You're probably using ましょうか WRONG...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 เม.ย. 2024
- The ましょうか and ましょう conjugations presented in the Genki Textbooks are very useful. But you're probably using them WRONG.
These are versions of the Japanese polite VOLITIONAL conjugation. We cover what the textbooks might be misleadin you on!
Verb Conjugations: • Japanese Verb Conjugat...
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Written by: @ToKiniAndy
Edited by: @Come2Japan
Japanese Voiceovers: ToKini Yuki
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great stuff! now the paranoia sets in of accidentally using the wrong one...
Probably fine. 👀
Making mistakes is part of the learning experience. I was in Japan a few weeks ago with my Japanese friends and we were walking in a park, and a woman walking a small dog walked towards us and I said 「かわいそう！」. My friends laughed, and I contemplated seppuku.
@@midnightfm87 LOL
This is the exact kind of content I’ve been missing on your channel. Great stuff!
Between this and Kaname's recent video on か, it feels like that particle suddenly got a lot more complicated.
Right? I feel like I didn't know it well and it had me looking into it more now
You cooked with this one!! Been studying for 3 years and no teacher has ever been able to explain this so well
Ah this makes a lot of sense actually, sometimes i was confused when watching anime or reading because i thought that it only meant "shall we do ...?".
Thanks man can't believe i didnt know that earlier !
I am intrigued! Quite looking forward to this.
i love ur humor of the badmitton section
This is so helpful, thank you! My Japanese class in college has been great, but you two supplement that knowledge so well with more nuance than the textbooks can provide.
Very helpful and informative video!
Thanks for this video! I had no idea intonation was key in this case.
Thank you so much Viola!
Just today I learned that か can be used to change the volitional "shall I/we". Good to know it can mean different things depending on intonation, thanks for the videos
I had actually understood this in my mind somewhat and watching this video has confirmed my understanding of this! Thank you!
It's really hard to explain just how important intonation is to someone not studying Japanese... It's probably the main area I focus on in my studies since I struggle with it especially when learning new conversational phrases! To me it seems more important to prioritize over something like Kanji which even native-speakers have to look up every now and then.
Very informative as always!!
改めて教えてくれてありがとうございます
I think that totally depends on your goals (do you want to read a lot? Better not spend all your time on intonation!), but yes, it can be very important as we've seen. hehe
That was interesting
Thank you, sensei
I visited 長野県 for the first time recently and it was spectacular! My favorite stop was 上田城, and the trip made me think of how you’ve talked about Nagano, and that my Japanese skill would not be nearly as good without your teaching! Thank you Andy sensei, please continue to always make the best Japanese learning videos 🙏
Correction: 6:07 should be Cさんが 来れない と言っていました。or Cさんが 来ない と言っていました。
or 来られない
Cさんが 行けません と言っていました。would also be okay.
The difference between rising and falling intonation is a great point and I think you’re spot on. But I wouldn’t worry too much about the rising intonation form being too insulting or denigrating. If someone said 一緒に行きましょうか ⤴️ to me I wouldn’t take it as you need company you lonely sod. It just feels like a slightly more polite way of asking if you would like to go together as opposed to 一緒に行きましょうか ⤵️ which feels more like a statement let’s go together just as in English. So the former is more like a question while the latter feels more like a suggestion if you will even if they both end in ka. And if you’re going to grab and carry someone else’s bag then you’re definitely asking as opposed to just assuming they want it carried for them.
How did this come out right as I'm getting to the mashoo section of the JLPT N5 workbook. This is so clutchhhh
I like translating the rising intonation one as "do you want me to.."
Let’s Mashyo-ing!
Hehe, I'm not using them wrong. Thanks to many of your previous videos and immersion! :D
Excellent
"ましょう"or "ましょうか？" is the old type of Japanese and is not used by many Japanese. When the subject is "I", the nuance is closer to "Let me try to do" rather than "Shall I do". It is a meaning, like asking the other person's permission for you to try.
When the subject is we or you, some may think it is a forced nuance, so it is better to replace it with "しませんか？" and respect the will of others.
Interesting, never thought about it and just picked it up naturally, but couldn't explain why it was there in the first place.
As a lifelong English (U.S.) speaker, I've never once heard any person use "shall" in casual speech.
Apparently the way i was naturally saying it is offensive 💀
very informative😇👍
So きっぷは買いましょうか⤵️
Means shall we buy tickets?
While
きっぷは買いましょうか⤴️
Means shall I buy you a ticket?
Like damn, those are some different questions Japanese, why do you make it hinge on how questiony my 'か' sounds. Especially to New Zealanders who have natural rising intonation! I'm going to be accidentally offering to do stuff for people all the time!
Oh my goodness!
I've been a really mean person before this
わかります ありがとうございます
Mr. Andy, can you recommend to me the best tool to learn Japanese grammar, at least N5,N4,N3, Thanks for you hard work お疲れ様でした ❤
I'd recommend just picking one and getting started. If you aren't happy with whatever you pick, you can always change to a different method with a tiny bit of effort. If you don't start you will never learn anything though.
I have personally had good luck with the Core2k/6k anki deck and to a lesser degree, the JLPT Tango N5 anki deck. I would recommend core2k/6k with a few modifications over the jlpt deck because JLPT teaches you words in a frankly really stupid order (ie all JLPT based vocab decks will not be as good as something like core2k/6k). If you do choose to use the core2k/6k deck, I would modify the card a bit to add the example sentence on the front, make sure the font is actually designed for Japanese (as opposed to chinese. Some chinese characters are written differently than their Japanese equivalent) add furigana to kanji you don't know (when you see the card for the first time) and add definitions for the words you don't know to the back. It is more work, but you will have a much better learning experience that way. (It can also be helpful to color words based on pitch accent pattern so you can verify that you are hearing the pattern correctly)
so wouldn't it be easier (in an informal situation) to just drop the "ka" to avoid confusion by intonation?
10 minutes of hooks to say pitch accent is a thing lol
At 6:05 she says 来れません which is one of my pet-peeves, because I was taught by the Shouwa-people I was raised by that it is 来られません and nothing else. Has it now become officially accepted as grammatically correct?
It’s almost always 来れません in modern Japanese conversation.
With that said, this should have really been 来れない or 来られない.
In formal writing it’s still probably best to write 来られない or 来られません though.
言葉は変化していくものですからね。ら抜き言葉がなぜ主流になりつつあるかというと、「ら」を入れると、可能か尊敬か受動態かが判らないことがあるからですね。特に日本語は主語を抜くことが多いので。例えばただ「食べられます」と言われた時、偉い人が食べることが出来るという尊敬か、自分がそれを食べることが出来るという可能か、何かが誰かに食される受動態か判断が付かないと思います。このことから「ら」を抜くことによって、可能だけを特化させたんだと思います。
Having recently learned that ビデオ has the implied meaning that you are talking about a VHS tape, that outro really pained me :d
If I remember correctly, 動画 is the correct word to use for something like a youtube video. (I learned that from Kaname Naito also here on TH-cam)
It’s not true though. There is a video going around where someone says that, but young people don’t even know what VHS tapes are. Languages adapt, and if you check a recent native Japanese dictionary, they have adapted too. It’s no longer just VHS.
It may help for me to add that this has been my wife (native Japanese) and my sign off for live streams for 4 years now. Plenty of Japanese people are attending too, and neither she nor they have ever mentioned an issue. I've discussed it with her in the past as well, and she agrees that in modern Japanese it means other types of videos as well. Furthermore, there are tons of native Japanese TH-camrs who use it for TH-cam videos. If everyone starts using it in a new way, it doesn't really matter what it used to mean.
@@ToKiniAndy Ah, I see. Thank you for the explanation. If you'd like to see the video for yourself, it was Kaname Naito's video correcting TH-cam comments from a week or 2 ago.
He looks to be in his 30s and is a native speaker, so he probably just didn't double check his understanding. I also didn't question it because I grew up with VHS tapes and still haven't completely accepted their new found obscurity :d
Yup, Tokini is correct. I personally don’t use ビデオ just because I want to use the Japanese words, but more and more younger people in my experience (even my wife and kids) are using it for various things. Great content 👍
あああ、もう少し勉強になりました。ありがとうござます！