Sometimes it's not complicated. I commute to work with a laptop and clothes = waterproof. The complex portion is what to put in each bag. I keep extra clothing, rain gear, tools, and "always on the bike" stuff in one bag, Computer, cloths, and food go in the other. When I get to work I remove just the one bag, leave the bike in the locked area, and head to the gym for the showers.
Here in Southern Arizona, the resistance to attack from the sun's UV rays is more important than waterproofness. My 3-1/2 year old Ortlieb Gravel Pack Pannier has stood up to thousands of hours out in the sun. The fabric is still in perfect shape. Only the male portion of all the plastic buckles have failed - due to thousands of uses or maybe UV attack on the plastic. Ortlieb did replace the broken buckles.
"For me, however, I find that the answer is a lot more complicated." I once answered a woman's question like that. Needlessly to say, she was not happy. She did not think it was complicated. She gave me back the ring. However, she kept the bike and panniers I gave her. And the panniers were waterproof! Russ, that experience taught me we make things too complicated sometimes. Blessings to the two of you, especially Laura.
There's also the "almost" waterproof option, like the Ortlieb Bike-packer/Sport-packer bags, that has those welded seams and all that, but sacrifice that last bit of waterproofness by having a flap closure instead of a roll top. It won't stay dry if submerged, but will most likely handle torrential rain well.
I use these since 1989 and like them much better than the rolltop bags. On my bicycle trips in 1986 and 1987 in England I used non waterproof bags and it was terrible, after long days in torrential rain *everything* was wet even though I had packed many things in plastic bags. On my Scotland trip in summer 1989 I had Ortlieb bags with the flap on top and although this trip had even more rain than the England trips, my stuff stayed dry. It made a big difference.
I use the cap-lid Ortlieb panniers and they are excellent regarding waterproof. The roll-top is really only relevant if you expect that you will be dunking the panniers into a lake for several minutes/hours, or floating them down a river. The cap-lid Bikepackers will keep all your gear dry in torrential rain, and more critically, you can stow some damp kit under the lid without causing it to make the contents of the inner bag all damp and manky. My clothing and sleeping bag do not get wet inside the Bikepackers at all.
I used to use the 2 Wheel Gear Convertible Pannier Backpack for commuting. It is water resistant in light rain, but also comes with a rain cover for heavy downpours.
One aspect of waterproof bags that was not mentioned is that non waterproof materials can absorb water and ad a significant amount of weight during a a long wet ride. Waterproof bags will shed nearly all of the water.
My tent gets packed up as dry as it gets (with use of Chux squeegee wipes to assist) then packed in my Ortlieb 30 litre drybag. It then gets removed to dry at lunchtime (if I remember) or just dries out in half-an-hour in the afternoon when pitched at camp. Normally this is enough to get it fully dry.
For commuting, it can be handy to be able to quickly transfer panniers from one rack to another. Sometimes it helps to see what kind of snow has fallen while I was asleep before I decide which bicycle to bring to work. Speed of access is definitely a useful feature. Stowing and retrieving warm clothing from a handlebar or frame bag without stopping can make commutes a lot more comfortable, but I rely on the more fussy roll-top waterproof panniers on my rear rack simply for their storage volume.
The top-class waterproof panniers (Ortlieb) are extremely waterproof AND very quick & easy to transfer from one bike to another, or to remove and carry into the office. I use the cap-lid Bikepacker/Sportpacker version as the extreme waterproofing of the Rollers is not required for most uses.
As always , Very Helpful. When I was guiding, Bike, Canoe, Back Pack trips I always told my trippers " The only thing water proof is a frogs ear." Damp gear in a pack make everything in the pack damp. My son uses water proof bags and I use water resistant a liner bag with a 10 mil liner bag. The 10 mil l bags are almost indestructible and are used for asbestos disposable. A grocery bag for reference is one mil. To protect small items I am now using the Stacher silicon bags, found in the food section of many food stores. They come in many different sizes and several shapes and have as many uses as you can think of. And can be reused hundreds of time, with a simple sealing and opening system. They come in colors and clear. I have a clear one to put my phone in if rain is on the way. and I can do most of the functions while it is the Stacher bag. I use them for paper maps (old school) for picking up a meal on the road and taking it to the camp site, Left overs from a meal to be eaten down the road., a small one to carry batteries. etc They are so much better than zip lock bags. I use the ones with a flat bottom to soak grains such as Rice , Bulger or Freekeh to reduce cooking time to a few minutes.. Remember UV rays breakdown the water repellency on packs. It's a good idea to spry new repellent on every year. For my padded handlebar bag where I carry my camera, and other often needed items I have a light weight water proof cover that fits over the handle bar bag stashed in a hidden outside pocket. The advantage of a liner bag is that if I have wet items I can place them between the pannier and the plastic bag . But the reality is everyone ahs to do what works for them,. When touring I carry a dry bag on top of my rear rack with my sleeping system.
I find welded bag have huge advantage over classic construction- it's much more spacious. The folds and stitchings on the inside take so much space for top tube bags, small saddle bags, smaller front triangle bags. It really makes a difference.
I like my Carradice canvas bike bags. Doesn't rain much where I live but I did do two weeks in April rain in the UK. Nothing got wet, and nor did I need any plastic bag liners. I highly recommend them.
Hmmm very interesting ! I never thought non-water proof bags can have advantages, but I think you are right : it allows us more options in terms of packing. And in fact, it’s exactly what I’m looking for ! You can always purchase a waterproof protection. So thank you for sharing your point of view because it opens more possibilities to me 😉 see you on the road !
My Ortlieb Gravel Pack panniers, saddle bags, front roll and Sea to Summit dry bags served me well on a recent 800 mike bikepacking tour. Everything stayed dry during torrential rains. Never leave home without them.
Good points I never really thought about. I ride in mostly dry conditions and don't go on long tours but I went with waterproof bags because I figure that time you do get caught out in the rain you will be really glad you have them. I totally agree with the organization though. Organization is always a good thing.
Third option: elasticized waterproof bag/pannier covers. I use these on my panniers and they're marvelous. True, one side of the bag is partially exposed, but it's never been a problem -- and that includes riding in a downpour. It's a handy solution because you regain the full functionality of the bag once the rain clears up and you remove the cover.
I like having a mix of both, as well as a stock of dry bags on hand for trips. I also have trunk style bag that has a built-in rain cover which works awesome for unexpected showers while commuting.
@@Korina42Wp fabric dries quickly, plus no complex seams that tend to hold water. So mildew? Not if you don't forget your sandwich or banana in there... 😅. Mildew is said to weaken even synthetic fabrics, btw.
I'm usually touring with waterproof panniers and a Carradice saddlebag, which has proven to be fairly water resistant. Even long days in the rain has kept the insides pretty much dry but I realize there are limits to it. The ease of access however is unparalleled with a giant side pocket that easily holds 15 energybars. The only change I want to make eventually is to replace the buckles with magnetic fidlock closure. To open a pocket and just let go to automatically close again is brilliant.
There’s also some other things to consider. How about price point? Durability? History of the company and customer service? I’ve got some Ortlieb of the bags that I’ve had for over a decade and used daily commute. Bags from a small company are nice but will they last as long as you need and will the company be around when a closure gives out? Another nice thing that may or may not be a deal breaker is waterproof bags can also be used as coolers. One can go from the market to the beach or the woods with them filled with loose ice and cold beverages.
While it's not a fix as easy as sending it in with a warranty, I will say that risk is mitigated if you have a gear repair shop in town. I've gotten a lot more months and miles out of my stuff after finding the Repair Lair
The third option with cheap bags is the water-proof liner. The ones I have with Banjo Bothers( I got what I paid for) The liners are best pulled out. I am more into water resistant and bagging up sensitive stuff. The idea of stinky clothes, food, and garbage all in a water proof non breathable dry bag is unappealing.
I once submerged my Oveja Negra Gearjammer seatpack in the tub to test it and it is indeed not water proof. On the bike though in the rain, getting sprayed by the rear tire Ive never had water come into the bag. I find I prefer a highly water resistant sewn bag to a stiff plastic feeling welded one. My personal setup is a mix of waterproof and mostly water resistant bags where I feel like they make the most sense.
I have a Carradice Barley, which I bought only a year ago. Only tried 1 time during heavy rain. My things inside the bag are dry, but I have to wipe the bag with a dry rug and air dry
They are incredibly water resistant. I've used them on very extended, multi day wet rides and everything inside was completely dry. You do need to let them dry out slowly though.
Agree with this video. It all depends on what the climate is where you live and plan to ride. I live in Iceland and still do my touring here. Weather is unpredictable and it will rain. I also have to cross rivers sometimes on tour so I absolutely need a waterproof bag and not just a waterproof cover over a pannier. But if I was living in a dry climate with steady weather, then I would probably expand the possible bags to something that is not waterproof...
Some of each! But I agree with the liner bag for my Swift bags, for things you for sure want to keep dry. I have those ortlieb gravel paniers for commuting and they've been great for all weather in the PNW.
Amen! And props for distinguishing between PNW "mist" vs. Gulf Coast waterfall. Outdoor stores have a lot of cheap, lightweight, convenient, totally waterproof stuff sacks, but you'll probably find them in the rafting section. When bikepacking I stick my sleep system and sensitive electronics in those. When not bikepacking, I just get wet. I can be pretty wet for a day at a time, I just don't like sleeping wet. In the greater Seattle area we don't get truly soaked that often (the exception being January 2020, when we pretty much got dumped on for a month), it's usually like walking through the produce section at the grocery store. You practically dry off as you ride through it.
For touring (day-tours and especially extended camping tours) in all weathers, waterproof qualities really DO make a great difference. Sure, you can tour without this, but cordura coated fabrics are about the WORST to use. In the '80s I loved my cotton Superdux waxed-canvas panniers. Not 100% waterproof, but the cotton swelled when wet to proof the bag to a very high level. My clothing and sleeping bag stayed dry, without having to use drybags. Nowadays the coated PVC (or similar) fabrics of Ortlieb are extremely waterproof (100% really). It is just the openings and mount screw-fastenings that need to be monitored in-use. And my Ortlieb panniers (and my wife's) are STILL in use after 20 years of extended touring over the whole time. So yes, I would recommend getting waterproof panniers, if you want to keep your gear dry.
I have one 100% waterproof seatpack that i keep for stuff i only need to set up camp. My other, more accessible bags are less waterproof but contain stuff that can get wet. Btw, they turned out to withstand a shortish 1 hour violent rainstorm pretty well.
My experience with many decades of backpacking is that waterproof bags are water repellent at best. That in mind, use a very lightweight WATERPROOF bag to put your gear in, then put those inside your carry bag. Works and is realistic. Choose your bags based on your access and volume desired, then add the WATERPROOF storage bags inside.
Having done a few small cycle tours, using a cheap set of triple panniers, I purchased some waterproof panniers from the other major German manufacturer for my last 5 day cycle tour, other than one of the mounts breaking on day I found my previous cheap bags with multiple pockets much more usable, and whilst I will use the waterproof ones for for day rides I will get new non waterproof multi pockets ones for any subsequent cycle tours.
For one of my bikes, the rear bags are Arkel Dry-Lites. The front, some no-name water(resistant) bag for quick access. Every now and again, I have to leave the Dry-Lites open to air out the musty, funky dampness that gets trapped inside them. Best wishes to you a Laura!
Arkel makes some pretty good bags. Here another thing to think about is snow/slush. A lot of good points in this video. There is so much gear you can mix and match to your hearts content. Thanks for the video and you both take care, Al
I use a tarp and a thin bivy over sack for camping so I usually wrap anything that needs to be kept dry (clothes mostly and sleeping bag) in those and my phone goes in an zip lock bag. If I'm not camping (hostel/hotel hopping) I just use thick plastic grocery bags and wrap everything up in those. But to be honest the water that actually gets into my standard and cheapish bags is pretty minimal and manageable even when we get a prolonged downpour.
Probably not necessary, but I am forgetful, and need the waterproof to keep me from dropping the ball, and pulling out clothing X amount of time later with mold all over it ruining it.
As someone who lives in Newfoundland where our weather is RDF (rain, drizzle and fog) 90% of the time, waterproofness is a must. I've been using the same Axiom waterproof panniers for years and they've never failed me. I also tend to put everything in dry bags too.
Waterproof on the outside also means waterproof on the inside. If water gets in, it can't get out. It can migrate or condense inside as well. Every asset can become a liability under the right circumstances. Dedicated waterproof stuff sacks, plus a rain cover for the outer bag, have always served me well. When traveling, it's usually my choice to stay flexible. Stay supple?
I think it depends on the use case to determine if you want water proof or not. I think, if your willing to use your camera in the rain, or open the bag and expose the camera to rain, than a waterproof bag is not necessary. Whereas, if you're on your, or the small daily tour (aka commuting), waterproof bags are peace of mind. Additionally, you can organize a dry bag. You can use a cable organizer, Ort makes an insert for their bags, or you can make your own from scratch. But yes, the big single compartment takes getting used to. I don't perceive the dry bag opening to be a huge time bandit though. It find it less fiddly than a zipper that gets caught in the overlapping fabric.
Water-Resistant bags + Dry Bags in them is the best combo. All the benefits, none of the drawbacks. The dry bags help with organization as well. My .02
In the UK waterproof all the way. Especially if you have a camera in the bag 📸! I use stuff sacks to organize my panniers and for easy to access stuff I have a frame bag, handlebar or stem bags. I have city bags that I got to the office (25 minutes) and stuff was damp 😔 Having said that I love a bag you can use on and off the bike. Most of which are only water resistant so I keep covers inside them for those freak downpours we get here in the south west of the UK. 😀
No matter how waterproof a bag is, if you have to put wet stuff in it (like a soaking-wet tent or tarp, or soggy clothes) the other stuff in it is going to get wet. When it is really wet I often wish for drain holes in my panniers. You can also benefit a lot from strategic double-bagging. There is no point bagging stuff that is already wet or is reasonably meant to get wet (e.g. raingear or a tarp). On the other hand, guarding precious stuff like a down sleepingbag or your last pair of dry socks makes a lot of sense.
The bag for my tent was waterproof enough for that purpose ;-) But you have a point, I'm still working on a place for stuff like a rain jacket. A handle bar basket would be handy but there's already the (waterproof ;-) ) handle bar bag.
There's a lot of sense in what you say but not all my cycling decisions are rational. I grew up in Scotland where waterproof cycle-touring bags would have been a godsend. Now I've been living and riding in sunny Italy for 40 years and I still feel uneasy about bikepacking with any non-waterproof bags, which explains why most of them are Ortlieb. And I still use a drysac in my cotton duck vintage Carradice saddle bag. Seems like you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
For me it's needed. I daily drive everyday and waterproofness saved my ass multiple time. It's easier to clean. And you can drop them on the floor without worrying if it's clean or not. Just the way to go, peace of mind on every ride.
Hi there!. Nothing to do with bags but I was watching a video from RAD cycling and she had a "Supple" sticker on the cross bar!. I wish you both a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! thinking about Laura. xx
Rain shmain. Zippers, mesh pockets, and dividers are way cooler than the boring cavernous tomb of the welded waterproof "box". Coat your seams with some 3M and keep a dry bag or three for sleep stuff, clothes, and electronics. Easy peasy pedal pleasy. Thanks for the authenticity Russ.
My cofit trunk bag isn't waterproof, but it has a nice "rain jacket" in safety green (it still looks yellow to me!) that can cover the whole bag even with panniers set out.
I like panniers that are built waterproof, but... ;P I got my current set of Eclipse panniers the year Ortlieb (the OG "actually" waterproof pannier) was founded. They are "water resistant" (i.e. the standard coated pack cloth from the time) I have toured thousands of miles in Alaska with them (with 9-10 hour cold and wet days in the saddle with the "liquid sunshine" AK is known for), used them in California, Oregon, Washington for shopping and commuting. Have never had a problem with gear getting wet that I didn't want to get wet. A pro-tip from my Mom was "use a garbage bag". A kitchen size bag (22 gallon) is 100% waterproof, can compartmentalize (a separate bag for each "set" of gear, even color coded) and light. They also come in handy in a pinch, say if you need to haul water or other stuff like berries or prickly pear fruit. As Russ says, the external pockets are REALLY nice if you have some things you don't want to dig through the pack for (spoon, cup, water filter, flat fix-it kit, candy bar, etc.) especially on longer tour where you may have over-packed...or stash in your pack quick (like a burger and fries, would not recommend putting them inside a waterproof pannier) A minus of waterproof is that they hold liquid inside, as well as keeping it out, like say if your 2l water bladder busts a seam...(yeah, it makes everything inside really wet) But with my non-waterproof pack (and a handy 22 gallon trash bag) A Nalgene bottle with a leaky lid doesn't get my jacket or spare shirt wet when I stash it outside the trash bag, and on a moderately warm day, the pannier dries quickly. I have a waterproof pannier (mostly because it will fit on modern racks) and my original Eclipse panniers (they pretty much only work with the original Blackburn road style rack without modifying the rack) that are my go to workhorses. 38 years, 10k+ miles and still going (and still keeping stuff dry when properly lined). Yeah, not as cool as Ortlieb or Arkel and they look "well loved", and I don't really care because they still work (and yeah, I get crap from friends about them) Maybe I should do an "Extra long term review" of them, lol. Cheers.
This is why I like banjo bros bags. They have a nice waterproof insert but still have external pockets. I use there waxed canvas panniers when touring.
I was sitting on my back porch BBQ'ing a Salmon in the pouring rain in Vancouver while watching this and got a chuckle out of your comment about PNW rain. 😆 While I ride in the rain a lot, I am willing to compromise a bit on waterproofness to get the right features.
I don't think I need waterproof. Most of my rides are a quick 15-20 minute commute, and if it's going to rain like cats and dogs, I'll just drive (until I get my bike poncho game sorted out)! I love the Sackville bags Rivendell sells because they look great, are simple, and if you need to keep something bone dry, you can use liners or plastic bags like Russ suggests.
I've been following your channel for a long time and it's time to make my first comment. As a long distant bike traveller I feel strongly that in 2021 there is no point to get any gear that isnt waterproof. All the bags you've showed could be made whaterproof. You dont need that much time to open and close a waterproof bag, example ortlieb accessory-pack. It's okay if you're doing a short trip to get your gear dump but if you're crossing Alaska or Patagonia or the Carretera Austral, the last thing you want to wander about at the end of the day it's if your gear will be dry or damp at camp. It's not like the non water proof bag showed are any cheap so even if I was doing smaller weekend trips I'd get something waterproof, it's defo much more versatile long term.
The longer your trip, the more waterproof becomes important. However there are instances when waterproof isn't necessary and is a hindrance. It is a quality amongst other qualities. Commuting. I carry lots of strange shape objects which won't fit in any waterproof bag. Endurance event, where you have to eat while riding and don't have time to stop and unroll a bag every time. Etc., There isn't one thing that works for all people all the time.
I use non wp panniers, extra tough, stick proof, rock proof, just about knife proof, not water proof. I use wp sacks inside. I also like the multi pocket backpack-like style of panniers over one pocket. I'm definitely not a weight weenie lol.
Coming from backpacking...putting things you don't want wet like quilts or clothing into garbage or compactor bags means you don't have to worry about the water proofness...nothing is 100% waterproof forever. Seams leak, water repellent coating degrades etc.
One concern I would have with non-waterproof bags is the waterweight once the bag material gets soaked through. Does anyone have experience with this? Is the weight difference noticable or negligible?
Most non waterproof bags use materials like Xpac which are very thin and have a waterproof coating. There is no soaking to add any significant weight. If they fail the water enters only through the seams.
I will only say: yes, bike + fishing rod = awesomeness!! On topic, i don't care about waterproof bags, i tend to use water resistant bags, but when i need to keep stuff dry, well, some simple ziplocs do the job for a 100th of a "waterproof bag" cost, i'm happy with that edit: i tend to carry my photo camera in a plastic buoyant bag or in a pelican case, but it is a nikon D3, it is water sealed on it's own)
This is great info. Please enable captions though - lots of us are aging baby boomers and would appreciate it. TH-cam has a great auto translate button so many from the non english speaking world (most of the planet) would benefit too.
I didn't use them on my 10 day overnight tour... I did alright, but I did have my stuff in plastic bags so my socks stayed dry even when I got rained on a few times in the afternoon and evening.
Ortlieb has waterproof handle bar bags with simple magnetic closing flaps. Easy to open and close and still water proof( rain not under water). In different sizes and with inside compartments. I don‘t see an upside in non waterproof bags!
I know i'm gonna end on the comment wheel, but you did not mention weight. Full waterproof fabric tends to be heavier but if you factor in the extra dry bags and the water you carry in soaked fabric ( i'd say it could be substantial with a fully geared ride), waterproof bags are simpler and lighter overall.
Here in Florida it must be waterproof and no not just with a rain cover. Rain covers may be okay for Arizona but not Florida. It rains too often and usually it's a hard rain. Also for anything I can't get any moister I will use zip lock bags or other waterproof bags inside my waterproof packs in case I have to open the main bag in the rain. I bike commute in all weather here in Florida. It's not bad weather it's just bad preparedness.
I grew up in Hawai'i where it rained every day and then moved to Portland Oregon where it rained even more. For my 28 mile commute I desperately need water proof bags. Full stop.
Waterproof rules here in Europe where it rains a lot. Pfaffing around with loose rainprotectors is just annoying and makes it hard to get in the pannier. Still don't find waterproof a problem, better safe than wet clothes. And yes you can put clothes in waterproof bags but they are expensive too.
Paying the weight tax for real cotton duck, like Caradice saddle bags is worth it in rainy climates. They really do keep your stuff dry. I never have to worry about stuff in my saddle bags getting wet.
I get about 11" of rain per year in my area and it boggles my mind how much water proof stuff is available locally. I'd rather save some some and go water resistant any day. I also really dont like the roll top feature of most water proof bags.
Great points. I was a part of the 100% waterproof all the time team, but I've come to the same conclusions as you mention here after a year. Even worse yet, I thought that bike commuting with a backpack is the stupidest idea and panniers are the only way to go until I tried commuting with the Osprey Radial...
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Move to Australia. The more common question tends to be “Is the bag fireproof?”
yeah, but is the bag also trying to kill me?
@@teddgram 😆
@@teddgram is the bag full of spiders, snakes, sharks and crocodiles?
Same in California
Is the bag brushtail possum proof ? Answer:No, those buggers will chew through anything!
I was a backpacker before a bikepacker, and the garbage disposal bag liner method has never failed me. Bonus points, is size adjustable.
Sometimes it's not complicated. I commute to work with a laptop and clothes = waterproof. The complex portion is what to put in each bag. I keep extra clothing, rain gear, tools, and "always on the bike" stuff in one bag, Computer, cloths, and food go in the other. When I get to work I remove just the one bag, leave the bike in the locked area, and head to the gym for the showers.
Here in Southern Arizona, the resistance to attack from the sun's UV rays is more important than waterproofness. My 3-1/2 year old Ortlieb Gravel Pack Pannier has stood up to thousands of hours out in the sun. The fabric is still in perfect shape. Only the male portion of all the plastic buckles have failed - due to thousands of uses or maybe UV attack on the plastic. Ortlieb did replace the broken buckles.
"For me, however, I find that the answer is a lot more complicated." I once answered a woman's question like that. Needlessly to say, she was not happy. She did not think it was complicated. She gave me back the ring. However, she kept the bike and panniers I gave her. And the panniers were waterproof! Russ, that experience taught me we make things too complicated sometimes. Blessings to the two of you, especially Laura.
There's also the "almost" waterproof option, like the Ortlieb Bike-packer/Sport-packer bags, that has those welded seams and all that, but sacrifice that last bit of waterproofness by having a flap closure instead of a roll top. It won't stay dry if submerged, but will most likely handle torrential rain well.
I use these since 1989 and like them much better than the rolltop bags. On my bicycle trips in 1986 and 1987 in England I used non waterproof bags and it was terrible, after long days in torrential rain *everything* was wet even though I had packed many things in plastic bags. On my Scotland trip in summer 1989 I had Ortlieb bags with the flap on top and although this trip had even more rain than the England trips, my stuff stayed dry. It made a big difference.
I use the cap-lid Ortlieb panniers and they are excellent regarding waterproof. The roll-top is really only relevant if you expect that you will be dunking the panniers into a lake for several minutes/hours, or floating them down a river. The cap-lid Bikepackers will keep all your gear dry in torrential rain, and more critically, you can stow some damp kit under the lid without causing it to make the contents of the inner bag all damp and manky. My clothing and sleeping bag do not get wet inside the Bikepackers at all.
The world needs more reliable meteorologists. Russ, you're the best
I used to use the 2 Wheel Gear Convertible Pannier Backpack for commuting. It is water resistant in light rain, but also comes with a rain cover for heavy downpours.
One aspect of waterproof bags that was not mentioned is that non waterproof materials can absorb water and ad a significant amount of weight during a a long wet ride. Waterproof bags will shed nearly all of the water.
If your tent is still a bit damp when you pack but you can’t wait, a bag that’s a bit more breathable could be useful
I've never had a wet shelter dry inside a bag...it needs to be aired out.
My tent gets packed up as dry as it gets (with use of Chux squeegee wipes to assist) then packed in my Ortlieb 30 litre drybag. It then gets removed to dry at lunchtime (if I remember) or just dries out in half-an-hour in the afternoon when pitched at camp. Normally this is enough to get it fully dry.
For commuting, it can be handy to be able to quickly transfer panniers from one rack to another. Sometimes it helps to see what kind of snow has fallen while I was asleep before I decide which bicycle to bring to work.
Speed of access is definitely a useful feature. Stowing and retrieving warm clothing from a handlebar or frame bag without stopping can make commutes a lot more comfortable, but I rely on the more fussy roll-top waterproof panniers on my rear rack simply for their storage volume.
The top-class waterproof panniers (Ortlieb) are extremely waterproof AND very quick & easy to transfer from one bike to another, or to remove and carry into the office. I use the cap-lid Bikepacker/Sportpacker version as the extreme waterproofing of the Rollers is not required for most uses.
As always , Very Helpful. When I was guiding, Bike, Canoe, Back Pack trips I always told my trippers " The only thing water proof is a frogs ear." Damp gear in a pack make everything in the pack damp. My son uses water proof bags and I use water resistant a liner bag with a 10 mil liner bag. The 10 mil l bags are almost indestructible and are used for asbestos disposable. A grocery bag for reference is one mil. To protect small items I am now using the Stacher silicon bags, found in the food section of many food stores. They come in many different sizes and several shapes and have as many uses as you can think of. And can be reused hundreds of time, with a simple sealing and opening system. They come in colors and clear. I have a clear one to put my phone in if rain is on the way. and I can do most of the functions while it is the Stacher bag. I use them for paper maps (old school) for picking up a meal on the road and taking it to the camp site, Left overs from a meal to be eaten down the road., a small one to carry batteries. etc They are so much better than zip lock bags. I use the ones with a flat bottom to soak grains such as Rice , Bulger or Freekeh to reduce cooking time to a few minutes.. Remember UV rays breakdown the water repellency on packs. It's a good idea to spry new repellent on every year. For my padded handlebar bag where I carry my camera, and other often needed items I have a light weight water proof cover that fits over the handle bar bag stashed in a hidden outside pocket. The advantage of a liner bag is that if I have wet items I can place them between the pannier and the plastic bag . But the reality is everyone ahs to do what works for them,. When touring I carry a dry bag on top of my rear rack with my sleeping system.
I find welded bag have huge advantage over classic construction- it's much more spacious. The folds and stitchings on the inside take so much space for top tube bags, small saddle bags, smaller front triangle bags. It really makes a difference.
Stuff in individual plastic bags placed inside my water resistant Arkels. Working great for 30+ years.
I like my Carradice canvas bike bags. Doesn't rain much where I live but I did do two weeks in April rain in the UK. Nothing got wet, and nor did I need any plastic bag liners. I highly recommend them.
Hmmm very interesting ! I never thought non-water proof bags can have advantages, but I think you are right : it allows us more options in terms of packing. And in fact, it’s exactly what I’m looking for ! You can always purchase a waterproof protection.
So thank you for sharing your point of view because it opens more possibilities to me 😉 see you on the road !
My Ortlieb Gravel Pack panniers, saddle bags, front roll and Sea to Summit dry bags served me well on a recent 800 mike bikepacking tour. Everything stayed dry during torrential rains. Never leave home without them.
Good points I never really thought about. I ride in mostly dry conditions and don't go on long tours but I went with waterproof bags because I figure that time you do get caught out in the rain you will be really glad you have them. I totally agree with the organization though. Organization is always a good thing.
Third option: elasticized waterproof bag/pannier covers. I use these on my panniers and they're marvelous. True, one side of the bag is partially exposed, but it's never been a problem -- and that includes riding in a downpour. It's a handy solution because you regain the full functionality of the bag once the rain clears up and you remove the cover.
Dork covers not only don’t work well but they introduce other significant issues as well.
I like having a mix of both, as well as a stock of dry bags on hand for trips. I also have trunk style bag that has a built-in rain cover which works awesome for unexpected showers while commuting.
clearly you never been to the Netherlands, there is only R A I N
So the question should be, is it mildew-proof?
@@Korina42Wp fabric dries quickly, plus no complex seams that tend to hold water. So mildew? Not if you don't forget your sandwich or banana in there... 😅.
Mildew is said to weaken even synthetic fabrics, btw.
Most of Europe to be honest. It could even rain in the middle of a heatwave.
@@nikveldkamp8630 Or a damp shirt. 😄
I'm usually touring with waterproof panniers and a Carradice saddlebag, which has proven to be fairly water resistant. Even long days in the rain has kept the insides pretty much dry but I realize there are limits to it. The ease of access however is unparalleled with a giant side pocket that easily holds 15 energybars. The only change I want to make eventually is to replace the buckles with magnetic fidlock closure. To open a pocket and just let go to automatically close again is brilliant.
Also, once water gets in, it doesn't get out, soaking stuff. Yes, user error, but still...
There’s also some other things to consider. How about price point? Durability? History of the company and customer service? I’ve got some Ortlieb of the bags that I’ve had for over a decade and used daily commute. Bags from a small company are nice but will they last as long as you need and will the company be around when a closure gives out? Another nice thing that may or may not be a deal breaker is waterproof bags can also be used as coolers. One can go from the market to the beach or the woods with them filled with loose ice and cold beverages.
While it's not a fix as easy as sending it in with a warranty, I will say that risk is mitigated if you have a gear repair shop in town. I've gotten a lot more months and miles out of my stuff after finding the Repair Lair
The third option with cheap bags is the water-proof liner. The ones I have with Banjo Bothers( I got what I paid for) The liners are best pulled out. I am more into water resistant and bagging up sensitive stuff. The idea of stinky clothes, food, and garbage all in a water proof non breathable dry bag is unappealing.
I once submerged my Oveja Negra Gearjammer seatpack in the tub to test it and it is indeed not water proof. On the bike though in the rain, getting sprayed by the rear tire Ive never had water come into the bag. I find I prefer a highly water resistant sewn bag to a stiff plastic feeling welded one. My personal setup is a mix of waterproof and mostly water resistant bags where I feel like they make the most sense.
Yeah. It doesn’t have to be an either/or situation.
waterproff not only when rain, but road splash, rivers etc
Like I said in the video, if you are doing something with lots of river crossings use a waterproof bag.
I don’t have any true waterproof bags but I definitely double wrap my camera gear in whatever bags they go in.
I have a Carradice Barley, which I bought only a year ago. Only tried 1 time during heavy rain. My things inside the bag are dry, but I have to wipe the bag with a dry rug and air dry
They are incredibly water resistant. I've used them on very extended, multi day wet rides and everything inside was completely dry. You do need to let them dry out slowly though.
@@alexball5907 thanks, more confident now😊
Agree with this video. It all depends on what the climate is where you live and plan to ride. I live in Iceland and still do my touring here. Weather is unpredictable and it will rain. I also have to cross rivers sometimes on tour so I absolutely need a waterproof bag and not just a waterproof cover over a pannier. But if I was living in a dry climate with steady weather, then I would probably expand the possible bags to something that is not waterproof...
Some of each! But I agree with the liner bag for my Swift bags, for things you for sure want to keep dry. I have those ortlieb gravel paniers for commuting and they've been great for all weather in the PNW.
Amen! And props for distinguishing between PNW "mist" vs. Gulf Coast waterfall.
Outdoor stores have a lot of cheap, lightweight, convenient, totally waterproof stuff sacks, but you'll probably find them in the rafting section. When bikepacking I stick my sleep system and sensitive electronics in those. When not bikepacking, I just get wet. I can be pretty wet for a day at a time, I just don't like sleeping wet.
In the greater Seattle area we don't get truly soaked that often (the exception being January 2020, when we pretty much got dumped on for a month), it's usually like walking through the produce section at the grocery store. You practically dry off as you ride through it.
For touring (day-tours and especially extended camping tours) in all weathers, waterproof qualities really DO make a great difference. Sure, you can tour without this, but cordura coated fabrics are about the WORST to use. In the '80s I loved my cotton Superdux waxed-canvas panniers. Not 100% waterproof, but the cotton swelled when wet to proof the bag to a very high level. My clothing and sleeping bag stayed dry, without having to use drybags. Nowadays the coated PVC (or similar) fabrics of Ortlieb are extremely waterproof (100% really). It is just the openings and mount screw-fastenings that need to be monitored in-use. And my Ortlieb panniers (and my wife's) are STILL in use after 20 years of extended touring over the whole time. So yes, I would recommend getting waterproof panniers, if you want to keep your gear dry.
I have one 100% waterproof seatpack that i keep for stuff i only need to set up camp. My other, more accessible bags are less waterproof but contain stuff that can get wet. Btw, they turned out to withstand a shortish 1 hour violent rainstorm pretty well.
My experience with many decades of backpacking is that waterproof bags are water repellent at best.
That in mind, use a very lightweight WATERPROOF bag to put your gear in, then put those inside your carry bag. Works and is realistic.
Choose your bags based on your access and volume desired, then add the WATERPROOF storage bags inside.
I bought some Ortleibs for commuting a few years ago and I have no regrets. They kept my stuff dry in torrential rainstorms.
Having done a few small cycle tours, using a cheap set of triple panniers, I purchased some waterproof panniers from the other major German manufacturer for my last 5 day cycle tour, other than one of the mounts breaking on day I found my previous cheap bags with multiple pockets much more usable, and whilst I will use the waterproof ones for for day rides I will get new non waterproof multi pockets ones for any subsequent cycle tours.
For one of my bikes, the rear bags are Arkel Dry-Lites. The front, some no-name water(resistant) bag for quick access. Every now and again, I have to leave the Dry-Lites open to air out the musty, funky dampness that gets trapped inside them.
Best wishes to you a Laura!
Love your channel, always have great info!
Arkel makes some pretty good bags. Here another thing to think about is snow/slush. A lot of good points in this video. There is so much gear you can mix and match to your hearts content. Thanks for the video and you both take care, Al
I tour in the summer mostly with non water proof panniers but just in case I bring plastic garbage bags to put stuff in. Keep up the good work Russ.
I use a tarp and a thin bivy over sack for camping so I usually wrap anything that needs to be kept dry (clothes mostly and sleeping bag) in those and my phone goes in an zip lock bag. If I'm not camping (hostel/hotel hopping) I just use thick plastic grocery bags and wrap everything up in those. But to be honest the water that actually gets into my standard and cheapish bags is pretty minimal and manageable even when we get a prolonged downpour.
Probably not necessary, but I am forgetful, and need the waterproof to keep me from dropping the ball, and pulling out clothing X amount of time later with mold all over it ruining it.
As someone who lives in Newfoundland where our weather is RDF (rain, drizzle and fog) 90% of the time, waterproofness is a must. I've been using the same Axiom waterproof panniers for years and they've never failed me. I also tend to put everything in dry bags too.
I almost got Axioms but pullet the trigger for Ortliebs instead; kinda think I would have liked Axiom better.
Waterproof on the outside also means waterproof on the inside. If water gets in, it can't get out. It can migrate or condense inside as well. Every asset can become a liability under the right circumstances. Dedicated waterproof stuff sacks, plus a rain cover for the outer bag, have always served me well. When traveling, it's usually my choice to stay flexible. Stay supple?
At 00:05 he spun "That's just a 90s MTB", for the "not that one" comment. In case you were wondering.
I absolutely was wondering
Hello, could you enable the CC button. Thanks
Sonny
Hello Sonny. It is enabled now.
:)
@@j1mbobable Perfect!
I think it depends on the use case to determine if you want water proof or not. I think, if your willing to use your camera in the rain, or open the bag and expose the camera to rain, than a waterproof bag is not necessary. Whereas, if you're on your, or the small daily tour (aka commuting), waterproof bags are peace of mind.
Additionally, you can organize a dry bag. You can use a cable organizer, Ort makes an insert for their bags, or you can make your own from scratch.
But yes, the big single compartment takes getting used to. I don't perceive the dry bag opening to be a huge time bandit though. It find it less fiddly than a zipper that gets caught in the overlapping fabric.
You don't need waterproof bags. Until it rains.
Water-Resistant bags + Dry Bags in them is the best combo. All the benefits, none of the drawbacks. The dry bags help with organization as well. My .02
In the UK waterproof all the way. Especially if you have a camera in the bag 📸! I use stuff sacks to organize my panniers and for easy to access stuff I have a frame bag, handlebar or stem bags. I have city bags that I got to the office (25 minutes) and stuff was damp 😔
Having said that I love a bag you can use on and off the bike. Most of which are only water resistant so I keep covers inside them for those freak downpours we get here in the south west of the UK. 😀
No matter how waterproof a bag is, if you have to put wet stuff in it (like a soaking-wet tent or tarp, or soggy clothes) the other stuff in it is going to get wet. When it is really wet I often wish for drain holes in my panniers.
You can also benefit a lot from strategic double-bagging. There is no point bagging stuff that is already wet or is reasonably meant to get wet (e.g. raingear or a tarp). On the other hand, guarding precious stuff like a down sleepingbag or your last pair of dry socks makes a lot of sense.
The bag for my tent was waterproof enough for that purpose ;-)
But you have a point, I'm still working on a place for stuff like a rain jacket. A handle bar basket would be handy but there's already the (waterproof ;-) ) handle bar bag.
There's a lot of sense in what you say but not all my cycling decisions are rational. I grew up in Scotland where waterproof cycle-touring bags would have been a godsend. Now I've been living and riding in sunny Italy for 40 years and I still feel uneasy about bikepacking with any non-waterproof bags, which explains why most of them are Ortlieb. And I still use a drysac in my cotton duck vintage Carradice saddle bag. Seems like you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
For me it's needed. I daily drive everyday and waterproofness saved my ass multiple time. It's easier to clean. And you can drop them on the floor without worrying if it's clean or not. Just the way to go, peace of mind on every ride.
Hi there!. Nothing to do with bags but I was watching a video from RAD cycling and she had a "Supple" sticker on the cross bar!. I wish you both a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! thinking about Laura. xx
How do you deal with mold and mildew from a rain soaked non waterproof bag?
Wash it and dry it.
Rain shmain. Zippers, mesh pockets, and dividers are way cooler than the boring cavernous tomb of the welded waterproof "box". Coat your seams with some 3M and keep a dry bag or three for sleep stuff, clothes, and electronics. Easy peasy pedal pleasy. Thanks for the authenticity Russ.
My cofit trunk bag isn't waterproof, but it has a nice "rain jacket" in safety green (it still looks yellow to me!) that can cover the whole bag even with panniers set out.
I like panniers that are built waterproof, but... ;P
I got my current set of Eclipse panniers the year Ortlieb (the OG "actually" waterproof pannier) was founded. They are "water resistant" (i.e. the standard coated pack cloth from the time) I have toured thousands of miles in Alaska with them (with 9-10 hour cold and wet days in the saddle with the "liquid sunshine" AK is known for), used them in California, Oregon, Washington for shopping and commuting. Have never had a problem with gear getting wet that I didn't want to get wet. A pro-tip from my Mom was "use a garbage bag". A kitchen size bag (22 gallon) is 100% waterproof, can compartmentalize (a separate bag for each "set" of gear, even color coded) and light. They also come in handy in a pinch, say if you need to haul water or other stuff like berries or prickly pear fruit.
As Russ says, the external pockets are REALLY nice if you have some things you don't want to dig through the pack for (spoon, cup, water filter, flat fix-it kit, candy bar, etc.) especially on longer tour where you may have over-packed...or stash in your pack quick (like a burger and fries, would not recommend putting them inside a waterproof pannier)
A minus of waterproof is that they hold liquid inside, as well as keeping it out, like say if your 2l water bladder busts a seam...(yeah, it makes everything inside really wet) But with my non-waterproof pack (and a handy 22 gallon trash bag) A Nalgene bottle with a leaky lid doesn't get my jacket or spare shirt wet when I stash it outside the trash bag, and on a moderately warm day, the pannier dries quickly.
I have a waterproof pannier (mostly because it will fit on modern racks) and my original Eclipse panniers (they pretty much only work with the original Blackburn road style rack without modifying the rack) that are my go to workhorses. 38 years, 10k+ miles and still going (and still keeping stuff dry when properly lined). Yeah, not as cool as Ortlieb or Arkel and they look "well loved", and I don't really care because they still work (and yeah, I get crap from friends about them)
Maybe I should do an "Extra long term review" of them, lol. Cheers.
This is why I like banjo bros bags. They have a nice waterproof insert but still have external pockets. I use there waxed canvas panniers when touring.
I was sitting on my back porch BBQ'ing a Salmon in the pouring rain in Vancouver while watching this and got a chuckle out of your comment about PNW rain. 😆 While I ride in the rain a lot, I am willing to compromise a bit on waterproofness to get the right features.
I don't think I need waterproof. Most of my rides are a quick 15-20 minute commute, and if it's going to rain like cats and dogs, I'll just drive (until I get my bike poncho game sorted out)! I love the Sackville bags Rivendell sells because they look great, are simple, and if you need to keep something bone dry, you can use liners or plastic bags like Russ suggests.
What is up with ACN?
Life. Laura has cancer and her chemo is on Wed and I have to act as a caregiver on Thurs through the weekend.
@@PathLessPedaledTV ❤️
Ortlieb bags are awesome but a little too overbuilt imho for an everyday bag. I parted with mine after a few months. The shape was just too rigid.
I've been following your channel for a long time and it's time to make my first comment. As a long distant bike traveller I feel strongly that in 2021 there is no point to get any gear that isnt waterproof. All the bags you've showed could be made whaterproof. You dont need that much time to open and close a waterproof bag, example ortlieb accessory-pack.
It's okay if you're doing a short trip to get your gear dump but if you're crossing Alaska or Patagonia or the Carretera Austral, the last thing you want to wander about at the end of the day it's if your gear will be dry or damp at camp. It's not like the non water proof bag showed are any cheap so even if I was doing smaller weekend trips I'd get something waterproof, it's defo much more versatile long term.
The longer your trip, the more waterproof becomes important. However there are instances when waterproof isn't necessary and is a hindrance. It is a quality amongst other qualities. Commuting. I carry lots of strange shape objects which won't fit in any waterproof bag. Endurance event, where you have to eat while riding and don't have time to stop and unroll a bag every time. Etc., There isn't one thing that works for all people all the time.
I use non wp panniers, extra tough, stick proof, rock proof, just about knife proof, not water proof. I use wp sacks inside. I also like the multi pocket backpack-like style of panniers over one pocket. I'm definitely not a weight weenie lol.
Thank you for confirming my own, cheapskate practice ;-) Keep a generic plastic bag handy, wrap your bike bag when it pours.
This is what I do, too. It’s not fashionable but it’s cheap and effective. Fashion? Phooey!
Yeah, my commuting bags are water-resistant-ish, but have what's basically an over-sized shower cap I can pull over it if I need to.
Coming from backpacking...putting things you don't want wet like quilts or clothing into garbage or compactor bags means you don't have to worry about the water proofness...nothing is 100% waterproof forever. Seams leak, water repellent coating degrades etc.
One concern I would have with non-waterproof bags is the waterweight once the bag material gets soaked through. Does anyone have experience with this? Is the weight difference noticable or negligible?
Most non waterproof bags use materials like Xpac which are very thin and have a waterproof coating. There is no soaking to add any significant weight. If they fail the water enters only through the seams.
@@PathLessPedaledTV thanks for the info! Great video as always
I will only say: yes, bike + fishing rod = awesomeness!!
On topic, i don't care about waterproof bags, i tend to use water resistant bags, but when i need to keep stuff dry, well, some simple ziplocs do the job for a 100th of a "waterproof bag" cost, i'm happy with that
edit: i tend to carry my photo camera in a plastic buoyant bag or in a pelican case, but it is a nikon D3, it is water sealed on it's own)
This is great info. Please enable captions though - lots of us are aging baby boomers and would appreciate it. TH-cam has a great auto translate button so many from the non english speaking world (most of the planet) would benefit too.
Just use the CC button in the lower taskbar of the video and you will see captions.
I didn't use them on my 10 day overnight tour... I did alright, but I did have my stuff in plastic bags so my socks stayed dry even when I got rained on a few times in the afternoon and evening.
Just stuff things you need dry in tyvek envelopes from the post office. The working man's drybag. Thanks for the video👍👍
This is an excellent point of view.
What about the ease of putting the bag on or taking the bag off the bike?
That kept me away from bikepacking so far ;-)
Ortlieb has waterproof handle bar bags with simple magnetic closing flaps. Easy to open and close and still water proof( rain not under water). In different sizes and with inside compartments. I don‘t see an upside in non waterproof bags!
I know i'm gonna end on the comment wheel, but you did not mention weight. Full waterproof fabric tends to be heavier but if you factor in the extra dry bags and the water you carry in soaked fabric ( i'd say it could be substantial with a fully geared ride), waterproof bags are simpler and lighter overall.
Here in Florida it must be waterproof and no not just with a rain cover. Rain covers may be okay for Arizona but not Florida. It rains too often and usually it's a hard rain. Also for anything I can't get any moister I will use zip lock bags or other waterproof bags inside my waterproof packs in case I have to open the main bag in the rain. I bike commute in all weather here in Florida. It's not bad weather it's just bad preparedness.
I grew up in Hawai'i where it rained every day and then moved to Portland Oregon where it rained even more. For my 28 mile commute I desperately need water proof bags. Full stop.
Just put your stuff in a plastic laundry bag and get cheap panniers. Dont be a dork with your cash.
Waterproof bags can be hosed down when they are covered in mud or septic road grime before taking it indoors.
This might be the best information in any of your videos -- which is a very high bar. Oh, and, uh....So Hipster.
Waterproof rules here in Europe where it rains a lot. Pfaffing around with loose rainprotectors is just annoying and makes it hard to get in the pannier. Still don't find waterproof a problem, better safe than wet clothes. And yes you can put clothes in waterproof bags but they are expensive too.
Plus those rain covers end up soaking wet and need to be put somewhere!
Seam sealer on non waterproof bags??
Sure. But there’s still a big flap.
Paying the weight tax for real cotton duck, like Caradice saddle bags is worth it in rainy climates. They really do keep your stuff dry. I never have to worry about stuff in my saddle bags getting wet.
"Cut and dry" - I see what you did there.
I live in a dry part of the world so a plastic bag liner and press seal bags work a treat.
I'm just curious how you and your wife are doing? I hope all is well. Cheers 🍻.
No I like more pockets, you can always get some small dry bags to put stuff in that you don’t want wet
Is that bag comment proof?
Apparently not :)
I get about 11" of rain per year in my area and it boggles my mind how much water proof stuff is available locally. I'd rather save some some and go water resistant any day. I also really dont like the roll top feature of most water proof bags.
I feel you on the roll-top; I bought some ortliebs and find it clumsy to get closed right.
3:43 "While you are riding you can stick your hand in here."
Russ 2021.😂😂😂
Ohh it was uploaded in 2020 Even better.
I buy waterproof because I am looking for a one bag solution. It's expensive, but so is buying multiple bags.
Totally agree with everything said here
Great points. I was a part of the 100% waterproof all the time team, but I've come to the same conclusions as you mention here after a year.
Even worse yet, I thought that bike commuting with a backpack is the stupidest idea and panniers are the only way to go until I tried commuting with the Osprey Radial...
UK... :( we need waterproof bags
Waterproof shit is over hyped. Pack your stuff in a trash compactor bag and put it in the bag. Done.
The roll top is just extra space when it's not raining. So much room for groceries!
Waterproof bags? “It’s not so cut and dried.”
Yeah, I’m pickin’ up what he’s layin’ down.
my opinion is that a saddle bag HAS to be waterproof when it comes to bike packing
for other bags, i trust a ziplock bag more. especially with zips
My sleep system , electronics, and camp clothes are kept in a waterproof bag. Everything else goes in non waterproof bags.