HVAC 158 low on charge, LEAK!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2024
- Refrigerant does not wear out, it leaks out.
High superheat vapor (starved evaporator) with low subcooling liquid (starved condenser) = not enough refrigerant, where is the leak.
Many techs just want to add refrigerant and go to the next call because its quick easy money. Its really not the techs call, its the customers call in most cases.
If the system contains less than 50 pounds of refrigerant there is no laws requiring the leak to be repaired in the United States at this time. Do the "gas and go" in not illegal but is it the right thing to do?
Ultimately the choice is the customers when its under 50 pounds of refrigerant.
The customer should be informed of all their options so they can make the best decisions for their needs. lets look at some of these topics.
Environmental, regardless of what the technicians view is on the environmental aspect of refrigerants, to some customers it is very important! Some customers do not want the refrigerant leaking out and are continues of this and make decisions based on it.
Dependability, knowing they unit is not going to run low on charge again on the busiest hottest day of the year. Thinking they may have to sleep without air, or take off work yet again or even have family over when it happens.
Longevity, understanding running the system low on charge can overheat and damage the compressor.
Electrical cost, understanding the system low on refrigerant will use more energy.
We give the customers their options.
1 We can add refrigerant to get you cooling.
2 We can come back and do a leach search to find the leak then we can give you an estimate for what it would take to repair it if its in a fixable location.
3 Depending on the age you may want to invest into a new system, there is no cost an estimate. we can set that up if you would like.
Now the customer decides what is best with their goals and needs. Be sure and document all the options on the invoice.
Me personally, i like to perform a complimentary 10 minute maximum leak search to get an idea where the leak will be.
One of the nice things about commercial/ industrial is the customers are ok with a very detailed leak inspection. In residential the customers do not want to pay for a proper leak search. Im not a fan of those "leak seal" products....but i can see their place. I also if i did ever use them, explain it has no warranty, no guarantee and you stand a chance at further damage of equipment due to how the product re-acts with the refrigerant system. Ive seen those leak sealers take out compressors before. If after all that, they still want it....ok sure.
Our job is to notify of the issue and to provide options. Thats it. Its not our money to spend for them.
I could not agree more!
I have found some times it’s that the install never made up for lineset length . I always figure it’s a leak but there’s always the chance a longer lineset wasn’t taken into account . Depending on how low obviously takes some into consideration
Always give the customer options
Great 👍
If you keep topping off a leaking compressor, do you accumulate too much lubricant over time?
Another great vid thank you
I noticed you didn’t mention anything about any leak sealants. Are you not a fan of them?
Great question. I have that video recorded it will post Wednesday or Thursday.
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Ty didn’t want to answer that question.
In a few days, all that refrigerant could leak out...wow..if it was that bad, would the system be emptied of freon already?. And should the tech be able to check for system pressure drop rate, or at least ask the customer if the system has to be topped off yearly and guesstimate how bad the leak was?. A good experienced tech should not only give the options but also recommend the best options to customers...but hey things are different now, everything is about sale and profit. Stuff are built to be broken and replaced for producers to make profit.
There are many types of leaks. How those leaks form and where they form are different.
It's not uncommon to have a leak develop on the high side and have a subcooling if 2. The tech charges the subcooling back 10 with say 1.5 pounds of refrigerant.
The vibrations of the unit and now the higher pressure of again a proper charge increase the leak fracture point and leak size. By the time the time the peak evening hits the systems is now lower on refregerant than it was that morning.
On another scenario a system has a leak in the low side. Adding refrigerant does not affect the leak rate. The system slowly looses charge over the year.
It's is not possible to know how low the charge is with a running system. We will measure the quantity of refregerant as we add refregerant back it to achieve the proper superheat and subcooling. A system could be at 2 subcooling and need to be at 10 subcooling.
That could be the difference of . 5 pounds of refrigerant or 8 pounds of refregerant.
The only way to know how much was left in the system would be to recover it all out and weigh it. Calculate the system line set length and the factory charge. Then compare that number to the how much you pulled out.
To then find the leak rate you would have to compare that over an amount of time from the previous leak.
Recommendations are certainly in the realm of a tech. However the vast majority of techs just add refrigerant and go the the next call without providing the customer with any options or recommendations at all.
On the other hand selling techs would have pushed for a new system and not provided the other options.
I'm not sure how a video of providing options to a customer was perceived as all about selling.
epa law over 50 pounds.
what if it involves a 2 stage system where each stage is less than 50 pounds and are separate refrigeration circuits and 2 separate compressors and only 1 stage has the leak causing the system to not satisfy so it kicks in the second stage?
does the epa have the same requirements there?
also with the epa being defunded by trump can the epa even do anything.?
Everything is on the EPA website.
You can even find all the fines issues.
2 thoughts on this.
The EPA is the only regulation we have, it's a very small and easy to follow and simple regulation.
If professional service technicians are not going to follow these simple steps then anybody should be able to buy refrigerant and do the work.
Just hop on down to the auto parts store and buy a cans with a pressure guage in it. If we are not going to recover refrigerant or fix leaks, then there is no need for homeowners, handman or anybody else to do so.
As professionals charging professional prices I believe we should be striving to do things the best we can but the choice is always up to the person doing the work. Go to lows and buy a condensor just like you buy a water heater, electrical service panel or lawn mower.
As professionals we should be striving to do the best work we can, improving our skills and processes.
Instead so many are arguing and fighting to do things the simplest we can find. It's a race to the bottom and it makes all of us look bad.
Integrity is doing the right thing even when nobody is watching. The EPA is probably not going to do track you down for doing something wrong but that does not make it right.
Friend bought an entire system due to a evap coil leak. 4K for it or new system 8K. Perfectly fine furnace compressor and condenser but due to the way hvac installers price it it’s conducive to just throw away crap. Disposable society.
Too many companies just want to sell, then they don't install the new system correctly.
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Excellent options and alternatives lay in the customers hands to make the choice.
A little bit of that Hvac 2.0 philosophy in there on sales and putting off responsibility into the owners side of the court.
I do not condone the verbal abuse, mocking, name calling and insults of industry professionals that one of the 2.0 "leaders" is known for.
HVAC is a profession not a religious cult.
@@love2hvac yes I have heard this. But I still watch and read and learn and abstract the good parts that are beneficial for both the customer and myself as a business owner.
I too can be abusive and use name calling when it comes to owners of companies who use high-pressure sales tactics and downright borderline thievery to make money in our trade especially when the majority of the owners cannot even repair or teach the business in which they reap profits from.
I have a chip on my shoulder it’s a pet peeve of mine and I will go on a rampage and be very abusive in my much younger years in a past life I have worked for these individuals. And it’s a sideline hobby Of mine to try to eliminate them when I come across them like cockroaches in the kitchen.
Now imagine treating people that way that are doing good for the industry, people like you and me that believe in the craftsmanship of the trade. When you have a good system there is no need to be worried if someone gets outside information. There should be no need to stop someone from learning other ways. There should be no reason to attack people that are 98% for your cause and methods because they are not 100%.
HVAC is not a religion. When people call their method a religion it literally is just a cult.
I am all about making the trade better. I'm against the companies out to rip people off. I'm also against people that want to hurt good people doing good things in our industry.
People should not be asked to blindly follow and believe only one source of information. People that do not 100% flow every step should not be considered an enemy. Throught history this has been proven to be a bad thing.
@@love2hvac who or what is HVAC 2.0?
@sam Andrew
It's a company that contractors pay a subscription fee to access and follow their sales process that combines HVAC and building performance of insulation and air sealing.