My deepest simpathies to the families of the two pilots lost. About PureTrack: It's not pitching a product, Tim. It's reminding people they have one more tool available in case things go south. Where I'm from, I'd sure be happy on having every means available for alerting a rescue party if I ended up in the Andes. Cheers.
The french alps are a very popular area for glider pilots all over europe. Many spend their whole summer vaction there. But its also the most dangerous region for gliding esp when you are used to fly in the low lands most of the time. Its the fourth deadly incident in the last three month over here.
Yeah it can be crazy busy when the weather is good. You can see thousands of them all on PureTrack right now, it's a busy Saturday! puretrack.io/?l=47.15156,3.36511&z=4.5
People able to buy such a glider ( 300 000 euros maybe ) should buy a tracking system . People from northern countries ( and rather flat ones ) come to the southern french Alps because they know the weather is superb and they can fly almost everyday . I was one of them . But those guys are greenhorns in the mountains . I have flown 80 hours in the mountains and I didn't feel safe . You need maybe 10 times more to be OK . As this was taking the pleasure of flying out of the equation, I quit but I don't blame those who persist, the scenery is so incredibly beautifull . Now I only fly in the mountains on "Condor" LOL .
I fly in that area almost every summer. When flying in that area you usually are high and with huge margin to glide to the St. Crepin airport. It's not a place where you find yourself low. It's a place where turbulence can be a bit stronger than usual but nothing that significant. I will be looking forward for the investigation, I'm really interested in understanding what happened...
Pure speculation but airliners have been making the news courtesy of extreme turbulence. So IF the guys in the SH nimbus knew the area & relevant protocol they may have stayed high then found themselves in vigourous rinse & spin cycle. Need the Frog AAIB report to rule out failed conections etc though.
When I was flying the Alpes from St Auban in the July period for many years it was common to have northern glider pilots crashing into the mountains from lack of skill or currency after the European winter. I did the mountain flying course and flew 15,18 and 25m gliders as far north as Mt Blanc and east to the Italian border convergence and south to Vinon. Thunder storms on occasions made out landings necessary and Vultures in thermals were sometimes a hazard plus power lines and ski lifts on the mountain slopes. Mountain thermalling and current ridge flying was a necessary skill to survive where out landing options were limited .This made the return to home flying in Australia very relaxed.
The point missed herein is that it seems the pilot intentionally set his Flarm as « no track » in the ogn setup. I.e. he did not want to be tracked in any form or fashion by the ground stations connected to the web and servers. Who knows why, but certainly a bad choice in such circumstances. This is why it took the plan-B to analyze all the ign FLARM files submitted on a voluntary basis by gliders flying in the sector to lookup all the places their FLARM connected to other gliders in the air to look their latest path… So think twice before you go “notrack” (to the ground stations).
It's all very sad, my condolence's to those affected. @chouk1474 and @pureglide - Is this actually correct? The device shown was able to be tracked, but I think it then just flies into an area not covered by the OGN network. In the video PureGlide appears to have had the tracking information but only up to a certain time, so it must have OGN tracking enabled surely? After the last OGN data point it seems to have no further updates. I could be wrong here, but I know from flying in that area a few days before this incident, that our IGC file downloaded from Flightbook (using OGN data) appears to have a blindspot when flying between St Paul sur Ubaye up over the Crete du Vars, until it receives further updates once you are in the St Crepin/Guillestre area - the traces just show a straight line, yet I know we were thermalling much of the time, and this happened on each day we flew through that area - so there appears to be a blindspot. I suspect if they were even further East towards Ceillac, then it would be even less likely to be picked up by an OGN network Ground station.
In previous years it has been suggested that you leave your mobile phone switched on in the French Alps. The masts are usually high up because the area is sparsely populated. I wonder if this was tried. There is another problem arising from increasing regulations. National parks have become more difficult eg the Vanoise requires you to stay above 1000m AGL and Gran Paradiso is now closed. Furthermore you have to file a flight plan to cross into even a small patch of Italy. This was never enforced until two years ago. As a result there is a great temptation to anonymise/minimise the Flarm data that you transmit, and to switch off the transponder in case the authorities are tracking you. I agree that ogn coverage is not ideal, but I had my Flarm aerial built into the fin, and so my ogn tracks are good, but colleagues with older gliders can disappear for quite long periods in that area.
@@raphael7552 Maybe so BUT No one EXPECTS to crash, whilst if they DO expect prosecution if tracked such behaviour is to be expected There's was a lot of UK video footage of cars breaking wildly & crashing because they spot a speed camera So now the Police & Councils operating the cameras delete the footage & insist cameras make roads 'safer'
Sad to hear about this acciodent but totally agree with your comments. After just on 63 years aviating in aircraft and helicopters in mainly the remoter areas of SW New Zealand I have for many years used a SPOT tracker but as a backup always tell someone else the rough intended flight route and also a "pull the pin time" to come and look for me if not back at a certain time. Seems to work for me and many others thinking ahead. Thanks for deseminating your thoughts and opinions.
That’s so sad 😞 My condolences to the victims loved ones 😢 I would like to see a video on how you have configured your glider (instrument & tracking devices like Larus/Flarm etc), as I am not as experienced in these regards yet. I have watched some of Stefan’s videos and talked to a friend about his setup, but would like to have some additional input. Thank you in advance.
My deep condolences to the families. My heart missed a beat on reading "Nimbus" and "Aspers" as Klaus Ohlmann is based there and flies that type. But the registration is different.
Here I am. And Klaus himself suggests moving from Serres to Aspers (especially for twin-seaters) in his briefings when there’s strong southern wind forecast.
I'm having some big difficulty in keeping OGN DDB database updated. I have FIFTEEN entries that I need to update but they are assigned to unknown other accounts and I'm unable to have them freed.
Hi yeah it's a pain, the easiest thing to do is change the FLARM IDs in your devices, then you can configure the new IDs in your OGN account. Why do you have 15 though? Are you managing other people's?
@@PureGlide it's most of the fleet of my club. I managed to fix all the entries in Flarmnet but DDB is being a PITA. Most emails have been ignored, the few responses I got were of little help.
Hi yes those FLARM devices I mentioned are loggers that record the flight, there was one on that aircraft, so no doubt investigators will look at that data to piece together what went wrong.
probably not to the extent available with commercial airliners. Although on-board trackers can give useful information on how the aircraft flew, and important clues, but that's often without recording the cockpit and radio conversations, without recording pilot control inputs etc.
@@rnzoli Flying a glider with such a wingspan as an ASH25 can be more dangerous than a 15 m one in the rough thermals and ridge lift in the mountains . A few years ago a very skilled CFI with more than 15 000 flight hours was killed with his student in a spin accident .
Quick Q... I have added my new Oudie to the OGN database but is it possible to edit the name/callsign? Can it be customised on their site? Many thanks!
Hi you can edit the aircraft registration and contest ID on the OGN database, but not name. To configure names , say for paraglider pilots, you can do that on PureTrack puretrack.io/help/navigator
Stop calling me "you tube" - that's not my name! No idea why more people don't invest in better EC. That said, I have ADSB out, and puretrack does not seem to have my flights from a couple of days ago, or my two flights from today.
haha but it's really hard to use everyone's name! What's your rego and rough location/airport? I'll have a look. Depending where you are there might not be an ADSB receiver near you for the ADSB network I use. There's a coverage map here www.adsbhub.org/coverage.php
the way you pronounce Schempp is wow, Hirth is ultra ... i dont pronounce Porsche as porch. and Renault not as Rhinjault. as an aviator, how about pronouncing these few names correctly? ;) best wishes.
@@PureGlide Exactly!) I even pronounce Renault as Dacia and still I am satisfied with it, being able to bring a trailer from France to Eastern Europe by this cheap but unthirsty car:)
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.4 (4/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/d3l5rxl5CVo/mqdefault.jpg)
My deepest simpathies to the families of the two pilots lost.
About PureTrack: It's not pitching a product, Tim. It's reminding people they have one more tool available in case things go south. Where I'm from, I'd sure be happy on having every means available for alerting a rescue party if I ended up in the Andes.
Cheers.
The french alps are a very popular area for glider pilots all over europe. Many spend their whole summer vaction there. But its also the most dangerous region for gliding esp when you are used to fly in the low lands most of the time. Its the fourth deadly incident in the last three month over here.
Yeah it can be crazy busy when the weather is good. You can see thousands of them all on PureTrack right now, it's a busy Saturday! puretrack.io/?l=47.15156,3.36511&z=4.5
People able to buy such a glider ( 300 000 euros maybe ) should buy a tracking system .
People from northern countries ( and rather flat ones ) come to the southern french Alps because they know the weather is superb and they can fly almost everyday . I was one of them . But those guys are greenhorns in the mountains . I have flown 80 hours in the mountains and I didn't feel safe . You need maybe 10 times more to be OK . As this was taking the pleasure of flying out of the equation, I quit but I don't blame those who persist, the scenery is so incredibly beautifull . Now I only fly in the mountains on "Condor" LOL .
I fly in that area almost every summer. When flying in that area you usually are high and with huge margin to glide to the St. Crepin airport. It's not a place where you find yourself low. It's a place where turbulence can be a bit stronger than usual but nothing that significant. I will be looking forward for the investigation, I'm really interested in understanding what happened...
Pure speculation but airliners have been making the news courtesy of extreme turbulence.
So IF the guys in the SH nimbus knew the area & relevant protocol they may have stayed high
then found themselves in vigourous rinse & spin cycle.
Need the Frog AAIB report to rule out failed conections etc though.
When I was flying the Alpes from St Auban in the July period for many years it was common to have northern glider pilots crashing into the mountains from lack of skill or currency after the European winter. I did the mountain flying course and flew 15,18 and 25m gliders as far north as Mt Blanc and east to the Italian border convergence and south to Vinon. Thunder storms on occasions made out landings necessary and Vultures in thermals were sometimes a hazard plus power lines and ski lifts on the mountain slopes. Mountain thermalling and current ridge flying was a necessary skill to survive where out landing options were limited .This made the return to home flying in Australia very relaxed.
The point missed herein is that it seems the pilot intentionally set his Flarm as « no track » in the ogn setup. I.e. he did not want to be tracked in any form or fashion by the ground stations connected to the web and servers. Who knows why, but certainly a bad choice in such circumstances. This is why it took the plan-B to analyze all the ign FLARM files submitted on a voluntary basis by gliders flying in the sector to lookup all the places their FLARM connected to other gliders in the air to look their latest path… So think twice before you go “notrack” (to the ground stations).
It's all very sad, my condolence's to those affected.
@chouk1474 and @pureglide - Is this actually correct? The device shown was able to be tracked, but I think it then just flies into an area not covered by the OGN network.
In the video PureGlide appears to have had the tracking information but only up to a certain time, so it must have OGN tracking enabled surely? After the last OGN data point it seems to have no further updates. I could be wrong here, but I know from flying in that area a few days before this incident, that our IGC file downloaded from Flightbook (using OGN data) appears to have a blindspot when flying between St Paul sur Ubaye up over the Crete du Vars, until it receives further updates once you are in the St Crepin/Guillestre area - the traces just show a straight line, yet I know we were thermalling much of the time, and this happened on each day we flew through that area - so there appears to be a blindspot. I suspect if they were even further East towards Ceillac, then it would be even less likely to be picked up by an OGN network Ground station.
In previous years it has been suggested that you leave your mobile phone switched on in the French Alps. The masts are usually high up because the area is sparsely populated. I wonder if this was tried. There is another problem arising from increasing regulations. National parks have become more difficult eg the Vanoise requires you to stay above 1000m AGL and Gran Paradiso is now closed. Furthermore you have to file a flight plan to cross into even a small patch of Italy. This was never enforced until two years ago. As a result there is a great temptation to anonymise/minimise the Flarm data that you transmit, and to switch off the transponder in case the authorities are tracking you. I agree that ogn coverage is not ideal, but I had my Flarm aerial built into the fin, and so my ogn tracks are good, but colleagues with older gliders can disappear for quite long periods in that area.
Mieux vaut être mal jugé par 12, que bien porté par 6.
Une suspension de licence ou une amende ne remplace pas la vie.
@@Jmcc150good Point.
@@raphael7552 Maybe so BUT
No one EXPECTS to crash, whilst if they DO expect prosecution if tracked such behaviour is to be expected
There's was a lot of UK video footage of cars breaking wildly & crashing because they spot a speed camera
So now the Police & Councils operating the cameras delete the footage & insist cameras make roads 'safer'
Sad to hear about this acciodent but totally agree with your comments. After just on 63 years aviating in aircraft and helicopters in mainly the remoter areas of SW New Zealand I have for many years used a SPOT tracker but as a backup always tell someone else the rough intended flight route and also a "pull the pin time" to come and look for me if not back at a certain time. Seems to work for me and many others thinking ahead. Thanks for deseminating your thoughts and opinions.
That’s so sad 😞 My condolences to the victims loved ones 😢
I would like to see a video on how you have configured your glider (instrument & tracking devices like Larus/Flarm etc), as I am not as experienced in these regards yet. I have watched some of Stefan’s videos and talked to a friend about his setup, but would like to have some additional input. Thank you in advance.
I'd really like to know why my supportive comments keep getting deleted here.
Hi not sure sorry, it’s not me deleting them! I’ll check the junk folder
@PureGlide I hear this is a thing that happens automatically. It's my frst time experiencing it.
@@tricky2917 yes, TH-cam deletes comments based on their awful algorithm, silently, without any evidence for the commenter or the channel owner.
My deep condolences to the families. My heart missed a beat on reading "Nimbus" and "Aspers" as Klaus Ohlmann is based there and flies that type. But the registration is different.
Klaus is based at Serres
@@glide4fun These are neighboring airfields in the same valley, and pilots switch between them based on wind conditions.
@@DimkaPlotnikoff I never heard pilots from Serres who went to Aspres to take off / land (!). Have a nice flight
Here I am. And Klaus himself suggests moving from Serres to Aspers (especially for twin-seaters) in his briefings when there’s strong southern wind forecast.
@@glide4fun Klaus keeps his Nimbus2DM at Aspres-sur-Buech aerodrome.
I'm having some big difficulty in keeping OGN DDB database updated. I have FIFTEEN entries that I need to update but they are assigned to unknown other accounts and I'm unable to have them freed.
Hi yeah it's a pain, the easiest thing to do is change the FLARM IDs in your devices, then you can configure the new IDs in your OGN account. Why do you have 15 though? Are you managing other people's?
@@PureGlide it's most of the fleet of my club.
I managed to fix all the entries in Flarmnet but DDB is being a PITA.
Most emails have been ignored, the few responses I got were of little help.
So sad...
Is there a type of "flight data recorder in a glider", to determine what went wrong?
Hi yes those FLARM devices I mentioned are loggers that record the flight, there was one on that aircraft, so no doubt investigators will look at that data to piece together what went wrong.
probably not to the extent available with commercial airliners. Although on-board trackers can give useful information on how the aircraft flew, and important clues, but that's often without recording the cockpit and radio conversations, without recording pilot control inputs etc.
@@PureGlide To me "Pure glide" means incident free gilding.
@@steffanjansenvanvuuren3257
Unfortunately, accidents also happen in glider flying, so it makes sense to publish this here
@@rnzoli Flying a glider with such a wingspan as an ASH25 can be more dangerous than a 15 m one in the rough thermals and ridge lift in the mountains . A few years ago a very skilled CFI with more than 15 000 flight hours was killed with his student in a spin accident .
This should never have hippined.
Quick Q... I have added my new Oudie to the OGN database but is it possible to edit the name/callsign? Can it be customised on their site? Many thanks!
Hi you can edit the aircraft registration and contest ID on the OGN database, but not name. To configure names , say for paraglider pilots, you can do that on PureTrack puretrack.io/help/navigator
I'd heard that these were missing, hadn't heard that they'd been found but wasn't looking hopeful. Blue skies
So sad... 😢
:(
Stop calling me "you tube" - that's not my name! No idea why more people don't invest in better EC. That said, I have ADSB out, and puretrack does not seem to have my flights from a couple of days ago, or my two flights from today.
haha but it's really hard to use everyone's name! What's your rego and rough location/airport? I'll have a look. Depending where you are there might not be an ADSB receiver near you for the ADSB network I use. There's a coverage map here www.adsbhub.org/coverage.php
@@PureGlide I normally fly in Switzerland, but I'm on a trip to the north of Norway, which of course explains the gaps in coverage. Cheers!
the way you pronounce Schempp is wow, Hirth is ultra ...
i dont pronounce Porsche as porch. and Renault not as Rhinjault. as an aviator, how about pronouncing these few names correctly? ;) best wishes.
I only see it written down, and us Kiwis tend to say things a bit differently to the rest of the world
@@PureGlide Exactly!) I even pronounce Renault as Dacia and still I am satisfied with it, being able to bring a trailer from France to Eastern Europe by this cheap but unthirsty car:)