What does he mean by “obsolete” here? I still have the music and can listen to it when I want. And I have to think that most into digital are streaming, not buying.
@@arvind0rjillako What I think he means by " obsolete " is that the digital gear becomes obsolete. DAC technology is always changing. What today is the "latest greatest" does not last that way for long. Different sampling rates in playback , R2-R ladder dac, reclocking devices are a just a few inovatins that have come along that could be seen as making what you currently have, seem obsolete.
I think it’s great that Myles “took a plunge” to dive into tape, but a man with a reel to reel in which “only the transport “ is original can NOT complain that the problem with digital playback devices is that the tech keeps changing. 🤗
@@donaldchisholm9931 That’s certainly not true when it comes to CDs. I collect and love vinyl, but digital has its place too. There’s so much music that is not available on analog.
Great interview guys! Interesting topic, and I like Steve’s conclusion that it is closer than he expected. For me reel to reel is beyond something I would want to try to be honest.
Steve, you’re on a roll, first with the Italo interview, and now this one. These guys are what being an audiophile is all about. Foot on the gas pedal, always looking to reach the next level. Please bring us more.
Nice visit Steve, enjoyed the talk. (Martin Logan man here) May I add? I have been a tape head since 1967, and still have that little machine. I have always enjoyed the 'pluses' of the tapes. The near descrete channel separation and greater dynamic range for sure when it comes to orchestral recordings. When 4CH came out, I got on that bandwagon as well, and still own the Sony quad machine purchased in 1974. I think I wil feature that system in another viewer photo survey when you have one. (O:
Back in the '70s-'80s I had a reel-to-reel Akai tape deck for budget reasons. With an empty tape about the same price as a LP, it was cheaper to record 4 LPs on a tape. Or more by assembling mixtapes leaving out the tracks I didn't like. The initial investment in the Akai machine made a "poor man's big music collection" possible. Today I don't have reel-to-reel anymore. That's a shame because it has become the rich man's option 😁
I fell in love with reel to reel but at $350+ per pop on the records I want I simply can't justify it. I'll stick with record store bargains at $5 - $10 per album.
An excellent option is to record a high quality vinyl re-issue on to half track 1/4" tape. Tape adds that little bit of richness like a tube amp over SS.
Thank-you Steve and Myles. Great interview. Today's "ah-ha" moment. Tape head to tape velocity doesn't change throughout the tape but LP's. at the beginning = faster velocity. LP at end = slower velocity aka rolled off frequency response. I appreciated the concept but hadn't really thought much about it. 15 ips R2R and 45 RPM LP's = 👍
@@keplermission4947 Not quite sure I fully understand what you're suggesting. My 2 points were 1. Frequency response capabilities are reduced as needle to groove velocity decreases. (Wasn't implying any specific performance standard) 2. The thumbs up about 15 ips R2R tape and 45 RPM LP's was implying that with a higher tape head to tape or needle to groove contact speed you have the potential for enhanced frequency response with R2R tape offering frequency response consistency from end to end. Each LP pressing or R2R tape would be subject to the limitations of the master tape electronics, record and cutter electronics etc. That may have been what you are suggesting and if so I agree. We know that the weakest link in the chain can limit the overall frequency response. A combination of weak links can really inhibit things. To verify things in my world I test with signal generators, scopes, test records and test R2R tapes. When I want to know if something is working per engineered specs I test it. Good specs don't necessarily mean good sound. It's all about what you hear when you listen. 🤔
Steve...what did you mean by Myles "paying his dues" with Linn? The LP 12 was always highly regarded and still sells fairly well among Linn dealers. The top, tweaked out model is about $45K but is largely forgotten by today's reviewers...sad but true.
The year 1970. Southern California. I'm sitting in the front passenger seat of Ron Witek's 1966 Pontiac GTO listening to Black Sabbath from an 8-track player as he drives me to Little League baseball. It doesn't get any better than that.
“I think we’re good.” No, Steve. That was excellent. Its is good to see stuff like what Myles has as I never have the opportunity to be exposed to this kind of gear. I didn’t even know folks machined modern tape heads and converted old R2Rs into transports and hooked them up to purpose made tubed preamps. This stuff is interesting, intriguing, and aspirational. I like reviews, but love this kind of stuff even more. Thanks!
Nice to see Myles gear, the Doshi amps are beautiful! I really need to get a set of flux heads for my ATR-102. I have several of the tape project masters and a few of Acoustic sounds, delmark and horwich. Great stuff is out there
I would love to have gear even approaching the gear of this gentleman. My wife expressed in no uncertain terms that she is unwilling to surrender our entire living room to the towers, cables, racks, lamps et cetera. So for now, I live with a Linn Majik integrated amp, Sony ES 333 CD player and Elac Uni-fi 5 with stands
1st hi fi I heard was on tape. Ravel's Daphnis & Chloe. My older brother's roommate tape recorded hundreds of Boston Symphony broadcasts on FM-WBUR. Playback was through one 15" JBL speaker mounted in the center of a closet door. Tape hiss was always a prelude to great, great music.
Mid 70’s Tech Hifi…sounds like an all too familiar route. During my college daze I too stepped inside their shop and walked out with an entry level system, made up of Ohm speakers, a Kenwood receiver and the Philips turntable. I recall not digging the Ohms and traded them in for a set of EPI’s. I have no idea how often I continued to visit Tech Hifi, pick up their catalog with tiered systems at different price points.
As a newbie to reel to reel tape, I am amazed how good it sounds right out of the bat. Certainly beats my own LP player. And I suspect there's a host of mods to improve on the matter just like on an record player. Thanks for sharing this video - very interesting! Kind regards.
I've been thinking seriously about adding reel to reel back into my system lately. When I first got into engineering in the 80's, everything was tape based and the sound was obviously amazing. Although I do still buy cds, I've been back into vinyl hard-core for the past 10 years. Maybe it's time to take that plunge back into the tape world, again. Hmmmm.... Well, thanks again for another great interview, Steve! My wallet may not thank you so much, though... 😉
@@keplermission4947 no matter how much it doesn’t make sense, there’s still sometimes an itch that you just have to scratch 😀 I’m not jumping in just yet. Thanks for the info.
About a month ago I picked up a seldom used Otari MX55. It works as if new. For 1700 bucks it beats the 6K (seems to be the low end) to 60K+ others are charging to make old decks work and look "nice".
I too started off on tape as a budding young sound engineer. Sold off my machines-- Fostex 24 track, Sony TC854 and a Techniks RS1500 in mint condition. Been longing to get that machine back but, now it's mega $$$.
Myles Astor has written quite a bit about the Zellaton Plural Evo on audionirvana. Nevertheless, I'd love to hear more about these speakers on youtube. Overall, great interview!
My wife is encouraging me to buy a reel-to-reel. I told her I have an acquaintance that wants to sell a mint condition (with all packaging) Sony TC 880-2 for $7k. She asked when could we pick it up. I'm so lucky... My wife grew up in a loving, yet strict, German household that listened to most of their music on reel-to-reel. Her fondness for those times means a financial investment in her memories is priceless, and $7k is just a small cost in this journey of life.
My experience with reel to reel was that if you had a good recording, put on headphones, turn the lights out, sat back and it literally would put you there!
I remember back in the 70s the local rock station would have a recording of a live show. I assume it was sent to the radio stations in open reel form (I certainly could be wrong) but listening with headphones could hear dropouts similiar to a cassette recording on my lowly tape machine. That always bothered me. When CD's came out that problem was solved.
This was fantastic in every way Steve, too bad we can't give more than a single thumbs up - it was on par with the stuff you've done with Nelson Pass - - Myles had me totally captivated, a great interview to say the least - - sorry to be a bit off topic - but yeah, I'm only kidding - - couldn't help but notice the VPI brick sitting on the base of the light - so there's one for the snake oil commenters - - are they asking if the light is more focused with the brick?!! ( : By the way, the vinyl/tape discussion aside, I Love Myles system and really appreciated the tour thought it - and omg, what an fantastic turntable set up! 👍👍👍👍👍
@@keplermission4947 The AR had a higher noise floor then the Linn. The Linn (pre Nirvana/Valhalla) was more dynamic then, especially on Jazz. Had both.
@Myles Astor Myles, I'm guessing you really are using the brick for it's weight - but whether you're kidding or not, that's too funny! It especially hits my funny bone because I too have used mine on several occasions for it's weight - when I've "glued" something for a repair - it's perfect! Heavy with a small foot print - - On a serious note, I appreciate you taking a moment to reply - I really enjoyed your interview with Steve too, many thanks. Skip
Just great. I love reading Miles stuff online. Sometimes though the small font gets pretty fatiguing. They should really think about programming for mobile device reading.
There are laws of physics that no matter how much we wished otherwise, can not be violated! Tapes looses 3db of S/N in each generation and the highend rolls off. Again laws of physics. The only way to do a relatively perfect transfer is using lasers. This highspeed duplication technique was developed later in the video tape movies world. A master tape could be imprinted by contact and laser to a blank at highspeeds. I don't think the technology was ever picked up by audio dupers. Even those new special tapes as above are at best sourced 3 to 4 generations at that point? I sold bulk tape (Ampex, Sony, Maxell, ...) and duplication systems in the SE and visited tape manufacturing plants in AL. Also laws of physics, low end head bump stops tape from an accurate and extended low end. Low end response curves from a tape deck show the extreme swings. And the wider you made the gap for low frequency response, the more you rolled off highs. Which never got close to the highend capabilities of vinyl as proved by CD4. Take any really good remaster (MFSL,...) and you can hear the tape noise added to the record background when the master tape is opened up. Plus tape requiring the head to be completely inductor based has a noticeable frequency related phase shift which helps create the tape sound. The real comparison is not to take a tape mastered recording and compare a vinyl and tape copy. I had the opportunity as a member of AES and living in Nashville selling to the studios, to attend a special AES meeting at a studio in Nashville that had cut a direct to disc. The meeting had playback of that record on the actual cutting lathe used with an SME arm and V15 cart compared to Soundstream Digital and Ampex 1" 2 track master that had also been recorded at the same time. Played back through the West Lake system it was master on. 100% selected the vinyl as noticeably superior. There was no comparison. Take remasters like the Yardbirds '67. From the 2 track tapes recorded live. The pressing is dead quiet. You hear the tape hiss as they bring in the tape source. And the sound is exactly what you would expect a 2 track master to sound like from the hardware available at the time. Or the Hendrix Electric Ladyland remaster. The disc again dead quite. And tape hiss when it is opened. But the source material is much better. Still not as good as a DtoD. Vinyl having so much better specs than tape, especially back in the day, can reproduce almost exactly what was on the source tape. And again laws of physics state that a tape copy even one generation down would not be as good in S/N and bandwidth as the disc. Much less the more likely approach of making submasters to copy from to protect the master. Finally though, like Myles the only source to my stereo system is analog. In my case a turntable only. Well I do have a mini-plug hanging out to plug my phone in as a source if needed to stream something for kicks and to drain off the PS reserves when I turn the amp off. No relay protection. So I feed soft volume music to drain the caps in the PS.
So insightful to get a view into a different dimension of audio that few TH-camrs can claim real knowledge of. Thanks Steve, I’m now trying to hunt down Myles’ writings…do you have any suggestions of where to begin looking? Or are there any specific articles of his that you found particularly illuminating?
Would be fun to have a cassette tape deck enthusiast on your show... I had such a good time recording Accustic Sunrise on KFOG radio station in San Francisco... later played in car... thanks for having great guests...
Fascinating. Now I need to hear a good rig with a good tape source. I can imagine having tape just to own and play the occasional "master tape" of my favorite stuff. Problem is I'd probably never want to listen to digital again, and there goes the budget for media. Digital is so easy and inexpensive that it is good to not know what I'm missing. :)
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt We all have our favorite CD/LP that we think is of superior quality. There may be now or in the future boutiques that will cater to quality reproductions that are closer to the master tape. Tapes in general are expensive, and inconvenient so I'd save this media for my 20 most cherished albums.
I always remember when my friend who is the lead singer of a band called Faithless played me the original recordings on reels from their first album from 1996. I have never heard anything like it, it felt like you were in the room with them at the time. He explained to me that the tape records a lot more of the frequencies beyond audible range so it gives you a lot more feeling
But there were a long discussion about as time goes by, the better tape heads and cartridges are getting. And Miles like his TT when he can change a tone arm in 5min plus have more than one tone arm mounted in the TT. That is something we can't do on a LP12 for example. Same with the RIAA, try to find a old RIAA that you can adjust loading during playback with a remote, that's fine tuning. So there is several different reasons to upgrade. Old stuff is great but in some aspects new stuff is better of obvious reasons.
@@westernartifact580 if he owns and have first hand experience with Dahlqvist then he has most likely heard something better. And Dahlqvist needed to go. Why do we lust for old and apparently not top notch sound quality speaker?
Hey, this is off topic, but what do you think of the Yamaha A-S801 vs. Cambridge CXA81? Which would you say is a better value for the money and will most likely favor more speakers? They are about $300-400 difference. Appreciate it.
I have 6 reel to reel decks floating around, none of them hooked up. I always felt like I needed an EE degree to set them up properly. I have this quad tape of Stick Men that I want to hear, at some point I will attempt to wire up one of the Tascam 4 tracks to my Denon AV amp using the multichannel direct inputs. It weighs about 2,000 pounds (it seems), and my memory is that the tape hiss is louder than LP surface noise. We shall see. Maybe.
Cool interview obviously some big $$ stuff so a "fair" comparison in terms of what's possible. Personally I am full into cassettes and Nakamichi in particular. Fortunately have a lot of chrome tapes which the Maxell have stood a 40 year test of time in terms of sound but also mechanism. TDK SA not so much and the squeaky ones really annoy. Making full album cassettes off of the youtube with adblock is a great way to pirate music I mean to enjoy it at low investment.
@@keplermission4947 the Nakamichi has a "plummy" sound? I never heard of that term but apparently it is British upper class with clipped vowels? Anyway the ZX-9 has bias and azimuth adjustment but I don't mess with that although I do try to keep the heads cleaned and even demagnetize occasionally. Yes I do have a few CD players and even a CDR unit and blank music 80 min CDs that are pretty good from Maxell at a buck each or thereabouts. The current Maxell cassette tapes are terrible really bad.
@@keplermission4947 interesting. My Infinity Kappa 8 with the ribbon tweeters front and back have adjustments to turn up the highs and or mids. I've always left them at so called normal or flat. Maybe I misunderstood you originally and apparently you are saying that CD has no "real" high end and likewise the Nakamichi? What does reproduce the highs, vinyl?
Nice content. For mere mortals I would choose records over tape every time. Would a custom reel to reel costing thousands sound better than vinyl. I am sure it does, but with cartridge tech and table tech continuing to push forward I would argue it’s a much closer fight than people think.
Mr.Astor is probably the highest level audiophile caste! ( he has a VPI brick on his floor lamp base, for gods sake ) I knew two guys that built Recording Studios that might be at a higher stratosphere. and then there are Mastering Guys like Mr.Ludwig and Mr.Katz.... Vinyl people shouldn't own Cats. ( should they ?, wife's Cats ??? ) Thank you for letting us see the Goldmund stuff. I'm gonna hunt down this man's writings, he seems to be sharing a fascinating philosophy while pursuing his peregrinations.
I will never understand getting into reels. If there's an album you want, it's bound to be rare as can be and expensive as all hell. I'm a huge Eno fan and I'd be willing to bet it would be cheaper to fly Eno out to my house and have him play for me in my living room than find a reel copy of his work.
Hey steve This is not related to this video but is something i was wondering about. Going back to the kit built Pass amps, I think it would be fun to try them with a high quality power supply/wall wart since it is so important and critical part of the sound.
Question: the difference between vinyl and tape that would be the most important to me would be in buying second hand (estate sales, thrift stores etc.). Can you tell upon close experienced examination about whether a tape is going to sound good or not in the same way you could with vinyl? I think if you buy from experienced and reputable resellers this wouldn’t be AS important but having no experience with tape what do you look for to get your best guess on the condition of the media/recording?
If by enduring, you mean physically last the longest? Tape will inherently dry out and the coating flake off. Optical with different layers with different expansion coefficients will separate and be unusable. While vinyl, unless physically attacked, can survive almost indefinitely with minimal environmental conditions.
My wife having a preview of my audio disease when I put some Maggie IICs in her living room, saw her opportunity when we shopped for a home and found a place with a studio built over the garage. She took one look and said that is where my audio stuff was going. I loved it. a complete room I could destroy with LPS, audio gear and making audio cables. Domestic bliss in the form of an audio retreat.
@1:16 "How did you become an audiophile? It's not, like, a normal thing to be?" Respectfully, I disagree. it is 100% normal. The phrasing of that question, however, could be questioned. People that enjoy this hobby should never feel as though they are not normal. Does our host have 200,000 abnormal subscribers, and countless more that have not subscribed? Is our host abnormal? I will never knock this hobby, nor anyone that participates in this hobby (other than when unwarranted aspersions are made, or trolls spread misinformation). Far from this hobby not being normal, it is quite healthy. ----- As to comparing reel-to-reel to vinyl pressings... No two pressings sound the same. You can grab two pressings, from the same run, and their sound quality will differ. They might be darn close -- but they will not be exactly the same. And many (MANY) vinyl pressing just plain suck, even though they were made close to the master. Sometimes that pressing machine just does a lousy job when it stamps out a pressing. So a cherry picked pressing should be used to compare reel-to-reel to vinyl. And Myles Astor (your guest) is correct, that the tape will win, as it does not suffer from tracking issues, etc. Your guest, Myles Astor, knows his craft. It was refreshing to hear someone accurately dispense his knowledge and hard to find information on this hobby. If we had more Myles in this hobby, we would have less trouble with people spewing nonsense in the forums. If we had Myles running recording studios, we would not have so much crappy sounding releases. Alas, we are limited by the number of Myles we can get out of this hobby. ;-)
The naive audio experiments; in the early 70's I bought a Revox Dolby deck thinking I'd preserve the "original" album play quality by recording it, then archive the record. Ha! the dolby did quiet surface noise but at a very noticeable loss in detail and air. Without Dolby even at 71/2ips, not as good as the record. Direct mic guitar recording was superb though. Access to master tape copies was undreamed of back then...out of budget now. Interesting interview anyway...recent purchase on Steve's recommend: Holly Cole, Temptation CD...excellent!!
Holly Cole's "Don't Smoke in Bed" is even better! The Dolby issue is complicated... Unless your playback heads are **PERFECTLY** aligned, it would affect the high frequencies (and the phase). I went down that road with Barclay Crocker prerecorded tapes and an Advent Dolby "B" processor, etc. I had an old Rotel processor, but lightning got that one! The best prerecorded Dolby reel to reels were made by London and I have some priceless (to me anyway!) Bernard Herrmann reels with Dolby.
@@jimcoope7194 Thanks for the Holly Cole recommend, I'll check it out. The Revox is long gone, traded for a Carver 4000 preamp...a questionable trade! Perhaps the radio station that bought it aligned the heads. I gather from this thread all playback heads of the day were sub par. I leave Dolby to home theater duties these days. Those 10" red reels were sexy though...
Man, tape sounds nice but, $$$ to expensive. What happened to the golden days when there was good modest price equipment? Kudos to you guys who can afford this.
what about Betamax? LOL While we're being loyal to analog could I get you review the Parks Audio Puffin let us know why nobody else hasn't already gone this route . or have they?
I love cassettes and have alot of old still usable and in fact not made anymore chrome. The price for NOS chrome is bad enough but no longer made metal tapes are ridiculous. Commercial cassettes were typically crap tape so that didn't help the whole cassette industry. Dolby was and is terrible and shall never be used if you have a machine worth it's salt. Reel to reel sounds silly pricey for the tapes and really a good cassette recording is pretty darn good. I mean this guy has some very pricey stuff and my system is no slouch and I can't hear the difference with a cassette recording vs original in fact many times adjusting recording level is a plus because it was too hot or sometimes one channel is way too loud for example.
I was ripped off buying a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10's, sort of. I traveled about 60 miles to Malibu, CA to some millionaires house up on the hills with unbelievable views of the ocean to purchase these. I get them home, all excited only to find out the woofers were the wrong type, and not original because they didn't fit. Luckily, the woofers were some really sought after type, and I sold them as well as other parts from the speakers for a tad more than I paid for the speakers. It was a hassle, but I got my money back, and we had a nice drive to the beach so all ended well. Why would a millionaire sell a $400 set of speakers he knew were not up to par, and not as advertised? What a greedy SOB! 😁👍✌
I used a Revox A77 Mk4 as a teen, recording instrument samples and putting my favorite digital songs on a mix tape. It always sounded superior in musicality to anything. It's not an expensive medium if you get some good blank tape and roll your own so to speak (from music that you have legally acquired of course). I now have another A77 with custom variable speed mods that will do 33.3ips :)
Unfortunately I lost interest when I realised the speakers cost $40000. And who knows the cost of the electronics. Am I wrong in believing he lives in an apartment ? Hence the ability to use this equipment to its full potential is limited. Also these speakers are built for large rooms. All in all his reviews are of limited use in the real world
RS-1506 direct tape head line mod is a hack job. Should have wired from inside. And if you're informed about 1/4" tape you'd have a ReVox or Studer so bias and eq could be aligned to tape. Your kind of snobbery is just blah blah talk
Notice Myles last name? If he's in the tycoon's gene pool, it might explain the lack of cost being an issue. In this country there are about 330 million different ideas of what disposable income is.
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Thank you Steve and Miles. Excellent interview . My favorite part " with digital you go and buy it and 3 months later it is obsolete".
What does he mean by “obsolete” here? I still have the music and can listen to it when I want. And I have to think that most into digital are streaming, not buying.
@@arvind0rjillako What I think he means by " obsolete " is that the digital gear becomes obsolete. DAC technology is always changing. What today is the "latest greatest" does not last that way for long.
Different sampling rates in playback , R2-R ladder dac, reclocking devices are a just a few inovatins that have come along that could be seen as making what you currently have, seem obsolete.
I think it’s great that Myles “took a plunge” to dive into tape, but a man with a reel to reel in which “only the transport “ is original can NOT complain that the problem with digital playback devices is that the tech keeps changing. 🤗
@@donaldchisholm9931 That’s certainly not true when it comes to CDs. I collect and love vinyl, but digital has its place too. There’s so much music that is not available on analog.
@@pdcragin33 True enough !!
What a surprise when i played cassettes from 30 years ago. They sound great! And they were manhandled (stored in hot attic, etc).
Wonderful chat, thanks Myles and Steve, again!
Greetings from Brazil.
Please God don't let me get into tape. Please God don't let me get into tape. Please God don't let me get into tape..........
LOL!
@geol7408, you sound exactly like someone who is one step away from becoming completely addicted to tape!
Jump in and enjoy.
Greetings from Brazil.
Good review… Thanks to both of you.
Great interview guys! Interesting topic, and I like Steve’s conclusion that it is closer than he expected. For me reel to reel is beyond something I would want to try to be honest.
Steve, you’re on a roll, first with the Italo interview, and now this one. These guys are what being an audiophile is all about. Foot on the gas pedal, always looking to reach the next level. Please bring us more.
Thanks
Nice visit Steve, enjoyed the talk. (Martin Logan man here) May I add? I have been a tape head since 1967, and still have that little machine. I have always enjoyed the 'pluses' of the tapes. The near descrete channel separation and greater dynamic range for sure when it comes to orchestral recordings.
When 4CH came out, I got on that bandwagon as well, and still own the Sony quad machine purchased in 1974.
I think I wil feature that system in another viewer photo survey when you have one. (O:
Myles is fun, great interview
Brilliant interview 🙂 Do a part 2!!!!!
I enjoyed this interview with Miles and the subject matter very interesting.👍
Back in the '70s-'80s I had a reel-to-reel Akai tape deck for budget reasons. With an empty tape about the same price as a LP, it was cheaper to record 4 LPs on a tape. Or more by assembling mixtapes leaving out the tracks I didn't like. The initial investment in the Akai machine made a "poor man's big music collection" possible. Today I don't have reel-to-reel anymore. That's a shame because it has become the rich man's option 😁
Yahhh Steve, another interview. Keep going it was interesting. I love hearing more about analogue. Great interview.
Awesome episode and a super interesting interview
I fell in love with reel to reel but at $350+ per pop on the records I want I simply can't justify it. I'll stick with record store bargains at $5 - $10 per album.
U can say that again.
An excellent option is to record a high quality vinyl re-issue on to half track 1/4" tape. Tape adds that little bit of richness like a tube amp over SS.
Thank-you Steve and Myles. Great interview. Today's "ah-ha" moment. Tape head to tape velocity doesn't change throughout the tape but LP's. at the beginning = faster velocity. LP at end = slower velocity aka rolled off frequency response. I appreciated the concept but hadn't really thought much about it. 15 ips R2R and 45 RPM LP's = 👍
@@keplermission4947 Not quite sure I fully understand what you're suggesting. My 2 points were 1. Frequency response capabilities are reduced as needle to groove velocity decreases. (Wasn't implying any specific performance standard) 2. The thumbs up about 15 ips R2R tape and 45 RPM LP's was implying that with a higher tape head to tape or needle to groove contact speed you have the potential for enhanced frequency response with R2R tape offering frequency response consistency from end to end. Each LP pressing or R2R tape would be subject to the limitations of the master tape electronics, record and cutter electronics etc. That may have been what you are suggesting and if so I agree. We know that the weakest link in the chain can limit the overall frequency response. A combination of weak links can really inhibit things. To verify things in my world I test with signal generators, scopes, test records and test R2R tapes. When I want to know if something is working per engineered specs I test it. Good specs don't necessarily mean good sound. It's all about what you hear when you listen. 🤔
Steve...what did you mean by Myles "paying his dues" with Linn? The LP 12 was always highly regarded and still sells fairly well among Linn dealers. The top, tweaked out model is about $45K but is largely forgotten by today's reviewers...sad but true.
Really enjoyed this one Steve, thanks so much 👍
The year 1970. Southern California. I'm sitting in the front passenger seat of Ron Witek's 1966 Pontiac GTO listening to Black Sabbath from an 8-track player as he drives me to Little League baseball. It doesn't get any better than that.
I really enjoyed this one , Steve
“I think we’re good.” No, Steve. That was excellent. Its is good to see stuff like what Myles has as I never have the opportunity to be exposed to this kind of gear. I didn’t even know folks machined modern tape heads and converted old R2Rs into transports and hooked them up to purpose made tubed preamps. This stuff is interesting, intriguing, and aspirational. I like reviews, but love this kind of stuff even more. Thanks!
@@keplermission4947 those are a lot of words only to communicate how sad and bitter you feel. I hope something brightens up your day.
Most excellent.
Nice to see Myles gear, the Doshi amps are beautiful! I really need to get a set of flux heads for my ATR-102. I have several of the tape project masters and a few of Acoustic sounds, delmark and horwich. Great stuff is out there
Myles Astor the real Audiophiliac
Fascinating stuff Steve. I'd love to hear a good reel to reel. Keep it up
I would love to have gear even approaching the gear of this gentleman. My wife expressed in no uncertain terms that she is unwilling to surrender our entire living room to the towers, cables, racks, lamps et cetera.
So for now, I live with a Linn Majik integrated amp, Sony ES 333 CD player and Elac Uni-fi 5 with stands
There's nothing wrong with your nice system so focus on the music and enjoy!
Dump her! 😏 You only live once.
1st hi fi I heard was on tape. Ravel's Daphnis & Chloe. My older brother's roommate tape recorded hundreds of Boston Symphony broadcasts on FM-WBUR. Playback was through one 15" JBL speaker mounted in the center of a closet door. Tape hiss was always a prelude to great, great music.
What a great great character. Would love to hear more about tape and vinyl from Miles.
Mid 70’s Tech Hifi…sounds like an all too familiar route. During my college daze I too stepped inside their shop and walked out with an entry level system, made up of Ohm speakers, a Kenwood receiver and the Philips turntable. I recall not digging the Ohms and traded them in for a set of EPI’s. I have no idea how often I continued to visit Tech Hifi, pick up their catalog with tiered systems at different price points.
As a newbie to reel to reel tape, I am amazed how good it sounds right out of the bat. Certainly beats my own LP player.
And I suspect there's a host of mods to improve on the matter just like on an record player.
Thanks for sharing this video - very interesting!
Kind regards.
Cassette, the poor man's reel to reel, and I love it. Aiwa AD f770 and f660 still going strong.
I've been thinking seriously about adding reel to reel back into my system lately. When I first got into engineering in the 80's, everything was tape based and the sound was obviously amazing. Although I do still buy cds, I've been back into vinyl hard-core for the past 10 years. Maybe it's time to take that plunge back into the tape world, again. Hmmmm.... Well, thanks again for another great interview, Steve! My wallet may not thank you so much, though... 😉
I’ve been thinking the same. I’d love a video showing $500 / $1000 / $1500 / money no object reel to reel machines to start me off.
@@keplermission4947 no matter how much it doesn’t make sense, there’s still sometimes an itch that you just have to scratch 😀 I’m not jumping in just yet. Thanks for the info.
About a month ago I picked up a seldom used Otari MX55. It works as if new. For 1700 bucks it beats the 6K (seems to be the low end) to 60K+ others are charging to make old decks work and look "nice".
I too started off on tape as a budding young sound engineer. Sold off my machines-- Fostex 24 track, Sony TC854 and a Techniks RS1500 in mint condition. Been longing to get that machine back but, now it's mega $$$.
Myles Astor has written quite a bit about the Zellaton Plural Evo on audionirvana. Nevertheless, I'd love to hear more about these speakers on youtube.
Overall, great interview!
My wife is encouraging me to buy a reel-to-reel. I told her I have an acquaintance that wants to sell a mint condition (with all packaging) Sony TC 880-2 for $7k. She asked when could we pick it up. I'm so lucky...
My wife grew up in a loving, yet strict, German household that listened to most of their music on reel-to-reel. Her fondness for those times means a financial investment in her memories is priceless, and $7k is just a small cost in this journey of life.
My experience with reel to reel was that if you had a good recording, put on headphones, turn the lights out, sat back and it literally would put you there!
Not necessarily in that order. 😂
I remember back in the 70s the local rock station would have a recording of a live show. I assume it was sent to the radio stations in open reel form (I certainly could be wrong) but listening with headphones could hear dropouts similiar to a cassette recording on my lowly tape machine. That always bothered me. When CD's came out that problem was solved.
Tapes sound awesome. Myles loves the sound of tapes. Myles is my friend.
Great video and great information
Myles!
This was fantastic in every way Steve, too bad we can't give more than a single thumbs up - it was on par with the stuff you've done with Nelson Pass - - Myles had me totally captivated, a great interview to say the least - - sorry to be a bit off topic - but yeah, I'm only kidding - - couldn't help but notice the VPI brick sitting on the base of the light - so there's one for the snake oil commenters - - are they asking if the light is more focused with the brick?!! ( : By the way, the vinyl/tape discussion aside, I Love Myles system and really appreciated the tour thought it - and omg, what an fantastic turntable set up! 👍👍👍👍👍
@@keplermission4947 The AR had a higher noise floor then the Linn. The Linn (pre Nirvana/Valhalla) was more dynamic then, especially on Jazz. Had both.
@Myles Astor Myles, I'm guessing you really are using the brick for it's weight - but whether you're kidding or not, that's too funny! It especially hits my funny bone because I too have used mine on several occasions for it's weight - when I've "glued" something for a repair - it's perfect! Heavy with a small foot print - - On a serious note, I appreciate you taking a moment to reply - I really enjoyed your interview with Steve too, many thanks. Skip
Steve, very interesting guest! Thanks.
Just great.
I love reading Miles stuff online. Sometimes though the small font gets pretty fatiguing. They should really think about programming for mobile device reading.
Could we get links to his stuff, listened to this twice. YES to reasonable discussion!
I've always been a tapehead, I always will be!!
Very interesting video; Myles is a great guy! Also, no digital here (in my main system) either!
Great stuff Steve, but wow, I would've enjoyed at least twice that much or more!
It's fantastic to listen to Myles on this topic. I've always valued his thoughts, and his enthusiasm is still going strong. Lol
Interesting, it looks like the sound panel behind him is on a track so it can be adjusted for elevation.
Way above my head, but still fascinating to listen to. I wouldn’t have the space or funds for tape, but maybe in my retirement.
No funds now then it's unlikely you'll have funds when you retire!
@@ergloo6660 ha. Got plenty!
Really enjoy your presentations Steve. Myles is enjoyable and knowledgeable. Pass it on.
@@keplermission4947 more dollars than sense
There are laws of physics that no matter how much we wished otherwise, can not be violated! Tapes looses 3db of S/N in each generation and the highend rolls off. Again laws of physics. The only way to do a relatively perfect transfer is using lasers. This highspeed duplication technique was developed later in the video tape movies world. A master tape could be imprinted by contact and laser to a blank at highspeeds. I don't think the technology was ever picked up by audio dupers. Even those new special tapes as above are at best sourced 3 to 4 generations at that point? I sold bulk tape (Ampex, Sony, Maxell, ...) and duplication systems in the SE and visited tape manufacturing plants in AL.
Also laws of physics, low end head bump stops tape from an accurate and extended low end. Low end response curves from a tape deck show the extreme swings. And the wider you made the gap for low frequency response, the more you rolled off highs. Which never got close to the highend capabilities of vinyl as proved by CD4. Take any really good remaster (MFSL,...) and you can hear the tape noise added to the record background when the master tape is opened up. Plus tape requiring the head to be completely inductor based has a noticeable frequency related phase shift which helps create the tape sound.
The real comparison is not to take a tape mastered recording and compare a vinyl and tape copy. I had the opportunity as a member of AES and living in Nashville selling to the studios, to attend a special AES meeting at a studio in Nashville that had cut a direct to disc. The meeting had playback of that record on the actual cutting lathe used with an SME arm and V15 cart compared to Soundstream Digital and Ampex 1" 2 track master that had also been recorded at the same time. Played back through the West Lake system it was master on. 100% selected the vinyl as noticeably superior. There was no comparison.
Take remasters like the Yardbirds '67. From the 2 track tapes recorded live. The pressing is dead quiet. You hear the tape hiss as they bring in the tape source. And the sound is exactly what you would expect a 2 track master to sound like from the hardware available at the time. Or the Hendrix Electric Ladyland remaster. The disc again dead quite. And tape hiss when it is opened. But the source material is much better. Still not as good as a DtoD. Vinyl having so much better specs than tape, especially back in the day, can reproduce almost exactly what was on the source tape. And again laws of physics state that a tape copy even one generation down would not be as good in S/N and bandwidth as the disc. Much less the more likely approach of making submasters to copy from to protect the master.
Finally though, like Myles the only source to my stereo system is analog. In my case a turntable only. Well I do have a mini-plug hanging out to plug my phone in as a source if needed to stream something for kicks and to drain off the PS reserves when I turn the amp off. No relay protection. So I feed soft volume music to drain the caps in the PS.
So insightful to get a view into a different dimension of audio that few TH-camrs can claim real knowledge of. Thanks Steve, I’m now trying to hunt down Myles’ writings…do you have any suggestions of where to begin looking? Or are there any specific articles of his that you found particularly illuminating?
Positive Feedback
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Myles also wrote for TAS and was publisher for Ultimate Audio.
Would be fun to have a cassette tape deck enthusiast on your show... I had such a good time recording Accustic Sunrise on KFOG radio station in San Francisco... later played in car... thanks for having great guests...
Fascinating. Now I need to hear a good rig with a good tape source.
I can imagine having tape just to own and play the occasional "master tape" of my favorite stuff.
Problem is I'd probably never want to listen to digital again, and there goes the budget for media. Digital is so easy and inexpensive that it is good to not know what I'm missing. :)
Where would you get "master tapes"?
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt We all have our favorite CD/LP that we think is of superior quality. There may be now or in the future boutiques that will cater to quality reproductions that are closer to the master tape. Tapes in general are expensive, and inconvenient so I'd save this media for my 20 most cherished albums.
I always remember when my friend who is the lead singer of a band called Faithless played me the original recordings on reels from their first album from 1996. I have never heard anything like it, it felt like you were in the room with them at the time. He explained to me that the tape records a lot more of the frequencies beyond audible range so it gives you a lot more feeling
@wayne You’re friends with Maxi Jazz?
Amazing, interesting, entertaing, and insightful.
I really buzz my head off now... If old stuff is great then why did you upgrade all gears? 🥲
But there were a long discussion about as time goes by, the better tape heads and cartridges are getting.
And Miles like his TT when he can change a tone arm in 5min plus have more than one tone arm mounted in the TT. That is something we can't do on a LP12 for example.
Same with the RIAA, try to find a old RIAA that you can adjust loading during playback with a remote, that's fine tuning.
So there is several different reasons to upgrade.
Old stuff is great but in some aspects new stuff is better of obvious reasons.
I had the same question. Why would he give up the dhalquists.
@@westernartifact580 if he owns and have first hand experience with Dahlqvist then he has most likely heard something better. And Dahlqvist needed to go.
Why do we lust for old and apparently not top notch sound quality speaker?
Hey, this is off topic, but what do you think of the Yamaha A-S801 vs. Cambridge CXA81? Which would you say is a better value for the money and will most likely favor more speakers? They are about $300-400 difference. Appreciate it.
I have 6 reel to reel decks floating around, none of them hooked up. I always felt like I needed an EE degree to set them up properly. I have this quad tape of Stick Men that I want to hear, at some point I will attempt to wire up one of the Tascam 4 tracks to my Denon AV amp using the multichannel direct inputs. It weighs about 2,000 pounds (it seems), and my memory is that the tape hiss is louder than LP surface noise. We shall see. Maybe.
Have AKAI GX400D and bunch of pre-recorded tapes, just listened to my copy of Imagine by Lennon. It sounds amazing.
Cool interview obviously some big $$ stuff so a "fair" comparison in terms of what's possible. Personally I am full into cassettes and Nakamichi in particular. Fortunately have a lot of chrome tapes which the Maxell have stood a 40 year test of time in terms of sound but also mechanism. TDK SA not so much and the squeaky ones really annoy. Making full album cassettes off of the youtube with adblock is a great way to pirate music I mean to enjoy it at low investment.
@@keplermission4947 the Nakamichi has a "plummy" sound? I never heard of that term but apparently it is British upper class with clipped vowels? Anyway the ZX-9 has bias and azimuth adjustment but I don't mess with that although I do try to keep the heads cleaned and even demagnetize occasionally. Yes I do have a few CD players and even a CDR unit and blank music 80 min CDs that are pretty good from Maxell at a buck each or thereabouts. The current Maxell cassette tapes are terrible really bad.
@@keplermission4947 interesting. My Infinity Kappa 8 with the ribbon tweeters front and back have adjustments to turn up the highs and or mids. I've always left them at so called normal or flat. Maybe I misunderstood you originally and apparently you are saying that CD has no "real" high end and likewise the Nakamichi? What does reproduce the highs, vinyl?
Me too
Nice content. For mere mortals I would choose records over tape every time. Would a custom reel to reel costing thousands sound better than vinyl. I am sure it does, but with cartridge tech and table tech continuing to push forward I would argue it’s a much closer fight than people think.
Do a part 2, please!
Mr.Astor is probably the highest level audiophile caste! ( he has a VPI brick on his floor lamp base, for gods sake )
I knew two guys that built Recording Studios that might be at a higher stratosphere.
and then there are Mastering Guys like Mr.Ludwig and Mr.Katz....
Vinyl people shouldn't own Cats. ( should they ?, wife's Cats ??? )
Thank you for letting us see the Goldmund stuff.
I'm gonna hunt down this man's writings, he seems to be sharing a fascinating philosophy while pursuing his peregrinations.
Awesome.
I will never understand getting into reels. If there's an album you want, it's bound to be rare as can be and expensive as all hell.
I'm a huge Eno fan and I'd be willing to bet it would be cheaper to fly Eno out to my house and have him play for me in my living room than find a reel copy of his work.
Have you ever heard reel to reel tape?
I’m very much into tape and have seen exactly ONE Eno tape appear before, a UK production master appeared on EBAY once. Never seen another.
Hey steve
This is not related to this video but is something i was wondering about.
Going back to the kit built Pass amps,
I think it would be fun to try them with a high quality power supply/wall wart since it is so important and critical part of the sound.
I loved my old reel to reel.
I replayed this five times and still can't make out what kind of DAC he's saying right before the Ruby cartridge.
Not sure what you’re referring to, there is no digital in the system
5.00 minutes in he says something like, "the Audionote DAC which is a really nice DAC ..."
Cheers
Mike
@@ME-ik4ys Yes, he says Audio Note, which is a British company that makes DACs among other things.
I also have Evo speakers.
Wharfedale Evo 4.4
Lol.
Question: the difference between vinyl and tape that would be the most important to me would be in buying second hand (estate sales, thrift stores etc.). Can you tell upon close experienced examination about whether a tape is going to sound good or not in the same way you could with vinyl? I think if you buy from experienced and reputable resellers this wouldn’t be AS important but having no experience with tape what do you look for to get your best guess on the condition of the media/recording?
are the differences between tape and vinyl due mostly to the equipment (tape heads and the cartridge/preamp)?
I think some of the difference can be attributed to decisions made a mastering.
If Myles appeared every Monday it would be the Monday With Myles podcast.
Logic prevails!
Tape might be the most enduring media.
If by enduring, you mean physically last the longest? Tape will inherently dry out and the coating flake off. Optical with different layers with different expansion coefficients will separate and be unusable. While vinyl, unless physically attacked, can survive almost indefinitely with minimal environmental conditions.
Why do Lyra cartridges look like they have a piece of a dryer sheet glued to the bottom?
Do I see a couple old VPI Magic Bricks on the floor?
Hi Steve, big fan, could you please check out krix speakers
Steve , do you mean like from the original Bird , its 2 wings...but with the right Master, of course...? Shema!!!
My wife having a preview of my audio disease when I put some Maggie IICs in her living room, saw her opportunity when we shopped for a home and found a place with a studio built over the garage. She took one look and said that is where my audio stuff was going. I loved it. a complete room I could destroy with LPS, audio gear and making audio cables. Domestic bliss in the form of an audio retreat.
Very interesting, I wonder how many people there are worldwide with reel to reel in their systems buying releases at $200-$300 bucks a pop.
Rolls Royce is to the auto world, as tape is to the audiophile world.
@1:16 "How did you become an audiophile? It's not, like, a normal thing to be?"
Respectfully, I disagree. it is 100% normal. The phrasing of that question, however, could be questioned.
People that enjoy this hobby should never feel as though they are not normal.
Does our host have 200,000 abnormal subscribers, and countless more that have not subscribed? Is our host abnormal?
I will never knock this hobby, nor anyone that participates in this hobby (other than when unwarranted aspersions are made, or trolls spread misinformation).
Far from this hobby not being normal, it is quite healthy.
-----
As to comparing reel-to-reel to vinyl pressings...
No two pressings sound the same. You can grab two pressings, from the same run, and their sound quality will differ. They might be darn close -- but they will not be exactly the same.
And many (MANY) vinyl pressing just plain suck, even though they were made close to the master. Sometimes that pressing machine just does a lousy job when it stamps out a pressing.
So a cherry picked pressing should be used to compare reel-to-reel to vinyl. And Myles Astor (your guest) is correct, that the tape will win, as it does not suffer from tracking issues, etc.
Your guest, Myles Astor, knows his craft. It was refreshing to hear someone accurately dispense his knowledge and hard to find information on this hobby. If we had more Myles in this hobby, we would have less trouble with people spewing nonsense in the forums.
If we had Myles running recording studios, we would not have so much crappy sounding releases.
Alas, we are limited by the number of Myles we can get out of this hobby. ;-)
As to “normal” question by Steve: relax friend! That’s just a particular branch of NYC humor. I’m in FL now, and I miss that kind of phrasing.
@@pdcragin33 Thank you, doctor.
I agree. He’s a level headed guy.
“Branch” of humor? Is that another NY style misapplication of the Language? Oh, wait, the theme is civil discourse….. I won’t call you an idiot.
The naive audio experiments; in the early 70's I bought a Revox Dolby deck thinking I'd preserve the "original" album play quality by recording it, then archive the record. Ha! the dolby did quiet surface noise but at a very noticeable loss in detail and air. Without Dolby even at 71/2ips, not as good as the record. Direct mic guitar recording was superb though. Access to master tape copies was undreamed of back then...out of budget now. Interesting interview anyway...recent purchase on Steve's recommend: Holly Cole, Temptation CD...excellent!!
Holly Cole's "Don't Smoke in Bed" is even better! The Dolby issue is complicated... Unless your playback heads are **PERFECTLY** aligned, it would affect the high frequencies (and the phase). I went down that road with Barclay Crocker prerecorded tapes and an Advent Dolby "B" processor, etc. I had an old Rotel processor, but lightning got that one! The best prerecorded Dolby reel to reels were made by London and I have some priceless (to me anyway!) Bernard Herrmann reels with Dolby.
@@jimcoope7194 Thanks for the Holly Cole recommend, I'll check it out. The Revox is long gone, traded for a Carver 4000 preamp...a questionable trade! Perhaps the radio station that bought it aligned the heads. I gather from this thread all playback heads of the day were sub par. I leave Dolby to home theater duties these days. Those 10" red reels were sexy though...
Try comparing 45rpm with the tape! Very close!
Until you start hearing the inner groove distortion.
Man, tape sounds nice but, $$$ to expensive. What happened to the golden days when there was good modest price equipment? Kudos to you guys who can afford this.
I don’t know which is worst pop & clicks or hiss. I’ll take hiss on my 3 head Nakamichi
The coffins!
Loved this interview as well. I would love to be a tape head but its out of my budget.
Love both media
what about Betamax? LOL While we're being loyal to analog could I get you review the Parks Audio Puffin let us know why nobody else hasn't already gone this route . or have they?
What about cassette tape? I grew up exclusively with cassette tapes. I've rarely used or heard reel to reel.
I love cassettes and have alot of old still usable and in fact not made anymore chrome. The price for NOS chrome is bad enough but no longer made metal tapes are ridiculous. Commercial cassettes were typically crap tape so that didn't help the whole cassette industry. Dolby was and is terrible and shall never be used if you have a machine worth it's salt. Reel to reel sounds silly pricey for the tapes and really a good cassette recording is pretty darn good. I mean this guy has some very pricey stuff and my system is no slouch and I can't hear the difference with a cassette recording vs original in fact many times adjusting recording level is a plus because it was too hot or sometimes one channel is way too loud for example.
Having hearing that's too good can be a financial burden.
How much does he charge for the "positive feedback" ?
Well, it’s not his magazine, he writes for them. Check out their website
I was ripped off buying a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10's, sort of. I traveled about 60 miles to Malibu, CA to some millionaires house up on the hills with unbelievable views of the ocean to purchase these. I get them home, all excited only to find out the woofers were the wrong type, and not original because they didn't fit. Luckily, the woofers were some really sought after type, and I sold them as well as other parts from the speakers for a tad more than I paid for the speakers. It was a hassle, but I got my money back, and we had a nice drive to the beach so all ended well. Why would a millionaire sell a $400 set of speakers he knew were not up to par, and not as advertised? What a greedy SOB! 😁👍✌
Probably didn’t know better.
I used a Revox A77 Mk4 as a teen, recording instrument samples and putting my favorite digital songs on a mix tape. It always sounded superior in musicality to anything.
It's not an expensive medium if you get some good blank tape and roll your own so to speak (from music that you have legally acquired of course).
I now have another A77 with custom variable speed mods that will do 33.3ips :)
You know
Unfortunately I lost interest when I realised the speakers cost $40000. And who knows the cost of the electronics. Am I wrong in believing he lives in an apartment ? Hence the ability to use this equipment to its full potential is limited. Also these speakers are built for large rooms.
All in all his reviews are of limited use in the real world
I hear you, but I review a wide price range of products.
RS-1506 direct tape head line mod is a hack job. Should have wired from inside. And if you're informed about 1/4" tape you'd have a ReVox or Studer so bias and eq could be aligned to tape. Your kind of snobbery is just blah blah talk
They are alike, they’re both very low fidelity.
yes but they are both better than digital
Compared to?
How sad for you
Notice Myles last name? If he's in the tycoon's gene pool, it might explain the lack of cost being an issue. In this country there are about 330 million different ideas of what disposable income is.