Someone once said that women make horrible decisions on the basis of "love" and I think Miranda is an example of that. "I believe this is love, therefore I will suffer through it. In fact, the more I suffer, the stronger the love must be."
This is brainwashing. Girls are brainwashed into that idea since early childhood. Because it is convenient fo the society to convince women they should sacrifice anything to a be an unpaid servant of a man and reproduce with him and raise new generation of exploitable workforce
Wow. I really had to hear this. I am trying to get over a toxic person, who I thought loves me even when no one does and turned out he just betrayed me and lied to my face several times. Is hard, when that person is the only one you have.
I'm VERY here for the Steve slander. He was such an Adam Sandler Shlubcore sadboy. This era was all about barely functional manboys failing upward and making way better women settle for them.
@@peachesandpoets Ayy i was so dumbfounded when she said this bc all of her songs definitely do bit support broke, unemployed and no perspective having man....??? So how is Miranda the worst character by wating him to do better?
I gotta ask when did Magda come around - before or after her mom died? Because I can see this being true with Magda becoming a maternal figure to her and after so many bad dates, maybe Miranda didn’t trust herself to pick a good one. Also it’s just natural for people to react strongly when their parents like or dislike your new partner. That can be confirmation or it can be a source of tension or maybe even make her question her own judgment.
The relationship between Miranda and Steve was, ultimately, joyless. It frustrated me to no end that she did not end up with Dr. Robert Leeds, with whom Miranda seemed so much happier and more compatible. Eigenberg has pointed out that Steve started out reading poetry and then they dumbed him down more and more. A shame for both characters.
There’s an episode (The Real Me) that purposefully juxtaposes Miranda and Samantha, where Miranda tries to exude confidence like Samantha, and she’s punished for it. The guy at the gym thinks she’s cute, she invites him over and tries to employ a Samantha way of confidently describing herself. The guy tells her later he thought she was too full of herself. The difference is that criticism alters Miranda’s future behavior, whereas Samantha would have shrugged it off.
Samantha is punished as well. She is "slutshamed" at the PR firm, constantly disrespected by the men she is seeing, (e.g. pressured to do certain things like the guy who kept insisting she swallow and talks to her in a rather crude manner about it and refuses to eat healthier so it has a better taste, or the way the "big shot" guy treated her) even in the movie where they're in Abu dabi she is shamed by the crowd when everything falls out of her bag. There is a difference in how she handles it but she is definitely shamed, and even in how they write the show as though her only options are to be empowered and alone, or limited by a man, I would say is very much punishing the character.
@@mightytaiger3000 oh yeah, Samantha is absolutely punished throughout the show and by the writers, albeit in a different way (and they’ve continued to punish her in the new series). I’m just highlighting this episode because in the podcast they discuss at length the juxtaposition of Samantha and Miranda, but they didn’t mention that the show did make a purposeful choice in this particular episode to highlight that juxtaposition and showcase the differences between the two characters.
I think Miranda is a cautionary tale of what happens when you're a woman who has a high powered financial life, career but low self worth/esteem and therefore lets loser men guilt her into making decisions against her bst interest. I think the writers actually showed a very realistic and relatable character arc. Many women I know have ended up in this trap (including myself) and it's fitting Miranda did as well. Even getting back together with Steve after Brady was born - she wanted to make it work with the father of her child, which is not uncommon. It's a fantasy many women have. Its also hinted at that Miranda doesnt have a necessaeily close relationship with her family of origin so perhaps that was a factor. I think Miranda was unhappy with her life in a lot of ways, which is why her attitude was always so cynical and judgmental (in earlier seasons). While I have qualms with the followup series, Miranda divorcing Steve makes tons of sense.
@@Tityretupatulae Women have the fantasy of an equal partner, who make having a career and family at the same time achievable. Steve was the reality - a lazy manchild who pushed all the childcare/eldercare and housework onto her instead of participating equally. You sound really offended, but hit dogs will holler, I guess.
I had a weird age gap relationship in my early 20's that lasted way too long. I could never articulate the way I was made to feel when I wanted to leave the relationship. They were sooo nice yet incredibly suffocating and always doing things for me I didn't ask for. So when I would try to leave I was made to feel bad because how could I leave someone that does everything for me? My self esteem was low and the little guilt trips were enough to keep me around. The whole guilting people into making decisions against there best interest is exactly what I was up against, but could never articulate what it was. Thank you!
@Makaylaaooo girl I have had many age gap relationships. I realized way too late it was a trap and despite how much life I had lived and how mature I though I was, I was naive.
When I was buying my house by myself people looked at me like I have 3 heads? All by yourself? Such a big house just for yourself? Fuck yea I said. I was reminded of when Miranda bought her place. I didn’t have kids, I never met a man I wanted to marry. Why should I wait for those things? Now I’m my 40s I know I made the right choices. Still no husband, no kids, and I still love my home.
@@alejandramoreno6625 I’m in America and yeah that happened with every single house I looked at. I said finally that it’s always gonna be only me because I don’t want to get married or have kids.
I got the same kind of nonsense when I was buying a house as a single woman in the 90s. A lot of women telling me men would be to intimidated by a woman who owned her own house. I was getting my masters in electrical engineering. If guys were going to be intimidated, it was already too late.
@@lisapt6702 yeah I always hear about men being intimidated and it’s just not my problem. Why should women hold themselves back so that the fragile male ego can be protected? Was I supposed to not be successful and hope and pray that someday a man would give me what I want and need? I’m glad I made the choices I made even thought I’m in my mid 40s and I’m single. I’d hate to not be myself just to be in a relationship.
It happens to single men, too. My husband (before he met me) faced a similar reaction when he bought a house as a bachelor. Our neighbor, a single bachelor, also introduces himself and immediately explains how and why he bought a suburban family house even though he's single without kids. He feels the need to explain even before he's asked.
Not only it was Steve like a terrible partner. But Miranda had low self-esteem, she had some very attractive and economically stable men that wanted something serious with her, but she sabotage every single one of those.
@@alejandramoreno6625 My God, you are so naive to think that finding an economically stable man is not important. There is power in a well-rounded couple. It's not only a romantic relationship, it is everything.
In my opinion, the fundamental difference between Samantha and Miranda is that Miranda is always playing by other's rules. Samantha runs her own company, she had a boss mindset. Meanwhile Miranda is also wealthy, but, playing a rule in a company ran by a boss, with a team compound by men. This kind of situation, when you have the money but dont make the rules, that's one of the issues, that buids Miranda's character.
I always felt Miranda was done extremely dirty. She was always the one getting punished for things like being ambitious in her career, having a baby, having casual sex....things that the other women had that somehow turned out great for them.
From the first time I watched the show as a teen, I never understand why Miranda (or anyone) liked Steve. I found him ugly, and he was a whiny, immature, insecure loser who essentially acted as a parasite and deliberately manipulated Miranda by always playing the victim and preying on her insecurities about being too masculine. And I agree his voice is annoying af. There’s literally nothing good about him, and Miranda was clearly only with him out of fear of being alone.
Miranda was a successful woman who had to be humbled and dull herself. The fact that the TV show was created by men shined through, even though it was about women for women. As a girl, I wanted to be Miranda and how they diminished her as the show progressed. I loved her personality, plus the balance of confidence and self-doubt. In the end, they got her stuck with a man-child, why?
Because some of those men were projecting their wishes onto women. "Not everyone can have that awesome 6'3" successful hunk, he wants a model anyway, other guys deserve a chance". Basically gaslighting women into not being so picky and settling for okay men, because hey, you gotta have a family at SOME point and there's worse guys out there!
So in a simplified nutshell , Miranda was punished for being career minded by “winning “ man shaped damp rag Steve and being dominated , Sam was punished with cancer for being sexually free and uncaring of men’s feelings , Carrie was rewarded with wealth and a ring for hanging in there with Big through all the stupidity and being a side piece and Charlotte was rewarded with a marriage to a nice man after kissing some frogs ,for doggedly pursuing a traditional marriage and babies since she was 15 years old.
not only men but specifically darren star and patrick king, both ga y. I didn't watch the show until I was in my mid 20s and I was completely repulsed by the way the men that all of them were dating talked to them, particularly in the s x scenes. But also at that moment understood why my peers accepted the kind of things that they do from men, why they viewed s x in the way that they did (like g ay men) and why they expected other women to put up with immature outbursts, passive aggressive comments and an undertone of competition with each other, in the name of "female friendship. And why overall I could never see eye to eye with my contemporaries who had been brainwashed by that show all through their adolescence.
Ladies let this be a reminder that we need to invest in our self esteem, that is the only think that will allow us to walk away from where we are not respected & celebrated . She had it all, but she didn't know it. I still love her 💕
Didn't Carrie give her c rap twice for walking away from Steve? once during the show, telling her she never accepts "flaws" in people, and then in the movie, when she tells her during Valentine's day that she is "crazy" for separating from steve after he sl ept with someone else.. yet Carrie would have had a mental breakdown if Big had done the same thing to her.
I was so against Steve and Miranda, it was incredibly frustrating to watch. I'm a career woman and I DATED a Steve at one point. Every frustration she had, I felt with her lol. You can have it all, as long as there isn't a man child in the picture. I always felt so bad for her, especially the one episode where she's going to make dinner and in a chaotic string of events, the marinara sauce falls out and breaks all over the floor. She mistakes exhaustion for needing a man and it kills me every time I watch the series.
exactly. That whole monologue after she dropped the sauce felt so forced. she never really liked steve that much. point blank. she even comments to carrie at one point earlier in that episode "I'm never gonna be a girly girl! A girly girl would want her boyfriend to move in!" Like??? no?? hate the idea that just because a woman has a more masculine persona she's also closed down emotionally, particularly towards men. Miranda was just using that as an explanation for her general lack of enthusiasm about Steve in general. I actually liked her arc in ajlt because it shows her reckoning with her true wants and desires after DECADES of ignoring them in a very real, painful, destructive way.
The show did Robert so wrong, and the way they wrote him off (where suddenly he's a playa with an International House of P-----) was frankly incredibly racist and lazy. I assumed Robert wouldn't last (Blair Underwood is so beautiful that he's often cast as the Perfect Guy who makes the heroine realize she should be with the schlub; see also Something New with Sanaa Lathan) but *how* they did it still makes my blood boil.
Smith eventually saying "come to the playground to watch me shoot basketballs" is kinda what happened in the first movie. Samantha did her job as his manager/agent SO WELL that her life/career became all about Smith. The line in the movie "I love Smith, but does that mean that I should say his name 50 times more a day than I say my own?" was pretty groundbreaking at the time.
I am going to be upset by this one. Miranda got the shortest end of the stick out of all the sac girls. Steve was real piece of work. I believe the term used nowadays is hobosexual. He forced Miranda to let him move in, Coerced her into having a baby, and never even tried to help with the home or bring home the bacon...
@@jessicaholmes4246and? Owning a bar/restaurant in nyc isn’t profitable until you get through the first 5+ years. Most fail before then. Then factor that he didn’t own it independently. In the show Miranda was the one who made money for the family and bought their home/ paid for their nanny.
Dude, the "double standard" of the suit issue is the whole point! They're showing that wealthy women are going to be punished for their success and can't "buy" the guy's attention/committment the way that wealthy successful men can. In the early 90s, that's what counted as "creative" storytelling on women's issues.
Women do not lack integrity for wanting stability in their lives. A baby's survival depend on the stability of its life, the stability of the mother's, and the stress in their mother's world. A man's "bloodline" literally DEPENDS on his woman being well taken care of 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ caring about stability and provision is different from being materialistic, and a woman who wants you to ha e a job, a good job, a solid career, and a drive to do right by your family and bloodline is also just doing right by her babies, making sure they have everything to make it in this world, mentally, physically, and healthwise. Gtfo here, mr. I will never birth a baby and physically suffer from the consquences 🙄
The suit issue was one of the weirdest things in the entire show. Like….. why wouldn’t an Irish catholic from queens have a suit? Not a designer suit, not a bespoke suit…. A regular suit from Macy’s or something. It doesn’t make sense. And then….. okay he didn’t have a suit. Couldn’t Miranda…. TAKE HIM TO MACY’s OR SOMETHING? Lmfao. They have 2 for one suit deals. The. Some somewhat nicer suits. She’s taking a dude with ZERO suit to Zegna or wherever the fk….. For an 1800$ suit? She couldn’t take him to get 2 for 300? Or a 500 dollar perfectly beautiful lovely affordable suit? She could have bought him a fancy tie or a beautiful set of cuff links to “Snaz” it up. It was such a weird storyline. It’s NYC! There are little independent Italian tailors selling super slcheap suits they’ll tailor to you EVERYWHERE LMFAO. There are huge department stores with credit card points and sales EVERYWHERE. Like it makes no sense for Steve not to have had even one crappy men’s wearhouse suit for weddings and funerals. No sense. But okay if he didn’t have one at the time why not just TAKE HIM THERE????
She was the most relatable character for me when I watched and still watch the show. Not so much the pessimistic attitude, but trying to date as a modern woman. It's hard to find a partner when you are financially stable and independent. I've also had to relinquish a lot of my girl boss mentality to try to date men that wanted me to believe that what they had to offer was better than what I can just do for myself. I've been single for a long time because I'm honestly tired of "dating down". I'm not trying to be harsh, it's just the reality of what a woman might experience if she truly doesn't need a man, but likes to have a partner (and isn't gay).
But why would you date down? If you’re successful, your dating pool needs to be only men richer and more successful than you. It’s not like you have to settle for a schlubs bc you’re broke and desperate.
@@nataliaalfonso2662 it's not realized that it's below my status until a bit of time is passed. Meaning, they look well off and successful, but in truth their lifestyle just doesn't match mine. You don't see it the first date usually right? Now, I just don't date online anymore. That was always the catalyst of guys that claimed to be the prize with nothing to offer me more than I can give myself.
I can relate to that... Women with more education and income than the man are too challenging for his ego. This inevitalbly leads to problems in a long term relationship. Most educated, rich and attractive guys tend to target young women with moderate state of education, so they could feel as providers and protectors. Otherwise around the men lose their manhood, and women may get fed up of taking all decisions, financial responsibility and also miss feeling as a woman and not as a machine. This is my imperssion by being in such a relationship and reaching a dead end street
@@nataliaalfonso2662 did this comment come across as desperate? I said I'm single for a long time. If I get asked out, it's usually by man that has less. Please mind what you type before you do. That was rude.
I feel like Charlotte is underrated because she actually has the most personal growth throughout the show. She's not as career driven, but the way she gets all she wanted then it's a terrible marriage and she gets divorced and so many things go differently from her ideals at the start of the show. Also not to get into Just Like That, but she is probably the least selfish and happiest character.
I do think it's interesting that Charlotte is the one that gets what she wants by the end of the series. Maybe it's because she had a set goal and aggressively went for it, whereas the others were more casual with their dating.
@@hpr2008 Yes agree! Charlotte was the most driven in her overall life direction. I think you make a good point! It's easy in the show and that era to only see the career aspect as 'driven' but actually, finding your person and having a family whilst creating meaningful friendships and building a career in the arts is a big achievement! Even considering having close friends that don't align with your values and goals.
I absolutely agree! She learned some life lessons the hard way and became a better person overall because of it. She ditched her unrealistics ideals for companionship and landed with someone outside of her "type" who genuinely made her happy and was willing to give her everything she wanted. And I feel like she and Samantha were more complementary to each other in this way. Because while they both wanted different things relationship and career-wise, they were very goal oriented and headstrong in their beliefs. Compared to Miranda and Carrie, Charlotte and Samantha came out on top and were far less tragic!
she is also the one that had the most conservative values, even if at times her outlook borderlines on childish.. just sayin'... and in turn, she is the one whose aspirations and problems are dismissed the most by "the girls"...just sayin'
@@ecrawl4902 exactly this, I think the key with both of them if they were optimistic and driven and eventually became flexible to reach their goals! Miranda and Carrie have some career aspirations but not clear on what they wanted from relationships, children etc.
a friend taught me the phrase "not my circus, not my monkeys" and that's the only way I've been able to deal with friends that have, by my standards, risky financial attitudes. I just remind myself of that, give my savings at extra strong hug, and let it go.
The older I get (I'm 28 now) the more I don't vibe with Miranda. She frequently is just frankly too rude & harsh on people, when I think I initially perceived it as being a good "girl boss" and rightfully assertive. She is also famously extremely insecure on the inside. Team Samantha & Charlotte alllll the way. However, the older I get, the more Steve is also a horror-story boyfriend/husband rather than a cute golden retriever guy
She is insecure and that’s why she lashes out, it’s not an excuse but she like a lot of girls were told to not focus on anything but school. Once they reached what they were told was success they realized it wasn’t everything. She 100% is a product of that
Weird, I think Charlotte in the original series was just mean a lot of times lol (also being a proud wasp is.....not it these days). It also showed in the dynamics of the group that the other women preferred to confide in Sam or Miranda before letting Charlotte in the loop
@@MsKateC2K That's fair. My praise of Charlotte is mostly that she's someone with a very healthy sense of self esteem. She definitely knows her worth and acts accordingly, which I think is a good role model for women!
@@SamanthaC-ij3wb that's true, I think we all need a bit of Charlotte in us, and Miranda could have benefited from that for sure. I also do admire her sense of optimism
Someone finally pointing out that a big firm lawyer this successful does NOT have time to hang out with her friends this much 😅 out for breakfast w the girls on a weekday are you joking
I thought their breakfasts were literally always a Saturday or Sunday thing? Usually Sunday bc they’re telling each other about their Fridays and Saturdays
I am currently rewatching the series for like the 3rd time...Miranda is extremely insecure!!! I never realized how bad until this go round. The LA trip, her dating the hot detective...essentially aside from Skipper and Steve she never felt good enough for a guy.
I’m no Carrie Bradshaw apologist, but when Miranda called Carrie saying she threw out her back, Carrie told her she had to work meeting to go to. Miranda said basically “get over here now” and hung up in Carrie’s face. So Carrie asked Aidan to go check on her while she went to her work meeting. Then, Miranda went to take a shower and by the time Aidan arrived, she was naked on the bathroom floor. It’s not like Miranda called Carrie and told her she was stuck on the bathroom floor and Carrie just sent Aidan out of laziness/lack of care. Now her standing Miranda up because Big bought some meat at the last minute?? Heinous.
Agreed. People are so often so confused about Carrie. Like why tf would Miranda ever think she’s entitled to Carrie’s workday mornings? Like huh? Woukd Miranda EVER have done the same for anyone else? Drop her job and go help a friend with a neck ache? Absolutely not.
I personally don’t agree with this take. Yes carrie had a prior commitment but her best friend had a health scare and needed real help, and carrie spent most of her work day doing nothing ( nothing substantial) so im sure she could of rescheduled her meeting no problem by calling in a family emergency, cuz their friendship was family to them. The following scene with the “bs bagels” i think highlights that dynamic between them were carrie only ever thinks about herself- miranda was in a neck brace and in pain struggling and carrie proceeds to make jokes and not even really ask her about her pain and condition but is ready and desperate to talk about her bf problems …
@@Jerel_con_jota actually I think because we do not have a vocabulary for it, mistaken it to be love, although he is just parasite and always nagging, I hate every moment of him in screen as a character
This is really interesting! You said that Miranda had to change her entire personality in a show that preaches the importance and power of a unique character, but then I feel like the line between 'growth' and that sinking of one's entire person is quite blurry. Charlotte, too, would have never imagined herself with someone like Garry, and with him, she has to unlearn things, primarily the idea of Picture Perfect Love. I feel like with Steve, Miranda, too, unlearned some harmful notions, like, for example, girlbossing her way through life, defending herself against one of her fears, real intimacy with men. I always thought that was a thing with her. Now, obviously, if you don't want to have kids, there is nothing to unlearn about that, nothing wrong you need to fix; but was it really Not Wanting kids in her case, or just being scared to even entertain the idea of that, her past experience with men being quite bumpy, as she would be continuously perceived as too harsh, or too masculine, or sometimes even not conventionally attractive. :( (though she is beautiful!)
I love y’all’s deep, frustrated long suffering sighs throughout this. I see SATC very differently at when I watched at 20 and under, late 20’s/early 30’s and then the last time I watched at closer to 40. It was seen as empowering when it was new but now there are so many things that make me want to take 3 of the 4 and shake them. The obsession with finding “the one” is grating. I remember when it first aired and Miranda was seen as the dry, hostile feminists. Not just portrayed in her attitude and interaction with men and others but the clothing choices and hairstyle. She was deeply insecure about her femininity so it seems to drive her aggressive defense of anything about her that wasn’t “traditional”. By having Steve love her it was more in spite of who she was instead of because of who she was. And by marrying “good” guy Steve, having a child, quitting her high powered lawyer job in the first movie was supposed to be her redemption arc. I’m not say any of that was a good thing but I do hate how she was presented and the road the character was taken on.
I think Miranda was ultimately less embodied than Samantha because she wasn't nearly as sure of what she wanted -- she was also younger than Samantha. Your 30s and your early 40s are very different life stages! Her relationship with Steve kept her in a constant state of uncertainty and internal conflict. Did she want the high-powered job? Did she want the man and the family? Could she have both, maybe? She talked tough, but she didn't really know, and compensated with bluster that just barely masked her anxiety. And I do think the arc is incomplete without And Just Like That because then you can see that comphet was also scrambling Miranda's ability to understand what she wanted out of life. (Which I actually think is somewhat inconsistent with her character through most of the series, but casts her arc over the course of the entire SATC universe in a very different light. Steve didn't gaslight her, she gaslit herself into thinking the Brooklyn mom life was for her.)
The huge character arc in And Just Like That also makes her decision to sabotage the relationship with Robert for Steve super interesting! She was finally with someone who was a better match for her; she still didn't settle in. It didn't feel right for her. The joyless relationship with Steve was at least familiar -- instead of having to really interrogate why she couldn't just relax into the relationship with Robert, and find some answers she wasn't ready for (which is that Miranda is not straight), she could bounce her unhappiness in a straight relationship back onto Steve. With Robert, her dysphoria and comphet were impossible to ignore and it was terrifying. So... truly, any analysis of Miranda without And Just Like That is incomplete. (Also -- it's worth watching for Charlotte's transformation. And to understand how miserable Miranda must have been playing straight that Che Diaz was so irresistible to her.)
Remember that it is a show written by men and that Miranda’s character / entire life / internal thought trajectory was “mansplained.“ In real life, a woman as smart and independent as her character was, would have seen most of the curveballs and tried to avoid them. In reality, many single, child free, successful women do not pine for less than average men and could easily choose to be single/keep their savings and sanity, intact. They made her life more difficult because this is their (and perhaps society’s) impression of a woman In her position.
@@MRC5981 Eh, the show was definitely created by a man, but I think it's a mistake (and more than a little sexist) to willfully ignore that women writers, producers and the lead actresses themselves had a hand in the direction of the show, the development of the characters, etc. SJP became deeply involved as the series progressed. AJLT provides a new lens through which to view Miranda's SATC trajectory (that actually mirrors Cynthia Nixon's, as a matter of fact) and important one to consider: Miranda is not straight. Miranda is queer, and didn't realize it until much later in life. A lot of her more frustrating moments (especially sabotaging relationships, picking dopey male partners and setting herself up for a relationship of disappointment) make a new kind of sense in that light.
A lot a very good points and interesting discussions. My only remark is regarding their financial situation. As a long time single woman who lives on her own, saving and balancing a budget is very hard when your a single income, with barely or completely no parental or familial support of any kind 😅. You sound like you both have partner and family around. These are privileges a LOT of people don’t have. And a lot of single income households barely have any savings or retirement plans. And it was already the case in the late 90s early 00s! So Carrie having only 700$ to her name in her late 30s is not just her not being financially responsible, it’s just extremely hard when you are the only one baring 100% of ALL expenses: rent, groceries, emergencies.. eating out is cheaper at 2 and more, so is ordering food in, driving, family plan, subscriptions, insurance, etc… it’s something that’s barely covered in discussions about SATC. Having a partner/spouse and/or a supportive family aren’t a default situation for a lot of people, especially in big cities. 😅
And Steve had a lower wage job. I don't get the hate. Everyone deserves to navigate love. They taught each other a lot as tge series went on, and even in the first movie
Although Carrie's financial irresponsibility was pretty well written into the show. I know we're also living in the magic realism but there was much in the show prior to that episode to show that she was focused on carefully spending her money because she had to pay rent in her bills
I've lived as a single woman since I was 19 in 2001. Never had an issue with saving money or setting up retirement. Bought my first house at 24 and have supported myself with no family help.
I’m a single woman supporting myself on my own, and although it’s not always easy, I’m able to take care of myself and I don’t have a high paying job. If you’re serious about paying bills and getting on your feet, you have to be serious about what you’re spending on your money on. Sometimes you won’t be able to go out in the night life or constantly going out to eat. It’s not easy, but it’s doable.
@@WhenSaraiSpeaksUListen Hmmm. I wonder if you have kids? Or, if you own a home? Put yourself through school? Have a great career? Sometimes the sacrifices made by single women are much greater than supporting basic necessities like food and shelter. They may want kids; or to start a business; or something else that requires a significant cash outlay to properly achieve. It’s so much easier with support; but, as stated in the first post, a partner and family connections are not guaranteed. I suppose that if you want to live a small life without dreams of anything grander… All is possible.
I always felt i was more like Miranda. With a hint of Charlotte. I was always working and worrying about life so someone like Steve did appeal to me (when i 1st watched the show in my 20s) i also found the actor attractive. Now, at 42 and a single mother *because a guy like Steve but worse, is now my baby daddy, and i was 32 at the time, (luckily we parted ways years ago and he is NOT in our lives) now, i realize how BAD Steve was for Miranda.
I'm quite something in the city, dealing in top end real estate. My career and my ex boyfriends kids (who I now have custody of) take priority over being held down by any man. Coming from a family of powerful boss babe energy, I can personally attest to the fact that most men are a hindrance to my lifestyle. Taking them out of the picture allows me to focus on my kids, and more importantly, myself.
I recently watched sex and the city for the first time in my 30s, as a married woman with 2 kids I found the show refreshing in portraying actual relationship dynamics work rather than a PC version of them. It is VERY difficult if not impossible to have it all, and this idea is hoisted on women not men. SATC was made during a changing landscape and very informed by it. Miranda very realistically portrayed how relationships work when you’re a girl boss, Samantha got rewarded but Samantha also ‘thought like a man’ - another thing being praised and rewarded during that time.The woman refused to even hold hands with her superstar heart throb supportive loving boyfriend
I love these TFD discussions so much, but I do wonder if there’s a limit to what extent we can evaluate SATC and it’s messages in a modern or “girl boss” context. I remember 90s culture being highly critical of women, especially “career” women who had the nerve to also want a fulfilling partnership. That’s how I see SATC personally. It’s not strange to me at all that Miranda ended up the way she did, or that Carrie ended up with Big. I see it as a subliminal message “this is what you get” that was pervasive in the NYC cultural conversation of that era.
What I’m not seeing in these comments is - Steve’s dementia mom! Can we talk about how much stress that added to Miranda’s life? Like he did not think for a single second how that would affect her. And also why you cannot get attached to a guy like this - he sometimes comes with family and aging family and that’s a whole bag of issues. Many men expect their wives to be caretakers for their aging parents cus they don’t want to do that work.
Maybe it's a hot take, but I don't think it was that bad that Carrie sent Aidan in the bathroom incident... How would she carry her? Lol Also, when Miranda called for help she didn't let Carrie tell her that she was on her way to a meeting
It’s not that it was wrong for Carrie to send Aidan (who was able to help an injured Miranda), but that she didn’t tell Miranda first who was hurt and justifiably embarrassed that her friend’s boyfriend saw her nude.
I think she shoots herself in the foot by already deciding what people see of her and how they perceive her and then then she ends up, projecting it outwards, and it shoots her in the foot. I get it. The show was trying to make a point about a high-powered job being intimidating, but Samantha’s got just as high-power a job if you really think about it and she isn’t projecting out that she’s not good enough to match with somebody because she has too much power… I don’t think it was so much about dating outside of your social class as your socially emotional class … because with the right person with the right emotional intelligence, it wouldn’t matter what the income bracket is
Yes agreed. Money is easy, emotions are hard. And some people with lots of money still have no emotional awareness. That’s why dating/marrying a rich guy can still be a nightmare.
As a woman approaching 50, I watched the show when it aired, loved it, bought it on dvd and have watched it 100 times…a few things jump out now looking back at it; I think the women are portrayed through a gay male perception of who women are and how they think. It is patriarchal and limiting. The show is still great and the new series is great also though it took me a while to decide to watch it. I think you have to be a middle-aged woman who had experienced some of the lifestyles of the women to be able to identify with the growth of the characters. I’m actually glad they’re doing the show now because it allows them to correct some of the oversimplification of the characters the first time around and show more realistic life disappointments and challenges. And new friendships among mature women.
Charlotte had every right to call Carrie out for the affair. There is a difference between life choices and doing something a moral. Also Charlotte was dealing with fertility issues and literally just got her period so to see her friend get pregnant and then not keep the baby would be incredibly difficult. All she did was leave because she couldn't listen to the conversation. She didn't tell Miranda she was a horrible person or something.
And a sexually confused, innately insecure woman. They took the spine out of her. How was she so staunchly straight only to become a lesbian? Makes no sense because she always had strong convictions .
Oh gosh, you have nailed it! It;s mental how dumb her character has become- so totally lost and clueless. Sadly like most of them at that point. Silly barbies. I also don't appreciate tokenizing using each minority and overcompensating for not having any representation in the original series. Women are way smarter than in the AJLT...it's offensive to all characters, old and new sadly. While I can sort of understand what happened in the original series as it was still a freshly new ground for the writers the new series is just bizarre, bizarre and sad. Cluelesss characters make for sad show :(
I think the show did many of these story lines intentionally not to say that is was ok for that to be the situation but to say this is what is happening it is in fact not ok. Referring for example to the buying real estate thing. And other such situations from 20 years ago.
Yes. Their critiques are way off. Watched the show as it came out. Couldn't buy a house on my own or get business loans because of prejudice. That was exactly the point at the time....the double standards, the prejudice.
I watched SATC during my teen years and thought the characters and their lives were sooooo aspirational. Now, I am a woman who is roughly the same age as the characters in the show. I am married with children and I am a therapist…gotta tell you, no. I love that the characters aren’t perfect and reflect real human flaws, but their relationships and choices were a mess. Fertile ground for therapy and I enjoyed analyzing from my couch. I just feel much differently watching 20 years later.
I agree with you guys in a lot of what you said. Miranda had the worst arc in the show. It doesn't make any sense you let someone so perfect like Robert go. The only couple that should be end game was Miranda and Robert. They were equal in many ways. I don't even like Smith because he couldn't suport himself.
watching the re-runs of satc when i was a teenager (i turn 29 next month), i didn't like miranda much... i was always obsessed with samantha- who was the reason i was so interested in working in PR and marketing tbh, until i realised i hated it at uni in 2015, lol. but then again, i've probably turned into miranda, attitude wise, even though i'm not a high-powered lawyer. teen me liked steve, but if i was to ever rewatch it, i'd probably not like steve now lol.
Being successful at your career does not automatically guarantee that person also has a high emotional Intelligence. There are a lot of Miranda's out there.
Your critique in the beginning at the show producers about the double standards when it comes to male/female partners paying for their partners in the context of a suit incident - I think it's misguided. It would be more unrealistic if they created a storyline where a woman like Miranda never came across that type of a situation. Men feeling emasculated by a woman earning more (or being more educated) is still a thing to this day, they still put those women down to make themselves feel better. So they got it right, imo. Now, why on earth did they make her go back to him after that incident is beyond me.
I watched SATC in real time and I've always known myself to be a Miranda. Ultimately, Miranda's portrayal as a "working woman" in a traditional men's world is pretty realistic. It's very difficult for a highly intelligent, driven, career woman to meet a man on her level. We're not feminine enough for the "Alpha" and so we almost by default, settle on some "hobosexual" like Steve. I now see the contrast between Samantha & Smith's relationship and Miranda & Steve's in a new light now and may have to re-watch the whole series. Again! 🤣🤣 Thank you very much for this conversation TFD! I really appreciated your compassionate discussion on Miranda & all the characters of SATC.
I must say that I can relate to Miranda to a certain point when it comes to Steve, as I had made bad relationship choices myself, despite being an „independent & successful“ woman. Some people can have high self-esteem when it comes to their own capabilities, but low self-esteem when it comes to love & relationships. Luckily, I got rid of my „Steve“ long ago & did some self-reflection.
Whenever I watch the episodes of her not ending up with Dr Robert, Detective Stevens or Walker Lewis, I just cry on the inside. It's as if they wanted her to struggle.
Steve kept his puppy. Steve also had parenting time with Brady after he stopped breastfeeding. He also offered to sell his half of the bar to be financially supportive, but Miranda declined, and said she wanted to do this on her own. There were times when he showed up wanting to see Brady and she sent him away, which could have made him more comfy caring for Brady while Miranda was in Atlantic City, but he wasn't afforded that chance. There are issues with Steve, especially around the puppy and the basketball episodes, but you're clearly skewing the issues out of his favor. Miranda was selfish and impractical in many ways.
I hope this is seen. As far as r/regretfulparents goes, I will openly admit that I may well not have become a parent if I had waited until I was old enough to think things through to become one. However, parenting is what you make it. The women on that subreddit are often impoverished, with no family or friends or partner support. Miranda is none of that.
Honestly, Miranda’s decisions would be so bad if Steve wasn’t such a flake. It would be worth it if Steve at least had character to balance out Miranda’s self perfectionism and insecurities.
Agreed, like okay if she’s the money, then it could be fine to date someone who earned less but was devoted to her, capable of running the home and being a good father and counsel to Miranda. It’s not all about money. The problem is that he was an actual child, in every sense. He didn’t want a child to father and parent, he wanted a toy baby to play with cus he got bored. And can we talk about the bs Miranda went through when Steve brought his dementia mother into her life??
I want to preface this comment by saying i LOVE TFD, but i hate this take. Y'all are acting like Miranda was such a prize because she was a successful lawyer. She was extremely rude, stubborn, very controlling, especially with Steve, cynical, and narrow minded. Her personality was awful. Steve was by no means perfect, but he was sweet and he loved Miranda and would drink her bathwater if she let him. Steve was not the bum you are making him out to be. He was a bartender, which some bartenders make 6 figures which is not a far stretch in a place like Manhattan. He later on bought a bar with Aidan, which he still owns in And Just Like That (because Brady works there sometimes). He also bought another business in AJLT on Coney Island. To say she settled for Steve is insane. Steve had Jessica and she had Dr. Leeds and they were doing a great job co-parenting. Both had partners who adored their child. Miranda did not act like herself when she was with wealthy successful men like Dr. Leeds or that rude lawyer who gave her the claps. She literally was wiping excess beer off his mug so he wouldn't curse the server out. She was herself with Steve because he gave her that safe space to be her. Let's talk about Brooklyn. Miranda's apartment was tiny and they literally moved the bed to the living room. In Brooklyn, they had a huge home, which is now worth a fortune. Steve did the renovation work himself with his own hands. Miranda controlled every single aspect of their relationship. She asked Steve to marry her, she picked the venue, decided it would be small and intimate, every detail was determined by her because she is a control freak. The comparison of Smith (who is my favorite) to Steve is also crazy too because they literally both had the same type of job. If Samantha hadn't used her connections to skyrocket Smith's career he would have likely not became a star thus he would still be way under her tax bracket like he was when she gave him $300 for a night with her after she got him fired. Both men actually were good guys that cared about their partners and both women were resistant to being loved and cared for. Now Steve was dead wrong for cheating, BUT intimacy is vital in a marriage. If she is only being intimate once every few months she could at least be into it. Saying can we just get this over with is extremely unfair. If you guys are going to refer to the movie, tell the whole story, not just your "Girl Boss" narrative. These were all flawed characters, but Miranda had a terrible personality and that needs to be acknowledged.
@@WeNeedToWorry Your take on Steve’s infidelity is WILD. Miranda, and any woman for that matter, is not required to force herself to be “into it” for the sake of her husband’s feelings. Instead of being honest with Miranda about his feelings, Steve was weak and made a terrible decision by having an affair. Also, Miranda’s personality is off-putting to YOU. You saw Miranda’s personality as something that needs to be fixed but some of us appreciated her candor for it was because she is relatable. There are a lot of successful women working in male dominated fields who completely understand where her personality comes from and they don’t need a man to come into their lives to try and knock them down a peg - which is what Steve constantly tried to do. Steve would make Miranda stay in bed longer in the mornings even though she loved her morning routine and wanted to be at work on time. Steve made Miranda take care of a dog that she never wanted. Steve stood Miranda up because he didn’t want to keep the expensive suit, but he could have still worn the corduroy one! Smith never tried to change who Samantha was fundamentally. He only wanted to be an addition to her already fulfilling life. But Miranda’s story was written in a way that she couldn’t possibly be fulfilled by just her career and friends - she needed a man to humble her and become a mother so she could “learn a lesson” and fundamentally change herself. And I’m glad TFD called BS on that.
Miranda knew she let the sex go away in her marriage. She played a role. I get what you're saying. The take on this podcast is kinda trash and completely ignores that this was the 90s. She fell in love with Steve and made adjustments. She's naturally a hard, stubborn, bossy woman. Steve challenged her, softened her, he loved her. She wanted to be loved. She found herself pregnant and wanted to have this baby. Feelings change. Careers don't keep you warm at night, said Marilyn Monroe herself. Girl bosses need to calm down. Its okay to care about your marriage and your partners needs.
I feel like she shot herself in the foot by being with Steve because she clearly wanted smth else out of life. She was the Manhattan type of girl who enjoyed that lifestyle and there’s nothing wrong with that. One can like whatever they want. Nobody should apologize for what they want or change that to fit in somebody else’s vision of how life should be. I think Steve was very immature and childish. Yet, yes, on some level you’re right, Miranda basically set herself up for this because she didn’t know herself better to make better and totally conscious choices. She didn’t own who she was after all and I think that was the problem.
Miranda was not baby trapped. Steve a had one testicle. She had a lazy ovary and had considered freezing her eggs. She had access to an abortion. She considered an abortion. She chose not to have one. Not accurate that she didn't want children. She considered freezing her eggs. Why take away her agency or shit on Steve for having feelings about being straight up poor and the conflict it brings up for both of them. They both co parented succesfully for a year and dated others in their respective economic classes. He did not drag her to Brooklyn. Hard pass on this fake feminist take on Sex in the City. Baby trapped is a real thing.. ..for poor women or women without access to birth control or abortions through high control religions. Bad takes that make a well developed character with privlage and agency a victim? Gen X, lived this era, they were feminist issues, they still are, we were not all absent of cleverness and agency. Also, being a mother is, shocker, about caregiving and taking care of others. Seriously, ladies, WTF.
I think that she was baby trapped to Steve in the sense that she perhaps wanted to have a child because she felt like that might have been her only opportunity to become a parent, but she did not really think about the consequences of co-parenting and being in a relationship with Steve as the father of her child for the rest of her life
You’re reading something that isn’t there here. Baby trapping here is 100% referring to Miranda having a child despite not fully thinking it through because she felt like it was her obligation.
He may not have physically dragged her to Brooklyn, but he did emotionally manipulate her into it. "It's not all about you Miranda" is a crappy thing to say to someone who is buying the house you two are going to live in. They could've easily gotten a place in Manhattan at her salary as a law partner but he was insistent on Brooklyn for some reason. And whatever Steve wants, Steve gets.
I don’t recall the show specifying that Miranda was buying the house in Brooklyn on her own. It’s assumed that she will sell her apartment, but I think they were buying the house together. Didn’t Steve own a successful bar? Why wouldn’t they buy the house together?
Also are we going to completely gloss over that it was probably the most significant financial investment of her life? She had a whole ass townhouse in Tony Brooklyn that is certainly now worth multiple times what she paid for it.
I feel like the only person on the planet that liked And Just Like That and accepts it as canon. Samantha's absence aside (which is really what's missing), each character had a logical, age-appropriate development (Carrie never learns anything though, right on brand) that I really enjoyed seeing. ESPECIALLY with Miranda! I always picked up on her queerness and I'm glad she gets the chance to explore that so openly and so passionately. A lot of the gripes that we had with Miranda in the series are addressed and CORRECTED, imo, in And Just Like That.
I also really enjoyed Charlotte's arc so far. Carrie is as self-absorbed as ever. And I don't like that how they wrote Stanford out in such a character incongeuent way after the actor's death. But seriously, aside from that I've really enjoyed it 😂
Steve "made more money" is supposed to mean that Miranda inspired him to be more ambitious and start a real business, while he was supposed to be the inspiration for her to be more trusting and nurturing.
Conclusion from this episode - Miranda is a basket case - at least her character has been betrayed like this. Honestly, she chose Steve because she had the illusion that she could control him. That's why she tried to buy the suite for him. That's why she chose Steve over Dr. Robert. She didn't want to be in an equal relationship. She never accepted him for what he is, a working-class bartender who will not understand her high-demand lifestyle with a man-child ego. At the same time, she was so scared of what people thought about her that she didn't enjoy herself or her success and money.
I agree. I don’t think Steve is a bad guy, but he was all wrong for Miranda. Miranda chose to marry him because humans are humans and can be socially and sexually lazy- marrying Brady’s bio dad who she did enjoy and have good sex with was the easiest thing to do. I can’t stand what they did to her character in AJLT but I was not surprised at all they got divorced.
I found their relationship so interesting because like I think that does happen in life? and sometimes a high achieving corporate person just wants a more chill partner and that their interactions are not part of some competitive capitalist box ticking. but then society subtly disrespects a guy with a high achieving partner in a way that is not done when the genders of the 'high achieving' vs 'low achieving' scenario is reversed. I saw their relationship as failing because it ran up on the shores of capitalism and gender judgements and they, particularly, Steve, didn't handle it very well. And I think that she did want a child on some level with Steve, or she could have just 'took care of it'. I think the real conflict was not 'self actualization for Miranda vs not' but 'we could be at peace with this unconventional lifestyle' vs 'all insecure etc because of the judgements of society'
I think you guys are missing the point of TV writing... yes Miranda could've had a fabulous life like Samantha's if she had more confidence, but we couldn't have another samantha in the group, it wouldn't be realistic (it would also be boring tv). I have yet to meet a Samantha in real life, and it's great to have her as a character, even if she is unrealistic. She's a great person to aspire to be. But most of us are Miranda's, we are great and have the potential to be great but we sadly settle in life. Her reality is so common and if a show depicts that reality, i dont think that's a show being less 'feminist'. Sure some parts of the show are dated but it's 2024 and women are still pressured into marriage and babies and have to deal with domestically incompetent men children. Are we really still thinking that a show could only be feminist if it "successfully" portrays women as having it all? That's a myth to keep women going under patriarchy. Short answer is no, and I dont think the show punishes women like miranda for thinking she can have it all. Patriarchy does that, and the show is just depicting it. I agree about Steve, he's terrible and although it was nice to see Miranda change some parts of herself for the better, it's sad we didn't get the same from Steve potentially (I guess him becoming more ambitious and opening the bar is seen as improvement thanks to Miranda).
I thought the reason Miranda doesn’t end up with the doctor is because of good old fashioned racism. The new show is much more racially diverse which I appreciate.
I am also a millennial woman of color. I hated this show like I hated Barbies, everything mainstream just means YT. It's all so unrelatable and non-yt characters are just racial jokes of how yt's want to see us
You're using the word "whities." Imagine if someone used the word "blackies." Racism is still racism even when directed toward those with less melanin.
@@BringBackClassAndMaturity I don’t agree with their comment but you can’t create a system and then be mad it’s not working for you anymore. Sounding like Kylie Jenner crying about beauty standards
To be honest I have one critique on the podcast, and that is that we are now 20+ years later and the role of women in society changed since then and that is not being factored by the speakers. So yeah, maybe 20 years ago it was more okay for women to "give in" and do have kids and step back on carreer. You still get frowned upon not wanting kids, not to mention it was worse 20 years ago. I know, I am willingly childless and it is still "weird".
I am 24 and I am a SAH/WFH mom, I watched this show for the first time while on bed rest from complications with my pregnancy. The role of women has not changed. I am mid level in my career of data science (I did high school and college at the same time, started my career at 18) and have noticed women are actually going backwards compared to SATC. Trad wife’s are everywhere we see and women are still pressured to give in. My MIL and Mother were both surprised I took this long to have kids especially with our long relationship. I was forced to put my career second and take a lesser paying WFH position to save on childcare. Everyone around me is already talking about the next baby and my son hasn’t even had his first birthday party yet. You might blame this on the way someone was raised but I grew up in a democratic household in the suburbs of San Francisco. This show is still very relevant to today.
So spot on with Steve being the "fun dad". When I see them I imagine they are like Robin Williams and Sally Field in Mrs. Doubtfire. Similar dynamics but ultimately both couples divorce
oh the allure of the "nice guy"... when you realize you're having kids, moving to the suburbs and taking care of his ill mother. not to mention he cheated on her at the end.
I never got how the audience is supposed to beleive they can no longer afford to live in Manhattan and that the apartment was huge. When she BUYS the place it has like 3 bedrooms. Steve is running a pretty successful bar. Why do they suddenly have no money??? It was such a non issue before
I actually appreciate the character arc that Miranda becomes more selfless through motherhood. I am a doctor, always thought I wanted travel and career but not kids. After a few years of marriage, I found I did want kids. Now happily married with two kids and three dogs. Still a successful doctor with a rewarding career. It’s not a character flaw that Miranda becomes more well-rounded. I see her arc as her world expanding (albeit with realistic challenges of motherhood with a demanding career)
I agree, Miranda was such a bitter and cyclical character, marriage and motherhood made her a nicer human being, she also became less insecure and judgmental. Sometimes always have what you want is not necessarily a good thing. Samantha’s confidence was very much based on her look and sex appeal, this type of confidence is not sustainable, what will she do when she is too old to be considered attractive? She dumped a younger lover because he noticed her wrinkles, she was so depressed when her period was late, she is hardly inspirational for me.
@@krn2683fair point, it shouldn’t be only on the woman to be more selfless. In any healthy friendship, family, or romantic relationship, both parties should grow in seeking to meet the other’s needs. In Miranda and Steve’s story line, I would argue that while Miranda becomes more selfless, Steve becomes more responsible and mature. Professionally, he starts as a bartender and ends as a small business owner (for which he credits Miranda, and says to her “I never would have done this if not for you”). He grows into a very active and engaged father. Miranda sleeps with Steve after coming home from an exhausting work day to find Steve had already put Brady to bed and brought home lilacs “just because.” He later makes a comment that “I’m getting a gut from all the (birthday party) cupcake action at that playground “ which implies he takes Brady to the playground regularly and frequently. And before he and Miranda decide to get married, he owns up to his previous immaturity and says “I don’t want to be that guy again.” **i only count the original series as canon and have purged all the awful character assassinations from the movies and AJLT from my memory**
I love Hobbes she was my fave. I’m in paralegal school and always daydream about working for her! I recently completed a rewatch and Miranda was a ball buster and insecure. The min she got a man on her level (a few times) she would do something silly to mess things up! That’s what Carrie and Miranda bonded over two insecure women; Charlotte and Samantha knew they were the shit! That’s why Carrie was so ugly to Charlotte about that town home/ring don’t be mad Charlotte got something out of the deal and you slept with Big for years knowing you had all that debt and he was rich! She should’ve stuck with Robert. Just standing next to him upped her profile and he had his own $ and cared about Brady. You think she would’ve left him for Che?! A blk family would love Miranda too esp mama bragging to the church how her daughter in law went to Harvard!!! Miranda was never going to be treated like Sam because men didn’t view her that way. You could be the most gorgeous woman you’ll never get more attention than a sexy, fit, confident and successful blonde like Samantha!!
Miranda's biggest downfall is Steve period. They were not compatible on most levels and I think it is the best depiction of love not being enough - compatibility is more impoartant. The choice of partner has such a huge impact on your life that for both of them; their incompatibility was so evident from the beginning. Choosing to see the pregnancy through was fully understandable; she could have just co-parented with him but choosing to marry him was the beginning of the end for our girl boss icon; she slowly started self-abandoning to make the relationship with Steve work. I must add that Steve is my absolute worst but Miranda was equally as complicit in creating her world with Steve
It's fascinating that a show can be thought of with so much depth without it being over analysing. It did in fact revealed a lot of realistic dynamics weighing on women's lives, even in a "post feminist" era that had the illusion that women and men were equal and there was nothing else to fight for.
The partnering of a high-powered women for high high-powered men can take a dark turn many men get off on the idea of "taming' "and putting a smart high powered woman back in her place like its sick
Would love to see analysis on Lynette from Desperate Housewives. I think Lynette was born to be a career woman but got pressured by her man-child husband Tom to sacrifice herself for the family. Clear examples of fake nice guys
I think my main issue is that we're discussing a programme that is literally filmed in a different era and we're imposing modern views on a very dated tv show. Sure, we can intellectualise it all we want, but we must still remember who wrote it, and when it was written - a lot of the behaviour and beliefs exhibited in SATC wouldn't be tolerated now, so discussing the characters within a 2024 context seems a little pointless. We must take into account the attitudes of the 90s and early 2000s and how different things are now. I'm glad I can 'unplug' and just re-watch it without enforcing my own modern views and just enjoy it for what it is - a fictional tv series set over 20 years ago when things were different.
I agree with you mostly; but, are things really different for women now? Just curious/ speaking as an older woman. Men seem to be ruder than ever to women; Roe versus Wade has been overturned; and some young women want to go back to being traditional wives. Are men really that much better today?
The verdict is NO! They are not. Men were better when they were the pickmes pining for a woman's affection and were actually afraid of a woman's father, brother, and uncle enough to know his place with his woman. So like 700+ years ago lol
Actually, this is really improtant to talk about because all the people divorcing today are probably the people that got married around the time this show was running. It's important to analyze it because there actually are still a lot of women putting up with mediocre or crappy men, and these same men and women who are part of that generation of tv are still dishing out dating advice 🙄 or looking for love again.
Carrie spends like someone who knows money won't be there tomorrow so you have to use it today. Its one of the reasons people stay in poverty despite their income
I'm going to be negative here and I apologize, but I can't believe a commentary of a 20 year old TV show is behind a pay wall. That's the laziest type of content. Especialy on this financial angle, it's unrealistic - it's way too good to be true, we all know it.
Eh I mean fair but it's still content that they have to do research for, take the time to record, etc. Like it's still work, regardless of what the topic is. And for that reason its behind a paywall! Also lazy or not, clearly the show has kept enough ppl interested that there's very much still a market for content and commentary about it!
I feel like you’re forgetting one key element regarding Steve Miranda. That element is they were much younger when they first got together by time towards the end series that you know they get married. It’s been a few years later. Steve has become more financially secure. He owns a bar back then he was just a bartender. There’s anything wrong with that. Miranda as time went on I see she got older she got pregnant. I was an accident. However, with a lot of women, not all women but a lot of women when your face with that decision your older she was financially stable. Women tend to change her mind that may be the last time the last opportunity may have so her decision to keep the baby made sense. Many women in their 20s as are beginning their careers say they do not want children. You are in your 30s, that fabled biological clock thing is true. You do hear that biological clock that’s if you want children or you don’t. Have the luxury of being able to father a childuntil their day. Women unfortunately do not have that same luxury.
This is a very Miranda take on Miranda haha I think the point of Miranda and Steve's story is Miranda learning to trust someone, and being willing to stretch outside the boxes she builds for herself. Dr. Leeds still fits into the box of how she imagines her perfect life going. Steve is a wrench in her grand plan. Steve shows up for Miranda more than this podcast gives him credit for, like when she has her eye surgery and thinks she needs no one. While I can agree he is whiny at times and INSUFFERABLE in the movies, I do think he is effective in helping balance out Miranda's perfectionism. I wouldn't go so far as to call her story tragic.
I would like to watch Miranda divorce Steve, receive custody of his son, move to Manhattan, become a partner of a top notch NY law firm, raise his son to be free spirited and capable young man, and see her thrive in life actually. Basically I would like to see her make up for the time that she has spent in her marriage. And maybe she can realise that she is bisexual. And as for Steve, I would like him to suffer both financially and emotionally, and keep whining in his corner😂 that would make my heart so happy 😂
as an early 80' milenial my young hipstery 20' early 30' are exactly those double standards, and Miranda was even better than us , and most of those girlfriends at the end of the day didnt peruse their personal goals, to even admit not peruse it cause it was too hard. i dont think they are happy, they settled for a guy cause of social norms, rent and just disliking been alone and disliking themselves. they tried and have kids on the last minute towards their 40' - not cause they love kids or wanted that at all , but just because- i think this is the disaster of my current financial millennial decade in somewhat more conservative country too but not just here. that our modern fatriarchi - is that we think we reached enough. still the most important thing is a guy-, babies are making a comeback through new age thinking, weird spiritual semi cults too - like bipolarism as a solution for geleci and power dynamics and more new age dogmatic stuff (not the positive ones), or for lesbians even - be in the same square usually and even worst, and feminism is just going backwards especially with sm beuty standards and gen zs has nothing to contribute but very fake progressive waves leaning on their predecessors opinions . i think women are too comfortable with just enough- its *understood but a boomer . *understood cause of 10,000 years of oppression even inherent fatigue. we dont only have to grab our sit at the table- we need the tables at the top of the top and we need to be better human beens, help one another, connect different positive reforms with gender equality , and work much much harder.
ya also her building boyfriend was perfect for her kinda - though no one really is that way... and when they broke his caricature to a womaniser- i was totally unreliable...
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Someone once said that women make horrible decisions on the basis of "love" and I think Miranda is an example of that. "I believe this is love, therefore I will suffer through it. In fact, the more I suffer, the stronger the love must be."
Yes exactly 💔
This is brainwashing. Girls are brainwashed into that idea since early childhood. Because it is convenient fo the society to convince women they should sacrifice anything to a be an unpaid servant of a man and reproduce with him and raise new generation of exploitable workforce
Wow. I really had to hear this. I am trying to get over a toxic person, who I thought loves me even when no one does and turned out he just betrayed me and lied to my face several times. Is hard, when that person is the only one you have.
Well said
"emotions"*
I'm VERY here for the Steve slander. He was such an Adam Sandler Shlubcore sadboy. This era was all about barely functional manboys failing upward and making way better women settle for them.
an Adam Sandler Shlubcore sadboy...ITS TOTALLY A TYPE nailed it!!!!
Megan thee stallion recently said he was the best character on the show and I was like whaaaat?
@@peachesandpoets Ayy i was so dumbfounded when she said this bc all of her songs definitely do bit support broke, unemployed and no perspective having man....??? So how is Miranda the worst character by wating him to do better?
Do not support***
Hot take- Magda was an agent of the patriarchy and orchestrated Miranda’s settling for an average guy
this!
Ooh! As much as I love her, I must say that’s definitely true!
I gotta ask when did Magda come around - before or after her mom died? Because I can see this being true with Magda becoming a maternal figure to her and after so many bad dates, maybe Miranda didn’t trust herself to pick a good one. Also it’s just natural for people to react strongly when their parents like or dislike your new partner. That can be confirmation or it can be a source of tension or maybe even make her question her own judgment.
@@MalloryNewcombbefore
Like the agents in the Matrix 😂
The relationship between Miranda and Steve was, ultimately, joyless. It frustrated me to no end that she did not end up with Dr. Robert Leeds, with whom Miranda seemed so much happier and more compatible. Eigenberg has pointed out that Steve started out reading poetry and then they dumbed him down more and more. A shame for both characters.
YES! It still hurts that she didn't end with the doctor
Jared Padelecki said the same thing about Dean on Gilmore Girls
True. How's he go from that to Scooby Doo? He was so cool at first
@@hcf4kd1992he was reading philosophy when they met..then they reduced him to scooby doo and skidmarks
Blue collar doesn't mean uneducated all the time.
There’s an episode (The Real Me) that purposefully juxtaposes Miranda and Samantha, where Miranda tries to exude confidence like Samantha, and she’s punished for it. The guy at the gym thinks she’s cute, she invites him over and tries to employ a Samantha way of confidently describing herself. The guy tells her later he thought she was too full of herself. The difference is that criticism alters Miranda’s future behavior, whereas Samantha would have shrugged it off.
Samantha is punished as well. She is "slutshamed" at the PR firm, constantly disrespected by the men she is seeing, (e.g. pressured to do certain things like the guy who kept insisting she swallow and talks to her in a rather crude manner about it and refuses to eat healthier so it has a better taste, or the way the "big shot" guy treated her) even in the movie where they're in Abu dabi she is shamed by the crowd when everything falls out of her bag.
There is a difference in how she handles it but she is definitely shamed, and even in how they write the show as though her only options are to be empowered and alone, or limited by a man, I would say is very much punishing the character.
You are totally right
@@mightytaiger3000 oh yeah, Samantha is absolutely punished throughout the show and by the writers, albeit in a different way (and they’ve continued to punish her in the new series). I’m just highlighting this episode because in the podcast they discuss at length the juxtaposition of Samantha and Miranda, but they didn’t mention that the show did make a purposeful choice in this particular episode to highlight that juxtaposition and showcase the differences between the two characters.
Great analysis 🧐 🔥
I think Miranda is a cautionary tale of what happens when you're a woman who has a high powered financial life, career but low self worth/esteem and therefore lets loser men guilt her into making decisions against her bst interest. I think the writers actually showed a very realistic and relatable character arc. Many women I know have ended up in this trap (including myself) and it's fitting Miranda did as well. Even getting back together with Steve after Brady was born - she wanted to make it work with the father of her child, which is not uncommon. It's a fantasy many women have. Its also hinted at that Miranda doesnt have a necessaeily close relationship with her family of origin so perhaps that was a factor. I think Miranda was unhappy with her life in a lot of ways, which is why her attitude was always so cynical and judgmental (in earlier seasons). While I have qualms with the followup series, Miranda divorcing Steve makes tons of sense.
“It’s a fantasy many women have”. No, it’s an instinct.
And “loser men”, excuse me, who do you exactly think you are?
@@Tityretupatulae Women have the fantasy of an equal partner, who make having a career and family at the same time achievable. Steve was the reality - a lazy manchild who pushed all the childcare/eldercare and housework onto her instead of participating equally. You sound really offended, but hit dogs will holler, I guess.
@Tityretupatulae Thanks for proving her point 👍
I had a weird age gap relationship in my early 20's that lasted way too long. I could never articulate the way I was made to feel when I wanted to leave the relationship. They were sooo nice yet incredibly suffocating and always doing things for me I didn't ask for. So when I would try to leave I was made to feel bad because how could I leave someone that does everything for me? My self esteem was low and the little guilt trips were enough to keep me around. The whole guilting people into making decisions against there best interest is exactly what I was up against, but could never articulate what it was. Thank you!
@Makaylaaooo girl I have had many age gap relationships. I realized way too late it was a trap and despite how much life I had lived and how mature I though I was, I was naive.
When I was buying my house by myself people looked at me like I have 3 heads? All by yourself? Such a big house just for yourself? Fuck yea I said. I was reminded of when Miranda bought her place. I didn’t have kids, I never met a man I wanted to marry. Why should I wait for those things? Now I’m my 40s I know I made the right choices. Still no husband, no kids, and I still love my home.
Is that very common where you're from? when I bought my flat by myself, I never had any questions.
@@alejandramoreno6625 I’m in America and yeah that happened with every single house I looked at. I said finally that it’s always gonna be only me because I don’t want to get married or have kids.
I got the same kind of nonsense when I was buying a house as a single woman in the 90s. A lot of women telling me men would be to intimidated by a woman who owned her own house. I was getting my masters in electrical engineering. If guys were going to be intimidated, it was already too late.
@@lisapt6702 yeah I always hear about men being intimidated and it’s just not my problem. Why should women hold themselves back so that the fragile male ego can be protected? Was I supposed to not be successful and hope and pray that someday a man would give me what I want and need? I’m glad I made the choices I made even thought I’m in my mid 40s and I’m single. I’d hate to not be myself just to be in a relationship.
It happens to single men, too. My husband (before he met me) faced a similar reaction when he bought a house as a bachelor. Our neighbor, a single bachelor, also introduces himself and immediately explains how and why he bought a suburban family house even though he's single without kids. He feels the need to explain even before he's asked.
Not only it was Steve like a terrible partner. But Miranda had low self-esteem, she had some very attractive and economically stable men that wanted something serious with her, but she sabotage every single one of those.
What does the economically stable thing has to do with anything here?
@@alejandramoreno6625because she was much more financially stable then steve. did you watch the video?
Like the detective! Oh my goooood!
@@alejandramoreno6625 My God, you are so naive to think that finding an economically stable man is not important. There is power in a well-rounded couple. It's not only a romantic relationship, it is everything.
@@alejandramoreno6625 One of the biggest reasons for divorce is MONEY!
In my opinion, the fundamental difference between Samantha and Miranda is that Miranda is always playing by other's rules. Samantha runs her own company, she had a boss mindset. Meanwhile Miranda is also wealthy, but, playing a rule in a company ran by a boss, with a team compound by men. This kind of situation, when you have the money but dont make the rules, that's one of the issues, that buids Miranda's character.
I always felt Miranda was done extremely dirty. She was always the one getting punished for things like being ambitious in her career, having a baby, having casual sex....things that the other women had that somehow turned out great for them.
Yeah I don’t think the writers like her, they just needed a foil to contrast with the other women.
Aiden and Steve give off "two dudes starting a podcast" vibes
From the first time I watched the show as a teen, I never understand why Miranda (or anyone) liked Steve. I found him ugly, and he was a whiny, immature, insecure loser who essentially acted as a parasite and deliberately manipulated Miranda by always playing the victim and preying on her insecurities about being too masculine. And I agree his voice is annoying af.
There’s literally nothing good about him, and Miranda was clearly only with him out of fear of being alone.
Tbh, factoring in the times, Steve was an early example of toxic masculinity.
@@geoffgraves2780 wasn't that Big?
True that. His voice is so annoying
I liked Steve, but then again I watched as a teen so what did I know
@@geoffgraves2780I did not find him masculine, he looks like a little girl, whining all the time
Making the Miranda episode free seems so Miranda…
Agree, I don't even care about the other three, specially not the Carrie's one.
😂
This it the most true and hilarious comment ever posted. Amen. Good night.
@@CrisOnTheInternetI okay
Miranda was a successful woman who had to be humbled and dull herself. The fact that the TV show was created by men shined through, even though it was about women for women. As a girl, I wanted to be Miranda and how they diminished her as the show progressed. I loved her personality, plus the balance of confidence and self-doubt. In the end, they got her stuck with a man-child, why?
Because some of those men were projecting their wishes onto women. "Not everyone can have that awesome 6'3" successful hunk, he wants a model anyway, other guys deserve a chance". Basically gaslighting women into not being so picky and settling for okay men, because hey, you gotta have a family at SOME point and there's worse guys out there!
So in a simplified nutshell , Miranda was punished for being career minded by “winning “ man shaped damp rag Steve and being dominated , Sam was punished with cancer for being sexually free and uncaring of men’s feelings , Carrie was rewarded with wealth and a ring for hanging in there with Big through all the stupidity and being a side piece and Charlotte was rewarded with a marriage to a nice man after kissing some frogs ,for doggedly pursuing a traditional marriage and babies since she was 15 years old.
@@Madmik6365 fuck when i read it this seems like a horror story now.. The male directr in the title screens alawyas botehred me
@@kattodoggo3868 it's been bullshit from the jump but we were far too entertained to see it at the time.
not only men but specifically darren star and patrick king, both ga y.
I didn't watch the show until I was in my mid 20s and I was completely repulsed by the way the men that all of them were dating talked to them, particularly in the s x scenes. But also at that moment understood why my peers accepted the kind of things that they do from men, why they viewed s x in the way that they did (like g ay men) and why they expected other women to put up with immature outbursts, passive aggressive comments and an undertone of competition with each other, in the name of "female friendship. And why overall I could never see eye to eye with my contemporaries who had been brainwashed by that show all through their adolescence.
Ladies let this be a reminder that we need to invest in our self esteem, that is the only think that will allow us to walk away from where we are not respected & celebrated . She had it all, but she didn't know it. I still love her 💕
Amen!
Didn't Carrie give her c rap twice for walking away from Steve? once during the show, telling her she never accepts "flaws" in people, and then in the movie, when she tells her during Valentine's day that she is "crazy" for separating from steve after he sl ept with someone else.. yet Carrie would have had a mental breakdown if Big had done the same thing to her.
I was so against Steve and Miranda, it was incredibly frustrating to watch. I'm a career woman and I DATED a Steve at one point. Every frustration she had, I felt with her lol. You can have it all, as long as there isn't a man child in the picture. I always felt so bad for her, especially the one episode where she's going to make dinner and in a chaotic string of events, the marinara sauce falls out and breaks all over the floor. She mistakes exhaustion for needing a man and it kills me every time I watch the series.
exactly. That whole monologue after she dropped the sauce felt so forced. she never really liked steve that much. point blank. she even comments to carrie at one point earlier in that episode "I'm never gonna be a girly girl! A girly girl would want her boyfriend to move in!" Like??? no?? hate the idea that just because a woman has a more masculine persona she's also closed down emotionally, particularly towards men. Miranda was just using that as an explanation for her general lack of enthusiasm about Steve in general. I actually liked her arc in ajlt because it shows her reckoning with her true wants and desires after DECADES of ignoring them in a very real, painful, destructive way.
@@charlottefarrell9095 YES!!! You hit the nail on the head!!!
The show did Robert so wrong, and the way they wrote him off (where suddenly he's a playa with an International House of P-----) was frankly incredibly racist and lazy. I assumed Robert wouldn't last (Blair Underwood is so beautiful that he's often cast as the Perfect Guy who makes the heroine realize she should be with the schlub; see also Something New with Sanaa Lathan) but *how* they did it still makes my blood boil.
I got so angry about the way they turned him into an a******.
I never saw that way. He was pissed, he let her know his emotions, healthy reaction, when someone leaves you to go back to ex ...
Smith eventually saying "come to the playground to watch me shoot basketballs" is kinda what happened in the first movie. Samantha did her job as his manager/agent SO WELL that her life/career became all about Smith. The line in the movie "I love Smith, but does that mean that I should say his name 50 times more a day than I say my own?" was pretty groundbreaking at the time.
"the glitterati migrated to Brooklyn" to see his play so they kind of did that.
Yes but being an actor for such a hot guy is not that delulu
I am going to be upset by this one. Miranda got the shortest end of the stick out of all the sac girls. Steve was real piece of work. I believe the term used nowadays is hobosexual. He forced Miranda to let him move in, Coerced her into having a baby, and never even tried to help with the home or bring home the bacon...
When he cheated on HER and then all her friends agreed that she should forgive him??!?! I was HEATED
Didn't he eventually own a bar?
@@jessicaholmes4246and? Owning a bar/restaurant in nyc isn’t profitable until you get through the first 5+ years. Most fail before then. Then factor that he didn’t own it independently. In the show Miranda was the one who made money for the family and bought their home/ paid for their nanny.
He had his own bar..and made their home..their home
He did not coerce her into having a baby
Dude, the "double standard" of the suit issue is the whole point! They're showing that wealthy women are going to be punished for their success and can't "buy" the guy's attention/committment the way that wealthy successful men can. In the early 90s, that's what counted as "creative" storytelling on women's issues.
She couldnt pay Steve’s attention/commitment because Steve had integrity.
Women do not lack integrity for wanting stability in their lives. A baby's survival depend on the stability of its life, the stability of the mother's, and the stress in their mother's world. A man's "bloodline" literally DEPENDS on his woman being well taken care of 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ caring about stability and provision is different from being materialistic, and a woman who wants you to ha e a job, a good job, a solid career, and a drive to do right by your family and bloodline is also just doing right by her babies, making sure they have everything to make it in this world, mentally, physically, and healthwise. Gtfo here, mr. I will never birth a baby and physically suffer from the consquences 🙄
The suit issue was one of the weirdest things in the entire show.
Like….. why wouldn’t an Irish catholic from queens have a suit?
Not a designer suit, not a bespoke suit….
A regular suit from Macy’s or something.
It doesn’t make sense.
And then….. okay he didn’t have a suit.
Couldn’t Miranda…. TAKE HIM TO MACY’s OR SOMETHING? Lmfao.
They have 2 for one suit deals. The. Some somewhat nicer suits.
She’s taking a dude with ZERO suit to Zegna or wherever the fk…..
For an 1800$ suit?
She couldn’t take him to get 2 for 300? Or a 500 dollar perfectly beautiful lovely affordable suit?
She could have bought him a fancy tie or a beautiful set of cuff links to “Snaz” it up.
It was such a weird storyline.
It’s NYC! There are little independent Italian tailors selling super slcheap suits they’ll tailor to you EVERYWHERE LMFAO.
There are huge department stores with credit card points and sales EVERYWHERE.
Like it makes no sense for Steve not to have had even one crappy men’s wearhouse suit for weddings and funerals. No sense.
But okay if he didn’t have one at the time why not just TAKE HIM THERE????
True but Richard was also punushed in series. Thou unlike Miranda, he was horrible person and desereved it.
@@nataliaalfonso2662 Yup, or rent one. That would have been the solution to everything.
She was the most relatable character for me when I watched and still watch the show. Not so much the pessimistic attitude, but trying to date as a modern woman. It's hard to find a partner when you are financially stable and independent. I've also had to relinquish a lot of my girl boss mentality to try to date men that wanted me to believe that what they had to offer was better than what I can just do for myself. I've been single for a long time because I'm honestly tired of "dating down". I'm not trying to be harsh, it's just the reality of what a woman might experience if she truly doesn't need a man, but likes to have a partner (and isn't gay).
But why would you date down?
If you’re successful, your dating pool needs to be only men richer and more successful than you.
It’s not like you have to settle for a schlubs bc you’re broke and desperate.
@@nataliaalfonso2662 it's not realized that it's below my status until a bit of time is passed. Meaning, they look well off and successful, but in truth their lifestyle just doesn't match mine. You don't see it the first date usually right? Now, I just don't date online anymore. That was always the catalyst of guys that claimed to be the prize with nothing to offer me more than I can give myself.
@@nataliaalfonso2662how about dating peers? Steve was a man child and definitely dating down but what about men who are equally successful?
I can relate to that... Women with more education and income than the man are too challenging for his ego. This inevitalbly leads to problems in a long term relationship. Most educated, rich and attractive guys tend to target young women with moderate state of education, so they could feel as providers and protectors. Otherwise around the men lose their manhood, and women may get fed up of taking all decisions, financial responsibility and also miss feeling as a woman and not as a machine. This is my imperssion by being in such a relationship and reaching a dead end street
@@nataliaalfonso2662 did this comment come across as desperate? I said I'm single for a long time. If I get asked out, it's usually by man that has less. Please mind what you type before you do. That was rude.
samantha all the way. back then, now and forever
I feel like Charlotte is underrated because she actually has the most personal growth throughout the show. She's not as career driven, but the way she gets all she wanted then it's a terrible marriage and she gets divorced and so many things go differently from her ideals at the start of the show. Also not to get into Just Like That, but she is probably the least selfish and happiest character.
I do think it's interesting that Charlotte is the one that gets what she wants by the end of the series. Maybe it's because she had a set goal and aggressively went for it, whereas the others were more casual with their dating.
@@hpr2008 Yes agree! Charlotte was the most driven in her overall life direction. I think you make a good point! It's easy in the show and that era to only see the career aspect as 'driven' but actually, finding your person and having a family whilst creating meaningful friendships and building a career in the arts is a big achievement! Even considering having close friends that don't align with your values and goals.
I absolutely agree! She learned some life lessons the hard way and became a better person overall because of it. She ditched her unrealistics ideals for companionship and landed with someone outside of her "type" who genuinely made her happy and was willing to give her everything she wanted. And I feel like she and Samantha were more complementary to each other in this way. Because while they both wanted different things relationship and career-wise, they were very goal oriented and headstrong in their beliefs. Compared to Miranda and Carrie, Charlotte and Samantha came out on top and were far less tragic!
she is also the one that had the most conservative values, even if at times her outlook borderlines on childish.. just sayin'...
and in turn, she is the one whose aspirations and problems are dismissed the most by "the girls"...just sayin'
@@ecrawl4902 exactly this, I think the key with both of them if they were optimistic and driven and eventually became flexible to reach their goals! Miranda and Carrie have some career aspirations but not clear on what they wanted from relationships, children etc.
“People who don’t like their jobs spend a lot of time on Reddit”. Damn. You got me.
Lmao😂 that's when I created a reddit. When I was at a job I didn't like lol
Lmaao.. same
a friend taught me the phrase "not my circus, not my monkeys" and that's the only way I've been able to deal with friends that have, by my standards, risky financial attitudes. I just remind myself of that, give my savings at extra strong hug, and let it go.
I usually say “not my problem, not my solution”. Same philosophy.
Your friend must be Polish 🙂🇵🇱
@@czarnadalia4523 also thought about that 😂
The older I get (I'm 28 now) the more I don't vibe with Miranda. She frequently is just frankly too rude & harsh on people, when I think I initially perceived it as being a good "girl boss" and rightfully assertive. She is also famously extremely insecure on the inside. Team Samantha & Charlotte alllll the way.
However, the older I get, the more Steve is also a horror-story boyfriend/husband rather than a cute golden retriever guy
She is insecure and that’s why she lashes out, it’s not an excuse but she like a lot of girls were told to not focus on anything but school. Once they reached what they were told was success they realized it wasn’t everything. She 100% is a product of that
Weird, I think Charlotte in the original series was just mean a lot of times lol (also being a proud wasp is.....not it these days). It also showed in the dynamics of the group that the other women preferred to confide in Sam or Miranda before letting Charlotte in the loop
@@MsKateC2K That's fair. My praise of Charlotte is mostly that she's someone with a very healthy sense of self esteem. She definitely knows her worth and acts accordingly, which I think is a good role model for women!
@@SamanthaC-ij3wb that's true, I think we all need a bit of Charlotte in us, and Miranda could have benefited from that for sure. I also do admire her sense of optimism
She's also an accurate portrayal of a successful professional New York woman in the 90's when the show started.
The basketball shooting stuff was WILD. Steve was acting like a 10 yo.
Someone finally pointing out that a big firm lawyer this successful does NOT have time to hang out with her friends this much 😅 out for breakfast w the girls on a weekday are you joking
I thought their breakfasts were literally always a Saturday or Sunday thing?
Usually Sunday bc they’re telling each other about their Fridays and Saturdays
If Steve has no haters I’m dead
'spiritually a bum'... I actually LOL'd. perfect description of steve
I am currently rewatching the series for like the 3rd time...Miranda is extremely insecure!!! I never realized how bad until this go round. The LA trip, her dating the hot detective...essentially aside from Skipper and Steve she never felt good enough for a guy.
The threesome episode was so cringe.
Ohh Skipper! He would have been a much better fit for her if she wanted to date a younger dude. At least a much better choice than Steve.
It hurts how Miranda was always unsatisfied with her life, even now in And just like that
my god...AJLT Miranda got a lobotomy all for Che.
I’m no Carrie Bradshaw apologist, but when Miranda called Carrie saying she threw out her back, Carrie told her she had to work meeting to go to. Miranda said basically “get over here now” and hung up in Carrie’s face. So Carrie asked Aidan to go check on her while she went to her work meeting.
Then, Miranda went to take a shower and by the time Aidan arrived, she was naked on the bathroom floor. It’s not like Miranda called Carrie and told her she was stuck on the bathroom floor and Carrie just sent Aidan out of laziness/lack of care.
Now her standing Miranda up because Big bought some meat at the last minute?? Heinous.
Agreed. People are so often so confused about Carrie.
Like why tf would Miranda ever think she’s entitled to Carrie’s workday mornings?
Like huh? Woukd Miranda EVER have done the same for anyone else? Drop her job and go help a friend with a neck ache?
Absolutely not.
agreed
I personally don’t agree with this take. Yes carrie had a prior commitment but her best friend had a health scare and needed real help, and carrie spent most of her work day doing nothing ( nothing substantial) so im sure she could of rescheduled her meeting no problem by calling in a family emergency, cuz their friendship was family to them.
The following scene with the “bs bagels” i think highlights that dynamic between them were carrie only ever thinks about herself- miranda was in a neck brace and in pain struggling and carrie proceeds to make jokes and not even really ask her about her pain and condition but is ready and desperate to talk about her bf problems …
Steve was a whole dusty. He was sleeping on her couch but still had time to date👎🏾
He was a dusty before a dusty was a thing
@@modaberidesign8025 Way back when we didn’t yet have the vocabulary to articulate how truly trifling he was for that.
@@Jerel_con_jota actually I think because we do not have a vocabulary for it, mistaken it to be love, although he is just parasite and always nagging, I hate every moment of him in screen as a character
todays' version is being 40 still not fiscally stable and have all the time to be on social media but none for working at a cvs or starbucks
This is really interesting! You said that Miranda had to change her entire personality in a show that preaches the importance and power of a unique character, but then I feel like the line between 'growth' and that sinking of one's entire person is quite blurry. Charlotte, too, would have never imagined herself with someone like Garry, and with him, she has to unlearn things, primarily the idea of Picture Perfect Love. I feel like with Steve, Miranda, too, unlearned some harmful notions, like, for example, girlbossing her way through life, defending herself against one of her fears, real intimacy with men. I always thought that was a thing with her. Now, obviously, if you don't want to have kids, there is nothing to unlearn about that, nothing wrong you need to fix; but was it really Not Wanting kids in her case, or just being scared to even entertain the idea of that, her past experience with men being quite bumpy, as she would be continuously perceived as too harsh, or too masculine, or sometimes even not conventionally attractive. :( (though she is beautiful!)
I love y’all’s deep, frustrated long suffering sighs throughout this.
I see SATC very differently at when I watched at 20 and under, late 20’s/early 30’s and then the last time I watched at closer to 40.
It was seen as empowering when it was new but now there are so many things that make me want to take 3 of the 4 and shake them. The obsession with finding “the one” is grating.
I remember when it first aired and Miranda was seen as the dry, hostile feminists. Not just portrayed in her attitude and interaction with men and others but the clothing choices and hairstyle.
She was deeply insecure about her femininity so it seems to drive her aggressive defense of anything about her that wasn’t “traditional”.
By having Steve love her it was more in spite of who she was instead of because of who she was.
And by marrying “good” guy Steve, having a child, quitting her high powered lawyer job in the first movie was supposed to be her redemption arc.
I’m not say any of that was a good thing but I do hate how she was presented and the road the character was taken on.
I think Miranda was ultimately less embodied than Samantha because she wasn't nearly as sure of what she wanted -- she was also younger than Samantha. Your 30s and your early 40s are very different life stages! Her relationship with Steve kept her in a constant state of uncertainty and internal conflict. Did she want the high-powered job? Did she want the man and the family? Could she have both, maybe? She talked tough, but she didn't really know, and compensated with bluster that just barely masked her anxiety. And I do think the arc is incomplete without And Just Like That because then you can see that comphet was also scrambling Miranda's ability to understand what she wanted out of life. (Which I actually think is somewhat inconsistent with her character through most of the series, but casts her arc over the course of the entire SATC universe in a very different light. Steve didn't gaslight her, she gaslit herself into thinking the Brooklyn mom life was for her.)
The huge character arc in And Just Like That also makes her decision to sabotage the relationship with Robert for Steve super interesting! She was finally with someone who was a better match for her; she still didn't settle in. It didn't feel right for her. The joyless relationship with Steve was at least familiar -- instead of having to really interrogate why she couldn't just relax into the relationship with Robert, and find some answers she wasn't ready for (which is that Miranda is not straight), she could bounce her unhappiness in a straight relationship back onto Steve. With Robert, her dysphoria and comphet were impossible to ignore and it was terrifying. So... truly, any analysis of Miranda without And Just Like That is incomplete. (Also -- it's worth watching for Charlotte's transformation. And to understand how miserable Miranda must have been playing straight that Che Diaz was so irresistible to her.)
Also explains why Samantha had more money. Your career takes big jumps between 30 and 40, Samantha was about 8-10yrs older than the other three.
@@Natalie_11188 And she owned her own successful business.
Remember that it is a show written by men and that Miranda’s character / entire life / internal thought trajectory was “mansplained.“
In real life, a woman as smart and independent as her character was, would have seen most of the curveballs and tried to avoid them.
In reality, many single, child free, successful women do not pine for less than average men and could easily choose to be single/keep their savings and sanity, intact.
They made her life more difficult because this is their (and perhaps society’s) impression of a woman
In her position.
@@MRC5981 Eh, the show was definitely created by a man, but I think it's a mistake (and more than a little sexist) to willfully ignore that women writers, producers and the lead actresses themselves had a hand in the direction of the show, the development of the characters, etc. SJP became deeply involved as the series progressed. AJLT provides a new lens through which to view Miranda's SATC trajectory (that actually mirrors Cynthia Nixon's, as a matter of fact) and important one to consider: Miranda is not straight. Miranda is queer, and didn't realize it until much later in life. A lot of her more frustrating moments (especially sabotaging relationships, picking dopey male partners and setting herself up for a relationship of disappointment) make a new kind of sense in that light.
A lot a very good points and interesting discussions. My only remark is regarding their financial situation. As a long time single woman who lives on her own, saving and balancing a budget is very hard when your a single income, with barely or completely no parental or familial support of any kind 😅. You sound like you both have partner and family around. These are privileges a LOT of people don’t have. And a lot of single income households barely have any savings or retirement plans. And it was already the case in the late 90s early 00s! So Carrie having only 700$ to her name in her late 30s is not just her not being financially responsible, it’s just extremely hard when you are the only one baring 100% of ALL expenses: rent, groceries, emergencies.. eating out is cheaper at 2 and more, so is ordering food in, driving, family plan, subscriptions, insurance, etc… it’s something that’s barely covered in discussions about SATC. Having a partner/spouse and/or a supportive family aren’t a default situation for a lot of people, especially in big cities. 😅
And Steve had a lower wage job. I don't get the hate. Everyone deserves to navigate love. They taught each other a lot as tge series went on, and even in the first movie
Although Carrie's financial irresponsibility was pretty well written into the show. I know we're also living in the magic realism but there was much in the show prior to that episode to show that she was focused on carefully spending her money because she had to pay rent in her bills
I've lived as a single woman since I was 19 in 2001. Never had an issue with saving money or setting up retirement. Bought my first house at 24 and have supported myself with no family help.
I’m a single woman supporting myself on my own, and although it’s not always easy, I’m able to take care of myself and I don’t have a high paying job. If you’re serious about paying bills and getting on your feet, you have to be serious about what you’re spending on your money on. Sometimes you won’t be able to go out in the night life or constantly going out to eat.
It’s not easy, but it’s doable.
@@WhenSaraiSpeaksUListen
Hmmm. I wonder if you have kids? Or, if you own a home? Put yourself through school? Have a great career?
Sometimes the sacrifices made by single women are much greater than supporting basic necessities like food and shelter.
They may want kids; or to start a business; or something else that requires a significant cash outlay to properly achieve. It’s so much easier with support; but, as stated in the first post, a partner and family connections are not guaranteed. I suppose that if you want to live a small life without dreams of anything grander… All is possible.
I always felt i was more like Miranda. With a hint of Charlotte. I was always working and worrying about life so someone like Steve did appeal to me (when i 1st watched the show in my 20s) i also found the actor attractive. Now, at 42 and a single mother *because a guy like Steve but worse, is now my baby daddy, and i was 32 at the time, (luckily we parted ways years ago and he is NOT in our lives) now, i realize how BAD Steve was for Miranda.
The Steve impressions made this soooooooooooo enjoyable.
I'm quite something in the city, dealing in top end real estate.
My career and my ex boyfriends kids (who I now have custody of) take priority over being held down by any man.
Coming from a family of powerful boss babe energy, I can personally attest to the fact that most men are a hindrance to my lifestyle. Taking them out of the picture allows me to focus on my kids, and more importantly, myself.
I recently watched sex and the city for the first time in my 30s, as a married woman with 2 kids I found the show refreshing in portraying actual relationship dynamics work rather than a PC version of them. It is VERY difficult if not impossible to have it all, and this idea is hoisted on women not men. SATC was made during a changing landscape and very informed by it. Miranda very realistically portrayed how relationships work when you’re a girl boss, Samantha got rewarded but Samantha also ‘thought like a man’ - another thing being praised and rewarded during that time.The woman refused to even hold hands with her superstar heart throb supportive loving boyfriend
I love these TFD discussions so much, but I do wonder if there’s a limit to what extent we can evaluate SATC and it’s messages in a modern or “girl boss” context. I remember 90s culture being highly critical of women, especially “career” women who had the nerve to also want a fulfilling partnership. That’s how I see SATC personally. It’s not strange to me at all that Miranda ended up the way she did, or that Carrie ended up with Big. I see it as a subliminal message “this is what you get” that was pervasive in the NYC cultural conversation of that era.
Yeah, same with Friends.
I loved it when it originally aired in my late teens/twenties but I can’t watch it now that I am/was the ages of the characters.
What I’m not seeing in these comments is - Steve’s dementia mom! Can we talk about how much stress that added to Miranda’s life? Like he did not think for a single second how that would affect her. And also why you cannot get attached to a guy like this - he sometimes comes with family and aging family and that’s a whole bag of issues. Many men expect their wives to be caretakers for their aging parents cus they don’t want to do that work.
Maybe it's a hot take, but I don't think it was that bad that Carrie sent Aidan in the bathroom incident... How would she carry her? Lol Also, when Miranda called for help she didn't let Carrie tell her that she was on her way to a meeting
From what I recall, Miranda didn’t get a warning that Aiden was coming which I think is the really sucky part
@@TheDarkAgez true!
It’s not that it was wrong for Carrie to send Aidan (who was able to help an injured Miranda), but that she didn’t tell Miranda first who was hurt and justifiably embarrassed that her friend’s boyfriend saw her nude.
I think she shoots herself in the foot by already deciding what people see of her and how they perceive her and then then she ends up, projecting it outwards, and it shoots her in the foot. I get it. The show was trying to make a point about a high-powered job being intimidating, but Samantha’s got just as high-power a job if you really think about it and she isn’t projecting out that she’s not good enough to match with somebody because she has too much power…
I don’t think it was so much about dating outside of your social class as your socially emotional class … because with the right person with the right emotional intelligence, it wouldn’t matter what the income bracket is
Yes agreed. Money is easy, emotions are hard. And some people with lots of money still have no emotional awareness. That’s why dating/marrying a rich guy can still be a nightmare.
Steve wasn't even masculine, He spoke like a baby, yuck, did not see the attraction.
As a woman approaching 50, I watched the show when it aired, loved it, bought it on dvd and have watched it 100 times…a few things jump out now looking back at it; I think the women are portrayed through a gay male perception of who women are and how they think. It is patriarchal and limiting. The show is still great and the new series is great also though it took me a while to decide to watch it. I think you have to be a middle-aged woman who had experienced some of the lifestyles of the women to be able to identify with the growth of the characters. I’m actually glad they’re doing the show now because it allows them to correct some of the oversimplification of the characters the first time around and show more realistic life disappointments and challenges. And new friendships among mature women.
Charlotte had every right to call Carrie out for the affair. There is a difference between life choices and doing something a moral. Also Charlotte was dealing with fertility issues and literally just got her period so to see her friend get pregnant and then not keep the baby would be incredibly difficult. All she did was leave because she couldn't listen to the conversation. She didn't tell Miranda she was a horrible person or something.
I thought the same about the affair
Not to mention her character assassination in the follow up series.
She got downgraded into a bumbling buffoon
I know!! What have they done to her?? Literally polar opposite to her character in the original series
And a sexually confused, innately insecure woman. They took the spine out of her. How was she so staunchly straight only to become a lesbian? Makes no sense because she always had strong convictions .
That's what being married to a Steve for 20 years does to a woman
Oh gosh, you have nailed it! It;s mental how dumb her character has become- so totally lost and clueless. Sadly like most of them at that point. Silly barbies. I also don't appreciate tokenizing using each minority and overcompensating for not having any representation in the original series. Women are way smarter than in the AJLT...it's offensive to all characters, old and new sadly. While I can sort of understand what happened in the original series as it was still a freshly new ground for the writers the new series is just bizarre, bizarre and sad. Cluelesss characters make for sad show :(
@@HumppaOrDeath exactly what I was gonna say. She totally lost her mojo and winds up with a narc, Che. Self-esteem in the toilet.
I think the show did many of these story lines intentionally not to say that is was ok for that to be the situation but to say this is what is happening it is in fact not ok. Referring for example to the buying real estate thing. And other such situations from 20 years ago.
Yes. Their critiques are way off. Watched the show as it came out. Couldn't buy a house on my own or get business loans because of prejudice. That was exactly the point at the time....the double standards, the prejudice.
I watched SATC during my teen years and thought the characters and their lives were sooooo aspirational.
Now, I am a woman who is roughly the same age as the characters in the show. I am married with children and I am a therapist…gotta tell you, no.
I love that the characters aren’t perfect and reflect real human flaws, but their relationships and choices were a mess. Fertile ground for therapy and I enjoyed analyzing from my couch. I just feel much differently watching 20 years later.
Thank you for releasing this!! I've been dying to hear Miranda's the most.
I agree with you guys in a lot of what you said. Miranda had the worst arc in the show. It doesn't make any sense you let someone so perfect like Robert go. The only couple that should be end game was Miranda and Robert. They were equal in many ways. I don't even like Smith because he couldn't suport himself.
watching the re-runs of satc when i was a teenager (i turn 29 next month), i didn't like miranda much... i was always obsessed with samantha- who was the reason i was so interested in working in PR and marketing tbh, until i realised i hated it at uni in 2015, lol. but then again, i've probably turned into miranda, attitude wise, even though i'm not a high-powered lawyer. teen me liked steve, but if i was to ever rewatch it, i'd probably not like steve now lol.
Being successful at your career does not automatically guarantee that person also has a high emotional Intelligence. There are a lot of Miranda's out there.
Miranda ruined her life when she dumped Dr Leeds. No place else to go after that except switch teams 😂
I love Steve trashing always! Harry is my favorite husband/partner on SATC.
I'm 46 and watched the series in real time as a 20-something single woman.
Your perspectives are quite interesting and I am enjoying the comments.
Your critique in the beginning at the show producers about the double standards when it comes to male/female partners paying for their partners in the context of a suit incident - I think it's misguided. It would be more unrealistic if they created a storyline where a woman like Miranda never came across that type of a situation. Men feeling emasculated by a woman earning more (or being more educated) is still a thing to this day, they still put those women down to make themselves feel better. So they got it right, imo. Now, why on earth did they make her go back to him after that incident is beyond me.
I watched SATC in real time and I've always known myself to be a Miranda.
Ultimately, Miranda's portrayal as a "working woman" in a traditional men's world is pretty realistic. It's very difficult for a highly intelligent, driven, career woman to meet a man on her level. We're not feminine enough for the "Alpha" and so we almost by default, settle on some "hobosexual" like Steve.
I now see the contrast between Samantha & Smith's relationship and Miranda & Steve's in a new light now and may have to re-watch the whole series. Again! 🤣🤣
Thank you very much for this conversation TFD! I really appreciated your compassionate discussion on Miranda & all the characters of SATC.
I must say that I can relate to Miranda to a certain point when it comes to Steve, as I had made bad relationship choices myself, despite being an „independent & successful“ woman. Some people can have high self-esteem when it comes to their own capabilities, but low self-esteem when it comes to love & relationships. Luckily, I got rid of my „Steve“ long ago & did some self-reflection.
Whenever I watch the episodes of her not ending up with Dr Robert, Detective Stevens or Walker Lewis, I just cry on the inside. It's as if they wanted her to struggle.
Steve kept his puppy. Steve also had parenting time with Brady after he stopped breastfeeding. He also offered to sell his half of the bar to be financially supportive, but Miranda declined, and said she wanted to do this on her own. There were times when he showed up wanting to see Brady and she sent him away, which could have made him more comfy caring for Brady while Miranda was in Atlantic City, but he wasn't afforded that chance.
There are issues with Steve, especially around the puppy and the basketball episodes, but you're clearly skewing the issues out of his favor. Miranda was selfish and impractical in many ways.
I hope this is seen. As far as r/regretfulparents goes, I will openly admit that I may well not have become a parent if I had waited until I was old enough to think things through to become one. However, parenting is what you make it. The women on that subreddit are often impoverished, with no family or friends or partner support. Miranda is none of that.
Honestly, Miranda’s decisions would be so bad if Steve wasn’t such a flake. It would be worth it if Steve at least had character to balance out Miranda’s self perfectionism and insecurities.
Agreed, like okay if she’s the money, then it could be fine to date someone who earned less but was devoted to her, capable of running the home and being a good father and counsel to Miranda. It’s not all about money. The problem is that he was an actual child, in every sense. He didn’t want a child to father and parent, he wanted a toy baby to play with cus he got bored. And can we talk about the bs Miranda went through when Steve brought his dementia mother into her life??
I want to preface this comment by saying i LOVE TFD, but i hate this take. Y'all are acting like Miranda was such a prize because she was a successful lawyer. She was extremely rude, stubborn, very controlling, especially with Steve, cynical, and narrow minded. Her personality was awful.
Steve was by no means perfect, but he was sweet and he loved Miranda and would drink her bathwater if she let him. Steve was not the bum you are making him out to be. He was a bartender, which some bartenders make 6 figures which is not a far stretch in a place like Manhattan. He later on bought a bar with Aidan, which he still owns in And Just Like That (because Brady works there sometimes). He also bought another business in AJLT on Coney Island.
To say she settled for Steve is insane. Steve had Jessica and she had Dr. Leeds and they were doing a great job co-parenting. Both had partners who adored their child. Miranda did not act like herself when she was with wealthy successful men like Dr. Leeds or that rude lawyer who gave her the claps. She literally was wiping excess beer off his mug so he wouldn't curse the server out. She was herself with Steve because he gave her that safe space to be her.
Let's talk about Brooklyn. Miranda's apartment was tiny and they literally moved the bed to the living room. In Brooklyn, they had a huge home, which is now worth a fortune. Steve did the renovation work himself with his own hands.
Miranda controlled every single aspect of their relationship. She asked Steve to marry her, she picked the venue, decided it would be small and intimate, every detail was determined by her because she is a control freak.
The comparison of Smith (who is my favorite) to Steve is also crazy too because they literally both had the same type of job. If Samantha hadn't used her connections to skyrocket Smith's career he would have likely not became a star thus he would still be way under her tax bracket like he was when she gave him $300 for a night with her after she got him fired. Both men actually were good guys that cared about their partners and both women were resistant to being loved and cared for.
Now Steve was dead wrong for cheating, BUT intimacy is vital in a marriage. If she is only being intimate once every few months she could at least be into it. Saying can we just get this over with is extremely unfair. If you guys are going to refer to the movie, tell the whole story, not just your "Girl Boss" narrative.
These were all flawed characters, but Miranda had a terrible personality and that needs to be acknowledged.
Your take about intimacy in marriage tells me all I need to know about you, babe. Your opinion is not worth listening to.
@@WeNeedToWorry Your take on Steve’s infidelity is WILD. Miranda, and any woman for that matter, is not required to force herself to be “into it” for the sake of her husband’s feelings. Instead of being honest with Miranda about his feelings, Steve was weak and made a terrible decision by having an affair.
Also, Miranda’s personality is off-putting to YOU. You saw Miranda’s personality as something that needs to be fixed but some of us appreciated her candor for it was because she is relatable. There are a lot of successful women working in male dominated fields who completely understand where her personality comes from and they don’t need a man to come into their lives to try and knock them down a peg - which is what Steve constantly tried to do. Steve would make Miranda stay in bed longer in the mornings even though she loved her morning routine and wanted to be at work on time. Steve made Miranda take care of a dog that she never wanted. Steve stood Miranda up because he didn’t want to keep the expensive suit, but he could have still worn the corduroy one! Smith never tried to change who Samantha was fundamentally. He only wanted to be an addition to her already fulfilling life. But Miranda’s story was written in a way that she couldn’t possibly be fulfilled by just her career and friends - she needed a man to humble her and become a mother so she could “learn a lesson” and fundamentally change herself. And I’m glad TFD called BS on that.
@@hospitable_ghostharsh
Miranda knew she let the sex go away in her marriage. She played a role. I get what you're saying. The take on this podcast is kinda trash and completely ignores that this was the 90s. She fell in love with Steve and made adjustments. She's naturally a hard, stubborn, bossy woman. Steve challenged her, softened her, he loved her. She wanted to be loved. She found herself pregnant and wanted to have this baby. Feelings change. Careers don't keep you warm at night, said Marilyn Monroe herself. Girl bosses need to calm down. Its okay to care about your marriage and your partners needs.
I feel like she shot herself in the foot by being with Steve because she clearly wanted smth else out of life. She was the Manhattan type of girl who enjoyed that lifestyle and there’s nothing wrong with that. One can like whatever they want. Nobody should apologize for what they want or change that to fit in somebody else’s vision of how life should be. I think Steve was very immature and childish. Yet, yes, on some level you’re right, Miranda basically set herself up for this because she didn’t know herself better to make better and totally conscious choices. She didn’t own who she was after all and I think that was the problem.
Miranda was not baby trapped. Steve a had one testicle. She had a lazy ovary and had considered freezing her eggs. She had access to an abortion. She considered an abortion. She chose not to have one. Not accurate that she didn't want children. She considered freezing her eggs. Why take away her agency or shit on Steve for having feelings about being straight up poor and the conflict it brings up for both of them.
They both co parented succesfully for a year and dated others in their respective economic classes.
He did not drag her to Brooklyn. Hard pass on this fake feminist take on Sex in the City.
Baby trapped is a real thing.. ..for poor women or women without access to birth control or abortions through high control religions. Bad takes that make a well developed character with privlage and agency a victim?
Gen X, lived this era, they were feminist issues, they still are, we were not all absent of cleverness and agency.
Also, being a mother is, shocker, about caregiving and taking care of others. Seriously, ladies, WTF.
I think that she was baby trapped to Steve in the sense that she perhaps wanted to have a child because she felt like that might have been her only opportunity to become a parent, but she did not really think about the consequences of co-parenting and being in a relationship with Steve as the father of her child for the rest of her life
You’re reading something that isn’t there here. Baby trapping here is 100% referring to Miranda having a child despite not fully thinking it through because she felt like it was her obligation.
He may not have physically dragged her to Brooklyn, but he did emotionally manipulate her into it. "It's not all about you Miranda" is a crappy thing to say to someone who is buying the house you two are going to live in. They could've easily gotten a place in Manhattan at her salary as a law partner but he was insistent on Brooklyn for some reason. And whatever Steve wants, Steve gets.
I don’t recall the show specifying that Miranda was buying the house in Brooklyn on her own. It’s assumed that she will sell her apartment, but I think they were buying the house together. Didn’t Steve own a successful bar? Why wouldn’t they buy the house together?
Also are we going to completely gloss over that it was probably the most significant financial investment of her life? She had a whole ass townhouse in Tony Brooklyn that is certainly now worth multiple times what she paid for it.
I feel like the only person on the planet that liked And Just Like That and accepts it as canon. Samantha's absence aside (which is really what's missing), each character had a logical, age-appropriate development (Carrie never learns anything though, right on brand) that I really enjoyed seeing. ESPECIALLY with Miranda! I always picked up on her queerness and I'm glad she gets the chance to explore that so openly and so passionately. A lot of the gripes that we had with Miranda in the series are addressed and CORRECTED, imo, in And Just Like That.
I also really enjoyed Charlotte's arc so far. Carrie is as self-absorbed as ever. And I don't like that how they wrote Stanford out in such a character incongeuent way after the actor's death. But seriously, aside from that I've really enjoyed it 😂
Agree! It’s a more realistic, mature and diverse continuation of the series.
Steve "made more money" is supposed to mean that Miranda inspired him to be more ambitious and start a real business, while he was supposed to be the inspiration for her to be more trusting and nurturing.
She was a great character but they totally ruined her in "And Just like that" series that are like SATC 20 years later. They did her even more dirty.
Conclusion from this episode - Miranda is a basket case - at least her character has been betrayed like this.
Honestly, she chose Steve because she had the illusion that she could control him. That's why she tried to buy the suite for him. That's why she chose Steve over Dr. Robert. She didn't want to be in an equal relationship.
She never accepted him for what he is, a working-class bartender who will not understand her high-demand lifestyle with a man-child ego.
At the same time, she was so scared of what people thought about her that she didn't enjoy herself or her success and money.
I agree. I don’t think Steve is a bad guy, but he was all wrong for Miranda. Miranda chose to marry him because humans are humans and can be socially and sexually lazy- marrying Brady’s bio dad who she did enjoy and have good sex with was the easiest thing to do.
I can’t stand what they did to her character in AJLT but I was not surprised at all they got divorced.
Yes, Steve was a very good guy.
Miranda choking multiple times is scaring me
Those writers did not want to see her powerful and capable and healthy and happy. This was right after she bought her own house
I found their relationship so interesting because like I think that does happen in life? and sometimes a high achieving corporate person just wants a more chill partner and that their interactions are not part of some competitive capitalist box ticking. but then society subtly disrespects a guy with a high achieving partner in a way that is not done when the genders of the 'high achieving' vs 'low achieving' scenario is reversed. I saw their relationship as failing because it ran up on the shores of capitalism and gender judgements and they, particularly, Steve, didn't handle it very well. And I think that she did want a child on some level with Steve, or she could have just 'took care of it'. I think the real conflict was not 'self actualization for Miranda vs not' but 'we could be at peace with this unconventional lifestyle' vs 'all insecure etc because of the judgements of society'
I think you guys are missing the point of TV writing... yes Miranda could've had a fabulous life like Samantha's if she had more confidence, but we couldn't have another samantha in the group, it wouldn't be realistic (it would also be boring tv). I have yet to meet a Samantha in real life, and it's great to have her as a character, even if she is unrealistic. She's a great person to aspire to be. But most of us are Miranda's, we are great and have the potential to be great but we sadly settle in life. Her reality is so common and if a show depicts that reality, i dont think that's a show being less 'feminist'. Sure some parts of the show are dated but it's 2024 and women are still pressured into marriage and babies and have to deal with domestically incompetent men children.
Are we really still thinking that a show could only be feminist if it "successfully" portrays women as having it all? That's a myth to keep women going under patriarchy. Short answer is no, and I dont think the show punishes women like miranda for thinking she can have it all. Patriarchy does that, and the show is just depicting it.
I agree about Steve, he's terrible and although it was nice to see Miranda change some parts of herself for the better, it's sad we didn't get the same from Steve potentially (I guess him becoming more ambitious and opening the bar is seen as improvement thanks to Miranda).
"He's spiritually a bum" is SO spot on 🤦♀
I thought the reason Miranda doesn’t end up with the doctor is because of good old fashioned racism. The new show is much more racially diverse which I appreciate.
They deserved each other
I am also a millennial woman of color. I hated this show like I hated Barbies, everything mainstream just means YT. It's all so unrelatable and non-yt characters are just racial jokes of how yt's want to see us
You're using the word "whities." Imagine if someone used the word "blackies." Racism is still racism even when directed toward those with less melanin.
@@BringBackClassAndMaturity I don’t agree with their comment but you can’t create a system and then be mad it’s not working for you anymore. Sounding like Kylie Jenner crying about beauty standards
@@BringBackClassAndMaturityIt's not at all the same. Don't act like it is.
To be honest I have one critique on the podcast, and that is that we are now 20+ years later and the role of women in society changed since then and that is not being factored by the speakers. So yeah, maybe 20 years ago it was more okay for women to "give in" and do have kids and step back on carreer. You still get frowned upon not wanting kids, not to mention it was worse 20 years ago. I know, I am willingly childless and it is still "weird".
They literally acknowledged it in the first 5 minutes when they said Miranda was their favourite but now it’s Samantha
I am 24 and I am a SAH/WFH mom, I watched this show for the first time while on bed rest from complications with my pregnancy. The role of women has not changed. I am mid level in my career of data science (I did high school and college at the same time, started my career at 18) and have noticed women are actually going backwards compared to SATC. Trad wife’s are everywhere we see and women are still pressured to give in. My MIL and Mother were both surprised I took this long to have kids especially with our long relationship. I was forced to put my career second and take a lesser paying WFH position to save on childcare. Everyone around me is already talking about the next baby and my son hasn’t even had his first birthday party yet. You might blame this on the way someone was raised but I grew up in a democratic household in the suburbs of San Francisco. This show is still very relevant to today.
Motherhood is magical. I hope you one day choose to experience it.
@@BringBackClassAndMaturityshut up dude
@@BringBackClassAndMaturity🤮
So spot on with Steve being the "fun dad". When I see them I imagine they are like Robin Williams and Sally Field in Mrs. Doubtfire. Similar dynamics but ultimately both couples divorce
oh the allure of the "nice guy"... when you realize you're having kids, moving to the suburbs and taking care of his ill mother. not to mention he cheated on her at the end.
I listened to this on the Patreon, but I really love the visuals here on YT ❤
Love this analysis. Also makes me really want to watch the show again!
I never got how the audience is supposed to beleive they can no longer afford to live in Manhattan and that the apartment was huge. When she BUYS the place it has like 3 bedrooms. Steve is running a pretty successful bar. Why do they suddenly have no money??? It was such a non issue before
I actually appreciate the character arc that Miranda becomes more selfless through motherhood. I am a doctor, always thought I wanted travel and career but not kids. After a few years of marriage, I found I did want kids. Now happily married with two kids and three dogs. Still a successful doctor with a rewarding career.
It’s not a character flaw that Miranda becomes more well-rounded. I see her arc as her world expanding (albeit with realistic challenges of motherhood with a demanding career)
Yeah. Don't get the hate here for having a full life filled with love, community, home, rewarding career. It's bizarre to me.
I agree, Miranda was such a bitter and cyclical character, marriage and motherhood made her a nicer human being, she also became less insecure and judgmental. Sometimes always have what you want is not necessarily a good thing. Samantha’s confidence was very much based on her look and sex appeal, this type of confidence is not sustainable, what will she do when she is too old to be considered attractive? She dumped a younger lover because he noticed her wrinkles, she was so depressed when her period was late, she is hardly inspirational for me.
Why is it always on the woman to become more selfless? Giving in to a whiny man child isn't becoming more well rounded, it's being a doormat.
@@krn2683fair point, it shouldn’t be only on the woman to be more selfless. In any healthy friendship, family, or romantic relationship, both parties should grow in seeking to meet the other’s needs.
In Miranda and Steve’s story line, I would argue that while Miranda becomes more selfless, Steve becomes more responsible and mature. Professionally, he starts as a bartender and ends as a small business owner (for which he credits Miranda, and says to her “I never would have done this if not for you”). He grows into a very active and engaged father. Miranda sleeps with Steve after coming home from an exhausting work day to find Steve had already put Brady to bed and brought home lilacs “just because.” He later makes a comment that “I’m getting a gut from all the (birthday party) cupcake action at that playground “ which implies he takes Brady to the playground regularly and frequently. And before he and Miranda decide to get married, he owns up to his previous immaturity and says “I don’t want to be that guy again.”
**i only count the original series as canon and have purged all the awful character assassinations from the movies and AJLT from my memory**
I love Hobbes she was my fave. I’m in paralegal school and always daydream about working for her! I recently completed a rewatch and Miranda was a ball buster and insecure. The min she got a man on her level (a few times) she would do something silly to mess things up! That’s what Carrie and Miranda bonded over two insecure women; Charlotte and Samantha knew they were the shit! That’s why Carrie was so ugly to Charlotte about that town home/ring don’t be mad Charlotte got something out of the deal and you slept with Big for years knowing you had all that debt and he was rich!
She should’ve stuck with Robert. Just standing next to him upped her profile and he had his own $ and cared about Brady. You think she would’ve left him for Che?! A blk family would love Miranda too esp mama bragging to the church how her daughter in law went to Harvard!!!
Miranda was never going to be treated like Sam because men didn’t view her that way. You could be the most gorgeous woman you’ll never get more attention than a sexy, fit, confident and successful blonde like Samantha!!
Miranda's biggest downfall is Steve period. They were not compatible on most levels and I think it is the best depiction of love not being enough - compatibility is more impoartant. The choice of partner has such a huge impact on your life that for both of them; their incompatibility was so evident from the beginning. Choosing to see the pregnancy through was fully understandable; she could have just co-parented with him but choosing to marry him was the beginning of the end for our girl boss icon; she slowly started self-abandoning to make the relationship with Steve work. I must add that Steve is my absolute worst but Miranda was equally as complicit in creating her world with Steve
It's fascinating that a show can be thought of with so much depth without it being over analysing. It did in fact revealed a lot of realistic dynamics weighing on women's lives, even in a "post feminist" era that had the illusion that women and men were equal and there was nothing else to fight for.
The partnering of a high-powered women for high high-powered men can take a dark turn many men get off on the idea of "taming' "and putting a smart high powered woman back in her place like its sick
I already disliked Steve when I watched satc as a young teenager in the early 00s and the older I get the more I despise him.
Would love to see analysis on Lynette from Desperate Housewives. I think Lynette was born to be a career woman but got pressured by her man-child husband Tom to sacrifice herself for the family. Clear examples of fake nice guys
I think my main issue is that we're discussing a programme that is literally filmed in a different era and we're imposing modern views on a very dated tv show. Sure, we can intellectualise it all we want, but we must still remember who wrote it, and when it was written - a lot of the behaviour and beliefs exhibited in SATC wouldn't be tolerated now, so discussing the characters within a 2024 context seems a little pointless. We must take into account the attitudes of the 90s and early 2000s and how different things are now. I'm glad I can 'unplug' and just re-watch it without enforcing my own modern views and just enjoy it for what it is - a fictional tv series set over 20 years ago when things were different.
I agree with you mostly; but, are things really different for women now?
Just curious/ speaking as an older woman. Men seem to be ruder than ever to women; Roe versus Wade has been overturned; and some young women want to go back to being traditional wives. Are men really that much better today?
The verdict is NO! They are not. Men were better when they were the pickmes pining for a woman's affection and were actually afraid of a woman's father, brother, and uncle enough to know his place with his woman. So like 700+ years ago lol
Actually, this is really improtant to talk about because all the people divorcing today are probably the people that got married around the time this show was running. It's important to analyze it because there actually are still a lot of women putting up with mediocre or crappy men, and these same men and women who are part of that generation of tv are still dishing out dating advice 🙄 or looking for love again.
Carrie spends like someone who knows money won't be there tomorrow so you have to use it today. Its one of the reasons people stay in poverty despite their income
I'm going to be negative here and I apologize, but I can't believe a commentary of a 20 year old TV show is behind a pay wall. That's the laziest type of content. Especialy on this financial angle, it's unrealistic - it's way too good to be true, we all know it.
Eh I mean fair but it's still content that they have to do research for, take the time to record, etc. Like it's still work, regardless of what the topic is. And for that reason its behind a paywall! Also lazy or not, clearly the show has kept enough ppl interested that there's very much still a market for content and commentary about it!
I feel like you’re forgetting one key element regarding Steve Miranda. That element is they were much younger when they first got together by time towards the end series that you know they get married. It’s been a few years later. Steve has become more financially secure. He owns a bar back then he was just a bartender. There’s anything wrong with that. Miranda as time went on I see she got older she got pregnant. I was an accident. However, with a lot of women, not all women but a lot of women when your face with that decision your older she was financially stable. Women tend to change her mind that may be the last time the last opportunity may have so her decision to keep the baby made sense. Many women in their 20s as are beginning their careers say they do not want children. You are in your 30s, that fabled biological clock thing is true. You do hear that biological clock that’s if you want children or you don’t. Have the luxury of being able to father a childuntil their day. Women unfortunately do not have that same luxury.
This is a very Miranda take on Miranda haha
I think the point of Miranda and Steve's story is Miranda learning to trust someone, and being willing to stretch outside the boxes she builds for herself. Dr. Leeds still fits into the box of how she imagines her perfect life going. Steve is a wrench in her grand plan. Steve shows up for Miranda more than this podcast gives him credit for, like when she has her eye surgery and thinks she needs no one. While I can agree he is whiny at times and INSUFFERABLE in the movies, I do think he is effective in helping balance out Miranda's perfectionism. I wouldn't go so far as to call her story tragic.
Let's be honest, Steve was the punishment. Trapped with him and a child to make her "humble".
I would like to watch Miranda divorce Steve, receive custody of his son, move to Manhattan, become a partner of a top notch NY law firm, raise his son to be free spirited and capable young man, and see her thrive in life actually. Basically I would like to see her make up for the time that she has spent in her marriage. And maybe she can realise that she is bisexual. And as for Steve, I would like him to suffer both financially and emotionally, and keep whining in his corner😂 that would make my heart so happy 😂
The Steve impression 13:43 😂🙌🏽
as an early 80' milenial my young hipstery 20' early 30' are exactly those double standards, and Miranda was even better than us , and most of those girlfriends at the end of the day didnt peruse their personal goals, to even admit not peruse it cause it was too hard. i dont think they are happy, they settled for a guy cause of social norms, rent and just disliking been alone and disliking themselves. they tried and have kids on the last minute towards their 40' - not cause they love kids or wanted that at all , but just because- i think this is the disaster of my current financial millennial decade in somewhat more conservative country too but not just here. that our modern fatriarchi - is that we think we reached enough. still the most important thing is a guy-, babies are making a comeback through new age thinking, weird spiritual semi cults too - like bipolarism as a solution for geleci and power dynamics and more new age dogmatic stuff (not the positive ones), or for lesbians even - be in the same square usually and even worst, and feminism is just going backwards especially with sm beuty standards and gen zs has nothing to contribute but very fake progressive waves leaning on their predecessors opinions . i think women are too comfortable with just enough- its *understood but a boomer . *understood cause of 10,000 years of oppression even inherent fatigue. we dont only have to grab our sit at the table- we need the tables at the top of the top and we need to be better human beens, help one another, connect different positive reforms with gender equality , and work much much harder.
Maybe it’s me but I’m still intrigued about her parasocial relationship with ‘Jules & Mimi’.
That whole storyline, like many on SATC, was insane
-C
@@thefinancialdiet She’d be running STAN Twitter
ya also her building boyfriend was perfect for her kinda - though no one really is that way... and when they broke his caricature to a womaniser- i was totally unreliable...
@@thefinancialdietor dvrs were just a new thing, and fun, and the same as when we all first were excited about streaming
The way I, sitting home alone watching this, started screaming “THE SUIT! THAT GD MF SUIT!!!!!” preceisely st the 03:00 mark of this podcast 😂😂😂😂