RV Lithium Battery Upgrade - Battle Born Batteries - Full Time RV Living
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2019
- RV Lithium Battery Upgrade - Battle Born Batteries - Full Time RV Living: Guess who is going lithium??? Are you thinking of a Tiffin battery replacement and upgrade to Battle Born batteries? We will walk you through our lithium batteries install. We are so excited for this battery upgrade and to ditch our lead acid batteries and switch to lithium from Battle Born. This lithium RV battery upgrade is going to change the way we boondock and all us to use all of our appliances without running our generator all day and night. Check out how we were able to do the install ourselves with the help of Lance from Wheelin with the Wendes.
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Well done. The hard part for most of us is finding somebody like Lance who can help install lithium’s and redo the whole system.
Thanks Iggy. Lance was awesome with his guidance and insight. We were lucky for sure!!!
Nice work guys. Seriously, I've been building trucks for 18 years and installed more batteries then anyone should ever do in his life. The way you guys installed these batteries is really top notch. The tray you build is super nice and the cables are perfect. If you took this to a professional, it wouldn't have been this nice. Great job.
Thanks so much. It was all thanks to Lance from Wheelin with the Wendes.
My new favorite RV channel. You guys are a wealth of information about the RV lifestyle and your bloopers crack me up.
Thanks Joe....welcome aboard!!!
Bloopers are the bomb!
The time you put into your videos shows😁
Thanks! It does take hours to put together.
Your going to love them! We just went with 5 Battleborn Batteries, and 1000 watts of solar on the roof. Our first Boondocking experience was for 8 days. No generator needed the entire time. It was pre A/C weather but still....
That is very cool! No solar yet but someday! We cant wait to boondock and test those babies out!
Harold, just wondering if your RV/Coach has a residential fridge, as that seems to be our main power hog to date, other than parasitic drain of course? Also, did you install a Battery Isolation Manager so your alternator can charge the batteries?
You are going to Love your Battle Born Batteries... I have 2 100amh of Battle Born batteries and 500 watts solar installed in my 34ft class A. I spent 4 months out in the desert boondocking on BLM land over the winter. I was totally off grid and I think I only ran my generator a couple of times when we had some bad weather. They are definitely a game changer...
We are really excited to test them out! We start boondocking today.
LetGoAnLive awesome,what kind of fridge you have?
LONG LIVE LITHIUM!!!!! I hope manufacturers are looking at what you did. I just don't know why everyone is so afraid of Li technology. It definitely frees you up and allows you more freedom to roam. I can't wait to get my coach and do what you did. You are my hero!!!
We agree jlarm3. We are excited to stay off grid for longer periods! Here is a link to Battle Born if interested: battlebornbatteries.com?afmc=2e
Probably because lithium batteries are more expensive.
Great job. Have to keep Stacy happy and in power! You guys are a riot. Keep it up!
Thanks!
You guys did a nice job. I am hoping to go with Battle Born in the future. I have a small truck camper and a couple of those would do me nicely. I must say I really enjoy the way you guys do the promotions. I like the way you make it part of the video rather than a separate area. It makes the information more informative.
Thanks Nomadic Lifestyle!! If you do go with Battle Born you will LOVE them. We are just starting to reap the benefits from them but love the fact that we don't have to run the generator as often now! We try our best to make the videos informative and funny.
@@todayissomeday Just an FYI. If you are not against used Solar Panels this company has some pretty sweet deals for someone just starting out it can help them get going. Works best if you can pick up.
santansolar.com/
I was really impressed with how thoughtful you were considering all the requirements of the battery system to meet Stacy's needs. Until I realized Stacy was holding the camera.
Hahahaha
Happy wife = happy LIFE!
Nice job on the install. I installed 4 in our class A and we love them. Sean at BB is super to work with.
Thanks Lyf Uninterrupted! We absolutely LOVE them! Sean and staff have been super helpful and patient with all the newbie questions!!
@@todayissomeday
I am in the Bahamas and the cables are hard to find.
I would love to have you make a dozen of those cables for me
@@edwardshomestead9074 We no longer have the crimper so we would not be able to put them together for you.
I 'so far' have 3 of the Battle Born 100Ah batteries in our Class A, and I'm thinking of upgrading our Battery Isolation Manager to a Li-BIM 225 (made for Lithium) and thought I'd ask if you've upgraded yours in some way?
Already have made the decision to go with Battle Born. We go full time in August and the first upgrade when we sell the house is a full bank of batteries and solar panels. Love the vids and keep it between the ditches.
Awesome! You guys will start out ahead of the game.
Very cool I’m liking it I don’t have that kind of room in my little travel trailer but I want more solar panels and batteries thanks for sharing
WOW! 6 lithium batteries? That's awesome! We got our solar back in February and we love it. We do a lot of boondocking and only have had to "conserve" power a few times. We also only have 2 Battle Born Lithium batteries and they sure were a game changer. If you choose to go solar and want to do boondocking more, you will always have power. We spent on our system just a little more than probably what you payed for the 6 batteries. Keep up the videos and stay safe out there.
We hope to someday have solar as well!!
So nice of Lance to help you out Philz - I think you owe him a beer or three! Another great thing about the Battle Born batteries is they have a 10 year warranty 👍 Longer boondocking stays for you guys! Oh yeah!
Oh you know I paid up Linda. We took them to dinner and bought beer. Couldn't have done this without Lance that's for sure!
@@todayissomeday That's what is so great about this community - all the great new friends you meet who are always willing to share their knowledge and help someone out whenever there is a need. (and beer is the perfect after project digestif)
You call Burger King and PBR, dinner and beer??? JK It was my pleasure to help out! That's what friends are for...
@@WheelinwiththeWendes PBR?.. Philz could have at least sprang for Bud or Miller. He's such a penny pincher 😊
@@lindarose2837 No worries there! We ate and drank well! And... had a great time doing it!
You gotta love Battle Born Batteries. It seems all you full time RVer's are getting them. I know we will also, when our time comes. Great install, take care and be safe.
Oh my goodness Y'all get me on the bloopers have me laughing. That was a great job on the batteries
I have one of these and love it. That said, you can find good lifepo4 batteries for about half the cost. However, if you are new to lifepo4 batteries (like I was) then I think you still get your money's worth with the battleborn since they have outstanding customer service. It doesn't matter how small your setup is, if you have a question they will quickly get back to you with an answer. And trust me, I had LOTS of questions...lol. They were patient though and walked me through it all. Btw, the battery is over 2 years old now and still going strong.
Yes, I have 4 x BBB and having them made right here in RENO, NV I went there to get them and the team are all ROCK STARS!
Good video. Battleborn is a wonderful choice. There are several manufacturers of these new batteries. I went with Battle Born because as manufacturers go out of business, I'm the most confident that Battle Borne will be the front runner. They have, in my opinion, the best battery management system to protect my investment. You will rarely hear their name come up without rave reviews about their tech support. They cost allot of money, but I believe they are the best value. Great warrantee also. I'm not affiliated with them in any way. I boondocks several months per year on solar. Now my generator is now only for a back up system.
We couldnt agree more! They are more than just a great battery, they are a great company and even better people.
Love you cut ups at the end of your videos
Thanks Kevin.
Love the idea of the hybrid Inverter!! A little pricey, but awesome for moochdocking with 15amp service...can boost with batteries!
Exactly....great to have it when needed.
"moochdocking"- hahaha!
I put the Li-Bim 225 in the same place as the current charger relay. Mine is in the battery compartment at the top of the rack on the right. I have a 2015 Phaeton. I wired the ignition wire going to the original charging relay to the ignition post on the 225. Then I jumped the ignition post to the sig post. Tiffin uses the same wire to the relay from the ignition switch and the battery assist button. The power to the ignition switch comes from your chassis batteries and the power for your battery assist comes from your coach batteries. I hope this helps.
Thank you so much for this. It is helpful. When you have time could you snap a few pics and send them to youmeandtherv@gmail.com
@@todayissomeday I'm in the same boat, about to install 6 BBs and not so sure where or how to connect the BIM on a 2021 Allegro Red 37BA. Any chance you would be able to send me any pics of your BIM install or forward what David Brooks sent you? Thanks guys and keep up the great work!!
Phil and Stacy Thank you for such a quick response to battle born batteries Installation Video and what a wonderful job you guys did In April we bought a brand-new 41 foot diesel pusher motorhome So these batteries are going to make our Boondocking Experience much more enjoyable Thank you for all your good advice And your wonderful videos and bloopers
Thank you and enjoy that new rig!
Thanks for posting this. I appreciate you adding your upgrade to the list of others that have done similar upgrades. What a clean install. It was easy to see how you hooked them up in parallel.
Thanks Thomas. I wanted a nice, clean looking system that will run smooth for years to come!
One of the best features of Lithium is you charge at the high current until 100% where lead acid you reduce current at 80% and it takes several hours to get to 100%. You can run Lithium from 100% to 20%, by stopping at 20% to 10% depending on which expert you listen to you can extend the lives. I would never take it down to zero.
Agreed! SOOOO many great features that the BattleBorn lithiums offer! We only named a few. Good point about discharge as well, I never take mine below 20% either. We just wanted to point out that they "could" be completely discharged without damage, compared to their counterparts only being able to accept a 50% DOD before possible damage.
We agree with Lance as well! We dont plan to take them that low but wont panic if it happens.
Seems to be a little confusion here. In general, lithium batteries should not be discharged below the 10-20% State of Charge (SOC) remaining level. To do so risks “bricking the pack”, I.E. turn it into a brick that will not accept a charge. However, each 100 Ah Battle Born battery is actually 120-125 Ah in size (not sure of exact size). They are then artificially limited to 100 Ah of output by their internal Battery Manage,ent System or BMS, to keep things simple for purchasers. That’s why you can completely discharge them to 0% and not worry about damage.
Making Stacey happy is the key
Happy wife.....happy life!!! LOL
OUTSTANDING video!! Phil could you please review the cost?
This set up is about 8k but everyones needs are different.
YOU GUYS ARE GONNA COST ME MONEY!! 😂 We are looking to set up such a battery bank that gives us a peace of mind for the sole purpose of boon docking. Good job again on another informative video.
It is worth the investment!!
Congratulations on your Battle Born's. We love ours also.
So far so good. It took me a few tries to get the settings right....but we are all good now.
Thank you for letting us watch. Helps out tremendously... For those of us who wish to do it ourselves. Probably going to rely on Battleborn for the details from Solar to the batteries, and everything in between.
Great job. You are going to love those new batteries. The only thing that I would recommend doing differently, and this comes from experience, is that after you crimp the ends on your cables, you should also solder them in place. With the amount of heat that will be passing through those cables, and the cable and lugs expanding and contracting at different rates, added with the vibration of driving your house down the road, those lugs will eventually work themselves loose.
Absolutely not! Soldering cables of that type is a fire hazard. Consult a qualified electrician. They will tell you never ever to solder cable of this type. Do use multi strand cable (which of course you did). If the lugs are properly crimped they will not come loose. Looking at the crimper you used, you did it right.
One of the most informational videos I have seen! Really enjoyed it. Can’t wait to see the results of your efforts! The other point, here is a family that you never knew and somewhere on the road you guys meet up and make a plan to install. What a great life!!!
It really is great! We have met some amazing people and made live long connections. We are so blessed.
Great video, Can’t wait to get ours! Stacy, getting to use the hair dryer, microwave , and curling irons without having to worry if the generator is on is so Awesome. And of course the coffee maker.
I’m glad Lance crimped the cables. That is the only way I believe in.
Thanks for the great info. And the bloopers.
😎
Thanks Bill!!!
I really hope RV Manufacturers begin to offer this as a standard package on new RV’s!!!!!
Don’t hold your breath!
PleasureWay, Some Winnebago's and Coachmans Class B models do. The Coachman Galleria 24A floorplan[4 season coach with the optional Polar insulation upgrade] has the Xantrex Freedom E Gen system as an option at $22K consisting of Underhood Generator[extra hi-power alternator 100amps at engine tickover speed], A 600 amphour Lithionics Battery[UL certified], a Battery Management System to control both the Lithium battery and The Underhood Generator plus a 3000watt Xantrex Invertor.
I am sure the higher end coachs will start first but hopefully they will be included in all models as an option eventually.
@@todayissomeday Saw a youtube video on Parliament Prevost conversions. High end, but they are offering their coaches with solar panels lined up from front to back on both sides of the roof, DC air conditioners + Lithium batteries and anticipate 48 hours "living" in the coach as you would on shore power. Marathon offers a lithium option but they said it requires different wiring set up in the coach...not sure why? . It always starts in the high end and trickles down to everybody else so maybe it isn't all that far off.
@@tevans3373 I guess we'll just wait and see although a prewire with all new RVs would be nice.
Now you need solar panels!!! 😇
You two look like Brothers! 👍🏼
That is sometime down the road. I am the better looking one!! LOL
I was wondering how you like the battery upgrade. I would also like to know the dimensions of the plywood for six battle born batteries so I can start building for my batteries. I would also like to thank you both for taking your time to provide the information you do. I find it very helpful. We have a 2015 Tiffin Phaeton and love it.
Thank you in advance for the info.
You're outtakes had me laughing. Great subject as well.
Thanks Gary!
I notice you had Lance doing the contortion work, changing out the inverter. Well done Commander. lol Just kidding. I know your back can't take that kind of punishment. Loved the video. Great information. I love watching you (and your friends) having such a good time, even when you're working. Thanks for taking me along.
No way I'd let Phil get in there. His back might not have made it out, then Stacy would have to start driving Ruby. :-o LOL
Lance is a stud!!! He just jumped in before I could. My back may not have liked that for sure!
Wow. This is so much better than the acid batteries. Glad you did it and for sharing with us.
We are so happy with our decision to upgrade the batteries. It is going to improve our boondocking quality of life for sure.
Nice Job! Get some panels next and you will be set! Can't go wrong with a Lance handyman! HA
Solar will be next....just don't know when!
👍🏻
600 amp hour of usable! awesome
Sure is!
:-) "I gave you a laundry list of stuff to talk about" The Boss has spoken!
😂😂
I finally found the answer to my question with this video... yes, you can drop in lithium batteries in your coach to replace lead acid... with a few tweaks and additions as warranted -- and add solar later if you wish!!! Great video!!
Spot on! Easy peasy!
Thank you! I sure hope to find a Battle Born dealer up in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada!
I'm impressed. Your Six Battle Born battery setup is awesome.
So I see that Lance used to be a contortionist in the circus, or at least he should have been. Nice install and your keepin' mama happy so everyone should be happy. Safe travels.
You know thats right!
And when Stacy is happy, all is right in the world..... Excellent set-up, thanks for sharing!!!
Love watching your videos. After being out of camping for over 30 years
, we got the urge and we bought a class c. Your videos have helped immensely. Thanks.
Congrats!!!
We are jealous, 😊 great video. Thanks for sharing. Now get out there and stay out there 😂🤣 see you on the road 😊🇺🇸
Thanks Janice!!!
Thanks for this video! I may consider changing out our 1 235ah AGM at some point for the Battle Born batteries. Your install gives me confidence I could do it in our small rig.
You wont be sorry! We already love them
Great job and congratulations!! You’re going to LOVE the new batteries!!
We are super excited to test those babies out this weekend!
Thank you so much for sharing your lives and adventures with us.
Nice upgrades! Time for me to open the pocket book and do the same.
I Love this Channel SOOOOOOO Much All you Guys and Gals are SOOO Much fun even Sparky Stacy he is great Yes Sir You are great. God Bless You All. P.S. I am Learning So Much from You all with Next Exit, RV GEEKS, RV education 101 Changing Lanes and IRV2 as well. I really mean it to all of you from my heart. Thank You and may God Bless You and your families abundantly.
Thanks so much!! We love those channels too!
Everybody needs a lance !!!
Agreed!!!
Can we hire Lance? Great job.
Great Job... You guys Rocked It!!!!!
Thanks for the guidance with the settings!!! Miss you guys!!
Go NAVY! Awesome video.
You guys are awesome ...the batteries look great ..Phil ....the only thing I understood you saying was "make Stacey happy" ...LOL!!!!
See how smart he is! lol
I'm more of a diy kind of person, mainly due to fixed income. What I don't know I research. While BB is a great product has great CS (according to Mr. Prowse) but it comes at a price, 1 of their 100 amp batteries will buy me the components to build a 400 amp battery, 8 3.2 v 200 amp cells, wire, the bms and a box to put it all in. All told I have 4 lead batteries to replace, 3 house and 1 starting
Great upgrade, thanks for sharing! Now you need to add on some solar panels, then you can really kick it boondocking. We don't have Lithium batteries yet, but with 3 regular batteries and 300 watts of solar panels we almost never have to use our generator. The neighbors in the desert love us, lol.
We do hope to put up some panels eventually. Right now the budget is maxed out!
600 Amp Hours, that some serious power. I was thinking about buying a Class A and having 300 Amp Hours of Lithium Battery.
It depends on how you plan to live and how much power you consume.
Look at renogy lithium 170 amp hour with 2 you would get 340 amp hours. With 3 510 amp hours. They are a little longer than normal batteies but i fit in my compartment with no modificati. I started with 2 12 volt in that compartment. Remember take your FLA's on lable put a 0 behind it thats what it will draw on 12 volt inverter. Renogy also has 160 watt flexable pannels you can walk on only weigh in at 9lbs no holes to drill to install them. For portable get a 20 foot extention wire kit and lay them out in the sun or use comand hooks to hang them on the side of your RV for extra power. Renogy are great batteries just as good ad battal born. The renogy fles are often on sale at Amazon for $235 each or $255 ea. I notice around holidays I see them for the $235.
I'm really enjoying adventuring with y'all. Smart upgrades to your rig will help us with ours over time so Thanks for the heads up.
Thanks for hanging out with us!
During my research I found that the Li-Bim replaces the relay that connects the coach batteries to the chassis batteries. The wire that goes to operate the solenoid goes to the sig side of the Li-Bim. You should only have to run a wire from the ignition switch to the Li-Bim. On my Phaeton is at the top of the rack in the coach battery compartment. I am collecting all of my parts now.
That was GREAT!! And you two are young enough that its a great investment for you, it'll pay for itself in time, Next solar??
Thanks Teresa. Solar is next, just don't know when.
Sounds like Battle Born is the real deal.
You guys are great you always make me laugh but you always have great information but the way you put it across is just great and funny keep up the good work guys
Thanks so much
Came across your video well looking at RV batteries and yes Lance is a Smart guy I use to cheat off his test paper in high school LoL
Hahahaha.
Awesome...first upgrade I plan on doing
Great Video
Get out there and ... uh....
Giggle
Loved it
We had a blast putting this video together.....you see it isn't that easy to just speak into the camera!! LOL
Impressive. What a clean looking install. I wanna go that route.
It really is! Lance guidance was invaluable!
OK, now where do I find my own personal, "LANCE"? Only half-joking here, We have (2) 6VDC batteries set up in series, and they handle most of our lightweight needs. Other than simply wanting to upgrade, It is not really in our cards. Great video!
Everyone needs a "Lance". LOL
Such a great install by some talented folks! Wishin' y'all the best; keep us informed as to the performance of the new BB batteries. Wishin' y'all the best. Y'all Be Safe!
Thanks and you know we will.
I think I'm going to go with Battle Born and up grade my 5th wheel. Thanks for the video
You will LOVE them William. Here is a link: battlebornbatteries.com?afmc=2e
You guys did a professional job. Beautiful!
Thank you
Gosh. Wish I could have him come change mine out. I am clueless with the inverter/ solar/ battery stuff and would really like to upgrade.
He really knows his stuff!! We are so lucky to have him
I really want to check into Battle Born for my Casita. The battery compartment is barely larger than the one battery and the battery weighs about 70 pounds. There is no way I can even pull it out to do maintenance by myself. Very creative method for installing the inverter. 🤣🤣
Right!! You would not be disappointed with the switch. You would get a lot more actual useable power!
@@todayissomeday That would be an added bonus!
What did you do for battery isolation? BIM or DC-DC converter? Lithium batteries are current hungry and will wreck alternators in a short time! Just a heads up for anyone looking to switch. You must have isolation between the chassis and house batteries.
I have the BIM, just never installed it. I will eventually. My solar charges them up on travels days so the alternator doesn't have too.
Just thinking about going with Battle Born's, as I understand with Lithium's you can start out with what you can afford at the time, and then add to them! We have an '08 Phaeton, and our 4 Interstate 225 Ah batteries are on their last year, and our main issue is that we don't boondocks a lot, but when we do, it's often for a week or more. We also have a residential fridge which has to be taken into account, thus I'm wondering if 2 or 3 would be sufficient for our needs, where we could then add more the next year? We have already had to do some 'expensive to us' repairs, to the rig this year, so it's used up some of our budget! Would like to add some solar at some point as well, and I'd certainly add the Victron you mentioned at the same time as Battleborns! Great video, thanks for doing it!
That is a great plan Dale. Starting out with 3 would be a nice upgrade. With our Battle Borns it pushed us to want to boondock more. Being able to run everything when we want, kinda like in the house, is a huge quality of life game changer for us! Battle Born announced a sale for Black Friday, so that may be an option to help with the budget. Here is our link, if you use this it will not cost you anything and Battle Born gives us credit....no obligation to click on it at all. Battle Born: battlebornbatteries.com?afmc=2e
Great information for this future full-timer. Thanks!
bloopers the best part thanks for sharing
We try to show both sides of the coin.....and that we are NOT professionals in any stretch. LOL
Nice looking job Lance did. I hope you and Stacey enjoy the freedom they give you. So will you park in the solar section at the 2020 annual bash now?
Thanks Macky! No solar yet.....down the road for sure.
If I heard you correctly, you said you were at 50% at 18 hours. You should easy get to 24 hours with what you were running and still have 30%+ battery.
Another big improvement should be charge time. With being able to charge about 100Ah through the Magnum you should see quicker charge times. You probably only need to run the generator about 4 hours per 24 hour period. Let me know your experience with charge times.
Thank you for the video.
Running a generator for 4 hours a day is a clear indicator that a change is needed either in consumption or lifestyle or both. I use no generator and have not that much solar and have but 200 amps AGM (24 volt). Think outside the box to accomplish more with less.
We are hoping not to need the generator but maybe every other day but we will see what happens. We will time and monitor everything when we start boondocking this weekend.
@@geraldhenrickson7472 The idea is to not have to make a change in lifestyle. Tiffin's motto: roughing it comfortably.
The bloopers always keep me laughing.😂👍
Thankfully they make us laugh too! :)
Hey guys, We're spending too much $$ with Dragonfly Energy this year! Now that our FT Coach is done. we're building a 2019 Camper Van too. Just took a spin up to Reno 2 days ago, toured the office and assembly, picked up New Batteries, Victron Inverter Charger, Solar Charger and more...We just need to pick up some Panels, wire etc. and we're on the way! We're also adding a cool B2B device which sets the lithium charging profiles from our 220Amp Alternator, should be sweet!
Wow!! You must love a remodel challenge! Enjoy those Battle Born Batteries. We are loving ours.
You, Me & the RV i think it’s a Retirement problem...lol It’s been fun building it so far. The best part is we get to build with quality stuff right now, instead of retrofitting a factory made Class b
@@oursomedayisnow3915 Its a good problem to have!
I have battery envy.
They are sweet!!
Great job explaining things!!!
Thank you!
All I can think about is the Bee Gees Staying Alive you guys are great
LOL.
goodjob guys
I googled Battle born web page...These batteries are 900.00 dollars a peice...If you got the money, its well worth it...
Were looking at getting BB,s right at the beginning. Sure wish it was an upgrade from factory. Not sure i want the dealer doing it. i sure hope i can find someone as good as your friend or some others i've seen on YT.
You can't go wrong with BB. Here is a link if you want to research some more: battlebornbatteries.com?afmc=2e
oh boy oh boy oh boy.....I got all the way through the video and you did mention price..... ehehehehhehhe there's nothing for me to buy and it's a good thing since I just put sealed batteries in my bus 4 months ago. However, if we do buy another on I hope they offer these batteries. Thanks Great job..
Tommy......we didn't mention price because the price point for someone else may be different based on how their RV is setup, equipment already onboard, and lifestyle. Our set up is about $9k. It is pricey up front, but it will pay for itself soon and for our lifestyle it's perfect. It would be nice if they came standard in newer RV's!
love this segment, as a couple who are buying and going full time RV'ing, this will help. One question, how long does it take to charge via you solar panels or if you charge from your generator? Blessings
we have thought about boondocking but I cant justify the cost, great video
We did save for a long time. The cost in the long term are well worth. Hopefully the price of these start to come down as more companies enter the arena.
Nice job Big Boy!! Now put those Trojan batteries in your back pack and let's see some squats!!
Hahahaaha
Great video mates 👍👍👍 Cheers 👍👍👍
Great Video!!! Thanks for sharing. You all crack me up!! Safe Travels
Thanks :)