Way of the Astral Self Monk in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything | Nerd Immersion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ย. 2024
- One of the most controversial videos on my channel was my original review of the Way of the Astral Self monk from its Unearthed Arcana appearance. Now in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything it has been revised and in some cases actually buffed? What do I think about it this time around?
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Wisdom modifier plus monk level on deflect energy got pretty insane once you got to higher levels because you were reducing the damage by 1d10+25 at 20th level which made things like dragons breath not really a concern even if you fail the dex save.
Just wanted to point out that you can’t attack with flurry of blows or your martial arts the turn you activate the arms of the astral self because your bonus action is already used up.
Thanks for all your hard work, we all really appreciate how fast you’re putting out all of these videos!
But the arms last 10 minutes, on subsequent turns you can attack and use flurry
Okay but that's not what OP said. He said on the first turn you summon the arms you can't use an extra attack or flurry of blows and they're correct.
Yeah, that confused me for a moment.
@@ringodingo6990 I assume you meant the martial arts attack? Because the actual Extra Attack is part of the action, so that's free to go on level 5.
@@AguionStryke yeh but you dont start off at level 5 do you? You get the arms at level 3 so when you get the ability you can't attack with it the same turn. Like I said.
with all the options with monks now you could run a pretty decent low magic game using only monks
I'm actually running a game like that right now. We started before this book came out, so there wasn't a healer monk option, but the rest of the roles are pretty well filled. We have Open Hand, Four Elements, Kensei, Shadow, and Drunken Master, and I gave them a homebrew item that lets them spend ki points to heal each other.
These ideas are awesome
I’m honestly surprised how light the changes for this class are. I’m so glad this was my most anticipated subclass from the UA. 😁
They removed the free bonus action attacks which would have made the arms better than simply using a monk weapon, but was what made the high cost for the subclass's abilities worth it.
17th level necromancy wizard with the time stop spell and 3rd level astral self monk multi class ...
ZA WARRRRRUUUUUDDDOOOOO
"DM, can I make an investigation check to search for a road roller?" 😂😂😂
@@augustocoelho105 "You're in a fantasy world dude, so that's MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDAAAAA !! WRYYYYYYYYYY!"
I'd honestly go for foresight, timestop is kind of garbage.
@@skullkrusher-dx4kg do you not get the joke? It’s an anime reference
@@justmyself5770 i do get the reference im saying foresight works better.
Unarmed fighting would increase your attack damage but not your martial arts die (which some features use). Something to keep in mind.
Also once you hit level 11 it is now obsolete and and that ASI is basically gone for good. But considering most campaigns don’t go much higher it’s still an option.
Edit: forgot you can retrain on ASI so I guess you can switch to Blind Fighting or something else.
Me: Spends 2 ki points to use the visage just so I can DBZ yell as I power up.
But visage only costs 1 point?
@@codebracker No, it costs 2. 1 for the arms and another for the visage.
@@ShirotoraGodsbane you don't need to use arms tho? unless you want the body bonus
@@codebracker Yeah, but I'm talking about powering up like in DBZ, as in for combat. Why would I not activate the arms in combat?
Astral Self Monk actually makes a good grappler, so giving them the Unarmed Fighting style is actually an even BETTER idea.
Give em grappler feat, and that poor monster is never hitting anything ever again.
@@davidsoyele7829 If the character is also a Simic Hybrid with Grappling Appendages, they get another unarmed strike AND can grapple at the same time!
how does that works? i mean, if u grap him u cant hit him right?
Am I the only one who loves those little Tasha's commentaries to each subclass and other things
I love them too but my favourite is the one she put for this particular class 😂
All of Tasha's notes for Artificer subclasses are just choice
I think its too much twiter comment for my taste
This was the subclass I was most worried about them going a bit overboard and making it a lot weaker than it was. The class had a few issues but it looks like even with these changes it still retained a lot of the fun
I agree . I have been interested in this subclass since UA and im happy they nefted the KI point ability as it was a bit much considering monks regen their massive amount of KI in just a short rest. I think its been balance well but suffers from post Xanithar issues of outclassing some older classes.
I like tha adjustment as it makes the late game weaker, but streamlines the early game to make it feel nicer.
It got some much needed adjustments, much better overall. Was worried they would not be unarmed strikes in Tashas
I do think the class was a bit overnerfed with removing the extra attacks from the first feature, nerfing the deflect ability AND removing the ki Recovery. Feel like they could atleast have kept the high level feature.
It's such a small yet significant change, originally there was zero way of improving the arms externally whereas now the Talisman of Claws or whatever it's called can be used to enhance them.
@@martinfriis4613 Honestly, that ki recovery was absolutely insane. Even without the bottle of ants idea, it's not that much to reduce a creature to 0 especially with as many attacks as you can make
@@martinfriis4613 That was totally insane. It doesn't matter if the monk needed those things or not - it was totally unfair compared to other subclasses. I'm glad Astral Self got nerfed to a needed degree. It's still strong, possibly stronger than old subclasses, but is no longer as blatantly unbalanced.
I think it's an overall buff. The class was really powerful at the end, but it was almost worse than a base monk until you got to level 11. At least now its viable for the entire length of the class.
My DM let me use the Dhampir in our campaign, so I'm playing an astral self monk roleplaying as a ghoul from Tokyo Ghoul. I know its lame to some and no its not optimized but dang it'll be fun.
That's actually sounds so cool
Its JOJO Monk time.
ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA!!!!
STANDO POWAAA
MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA!!
WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yare-Yare
Word of The Spirit: YES YES YES!/NO NO NO!
Just wanna make a gnome tinkerer with mechanical arms, and have the arms/visage appear as more mechanical than spiritual.
Could even take a page out of the beast barbarian, and have it more amorphous/symbiotic like alien claws protruding from the body.
And now that they do force damage instead of radiant/necrotic it kinda works really well
@@Nildread Yeah you can even flavour the armour to be artificer inspired too having it iron man-form over your body in the later levels. Even the normal monk feature of stunning strike, could be reflavoured to a taser like punch from the mecha-fist.
More like a Mechanus Self than Astral Self
I also like the idea of them being holographic arms. Gnome technology is getting crazy!
Just want to point out that each stage of the Astral Self is now interrupted when the player is Incapacitated. So Astral Self Monks are super vulnerable to losing a ton of ki points prematurely with Incapacitation, Paralysis, Unconsciousness, and Stun effects like Stunning Strike, Hold Person, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Sleep, Eyebite, Hypnotic Pattern, Ghoul/Ghast claws etc. etc.
Which makes it quite horrible. If you don't insta kill the caster, your low saving throws will hurt you pretty bad from these effects.
@@archmagemc3561 Monks do however get Proficiency in every Saving Throw via Diamond Soul.
@@jamesgrieves2669 truly, Diamond is Unbreakable
@@jamesgrieves2669 Sure, but that means very little. They get Wisdom and Con, the first and third most common saving throw, Chasima, the 2nd most rare, and Int, the rarest saving throw proficency. They technically get Death save proficency as well, but if your making death saves, you screwed up something fierce and 2 kobolds can kill you with coup de graces anyway.
Meanwhile, at HALF THE LEVEL paladins get +5 to ALL saving throws that STACKS with their proficiency and it applies to the whole team.
Monks would need expertise in all saving throws to justify that level requirement since paladins get a better version of it at level 6.
@@archmagemc3561 why are you comparing it to paladins???? the point is that monks can deal with incapacitation because they have many ways to avoid magic effects/attacks. This has nothing to do with the paladin
*Jotaro's Theme intensifies*
What is this Jotaro’s theme? All I’ve got is a piano
The big problem with Unarmed Fighter with a monk is 3 parts...
First, Unarmed Fighter works off Strength, so you would need a Strength based monk to really take the best advantage, which is possible, but not exactly in line with the class.
Second, Unarmed Fighter basically gives your Unarmed attacks a d6 damage with the versatile trait for a d8, which is exactly what a Quarterstaff gives, so the only time you will see any improvement is with your Bonus Action attacks (either from Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows), since those mandate Unarmed attacks (still requiring Strength for the attacks).
Third, your Unarmed attacks *WILL* do that much damage (and more!) at higher levels, without investing a Feat.
So basically, you would need to build a Monk that was "Sub-optimal" to get any significant use out of it in the first place, invest in a Feat, and even then, you would make the Feat entirely irrelevant by level 11, since Monks naturally do a d8 Unarmed damage at that point.
Maybe for a low level "One-Shot", but not for a long term character, I think... More for an Unarmed character that isn't a Monk...
Not entirely sure if it works that way. The feat makes your unnarmed attacks do a d6 if you are holding anything in your hands, and a d8 if you are bare handed. It uses strenght, but as a monk, your unnarmed attacks use your best ability acorde bettewn str and dex. It is also start as a d4 that is your martial die, as oppoised to the normal that would be a 1+ your mod. So just like a using a weapon, you would do the d8 for most of your damage. Also, when a you can retrain your fighting style when you get a ASI. So It is not really a loss. I beg pardon if I am wrong, but I don't think that there is anything against the rules, neither you would lose anything.
@@GustavoMartins-hg9wl I think you missed my point. First, yes, you can make Monk attacks with Strength, if you decide to build a Strength based Monk. The point is, that is not how Monks tend to be built, since Strength has poor Stat synergy. Dexterity does more overall. Second, a Quarterstaff does the same amount of damage as the Feat does...
@@moquips but the feat lets you do a 1d4 damage if you are grappling the enemy, and as a astral self, you can use wisdom to strength checks like athletics. You will not really need strength. Also, the feats lets you retrain at a ability score increase level, so you can pick another one when it is irrelevant. With the right combo, you can grapple the enemy with a bonus action with tavern brawler, and then give advantage for your part members to attack him. And then you attack it in the next turn, and give them hell. Damn you could even thrown him as if he was a improvised weapon hahaha.
I would take 2 levels of fighter for the fighting style and action surge. you'll be messing people up lol
Yeah this would be a very strong dip. The question is when to do it in the level progression. Argument for doing it early is to get that d8 damage dice asap before you get it anyway from natural monk level progression but this delays ASIs in a class that is notoriously MAD (slightly less so when you can lean on WIS more with this subclass but DEX is still a god stat and monks need the HP from a half decent CON)
If you don't need or don't want the action surge, you don't need the dip: just make a variant human, or a new lineage type, and get the feat that let you get a fighting style. Then you can learn it. But I do think that a 3 level dip in fighter is very good. You can get a battle master, and pick up that grappling strike manuever. Lets not forget riposte too hahaha. Any class with a little dip in fighter gera good hahaha.
@@GustavoMartins-hg9wl a 3 level dip loses you empty body, so it probably isn't worth it
@@FilosofiadiCazzeggio I do think it would depend on the level limit we are talking about . A normal campaing ends at most level 12, so it would be good to get it after level 7 or so...
@@GustavoMartins-hg9wl yeah, if you aren't going for late levels it's worth considering a fighter dip, although I'd probably go for more precious ki at lower levels of monk
The girl from borderlands 3 is amara.
Also good job pumping out all this content stay safe and don't over work yourself
Are you sure it isn't ARMara?
@@Nildread lol
I feel like 4 elements fits better tbh. Astral Monk only fits her Brawl tree. You lack her PhaseCast, Grasp, and Flare.
Maybe Wildfire Druid would be good as a dip for casty shit
@@jakestavinsky3480 ya I definitely think you would have to multi class to make the character
Thanks so much for doing these videos. I'm a bit confused though about that unarmed fighting part at the end since it's a fighting style, not a feat, and is only available to fighters.
There's a feat in this book that just gives you a fighting style
Sees Yoroichi:
"Ah yes, a fellow man of culture"
I have literally been watching you all weekend.. man you are working hard. Thank you!
I like that you brought up the "bag of rats" exploit in this vid, its something homebrewers need to look out for and wotc seems to ignore.
You are on a roll dude! Thanks for all the content.
Im not moved by the "too many attacks" argument for nerfing the Astral Monk. This Monk is not built around magical bonuses of new weapons and gear. Any early power excess will be rapidly reduced as the rest of the party gains levels and magical gear.
WotC has repeatedly stated than none of the balance is taking magic items into account anyway, meaning you could probably run a game without it.
Now, they say that, yet a lot of monsters are just straight up resistant/immune to nonmagical attacks, so...
@@bouboulroz they say so, yet theres no point in playing a fighter unless you have magic weapons
@@The_Yukki That's... exactly what I said.
Anyway, Monks can just use tattoos to make up for their lack of damage now. Just get the Eldritch Claw Tattoo (shouldn't be too hard as it's uncommon) and call it a day.
@@bouboulroz my bad, read the first part only >,
@@The_Yukki Been there, done that. It's okay, we wouldn't play d&d if we were afraid to look silly once in a while.
When you say you can immediately use the arms for 3 strikes when you summon them do you mean immediately as in level 3 but not that first round? Because you already used BA to summon them
Okay, I hadn’t considered a lot of that with the Astral Self monk. I’m tempted to try changing my Open Hand Monk to an Astral Self Monk for the Eberron game I’m part of. Could help him keep up with the party that all have Darkvision while I’m stuck using an item to give myself a light source. In addition I could either Multiclass 1 Level Twilight Cleric and 2 Levels fighter with Unarmed Fighting Style. Or I could go a full 3 levels into Fighter for a subclass there like the Echo Knight or Battlemaster. Heck, even Rune Knight!
My thoughts...
Arms of the Astral Self: The wording got cleaned up which is nice, and I'm enjoying the fact that this removes the MADness that other monk subclasses suffer from. As for the "buffs" the force damage change makes more sense thematically, and the 10ft AOE gives them a nice crowd control effect that most monks lack.
Visage of the Astral Self: It gives your special ability OoC uses which is always useful, and I'm glad that they moved Word of the Spirit down here because it seemed to make less sense where it was.
Body of the Astral Self: It expands on your Deflect Missiles feature and gives you either a pseudo-crit or pseudo-savage attack if you do crit. So it's a nice little buff.
Awakened Astral Self: The bonus to AC is always nice, and the increase to damage output is also appreciated, and while I understand the "Ants in a jar" reason for removing the ki consumption ability, it did make sense thematically and was nice to have. It just needed to be reworded in order to avoid said scenario and it would have been fine.
Final thoughts: As a Persona fan I enjoy this class quite a bit, and still want to make one. And other then rewording the Deflect Energy ability to make it more inline with Deflect Missiles, this is a solid class that I can see having a fun time with.
With the astral-monks i wonder how it interacts with the unarmed fightingstyle and grapples overall. Like can you use graples with your natural arms to grapple and then wail on the enemy with the astral arms (or tentacles from the symic hybrid) ?
Yes, you can. A Simic Hybrid's Grappling Appendages (or the Tavern Brawler feat) can be used to grapple as part of an attack action, and then Unarmed Fighting allows you to deal another 1d4 damage afterwards.
RAW, unarmed strikes from Grappling Appendages cannot be used in addition to Astral Barrage, because they are not your astral arms. But if the target of Astral Barrage was grappled by any means, you can still add the 1d4 damage from Unarmed Fighting, because that one is not stated to be an unarmed attack.
So that means the ideal combo at 17th+ level would be:
Activate Arms of the Astral Self; make 2 unarmed strikes from your basic and extra attack, 2 unarmed strikes from Flurry of Blows, 1 unarmed strike from Ki-Fueled Attack (optional feature) and 1 unarmed strike from Grappling Appendages.
That's 6 unarmed strikes that each deal 1d10 + your STR, DEX or WIS modifier in force damage.
Use Grappling Appendages to grapple.
Use Unarmed Fighting to add 1d4 bludgeoning damage.
Bottom line: If you have Grappling Appendages, you don't even need to use Astral Barrage!
@@RokuroCarisu Thanks for that explaination :)
Charlotte Katakuri in DnD is now possible! Better yet, Shaman King character are possible as well with Oversoul.
I'm upset with the scaling of Extra attack being removed because this now prevent the monk subclass from being the Ki conserving class. Yes, it does come back on the short rest however SOME adventures/encounters prevent that meaning ki resources need to be managed. With the extra attack feature I was able to use some of the new options Monk have in optional features & more stunning strikes as well to support my party.
Overall, what's done is done, just glad the subclass made the book. However, I hope the removal of the Ki Consumption features will come back in a more balance feature to help support the monk class in situations where they have spent all their ki points. Believe this is the next step in supporting to improve all the subclasses for the monk.
Huh. I didn't realize the synergy between the Unarmed Fighting style and Monks in general. I thought about the Crusher feat, but that one is useless for the Astral Arms, since they don't deal bludgeoning damage.
You do have a point . But it would be good to get other feats like sentinel, and use that extra range , or even grappler and/or tavern brawler so you can grapple as a bonus action and get advantage on all your attacks.
Keep in mind, you can still hit with your meat appendages too.
With the martial versatility feature, you can swap out the unarmed fighting style for blind fighting style once your martial arts die upgrades to d8s, or maybe thrown fighting for your darts.
Since visage gives you basically drow style darkvison I would go the thrown fighting style
@@rabbidcreature9681 Blindsight is useful even if you have darkvision since invisible foes can still screw with you without it
Nvl1 fighting initiate, unarmed fighting style, be a 1d8 unarmed strike monk
@@nshikamaru08 Yes, but that feat will become useless when your martial arts die becomes a d8. To off set this, use the mechanic that lets you switch it to another fighting style at that level (or ASI I believe).
If your target is grappled, Unarmed Fighting also lets you do 1d4 bludgeoning damage after all of your other attacks. This sadly doesn't get upgraded, since it isn't an unarmed strike.
I played the ua version a while ago and it was so fun and i love the now official version. However, they still made the mistake of not specifying what the DC is for the new aoe Arms of Astral self feature. I'd assume it's against the ki save dc but nothing like that is mentioned at all. Just something they still need to do
@ the bug stomping point
in starfinder there's a bit of spammable combat healing for some of the classes, and you have to be engaged with a SIGNIFIGANT ENEMY to access those abilities.
basically a malfuncitoning drone that can only do 1 damage per turn at best, or something that's -4 CR weaker than you is not considered a significant enemy.
i seriously hope DMs dont get baited by minmaxers oof
The D8 feat from fighter I think would require you to use STR, but I'm not 100% on that, however there's no reason a monk can't use SRT, looking at the classic Tortle Monk str build. This doesn't change astral arms however, because I'm pretty sure those specify using you Martial arts die, not "whatever your unarmed strikes do"
The Unarmed fighting style is pretty nutty when you consider that at level 11 you get that d8 as a monk.
I mean, yeah. But I think it's still pretty balanced, considering that many weapons a Fighter can use deals a d8 of damage (or even more), and monk can use monk weapons and/or DEX for attack.
@@ender4101 It's not unbalanced at all. I think it just shows that monks might need to get that d8 a bit faster :P
@@typoko Eh, maybe. I don't think it would be bad if they did it.
Oh and it gets better. In Tasha's, when you hit a level where you ASI you can change fighting style. MY MONK CAN GET FIGHTER SUPERIORITY DIE OR BE A DARKNESS FIGHTER.
Blind fighting! Have a friendly cast darkness, where the only thing that escapes is the screams of your enemies
Superior Strategy! IDK, take trip attack or disarming strike. Hell dude, just disarm that one. Screw THAT guy in particular!
In essence, do your 4 attack monk (4d8+5 from level five onwards) until LVL 12, where then you just go even further beyond
but it's with strength modifier instead of dex
It’s a good thing you misunderstood the actual effectiveness of this subclass In UA, and showed people how to go through the survey to promote that misunderstanding.
We wouldn’t want more than one viable monk subclass.
This printed subclass dedicated pretty man ch all of its feature resources to ineffectively redo the base class features until level 11.
11:10
“This first level ability gave you five punches” that’s a complete misrepresentation of the feature and is patently false. That’s like saying the rogues first level feature sneak attack gives 10d6 bonus damage. The features scale with level.
“2 punches from extra attack, plus an additional 3” extra attack is gained at level 5, the extra 3 attacks as a bonus action would have come at level 17. The additional extra attack would come at level 17 too.
Am I reading Tasha's cauldron of everything correctly? Way of the astral self loses all of it's bonus action extra attacks it had before in UA and now you need to use flurry of blows at level 17 to do a total of 5 attacks (using ki for both activation of astral self to get astral barrage and just to use more than one bonus action attack with flurry of blows), because I don't see anything on bonus action attacks now in the archetype.
The video from the UA of this subclass was the first time I ever saw your channel!
You can also, (and one of my players already has) combined this with the new magic tattoo the “Eldritch Claw Tattoo” and I’m scared of my level 3 monk ngl.
Was planning to do the same thing LOL
the things a uncommon magic item so if your any kind of monk I HIGHLY recommend the magic item
Look
There is 30+ magical sword
10+ magical axes
2 or 3 Magic spear (I want more spear)
You can actually give Monk an offensive item lol
@@anonyme4881 Very true, but to add onto your spear point I also want more bow
@@allenfortenberry9924 I want more magic item in general.
I cannot overstate how much this fixed the subclass. My current char is an Astral Monk, and the UA version, I used the astral arms ONCE due to an enemy being vulnerable to radiant.
UA version is just bad. It didn't even break even until 11th level. I played sheerly for the flavor. My kobold has an inner dragon spirit (I've never seen Jojo's, so idc about stands). Just before Tasha's, they released the dragon specific UA and I was contemplating asking to switch, but this fix made everything better.
At 17th level, Astrals have been nerfed, but every other aspect is now better. I can flurry at 10ft now (couldn't before), I don't feel like I'm wasting a turn summoning them with the AoE. Gosh, everything is so much better now. I'd still argue it's a sidegrade from base monk until level 11 (When Unarmed hits d8s and Enhanced Arms comes on) but at 6th, I'll give props to the wombo combo of my group comp using Darkness on my monk's gi, and using my visage to still see and rain hell (especially as that negates sunlight weakness on my kobold)
Zenyatta is obviously a Warforged Monk, but is he Way of the Sun Soul, Mercy, or Astral Self??? Such a difficult decision!
I'd go combat Zenyatta. Astral self all the way! (Although sun soul is kinda nice for that ranged attack)
I'd actually say that Zenyatta would be a Cleric. Monks in DnD are frontline fighters, swiftly dodging attacks and stunning enemies up in the enemies' faces. Zen, on the other hand, prefers to stay on the backline, supporting his team with healing and damage buffs while only jumping in when he uses his ultimate. While he can do decent damage, he typically does it from the backline, avoiding much of the skirmishes that the tanks and close-ranged damage heroes often find themselves in. While some cleric subclasses can be on the frontline and perform well, others prefer to stay back and let other people tank damage while they support, so I think this would fit better. As for which subclass he could be, I'd go with Life Domain because Preserve Life can act as a good stand-in for Transcendence. Grave domain could also work since the Path to the Grave can give a damage boost similar to Discord Orb, if a bit more extreme.
The feat specifies that you use str for damage on the d8, which makes it to where you can't dump str as a monk anymore, because if you even have 12 str and 16 dex, the d4+dex would be the same average as d8+str, except now you lost a feat (1 dmg is avg of increasing die size, so 2 dmg turns d4 avg into d8 avg, except its more consistent rather than rng)
astral monks can swap their strength and wisdom mods around when summoning the arms which means that an astral monk at lvl 3 can do 1d8 + wisdom per punch (3d8 +12 if all land excluding crits and if wis = 18)...just food for thought
You mentioned that after you summon the arms, I can make 3 or 2 attacks due to m artial arts of flurry...but to summon the arms it uses a bonus action, as does doing the extra attack with martial arts. You can't do both, or am I missing something?
Fun idea. Aarakocra Fighter/Way of astral self multiclass that puts the focus on grappling and attacking with wisdom based arms. Unarmed fighting style lets you not worry about how many monk levels you need for martial arts die damage as long as you have arms of the astral self and the ki to use them. Don't need ki empowered strikes if you're dealing force damage. Take monk for 5 levels for stunning strike and the rest fighter. Take ASI and feats that increase wisdom and grappling ability (and fighter gets a lot of them). At level 6 you can grapple your opponent, punch them in the face with extra attack, step of the wind to dash and fly them 60 feet straight up in the air then drop them (no action required) for 6d6 fall damage. Next turn you fly back down and grapple them again punch them with twice with extra attack and martial arts bonus action. Third turn if they're still alive and you've still got them grappled use your movement, action and step of the wind to double dash them 90 feet up and drop them again for 9d6 more fall damage. Unless they've got a way to not take fall damage you're getting guaranteed damage that doesn't require attack rolls. Biggest problem I can see is running out of ki quickly but man it seems like it could be fun to try.
Combine 17 Astral Monk with 3 Echo knight and max constitution. Between the monk attacks, incarnation attacks, action surge and flurry of blows you get some really nice damage
I started a monk in a long term custom campaign and i started with unarmed fighting style and yeah the damage is great. Ourranger with thrown weapon fighting does more damage but there tasha's feats do so much damage.
Haven't gotten to astral self yet but I'm also gonna enjoy using a wisdom based grapple.
DM: so it's your turn, Jotaro Giovanna, what would you like to...
Me: ORAAA! ORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORA ORAAA!
DM: and for your bonus...
Me: MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA WRYYYYYYYYYYY
(they should have added a capstone were you'd be able to stop time )
At level 19, that's fine man.. lol
3 levels barbarian for bear totem then you off ically use your right to bear arms. Also so really good synergy.
I was thinking beast path but yeah the pun is worth it.
My favorite thing is that the most you can take from any dex save is a quarter damage. Also the strength monk reigns supreme.
hi :D, im in love with dnd, but i uduallly cant play it. I GOT A QUESTION, how does "bonus action works" im a bit lost couse i think in the videou talks about 5 or 6 hits, but the extra attack i a bonus action adn flurry of blows is another bonus action, so, do i have 2 bonus action per turn?
Unarmed fighting style makes barbarians good brawlers now
The thing with the fighting style feat is it requires proficiency with all martial weapons, which no monk gets. Base it’s only useful for Fighters, Paladins, Rangers, and Barbs, unless your subclass gets you proficiency. Also, the fighting style can only be chosen by Fighters normally. So monks would be better dipping 2 in Fighter instead of the feat.
I'm pretty sure it is "a" martial weapon, not "all" martial weapons. Short Swords are martial weapons.
I remember reading the UA for this subclass when it was released and thinking how broken it sounded on my first read. Some of the ideas were really great such as the idea of the psychic armor and such. It's good to see it's been balanced out now. The idea of having 1d8 attacks isn't all that crazy when a player and wield weapons doing that much damage right off at level one. I'm sure there are ways of getting multiple attacks as well, very early on.
'd8 at level 1 is insane'
Meanwhile PHB fighter gets higher HP, higher AC, and literally the same if he goes Varian Human Dual Wielder
Looking forward to making a clumsy firbolg astral self monk that focuses on wisdom and doesn’t worry about dexterity too much.
So I've been toying with the idea of a Protector Aasimar Astral Self Monk (because flying with ghost punches is cool), and then I noticed the sheer number of resistances that character could get. If you take one level of Barbarian to get rage, I think you can have some form of damage reduction against every type of damage with the sole exception of psychic damage.
From what I remember if the UA the watcher paladin seemed more like a monster/aberration hunter, the watchers in Marvel aren't supposed to get involved with anything. They just kinda watch.
Extra invisible arms... my friend rob figured this out in 2nd edition.
20th level Divination Wizard
I have a question: Yesterday, at my weekly game, I had a little argument with my GM and other players on ''the arms of the astral self'' and the mobile feat. I argued that activating the arms and that hitting the targets or not is a melee attack (due to the fact that you later use them as such), thus activating the mobile feat to those who were hit (or not). Am I in the wrong here? ( I totally don't mind if so)
The blast of energy the arms make are not a melee attack
Legitimate question because the book wording confuses me
By level 20 full astral monk with your whole astral self implemented, how does your turn look trying to do the max number of damage?
Turn 1...
Movement: if needed in order to get into range
Bonus Action: Awakened Astral Self
Action: Attack three times (Stunning Strike if any hit)
Turn 2+...
Movement: not needed
Action: Attack 3 times (advantage if stunned)
Bonus Action: Flurry of Blows (attack two more times as a bonus action)
If Unarmed Fighting works like you are talking about, you can then switch it out for another fighting style at level 12 at the ASI when your MA die is up to a d8.
Yeah, you'd definitely not want to keep it with most Monk subclasses, although it's a bit more generally synergistic with Way of the Astral Self thanks to the Wisdom based Strength checks making grappling way more accessible to a Monk of that flavor.
I think that the only problem with getting the unarmed fighting style on monk is that it requires, counterintuitively, proficiency with a martial weapon, meaning this falls apart unless you multiclass or go Kinsei monk.
monks naturally have proficiency with shortswords, a martial weapon
@@thurismundbotheric7598 Just checked, fair enough. Didn't think Shortswords were martial.
@@Cosmic_K13 No worries, it's easy to forget since you almost never see them
Love the topic.
And that shirt is a great choice.
Monks need love too.
Regarding your speculation, the unarmed strikes would do 1d8 but its bludgeoning and your Astral Arms do a monk die of force. Its wacky, but because the damage types would be stepping on their toes, theres no way Id let astral arms deal bludgeoning.
Anyone else wanna know how this monk works on the astral plane?
This is how I made Lucy from Elfen lied
The is with the unarmed fighting style is that some subclasses specifically mention the martial arts die and you don't want to multiclass to much as a monk because they need their ki so much. Especially this subclasses because when you are incapacitated the arms go away
Though i had an idea of making a bugbear astral self monk with high wisdom multiclassing for 2 levels in to war cleric for divine favor. Because divine favor gives you a d4 on every attack you make. So you boosted your damage output by quite a bit and the benefit over hunters mark or hex is that divine favor is on yourself so you don't have to use a bonus action everytime you kill someone.
You can take Fighting Style as Feat. Though I think there are better things for monk to take.
Everyone: JOJO Monk
Me: thats a Susanoo! (maybe just the first level of it, but still)
The problem with the arms is that you basically lose 2 unarmed attacks to activate it. Its the same cost as a flurry of blows and chews up your bonus action so you need to decide whether the aoe and reach is worth 2 attacks especially early on when you are now priced into only using unarmed strikes and not weapon attacks (which often have higher die)
And this is a problem... why? You have options, you aren't forced into one pattern of behavior, why it is bad? Plus if there are at least two enemies, AoE already worth it.
If there's at least 2 targets in range, the AoE is probably better than making 2 attacks.
@@antongrigoryev6381 not really
You lose out on 2x your dex. So if you have a +3 dex at lvl 3 a flurry of blows does 2d4+6 if you hit both. This ability does 2d4 assuming they fail the save
@@TheGolleum13 The ability deals twice martial die to one target, so it's 2d4 to each and 4d4 in total. Considering average Dex at 3rd lvl as +3 and average d4 roll as 2.5, and assuming the chance of miss and of successful save the same, you don't lose that much, while getting reach for a minute in the process. And reach early on is super useful if you have other frontline characters - monks are not the tankiest characters.
@@antongrigoryev6381 but you are procing yourself out of using a quarter staff so you are downgrading from 1d8 to 1d4 for the duration of the ability
I am just saying you are losing damage by taking it, and while the reach might be worth it in some campaigns its very much a trade off.
Its also better to do all that damage on 1 target than it is to spread it out. Killing one off is better for the action economy. If it was the exact same damage (which it isnt) its still better to unload on 1 enemy
Genuinely confused as to how the 6 attacks from the Astral Self monk was considered OP. I get the Ki regen being too much but not anything else. I've been playing an AS Monk for a while and I'm not going to be swapping to the Tasha's version - I'd rather not play it.
Compare an AS Monk damage output and defences to a fighter at level 20. The fighter can wear +3 armour and carry a +3 sword without even requiring attunemet slots. Pick a fighter focused on damage - great weapon fighting style and great weapon mastery feat. Do the maths and the fighter's damage comes out way ahead and their hp and AC are likely to be higher as well (unless the monk can max Wis and Dex for AC and Con for health).
They should have reduced the Ki needed to adopt the full body, taken away the Ki regen, and maybe given some other utility benefit.
Ultimately I'm going to be sticking with the UA version or making some home-brew changes to the UA version. I won't ever be playing the Tasha's version.
I feel like people need to realize that everyone has the right to an opinion lol
What people often forget is that we have the right of an opinion, but the DUTY of making an informed and responsible one
I usually just give em the "Dude" gif/quote.
It is so sad when people are incorrect. No opinions for you
I never had an issue with the JoJo monk because I had someone play one in a one-shot and she got downed VERY easily by a couple of fire elementals. They're very glass-cannon-y.
Yeah, that's the general issue with monks. They're kinda like rogues in that they still need a solid frontline tank and then they can dance around them. My shadow monk always was the first to go down if I didn't retreat or patient defence after every attack
My issue with this one in particular is that your "Stand" doesn't really come out until level 17.
One unlucky game is in no way a display of subclass strength.
@@RokuroCarisu They worded better so the stand come out at lv 11
@@antongrigoryev6381 it's not even that she was unlucky though; if it weren't for the armorer artificer with sentinel she probably wouldve been killed outright. the 10 foot reach is great so long as enemies don't get within attacking range. enemies like, for example, fire elementals with 50 feet of movement who can set you aflame just by passing through your space
Wait doesn't Action Surge gives an additional bonus action? So if you have a 17/2 monk/fighter, you could do 3 normal, 2 bonus, 3 normal, 2 bonus for a total of 10 attacks in 1 turn?
No, action surge only gives an extra action. You only ever have 1 bonus action
This subclass was done dirty with it's capstone ability. It does less than what a caster can do at level 5 with the Haste spell. A way of the open hand can kill anybody with 3 ki points while the way of the astral self can throw one extra punch? This is so disappointing.
Yeah the capstone is actually really terrible compared to the UA version. You don't get a 6th attack anymore, and now that you have force AoE in the Astral monk, it competes with this capstone. I don't think you can use the AoE after popping the capstone. And finally you gave up 5 potential uses of stunning strike to unlock these once-per-turn attacks. Which seems like a poor tradeoff.
@@bodbyss it's written that you summon all 3 parts with the capstone, arms included. The way I understand it is that you still can do the AoE damage. The capstone is still terrible though
I can honestly agree (even if the comparison is technically a bit hyperbolic in so far that the capstone stacks with all the previous subclass features and doesn't require concentration). Without the Ki Consumption trait, not to mention the way the feature has been reflavored, it really feels like it's missing something to give the full awakening an appropriate level of impact. Also, using that Haste spell comparison, it could be said to effectively be even less cost effective than the much complained about Way of the Four Elements subclass's Ki prices for spells. Trimming the fat and making everything more streamlined throughout the rest of the features I think was handled pretty well, but the capstone deserved a bit more tweaking, even at the risk of being more complex.
First thing I'd do, make the cost 4 Ki. The only reason the original version was so expensive was because you could easily recover the cost as part of the feature, so simply half the cost is not enough of a reduction. With it set to 4 instead of 5, the Monk's level 20 Perfect Self feature would allow one to always be able to bring out their fully Awakened Astral Self each battle (at the expense of having no Ki on hand for any other usage, though, so it still doesn't make the feature particularly worth doing every fight as is, since it's then overtly limiting your flexibility with base class features).
Next, some options for how to make it stronger. It's already adding an additional attack (alongside the level 11 plus one martial arts die per turn on attack of your choice that you can easily pick to add to a crit), so additional passive improvements to damage output should be taken off the table. Increasing the burst damage when activating it might not be out of the question, though, or maybe more favorably adding an additional effect to that burst damage, like knocking the targets prone or imposing disadvantage on the saving throw against it to make up for the higher upfront cost of summoning the Arms this way instead of in the previous ways. Or, you could Stun creatures that fail the Dex saving throw when you activate it, as an extension of your Stunning Strike (which might help against high Con monsters, but is a bit more unwieldy to repeat within the same combat). That said, it's a bit late in the class to be enhancing that burst of damage aspect and it'd not really fit as a bullet point of a "when it's active" trait, so maybe not the best option?
The other thing the capstone could do is enhance other existing features of the subclass. Some ideas that jump out at me are making Deflect Energy no longer take a reaction, and/or being able to use it like Deflect Missiles to hold the energy in your astral arms' hands and throw it as attack as part of the reaction, not requiring the reduce the dame to 0 part (although, the fact that it was nerfed to not include Monk level was quite the disappointment ...honestly, this idea could have been part of the level 11 feature including the reduce to 0 requirement if not for the nerf, always found it weird the feature was named after the base class one yet didn't just copy its mechanics wholesale).
...And, I got tired of writing the comment, been setting on it unfinished for a while and already too long anyway.
@@iandormoy7487 Maybe you can do the AoE when you activate the capstone, but you can't re-do the AoE on the next turn by spending the ki point. Which you could possibly do if your capstone wasn't active. That AoE every turn actually seems like one of the best features a monk could possibly have unless you're purely fighting one single creature. 2d10 to 2 or more creatures, vs an extra d10 + mod to one creature as an example.
They cut down the number of attacks to 5 from the original 6. But they did add the AoE. It does kind of suck that they got rid of the Ki vampire at 17.
What about a Echo knight astral self multi class? This works right?
JoJo Bizarre Adventure, but your stand is Susanoo.
You can indeed use all of the Astral Self powers with your echo.
Taking 3 levels in Echo Knight Fighter with the Unarmed Fighting style and the other 17 levels in Astral Self Monk should be ideal.
If you want to go for maximum "ORA!", play a Simic Hybrid with Grappling Appendages and get the Grappler feat. ;)
This might just be me but while I love the astral Stand punching Jojo shit a lot, I'm also very interested in the Visage. Namely, you get advantage on Intimidation checks and everyone in 600 feet can hear you. With Monk's natural Tongue of the Sun and Moon, those people can all understand you guaranteed if they're smart enough to understand a language. So picture the Monk suddenly sprouting a large astral projection and booming to everyone within a football field's radius all around them that they are a vengeful god come to end their very existence. I could have a lot of fun with that.
2 football fields actually
You're right, it is two. Even more impressive a distance to yell into everyone's head.
Why is Dutch the only captions option?
To that point with the unarmed fighting style, your strength checks become wisdom for grappling. Officially the best grapple monk.
Kinda reminds me of the hands scene in Watchmen. You cannot unsee this.
If you take the Unarmed Fighter fighting style and use that for your unarmed strikes, it's important to remember that any extra damage dealt by your martial arts die will not be increased to a d6 or d8 if it's lower.
True but you can swap the fighting out at level 12
@@NerdImmersion Oh, I didn't know that. If that's an optional rule in Tasha's, I haven't gotten it yet because I'm hoping to win your giveaway!
@@rallozarx4215 not an optional rule, that's just part of the feat's wording!
I've been anticipating playing with the Astral Self monk. Soon I will be playing in an 1-shot with 17 levels of Astral Self monk and 3 levels of echo knight.
Everyone: JOJO Monk
Me, also a weeb: Saint Seiya Monk
Whaaat, why seya ? I ser nothing alike.
You mean the armor?
I feel you man, imagine you punch and It is like a dragon flying out of your arm, or a Pegasus coming as you do Flurry of Blows
Just a quick comment, if you use the unarmed fighting style, your astral self fists would do a d8 of bludgeoning, not force, which could be worth keeping in mind.
Not for sure. It's up to DM. Unarmed Fighting increases your unarmed damage, and Arms change its type to Force.
@@antongrigoryev6381 Unarmed fighting style specifies that your unarmed attacks "can" deal a d8 bludgeoning damage, this means that is a choice to replace whatever your normal unarmed strike does (obviously for most character they're always going to use this so its a nonissue). Obviously a DM can choose to rule it differently, but a DM can choose to rule anything in anyway that they want so that isn't a particularly sturdy case. (unless you have a new DM who isn't likely to check wordings, or someone really generous. Your mileage may vary) Rules as written if you take the D8, you're doing bludgeoning. Might be worth it in some cases (especially vs. skeletons), but if you're fighting something you suspect to be resistant to bludgeoning, it's probably worth rolling the D6 and bypassing resistances.
Does that fighting style scale up as you level up in Monk? Because if it does it's helps fix the damage balance for monks as a whole
No it don't, but you can retrain it and get other fighting style.
a potentially fun thing to do would to be a gestalt character (go through two classes at the same time, getting both features and the better of overlaps) with this class... fighter-monk. (the UA version would be more fun in that regard though. :3)
also, in order to get that fighting style for the unarmed fighting, you'd need proficiency in a martial weapon. ...... is what I said at first, thinking I disproved... but no. Monks get shortswords..... which are martial weapons. so yeah, a variant human monk could take that feat, then when they get to the level that they deal a d8 anyways, at the next ASI swap it out.
Assuming that the synergy works. the specific of the feat might require str for it. (yet the specific of the Martial Arts feature say otherwise.... Does anyone have official word from crawford about this combo?)
still think that strongest would be an elf with elven accuracy + multiclassing into samurai lvl3.
with all of those advantages and action surges it is really noticable dmg in 3-4 turns of combat
take mobile feat to run around and stun people just for luls as well
at least on of them will stun an enemy
You want to get even crazier? Yeah, level 2 fighter gives you 8 attacks. But go one level more and take that 3rd level fighter and take Echo Knight. You get ANOTHER attack through your echo. Nuts.
Anyway, overall, it was nerfed on the whole. It got nerfed HARD (and rightfully so) at high levels, but got a much needed buff at low levels. But it ended up balanced much better. Nerfed, yes, but no one can argue that the high end wasn't crazy.
Just a sidenote: A monk multiclassing into echo knight at lvl 6 (3 and 3) can have 6 attacks in a turn, bumping up to 8 at level 8 (monk 5, fighter 3)
Still planning an Astral Monk 17/Echo Knight 3 Jojo build.
I want to multiclass this with a Bloodhunter, name them Fiddlesticks
I honestly thought that the extra attacks were a key part of the identity of the astral self, regardless of whether it was "overpowered" or not. It's way less cool when you go from "I summon a BUNCH OF ARMSTO PUMMEL YOU MORE" to "I summon arms so I can punch you with reach." You get nothing to actually increase your damage output until level 11. :(
Yer weirdly the healing monk (mercy) has a higher damage output early for a monk class I assume is for damage astral doesn’t do more damage then a normal monk until way later in which campaigns could be over
I just realized a flaw with the rat bag idea. The bag holder would need to use his whole action to use item to remove a rat and then the rat has to be killed as one attack from another player or next turn then monk uses reaction to gain ki. This would also invalidate astral arms bonus action attack if monk pulls out rat because you have to attack with arms action first. Alternative he would hit the bag with his arms potentially killing half the bag of rats or all of them because he can't target a particular rat because they have full cover in the bag. So following raw, that idea in particular has a lot of flaws. There is probably a better way that would have worked, but this ain''t it. Honestly I am very happy with the changes in ki cost at the expense of regaining ki at 17, but it wasn't as easy to abuse as it seems at a glance.
I feel like Im missing something how does it let you do 3 attacks? it didnt say anywhere they let you attack again in the new version.
Monks as a class get to make a single unarmed strike as a bonus action with martial arts and at second level they can expend ki points to use flurry of blows which is two unarmed strikes as a bonus action. Hope I helped :)
@@evanboeckh5033 ahh that's what I thought but then it wouldnt be special for astral self which is what confused me
I just realized that veril from dmc is a deulist fighter and an astral self monk
My friend said you couldn't use both because it's like different armour calculation not stacking.
What exactly do you mean?
@@antongrigoryev6381 the new fighting style and martial arts combo, sorry brains still half asleep.
@@leonhunter2638 Not necessarily your friend is right then. Both features affect unarmed attacks in different ways. Fighting Style changes damage die, while Arms - range and damage type.
Well, if your friend is DM, then he has the right to rule it as he wants - because it's exactly the sort of situation you need to talk to your DM about. Unless we'll get some words from Jeremy Crawford.
@@antongrigoryev6381 yeah honestly I can't see it being game breaking, a little strong starting out sure but there are plenty of other classes that get features that are equally if not more powerful than this. Not playing it at the moment just figured I'd point it out.
How do you get a fighting style at first level? It's not a feat....
It is in this book, I haven't covered the new feats from this book yet
It's a bit harder to chew through all of your ki points using stunning strike than most people realize, it can only be used with melee weapon attacks
Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks, they're just not attacks with a melee weapon. Believe me, I understand how dumb that sounds
That makes sense if you think about it extremely hard, but it wouldn't kill wizards to put an asterisk or article somewhere to explain some of these rules in the actual books, especially ones that are easy to misinterpret.
So how can it be possible, that we cant do two weapon fighting with unnarmed? I highly doubt that my hand is heavier than a short sword, a sickle, a scimitar !? It does not make sense... Also would this synergise with a natural weapon like the Leonin Claws?
It would synergize with a natural weapon, since its a melee weapon attack, but you're not holding any weapons, so two weapon fighting doesn't apply. You wouldn't need it anyway, you can always do an unarmed strike as a bonus action with monk.
@@eainjones9509 well you got a point there. But what if it were a fighter ? Because as read , unnarmed attack is a melee weapon attack, that don't use a melee weapon. Should we not be able to use our bonus action to be able to attack? Even though we are not a monk?
I would love to play an astralmonk bugbear grabbler