Where it all went WRONG for England? 🤔| Ward, Hussain, Morgan & Atherton DEBATE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ย. 2023
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Ian Ward is joined by Nasser Hussain, Eoin Morgan and Michael Atherton to break down England's World Cup campaign in India. It ended with consecutive wins over the Netherlands and Pakistan, but the damage was done going into their final game in Kolkata. But how much of a disappointment was the tournament? And who is to blame? Listen on to find out.
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The treatment of Malan is disgusting. He has been England's best white ball batter for the last few years, and yet he gets dropped, whereas players like Livingstone get a free pass (who has done nothing).
He did better than most out there with 404 runs at 44. Hard to know how many of the WC squad not in the ODI squad for the WI tour will ever play ODI cricket again,. 10 months is a long time till England next play 50 over cricket next September. It gives the selectors enough time to bury the memory of this World Cup and quietly move on from some of these players deemed in the twilight of their ODI careers. I think there may also be an element of ageism by the selectors with Malan turning 37 next year.
Rested?
@@redcoatcallum9550 No argument with that. Just seems another example of muddled thinking and decision making prior to, during and now after the World Cup. Wouldn’t be surprised if it forces Malan to announce his retirement from international cricket next year if he continues to be overlooked.
@@MichaelJordan-yy1sr-
Exactly, Livingston has been a total flop ,even in the IPL which he has been Playing the last 3years for Kings11/Punjab kings , except the first year when he was fairly good ,his performances in the last 2,years apart from his performances for England has been a kind of once in a blumoon Player,he is more a Part time bowling alrounder than a batsman allrounder , Livingston should have been dropped.
The way English Cricket board treated David Willey was disappointing he's a such a great bowler both in t20 and 50 over game, they lost a great asset
Tbf he is getting on abit and he can abit abit one dimensional. However the ECB giving contracts to players worse than him does prove what you say
His performance in that WC Final at Eden gardens in 2016 was very underrated
He is very similar to Chris Woakes, a bowling all rounder. England needed batting allrounders or pure bowlers
He had 2-3 years. Shouldn't have retired.
Dawid Malan too
In case anyone didn’t know, Eoin Morgan was there in 2015 and won the World Cup in 2019. Not sure he makes that clear enough.
Meanwhile, I've seen Australia win 4 WC's in 5 and 5 in my lifetime. Never heard someone try to claim one event so hard. Didn't they win on boundary countback after a super over at home? Australia have won in 5 in 5 continents: 1987 (Asia), 1999 (Europe), 2003 (Africa), 2007 (Americas), 2015 (Oceania/Australiasia).
@@kiriakoz but that boundary countback rule was in the rulebook of that 2019 World Cup.
@@kiriakoz hey I’m English so I’ll take the win in 2019 😂 but it annoys me how much he bangs on about the “disaster” of 2015 and the “journey” he took the team on in the following 4 years. We get it, move on!
The most one noted pundit at sky
2019 is the single most confused WC win ever. For all the hype of England team and playing in home conditions and winning because of number of boundaries says everything about how much the Poms being the greatest team??? It’s only Aussies who have won in diff countries than any other team period
Dropping hales,roy was biggest mistake for England..you can see the disappointment of nass,athe and morgan bcz when they came to India i think they were thought that their team will crush all teams
They never had the bowling to crush teams. They decided to thin their bowling which was never gonna help them
Hales is retired
@@dhirendrarath8001 after dropping from national squad hales took retirement
Typical fb pundit.. malan and bairstow are doing a better job.. just that bairstow didn't click this tournament.. Roy had been in poor form for the past 2 yr.. don't come up with stats.. just watch those matches
@sssaravanan9617 what ? Pls check previous bilaterals and ipls
I think the biggest problem is living off a World Cup that was “won” by a technicality believing that some how makes you the best team in the world. So they rocked up to this World Cup thinking it was just going to happen as they are “the best”
Malan has been the most consistent player this world cup. The ECB are a joke for dropping him like that
Eoin Morgan's responses are often poor. He thinks that the approach the team followed under his captaincy works everywhere and every time. He keeps insisting that the current team should have continued that. He could not be more wrong.
Truth is England played exactly like they are used to, and that has led to their doom in this WC in subcontinent conditions. They failed to adapt.
Nobody's approach works everytime, look at India or New Zealand for instance. They never win cups, only Australia or England has won ICC tournaments recently and the same will happen this time. Maybe in 2027 England will win and Australia will fail. The others are not a concern they cant win anyways
@@Meet_Your_Death Sure! But they were not at all competitive!
Also, Stokes, who came back from retirement, being one of their top scorers says a lot about their approach and planning.
England won recently and never before, you made it sound as if its normal for the English team to win world cups. What they are essentially good at is the hubris and the absolute lack of modesty and banging on about being revolutionaries of the game. Australia undoubtedly knows how to win the world cups, no argument there. But dont put them in the same bracket eh !
I don't understand this "bazball" claim, England didn't win ashes or test series in India with?
Yeah I agree. But I also think Eoin doesn't make it too clear what the approach was. Was it being aggressive? Or was it assigning roles to players? Or something else?
Funny fact : Pakistan England and Kenya have played the same number of OFIs world cups semi-finals in the 21st century..
Actually England played only 1 semi-final since 1992 😆
Another fun fact : new zealand is gonna beat india again
@@dennis65so what?? Where's the logic. Its about England
Fun fact in last 10 years uganda and india have won same amount of ICC trophies
@@ERICTENHAG56ten hag getting sacked by Christmas 😂
Is there something in Eoin's contract that forbids him from having a mic of his own? He never has one!
Maybe they could only afford three. Company cutbacks and all that….
It's because he is always sitting near the facilitator. The other too are far away from the facilitator. Its odd that they are mostly always in that sequence.
@@dharmensamant Even in the bus when it's just Atherton and Morgan, Morgan doesn't have a mic of his own.
Becoz he’s Irish 😉
England played poorly because they didn't give respect to the conditions or didn't give respect to the bowlers. In 50 over you need to access conditons and play accordingly. Because of t20 they have forgotten the importance of 1s and 2s. When things are not going well you need to keep your head down and grind those difficult phases which they failed to do so. You can't hit 4s/ 6s every ball. These analysts are not able to figure out what happened to them, lol. Bazball won't work everywhere in every condition. Good Teams will take advantage of that and will pick wickets. Also important factor was Joe Root's form plus lack of quality fast bowlers.
No big deal, England already has won 2 of the 4 ICC white ball tournaments. That's enough for now. I mean even Australia lost in 2011 after winning thrice, you cannot just say they didn't respect the conditions. You cant expect 1 team to win everytime.
@anuragchakraborty8766 By looking at your surname, it's quite obvious why you feel India is a poor country. No worries, be happy in your own world.
@@prateek29c Seriously, are you going to ignore Indian poverty just because of my name?
Do you have any idea how many Indians are currently living in poverty? That's what you should be focused on instead of analyzing England cricket.
@@YoTH-cam11 Gobar Bhakt spotted
@@anuragchakraborty8766 India is poor because all its wealth is looted by British just the word ‘loot’ in their dictionary. And they left few of their servants to rule.
2019 was a fluke victory for England. The trophy belonged to New Zealand. There wasn't an absolute domination from England that WC like Australia in 2003 and 2007. They lost to Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Australia in the league stage.
Can people stop saying that it was not a fluke England where the better side that final
So how did New Zealand deserve it..they came into the semi with 4 losses just like this time
And in 2003/2007 Aus didn’t play every team involved in the tournament like we did
It was a tie ..so did they play better than England @@AnonymousAlien2099
@@AnonymousAlien2099 when exactly did I say that? My point is that in previous formats, you avoided other teams in the group stage. Now you play everyone therefore more likely to lose games along the way
England got so badly beaten in the first game due to some poor bowling and great batting from NZ that they completely forgot what they'd been doing over the past few years, lost their identity and just didn't recover until the last few games
Yeah. NZ hammered England in that opening Fixture of CWC 23, which derailed the english
@@positivekumar3546England thrashed Ban after that match by a huge margin. They got derailed after they lost to Afghanistan in Delhi.
India & Australia field same team basically. Test or short format! Both played alot of cricket leading to this WC... arguments england tired doesn't wash with me!
I think it’s probably being over analysed. England have always been dud in India. Just like the test team are always dud in Australia. England not turning up for these big occasions isn’t new, we would have blown the 2019 WC at home if it wasn’t for a fluked deflection off Stokes bat. We will probably smash the Windies next month and beat Australia at home next summer, then all this will be forgotten.
Englands recent tour to West Indies has been pretty poor, so it could go the other way where they struggle against them and the World Cup failures get brought up again.
Australia record in England? No way.
I wonder when was the last time Eng won a bilaterial series in ind? They are a good side but in these conditions they dont have that balanced side specially in bowling
Think Cook was the last captain to win a bilateral series in India in any format.
The last time England won a bilateral ODI series in India was in 1985.
Their current batting approach will never work on such turning tracks. After losing wickets, you can't really hit your way out of trouble like you can on the flat decks they serve up in England. Some level of sensibility is required.
They came pretty close in 2017 but yes its been a long time. Australia on other hand has won last 2 of 4 ODI series in India(in 2023 and 2019)
In 2017 series they got humiliated.
The problem with England was blindly following the bazball approach. India and Sa played bazball, but with great caution. In 2019 it worked well, now teams learned how to counter bazball. So blindly sticking with what worked in 2019 is a failed strategy. They needed to adapt.
Bazball has nothing to do with the white ball set up
It means very aggresive and fearless cricket. The same approach morgan brought in the 19 wc.
@@ANOOPBAL when have you seen England play this way during this tournament?
I second that i think india is the best example, their players reflects all criketing methodologies, starting from rohit - attacking, gill- attacking, kohli - plays situation not overtly attacking but can change gears, then comes rahul- who can do both... so i think india was a complete cricketing sidd in this wc
England haven’t been playing Bazball. That’s been the problem
It is not complicated. England turned up underprepared, and over confident. Case in point - this podcast, 4 folks talking but with 3 mics 😅
Wanted to hear atherton and Nasserirs voice when the historical winning moment for any of the four team would win why did both of them leave india before Finals 😢
It's okay England, you morally won the World Cup
The way Nasser Hussain defends this English team by saying they're champions in white ball every match England plays, like, yeah mate, reaalll surprise, we didn't know. Also, Australia in the same time won the T20 World Cup and WTC both away from home with a less hyped about squad. 🤣
England was always a mediocre cricket team except for last 5 years..they are back to their original place
Mediocre!! they were world number one in 2010, all cricket teams go in cycles
@@seeker6436 no.1 in which format ?
As an Australian, I have a huge respect for Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain. They were great players, although I was happy to see them get out, I really respect their opinions on cricket.
Yes and it's good to see Eoin Morgan join them.
They are also the two least bias England cricket commentators, which creates a better listen, rather than listening to dogshit that is Kevin Pieterson
Agreed! They were smart cricketers.
Their comments and opinions are also unbiased
Are you guys still talking about England? Difficult to move on after a disappointing campaign!
Bazball only works on FLAT Highway Surfaces....😂
What has bazball got to do with Matthew Mott?
It's weird that one of these commentators said that India, NZ and South Africa have played like the way England played as if England invented attacking cricket 😂 Other nations have been attacking in cricket for decades, and now England have just caught up
England hype their cricket unbelievable well and even Indian start criticizing their team intent and want their team to play like England even though their team were ones who started chasing 325 and 350 runs apart.
Morgan overeggs it. Eng went too hard. Mindless batting
Ridiculous.. Srikanth attacked when it was unheard of.. Mark Graetbatch in 92... who can forget Jayasurya and little Kalu in 96... and ofcourse Gayle Oram/Astle Afridi Gilchrist and Sachin etc etc... as if England invented it.. they were the last to do it actually.. maybe what England did was go hard for full 50 overs.. u can on flat pitches with new hard balls.. but such pitches not offered in all grounds in India.. maybe Bengaluru and Mumbai.. certainly not in Lucknow, Eden or Ahmedabad.
You are probably right, but I think what England did was that almost every batsman was trying to be aggressive. In fact, in 2019, only Root was an accumulator type player.
So maybe that's what they mean.
@@kartkan Exactly right! As an Aussie kid in the early 2000s, I was excited to watch Australia play everyone...except England lol. Because it would be great attacking cricket with awesome bowlers and batters on both sides....except England 😂
A great side, under-prepared, both for 50 overs, & for reading conditions on the day, plus complacency = 7/8th
15:45 nice shot of England's middle order
😂😂😂😂
Hahahaha 😂😂😂😂😂
Here are some reasons why England struggled in the world cup I think:
1.batting woes
2.batting struggles
3. Team composition confusion
4. Ineffective spin bowling
These are some of the factors that contributed to England’s poor performance in the World Cup. I think
If England has played more tests than other nations, then why have they not reached test championship, yet?
Cause first root was captain and then stokes became Captain but by that time they were already not in race.
Every time England comes to the Caribbean for a reset they are beaten
I knew these wise men will come sooner then later to discuss what went wrong
England this World Cup has been humbly humiliated by India, Australia, Srilanka, New Zealand, Afghanistan and especially South Africa...
The main reason is not picking players who were having the momentum and rather putting your trust on previous reputation and getting in over your head by your past success..
These are fantastic interviews, with some of the greatest minds to ever play the game - but how hard is it to get Morgs a separate microphone?!
Bring Maccullam to coach in white ball as well
Good podcast boys, enjoy watching these clips when I can due to the good cricket discussions. I’m from Australia 🇦🇺
Why everyone is suprised??? ... England isn't that great in odi worldcups .... history says itself 1999 2003 2007 2011 2015 2023 .... England didn't qualified for semis 6 times out of last 7 worldcups .... 😂 this team is better in England conditions and infact they were struggling in 2019 to fix their spot in semis 😂 they qualified bcoz of Better runrate than Pakistan ... and wasn't dominated as you expected .... so stop this conversation this is very usual thing for England nothing is new
Sky’s Cricket coverage has gone down the pan in the last year or 2. These lot are far too pally pally with the players, Rob Key, etc. There’s not enough distance there to get real, authentic analysis. Getting rid of Bumble was a massive nail in the coffin as well.
Pally? Eoin has been super critical of this lot.
@@bobburroughs6241yes and fair play to him but Hussain and Atherton have been a complete joke not one critical comment just constant excuses can you imagine Bob Willis as a pundit for this world cup!
@@Airyed 🎯👏
Not in Pakistan. Don't imagine the Champions Trophy happening in Pak. It'll be a hybrid model. 😂😂
The main problem for England is they priorities Test cricket much and most player's miss ODIs frequently..Joe Root is an example he is been dropped or rested from ODI tour of Westindies..they have to learn how to use their best players..look at the Indian team especially Virat Kohli who is master in all 3 formats playing for so long and has much intensity and hunger to perform..Joe Root should learn from him. Apart from this Australian side they have named Warner and Smith in T20 squad for India series after world cup. England really have to get good spinners both in ODI and T20. They should have included Jason Roy in world cup it was a big mistake now again for rebuilding they are doing same dropping main players like Joe Root, Jason Roy, Moeen Ali who were core of 2019 world cup campaign.
The day they thought about the East India Company...
England made the mistake of thinking that the ODI and Test cricket sides need separate identities. But actually there are far greater similarities between the current Test team playing Bazball and the style of cricket being played by India in ODI’s. England would have performed much better in India in hindsight if they had taken Crawley and opened with Crawley and Bairstow. The England test side have been scoring 400 runs in 50 overs even when opponents have been able to put all fielders on the boundary. Taking Curran and Livingstone were mistakes but Root, Buttler and Bairstow were all well below their best.
Eng lost it in the mind after the NZ thrashing in the first game. Eng played it precisely like Morgan’s team, gung-ho, ultra aggressive etc and they were 60 runs short. And then bowled atrociously allowing NZ to chase in 35 overs. After that they weren’t sure whether to bat first or bowl first. What they should have seen is that - it wasn’t batting first that was the error but how they did.
I absolutely agree with Michael Atherton. There are so many players who played in India for a long time now, it`s astounding how none of them could adapt to the situation on familiar pitches.
I don't understand why Malan has been dropped, he was the best player at the World Cup for England!
He's 36 not going to be in next world cup need to rebuild
@@markstewart9320 He still averages nearly 57 in Odi's I'd be inclined to play him for another year or two
@@chrisatkins679it’s about giving more time to find his replacement for the next World Cup
Kindly upload the interview Atherton had with Rob Key.
As much as I love what Bazball has done to cricket, there seems to be a sense of arrogance amongst the players. It works sometimes, maybe not here as they weren’t able to adapt.
If there was arrogance (which I don't think there was, they simply thought they had a good chance to win it again) it evaporated almost immediately. I've never seen a side lose so much confidence so quickly.
Brother bazball is in TEST, IN ODI they have MOTT as coach
There are a lot of similar players, the mindset doesn’t change with shirts.
Root is one of the finest player I've ever seen.. There are lots of matches to witness that what Root is capable of doing... He has a little practice before world cup... He was dropped too many times in ODI's since 2019 world cup... And there were so many things to watch over like, in this tournament WC 2023 Root had a run out, a controversial LBW and so many other things where any batsman would have been collapsed... ECB should give Root more chances in limited overs.... The prime example can be given as Rohit Sharma.. who wasn't in form for so many years... He played at NO 4 or 5 in the squad... but India cricket gave him chances... and now the results are in front... He becomes the only player to score 3 double hundreds in odi's... There is no ending of finding better one's if you want to compare but giving better chances will create one the best... Root is my favorite player and will always be... He deserves to play more limited over cricket.... He has the caliber even in t20's.... Root has given a lot to English cricket in limited overs and he is ready to give more but If ECB drops Root, then this might be the darkest chapter in the history of ECB....
He should be dropped they way he got out was village cricket standard. Stick to test cricket he much better player
Well said
@@geoffbutler2893
Dropping someone would never make an individual great... He is a kind of player who has class not muscle.... And cricket is a game of brain not street fight or brawl... So, if he can effort to make runs just by taking singles why is that problems to others... I've seen a lot of class players, like Rahul Dravid, Sachin, Sangakkara, Jayawardene... They didn't need to get hard on the bowl... they played softly with their touch and class.. Joe Root is kinda similar to those players... You cannot compare him to Chris Gayle or MCcullum..... comapare him with those who are suppose to be compared with Joe...
@@shahriamasud3906exactly bro I'm a huge fan of joe root ,he is exceptional batter. he has the potential to hit 50+ hundreds in test cricket and 30-35+ in odi cricket as well but the reason is all about mindset. I am being a fan of him , think that joe root should drop form odis too. Because the way he finds to get out somehow is wordless. Why he always looking to play reverse ramp. I don't think he should be given a chance now. He has been playing very poorly since 2019. He is known among fab four batter. But nowadays it seems his(joe) wickets is costless for bowlers like he doesn't want to play anymore looking frustrated. I personally thinks that he should focused on test cricket to play as long as he can. Being a high class player I can't see him playing like this
@@kundalaman Brother pardon me that I've to disagree with you in some facts... Talking about the dismissals of Root in this WC.. 3 games he played so well...He had a run out, a controversial LBW and some other unlucky facts that made him out.. When you're out of form then your luck also started to pass away just like virat kohli that he had from 2019-2022 3 years of having no centuries in any format... Should he be retired then.. No! the team put trust on him and supported him... And now see the results... There are so many facts I would like to discuss but the message would be too long... All I have to say that ECB has to give Joe root a lot chances... He deserves it.. ECB is too concern about breaking Tendulkar's 15000+ runs in test by Root... Which is why he was dropped from other formats... But it won't make things good... Even in t20 joe root should be included... That would be a proper Ballanced team...
4 microphones too much to ask for sky?
Can sky sports please bring a fourth microphone?
Haaa still better then star sports
It wasn't as big a disaster as many believe. Technically were a couple wins away from the knockouts. One - they should've respected the various conditions better & not expecting a flat road at every venue and two - their team selection was very muddled and lacked consistency.
@@cosmicvortex2yes, but let’s not take any credit away from the Afghanistan team. They played their hearts out. Nothing but respect for them this tournament.
Visiting Ind without any strike spinner is a sin.
Any Eng bowler takes wicket only when batter try to hit sixes. This works well in T20, not in ODI.
Just scoring 6 to 8 an over, with minimal risk and suddenly any target is chaseable.
@@dashmeetsingh9679Rashid was supposed to be one. Who else would qualify for a strike spinner from England?
@@ravindra7791 Have a program to develop spinners. India has a program to develop pace bowlers. They arent born naturally in India. They are trained.
@@dashmeetsingh9679 Agree but need pitches too. How would he earn a living. ECB have a program and also send youngsters to India and Asia on tours but they are not able to play their trade in county cricket. I work for a bank and knew a guy who went on tours with Rashid and Moeen. Was probably just below them in terms of skill but chose to work in the city as cricket as a career as a spinner was not a practical option. Bench strength will never get developed if this happens
England is never a good side in long run they were lucky to lift 2019 wc on some shitty rules from 2000 we had 6 wc it is only aus india are the most consistent teams both have qualified for qualifiers (semifinals ) 5 times that is consistency and also both are good in test format which is ultimate of cricket .
I feel a lot of focus has been on batting, which hasn't clicked, but more importantly, the bowling didn't have enough penetration. This was probably the worst bowling attack in this world cup across all sides
Rather Stokes coming out of retirement, ECB should have approached Morgan to unretire 😂
THE MOST 🍫 CHOCOLATE VOICE I HAVE EVER HEARD IAN WARD WHAT A SWEET VOICE HE HAS THE MOST WORLD CLASS NO 1 COMMENTATOR IN THE WHOLE WORLD IM BIGGEST FAN OF HIS VOICE AND COMMENTARY ALMOST ALL SKY SPORTS COMMENTATORS ARE LIKE CHOCOLATE VOICES AND I LOVE IT 🍩🍪🍫❤💜💙
Can listen to key naserr atherton all day really liked their subtle approach
The intro of morgan.. About the change of approach.. Which was started by him.. And was successful.. He was literally hammering.. Nasser and atherton are experienced broadcasters.. They don't hammer rather convey in a subtle way..
One thing every team is confused about in this world cup is dew factor , I think they gave so much of unnecessary importance to dew n that affected the decision-making at the toss ! 🙄🤷♂️🤨
Where is Vaughan? 😂😂
The all rounders and batting depth.. Costed england.. On one hand the they dint have go to bowlers who could take wickets, on other hand the all rounders dint make enough runs either.. As a matter of fact.. The batsmen itself struggled and looked baffled as to how to approach the game..
Loved the discussion, but could help thinking, "Why do they only have 3 mics for these??"
just give morgs a mic pls
What's wrong with Eoin? Talking about flinching & changing the approach. Eng players have played aggressive brand of cricket only on flat pitches mostly. It was a clear case of adapting to the conditions. No one has tried to emulate English brand. Back in the day, Jayasuriya, Sehwag, Gayle, Hayden & Gilchrist, Trescothic, McCullum they all used to play aggressive in tough conditions. This world cup, teams who succeeded are trying to have good start, consolidating in the middle & teeing off in the last 10 overs which is how one day cricket was being played, should be played & is being played.
Overly aggressive approach is fine only on flat tracks. Not on seaming & spinning conditions. England didn't apply themselves enough with the bat. Their fast bowlers were not suited for Indian pitches.
I wonder when Nass said about Rohit 07:35 exactly then Rohit was crossing on the aile of the pool.. 😅😅😅
Nice observation
India and Australia play about the same amount of test cricket so that sounds like a cop out at best
Can't understand people overlooking Malan. Some say that he is not playing the new gen type of cricket but if you look at his records, he is on par with Jason Roy and Bairstow. In terms of average & strike rate, he has improved a lot and did really well in the WC.
I strongly believe what went wrong for England in CWC23 was them not playing as a group for a longer time span of at least 1-2 years. They brought in Stokes, Root as parachutes to an unstable team and made it more unstable. Also, lack of away games to adapt to conditions was the icing on the cake. ECB would've easily negotiate with Sri Lanka for a long tour to get an idea in the meantime to get the confidence before the CWC.
They are right about the Test matches bit. It seems like England played 50% more tests than the other 2 big teams (Australia and India who have played roughly equal number). How is that possible. Are they playing extra test matches with the small team or playing more teams.
Those three are the stars of the interviews and I am not talking about the ones sitting in the chairs
Shows you how good the Australian team was, these guys are saying England is an all time great team because they won a World Cup in 2019 and a t20 but did crap in the two tournaments either side of the 2019
Where as Australia made the final in 96 the won 99 in England, 03 went undefeated in India
Also Undefeated in 07 in West Indies
why do they always have one fewer microphone?
Let’s hope the focus remains on the Test side - the limited overs stuff is very much a nice to have, the holy grail remains the Ashes
U draw a series at home against Aus n celebrate like u have won it😅
England tried to mirror their T20 game in this ODI WC , forgot to respect challenges that slow, low indian pitches pose. England need to shed their bazball baggage first. Outside Australia and English conditions, their ODI batsmen don't pose a threat to any bowling line up anywhere, so they need to play batsmen and bowlers with right skillsets for given conditions.
I like how these former England legends are so respectful of their team. We do not see that in India or Pakistan.
You are absolutely spot on. As a pakistani fan, I wish our analysts and ex-players show similar level of respect to the national team, the captain and the coach.
10:36 beautiful scenic palace there swan behind❤
We need to be very careful who we throw under the bus for this World Cup… England were definitely undercooked, came in overly confident and just thought it would all click on the day. However, we can’t just throw everybody out after one bad tournament. You’re not telling me that most of that top six are now just not good, Buttler still one of the best white ball batters in the world, Malan has been class for England for the last two years, Stokes still looked very good at stages in this tournament … yes we need to think ahead, but just saying everybody is finished isn’t the way. This SA batting lineup is literally older than Englands and look how well they’ve done…
Think every batter in SA side is in their early 30s xcept for RVD may be.
If they’re looking ahead to the next World Cup in 2027, it will be a gradual process to identify and integrate fresh blood but if England are going to continue to play less and less 50 over international cricket, then it makes that task for selectors and coaches that more difficult. Heard a stat during the WC that between 2015-19, England played 82 ODIs, between 2019-23 played just 44. They play 3 v WI next month and then nothing till late September v Australia. Our domestic 50 over competition is played at the same time as the Hundred so given virtually no promotion with counties playing virtual second XIs. The problem is deeper than many imagine.
@@soumenchatterjee32760rvd is 34. Markham is the only batter under 30. He is 29
Livingstone failed in every match he played and he is still in the ODI squad
Come to pindi ECB for test series
Being captain Butler shud lead from front opening the batting innings with lefty Malan . Butler as an opener scored 4 tons in one season of ipl in subcontinent pitches in india . fast bowler wood was not at all a choice for indian pitches..selection and batting order was truly a mess . Baistow not successful as an opener in the tournament
All this talks about how England "revolutionised" white ball Cricket and their "brand" is absolute nonsense. Can't wait for the upcoming test series where their bazzball bubble is also going to burst
Perhaps the most significant factors not adequately explored in the analysis are the selection of favourites irrespective of performance and the negative influence of powerful cliques undermining morale in the squad ; the failure to include Stokes in the assessment of unfit players who shouldn't have been selected; and the failure to evolve selection and base it more on current form and fitness, and to have a more fluid, flexible approach to selection.
Even in their prime they can't play in India and win odi series....it is tough to play here
Brilliant podcast. You'll never see some sensible analysis like this from ex Indian cricketers
It went wrong the moment eoin Morgan gave predictions for the world cup
England’s 2019 team is a one time miracle and english team as a cricketing nation is below par in most ICC tournaments so far and their strike rate to reach semifinals is very low even if you take 2000 as the cut off .
In my view only two nations revolutionised white ball cricket one is Sri Lanka in 1996 by getting maximum run in first 10 overs and the next team ruled is Australia 🇦🇺 ( consistent and have a great pool of players for every generation) and literally they ruled from late 90’s to late 2010’s as a invincible team
England/Pakistan have some similarities they both are one time world cup winners in 50 overs game but next year they will not even qualify for group stage .
I don't think there's anything wrong with this team.
I like the sarcasm
You can't determine a winner based on just the boundary count .(Eng vs Nz final 2019).In tennis ,when there is a tie in the final set ,the winner cannot be determined by how many aces served /hit by the player.
What is the point of international T20s?
Jos butler should have opened in India along side Jonny bairstow , followed with Malan , Stroke , Root, Mooen Ali, Sam, Willy, Chris Woakes, Wood
Butler have been good in IPL as opener, Root at 3rd down can play with strong middles and tell enders. and use Wood is key as fast bowler can go for runs if not supported with innovative field placing. England is a string team bit not used effectively with their own experiences in these conditions,
It was a draw in 2019 ! Remember forever.
Don't think so any side has ever looked so disinterested in a World Cup. That being said, all great sides have a sunset tipping point. They've been a great ODI side over the last few years. It's an already aged squad that is beyond it's peak
The new crop of players coming in isn't good enough - Livingstone is 30 but has the decision making of an 18 year old.
The Jason Roy situation was extremely badly handled but it stems from Morgan's retirement when they decided not to replace him like-for-like with Malan there and then. The squad was too bowler-heavy and I would have left out Willey or Atkinson and found room for Roy AND Brook.
the 2023 world cup has mentally scarred england so bad that all players... ex and current and the ecb are not going to forget this for the rest of their lives 🤣
No big deal. Winning 2 ICC tournaments in the last 4 years is a great achievement. Only Australia rivalled that. This is how the top teams play, they finish the job by winning cups and don't waste time.
@@Meet_Your_DeathInd won 2 in 2 years too ..2011 wc and 13 champions trophy ..nt just eng
@@Meet_Your_Death Where did they win 2019 world cup?? 🤣...boundary count champs...🤣🤣.
2022 t20 world cup finals also looked fixed...as pakistan dropped the simplest of catches in finals.
I think English management doesn't figure out ODI in subcontinent comprehensively
Mistakes that English Management and Selectors made in this Tour 🙏
1) When Zak Crawely and Ben Duckett Bat so well as an opening pair in Ashes, Newzealand, Pakistan and Srilanka then why English Selector didn't pick both in this Tour 🙏
When Selectors know that Johnny Bairstow doesn't have proper Opening Technique and Malan look Vulnerable against New Ball then why they expose them with new Ball
That's why hardly any 50 run partnership in the Beginning
And In Bharat Ball Swing and Seam in first 7-8 overs except Bangluru 🙏
2) Why Ollie Robinson, Josh Tounge or James Anderson was not selected in this Team, again poor Selection from English side
When Ball Swing and Seam in first 10 overs in Bharat
Robinson could easily make Dents initially in opposite team 🙏
Tounge had pace and swing then why not he wasn't selected
If Ben Stokes and Moeen Ali retirement was revoked then why not James Anderson 🙏
Nobody knows Bhartiya conditions best as James Anderson acquainted with 🙏
He could also reverse the ball in death overs
3) Why Liam Livingstone and Gus Atkinson was selected, when their role wasn't clear
Number of Bowling All rounders also caused English Downfall, since it's not T20 Format
4)If English Selectors and Management take World Cup as seriously as Ashes then they will thrive 🙏
England cricket should respect the players that play ODI's more often than the others. For example, the case of Jason Roy.
Backing a player of his potential could be tournament changing.
The way forward would be to settle a one day group of 25-30 players for the next world cup and American Olympics.
Good luck to the future cricket team.
So it means england leagacy lasted for 4-5 years. And now in this wc they are at the bottom of the table.
Eng warmed up in the initial games, started to regroup and peak in the last two games.
Did England not play 2 warm up games?
The Hundred is a nonsense competition. Getting rid of that would be a good start.
I feel like England started to get their odi rhythm back by the end of the world cup. So had they toured say India and Australia with their full strength odi team post ashes, they would have found their rhythm earlier on and would have become real competitors.
If they can't field their best team in white ball bilateral series', why they do split captain-coach system???
I wish we had someone like a Rob Key running SA cricket big admiration for him handling cricket issues, but yet again I agree with Nasser why do a contract offering during a world 🌎cup month or year?, clearly it’s had a mental affect on performance on the whole England 🏴 team no doubt they( ECB) got that wrong 😑
They decided to put all the focus on ODI cricket leading up to the World Cup in 2019 and the Test team suffered and now the opposite has happened. Why can't the ECB be strong on all forms of the game. Bat first and bat well and you put pressure on the team batting 2nd get early wickets and the run rate creeps up and you're in a strong position. Don't understand the obsession with chasing.
Morgan should be made england's white ball coach