John; I know you are in love with that adaptive cycle. It does have its uses for inside pocketing. For slotting you may find a alternate method for this part would be faster and more reliable. When you have time try this. Take your 1/4" endmill with the tip radius and make slotting passes at very shallow depth of cut. You didn't say (Or I don't remember) how deep your slot was. Lets say .150" deep. Take ten passes at .015 depth at 10,000 RPM and 100 IPM what was your width lets say 3" of distance so 3 x 20 passes = 60" at 100 IPM that = .6 minutes. See with adaptive you are cutting air about 30-50% of the time. With this shallow depth of cut in slotting with the tip radius endmill you are basically doing feed milling (The tip radius thins the chip) the tool won't load up. Actually you may find you can feed even faster than 100 IPM that's only .0033 feed per tooth of your 3FL endmill. This method of milling makes a thicker smaller chip that is easer evacuated by coolant or your air mist for slotting operations. With bigger parts and with a proper feedmill, this is the most efficient way to rough parts now days. It does require more horse power than the Tormach might have. Your Haas would do it fine. Look into feed milling.
Really enjoying these longer full depth video. Love seeing the subtle differences of how things are done across the water as well. Keep it up john and the team.
Your tool broke because your chip load was too low. You need to feed faster or take a larger WOC. You need to make a decent size chip so that the heat can be taken away with the chips instead of transferring to the tool or part. I say it in almost all of your videos, but HSM milling is a waste of time in aluminum. You can run full slotting at 1XD depth no problem.
I work with Inventor and used to have similar issues of not being able to select geometry similar to this. However, in this situation, you actually didn't have any geometry to select other than what you projected. Create the entire rectangle and make sure the points lock/constrain to the corner points on the projected geometry and it will still be parametric. In Inventor, you can hover over the line to select other geometry, I imagine Fusion has the same feature since they are both Autodesk products.
You know what's really cool? I'm not a machinist (not cool, yet) but, having learned so much on this channel, I immediately spotted that the mill needed tramming, right before John mentioned it. Good stuff!
Thanks for sharing where to find the good set screws for the set screw holders. I've been trying to find the good set screws for a couple weeks now. Also, not many guys show the art of flipping the part so thanks for sharing that as well, and don't be afraid to show how you flip the part in your upcoming videos as well....Always interesting.
Know what’s even faster than the 3/6”? 1/4” endmill full width ramp slotting 😁 If you had set up a stop on the left side when doing op 1, and picked your Z zero as the top of your parallels. Instead of futsing around with all those sketches in op 2. You could have just picked the upper left corner at the bottom of the model box for your op2 position. No need to re establish your XYZ zeros in the machine. Just flip, and put the finished edge against the stop. And done. Also. No need to face on op 1. You’re already running a horizontal path later. Just have it do the top as well.
John, instead of breaking the link to model in your sketch, try adding short lines on the top and bottom edges to close the loop of the region you want to retain. This works in almost all parametric CAD programs and it works in Fusion 360 as well.
Here is how you save your tool after chipmelting without breaking the flutes!! Put it in almost boiling hot water with some caustic soda. And it literally eats the aluminium away. You end up with a brand new tool. ;) even if there are massive chunks. 20-40min and done.
Yep, at 19:58 you can clearly see that the head is slightly rotated counter clockwise, and needs some trimming :) It takes a secondary cut going to the right, and not whne going to the left
Sense the last thing you do on both op1 and op2 is the chamfer on the outside edge, with that tool loaded could you have gone in and just broke the edge on your through holes to save you time deburring later on by hand?
Hi John, i appriciate your knowledge, but could it be better to take a roughing mill with cropshape and rough the whole slot out, change the tool to a end mill and finish the sides and the bottom with it? I work with this setup quite very good, especially by big parts out of aluminium with roughly more tha 300-500 cm3³ to remove.
I was going to suggest you just plow the groove and not screw around with adaptive, but about 1000 folks have already done so. Instead, I will suggest you get some roughing mills, and plow the groove and stop screwing around with adaptive :)
Your becoming to reliant on adaptive milling, those slots should just be slotted, it is only aluminium. Your tools and machines can easily do this and you will save plenty of cycle time. Don't be afraid.
Doesn't work with a projected line. Projected geometry is linked back to a feature on the part so that if the feature changes the projection updates along with it. It can only be changed if that link is broken.
Thanks for the feed back guys, I think John showed this and had to remove the link. I was just thinking about afterwards when the trim function moved the sketch, maybe break would have worked
As another commenter has already mentioned, the projected lines can be converted not construction lines. Then you can complete the rectangle with 2 "normal lines. This will maintain the parametric nature.
Jim's videos Probably for an unvented application inside something where there’s no fan to move air around it. A large block to act as a thermal mass works better than a finned one in applications like that.
5:57 The WOC was rather too small. You need to cut the chips, not smear the aluminum around or weld it to the cutter. And some mist coolant always helps with aluminum.
We use full depth slotting all day every day in our job job. WAY less wear and tear on the machines servos and screws and way less programming and in aluminum with carbide?... who cares. OR like John said in a past video, use the largest tool you can? How about 5/16" tool, 1 pass rough, 1 pass on each side .001" cleanup.... 3 passes would take about 30 seconds.
Don't bottom the drill in the chuck before tightening, and also don't chuck on the flutes, unless you like broken drills. (Think about it: the drill tip applies torque to the drill shaft, trying to untwist the flutes. This causes them to expand in diameter a small amount. This causes a stress point at the place the hardened flute contacts the tip of the chuck jaw, and can chip the flute. This can lead to a fracture and break the drill off at the end of the chuck jaws.)
dcraig4 Cept usually much longer operations have far more complex geometry and there’s no good way of telling just what was and wasn’t cut. This would be useful maybe if it was a tough material that had to be machined slowly. But I don’t see it being that useful to do.
If you see that kind of machining times on a simple, shallow open slot. You should do a sanity check and think again what's going on. Compare the slot length and your feed rate, does it make any sense? Absolutely not. It's absurd.
Why not just contour the slots leaving .01 on the walls and the floor? That is, take it all in one full depth leaving .01. I would take a full depth using all 180deg of the cutter.
Use 1 or "O" flute tools to keep chip welding aluminum particularly in the absence of flood coolant. Aluminum can actually be machined most effectively at 3000SFM but it is absolutely necessary to have 1 flute tools to make that kind of cut sustainable in the absence of flood coolant but at more conventional SFM which you are utilizing it is also surprisingly advantageous to use 1 flute tools for aluminum machining. Check out datron CNC, they make their own 1 flute tools some of which feature patented special geometries, but many of the less expensive 1 flute endmills perform well for this application.
Eh, single flute end mills have their place, but they're are kind of a specialty thing, if I'm not mistaken. They have better chip evacuation and can be fed slower if you need to run at a high RPM. But if you don't really need those features then you're probably going to remove more material by feeding a three flute cutter three times as fast. As far as proper surface speed, I've never seen a company recommending their carbide tools be run at 3000 SFM in aluminum. That's more in the range of what diamond cutters want. You'd also need close to 50k RPM on your spindle to get that kind of speed out of a 1/4" cutter like they're using here.
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John; I know you are in love with that adaptive cycle. It does have its uses for inside pocketing. For slotting you may find a alternate method for this part would be faster and more reliable. When you have time try this. Take your 1/4" endmill with the tip radius and make slotting passes at very shallow depth of cut. You didn't say (Or I don't remember) how deep your slot was. Lets say .150" deep. Take ten passes at .015 depth at 10,000 RPM and 100 IPM what was your width lets say 3" of distance so 3 x 20 passes = 60" at 100 IPM that = .6 minutes. See with adaptive you are cutting air about 30-50% of the time. With this shallow depth of cut in slotting with the tip radius endmill you are basically doing feed milling (The tip radius thins the chip) the tool won't load up. Actually you may find you can feed even faster than 100 IPM that's only .0033 feed per tooth of your 3FL endmill. This method of milling makes a thicker smaller chip that is easer evacuated by coolant or your air mist for slotting operations. With bigger parts and with a proper feedmill, this is the most efficient way to rough parts now days. It does require more horse power than the Tormach might have. Your Haas would do it fine. Look into feed milling.
Really enjoying these longer full depth video. Love seeing the subtle differences of how things are done across the water as well. Keep it up john and the team.
Thanks for adding metric numbers! Please keep them coming :)
Absolutely!
Your tool broke because your chip load was too low. You need to feed faster or take a larger WOC. You need to make a decent size chip so that the heat can be taken away with the chips instead of transferring to the tool or part. I say it in almost all of your videos, but HSM milling is a waste of time in aluminum. You can run full slotting at 1XD depth no problem.
and you can cut fast slotting @ 1XD
I work with Inventor and used to have similar issues of not being able to select geometry similar to this. However, in this situation, you actually didn't have any geometry to select other than what you projected. Create the entire rectangle and make sure the points lock/constrain to the corner points on the projected geometry and it will still be parametric. In Inventor, you can hover over the line to select other geometry, I imagine Fusion has the same feature since they are both Autodesk products.
You know what's really cool? I'm not a machinist (not cool, yet) but, having learned so much on this channel, I immediately spotted that the mill needed tramming, right before John mentioned it. Good stuff!
thanks for showing metric infos :)
Instead of "break link" @ 10:58, change the projected lines into construction geometry to keep the parametric properties of the sketch.
one of your best ever videos John, and I've watched them all. Thanks!
We all love Adaptive, but sometimes? Slotting is the proper technique.
for aluminum definitely slot with lot of coolant is the fastest way
Arbor gang milling. Single pass.
YEAH I WOULD SLOT THAT OUT.. SLOTTING WOULD BE ALOT FASTER
Can yall elaborate some crucial technique differences on exactly one is better then the other plz & thanks
Mr Me slotting is just left to right then right to left dropping in z after each pass..
All my Tuesday wishes came true! Thanks, John!
Thanks for sharing where to find the good set screws for the set screw holders. I've been trying to find the good set screws for a couple weeks now. Also, not many guys show the art of flipping the part so thanks for sharing that as well, and don't be afraid to show how you flip the part in your upcoming videos as well....Always interesting.
Thanks! More coming :)
Know what’s even faster than the 3/6”?
1/4” endmill full width ramp slotting 😁
If you had set up a stop on the left side when doing op 1, and picked your Z zero as the top of your parallels. Instead of futsing around with all those sketches in op 2. You could have just picked the upper left corner at the bottom of the model box for your op2 position. No need to re establish your XYZ zeros in the machine. Just flip, and put the finished edge against the stop. And done.
Also. No need to face on op 1. You’re already running a horizontal path later. Just have it do the top as well.
"3/6"? Lol, I knew what you meant.
Ian Munsell
New phone.
It has a mind of its own 😆
IKR. I just got an apple and it often feels like it's writing for me.
Ian Munsell iPhone X. Pretty sure it’s smarter than me...
John, instead of breaking the link to model in your sketch, try adding short lines on the top and bottom edges to close the loop of the region you want to retain. This works in almost all parametric CAD programs and it works in Fusion 360 as well.
Thank you for the conversions right in the vid!
17:15 I love your videos but I am not going to pee on my keyboard to project :P
I'm not going to click on his bottom either. LOL
Here is how you save your tool after chipmelting without breaking the flutes!!
Put it in almost boiling hot water with some caustic soda. And it literally eats the aluminium away. You end up with a brand new tool. ;) even if there are massive chunks. 20-40min and done.
Agree on the Autodesk needing to improve partial projected sketches. Trips me up non stop all the time.
awsome tutorial i will be watching this over over again and again thanks!
Sodium Hydroxide is your friend for removing aluminium from carbide tools :)
Hi,
What CAM do you use or recommend?
Cool stuff! Going to manage a bit complex part exactly the same way
I'd love to hear more on your touchscreen: what brand and technologies work well in the shop?
Soak the end mill in a lye solution and any aluminium built up or welded on will be disolved quickly.
what blade do you use on your saw for aluminum?
Yep, at 19:58 you can clearly see that the head is slightly rotated counter clockwise, and needs some trimming :)
It takes a secondary cut going to the right, and not whne going to the left
Can you tell me what is the make and model of the larger microscope camera ($800-$900 range)?
This channel is fantastic.
Sense the last thing you do on both op1 and op2 is the chamfer on the outside edge, with that tool loaded could you have gone in and just broke the edge on your through holes to save you time deburring later on by hand?
Hey! thanks for the metrics!!! so much easier to follow
I’m not going to lie, 13 year old me laughed when you said “p on your keyboard”
"I'm going to right click on my bottom." 🤣
Big thx for metric!
If you use coolant it would cut that slot from your shop to Sacramento California. We used one 1/4" 3-flute Accupro for 11 months one time.
Hi John, i appriciate your knowledge, but could it be better to take a roughing mill with cropshape and rough the whole slot out, change the tool to a end mill and finish the sides and the bottom with it?
I work with this setup quite very good, especially by big parts out of aluminium with roughly more tha 300-500 cm3³ to remove.
Thank you so much for the metric info and good content
I only have a 3D printer but this shit is fkn sick 👌 Keep it up man!
John relay like the new updated web site. A lot of good info there many I am working on setting for my company. Thanks
I peed on my keyboard but it didn't seem to work. Also now it isn't working. Help?
I think you could make the projected shape construction line and draw a rectangle over it
Why didn’t you just slot the tool through the center of the “fins” of the heatsink, and then come back with a contour operation to clean up the sides?
When I tried to do 2d adaptive for similar kind of slot I get bunch of of G1’s in the code and machine(Haas) shakes a lot.any possible solution?
What is the brand of the microscope that is connected to the display?
NYC CNC, where to buy the best quality end mills?
like that you added metric parameters :) u rock
there is good information here, nice job.
I was going to suggest you just plow the groove and not screw around with adaptive, but about 1000 folks have already done so.
Instead, I will suggest you get some roughing mills, and plow the groove and stop screwing around with adaptive :)
What is the best method to get out sticky aluminium chips from a carbide endmill?
Patrick Niechciol when I was learning, I would soak the tool in hydrochloric acid. Perfect clean. ( carbide only, I'm told the HCl harms steels)
Your becoming to reliant on adaptive milling, those slots should just be slotted, it is only aluminium. Your tools and machines can easily do this and you will save plenty of cycle time. Don't be afraid.
Have you tried using the "break" line just below the extend function? This should create 2 separate line segments instead of the 1 constant line
Doesn't work with a projected line. Projected geometry is linked back to a feature on the part so that if the feature changes the projection updates along with it. It can only be changed if that link is broken.
Jeb Julian
I don’t think anything that’s projected and linked back to the original part can be broken or modified without first breaking the link.
Thanks for the feed back guys, I think John showed this and had to remove the link. I was just thinking about afterwards when the trim function moved the sketch, maybe break would have worked
As another commenter has already mentioned, the projected lines can be converted not construction lines. Then you can complete the rectangle with 2 "normal lines. This will maintain the parametric nature.
Great video, well beyond my pay grade
That heat sink looks optimized for surviving rugged handling rather than for peak thermal performance. #intriguing
Jim's videos
Probably for an unvented application inside something where there’s no fan to move air around it. A large block to act as a thermal mass works better than a finned one in applications like that.
5:57 The WOC was rather too small. You need to cut the chips, not smear the aluminum around or weld it to the cutter. And some mist coolant always helps with aluminum.
If you've got aluminum chips welded to your tool, throw it in some lye, the lye will breakdown the aluminum and leave the tool alone.
We use full depth slotting all day every day in our job job. WAY less wear and tear on the machines servos and screws and way less programming and in aluminum with carbide?... who cares. OR like John said in a past video, use the largest tool you can? How about 5/16" tool, 1 pass rough, 1 pass on each side .001" cleanup.... 3 passes would take about 30 seconds.
Thanks for metric info....
use Lye/Sodium Hydroxide to clean the alu off endmills
Don't bottom the drill in the chuck before tightening, and also don't chuck on the flutes, unless you like broken drills. (Think about it: the drill tip applies torque to the drill shaft, trying to untwist the flutes. This causes them to expand in diameter a small amount. This causes a stress point at the place the hardened flute contacts the tip of the chuck jaw, and can chip the flute. This can lead to a fracture and break the drill off at the end of the chuck jaws.)
On your radius, you could also invest in some uh... radius tools? So 1 pass around the part and its done. Tool paid for itself in 2 jobs.
Thanks for the "rest of the world" units! :)
you mean most of the world hahah
Never heard of Coby monitors ??
Changing the toolpath in Fusion and putting it onto the Tormach surely takes much longer than just running it the full slot again...
For this part. It becomes relevant when you break a tool at the end of a much longer operation.
dcraig4
Cept usually much longer operations have far more complex geometry and there’s no good way of telling just what was and wasn’t cut.
This would be useful maybe if it was a tough material that had to be machined slowly. But I don’t see it being that useful to do.
So tell me what you would do if you broke a tool 3/4 of the way through a 6 hour operation.
dcraig4
Restart the program from the broken tool... what program has a 6 hour long single tool path??
A finishing toolpath for a large part with complex geometry, for one...
If you see that kind of machining times on a simple, shallow open slot. You should do a sanity check and think again what's going on. Compare the slot length and your feed rate, does it make any sense? Absolutely not. It's absurd.
Stop being afraid to take a cut your videos are great just got to take a cut
Don't throw that endmill away, it is a perfect candidate to be resharpened by a shop that does that.
I did everything you said and it doesn't allow me still to do anything on the flip side..... I hate this damn Program
10:02 this is like threading a needle
Why not just contour the slots leaving .01 on the walls and the floor? That is, take it all in one full depth leaving .01. I would take a full depth using all 180deg of the cutter.
For the slotting why the complex tool path just 3/16 cutter feed the f outta it do yuor offset and feed back....no?
Use 1 or "O" flute tools to keep chip welding aluminum particularly in the absence of flood coolant. Aluminum can actually be machined most effectively at 3000SFM but it is absolutely necessary to have 1 flute tools to make that kind of cut sustainable in the absence of flood coolant but at more conventional SFM which you are utilizing it is also surprisingly advantageous to use 1 flute tools for aluminum machining. Check out datron CNC, they make their own 1 flute tools some of which feature patented special geometries, but many of the less expensive 1 flute endmills perform well for this application.
Eh, single flute end mills have their place, but they're are kind of a specialty thing, if I'm not mistaken. They have better chip evacuation and can be fed slower if you need to run at a high RPM. But if you don't really need those features then you're probably going to remove more material by feeding a three flute cutter three times as fast.
As far as proper surface speed, I've never seen a company recommending their carbide tools be run at 3000 SFM in aluminum. That's more in the range of what diamond cutters want. You'd also need close to 50k RPM on your spindle to get that kind of speed out of a 1/4" cutter like they're using here.
Heat sink? Really? And still not cutting a decent chip, I see. ;D
CANT YOU DRAW A RECTANGLE TO FINNISH THAT AREA?
Too much work corner rounding tool
Why bother re cramming the part just adjust feed and WOC and run it again
Lol sloting it would be faster doe
In this case slotting would have been far faster and more reliable.
"Horizontal" fillets are a great intellectual exercise but a massive waste of time on 99% of parts.
Wasted 5 minutes to save 40 seconds... hmmm