What got me interested in TFD back in 2018 was its contrast to the FIRE/crypto bros that dominated personal finance content. That brand of masculinity never resonated with me. Meanwhile, Chelsea offered a reasoned, slowed-down take on finance that took people's emotional relationship with money into account. I'm grateful to have had yall in my media diet to counteract the more broey financial content.
I also recommend Ben Felix for level headed and sensible financial content. Ben is more focused on the nitty gritty details of investing and economics while TFD is more about human nature, psychology, culture, societal systems etc. They complement each other really well I think.
Note that the FIRE lifestyle is a highway to lack of connection. Working too many hours to be highly paid, having no hobbies to meet people at, cutting all restaurant expenses so there is no decent place to meet up with new people and leaving the workforce at 40 to sit on the sofa by yourself.
The guys who listen to toxic male influencers say they don't ask women what they want or even listen to women because "you don't ask the fish how to catch it." 🙄
@@thefinancialdiet For real. I used to waste my time responding to those videos. I'd say the male influencer was giving terrible advice to men regarding women and how we think. I'd ask why they were listening to a man talking about what women want. The men would reply that women only THINK they know what they want, but they are fooling themselves or lying. And nearly every time, I'd get "you don't ask a fish how to catch it".
It was so sad. I knew a bright young man who had a lot of mental health problems and was unemployed because of the mental health problems. He used all his savings to buy a ticket to see Jordan Peterson because he genuinely believed that Peterson's words would help him.
uhm, no.. men have not been the providers and women the homemakers for millenia. This was a rather recent phenomenon and also limited to a specific class of people.
Exactly, most of human history is men, women, and their children all working around the home to grow food for the family. If men were leaving the house for work, that work was almost always war.
A lot of men base their intrinsic worth on how much money they earn. Money means nothing, it’s only valuable on so far as it is a means to an end but it’s not nor should it be the goal. If I wanted to make a lot of money I wouldn’t have gone into being an oil painter but I make a decent income and don’t want to throw myself out of a window at the end of the work week. Men need to realize their intrinsic value is separate from their monetary value. Some money is good but I have no desire to help the next Jeff Bezos
You clearly don’t have kids. Income doesn’t get to be about just making sure your bills are paid and that you can enjoy life when you’ve got to support children. You don’t see it as helping the next Jeff Bezos when it’s about helping make sure your kid can do activities.
@@NoelleTakestheSky They're talking about self-value in the sense of achievements and worthiness, not the basic need of providing for your family. Wanting more money to support your family is fine, in and of itself. Wanting more money because you feel that you're a failure in life if you're not rich is something else.
It’s not even money. One more thing I have found is, m4n bond with one another mainly about women- that he did this to her, that to her, and other ways of speaking poorly about all the women in their lives. Even recently there was an Korean issue of the Nth room controversy where guys even deep faked their moms and sisters. This type of bonding is shallow and will not last. And these types of men won’t ever get female companionship for the long hauls because of the way they act. And the cycle continues. Also, the aspect that a ma5n has to have more money, to be able to engage with more women is another aspect to it.
Thanks for this video. My early 20's were entirely dominated by stoic philosophy, "self help" masculine stuff and the like. Ironically or not the thing that helped me the most was meeting my now wife and actually living together with a woman. Having a kid and having to actually raise a child together and be there for the child with exclusive dedication further cemented how impossible and asinine the "focus solely on the self" is in masculinity literature. I view content for men coming from women very positively nowadays. The stuff on self help did have good bits here and there which I carried over to how I see things today, but actually and truly including a community in your life entails a much larger and complex view than those guys often portray. Humans really are not islands, and it was an important lesson to me outside of the masculinity bubble, to even learn that I *should* be asking for help and I *must* rely on others, as well as people *must* be able to rely on me beyond just providing wealth, both in work and personal life.
I thank the stars every night that I was born gay. I could never be in a heterosexual relationship my goodness! The gender roles, stereotypes, breadwinners, etc. would drive me crazy
This issue with the " man up" attitude is now being expected from women. Women then get chronic disease, endometriosis, fibromyalgia etc from autoimmune sickness caused by stress. But few care about the poverty this stress cause women with children, instead we needed to see the male lonlyness crisis to even begin to understand the stress all humans now live under causing everyone to be more lonly and tired and with less safe support systems.
Ya heard that fellas? Nothing more manly then standing next to your brothers and having the balls to make the rich and powerful pay their dues. UNIONS BBY!!! Because we are sick and tired of being sick and tired!
I don't know why so many men are obsessed with taking care of women. Let them do their own thing, and do your own thing. Have a girlfriend that has her own place.
It's not about taking care of her, which would be kind of sweet. Irl it translates to total dependance and control which allows him to be as abusive as he can without worrying about her leaving. Some of these guys think they have to conquer and break women, like it's a manly achievement to flex.
Men are actually the real dependents. Most women work a full time job and take care of others. But men want women to take care of them. They say woemn nag them but in reality they do it to women- for s4x, his food, his laundry, to tidy up the place he dirties, asking her to take care of his kids more than he himself does and so on. Also, men make fun of older women and say older women are in decline and no one wants them. But in reality, no one wants older men- to make him take his tablets, watch his diet, schedule his doctors appointments and go with him for visits, blood work reports and so on. And it is woemn who give end of life care to men and it is almost never vice versa. But men pretend that they don’t benefit from marriage.
Men are actually the real dependents. Most women work a full time job and take care of others. But men want women to take care of them. They say woemn nag them but in reality they do it to women- for s4x, his food, his laundry, to tidy up the place he dirties, asking her to take care of his kids more than he himself does and so on. Also, men make fun of older women and say older women are in decline and no one wants them. But in reality, no one wants older men- to make him take his tablets, watch his diet, schedule his doctors appointments and go with him for visits, blood work reports and so on. And it is woemn who give end of life care to men and it is almost never vice versa. But men pretend that they don’t benefit from marriage.
When we’re talking about “men” being conservative, we’re really talking about white men and when it comes to white men, they tend to only interact with other white men. Especially if they tend to work in trades or other professions that are largely male and who live in areas that are exclusively white.
That is an interesting hypothesis.. Do you have any resources that you could reference on this or is this just an observation? White men specifically in the USA seem to have a very rigid form of systemically toxic masculinity, i.e the subjugation of others to achieve economic goals and dominance etc. The socialization aspects of these idoleologies seems to be largely effecting young white males as well in my opinion. There is a very strange distance that americans keep from their boys they dont seem to encourage or respect love and effection or vulnerability in any way. Lots of people defy these generalizations obviously and especially in large cities but a huge population of the USA is still stuck to these definitions of masculinity if politics is any indication.
This isn't really true though. When you poll minority men on their BELIEFS they're often similarly conservative. They just don't vote red because they're smart enough to see the racism. But they're usually not very fussed about the sexism. Honestly it the republican party dropped the racism they'd see their support among non-white men sky rocket purely based on the misogyny alone lol. That's not an issue with minorities per se, but again, as per the topic of the video, an issue with toxic masculinity and the way boys and men are trained to always see women as adversaries and not partners.
@@handthefs8197 Thinking about a man who lives in suburban or rural America and who works in a male dominated profession… That man, if he’s single, could go weeks without a meaningful interaction with a woman.
The sugar study is just one example, but the bigger issue is consistent misrepresentation of scientific data and academic credentials as a means to sell men dubious supplements. He currently has about four different partnerships with supplement companies primarily marketed to men (including some of his own licensed ones). This article goes into a pretty fascinating deep dive: www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-health-and-nutrition/andrew-huberman-has-bad-case-supplement-brain -C
it's not a dichotomy. there's a wide range of lifestyles between eating Pizza Pockets™ for every meal and falling for an anti-intellectual, slick-talking disinformationist. Learning how to vet a source is an invaluable skill that a lot of people - even people otherwise seen as Smart like doctors and scientists - severely lack.
@@LonkinPork Right. And he doesn’t strike me as a slick, anti-intellectual, disinformationist in the least. My best guess of why he’s being lumped in with this ilk is that the word “fat” is in one of his book titles. But he’s been railing on the fact that added sugar in processed food is responsible for bad health long before any sort of internet toxic masculinity trend. I stop being a lefty when it asks me to dismiss medical findings that have been replicated in many studies. If people on the internet want to take everything too far and run daily marathons, that’s not the fault of doctors who are just pleading with people to eat less processed food.
Of all the doctors to hit for this, Robert lustig is probably the least harmful one. His studies are high quality, even if he sells supplements on the side. I think a better example would've been a quack doc who sells supplements as well
I love this!!! As a man, I've felt what she was talking about and other men just look at and comment that I'm lazy or something. I have a job, a masters and everything. I work hard. I just don't think its right that now it seems the standard is to work yourself around the clock to death whether it be for yourself or for you to provide for a family. Women that I've dated look at me weird too. Like the one income provider lifestyle is perfectly fine and it's not.
The idea of men being the sole provider in the home is not only as the video would say “a toxic idea” but it is also in contradiction with the married women’s rights act.
The heart of the controversy regarding the C-16 law in Canada was not the extension of protected class status to those who claim a gender identity, it was the opening of the door for adjudication that could bring legal penalties for anyone who refused to use a particular pronoun or otherwise refer to another in a way that contradicts their stated gender identity, which although not explicit in C-16, was made clear by C-16's reliance on the OHRC and OHRC explanations using key terms in its own materials. This was true to the extent that they had hearings wherein this very possibility was discussed at length. C-16 was/is a risk to liberal freedom, and the lefts failure to take this seriously puts the rise of Jordan Peterson completely on the shoulders of the left. That to this day it is constantly obfuscated as some version of, "Peterson didn't want gender identity to be protected" is irresponsible and dishonest.
Similar bills already prevent people from using racial slurs (or "refusing to use a particular racial terminology") regardless of their personal convictions. Is that a threat to liberal freedom?
This just makes me wish I had more guy friends. We all just need some close friends, man. Like, just someone to ask "Wanna go watch some hockey? We can shoot the shit. Or we can stay in and watch anime. Whatever." 😊
I make a good six figure salary, my wife earns nearly an equal salary, but for some reason I get to pay the mortgage and insurance, car etc. She spends hers mostly on bullshit so we're still always broke
For everyone saying ¨divorce¨ or ¨separate¨: if he does that, he will keep on paying those bills plus his new place and alimony and lawyers. And he will be broke.
Yeah that’s crazy. That paradigm doesn’t fit anymore. It should be whatever the couple agrees in or decides. If you want to be the breadwinner great, but if a guy isn’t the main income earner that shouldn’t be held against them
I guess I’m attracted to accomplishes guys that can lead and take responsibility for important decisions and not attracted to couch potato guys who can’t hold a job or don’t have a desire and ability to earn decent salary
no geniune emotions what you are saying is when men try to manipulate women by crying or showing "emotions" when she confront him about something he did or she set a boundary or she's about to leave we're not so stupid you know and why bring women into this? try to cry in front of your male friends! I've witnessed so many times men making fun of their male friends crying calling them "gay" so maybe fix the issues within you. also a note anger is also an emotion :)
@@nanomia I’m only saying what relates to me. The one time I cried in front of my girlfriend was when my grandfather died…since that day she treated me totally different..so where is the manipulation in that? 🤨
Men don’t ask women what they want in a man because it is often felt that women lack insight into what they actually like in a man. They will say that like one thing, but their behavior often contradicts this.
Don't hide behind weasely constructions like "it is often felt". Just say it outright - you think men know what women want better than women themselves. Which is male ego on full display.
@@saltycrunch oh I’m not hiding. I’m speaking for what I have seen in these groups and in my personal experience. I and many other men tend to notice a difference between women’s stated preferences vs their actual preferences in reality. I could only speculate as to why. Is it lack of insight or is it some sort of wide spread fear of stating their honest preferences. As a man I can only speculate. Or ask. What are your thoughts?
Men have shown contradictions. It goes both ways. That being said, it takes time to develop and really know what you are looking for and actually commit to it. If someone shows contradictions to saying what they want but show otherwise, then that is an obvious sign that person still needs to continue further into their own personal journey at looking inwards more than searching outwards. I think you need to take into consideration of the women you’re approaching rather than generalizing women, because everyone is at different points of their lives and at different levels of self development in reflection to what, how, and who they search for.
I think this goes more toward the fact that most people are immature. Just like she pointed out how women fall for MLMs. Confident and happy people don't fit her description of men and your description of women. She doesn't really get into the solution for raising consciousness, which is the hard part and the most helpful part
Woman as strictly homemaker wasn’t even a thing for more than a few blips in human history across cultures. Women have worked to provide for their families in most stages and at all but the highest levels of society. Even when we’re all living in small bands, women contributed to group survival at the same level as men. Heck, we even have evidence from certain sites that more calories were provided by women’s efforts than men’s.
Yep. The difference now is that women can be compensated for our labor. Prior to the integration of women in the workforce, specifically in jobs that were male-dominated, and prior to women being able to have our own checking and savings accounts, it wasn't unusual that a woman's paycheck was more her husband's than it was hers. So many people don't understand this isn't just a right for women to work outside the home issue, it's the fact that until about 50-60 years ago, women were not considered to be their own independent persons, prior to or after marriage. Women "belonged" to their fathers until they got married.
Same with thinking the "nuclear family" is normal. Like no. Families were multi generational. That was normal. Expecting one person to supply all the resources and one person to provide all the childcare is sick.
Yep. Pre-Industrial Revolution the women may have been home more, but they were still working! Many worked in their husband's business. Others had a home-based business of their own such as taking in washing & mending or selling homemade products such as cheese & beer. But this work doesn't get recognized by modern culture.
Men went broke because we all did! The economy has impacted us all, so much so that single (I.e., traditionally male) breadwinner families are unsustainable and very rare. Women are just getting on with the grind, but men feel like their role has been lost. When in actual fact, we've all lost
100%. Additionally, "male loneliness" and specifically white male entitlement has led to a mass shooting epidemic in the U.S. The entire country is experiencing a loneliness epidemic and economic instability, but only one side is shooting people (usually children) on a weekly basis. Women are going out and getting multiple low-paying jobs to support their children while their fathers run off to play video games, enjoy their p*rn addictions, and then complain online that they are victims. I'm not having it.
Women have been doing better as a group as young professionals. We are nearing a 2:1 college graduation rate for women and in many professions, women are earning the same/more than men as long as they don’t have children (a penalty that is hard to avoid in highly competitive professions) and the cost of childcare leads to the less earning spouse staying home. We should make childcare fully tax deductible and mandate parental leave (yes, make it mandatory!) to prioritize child welfare and equalize the workplace, but we haven’t.
I just recently ended a relationship with a guy who falls so easily into this rhetoric. He couldn't show an emotion if you held a gun to his head. He has severe PTSD and definitely shows signs of depression but doesn't believe it's real. He thinking if he works hard he can become rich through business bro schemes despite the fact that he is undocumented, has no real connections, and gave up all of his money for a failed business. I really hope that one day he learns to process his emotions and stop pushing away the people that care about him but GIRL... couldn't be me.
Yeah they think they lost because they can't control women anymore like you control children. We are too advanced for that now but they should have thought about that before they all started disowning there kids and abusing their wives they know why a lot of us dumped and divorced them because they wouldn't get any kind of therapy they thought red pill content would save them now at least half of them are bankrupt because of listening to fresh n fit. Those guys are from rich families were there daddies spoiled them that were the golden child because for them jail time equals house arrest but for a woman jail time equals real prison time. That's another reason women don't want to live with them anymore they can get us in trouble for the dumbest things just by playing the victim.
My husband has also unfortunately started to fall down the Joe Rogan/Huberman/Goggins trap. He was kind of into it before but ever since he got laid off about a year ago he’s dived in head first. It’s been very hard on me but this video did help me realize that perhaps this is his way of asserting his masculinity. I’m debating whether or not to show him this video. Hoping not all is lost.
I think one main thing really should be addressed here, it’s not that men are upset that women are “promiscuous”, and *that* being their sole reason for being upset about the current state of affairs, but many genuinely believe that women in the workforce not only “stole” careers that were rightfully theirs, but that women performing this labor and being *adequately compensated* (big factor here) for it caused the devaluation of wages. Of course this isn’t true due to the host of other factors (dissolving of unions, decline of marginal tax rates for the upper class etc) mentioned in the video, but none of that matters to them. If women can’t be forced out of jobs after getting married or being pregnant anymore, men view it as something that is “theirs” being stolen.
I'm also a woman who worked in a make dominated field and at one company had to deal with coworkers explicitly asking if I could afford x,y and z on my salary when we had the exact same position. They just assumed and relished in the fact that they made more. The thing was they didn't. My company actually got sued and had a big 3 firm act as a 3rd party to determine that female employees were being paid less and our salaries were normalized. I got 2 years of salary differential and got a report for 5 years on how my salary compared to those of my male coworkers who had the same role. The guys who bloated over my so called lower salary heard about the lawsuit and just assumed women continued to make less.
Exactly. And why do they feel that woman working the same job as them devalues wages? Because for them, it's a given that woman earn less and women's jobs are less desirable. It's so f*d up.
I think you need to study some economics before saying things. If the workforce doubles, the value of labor gets cut in half. Add in immigrations and offshoring, and the value of males labor just doesn't exist anymore. Yet they're still held to the same standard they were used to.
"I view others as lesser and I hide behind a wall of thorns, I dont know why Im so lonely" Side note: every conservative ideology consists of changing yourself rather than changing the system. Just endure suffering more!
Exactly. One more thing I have found is, m4n bond with one another mainly about women- that he did this to her, that to her, and other ways of speaking poorly about all the women in their lives. Even recently there was an Korean issue of the Nth room controversy where guys even deep faked their moms and sisters. This type of bonding is shallow and will not last. And these types of men won’t ever get female companionship for the long hauls because of the way they act. And the cycle continues.
@@manifest2203 I've been trying to help men for most of my life and overwhelmingly the only time they are supportive to other men is when they are hating on women. I keep telling them they need to support and be kinder to OTHER MEN and I just get the wall of "that's not how male relationships work" or ""you're just trying to make us into women", It is so, so frustrating because a major answer to the male loneliness epidemic is for men to be more supportive to other men WITHOUT needing to hate and degrade another group. It's so frustrating and I feel helpless to stop this nightmare as a woman. Don't even get me started about trying to get them to see a bloody therapist to deal with all the unhealed parental trauma that has led to this crap. As a woman, I WANT to help men, but because I'm a woman, my advice is automatically lesser and discarded even though I've been through a large amount of things men go through (suppressing emotions, having no emotional support with friends, extreme isolation, having society hate me [I'm disabled]). I've grown up with men, my friends through my entire life have been 85% men and I've personally observed the problematic behaviors and how they develop through every stage of life. But it doesn't matter outside of a small amount of men I've met and am still friends with because I'm a woman. They want women to fix the problem, but don't respect women enough to learn from them.
@@Here4TheHeckOfIt yes SKorea has the worlds lowest birth rate. I am a little bit interested in demography and I did some aelf study on it. And yes, these types of issues will surely exacerbate the issue. Imagine britthing and raising a s8on who acts like this. That would be the biggest tragedy a woman can go through.
Do y'all hate the manoshphere because it's the only place men aren't told they are evil and useless ? Like are you afraid of men with pride instead of internolised misandry 😂
You're right, men should just watch the view or other main stream misandry crap, I mean what self respecting man doesn't want to hear how useless he is 24-7
If it's a sincerely believed statement, then it definitely is worth at least a few brownie points. Calling women "chicks" though, like... How old are you, ten? There are a lot of ways of casually and _respectfully_ mentioning women, and this ain't it, chief.@@matthewcooper3218
I don't understand why you people hate the "manoshphere", do you just hate men with self respect and confidence ? I'm pretty sure it's the only place that doesn't blame men's problems on men, yet y'all still don't get it
So appreciated! I sincerely hope you believe that you are respected as a human, and it’s just as important that you find your personal value, which doesn’t solely come from the fact that you are a man, but does include your masculinity!
So we should say "Musk is listed as a founder of Tesla" bc he didn't found it, but he negotiated his name to be listed as a founder when he bought into the existing company.
As a man, this whole episode just makes me glad I go to therapy. I think it's definitely easy to fall for the traps of toxic male influencers when it looks like they have it all together, while the average person struggles. Great episode as always, Chelsea, even if it did raise my stress levels about the state of the world.
Yeah I feel like men who start to view gurus as their de facto new father figure then become incredibly defensive for no reason when opposing opinions are presented
@@elizabethswan5850 this applies equally to any parasocial relationships/pseudo-fandoms, across gender. but the reason human beings become defensive in such cases is that they’ve projected a part of their identity onto this figure, and so critique of the figure is psychologically felt as a hit to oneself (one’s identity, values).
My husband and I both work over full time in stressful careers. He is a high earner and the smartest person I know. I make quite a bit more than him and have since we have been together. We are a partnership, we don’t care who makes more etc. it’s OUR money and we both approach our finances in the same responsible fashion.
This is the exact same for me and my husband. We encourage each other to be better and to hustle (to a healthy degree of course). Alas most guys are brainwashed by an early age to always need to be providing and to feed that 'masculine' ego. It takes a lot of self reflection to part ways with that
@@carolineauch I think Chris Rock hit the nail on the head when he said “men are only loved on the condition that they provide something”. Society has always expected men to be providers and there is very little acceptance of men who aren’t working to support others. I doubt many women would find a man attractive who they had to provide for while he followed his passion projects, but the reverse is not the case.
@@cjmhallI would LOVE if my husband didn’t work full time. He would still be working taking care of the home, chores, etc. it would take so much off my plate and make our lives much more relaxed.
Glad I have a workaholic dad, who even worked 3 years longer after his official retirement. Was 35 years in the same company. He invented stuff, and while his boss owns houses and Porsches, my dad got a huge food basket for his last day of work as a Senior semiconductor Engineer and Project Lead. His boss even did not give a last raise 1 year before retirement to make him raise the public monthly retirement rate. Taught me as a kid an adult how to treat life and corporate cringe
From all these extra hours he spent he could have bought a house, I am not kidding. But on a social Aspect, my dad was an introvert and negotiation was a no-go for him. My mom even Managed to get him a raise through the phone, once, 20 years ago, when she in highest Anger called the Boss, she was so fed up 😂
the man should have left and found a better job. at the end of the day, you need to look after yourself and his best interest and not be terrified of change. That is on him.
Im a woman and I learned you do your job and go home. Dont do more or volunteer for more thinking it will get you somewhere. You can do it if you want, but not because you think you will get a raise or promotion. They will let you go just the same as a bad employee. This just happened to one of our star employees this week.
@@iequalasianin his Father’s Day they believed in workplace loyalty and job hoping was heavily looked down upon. It’s different now since millennials and gen z give back the same energy we are given.
@@ecclairmayo4153I’m also a woman in the workplace. I do more for more money. Not for free. People who do free work are asking to be exploited and burn out. If I’m not being offered more hours or overtime don’t even look my way.
Gotta be real, as a guy in this economy the worst part really is the culture within cis-male spaces. Like, the table stakes is that the economy sucks for literally everyone. But then, on top of that, so much of the media and marketing around being a guy is a twofold "Be a little asshole" and "Get paid or get out". Glad TFD is focusing on the influencers in that space, because that's really the unique aspect of this experience. Great take on where the gaps are in the male experience.
I love your videos. Congratulations on your 10 year. I can’t wait for the 20 year anniversary when we’re talking about the Gen Alpha spending habits lol🎉
Being a feminist means caring about boys and men too. The patriarchy imprisons men and women, boys and girls. I work fulltime and have a boy and a girl and I don't want this prison for either of my children or the toxic, malignant culture. Great video.
Same! I am the mother of a son. I want better for him. My feminism means I want him to grow up in a world where he can be respected and respectful, and also expect that from others.
A bit off topic, just on Jordan Peterson. After I watched a couple of his videos on depression, TH-cam algorithms flooded my "recommended" with similar stuff. I was shocked to find out that his whole family are now gurus! His daughter has podcast, and strongly advocates, among other things, for having kids early which causes visceral "oi, only a small minority can actually afford it" reaction in me. Same for his wife, making videos about importance of stay at home mom for child development- are these people for real?? Do they actually get views? Like, having kids early and staying at home is the pathway to poverty for most of the people on the planet, who are these gurus speaking too??
Wow, a little OT but I could have sworn his wife died and that was what sent him into that drug spiral that he had to go to Russia for some kind of fringe detox therapy for. Mandela strikes again!
There seems to be an idea in the culture right now that men (and women) worked so much harder in the past. So, if you are not successful, you just didn’t work as hard as your grandparents did. The idea that everyone was grinding in the past is ridiculous. My stay-at-home Grandma had a weekly house cleaner, for many meals served my grandfather Campbell’s soup, canned vegetables, and Wonder bread, had hobbies outside the home, and only raised one child. Grandpa had a desk job and had a yard man to mow the lawn and prune the trees and bushes. They weren’t rich, just middle class. Their house was modest by today's standards (2000 square feet, no fancy finishes, small yard). I’ve done heavier housework/yardwork than they ever did, and I’m disabled. I’ve had my disabilities my whole life. My parents had to sue our school district to get me mainstreamed. The childhood surgery bills took care of whatever extra money they had after that. I spent years looking for work before giving up. But my parents and I just didn't grind hard enough I guess. I live on benefits, cannot drive, and will never attain anything even close to the standard of living my grandparents had.
It's crazy to me how you will write an incredibly sexist comment and people like it. It's because of people like you and your selfishness and privilege that young men are having trouble. You are the problem, you are the privileged one. Your parents failed at raising you
Not to say celebrities are the standard but this just brings up actors like Michael Keaton and Rick moranis. Who left acting for a time or forever to be with their family. Now who knows what kind of spouse they are etc. but that's why they said they left acting. Michael Keaton said he left it for a while to raise his kids and be with his family. He said that in an actors guild table interview.
@@LonkinPork that's bc most hate their wives or having a family. It is something they think they should do in society. Many men ran back to the office after covid to escape the home lol
Unfortunately, many women want their men to be “success” machines because men are disproportionately responsible for maintaining economic status. Many women would rather see their man die on his horse than fall off it.
As a man, this episode means so much to me. I realized toxic masculinity got to me when at 21 I developed an hernia on my back killing myself on the gym because I wanted to be manly. Since then, I have been working to deconstruct the notion of masculinity and reconnect with exercise in a way that doesn't hurt me or kill me. We need men to know that our idea of masculinity comes from the idea that we stand strong when we repress and obey the mold. But we need to break the mold and be free to feel and free to develop a healthier relationship with our mind, body and others.
I think for a channel dedicated to financial literacy that targets those in the mid-20s and up, it's fine to ignore Tate. But I feel it's disingenuous to say most of his followers don't even believe him. You have lots of tween and teen boys who get interested in him and his lifestyle. To ignore him and say his followers don't even believe him ignores the fact there is a good chunk of gen-a who will become manosphere bro adults because they got drip-fed Tate in their teens.
I mean, not really. There’s no reason to fetishize Stoicism to begin with. It was a pretty brutal philosophy, but a LOT more skeptical and humorous than Holiday’s guru drivel.
I talk to my bff like 3-4 times a week, we've lived in different states since we were 18 amd we're 30 now. Conversations last from a 5 minute I need to rant before work/class to hours just hanging out in a phone call. She also talks to her college bff just as if not more frequently because they're only an hour a part now that she just moved. Almost every time we're on the phone her bf is like "you're on the phone" "yep with Brianna" "AGAIN?!". Yes, again its not weird we talk so often my guy, its weird you can't/won't make friends or put in effort to maintain and grow pre existing ones. If you haven't talked to your "best friend" in 5 years, probably not a best friend my guy.
@@matthewcooper3218 that's for men to figure out themselves. Women had to do it and organize to get basic human rights in the mid 20th century. Men need to curb their violent natures, pursue education or trades, stop being predatory towards women, learn how to be decent involved fathers and faithful husbands. Many men are doing all of this already. They can be role models for the ones who aren't.
Men are more likely to be exposed to COVID? Based on healthcare alone, I'm going to say that is not accurate. The front lines workforce in all hospitals are heavily female dominated. There is also service roles that are heavily female dominated that had very close exposure, flight attendants, grocery and retail clerks, hotel staff, ect.
Girl WHAT are you talking about? Up until very very recently the entire family worked lol. The men were not providing. The entire family down to the children were working. Not that I think we should go back to that ever. But this idea of one person providing is extremely modern. Just toss it out.
I think you're really onto something in the split between the working poor and the aspiring middle class. Many POC and wt poor families have never had the fantasty of the sole male breadwinner. You really can't talk about the financial manosphere stuff without getting into the race/immigration angle IMHO.
It is a perception of a very specific generational era from the early 20th century. Working families were overwhelmingly common until the late Industrial Revolution that made leisure a much more accessible hobby for many families, and during the World War eras, with many men being drafted and deployed, the economy and families in general adapted to the single-income lifestyle. America specifically was booming, so it was easier to achieve, but as that steam ran out and we balanced back to a more realistic economy, the single-income dream washed away.
I think she was moreso referencing the cultural notion. It is true that the idea of the “one income household” where dad works and mom stays home with the kids is not an ancient notion, especially as it relates to most people outside of the upper echelons of society. Most families worked at the family profession where the male was the figurehead, but everyone in the household worked and assisted in some capacity.
I recommend Prof G and HealthyGamerGG. Now that I wrote that, it looks like I have a fetish for the letter "G", but I swear those 2 guys are great role models for boys.
Not Dave Ramsey. HasanAbi is a political commentator with leftist views that aims to create understanding and equity for all people. Curses a lot though, probably not the best for your son.
15% of people cheating on their partner is an absurdly depressing statistic. By honestly, 5% also feels sad because it's the lowest rate?!?! Imagine 1 in 20 couples!
Not really. Your local walmart closes, you'll find another grocery store to shop at. Same deal with your spouse/girl/boyfriend, they stop putting in effort and making it worth it, you find it somewhere else. Love is a need not a want 🤷
15 percent is actually lower than the real number I suspect it's higher but they didn't get caught or they didn't admit it besides how they're getting these stats? just from my personal experience it's like 50 percent or higher
They would have to actually get laid to get STIs. There is a huge increase in the number of virgin men well into their 20s… and less and less people are having sex.
I LOVE Dr. Andrea Love. She calls out the BS with facts and receipts. She isn’t afraid to speak out against these predatory content creators spreading fallacies.
0:43 oof-even if Tate weren’t either lying or narcissistic (and court filings make me think it’s both), the only way anybody makes it to his age with “not a single negative interaction with {demographic category}” is by not having interactions with that category of person or by not realizing when the interactions were negative.
I do not understand that either. I am a wife who makes more than my husband. It did not have a negative impact on our marriage. I feel this is totally fine. I still love him 😂
Because society still presents full-time parenting as a mom’s responsibility to the point that dads are called babysitters, and still says a measure of a man is the size of his paycheck. In a small way, it makes slight sense-when a woman (biologically speaking, not gender identity) gives birth, she should have time off to recover. 100%. But this does mean that her career advancement will be put on hold. There’s no way around that at all. And it’s reasonable that employers will not want to put someone into a position where their responsibilities may get put on hold, especially when that may affect the livelihoods of others. Even if she’s paid the entire time she’s off, and reenters where she was, those who didn’t give birth will have continued moving on, and those people are more likely to be men. There is no way to split the birth and recovery aspect. So it’s seen as her job, and the money part is the man’s job. So when a man isn’t able to “do his part,” he may feel like a failure. If she gives birth, then he’s the at-home parent, “What, she gave birth AND is making the money? What do YOU do all day?” The actual parenting part is devalued. Then the woman is told she’s wearing the pants in the family. That phrase-pants in the family/house/relationship-needs to die.
I would honestly love being a tradhusband. Stay at home, look after my house kids and body, and cook for my lady. Unfortunately of course, the dark part is that the lady has to be independently wealthy for this to be able to happen.
Most women want a partner either at or above their level. Look at the dating statistics and what they seek in a partner. Not knocking just providing a counter viewpoint. We need to reimagine what it means to be a man and a women in todays society
So I was under the false impression that I was a man for the first 38 years of my life and it was really lonely. I would try to have real friendships and be called gay. One of the first changes that happened when I started openly living as a woman was the amount of maybe not friendship but solidarity other women showed me. I hated the fact when presenting as a man other women would (rightfully) be suspicious of me when I showed an interest in pursuing a friendship. Men can be dangerous, and I have seen men try to exploit a friendship in that manner.
I literally just finished a session with a client that burned to the ground in the pursuit of more money. I can't imagine how man who are being told seeking help makes them weak are doing right now. It's wild 😤
Well… the highest rate for ‘self unaliving’ is men +75 years old followed by men 25-44 years old. That’s where men who ‘avoid being weak’ end up. Men (in the US) commit suicde at a lower rate than women but that’s because they opt for more violent route… thus being more likely to ‘achieve’ it. Other than that, severe depression I.e men on a recliner rotting away with a cold one, higher rates of aggression/substance misuse which lead to smaller social circles and higher rates of liver, kidney, heart disease, etc. since even seeking help for their physical health is ‘showing weakness’. That’s how they’re doing.
@@chelseashurmantine8153 …it depends if there’s the appropriate help available… I think that both men and women turn to pseudoscience and con artists when the systems that purport to help them fail
@@45.N.45let’s not pretend any of us live in a system that makes getting mental health care affordable or easy. Or that therapy is really all that effective if your problems are practical. I’m a guy. I’ve gone to therapy. You know what I got? Advice to meditate, some SSRIs, not so subtly called fat, and told that I should follow my passions. And this was multiple different people. I’m more than a little sick of being told not to isolate by a world that doesn’t think I have any dignity unless I consume or earn.
This was so interesting, Chelsea and team! Thank you for putting words into a phenomenon I’ve “felt” with finance bro influencers but haven’t quite found how to describe myself. I am a bit torn on the individualistic solutions. As a healthcare provider who also parented young kids throughout COVID, it really felt like we were ignored by the system and therefore had to “take matters into our own hands”. Half of society didn’t believe in Covid, hospital admin told us we were essential and yet we are not valued as such (from pay, from PPE), dropping the kids off at daycare esp in the early days when exposure risks were unclear while we go into the ICU and there’s no support if any of the kids need to stay home to quarantine, and we were “too well off” to get any childcare help from the govt. There’s a whole phenomenon of healthcare people feeling this way, and we’ve learned the system isn’t there for us. All that to say.. I would love a deep dive on healthcare folks burning out, and how that can badly impact society at large.
One more thing I have found is, m4n bond with one another mainly about women- that he did this to her, that to her, and other ways of speaking poorly about all the women in their lives. Even recently there was an Korean issue of the Nth room controversy where guys even deep faked their moms and sisters. This type of bonding is shallow and will not last. And these types of men won’t ever get female companionship for the long hauls because of the way they act. And the cycle continues.
I mean, it's nice to hear that a female-centric podcast will even discuss male issues, but this video doesn't seem very constructive for men, honestly. As a man who has never subscribed to the mannosphere but certainly identifies with the struggles of being a PERSON trying to make it in modern society, it's good to hear that many things men do or try to do are part of toxic masculinity, but where are the actual suggestions on what we can be doing? To summarize some of the main points, in the video you have stated: - trying to climb the corporate ladder is toxic masculinity, so I can't do that, but wait, deferring to my spouse to be the breadwinner is also not acceptable because apparently I am more likely to cheat, so also can't do that! - but meanwhile, trying to improve work/life balance by making my job more efficient is also not good because any attempts at timesaving would end up exploiting somebody else, so can't do that! - also meanwhile, part of toxic masculinity is the lack of personal development and hobbies, but if I try to pursue hobbies, that leaves my spouse neglected or left to take care of the house/kids, so can't do that either! - and let's say I try to achieve wealth through investments to keep me from throwing all my hours into my job, that is also highly unlikely to work, so might as well not try that either! - maybe I could at least try to be physically in better shape. well, apparently that is also toxic because men caring about their physical condition means they are subscribing to some toxic competitive ideology, so better not do that either. - and self improvement in general? that is apparently also part of age-old masculine ideals (as if women never try to improve themselves), so can't do that either! so at the end of the hour long video, I am left knowing a whole bunch of things NOT to do to try to improve my situation, but Chelsea hasn't really given me any constructive ideas, well, maybe except go to therapy, which I have already been doing. This is actually not unlike the female-targeted videos from this channel, where a lot of focus is placed on the problems, but not many ideas on how to solve them or what can be done instead. Is the point of the channel to encourage everyone regardless of gender to just give up in life? I do wonder.
This is great. I am exasperated by all this and I am pessimistic that young men will pivot even as it is obvious their life satisfaction worsens when they immerse themselves in these echo chambers.
Same, this is one of the most depressing topics for me. Manosphere giving their listeners simplistic explanations for men's unhappiness (e.g. it's because feminism that you struggle financially right now, dear adolescent boy); young boys being targeted, drawn into extremely negative vision of the world or women BEFORE they actually have any real life experience of it. I'm horrified all this is firmly in the mainstream now.
This might sound like simple advice, but if you are a man and you do feel loneliness and a lack of connection to others, there are two great things you can do, in my experience. Get yourself a dog and volunteer in your community. These things create healthy routines, make sure you are getting out and interacting with society, help expand your social circle, and help to provide a sense of purpose that I know a lot of men feel like they’re missing in your life. And that dog will give you unconditional love, and that feels amazing.
Bring Stephanie Janis Stiefel on the show. She changed my life Financially I managed to grow a nest egg of around 120k to over a Million. I'm especially grateful to Stephanie Janis Stiefel, for her expertise and exposure to different areas of the market.
I know this lady you just mentioned. Stephanie Janis Stiefel is a portfolio manager and investment advisor. She gained recognition as a former employee at Goldman Sachs; a renowned investor she is. Stephanie Janis Stiefel has demonstrated expertise in investment strategies and has been involved in managing portfolios and providing guidance to clients.
The supposed expectation for a woman to "take care of the household no matter what" is just as toxic an idea to women as the "I must be a breadwinner for my family" idea is to men. I fear both were subtly endorsed as truisms by the content of the video itself...
The individual and society perspective of masculinity needs to update to modern society. And US modern society needs to drastically change to support a healthy community. To survive should be extremely easy and be getting easier, rather US society has only gotten more difficult to survive let alone thriving. Without creating more free time for people and creating space to create community we can't decrease the epidemic of loneliness and isolation.
Idk, so far it seems like the statistics show more and more men opting out of society. The number of men who have no friends, no sex, and no job is steady increasing, and I don't think we have any strategies to stop it.
These men don’t WANT the system to change. They just want to be the ones at the top. They cope by believing they can get there. But if there is no one for them to step on, they don’t want it
10:18 I would disagree with the assertion that the historical male role was "the provider" solely because the common usage of that word has changed. 700 million people live on less than $2 a day. You may say "how is that possible"... the answer is, it's not, official figures just don't count the informal economy which skews heavily female. The 50s-70s were a historically unique era. Inventions eliminated household labor, post war economy has material excess. During those 20 years, the man was the provider. Before that point, women were doing A LOT of work that directly provided for the family (unless the woman was from a wealthy family). We are seeing a shift back. The labor of two adults is now required to sustain a family. Basically: The 50s-70s was a completely unique historical period. We also picked up a lot of bad habits, one of which is gender. The vast array of gendered rules/standards/guidelines is clinically insane and was solely an aristocratic thing until the 50s. Then we started living like aristocrats and adopted the gender nonsense too. In short: The male breadwinner was a concept that only existed from 1950 to 1970 & for some reason our society decided to normalize all the weird things we were doing during that period and just pretend like we had always done things that way.
I make around 63% of the household income. I guess I’d be considered a “breadwinner”. Thankfully, we share one pot of money. I wouldn’t feel intimidated if she was the breadwinner. Looking forward to this episode. I see some real interesting characters on the thumbnail.
I feel like the realities of being born into the proletariat has forced me to "grind" and overwork myself more than traditional gender roles and the need to be a breadwinner. My class status has made me being the breadwinner the NECESSITY rather than my gender status and internalized views of masculinity making me WANT to be a breadwinner. I have been told this is my own internalized toxic masculinity by gender studies people which may well be true. I still think capital is the force crushing men and women and every gender rather than any gender imposing oppresion on anothed, or even themselves.
You're doing exactly what Ryan Holiday is doing with your TH-cam channel, but at least his work has wisdom, and he's not getting views for smearing other content creators.
I have a very young son, and my prayer is that things change before he is old enough to internalize that his brand of being a boy and a man will not be valuable unless he fits a toxic norm. I want mentally, physically, and emotionally healthy masculinity with respect for all people in a world full of men and women to be the norm for him!
That is pretty easy just make sure you and the people around you and your family do those things. I have 4 boys and that is one of the biggest things I have instilled in them never be around people you wouldn't want to be like. Who you hang round and are your friends makes a really big impact on the kind of person you are and the life you will lead.
@@krystelhardesty9960 That's why men are leaving dating and society. Too much toxic femininity. I wish your sons the best of luck. A woman can never teach a boy how to be a man.
@@genevalawrence801 yes, probably the biggest ways to influence that is to model that behavior with your husband, and, more importantly to find a community that shares those values
Had to pause to comment after hearing that the model with male providers and female homemakers has been around "for millennia". This is, in my understanding, a pretty dangerous myth. For most of history, we've lived in agrarian societies where there are gendered chores, but both men and women are hard working and busy around their farms to make ends meet. Then with industrialisation, wage labour becomes more important, but for the working class this was still something done by both men, women and often children. (I also live in a country that got industrualised in the late 1800s, so most people's family histories seem to contain maybe one or two generations of housewifes, but usually not more). The male provider, female homemaker combination seems to be mostly a middle-class phenomenon and something that's not been around for more than maybe 100-200 years, with a peak in the 1900s. The upper classes have usually had different systems (where neither of them work, nor take care of their own children). There's also a lot of bias in historical sources and ways to make working women invisible, such as listing men with a profession and women as their wives, despite these women working alongside their husbands. So, did we really live well in single-income families for most of history, or isn't this mostly a 1900s phenomenon?
Yes yes. Finally someone say it. All this is a Psy-opp to simp for Billionaires. We end up with broken men simping for billionaires
This world has owners. Classifying men's drive for self-improvement as something negative won't change it.
@@matthewcooper3218😂😂😂
@@danielromerosol4158 and the grossest billionaires like Thiel and Musk.
@@karenandrews4224 You don't know what you are talking about. No one simps for Theil or Musk karen.
@@karenandrews4224 who simps for them?
What got me interested in TFD back in 2018 was its contrast to the FIRE/crypto bros that dominated personal finance content. That brand of masculinity never resonated with me. Meanwhile, Chelsea offered a reasoned, slowed-down take on finance that took people's emotional relationship with money into account. I'm grateful to have had yall in my media diet to counteract the more broey financial content.
Thank you! Grateful to have you
-C
The Financial Diet and The Plain Bagel are the two chill level headed finance channels I go to in contrast to the crazy crypto finance bro culture.
I also recommend Ben Felix for level headed and sensible financial content. Ben is more focused on the nitty gritty details of investing and economics while TFD is more about human nature, psychology, culture, societal systems etc. They complement each other really well I think.
Note that the FIRE lifestyle is a highway to lack of connection. Working too many hours to be highly paid, having no hobbies to meet people at, cutting all restaurant expenses so there is no decent place to meet up with new people and leaving the workforce at 40 to sit on the sofa by yourself.
it helps being a leftist
The guys who listen to toxic male influencers say they don't ask women what they want or even listen to women because "you don't ask the fish how to catch it." 🙄
lmao WHAT
"A key that unlocks a man a fish teaches many locks but a fish that aims for the highest dragon"
-Joranfit tatefreshersonchuck
@@thefinancialdiet For real. I used to waste my time responding to those videos. I'd say the male influencer was giving terrible advice to men regarding women and how we think.
I'd ask why they were listening to a man talking about what women want. The men would reply that women only THINK they know what they want, but they are fooling themselves or lying. And nearly every time, I'd get "you don't ask a fish how to catch it".
Okay but wouldn't that also mean that all women are desperately trying to avoid them because no fish ever wants to be caught
so we run away from 'predators' trying to catch us 🥰
It was so sad. I knew a bright young man who had a lot of mental health problems and was unemployed because of the mental health problems. He used all his savings to buy a ticket to see Jordan Peterson because he genuinely believed that Peterson's words would help him.
:(
Only in the US are we supposed to see that as a valid choice, not as Peterson selling a scam.
Another manifestation of the mostly American mindset of "I don't have to be an adult and work the problem. I can just buy my way to the solution."
I want to feel bad for laughing at this
That is sad. They should know by now that the Patriarchy hurts them, too.
uhm, no.. men have not been the providers and women the homemakers for millenia. This was a rather recent phenomenon and also limited to a specific class of people.
Exactly. Why people not talk more about that?
@@r456mjonBecause Americans are historically illiterate. Sneering at the humanities for half a century has consequences.
Exactly, most of human history is men, women, and their children all working around the home to grow food for the family. If men were leaving the house for work, that work was almost always war.
A lot of men base their intrinsic worth on how much money they earn. Money means nothing, it’s only valuable on so far as it is a means to an end but it’s not nor should it be the goal. If I wanted to make a lot of money I wouldn’t have gone into being an oil painter but I make a decent income and don’t want to throw myself out of a window at the end of the work week.
Men need to realize their intrinsic value is separate from their monetary value. Some money is good but I have no desire to help the next Jeff Bezos
Yeah life is about relationships so it's pretty sad to yoke onesself to something as shallow as money.
You clearly don’t have kids. Income doesn’t get to be about just making sure your bills are paid and that you can enjoy life when you’ve got to support children. You don’t see it as helping the next Jeff Bezos when it’s about helping make sure your kid can do activities.
@@NoelleTakestheSky They're talking about self-value in the sense of achievements and worthiness, not the basic need of providing for your family. Wanting more money to support your family is fine, in and of itself. Wanting more money because you feel that you're a failure in life if you're not rich is something else.
It’s not even money. One more thing I have found is, m4n bond with one another mainly about women- that he did this to her, that to her, and other ways of speaking poorly about all the women in their lives. Even recently there was an Korean issue of the Nth room controversy where guys even deep faked their moms and sisters. This type of bonding is shallow and will not last. And these types of men won’t ever get female companionship for the long hauls because of the way they act. And the cycle continues. Also, the aspect that a ma5n has to have more money, to be able to engage with more women is another aspect to it.
@@NoelleTakestheSky I’m in the top 15 percent of US income earners and I have HAD kids. You don’t know anything about me
“a baby on one boob, a man on the other” 😂😭☠️
We don’t want to engage in sexist stereotypes, but here is one!
Sounds gross.
Oh we are so back 🎉
Yes we are!
did they ever leave tho
@@thefinancialdiet No, you nosedived. You made a misandrist hit piece.
Thanks for this video. My early 20's were entirely dominated by stoic philosophy, "self help" masculine stuff and the like. Ironically or not the thing that helped me the most was meeting my now wife and actually living together with a woman. Having a kid and having to actually raise a child together and be there for the child with exclusive dedication further cemented how impossible and asinine the "focus solely on the self" is in masculinity literature. I view content for men coming from women very positively nowadays.
The stuff on self help did have good bits here and there which I carried over to how I see things today, but actually and truly including a community in your life entails a much larger and complex view than those guys often portray. Humans really are not islands, and it was an important lesson to me outside of the masculinity bubble, to even learn that I *should* be asking for help and I *must* rely on others, as well as people *must* be able to rely on me beyond just providing wealth, both in work and personal life.
I thank the stars every night that I was born gay. I could never be in a heterosexual relationship my goodness! The gender roles, stereotypes, breadwinners, etc. would drive me crazy
Lucky duck.
The easily-bruised male ego is no joke. Women have to walk on eggshells.
Real shit, you just get to sidestep a lot of bs
I feel you. Don't get me wrong, we certainly have our own issues, but this sigma male BS makes my skin crawl. Women, on behalf of men, sorry....
No one is born gay. And I call CAP. Many same sex relationships have their own toxic issues.
This issue with the " man up" attitude is now being expected from women. Women then get chronic disease, endometriosis, fibromyalgia etc from autoimmune sickness caused by stress. But few care about the poverty this stress cause women with children, instead we needed to see the male lonlyness crisis to even begin to understand the stress all humans now live under causing everyone to be more lonly and tired and with less safe support systems.
Yeah, it’s awesome being a poor guy.
Ya heard that fellas? Nothing more manly then standing next to your brothers and having the balls to make the rich and powerful pay their dues. UNIONS BBY!!! Because we are sick and tired of being sick and tired!
Unsurprisingly, you have missed the point. Again 😂
I think he got the point. He probably just loves unions as much as I do. And i do get wet for a delicious little union.
Never stop what you are doing Chelsea
I don't know why so many men are obsessed with taking care of women. Let them do their own thing, and do your own thing. Have a girlfriend that has her own place.
It's not about taking care of her, which would be kind of sweet. Irl it translates to total dependance and control which allows him to be as abusive as he can without worrying about her leaving. Some of these guys think they have to conquer and break women, like it's a manly achievement to flex.
why have gf at all? just be on your own leave us alone y'all are just a burden
Men are actually the real dependents. Most women work a full time job and take care of others. But men want women to take care of them. They say woemn nag them but in reality they do it to women- for s4x, his food, his laundry, to tidy up the place he dirties, asking her to take care of his kids more than he himself does and so on.
Also, men make fun of older women and say older women are in decline and no one wants them. But in reality, no one wants older men- to make him take his tablets, watch his diet, schedule his doctors appointments and go with him for visits, blood work reports and so on. And it is woemn who give end of life care to men and it is almost never vice versa. But men pretend that they don’t benefit from marriage.
Men are actually the real dependents. Most women work a full time job and take care of others. But men want women to take care of them. They say woemn nag them but in reality they do it to women- for s4x, his food, his laundry, to tidy up the place he dirties, asking her to take care of his kids more than he himself does and so on.
Also, men make fun of older women and say older women are in decline and no one wants them. But in reality, no one wants older men- to make him take his tablets, watch his diet, schedule his doctors appointments and go with him for visits, blood work reports and so on. And it is woemn who give end of life care to men and it is almost never vice versa. But men pretend that they don’t benefit from marriage.
@@nanomia "Every man I've ever had in my life was a disappointment or let me down in one way or another so every man must be that way" Fixed it for ya
When we’re talking about “men” being conservative, we’re really talking about white men and when it comes to white men, they tend to only interact with other white men.
Especially if they tend to work in trades or other professions that are largely male and who live in areas that are exclusively white.
That is an interesting hypothesis.. Do you have any resources that you could reference on this or is this just an observation? White men specifically in the USA seem to have a very rigid form of systemically toxic masculinity, i.e the subjugation of others to achieve economic goals and dominance etc. The socialization aspects of these idoleologies seems to be largely effecting young white males as well in my opinion. There is a very strange distance that americans keep from their boys they dont seem to encourage or respect love and effection or vulnerability in any way. Lots of people defy these generalizations obviously and especially in large cities but a huge population of the USA is still stuck to these definitions of masculinity if politics is any indication.
This isn't really true though. When you poll minority men on their BELIEFS they're often similarly conservative. They just don't vote red because they're smart enough to see the racism. But they're usually not very fussed about the sexism. Honestly it the republican party dropped the racism they'd see their support among non-white men sky rocket purely based on the misogyny alone lol. That's not an issue with minorities per se, but again, as per the topic of the video, an issue with toxic masculinity and the way boys and men are trained to always see women as adversaries and not partners.
@@handthefs8197 Thinking about a man who lives in suburban or rural America and who works in a male dominated profession…
That man, if he’s single, could go weeks without a meaningful interaction with a woman.
The race part... Nah. Men of all backgrounds tend to be more conservative.
- J
@@chillin5703 tend to be more conservative sure but that doesn’t mean they’re on the whole conservative.
This was absolutely fantastic
THE CROSSOVER WITH DR NEIL THOOOO
Everything that came out of his mouth was either false, a half-truth, or a straight-up lie.
@@matthewcooper3218 do you have 2 or 3 close friends you trust with your life? I think you need them
Dr. Robert Lustig really caught some strays. The link between sugar, ultra processed food, and negative health outcomes is not fringe “biohacking.”
The sugar study is just one example, but the bigger issue is consistent misrepresentation of scientific data and academic credentials as a means to sell men dubious supplements. He currently has about four different partnerships with supplement companies primarily marketed to men (including some of his own licensed ones). This article goes into a pretty fascinating deep dive: www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-health-and-nutrition/andrew-huberman-has-bad-case-supplement-brain
-C
it's not a dichotomy. there's a wide range of lifestyles between eating Pizza Pockets™ for every meal and falling for an anti-intellectual, slick-talking disinformationist.
Learning how to vet a source is an invaluable skill that a lot of people - even people otherwise seen as Smart like doctors and scientists - severely lack.
@@LonkinPork Right. And he doesn’t strike me as a slick, anti-intellectual, disinformationist in the least. My best guess of why he’s being lumped in with this ilk is that the word “fat” is in one of his book titles. But he’s been railing on the fact that added sugar in processed food is responsible for bad health long before any sort of internet toxic masculinity trend. I stop being a lefty when it asks me to dismiss medical findings that have been replicated in many studies. If people on the internet want to take everything too far and run daily marathons, that’s not the fault of doctors who are just pleading with people to eat less processed food.
Of all the doctors to hit for this, Robert lustig is probably the least harmful one. His studies are high quality, even if he sells supplements on the side. I think a better example would've been a quack doc who sells supplements as well
I love this!!! As a man, I've felt what she was talking about and other men just look at and comment that I'm lazy or something. I have a job, a masters and everything. I work hard. I just don't think its right that now it seems the standard is to work yourself around the clock to death whether it be for yourself or for you to provide for a family. Women that I've dated look at me weird too. Like the one income provider lifestyle is perfectly fine and it's not.
Oh! I follow Neil on TikTok. Good to know I’m on the right side of masculine social theory
Hell yeah! Neil is great.
just bathed with my son, had a beer, now watch this in bed while I wait on my partner. life could be good!
Keyword "partner" what is this a police department? There's labels for a reason, use them appropriately.
@@user-wc5lw7ps6h1
sorry what do you mean? the difference of calling her wife of partner or girlfriend?
I think labels are stupid.
The idea of men being the sole provider in the home is not only as the video would say “a toxic idea” but it is also in contradiction with the married women’s rights act.
The heart of the controversy regarding the C-16 law in Canada was not the extension of protected class status to those who claim a gender identity, it was the opening of the door for adjudication that could bring legal penalties for anyone who refused to use a particular pronoun or otherwise refer to another in a way that contradicts their stated gender identity, which although not explicit in C-16, was made clear by C-16's reliance on the OHRC and OHRC explanations using key terms in its own materials. This was true to the extent that they had hearings wherein this very possibility was discussed at length. C-16 was/is a risk to liberal freedom, and the lefts failure to take this seriously puts the rise of Jordan Peterson completely on the shoulders of the left. That to this day it is constantly obfuscated as some version of, "Peterson didn't want gender identity to be protected" is irresponsible and dishonest.
Similar bills already prevent people from using racial slurs (or "refusing to use a particular racial terminology") regardless of their personal convictions. Is that a threat to liberal freedom?
This just makes me wish I had more guy friends. We all just need some close friends, man. Like, just someone to ask "Wanna go watch some hockey? We can shoot the shit. Or we can stay in and watch anime. Whatever." 😊
I make a good six figure salary, my wife earns nearly an equal salary, but for some reason I get to pay the mortgage and insurance, car etc. She spends hers mostly on bullshit so we're still always broke
sounds like you need to have a serious discussion with her
Divorce her!!! 😂😂😂 jk
and why do you want this?
you can bust separate right?
For everyone saying ¨divorce¨ or ¨separate¨: if he does that, he will keep on paying those bills plus his new place and alimony and lawyers. And he will be broke.
That's not an equitable distribution of bills.
I’m old school, man should the a bread winner for the most part and woman can work as she pleases but it should be agreed on both ends of course
Yeah that’s crazy. That paradigm doesn’t fit anymore. It should be whatever the couple agrees in or decides. If you want to be the breadwinner great, but if a guy isn’t the main income earner that shouldn’t be held against them
Why is this important to you?
I guess I’m attracted to accomplishes guys that can lead and take responsibility for important decisions and not attracted to couch potato guys who can’t hold a job or don’t have a desire and ability to earn decent salary
@@lenajazuk4231what do you bring to the table? do you think your desires are reasonable?
@@easypeasylemonsqueezy4 yes
When men open up and show emotions. Women will always throw it back in your face or look at you as weak
no geniune emotions what you are saying is when men try to manipulate women by crying or showing "emotions" when she confront him about something he did or she set a boundary or she's about to leave we're not so stupid you know and why bring women into this? try to cry in front of your male friends! I've witnessed so many times men making fun of their male friends crying calling them "gay" so maybe fix the issues within you. also a note anger is also an emotion :)
@@nanomia I’m only saying what relates to me. The one time I cried in front of my girlfriend was when my grandfather died…since that day she treated me totally different..so where is the manipulation in that? 🤨
Yessir. Stay hard brother.
@@user-wc5lw7ps6h1 ain’t shed a tear in front of a female since and never will again 💯
@@WhoIsRex_Your girlfriend does not represent the other 3.95 billion women in the world.
Men don’t ask women what they want in a man because it is often felt that women lack insight into what they actually like in a man.
They will say that like one thing, but their behavior often contradicts this.
Don't hide behind weasely constructions like "it is often felt". Just say it outright - you think men know what women want better than women themselves. Which is male ego on full display.
@@saltycrunch oh I’m not hiding. I’m speaking for what I have seen in these groups and in my personal experience.
I and many other men tend to notice a difference between women’s stated preferences vs their actual preferences in reality.
I could only speculate as to why. Is it lack of insight or is it some sort of wide spread fear of stating their honest preferences.
As a man I can only speculate. Or ask. What are your thoughts?
Men have shown contradictions. It goes both ways. That being said, it takes time to develop and really know what you are looking for and actually commit to it. If someone shows contradictions to saying what they want but show otherwise, then that is an obvious sign that person still needs to continue further into their own personal journey at looking inwards more than searching outwards. I think you need to take into consideration of the women you’re approaching rather than generalizing women, because everyone is at different points of their lives and at different levels of self development in reflection to what, how, and who they search for.
@@Charlene_____ this is very true
I think this goes more toward the fact that most people are immature. Just like she pointed out how women fall for MLMs. Confident and happy people don't fit her description of men and your description of women. She doesn't really get into the solution for raising consciousness, which is the hard part and the most helpful part
Great essay Chelsea and team so insightful 👏 Also great to include Prof Neil and a stitch to Mel Hamlett
Woman as strictly homemaker wasn’t even a thing for more than a few blips in human history across cultures. Women have worked to provide for their families in most stages and at all but the highest levels of society. Even when we’re all living in small bands, women contributed to group survival at the same level as men. Heck, we even have evidence from certain sites that more calories were provided by women’s efforts than men’s.
Yep. The difference now is that women can be compensated for our labor. Prior to the integration of women in the workforce, specifically in jobs that were male-dominated, and prior to women being able to have our own checking and savings accounts, it wasn't unusual that a woman's paycheck was more her husband's than it was hers. So many people don't understand this isn't just a right for women to work outside the home issue, it's the fact that until about 50-60 years ago, women were not considered to be their own independent persons, prior to or after marriage. Women "belonged" to their fathers until they got married.
Same with thinking the "nuclear family" is normal.
Like no. Families were multi generational. That was normal. Expecting one person to supply all the resources and one person to provide all the childcare is sick.
Yep. Pre-Industrial Revolution the women may have been home more, but they were still working! Many worked in their husband's business. Others had a home-based business of their own such as taking in washing & mending or selling homemade products such as cheese & beer. But this work doesn't get recognized by modern culture.
Men went broke due in part to misandrist workplace discrimination, same thing in uni and schools
Yes. At every time in history, poor women always worked.
To be fair, Dave Ramsey would tell a 4 year old to get up and work if they were in debt😂
I've heard Dave tell people to give up a guaranteed, immediate 100% ROI in favor of paying down a 2% interest loan.
@@sonicpsycho13even his debt payment strategy is lacking compared to the debt avalanche.
87th Rule of Acquisition "Exploitation begins at home!"
😂
enjoy your cats
Men went broke because we all did! The economy has impacted us all, so much so that single (I.e., traditionally male) breadwinner families are unsustainable and very rare. Women are just getting on with the grind, but men feel like their role has been lost. When in actual fact, we've all lost
Well we haven’t all lost….turns out the top 0.1% has like quadrupled their quadrillions….lol 😅
Yep but women have more emotion maturity
100%. Additionally, "male loneliness" and specifically white male entitlement has led to a mass shooting epidemic in the U.S. The entire country is experiencing a loneliness epidemic and economic instability, but only one side is shooting people (usually children) on a weekly basis. Women are going out and getting multiple low-paying jobs to support their children while their fathers run off to play video games, enjoy their p*rn addictions, and then complain online that they are victims. I'm not having it.
@@INAVACLNot really
Women have been doing better as a group as young professionals. We are nearing a 2:1 college graduation rate for women and in many professions, women are earning the same/more than men as long as they don’t have children (a penalty that is hard to avoid in highly competitive professions) and the cost of childcare leads to the less earning spouse staying home. We should make childcare fully tax deductible and mandate parental leave (yes, make it mandatory!) to prioritize child welfare and equalize the workplace, but we haven’t.
I just recently ended a relationship with a guy who falls so easily into this rhetoric. He couldn't show an emotion if you held a gun to his head. He has severe PTSD and definitely shows signs of depression but doesn't believe it's real. He thinking if he works hard he can become rich through business bro schemes despite the fact that he is undocumented, has no real connections, and gave up all of his money for a failed business. I really hope that one day he learns to process his emotions and stop pushing away the people that care about him but GIRL... couldn't be me.
Yeah they think they lost because they can't control women anymore like you control children. We are too advanced for that now but they should have thought about that before they all started disowning there kids and abusing their wives they know why a lot of us dumped and divorced them because they wouldn't get any kind of therapy they thought red pill content would save them now at least half of them are bankrupt because of listening to fresh n fit. Those guys are from rich families were there daddies spoiled them that were the golden child because for them jail time equals house arrest but for a woman jail time equals real prison time. That's another reason women don't want to live with them anymore they can get us in trouble for the dumbest things just by playing the victim.
Why would you want a relationship with an illegal alien?
💯💯💯 very relatable. Sounds like my ex husband 🤦🏻♀️
My husband has also unfortunately started to fall down the Joe Rogan/Huberman/Goggins trap. He was kind of into it before but ever since he got laid off about a year ago he’s dived in head first. It’s been very hard on me but this video did help me realize that perhaps this is his way of asserting his masculinity. I’m debating whether or not to show him this video. Hoping not all is lost.
@@WishingThePanda why would you have a relationship with an illegal alien?
Lol "montage of men selling courses to other men. It's giving 'hey girl' or whatever they say when they start a DM"
Hey hun! lol
MLM scheme, you're so right
Men went broke due in part to misandrist workplace discrimination, same thing in uni and schools
hey girl
I think one main thing really should be addressed here, it’s not that men are upset that women are “promiscuous”, and *that* being their sole reason for being upset about the current state of affairs, but many genuinely believe that women in the workforce not only “stole” careers that were rightfully theirs, but that women performing this labor and being *adequately compensated* (big factor here) for it caused the devaluation of wages. Of course this isn’t true due to the host of other factors (dissolving of unions, decline of marginal tax rates for the upper class etc) mentioned in the video, but none of that matters to them. If women can’t be forced out of jobs after getting married or being pregnant anymore, men view it as something that is “theirs” being stolen.
I have heard this talking point too. They are so confused and in denial on multiple levels.
As a woman who has been in a male dominated industries and spaces, THIS is one of the most terrifying aspects.
I'm also a woman who worked in a make dominated field and at one company had to deal with coworkers explicitly asking if I could afford x,y and z on my salary when we had the exact same position. They just assumed and relished in the fact that they made more. The thing was they didn't. My company actually got sued and had a big 3 firm act as a 3rd party to determine that female employees were being paid less and our salaries were normalized. I got 2 years of salary differential and got a report for 5 years on how my salary compared to those of my male coworkers who had the same role. The guys who bloated over my so called lower salary heard about the lawsuit and just assumed women continued to make less.
Exactly. And why do they feel that woman working the same job as them devalues wages? Because for them, it's a given that woman earn less and women's jobs are less desirable. It's so f*d up.
I think you need to study some economics before saying things. If the workforce doubles, the value of labor gets cut in half. Add in immigrations and offshoring, and the value of males labor just doesn't exist anymore. Yet they're still held to the same standard they were used to.
"I view others as lesser and I hide behind a wall of thorns, I dont know why Im so lonely"
Side note: every conservative ideology consists of changing yourself rather than changing the system. Just endure suffering more!
Exactly. One more thing I have found is, m4n bond with one another mainly about women- that he did this to her, that to her, and other ways of speaking poorly about all the women in their lives. Even recently there was an Korean issue of the Nth room controversy where guys even deep faked their moms and sisters. This type of bonding is shallow and will not last. And these types of men won’t ever get female companionship for the long hauls because of the way they act. And the cycle continues.
@@manifest2203 I've been trying to help men for most of my life and overwhelmingly the only time they are supportive to other men is when they are hating on women. I keep telling them they need to support and be kinder to OTHER MEN and I just get the wall of "that's not how male relationships work" or ""you're just trying to make us into women", It is so, so frustrating because a major answer to the male loneliness epidemic is for men to be more supportive to other men WITHOUT needing to hate and degrade another group. It's so frustrating and I feel helpless to stop this nightmare as a woman. Don't even get me started about trying to get them to see a bloody therapist to deal with all the unhealed parental trauma that has led to this crap.
As a woman, I WANT to help men, but because I'm a woman, my advice is automatically lesser and discarded even though I've been through a large amount of things men go through (suppressing emotions, having no emotional support with friends, extreme isolation, having society hate me [I'm disabled]). I've grown up with men, my friends through my entire life have been 85% men and I've personally observed the problematic behaviors and how they develop through every stage of life. But it doesn't matter outside of a small amount of men I've met and am still friends with because I'm a woman.
They want women to fix the problem, but don't respect women enough to learn from them.
Who do you think taught those men to do that?
@@manifest2203 South Korea is already going through a population decline. Certainly the issue of digital abuse towards women will speed it up.
@@Here4TheHeckOfIt yes SKorea has the worlds lowest birth rate. I am a little bit interested in demography and I did some aelf study on it. And yes, these types of issues will surely exacerbate the issue. Imagine britthing and raising a s8on who acts like this. That would be the biggest tragedy a woman can go through.
y'all need hazard pay for your manosphere research
Do y'all hate the manoshphere because it's the only place men aren't told they are evil and useless ? Like are you afraid of men with pride instead of internolised misandry 😂
this comment is one way to pick up chicks
You're right, men should just watch the view or other main stream misandry crap, I mean what self respecting man doesn't want to hear how useless he is 24-7
If it's a sincerely believed statement, then it definitely is worth at least a few brownie points. Calling women "chicks" though, like... How old are you, ten? There are a lot of ways of casually and _respectfully_ mentioning women, and this ain't it, chief.@@matthewcooper3218
I don't understand why you people hate the "manoshphere", do you just hate men with self respect and confidence ? I'm pretty sure it's the only place that doesn't blame men's problems on men, yet y'all still don't get it
Male viewer ready to support Chelsea and TFD while also enjoying this banger
Thanks king!
👊 smart.
+1
So appreciated! I sincerely hope you believe that you are respected as a human, and it’s just as important that you find your personal value, which doesn’t solely come from the fact that you are a man, but does include your masculinity!
Bro! I immediately thought Chelsea FC and TFD what a man's man! Then I was like oh! But yes this is a certified banger. But also C'mon United!
So we should say "Musk is listed as a founder of Tesla" bc he didn't found it, but he negotiated his name to be listed as a founder when he bought into the existing company.
Yep & used his manipulation 2 oust the 2 REAL founders out. Tesla would b more legit if those 2 founders remained in power & muskrat pissed off!
This is a huge topic. Lots of sad dudes end up becoming easy marks for grifters.
lol, still calling women the gold diggers 😂
As a man, this whole episode just makes me glad I go to therapy. I think it's definitely easy to fall for the traps of toxic male influencers when it looks like they have it all together, while the average person struggles. Great episode as always, Chelsea, even if it did raise my stress levels about the state of the world.
what kind of AI comment is this lmao
I made the mistake of making a critical comment on an Andrew Tate fan video. Talk about male mental health issues.
They called you a brokie didn’t they.
That to me is one of the downsides of the internet--making a normal comment and then having other ppl feel the need to be weird
Yeah I feel like men who start to view gurus as their de facto new father figure then become incredibly defensive for no reason when opposing opinions are presented
@@elizabethswan5850 this applies equally to any parasocial relationships/pseudo-fandoms, across gender. but the reason human beings become defensive in such cases is that they’ve projected a part of their identity onto this figure, and so critique of the figure is psychologically felt as a hit to oneself (one’s identity, values).
My husband and I both work over full time in stressful careers. He is a high earner and the smartest person I know. I make quite a bit more than him and have since we have been together. We are a partnership, we don’t care who makes more etc. it’s OUR money and we both approach our finances in the same responsible fashion.
This is the exact same for me and my husband. We encourage each other to be better and to hustle (to a healthy degree of course).
Alas most guys are brainwashed by an early age to always need to be providing and to feed that 'masculine' ego. It takes a lot of self reflection to part ways with that
@@carolineauch I think Chris Rock hit the nail on the head when he said “men are only loved on the condition that they provide something”. Society has always expected men to be providers and there is very little acceptance of men who aren’t working to support others. I doubt many women would find a man attractive who they had to provide for while he followed his passion projects, but the reverse is not the case.
@@carolineauchexactly!
@@cjmhallI would LOVE if my husband didn’t work full time. He would still be working taking care of the home, chores, etc. it would take so much off my plate and make our lives much more relaxed.
How do you split chores?
Glad I have a workaholic dad, who even worked 3 years longer after his official retirement. Was 35 years in the same company. He invented stuff, and while his boss owns houses and Porsches, my dad got a huge food basket for his last day of work as a Senior semiconductor Engineer and Project Lead. His boss even did not give a last raise 1 year before retirement to make him raise the public monthly retirement rate.
Taught me as a kid an adult how to treat life and corporate cringe
From all these extra hours he spent he could have bought a house, I am not kidding.
But on a social Aspect, my dad was an introvert and negotiation was a no-go for him. My mom even Managed to get him a raise through the phone, once, 20 years ago, when she in highest Anger called the Boss, she was so fed up 😂
the man should have left and found a better job. at the end of the day, you need to look after yourself and his best interest and not be terrified of change. That is on him.
Im a woman and I learned you do your job and go home. Dont do more or volunteer for more thinking it will get you somewhere. You can do it if you want, but not because you think you will get a raise or promotion. They will let you go just the same as a bad employee. This just happened to one of our star employees this week.
@@iequalasianin his Father’s Day they believed in workplace loyalty and job hoping was heavily looked down upon. It’s different now since millennials and gen z give back the same energy we are given.
@@ecclairmayo4153I’m also a woman in the workplace. I do more for more money. Not for free. People who do free work are asking to be exploited and burn out. If I’m not being offered more hours or overtime don’t even look my way.
Gotta be real, as a guy in this economy the worst part really is the culture within cis-male spaces. Like, the table stakes is that the economy sucks for literally everyone. But then, on top of that, so much of the media and marketing around being a guy is a twofold "Be a little asshole" and "Get paid or get out". Glad TFD is focusing on the influencers in that space, because that's really the unique aspect of this experience.
Great take on where the gaps are in the male experience.
I love your videos. Congratulations on your 10 year. I can’t wait for the 20 year anniversary when we’re talking about the Gen Alpha spending habits lol🎉
Oh wow. This one is going to get a lot of heat.
Popcorn time?
They think they are smart because they spent a lot of money learning lies.
All the comments are pretty universally in agreement. Not much heat actually
First generation American. Man of color. Been following this page for a bit now. Thank you for your content.
Thank you for being here!
-C
Being a feminist means caring about boys and men too. The patriarchy imprisons men and women, boys and girls. I work fulltime and have a boy and a girl and I don't want this prison for either of my children or the toxic, malignant culture. Great video.
Same! I am the mother of a son. I want better for him. My feminism means I want him to grow up in a world where he can be respected and respectful, and also expect that from others.
@@sha2596 Same. Glad to hear my teen son say he prefers emotional honesty and actual problem solving to get through life, than toxic posturing
lol
@@cherstuff20 Great job on that! :)
What you say feminism is about and what it's done are two VERY different things
A bit off topic, just on Jordan Peterson. After I watched a couple of his videos on depression, TH-cam algorithms flooded my "recommended" with similar stuff. I was shocked to find out that his whole family are now gurus! His daughter has podcast, and strongly advocates, among other things, for having kids early which causes visceral "oi, only a small minority can actually afford it" reaction in me. Same for his wife, making videos about importance of stay at home mom for child development- are these people for real?? Do they actually get views? Like, having kids early and staying at home is the pathway to poverty for most of the people on the planet, who are these gurus speaking too??
@@anastasiia2092
they get paid by rightwing lobby groups, they buy their views
They get millions of views but they’re all just grifters another one is Russel brand
Putin pays them.
Wow, a little OT but I could have sworn his wife died and that was what sent him into that drug spiral that he had to go to Russia for some kind of fringe detox therapy for. Mandela strikes again!
🤢 he has a daughter that he's brainwashed huh. Why and how do these types marry at all. They hate women yet can't live without them 😂
There seems to be an idea in the culture right now that men (and women) worked so much harder in the past. So, if you are not successful, you just didn’t work as hard as your grandparents did. The idea that everyone was grinding in the past is ridiculous. My stay-at-home Grandma had a weekly house cleaner, for many meals served my grandfather Campbell’s soup, canned vegetables, and Wonder bread, had hobbies outside the home, and only raised one child. Grandpa had a desk job and had a yard man to mow the lawn and prune the trees and bushes. They weren’t rich, just middle class. Their house was modest by today's standards (2000 square feet, no fancy finishes, small yard). I’ve done heavier housework/yardwork than they ever did, and I’m disabled. I’ve had my disabilities my whole life. My parents had to sue our school district to get me mainstreamed. The childhood surgery bills took care of whatever extra money they had after that. I spent years looking for work before giving up. But my parents and I just didn't grind hard enough I guess. I live on benefits, cannot drive, and will never attain anything even close to the standard of living my grandparents had.
Running a 'marathon' every day is a good way to ruin your joints over time. Ask me how I know. Don't do it.
Men will run a marathon every day instead of spending a few more hours with their wife and children 🤔
It's crazy to me how you will write an incredibly sexist comment and people like it. It's because of people like you and your selfishness and privilege that young men are having trouble.
You are the problem, you are the privileged one. Your parents failed at raising you
Agreed. They don’t want to do unpaid work. And they don’t want to be emotionally connected to their children and wives.
Not to say celebrities are the standard but this just brings up actors like Michael Keaton and Rick moranis. Who left acting for a time or forever to be with their family. Now who knows what kind of spouse they are etc. but that's why they said they left acting. Michael Keaton said he left it for a while to raise his kids and be with his family. He said that in an actors guild table interview.
@@LonkinPork that's bc most hate their wives or having a family. It is something they think they should do in society. Many men ran back to the office after covid to escape the home lol
Unfortunately, many women want their men to be “success” machines because men are disproportionately responsible for maintaining economic status. Many women would rather see their man die on his horse than fall off it.
As a man, this episode means so much to me. I realized toxic masculinity got to me when at 21 I developed an hernia on my back killing myself on the gym because I wanted to be manly. Since then, I have been working to deconstruct the notion of masculinity and reconnect with exercise in a way that doesn't hurt me or kill me.
We need men to know that our idea of masculinity comes from the idea that we stand strong when we repress and obey the mold. But we need to break the mold and be free to feel and free to develop a healthier relationship with our mind, body and others.
There are also so many men who should be dating each other rather than women...
Too many gays
They could just study in school and maybe not blame women
And go to therapy instead of expecting women to be their “peace”.
That part!!!!
💯
😂
not blame women yes
but american school has nothing to do with stability in life
I think for a channel dedicated to financial literacy that targets those in the mid-20s and up, it's fine to ignore Tate.
But I feel it's disingenuous to say most of his followers don't even believe him. You have lots of tween and teen boys who get interested in him and his lifestyle. To ignore him and say his followers don't even believe him ignores the fact there is a good chunk of gen-a who will become manosphere bro adults because they got drip-fed Tate in their teens.
True stoicisms foundation is empathy and compassion
I mean, not really. There’s no reason to fetishize Stoicism to begin with. It was a pretty brutal philosophy, but a LOT more skeptical and humorous than Holiday’s guru drivel.
Like we say in latinamerica: "Silence, my Telenovela has started!!!!"
I love when Chelsea does the montage song lol
I talk to my bff like 3-4 times a week, we've lived in different states since we were 18 amd we're 30 now. Conversations last from a 5 minute I need to rant before work/class to hours just hanging out in a phone call. She also talks to her college bff just as if not more frequently because they're only an hour a part now that she just moved. Almost every time we're on the phone her bf is like "you're on the phone" "yep with Brianna" "AGAIN?!". Yes, again its not weird we talk so often my guy, its weird you can't/won't make friends or put in effort to maintain and grow pre existing ones. If you haven't talked to your "best friend" in 5 years, probably not a best friend my guy.
How'd that wall feel? If I was her bf Id run I can imagine what bs you feed her when you watch stuff like this.
It’s always CAPITALISM
We live in a capitalist, patriarchic society. And yet, women are able to strive ahead. Despite the problems.
Not really. The exact same gender dynamics play out in socialist, even communist, countries. The problem is men, not capitalism.
@@saltycrunchagreed. You are so right.
@@saltycrunch how would you solve the men problem?
@@matthewcooper3218 that's for men to figure out themselves. Women had to do it and organize to get basic human rights in the mid 20th century. Men need to curb their violent natures, pursue education or trades, stop being predatory towards women, learn how to be decent involved fathers and faithful husbands. Many men are doing all of this already. They can be role models for the ones who aren't.
Men are more likely to be exposed to COVID?
Based on healthcare alone, I'm going to say that is not accurate.
The front lines workforce in all hospitals are heavily female dominated.
There is also service roles that are heavily female dominated that had very close exposure, flight attendants, grocery and retail clerks, hotel staff, ect.
Those are lower count, visible jobs. You do not count jobs that may be less visible and which take large numbers of people.
Girl WHAT are you talking about? Up until very very recently the entire family worked lol. The men were not providing. The entire family down to the children were working.
Not that I think we should go back to that ever. But this idea of one person providing is extremely modern. Just toss it out.
I think you're really onto something in the split between the working poor and the aspiring middle class. Many POC and wt poor families have never had the fantasty of the sole male breadwinner. You really can't talk about the financial manosphere stuff without getting into the race/immigration angle IMHO.
It is a perception of a very specific generational era from the early 20th century. Working families were overwhelmingly common until the late Industrial Revolution that made leisure a much more accessible hobby for many families, and during the World War eras, with many men being drafted and deployed, the economy and families in general adapted to the single-income lifestyle. America specifically was booming, so it was easier to achieve, but as that steam ran out and we balanced back to a more realistic economy, the single-income dream washed away.
You have a point
I think she mentioned that in another video but didn't go into the details here. I'm fairly sure she's aware of it.
I think she was moreso referencing the cultural notion. It is true that the idea of the “one income household” where dad works and mom stays home with the kids is not an ancient notion, especially as it relates to most people outside of the upper echelons of society. Most families worked at the family profession where the male was the figurehead, but everyone in the household worked and assisted in some capacity.
I have a really tough time finding postitive masculine roll models for myself and my son. It's easy to point out the toxic traits.
I warmly recommend the show and Podcast MenEnough by Justin Baldoni and friends!
I recommend Dr. John Delony. He has a mental health podcast on TH-cam with many episodes focusing on actual issues men are facing in America.
I recommend Prof G and HealthyGamerGG. Now that I wrote that, it looks like I have a fetish for the letter "G", but I swear those 2 guys are great role models for boys.
Dave Ramsey, John Delony are good ones.
Not Dave Ramsey. HasanAbi is a political commentator with leftist views that aims to create understanding and equity for all people. Curses a lot though, probably not the best for your son.
15% of people cheating on their partner is an absurdly depressing statistic. By honestly, 5% also feels sad because it's the lowest rate?!?! Imagine 1 in 20 couples!
Not really. Your local walmart closes, you'll find another grocery store to shop at. Same deal with your spouse/girl/boyfriend, they stop putting in effort and making it worth it, you find it somewhere else. Love is a need not a want 🤷
15 percent is actually lower than the real number I suspect it's higher but they didn't get caught or they didn't admit it besides how they're getting these stats? just from my personal experience it's like 50 percent or higher
@@nanomia Yeah this seemed really low to me too....I seriously doubt most people would admit to it.
@@nanomia lol you get cheated on because you desire the desirable and the desirable get lots of options. Enjoy your cats
@@user-wc5lw7ps6h1 It's easy for women to find a new partner. The fact that you describe it as shopping at a different store says it all.
26% of men not seeing a healthcare provider of any kind means they're likely a walking talking cocktail of STIs.
They would have to actually get laid to get STIs. There is a huge increase in the number of virgin men well into their 20s… and less and less people are having sex.
@@AnusiaLA Well said. As men, we're taught to "suck it up." Therefore leading men being too stubborn to visit the doc.
Yep. Hence why my rule is "no glove, no love"
Have to get laid to get an STI. Most aren't.
Your assumption makes sense, but in the numbers, it's rather women who carry those. That is because women are having way more sex than men.
I LOVE Dr. Andrea Love. She calls out the BS with facts and receipts. She isn’t afraid to speak out against these predatory content creators spreading fallacies.
0:43 oof-even if Tate weren’t either lying or narcissistic (and court filings make me think it’s both), the only way anybody makes it to his age with “not a single negative interaction with {demographic category}” is by not having interactions with that category of person or by not realizing when the interactions were negative.
52:00 he didn't found Tesla, he took over Tesla, bullied his way into making it his public image.
If my wife was the primary breadwinner, that would be hot. I don’t understand why so many men are uncomfortable with that.
I do not understand that either. I am a wife who makes more than my husband. It did not have a negative impact on our marriage. I feel this is totally fine. I still love him 😂
You can’t understand because you’re not insecure and you’re a mature adult.
Because society still presents full-time parenting as a mom’s responsibility to the point that dads are called babysitters, and still says a measure of a man is the size of his paycheck. In a small way, it makes slight sense-when a woman (biologically speaking, not gender identity) gives birth, she should have time off to recover. 100%. But this does mean that her career advancement will be put on hold. There’s no way around that at all. And it’s reasonable that employers will not want to put someone into a position where their responsibilities may get put on hold, especially when that may affect the livelihoods of others. Even if she’s paid the entire time she’s off, and reenters where she was, those who didn’t give birth will have continued moving on, and those people are more likely to be men. There is no way to split the birth and recovery aspect. So it’s seen as her job, and the money part is the man’s job.
So when a man isn’t able to “do his part,” he may feel like a failure.
If she gives birth, then he’s the at-home parent, “What, she gave birth AND is making the money? What do YOU do all day?” The actual parenting part is devalued. Then the woman is told she’s wearing the pants in the family. That phrase-pants in the family/house/relationship-needs to die.
I would honestly love being a tradhusband. Stay at home, look after my house kids and body, and cook for my lady. Unfortunately of course, the dark part is that the lady has to be independently wealthy for this to be able to happen.
Most women want a partner either at or above their level.
Look at the dating statistics and what they seek in a partner. Not knocking just providing a counter viewpoint.
We need to reimagine what it means to be a man and a women in todays society
So I was under the false impression that I was a man for the first 38 years of my life and it was really lonely. I would try to have real friendships and be called gay. One of the first changes that happened when I started openly living as a woman was the amount of maybe not friendship but solidarity other women showed me. I hated the fact when presenting as a man other women would (rightfully) be suspicious of me when I showed an interest in pursuing a friendship. Men can be dangerous, and I have seen men try to exploit a friendship in that manner.
Compliments on your script writing: Elon Musk, father to many, dad to none.
I literally just finished a session with a client that burned to the ground in the pursuit of more money. I can't imagine how man who are being told seeking help makes them weak are doing right now. It's wild 😤
Wow yeah I'm glad that there are people seeking help
Right now, “more money” often means “enough to pay the rent AND eat.”
Well… the highest rate for ‘self unaliving’ is men +75 years old followed by men 25-44 years old.
That’s where men who ‘avoid being weak’ end up. Men (in the US) commit suicde at a lower rate than women but that’s because they opt for more violent route… thus being more likely to ‘achieve’ it.
Other than that, severe depression I.e men on a recliner rotting away with a cold one, higher rates of aggression/substance misuse which lead to smaller social circles and higher rates of liver, kidney, heart disease, etc. since even seeking help for their physical health is ‘showing weakness’.
That’s how they’re doing.
@@chelseashurmantine8153 …it depends if there’s the appropriate help available… I think that both men and women turn to pseudoscience and con artists when the systems that purport to help them fail
@@45.N.45let’s not pretend any of us live in a system that makes getting mental health care affordable or easy. Or that therapy is really all that effective if your problems are practical.
I’m a guy. I’ve gone to therapy. You know what I got? Advice to meditate, some SSRIs, not so subtly called fat, and told that I should follow my passions. And this was multiple different people.
I’m more than a little sick of being told not to isolate by a world that doesn’t think I have any dignity unless I consume or earn.
This was so interesting, Chelsea and team! Thank you for putting words into a phenomenon I’ve “felt” with finance bro influencers but haven’t quite found how to describe myself.
I am a bit torn on the individualistic solutions. As a healthcare provider who also parented young kids throughout COVID, it really felt like we were ignored by the system and therefore had to “take matters into our own hands”. Half of society didn’t believe in Covid, hospital admin told us we were essential and yet we are not valued as such (from pay, from PPE), dropping the kids off at daycare esp in the early days when exposure risks were unclear while we go into the ICU and there’s no support if any of the kids need to stay home to quarantine, and we were “too well off” to get any childcare help from the govt. There’s a whole phenomenon of healthcare people feeling this way, and we’ve learned the system isn’t there for us.
All that to say.. I would love a deep dive on healthcare folks burning out, and how that can badly impact society at large.
Extremely poor taste to make fun of balding and hair transplants in a video about toxic masculinity.
One more thing I have found is, m4n bond with one another mainly about women- that he did this to her, that to her, and other ways of speaking poorly about all the women in their lives. Even recently there was an Korean issue of the Nth room controversy where guys even deep faked their moms and sisters. This type of bonding is shallow and will not last. And these types of men won’t ever get female companionship for the long hauls because of the way they act. And the cycle continues.
I mean, it's nice to hear that a female-centric podcast will even discuss male issues, but this video doesn't seem very constructive for men, honestly. As a man who has never subscribed to the mannosphere but certainly identifies with the struggles of being a PERSON trying to make it in modern society, it's good to hear that many things men do or try to do are part of toxic masculinity, but where are the actual suggestions on what we can be doing? To summarize some of the main points, in the video you have stated:
- trying to climb the corporate ladder is toxic masculinity, so I can't do that, but wait, deferring to my spouse to be the breadwinner is also not acceptable because apparently I am more likely to cheat, so also can't do that!
- but meanwhile, trying to improve work/life balance by making my job more efficient is also not good because any attempts at timesaving would end up exploiting somebody else, so can't do that!
- also meanwhile, part of toxic masculinity is the lack of personal development and hobbies, but if I try to pursue hobbies, that leaves my spouse neglected or left to take care of the house/kids, so can't do that either!
- and let's say I try to achieve wealth through investments to keep me from throwing all my hours into my job, that is also highly unlikely to work, so might as well not try that either!
- maybe I could at least try to be physically in better shape. well, apparently that is also toxic because men caring about their physical condition means they are subscribing to some toxic competitive ideology, so better not do that either.
- and self improvement in general? that is apparently also part of age-old masculine ideals (as if women never try to improve themselves), so can't do that either!
so at the end of the hour long video, I am left knowing a whole bunch of things NOT to do to try to improve my situation, but Chelsea hasn't really given me any constructive ideas, well, maybe except go to therapy, which I have already been doing. This is actually not unlike the female-targeted videos from this channel, where a lot of focus is placed on the problems, but not many ideas on how to solve them or what can be done instead. Is the point of the channel to encourage everyone regardless of gender to just give up in life? I do wonder.
This is great. I am exasperated by all this and I am pessimistic that young men will pivot even as it is obvious their life satisfaction worsens when they immerse themselves in these echo chambers.
Same, this is one of the most depressing topics for me. Manosphere giving their listeners simplistic explanations for men's unhappiness (e.g. it's because feminism that you struggle financially right now, dear adolescent boy); young boys being targeted, drawn into extremely negative vision of the world or women BEFORE they actually have any real life experience of it. I'm horrified all this is firmly in the mainstream now.
This might sound like simple advice, but if you are a man and you do feel loneliness and a lack of connection to others, there are two great things you can do, in my experience. Get yourself a dog and volunteer in your community. These things create healthy routines, make sure you are getting out and interacting with society, help expand your social circle, and help to provide a sense of purpose that I know a lot of men feel like they’re missing in your life. And that dog will give you unconditional love, and that feels amazing.
Comparatively, stay-at-home moms also have some of the highest rates of cheating among professions.
Ask any divorce lawyer.
@52:00
Musk is not the founder of Tesla. He purchased that title from a good company founded by two real engineers.
I live in abundance. I do not fall for the illusion of scarcity. I advise all my brothers do the same
Bring Stephanie Janis Stiefel on the show. She changed my life Financially I managed to grow a nest egg of around 120k to over a Million. I'm especially grateful to Stephanie Janis Stiefel, for her expertise and exposure to different areas of the market.
I know this lady you just mentioned. Stephanie Janis Stiefel is a portfolio manager and investment advisor. She gained recognition as a former employee at Goldman Sachs; a renowned investor she is. Stephanie Janis Stiefel has demonstrated expertise in investment strategies and has been involved in managing portfolios and providing guidance to clients.
Father to many dad to none ☠️ i cackled 😂
The supposed expectation for a woman to "take care of the household no matter what" is just as toxic an idea to women as the "I must be a breadwinner for my family" idea is to men. I fear both were subtly endorsed as truisms by the content of the video itself...
The individual and society perspective of masculinity needs to update to modern society. And US modern society needs to drastically change to support a healthy community. To survive should be extremely easy and be getting easier, rather US society has only gotten more difficult to survive let alone thriving.
Without creating more free time for people and creating space to create community we can't decrease the epidemic of loneliness and isolation.
Idk, so far it seems like the statistics show more and more men opting out of society. The number of men who have no friends, no sex, and no job is steady increasing, and I don't think we have any strategies to stop it.
Changing the system seems out of our control, but getting better at playing it always seems like something in your control.
These men don’t WANT the system to change. They just want to be the ones at the top. They cope by believing they can get there. But if there is no one for them to step on, they don’t want it
I'm 22 minutes in. I just wanted to hear about the economics or gendered job pay statistics
This was a great topic👏👏👏
10:18 I would disagree with the assertion that the historical male role was "the provider" solely because the common usage of that word has changed. 700 million people live on less than $2 a day. You may say "how is that possible"... the answer is, it's not, official figures just don't count the informal economy which skews heavily female. The 50s-70s were a historically unique era. Inventions eliminated household labor, post war economy has material excess. During those 20 years, the man was the provider.
Before that point, women were doing A LOT of work that directly provided for the family (unless the woman was from a wealthy family). We are seeing a shift back. The labor of two adults is now required to sustain a family. Basically: The 50s-70s was a completely unique historical period. We also picked up a lot of bad habits, one of which is gender. The vast array of gendered rules/standards/guidelines is clinically insane and was solely an aristocratic thing until the 50s. Then we started living like aristocrats and adopted the gender nonsense too.
In short: The male breadwinner was a concept that only existed from 1950 to 1970 & for some reason our society decided to normalize all the weird things we were doing during that period and just pretend like we had always done things that way.
I make around 63% of the household income. I guess I’d be considered a “breadwinner”. Thankfully, we share one pot of money. I wouldn’t feel intimidated if she was the breadwinner.
Looking forward to this episode. I see some real interesting characters on the thumbnail.
Being the breadwinner usually suggests a more significant difference in earnings between partners, not just a small margin.
@@Jaylade mmmmm idk about almost 2/3 of the household income being marginal....
@@chelseashurmantine8153 If we're being precise about numbers, 63% is closer to -13% higher than 50%- than almost two-thirds. ;)
America DESPERATELY NEEDS better education 😢
I feel like the realities of being born into the proletariat has forced me to "grind" and overwork myself more than traditional gender roles and the need to be a breadwinner. My class status has made me being the breadwinner the NECESSITY rather than my gender status and internalized views of masculinity making me WANT to be a breadwinner. I have been told this is my own internalized toxic masculinity by gender studies people which may well be true. I still think capital is the force crushing men and women and every gender rather than any gender imposing oppresion on anothed, or even themselves.
Beautifully worded. I couldn't have written better satire if I tried.
Is it just me or is Stanford a red flag now? 😅
Look up Leland Stanford. It always was.
You're doing exactly what Ryan Holiday is doing with your TH-cam channel, but at least his work has wisdom, and he's not getting views for smearing other content creators.
I have a very young son, and my prayer is that things change before he is old enough to internalize that his brand of being a boy and a man will not be valuable unless he fits a toxic norm. I want mentally, physically, and emotionally healthy masculinity with respect for all people in a world full of men and women to be the norm for him!
You CAN affect this.
@@genevalawrence801literally right now 😂
That is pretty easy just make sure you and the people around you and your family do those things. I have 4 boys and that is one of the biggest things I have instilled in them never be around people you wouldn't want to be like. Who you hang round and are your friends makes a really big impact on the kind of person you are and the life you will lead.
@@krystelhardesty9960 That's why men are leaving dating and society. Too much toxic femininity. I wish your sons the best of luck. A woman can never teach a boy how to be a man.
@@genevalawrence801 yes, probably the biggest ways to influence that is to model that behavior with your husband, and, more importantly to find a community that shares those values
Had to pause to comment after hearing that the model with male providers and female homemakers has been around "for millennia". This is, in my understanding, a pretty dangerous myth. For most of history, we've lived in agrarian societies where there are gendered chores, but both men and women are hard working and busy around their farms to make ends meet. Then with industrialisation, wage labour becomes more important, but for the working class this was still something done by both men, women and often children. (I also live in a country that got industrualised in the late 1800s, so most people's family histories seem to contain maybe one or two generations of housewifes, but usually not more).
The male provider, female homemaker combination seems to be mostly a middle-class phenomenon and something that's not been around for more than maybe 100-200 years, with a peak in the 1900s. The upper classes have usually had different systems (where neither of them work, nor take care of their own children).
There's also a lot of bias in historical sources and ways to make working women invisible, such as listing men with a profession and women as their wives, despite these women working alongside their husbands. So, did we really live well in single-income families for most of history, or isn't this mostly a 1900s phenomenon?
A moment to appreciate how sarcastic Chelsea Fagan is! 😂💀💕