I absolutely love it. Thanks to Citroën for bringing a car with Rolls Royce comfort aspirations for a more proletarian price. The market are filled with Ferrari wannabe cars, riding with harsh suspension setups and low profile. With most cars one cannot give granny a lift without worrying whether she will lose her teeth at the next road undulation. So bravo Citroën.
Just my take on it, but I think the reason for all the Gizmo's is they actually cost next to nothing for the manufacturer to supply and fit them and are very profitable when customers choose them on their ICE vehicles. On EV's there is an expensive overhead for the actual EV system, so they offset it by bunging in all those gizmo's.
Exactly my thoughts! R&D money has already been spent on all the “shizzle”. So they equip the car fully to make it more appealing, as the price is already high because of battery.
I think it's in the middle of that. It's also that the market is rich people now. And having to many supply options cost, especially at low volume. What Robert fails to mention is the posh materials are a part of the pricing. And the paint is often a higher end option. This is also a converted ice car, not a good chassis.
@@ferkeap The platform was developed to support ICE, hybrid and BEV from the start. You could still argue pure-play BEV is better for a BEV model, but this isn't converted from an ICE platform.
And that's why I never understood all the fuss about tesla. The smart historical brand will join on too, some (maybe even most) will fail, sure, but some will nail it, and they already have an advantage in infrastructure, relationship, brand identity with some people.. Not saying they will fail, but they probably wont' dominate anytime soon.
@@Yautah I dont think so. Tesla has better infrastructure with Superchargers. Also they are way ahead of their competition with technology and infotainment.
@@ZenuxHD Agree, the early argument was always that there was no where to charge your car but your home. Tesla's infrastructure made it possible for EV's to gain mobility and allow them to become viable for the average person. There were other just as important things that Tesla had to do to make EVs mainstream, but charging infrastructure was the one most pushed by the traditional automakers.
@@ZenuxHD I think you underestimate how many people would rather buy from another brand given Tesla’s poor build and quality control reputation. I’d rather have a Volvo, Merc, Audi, or Ford EV over Tesla. Not just because other mass market brands will be cheaper.
No, they make less margin on EV than ICE, so they're not making them expensive on purpose, they are trying to make them affordable. And they have to because of Europe CO2 regulation, it's less expensive to loose money on an EV than to not sell one.
That, and the fact that people don't put a value on the electric drive train. "I paid so much for this car and it doesn't even have a heated steering wheel."
@@CorwynGC Also, those entry level specs are not popular, they represent only about 1% of the sales anyway... People who buy new cars have money and want the full experience, the other buy used cars.
@@limeyjoe1632 the absolute lowest specs ones are pretty rare, at least in western Europe, and it's the only one not available on this electric C4, but even with ICE powertrain, only the most basic powertrain is available.
Prices are going down thanks to better, more affordable battery technology. But there's a HUGEEEEEE push against it from governments that are usually lobbied by the petrol conglomerate.
My take is, currently demand for electric cars outstrips how many the company can make. Therefore it makes financial sense to sell fully loaded cars for more profit. All the legacy companies are having to fight over third party batteries.
Three years ago Renault Zoe 40 could be had for £16,000. This year 2021 Zoe 50 is £30,000. Good to see cheaper battery prices are being passed on to the consumer. Oh hang on ......it’s the same car with a slightly bigger (but cheaper) battery, and it’s £14,000 pounds more . Think I won’t bother then, but thanks for the kind offer though Renault. I’ll go and check the mirror and see if someone has written”MUG” on my forehead.
Couldn't agree more about the way these are being priced against ice counterparts. Thanks for showing under the hood , always find it interesting to see how ice manufacturers are packaging the power train in the same body's as the ice cars .
ICE builders know that if they sell an EV at the same price as a petrol one, they do not sell any more ice cars in the future (as Porsche experimented with the Taycan), but the two big problems for them are: they don't have batteries, and they need to sell also ice cars in the next XX years. The big risk is most of them will go bankrupt this decade.
@@panzerkami2381 ... But can't transport 4/5 people....or hay baked to fields, or take pigs,goats to market....which is what the 2cv was designed to do!
14:11 I am starting to think Robert wants a Dacia Sandero or even a Lada Niva with no radio, no AC and the powertrain of the Zoe. Wait that’s what I want, I’ll be over here.
11:47 'why can't you buy this electric car WITHOUT all the extra equipment at a cheap price? I haven't seen an answer for that'. This is easy to answer: mainstream manufacturers do not have the production infrastructure (e.g. battery production capacity) to sell E-cars in large numbers. Hence, throwing in all this extra stuff they can argue for a high 'luxury price' and thus keep sales numbers down to managable levels.
Gadgets are cheap to fit for the manufacturer , the big markup is just an excuse for more money, my guess is they dont want to sell anything electric cheap because they cannot make enough batteries for high volume and people will just buy them anyway.
Because they want to exploit the rich seam of early adopters who are willing to pay premium to go electric, add in that thanks to the favourable tax rate they want to move people to a higher price point.
You can buy an electric car without all the "extras", trouble is they aren't much cheaper. The cost of the battery is still very expensive and that's the real problem. Throwing in lots of kit doesn't actually add much to the cost of the car, but makes it look better value. Removing most of the fancy stuff would remove about £1,500 max from the list price!
@@musclerent Would be nice if that was now the reality, but with BEV still making up less than 10% of the market they are still not the mainstream choice, which is why they are still coming to market with premium priced 1st Editions.
Exactly battery technology needs to be a lot cheaper, budget minded people have a difficult time wrapping their heads around paying more on the front end to save money in the long run.
Cost of running has nothing to do with cost of making cars. Batteries are much cheaper than 5 years ago. Manufacturers are charging customers a premium for electric cars that bears no relationship to the cost of manufacturing.
Well, I think there's more than 1 reason. Of course, you have the huge R&D cost that legacy automakers are investing in designing electric drivetrains and building cars around them. But I also think it's a bit of a Tesla effect. If you go back a decade, we had cars like the Citroën C0, the VW e-Up, and so on. And in comes Tesla with luxury electric cars with bigger margins. And now we see legacy automakers investing in those bigger margin cars because they know they actually have buyers for cars that expensive.
@@bluetoad2668 Tesla are not just skimming huge profits and banking them like other manufacturers. They have invested heavily in the Supercharger network and that has a huge influence in the buying decision, particularly when the alternative non Tesla charging infrastructure is so appallingly poor (at least in the UK). Would I rather use a Tesla super charger or try my luck with an ecotricity charger ? It’s a no brainier. On the R&D point Renault Zoe 40 kWh in 2017 could be bought for £16,000. Renault Zoe 50 kWh 2021 costs £33000. (Govt grant reduces that to £30,000). No further R&D done, they just fitted a 10 kWh bigger battery to essentially the same car and doubled the price. Tell me we are not being ripped off.
The reason you can’t get Evs with less options is because the “options” on a standard car don’t cost hardly anything to produce, they just cots a lot when selected. This is why adding them to evs is great as it costs the manufacturer hardly anything and makes the extra 7000 over the base petrol C4 seam a lot more meaningful!
I'd estimate a massaging seat at 500 to 1000 (£,€,$), and there's probably two of them in the EV. Not having them could be 2,000 cheaper. (I'm assuming).
@@hrford yeah but the point is it kind of artificially justifies the cost. If you could buy the same car with no extras it would only be a few thousand cheaper but would still be more than the top spec petrol.
I think this is because manufacturers think that EV's should sit somewhere in the premium category. And they do have somewhat of a point there, EV's are much more appealing for house owners with driveways. Especially in a segment like this, you would want to attract a person who is just not satisfied with their diesel 5008 any more or even comes from a higher segment, and wants all the new luxuries of a truly modern car.
@@hrford I’d bet those massage seats probably cost Citroen £25 per seat over the standard. Then they sel them as a £500 option on the petrol car. Give them for ‘free’ on the EV to mask the cost of the battery
@@MrKlawUK I saw that kind of comment in another thread. I'm inclined to come around to that thinking. It seems manufacturers might be making tons of money on the options. I guess?
SUBSCRIBE! LIKE if you're impressed by the e-C4 & SHARE if you think EVs should be more affordable Robert really likes the e-C4, its 'supremely satisfactory', but he's struggling to rave about it. It's a really nice compact SUV, good to drive, decent range and packed full of lovely features. But are they all needed? As with other EVs, when compared with their petrol/diesel counterparts, could they be stripped down of some of these add-ons to bring the price down to being more affordable? Does anyone really need their back massaged while driving? Make sure you are subscribed then enter our Great EV Giveaway for your chance to win an EV for a year and lots of other fantastic prizes FullyCharged.Show/EV-Giveaway Fully Charged is 100% independent thanks to TH-cam Memberships and Patreons. Without you this channel wouldn’t be possible! If you’d like to help support the Fully Charged channel and its mission: Become a Patreon: www.patreon.com/fullychargedshow Become a TH-cam member: use JOIN button above Subscribe to Fully Charged & the Fully Charged PLUS channels Buy the Fully Charged Guide to Electric Vehicles & Clean Energy : buff.ly/2GybGt0 Browse the Fully Charged store: shop.fullycharged.show/ Visit our LIVE exhibitions in the UK, USA & Europe: FullyCharged.Show/events Subscribe for episode alerts and the Fully Charged newsletter: fullycharged.show/zap-sign-up/ Visit: FullyCharged.Show Find us on Twitter: twitter.com/fullychargedshw Follow us on Instagram: instagram.com/fullychargedshow Timestamps: 0:00 Touch & drive! 1:14 Simple start 1:56 100% honest 2:28 Young people required 2:43 Shut up! 3:11 She's back 3:49 Back to review 4:40 Nicely appointed 4:57 Lovely features 5:38 Super adequate 6:08 Really nice interior 6:32 Roomy back 7:05 Heavy on the head 7:17 Plenty of power 8:00 Easy charging 8:51 Generous boot 9:14 Plain sailing 9:30 Button massage? 10:20 All the extras 11:09 Mini pricing rant 12:23 Under the bonnet 13:35 Reversing camera 14:09 Features run through 15:41 Sunroof! 15:53 Supremely satisfactory 16:27 Subscribe, support, join
I shall be doing an infotainment walk-through video guide on my channel of the e-C4 so you can also learn how to turn off the Sat Nav voice - it isn't out yet but keep an eye on my channel!
The quiet drive of an all electric vehicle is a stress reducer. Can you imagine cities without all the noise from gas and diesel vehicles ? I wonder if it would reduce aggression by adding a calming effect on people.
The answer to your question Bobby , is that legacy automakers have to hide their pricing strategy by overloading with options (that you are still paying for) to falsely claim EV are far more expensive than the equivalent ICE vehicle. Otherwise JoePublic might just leave them with 10 million unsold oil burners
One little recommendation and I love you and your work: - Always stat with the range (the realistic one) - Next, how long does it take to charge, - Next, how long much does it cost to charge from 0% --> 100% - Next, price! - Next, Warranty: For how long and what is exactly covered. Thank you
Charging from 0 to 100% is massively unrealistic. In reality 10% to 80% is all you will do in the real world. You won't be pulling up to chargers in turtle mode very often, nor will you be sitting on them to top the battery up to 100% wuthout pissing off other EV drivers waiting to charge.
@@FFVoyager I understand, but you would charge from 5% realistically speaking to like 95% at home and rarely on a fast charger. In which case, I would love to know how long it'll take, how much it'll cost, and what is the realistic range of driving normally, without cruise control.
very nice video, i am getting one in the middle of december and its going to be the shine sport version and in Red Elixier color and its really going to be great and i really cant wait for it, i am really happy about it....greetings from flemming hansen
Robert is the greatest EV Reviewer of the 2. He is enthusiastic on the small little details that someone might miss, but he's on it, describing the vehicles.
@@AshleyWilsonAU I doubt that very much. What's more likely is whoever delivered the car to that location used the sat nav and it was trying to route him back there
@@bluetoad2668 I'm way too picky and very particular about my car ownership and the experience I get from it. So in respect to that, I will not be happy owning a Tesla. That said, I like what Tesla have done to the car industry, I think it's brilliant. I do plan on buying an EV in the near future, however it's likely to be an Audi E-Tron GT, or similar.. depending on other choices.
Just listened to Bobby’s mini-rant on the extras! The massage seats on my C4 Picasso got me through my drive around Europe in 2019, I bought it for its comfort and it was well worth it; at my advanced years with a bad back I needed it! That’s why I’m holding out for the e-Spacetourer, when and if that might arrive, as we need that luggage space for touring.
The MG range is the no frills alternative. I would describe my MG ZS as boring but adequate. It's very safe and has android auto. Its a bit like the Citroen except it was 8k cheaper than that citroen. So if you want plain and boring, save some money.
Seems to be a horrible trend at the moment with ICE manufacturers, outpricing the EVs in favour of the ICE variants, it's a silly and damaging practice we hope to see the end of.
I think we must wait for pure eve brands like Tesla... and Chinese will come out with something so affordable that all the big brands will have to stop this practice. And some will die!
The PSA-Group definitely did a decent job with their current generation of EVs. They are no record breakers or head-turners. They are cars very suitable for daily life!
You should be considering purchase price as only part of the Total Cost of Ownership. If running costs and maintenance are MASSIVELY lower then internal combustion vehicles, the Total Cost of Ownership of the EV will still be well lower, EVEN after the higher acquisition cost.
Here in Denmark you can buy the e-c4 in the LIVE sku which only has basic feature like a standard cruise control and halogen headlights. No HUD, No keyless, No Heated seats, No sunroof, No parkingsensors, etc. So it must depend on the market whether it is available
@@ramblerandy2397 oh but it is for most companies, they are desperately delaying EVs because if they are adopted too fast it'll put a huge ICE shaped hole in their balance sheets. Thank god for them there isn't a mass producer of EVs disrupting the space for them, oh, wait.... that'd be Tesla then
As a cheapskate, I never expected to drive such luxury, but after a little driving in a new Kia eNiro, I am finding heated steering and seats very nice!
Robert probably has a very large warm garage he keeps his cars in, not the drive like we do where they get cold at times and its painful to hold the wheel.
No rear wiper? Really? I live in a country with lots of snow and rain, dust - am I not supposed to see anything? What good is all the high tech without a basic safety feature like a wiper? Will they next time omit the front wipers too? To make it even more "futuristic"? Otherwise, it might have been a great car.
@@musclerent not big enough. C4 Picasso has three full sized independently reclining and folding seats in the second row, and in the Grand they also slide a good 25cm. Extremely versatile.
Another software adjustment is needed: the cruise control's "Adaptive" feature remains activated at all times once the cruise control is engaged. This poses a risk as the vehicle may decelerate during overtaking manoeuvres under specific motorway conditions. Currently, the distance control settings are limited to approximately 3, 2, and 1-second following distances. Introducing an additional setting of "0" seconds on the same control would effectively deactivate the Adaptive Distance Control, ensuring safe overtaking. Kindly address this issue promptly.
My guess about the price/options is that they advertise "10k" worth of options. This may be true if you were to buy them. It probably only costs then 2k to make/add. So giving you 10k of options for only 6k actually nets them 4k, and helps subsidise the cost. The bare bones ev may be 10k more than the petrol. Add all the options and the difference could be only 6k. It looks better value. Maybe I am just cynical. Ah, I think Sergei has already raised this point :)
I agree Robert the old ICE manufacturers are front loading the extras to offset the loss of revenue from servicing I suspect, just wait for the Chinese to pull the rug from under them?
@@FFVoyager it's actually as good or even better, hard a quick test drive and the mix of electric silence and great suspension has almost tipped me towards getting one.
@@FFVoyager Other reviewers have noted the comfortable seats and smooth ride. One compared it to a BMW 7 series. Modern Citroëns don’t quite glide like a DS, GS or CX, but the special dampers they use do allow for a soft setting.
Thanks Fully charged for your brilliant reviews and head to head guides, I plan to buy used electric this year once this 'thing' settles down and all your video's will help me decide which one to buy
A few things were mentioned, when you get a longer time with cars maybe add: on route planning, display of charging speed (when am I waisting time/money ), car prepping battery for fast charging. So details of the electric car part
@@musclerent so far, I've generated 267kwhs from my gird tie solar in feb in ohio of all places. I got a quite a few more days to go. Last Feb, I did 427kwh in Feb.
Vehicle companies make a lot of money on options. I think what we're seeing is a camouflage for the high prices of manufacture with these expensive options which have an associated high profit margin. Manufacturers are taking the hit on the options profits to be able to cover the costs of retooling, battery price, R&D, the whole gamut. This is where we'll see the older manufacturers falling behind-they will be forced to take significant losses if they try to sell a less expensive EV-which they will have to do eventually.
I agree, the artificially high price is just to prevent sales. The gizmos are inexpensive to add and it would probably cost most of the savings to have a second production run without them. I like the way the speed control uses the traditional, and appropriate, two chevrons.
Do you feel that you have to speak higher of the ev's that you review in the interest of furthering their rise in popularity? I feel that often the reviews come across as being more complimentary than perhaps they are deserving and wondered if this is the reason?
Dear Robert, Thank you for your application to join our marketing department, I'm afraid your application this time has not been successful. Perhaps a course on marketing speak would help. Words like "very acceptable" and "who could get excited by..." and so on are just not what we are looking for right now. LMAO.
I'm very impressed at the extent to which Citroen has implemented loads of digital technology in this car. By digital technology I mean lots of confusing buttons that you have to use your digits to activate.
The gimmicks don't really cost the company much that's why they're bundling them in to make the price more acceptable. Electric components are expensive. Removing them won't reduce the price much.
I always enjoy this channel and extra much this video as the owner of a VW ID.3, because it is always interesting to see how a similar car from a competitor performs!
Not feeling these car reviews from FC as much as I used to. Seems to be something lacking in the writing. Too much time at the start on the sat nav, don't care, tell us about the car.
Good to have the car front heavy, fwd in snow or ice needs the weight. The basic C4 in Iceland costs 20% less vs the full Shine versin with 11 kwh charger. 22.975 pound up to 27.5 fully stocked
Hi, love your enthusiasm in these reviews. I would be interested to know a little more about ride, handling and cornering in the cars? It's important for me that a car is comfortable but does not drive like a wardrobe on wheels like some larger Citroëns and Vauxhauls I have sometimes driven over the years!
Because they don't produce fossil fueled Vehicles to compare against! I feel that the higher price in regards to Tesla is down to production costs due to volumes, this will come down as they produce more, quicker! And don't forget TESLA is THE Marque when considering pure EV! in my opinion 🤗
The market is also not ready. Most people wanting an EV would go to the fully equipped model. And at 2/3 of the price, a basic model (ICE or EV) is in fact very expansive.
Just done a test drive in Portugal. I am 6'4" (1.95) and have no problem in the back...but there is no sun roof. Don't want one, and maybe that is why headroom is restricted in RL's test car
To answer your question, I would assume the reason legacy manufacturers are pricing their EVs on the top-end first is that they are battery constrained and those battery supplies are costly because they are all sourcing the batteries from the same limited suppliers (SK Innovation, LG Chem, Panasonic, CATL). By pricing the EVs higher they are not getting as large of a loss.
Currently the volumes are there for variants on ICE, where as multiple variants on low volume EV cost the manufacturer more per unit. An example 2003 Range Rover all had a black sunroof switch from E39 . Land Rover design wanted clouded to match different headliner colors BMW said no due to added cost of variants.
Here in the US, I believe 275+ mile range is necessary... Anything below that range is just selling to meet a price point. Honestly, most people here drive 74-80 miles on the highway. EPA range is measured on 60 mph. US, we need more range to cross between some states on long trips
I absolutely love it. Thanks to Citroën for bringing a car with Rolls Royce comfort aspirations for a more proletarian price.
The market are filled with Ferrari wannabe cars, riding with harsh suspension setups and low profile. With most cars one cannot give granny a lift without worrying whether she will lose her teeth at the next road undulation. So bravo Citroën.
Robert "Turn navigation voice off!"
NAV9000: "I'm sorry Robert, I'm afraid I can't do that."
Lol
I watch Fully Charged preligiously.
And I don't have a car, need a car, or currently want a car.
They don't just do cars, there are some great pieces on solar generation and storage, and other forms of power generation ;)
You haven't discovered Netflix?
Ditto! I can never drive a car, but its useful info for talking to people who can.
@@grizzybear9111 I think that you are kind of missing the point...
@@grizzybear9111 i am "grown up" and i dont have a car... kid? Am I weird now?
"SatNav woman you have no authority here".
mute
Sounds like a song by Stevie Nicks. :)
Jackie Weaver voicing satnav - what a genius idea!
@@erstwhilegrubstake ...Stevie....mmmmmmmmmmm :)
Just my take on it, but I think the reason for all the Gizmo's is they actually cost next to nothing for the manufacturer to supply and fit them and are very profitable when customers choose them on their ICE vehicles. On EV's there is an expensive overhead for the actual EV system, so they offset it by bunging in all those gizmo's.
Yes I completely agree with you there
Exactly my thoughts! R&D money has already been spent on all the “shizzle”. So they equip the car fully to make it more appealing, as the price is already high because of battery.
@ 50 kWh battery is around £100 per kWh so £5,000 for the battery. As cheap as putting iin a fossil fuel engine...
I think it's in the middle of that.
It's also that the market is rich people now.
And having to many supply options cost, especially at low volume.
What Robert fails to mention is the posh materials are a part of the pricing.
And the paint is often a higher end option.
This is also a converted ice car, not a good chassis.
@@ferkeap The platform was developed to support ICE, hybrid and BEV from the start. You could still argue pure-play BEV is better for a BEV model, but this isn't converted from an ICE platform.
I love that soo many new ev’s are coming to the market!
Thats true altough most of them are laughable.
And that's why I never understood all the fuss about tesla. The smart historical brand will join on too, some (maybe even most) will fail, sure, but some will nail it, and they already have an advantage in infrastructure, relationship, brand identity with some people..
Not saying they will fail, but they probably wont' dominate anytime soon.
@@Yautah I dont think so. Tesla has better infrastructure with Superchargers. Also they are way ahead of their competition with technology and infotainment.
@@ZenuxHD Agree, the early argument was always that there was no where to charge your car but your home. Tesla's infrastructure made it possible for EV's to gain mobility and allow them to become viable for the average person. There were other just as important things that Tesla had to do to make EVs mainstream, but charging infrastructure was the one most pushed by the traditional automakers.
@@ZenuxHD I think you underestimate how many people would rather buy from another brand given Tesla’s poor build and quality control reputation. I’d rather have a Volvo, Merc, Audi, or Ford EV over Tesla. Not just because other mass market brands will be cheaper.
I wonder if car manufacturers are only releasing expensive ev’s to limit the number they sell, whilst access to batteries is still limited?
No, they make less margin on EV than ICE, so they're not making them expensive on purpose, they are trying to make them affordable. And they have to because of Europe CO2 regulation, it's less expensive to loose money on an EV than to not sell one.
That, and the fact that people don't put a value on the electric drive train. "I paid so much for this car and it doesn't even have a heated steering wheel."
@@CorwynGC Also, those entry level specs are not popular, they represent only about 1% of the sales anyway... People who buy new cars have money and want the full experience, the other buy used cars.
@@dufonrafal Are you sure? Because when you buy a used ICE car there are plenty of base models on the market which somebody must have purchased new.
@@limeyjoe1632 the absolute lowest specs ones are pretty rare, at least in western Europe, and it's the only one not available on this electric C4, but even with ICE powertrain, only the most basic powertrain is available.
Very valid rant about price when one of the objections to ev use is purchase price, make it more affordable.
Prices are going down thanks to better, more affordable battery technology. But there's a HUGEEEEEE push against it from governments that are usually lobbied by the petrol conglomerate.
Until the battery price comes down that can't happen
My take is, currently demand for electric cars outstrips how many the company can make. Therefore it makes financial sense to sell fully loaded cars for more profit. All the legacy companies are having to fight over third party batteries.
@@LateInAugust Profit margins on electric cars are wafer thin!!
Three years ago Renault Zoe 40 could be had for £16,000. This year 2021 Zoe 50 is £30,000. Good to see cheaper battery prices are being passed on to the consumer. Oh hang on ......it’s the same car with a slightly bigger (but cheaper) battery, and it’s £14,000 pounds more . Think I won’t bother then, but thanks for the kind offer though Renault. I’ll go and check the mirror and see if someone has written”MUG” on my forehead.
Nice, I’ve always liked Citroen for being bold and a little bit different from other manufactures.
Couldn't agree more about the way these are being priced against ice counterparts.
Thanks for showing under the hood , always find it interesting to see how ice manufacturers are packaging the power train in the same body's as the ice cars .
I don't remember what I have under the hood of my Leaf, only opened it when I got it, never since. But I know exectatly what I have in my old ICE.
@@pbyfr witchcraft most likely 😁
ICE builders know that if they sell an EV at the same price as a petrol one, they do not sell any more ice cars in the future (as Porsche experimented with the Taycan), but the two big problems for them are: they don't have batteries, and they need to sell also ice cars in the next XX years. The big risk is most of them will go bankrupt this decade.
Hood do u mean bonnet
C'mon Citroën, bring out the electric 2CV!
The Duck-E
They did. It's called the Ami.
I know some will protest but it fills much the same niche (while having four times the horsepower of the original 2CV).
Ami is available.
Fiat has made the 500e.
So of course we need Citroen 2CVe and Renault R4e.
@@panzerkami2381 ... But can't transport 4/5 people....or hay baked to fields, or take pigs,goats to market....which is what the 2cv was designed to do!
14:11 I am starting to think Robert wants a Dacia Sandero or even a Lada Niva with no radio, no AC and the powertrain of the Zoe. Wait that’s what I want, I’ll be over here.
You might want the Dacia Spring?
Wuling HongGuang Mini will be perfect and it costs less than 5k when it comes to the UK. No frills low range EV that's cheaper than ICE.
11:47 'why can't you buy this electric car WITHOUT all the extra equipment at a cheap price? I haven't seen an answer for that'. This is easy to answer: mainstream manufacturers do not have the production infrastructure (e.g. battery production capacity) to sell E-cars in large numbers. Hence, throwing in all this extra stuff they can argue for a high 'luxury price' and thus keep sales numbers down to managable levels.
Gadgets are cheap to fit for the manufacturer , the big markup is just an excuse for more money, my guess is they dont want to sell anything electric cheap because they cannot make enough batteries for high volume and people will just buy them anyway.
Because they want to exploit the rich seam of early adopters who are willing to pay premium to go electric, add in that thanks to the favourable tax rate they want to move people to a higher price point.
You can buy an electric car without all the "extras", trouble is they aren't much cheaper. The cost of the battery is still very expensive and that's the real problem. Throwing in lots of kit doesn't actually add much to the cost of the car, but makes it look better value. Removing most of the fancy stuff would remove about £1,500 max from the list price!
@@grahamariss2111 early adopters...weren't they around 10 years ago?
@@musclerent Would be nice if that was now the reality, but with BEV still making up less than 10% of the market they are still not the mainstream choice, which is why they are still coming to market with premium priced 1st Editions.
11:44
The reason is, that cheap electric cars at this point only make sense when fully equipt because of the higher margins in the extras.
Exactly battery technology needs to be a lot cheaper, budget minded people have a difficult time wrapping their heads around paying more on the front end to save money in the long run.
Cost of running has nothing to do with cost of making cars. Batteries are much cheaper than 5 years ago. Manufacturers are charging customers a premium for electric cars that bears no relationship to the cost of manufacturing.
Well, I think there's more than 1 reason. Of course, you have the huge R&D cost that legacy automakers are investing in designing electric drivetrains and building cars around them. But I also think it's a bit of a Tesla effect. If you go back a decade, we had cars like the Citroën C0, the VW e-Up, and so on. And in comes Tesla with luxury electric cars with bigger margins. And now we see legacy automakers investing in those bigger margin cars because they know they actually have buyers for cars that expensive.
@@doggylover1958 that's how Tesla stays competitive, they use that to their advantage
@@bluetoad2668 Tesla are not just skimming huge profits and banking them like other manufacturers. They have invested heavily in the Supercharger network and that has a huge influence in the buying decision, particularly when the alternative non Tesla charging infrastructure is so appallingly poor (at least in the UK). Would I rather use a Tesla super charger or try my luck with an ecotricity charger ? It’s a no brainier.
On the R&D point Renault Zoe 40 kWh in 2017 could be bought for £16,000. Renault Zoe 50 kWh 2021 costs £33000. (Govt grant reduces that to £30,000). No further R&D done, they just fitted a 10 kWh bigger battery to essentially the same car and doubled the price. Tell me we are not being ripped off.
The reason you can’t get Evs with less options is because the “options” on a standard car don’t cost hardly anything to produce, they just cots a lot when selected. This is why adding them to evs is great as it costs the manufacturer hardly anything and makes the extra 7000 over the base petrol C4 seam a lot more meaningful!
I'd estimate a massaging seat at 500 to 1000 (£,€,$), and there's probably two of them in the EV. Not having them could be 2,000 cheaper. (I'm assuming).
@@hrford yeah but the point is it kind of artificially justifies the cost. If you could buy the same car with no extras it would only be a few thousand cheaper but would still be more than the top spec petrol.
I think this is because manufacturers think that EV's should sit somewhere in the premium category. And they do have somewhat of a point there, EV's are much more appealing for house owners with driveways. Especially in a segment like this, you would want to attract a person who is just not satisfied with their diesel 5008 any more or even comes from a higher segment, and wants all the new luxuries of a truly modern car.
@@hrford I’d bet those massage seats probably cost Citroen £25 per seat over the standard. Then they sel them as a £500 option on the petrol car. Give them for ‘free’ on the EV to mask the cost of the battery
@@MrKlawUK I saw that kind of comment in another thread. I'm inclined to come around to that thinking. It seems manufacturers might be making tons of money on the options. I guess?
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Robert really likes the e-C4, its 'supremely satisfactory', but he's struggling to rave about it. It's a really nice compact SUV, good to drive, decent range and packed full of lovely features. But are they all needed? As with other EVs, when compared with their petrol/diesel counterparts, could they be stripped down of some of these add-ons to bring the price down to being more affordable? Does anyone really need their back massaged while driving?
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Timestamps:
0:00 Touch & drive!
1:14 Simple start
1:56 100% honest
2:28 Young people required
2:43 Shut up!
3:11 She's back
3:49 Back to review
4:40 Nicely appointed
4:57 Lovely features
5:38 Super adequate
6:08 Really nice interior
6:32 Roomy back
7:05 Heavy on the head
7:17 Plenty of power
8:00 Easy charging
8:51 Generous boot
9:14 Plain sailing
9:30 Button massage?
10:20 All the extras
11:09 Mini pricing rant
12:23 Under the bonnet
13:35 Reversing camera
14:09 Features run through
15:41 Sunroof!
15:53 Supremely satisfactory
16:27 Subscribe, support, join
Robert makes these videos very entertaining and funny, love it !😀
Fully agree with your "little rant" about stuffing unnecessary extras into electric cars without offering a base model.
you are delightful to watch - listen to - as always, thank you for presenting!
Absolutely loving the video stabilisation of the driving footage. Nicely done!
Adjust the volume when the sat nav is talking, that's it.
Love when you call it citron 🍋 excellent video as always!
"Froot/Frunk Space - 0 litres" - This is the kind of depth and detail that other reviews fear to plumb.
I shall be doing an infotainment walk-through video guide on my channel of the e-C4 so you can also learn how to turn off the Sat Nav voice - it isn't out yet but keep an eye on my channel!
"this car is really very nice" for almost all the video, very informative
The quiet drive of an all electric vehicle is a stress reducer.
Can you imagine cities without all the noise from gas and diesel vehicles ?
I wonder if it would reduce aggression by adding a calming effect on people.
The answer to your question Bobby , is that legacy automakers have to hide their pricing strategy by overloading with options (that you are still paying for) to falsely claim EV are far more expensive than the equivalent ICE vehicle.
Otherwise JoePublic might just leave them with 10 million unsold oil burners
Citroen is the most underrated car company; they have Dakar and WRC more than any other car brand
One little recommendation and I love you and your work:
- Always stat with the range (the realistic one)
- Next, how long does it take to charge,
- Next, how long much does it cost to charge from 0% --> 100%
- Next, price!
- Next, Warranty: For how long and what is exactly covered.
Thank you
Charging from 0 to 100% is massively unrealistic. In reality 10% to 80% is all you will do in the real world. You won't be pulling up to chargers in turtle mode very often, nor will you be sitting on them to top the battery up to 100% wuthout pissing off other EV drivers waiting to charge.
@@FFVoyager I understand, but you would charge from 5% realistically speaking to like 95% at home and rarely on a fast charger. In which case, I would love to know how long it'll take, how much it'll cost, and what is the realistic range of driving normally, without cruise control.
@@TeddyAlFarra Not many people are going to be charging from 5% at home either.
Cost to charge us proportionalnto battery size for all evs
@@GAmbrose or care that much as they will be doing it when they are not using the car!
very nice video, i am getting one in the middle of december and its going to be the shine sport version and in Red Elixier color and its really going to be great and i really cant wait for it, i am really happy about it....greetings from flemming hansen
I love fully charged...! Thank you Robert
Robert is the greatest EV Reviewer of the 2. He is enthusiastic on the small little details that someone might miss, but he's on it, describing the vehicles.
Finally a critical review !
Your intro is one of the best I've seen in years.
Another very good video and review, too bad we seldom see Citroën in the U.S.A.
Kryton would have had no probz dealing with that sat nav.......
Your choice of Music and the cut is soooo nice again. Always love to watch your vids. Keep on going :3
I would pay a lot to have Kryten's voice be my sat nav!
..there u go Robert - another revenue stream :) - wouldnt want Holly v 1.0 though....!
Cool review Robert.
Future note: When the sat nav is giving directions, use the volume control to mute it.
Or simply use the voice control to stop the sat nav
@@musclerent Well he probably wanted the visual directions; just not the sound messing up his recording.
@@AshleyWilsonAU I doubt that very much. What's more likely is whoever delivered the car to that location used the sat nav and it was trying to route him back there
I have the same one "shine pack " Best and Beautiful !!🤩👍
Good to see they have sensibly retained physical switches and dials.
There speaks someone who's never owned a Tesla.
Indeed, and there are reasons I don't own a Tesla.
You LIKE the switch by the cup holders that changes the screen to show charging details? Why?
@@steved7085 I wonder how many you'd still have after living with one for a month
@@bluetoad2668 I'm way too picky and very particular about my car ownership and the experience I get from it. So in respect to that, I will not be happy owning a Tesla. That said, I like what Tesla have done to the car industry, I think it's brilliant. I do plan on buying an EV in the near future, however it's likely to be an Audi E-Tron GT, or similar.. depending on other choices.
Just listened to Bobby’s mini-rant on the extras! The massage seats on my C4 Picasso got me through my drive around Europe in 2019, I bought it for its comfort and it was well worth it; at my advanced years with a bad back I needed it! That’s why I’m holding out for the e-Spacetourer, when and if that might arrive, as we need that luggage space for touring.
The MG range is the no frills alternative. I would describe my MG ZS as boring but adequate. It's very safe and has android auto. Its a bit like the Citroen except it was 8k cheaper than that citroen. So if you want plain and boring, save some money.
Also a good idea would be fit the charging cables under the 'Bonnet', easy to get to rather than under the boot floor.
Seems to be a horrible trend at the moment with ICE manufacturers, outpricing the EVs in favour of the ICE variants, it's a silly and damaging practice we hope to see the end of.
I think we must wait for pure eve brands like Tesla... and Chinese will come out with something so affordable that all the big brands will have to stop this practice. And some will die!
It's why I went with a cheaper Chinese MG5. Fewer bells and whistles but more power, more space, similar range, £10k lower price.
This channel gets better and better every time I see it 👌
"There's some good shizzle in this car" haha! love the review of the car 😎
The PSA-Group definitely did a decent job with their current generation of EVs. They are no record breakers or head-turners. They are cars very suitable for daily life!
The cars are good. Pricing is a different matter
@@jamesbedford7327 That's true. Luckily, the incentives on EVs are relatively high here in Germany. It's still expensive but manageable.
"good shizzle" watch out Robert, you might attract some younger viewers! lol great stuff as always.
You should be considering purchase price as only part of the Total Cost of Ownership. If running costs and maintenance are MASSIVELY lower then internal combustion vehicles, the Total Cost of Ownership of the EV will still be well lower, EVEN after the higher acquisition cost.
Ha ha ha. I’m sure those flamboyant French designers were hoping for a more evocative expression than “dents at the front”. Love it. 🤣
Some may call it progressive, others may call it a masculine package.
Here in Denmark you can buy the e-c4 in the LIVE sku which only has basic feature like a standard cruise control and halogen headlights. No HUD, No keyless, No Heated seats, No sunroof, No parkingsensors, etc. So it must depend on the market whether it is available
Love this review! I am not the biggest Citroen fan but this looks decent!
11:50 Because they have accountants that insist on recovering the research and development costs?
I’d go for the Mokka-e over this.
Some fantastic points raised from the robot in Red Dwarf! 👍
any chance of a people carrier EV? also, when will car hire companies (enterprise, Europcar etc.) start giving worthwhile options in the EV space?
Nissan e-nv200 Evalia has been out a few years. It does that. Mercedes EQV is posher, longer-range one. Not cheap though.
Mercedes make one. The EQV. It's impressive for 2015-16. It's not 2016 anymore.
@@ramblerandy2397 oh but it is for most companies, they are desperately delaying EVs because if they are adopted too fast it'll put a huge ICE shaped hole in their balance sheets. Thank god for them there isn't a mass producer of EVs disrupting the space for them, oh, wait.... that'd be Tesla then
@@bluetoad2668 Which is why they frame Tesla as a disrupter.
I like this car. Just the EV pricing that needs to be sorted; we’re not there yet - but it’s coming - for the BIG switch to EV for most people.
As someone who gets cold hands... dreaming of heated steering wheel at least 3 months of the year.
They are as nice as you imagine they are. Work well even when wearing gloves.
As a cheapskate, I never expected to drive such luxury, but after a little driving in a new Kia eNiro, I am finding heated steering and seats very nice!
Robert probably has a very large warm garage he keeps his cars in, not the drive like we do where they get cold at times and its painful to hold the wheel.
No rear wiper? Really? I live in a country with lots of snow and rain, dust - am I not supposed to see anything? What good is all the high tech without a basic safety feature like a wiper? Will they next time omit the front wipers too? To make it even more "futuristic"? Otherwise, it might have been a great car.
When is the Grand one coming?! The Grand C4 Picasso is my family car and I can't wait to swap it for an electric one.
A C4 Picasso (a feat of stylistic genius) as an EV would be a dream.
It isn't. Try a C5 instead
@@musclerent boo. I don't want an SUV, I want an MPV.
@@MrGonzonator it isn't a SUV. Maybe consider an MG5 etc
@@musclerent not big enough. C4 Picasso has three full sized independently reclining and folding seats in the second row, and in the Grand they also slide a good 25cm. Extremely versatile.
Another software adjustment is needed: the cruise control's "Adaptive" feature remains activated at all times once the cruise control is engaged. This poses a risk as the vehicle may decelerate during overtaking manoeuvres under specific motorway conditions. Currently, the distance control settings are limited to approximately 3, 2, and 1-second following distances. Introducing an additional setting of "0" seconds on the same control would effectively deactivate the Adaptive Distance Control, ensuring safe overtaking. Kindly address this issue promptly.
Thank you!
My guess about the price/options is that they advertise "10k" worth of options. This may be true if you were to buy them. It probably only costs then 2k to make/add. So giving you 10k of options for only 6k actually nets them 4k, and helps subsidise the cost. The bare bones ev may be 10k more than the petrol. Add all the options and the difference could be only 6k. It looks better value. Maybe I am just cynical. Ah, I think Sergei has already raised this point :)
I agree Robert the old ICE manufacturers are front loading the extras to offset the loss of revenue from servicing I suspect, just wait for the Chinese to pull the rug from under them?
How much do you think the battery costs v a petrol engine and gearbox?
The Chinese already sell electric cars here
Errrm....I think Tesla is standing there holding a big rug right now
@@bluetoad2668 What does that mean?
Really wouldn't swap it for our e-Niro, for comfort space or range. Totally agree about need for affordability
I’m surprised that the USP of this car, its suspension system and ride comfort, wasn’t dwelt on.
Do modern Citroens care much about that? My guess it will be nowhere near as nice to ride in compared to my old hydropnumatic BX's and Xantia.
@@FFVoyager it's actually as good or even better, hard a quick test drive and the mix of electric silence and great suspension has almost tipped me towards getting one.
@@FFVoyager Other reviewers have noted the comfortable seats and smooth ride. One compared it to a BMW 7 series. Modern Citroëns don’t quite glide like a DS, GS or CX, but the special dampers they use do allow for a soft setting.
Agree. Also I drove it the other day, and I was amazed on how quiet it was compared to its comparable rivals. Not mentioned at all..
Thanks Fully charged for your brilliant reviews and head to head guides, I plan to buy used electric this year once this 'thing' settles down and all your video's will help me decide which one to buy
Looks like something a middle aged french office worker would drive
A few things were mentioned, when you get a longer time with cars maybe add: on route planning, display of charging speed (when am I waisting time/money ), car prepping battery for fast charging. So details of the electric car part
Robert, do you guys ever get to see some sunshine? What another gloomy looking day in the UK.
It's winter in the UK
@@musclerent it’s winter where I live, too. But I still have sunny days.
@@theheathkitshop2424 well I don't know if you're in the UK but in early February there aren't many sunny days...you're more likely to get snow
@@musclerent so far, I've generated 267kwhs from my gird tie solar in feb in ohio of all places. I got a quite a few more days to go. Last Feb, I did 427kwh in Feb.
@@theheathkitshop2424 I've got a grid tied system as well. Feb will probably see 120kw because it's winter. It's been getting dark at 4pm
Vehicle companies make a lot of money on options. I think what we're seeing is a camouflage for the high prices of manufacture with these expensive options which have an associated high profit margin. Manufacturers are taking the hit on the options profits to be able to cover the costs of retooling, battery price, R&D, the whole gamut. This is where we'll see the older manufacturers falling behind-they will be forced to take significant losses if they try to sell a less expensive EV-which they will have to do eventually.
“The high end of perfectly acceptable” Haha! Looks good 👍🏻
I agree, the artificially high price is just to prevent sales. The gizmos are inexpensive to add and it would probably cost most of the savings to have a second production run without them. I like the way the speed control uses the traditional, and appropriate, two chevrons.
Do you feel that you have to speak higher of the ev's that you review in the interest of furthering their rise in popularity? I feel that often the reviews come across as being more complimentary than perhaps they are deserving and wondered if this is the reason?
I've got one of these coming in March. Can't wait!
When this electric car dies, will it go to Silicone Heaven? Like the calculators?
Silicone Heaven? I think that's for Pamela Anderson. 😉
Oh that was good! TH-cam recommended this video after looking for a particular clip from Red Dwarf
There is no silicone heaven.
@@cbcdesign001 *shuts down*
Extras cost zilch, compared to what the battery cost extra... Seeing Robert massaged, priceless!
Dear Robert, Thank you for your application to join our marketing department, I'm afraid your application this time has not been successful. Perhaps a course on marketing speak would help. Words like "very acceptable" and "who could get excited by..." and so on are just not what we are looking for right now. LMAO.
I'm very impressed at the extent to which Citroen has implemented loads of digital technology in this car. By digital technology I mean lots of confusing buttons that you have to use your digits to activate.
"at the high end of perfectly acceptable" - for £30k. I agree - prices need to come down by jettisoning gimmicks.
The gimmicks don't really cost the company much that's why they're bundling them in to make the price more acceptable. Electric components are expensive. Removing them won't reduce the price much.
I always enjoy this channel and extra much this video as the owner of a VW ID.3, because it is always interesting to see how a similar car from a competitor performs!
"This is the "citron" e-C4 first drive." Not very kind starting off calling the car a lemon!
This is what I also just thought! 😂
Yesterday we bought this car and its amazing ride, like scifi. We like it!
Not feeling these car reviews from FC as much as I used to. Seems to be something lacking in the writing. Too much time at the start on the sat nav, don't care, tell us about the car.
Good to have the car front heavy, fwd in snow or ice needs the weight. The basic C4 in Iceland costs 20% less vs the full Shine versin with 11 kwh charger. 22.975 pound up to 27.5 fully stocked
Can someone make an ev that's just 4 wheels and 5 seats I don't need or want the techy stuff in the cabin
MG5?
Hi, love your enthusiasm in these reviews. I would be interested to know a little more about ride, handling and cornering in the cars? It's important for me that a car is comfortable but does not drive like a wardrobe on wheels like some larger Citroëns and Vauxhauls I have sometimes driven over the years!
Well said. Soo electric reviewer let's hear it pls
Robert never complains about the high price and options when he drives Teslas, just saying
Because they don't produce fossil fueled Vehicles to compare against! I feel that the higher price in regards to Tesla is down to production costs due to volumes, this will come down as they produce more, quicker! And don't forget TESLA is THE Marque when considering pure EV! in my opinion 🤗
Yes - how much would a car cost when stripped to the basics? @Robert: Please try the Dacia Spring and tell us.
I think you were right about pricing last time, there keeping the price artificially high so as to sell all the ice engines there manufacturing.
The market is also not ready. Most people wanting an EV would go to the fully equipped model. And at 2/3 of the price, a basic model (ICE or EV) is in fact very expansive.
Simply keeping the profit margins up.
That and PSA/Citroen might be lightly forgiven if they created this as an *_e-C4 Pallas_*
My boss had a GSA back in the 80's, nippy car with 3 stage suspension, that would made a lovely cheap electric car.
A clean cockpit with some buttons, looks very nice/calm inside.
the way you pronounce Citroen in French sounds like lemon in english
I've always thought that, all Brits seem to do that.
@@quixomega This Brit is losing his shit over his inane dribbling incompetence.
Just done a test drive in Portugal. I am 6'4" (1.95) and have no problem in the back...but there is no sun roof. Don't want one, and maybe that is why headroom is restricted in RL's test car
By he way, Citroën is pronounced “sitro-N”.
In English speaking countrys it's mostly sitron or sitrOen. Kryten can say it any way his spare head feels like :)
To answer your question, I would assume the reason legacy manufacturers are pricing their EVs on the top-end first is that they are battery constrained and those battery supplies are costly because they are all sourcing the batteries from the same limited suppliers (SK Innovation, LG Chem, Panasonic, CATL). By pricing the EVs higher they are not getting as large of a loss.
Design is too fussy
Currently the volumes are there for variants on ICE, where as multiple variants on low volume EV cost the manufacturer more per unit. An example 2003 Range Rover all had a black sunroof switch from E39 . Land Rover design wanted clouded to match different headliner colors BMW said no due to added cost of variants.
thank you for the review.... A design that only a mother can like ! what a hideous car !
Here in the US, I believe 275+ mile range is necessary... Anything below that range is just selling to meet a price point. Honestly, most people here drive 74-80 miles on the highway. EPA range is measured on 60 mph. US, we need more range to cross between some states on long trips