The “Shame” of Bluffing in Poker
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Bart talks through a hand with a caller that seems to be in an all too familiar spot with pocket jacks facing heavy pressure on the river.
If you want to submit to be on the call-in show read instructions for submission here: crushlivepoker....
Keep learning with me! If you want to improve your live win-rate checkout the best training site for NL cash games in the business, Crush Live Poker: bit.ly/3JGJjY4.
Join the CLP Discord community and follow our socials:
► / discord
► / crushlivepoker
► / crushlivepoker
► / crushlivepoker
On this river do you think you would find yourself making the laydown or closing your eyes and throwing in the chips?
Probably throwing it in. I have seen so many people on a weird two pair board hold an ace and think it's good most of the time, or at worst, chopping. If he has the queen, good for him.
Seems close but I tend toward calling down on double-paired boards especially here where raise makes very little sense from hero (meaning you can't count as many bluff raises as defends.)
Not great to have a club; if I had a lower pair with a club I would definitely tend toward pitching it. But how much Qx do we really have here out of position? We can't just rely on that and our 6x I don't think.
Wouldn't it be more profitable in the long run to make the decision to fold after the flop (if you're just going to make the laydown after the river)?
At my home game there are people I fold against and those I call. But in truth the nittiest ones I would fold against have a very tight 3-betting range of 100% premiums, so they only reach the river in this manner when they have AQs or KQs, and even then i am not sure they 3-bet those hands. So mostly I’m calling.
At the casino, with a player I never saw before, I might be folding.
Do you beat many value hands he could get here with and he bets half pot? Not really.
Is there busted draws? No.
Does he bluff enough? Don't know.
Is he capable of turning a marginal hand into a bluff? Don't know.
Summary. 2 no and 2 don't knows equals a fold.
Caller here. Not to be results oriented but the villain saw this video, just told me he has QTs for the boat. Still Think it’s probably one of the best hands to call with and should have called but yeah turns out he had the goods.
I don't believe it unless I see it. He could be saying that to throw you off in the future
Nice
it was me. I had 99.
Hi caller. Listener here.
Bart, your comment about shame in bluffing is really insightful and highlights something I've tried to do in the game I play in. If I get to showdown with anything more than a hunch that I might have the best hand, I just table my cards. I see so many grinders trying to make sure they get every bit of information from their opponent and forgetting the long game of poker. Poker is a social game people. Don't be anti-social, especially with the recreational players. When you shame them by forcing them to table a bad bluff all that happens is you discourage them and others from taking those lines against you.
I disagree, look it like this: if you call what appears to be a bluff and they get all squirmish and don't want to show (or muck) their bluff hand, and you insist they show or muck, chances are they aren't going to bluff you again for the rest of the session. So you can counter-exploit the hell out of them by assuming they are super-value-heavy when they bet you.
Wow you’re advice is the opposite of what you should do. You should always make them show and the advantages are obvious you can’t tilt them and they will be less likely to bluff you in the future.
@@TheTree1 Do you realize that when people are bluffing, by definition, they are putting money in the pot with what they believe is the worst hand? Why would you want to try to stop someone from doing that?
@@intrepidus3378 because it’s way easier to know they always have it, meaning you can just always fold when they bet.
@@intrepidus3378 If you get a player to never bluff you, they are easy as hell to play against. You'll get tons of free cards when you're drawing and easy spots when they bet.
Love that you're making it a teachable moment... "I'd rather bet with KK v AA do you know why?". I think you have a great teaching ability that helps players think about the game.
Thank you sir! Bart
He didn't say that.
@@Ohrami it basically got to that point, so whatever. commenter was summarizing, Dwight.
@@daveythehand4964 No, he just wrote it incorrectly because he misremembered or something. It wasn't a summarizing error.
@@Ohrami whatever helps you sleep at night. most normal people get what he's saying
I feel like the 1/3-1/2-1/2 line is really underbluffed so I don’t mind the fold.
Damn straight! You nailed it about online bluffs that people would be too ashamed to try live. 100% correct on this one.
I would call here thinking my opponent is betting ace high.
Ha me too and we both would have lost to his QT. 😮💨
@@NO--BS. why is this so relatable 😂😭
Nutty fold here with JJ. We didn't 4-bet so, other than Qx and 6x, JJ is literally our best hand. I guess we're going to have a lot of Qx that we play this way though so maybe it's not too bad.
More than the shame angle I think its the speed of online. When you bluff and get caught its over so quick that it doesn't matter. Live it takes forever to get on to the next. The way some of the these cats dress and operate in poker rooms around here. I think they have no shame.
Omg, the look on your face when he said he folded, lol lol lol.... like u ordered a steak and they brought you a corn dog. "Wtf is this?"
It probably seems nitty but I would fold too. And I totally get y'alls thinking on why a call would also make sense. But I've personally just been spewey lately and I'm trying to break myself of always worrying about getting bluffed.
Just about anything he could have that connects with this board beats me.
Call and fold are both fine imo.
@@edwardmauer7442 If you're trying to keep to something close to MDF to be less exploitable then JJ HAS to be a call because it's the best non-boat hand we can ever have. But if you don't care about MDF because you don't think your opponent is capable of exploiting you then you probably have enough Qx as played to just fold all non-boats. Personally, against a guy who has been 3-betting a lot I would lean toward calling because he could show up with random garbage here. It's funny because you often here folding referred to as "respecting" somebody but anybody who understands poker knows that over-folding to somebody is actually a show of disrespect. It says "I don't think you're good enough to be bluffing me."
@@connman8d617 I don't really use/think about MDF, though I understand and respect the concept. I just think about my specific hand, and how that stacks up against all of villain's potential holdings and then factor in pot odds.
In this spot, deciding between a call or fold would depend on my read of villain. The better and/or more aggro he is the more inclined I am to call. Villain 3betting wide is good info to have, but honestly I'm not sure that helps us as I think there's a fairly high concentration of Q in a wide 3betting range, different from like let's say K. I like your last point though haha.
4-betting pre makes this easier. You have the 4th best hand in poker. He is wide. If he 5-bet jams on you, you can probably fold. If not, you get rid of all that shit like kqo that he's 3-betting, and if he decides to set mine and misses, you pick it up on the flop with 1/4 pot bet.
Very nitpicky thing but - I think you mean "complement" instead of "reciprocal" fraction when discussing MDF at 11:30. Reciprocal means the denominator and numerator flip, so the reciprocal of 1/3 is 3/1, the reciprocal of 2/3 is 3/2, etc. The complement of a fraction is 1- the fraction, so the complement of 1/5 is 4/5, and in the example you used here, the complement of 1/3 (33%) is 2/3 (66%).
Good point.
Hmm.. I didn't know that. Similar to the misuse of "variance" and "monotone" to represent certain poker things I actually think that people would understand reciprocal in this context, even though not technically correct, more than using complement. --Bart
Love Bart's face at 12:31. lol Classic! Love your channel, Bart. Great insights and analysis as always!
Great point that most A highs will check this all day, totally player dependant but obviously looks like a Q or nothing... probably a good fold against a guy who is 3 betting about all broadway Qx but one big thing about online and playing on Pokerrrr2 myself a lot if I have a value hand and river 50% pot is 300 or so I like to make it a couple dollars shorter (like 298 is perfect for value) just because it seems like less especially to the eye online. Tough spot.
I think he could easily bluff an ace. Hero obviously has an ace beat after calling half pot on two streets. I’d bet it’s a bluff half the time and a Queen 45% of time and kings or aces 5% of time. Bet sizing on turn and riv feels like Queen or nothing.
When I saw the title I was like "oh gosh this is probably gonna be a Q high flop" lolol
There is shame online yes but also there is 10tables so you can play like a nit easyer. Good fold.
Yup and when ur 1 tabling live and you check to someone on the river they often have no choice but to bluff or give up.
@@fastfunpokerjamie124 but they wont bluff because=shame
Just played a similar hand last night and got stacked by A-Q and felt like a dumbass
Villain had it in my opinion. Nice fold. 3 streets of 1/3 - 1/2 - 1/2 is an insane bluff. If he got it through good on him.
You don't think villain could play 88-TT like this? I do.
Not an insane bluff it’s a good bluff imo if you get anything but a full house to fold river. I’d call I think he bluffs more than 25% of time here all day
@@windy6455 I would rather say he value owns himself 25÷ of the time. I can easilly see 77+ take this line. Especially this bet sizing smells like value.
Really good content and I appreciated a lot, thank you Bart
the second Q is also good for A high or any other middle pair like packet 8s, 9s, and 10s
The questions is really what hand/s is he triple barreling for 1/2 pot that isn’t value ? 1/2 pot has to think it’s getting called here so I think you can fold. 2/3 river bet looks bluffy or a larger sizing trying to get the A chop to fold.
I always embraced that shit... I mean my strategy is always trying to get a maniac image so I guess it comes with the territory
1/3 450 effective, I have AcJs in +1, UTG limps I raise to 12, button and UTG call. Flop is Ah Kc 4h, UTG checks, I bet 15 button raises to 45, UTG folds I call. Turn 7d. I check, button all in for 375. I fold. Is this a call?
depends on the player, is he the type that might do this with a turned set? He doesn't have AK, prob not AQ either so unless he hit a set of sevens or some K7 suited I think you can call.
@@mola4everyourz Yeah it wad my first time playing with him and pretty early in the session so I didn't have any kind of reads on him
Is this a repost?
Might have misclicked
Could be I also think I heard this already somewhere.
sigh
Another great review and analysis
Jacks are a majority 4bet in a BVB war but can't say calling the 3 bet was a mistake as you should call 30 to 35% of the time
great content thanks Bart
He’s almost certainly bluffing more than 25% of time. I’d bet that atleast half the time it’s a bluff. The bet sizing on turn and riv says Queen or bluff all day, I think average person will check or bet small on river with aces and kings, probably bet less than half on turn too. and how many Queen combos does he even after that he 3 bets, with two queens on board?
I think that there's a few things I know I personally disagree with. Why are we check raising with 56dd here? People at low stakes don't stab at flops with a wide enough range, you're getting called by a Q all the time which consists of most of villain's range.
Also, I think on the river its an obvious fold. Villain isn't triple barreling with anything worse than a Q because they know that hero has lots of Q in their range as well and tripling off with air is stack suicide. I think even KK checks the river.
This is one of those spots where we can completely forgo MDF and balance because our opponents are going to be so heavily weighted towards value. Also thought that the comment about calling against an unknown player because unknown players are the ones least likely to run complicated triple barrel bluffs.
I think this is one of those videos I kinda disagree quite a bit with when talking about unbalanced low limit live players.
regarding the discussion of raising flop with 56...i always thought hero can never raise this flop (except for exploiting w/ value) because of the massive range and nut advantage villain has. thoughts?
It's SB vs middle BB. Your ranges are very similar. Now, if we were in EP, raising makes no sense because the villain has all the 56 type hands and we should only have premiums
I kind of like" Donk" leading the flop
I think this is a reupload of a prior video
How much merit, if any, in turning the Js into a bluff otr?
What are you trying to get to fold? AA/KK? But you’re assuming villain would even bet those hands on the river. I think a lot of players just check behind.
I loveeee bluffing, gets the heart racing
I don't understand feeling ashamed of bluffs, it's part of the game and you get so much more action when people see you're capable of triple barreling
Come to md live 2/5 and triple barrel
Dont need to listen he's an Aggie this is going to be a disaster.
Would it ever make sense to check-shove the river, to get AA or KK to fold?
He still can have a queen
Not with a strong showdown hand like JJ.
You’re assuming AA/KK would bet the river. I think a lot of players will just check behind with those hands.
Prefer to bet Kings than Aces ..logic
. because you want to get called by Ace hi - ??? Really?
Lol used that app today
Aggie folded the bowl game too
I agree this configuration should be a 4!
To $280-315. BB gonna be 3 betting a wide range this deep in position.
Ace high should be folding turn here unless it’s like A10cc AJcc.
I think it’s a good fold. I think he has like 76ss.
Geez I hate when we don't know the ending.
Caller posted and said villain had QT
Why not bet out this fo-?
How on earth is this a call Bart? WE CAN EASILY HAVE a QUEEN. Right? I think that's bad advice. It's a snap fold imo.
Pre flop... five handed probably 4 bet. As played gotta call river but we probably just got taken to value town by QX. After reveal whaaaaat never folding????
Sad way to earn a living