leia as Obi-Wan infiltrated the place, and certainly quite a lot of other people.
So yeah, it does not make any sense. So much people are aware of it and nothing can justify them doing sweet nothing for 10 years
@@Oldstalk "Vader doesn't know it was Organa's daughter"
Vader: *looks at the security footage* Yo guys, can we like search our records for who this girl is? Oh? Bail's daughter? Alright, bring him in then.
Believ it or not, its shown in ANH that empire doesnt have absolute power, even ten years after this show. First lines from Leia are about how Vaders illegal actions will make the senate act....and his officer agrees with her! A major point of the imperial meeting is how the emperor still has to work with the senate to control the galaxy, the whole point of the deathstar was to finally be able to rule through fear without the senate, so it could oppose him; not so hard to think that Bail cant be touched, but no reason to think he wasnt closely watched like Thor suggest, why not?
@@proble-matic8543 Um... ANH says Palpy has recently dissolved the Senate. But even before then, the Senate is largely powerless anyway.
@@onyxrose4349 Nope the senate is still active at the beginngin of the movie, and Leia Vader and his officer all act like its still powerful. Palpatine gets rid of it sometime between then and the imperial meeting. You can just SAY its powerless, but the actual set up in the movie itself disagrees...after all why even get rid of it if it IS so powerless?
Obi Wan pretended so hard to not know about Leia that he even forgot about her when talking to Yoda as a force ghost
Ben stayed on Tatooine for 19 years, watched over Luke, spoke to Qui Gon. That's it.
Wow. Great points. This show gets worse the more you think about it.
I think the fake Jedi guy, Hajs Estree, could have been used more in the show. That character had so much potential. He could have been a sidekick for Obi Wan that proved himself useful with his skills to deceive and use them to get OW out of trouble in unconvential ways. His character felt unique, novel and morally ambigous. His skills was put to use for good although his practices was questionable and exploitative, showing that in a post Clone Wars era the notion of good and bad had eroded away. All the "good" Jedi had been eradicated for treason against the very republic they had swore to service and protect with their life. The "bad" Sith triumphed and were now the "protectors" of peace and stability. Haja was my favorite character in the show since he exposed all the shades of gray that perhaps also subsequent Force users like Luke and Leia would have to contend with in order to navigate this new world and uncertain future. Afterall, everthibg do depend on "a certain point of view".
I liked him too, and indeed, in competent hands, it could have been a great dynamic.
However, like everything else, he's underutilized and not relevant to the plot at all.
If only this show had competent writers...
There's a sad trend among screenwriters today to write characters that have the same knowledge the audience does, even though the character has no business knowing what the audience knows. I don't know if they just don't know any better or if they are just too lazy to do better or if, for some strange reason, they think the audience likes it better that way, I don't know.
Rogue One had a perfect grasp of what every character/faction knew (not to self-plug but I have a video about it) and then Disney forgot all of that and traded it for toddler logic
@@localscriptman I can agree with you there and that's probably a big reason that, aside from The Mandalorian, Rogue One is the most universally beloved of the Disney Star Wars efforts. The large chunk of fans who need that kind of consistency in order to suspend disbelief don't end up getting pissed off and hating even the good parts because they were constantly being pulled out of the experience.
While I personally have issues with Rogue One, feeling like characters magically had knowledge that they had no right to have wasn't one of them. The movie is also decently consistent within itself, even though I feel it didn't leave on the appropriate note to match the tone of the opening sequence of ANH.
The downward spiral will continue so long as people insist that you're not a "real fan" unless you gobble up every pile of garbage Disney shovels down your throat.
It really amazes me how people think that what being a fan of any given thing is is just shutting off your brain and salivating over everything on which they slap a couple of words on.
It’s this disgusting cult like mindset that ruins any chance of getting actual good content. And if you say other wise your labeled as toxic
Reva doesn’t hold up either. They had a blank slate character, one which they clearly desperately wanted to be well received and even launch a spin-off. But nothing about her makes sense. So she wants revenge on Vader because he killed the Younglings? She knows that he was doing it on order from the Emperor, I assume. So her plan is to join the Emperor and Vader in their mission to kill Jedi? That’s like a mob boss puts out a hit on your family and only you survive. You decide to take revenge by becoming an assassin for the mob, killing innocent families and children. Why not hide? Or join the rebels? Or set a trap by pretending to be a Jedi but ambushing Vader? There was seriously no opportunity to kill Vader? And why not go for the Emperor as Vader was just following orders?
But fine, there her plan. So she decides the best way to get her revenge on Vader is to kidnap Leia and draw out Obi Wan? She could just skip that and say she found Obi Wan and plane a giant bomb on the site and when Vader comes blow it up. Was her plan for Obi Wan to kill Vader for her?
But the strangest writers decision was that after she had betrayed Vader and the Empire, she goes to kill Luke. Why? How does killing a child get revenge on her escaping getting killed as a child? They wanted her to show mercy and have a change of heart but forgot to give her any initial motivation so the change is totally empty. We don’t know why she wanted to kill Luke so we don’t care when she changes her mind.
The worst part of all this is that the good guys always decide at the last minute to not kill (Reva to Luke, Kenobi to Vader) and the bad guys are just incompetent (Reva to Inquisitor, Vader to Reva). It got old fast.
It would have been far better for Reva to try to kill the defeated Vader but get killed by him and the still-alive inquisitor. And have Vader fed a concussion and forget about Leia.
yup
I really enjoyed seeing Ewan portray Obi Wan again, but that was more or less it. The story was poor and seemed to rely too much on the 're-match' duel between Vader and Kenobi. Everything was totally engineered so that this could happen. Personally I think that the story would have been better without it, as it diminished both characters. I would have liked to see Obi Wan keep evading Vader, slipping through his clutches by the skin of his teeth and finally getting away. That would have left things open for a possible second series. My other gripes were Reva surviving being well and truly stabbed, and Obi Wan abruptly fixing his connection to the Force so that he could fight and defeat Vader. How did he manage this so suddenly?
Probably the same way that Ray suddenly got "awakened" to the Force in TFA. I got the sense that the force and "highlanders" are the same thing. Perhaps that is why no one ever dies to lightsaber wounds, except if they are sad or get their head cut off. Also explains the rule of two - "There can be only two!" 😛
I'm surprised more haven't caught on. Disney is using beloved ip's to push " the message". The kenobi show, just like most of the disney shows, was a vehicle to degrade loved characters and push new ones.
The people writing these shows dont care about the product. In their own timeline, Bail has Ashoka working with him, why would he contact kenobi?
This was character deconstruction in the same vain as jake skywalker.
Kenobi show is a, canon destroying, abomination and should never have been made.
Let's not push TCD's "the message" segment here. This show was utter garbage, but it did not push what you are referring to as "the message" at all.
@@danielveres4351 opening scene, 2 jedi. The male goes down in seconds, female has heroic last stand. Show featured leia not Luke, the former was an adult in a ten year olds body. Every characters with agency were female. Kenobi was a failure, reeeva decided not to kill luke. Letting reeeva survive with her knowledge. This knowledge killed Maul.
Vader was an idiot. Kkfilms hates Luke(white male). They've gone out of their way to degrade him and elevate leia. Check out the short of the death star escape. Leia did all the work. Luke was useless.
As much as I hate to say it I think it is not so much people not catching on but people no longer caring because by Disney Star Wars standards this is good show (which means shows like "The Mandalorian" are phenomenal by Disney SW standards.) I confess that I didn't think much about it because I have been desensitized by the dumpster fire that was the sequel trilogy. Yes, this show has its problems but if people aren't catching on I think it is because we have become so desensitized with bad writing given that the sequel trilogy was even worse on a whole another level.
I think they could've handled this the same way Timothy Zahn handled Luke and Mara in ~~Scoundrels~~ Choices of One (thank you Mr. Fisher): the two interact but never in person and so cannon is preserved. We get to see both characters do cool things in the same story without needing to come up with a more elaborate explanation for why they don't remember meeting later.
Choices of One, not Scoundrels. 😎
@@SFisher1993 Oh shoot, you're right. That's the one I actually own too...
@@AJadedLizard It’s all good, haha. 🙂 I’m just being a nerd. 😂
I’m a huge Legends reader even now. Lots of great stories in that timeline!
@@SFisher1993 I made the mistake of giving away all my Star Wars books years ago. Before the Dark Times. Before the Legends banner. I'm slowly trying to reacquire as many of them as I can; I have most of Zahn's books and a bunch of stuff I didn't have from the Bantam era, along with the bootleg Star Wars book that got self published at cost a year ago, which was sadly the last thing I read even if it's what started my collection anew. My plan is to get the NJO books again, along with as much of the old Clone Wars project; those were my childhood and those, for me, are how I choose to remember Star Wars.
I wouldn’t say that’s close scrutiny tbh
Wade had more screen time than Qui-Gon! 😔