Nah Spike's plans are honestly solid, pretty much all of them would have worked if it wasn't for things he couldn't possibly have expected. His first plan to kill Buffy failed because she's basically the only Slayer ever to have allies and family backing her up. Second plan failed because Kendra showed up which nobody expected. Then Angelus screwed everything up and went against Spikes advice while Spike was recovering. Then Spike actually gets a win by pitting Angel and Buffy against eachother while he escapes with Dru. The only time he really screwed up was losing the ring this season (and even then, his plan to get it back in Angel would have worked if Oz didn't unexpectedly show up.)
It’s great because even in his state, he’s still getting character development. He was so excited Buffy came to him for some “slayer” stuff, he was almost like a little kid..
It should have happened at-least 6 times already in this series but their misunderstanding and hate for the Buffy/Angel relationship and their need to crack jokes instead of let an emotional storyline play out properly is why they’re at this point.
@@shiranuiaensland1442 I meeeeeeeeaaaannnn…he is the one that cracks the most cheesy quips at the wrong time soooo…….lol as long as the 2 on the end continue to rain them in during actual excellent story building and amazingly acted scenes, I’ll be able to continue tolerating them watching my favorite episodes
@@notyouraveragebear9326I mean I don't blame them because they wouldn't enjoy it as much if they didn't. I couldn't take a single scene with Angel (In Buffy) seriously because he just made me laugh (and the alternative would probably be me criticising him/them so that at least kept me more engaged). Some scenes with Buffy specifically made me feel bad for her, but the ridiculousness of Angel wouldn't let me be sad for him - like I preferred his addition to the show and could take it more seriously when he was evil. Like I said, there were emotions in the earlier stuff for me - and I feel like there was for the Normies as well - but it wasn't really around Angel and I feel like it's ridiculous to be upset about that since it's a decently sized chunk of the fanbase who feel that way
It’s nice that the Normies recognize that Oz’s decision to leave was healthy. He seemed pretty shaken up about his inability to kept the monster/animal inside him in check and how it was affecting his decisions as a man. He also hurt Willow which I believe he would never do if he wasn’t fighting his inner animal instincts.
nah. Willow was kinda toxic. Didn't she cheat on Oz? But Oz (seemingly) does the same and she wants to curse him with demonic shit. The reason it was good he left is because willow was about to murder/curse Oz, which is crazy toxic.
@@XpVersusVistaYou say that "conveniently" missing the part where she stopped her ritual of her own volition. Veruca didn't interrupt her, she didn't see Oz, no one talked her down...she was hurt and pissed, went from sadness to anger in the stages of grief, but pulled it together and stopped when she realized she wouldn't hurt Oz, not like that. Also funny in your multiple comments you also fail to mention how, when Willow's cheating was discovered, she immediately admitted fault and accepted separation from Oz...whereas Oz tried to make excuses and deflect and never even tried to apologize. Both were in the wrong for what they did when they cheated, but don't try to rewrite events as if Oz handled being caught in a better manner than Willow or act like Willow laid a curse on Oz already and just reversed it after or some shit.
Yeah..in today's society you better believe the typical respond is Oz equals guys bad with no regard to what he was going through. I was happily surprised the normies didn't go there and understood that both Willow and Oz were suffering.
Part of the whole Oz "cool guy" persona is a need for control -- control of his emotions, control over his life, not asking for help. Becoming a werewolf was probably more disturbing for him than it would be to most people. He's deeply ashamed of his wolf side. Three nights a month, he has absolutely no control over himself. He's been trying to control the lack of control ever since, but without asking anyone for help. Then this crisis with Veruca leads him to make a series of bad decisions. He's too ashamed of his wolf feelings to tell Willow, he doesn't ask Buffy and Giles to help control Veruca. And then he leaves. What's he going to do at the next full moon when he's living in a hotel somewhere with no friends and no place to lock himself up? Sunnydale should be one of the best places to find help. Giles and Willow can research occult solutions, Buffy can help physically control him if needed, he has friends and a devoted girlfriend who can support him if he lets them. He just can't let them.
Ppl don’t make parallels to “Fear Itself.” Oz..”I’m not gonna change, I’m not gonna change..” “Willow, get away from me..” and Willow..”Oz..don’t leave me..don’t leave me!!”
Oz and Willow were the ultimate couple in the show at this point. While Cordelia and Xander fell apart after Willow and Xander cheated, Willow and Oz fought through it and survived. While Buffy and Angel fell apart, Willow and Oz survived. They are such a stable couple at the beginning of this episode! I feel like it makes their destruction all the more heartbreaking...we didn’t see it coming at all!
nah, Willow was hella toxic. Not sure what she tried to do with the curse here, but it sounded massive (Including demons and hell in the incantation), all because he has a curse that makes him lose his control? Even if he was a regular dude and cheated on her it would still be massively toxic to go to such lenghts (like poisoning a blyfriend after he cheated on you), but in this case it's even worse due to the werewolf curse. Willow here was toxic as fuck.
@@XpVersusVista Pretty sure from the phrasing of the incantation she was trying to make Oz hate Veruca. She couldn't go through with it because cursing Oz was too far for her. If she had gone through with it, then I would have harsher criticisms for Willow. People do wild things when they find out they are being cheated on. She couldn't bring herself to do it though, despite her rage and pain, which I think makes a difference. She definitely didn't handle it as well as Oz did, but I wouldn't say she was 'toxic as fuck'. Oz was in the wrong here, and Willow almost committed a second wrong, but didn't.
@@withxoutxlifeNot to mention, comparing how Oz handled getting caught compared to Willow, Willow at least admitted guilt, didn't fight it, and accepted the separation and tried to win Oz back eventually. Oz deflected blame, tried to make excuses (as if the incident in the cage wasn't instigated by him calling Veruca there then pulling her in for a kiss *well before* either transformed), and tried the game of convincing himself as much of Willow of his actions being under the guise of helping with the Veruca situation. Not to mention being dishonest with Willow and Buffy too for the sake of protecting Veruca and hiding what they had. Both are/were very in the wrong with how they handled things, and it's fine because it makes them feel like believable people in situations like this. But acting like Willow was somehow way worse in both scenarios is legitimately rewriting events.
@@Mrryn he has excuses, he didnt cheat. Veruca pretty much assualted him and used the fact he couldnt control his wolf form to manipulate him and be with him. Oz shouldnt of kept it a secret but he was dealing with alot and was trying to spare willows feelings. And he was already loosing control when he almost " kissed" her. And he wasnt trying to protect her, he was trying to deal with it on his own like he does. The only one rewriting crap is you and willow was toxic. She cheated on oz and tried to act as if him " cheating" was just as bad when agian he doesnt have control he cant consent. Not to mention she was planning to use magic on him which is not ok.
It's pretty hard to avoid the feels when Allison Hannigan cries, plus she has the best cry face. In an interview Joss Whedon said the crew had to brace themselves because, "Allison is crying today." The cries get more intense from here.
"imagine bumping into a guy dressed in a commando uniform and then being like oops I dropped my gun excuse me" That's just living in the American south
When Oz says they sounded tight, that isn't the typical slang he is saying, it is a musician slang, meaning the band sounded good together as a unit, they matched, were in time, etc...
tbh i think he would've eventually left anyways. part of the reason for his departure was cause he wasn't happy with the direction they were taking his character
@@cherryfreckle He didn't really have a direction though. They couldn't really write for him because he had to leave to do movies for months at a time. The only storyline he had was when he was introduced, when Willow cheated which lead to him disappearing for a while, and now that he is leaving lol
This episode devastated me when I watched it. Oz and Willow we're my favourite couple so watching that van drive away and the episode just end broke my heart.
Chris: "imagine living somewhere bumping into a dude dressed as a full-on Commando with a gun and be like "Oh shit I dropped my gun, you dropped yours, excuse me."" I do live in a place like, it's called the USA. That's why you have to write your initials on your gun, so you don't mix it up with someone else's by accident.
Sometimes I think TH-cam just doesn't want to keep track of my BtVS reaction watching and decides to not put one in my notifications. If I didn't know they uploaded on Thursday, I would have missed it. I like that the Normies recognize Oz's decision was the need to go. The show gears him towards blame because of Willow being an OG 4 main character that not everyone sees his perspective in the episode. Behind the scenes Seth Green was getting job offers and turning some of them down, but becoming a more popular actor. So when S4 came along he met with the writers, talking to them about Oz's role in the series. It was decided that his movie offers he was turning down would be more lucrative than trying to make Oz a more permanent person to the Scoobies, which wasn't Oz's forte. Thus this episode happened after realizing they weren't going to have the actor available the rest of the season. The writers had hoped to make everything that happened in this episode a season-long arc, but with Seth Green's offers, the arc was reduced from _Living Conditions_ to this episode. I used to think Veruca's tattoos were makeup mistakes (or something on my screen at one point also) because I couldn't make them out. They also don't give away dining sets on Jeopardy. I've seen so many people blame Oz for what happens in this episode (especially the sex when they aren't werewolves), but the point of his arc since _Living Conditions_ is that, ""The wolf is inside [him] all the time, and [he doesn't] know where that line is anymore between [him] and it," the werewolf has control over him and has been slowly taking control since that episode. Therefore fans cannot guarantee when Oz has been in control and when the werewolf has been in control, especially at the height of ID emotions. But not really at any time since Veruca triggered him in the same way post sex triggered Angel's curse. Willow assumes Veruca dying means things can go back to before Oz ever saw her, but the problem isn't Veruca. She just allowed the wolf to gain an upper hand (for use of a better phrase) over Oz, which was always going to happen eventually. Even as Oz is saying goodbye at the end, she still doesn't get that (still making a horribly wrong assumption about Oz feeling something for Veruca) and won't take responsibility for attempting the spell on taking away Oz's ability to love, which is why I dislike her asking Oz, "Don't you love me anymore?" Oz had to leave because of his werewolf being out of control, but also because Willow attempted a spell he wasn't even aware of to take his ability to love away. Relationship-wise, it doesn't matter that she stopped, it matters that she was willing to do so (to the point of getting that far into the spell) in the first place. Their relationship had problems beyond the werewolf and Veruca, if that was Willow's response and they weren't properly communicating. I think the Scoobies made a mistake now that they have a new Oz/werewolf cage. They stopped watching him. It wouldn't have stopped the overall Werewolf/Oz problem, but it could have prolonged it, thus allowing a different trigger besides Veruca to set off the werewolf gaining control. I don't mind Buffy being there for Willow, but I think this episode showed how much an outsider to the rest of the group Oz is. In _Lover's Walk,_ Buffy comforts Willow after she finds out Oz needs time and space for Willow's indiscretion. In this episode, Buffy looks at Oz point blank and says, "Now might be a good time for your trademark stoicism." It even says a lot that Xander doesn't ask Oz what's going on after Willow asks him guy territory questions. It shows Oz wasn't a friend to anyone in the group. Willow cheated and Oz was out of the group. When the werewolf had issues, Willow assumed Oz cheated and the group treats him badly for it. Even back in _Becoming Part 2,_ Oz says, "Okay, I pretty much missed out on some stuff, didn't I? Because this is all making the kind of sense that's... not." He wasn't really connected to anyone other than being Willow's boyfriend. Buffy told Oz that had she caught Veruca, she would have put said werewolf in the same cage with Oz, thus resulting in the same/similar outcome as what happened. So Oz admitting to the group what was going on wouldn't have changed much, if anything. Had Seth Green stayed for a whole S4 leaving arc, like what the writers hoped when he decided movies offers were more lucrative, Oz probably would have admitted what was happening to the group. In that scenario, fans would see the slow deterioration of Oz and Willow's relationship before he left town. This way was just more quick. And on top of that, even if things had changed, the wolf was still triggered as of _Living Conditions,_ and killing Veruca doesn't solve anything. Oz, by the point in the episode of when he would've told the group what was happening, was losing control. He just couldn't do anything about it except leave town. Telling Buffy and forcing her to find somewhere else for Veruca (not easy as Buffy would have come up with that herself if she had another place for a second werewolf to begin with) wouldn't have solved anything. Gaining a semblance of control back also involved killing Veruca, which was difficult with the wolf slowly gaining control. It took Willow being in danger for Oz to have temporary control as a wolf, which was gone the second Veruca was dead. And it also didn't take away the overall problem.
Is it really an f-up if you have an uncontrobeast inside you that completely takes over and goes into werewolf heat with another werewolf? Just asking. 🤷🏾♀️
I’m also excited the closer we get to Hush, I know you watched that a long time ago, so, it’ll be interesting for you to compare (if you remember at all) how now knowing all the backstory improves the episode..it’s entertaining on its own, but having the inertia from the previous seasons makes it much more meaningful!
Mark 11:35. Unless you're viewing the daytime edition. The OKC affiliate has Ken's edition followed by Mayim's edition, leaving the celebrity editions for prime time. But back then, it was still Alex for all of it!
I was so sad when I saw this the first time, because they were the healthiest couple, even through her cheating. But it sucks, because I don't think he wanted it at all even the second time, but he heard Buffy talk about the professor seeing two rabid dogs, and he knew it was the two of them and he knows how dangerous they are. Offering himself to her was the only way that she would say yes to staying in the cage and not hurting anyone. It sucks, because I don't think he wanted to make Willow go through what he went through, but makeing sure people will be safe is what they do by now. While I don't think Oz would ever go as low as staying with her just to cheat as payback, it is understandable his defense reaction made him say that. Still, it was not the same as Willow and Xander, they had a whole affair. Oz only chose to kiss the she-wolf once and it was already under the effect of the full moon and also with that sacrificial reasoning behind it. Willow and Xander had multiple encounters throughout weeks and honestly, they didn't have sex bc they were both virgins at that point. But even after that, Willow and OZ were strong and it sucks they went with a sort of a cheating storyline for him, but I like that it was not the reason they broke up at all. If he thought he wasn't dangerous, they probably would have stayed together, because she understands that he is not the wolf and I believe he had forgiven her for the Xander thing too by then.
Alison turned the acting to 11 in this episode DAYMN SON I watched buffy when I was a kid and my memory of everything after highschool is super vague so seeing this it's crazy to me in so many ways. Anyway Buffy prooves to be well known for a daymn good reason, it's just great!
Mark 16:13. "T. A."! That's funny because of "T & A"! (Actress Sybil Danning was the hostess of a series called "Celebrity T & A" based on a magazine about actress nudity in movies and television, including her own such scenes. Texas has at least two truck stops that have confused and disappointed tourists expecting to see sexy waitresses because of their similar name. But now their logo looks like that for "American Airlines" with a "T" where the first "A" would be, ever since 9/11.) Rana's prediction is funny to those of us who know the future! 😁
Mark 5:13. Quite the contrast to "My Stepmother is an Alien" when he's still trying to get her father's approval just to ask her out. Or was it hers? 🤔 If I recall correctly, kissing was as far as he got.
Another episode that leaves us wonder. I like this episode because it showed just how determined OZ really is. Willing to leave Willow to save her. Good reactions.
I hate this narcissistic argument. If someone deliberately helps someone hurt someone else, they are responsible. If a person knocks on your door and says "hey, I hate my girlfriend, can I borrow a knife? I'm going to hurt her." And you go say "sure, go ahead, here you go!", guess what? When the police show up, you're getting in trouble too. "But I'm not her partner, I don't owe her anything!" is not an excuse for helping someone hurt someone else. Deliberately. You knew he would hurt her and you helped. You are responsible too. Obviously. And for a non-physical example, if someone says "I want to lie to my girlfriend, I was cheating with her sister but I need an alibi so she doesn't know that. Can you say I was with you at a party full of other people?" And you say "Sure!" Guess what? You're a terrible person. It doesn't matter that you don't know her or "don't owe her anything". You know it's wrong to deceive people. You know cheating is wrong. This isn't complicated. Your morals have to be really warped to think such a thing is acceptable.
@@AshleyG24601fan nope. If I’m fucking someone and it turns out they’re married, that’s their issue. He cheated on HIS commitment. I didn’t cheat on anything. Im single. Put the blame on the one that betrayed you. Period.
Recently I have heard this argument a lot and I don't really agree. If you know a guy has a partner and you choose to sleep with him, you are still guilty, maybe not as guilty as the guy but you are still at fault.
1K Thumbs Up + Mine! 👍 You're welcome! Thanks! 😊 Notes: Trivia Time! Which Nathan Fillion television series references two of his previous television series roles? 🤔 📺
16:27 "Riley and Willow might end up together" Ngl That was my first thought. A few people, more specially Passion of the Nerd had a similiar observation. I don't mind what they did with Willow later this season but Willow and Riley wouldn't have been a bad ship.
Werewolf Slayer. XD So there's a show called Big Wolf on Campus. The main character is a werewolf, and every episode is like a parody of another show/movie/genre. And one episode, has a werewolf slayer. It's a parody of Buffy. Muffy, the Werewolf Slayer. XD
Howdy! 🤠 I'm not ready to view it yet! But I needed to share some "trivia" first before I could resume sleeping. Ahem. Charisma Carpenter and the cast of the original "Charmed" and their tattoos! (By the way, CC played "Kara The Seer" too briefly. 😕 Sexy costume! 😍 ) "Cordelia" doesn't like tattoos, yet her portrayer got one anyway. So, any that you accidentally see on fictional "CC" belong to factual CC instead! (Tattoos have a mystical meaning in both series, by the way!) Have you heard "Cordelia Chase" rant about them yet? 🤔 Charisma's so-called "tramp stamp" tattoo is that of a sun 🌞 rising or setting at her low-rise jeans waistline. 👖 (Her "Playboy Magazine" pictorial shows it off very well.) Her wardrobe and makeup people tried to hide it if the episode director cared enough to request it. For viewers at home that drank, it became a drinking game of sorts to drink whenever they saw her nonexistent sunrise or sunset! Same issues with the original "Charmed" cast members! Their tattoos came and went at the whims of the directors! Same as with the kitchen support beam in "Friends"! It was moved around as needed to accommodate the cameras. Sometimes, they forgot to put it back! 😁
Yeah it sounded like they didn't know what monosyllabic meant. Chris had to explain it. I'm guessing they thought it was something dirty idk. I was confused by their reaction as well😅
Haha thanks yall! Yeah I could tell Pat didn't understand and saw Chris explain, but when like 4 of them reacted so big I started overthinking to find an explanation lol
That would have been interesting, if Buffy and the commando guy switched guns. Buffy pulls the trigger to shoot Oz and the electric blast comes out instead.
People dismiss and write off “Fear Itself” as a funny episode, but it foreshadows many things, and not just in this season. Oz is terrified of hurting Willow and says “get away from me Willow!” and “I’m not gonna change..I’m not gonna change..!” and Willow..”Oz..don’t leave me..don’t leave me!” I’ll leave the other spoilers for later out.
Rana is right, Alyson Hannigan was really good in this episode, the only reason I am not that impressed, is because she gets even better in a couple of future episodes.
Mark 9:47. Hmm. I still don't know if it's the differences between decades or being liberal or conservative here. 🤔 But only in fiction have I seen people in their underwear doing laundry in public laundry places, especially in a college dormitory.
I would honestly rather forget that this episode exists. Oz and Willow had the best relationship on the show for a long time, and the Veruca bullshit absolutely destroyed all of that. Also, Oz is NOT the type of person to throw the Xander/Willow thing in her face. He was right, but that was so out of character. Forced writing to ruin Oz because Seth Green had a movie career in the 90s.
Eh, Oz desperately needed flaws. Part of why Seth left is the character had virtually nothing to him. He was just a nearly-silent background boyfriend prop. Making the wolf a real issue, and giving him actual human reactions like saying t he wrong thing when stressed and upset humanized him and could entirely be within character considering we literally never got to see more than skin deep with him.
Marketa saying that Spike is like Team Rocket might be the single most astute Buffy observation I've heard in my life.
Nah Spike's plans are honestly solid, pretty much all of them would have worked if it wasn't for things he couldn't possibly have expected.
His first plan to kill Buffy failed because she's basically the only Slayer ever to have allies and family backing her up. Second plan failed because Kendra showed up which nobody expected. Then Angelus screwed everything up and went against Spikes advice while Spike was recovering.
Then Spike actually gets a win by pitting Angel and Buffy against eachother while he escapes with Dru. The only time he really screwed up was losing the ring this season (and even then, his plan to get it back in Angel would have worked if Oz didn't unexpectedly show up.)
The directionless Giles scenes hit a lot different now that I'm basically his age.
wish I was still that age >
Same! lol
It’s great because even in his state, he’s still getting character development. He was so excited Buffy came to him for some “slayer” stuff, he was almost like a little kid..
The Normies, being excited Spike is back: 🤩
Me, knowing what's about to happen: 🤭
When Willow cries, I cry.
Rule of life.
Dude. Same
Yeah
The Normies actually got sad in a Buffy episode. Perhaps the drama is finally getting to them.
Won’t be the last time
It should have happened at-least 6 times already in this series but their misunderstanding and hate for the Buffy/Angel relationship and their need to crack jokes instead of let an emotional storyline play out properly is why they’re at this point.
@@notyouraveragebear9326 Maybe it was all Micky's fault. lol
@@shiranuiaensland1442 I meeeeeeeeaaaannnn…he is the one that cracks the most cheesy quips at the wrong time soooo…….lol as long as the 2 on the end continue to rain them in during actual excellent story building and amazingly acted scenes, I’ll be able to continue tolerating them watching my favorite episodes
@@notyouraveragebear9326I mean I don't blame them because they wouldn't enjoy it as much if they didn't. I couldn't take a single scene with Angel (In Buffy) seriously because he just made me laugh (and the alternative would probably be me criticising him/them so that at least kept me more engaged). Some scenes with Buffy specifically made me feel bad for her, but the ridiculousness of Angel wouldn't let me be sad for him - like I preferred his addition to the show and could take it more seriously when he was evil.
Like I said, there were emotions in the earlier stuff for me - and I feel like there was for the Normies as well - but it wasn't really around Angel and I feel like it's ridiculous to be upset about that since it's a decently sized chunk of the fanbase who feel that way
It’s nice that the Normies recognize that Oz’s decision to leave was healthy. He seemed pretty shaken up about his inability to kept the monster/animal inside him in check and how it was affecting his decisions as a man. He also hurt Willow which I believe he would never do if he wasn’t fighting his inner animal instincts.
nah. Willow was kinda toxic. Didn't she cheat on Oz? But Oz (seemingly) does the same and she wants to curse him with demonic shit.
The reason it was good he left is because willow was about to murder/curse Oz, which is crazy toxic.
@@XpVersusVista both legit reasons
@@XpVersusVistaYou say that "conveniently" missing the part where she stopped her ritual of her own volition. Veruca didn't interrupt her, she didn't see Oz, no one talked her down...she was hurt and pissed, went from sadness to anger in the stages of grief, but pulled it together and stopped when she realized she wouldn't hurt Oz, not like that.
Also funny in your multiple comments you also fail to mention how, when Willow's cheating was discovered, she immediately admitted fault and accepted separation from Oz...whereas Oz tried to make excuses and deflect and never even tried to apologize. Both were in the wrong for what they did when they cheated, but don't try to rewrite events as if Oz handled being caught in a better manner than Willow or act like Willow laid a curse on Oz already and just reversed it after or some shit.
Yeah..in today's society you better believe the typical respond is Oz equals guys bad with no regard to what he was going through. I was happily surprised the normies didn't go there and understood that both Willow and Oz were suffering.
@@XpVersusVista 😂 tell me your angry about a future season without saying a damn word:
No one breaks my heart like Alyson Hannigan when she cries. Poor Willow 💔
It’s sad to see Oz go, he had such a cool down to earth and calming demeanor, plus he helped keep the group grounded. He will be missed.
The chillest dude in the world has a raging beast hidden inside.
He kept everyone grounded except himself.
He's like Team Rocket 🤣
😂😂😂
The absolute best
Salut Cassim ! Fait un bisous à Étienne de ma part
@@angeliquesantos774 Mais, mais, mais bonsoir ! Incroyable, le monde est petit haha
Part of the whole Oz "cool guy" persona is a need for control -- control of his emotions, control over his life, not asking for help. Becoming a werewolf was probably more disturbing for him than it would be to most people. He's deeply ashamed of his wolf side. Three nights a month, he has absolutely no control over himself. He's been trying to control the lack of control ever since, but without asking anyone for help. Then this crisis with Veruca leads him to make a series of bad decisions. He's too ashamed of his wolf feelings to tell Willow, he doesn't ask Buffy and Giles to help control Veruca. And then he leaves. What's he going to do at the next full moon when he's living in a hotel somewhere with no friends and no place to lock himself up? Sunnydale should be one of the best places to find help. Giles and Willow can research occult solutions, Buffy can help physically control him if needed, he has friends and a devoted girlfriend who can support him if he lets them. He just can't let them.
Ppl don’t make parallels to “Fear Itself.” Oz..”I’m not gonna change, I’m not gonna change..” “Willow, get away from me..” and Willow..”Oz..don’t leave me..don’t leave me!!”
"Don't leave me. Oz, don't leave me." Willow's fear came true.
seeing Marketa get teary-eyed makes me teary-eyed :(
“Don’t you love me?”
“My whole life, I’ve never loved anything else.”😢
Oz and Willow were the ultimate couple in the show at this point. While Cordelia and Xander fell apart after Willow and Xander cheated, Willow and Oz fought through it and survived. While Buffy and Angel fell apart, Willow and Oz survived. They are such a stable couple at the beginning of this episode! I feel like it makes their destruction all the more heartbreaking...we didn’t see it coming at all!
nah, Willow was hella toxic. Not sure what she tried to do with the curse here, but it sounded massive (Including demons and hell in the incantation), all because he has a curse that makes him lose his control? Even if he was a regular dude and cheated on her it would still be massively toxic to go to such lenghts (like poisoning a blyfriend after he cheated on you), but in this case it's even worse due to the werewolf curse.
Willow here was toxic as fuck.
@@XpVersusVista Pretty sure from the phrasing of the incantation she was trying to make Oz hate Veruca. She couldn't go through with it because cursing Oz was too far for her. If she had gone through with it, then I would have harsher criticisms for Willow. People do wild things when they find out they are being cheated on. She couldn't bring herself to do it though, despite her rage and pain, which I think makes a difference. She definitely didn't handle it as well as Oz did, but I wouldn't say she was 'toxic as fuck'. Oz was in the wrong here, and Willow almost committed a second wrong, but didn't.
@@withxoutxlifeNot to mention, comparing how Oz handled getting caught compared to Willow, Willow at least admitted guilt, didn't fight it, and accepted the separation and tried to win Oz back eventually. Oz deflected blame, tried to make excuses (as if the incident in the cage wasn't instigated by him calling Veruca there then pulling her in for a kiss *well before* either transformed), and tried the game of convincing himself as much of Willow of his actions being under the guise of helping with the Veruca situation. Not to mention being dishonest with Willow and Buffy too for the sake of protecting Veruca and hiding what they had.
Both are/were very in the wrong with how they handled things, and it's fine because it makes them feel like believable people in situations like this. But acting like Willow was somehow way worse in both scenarios is legitimately rewriting events.
@@Mrryn he has excuses, he didnt cheat. Veruca pretty much assualted him and used the fact he couldnt control his wolf form to manipulate him and be with him. Oz shouldnt of kept it a secret but he was dealing with alot and was trying to spare willows feelings. And he was already loosing control when he almost " kissed" her. And he wasnt trying to protect her, he was trying to deal with it on his own like he does. The only one rewriting crap is you and willow was toxic. She cheated on oz and tried to act as if him " cheating" was just as bad when agian he doesnt have control he cant consent. Not to mention she was planning to use magic on him which is not ok.
@@Sophiesagegames wow..talk about not understanding the plot..
Sad Willow breaks everybody's hearts.
Spike is team rocket for sure xD
Fear Itself. Oz's biggest fear was that he would lose control of the wolf and hurt Willow.
And her fear was “Oz don’t leave me!..don’t leave me….!”
@@johncspine2787 Her fear concerned her magical abilities.
@@jp3813 nope. She was confident about pressing ahead to learn more. She said “Oz..don’t leave me!” several times in the Fear house..
@@johncspine2787 That was an echo during Oz's fear sequence. When Buffy found Willow, the latter was repeatedly yelling "get 'em off me".
Willow crying after Oz leaves has stayed with me for 20 god damn years. Those huge eyes and that wonderful performance.
It's pretty hard to avoid the feels when Allison Hannigan cries, plus she has the best cry face. In an interview Joss Whedon said the crew had to brace themselves because, "Allison is crying today." The cries get more intense from here.
Haha Spike is totally Team Rocket.
"imagine bumping into a guy dressed in a commando uniform and then being like oops I dropped my gun excuse me"
That's just living in the American south
When Oz says they sounded tight, that isn't the typical slang he is saying, it is a musician slang, meaning the band sounded good together as a unit, they matched, were in time, etc...
If only Seth Green's career wasn't on fire in the 90s we could have had more Oz. Ah well. This is such a great ep.
tbh i think he would've eventually left anyways. part of the reason for his departure was cause he wasn't happy with the direction they were taking his character
@@cherryfreckle He didn't really have a direction though. They couldn't really write for him because he had to leave to do movies for months at a time. The only storyline he had was when he was introduced, when Willow cheated which lead to him disappearing for a while, and now that he is leaving lol
Lol, I never noticed how strong the dad humor is with Buffy is until watching her with the Normies. The heartburn pun, the Rolling Stones joke. 😂
Chris: I could have been on the show. "Oh my god, Buffy, don't let them eat my parents!"
🤣🤣🤣
Omg, Spike IS like Team Rocket lol, I've never realized that
Joss and Seth Green do a commentary for this episode, and it's hilarious LOL - highly recommend!
Marti Noxon too!
Best commentary track of them all!
I don't drop character til I done a DVD commentary
1:04 "Tarantulino" 😅 a bojack reference in a buffy reaction! thank you Marketa
Good thing Riley took the Initiative and saved Willow there…
See what you did there.
This episode devastated me when I watched it. Oz and Willow we're my favourite couple so watching that van drive away and the episode just end broke my heart.
Even after all these years, this episode hurts. Great reaction as always.
Chris: "imagine living somewhere bumping into a dude dressed as a full-on Commando with a gun and be like "Oh shit I dropped my gun, you dropped yours, excuse me.""
I do live in a place like, it's called the USA. That's why you have to write your initials on your gun, so you don't mix it up with someone else's by accident.
Sometimes I think TH-cam just doesn't want to keep track of my BtVS reaction watching and decides to not put one in my notifications. If I didn't know they uploaded on Thursday, I would have missed it.
I like that the Normies recognize Oz's decision was the need to go. The show gears him towards blame because of Willow being an OG 4 main character that not everyone sees his perspective in the episode.
Behind the scenes Seth Green was getting job offers and turning some of them down, but becoming a more popular actor. So when S4 came along he met with the writers, talking to them about Oz's role in the series. It was decided that his movie offers he was turning down would be more lucrative than trying to make Oz a more permanent person to the Scoobies, which wasn't Oz's forte. Thus this episode happened after realizing they weren't going to have the actor available the rest of the season. The writers had hoped to make everything that happened in this episode a season-long arc, but with Seth Green's offers, the arc was reduced from _Living Conditions_ to this episode.
I used to think Veruca's tattoos were makeup mistakes (or something on my screen at one point also) because I couldn't make them out.
They also don't give away dining sets on Jeopardy.
I've seen so many people blame Oz for what happens in this episode (especially the sex when they aren't werewolves), but the point of his arc since _Living Conditions_ is that, ""The wolf is inside [him] all the time, and [he doesn't] know where that line is anymore between [him] and it," the werewolf has control over him and has been slowly taking control since that episode. Therefore fans cannot guarantee when Oz has been in control and when the werewolf has been in control, especially at the height of ID emotions. But not really at any time since Veruca triggered him in the same way post sex triggered Angel's curse. Willow assumes Veruca dying means things can go back to before Oz ever saw her, but the problem isn't Veruca. She just allowed the wolf to gain an upper hand (for use of a better phrase) over Oz, which was always going to happen eventually. Even as Oz is saying goodbye at the end, she still doesn't get that (still making a horribly wrong assumption about Oz feeling something for Veruca) and won't take responsibility for attempting the spell on taking away Oz's ability to love, which is why I dislike her asking Oz, "Don't you love me anymore?" Oz had to leave because of his werewolf being out of control, but also because Willow attempted a spell he wasn't even aware of to take his ability to love away. Relationship-wise, it doesn't matter that she stopped, it matters that she was willing to do so (to the point of getting that far into the spell) in the first place. Their relationship had problems beyond the werewolf and Veruca, if that was Willow's response and they weren't properly communicating.
I think the Scoobies made a mistake now that they have a new Oz/werewolf cage. They stopped watching him. It wouldn't have stopped the overall Werewolf/Oz problem, but it could have prolonged it, thus allowing a different trigger besides Veruca to set off the werewolf gaining control.
I don't mind Buffy being there for Willow, but I think this episode showed how much an outsider to the rest of the group Oz is. In _Lover's Walk,_ Buffy comforts Willow after she finds out Oz needs time and space for Willow's indiscretion. In this episode, Buffy looks at Oz point blank and says, "Now might be a good time for your trademark stoicism." It even says a lot that Xander doesn't ask Oz what's going on after Willow asks him guy territory questions. It shows Oz wasn't a friend to anyone in the group. Willow cheated and Oz was out of the group. When the werewolf had issues, Willow assumed Oz cheated and the group treats him badly for it. Even back in _Becoming Part 2,_ Oz says, "Okay, I pretty much missed out on some stuff, didn't I? Because this is all making the kind of sense that's... not." He wasn't really connected to anyone other than being Willow's boyfriend.
Buffy told Oz that had she caught Veruca, she would have put said werewolf in the same cage with Oz, thus resulting in the same/similar outcome as what happened. So Oz admitting to the group what was going on wouldn't have changed much, if anything. Had Seth Green stayed for a whole S4 leaving arc, like what the writers hoped when he decided movies offers were more lucrative, Oz probably would have admitted what was happening to the group. In that scenario, fans would see the slow deterioration of Oz and Willow's relationship before he left town. This way was just more quick. And on top of that, even if things had changed, the wolf was still triggered as of _Living Conditions,_ and killing Veruca doesn't solve anything. Oz, by the point in the episode of when he would've told the group what was happening, was losing control. He just couldn't do anything about it except leave town. Telling Buffy and forcing her to find somewhere else for Veruca (not easy as Buffy would have come up with that herself if she had another place for a second werewolf to begin with) wouldn't have solved anything. Gaining a semblance of control back also involved killing Veruca, which was difficult with the wolf slowly gaining control. It took Willow being in danger for Oz to have temporary control as a wolf, which was gone the second Veruca was dead. And it also didn't take away the overall problem.
Rana has never seen a Nic Cage or Quintin Tarantino film?! We need a Nic Cage and/or Tarantino reaction movie month from The Normies.
Ikr! I don't know why the others haven't thought to make a feature out of it. "Rana's first time watching...."
They've already had a Cage month but I'm so keen for some Tarantino
12 hours of Nic Cage's feet
Part 2 of the Oz and Willow trilogy. One of my favorite stories in the series.
Such a great episode 🐾
I completely forgot that Oz throws the Willow/Xander thing in her face to try to cover up his f up. Oof!
Is it really an f-up if you have an uncontrobeast inside you that completely takes over and goes into werewolf heat with another werewolf? Just asking. 🤷🏾♀️
Yes, Oz and his Mystery Van have headed into the sunset. How will they get along without him? Hmm? I'll never tell. 😇
This episode broke me when I was about 14. Still one of the saddest episodes of television ever made.
I’m also excited the closer we get to Hush, I know you watched that a long time ago, so, it’ll be interesting for you to compare (if you remember at all) how now knowing all the backstory improves the episode..it’s entertaining on its own, but having the inertia from the previous seasons makes it much more meaningful!
aha, here we see the extremely rare Willow/Riley shipper in its natural habitat.
Love the fact they completely forgot about Spike.
Seth is so jacked.
Mark 11:35. Unless you're viewing the daytime edition. The OKC affiliate has Ken's edition followed by Mayim's edition, leaving the celebrity editions for prime time. But back then, it was still Alex for all of it!
I was so sad when I saw this the first time, because they were the healthiest couple, even through her cheating. But it sucks, because I don't think he wanted it at all even the second time, but he heard Buffy talk about the professor seeing two rabid dogs, and he knew it was the two of them and he knows how dangerous they are. Offering himself to her was the only way that she would say yes to staying in the cage and not hurting anyone. It sucks, because I don't think he wanted to make Willow go through what he went through, but makeing sure people will be safe is what they do by now.
While I don't think Oz would ever go as low as staying with her just to cheat as payback, it is understandable his defense reaction made him say that. Still, it was not the same as Willow and Xander, they had a whole affair. Oz only chose to kiss the she-wolf once and it was already under the effect of the full moon and also with that sacrificial reasoning behind it. Willow and Xander had multiple encounters throughout weeks and honestly, they didn't have sex bc they were both virgins at that point. But even after that, Willow and OZ were strong and it sucks they went with a sort of a cheating storyline for him, but I like that it was not the reason they broke up at all. If he thought he wasn't dangerous, they probably would have stayed together, because she understands that he is not the wolf and I believe he had forgiven her for the Xander thing too by then.
And Buffy may have given Oz the idea to trap Veruca, when she said "if I catch her, you may have a roommate in there."
Mark 17:32. It's funny how SG makes SMG look tall! 🤔 😁
Just thinking that after this episode the season really gets started imo anyway 😏
There's a common things throughout the seasons the episode 7 tends to be the turning point for the plot
Alison turned the acting to 11 in this episode DAYMN SON I watched buffy when I was a kid and my memory of everything after highschool is super vague so seeing this it's crazy to me in so many ways. Anyway Buffy prooves to be well known for a daymn good reason, it's just great!
Yeah, this ending broke me when it aired
The cage was not a long term solution.
Mark 16:13. "T. A."! That's funny because of "T & A"! (Actress Sybil Danning was the hostess of a series called "Celebrity T & A" based on a magazine about actress nudity in movies and television, including her own such scenes. Texas has at least two truck stops that have confused and disappointed tourists expecting to see sexy waitresses because of their similar name. But now their logo looks like that for "American Airlines" with a "T" where the first "A" would be, ever since 9/11.)
Rana's prediction is funny to those of us who know the future! 😁
"He can just control which face he's eating first" lmao
Mark 5:13. Quite the contrast to "My Stepmother is an Alien" when he's still trying to get her father's approval just to ask her out. Or was it hers? 🤔 If I recall correctly, kissing was as far as he got.
I wish there were two wolves inside me XD
Another episode that leaves us wonder. I like this episode because it showed just how determined OZ really is. Willing to leave Willow to save her. Good reactions.
I LOOOOOOOVE these reactions !!!!
I missed Oz when he went, with his monosyllabic sentences.😄
Another week another serviceable reaction 👍🏾
perfectly servicable
The girl didn't cheat on Willow lol. Oz did. Circumstances aside if anyone hurt Willow it was Oz.
Yeah she even said ‘put the blame where it belongs’
I hate this narcissistic argument. If someone deliberately helps someone hurt someone else, they are responsible.
If a person knocks on your door and says "hey, I hate my girlfriend, can I borrow a knife? I'm going to hurt her." And you go say "sure, go ahead, here you go!", guess what? When the police show up, you're getting in trouble too. "But I'm not her partner, I don't owe her anything!" is not an excuse for helping someone hurt someone else. Deliberately. You knew he would hurt her and you helped. You are responsible too. Obviously.
And for a non-physical example, if someone says "I want to lie to my girlfriend, I was cheating with her sister but I need an alibi so she doesn't know that. Can you say I was with you at a party full of other people?" And you say "Sure!" Guess what? You're a terrible person. It doesn't matter that you don't know her or "don't owe her anything". You know it's wrong to deceive people. You know cheating is wrong. This isn't complicated. Your morals have to be really warped to think such a thing is acceptable.
@@AshleyG24601fan nope. If I’m fucking someone and it turns out they’re married, that’s their issue. He cheated on HIS commitment. I didn’t cheat on anything. Im single. Put the blame on the one that betrayed you. Period.
Recently I have heard this argument a lot and I don't really agree. If you know a guy has a partner and you choose to sleep with him, you are still guilty, maybe not as guilty as the guy but you are still at fault.
1K Thumbs Up + Mine! 👍 You're welcome! Thanks! 😊
Notes: Trivia Time! Which Nathan Fillion television series references two of his previous television series roles? 🤔 📺
16:27 "Riley and Willow might end up together"
Ngl That was my first thought. A few people, more specially Passion of the Nerd had a similiar observation. I don't mind what they did with Willow later this season but Willow and Riley wouldn't have been a bad ship.
Same here! I liked their chemistry together, and I’d be curious to see how it might change the dynamic between Buffy and Willow.
Willow: Everything is predictable
Marketta: What the actual F?😳
Marketa = 🔥
Y’all should watch the commentary…one of the funniest ones with Joss, Marti Nixon and Seth Green..
Werewolf Slayer. XD So there's a show called Big Wolf on Campus. The main character is a werewolf, and every episode is like a parody of another show/movie/genre. And one episode, has a werewolf slayer. It's a parody of Buffy. Muffy, the Werewolf Slayer. XD
Poor Spike!
Howdy! 🤠 I'm not ready to view it yet! But I needed to share some "trivia" first before I could resume sleeping. Ahem.
Charisma Carpenter and the cast of the original "Charmed" and their tattoos! (By the way, CC played "Kara The Seer" too briefly. 😕 Sexy costume! 😍 ) "Cordelia" doesn't like tattoos, yet her portrayer got one anyway. So, any that you accidentally see on fictional "CC" belong to factual CC instead! (Tattoos have a mystical meaning in both series, by the way!) Have you heard "Cordelia Chase" rant about them yet? 🤔 Charisma's so-called "tramp stamp" tattoo is that of a sun 🌞 rising or setting at her low-rise jeans waistline. 👖 (Her "Playboy Magazine" pictorial shows it off very well.) Her wardrobe and makeup people tried to hide it if the episode director cared enough to request it.
For viewers at home that drank, it became a drinking game of sorts to drink whenever they saw her nonexistent sunrise or sunset!
Same issues with the original "Charmed" cast members! Their tattoos came and went at the whims of the directors!
Same as with the kitchen support beam in "Friends"! It was moved around as needed to accommodate the cameras. Sometimes, they forgot to put it back! 😁
Lol why did everyone react to Buffy calling Oz monosyllabic like that? Am I missing something?
They were just confused about what the word meant.
Yeah it sounded like they didn't know what monosyllabic meant. Chris had to explain it. I'm guessing they thought it was something dirty idk. I was confused by their reaction as well😅
Haha thanks yall! Yeah I could tell Pat didn't understand and saw Chris explain, but when like 4 of them reacted so big I started overthinking to find an explanation lol
2:08🤔🤔 am I the only one that just had a Robin Williams flashback😕🥴
And so a chapter ends what will the next intail
Anyone know what episode their Early Cut (not uncut) is on?
I love face/off, the rock, and family man … they’re great Nicholas cage movies
That would have been interesting, if Buffy and the commando guy switched guns. Buffy pulls the trigger to shoot Oz and the electric blast comes out instead.
Great reaction 💖💖💖 such a sad episode 💔💔💔
I wanna watch Big Wolf on Campus now.
Holdo was great! TLJ forever!
aw, marketa 😪she loves willow. which, BIG same. when she hurts, i hurt.
Soon 👄🤫💀🫀
Willow almost got hit by a car... But at least it was a mk4 Toyota Supra...
I know y'all it. Pat's okay with werewolves running around loose 🧐 I got my eye on you and vampire Rana too. 🖖😎👍
People dismiss and write off “Fear Itself” as a funny episode, but it foreshadows many things, and not just in this season. Oz is terrified of hurting Willow and says “get away from me Willow!” and “I’m not gonna change..I’m not gonna change..!” and Willow..”Oz..don’t leave me..don’t leave me!” I’ll leave the other spoilers for later out.
You guys should watch Raising Arizona. Quintessential Nick Cage.
Rana is right, Alyson Hannigan was really good in this episode, the only reason I am not that impressed, is because she gets even better in a couple of future episodes.
serious discussion about whether the wolf inside can be tamed or removed like there's a real scientific answer that isn't just made up by writers.
they say: willow and Buffy need to stop dating supernatural guys like Buffy isnt a vampire slayer an willow a witch 😂😂
Is it just me or does Verruca resemble Sydney Sweeney ???!
i saw this episode on mushrooms when it aired
You were sitting in a forest?
Shitake?
I hate Veruca.
That's it, that's all I wanted to say.
Mark 9:47. Hmm. I still don't know if it's the differences between decades or being liberal or conservative here. 🤔 But only in fiction have I seen people in their underwear doing laundry in public laundry places, especially in a college dormitory.
They weren’t “doing laundry.” They were stealing clothing..
@@johncspine2787 oh so? It looks the same as when people are doing laundry and one or more are in their underwear. 😁 Thanks for the clarification! 😊
💔
poor Willow
YO, wth happened with the Euphoria reactions?????????
Team Rocket☠🤣☠🤣☠🤣☠
😢😢😢
bazuka that verrucca
LOL. Imagine naming your child after a wart!🤣
I like season four.
Lol literally every take Pat has is terrible 😂
I would honestly rather forget that this episode exists. Oz and Willow had the best relationship on the show for a long time, and the Veruca bullshit absolutely destroyed all of that.
Also, Oz is NOT the type of person to throw the Xander/Willow thing in her face. He was right, but that was so out of character. Forced writing to ruin Oz because Seth Green had a movie career in the 90s.
I've heard Joss was *_that_* petty. Lol
Eh, Oz desperately needed flaws. Part of why Seth left is the character had virtually nothing to him. He was just a nearly-silent background boyfriend prop. Making the wolf a real issue, and giving him actual human reactions like saying t he wrong thing when stressed and upset humanized him and could entirely be within character considering we literally never got to see more than skin deep with him.
@@ameliacraiig4193 nope. Listen to Seth, with Joss And Marti on the commentary.