30/70 Tin Lead Leaded Solder Is This Any Good For Electronics?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2024
- I bought some cheap Iiyset 30/70 leaded solder from one of the local hardware stores. There seems to be very little info, and no tests of this 70% lead solder on TH-cam, yet it is on sale for less than €10 for 200gm rolls - so here goes!
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Richard
5:25 thats an unusual approach to measuring something with a DIGITAL caliper but whatever floats your boat LOL
It is not unusual if you have cheap calipers that eat batteries like a fat lady eats donuts.
Haha yeah I'm quite unconventional LOL 🤣
I use 63/37 all the time. And I've been in electronics since 1970.. 63/37 is widely used in electronics for both manual and automatic soft soldering applications, it is also used in general purpose applications where fast alloy flow is desired. This alloy offers good corrosion resistance properties, has the highest strength of the tin/lead series 63/37 solder is a eutectic alloy. Thus it has a sharp melting point, at which it goes from solid to liquid state without any intermediate state
I always used 60/40 leaded solder since the 70s until sometime in the last 12 months when my last 500gm roll finally ran out and I found the cheap 60/40 I bought on Aliexpress wasn't particularly good. I then tried the Mechanic (or Classical Mechanic) HX-T100,again from AliExpress which is 63/37 and found that works well, though it is a bit more expensive. I'm not sure I can tell the difference, in use at least, between 60/40 and 63/37 solder. Either of those would be my solder of choice. I'm not totally sure what was going on with the cheap 60/40 an Aliexpress, maybe it was 40/60 lol
This one works well for me HX-T100. I can recommend it
www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003914687620.html?af=ler2022
@@LearnElectronicsRepair As others below commented 63/37 is the eutectic mix with the lowest melting point. Your solder might be used to make lead-free solder point into a kinda eutectic solder point by mixing in lead to be able to remove parts more easily and solder new parts in with standard 63/37 solder again.
@@strenter I believe that’s exactly what that alloy is very good for. Whether by design or not - I can’t be sure. But it sure works well for it!
Thanks, Richard. Apparently, 30/70 is used for auto body work.....the old body-filler version. Many still use it for that. Thanks for taking one for the team.
63/37 tin/lead is the eutectic ratio which means it has the lowest melting point of tin/lead alloys.Lead free solders have melting points close to pure tin which is much higher.
Adding 70% lead solder to lead free solder would form an alloy much nearer to the eutectic ratio so could make desoldering easier, as long as you don't use too much and go well past the eutectic. I wouldn't use it for new joints though.
When you looked up the melting point I think you got that of 70/30 rather than 30/70. The true melting point of 30/70 is around 250°C but it is tricky because the fully solid temperature is not the same as the fully liquid temperature.
I've used the 30/70, but it's been over 20 years. As I recall, it needed higher temperatures than 60/40 to use it properly, so most types of flux burn off before it can do its job. I had poor results trying to solder aluminum with it due to not performing the required prep work, or even sanding off the oxide layer. There's more lead in it, so high temps, lots of flux, and clean joints!
Weller Radiolöt comes in Sn60Pb39Cu1 and Sn60Pb38Cu2, cannot be beat by anything else on the market in terms of purity. Sticks like honey, flows like mercury and produces perfectly smooth, shiny joints every time at low temperature. Give it a go and you won't go back to Chinese. Addition of copper helps keep the traces intact and lowers the risk of cracking under thermal cycling stress.
As a Spaniard myself, I can confirm that the front of that is in unmistakable Spanish, Ñ included.
Interestingly, the WARNING textbox on the back is in Portuguese instead... for some reason.
I also have the HX-T100 solder. Works great!
I've been binge watching all your videos!.. Learning lots, keep it up!
I''m wondering if that solder has a specific application.. First thought that comes to mind is to the connectors on a CRT that is subject to a lot of heat
Interesting look at a ratio of solder I didnt know people used, think I'll stick to my usual stuff though for sure.
I got some 30/70 solder from "Extol" in a hardware store few years back, worked quite well for simple stuff like custom cables or simple component replacement but haven't done much besides that at home, also noticed some issues getting it to melt once again after it solidified but I always assumed that's just my cheap soldering iron. I will get some proper solder once I get a new iron it will be interesting to see how well will they directly compare. Also interesting to see people using it for soldering aluminium always thought that's nearly impossible to do properly.
sn30 can work very well for desoldering (for leadfree better than sn63 actually, at least as long as temperature control is not critical, as it will form nicely flowing pb~50 sn~49 cu~0.3 alloys when mixed ~1:1 with typical sav1 alloy) but it has poor wetting and much higher full liquidity temperature, its mechanical and corrosion resistance are also around bottom tier
I use Kester 60/40 .031 solder here have 2 large spools of it.
The 30Sn/70Pb solder you purchased from the hardware store is not an eutectic solder and is therefore not suitable for soldering electronic components. That 30Sn/70Pb alloy (aka plumber's solder) is designed for plumbing work like soldering copper pipes heated by the application of a flame and an acid flux like hydrochloric acid. The Google search result you got for 30/70 was for 30Sn/70Zn alloy (aka KappAloy30) which is also a non-eutectic alloy and is designed for soldering aluminium and is completely unsuitable for soldering electronic components.
I thought it was my soldering skills, which went shockingly bad when I tried a different solder than I was used to, and then saw what happened with this solder. Although mine is a different brand exactly the same glooping and none binding happened. I've put it in the bin. Time for something else. Thanks ☺
Roll off a foot of each and measure the resistance .
The only comment I have is that I never use Amtech flux for wires or connectors, I use liquid rosin flux. Amtech flux provides good surface tension on the solder to stop bridges on PCBs and SMD components. I also noted that the solder joints were kinda grey and not shiny, could have something to do with what an other viewer said that it has a fast solidifying property. Not recommended in my mind for general purpose use, however, does it indeed work on Aluminium with the right flux?
It's far easier to remove surface mount capacitors and resistors by using 2 soldering irons. Add flux, heat both end simultaneously, then lift off component.
I always use silverline never had any problems with it
A quick Wikipedia look at "Solder Alloys" page says it's not euctetic, that it melts at 255-257C and becomes solid at 183-185c. Apparently it's "Sn30, UNS L54280, crude solder for construction plumbing works, flame-melted, good for machine and torch soldering.[12] Used for soldering car engine radiators. Used for machine, dip and hand soldering of plumbing fixtures and fittings."
I recommend sticking to 63/37 or 62/36/2 (2% silver), good euctetic solders which means it transitions between states in a very narrow range around 183 degrees Celsius (179c for the one with 2% silver), and it has a nice shiny look when you're done, so you know if the solder job is proper or not. A bad solder joint would not be shiny.
Yeah I think I pretty much proved you should stick to 63/37 or 60/40 this on the video. Thanks.🙂
Was that aluminum or copper wire you were trying to solder? Just asking as these days a lot of sellers are passing off aluminum wire as "tinned" copper wire. Only way to know for sure is to test the wire with a lighter. Copper wire creates balls on the end of the wire whereas aluminum wire disentigrates after you touch the wire after one heats it with a cigarette lighter.
Tin has a much lower melting point and lets not forget about the increased mass of the lead. It will just need more heat on both accounts.
being bought up useing ersin multicore solder and point to point or through hole circuit boards i find that modern solder neads extra flux more so the cheaper stuff.Also the cheap stuff needs more heat ,i did wounder if they had renamed lead free as tin/lead.
Rob, try the Mechanic HX-T100 on Aliexpress if you didn't already - it's fairly cheap, 63/37, readily available I like it and it seems other here also recommend it.
Mechanic HX-T100
www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004766694477.html?af=ler2022
There is also this one that seems to be the same alloy, so maybe different flux. I haven't tried it but I will
MECHANIC TY-V866
www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004532993074.html?af=ler2022
Haha, well trying to solder those wires together made for a good laugh!
I'm always happy to entertain 😉
That's plumber's or body solder which is softer and weaker than the 60/40 tin/lead. The internet reference you looked for use with aluminium at was for tin/zinc alloy not tin/lead. If it's got flux in it, it will be an active, acid based flux and corrosive so will need very good cleaning. Avoid it. Nowadays you should only be using small amounts of lead solder during repair - it's banned for production work eg for new pcbs - so the price is not that much of an issue.
For solder pots?
Make my own for the last 35yrs. Tin, Zink, Copper, Silver, Lead, Flux.
Around here 60/40, 40/60 is considered Plumber's Solder, used it at school for soldering Tin and sheet Steel, but never Copper.
Isn't 30/70 used for, lead lighting, church windows and the like ?
;)
needs more heat to solder the two wires together , or use thinner wires 🙂
Electro-chemical Tin purification - that's what makes then good solder melting at 180C.
It makes good solder more expensive than this cheap one with melting temp at 300+C, where Tin was not purified.
I tried some cheap solder from ebay that was listed as 40/60 and being for electronics so I presumed it was just a typo and they meant 60/40 but it was totally useless would hardly melt even if I turned up up my iron to 400C and when cooled had a rough surface and fell off the pads with barely any force. After that I think I'll stick to more reputable stuff.
That's probably exactly what it was, there are a lot of genuinely braindead chinesium manufacturers out there that can barely follow a procedure let alone understand the reasons behind ingredients and ratios, yet still get put in charge of metallurgy, food additives, pharmaceuticals... Take the Taiwanese capacitor plague for example. Or the Chinese baby formula thing. Or hell! The entire great leap forward.
I think I got that solder too, just went lumpy if I was able to melt it even if added tons of flux..
Looks like the joint frosts up when the solder cools. Doesn’t seem like a good solder
Proper solder, good for (control) cable ends, motorcycle cables, bicycles, fishing lure?
Don't recognise liyset, dekton seems to be the current branding being sold in the UK
With regards to the cables, I heat up a big ball of the stuff in a thin metal container, or an upside down coke can(!!), with the cable and nipple in place, and dipped in flux, subermege the cable end into the molten solder, wait 3 seconds, lift, wait 3 seconds and dip it again. Then tidy with a file if you let it get too cold.
Cable making is a bit of a lost skill in the western world, considering a replacement costs between 6-20 quid
The only alloy I bother with is 63/37. That’s the true eutectic point for a tin lead alloy & makes for the best solder.
There’s a good wiki page on the subject, worth looking into.
60/40 is a close second, but I prefer not to waste my money on second bests.
I recently got sold some 60/40 that was advertised as 63/37 & I really didn’t like it. Noticeably duller joints than what I’m used to. It’ll probably end up being used for sheet work or put in the solder pot.
I keep many different grades of silver hard solder for various purposes, but when it comes to electronics I only use 63/37
Yeah I don't want to sound like a solder snob but Kester 63/37 is the only way to fly.
@@1pcfred Why would Kester be better than other brands, if the alloy is identical, and 63/37 doesn't allow for any ambiguity really. And Tin is Tin and Lead is Lead, by definition as they are elements. Is it a different resin in the Kester? I never actually used it so I'm interested. I have some Stannol Wuppertal solder that feels like it is possible a bit better flowing than the Mechanic. That has a slightly odd composition, close to 37/63 but with 0.3% of Copper I think.
@@LearnElectronicsRepair it's not better than other brands - but it is better than cheap Chinese rubbish that isn't necessarily what it says on the label. Decent solder is expensive - I use Edsyn FSW32 60/38/2cu works great and the flux doesn't leave a horrible dark residue like some of them.
@@Sydney268 I've bought the cheap 'chinese rubbish' and it did not work very well. As you will know at the moment I'm using the HX-T100 which is also Chinese and not too expensive (but not the cheapest) and I find it very usable. Have you or any others tried HX-T100 vs the Kester? Of not I guess I need to buy some to settle this comparison one way or the other too ,and probably for completeness I should try the FSW32 as well though I have not seen that brand before.
@@LearnElectronicsRepair tin and lead as metals would be subject to varying purities. Kester is just a respected brand. Although I cannot speak to what they're making today. The solder I use is pretty old. I got it from where I worked a long time ago. What I have is good. We did subcontract work for a company that made mil spec electronics and it was good enough for them. Only the best was good enough for them too. Picky doesn't begin to describe them. They were extremely particular when it came to soldering. Downright psychotic really.
Turn the temp up on iron because it has a high melting point. I have ended up with miss label crap. It is lead free if used to solder aluminum. I solder aluminum ever once in a while and lead solder doesn't work
I had it at 480C when I put the boost on and tried so solder the two wires. Also when I had the stubborn SMD. How much hotter should I set it?
You need it about 400c. Lead free solder crystallizes around 460c and once that happens it takes a torch to melt it unless you add more solder
There is a reason why some folks use only Kester... its not cheap though....
if you have another soldering iron (I have even used my desoldering gun in the past), using both at once makes removing these components easy, think of it as a poor mans hot tweezer :) Can sometimes be a little of an ambidextrous challenge but does work, even on those pesky SMD electrolytics (when you want to lift to test/reuse)...
Yeah I know that some people use this technique, You will see on my videos normally I don't but it's not like I don't have more than one soldering iron so I'll give it a try. Why not.
Yeah 2 soldering irons are good for some ics too like so8 and so16 where there are meltables nearby and you don't wanna use hot air - until you realise there is a ground pad underneath of course haha.
Tin is about 10 times more expensive than lead (per pound), so 70% lead solder is way cheaper to manufacture than 60/40 tin/lead
Does it have have flux core?
Yeah it must have, it smokes when you put it on the soldering iron
70- 30 was used before led free and toxic fumes were a concern. Your iron is not getting hot enough, the copper wire is soaking away the heat, you need a hotter iron.
Yeah it looks that way, though I'm not sure how hot as I had my T12 on 480C boost and it still wouldn't solder two wires together. And the BC3 tip is real good at transferring heat into the joint. Usually...
@@LearnElectronicsRepair That is why they have various size irons, you could not solder a car battery cable with your iron no matter how hot it got the tip is just to small.
@@tonysheerness2427 Did you even watch the video? He tries to solder the wires with both types of solders more than once - one type of solder works, the other does not. So you comment and say the iron isn't hot enough? Hahaha. Oh and btw it is 63/37 that was used in electronics before lead was banned, this solder is 30/70(not 70/30) and completely different.
@@Sydney268 He said at the beginning the higher lead content melts at a higher temperature. Also go back and look at him soldering the wire, even with his own solder it was struggling. I do not believe it was a perfect joint, a cold joint where it did not properly fuse together. The copper wire was to thick for his soldering iron.
@@tonysheerness2427 he was comparing 60/40 to the eutectic ratio 63/37, of course the melting point is going to go up since basically eutectic means lowest melting point of any ratio. The soldering iron was plenty powerful and hot enough to solder the wires - yes he could have done a better job with the better solder, but it was a quick comparison not a soldering beauty contest.
1
I was in Javeir last summer, brought the same solder from a chinese shop there, I dont like it for electronics
I never expect good quallity of those tools /supplies from chinesse shops (it's just some low cost chinese product with a poorly translated label), they can do some work but if you need something decent go to an electronics store
Look guy. Anything but a pure eutectic leaded solder with an RMA flux core is not worth it. Decades of proof do not reap doubt. Soldering is an art and a discipline. A pure eutectic is 63% tin and 37% lead or if it has 2% silver content, it has 62% tin and 36% lead. The RMA, rosin mildly activated, flux core is the ideal flux to achieve the best appearance, ability to withstand G forces, vibration extremes, mechanical and physical stresses as well as thermal inversions. It has been proven as the most ideal leaded solder period. While serving in the Air National Guard, I was exposed to this soldering discipline and became fanaticalized by it. My equipment is focused on the highest quality work so I can maintain this ideal ethic. Most don’t care, but the equivalent to this discipline is J STD 006, level 3 which is the highest of the new standard. No time for mediocre here, critical circuit rating! Only two lead free solders I know are considered, SNC 100 and SAC 305. Can’t verify them as lead free still has lots of problems to mend, but they will figure it out if they haven’t already.
You never know until you try.
Heya, well this cheap "solder tin" isn't working as we can see better take a known good solder
Bad quality solder like this has dull finish unlike the mechanic one you will find a shiny finish, the more dull the joint the more brittle it gets by time.
I have purchased some recently and it is absolutely useless. Never again
Some cheap solder wire smell bad, also it need flux to work well. Mechanic is good for work, also have flux with good flavour. Lol
The bad thing from mechanic brand is the solder station t12 pro, it didnt have earth pin connected to pcb, the solder handle also didnt have ground connected to pcb. Lol
I'd never bother with cheap solder. You've no idea what could be in the fumes.