I will definitely pay up for a memorable experience. I’ve paid silly amounts of money on seats at sporting events, vacations, dinners and bottles of whiskey. The common denominator is that I have enjoyed all of these things with people that I love and care about. The game will end, the vacation will be over, the food will be gone and the bottles will be empty. But the memories last forever. And for that, it’s always been worth it for me.
I'm not adverse to spending good money on good bourbon, but trust me I've made my share of "pour decisions" (pun intended). The more times I buy high dollar whiskeys with the results being mediocre, the more I make those buying decisions with a little more due diligence. Very good video!
I spend stupid amounts of money on high end watches, whiskey and Hifi. But at the end of the day as I’m listening to an amazing recording while drinking great whiskey, it’s all worth it.
I feel Erin was correct at the start. The longer I have been in the game the more adverse I am to spending secondary. My income has increased and I find myself buying less at super high mark ups.
In my short whiskey/bourbon journey have discovered that I get as much joy and experience from many bottles in the $60 and below price point. I have several $80 to $135 that I don’t care for. Moral of the story is to drink what you like regardless of the price. Don’t let peer pressure make you think you need a unicorn to enjoy “quality” juice.
I just started dipping my toes into the $50-60 range and my experience has definitely been worth spending the extra money. I still like some budget pours, but the jump in taste for that extra $20-25 is worth saving up for in my opinion. I'm also focusing on buying store picks to support my local shop.
During my bourbon journey, the maximum I’ll spend on a bottle has dropped down, but the minimum I’ll spend on a bottle has creeped up, too. I’ve found that there aren’t a lot of bottles I enjoy below a certain threshold price (with clear exceptions, like Early Times BiB). I’ve also found that there are diminishing returns above a certain price. That price may still be fairly high, but the knowledge that, at that price you’re paying for the rarity, not the quality of the whiskey, has often kept me from “wasting” my money.
Erin is correct. Price sensitivity is highly correlated to income level. Personal values are secondary. It doesn't matter how I personally feel about spending $100 if I don't have $100 at my disposal. You are making me feel better about overpaying for Eagle Rare tho.
I agree with Erin there as well, the % of your income definitely is a big factor. And I also agree that we can get desensitized as we get deeper into a hobby, and become used to spending more
I hunt mostly more variety, not price. I enjoy having a different pour each evening. And I enjoy sharing that variety with guests, regardless of the price.
I definitely get the point about desensitizing to the price you spend. 3-4 years ago I agonized over spending $70 on a Makers Mark Private Select. I literally stood in the aisle for 20 minutes, left and sat in my car, and then came back in to buy it. Now most bottles I buy are $70-80
Have to say this vid is in my top 10 from the channel. For me, although they can be related, there is a potential difference between an experience and a memory. Such a great topic to put in the parking lot for now and later discuss!
In guitars and other things the law of diminishing returns applies. The diference between a $500 and a $1500 guitar can be significant. The difference between a $1500 guitar and a $4,000 is less significant and for some it can be really hard to tell. Does a law of diminishing returns apply similarly to whiskey? what are the exceptions?
The price of whiskey comes down to serval factor. The brand, the raw material, the length of aging the type of oak barrel used, and the number of bottles produce.
This was an awesome video. My palette aligns with Josh's and you have to my wife's dismay, increased my bourbon collection. At 300 bottles I'm out of room. But when there is an open space I go back to my notes from your videos and buy something you liked. Keep up the great content. Oh, and you are a very lucky man. Erin is smokin' and the complete package. It doesn't get any better than that!
In my profession of Experiential Marketing we have a fav mantra..."experiences are more important than products." I would argue in this instance that the product (bourbon) is the accelerant for the memorable experience...think of it as a Two-fer Tuesday kinda deal 😁
Love you guys! Josh, your palate, based on your videos, is very similar to mine. I laughed out loud at your reaction to Dad’s Hat, both times you sampled it in Pours Unknown. I had the same reaction. I used to think that $200 was my absolute limit to spend on a single bottle, but I had a very generous pour of Russell’s Reserve 13 at a restaurant when I was on a golf trip, and I was blown away. I tracked it down in a neighboring state, and drove an hour to get it at $300. Every time I found it in my area, it was $550. I’m not sure that I would ever pay more than that, but you never know. I hate secondary prices, but if you find something you really love, I understand paying more to get it.
I’m mostly drinking in the $40-120 range. Eagle on the low end. Stagg Junior, ECBP and barrel picks through the middle and Shenk’s/Bombergers type stuff on the high. I have a few old carter, single rickhouse, Magnus cigar, Michter’s 10 etc that are about double that higher end number. I also rarely drink those alone…they are for special occasions or for when special people come over. At the same time, I don’t have a super firm budget. Ya never know when you’ll win a lottery and be offered the chance to purchase a Michter’s 20 at retail 👀. Couldn’t say no
I really appreciated this conversation. Kudos to you both, especially for doing this unscripted. I think it's worth acknowledging though that even if you're not 'professional whiskey tasters' you are established in the whiskey world in ways that tilt the equation a little bit. Going to bottle shares and bring interesting new finds is not something everyone does (I don't), but for you it's an investment in your profile in the whiskey community even if it's all very friend-oriented. Not a beef, just an observation. I do believe, too, that it's really about personal taste and budget tolerance. I can be persuaded to spend a silly amount of money on a special bourbon but I think a $500 putter is the dumbest thing I ever heard of.
I feel the ECBP and Larceny BP are the Porsche GT3RS while I’d settle for the Corvette zr1 or z06 Woodford Reserve Double Oaked any day of the week month or year.
Love this conversation! I’m older and definitely in the quality over quantity category. When I started my journey into the tasty brown water, $60 per bottle was tough to swallow. Now I’m stoked to find a KC18 at $170 or something along those lines. I’d much rather have a select number of bottles that I love versus hundreds of bottles that are meh because I’m only having a few ounces here and there anyway. Likewise, no car notes is a huge lifestyle changer. It’s been a long time since I’ve had a car payment, and that alone opens up SO many options.
I concur with damn near every statement made in this video. It really all depends on the individual, and the bottle. I’ve spent $350+tax for a Russell’s SR CNF before and if I could, I’d do it again. The memories I’ve made out of that bottle so far alone, dramatically outweigh the others things that money could’ve bought me. Great video y’all. Cheers! 🥃
I feel the same way about sharing a good bottle with someone. I have a good friend, who, for him, blantons is the pinnacle for him. I was recently able to make a trade for a blanton gold. He lives on the other side of the country, but I can't wait for him and his wife to come out here to share it with them
Im pretty a recent bourbon drinker, coming from additive free tequila for the last few years. Ive spent the last few months finding my taste and ive got it locked into Knob Creek 9 Single Barrel Reserve and Maker's Mark 46 cask strength. Both bottles are under $70 where im at and i just rotate those two now. I sometimes grab the 1792 full proof but im definitely not looking further into many more bottles. Basically high proof "regular" bourbon and a wheater will always be in my rotation. I can appreciate that its became people's hobbies, im into expensive guitars and amps so i know the rabbit hole goes deep when you really like something.
I was talking to my boss about this the other day. I remember when I thought 25 to 30 was a lot to spend on a bottle. Now there are certain bottles that 100 or more dollars seems like a deal.
The most I have ever spent was for a bottle of Jim beam lineage when we were at the distillery. My wife and I tasted it during a tasting and she was blown away by how different it was. We decided to buy it before even knowing the price. We still have not opened it, but we are very much looking forward to a special occasion to drink it
@@stuffandwhiskey we about had a heart attack when we found out the price. Considering we also bought two bottles of harden's Creek Clermont that day it was a banner day for us in a bad day for our bank account
I have actually noticed both, I am desensitized compared to when I started, but I am also interested in bang for the buck. If there is an ok bottle for like $50, but there is a far better store pick for $75, or a reallynice bottle for even $200, I am gonna spend a little more because the bang for my buck is there. So I will buy fewer bottles and be more selective to justify spending a little more. I would rather have one really nice bottle vs 2 or 3 ok bottles
I can count the number of bottles I've bought for more than MSRP on one hand. And the most I've ever paid for a bottle is $135. Would I pay more, sure, for the right bottle, but never at a secondary price. Can I afford more, yeah, but I'm not buying unobtanium unless I have a specific, really good reason.
I like the point of getting attuned to the price of things... which is partly learning how pricing within a specific market works. I also think its important to have a framework and I use "hobby" as mine. Lots of people have expensive hobbies and don't think much about it. Perhaps its golf or audio equipment or boating or camping or fishing or season tickets, etc. Most hobbies have gear and gear adds up. If bourdon is your hobby... its no different except you're buying bottles rather than a new driver or tuner.
Love the discussion! We literally did this same video last week... got lots of strong opinions from both the people who agree in the "quality over quantity" and the "you cant trash my favorite bottom shelfer" crowds. Such a fun controversial topic to discuss! Cheers guys! 🥃
Good discussion, Erin looked pleasantly surprised Josh when you said 250 was your biggest spend , I was shocked too. I think if you do spend 1500, then that’s a real test for you !! Keep the content going , real and life appreciative. Earning cash is hard ,,, I am retired now ,,, but you look for a unicorn to make a special memory or three. Whisky is for friends to enjoy for sure , cheers
I agree with your points. The one about paying more for the experience made me think of a different scenario. Growing up in Southern California, I have been to Disneyland many times, along with all the other theme parks in SoCal. Now that I live in Tennessee I have also been to Dollywood several times. Disney may be the most expensive, but for me, the cost is worth it because Disney gives me a superior experience. Especially Disneyland where I feel like it's so much a part of my childhood and I know it like my own back yard. As for bourbon, right now I top out about $150. My most expensive bottle is Jack Daniel Sinatra Select.
I guess I'm just cheap. I won't spend hundreds on dinner. I love going to concerts but I have passed on many because of high ticket prices. When it comes to bourbon I won't go much over $100 no matter what it is. I love Stagg. Paid $70 for the only bottle I have. But no matter how much I love it I won't spend more than $100 for another. But I did send my son in law a sample of it on his birthday last month. We shared a virtual pour. He had never tried Stagg and thoroughly enjoyed it. That was priceless.
I totally get it, my wife and I do the same thing with Vacations. We picture the money gone. Same for me with a good bottle of bourbon, but I always say life is about running out of stuff!
With all of the time, talent, knowledge, etc that goes into making good whiskey, it’s very interesting how little taste matters when it comes to whiskey enthusiasts
I am a musician and have paid a lot for some music equipment. When it comes to whiskey, this applies to me as a wine lover as well, I try not to buy expensive bottles unless it’s a special occasion. One thing you didn’t point out was buying the whiskey online. The shipping cost can also play a big factor as to whether someone will buy the bottle.
I am with you on the last point. The experience you have when you share a special bottle with someone is worth more than the amount of money you spent on the bottle. That special bottle might be gone in one night, a week, or a month, but the memories that were created will last a lifetime. That is more valuable than the amount of money spent on the expensive bottle and therefore worth it. IMO.
My own personal upper limit is $100 per bottle. I rarely spend over $70. And I never pay more than $10-$20 over the suggested retail price,... ever. Works for me.
I won't categorically say that spending hundreds or thousands on a bottle is wrong. What a bottle is worth to you is what it's worth to YOU. But out of all the stuff I've had over these past 2.5 years, some of it allocated or expensive or both, the whisky I've enjoyed the most cost $60 or less. I prefer this $40 Balcones Lineage Texas Single Malt that I'm drinking right now more than I like, for instance, Old Forester Statesman, Blanton's, or Balvenie Caribbean Cask. 14:35 What Erin said. 🙂 My budget requires me to be careful - the most I've ever spent on a bottle is $56, and that's outside what I can normally afford. But there's so much whisky ranging from good to excellent in the $20-40 range, which is where I have to buy in ordinary circumstances, that I have no yearnings for stuff beyond $60. And the few bottles in that elevated, special circumstances bracket aren't so good that they utterly outclass the cheaper stuff. 🙂
Josh, your points are well made. Indeed, when I saw the topic of the video I was ready to completely disagree with you. However, your analogy about people spending thousands on trips and gagging on paying $100 for a bottle of good whiskey (Bourbon or otherwise) hit home. My thing is traveling and I spend a lot of money on trips. I agree spending our money on things that make us happy is personal and relative to our financial situation. I will probably never spend $500 on a bottle of whiskey but I think your point about single barrels and store picks is probably the best advice in the video.
So far, my record for a bottle of spirit is $400, for a bottle of Irish whiskey. In the $200-$400 range, I have bought a few bottles of brandy, single malt, tequila, and rye. When I spend over $200, I am looking for high quality (of course), but also for something that is a unique and interesting experience. Compared to many other spirits, bourbon has a rather narrow range of expression, so it is hard to find this sort of uniqueness (especially in the classic Kentucky/Tennessee/Indiana style), and I have not so far spent more than $200 on bourbon. I have tried some of the fancy, allocated bourbons in bars and have not found them unique enough to justify more than $200. I have been fortunate to find bourbons for under $200 that are stylistically unique and interesting, but they have come from Texas and California. If I ever spend more than $200 for a bottle of bourbon, I have a feeling that it will be from a place like Texas, or maybe an unusual finished bourbon from a blender/finisher like Barrell. I don't know for certain what my overall limit for a bottle of spirit is, but I'll probably find out when I finish my existing bottle of Kweichow Moutai. I love that stuff, but the price has shot way up. Currently, it is about $300 for a 375ml bottle (equivalent to $600 for a normal sized bottle). I agree on store picks. I have been focusing on them lately. They can provide some degree of uniqueness, often without costing a lot of money. I recently picked up a store pick single barrel Teeling cask strength Irish whiskey for under $100, and it provided everything that I want out of a $200+ spirit. When this happens, I'm not one to argue with it. Everyone has their limits based on income level and priorities. For my spending on non-essential, fun items, I prioritize good booze and good food. I don't make enough money to regularly splurge on all kinds of different things, so I have to decide what is most important to me. When I'm on vacation, I'm a cheapskate on lodging (and will stay with friends or family members whenever possible), but I splurge at restaurants, wineries, and distilleries. I don't spend a lot of money on such things as cars, clothing, and jewelry, and I don't require luxury housing. For someone else, maybe fancy cars are important, and that is where all the money goes, so $50 is more than enough for a bottle of booze. For me, I'll drive a cheap car and drink fancy booze.
I have difficulty spending over $150 for a bottle. My issue is mainly that like y'all are saying "you can only rent it" Rare Breed is one of my favorites. I recently purchased my first bottle of Early Times BIB, and love it. I also just tried a bottle of JW Dant BIB @$15...it's a solid sipper. Great video and valid points.
There is definitely a sense of diminishing returns as the price of whiskey climbs. While $100 seems average for good whiskey these days, I can't see myself paying over $200 for any bourbon, allocated or not.
I feel like I could reply to each of these points with paragraphs of thoughts. If I had to summarize though, I feel like the biggest barrier to entry for being part of a whiskey community, including this one, is the cost of doing so. I cannot relate to spending hundreds of dollars on a bottle in any context and when that is shared with me I honestly never feel like it is worth it. Honestly in those settings I usually end up feeling more alienated by exclusive bottles and can't enjoy them knowing what they cost. Your car analogy is great, I don't want to test drive a top of the line Porsche because I know I will never have one. I think you land this topic well by focusing on unique and personal items not the rare expensive bottles. My limit is $100 hard, will never spend more unless I hit the lottery. Rambling response but cheers.
As a Irish and Scotch drinker I don't know much about Bourbon or Rye. I would be willing to pay up to 200 euro for something special. For instance the Glenmorangie Signet and the Teeling 18y rum cask finish are on my wishlist. The way I do this is to save some money from my budget and limit my purchases of expensive bottles to one bottle a year. Usually I order a 50ml sample before I buy a whole bottle; a more expensive Scotch or Irish doesn't mean that the quality is significant better. I took part in some blind tastings where the more expensive Whiskey's where no match for the main stream ones. Part of the experience in drinking whiskey is the story behind the spirit and the expectations you have when drinking a dram.
For me the most expensive bottle of bourbon I paid for was the Elmer T Lee at $300. The reason being was that I can never get out to a store during the workday to get that bottle when it is dropped. It’s also very very rare in my area. I wanted the experience and did the mental math of what I would have to do to get it so the 300 bucks was worth it.
Oh, we're having a bottle share and we're all over the board on what we're spending. People are bringing a $35 to over $100. We're the hosts and we'll be opening an Old Elk cigar cut, now I'm 2nd guessing that after watching this video. We will be giving away a bottle, not sure what it is though.
Love it. I basically agree and don’t want to type a novel here. I’ll probably make a similar video soon. If I do I give you guys a shout out and credit for it.
Vacation buyers remorse is real... invest in credit card points. Pay everything with a credit card and pay it off every month. You could average 3 percent back on every dollar spent toward travel. Spend 50,000 dollars per year and make $1,500 of free money towards a vacation. Makes it a little easier to justify.
I spent $300 for a Weller Full Proof store pick. Was it overpriced? yes. Was it the best bottle of whiskey I have ever had? Also yes. No regrets. Long story short, don’t feel bad for overpaying for whiskey as long as you have the money in the budget and enjoy the liquid in the bottle.
I’m gonna throw a curve ball here. Suppose Erin switched your Generations with Rare Breed without your knowledge. You sit down with your friend to share this “special bottle experience”, you have a great evening…share a great experience. Does the value of the experience diminish simply because you find out that you didn’t actually drink what you thought you were drinking? Do you tell your friend? And I get that you would likely tell the difference in a side by side, but I think most people would not be able to tell that the switch took place.
Good question. I'd say it depends. Having tasted so many different whiskeys over the years, and having something that comes across as a cut above like Generations, it's the bottle and the taste that add to the experience for us. Would guests share that same sentiment? It's difficult to say. It would depend on the guest. We always try to gauge someone's palate before we share something with them. We've had guests over that we've shared hazmat Coy Hill with and it was an amazing experience, and we've had guests over that we've shared Weller 12 with which was equally as awesome to be able to share, but the person who loved high proof would've felt like Weller 12 was barely an upgrade over water while the other guest had never had Weller 12 and felt like we were sharing one of the most special bottles we had with them. What if Generations was actually filled with Rare Breed or Weller 12 was actually filled with Weller Special Reserve? Would they notice? We couldn't say, but we'd know, and we wouldn't feel right deceiving them like that. The joy is in sharing the "good stuff" for us, whatever that may be for the guest we're sharing it with.
Josh ---- all of your points are valid. However, its going to be hard to convince many here in your audience while your sipping from a $25 bottle of Early Times!
In 2000, I paid $387 for a 25 yr Macallan for the sole purpose of opening it for our 20th wedding anniversary. Money well spent in my opinion. In 2003, I paid $303 for a 32 yr Oban. It will be opened on the day I retire (hopefully in 1 1/2 years). My wife spent $650 for a 50 yr scotch for my 50th birthday. Great experiences.
I can’t rap my head around secondary prices here in Michigan. I prefer to stay in the 40 - 100 range on my bottles. Still good bourbon. For instance, just got 2 bottles of ECBP C923 yesterday for a 80 each. To me thats not bad for a desired bottle.
I jumped at spending $150 for Stagg Jr. last October after seeing for sale for $400 all around me for years. I know I still overpaid, but I justified it because it was the lowest price I came across. Ever. Haven't seen it since for that price. Also if I'm planning a party, I'll splurge and get more expensive bottles for my guests to try.
I have been guilty of spending high dollars on bottles forr special occasions. Case in point, we have opened 450🦴 high end champagne to celebrate the births of our grandchildren. To me, seeing my boys and their wives expressions when it dances on their palates makes it worthwhile!
I get the whole experience with friends aspect 1000% as that's what it's about for me at this point but I also feel the longer I'm in "the game" the more I realize there's just nothing truly worth the huge prices and no absolute blow you away whiskey out there... I feel my palate is no longer progressive in terms of what would be considered "true quality". If you just truly love whiskey then most shelfers will suffice or check most boxes. Also your preferences change over time anyway (at least mine does) or certain things taste better or worse on any given day... so the longer you've been into whiskey, you undoubtedly obtain/acquire several "special, allocated or unicorns" so at what point is enough, enough? I have 100's of "special occasion" pours but don't have 100's of special occasions! Hope my ramblings made some sense 😂
Hey Josh! I’ve been meaning to ask you this for a while now, but I guess today’s video is right on the subject: did you guys end up getting that bottle of Balvenie 21 Portwood? You kept saying you were going to get it for your 40th birthday, and I know that bottle is about $300!
All great points. I stand by my original statement. Recently turned down opportunity to buy Stagg Jr for $200 and Blantons SBBP for $200. Most I've spent on a bottle is Coryvrekan at $100. It was worth every penny. Saw a WT Generations at Specs the other day. $500. Nope. I can't do it. haahaha \
Products and services are worth whatever you feel is reasonable. Where I draw the line is the excessive markup of anything "in demand". Concert tickets, whiskey, cars, houses etc. that are inflated due to the market puts me off. I'll spend a fair market value for something but balk at a premium just because the seller has everyone fighting for the same product then I'm out.
Disclaimer: I am a bit of an anomaly, so you always need to take what I say with a pinch of salt. However, I perked up when expensive cars got mentioned - a few years ago, when discussing things with colleagues, I worked out that I had spent the equivalent of an Aston Martin Vantage S on whisky, but I pointed out that I cannot drive and do not like the taste of cars, so it made sense to me... I have only spent more than £2000/~$2500 twice and over £1000/~$1250 another four times (my average per 700ml bottle is £112.17/~$141.03) and I have shared all of them (usually getting something equally stellar in return, with one exception that people find hard to believe: 25ml of Highland Park The Dragon 1961 for an 'airline bottle'/50ml in plastic of Old Thompson American Whiskey 'A Blend', because he was the first person to take me seriously, after several others had turned 'normal' swaps down!).
Never hunting again and boycotting Sazarac. I hate this beanie baby marketing plan. I’ll just stick with the budget bourbon, it’s actually really great! So much overlooked great whiskey. Stop chasing the hype! It’s not worth it!
For me given my financial situations and just for some reason feeling guilty about spending money on my self about 100 is the max I’m willing to pay for whiskey. Unless it was connected to doing a specific experience at a distillery or something like that.
On Easter I had friends over and we had some Blanton's Gold that I found at Bevmo for $200. Fresh crack. Not impressed at all, compared to the 1967 Beams Choice II that I got for free from an estate sale. I've gotten many bottles of whiskey for free or close to free from estate sales. You just need to put in the effort. Probably the same amount of effort you'd put into getting some allocated tater bottle. 😆 You definitely don't need to spend $$ to have an incredible experience.
Hobby purchases are impossible to justify. Either volume of value or overpaying for the new shiny toy I struggle to explain. I’m just glad I am not deep in watches, motorcycles/project cars or fishing which to me are by far the most expensive hobbies.
I’m fortunate to have $500 to spend on a bottle, but I only have that kinda money because I’ll buy an expensive poor on occasion instead of the entire bottle in that price range. However, everyone is free to spend their money how they want. ✌️
A lot of good points, interesting video. I’m a sipper like you. I will also pay up somewhat for quality. The point where I disagree, if a distiller wants $350 for his product, I’ll make a judgment on whether it’s worth it for me. Where I completely disagree is when the secondary market comes into play. In this instance the consumer drives the price, not the distiller (expert). It is simply not right that another consumer can control the price I have to pay for a certain product. Stop the secondary market, it should be illegal. Let the distillers drive the price. Does this make sense?
It makes sense, but there’s also the issue of the stores who mark bottles up, and the subsequent (often related) issue that demand for products that sell for premiums in stores or on secondary means that if they were fixed at suggested retail then you’re going to need a boatload of luck or time invested to obtain a bottle. Do higher prices suck? For sure. But at least the product is available if I wanted to purchase it for a special occasion (whereas I have literally zero chance of getting bottles like that at suggested retail as I don’t have the time to camp out overnight for bottles because I value my job and time with my family more). There’s something to be said for free market economics and things be available at the fair market price. Of course this doesn’t condone stores backdooring cases of bottles to resellers and splitting profits, but for the individual that gets lucky to get a special bottle that they aren’t particularly interested in, if they choose to sell it for fair market value to someone they know and trust to use those funds for something else they’d rather have more, that seems more than fair and reasonable IMO. Just food for thought.
@@stuffandwhiskey Great points. All this being said, I currently live in Canada/New Brunswick where you can only buy hard alcohol at the government stores. You suffer with less variety but you gain on price. I did live for 30 years in the US and have therefore experienced both systems, I also have kids in the US, including Kentucky, so visit a lot to fill the holes in my bar. But I can go in to my ANBL store anytime and get a Rare Breed or Eagle Rare or EHTaylor or Redwood Empire or Bookers off the shelf for retail. I can even get Masters Keep at retail when they are released and I can order in any bottle from any store for local pickup. There is no backdooring from stores and the price is fixed. But there is no secondary market. And if it isn’t available by the government, there is no way to get it, like Old Forester. The only availability we have is 1897. So good and bad. When we visit the US, we are only allowed to bring back 3 bottles between us or we have to pay duty. Duty and taxes and exchange adds up to an additional 300+% on the cost so not worth it.
Upfront I will say there is no way a bottle of bourbon is worth more that $150. Single Malt is a little different. They have greater value. My opinion of course.
I would say that if rationalizing a purchase comes to mind, you probably should lean towards not buying it. It should be a no brainer and a very easy decision to buy a bottle. if not, you may question your purchase for a long time. Stick to store picks and single barrels that are affordable for you.
You guys are missing consistincy vs allocation, I would rather have the rare breed vs the expensive, consistency is proven, expensive may not be able to find it for awhile .
Great video. Many of my friends spend easily $100 a week on crappy cocktails at the bar. I rather not and jist save that up and grab a $500 bottle at months end.
Truthfully, neither. Both are more than my threshold. $75 is objectively less than $300 though, so if forced to choose, it wouldn't be a difficult call.
I can appreciate spending more for a bottle that you are going to have a special experience with friends and family. That being said, I think that the secondary market has gotten out of hand largely because of FOMO and hoarding to make a quick buck. I understand free market and all but JEEZ, give it a rest... I am like Erin in that I largely WILL NOT spend above 100 bucks for a bottle. no matter what it is. And if it is 2wice the retail, NEVER. However, If I had the cash available and I found a WLW........ I would probably walk away with it. I would NOT leave the cork in it either. That would be a VERY special bottle. 1st grandchild, kids MAJOR job promotion, kid get a Doctorate degree kind of special. Sadly, for me, that would not be a friend bottle.
Appreciate the video. My question is: it appears that many times when you try bourbons/whiskeys, you are trying samples. Are you paying for these samples? If you are not, are you really qualified to give an opinion about how much to pay for said items? I’m not trolling, I’m simply wondering if a TH-camr, who gets to try rare bourbons without paying for them, is qualified to give an opinion about paying over MSRP for these items? The average person does not get samples. I hope you understand where I’m coming from.
We hear ya. If we’d never spent money on whiskey before then perhaps we wouldn’t have any frame of reference, but we’ve been buying and enjoying whiskey for decades, so we have a pretty long track record of experience. In addition to that, we taste everything blind and have bottles we’ve bought in the pool as well as samples from others, and we react to the pour and price before knowing whether it’s a bottle we bought or a sample that someone sent, so it’s really difficult to get a much more honest, practical, unbiased opinion than that in our minds. As for whether any of that makes us qualified to give an opinion, we’d argue that in something as personally subjective and individual as matters of taste and pricing, everyone is qualified to speak to their own preferences. Obviously some will disagree with that thought process, and that’s okay. All we can do is be true to ourselves.
@@stuffandwhiskeyI guess my main point is that, because you get samples of items that the average person doesn’t, that could affect your willingness to pay for those items, or what you would pay for those items.
@@_justintylerparks we don’t feel that way-we think we’re pretty level headed when it comes to pricing and sensibilities-but you’re obviously free to feel different personally or about our opinions altogether. All we can do is be true to ourselves and our own sensibilities, we think that shows through three years of content here, we think this is the most fair and objective way to cover something as subjective as as whiskey, and we figure as long as we stick true to that then the rest speaks for itself.
Very interesting conversation. I never considered the idea of "experience" as marker for whether or not I purchase a higher bottle of whiskey. Enjoyed the conversation!
Sight unseen or taste untasted is a big problem with whiskey that makes it hard for me to justify big bottle purchases and easy to fight the fomo for me! I should find a good whiskey bar but I kinda hate the bar scene in general!
Very well said. Big difference in feeling FOMO and making a blind purchase vs having tasted something amazing that’s also expensive and deciding to splurge. And we’re with you on bars. Not our scene. We much prefer to get nice pours while out for dinner at a good restaurant.
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Josh: "We've paid more than 500 for a dinner"
Erin: "We dont have to get into specifics" 😂😂😂
😂
I will definitely pay up for a memorable experience. I’ve paid silly amounts of money on seats at sporting events, vacations, dinners and bottles of whiskey. The common denominator is that I have enjoyed all of these things with people that I love and care about. The game will end, the vacation will be over, the food will be gone and the bottles will be empty. But the memories last forever. And for that, it’s always been worth it for me.
Incredibly well said! 👏
I'm playing this video in the background whenever I walk in the house with a new bottle.
😂😂
I'm not adverse to spending good money on good bourbon, but trust me I've made my share of "pour decisions" (pun intended). The more times I buy high dollar whiskeys with the results being mediocre, the more I make those buying decisions with a little more due diligence. Very good video!
I spend stupid amounts of money on high end watches, whiskey and Hifi. But at the end of the day as I’m listening to an amazing recording while drinking great whiskey, it’s all worth it.
I feel Erin was correct at the start. The longer I have been in the game the more adverse I am to spending secondary. My income has increased and I find myself buying less at super high mark ups.
In my short whiskey/bourbon journey have discovered that I get as much joy and experience from many bottles in the $60 and below price point. I have several $80 to $135 that I don’t care for. Moral of the story is to drink what you like regardless of the price. Don’t let peer pressure make you think you need a unicorn to enjoy “quality” juice.
I just started dipping my toes into the $50-60 range and my experience has definitely been worth spending the extra money. I still like some budget pours, but the jump in taste for that extra $20-25 is worth saving up for in my opinion. I'm also focusing on buying store picks to support my local shop.
During my bourbon journey, the maximum I’ll spend on a bottle has dropped down, but the minimum I’ll spend on a bottle has creeped up, too. I’ve found that there aren’t a lot of bottles I enjoy below a certain threshold price (with clear exceptions, like Early Times BiB). I’ve also found that there are diminishing returns above a certain price. That price may still be fairly high, but the knowledge that, at that price you’re paying for the rarity, not the quality of the whiskey, has often kept me from “wasting” my money.
Erin is correct. Price sensitivity is highly correlated to income level. Personal values are secondary. It doesn't matter how I personally feel about spending $100 if I don't have $100 at my disposal. You are making me feel better about overpaying for Eagle Rare tho.
I agree with Erin there as well, the % of your income definitely is a big factor. And I also agree that we can get desensitized as we get deeper into a hobby, and become used to spending more
You really got me thinking. I need to minimize the lower cost bottles and focus on the store picks and special pours. Thank you!
I hunt mostly more variety, not price. I enjoy having a different pour each evening. And I enjoy sharing that variety with guests, regardless of the price.
I definitely get the point about desensitizing to the price you spend. 3-4 years ago I agonized over spending $70 on a Makers Mark Private Select. I literally stood in the aisle for 20 minutes, left and sat in my car, and then came back in to buy it. Now most bottles I buy are $70-80
Have to say this vid is in my top 10 from the channel. For me, although they can be related, there is a potential difference between an experience and a memory. Such a great topic to put in the parking lot for now and later discuss!
In guitars and other things the law of diminishing returns applies. The diference between a $500 and a $1500 guitar can be significant. The difference between a $1500 guitar and a $4,000 is less significant and for some it can be really hard to tell. Does a law of diminishing returns apply similarly to whiskey? what are the exceptions?
The price of whiskey comes down to serval factor. The brand, the raw material, the length of aging the type of oak barrel used, and the number of bottles produce.
Great analogy!
This was an awesome video. My palette aligns with Josh's and you have to my wife's dismay, increased my bourbon collection. At 300 bottles I'm out of room. But when there is an open space I go back to my notes from your videos and buy something you liked. Keep up the great content. Oh, and you are a very lucky man. Erin is smokin' and the complete package. It doesn't get any better than that!
In my profession of Experiential Marketing we have a fav mantra..."experiences are more important than products." I would argue in this instance that the product (bourbon) is the accelerant for the memorable experience...think of it as a Two-fer Tuesday kinda deal 😁
Love you guys! Josh, your palate, based on your videos, is very similar to mine. I laughed out loud at your reaction to Dad’s Hat, both times you sampled it in Pours Unknown. I had the same reaction. I used to think that $200 was my absolute limit to spend on a single bottle, but I had a very generous pour of Russell’s Reserve 13 at a restaurant when I was on a golf trip, and I was blown away. I tracked it down in a neighboring state, and drove an hour to get it at $300. Every time I found it in my area, it was $550. I’m not sure that I would ever pay more than that, but you never know. I hate secondary prices, but if you find something you really love, I understand paying more to get it.
I’m mostly drinking in the $40-120 range. Eagle on the low end. Stagg Junior, ECBP and barrel picks through the middle and Shenk’s/Bombergers type stuff on the high. I have a few old carter, single rickhouse, Magnus cigar, Michter’s 10 etc that are about double that higher end number. I also rarely drink those alone…they are for special occasions or for when special people come over.
At the same time, I don’t have a super firm budget. Ya never know when you’ll win a lottery and be offered the chance to purchase a Michter’s 20 at retail 👀. Couldn’t say no
I really appreciated this conversation. Kudos to you both, especially for doing this unscripted. I think it's worth acknowledging though that even if you're not 'professional whiskey tasters' you are established in the whiskey world in ways that tilt the equation a little bit. Going to bottle shares and bring interesting new finds is not something everyone does (I don't), but for you it's an investment in your profile in the whiskey community even if it's all very friend-oriented. Not a beef, just an observation. I do believe, too, that it's really about personal taste and budget tolerance. I can be persuaded to spend a silly amount of money on a special bourbon but I think a $500 putter is the dumbest thing I ever heard of.
I feel the ECBP and Larceny BP are the Porsche GT3RS while I’d settle for the Corvette zr1 or z06 Woodford Reserve Double Oaked any day of the week month or year.
Love equating the cost to the lived experience, definitely helps me to rationalize my approach with a new eye.
Love this conversation!
I’m older and definitely in the quality over quantity category. When I started my journey into the tasty brown water, $60 per bottle was tough to swallow. Now I’m stoked to find a KC18 at $170 or something along those lines. I’d much rather have a select number of bottles that I love versus hundreds of bottles that are meh because I’m only having a few ounces here and there anyway. Likewise, no car notes is a huge lifestyle changer. It’s been a long time since I’ve had a car payment, and that alone opens up SO many options.
I concur with damn near every statement made in this video. It really all depends on the individual, and the bottle. I’ve spent $350+tax for a Russell’s SR CNF before and if I could, I’d do it again. The memories I’ve made out of that bottle so far alone, dramatically outweigh the others things that money could’ve bought me. Great video y’all. Cheers! 🥃
I feel the same way about sharing a good bottle with someone. I have a good friend, who, for him, blantons is the pinnacle for him. I was recently able to make a trade for a blanton gold. He lives on the other side of the country, but I can't wait for him and his wife to come out here to share it with them
Im pretty a recent bourbon drinker, coming from additive free tequila for the last few years. Ive spent the last few months finding my taste and ive got it locked into Knob Creek 9 Single Barrel Reserve and Maker's Mark 46 cask strength. Both bottles are under $70 where im at and i just rotate those two now. I sometimes grab the 1792 full proof but im definitely not looking further into many more bottles. Basically high proof "regular" bourbon and a wheater will always be in my rotation. I can appreciate that its became people's hobbies, im into expensive guitars and amps so i know the rabbit hole goes deep when you really like something.
I was talking to my boss about this the other day. I remember when I thought 25 to 30 was a lot to spend on a bottle. Now there are certain bottles that 100 or more dollars seems like a deal.
The most I have ever spent was for a bottle of Jim beam lineage when we were at the distillery. My wife and I tasted it during a tasting and she was blown away by how different it was. We decided to buy it before even knowing the price. We still have not opened it, but we are very much looking forward to a special occasion to drink it
Lineage is a great bottle!
@@stuffandwhiskey we about had a heart attack when we found out the price. Considering we also bought two bottles of harden's Creek Clermont that day it was a banner day for us in a bad day for our bank account
I think there is a jump in quality from the $20 budget bottles to the 60-$80 range. However I haven’t seem that same jump up to the $150 range
I have actually noticed both, I am desensitized compared to when I started, but I am also interested in bang for the buck. If there is an ok bottle for like $50, but there is a far better store pick for $75, or a reallynice bottle for even $200, I am gonna spend a little more because the bang for my buck is there. So I will buy fewer bottles and be more selective to justify spending a little more. I would rather have one really nice bottle vs 2 or 3 ok bottles
I blame whiskey for all the crazy money I have spent on things over the years, including a $1000 bottle of Pappy.
@@user-sg2cm4vq5k saving it for a special occasion in June
I can count the number of bottles I've bought for more than MSRP on one hand. And the most I've ever paid for a bottle is $135. Would I pay more, sure, for the right bottle, but never at a secondary price. Can I afford more, yeah, but I'm not buying unobtanium unless I have a specific, really good reason.
I like the point of getting attuned to the price of things... which is partly learning how pricing within a specific market works. I also think its important to have a framework and I use "hobby" as mine. Lots of people have expensive hobbies and don't think much about it. Perhaps its golf or audio equipment or boating or camping or fishing or season tickets, etc. Most hobbies have gear and gear adds up. If bourdon is your hobby... its no different except you're buying bottles rather than a new driver or tuner.
That’s a GREAT analogy!
Love the discussion! We literally did this same video last week... got lots of strong opinions from both the people who agree in the "quality over quantity" and the "you cant trash my favorite bottom shelfer" crowds. Such a fun controversial topic to discuss! Cheers guys! 🥃
Loved your video!
Oh awesome! I gotta go check it out. One thing is for sure, people have very strong opinions about pricing.
Good discussion, Erin looked pleasantly surprised Josh when you said 250 was your biggest spend , I was shocked too. I think if you do spend 1500, then that’s a real test for you !!
Keep the content going , real and life appreciative. Earning cash is hard ,,, I am retired now ,,, but you look for a unicorn to make a special memory or three. Whisky is for friends to enjoy for sure , cheers
I agree with your points. The one about paying more for the experience made me think of a different scenario. Growing up in Southern California, I have been to Disneyland many times, along with all the other theme parks in SoCal. Now that I live in Tennessee I have also been to Dollywood several times. Disney may be the most expensive, but for me, the cost is worth it because Disney gives me a superior experience. Especially Disneyland where I feel like it's so much a part of my childhood and I know it like my own back yard. As for bourbon, right now I top out about $150. My most expensive bottle is Jack Daniel Sinatra Select.
The theme park analogy is solid gold!
I guess I'm just cheap. I won't spend hundreds on dinner. I love going to concerts but I have passed on many because of high ticket prices.
When it comes to bourbon I won't go much over $100 no matter what it is. I love Stagg. Paid $70 for the only bottle I have. But no matter how much I love it I won't spend more than $100 for another. But I did send my son in law a sample of it on his birthday last month. We shared a virtual pour. He had never tried Stagg and thoroughly enjoyed it. That was priceless.
I totally get it, my wife and I do the same thing with Vacations. We picture the money gone. Same for me with a good bottle of bourbon, but I always say life is about running out of stuff!
With all of the time, talent, knowledge, etc that goes into making good whiskey, it’s very interesting how little taste matters when it comes to whiskey enthusiasts
Some, perhaps. Maybe the lion’s share. That’s why we advocate for blind tastings so much. Blinds don’t lie.
I am a musician and have paid a lot for some music equipment. When it comes to whiskey, this applies to me as a wine lover as well, I try not to buy expensive bottles unless it’s a special occasion. One thing you didn’t point out was buying the whiskey online. The shipping cost can also play a big factor as to whether someone will buy the bottle.
I am with you on the last point. The experience you have when you share a special bottle with someone is worth more than the amount of money you spent on the bottle. That special bottle might be gone in one night, a week, or a month, but the memories that were created will last a lifetime. That is more valuable than the amount of money spent on the expensive bottle and therefore worth it. IMO.
My own personal upper limit is $100 per bottle. I rarely spend over $70.
And I never pay more than $10-$20 over the suggested retail price,... ever.
Works for me.
I won't categorically say that spending hundreds or thousands on a bottle is wrong. What a bottle is worth to you is what it's worth to YOU. But out of all the stuff I've had over these past 2.5 years, some of it allocated or expensive or both, the whisky I've enjoyed the most cost $60 or less. I prefer this $40 Balcones Lineage Texas Single Malt that I'm drinking right now more than I like, for instance, Old Forester Statesman, Blanton's, or Balvenie Caribbean Cask.
14:35 What Erin said. 🙂 My budget requires me to be careful - the most I've ever spent on a bottle is $56, and that's outside what I can normally afford. But there's so much whisky ranging from good to excellent in the $20-40 range, which is where I have to buy in ordinary circumstances, that I have no yearnings for stuff beyond $60. And the few bottles in that elevated, special circumstances bracket aren't so good that they utterly outclass the cheaper stuff. 🙂
Josh, your points are well made. Indeed, when I saw the topic of the video I was ready to completely disagree with you. However, your analogy about people spending thousands on trips and gagging on paying $100 for a bottle of good whiskey (Bourbon or otherwise) hit home. My thing is traveling and I spend a lot of money on trips. I agree spending our money on things that make us happy is personal and relative to our financial situation. I will probably never spend $500 on a bottle of whiskey but I think your point about single barrels and store picks is probably the best advice in the video.
So far, my record for a bottle of spirit is $400, for a bottle of Irish whiskey. In the $200-$400 range, I have bought a few bottles of brandy, single malt, tequila, and rye. When I spend over $200, I am looking for high quality (of course), but also for something that is a unique and interesting experience. Compared to many other spirits, bourbon has a rather narrow range of expression, so it is hard to find this sort of uniqueness (especially in the classic Kentucky/Tennessee/Indiana style), and I have not so far spent more than $200 on bourbon. I have tried some of the fancy, allocated bourbons in bars and have not found them unique enough to justify more than $200. I have been fortunate to find bourbons for under $200 that are stylistically unique and interesting, but they have come from Texas and California. If I ever spend more than $200 for a bottle of bourbon, I have a feeling that it will be from a place like Texas, or maybe an unusual finished bourbon from a blender/finisher like Barrell. I don't know for certain what my overall limit for a bottle of spirit is, but I'll probably find out when I finish my existing bottle of Kweichow Moutai. I love that stuff, but the price has shot way up. Currently, it is about $300 for a 375ml bottle (equivalent to $600 for a normal sized bottle).
I agree on store picks. I have been focusing on them lately. They can provide some degree of uniqueness, often without costing a lot of money. I recently picked up a store pick single barrel Teeling cask strength Irish whiskey for under $100, and it provided everything that I want out of a $200+ spirit. When this happens, I'm not one to argue with it.
Everyone has their limits based on income level and priorities. For my spending on non-essential, fun items, I prioritize good booze and good food. I don't make enough money to regularly splurge on all kinds of different things, so I have to decide what is most important to me. When I'm on vacation, I'm a cheapskate on lodging (and will stay with friends or family members whenever possible), but I splurge at restaurants, wineries, and distilleries. I don't spend a lot of money on such things as cars, clothing, and jewelry, and I don't require luxury housing. For someone else, maybe fancy cars are important, and that is where all the money goes, so $50 is more than enough for a bottle of booze. For me, I'll drive a cheap car and drink fancy booze.
I have difficulty spending over $150 for a bottle. My issue is mainly that like y'all are saying "you can only rent it"
Rare Breed is one of my favorites. I recently purchased my first bottle of Early Times BIB, and love it. I also just tried a bottle of JW Dant BIB @$15...it's a solid sipper. Great video and valid points.
Great real talk!
There is definitely a sense of diminishing returns as the price of whiskey climbs. While $100 seems average for good whiskey these days, I can't see myself paying over $200 for any bourbon, allocated or not.
I feel like I could reply to each of these points with paragraphs of thoughts. If I had to summarize though, I feel like the biggest barrier to entry for being part of a whiskey community, including this one, is the cost of doing so. I cannot relate to spending hundreds of dollars on a bottle in any context and when that is shared with me I honestly never feel like it is worth it. Honestly in those settings I usually end up feeling more alienated by exclusive bottles and can't enjoy them knowing what they cost. Your car analogy is great, I don't want to test drive a top of the line Porsche because I know I will never have one. I think you land this topic well by focusing on unique and personal items not the rare expensive bottles. My limit is $100 hard, will never spend more unless I hit the lottery. Rambling response but cheers.
As a Irish and Scotch drinker I don't know much about Bourbon or Rye. I would be willing to pay up to 200 euro for something special. For instance the Glenmorangie Signet and the Teeling 18y rum cask finish are on my wishlist. The way I do this is to save some money from my budget and limit my purchases of expensive bottles to one bottle a year. Usually I order a 50ml sample before I buy a whole bottle; a more expensive Scotch or Irish doesn't mean that the quality is significant better. I took part in some blind tastings where the more expensive Whiskey's where no match for the main stream ones. Part of the experience in drinking whiskey is the story behind the spirit and the expectations you have when drinking a dram.
For me the most expensive bottle of bourbon I paid for was the Elmer T Lee at $300. The reason being was that I can never get out to a store during the workday to get that bottle when it is dropped. It’s also very very rare in my area. I wanted the experience and did the mental math of what I would have to do to get it so the 300 bucks was worth it.
Oh, we're having a bottle share and we're all over the board on what we're spending. People are bringing a $35 to over $100. We're the hosts and we'll be opening an Old Elk cigar cut, now I'm 2nd guessing that after watching this video. We will be giving away a bottle, not sure what it is though.
Awesome video and great explanations!
Love it. I basically agree and don’t want to type a novel here. I’ll probably make a similar video soon. If I do I give you guys a shout out and credit for it.
Vacation buyers remorse is real... invest in credit card points. Pay everything with a credit card and pay it off every month. You could average 3 percent back on every dollar spent toward travel. Spend 50,000 dollars per year and make $1,500 of free money towards a vacation. Makes it a little easier to justify.
That’s actually exactly what we’ve done. Definitely eases the pain.
Store picks for me are like an awesome local restaurant vs a chain. I have yet to find a “bad” store pick
I spent $300 for a Weller Full Proof store pick. Was it overpriced? yes. Was it the best bottle of whiskey I have ever had? Also yes. No regrets.
Long story short, don’t feel bad for overpaying for whiskey as long as you have the money in the budget and enjoy the liquid in the bottle.
I’m gonna throw a curve ball here. Suppose Erin switched your Generations with Rare Breed without your knowledge. You sit down with your friend to share this “special bottle experience”, you have a great evening…share a great experience. Does the value of the experience diminish simply because you find out that you didn’t actually drink what you thought you were drinking? Do you tell your friend? And I get that you would likely tell the difference in a side by side, but I think most people would not be able to tell that the switch took place.
Good question. I'd say it depends. Having tasted so many different whiskeys over the years, and having something that comes across as a cut above like Generations, it's the bottle and the taste that add to the experience for us. Would guests share that same sentiment? It's difficult to say. It would depend on the guest. We always try to gauge someone's palate before we share something with them. We've had guests over that we've shared hazmat Coy Hill with and it was an amazing experience, and we've had guests over that we've shared Weller 12 with which was equally as awesome to be able to share, but the person who loved high proof would've felt like Weller 12 was barely an upgrade over water while the other guest had never had Weller 12 and felt like we were sharing one of the most special bottles we had with them. What if Generations was actually filled with Rare Breed or Weller 12 was actually filled with Weller Special Reserve? Would they notice? We couldn't say, but we'd know, and we wouldn't feel right deceiving them like that. The joy is in sharing the "good stuff" for us, whatever that may be for the guest we're sharing it with.
Josh ---- all of your points are valid.
However, its going to be hard to convince many here in your audience while your sipping from a $25 bottle of Early Times!
In 2000, I paid $387 for a 25 yr Macallan for the sole purpose of opening it for our 20th wedding anniversary. Money well spent in my opinion. In 2003, I paid $303 for a 32 yr Oban. It will be opened on the day I retire (hopefully in 1 1/2 years). My wife spent $650 for a 50 yr scotch for my 50th birthday. Great experiences.
Cheers to 20 and 50 years!
Our brains are also simply wired to appreciate and think whiskey/wine tastes better if we spend more money on it.
Spend your money on whatever you want and whatever you’re comfortable with.
I can’t rap my head around secondary prices here in Michigan. I prefer to stay in the 40 - 100 range on my bottles. Still good bourbon. For instance, just got 2 bottles of ECBP C923 yesterday for a 80 each. To me thats not bad for a desired bottle.
I jumped at spending $150 for Stagg Jr. last October after seeing for sale for $400 all around me for years. I know I still overpaid, but I justified it because it was the lowest price I came across. Ever. Haven't seen it since for that price. Also if I'm planning a party, I'll splurge and get more expensive bottles for my guests to try.
I have been guilty of spending high dollars on bottles forr special occasions. Case in point, we have opened 450🦴 high end champagne to celebrate the births of our grandchildren. To me, seeing my boys and their wives expressions when it dances on their palates makes it worthwhile!
Good conversation!
Having some Early times while watching this video 😎 best budget bourbon in the game
I get the whole experience with friends aspect 1000% as that's what it's about for me at this point but I also feel the longer I'm in "the game" the more I realize there's just nothing truly worth the huge prices and no absolute blow you away whiskey out there... I feel my palate is no longer progressive in terms of what would be considered "true quality". If you just truly love whiskey then most shelfers will suffice or check most boxes. Also your preferences change over time anyway (at least mine does) or certain things taste better or worse on any given day... so the longer you've been into whiskey, you undoubtedly obtain/acquire several "special, allocated or unicorns" so at what point is enough, enough? I have 100's of "special occasion" pours but don't have 100's of special occasions! Hope my ramblings made some sense 😂
Hey Josh! I’ve been meaning to ask you this for a while now, but I guess today’s video is right on the subject: did you guys end up getting that bottle of Balvenie 21 Portwood? You kept saying you were going to get it for your 40th birthday, and I know that bottle is about $300!
Never did unfortunately. That’s such a great bottle though!
All great points. I stand by my original statement. Recently turned down opportunity to buy Stagg Jr for $200 and Blantons SBBP for $200. Most I've spent on a bottle is Coryvrekan at $100. It was worth every penny. Saw a WT Generations at Specs the other day. $500. Nope. I can't do it. haahaha
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Products and services are worth whatever you feel is reasonable. Where I draw the line is the excessive markup of anything "in demand". Concert tickets, whiskey, cars, houses etc. that are inflated due to the market puts me off. I'll spend a fair market value for something but balk at a premium just because the seller has everyone fighting for the same product then I'm out.
Wait, so no regrets on pulling the 500 for Generations? Have you done a review on it ?
There’s a Pours Unknown episode a few weeks back where it popped up. Haven’t pulled the trigger on a bottle yet but actively trying to find one.
Disclaimer: I am a bit of an anomaly, so you always need to take what I say with a pinch of salt. However, I perked up when expensive cars got mentioned - a few years ago, when discussing things with colleagues, I worked out that I had spent the equivalent of an Aston Martin Vantage S on whisky, but I pointed out that I cannot drive and do not like the taste of cars, so it made sense to me...
I have only spent more than £2000/~$2500 twice and over £1000/~$1250 another four times (my average per 700ml bottle is £112.17/~$141.03) and I have shared all of them (usually getting something equally stellar in return, with one exception that people find hard to believe: 25ml of Highland Park The Dragon 1961 for an 'airline bottle'/50ml in plastic of Old Thompson American Whiskey 'A Blend', because he was the first person to take me seriously, after several others had turned 'normal' swaps down!).
Great video!
Never hunting again and boycotting Sazarac. I hate this beanie baby marketing plan. I’ll just stick with the budget bourbon, it’s actually really great! So much overlooked great whiskey. Stop chasing the hype! It’s not worth it!
I am looking for quality over quantity.
For me given my financial situations and just for some reason feeling guilty about spending money on my self about 100 is the max I’m willing to pay for whiskey. Unless it was connected to doing a specific experience at a distillery or something like that.
On Easter I had friends over and we had some Blanton's Gold that I found at Bevmo for $200. Fresh crack. Not impressed at all, compared to the 1967 Beams Choice II that I got for free from an estate sale. I've gotten many bottles of whiskey for free or close to free from estate sales. You just need to put in the effort. Probably the same amount of effort you'd put into getting some allocated tater bottle. 😆 You definitely don't need to spend $$ to have an incredible experience.
Hobby purchases are impossible to justify. Either volume of value or overpaying for the new shiny toy I struggle to explain. I’m just glad I am not deep in watches, motorcycles/project cars or fishing which to me are by far the most expensive hobbies.
Very fair point. In contrast, whiskey is a relatively inexpensive hobby compared to many others out there.
@@stuffandwhiskey I say that but I know watches are next. Haha.
Spend the thousand dollars on your wife. Then you can always use that in an argument. 😅
😂😂
🤣 Take from a guy who's coming up on my 45th anniversary, you better put your wife, or you'll wish you had.
I’m fortunate to have $500 to spend on a bottle, but I only have that kinda money because I’ll buy an expensive poor on occasion instead of the entire bottle in that price range. However, everyone is free to spend their money how they want. ✌️
A lot of good points, interesting video. I’m a sipper like you. I will also pay up somewhat for quality. The point where I disagree, if a distiller wants $350 for his product, I’ll make a judgment on whether it’s worth it for me. Where I completely disagree is when the secondary market comes into play. In this instance the consumer drives the price, not the distiller (expert). It is simply not right that another consumer can control the price I have to pay for a certain product. Stop the secondary market, it should be illegal. Let the distillers drive the price. Does this make sense?
It makes sense, but there’s also the issue of the stores who mark bottles up, and the subsequent (often related) issue that demand for products that sell for premiums in stores or on secondary means that if they were fixed at suggested retail then you’re going to need a boatload of luck or time invested to obtain a bottle. Do higher prices suck? For sure. But at least the product is available if I wanted to purchase it for a special occasion (whereas I have literally zero chance of getting bottles like that at suggested retail as I don’t have the time to camp out overnight for bottles because I value my job and time with my family more). There’s something to be said for free market economics and things be available at the fair market price. Of course this doesn’t condone stores backdooring cases of bottles to resellers and splitting profits, but for the individual that gets lucky to get a special bottle that they aren’t particularly interested in, if they choose to sell it for fair market value to someone they know and trust to use those funds for something else they’d rather have more, that seems more than fair and reasonable IMO. Just food for thought.
@@stuffandwhiskey Great points. All this being said, I currently live in Canada/New Brunswick where you can only buy hard alcohol at the government stores. You suffer with less variety but you gain on price. I did live for 30 years in the US and have therefore experienced both systems, I also have kids in the US, including Kentucky, so visit a lot to fill the holes in my bar. But I can go in to my ANBL store anytime and get a Rare Breed or Eagle Rare or EHTaylor or Redwood Empire or Bookers off the shelf for retail. I can even get Masters Keep at retail when they are released and I can order in any bottle from any store for local pickup. There is no backdooring from stores and the price is fixed. But there is no secondary market. And if it isn’t available by the government, there is no way to get it, like Old Forester. The only availability we have is 1897. So good and bad. When we visit the US, we are only allowed to bring back 3 bottles between us or we have to pay duty. Duty and taxes and exchange adds up to an additional 300+% on the cost so not worth it.
Upfront I will say there is no way a bottle of bourbon is worth more that $150. Single Malt is a little different. They have greater value. My opinion of course.
$100 is my limit, maybe once every 2 or 3 years I will consider going over for something I really want.
I would say that if rationalizing a purchase comes to mind, you probably should lean towards not buying it. It should be a no brainer and a very easy decision to buy a bottle. if not, you may question your purchase for a long time. Stick to store picks and single barrels that are affordable for you.
You guys are missing consistincy vs allocation, I would rather have the rare breed vs the expensive, consistency is proven, expensive may not be able to find it for awhile .
I feel these videos are fights they had and now making videos of it. LOL
😂😂 they aren’t but it would be hilarious if they were so let’s go with that!
Great video. Many of my friends spend easily $100 a week on crappy cocktails at the bar. I rather not and jist save that up and grab a $500 bottle at months end.
That’s a GREAT comparison!
A question for Erin - would you be more likely to purchase a $300 bottle of bourbon, or purchase a $75 glass of the same bourbon at a bar/restaurant?
Truthfully, neither. Both are more than my threshold. $75 is objectively less than $300 though, so if forced to choose, it wouldn't be a difficult call.
Never heard of a car note. Must be a regional thing. We have car loans.
$1k for a bottle of bourbon? Only if I win the lottery.
How does a barrel pic with you work? How do you pay and receive the pic?
There’s a video for that! th-cam.com/video/Rauigqvh8oY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=gVY1EAARZ5HuI8IY
I can appreciate spending more for a bottle that you are going to have a special experience with friends and family. That being said, I think that the secondary market has gotten out of hand largely because of FOMO and hoarding to make a quick buck. I understand free market and all but JEEZ, give it a rest... I am like Erin in that I largely WILL NOT spend above 100 bucks for a bottle. no matter what it is. And if it is 2wice the retail, NEVER. However, If I had the cash available and I found a WLW........ I would probably walk away with it. I would NOT leave the cork in it either. That would be a VERY special bottle. 1st grandchild, kids MAJOR job promotion, kid get a Doctorate degree kind of special. Sadly, for me, that would not be a friend bottle.
Car note was such a new term to me. No idea that is what people called it. Is that a regional thing?
Perhaps. It’s what we’ve always called it in the southeast.
My max is $250. Though, I haven't gotten there.
Just no I’m not spending over 150 for whiskey. Regardless of how good it is. Just saying.
Cool great how to do I get nbc to ship to me they don't ship to my area ... Good discussion if I did not have means WT 101 and KC 9 would be my choice
There’s a video for that! Check around the 4 minute mark. th-cam.com/video/Rauigqvh8oY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=gVY1EAARZ5HuI8IY
@@stuffandwhiskey thank you
Appreciate the video. My question is: it appears that many times when you try bourbons/whiskeys, you are trying samples. Are you paying for these samples? If you are not, are you really qualified to give an opinion about how much to pay for said items? I’m not trolling, I’m simply wondering if a TH-camr, who gets to try rare bourbons without paying for them, is qualified to give an opinion about paying over MSRP for these items? The average person does not get samples. I hope you understand where I’m coming from.
We hear ya. If we’d never spent money on whiskey before then perhaps we wouldn’t have any frame of reference, but we’ve been buying and enjoying whiskey for decades, so we have a pretty long track record of experience. In addition to that, we taste everything blind and have bottles we’ve bought in the pool as well as samples from others, and we react to the pour and price before knowing whether it’s a bottle we bought or a sample that someone sent, so it’s really difficult to get a much more honest, practical, unbiased opinion than that in our minds.
As for whether any of that makes us qualified to give an opinion, we’d argue that in something as personally subjective and individual as matters of taste and pricing, everyone is qualified to speak to their own preferences. Obviously some will disagree with that thought process, and that’s okay. All we can do is be true to ourselves.
@@stuffandwhiskeyI guess my main point is that, because you get samples of items that the average person doesn’t, that could affect your willingness to pay for those items, or what you would pay for those items.
@@_justintylerparks we don’t feel that way-we think we’re pretty level headed when it comes to pricing and sensibilities-but you’re obviously free to feel different personally or about our opinions altogether. All we can do is be true to ourselves and our own sensibilities, we think that shows through three years of content here, we think this is the most fair and objective way to cover something as subjective as as whiskey, and we figure as long as we stick true to that then the rest speaks for itself.
Very interesting conversation. I never considered the idea of "experience" as marker for whether or not I purchase a higher bottle of whiskey. Enjoyed the conversation!
Fight the fomo!
Sight unseen or taste untasted is a big problem with whiskey that makes it hard for me to justify big bottle purchases and easy to fight the fomo for me! I should find a good whiskey bar but I kinda hate the bar scene in general!
Very well said. Big difference in feeling FOMO and making a blind purchase vs having tasted something amazing that’s also expensive and deciding to splurge.
And we’re with you on bars. Not our scene. We much prefer to get nice pours while out for dinner at a good restaurant.