The fact that the first Grey Knight chapter master was a thousand sons legionaire with the noble shard of Magnus... their loyalty was absolute... until Magnus had to pray to Tzeench that is...
@senatorarmstrong1474 No, during the Horus heresy, the first Grand master of the newly created Grey Knights was Revuel Arvida, who was one of the loyalist Thousand sons. He was given the position by Malcador. He was renamed Janus upon taking the position. During the months of shame in 444-451 of the 41st millennium, Logan Grimnar killed Joros, master of the 8th brotherhood of the Grey Knights. In Grimnars defence though, Joros was a total ass clown and deserved to get destroyed by the great wolf. 'The Emperors Gift' by Aaron Dembski-Bowden is a great novel telling the story of a Grey Knight, Hyperion 'Bladebreaker' in the 1st war of Armageddon and the following months of shame
Tragic all around. Magnus veiled the world from all communications to prevent his sons destroying the Imperial censure fleet, but had they been allowed to communicate they would have heard Russ begging them to surrender. Literally begging. Prospero was the greatest masterpiece of Tzeentch. Recruited one Legion, crippled another, and guaranteed the Emperor would be sidelined from the war while destroying his greatest work at the same time.
Remembrancer: "Lord Russ, THAT person you're trying to send a message through is NOT an astropath; it's the ship's reclamation servitor. It JUST got done cleaning the toilets..." Russ: "OH, my mistake. I thought it was a psyker from the way it smells... could you excuse me for a second? CAPTAIN!! Over here... (Kill that remembrancer and bring me a more gullible one, NOW!! I want to burn this rock before it sees its next sunrise, and I can't have have the Imperium or it's records know HOW MUCH I've wanted to do this...)
I'd like to imagine that if Russ could, he would have looked upon his brother in the moments where he spoke before the battle of the fang, and simply said. "The only thing that hasn't changed, brother, is you."
Ironically Leman suffered from the same flaw as Magnus, arrogance manifesting as a superiority complex. He never believed the tactics of other legions weren't worth implementing, but that only him and his legion had the wisdom and emperor's remit to utilize them.
@@goldietheswagbear8288 This true, and it’s what damned them. I am just saying that Vlka Fenrika and Leman of 30k can be just as arrogant but they just have a different approach. Their warpcraft is intentionally more restrained so if the mess up the damage is more contained.
Russ thought going planetside to reason with Angron was a worthwhile endeavor but doing so for Magnus of all people was not. Pretty funny to see wolves get thrashed either way. Hopefully Tzeentch lets Magnus teleport their dumb ass planet into the nearest sun sometime soon.
@@carboxylic5452 yeah sure him and the lion both. It doesn't matter. There's clarifying lore and then there's treating it like our sports teams. Don't take it too personally.
It's both Russ and Magnus' fault. But it's mostly Horus' fault that he knew that Erebus was tricking him but chose to worship the ruinous forces anyways.
It was mostly Russ's fault for 1) Indiscriminately bombing a planet full of civilians and a space marine legion that clearly had no idea what was going on 2) Not making any effort to confront Magnus face to face before deciding to orbitally bomb the planet 3) Basically giving Horus exactly what he wanted by letting his hate for his brother and the thousand sons cloud any superior judgement he had. Magnus did plenty wrong but the split between Magnus and Russ' wrongdoings is like 30:70. Prospero happened because Russ wanted it to, and the Imperium paid the price of blood in full by losing the webway war and the emperor.
@@carboxylic5452 So did you just miss the part where Russ tried to contact Magnus and ask him to surrender and return back to Terra peacefully or......? And of course Russ listened to Horus, Horus was the Warmaster and greatest of the Primararchs, he spoke with the Emperor's authority, there was no possible way for Russ to think 'Maybe this is a trap?' it would have been beyond comprehension for anyone to think Horus betrayed the Imperium, even the Emperor himself didn't believe it until he was shown proof.
@@carboxylic5452also, "The Imperium paid the price in blood, losing the Emperor and the Webway" my brother in Christ, those events BOTH happened before Propsero was burned. Those events CAUSED Prospero to be burned, did you not watch the video?
@@tecs513 His half-assed attempt ended short of sending a few marines down in a thunderhawk, considering that he literally went planetside to confront Angron. He could've avoided the burning then and there but he willingly chose not to do it lol
I like Russ. He's a badass loyalist, but he and Lion are hypocrites. Even after learning Horus deceived him, he still thinks Magnus deserves punishment.
Well, Magnus did do nothing, wrong. He killed the dreams of a noble and bright future for humanity, he sacrificed tens of hundreds to accomplish nothing. He burned his own sons, murdered his own people and entirely set his entire home world up for complete genocide after ripping the land line out of the house and smashing all cell phones. And that is just going over the stuff he did in the space of a single book, not even mentioning that he knew Horus was being turned traitor during the Nikea trials.
@@josephjenott931Magnus apologists really struggle to comprehend the full extent of Magnus' actions. I mean the destruction of the Imperial Webway must have led to millions upon millions of deaths wich could've been avoided.
Magnus destroyed the Imperial web way. Opened a permanent gate to the warp. For which the custodies must fight everyday for the past 10,000 years. No he did nothing wrong.
The wolves slaughtered ALL of the civilians on the planet with total glee. They 100% deserved the way they got thrashed at Prospero, Alaxxes, and against the sons of Horus.
Nah. The big aholes in all this were the Custodies. They don't answer to Russ NOR Horus. They should have confirmed the new orders from The Boss before going in. Russ was obligated to obey the Warmaster. The Custodies and Sisters of Silence should have been like "hell no"
@blagojpejov4155 yet for some strange reason, they didn't. Almost like Valdor liked the new orders and decided there was no need to confirm. Or was afraid that he'd lose the chance to off another primarch. ...
He literally didn't. He said as much himself, Bjorn said as much, hell even Magnus himself said he knew Bjorn didn't enjoy any of it and wept at what he had to do.
People forget that. Russ was desperately trying, nearly in tears to contact Magnus above Prospero to sort this out before the genocide that happened, happened. Also that there was a demon in that offplanet Skald that the Wolves were sure was a TS plant/spycam but was another Bird God plan.
Russ went planetside to argue with a literally lobotomized Angron. All it took at Prospero was for a single thunderhawk to go down and inform the legion and Magnus what the fuck was going on. Russ was evidently beyond that. No, the red witch needed to die. So he tried, and the Imperium lost the webway war as well as the emperor. Definitely a price worth paying to slaughter a loyalist legion and their planet full of civilians. (The emperor should've had the lion skin Russ alive and volkite his entire dumbass legion alive for how colossal their fuckup at Prospero was. Losing Magnus meant more than losing the loyalty of 5 other primarchs, because it meant the webway was well and truly lost.)
@@carboxylic5452 wow... man you are not just a Tk sons fanboy. but a blind one at that. Firstly I Don't hate Magnus, i like him for what he is, but Magnus were not that good of a person, even when you take he's good intentions into acount. And have you read 'A Thousand Sons' or 'Prospero Burns'??? "All it took at Prospero was for a single thunderhawk to go down and inform the legion and Magnus what the fuck was going on"... Sure go down to the palnet of beings so strong that they were instromental in the long night...? do you hear your self? Russ gets no word from he's pleas to Magnus and no Vox. Magnus made it som Leman had no other choice then think that it were a trap. then you have Valdor that hated Magnus, and Horus' orders, THAT Leman BROKE to try to talk to Magnus. But no Magnus just closed all. Then you have the "planet full of civilians." I will give you that many of them might not have anything to do with the conflikt. but then agian TK sons, used thier Civilians like Cattel. they disregardet their own pepole and used them as slaves. Magnus is a good eksambel of how it is done. Many of them did not know it them self, others kenw it was to late. but then many of the civilians were saved. they just got send to the BlackShips after. or turend to demons in the Burning Prospero were a tragedy. But to just say that IT all lay on Leman Russ... that is hindsight, and a totaly disregard for the knowledge the plyers had, and the Involvment of the chaos goods and Horus. And don't forget that Leman Russ never got he's oders from Big E but from Malkedore. 40k are not Black and white, it is dark gry with a lot of red. to just give one person the blame, IS to ignore the story completly, and its meaning.
Say what you want about Magnus, the Thousand Sons were among the greatest and most noble imo. They wanted the best for humanity and psychic abilities within the legions could have benefitted everyone. I wish Magnus had stayed loyal, would have been awesome to see!
Love your Videos , and todays subject the thousand sons is very intresting, they get to less Attention , auf geht's Bruder und Schwestern, für den imperator 😁💪🏾
My favorite part of any Burning of Prospero lore video is the legions of people who will say Magnus did nothing wrong, even after you mention everything Magnus did wrong.
Did you correct the Guilliman video where you repeat that Dorn is the primarch of the 6th legion? Are we going to see the imperial fists here or ye just gonna go with wolves are the 7th now???? Ye fecker ye.
I just don't understand why the Emperor didn't just either send a squadron of Custodes to watch over the Thousand Sons like he did with Lorgar and the Word Bearers or just taken them to Terra to help with the Webway Project
I think to the Question If Magnus deserved the punnishment is Not so easy, because Magnus intentions where good to warn the emporor but ended in disaster, and they should have punnished Magnus and Not the whole LEGION!!!😢
A Primarch and his legion are one in the same. Most marines would be ashamed to allow their Primarch to be punished alone for the actions of the entire legion.
But the world eaters for exampel , the half Legion rebelled against angron, so there U See that that isnt Always the Case ,i think that there are a few legions that would be silently Happy If there primarch would die, or Not even die but be punnished by the emperor to Change the path they are taking ,... Sry for My english im from Germany berlin
that was the original plan. bring magnus to terra to punish him. not the whole legion. that was done because horus gave russ falsified orders. it`s not really a question but just you wondering about something that is already explained in detail.
Magnus did many things wrong but he did not deserve what he got. Nearly every hand was against him. Leman and his dogs are hypocritical and single-minded. In a way, Horus intercepting the Astropathic message is evidence that Magnus was right about the risks. And Leman’s unquestioning pettiness has prevented the Webway project being salvaged at every turn
Chaos is not a toy though. Magnus kept thinking he could outsmart everyone and come out on top. Rather than leave the game, he kept insisting he could beat The House, only sinking deeper in their debt instead....
@@jamesneese7663If Russ was literate and brought Magnus to Terra with his legion as he was told to, the war in the webway wouldn't have been lost and the emperor probably wouldn't be a vegetable on the throne. Prospero was where the Imperium truly had its' foot blown off, and it was the Wolves' doing.
@@carboxylic5452 read the books again. it was BECAUSE Magnus blew apart the webway opening and caused a backlash along with geller field collapse beneath the palace that The Emperor was a vegetable. THAT is why Russ was sent to arrest Magnus in the first place. NOT the other way around. You're putting the arrest before the crime. Magnus needed all that psyker power back on Prospero because he needed to break all the shields and geller fields around the Imperial Palace to contact the Emperor and that is what caused the mess....
@@jamesneese7663 Yeah, because he had no idea what the webway was and he thought warning the Emperor of imminent betrayal from Horus (and those legions he would shortly sway to his side) was more important. His fuckup (and yes, it was a giant fuckup despite his intentions) could have still been fixed if he and his legion were arrested and brought to Terra like the writ of censure specifically ordered they be. They were not, because the emperor made the mistake of sending the space mongrels and their drunk lobotomite of a primarch to complete a critical task that he could not afford irreparably fucked up. Magnus on Terra means Magnus on the throne, which means Emperor in the webway along with the Custodes and the now free-to-go-super-saiyan-without -risking-fleshchange thousand sons legion. The war in the webway would've been a brutal stomp against the traitor legions, dark mechanicum and demons if the emperor was mobile (like you see him actually turn the tide at the end of Master of Mankind, to the extent that he resurrected a headless Ferrus to lead the imperial forces and could stop a demon as powerful as Drach'nyen). But no. Russ decided that the red witch, his legion, and the civilians of his planet needed to die. So he got what he wanted. The Imperium now rots, and Magnus is a demon primarch whilst Russ is somewhere on vacation in the warp. Sounds worth it to me.
@@carboxylic5452 At this point i am wondering if you are trolling or something. Magnus didn't JUST #$@#$# up....He was WILLFULLY doing so. He KNEW the Emperor had ordered the ceasing of ALL psyker uses in the Imperium but navigators and astropaths. NOTHING else. He could have sent message by fast ship. He could have sent as astropathic message that would have been filed within the Astra Telepathica and eventually sent up the ladder to Big E. but no. Magnus had to do a big display by projecting himself all the way from Prospero to Terra, and upon seeing all the wards and shields around the palace, boldly decided that NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN HIMSELF. It wasn't just about Horus, Magnus was a spiteful child out to show the Imperium "see...psyker powers are awesome! I was right all along! See daddy! are you seeing this!?" so he not only broke the Edict of Nikiea, but then he blithely broke down the gellar fields (did it NEVER occur to him that they could be there for a REASON!? nahhh), almost killing the Emperor in the process..... at that point it's rather amazing the Emperor DIDN"T order Magnus's immediate execution because his arrogance and self righteousness more than earned his death warrent at that point.
Magnus messed up. Russ messed up, but the real fk ups here are the Custodies. Think about it. Russ was ordered by the Warmaster to kill Magnus, not arrest. Even if Russ HAD disagreed, he had zero authority to ignore or disobey the new orders. But the Custodies and Sisters of Silence NEVER answer to the Warmaster. If the Emperor's orders are changed/revised, then it either has to come STRAIGHT from Him or they should immediately demand confirmation from Terra. Valdor doesnt answer to Russ or Horus. That Valdor never questioned the new kill order was completely against chain of command, unless one thinks Valdor WANTED the kill order to be real and accepted it, to have plausible deniability if things went south on Prospero....😢
Calling Prospero Magnus' fault is like if your younger child totalled your car by accident and your idiot older child stabbed him to death in retribution. Russ didn't need to be as much of a bloodthirsty mongrel as he was. Prospero happened because he gave Horus exactly what he wanted by giving into his bigotry, while Valdor was too lazy to bother giving Leman superior counsel.
It's not inexplicable, the explanation is very simple. Sons fanboys have no balls and no brains, and can't take responsibility for your own actions (just like your traitor Primarch) lol [Just bantering with you, the Thousand Sons are awesome]
Chaos needed more advantage, and having a psycher-rich legion as an enemy is not good... a single regular thousand son is equivalent to at least 5 non-psycher astarte... so ye, they have to fall
For those that say Russ "begged" Magnus to surrender, knowing Russ he let the phone ring once, for a tenth of a second, hung up IMMEDIATELY, and then said, " OK, NOW we can burn it..." while wringing his hands.
@Aequitas_RJ in the propsero burns, he tried everything. Even using s spy placed among his ranks to get his brother to turn himself in. Both were played like a fiddle by the changer of ways
"Worse" lol. Was it the Wolves who destroyed the Webway project? Was it the Wolves who put a psychic veil over Prospero, blocking all communications? Was it the Wolves who gave their souls to Chaos when they found they didn't have the stomach to accept the fate they chose for themselves?!
He didn’t do a lot wrong yes but he wasn’t perfect other than that I agree Horus essentially betrayed the Emperor and Magnus by forcing the space wolfs onto the thousand sons
Remember when Russ ignored direct orders from the Emperor, blasting through his psychic wards and destroying the Emperors greatest work? Remember when Russ sentenced his entire home planet rather than facing up to his mistakes like a man? Remember when Russ decided he couldn't actually go through with his own ridiculous suicide plan and gave his soul to Chaos at the last second? Oh wait, that was all Magnus LOL
@@richter6699 remember when Leman Russ was a complete hypocrite and said that his men didn't draw power from the warp but instead from their own home world, but then could never explain how exactly that worked just that it did and believed they were safe the use the warp? Remember when Leman launched an attack on another legions home world and killed the entire civilian population for literally no reason? regardless of whether the thousand sons were guilty or not the civilian population in the tens of millions was completely innocent Remember when Russ was really easy to trick by Horus into attacking prospero despite the fact that even Constantine Valdor (the head of the custodian guard) said it didn't seem like something the emperor would've wanted? Remember when Leman Russ said Magnus needed to be censured because the flesh change was a clear sign of their corruption, despite the fact that the wolfen had already been around for quite a while at this point and Leman kept covering it up, just like Magnus had been doing with the flesh change? Remember when after Leman Russ found out that Horus had tricked him he only wanted revenge on Horus for the fact that he tricked him and never really thought, oh wait maybe I shouldn't have tried to wipe out an entire loyalist legion and their planet, or wondered why their defenses were down or why they kept trying to save the civilian population or why they were completely unprepared for a fight? Yeah Magnus isn't great but leman is just the worst
I know that Gw would never do it because SW fans would cry out in their collective injured egos but, personally, Leman coming back as warp corrupted and tricked by Tzeentch due to his shame and desperate for repentance would actually be really interesting.
Magnus did nothing wrong; He was told to do nothing, and he did NOTHING wrong - Oldest joke passed down by scribes. Also the burning of Prospero was legit one my favorite Horus Heresy Novels. Remember brother...There are no wolves on Fenris.
The fact that the first Grey Knight chapter master was a thousand sons legionaire with the noble shard of Magnus... their loyalty was absolute... until Magnus had to pray to Tzeench that is...
Wait, wasn't that chapter master decapitated by Logan Grimnar during Months of Shame?
@senatorarmstrong1474 No, during the Horus heresy, the first Grand master of the newly created Grey Knights was Revuel Arvida, who was one of the loyalist Thousand sons. He was given the position by Malcador. He was renamed Janus upon taking the position.
During the months of shame in 444-451 of the 41st millennium, Logan Grimnar killed Joros, master of the 8th brotherhood of the Grey Knights. In Grimnars defence though, Joros was a total ass clown and deserved to get destroyed by the great wolf.
'The Emperors Gift' by Aaron Dembski-Bowden is a great novel telling the story of a Grey Knight, Hyperion 'Bladebreaker' in the 1st war of Armageddon and the following months of shame
@@senatorarmstrong1474 nope, it was Janus, whom Malcador saved, he was a thousand sons legionaire
@@shimazutakuma1031Revuel Arvada was his name while in the thousand sons before he became Janus.
Thousand Sons was the first 40K book I ever read. What a tome I started with.
I’d argue that the culmination of “ A Thousand Sons” and “Prospero Burns” is legitimately the best fiction in the heresy era.
7:15. When Lorgar, of all people, is the reasonable voice here
“Prospero, Home. At least it was before i fückėd everything up.”
- Magnus The Red
😂
@@jackbelmont4389sasss😅s😅
@@jackbelmont4389sa😢s😢😅😢😮😮😢😢😢😮😮😮 2:38 really
Ahriman to Space Wolves: You picked the wrong house, fool!
Here's a twist: Many Thousand Sons join the Deathwatch as Black Shields. =][=
This a theory or canon? Because that would be an incredible bit of lore 🙂
The Deathwatch wasn't even founded yet...
@@ThatDragonGuy Black Shields not Deathwatch
I don't know any black shields going full flesh change so that's impossible
Or found the Blood Ravens.
Tragic all around. Magnus veiled the world from all communications to prevent his sons destroying the Imperial censure fleet, but had they been allowed to communicate they would have heard Russ begging them to surrender. Literally begging.
Prospero was the greatest masterpiece of Tzeentch. Recruited one Legion, crippled another, and guaranteed the Emperor would be sidelined from the war while destroying his greatest work at the same time.
Remembrancer: "Lord Russ, THAT person you're trying to send a message through is NOT an astropath; it's the ship's reclamation servitor. It JUST got done cleaning the toilets..."
Russ: "OH, my mistake. I thought it was a psyker from the way it smells... could you excuse me for a second? CAPTAIN!! Over here... (Kill that remembrancer and bring me a more gullible one, NOW!! I want to burn this rock before it sees its next sunrise, and I can't have have the Imperium or it's records know HOW MUCH I've wanted to do this...)
That’s the coolest, best narration of The Emperor I’ve heard
I'd like to imagine that if Russ could, he would have looked upon his brother in the moments where he spoke before the battle of the fang, and simply said. "The only thing that hasn't changed, brother, is you."
Ironically Leman suffered from the same flaw as Magnus, arrogance manifesting as a superiority complex. He never believed the tactics of other legions weren't worth implementing, but that only him and his legion had the wisdom and emperor's remit to utilize them.
being arrogant with the warp can cause more damage
@@goldietheswagbear8288 This true, and it’s what damned them. I am just saying that Vlka Fenrika and Leman of 30k can be just as arrogant but they just have a different approach. Their warpcraft is intentionally more restrained so if the mess up the damage is more contained.
Horus knew what he was doing when he sent Lehman to prospero
Magnus is not innocent at all, but Russ is also a big hypocrite.
But that's his charm.
Russ thought going planetside to reason with Angron was a worthwhile endeavor but doing so for Magnus of all people was not.
Pretty funny to see wolves get thrashed either way. Hopefully Tzeentch lets Magnus teleport their dumb ass planet into the nearest sun sometime soon.
@@carboxylic5452
Seethe.
@@wavesfromthedarksea That's what Russ did when he got to Terra too late
@@carboxylic5452 yeah sure him and the lion both. It doesn't matter. There's clarifying lore and then there's treating it like our sports teams. Don't take it too personally.
It's both Russ and Magnus' fault.
But it's mostly Horus' fault that he knew that Erebus was tricking him but chose to worship the ruinous forces anyways.
Always comes back to fuck Erebus 😂
It was mostly Russ's fault for
1) Indiscriminately bombing a planet full of civilians and a space marine legion that clearly had no idea what was going on
2) Not making any effort to confront Magnus face to face before deciding to orbitally bomb the planet
3) Basically giving Horus exactly what he wanted by letting his hate for his brother and the thousand sons cloud any superior judgement he had.
Magnus did plenty wrong but the split between Magnus and Russ' wrongdoings is like 30:70. Prospero happened because Russ wanted it to, and the Imperium paid the price of blood in full by losing the webway war and the emperor.
@@carboxylic5452 So did you just miss the part where Russ tried to contact Magnus and ask him to surrender and return back to Terra peacefully or......? And of course Russ listened to Horus, Horus was the Warmaster and greatest of the Primararchs, he spoke with the Emperor's authority, there was no possible way for Russ to think 'Maybe this is a trap?' it would have been beyond comprehension for anyone to think Horus betrayed the Imperium, even the Emperor himself didn't believe it until he was shown proof.
@@carboxylic5452also, "The Imperium paid the price in blood, losing the Emperor and the Webway" my brother in Christ, those events BOTH happened before Propsero was burned. Those events CAUSED Prospero to be burned, did you not watch the video?
@@tecs513 His half-assed attempt ended short of sending a few marines down in a thunderhawk, considering that he literally went planetside to confront Angron. He could've avoided the burning then and there but he willingly chose not to do it lol
I like Russ. He's a badass loyalist, but he and Lion are hypocrites. Even after learning Horus deceived him, he still thinks Magnus deserves punishment.
Well, Magnus did do nothing, wrong. He killed the dreams of a noble and bright future for humanity, he sacrificed tens of hundreds to accomplish nothing. He burned his own sons, murdered his own people and entirely set his entire home world up for complete genocide after ripping the land line out of the house and smashing all cell phones. And that is just going over the stuff he did in the space of a single book, not even mentioning that he knew Horus was being turned traitor during the Nikea trials.
@@josephjenott931Magnus apologists really struggle to comprehend the full extent of Magnus' actions.
I mean the destruction of the Imperial Webway must have led to millions upon millions of deaths wich could've been avoided.
@@Oppen1945 if only Horus wasn't an idiot.
Magnus destroyed the Imperial web way. Opened a permanent gate to the warp. For which the custodies must fight everyday for the past 10,000 years. No he did nothing wrong.
@mikeseymour1792 All be cause Horus made a idiotic decision
I feel sorry for the Thousand sons who were far from the wolves purge yet slain regardless of circumstances...
The wolves slaughtered ALL of the civilians on the planet with total glee. They 100% deserved the way they got thrashed at Prospero, Alaxxes, and against the sons of Horus.
What an amazing video, I'm loving this new theme/tone during this video. May e it's just me, but this video hit differently. Keep feeding me bro.
Probably heard this lore a hundred times, but really enjoy your narration style
Image at 37:51 by Phillip Sibbering
That was a good way to spend an hour. Thanks!
Can’t wait to read the Thousands sons Trilogy, wish the books weren’t so expensive, but this video is a great substitute.
Hot damn this gonna be a good one. One of the most tragic tales😊
Damm it Leman Your actions doomed the imperium Magnus was needed to be brought back to terra to fix the damages he did to the webway
He was manipulated by Horus
@@TheEdemund I know and Because of Horus the Emperor cant leave the golden throne or all of Terra will be consumed by the warp rift created
Nah. The big aholes in all this were the Custodies. They don't answer to Russ NOR Horus. They should have confirmed the new orders from The Boss before going in. Russ was obligated to obey the Warmaster. The Custodies and Sisters of Silence should have been like "hell no"
@@jamesneese7663 The Custodes especially Valdor should have reminded Russ that the Emperor orders were to bring Magnus back to terra
@blagojpejov4155 yet for some strange reason, they didn't. Almost like Valdor liked the new orders and decided there was no need to confirm. Or was afraid that he'd lose the chance to off another primarch. ...
Magnus is all psychic power with zero wisdom.
Russ' legion is all psy-ahem, I mean Wyrd power with even less wisdom and double the bloodthirst
russ enjoyed every moment of it.
He literally didn't. He said as much himself, Bjorn said as much, hell even Magnus himself said he knew Bjorn didn't enjoy any of it and wept at what he had to do.
@@tecs513 well you know... Maybe he could have paused and think for a second. Difficult for a space Wolf, I know...
It burned because Magnus acted like a dumbass and turned off all communication and security and ghosted the wolf king.
People forget that. Russ was desperately trying, nearly in tears to contact Magnus above Prospero to sort this out before the genocide that happened, happened.
Also that there was a demon in that offplanet Skald that the Wolves were sure was a TS plant/spycam but was another Bird God plan.
Russ went planetside to argue with a literally lobotomized Angron.
All it took at Prospero was for a single thunderhawk to go down and inform the legion and Magnus what the fuck was going on.
Russ was evidently beyond that. No, the red witch needed to die. So he tried, and the Imperium lost the webway war as well as the emperor.
Definitely a price worth paying to slaughter a loyalist legion and their planet full of civilians.
(The emperor should've had the lion skin Russ alive and volkite his entire dumbass legion alive for how colossal their fuckup at Prospero was. Losing Magnus meant more than losing the loyalty of 5 other primarchs, because it meant the webway was well and truly lost.)
@@carboxylic5452 wow... man you are not just a Tk sons fanboy. but a blind one at that. Firstly I Don't hate Magnus, i like him for what he is, but Magnus were not that good of a person, even when you take he's good intentions into acount. And have you read 'A Thousand Sons' or 'Prospero Burns'???
"All it took at Prospero was for a single thunderhawk to go down and inform the legion and Magnus what the fuck was going on"... Sure go down to the palnet of beings so strong that they were instromental in the long night...? do you hear your self? Russ gets no word from he's pleas to Magnus and no Vox. Magnus made it som Leman had no other choice then think that it were a trap. then you have Valdor that hated Magnus, and Horus' orders, THAT Leman BROKE to try to talk to Magnus. But no Magnus just closed all.
Then you have the "planet full of civilians." I will give you that many of them might not have anything to do with the conflikt. but then agian TK sons, used thier Civilians like Cattel. they disregardet their own pepole and used them as slaves. Magnus is a good eksambel of how it is done. Many of them did not know it them self, others kenw it was to late.
but then many of the civilians were saved. they just got send to the BlackShips after. or turend to demons in the Burning
Prospero were a tragedy. But to just say that IT all lay on Leman Russ... that is hindsight, and a totaly disregard for the knowledge the plyers had, and the Involvment of the chaos goods and Horus. And don't forget that Leman Russ never got he's oders from Big E but from Malkedore.
40k are not Black and white, it is dark gry with a lot of red. to just give one person the blame, IS to ignore the story completly, and its meaning.
Say what you want about Magnus, the Thousand Sons were among the greatest and most noble imo. They wanted the best for humanity and psychic abilities within the legions could have benefitted everyone. I wish Magnus had stayed loyal, would have been awesome to see!
Love your Videos , and todays subject the thousand sons is very intresting, they get to less Attention , auf geht's Bruder und Schwestern, für den imperator 😁💪🏾
If the sisters of silence weren't unleashed i wonder if that would've gave magnus a chance
My favorite part of any Burning of Prospero lore video is the legions of people who will say Magnus did nothing wrong, even after you mention everything Magnus did wrong.
I didn't hear anything here that he could've possibly done wrong, he's clearly oppressed and misunderstood, he wanted to help
Magnus the knower before consulting with his father fucked everything up 😂
Excellent video!
All Magnus needed to do is B line it to Tera via warp travel.
Did you correct the Guilliman video where you repeat that Dorn is the primarch of the 6th legion? Are we going to see the imperial fists here or ye just gonna go with wolves are the 7th now???? Ye fecker ye.
Grinding my teeth while still feeling bad for Magnus 😣 Big E tried to tell him
Sry I'm late. This is a great book. 👍
Man that thumbnail hurts but I’m glad the thousand sons got their revenge.
Thousand Sons is a great book
I just don't understand why the Emperor didn't just either send a squadron of Custodes to watch over the Thousand Sons like he did with Lorgar and the Word Bearers or just taken them to Terra to help with the Webway Project
I think to the Question If Magnus deserved the punnishment is Not so easy, because Magnus intentions where good to warn the emporor but ended in disaster, and they should have punnished Magnus and Not the whole LEGION!!!😢
A Primarch and his legion are one in the same. Most marines would be ashamed to allow their Primarch to be punished alone for the actions of the entire legion.
But the world eaters for exampel , the half Legion rebelled against angron, so there U See that that isnt Always the Case ,i think that there are a few legions that would be silently Happy If there primarch would die, or Not even die but be punnished by the emperor to Change the path they are taking ,... Sry for My english im from Germany berlin
that was the original plan. bring magnus to terra to punish him. not the whole legion. that was done because horus gave russ falsified orders. it`s not really a question but just you wondering about something that is already explained in detail.
U are right , thanks Brother, the whole comment was an answer to an opinion roll , during live Chat 😁
Thank you for this account.
Loyalist versus loyalist.
Magnus did many things wrong but he did not deserve what he got. Nearly every hand was against him.
Leman and his dogs are hypocritical and single-minded.
In a way, Horus intercepting the Astropathic message is evidence that Magnus was right about the risks. And Leman’s unquestioning pettiness has prevented the Webway project being salvaged at every turn
Chaos is not a toy though. Magnus kept thinking he could outsmart everyone and come out on top. Rather than leave the game, he kept insisting he could beat The House, only sinking deeper in their debt instead....
@@jamesneese7663If Russ was literate and brought Magnus to Terra with his legion as he was told to, the war in the webway wouldn't have been lost and the emperor probably wouldn't be a vegetable on the throne.
Prospero was where the Imperium truly had its' foot blown off, and it was the Wolves' doing.
@@carboxylic5452 read the books again. it was BECAUSE Magnus blew apart the webway opening and caused a backlash along with geller field collapse beneath the palace that The Emperor was a vegetable. THAT is why Russ was sent to arrest Magnus in the first place.
NOT the other way around. You're putting the arrest before the crime. Magnus needed all that psyker power back on Prospero because he needed to break all the shields and geller fields around the Imperial Palace to contact the Emperor and that is what caused the mess....
@@jamesneese7663 Yeah, because he had no idea what the webway was and he thought warning the Emperor of imminent betrayal from Horus (and those legions he would shortly sway to his side) was more important.
His fuckup (and yes, it was a giant fuckup despite his intentions) could have still been fixed if he and his legion were arrested and brought to Terra like the writ of censure specifically ordered they be.
They were not, because the emperor made the mistake of sending the space mongrels and their drunk lobotomite of a primarch to complete a critical task that he could not afford irreparably fucked up.
Magnus on Terra means Magnus on the throne, which means Emperor in the webway along with the Custodes and the now free-to-go-super-saiyan-without -risking-fleshchange thousand sons legion.
The war in the webway would've been a brutal stomp against the traitor legions, dark mechanicum and demons if the emperor was mobile (like you see him actually turn the tide at the end of Master of Mankind, to the extent that he resurrected a headless Ferrus to lead the imperial forces and could stop a demon as powerful as Drach'nyen).
But no. Russ decided that the red witch, his legion, and the civilians of his planet needed to die. So he got what he wanted.
The Imperium now rots, and Magnus is a demon primarch whilst Russ is somewhere on vacation in the warp. Sounds worth it to me.
@@carboxylic5452 At this point i am wondering if you are trolling or something. Magnus didn't JUST #$@#$# up....He was WILLFULLY doing so. He KNEW the Emperor had ordered the ceasing of ALL psyker uses in the Imperium but navigators and astropaths. NOTHING else.
He could have sent message by fast ship. He could have sent as astropathic message that would have been filed within the Astra Telepathica and eventually sent up the ladder to Big E.
but no. Magnus had to do a big display by projecting himself all the way from Prospero to Terra, and upon seeing all the wards and shields around the palace, boldly decided that NOTHING COULD POSSIBLY BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN HIMSELF. It wasn't just about Horus, Magnus was a spiteful child out to show the Imperium "see...psyker powers are awesome! I was right all along! See daddy! are you seeing this!?"
so he not only broke the Edict of Nikiea, but then he blithely broke down the gellar fields (did it NEVER occur to him that they could be there for a REASON!? nahhh), almost killing the Emperor in the process.....
at that point it's rather amazing the Emperor DIDN"T order Magnus's immediate execution because his arrogance and self righteousness more than earned his death warrent at that point.
Magnus messed up. Russ messed up, but the real fk ups here are the Custodies. Think about it. Russ was ordered by the Warmaster to kill Magnus, not arrest. Even if Russ HAD disagreed, he had zero authority to ignore or disobey the new orders.
But the Custodies and Sisters of Silence NEVER answer to the Warmaster. If the Emperor's orders are changed/revised, then it either has to come STRAIGHT from Him or they should immediately demand confirmation from Terra. Valdor doesnt answer to Russ or Horus. That Valdor never questioned the new kill order was completely against chain of command, unless one thinks Valdor WANTED the kill order to be real and accepted it, to have plausible deniability if things went south on Prospero....😢
Dude you could do the overmind from the original starcraft .
My PSiquiQ PoWerS CoMe FrOm FENRIs, nOt The WeRp.....sureee buddy. Ride that high horse all you want, while you can 🙄🙄
Boo mutts boo. Gives me something to listen to while to paint my Scarab Occult Terminators. Thank you very much
34:37 low diff fr
I guess you could say “magnus messed up.”
Calling Prospero Magnus' fault is like if your younger child totalled your car by accident and your idiot older child stabbed him to death in retribution.
Russ didn't need to be as much of a bloodthirsty mongrel as he was. Prospero happened because he gave Horus exactly what he wanted by giving into his bigotry, while Valdor was too lazy to bother giving Leman superior counsel.
If he knew so much of the Warp, how come Magnus didn't know about the Chaos Gods?
Magnus may have goofed up once or twice
*Adjusts Inquisitors Sigil* Very nice set the record over there, please sit and listen with me. Recafe? Amisack? Help yourself.
Thank you for the video amazing quality as always I truly have learned much from you.
Thousand Sons did nothing wrong.
the complete and utter hate that i bear for Russ and his legion is almost unexplicable
Magnus is that you?
Ahh a fellow son of the XV? Dirty dogs. Thinking the Inquisition had a point 🤔
It's not inexplicable, the explanation is very simple. Sons fanboys have no balls and no brains, and can't take responsibility for your own actions (just like your traitor Primarch) lol
[Just bantering with you, the Thousand Sons are awesome]
X2
Chaos needed more advantage, and having a psycher-rich legion as an enemy is not good... a single regular thousand son is equivalent to at least 5 non-psycher astarte... so ye, they have to fall
Magnus being a crybaby Butch and letting his world get destroyed is why I really dislike him
You realize a whole lot of this could have been resolved if they actually sat down and talked.
If only Magnus fought from the very beginning.
Yeah, he should have come out earlier so Russ could have snapped him in half a while back.
Space Wolves Legion < Space Wolves Chapter
ALGORITHM
😊
Magnus did.… just so very much wrong.
For those that say Russ "begged" Magnus to surrender, knowing Russ he let the phone ring once, for a tenth of a second, hung up IMMEDIATELY, and then said, " OK, NOW we can burn it..." while wringing his hands.
@Aequitas_RJ in the propsero burns, he tried everything. Even using s spy placed among his ranks to get his brother to turn himself in. Both were played like a fiddle by the changer of ways
Magnus did everything wrong but leman Russ and the wolves hypocrisy is as bad or worse.
"Worse" lol.
Was it the Wolves who destroyed the Webway project? Was it the Wolves who put a psychic veil over Prospero, blocking all communications? Was it the Wolves who gave their souls to Chaos when they found they didn't have the stomach to accept the fate they chose for themselves?!
MAGNUS DID NOTHING WRONG
He didn’t do a lot wrong yes but he wasn’t perfect other than that I agree Horus essentially betrayed the Emperor and Magnus by forcing the space wolfs onto the thousand sons
Leman Russ did everything wrong
Remember when Russ ignored direct orders from the Emperor, blasting through his psychic wards and destroying the Emperors greatest work?
Remember when Russ sentenced his entire home planet rather than facing up to his mistakes like a man?
Remember when Russ decided he couldn't actually go through with his own ridiculous suicide plan and gave his soul to Chaos at the last second?
Oh wait, that was all Magnus LOL
@@richter6699 remember when Leman Russ was a complete hypocrite and said that his men didn't draw power from the warp but instead from their own home world, but then could never explain how exactly that worked just that it did and believed they were safe the use the warp?
Remember when Leman launched an attack on another legions home world and killed the entire civilian population for literally no reason? regardless of whether the thousand sons were guilty or not the civilian population in the tens of millions was completely innocent
Remember when Russ was really easy to trick by Horus into attacking prospero despite the fact that even Constantine Valdor (the head of the custodian guard) said it didn't seem like something the emperor would've wanted?
Remember when Leman Russ said Magnus needed to be censured because the flesh change was a clear sign of their corruption, despite the fact that the wolfen had already been around for quite a while at this point and Leman kept covering it up, just like Magnus had been doing with the flesh change?
Remember when after Leman Russ found out that Horus had tricked him he only wanted revenge on Horus for the fact that he tricked him and never really thought, oh wait maybe I shouldn't have tried to wipe out an entire loyalist legion and their planet, or wondered why their defenses were down or why they kept trying to save the civilian population or why they were completely unprepared for a fight?
Yeah Magnus isn't great but leman is just the worst
Pepperidge Farm remembers
I know that Gw would never do it because SW fans would cry out in their collective injured egos but, personally, Leman coming back as warp corrupted and tricked by Tzeentch due to his shame and desperate for repentance would actually be really interesting.
🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡
Magnus did nothing wrong; He was told to do nothing, and he did NOTHING wrong - Oldest joke passed down by scribes.
Also the burning of Prospero was legit one my favorite Horus Heresy Novels. Remember brother...There are no wolves on Fenris.
I hate space wolves