Fun fact, Gimli's actor John Rhys-Davies was the tallest of the entire fellowship at 6'1". Beating Viggo Mortensen, Orlando Bloom and Ian McKellen (all 5'11"), the next tallest by 2 inches.
Also, a majority of the scenes without a direct shot of Gimli's face were the stunt double for Gimli who was under 5 feet tall. The stunt double had more screen time than the official actor but didn't get credited for it
The problem I have with the MCU is that after the avengers movie, there’s NO reason for indvidual hero movies anymore. It makes no sense that a villain like mysterio pops up and Spider-Man just has to deal with him on his own. I’m always just wondering during the solo movies why the fuck the avengers wouldn’t go help whoever it is. They always use some lame excuse like “they’re off dealing with other shit”. The threats no longer feel manageable by one character because they have to keep one upping the last movie.
The Mysterio one is explained tho, and the Avengers don't come together to solve every problem. They aren't going to all go after every random terrorist or villain, they are specifically for world threatening shit. All the single hero movies (many of which also include other heros anyway) have reasons for the other Avengers not being there. They are always fighting someone else (in their own movies) don't have time/can't call the other, or there are some other circumstances. It's never just "no avengers because", there's always a legitimate reason. They aren't lame excuses for them not being there, it's a universe, the entire point is there's other shit going on. Tldr; It's a cinematic universe, characters will be doing their own shit, and you don't need all the Avengers every time there's a bad guy.
This argument could be applied to every solo character comic being published right now. Why have a Cap, Ironman or Black Widow book when they're in the Avengers? Why have a Wolverine book when he's in the X-Men?
@@zachantes1161 no, I get what you’re saying and I agree that’s the point. That’s what I’m criticizing. It’s a lame ass point that “other shit is going on and this isn’t a world ending threat”. What mysterio was doing was at the end depicted as a world ending threat, even if by illusion and still no avengers. Outside of that, why would the avengers just let someone deal with shit on their own when they could much more easily and efficiently deal with it together? It’s really not even a marvel problem more as it’s a problem with super hero team movies in general.
@@SouthboundpachydermMysterio was revealed to be the bad guy at the end of the film. There is less than a day between Peter finding out Mysterio is the villain and the final fight, and the entire time he didn't know who he could trust because Mysterio could masquerade as anybody. There wasn't enough time to get the Avengers to London for the fight before it was too late, so Spiderman had to step up and deal with it. Besides Mysterio the Avengers tend to leave smaller things to the other departments (remember, they aren't an actual crime fighting force, they are only called when absolutely required) like law enforcement. If they convened for every single little threat then that's all they would ever do, they would just be glorified cops. Most of the time they even get involved in things on their own is by happenstance or because it's something directly affecting them like Ironman (with his villains being a business partner, man who wants revenge for his father, and a terrorist who comes after him specifically) and Captain America (with Hydra and Bucky) The only person who ever goes after low level threats regularly is Spiderman, because that's his entire personality. He's the friendly neighborhood spiderman, and it's also why he's the only one to notice how serious a threat someone like the Vulture is while Shield (and through them the Avengers) were going to let the FBI handle it as a regular gun runner situation. The point is that it's really easily explained why the Avengers don't come to handle every threat, you just want to complain about it being a super hero team franchise (despite only four of the movies actually having the entire team).
That works if it's the guardians fighting a villain on a distant planet, but it's hard to accept these huge problems are happening on earth and no one came to help. I mean it's not just the avengers there are abengers adjacent groups, I'm supposed to believe that there is a potential world ending event and the super powerful kingdom of wakanda doesn't step in, with or without the presence of their king.
It still pains my heart that we didn't get to see an inspired take on the Hobbit from Del Toro. I don't know why it didn't work out but I feel like it would have been really special.
Season 1 is like perfect television to me. Season 2 was incredibly fun and exciting, the Punisher stuff was top tier Daredevil. And I loved Matt's chemistry with Elektra. Season 3 was god-tier when Kingpin was on screen, but was eh otherwise.
MCU Spiderman is the Avengers' pet pretty much and he doesn't feel as relatable. Also both the movies don't really have interesting themes or memorable scenes.
I’d disagree on the scenes part Like in homecoming when Peter is stuck in that empty warehouse thing for the night and chats with the suits’ AI or the scene with Donald Glover too is pretty cute and when the identity of the Vulture is revealed on prom night or when Spider-Man (not Peter lol) lifts all that rubble is dope as fuck In Far From Home the bar scene with Beck or the night stroll with MJ is very nice, Mysterio kicking Spider-Man’s ass with all the double switcheroo is cool and then theres that scene with Happy on the plane that has some of those f e e l s (though i find all that high tech tonystark shit annoying) And then the final battle with Mysterio is awesome too, especially like the end you know Also most jokes landed for me and both final scenes are a bop and hilarious But yeah I too really hate Spider-Man being kindof like an Avenger underling? They tried to sorta address this in Homecoming but FFH again has Peter running errands for Fury. And then in No Way Home they pair him with Dr Strange who is basically Tony Stark but Pepsi. So uhhhhhh why cant Spider-Man be his own thing gaddammit
@@lorifoldvary836 Homecoming has nice Peter scenes but the one cool Spiderman scene (him lifting the rubble) is ripped straight from the comic so I don't really count it. I guess he has the boat scene but that was trailer bait lets be honest In FFH they leaned WAY too much on him being in Tony's shadow without actually solving it. The Happy scene in the plane is nice on the surface but its just another moment of Iron Man stealing his thunder. Mysterio is awesome tho, loved how he was implemented. Tho I wished Peter losing his spider sense then conveniently getting it back was better explained. I'm worried for NWH cause now he has to share screentime not just with Strange, but with the 2 most beloved Spidey movie villains, reprised no less AND apparently also with the other 2 Spideys. Ffs just let Holland's Spiderman do his thing.
@@nahuelkid yeah I agree Spider-Man 3 was a mess with its 3 villains though a fun one I’m not like a big comic book reader so I give credit to the movies even if it’s not strictly original stuff Besides it must be pretty fucking hard to pick what and how to adapt, there are so many comics xd
I like Tom Holland as spiderman and I agree with Vaush that the character writing has fucked Spiderman real bad. His simping for iron man is pathetic and the story writing to shoehorn him into the MCU has completely robbed spiderman of his individuality. Mark from invincible is basically the new spiderman now
If you’ve read the Invincible comics you would know this isn’t at all true. Mark and Peter are similar at first but they are completely different characters in the long run.
He's always complaining about modern jump-cut fight choreography and how all Marvel properties are lit and colored the same. This is the one good exception to the rule. One season is all you need, though.
Sam Raimi was also a master of using practical effects, especially in the Holy Trilogy. Doc Ocks arms are all puppets, there aren't many shots where they're CGI. And yeah, Tobey's Spider-Man has the best writing
I agree with that and I wish that they would never had the symbiote in Spider-Man 3 . what are your thoughts on The amazing Spider-Man movies . I personally think it's some of the best yet .
@@john-oh9cr I enjoy Spider-Man 3 a lot, but agree the movie would have been much better if Sam was given complete creative control, which would have meant no symbiote, as much as I enjoy it. I think the TASM movies have genuine issues, but I think they're a lot better than people give them credit for. I wouldn't say they're better than the OG trilogy, but there's a lot to love about them.
@Erik Kemeey how am I a MCU hater . I say that because the amazing Spider-Man movies were more about Gwen Stacy and her death , and the impact on Peter . throughout the course of the whole MCU adventure for Spider-Man , he truly is not the Spider-Man that I know untill the end of nwh . where he chooses to sacrifice his relationships with Ned and MJ for the greater good . Spider-Man is not the wall crawling and web slinging . Spider-Man is about sacrifice . webbs version of Spider-Man in the amazing Spider-Man movies are my favorite , does not mean I am a MCU hater . I think the journey of Peter Parker to become the Spider-Man that we know through the course of three movies have been something that I've actually rather enjoyed .
@@PowercellZeke that's where we are different I would actually say they are better than the original trilogy only because part 2 is a continuation of part 1 . and the death of Gwen Stacy is something that is straight out the comics . personally I think if they would have just focused on the green goblin it would have been better . but those are just my thoughts .
@@john-oh9cr As much as 3 is overcrowded, I think they made a fantastic choice turning Peter into the real villain of that movie through the symbiote subplot. Not because it makes him evil, but because he lets his pride get away from him.
Imo every Spider-Man adaptation has it's strengths and weaknesses, and each is missing something fundamental to the character. The Raimi films have classic villains and the classic status quo of Spider-Man. He works at the Bugle, he's best friends with Harry Osborne, JJJ hates him, he's poor etc. These films are undoubtedly the strongest representation of the working class background of the character. These films handle the responsibility and guilt complex of the character the best, even if it does lean too far into melodrama. The Raimi films fail for me because the co-leads, Peter and MJ, are just thoroughly unlikeable and uncharismatic as people. Peter is supposed to be timid before the spider bite, but Tobey's Peter never really grows past that. Comic book adult Peter Parker has many chad-like qualities that are missing from this version. MJ is also incredibly toxic in this version. This Peter Parker also rarely seems to actually enjoy having powers or being Spider-Man. The Amazing Spider-Man rectifies this by having two very charismatic leads with great chemistry. I know people think Andrew is too charismatic, but I think that's just a meme that people have latched onto that's not true to the films. People think that because he skateboards and dresses like a hipster that he's too cool to be Peter, whilst ignoring his obvious social anxiety, isolation, unresolved childhood trauma and speech impediment. I fully believe that his character would be a social outcast, but people can't look past the fact that he's hot. By the way, this is a stupid argument as comic book Peter is hot as fuck. Andrew's Peter is also the only one with the bitter chip on his shoulder that i feel is integral to the character. Peter has been shat on his entire life, and his sardonic humour is just to mask his anger and alienation. Peter can be a real angsty loner and these films try to capture that. Rebellion is also a huge part of the character that's missing from other versions. I also think these films highlight Peter's intelligence more than the others. These films fail however through unnecessary modernisation, trying to avoid the tropes already done by the Raimi films, inconsistent tone, overcomplicating the backstory, and just general poor storytelling. Tom's Spider-Man nails the light hearted youthfulness of the character. His films are generally fun which is not something you can reliably say for the others, and has the benefit of being in a shared universe which i feel is integral to the character. In his first issue Peter meets the Fantastic Four, he's always been a crossover character. In the Marvel comics universe, people treat Spider-Man like a joke because they don't see how he can measure up against Captain America or Iron Man or the Fantastic Four. He's the ultimate underdog because people view him as just a local neighbourhood idiot in spandex, or a creepy bug man, or a menace. In a world where he is the only superhero I don't think anyone would ever see him this way, he would be viewed as a god amongst men. How could he possibly be the underdog? I think where these films fail is being forced to make unnecessary changes to distance themselves from the other films, such as Ned and MJ, being forced to stick to the "Marvel formula" instead of having their own identity, the complete disregard for the secret identity and the abandonment of the class conscious themes integral to the character. To be clear, I really like Zendaya as MJ, her nerdy character reminds me of ultimate MJ. I just think Marvel called her Michelle Jones instead of Mary Jane because they were cowards afraid of the backlash of having a black Mary Jane. I find Ned enjoyable but also completely superfluous, and it's weird that Betty looks and acts exactly like Gwen but isn't Gwen for reasons? I find Tom's Peter ultimately too submissive and eager to please. He gets constantly chewed out by Tony and Fury and presumably Dr Strange in the next one, and I feel like if those characters spoke to comic book Peter like that he would snap and tell them to fuck off. Instead, Tom makes a kawaii face and says "gee I'm so sorry mistah, I'll try and do better" like a good little boy. Comic book Peter would also have a big problem with Tony for being a capitalist oligarch. I think it's a big missed opportunity to not have this Peter question his role in Civil War, and whether he was on the right side, as I feel he was quite clearly groomed and gaslighted into supporting Tony despite Cap aligning much closer to his own personal moral philosophy. Homecoming had the bare minimum of class conscious storytelling and they seem to have abandoned that for later installments. Make Parasite starring Spider-Man you cowards. Anyway, the best Spider-Man adaptations are Into the Spider-Verse, Insomniac and Spectacular Spider-Man, as I feel like these have all the best elements of the three live action versions, plus the missing elements i just described. Vaush bad. Also all of these adaptations are missing the fact that comic book Peter Parker FUCKS.
There's a term for this. Sayre's Law: "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake". It's why I can calmly talk politics with my friends who I disagree with for hours, but then we get legitimately heated when discussing whether a hot dog is a sandwich.
Spiderman 3 is NOT GOOD, chat is literally just delusional lol The best scenes in the movie are the terrible attempts at establishing a tone and falling flat so they're funny, or the Sandman scene where he becomes Sandman, which is unironically pretty damn great isolated from everything else in the movie.
Yeah, it's not good but i'd rather watch spider-man 3 than any Amazing Spider-man movie. Spider-man 3 at least has the first two films to support the character growth and it is shot very well.
the sandman scene was so touching and I was mesmerized by it when rewatching spider-man 3 a few months ago. The rest of the time watching was spent either cringing or being really bored. A few other times were spent laughing at things that I'm not sure were jokes.
Spider-Man 3 has some great ideas that don’t get executed well. Although I will say, another aspect besides Sandman’s origins that was done well is Peter in his ahole phase. It’s supposed to be cringeworthy when he’s thrusting his hips, that’s the whole point lmao.
Shared universes become a bad thing when the characters are being molded to fit them, instead of the shared universe molding itself for that character to fit. MCU Spider-Man is the perfect example, he's made specifically to work as an Avengers film character, not as an individual in his own series.
That's everyone though. Iron Man himself got the shaft very early. Everything after Iron Man 3 exists only by completely disregarding Iron Man 3. Ultron? Bullshit magic retcon. Civil War? Everyone is out of character just to make it like the comics. And so on.
@@FelisImpurrator How are they out of character? Last time we saw Tony he created a bot that nearly destroyed the planet cause he was able to do so without issue of having to answer to anyone, and last time we saw Captain America he was disillusioned with the idea that government should be trusted due to how many things are going behind the scenes that they don't know about, their stances makes complete sense given their previous film before that
@Aditya Chavarkar It was still in character, he decided he wasn't just a suit, he was someone who tried to fight for the betterment of mankind, and what did he believe would make mankind better? For everyone to be have something that could protect them when it was needed, an immidiate a response, a 1 second army, or Ultron, it made sense, while in hindsight it was a bad idea, thats like saying "Oh you can't try to make the world more safe/better, cause maybe it'll fail, or make it worse" Tony was completely in character to have done what he did, and seeing as he later went on to make Vision, clearly it's not like he's bad at it, it's just that he's not perfect at it
TLDR, he made a mistake that he would make in character, which led him to be part of the accords faction, which would be in character, as he felt he fucked up, and needed to make sure, neither he nor anyone else would be able to make that mistake again, tldr, the only way you can claim he's out of character, is you think his character is either perfect, and wouldn't do a mistake ever, or if you thought he wouldn't feel bad for the mistakes he's one, which given how he was introduced in his first film, being any, or both of those things would be 110& out of character for him, I get not liking the MCU, but its people like the guy I responded to that seem to just hate everything about it, and never give it the credit it's due, everyone is civil war is in character, unless you expect Steve to just go back on what he did last film and just decide "Nah, my friend can go fuck himself", and Black Panther to just go "Yeah, my fathers killer can do whatever, who cares, I'm not gonna do anything about it", and War Machine who's a government agent to go "Fuck the government", and Falcon, and Winter Soldier who went through all of winter soldier to go "Fuck off Cap, we can 100% trust the government" etc, and etc
Literally all of Marvel's media outside of movies, with the exception Spider-man PS4 and Spider-verse, is so samey. They ALL try to emulate the MCU. For example, Ultimate Alliance 3 was PACKED full of MCU references to the point of actual cringe. Same with Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. I like the MCU but I think it helped stagnate media outside of movies.
That's because people think it won't be the same property if the tones aren't the same. I lost count at how many people argued the Netflix shows aren't canon because they're tonally distinct from the movies.
Spiderverse is the best Spider Man Movie of all time, and outside of The Incredibles it's also the best superhero movie of all time I feel like people forget this when they compare the MCU and Sam Raimi spider man movies
@@andrewhaxton1076 I find a lot of stuff about multiple universes in superhero media can feel extremely cluttered. Spiderverse managed to avoid that feeling entirely despite pulling 6 different web-spinners and showcasing a wide variety of villains.
Spider-Verse is an obscenely high bar to clear. It's like, once in a generation great. It's a 10/10, and comparing the MCU's maybe 7.5-8 average is a little unfair to movies that were trying mainly to be mainstream entertainment, not literally pushing the limits of technical and artistic excellence.
The best Spider-Man adaptations are the 90s cartoon, Spectacular Spider-Man, and Insomniac’s Spider-Man Edit: I’m not including Spider-Verse because I’m specifically talking about Peter Parker. Spider-Verse IS the best Spider-Man movie but Peter B Parker isn’t super accurate but it makes sense more than MCU Spider-Man
@@lordbison1771 But Spider-Man has his own gadgets which is why it’s fine. People forget that Peter is an absolute genius and makes technology on a shoestring budget. Insomniac’s Spider-Man having technology is still accurate to the character
@@arachnomancyy I understand but I feel he’s at his best when all he’s got is his web shooters and his intelligence instead of having random drones and other Batman gadgets. It works for gameplay stuff but not so much as a character thing if that makes sense
In some aspects, yes, in others no. They used one of the biggest events in Spider-Man with a different character and didn’t kill that character like in the comics. That’s a pretty huge difference in terms of development for the character.
Tobey's Peter Parker definitely captured the struggling misfit vibes from the original. Then Garfield's was a sexy bad boy for some reason which kind of ruined it,. and Holland's is cute and charming which could work if he wasn't also sponsored by a billionaire.
As someone who recently went through those issues. They are super not. Raimi's Spidey never really conveyed who early Peter was. Raimi's Peter is a good kid and Kinda awkward. Early Marvel Comics Peter is an ASSHOLE INCEL. The obtaining of powers didn't corrupt 1962 peter, it exasperated a self aggrandizing insufferable douchebag that was already there. Hell, Uncle Ben doesn't matter until the King Pin story line roughly 5 years later. You can like Raimi's Spider-man, but don't lie about what he's like. He is super not the comics Spidey, and especially not the era of Spidey Comics he's supposed to be conveying
While Vaush is correct about the dilution of the MCU, I will say it’s not exclusive to the MCU. Films go and come in trends, especially corporate mainstream ones. Think about all the slasher films in the wake of Halloween, how 90’s blockbusters all have similar language in terms of cinematography, exploitation films in the 70’s, etc. Honestly, this was worse in Hollywood’s history despite the complaints of modern blockbusters and mainstream films being diluted from IP focus corporate backing, the film code from the 30’s to the 60’s stifled creativity way worse than modern filmmaking. Honestly, there is more of a range of filmmaking done today, than any point in history. Like gaming and music, modern tech and the internet is allowing indie filmmakers to flourish. You just have to look for it.
This is 100% a nitpick but in the MCU movie it feels like they made Peter Parker performatively poor, I mean they gave him a computer with a crt monitor and it felt ridiculous. At this point if you still have a functioning computer that old it's a sign of wealth not poverty, that shit breaks all the time and is too slow to be usable, so the only people who maintain them are hobbiests. He also finds a dvd player on the street and is excited that it works, realistically Peter Parker would probably have a cheap laptop and pirate movies, the 20 year old computer and the dvd player feel out of touch with what being poor is actually like
I unironically believe that too. The parts that were good were *really* good. The parts that were bad, well, to me there were just as many of them as in the others. Yes, it had a lot of shit crammed in, but if you paid attention instead of scrolling twitter with one hand, and scrolling reddit with other, it wasn't hard to follow. Nobody dies of needing to focus a tiny bit more.
It’s not underrated. I’d say it was sabotaged by producers who wanted venom in the movie. Sure Raimi could have handled it better but the reason why it’s a bad movie is studio interference
I recently watched the Toby spidermans 1 & 2 and it made me kinda hate mcu spiderman. The mcu heroes just don't really have real problems, while those mundane problems and interpersonal relationships juxtaposed with a fantastical superhero world have always been what made spiderman so appealing. I know people don't like origin stories but the lack of uncle Ben kinda fucks over the core of Peter Parker's character
6:25 - "You lose things when everything gets rolled in to the same universe" This man understands. This is one of the reasons why I'm not invested in mainstream comics as they are. It's also ONE of the reasons I dislike Disney.
The MCU is disappointing, but oddly enough, in some ways entertaining. I like that they’re demonstrating his strength more, if that means anything. Still no Uncle Ben though.
Having him be older helps. It’s really hard for me to care about his high school drama when high school drama is literally the most meaningless thing in all of existence.
One thing about the original Spiderman movies I really love and the MCU is really missing. Is seeing the public reacting to spiderman Like one of the most memorable scenes to me in that entire trilogy is when Spiderman has been unmasked on the subway. But all the people there promises to not to tell anyone. You just don't get anything like that in the MCU.
I remember a friend telling me "Look at this Flash scene, looks great, etc..." After seing it the only thing I could think was: "How do I tell him, How do I tell him?!"
no everything from the vultures origin to his motviation stems more from iron-man and economic struggles that have nothing to do with peter. the only thing that connects them at all is tony stark and of course liz. but him being liz's dad is not very important to the story. spider-man in homecoming is literally putting thousands of poeple's lives at risk to protect the property of a billionaire from a working class man. it's all over the place and not even comparable to the raimi trilogy.
Vulture was a good villain, up until it came to how they dealt with his backstory. Nay, all of Spider-Man’s conflicts in the MCU have had nothing to do with his struggles as Spider-Man, but with either Tony Stark or the Wider Marvel Universe. No villains have a particular grudge against him, nor do they particularly want to hurt him or his loved ones. In fact, they tend to try not to hurt his loved ones, for different reasons of course. Spider-Man just serves as an obstacle rather than a challenge.
@@hazelgascoigne4712 "spider-man in homecoming is literally putting thousands of poeple's lives at risk to protect the property of a billionaire from a working class man." This is madness. Vulture ceased be a working class when he became a criminal. You think Spidey should've let Vulture steal a plane full of Stark-tech and sell it all on the black market, thus arming dozens of other criminals with high-tech weaponry?
Did you forget that the tech Vulture sold to criminals managed to completely obliterate the bank they were robbing as well as the corner store Peter goes to every day? The owner almost died in that blast. Peter was trying to stop the use of highly dangerous alien tech from being used out on the streets by idiots/lunatics.
@@ClintsGrievances I'm not saying he's not doing anything wrong but, yes in this exact situation, crash landing the plane in Manhattan could've and should've been, if not for plot Armor, way worse than letting him get away.
I thought spiderverse established that anyone could wear the mantle? Also Tom’s spider man does encounter villains that are intertwined into his personal life. Vulture was his crush’s dad ffs. Also, Tobey and Tom are the best. Ps. Vaush bad for his Spider-Man takes /s
The problem with using Vulture as an example, is that vulture doesnt do or became vulture, or for that matter personally target the MC because of anything relating to specifically Peter/ Spiderman, but because of Tony Stark. The Vulture in the MCU is more a less a IronMan villain that has been skinned as a spiderman villain. Other that the RANDOM ass fact that the vulture is his barely known or interacted with prom date's dad. There is no strong connection between them, like that of his other badguys like we see in the other spiderman movies, or the ps4 games.
No. Both Vulture and Mysterio exist because of Iron Man. Had nothing to do with Spiderman in the MCU. In all three movies, Spider-Man always has a mentor or another character from the MCU. No MCU Spiderman movie has yet to stand on their own two feet.
@@darryljack6612 Dude. That's how most villains come into existence in the comics. Going way back. There's a whole bunch that were literally relevant solely because of Kingpin or Green Goblin fucking around. Spider-Man has not generally been the type to create all his supervillains. it wasn't even that often that they had personal grudges against just him, Goblin/Kraven/Venom etc notwithstanding. What even is that argument?
@@FelisImpurrator ??? Do you not read? I didnt say that Peter creates all of his villains, i said that Peter has a strong Relation to the majority of his villains. Goblin has strong relation to Spiderman because of Peter and because Peter's relationship with Harry. Venom has a Strong Relation to Peter and SpiderMan alike, because of the actions done to and with both the symbiote and Brock in his dual life. You see this relation especially in the recent venom run. Kraven wanted a hunt, and Spiderman's existence invited said hunt, which made Kraven not just one Spiderman's dangerous foes, but one of Peter's and put those he cared about as risk and brought the danger to him. Do you get the picture? These threats and Peter share a strong or semi strong relation, because of the duality and life of either peter or Spiderman. No such relation is present for peter in the MCU, because both of his threats dont actually care about Parker or Spiderman. There is no real weight between or true connection of the hero or villain, in these movies. That would exist if Peter was on his own.
It’s therapeutic to hear someone talk about the MCU with anything but undying praise. I like the MCU movies but the unfettered loyalty many people have to them is gross.
If they can't spot a difference in quality between Iron Man and Captain America, I don't trust their opinion on the rest. There are about 5 good MCU films, the rest range from ok to bad.
I honestly prefer MCU and Garfield interpretations of Peter Parker/ Spider-Man. I feel like the old movies went to hard on Peter/Spidey being this perfect angel that could do know wrong, when in the comics he was someone with anger issues as well as always being arrogant prick who slowly matured throughout the early issues. Not only that, Peter believe or not had hobbies outside of being a science nerd which the old movies ignored. They’re good movies, but were pretty 1dimensional when portraying the main character.
@@ABCodeX Or in other words, didn't do it himself, he was being manipulated, thats like blaming Jessica Jones for anything she did while being hypnotized under the "Well she was the one who did, and she could have fought back harder, so she's technically at fault" argument
This, I hate that the movies dropped him from this sort of genuine everyman kinda kid that sometimes acts rash, he gets into petty fights with friends, hell Peter in the comics really wasn't that socially awkward outside the first few issues. He asked for girls on dates, made plans to go out with friends, and sure they don't work out but he still tried to live a normal life. Raimi movie Peter doesn't seem to do anything unless he's pushed hard whenever he doesn't have the suit on post Uncle Ben getting served like a bowl of rice. He can barely talk to even his close very few friends, is a complete pushover even if he's clearly wronged and...well outside of being smart his personality is kinda flat. He's what the bullies in the comics THOUGHT Peter was because of his Spider-Man duties rather than what he actually was. Peter and Spider-Man aren't like Bruce Wayne and Batman, they shouldn't have such drastically different personalities.
@@ABCodeX actually those negative emotions weren’t created in Peter by the parasite, just were bought to the forefront. Even Peter acknowledges them with in his final talk with Sandman. If you have time and movie themes analysis types videos interest you, I recommend watching Like Stories of Old video “The unexplored depths of Spierman 3: Facing the Dragon of Gradiosity”. Even as a stand-alone video it’s really good because it uses the movie to explore philosophical themes.
Once again Vaush with the bad Marvel takes. I do agree that the relationship with Tony isn't what I would have wanted but I think both movies do a fairly good job at making it clear that the point is that he's not Iron man jr but his own hero and that it's wrong for him to try so hard to be like Tony. Sure, both the villains he's had so far are villains becuase of Tony Stark but I don't really see how that's a problem. If you actually look at the other spider-man villains we've had in the Rami films not many of them actually become villains because of Peter, they become villains independent of that but just so happen to have some personal connection with Peter. Vulture might be a villain as a result of being screwed over by Stark but he still ultimately has a connection with Peter due to him being Liz's father, that's what makes that whole sequence in the car so great, it's actually very similar to the dinner scene in the first Rami film were Norman slowly realizes that Peter is Spider-man and that creates great tension so just to write him off as "just being an iron man villain" is silly, especially since Toomes is very much used narratively as a way of pushing Peter to focus on being a friendly neighborhood superhero rather then be Iron man 2.0. Now what about Mysterio? Again he becomes a villain because of Stark but he and Peter still form a connection so when the revelation that he's the villain occurs, it's kinda big deal. Even then, I don't need every Spider-man villain to have some connection to Peter's personal life or be motivated by a bad thing Peter did, even in the comics that's not always the case. I'm not saying the MCU has done Spider-man perfectly, I do think they're trying way to hard to differentiate themselves from the other movies but I still think they do a good job at getting the core elements of the character right, Peter still has to struggle balancing his personal and superhero life and he's still always doubting himself and insecure. Could it be better? yes, but I don't think it's a betrayal of the character personally. Anyways, Andrew Garfield is the best Peter Parker/Spider-man STAY MAD lol
@@MatPost I actually enjoy ASM2 a lot, it's VERY MESSY but it still covers a lot of the beats I love about Spider-man. But yes, Garfield is an incredible actor and I'd take him over Tom and Tobey any day
True but, they ruined it. The point was that superheroes show up in team up movies and then go back to their own universes instead of showing up in someone else's movie every time a movie drops
Marvel fan in the early 80's, saving every nickel I could rub together to buy Chris Claremont's X-Men or a New Mutants issue. Then "Crisis on the Infinite Earths" happened, and I was all about DC. Vaush's complaint about an interconnected universe sounds absurd. Well no shit it's marketing, it's also catering to what the fans want.
@@prajwaljayaraj5887 I don't think they ruined it, but your point is taken, they do really need to back up and give the solo movies a little more stand alone strength, particularly the Spider-Man films, who became Iron Lad with all of the cool toys, instead of the classic everyman loser from the comics, embodied perfectly by Rami and McGuire's take.
Vaush is 90% correct about MCU Spider-Man. Among the 10% he's wrong about is his blaming the fact that Spidey co-exists with other heroes in the same universe. One of the hallmarks of Spider-Man used to be his independence form other heroes and the fact that, like the recent movies themselves mention, he's a "friendly _neighbourhood_ Spider-Man". You don't have to make up some excuses why some random superhero (or at least, you'd have to a lot less) when Spider-Man _doesn't_ have Tony Stark on speed dial. I loved the way the comics handled Spider-Man's and Iron Man's relationship in the comics during the Civil War/Initiative storyline: Iron Man convinces Spidey to fight on his side and makes him his red and gold Iron Spider suit, then Spider-Man realises Iron Man's an asshole and they fight, then it turns out Iron Man had booby-trapped the Iron Spider suit because he's an asshole, then it turns out Spider-Man had known Iron Man would booby-trap the suit and overrode the booby trap. That to me makes much more sense than Peter Parker kissing Tony Stark's ass.
@@prdeadpool1380 Homecoming isn’t a Spider-Man movie. It’s a movie that pretends to be Spider-Man without understanding the core themes, conflicts, and appeal of his character.
He went from being SpiderMan to Iron Boy Jr, as others have already noted. He doesn't feel like his own character who makes his own personal mistakes, and choices, and drama. But now its just the weight of the MCU itself being tossed on to him, three out of four his suits that he wears are made with Stark Tech, his Bad guys have shit against Tony, even the standard problems that comes with being Peter/Spiderman, like his relationships are not only just passed by with out a second thought. But are also circumvented with the help of Shield and people close to Stark, it all feels bloated and formulaic. I think the big thing that people are missing is that, Marvel Comics has a large universe, yes. But there were still subsections of the comic universe of marvel that didnt always needed to meld with or be apart of others subsections 24/7. Characters and Groups like SpiderMan and spiderpeople, Mutants, Inhumans, etc. Were all of some of those groups. They felt like they existed in their own worlds unless there was a big crossover event. Now it feels like Disney Marvel is trying to make a rollercoaster ride that worked for one thing. Work for every single marvel property that they can obtain.
@@junjiito6298 Yeah? Ok, of the 2 movies so far, can you name like 3 things of actual importance that he was involved in, that didnt have relation to other factors of the mcu throughout the main story?
@@darryljack6612 So... your complaint has nothing truly relevant to Spider-Man alone, and amounts to "I don't like the MCU's metanarrative"... Everything past like, Doctor Strange 1 has been filled with "oops, this is actually just setup for/caused by other MCU meta stuff". Well, maybe Guardians 2 wasn't, but it's Guardians. They're in space. The comics actually have been doing exactly this for years, too. I mean... Megacrossover events have dominated comic runs for so long that the MCU is arguably following them, not the other way around. The industry decided it was the thing to do. And while I don't like that, because goddamn that's too much reading to make sense of anyone's arc, it's not unique to Spider-Man. Peter absolutely does have his own life and choices, but they're appropriately focused on his personal relationships. The antagonists all being somehow tied to Iron Man or the wider MCU context isn't much different at all from older continuities where, say, Oscorp was responsible for half a dozen villains. Who here is complaining about everyone and their mother being tied to the Osborns back in the day? No one. If you don't like Iron Man being made into the "main character" of the MCU, fine, but pretending this is about Peter Parker specifically ain't getting very far. If you think of the MCU as a long running TV show though, it makes sense that Tony got to be the protagonist.
@@FelisImpurrator Actually no, 1, I have no inherent problem with the MCU's "metanarrative", the problem is that it doesnt work for the character of spider man or peter parker. It works for others but not for everyone. Its why the majority Netflix shows worked extremely well. Because it didnt try to fit them into such a different mold and environment, it kept the defenders in their own world. The same way how in the comics majority of the time, Spiderpeople, Mutants, the Avengers, and inhumans are in their own worlds. 2, Yea i know i literally, in my comment addressed the concept of crossovers happening in the comics. Did you not see it? The problem with what the MCU does, in regards to these mega crossovers as opposed to the comics mega crossovers, as i addressed. Is that they seek to reverse engineer the characters involved into something else from what they are. Thats what makes the crossovers unique in the comics, characters that are all in the same worlds, but often occupy their own space long enough or have done enough on their own to make it feel special. But peter here hasnt done anything on his own without relation to the greater mcu. Do you get what i am saying? 3,"Peter absolutely does have his own life and choices, but they're appropriately focused on his personal relationships. The antagonists all being somehow tied to Iron Man or the wider MCU context isn't much different at all from older continuities where, say, Oscorp was responsible for half a dozen villains. Who here is complaining about everyone and their mother being tied to the Osborns back in the day? No one." Yeahhh!? Dude you literally just proved my point. OSCORP is an entity that exist within special and strong relationship to Peter and Spiderman, having Villains come from oscorp makes sense. Because of Peter/ Spiderman's own unique relationship to Norman/ the green goblin. This is something that is apart of peter's own specific world. Oscorp would make villains to stop spiderman, so if peter was never spiderman, some of these villains might not have been made. Thus showing relation to Peter and his own actions. The problem with comparing that to Tony, is that regardless of perter, vulture is still a villain, mysterio is still a villain. Do you get the picture? Peter's villains dont matter to either side of peter parker or spiderman, they matter to Tony. And peter just got them dumped on to him. That is a terrible and flawed comparison to make 4, "If you don't like Iron Man being made into the "main character" of the MCU, fine, but pretending this is about Peter Parker specifically ain't getting very far. If you think of the MCU as a long running TV show though, it makes sense that Tony got to be the protagonist." A... I have no problem with Tony being the face of the MCU, the problem comes from making characters from certain comics like peter, lose agency and weight because of it. B, Except thats not what the MCU is, nor should it be thought of that way, because then it would just prove the point of it being stale, and repetitive.
Surprisingly Vaush (and I'm not being an MCU apologist here) but the reason why we have a Spider-Man so beholden to Tony Stark/Iron Man is because when Sony allowed Marvel Studios to use Spider-Man in Civil War, it was agreed that an MCU character should show up in this new Spider-Man 1st movie (hence Iron Man and now Doctor Strange). This wasn't Marvel Studios idea but Sony, which from their point of view you can understand why they insisted on it as part of deal given the popularity of the MCU.
They should've made Steve Rodgers his mentor. There's basically no way Peter would've chosen Iron Man's side in Civil War and I feel the makers knew that which is why they had to invent the whole "I'll make you a new suit" plotline as a way to force him to support Tony.
Funny thing about Tom’s Peter, he’s more like Lee and Ditco’s Spider-Man. So it’s kind of weird (and a little hilarious) that people who read the comics and love that Spider-Man and also loath Tom’s Parker.
On the surface, yeah he is. Personality wise though, absolutely not. Can you imagine MCU Peter Parker randomly beating the shit out of the fantastic four because he feels like it? He lacks the edge
well not exactly.... Lee and Ditko's spiderman hated iron man. He thought Iron man was an irresponsible rich boy with no accountability. Holland is a perfect casting choice, but the writing doesn't do anything to help him.
@@movieblocks9164 you think that whole dynamic that Peter and Tony had in the comics would even work in the MCU tho? Considering MCU Tony is much more of a better person compared to his comic book counterpart, which, if Spider-Man was more accurate to his comic self in the MCU, would he not have that much of a problem with him? Since this Tony Stark (MCU) actually does make the effort to be more accountable for actions.
@@roblestito93 well so does the comic tony. By then he wasn't as shitty of a person in the comics as well. The dynamic could still work, but that was just me bringing up an example of how they differed.
always really confused as to how so many leftists defend marvel movies and disney's marvel stuff when it's kinda the perfect example of a series devoid of creativity in pursuit of a mega corporation's profit that being said thor ragnarok slaps and so does shang chi
Yeah is sus how Marvel movies and series have taken a very pro-government and rainbow capitalist direction, but I can’t blame people for having their guilty pleasures (and as far as guilty pleasures go, Marvel isn’t all that bad). And I admit that when they hit well, they really hit (additional shout-out to Black Panther and WandaVision!)
As someone who loves LOTR and has nostalgia because I grew up as the Hobbit movies were coming out, I agree with Vaush to an extent here, there's way too much CGI in the Hobbit, and the storytelling is way less compelling. This is true, but also Benedict Cumberbatch as Smaug was really fucking cool lmao Honestly shame on Tolkien for writing the book so he basically just fucking dies immediately, I wanted to see more of him smh
9:54 Phil Lord and Christopher Miller. Everything they produce has this incredible energy and character and artistry. Star Wars nerds should cry themselves to sleep every night knowing that they were removed from making that Han Solo movie.
Toby Spider-Mans individuality and independence was why he will aways be better. His realistic character development of peter/Spiderman. Especially Spiderman 2
Agreed, I like Tom Holland Spiderman but I think it was a mistake to tie him to Ironman as much as the MCU did, it feels like he’s living in Ironman shadow now and not being his own hero. What made Spiderman was compelling in the first place was because he was just an average person who was trying to do the right thing even when it came at a personal cost to him. He wasn’t a billionaire or a hero working for the government like Captain, he had bills to worry about and maintain a job along with being a hero.
Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse is my favorite Spider-Man movie and I consider it as the best Spider-Man movie ever and I'm totally hyped up for the sequel. To be honest, I'm not a big fan of MCU as a massive franchise. The only MCU movies that I absolutely love are both of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies. I used to love Spider-Man movies by Sam Raimi when I was kid. Yes, I watched first Sam Raimi Spider-Man movie when I was three years old. When I was nine years old, I even considered Spider-Man 3 as my favorite Spider-Man movie. Nowadays I still enjoy watching them, both ironically and unironically.
This critique is silly. The characters all come from the same IP, Marvel. So it makes since that Marvel/ Disney would want to create a univerese that encompases all of them, similar to how the comic book univereses do it. I personally find it fun that they are doing this. Some plot line fall flat but overall i think its been a fun experience so far. If vaush wants characters and stories to have standalone universes there are plenty of other movies and stories being told like that.
mcu fans only argument about the raimi movies is "nostalgia" well if thats the case the reason why yall love the mcu spider man movies so much is recency bias
I think that’s the counterargument people who like the most recent Spiderman movies (specifically the Sony and MCU) have, against people who say that the Raimi movies are better. ^_^; Regarding pro-Raimi arguments, I can say they are because their Spider-Man is more of an underdog and working class hero than the other two (the same of Into the Spiederverse Peter Parker and that’s what makes him great), and Raimi’s movie dramatic moments move me emotionally in ways the others don’t (not that Raimi doesn’t have its problem. It’s treatment of Mary Jane it’s pure yikes and a big negative point for me, and I can’t deny that there are parts that are pure cringe).
i think Marvel absolutely could have done the spiderman movies in a way where they don’t give a fuck about the connectivity to the MCU. the problem is that they specifically made Peter Parker’s character in those movies ABOUT his relationship to the other MCU characters. he doesn’t do things because of his own motives and what he wants to do, he does things because he gets Avengers missions basically. edit: and ultimately, i prefer No Way Home over the other MCU spiderman movies because it’s actually about Peter Parker and spiderman as a concept.
A couple of minutes in and Vaush explain perfectly my issue with MCU Spiderman. I hate how they basically turn him into Iron man jr and disregard the responsibility angle of his character. Like Vaush said, in Spiderman 1 and 2, we see Peter struggle with his responsibility as Spiderman at the cost of his personal life in a more meaningful way.
@@jordanelliot3972 but Spiderman struggle with his responsibilities is a core aspect of his character though so removing that just turn him into Ironman Jr. What made Spiderman stand out from the other marvel character like Ironman, Thor, Captain America and other is that while he have powers, he was still a down on his luck average citizen who is barely getting by while still doing the right thing even when it cost him. Speculator Spiderman did a great job showing a high school Peter Parker that the MCU should had gone with
@@rynegreen7902but that's really not his only struggle so instead of rereading ground they focused on what he wants vs what he must do Tom Holland movies featuring stories where he struggles to balance the two Also any one who says iron man jr kinda didn't get the last movies at all Like the words your not Tony are literally in the movies So other than him getting tech which is completely superficial and not in any way narrative based How is he iron man jr??
But MCU Peter struggles with responsibity almost constantly. Does it really matter that much that he doesn't literally say the phrase "With great power comes great responsibility" out loud?
IMO, I have an issue with all the movie Spider-Man’s. Toby is too much of a loser (Spider-Man is always quippy and has charisma), Garfield swung way to much in the cool guy side (as Peter, when he was in the suit, it felt more Spider-Man), and Holland is too Tony Stark jr.
I think this is the correct answer, though I agree with Vaush that the overall idea for Toby Spiderman felt the most right in general. His character only needed a small-ish change to make it fully work.
Remember in Homecoming when Spider-Man (granted, inadvertently) destroyed that bodega and it's never mentioned again? "With great power, comes great responsibility".
I like MCU Peter the best. He and Tony always were good with tech and science, so it makes sense they are close. And honestly, the McGuire movies don´t hold up. Part 3 is like a joke.
Nah first two are still classics. Part 3 was a joke when it came out. It was such a joke that I don't understand how people don't get the entire movie was Raimi's revenge for the studio forcing him to shoehorn in Venom. It had a super dated soap-opera plotlines. Harry got amnesia and then turned out to be evil. Peter Parker had song and dance numbers. The movie was made by the Evil Dead guy, it's pretty blatantly his humor when he wants to make schlock.
The way I see it is this: In the Toby McGuire movies, Green Goblin nearly beats Spider-Man and is only defeated because a bunch of random New Yorkers grab anything that isn't nailed down and chuck it at the bastard. It's a great scene. It couldn't happen in the MCU, unless there was an actor strike and none of the dozens of actors who have played other Marvel characters could be scheduled.
@@Thutil they didn’t beat him, they distracted him long enough for Spider-Man to save everyone. Not the best scene in the trilogy, since it feels like a cheat, but its not how you described it as
Couldn’t Agree more. The MCU has tried so hard to differentiate itself from it’s predecessors, that it ended up losing the appeal and whole point of the character. Spider-Man 2 is my favorite superhero movie, and is what made me fall in love with the character and his stories. HiTop Films does great videos breaking down that film, and why the MCU falls short.
Best take from this type of discourse on twitter is “mcu is mcdonalds it’s cheap and bad but people will eat it and you shouldnt feel like a victim for liking mcdonalds, but you do like mcdonalds”
@@CharliHarveyMusic hey, it’s funny, it’s a fucking joke, if i cared that much or really felt like this, i wouldve stolen the joke and just said people are stupid for liking this, it’s just a fuckin joke, “because twitter” has nothing to do with this go outside lmao
One thing I think a lot of people don't know is that in the comics, there was actually a period of time where Iron Man took Spider-Man under his wing and built him a suit exactly like in the MCU. The main problem I think however is that they basically skipped right to that point instead of arriving there naturally
People also ignore the fact that Peter and Tony's relationship went to utter shit in the comics. Tony literally ruined Peter's life and Peter had to deal with the consequences of helping Tony during civil war. Peter and Tony aren't particularly close in the comics and the only time they were it ended horribly for Peter. Tony also made him the Iron Spider suit in the comics because he wanted Peter to join his side and because he wanted to recreate his spidersense for himself.
as someone who watches some of the DC shows on CW, I think people expect the underfunded CW shows to have the quality of hollywood movies. Supergirl (the scene with the flash was in her show) she started on CBS it was not funded much but BUT they didn't use as much CGI for the characters, for example Martian Manhunter had a physical prop mask on in season 1. (that scene with the flash is also from season one that run on CBS) the CGI stuff was mostly for the super powers like freeze breathe and laser eyes, but Supergirl in season one was going more for normal drama than superhero stuff, while the CW shows are just superhero stuff, which allowed for the low budget and it didn't look bad, because everything was about the interpersonal relationships between the characters and not the villain of the week. when CBS cancelled Supergirl and CW took over, it both adapted to the CW CGI, and the story telling of the rest of the arrowverse, so the quality drop was way more visible. Martian Manhunter had a CGI face on and it looked REALLY bad. bottom line CW shows are CW shows, the CGI is horrendous, but if someone enjoys the stories being told then whatever. At least those of us who watch some of those shows we know that the CW is not going to cancel them and we will get to the end when the producers decide it's time to end them.
Logan, Spiderverse and Deadpool are all great super hero films that we would have never have gotten if Disney owned their film rights at the time because they are so different from anything coming out of the MCU.
@Adrian Nelson Whether or not Deckard is or isn't a Replicant is pointless navelgazing and has _nothing_ to do with the themes of the original story, but, rather, detract from them. 2049 carries those same themes forward and explores them further as well as additional themes stemming from the same questions.
I like how he asks if into the spider verse could have been part of the MCU and uhh... yeah. It could have. It literally has the perfect premise for it lmao
To be honest, the concept of Iron Spider was a thing during Civil War in the comics and Tony and Peter had a bond in the comics as well. Its not the MCU's fault for wanting to adapt something like that especially with the restrictions Sony was giving Marvel due to their rights to the characters. Over all its really a complex issue but i think that MCU did wonderfully with him. But i still got an issue with how young the Aunt is. But again in this universe Tonys supposed to be his "uncle ben" so i guess it would be more awkward for Tony to be flirty over a old woman
@@Kevo6492 i always thought it didnt make sense. Like how could someone im Peters generation (late teens) have an aunt thats like 60 or 70 years old it makes no sense
My favorite adaptations of Spider-Man are the ones where he’s a local hero. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t get involved in Avengers stuff, but his primary setting New York. I kinda wish he didn’t get involved with Thanos because that’s such a huge leap from stopping local thief’s to *fighting a big purple alien who wants to wipe out half the universe*. If he was going to get involved with the border MCU, it should have maybe been with Ultron, fighting a couple robots is way more reasonable.
Talking down later versions of Spiderman is fine by me, but seeing a thumbnail where the US-flag-waving garbage that is the first trilogy is called good actually slightly angered me. As a European I remember sitting in the cinema for the first two moovies feeling really uncomfortable with all the tropes of American Patriotism (TM) back then in the context of the jingoism that seemed to pervade the culture. The MCU-version on the other hand is light-hearted and is used to make fun of the seriousness of some of the other movies.
That ending is why I never bothered to watch the last 2 Hobbit movies, cause the first one just left such a bad CG based taste in my mouth. LOTR practical effects for life!
Why do you watch Marvel if you don't like it when they get powers and throw fireballs at each other? What do you think is going to happen when you see these movies?
what is the argument here? that superhero movies can't be more than this? fight scenes are great if they fit into the story well, other superhero movies did it way better than the modern mcu so idk what you're getting at.
@@hazelgascoigne4712 They can and they should, but he said he loses interest in movies when they get to the fight scene, which implies that it's the fight scene itself that makes him lose interest and not the way the fight scenes are executed. Maybe that's not his opinion but that's how it comes across here.
@@MajorTom106 okay I get it, from seeing him talk about movies in general I think he leans more into what I was saying. the problem with the MCU is that a lot of the time they have interesting personal problems and plot lines in the first half that then kind of get abandoned because there's now a big bad that we fight. I think that's what he meant. it's my problem at least
@@hazelgascoigne4712 It's a marvel movie. There's gonna be a fight scene at the end. That's how they all work. I'm not saying they're all good but I don't agree that the plot gets abandoned.
One thing I would say about this take is that it’s similar to how I feel about The Shocker as a character,in one of the comic adaptation the Shocker is fully aware of his position in the MCU and how he’s only interested in being a small scale criminal.
13:22 Exactly this! I have only ever enjoyed the first halves of superhero movies (and most action Holywood stuff as well). The latter half is just characters beating each other and throwing one-liners until the predictable ending. It all dissolves into noise.
I like the solo spiderman movies. The two main complaints I heard about the newest spiderman is 1: Peter Parker is smart enough to make his own suit. And 2: he got hit waaay to often. Both of which gets addressed. I think spiderman is one of the best done characters in the mcu
The three great enemies of Vaush: alt-righters, tankies, and Marvel movies.
With the secret final boss: Chat
DLC: Anime and Br*tish people
Hearing Vaush casually dismiss Netflix Daredevil is heartbreaking. Best thing in the MCU.
Comparing it to the flash, ffs
He said later on stream that he would check out daredevil and doom patrol.
Jessica Jones was also pretty darn solid.
Daredevil is garbage wym
@@IAmVenix no u
Fun fact, Gimli's actor John Rhys-Davies was the tallest of the entire fellowship at 6'1". Beating Viggo Mortensen, Orlando Bloom and Ian McKellen (all 5'11"), the next tallest by 2 inches.
That’s kinda ironic, isn’t it?
Lmaoo the irony
Also, a majority of the scenes without a direct shot of Gimli's face were the stunt double for Gimli who was under 5 feet tall. The stunt double had more screen time than the official actor but didn't get credited for it
The problem I have with the MCU is that after the avengers movie, there’s NO reason for indvidual hero movies anymore. It makes no sense that a villain like mysterio pops up and Spider-Man just has to deal with him on his own. I’m always just wondering during the solo movies why the fuck the avengers wouldn’t go help whoever it is. They always use some lame excuse like “they’re off dealing with other shit”. The threats no longer feel manageable by one character because they have to keep one upping the last movie.
The Mysterio one is explained tho, and the Avengers don't come together to solve every problem. They aren't going to all go after every random terrorist or villain, they are specifically for world threatening shit. All the single hero movies (many of which also include other heros anyway) have reasons for the other Avengers not being there. They are always fighting someone else (in their own movies) don't have time/can't call the other, or there are some other circumstances. It's never just "no avengers because", there's always a legitimate reason. They aren't lame excuses for them not being there, it's a universe, the entire point is there's other shit going on.
Tldr; It's a cinematic universe, characters will be doing their own shit, and you don't need all the Avengers every time there's a bad guy.
This argument could be applied to every solo character comic being published right now. Why have a Cap, Ironman or Black Widow book when they're in the Avengers? Why have a Wolverine book when he's in the X-Men?
@@zachantes1161 no, I get what you’re saying and I agree that’s the point. That’s what I’m criticizing. It’s a lame ass point that “other shit is going on and this isn’t a world ending threat”. What mysterio was doing was at the end depicted as a world ending threat, even if by illusion and still no avengers. Outside of that, why would the avengers just let someone deal with shit on their own when they could much more easily and efficiently deal with it together? It’s really not even a marvel problem more as it’s a problem with super hero team movies in general.
@@SouthboundpachydermMysterio was revealed to be the bad guy at the end of the film. There is less than a day between Peter finding out Mysterio is the villain and the final fight, and the entire time he didn't know who he could trust because Mysterio could masquerade as anybody. There wasn't enough time to get the Avengers to London for the fight before it was too late, so Spiderman had to step up and deal with it. Besides Mysterio the Avengers tend to leave smaller things to the other departments (remember, they aren't an actual crime fighting force, they are only called when absolutely required) like law enforcement. If they convened for every single little threat then that's all they would ever do, they would just be glorified cops. Most of the time they even get involved in things on their own is by happenstance or because it's something directly affecting them like Ironman (with his villains being a business partner, man who wants revenge for his father, and a terrorist who comes after him specifically) and Captain America (with Hydra and Bucky)
The only person who ever goes after low level threats regularly is Spiderman, because that's his entire personality. He's the friendly neighborhood spiderman, and it's also why he's the only one to notice how serious a threat someone like the Vulture is while Shield (and through them the Avengers) were going to let the FBI handle it as a regular gun runner situation.
The point is that it's really easily explained why the Avengers don't come to handle every threat, you just want to complain about it being a super hero team franchise (despite only four of the movies actually having the entire team).
That works if it's the guardians fighting a villain on a distant planet, but it's hard to accept these huge problems are happening on earth and no one came to help. I mean it's not just the avengers there are abengers adjacent groups, I'm supposed to believe that there is a potential world ending event and the super powerful kingdom of wakanda doesn't step in, with or without the presence of their king.
Part of the reason the Hobbit was shit is because they had to throw out like 90% of del Toro's pre production.
It still pains my heart that we didn't get to see an inspired take on the Hobbit from Del Toro. I don't know why it didn't work out but I feel like it would have been really special.
Spiderman was the working class hero. Once the MCU put Spiderman under the billionaire Iron Man's care, he stop becoming the working class hero
It ain't that deep
Lmao this is a cringy interpretation
socialists cant own money
@@ywnrnf6028 Spider-Man isn’t a socialist. Superman used to be though
@@henrymudgett2646 a jest. a jape. quite possibly a joke
Comparing Flash to Marvels Daredevil is really disrespectful
Yeah, we need to cancel for even thinking they're close to the same tier of quality.
Disrespectful to DD, I hope you mean.
He praised Frank Miller's work on Daredevil, but the Netflix series is a perfect adaptation of Miller's arc, "Man Without Fear."
Season 1 is like perfect television to me. Season 2 was incredibly fun and exciting, the Punisher stuff was top tier Daredevil. And I loved Matt's chemistry with Elektra. Season 3 was god-tier when Kingpin was on screen, but was eh otherwise.
it is extremely overrated and its from Netflix 🤣
Out of all the things Vaush is getting cancelled for this is by far the most heinous
we should cancel vaush and delete his channel over this. I'm saying it. This is a perfectly reasonable excuse to cancel vaushega.
No he deserves it here
I hope by that you mean he deserves it.
MCU Spiderman is the Avengers' pet pretty much and he doesn't feel as relatable. Also both the movies don't really have interesting themes or memorable scenes.
I’d disagree on the scenes part
Like in homecoming when Peter is stuck in that empty warehouse thing for the night and chats with the suits’ AI or the scene with Donald Glover too is pretty cute and when the identity of the Vulture is revealed on prom night or when Spider-Man (not Peter lol) lifts all that rubble is dope as fuck
In Far From Home the bar scene with Beck or the night stroll with MJ is very nice, Mysterio kicking Spider-Man’s ass with all the double switcheroo is cool and then theres that scene with Happy on the plane that has some of those f e e l s (though i find all that high tech tonystark shit annoying)
And then the final battle with Mysterio is awesome too, especially like the end you know
Also most jokes landed for me and both final scenes are a bop and hilarious
But yeah I too really hate Spider-Man being kindof like an Avenger underling? They tried to sorta address this in Homecoming but FFH again has Peter running errands for Fury. And then in No Way Home they pair him with Dr Strange who is basically Tony Stark but Pepsi. So uhhhhhh why cant Spider-Man be his own thing gaddammit
@@lorifoldvary836 Homecoming has nice Peter scenes but the one cool Spiderman scene (him lifting the rubble) is ripped straight from the comic so I don't really count it. I guess he has the boat scene but that was trailer bait lets be honest
In FFH they leaned WAY too much on him being in Tony's shadow without actually solving it. The Happy scene in the plane is nice on the surface but its just another moment of Iron Man stealing his thunder. Mysterio is awesome tho, loved how he was implemented. Tho I wished Peter losing his spider sense then conveniently getting it back was better explained.
I'm worried for NWH cause now he has to share screentime not just with Strange, but with the 2 most beloved Spidey movie villains, reprised no less AND apparently also with the other 2 Spideys. Ffs just let Holland's Spiderman do his thing.
@@nahuelkid yeah I agree
Spider-Man 3 was a mess with its 3 villains though a fun one
I’m not like a big comic book reader so I give credit to the movies even if it’s not strictly original stuff
Besides it must be pretty fucking hard to pick what and how to adapt, there are so many comics xd
Both standalone films are going straight into the trashcan of cinema history ok
@@lorifoldvary836 ... doctor strange was in the mirror dimension (because of peter) for almost the entire movie lmao what are you on
I like Tom Holland as spiderman and I agree with Vaush that the character writing has fucked Spiderman real bad. His simping for iron man is pathetic and the story writing to shoehorn him into the MCU has completely robbed spiderman of his individuality. Mark from invincible is basically the new spiderman now
If you’ve read the Invincible comics you would know this isn’t at all true. Mark and Peter are similar at first but they are completely different characters in the long run.
Vaush please watch Daredevil the Netflix show it's unbelievably incredible and genuinely The Best Thing Marvel has ever created
He's always complaining about modern jump-cut fight choreography and how all Marvel properties are lit and colored the same. This is the one good exception to the rule.
One season is all you need, though.
@@TheInflicted season 1 and season 3 are the best for daredevil tho. Even season 2 has a good start with punisher's introduction.
@@TheInflicted idk season 3 tied season 1 for me.
@@freedominart11 I think he just meant that all you need is one season to know how good it is, not that it’s only worth watching the first season.
Sam Raimi was also a master of using practical effects, especially in the Holy Trilogy. Doc Ocks arms are all puppets, there aren't many shots where they're CGI. And yeah, Tobey's Spider-Man has the best writing
I agree with that and I wish that they would never had the symbiote in Spider-Man 3 . what are your thoughts on The amazing Spider-Man movies . I personally think it's some of the best yet .
@@john-oh9cr I enjoy Spider-Man 3 a lot, but agree the movie would have been much better if Sam was given complete creative control, which would have meant no symbiote, as much as I enjoy it.
I think the TASM movies have genuine issues, but I think they're a lot better than people give them credit for. I wouldn't say they're better than the OG trilogy, but there's a lot to love about them.
@Erik Kemeey how am I a MCU hater . I say that because the amazing Spider-Man movies were more about Gwen Stacy and her death , and the impact on Peter . throughout the course of the whole MCU adventure for Spider-Man , he truly is not the Spider-Man that I know untill the end of nwh . where he chooses to sacrifice his relationships with Ned and MJ for the greater good . Spider-Man is not the wall crawling and web slinging . Spider-Man is about sacrifice . webbs version of Spider-Man in the amazing Spider-Man movies are my favorite , does not mean I am a MCU hater . I think the journey of Peter Parker to become the Spider-Man that we know through the course of three movies have been something that I've actually rather enjoyed .
@@PowercellZeke that's where we are different I would actually say they are better than the original trilogy only because part 2 is a continuation of part 1 . and the death of Gwen Stacy is something that is straight out the comics . personally I think if they would have just focused on the green goblin it would have been better . but those are just my thoughts .
@@john-oh9cr As much as 3 is overcrowded, I think they made a fantastic choice turning Peter into the real villain of that movie through the symbiote subplot. Not because it makes him evil, but because he lets his pride get away from him.
Imo every Spider-Man adaptation has it's strengths and weaknesses, and each is missing something fundamental to the character.
The Raimi films have classic villains and the classic status quo of Spider-Man. He works at the Bugle, he's best friends with Harry Osborne, JJJ hates him, he's poor etc. These films are undoubtedly the strongest representation of the working class background of the character. These films handle the responsibility and guilt complex of the character the best, even if it does lean too far into melodrama. The Raimi films fail for me because the co-leads, Peter and MJ, are just thoroughly unlikeable and uncharismatic as people. Peter is supposed to be timid before the spider bite, but Tobey's Peter never really grows past that. Comic book adult Peter Parker has many chad-like qualities that are missing from this version. MJ is also incredibly toxic in this version. This Peter Parker also rarely seems to actually enjoy having powers or being Spider-Man.
The Amazing Spider-Man rectifies this by having two very charismatic leads with great chemistry. I know people think Andrew is too charismatic, but I think that's just a meme that people have latched onto that's not true to the films. People think that because he skateboards and dresses like a hipster that he's too cool to be Peter, whilst ignoring his obvious social anxiety, isolation, unresolved childhood trauma and speech impediment. I fully believe that his character would be a social outcast, but people can't look past the fact that he's hot. By the way, this is a stupid argument as comic book Peter is hot as fuck. Andrew's Peter is also the only one with the bitter chip on his shoulder that i feel is integral to the character. Peter has been shat on his entire life, and his sardonic humour is just to mask his anger and alienation. Peter can be a real angsty loner and these films try to capture that. Rebellion is also a huge part of the character that's missing from other versions. I also think these films highlight Peter's intelligence more than the others. These films fail however through unnecessary modernisation, trying to avoid the tropes already done by the Raimi films, inconsistent tone, overcomplicating the backstory, and just general poor storytelling.
Tom's Spider-Man nails the light hearted youthfulness of the character. His films are generally fun which is not something you can reliably say for the others, and has the benefit of being in a shared universe which i feel is integral to the character. In his first issue Peter meets the Fantastic Four, he's always been a crossover character. In the Marvel comics universe, people treat Spider-Man like a joke because they don't see how he can measure up against Captain America or Iron Man or the Fantastic Four. He's the ultimate underdog because people view him as just a local neighbourhood idiot in spandex, or a creepy bug man, or a menace. In a world where he is the only superhero I don't think anyone would ever see him this way, he would be viewed as a god amongst men. How could he possibly be the underdog? I think where these films fail is being forced to make unnecessary changes to distance themselves from the other films, such as Ned and MJ, being forced to stick to the "Marvel formula" instead of having their own identity, the complete disregard for the secret identity and the abandonment of the class conscious themes integral to the character. To be clear, I really like Zendaya as MJ, her nerdy character reminds me of ultimate MJ. I just think Marvel called her Michelle Jones instead of Mary Jane because they were cowards afraid of the backlash of having a black Mary Jane. I find Ned enjoyable but also completely superfluous, and it's weird that Betty looks and acts exactly like Gwen but isn't Gwen for reasons?
I find Tom's Peter ultimately too submissive and eager to please. He gets constantly chewed out by Tony and Fury and presumably Dr Strange in the next one, and I feel like if those characters spoke to comic book Peter like that he would snap and tell them to fuck off. Instead, Tom makes a kawaii face and says "gee I'm so sorry mistah, I'll try and do better" like a good little boy. Comic book Peter would also have a big problem with Tony for being a capitalist oligarch. I think it's a big missed opportunity to not have this Peter question his role in Civil War, and whether he was on the right side, as I feel he was quite clearly groomed and gaslighted into supporting Tony despite Cap aligning much closer to his own personal moral philosophy. Homecoming had the bare minimum of class conscious storytelling and they seem to have abandoned that for later installments. Make Parasite starring Spider-Man you cowards.
Anyway, the best Spider-Man adaptations are Into the Spider-Verse, Insomniac and Spectacular Spider-Man, as I feel like these have all the best elements of the three live action versions, plus the missing elements i just described. Vaush bad.
Also all of these adaptations are missing the fact that comic book Peter Parker FUCKS.
Not gonna read all that, I read a couple of lines and liked it, so good job, I bet the rest is good too
wow imagine being this fucking based. Read all of this and agree with nearly every word, very good breakdown
Man, this may have been one of the best breakdowns/analyses of the Spider-Man films that I've read online.
@@GlitzPixie haha, I read your comment after posting my own, couldn't agree more. He should be a pop culture critic.
@@italucenaz for what it says, not that long, just longer than the average TH-cam comment. He should expand it into an article or TH-cam video.
I love that in a volatile political stream, the most incendiary topic is consistantly comics and anime
I feel that says a lot about society as a whole.
There's a term for this. Sayre's Law: "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake". It's why I can calmly talk politics with my friends who I disagree with for hours, but then we get legitimately heated when discussing whether a hot dog is a sandwich.
CAUSE HIS TAKES ALWAYS SUCK
@@kingofthebis1068 his Batman takes, sure, but the MCU is nowhere near the best representation of Spider-Man
@@henrymudgett2646
So?
Spiderman 3 is NOT GOOD, chat is literally just delusional lol
The best scenes in the movie are the terrible attempts at establishing a tone and falling flat so they're funny, or the Sandman scene where he becomes Sandman, which is unironically pretty damn great isolated from everything else in the movie.
Yeah, it's not good but i'd rather watch spider-man 3 than any Amazing Spider-man movie. Spider-man 3 at least has the first two films to support the character growth and it is shot very well.
still better than mcu spider man movies esp that dumpster fire far from home
@@lunali7209lmao shut up raimi fanboy. Literally the mcu movies shit on the raimi films and i say this as a fan of those films.
the sandman scene was so touching and I was mesmerized by it when rewatching spider-man 3 a few months ago. The rest of the time watching was spent either cringing or being really bored. A few other times were spent laughing at things that I'm not sure were jokes.
Spider-Man 3 has some great ideas that don’t get executed well. Although I will say, another aspect besides Sandman’s origins that was done well is Peter in his ahole phase. It’s supposed to be cringeworthy when he’s thrusting his hips, that’s the whole point lmao.
Shared universes become a bad thing when the characters are being molded to fit them, instead of the shared universe molding itself for that character to fit. MCU Spider-Man is the perfect example, he's made specifically to work as an Avengers film character, not as an individual in his own series.
That's everyone though.
Iron Man himself got the shaft very early. Everything after Iron Man 3 exists only by completely disregarding Iron Man 3. Ultron? Bullshit magic retcon. Civil War? Everyone is out of character just to make it like the comics. And so on.
@@FelisImpurrator "That's everyone though."
That's one of the many reasons the MCU is bad in general.
@@FelisImpurrator How are they out of character? Last time we saw Tony he created a bot that nearly destroyed the planet cause he was able to do so without issue of having to answer to anyone, and last time we saw Captain America he was disillusioned with the idea that government should be trusted due to how many things are going behind the scenes that they don't know about, their stances makes complete sense given their previous film before that
@Aditya Chavarkar It was still in character, he decided he wasn't just a suit, he was someone who tried to fight for the betterment of mankind, and what did he believe would make mankind better? For everyone to be have something that could protect them when it was needed, an immidiate a response, a 1 second army, or Ultron, it made sense, while in hindsight it was a bad idea, thats like saying "Oh you can't try to make the world more safe/better, cause maybe it'll fail, or make it worse" Tony was completely in character to have done what he did, and seeing as he later went on to make Vision, clearly it's not like he's bad at it, it's just that he's not perfect at it
TLDR, he made a mistake that he would make in character, which led him to be part of the accords faction, which would be in character, as he felt he fucked up, and needed to make sure, neither he nor anyone else would be able to make that mistake again, tldr, the only way you can claim he's out of character, is you think his character is either perfect, and wouldn't do a mistake ever, or if you thought he wouldn't feel bad for the mistakes he's one, which given how he was introduced in his first film, being any, or both of those things would be 110& out of character for him, I get not liking the MCU, but its people like the guy I responded to that seem to just hate everything about it, and never give it the credit it's due, everyone is civil war is in character, unless you expect Steve to just go back on what he did last film and just decide "Nah, my friend can go fuck himself", and Black Panther to just go "Yeah, my fathers killer can do whatever, who cares, I'm not gonna do anything about it", and War Machine who's a government agent to go "Fuck the government", and Falcon, and Winter Soldier who went through all of winter soldier to go "Fuck off Cap, we can 100% trust the government" etc, and etc
Literally all of Marvel's media outside of movies, with the exception Spider-man PS4 and Spider-verse, is so samey. They ALL try to emulate the MCU. For example, Ultimate Alliance 3 was PACKED full of MCU references to the point of actual cringe. Same with Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. I like the MCU but I think it helped stagnate media outside of movies.
For Real, if you even watch new Marvel cartoons compared to old ones, you can see that they are trying to replicate the MCU HARD.
Ultimate Alliance 3 had characters that weren't even in the mcu ,the hell you on about
FYI, Spider-Verse was Sony, not Marvel. They still own the movie rights, I think.
The marvel game with Kamala Khan is hard to watch
@Adrian Nelson oh cry more ya baby
The big problem with the MCU in general is that tonally they are all the same to the point that they feel like a mad lib. It's movie by committee.
I love a lot of the MCU movies, but that's a fair criticism.
That's because people think it won't be the same property if the tones aren't the same. I lost count at how many people argued the Netflix shows aren't canon because they're tonally distinct from the movies.
Spiderverse is the best Spider Man Movie of all time, and outside of The Incredibles it's also the best superhero movie of all time
I feel like people forget this when they compare the MCU and Sam Raimi spider man movies
Also, props to spider verse for nailing a cross over film for it's first film
@@andrewhaxton1076 I find a lot of stuff about multiple universes in superhero media can feel extremely cluttered. Spiderverse managed to avoid that feeling entirely despite pulling 6 different web-spinners and showcasing a wide variety of villains.
its like comparing the Mona Lisa to a children's drawing
Spider-Verse is an obscenely high bar to clear. It's like, once in a generation great. It's a 10/10, and comparing the MCU's maybe 7.5-8 average is a little unfair to movies that were trying mainly to be mainstream entertainment, not literally pushing the limits of technical and artistic excellence.
I'm glad I'm not only one who considers Spider-Verse as the best Spider-Man movie here.
The best Spider-Man adaptations are the 90s cartoon, Spectacular Spider-Man, and Insomniac’s Spider-Man
Edit: I’m not including Spider-Verse because I’m specifically talking about Peter Parker. Spider-Verse IS the best Spider-Man movie but Peter B Parker isn’t super accurate but it makes sense more than MCU Spider-Man
To me, the most recent iteration is the most like Spectacular Spider-Man. Spectacular Spider-Man is so so so good.
I don’t like Insomniac Spidey having all the gadget stuff but I agree
@@lordbison1771 But Spider-Man has his own gadgets which is why it’s fine. People forget that Peter is an absolute genius and makes technology on a shoestring budget. Insomniac’s Spider-Man having technology is still accurate to the character
@@arachnomancyy I understand but I feel he’s at his best when all he’s got is his web shooters and his intelligence instead of having random drones and other Batman gadgets. It works for gameplay stuff but not so much as a character thing if that makes sense
Let's not forget about Spider-Verse.
Toby McGuire did the best Spiderman and I've been saying this
The first 2 Sam Raimi movies are like... almost one to one recreations of the earliest Spider-Man comics from 1962 onwards.
In some aspects, yes, in others no. They used one of the biggest events in Spider-Man with a different character and didn’t kill that character like in the comics. That’s a pretty huge difference in terms of development for the character.
Tobey's Peter Parker definitely captured the struggling misfit vibes from the original. Then Garfield's was a sexy bad boy for some reason which kind of ruined it,. and Holland's is cute and charming which could work if he wasn't also sponsored by a billionaire.
@@trappedinamerica7740 I thought the webs being a power, rather than something a student somehow made, made more sense to me.
As someone who recently went through those issues. They are super not. Raimi's Spidey never really conveyed who early Peter was. Raimi's Peter is a good kid and Kinda awkward. Early Marvel Comics Peter is an ASSHOLE INCEL. The obtaining of powers didn't corrupt 1962 peter, it exasperated a self aggrandizing insufferable douchebag that was already there. Hell, Uncle Ben doesn't matter until the King Pin story line roughly 5 years later.
You can like Raimi's Spider-man, but don't lie about what he's like. He is super not the comics Spidey, and especially not the era of Spidey Comics he's supposed to be conveying
@@trappedinamerica7740 I think organic webbing made his character much more believable. Good change from the source material.
While Vaush is correct about the dilution of the MCU, I will say it’s not exclusive to the MCU. Films go and come in trends, especially corporate mainstream ones. Think about all the slasher films in the wake of Halloween, how 90’s blockbusters all have similar language in terms of cinematography, exploitation films in the 70’s, etc. Honestly, this was worse in Hollywood’s history despite the complaints of modern blockbusters and mainstream films being diluted from IP focus corporate backing, the film code from the 30’s to the 60’s stifled creativity way worse than modern filmmaking. Honestly, there is more of a range of filmmaking done today, than any point in history. Like gaming and music, modern tech and the internet is allowing indie filmmakers to flourish. You just have to look for it.
The true enemy was capitalism all along.
This is 100% a nitpick but in the MCU movie it feels like they made Peter Parker performatively poor, I mean they gave him a computer with a crt monitor and it felt ridiculous. At this point if you still have a functioning computer that old it's a sign of wealth not poverty, that shit breaks all the time and is too slow to be usable, so the only people who maintain them are hobbiests. He also finds a dvd player on the street and is excited that it works, realistically Peter Parker would probably have a cheap laptop and pirate movies, the 20 year old computer and the dvd player feel out of touch with what being poor is actually like
Ngl, Raimi's Spiderman 3 is underrated. I rewatched it a while back and damn, is it pretty great.
It's a fucking *terrible* movie and I love it.
Half of the movie is great and the other half is awful, but the good kind of awful. Overall, 7/10.
@@Odinsday The entire thing is delicious garbage.
I unironically believe that too. The parts that were good were *really* good. The parts that were bad, well, to me there were just as many of them as in the others. Yes, it had a lot of shit crammed in, but if you paid attention instead of scrolling twitter with one hand, and scrolling reddit with other, it wasn't hard to follow. Nobody dies of needing to focus a tiny bit more.
It’s not underrated. I’d say it was sabotaged by producers who wanted venom in the movie. Sure Raimi could have handled it better but the reason why it’s a bad movie is studio interference
The netflix marvel shows are nothing like the dc cw soap operas. Daredevil, jessica jones, punisher were all great
I recently watched the Toby spidermans 1 & 2 and it made me kinda hate mcu spiderman. The mcu heroes just don't really have real problems, while those mundane problems and interpersonal relationships juxtaposed with a fantastical superhero world have always been what made spiderman so appealing. I know people don't like origin stories but the lack of uncle Ben kinda fucks over the core of Peter Parker's character
6:25 - "You lose things when everything gets rolled in to the same universe"
This man understands.
This is one of the reasons why I'm not invested in mainstream comics as they are. It's also ONE of the reasons I dislike Disney.
MCU’s handling of Spider-Man has been really disappointing. The Insomniac PS4 Spider-Man game is how I wished the MCU portrayed him.
The MCU is disappointing, but oddly enough, in some ways entertaining. I like that they’re demonstrating his strength more, if that means anything. Still no Uncle Ben though.
Having him be older helps. It’s really hard for me to care about his high school drama when high school drama is literally the most meaningless thing in all of existence.
I also wish Spiderman was Sasuke :(
One thing about the original Spiderman movies I really love and the MCU is really missing. Is seeing the public reacting to spiderman
Like one of the most memorable scenes to me in that entire trilogy is when Spiderman has been unmasked on the subway. But all the people there promises to not to tell anyone. You just don't get anything like that in the MCU.
I remember a friend telling me "Look at this Flash scene, looks great, etc..."
After seing it the only thing I could think was: "How do I tell him, How do I tell him?!"
Or you know, you could just let him enjoy what he likes xDlol
@@roblestito93 I did, but my God, if it looks bad.
Also, he asked for what I thought of it, but I had to lie so I wouldn't hurt his little heart.
@@JARV9701 i heard it starts of fine in the first few seasons, i guess it just dipped down in quality after that huh.
@@roblestito93 yup, the first season is good. Second season okay. Gets worse from there.
Spider-Man Homecoming was exactly what you were talking about. A villain that is all personal and issues in his real life at school and shit.
no everything from the vultures origin to his motviation stems more from iron-man and economic struggles that have nothing to do with peter. the only thing that connects them at all is tony stark and of course liz. but him being liz's dad is not very important to the story. spider-man in homecoming is literally putting thousands of poeple's lives at risk to protect the property of a billionaire from a working class man. it's all over the place and not even comparable to the raimi trilogy.
Vulture was a good villain, up until it came to how they dealt with his backstory. Nay, all of Spider-Man’s conflicts in the MCU have had nothing to do with his struggles as Spider-Man, but with either Tony Stark or the Wider Marvel Universe. No villains have a particular grudge against him, nor do they particularly want to hurt him or his loved ones. In fact, they tend to try not to hurt his loved ones, for different reasons of course. Spider-Man just serves as an obstacle rather than a challenge.
@@hazelgascoigne4712 "spider-man in homecoming is literally putting thousands of poeple's lives at risk to protect the property of a billionaire from a working class man." This is madness. Vulture ceased be a working class when he became a criminal. You think Spidey should've let Vulture steal a plane full of Stark-tech and sell it all on the black market, thus arming dozens of other criminals with high-tech weaponry?
Did you forget that the tech Vulture sold to criminals managed to completely obliterate the bank they were robbing as well as the corner store Peter goes to every day? The owner almost died in that blast. Peter was trying to stop the use of highly dangerous alien tech from being used out on the streets by idiots/lunatics.
@@ClintsGrievances I'm not saying he's not doing anything wrong but, yes in this exact situation, crash landing the plane in Manhattan could've and should've been, if not for plot Armor, way worse than letting him get away.
I thought spiderverse established that anyone could wear the mantle? Also Tom’s spider man does encounter villains that are intertwined into his personal life. Vulture was his crush’s dad ffs. Also, Tobey and Tom are the best.
Ps. Vaush bad for his Spider-Man takes
/s
The problem with using Vulture as an example, is that vulture doesnt do or became vulture, or for that matter personally target the MC because of anything relating to specifically Peter/ Spiderman, but because of Tony Stark. The Vulture in the MCU is more a less a IronMan villain that has been skinned as a spiderman villain. Other that the RANDOM ass fact that the vulture is his barely known or interacted with prom date's dad. There is no strong connection between them, like that of his other badguys like we see in the other spiderman movies, or the ps4 games.
No. Both Vulture and Mysterio exist because of Iron Man. Had nothing to do with Spiderman in the MCU.
In all three movies, Spider-Man always has a mentor or another character from the MCU. No MCU Spiderman movie has yet to stand on their own two feet.
The only smart comment so far.
@@darryljack6612 Dude. That's how most villains come into existence in the comics. Going way back. There's a whole bunch that were literally relevant solely because of Kingpin or Green Goblin fucking around.
Spider-Man has not generally been the type to create all his supervillains. it wasn't even that often that they had personal grudges against just him, Goblin/Kraven/Venom etc notwithstanding. What even is that argument?
@@FelisImpurrator ??? Do you not read?
I didnt say that Peter creates all of his villains, i said that Peter has a strong Relation to the majority of his villains.
Goblin has strong relation to Spiderman because of Peter and because Peter's relationship with Harry.
Venom has a Strong Relation to Peter and SpiderMan alike, because of the actions done to and with both the symbiote and Brock in his dual life. You see this relation especially in the recent venom run.
Kraven wanted a hunt, and Spiderman's existence invited said hunt, which made Kraven not just one Spiderman's dangerous foes, but one of Peter's and put those he cared about as risk and brought the danger to him.
Do you get the picture?
These threats and Peter share a strong or semi strong relation, because of the duality and life of either peter or Spiderman.
No such relation is present for peter in the MCU, because both of his threats dont actually care about Parker or Spiderman.
There is no real weight between or true connection of the hero or villain, in these movies. That would exist if Peter was on his own.
It’s therapeutic to hear someone talk about the MCU with anything but undying praise. I like the MCU movies but the unfettered loyalty many people have to them is gross.
If they can't spot a difference in quality between Iron Man and Captain America, I don't trust their opinion on the rest. There are about 5 good MCU films, the rest range from ok to bad.
I honestly prefer MCU and Garfield interpretations of Peter Parker/ Spider-Man. I feel like the old movies went to hard on Peter/Spidey being this perfect angel that could do know wrong, when in the comics he was someone with anger issues as well as always being arrogant prick who slowly matured throughout the early issues. Not only that, Peter believe or not had hobbies outside of being a science nerd which the old movies ignored. They’re good movies, but were pretty 1dimensional when portraying the main character.
"perfect angel that could do no wrong"
*Flashback to him smacking the shit out of MJ*
@@sharkythegw7843 He’s literally under the influence of a parasitic creature that feeds off negative emotions.
@@ABCodeX Or in other words, didn't do it himself, he was being manipulated, thats like blaming Jessica Jones for anything she did while being hypnotized under the "Well she was the one who did, and she could have fought back harder, so she's technically at fault" argument
This, I hate that the movies dropped him from this sort of genuine everyman kinda kid that sometimes acts rash, he gets into petty fights with friends, hell Peter in the comics really wasn't that socially awkward outside the first few issues. He asked for girls on dates, made plans to go out with friends, and sure they don't work out but he still tried to live a normal life.
Raimi movie Peter doesn't seem to do anything unless he's pushed hard whenever he doesn't have the suit on post Uncle Ben getting served like a bowl of rice. He can barely talk to even his close very few friends, is a complete pushover even if he's clearly wronged and...well outside of being smart his personality is kinda flat. He's what the bullies in the comics THOUGHT Peter was because of his Spider-Man duties rather than what he actually was.
Peter and Spider-Man aren't like Bruce Wayne and Batman, they shouldn't have such drastically different personalities.
@@ABCodeX actually those negative emotions weren’t created in Peter by the parasite, just were bought to the forefront. Even Peter acknowledges them with in his final talk with Sandman.
If you have time and movie themes analysis types videos interest you, I recommend watching Like Stories of Old video “The unexplored depths of Spierman 3: Facing the Dragon of Gradiosity”. Even as a stand-alone video it’s really good because it uses the movie to explore philosophical themes.
Once again Vaush with the bad Marvel takes. I do agree that the relationship with Tony isn't what I would have wanted but I think both movies do a fairly good job at making it clear that the point is that he's not Iron man jr but his own hero and that it's wrong for him to try so hard to be like Tony. Sure, both the villains he's had so far are villains becuase of Tony Stark but I don't really see how that's a problem. If you actually look at the other spider-man villains we've had in the Rami films not many of them actually become villains because of Peter, they become villains independent of that but just so happen to have some personal connection with Peter. Vulture might be a villain as a result of being screwed over by Stark but he still ultimately has a connection with Peter due to him being Liz's father, that's what makes that whole sequence in the car so great, it's actually very similar to the dinner scene in the first Rami film were Norman slowly realizes that Peter is Spider-man and that creates great tension so just to write him off as "just being an iron man villain" is silly, especially since Toomes is very much used narratively as a way of pushing Peter to focus on being a friendly neighborhood superhero rather then be Iron man 2.0. Now what about Mysterio? Again he becomes a villain because of Stark but he and Peter still form a connection so when the revelation that he's the villain occurs, it's kinda big deal. Even then, I don't need every Spider-man villain to have some connection to Peter's personal life or be motivated by a bad thing Peter did, even in the comics that's not always the case. I'm not saying the MCU has done Spider-man perfectly, I do think they're trying way to hard to differentiate themselves from the other movies but I still think they do a good job at getting the core elements of the character right, Peter still has to struggle balancing his personal and superhero life and he's still always doubting himself and insecure. Could it be better? yes, but I don't think it's a betrayal of the character personally. Anyways, Andrew Garfield is the best Peter Parker/Spider-man STAY MAD lol
🧢 keep coping
@@rashaadpratt2011 lol
cope
@@MatPost I actually enjoy ASM2 a lot, it's VERY MESSY but it still covers a lot of the beats I love about Spider-man. But yes, Garfield is an incredible actor and I'd take him over Tom and Tobey any day
@@lunali7209 epoc
We're spoiled, I remember when all this shit was just a dream
Honestly. Also geeks have nothing better to do except argue over stupid shit. Its hard to sit down and enjoy shit anymore.
I used to read Word Up magazine…
True but, they ruined it. The point was that superheroes show up in team up movies and then go back to their own universes instead of showing up in someone else's movie every time a movie drops
Marvel fan in the early 80's, saving every nickel I could rub together to buy Chris Claremont's X-Men or a New Mutants issue. Then "Crisis on the Infinite Earths" happened, and I was all about DC. Vaush's complaint about an interconnected universe sounds absurd. Well no shit it's marketing, it's also catering to what the fans want.
@@prajwaljayaraj5887 I don't think they ruined it, but your point is taken, they do really need to back up and give the solo movies a little more stand alone strength, particularly the Spider-Man films, who became Iron Lad with all of the cool toys, instead of the classic everyman loser from the comics, embodied perfectly by Rami and McGuire's take.
Vaush is 90% correct about MCU Spider-Man. Among the 10% he's wrong about is his blaming the fact that Spidey co-exists with other heroes in the same universe. One of the hallmarks of Spider-Man used to be his independence form other heroes and the fact that, like the recent movies themselves mention, he's a "friendly _neighbourhood_ Spider-Man". You don't have to make up some excuses why some random superhero (or at least, you'd have to a lot less) when Spider-Man _doesn't_ have Tony Stark on speed dial.
I loved the way the comics handled Spider-Man's and Iron Man's relationship in the comics during the Civil War/Initiative storyline: Iron Man convinces Spidey to fight on his side and makes him his red and gold Iron Spider suit, then Spider-Man realises Iron Man's an asshole and they fight, then it turns out Iron Man had booby-trapped the Iron Spider suit because he's an asshole, then it turns out Spider-Man had known Iron Man would booby-trap the suit and overrode the booby trap. That to me makes much more sense than Peter Parker kissing Tony Stark's ass.
You are so full of crap
@@prdeadpool1380 Oh no! You seem butthurt. Is everything alright?
@@prdeadpool1380 Homecoming isn’t a Spider-Man movie. It’s a movie that pretends to be Spider-Man without understanding the core themes, conflicts, and appeal of his character.
@Erik Kemeey no
@Erik Kemeey you ever gonna give an argument or just whine about the fact I’m objectively correct?
by far the only thing vaush could say that could push me to the far right
He went from being SpiderMan to Iron Boy Jr, as others have already noted. He doesn't feel like his own character who makes his own personal mistakes, and choices, and drama. But now its just the weight of the MCU itself being tossed on to him, three out of four his suits that he wears are made with Stark Tech, his Bad guys have shit against Tony, even the standard problems that comes with being Peter/Spiderman, like his relationships are not only just passed by with out a second thought. But are also circumvented with the help of Shield and people close to Stark, it all feels bloated and formulaic.
I think the big thing that people are missing is that, Marvel Comics has a large universe, yes. But there were still subsections of the comic universe of marvel that didnt always needed to meld with or be apart of others subsections 24/7. Characters and Groups like SpiderMan and spiderpeople, Mutants, Inhumans, etc. Were all of some of those groups. They felt like they existed in their own worlds unless there was a big crossover event. Now it feels like Disney Marvel is trying to make a rollercoaster ride that worked for one thing. Work for every single marvel property that they can obtain.
Except he literally does shit all the time by himself. You’re cherry picking scenes to validate your shit argument. Sit down.
@@junjiito6298 Yeah?
Ok, of the 2 movies so far, can you name like 3 things of actual importance that he was involved in, that didnt have relation to other factors of the mcu throughout the main story?
@@darryljack6612 So... your complaint has nothing truly relevant to Spider-Man alone, and amounts to "I don't like the MCU's metanarrative"...
Everything past like, Doctor Strange 1 has been filled with "oops, this is actually just setup for/caused by other MCU meta stuff". Well, maybe Guardians 2 wasn't, but it's Guardians. They're in space.
The comics actually have been doing exactly this for years, too. I mean... Megacrossover events have dominated comic runs for so long that the MCU is arguably following them, not the other way around. The industry decided it was the thing to do. And while I don't like that, because goddamn that's too much reading to make sense of anyone's arc, it's not unique to Spider-Man.
Peter absolutely does have his own life and choices, but they're appropriately focused on his personal relationships. The antagonists all being somehow tied to Iron Man or the wider MCU context isn't much different at all from older continuities where, say, Oscorp was responsible for half a dozen villains. Who here is complaining about everyone and their mother being tied to the Osborns back in the day? No one.
If you don't like Iron Man being made into the "main character" of the MCU, fine, but pretending this is about Peter Parker specifically ain't getting very far.
If you think of the MCU as a long running TV show though, it makes sense that Tony got to be the protagonist.
@@FelisImpurrator Actually no,
1, I have no inherent problem with the MCU's "metanarrative", the problem is that it doesnt work for the character of spider man or peter parker. It works for others but not for everyone. Its why the majority Netflix shows worked extremely well. Because it didnt try to fit them into such a different mold and environment, it kept the defenders in their own world. The same way how in the comics majority of the time, Spiderpeople, Mutants, the Avengers, and inhumans are in their own worlds.
2, Yea i know i literally, in my comment addressed the concept of crossovers happening in the comics. Did you not see it?
The problem with what the MCU does, in regards to these mega crossovers as opposed to the comics mega crossovers, as i addressed. Is that they seek to reverse engineer the characters involved into something else from what they are. Thats what makes the crossovers unique in the comics, characters that are all in the same worlds, but often occupy their own space long enough or have done enough on their own to make it feel special. But peter here hasnt done anything on his own without relation to the greater mcu. Do you get what i am saying?
3,"Peter absolutely does have his own life and choices, but they're appropriately focused on his personal relationships. The antagonists all being somehow tied to Iron Man or the wider MCU context isn't much different at all from older continuities where, say, Oscorp was responsible for half a dozen villains. Who here is complaining about everyone and their mother being tied to the Osborns back in the day? No one." Yeahhh!? Dude you literally just proved my point. OSCORP is an entity that exist within special and strong relationship to Peter and Spiderman, having Villains come from oscorp makes sense. Because of Peter/ Spiderman's own unique relationship to Norman/ the green goblin. This is something that is apart of peter's own specific world. Oscorp would make villains to stop spiderman, so if peter was never spiderman, some of these villains might not have been made. Thus showing relation to Peter and his own actions.
The problem with comparing that to Tony, is that regardless of perter, vulture is still a villain, mysterio is still a villain. Do you get the picture? Peter's villains dont matter to either side of peter parker or spiderman, they matter to Tony. And peter just got them dumped on to him. That is a terrible and flawed comparison to make
4, "If you don't like Iron Man being made into the "main character" of the MCU, fine, but pretending this is about Peter Parker specifically ain't getting very far.
If you think of the MCU as a long running TV show though, it makes sense that Tony got to be the protagonist."
A... I have no problem with Tony being the face of the MCU, the problem comes from making characters from certain comics like peter, lose agency and weight because of it.
B, Except thats not what the MCU is, nor should it be thought of that way, because then it would just prove the point of it being stale, and repetitive.
Surprisingly Vaush (and I'm not being an MCU apologist here) but the reason why we have a Spider-Man so beholden to Tony Stark/Iron Man is because when Sony allowed Marvel Studios to use Spider-Man in Civil War, it was agreed that an MCU character should show up in this new Spider-Man 1st movie (hence Iron Man and now Doctor Strange). This wasn't Marvel Studios idea but Sony, which from their point of view you can understand why they insisted on it as part of deal given the popularity of the MCU.
They should've made Steve Rodgers his mentor. There's basically no way Peter would've chosen Iron Man's side in Civil War and I feel the makers knew that which is why they had to invent the whole "I'll make you a new suit" plotline as a way to force him to support Tony.
Funny thing about Tom’s Peter, he’s more like Lee and Ditco’s Spider-Man. So it’s kind of weird (and a little hilarious) that people who read the comics and love that Spider-Man and also loath Tom’s Parker.
On the surface, yeah he is. Personality wise though, absolutely not. Can you imagine MCU Peter Parker randomly beating the shit out of the fantastic four because he feels like it? He lacks the edge
well not exactly.... Lee and Ditko's spiderman hated iron man. He thought Iron man was an irresponsible rich boy with no accountability. Holland is a perfect casting choice, but the writing doesn't do anything to help him.
@@movieblocks9164 you think that whole dynamic that Peter and Tony had in the comics would even work in the MCU tho? Considering MCU Tony is much more of a better person compared to his comic book counterpart, which, if Spider-Man was more accurate to his comic self in the MCU, would he not have that much of a problem with him? Since this Tony Stark (MCU) actually does make the effort to be more accountable for actions.
@@Patthewwonis i dont think he did cuz he felt like it. He did it because he wanted to impress the fantastic four so that they can give him a job.
@@roblestito93 well so does the comic tony. By then he wasn't as shitty of a person in the comics as well. The dynamic could still work, but that was just me bringing up an example of how they differed.
I've been saying that entire goddamn thing. The new spider man is just an sidekick
always really confused as to how so many leftists defend marvel movies and disney's marvel stuff when it's kinda the perfect example of a series devoid of creativity in pursuit of a mega corporation's profit
that being said thor ragnarok slaps and so does shang chi
Yeah is sus how Marvel movies and series have taken a very pro-government and rainbow capitalist direction, but I can’t blame people for having their guilty pleasures (and as far as guilty pleasures go, Marvel isn’t all that bad).
And I admit that when they hit well, they really hit (additional shout-out to Black Panther and WandaVision!)
You mention two incredibly mediocre films compared to the best lol.
Iron Man 1, Captain America 2, Guardians 1 and 2 are Soo much better in every way
@@melaniey.5596 Looks like they are failing with their propaganda because most mcu fans are to the left
Best iteration of Spidey in non comic form: Spectacular Spiderman (2008 carroon)
SPECTACULAR SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN
As someone who loves LOTR and has nostalgia because I grew up as the Hobbit movies were coming out, I agree with Vaush to an extent here, there's way too much CGI in the Hobbit, and the storytelling is way less compelling. This is true, but also Benedict Cumberbatch as Smaug was really fucking cool lmao
Honestly shame on Tolkien for writing the book so he basically just fucking dies immediately, I wanted to see more of him smh
Glad he mentioned lotr
That trilogy was amazing
9:54
Phil Lord and Christopher Miller.
Everything they produce has this incredible energy and character and artistry. Star Wars nerds should cry themselves to sleep every night knowing that they were removed from making that Han Solo movie.
Toby Spider-Mans individuality and independence was why he will aways be better. His realistic character development of peter/Spiderman. Especially Spiderman 2
Agreed, I like Tom Holland Spiderman but I think it was a mistake to tie him to Ironman as much as the MCU did, it feels like he’s living in Ironman shadow now and not being his own hero. What made Spiderman was compelling in the first place was because he was just an average person who was trying to do the right thing even when it came at a personal cost to him. He wasn’t a billionaire or a hero working for the government like Captain, he had bills to worry about and maintain a job along with being a hero.
Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse is my favorite Spider-Man movie and I consider it as the best Spider-Man movie ever and I'm totally hyped up for the sequel.
To be honest, I'm not a big fan of MCU as a massive franchise. The only MCU movies that I absolutely love are both of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies.
I used to love Spider-Man movies by Sam Raimi when I was kid. Yes, I watched first Sam Raimi Spider-Man movie when I was three years old.
When I was nine years old, I even considered Spider-Man 3 as my favorite Spider-Man movie.
Nowadays I still enjoy watching them, both ironically and unironically.
what about spiderman ps4 game is way better than the mcu,
what about spiderman ps4 game is way better than the mcu,
This is Vaush’s most based take yet
No
This critique is silly. The characters all come from the same IP, Marvel. So it makes since that Marvel/ Disney would want to create a univerese that encompases all of them, similar to how the comic book univereses do it.
I personally find it fun that they are doing this. Some plot line fall flat but overall i think its been a fun experience so far.
If vaush wants characters and stories to have standalone universes there are plenty of other movies and stories being told like that.
mcu fans only argument about the raimi movies is "nostalgia" well if thats the case the reason why yall love the mcu spider man movies so much is recency bias
I think that’s the counterargument people who like the most recent Spiderman movies (specifically the Sony and MCU) have, against people who say that the Raimi movies are better. ^_^;
Regarding pro-Raimi arguments, I can say they are because their Spider-Man is more of an underdog and working class hero than the other two (the same of Into the Spiederverse Peter Parker and that’s what makes him great), and Raimi’s movie dramatic moments move me emotionally in ways the others don’t (not that Raimi doesn’t have its problem. It’s treatment of Mary Jane it’s pure yikes and a big negative point for me, and I can’t deny that there are parts that are pure cringe).
mcu fans are right
raimi is a bush supporter
i think Marvel absolutely could have done the spiderman movies in a way where they don’t give a fuck about the connectivity to the MCU. the problem is that they specifically made Peter Parker’s character in those movies ABOUT his relationship to the other MCU characters. he doesn’t do things because of his own motives and what he wants to do, he does things because he gets Avengers missions basically.
edit: and ultimately, i prefer No Way Home over the other MCU spiderman movies because it’s actually about Peter Parker and spiderman as a concept.
A couple of minutes in and Vaush explain perfectly my issue with MCU Spiderman. I hate how they basically turn him into Iron man jr and disregard the responsibility angle of his character. Like Vaush said, in Spiderman 1 and 2, we see Peter struggle with his responsibility as Spiderman at the cost of his personal life in a more meaningful way.
Marvel doesnt retread very often sooo
@@jordanelliot3972 but Spiderman struggle with his responsibilities is a core aspect of his character though so removing that just turn him into Ironman Jr.
What made Spiderman stand out from the other marvel character like Ironman, Thor, Captain America and other is that while he have powers, he was still a down on his luck average citizen who is barely getting by while still doing the right thing even when it cost him. Speculator Spiderman did a great job showing a high school Peter Parker that the MCU should had gone with
@@rynegreen7902 lol
@@rynegreen7902but that's really not his only struggle so instead of rereading ground they focused on what he wants vs what he must do Tom Holland movies featuring stories where he struggles to balance the two
Also any one who says iron man jr kinda didn't get the last movies at all
Like the words your not Tony are literally in the movies
So other than him getting tech which is completely superficial and not in any way narrative based
How is he iron man jr??
But MCU Peter struggles with responsibity almost constantly. Does it really matter that much that he doesn't literally say the phrase "With great power comes great responsibility" out loud?
Vaush chat always had a meltdown when he talks movies
IMO, I have an issue with all the movie Spider-Man’s. Toby is too much of a loser (Spider-Man is always quippy and has charisma), Garfield swung way to much in the cool guy side (as Peter, when he was in the suit, it felt more Spider-Man), and Holland is too Tony Stark jr.
to say all spider man movies are equally imperfect glosses over the fact that andrew garfields movies were horrible
I think this is the correct answer, though I agree with Vaush that the overall idea for Toby Spiderman felt the most right in general. His character only needed a small-ish change to make it fully work.
@@lunali7209 well it’s a good thing I never said that
I both do and do not get the hate towards Marvel movies
Remember in Homecoming when Spider-Man (granted, inadvertently) destroyed that bodega and it's never mentioned again? "With great power, comes great responsibility".
I wanna know what happened when there was a cut and all the chat was screaming CUT THAT OUT lol
"Spiderverse was amazing, I'm not talking about Spiderverse."
*AUTOMATIC LIKE.*
I like MCU Peter the best. He and Tony always were good with tech and science, so it makes sense they are close. And honestly, the McGuire movies don´t hold up. Part 3 is like a joke.
Nah first two are still classics. Part 3 was a joke when it came out. It was such a joke that I don't understand how people don't get the entire movie was Raimi's revenge for the studio forcing him to shoehorn in Venom. It had a super dated soap-opera plotlines. Harry got amnesia and then turned out to be evil. Peter Parker had song and dance numbers. The movie was made by the Evil Dead guy, it's pretty blatantly his humor when he wants to make schlock.
@@JoseRS1186 Honestly, part 1 at least is not so far off from 3. 2 might be good but only because of Ock or the train scene.
You can't compare Daredevil to the Flash. They're like polar opposites in quality.
Tim Pool ruined the MCU for Vaush. I'm livid.
The way I see it is this: In the Toby McGuire movies, Green Goblin nearly beats Spider-Man and is only defeated because a bunch of random New Yorkers grab anything that isn't nailed down and chuck it at the bastard. It's a great scene. It couldn't happen in the MCU, unless there was an actor strike and none of the dozens of actors who have played other Marvel characters could be scheduled.
That makes no sense
????
If a villain can be defeated by civilians throwing random shit then they're a bad villain
@@Thutil they didn’t beat him, they distracted him long enough for Spider-Man to save everyone. Not the best scene in the trilogy, since it feels like a cheat, but its not how you described it as
Couldn’t Agree more. The MCU has tried so hard to differentiate itself from it’s predecessors, that it ended up losing the appeal and whole point of the character. Spider-Man 2 is my favorite superhero movie, and is what made me fall in love with the character and his stories. HiTop Films does great videos breaking down that film, and why the MCU falls short.
Hitop sucks
Lol, Hitops? Really? That guy only had like 2 good videos and they were about Batman. Everything else from him sucks ass and is always over emotional
@@CayeDaws Still, It helped explain some of my frustrations with the MCU’s take on Spider-Man
@@prdeadpool1380 Not an argument
@@henrymudgett2646 his arguments were quickly taken apart by Jay Exci later. I think you are and idiot too.
Best take from this type of discourse on twitter is “mcu is mcdonalds it’s cheap and bad but people will eat it and you shouldnt feel like a victim for liking mcdonalds, but you do like mcdonalds”
me and the boys casually disregarding the cast and crew who work on movies with interesting and thought-provoking themes because twitter
@@CharliHarveyMusic hey, it’s funny, it’s a fucking joke, if i cared that much or really felt like this, i wouldve stolen the joke and just said people are stupid for liking this, it’s just a fuckin joke, “because twitter” has nothing to do with this go outside lmao
when I heard Raimi was coming back for the new Dr. Strange movie, I got so hyped
I hope they let him do his own thing though
One thing I think a lot of people don't know is that in the comics, there was actually a period of time where Iron Man took Spider-Man under his wing and built him a suit exactly like in the MCU. The main problem I think however is that they basically skipped right to that point instead of arriving there naturally
People also ignore the fact that Peter and Tony's relationship went to utter shit in the comics. Tony literally ruined Peter's life and Peter had to deal with the consequences of helping Tony during civil war.
Peter and Tony aren't particularly close in the comics and the only time they were it ended horribly for Peter. Tony also made him the Iron Spider suit in the comics because he wanted Peter to join his side and because he wanted to recreate his spidersense for himself.
i love how consistently terrible vaush's takes on non political subjects are
Terrible? More like Based af, mcu spider sucks
This is one time I disagree with that.
Ya enough with spiderman for awhile. Actually fuck superhero shit for awhile. Like ten years
@@lesclaypoolonbass9431 just don't watch it lmfao
Lmao i loved the tom holland spooderman but vaush can have his own opinions without them being "bad". As the kids say "vaush bad"
Doom Patrol is literally the only capeshit tv show worth watching
as someone who watches some of the DC shows on CW, I think people expect the underfunded CW shows to have the quality of hollywood movies.
Supergirl (the scene with the flash was in her show) she started on CBS it was not funded much but BUT they didn't use as much CGI for the characters, for example Martian Manhunter had a physical prop mask on in season 1. (that scene with the flash is also from season one that run on CBS) the CGI stuff was mostly for the super powers like freeze breathe and laser eyes, but Supergirl in season one was going more for normal drama than superhero stuff, while the CW shows are just superhero stuff, which allowed for the low budget and it didn't look bad, because everything was about the interpersonal relationships between the characters and not the villain of the week.
when CBS cancelled Supergirl and CW took over, it both adapted to the CW CGI, and the story telling of the rest of the arrowverse, so the quality drop was way more visible. Martian Manhunter had a CGI face on and it looked REALLY bad.
bottom line CW shows are CW shows, the CGI is horrendous, but if someone enjoys the stories being told then whatever. At least those of us who watch some of those shows we know that the CW is not going to cancel them and we will get to the end when the producers decide it's time to end them.
I for once wish people would talk about movies and TV that aren't fucking Super Heroes or Star Wars
Logan, Spiderverse and Deadpool are all great super hero films that we would have never have gotten if Disney owned their film rights at the time because they are so different from anything coming out of the MCU.
RAIMI SUPREMACISTS RISE UP!!!
"I hate when comic book characters are too strong at the end of the movie" yeah catharsis sucks
Vowsh disagrees with my Spider-Boi opinion? Wow Voosh bad.
I really miss Spider-Man movies where he’s the only superhero
Movies almost never take their time any more. And when they did it in Bladerunner 2049, everybody whined about it taking it's time. >_
That just speaks volume to today's instant gratification seeking consumer culture.
@Adrian Nelson 2049 is better than the original
@Adrian Nelson Whether or not Deckard is or isn't a Replicant is pointless navelgazing and has _nothing_ to do with the themes of the original story, but, rather, detract from them.
2049 carries those same themes forward and explores them further as well as additional themes stemming from the same questions.
Toby mcguire is our spriderman
I like how he asks if into the spider verse could have been part of the MCU and uhh... yeah. It could have. It literally has the perfect premise for it lmao
To be honest, the concept of Iron Spider was a thing during Civil War in the comics and Tony and Peter had a bond in the comics as well. Its not the MCU's fault for wanting to adapt something like that especially with the restrictions Sony was giving Marvel due to their rights to the characters. Over all its really a complex issue but i think that MCU did wonderfully with him. But i still got an issue with how young the Aunt is. But again in this universe Tonys supposed to be his "uncle ben" so i guess it would be more awkward for Tony to be flirty over a old woman
It’s true, but I think Marvel hired Marisa as Aunt May for the sake of a joke.
@@Kevo6492 yea i guess but i still like her. It didnt make sense to me on how Peter's aunt was like super old in the comics
@@soulslvr9562 Probably has something to do with ethics/optics of the times.
@@Kevo6492 i always thought it didnt make sense. Like how could someone im Peters generation (late teens) have an aunt thats like 60 or 70 years old it makes no sense
Shangchi was nice but still all jump cuts
My favorite adaptations of Spider-Man are the ones where he’s a local hero. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t get involved in Avengers stuff, but his primary setting New York. I kinda wish he didn’t get involved with Thanos because that’s such a huge leap from stopping local thief’s to *fighting a big purple alien who wants to wipe out half the universe*. If he was going to get involved with the border MCU, it should have maybe been with Ultron, fighting a couple robots is way more reasonable.
vaush is right about doc oc they're great everywhere
I can never take Vaush's takes in media seriously 🤣
Yeah I know the "sandguy" part had me 😂🤣
They also ruined the Hulk. A Hulk movie could be a great psychological horror film. But they made him a cartoon.
Talking down later versions of Spiderman is fine by me, but seeing a thumbnail where the US-flag-waving garbage that is the first trilogy is called good actually slightly angered me. As a European I remember sitting in the cinema for the first two moovies feeling really uncomfortable with all the tropes of American Patriotism (TM) back then in the context of the jingoism that seemed to pervade the culture. The MCU-version on the other hand is light-hearted and is used to make fun of the seriousness of some of the other movies.
Spider man was made right after 9/11 happened. So it’s easy to understand
@@YeTism I understood it back then as well. But when you aren't part of the madness it can be very awkward to watch.
maybe don't watch American super hero movies then?
@@Courier_333 I'll be sure to go twenty years back and tell my younger self to avoid those particular movies. Thank you for that brilliant advice.
@@nicolaim4275 I'm sorry lol but if I was watching a movie from another country and they waved their flag I wouldn't complain about it
I'm just over super hero stuff in general. Even deconstructions like The Boys or Invincible aren't super engaging to me anymore.
God you’re so cool.
/s
@@junjiito6298 Man I wish. My best friend is super into the MCU and Star Wars and I'm not particularly into either of those.
That ending is why I never bothered to watch the last 2 Hobbit movies, cause the first one just left such a bad CG based taste in my mouth. LOTR practical effects for life!
The Tobey Maguire Spiderman is the best . Spiderman 2 is one of the best superhero movie of all time .
Why do you watch Marvel if you don't like it when they get powers and throw fireballs at each other? What do you think is going to happen when you see these movies?
what is the argument here? that superhero movies can't be more than this? fight scenes are great if they fit into the story well, other superhero movies did it way better than the modern mcu so idk what you're getting at.
@@hazelgascoigne4712 They can and they should, but he said he loses interest in movies when they get to the fight scene, which implies that it's the fight scene itself that makes him lose interest and not the way the fight scenes are executed. Maybe that's not his opinion but that's how it comes across here.
@@MajorTom106 okay I get it, from seeing him talk about movies in general I think he leans more into what I was saying. the problem with the MCU is that a lot of the time they have interesting personal problems and plot lines in the first half that then kind of get abandoned because there's now a big bad that we fight. I think that's what he meant. it's my problem at least
@@hazelgascoigne4712 It's a marvel movie. There's gonna be a fight scene at the end. That's how they all work. I'm not saying they're all good but I don't agree that the plot gets abandoned.
One thing I would say about this take is that it’s similar to how I feel about The Shocker as a character,in one of the comic adaptation the Shocker is fully aware of his position in the MCU and how he’s only interested in being a small scale criminal.
Fun fact the Brazilian Dub for flash let slip into the scene one of the voice actors saying "what a shit dialogue"
13:22 Exactly this! I have only ever enjoyed the first halves of superhero movies (and most action Holywood stuff as well). The latter half is just characters beating each other and throwing one-liners until the predictable ending. It all dissolves into noise.
I like the solo spiderman movies. The two main complaints I heard about the newest spiderman is 1: Peter Parker is smart enough to make his own suit. And 2: he got hit waaay to often. Both of which gets addressed. I think spiderman is one of the best done characters in the mcu
Vaush seriously doesn't understand marvel characters
Or DC characters. Did you see his take on Batman? He literally pulls the "Batman is a fascist card"
@@CayeDaws He takes the side of the incompetent Gotham police?
@@CayeDaws frank miller’s Batman is definitely a fascist, but other iterations of the character could be considered based
Best Spider-Man adaptation is the Japanese version, FIGHT ME
God, chat was so dumb in this segment.
Vaush should at least watch the first two episodes of Daredevil. Those two episodes are a fucking masterpiece.