waiting for the marine-grade polymer update to come to minecraft. tossing my netherite tools away bc if marine-grade polymer could keep ryle kincaid away then im going to be safe for the rest of my life 🥰
I have a bad habit of giving my ocs very over the top and dramatic names (I have a character named Evangeline Sansregret and another named Lucky Seven in the same universe) but like at least I don’t repeat the same thing 3 times
The trend of marketing movies like they market it ends with us is KILLING me it’s so good. “It’s THE romantic found family movie of the year! Come see Midsommar! Don’t forget to wear your flower crown and bring your favorite stuffed bear! 😍”
I mean... Her Maybe series is literally a Wattpad fanfiction. She left an author note at the end of it talking about how she wanted to leave it raw and unedited to "preserve" it. That whole series was awful, made a woman with cystic fibrosis look like she was being a rude drama queen for being cheated on and not immediately getting over it. It really says a lot about how she feels about cheating. I think that was that series that made her husband mad cuz like what lol
@@AshChiCupcak She... She published a Wattpad fanfic unedited? Like, other than maybe changing names, she just slapped that thing on as the final draft???
@@WhiteWolf-lm7gj She said she wanted to keep it authentic to it's original state, the way her fans enjoyed it. I'm sorry but if you enjoy that series, you need therapy. Her fans desperately need to see that there are better authors out there, you deserve better than Hoover.
@@AshChiCupcak I genuinely have no words. I've enjoyed more than my fair share of fanfictions, but that doesn't mean I think they should be copy pasted directly into a book. Like, ignoring the obvious differences, fanfiction generally isn't written with the same care as a published book. That's like me texting my sister about an experiment I did and trying to publish those texts as a scientific paper
Can I just air a tiny, dumb greivance that is literally the least of the book/movie's problems? I hate that Lily gives birth to a girl. It is SO predictable. I personally think her having a boy would have been more impactful. Obviously, DV affects women substantially more, but we have Lily and her mother. We have the one that stays, and the one who breaks the cycle. Having her give birth to a son, and momentarily see him as her father, or as Ryle, and then deciding the same message of "it ends with us," wouldve been so much more inclusive, less predictable, and even poetic because nobody is born an abuser. Lily making it her mission to not have her daughter end up as a victim, is comenable. Lily making sure that her son doesn't become an abuser? That's heartbreaking. A lot of parents will never think of their child ever becoming a nasty person. To make her have that forthought, would've added such a richness to the message of DV, because it does start at home.
OMG yesss. they always make the kid of a victim be female so the abusive dad realizes how awful it would be if some guy did that to his daughter. but what about his andher son? that would've been so much more impactful but of course CoHo didn't think of that
As a mom to 3 boys (and a girl) this is spot on. There are literally 4 men in this world that I trust and feel safe with, and I’m raising 3 of them. My oldest son has a girlfriend, and I am on his ass to make sure he respects her, her autonomy, and sees her as a whole person outside of their relationship. So far, I think the effort is paying off. He’s treating her the way she deserves to be treated even without me checking in… but I just need to know and make sure, because I’m not out here raising the next generation of emotionally stunted abusers.
well obviously it's safe for him to be around the kid, since babies/young children famously never inspire feelings of impatience, frustration, etc. that could push someone prone to rage blackouts over the edge
That’s why I hated this book in no way would you let him have a relationship with his daughter after what happened to you he hadn’t changed and now it’s your responsibility to take care of your kid
Yeah....my stepdad is emotionally abusive to my mom, but guess what?? He was also abusive to me and my siblings. I still have flashbacks and panic attacks when I hear men shouting. My mom is desperately trying to get him to have a positive relationship with his younger kids, so I can understand Lily's impulse, though. Sometimes, when you are an abuse victim, you desperately want to believe that there is good in their abuser somewhere. Shits rough.
@@chriswildfire the state would absolutely force her to let him have a relationship with the kid. at worst they'll require supervision for a year, but without a DV conviction they will absolutely drop that requirement after a year of good behavior.
19:22 The fact that Lily’s flower shop is dark and edgy and Hot Topic themed, but the book cover is pastel pink and bright and romantic and dainty... is so absurd. Like, at least stick with your own theme, CoHo!! 😂
yeo would also fit together with the dv theme. Flowers are sweet and beautiful but so many of them are dangerous. The book wouldn't be good but at least it would be consistent.
Something crazy to me is that the only thing that separates this guy from the other colleen Hoover love interests is that he’s physically abusive. every love interests in her books are serial daters but get aggressively possessive and say and do the most creepy shit imaginable but the only difference from him and the others is that he hits her
True, and that's also what makes ryles abuse seem so random, bc he randomly pushes her one day, when in actuality many abusers would show signs of being controlling early on, as do coho's other love interests do
From memory, the guy in Slammed doesn't hit his love interest (who is his *high-school student* 🤢🤮) but he does physically force her into a freezing shower, and also dumps a jug of water on her. I know it's not physically damaging, but it is using force to be intimidating and threatening. He also beats up another of his students quite severely, for having the audacity to hit on his high-school student girlfriend. So some of her other love interests are physically violent, but it's usually the type of abuse that's "I'm punching walls/inanimate objects so I don't punch you" (which is often a precursor to the more overt physical abuse). The guy from Maybe never is a 🍇ist too. But you're right, it's sickening that CoHo wants IEWU to be taken seriously as a dv awareness story when every other love interest is as bad or worse than Ryle and doesn't get called out
@@xoPotatoTreexo shocking too considering she was coming out with an iewu COLOURING BOOK at one point. this is not the dv awareness book/movie some people are making it out to be, there are better ones out there with better people behind them that are more responsible.
i was just ab to comment this but i wanted to see if anyone else clocked that too!! i hate 'daddy issues' as a label slapped on every woman who isnt perfectly well adjusted in relationships, but it makes so much sense how her love interests' shitty actions are always treated as forgivable- as long as they 'love' the protagonist. it kind of operates on the 'one big terrible action/ two weeks of bliss' model she describes in this book.
And her son's inappropriate behavior to a MINOR girl. Like I'm sure Colleen Hoover isn't a horrible person irl and is pretty nice, but you would've assumed she(and her husband) would teach their sons to respect women after everything their grandmother has been through. But i kinda see because of how screwed up Colleen Hoover's men in her other books justified them because "they have trauma". Like I know her books are fiction but she-a grown woman and a mother should have realized how her works would affect her sons. If her sons read or know about her books(they are grown adults so they probably know of it) and the way the men mistreat their love interest they probably got in their head like-oh, it's fine to mistreat women because MY mom is okay with that." But I don't want to put the blame on Colleen. It's 100% her son's fault for being disgusting. I want to put my opinion because I personally knew my r@pist who has anger issues and I saw how he never was taught to learn common decency and his punishment was "no videos games" or "no spending time with friends", and I wondered so many men in our society are so messed up because their parents never taught them respect and never gave them real punishments. Also I think Colleen Hoover thinks that men being disgusting is okay because she either was raised with disgusting men(besides her dad)around and thinks their behavior is okay. Edit: I was never abused by my r@pist physically, but I remember how he always wanted to wrestle with me(Because I wasn't into girly things and I pefer to be with boys at that time)and he was always bigger and so he would always win. I wonder if there's any physcologist to explain if he liked wrestling with me because he was in control and had power over me(he couldn't fight his siblings because he would get in trouble).
@@laraharvey5780 The daddy issues label is so strange because, due to how fucked our society is, having daddy issues is way too common and doesnt discern
When Ryle was trying to justify his anger and abuse as blackouts and lack of control all I could think of was this section from Bancroft's book: "Anyone who believes that abusers lose control of themselves should peer through the window when the police enter a home. Hundreds of women have told me: 'It’s as if he could flick a switch. The police arrive, and he’s suddenly cool as a cucumber. Meanwhile, I’m freaking out, so of course they think something is wrong with me. They don’t believe he could settle down that fast.' If abusers truly had tremendous problems managing their anger, if they were as emotionally vulnerable or deeply injured from childhood as they often maintain, they wouldn’t be able to shut themselves off like a faucet as soon as a cop knocks on the door." - Lundy Bancroft "Why Does He Do That?" If anyone is interested it's available online for free.
Yes. Ditto he knows not to talk to her like a dog in front of her friends and family. So much for "he just loves me so much he loses control when I hurt him". 'Cos, you know, he FEELS so much.
@@ShidachiOm Yes, such a classic abuser line - "but I just love you so much, the thought of losing you makes me lose my mind," yada yada, blah blah. The fact that colleen just leaves the clasic abuser explanation stuff in there unquestioned is quite horrible.
"you had to slap your forehead with your hand like you're homer simpson? i would have jumped off the rooftop right there." I laughed OUT LOUD so hard lmao
The way her name is literally just flower flower flower, atlas is her world and Ryle gets riled up 💀 But seriously though I think it’s great that Ryle isn’t justified within the narrative, the problem is he has similar traits to all her other “romantic” heroes so in other novels she does romanticize this type of man
The sister of Ryle not warning Lily about his issues with rage and self-harm before they started dating is VERY real in a terrible way. Many women who are related to or friends with abusive or problematic men/women/folks will excuse their behaviors and try to uptalk them, sort of like a self-soothe for being related to a person with these issue whom they also love. It's amazing how often trauma regarding intimacy and sex is added to romance stories directed at women, when men need to be aware of these behaviors that are dangerous and harmful more than women do, so that they don't do it, don't remain silent about it, get mental health support to avoid becoming this person, but also know that they can experience abuse too. If you find yourself in an abusive relationship, whether there is physical violence or not, your safety matters MORE than their feelings. To be more real, it tends to start with offhand sussy comments first: backhanded compliments, sarcastic gratitude, fake pity comments, waspish comments, complaints about your relationships with people other than them, pouting, impatience, etc. Then angry silence and/or cursing loudly. Then yelling, then cussing you out over nothing, slamming things around the home, invading your privacy, then invading your space, going through your things, touching you without permission, using intimacy to manipulate your feelings and thoughts on their behavior, apologizing but in a way that STILL blames you as if you're equally at fault for the violence, then damaging themselves or your things for either sympathy or to get back at you, and if you're still with them through ALL of that, THEN they hurt you physically. This is why Red Flags are a thing, to draw attention to these warning signs that they are NOT safe to be with. The same rule applies to friends and family. They'll say it's an accident. It's not. They'll say it's never going to happen again. It does. You don't accidentally throw someone against a wall, a fridge, a car, a door, etc. You don't accidentally shove someone. You might want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but be kinder to yourself instead, because you know that violence isn't about you, and you don't deserve it. No one does. You don't accidentally punch or choke someone. Many domestic violence survivors compartmentalize the way Hoover portrayed it, and I think her pointing that out, is for those who are abused to recognize that internal mental back&forth and that they did that EXACT downplaying of the actions of their abuser like Lily does, using that same language. I know a few personal examples of this. Many survivors of DV who fought back, and ended up using fatal methods to end their torture (That's what DV is, it's defined as torture equivalent to POWs with symptoms like PTSD stemming from those experiences) are later blamed for not leaving sooner to avoid killing their abuser. There are organizations working to change sentencing for survivors of DV. I'll say it again, if you find yourself in an abusive relationship, whether there is physical violence or not, your safety and well-being matter MORE than their feelings/reputation/job/housing. www.thehotline.org/ is a good resource for how to make plans to leave your partner. If you need to click away to avoid your partner looking through your browser you can press the Red X in the corner to rapid exit then clear your search history.
I don't think the part where Ryle gives his excuse for why he's abusive is a way to make him sympathetic, I think it just shows how abusers try to garner your sympathy. His excuse is pretty much incomprehensible and makes zero sense but it makes him sound like a victim and makes her feel like if she leaves him, she's abandoning a damaged man and not leaving an abusive piece of shit.
@@MoonShadow333 LMAO literally, it's a very realistic thing but it sounds like she's just regurgitating it instead of understanding anything underneath the surface level
Agreed, a lot of this book calls to mind not just the reality of many battered women's experiences, but the book Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. Things like "He lost control, it happens sometimes, he just entered a blind rage" followed by the question of-but that blind rage was only directed at you, at your things. He wasn't throwing around and breaking his own things, he doesn't do this at work, he doesn't treat his friends like this. I'm not a Colleen Hoover fan but she got this part, with the kinds of excuses abusers will often make, down pretty well imo.
I got to say watching Colleen Hoover being so popular that her books spreads to other continents is scaaaryy like in Europe you can’t even enter book store or gas station without being directly jumpscared by her books IN FRENCH. This isn’t NATURAL. the horrors. I feel like a victorian child seeing the first few rats that carried the plague.
Speaking from personal experience - my bio father went to prison for a time because he nearly killed my mom and hurt me physically when I was 4. He got out two years later partially on "good behavior", and despite even MORE physical abuse incidents happening after serving time, a judge still ordered joint custody. Thankfully he was also mostly a deadbeat so he wasn't around a lot, but even with my mom trying to push against the custody agreement it never got changed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It turned out okay since he finally just permanently left us / me when I was 12, so it wasn't a bit concern after that but still.
Tbh one of the worst things about this book is that it proves that she's capable of writing healthier love interests like Atlas, and CONTINUES TO WRITE ONES LIKE RILE. Like all of her leading men are so abusive that they're practically indistinguishable from Rile outside of the physical abuse. And for her adults fans, whatever I guess, read your trash, but way too many kids and teens are reading her stuff 😭
Atlas isn't healthy at all. He's a groomer and a creep. He was a legal adult (literally going on 19) when she was only 15 and waited for her to turn 16 to finally sleep with her 💀 And that's just the part of it. Nevermind everything else, like being sexual with her before she turned "legal". This book's biggest blunder is making abuse selective. Both Ryle and Atlas are terrible and do similar things, but only one is deemed abusive while the other is "romantic" because apparently the true love interest's behaviour can't possibly be bad or problematic. I don't know how this book managed to accurately portray abuse while still romanticising it in the same breath, but it did. Hooray?
@@fruityfruitpunch Ah, damn 😔 I haven't read it myself, so I was kind of assuming when Cindy said he was 18 it was a just turned 18 situation and that she'd be turning 16 soon (like a sophomore and senior in highschool dating). In hindsight I don't know why I would assume that with her?? 💀💀 It definitely feels like the only abuse CH thinks is abusive is physical abuse, which . . . yeah . . .
@@fruityfruitpunch In my defense I did say "healthier", because even without reading it I figured CH is incapable of writing a truly healthy love interest 😂😭 The bar is already so low and she's been digging for years
the way i struggle with writing one line without feeling insecure while Colleen wrote this whole book and thought "yep it's good to go" 💀 it really is about confidence ig
here in Brazil there's a whole section just dedicated to her, and i just what to cry because there are so many better books from Brazilian authors that aren't getting the same attention
@@mylenacunha9628 simm. E saber que essa bomba dela virou filme.. o tanto de gente que vai querer ler, principalmente adolescentes.. isso é muito preocupante.
I googled the difference between stainless and galvanised steel and this came up: "Stainless steel is almost always more robust than galvanized steel. So if structural elements are involved, stainless will likely be a better bet. Stainless steel provides stronger corrosion resistance than galvanized steel -- especially in marine environments." Marine grade stainless steel?
A lot of people with terrible/abusive relationships do try to keep their kids out of it and try not let that affect the kids because so many people have this idea that kids "need" both parents. When my parents split that's what my mom did, even though the reason she left my dad, as I found out years later, was because they had a fight where he got so angry she genuinely believed he would have killed if not for my (at the time) 5 YEAR OLD SISTER running back and forth between both of them saying "I love you mommy" and "I love you daddy" (I was at a friend's place for a sleepover at the time so I wasn't a witness to this). Even despite having a restraining order against him they had an agreement where she had custody but we went to out dad's house during his days off. To be fair my father was never physically abusive with us but growing up he was emotionally abusive, always insulting our mom around us, criticizing and demeaning us, and CONSTANT guilt tripping (I once had a phone conversation where I told him I didn't like how he guilt tripped us and he said "well maybe I'll go kill myself then" which yikes). It reached a point where I cut him out of my life and he got way worse (fell into substance abuse and absolutely TRAUMATIZING my sister). He has since gotten help for his substance abuse and sought professional counseling and to his credit he has improved and had stopped with the guilt tripping, and manipulation, and I do actually have a good relationship with him now. I don't hate him, despite all the hurt because I know that he had his own issues, most of which came to light when he actually got professional help, but despite our improved relationships I can never really trust him with certain things like money (since a sign he's relapsing is that he starts asking EVERYONE for money) and if ever shows sign of being a condescending asshole again to me, my sister or my sister's kid then I'm out. And the pattern has continued: my sister is in the middle of divorcing her abusive soon-to-be husband (I'm not gonna into specifics here but while he's not physically abusive he's been VERY emotionally abusive and has demeaned and controlled her in horrible ways that she's still dealing with today). My sister left with her kid but even when she was at the point where she knew she had to leave him she still wanted him to have a relationship with their kid (Despite him never actually doing anything to care for their kid during their marriage). And he used that as a manipulation tactic to threaten to take full custody away from her, a mistake on his part tbh, because now my sister, who is a great mom and loves her kid more than anyone, is now going to court for custody and she's almost guaranteed to get. Anyway he hasn't seen his kid in-person for a year (despite my sister telling him that he can visit), barely interacts with his kid through video chats so sucks to suck LOSER. And as a bonus my sister is in a new relationship now with a guy who is great for her and HER kid (who adores him, probably more than her bio father actually) so a happy ending there at least! Humans are complicated that's true but Colleen's portrayal of that "complication" is cartoonishly simplistic with no understanding for how people actually behave. And I can understand loving your dad, even if he has been abusive but ma'am this is not it all. Abuse is SO much more than hitting and the "apologizing" after. Sorry for the long comment this video brought up a lot of thoughts (tm) I have about abuse portrayals and why so many of them are so shallow.
@@withcindy I mean the impression I got from you video is its not that hard to. Funny enough I also come from a social work/psychology background so I guess I have truly surpassed Ms Hoover with my comment lol.
Thanks for sharing. Be kind to your sister. (I'm sure you are.) I agree with your assessment of the book. As long as we live in this society women (mostly) are going to gravitate towards simplify these horrors in "fantasy" books like these. What we can do is keep reading (and writing) better books.
When I was a student in fashion design one of the girls in my class had for last name "Couturier" which means dress maker/fashion designer in French and I thought it was such a good name to have as a fashion student
I will say this time and time again. As a literal romance author, I hate that she uses trauma as a “plot twist” in a genre that should not have plot twists like that. The fact that I firmly believe authors should include trigger warnings in their books is my Roman Empire.
As an author myself, I agree. I'm also baffled by how romance now includes rape as romance and beatings are allowed as long as they end up together, and they don't even have to end up together. I've beta'd some very confusing books that are more psych thrillers as I knew them, but because there's sex and something akin to a relationship, however toxic, it's not romance?! I also content-warning my books. I hate the phrase "trigger warning." Ironically, that phrase can be hard for people who deal with trauma related to guns. I only...y'know...saw my dad pull the trigger on a gun aimed at his head moments after aiming it at me.... Hearing "trigger warning" makes me think of that every time, and there's no want to "trigger warning" the phrase. CONTENT warning is better.
I do think with the black outs form anger, you're right. Someone with a condition like that could be very dangerous to be a doctor, that's why i always thought that he was consciously or unconsciously manipulating her into feeling sorry for him so she would stay, and use her as rehabilitation center.
If every CoHo book took domestic abuse and bad male behavior as seriously as this one does, I don’t think she would have the terrible reputation she does. She’d just be harmlessly cringe instead of a blight on romance and literature.
@@barbararab6390it really feels like she learned from (possibly her mom) to compartmentalize abuse and terrible actions as means of coping with trauma and learning to forgive her father to be able to have her in his life. people are a combination of ther words, actions, and thoughts, but thoughts are empty and words are insignificant if actions stay the same... something that seems lost on her
My grandfather was an EXTREMELY violent man--my mother has chosen to forgive him since he has passed away but my little brother and I just can't. So uuhhhh, that epilogue combined with those acknowledgements made me wince.
No, facts. That entire thing kills me. What do you mean he beat the shit out of your mom so badly that he broke bones? Absolutely not, especially if you say "I love my mom!" Like nah. I feel like you can't say that and just be completely fine with the abuse. Also hell the fuck not. I would never trust someone who could have killed me to not kill my kid. That's terrifying.
Colleen Hoover could have GREATLY benefitted from first reading "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft. In it, he debunks many myths around abusers, particularly the whole "blackout" myth. Like you said, if Ryle had actual rage blackouts, it would affect other aspects of his life. Abusers are not blacked out. It is a calculated act to regain control of the person they feel entitled to (typically their SO/spouse or children). She also, in defending her father for not abusing her, ignores the fact that spouses often absorb the abuse to deflect from their children. If her mother had left her father and left her with him, then he likely would have redirected the abuse towards her.
Ryle seems almost like a Jekyll and Hyde situation. Like CoHo wanted to include abuse but also wanted a hot sympathetic love interest so she made him black out during his "evil" moments to make it easier to like him
Honestly having a guy be so filled with rage that he blacks out as he commits violence is so damn scary. Like he'd be gaslighting you the whole damn time.
Except Jekyll never blacks out, he just shape shifts into Hyde, Jekyll allows himself to be a bitch because there won't be consequences. Which makes the comparison stronger cause Ryle did that shit consciously
She's actually said in interviews that she wants readers to love him as much as she does. Present tense. As much as she loves him currently. Despite knowing he's abusive.
I will admit that while It Ends with Us has many (many) flaws, I do like the way Colleen Hoover attempted to ground the abuse in reality. During my first reading of the book at 16, I kept thinking “well, Ryle wasn’t *that* bad” or “C’mon, she’s getting mad over a push?” then, I took a step back years later, only realizing that that’s the way abuse victims stay in shitty relationships, by comparing abuse and making excuses for their abusers EDIT: This isn’t me praising CoHo, just making a note. She’s a shitty person who defended her son’s SA. Just wanted to make that observation
I don't like the inclusion of Atlas' character because it inadvertently lends some credibility to Ryle's feelings. He's wrong to abuse Lily but correct that she has been in love with Atlas for years and will eventually go back to this guy once Ryle is out of the picture. It would be more plausible if Ryle were jealous of other men Lily has interacted with and that this is a longer-running pattern. Also, someone who abuses usually follows a similar pattern with multiple partners, but everything about Ryle's relationship with Lily seems to be the exception for him. Rather than quickly escalating, he usually keep his relationships more casual. Lily can feel that the abuse is connected to how special she is to Ryle because it apparently is. Unless she learns in another passage that Ryle's relationships tend to not last very long specifically because of his rage issues, but I think Cindy would have included that because it's plot relevant.
Yeah, I mentioned towards the end that it would have been good to see a buildup of ryle's abuse being not just jealous rage incidents from Atlas but seemingly minuscule stuff like him being jealous of a customer etc! It is mentioned in the beginning of the book when he was courting Lily that he was not a relationship guy and prefers one night stands, so I guess you could infer that he was like that to avoid getting deep with someone due to his issues? But he still should have brought this up to Lily before getting serious. Although again, it sounds like the rage issues were not a problem before cuz we have had no other example of it
I feel like the chair kicking could've been an attempt at foreshadowing his rage blackouts but from how cindy described it it definitely does NOT give "something is wrong with this dude" vibes (aside from the obvious "dude why are you wailing on a chair wtf") But yeah there's not really a buildup of more insidious red flags that Lily could've missed *because* of her upbringing normalizing that shit, so it ends up coming across as very sudden and "She's Just Special™" which is. One hell of a message to give about an abuse survivor omg
as someone who does have a medical issue that involves issues with regulating anger, to a far lesser extent to whats portrayed here, and who has family members with the same issue... this medical issue is one of the notable reasons why I decided I didn't want kids. not the only reason, and as I've gotten better at regulating my anger with age and outside help, not even one of the main reasons anymore, and obviously not everyone who has these medical issues has to choose the same as me... but I hate how the book portrays this so much. fucking so much
1:18:12 her not being abused by the father might be what turned her into an apologist for bad men. “He never did anything bad to me,” which I highly doubt. He just… gaslit her and taught her to minimize his behavior and blame herself or circumstances or whatever.
Okay see I didn't have this context until just now, about her good relationship with her abusive dad but now, I have the same thought. Like because she likes her dad, she doesn't wanna upset him so she just goes around writing all these "misunderstood abusers" like...that might actually be it?🤔
I was literally playing LnD with Cindy in the background, and lemme tell you I JUMPED out of my seat when I suddenly heard "Love and Deepspace" lmao. Never thought the day would come but here we are
41:10 I'm sorry but "his sorrow comes in another form. Slow, apologetic thrusts inside of me" is one of the most unserious Colleen Hoover lines of all time 😭
I also think that Lily passing out/being knocked out when the active abuse is happening is a great way for Colleen to avoid having to actually empathize with the moment of experiencing physical abuse from a partner. If she did, she probably wouldn't still call her father her Dear Old Daddy or whatever.
Not just that but being struck so hard you lose consciousness is usually a sign of having received potentially severe brain damage. Made even worse coz he’s a neurosurgeon who knows better. Mans would def be pro-lobotomy back in the day. The story could have very well ended with her being pregnant and a vegetable
1:19:43 as someone who experiensed exactly this, you are SO right. this book's understanding of abuse seems so shallow, and it comes across as if colleen hoover sees her own father in ryle and that's the reason she tries to "redeem" him in some way. it's as if she just doesn't want to admit that abusers, including her father, just generally aren't good people, and tbh i can't blame her bc this understanding by itself is very traumatic. i think it's her best book tho, simply bc she seems genuine about it and i guess her intentions are in the right place. her other books where male love interests behave exactly like ryle make it look like a joke tho lol upd forgot to mention that the means by which coho tries to "redeem" ryle, this whole "he's actually a good person he just has these moments where he's not really himself guys i swear he's actually decent" is exactly how domestic abuse victims justify staying with and still loving their abusers. which is REALLY SAD if you think about it and it makes you question did she really have a good relationship with her father or it's just something that she tells herself to protect her view of the world. this is very upsetting
@@withcindy i think she just forgot that there are also "bad people who do good things" which is a way more realistic depiction of a domestic abuser imo (although it's kinda the same thing, the first way of wording is just safer for your psyche) and yeah she totally failed at writing "complexity", i don't think that "rage blackouts" are the right trope for the character and message she was going for, it's just shifting the blame off of him which feeds into my theory about her projecting her father onto ryle ty for your kind words btw!
@@alex_brokenthe message is very heavy handed in the book and it definitely could have been executed better. But I think of it as the good doesn’t cancel out the bad, but whether or not the bad outweighs the good depends on the situation and the person. I get what Hoover is trying to say. It reminds me of memoirs about traumatic childhoods such as Angela’s Ashes or The Glass Castle. The writers come to the conclusion that the “good parts” and the “bad parts” of their parent exist equally. But at some point, there is also a breaking point on how much the good can outweigh the bad in a person (parent)
Lily's "Let's make a flower shop for people who HATE flowers >:}" feels so silly and like something I would have come up with writing Flower Shop!AU fanfic in 7th grade, especially with my 7th grade understanding of the Dark(tm) or Goffik Edge aesthetic edit: ALSO, her father had to get knuckles replaced from how hard/often he beat her mother--but he was her best friend and a kind handsome charming good man :) Tell me how you actually feel about your mother, Colleen.
... those end notes are profoundly blind and sad. The ability of her brain to compartimentalize and minimize him as a horrendous abuser, like in the balance of this man's life, because his child thought he was a good father, it barely signified how badly and how often he beat her mother. Regarding the book itself, maybe Colleen should have used Ryle's sister as a narrative tool - successful abusers have to groom the people around them, would make sense he would groom his sister to have a sort of character witness at all times, always ready to jump in to excuse it. Or minimize it. But perhaps that would require a level of self awareness that Colleen doesn't have about her own life. Colleen is the baby, that's why she is allowed a relationship with Ryle. Colleen's dad didn't hurt her, therefore Ryle wouldn't hurt Emerson. That's why I think she lacks a deeper and honest understanding of the situation - she wrote them as her parents, and the baby as her. She may say that every situation is different but then she wrote the ending setting up that much like she views her father as good, Emerson will as well. It's a toxic and sad worldview to carry around, no matter her trying to explain it. Also... let's assume Ryle never hurts Lily or Emerson. Are we supposed to forget about that time that Lily'a father almost beat Atlas to death...? Good luck to any guy Emerson sleeps with, Ryle will have a rage blackout and since he will also by then be a successful, respected member of society, with plenty of defenders, he might also ger away with it =D
As someone who experienced domestic violence by the hands of a parental figure I think him being a neuroscientist is so accurate because the person who hurt me was a firefighter. These people are always in roles like firefighter nurse etc to cover up their abuse. There had to be some psychological behind this but it seems that some of the most heroic titles like nurse cop firefighter and even neuroscientist are given to the most horrific people. Now of course this is not always the case but him being a neuroscientist makes so much sense to me because my abuser was a firefighter who was loved by his community. And a switch did go on and off. When we was at home he was either relaxed or full of rage and anger as quick as a light switch. I know it sounds crazy but these people who do these types of things really know how to play a role and it’s easy to fall for these type of guys honestly. Just my two cents but thank you for reading this book and giving us the cliff notes 💙🫡
There have been lots of studies that showed this! It's so unfortunate because they can hide behind a veneer of doing public good while acting horrible behind closed doors
neurosurgeons are known to be huge dicks in the medical community so there's that also really sorry that happened to you and i hope ur doing much better rn
Yeah! My abusive stepdad is a janitor and substitute teacher who is loved by the kids at the school he works at, but when he comes home its like a switch being flipped. He manages to be sweet to kids he barely knows but can't be good to his own children 💀
Dennis Lehane’s detective series, starting with A DRINK BEFORE THE WAR, is exactly this. The protagonist’s abusive father is a beloved firefighter. It’s chilling. Lehane worked with abused children before becoming a novelist so he must have seen some of this. He has no sympathy for it. Aside: same book, an abused woman, and it portrays why she stays with deep understanding. One of my favorite books and authors ever.
I think the biggest issue I have with "It Ends With Us" is that Colleen Hoover tries to portray abuse as nuanced by portraying Ryle as someone in pain. While his pain may be real, that is still never an excuse for him to abuse people in the way that he did with Lily and Hoover's choice to have joint custody with Emerson at the end of the book is so terrifying at the possibilities of the cycle of abuse continuing even if Lily tried to break it
In Hoover’s defense (i can’t believe Im writing this), it takes a lot of evidence to prove that the abusive husband can be abusive to the kid in a custody agreement. Most of the time, partial custody is still granted even if the wife was abused afaik. So it’s just realistic. I still agree with Cindy’s opinion that the ending of Lily deciding to divorce Rile was a solid one, even if it is iffy that Rile still has custody. But well, that’s kind of how it is in real life.
The drama around the movie is insane! The actor who plays the ab*ser is the only one who spoke about DV and seriousness of this issue, while the rest of the cast act as if it is a cute funny romcom
Leyla has a brilliant video about this book and was so apt in saying 'THE BOOK DOESN'T KNOW WHAT IT'S DOING!!' and you were spot on! as someone who was groomed & was in an abusive relationship, the depiction of ryle was the one (1) thing that bothered me to my core while reading this book even if i excused the weird/misogynistic/homophobic/bad writing stuff. it was very triggering to see the entire narrative of 'there are no bad people, only people with bad actions'. the hoops that coho goes through to get the audience to understand/sympathise with ryle (the 'reason' for his rage blackouts, the custody of their child) made me so sick because so many people fell for it too!! and that's why we have all these straight women STILL being 'well, ryle had mental health issues! and lily should not have kept those letters! it was partially her fault!' like i cannot imagine someone reading a story of me escaping my abuser and then come out seeing my abuser in any redemptive light or worse, blamed me for my abuse. there are other things which bother me too (like how ryle's sister was the sole female character to help lily, the creepy stuff with atlas etc etc) but the depiction of ryle was just retraumatizing.
i've seen a couple people on twitter share the belief that the reason why books like this have gotten so popular is that there's a lot of women who didn't have fanfiction phases growing up and honestly? that definitely feels like it could be a contributing factor
i completely agree w your take on how colleen's "forgiveness" of abusers is just so weird. with her dad, colleen being like "oh he was abusive to my mother but he was nice to me" just gives me "oh like i heard that person did something bad/traumatizing to you but they were nice to me so." like completely bypasses any accountability on her father for doing what he did. i dont know i wouldnt be able to forgive someone if they hurt my mother like that FOR YEARS, even if that person is my father. idgaf. makes me very sad but hey ! hes dead so (LMAO)
I truly don't get it either. I guess some ppl see having good relationships or forgiveness as closure or an indicator of overcoming something. But I could neverrrrr
she was also, like, a child while all that was happening. she was a child and he was her father and she loved him. adult women can be gotten by this kind of give and take, of course a child would have been taken in and it doesnt make her a bad person or "not holding her father accountable" for falling for it. and then she says that when she grew up she hated her father for forever because of the abuse
Because I haven't read any CoHo books, I don't know what particulars she may or may not have shared in interviews so I'm acting as if the general populace doesn't know particulars about her familial history of abuse. I inferred from the way she described it that not only did her mother and father separate before his death, but that there was also a large gap where he had to prove corrected behavior before Colleen reconciled with him. Maybe none of that is true at all, but I just don't know the timeline at all as to what she considered "necessary" for that redemption/forgiveness. Maybe if I did, I would still judge it as insufficient, but I think it's a little too armchair to say "we don't get it" when I also am not even close to knowing the specifics of how she came to forgive him.
Abusers are very charming and likeable to the people they don't abuse. Not only that, many victims of abuse excuse their behaviour as a coping mechanism, so her mom may not have given her a nuanced perspective on what it's like being with an abusive partner.
14:27 “In her voice, it simultaneously feels like this is a 40 year old woman- but also a 14 year old girl.” wait….. not this perfectly summing up the extremely specific impression I get at any of coho’s damn books 😭
I read it years ago back when I was in secondary school. I feel like if I read it right now I would feel differently about it but back then it had a really positive impact on myself. I grew up in ouest africa in a really traditional and religious oriented country. I also grew up reading really awful wattpad stuff. For example in my country polygamy, arranged marriages and minor marriages are normal. A really famous setences woman tells young brides “be resilient and forgiving” or something like that really shows the place of the women in a marriage. So the fact that the books shows some people can be “good person” but at the moment they became violent or abusing it should be a end of a relationship or marriage was meaningful for me. And the fact that the author made me like the abuser helped me understand the difficulties of the situation. Sorry for my English. Not my first nor my second language.
Kids are really frustrating, they can piss you off (I say this as a parent), and it’s your job as a parent to control your feelings to help them through their emotions/struggles. The chances of this man not harming his child is extremely small, he “blacks out” when his emotions are high so “he can’t help it”. How would he not let this happen with his child if he has no control? It would be irresponsible as a mom to let him be alone with your child. I understand Colleen is using her own experiences but this is wild as hell.
My dad’s stepdad almost killed the whole family “family annihilator”-style. Even so, my dad still talks to him and gives him money to this day. I truly do not understand it. I hate that we have his last name. I would have changed it, but it’s the name on all my diplomas and published work (I’m a writer). Not to be all “I’m built different,” but… you lay a hand on me? I’m gone. No forwarding address. Really don’t get why my dad isn’t the same.
family loyalty runs soooo deep in people for some reason... my sister paid $20K after our parents opened credit cards and maxed them out under her name, she grew up with our dad being an alcoholic A-hole, and yet, she lets them live with her in her house
I hear you and all your feelings are completely valid AND people can still feel love and attachment to their abusers. They just will. Like water is wet, even if you can't understand it. If you and them are all safe you can accept it. Not accepting it won't make them change and you won't be able to change their minds.
Yo the Grave of the Fireflies bit: my friend and I way back in school loved anime and were like "oh its a ghibli film lets watch it!" and long story short me and my friend were sobbing in my room to the point my mom came to check on us lmao. We learned that day that not all Ghibli films were cute twee movies lmao.
colleen hoover spent this entire book showing off that she understands the struggles of homelessness and abuse because she was a social worker and then seemingly missed the fact that children are very rarely taken seriously when it comes to accusations of abuse? if that kid has a father who "blacks out and flies into violent rages" and then immediately starts gaslighting people about what he's done, there is no way she is going to be believed if something did happen to her. it just felt like she didn't fully understand the implications of the story she was writing.
you forgot to mention that the younger sister in grave of the fireflies has great hair!!! maybe she uses blake brown haircare to make her hair look so luscious even when she has no food to eat 🥰
18:33 I work at a flower shop: - Darker color flowers, like brown and black, we stay away from. They are only pretty for so long. And when they die, they look extra ugly. We had a bride that wanted a sandy brown bouquet for her wedding and she wanted to preserve it. My boss had to tell her that brown is like, the worst color to try to make a beautiful preserved arrangement from. (Aka it'll look extra dead.) - Dying flowers different colors is eh. I'm not a fan, but it's just unnecessary work when darker flowers exist. They also don't last too terribly long. - Black and purple walls. With black and purple arrangements. How the hell are people supposed to see the flowers? You'll have to light them up somehow? We have a cooler display with a neutral color background so people can actually see the flowers. Idk how. But Lily is making like, the dumbest decisions and somehow it works? I doubt it.
1:19:55 She probably thinks. "Well I didn't get any psychological damage when I saw my father hit my mother, so it's fine. I could rationalize that, because he was nice to me." ....which I find a bit horrid.
Heck, my dad (to my knowledge) has never physically hurt my mum, but there's been quite a bit of emotional abuse and even if I didn't see every single fight they had as a kid, I was aware of enough that it caused trauma. My relationship with him is complicated, and I probably give him more grace than I should, but at least I'm self-aware enough now to know I was affected so I can work through it. I'd be very surprised if CoHo wasn't affected in some way, but perhaps she's not ready to acknowledge that yet (which probably means she shouldn't have monetised her mother's story, but I'm not the book police 🤷♀️)
Without hard proof of the abuse, a judge will still grant the dad custody. My abuser still gets my kid and i cant do anything about it until i can prove he’s awful.
@@withcindy My wife and I work hard to build him up strong enough that his dad cant break him down. And we did win him for the school year so we have him a little more than his dad gets him. As frustrating as it is, we're lucky he's a smart, good-hearted kid. 🥹
The fact that Ryle is portrayed rightfully as an abuser, but every other CoHo male "love" interest is pretty much different versions of him is insane. And November 9 had a scene where the man committed an unforgivable act against the main character, in a ROMANCE BOOK. That's NOT romance! And it's weird that CoHo made Atlas seem like a good guy when he was 18 and hung out with a younger teen, a minor. I'm 18 now and could _never_ be like that with a 16-year-old. They're still just a child in my eyes. I remember how I was at 16.
And CoHo doesn't market these "romance" books as k!nky, messed up and toxic but for fun and the fantasy of it, which would make it a little better. Some people have wild fantasies and can express it through reading, but man, it should be marketed as such, for adults only! No minors! Like the game, "Your Boyfriend". It's clear that it's messed up, k!nky, and only for adults.
I honestly find Blake Lively's promotion hilarious. like, how out of touch you have to be, to make people that love you and support you go and see a film which has the potential to trigger past traumatic memories or at least make them trust the vibe you're giving off, go there enthusiastic with hair done, floral dress, their girlies and popcorn only to see another woman get abused MULTIPLE times by her violent, manipulative and controlling partner. Seriously, she can't be real.
I feel like the black outs are just a cope from colleen bcz as she said without the abuse of her mother her father was a good one so it makes you think if she believeslikes ro believe that the abuse of her mother by the hands of her goid dad are just his blackouts to her
you r so right bc it bypasses having to address any accountability on the abuser's part. it is a very simplified and weird take on "why someone would abuse someone they are supposed to love." hate it
Loved the video as always ❤️ I think the compartmentalization of Ryle’s abuse is why many DV survivors feel this is a romanticized portrayal. I get why not everyone feels that way and I’m happy they can enjoy the book. Clearly it connects with a lot of people and that’s great. But personally for me the framing of the abuse as just a mistake/ one bad day/ his worst day, the subtle messaging that maybe this abuse would have never happened if atlas had never been a perceived threat to their relationship and caused “black outs”, and the fact that in the end the baby girl is the thing that makes him never hurt her again/quietly let her go with no more outburst or threat to her or the child feels like an overly simplistic and romanticized idea of abuse. It almost treads on being offensive to other survivors indirectly. Like if they just asked their abuser the right question (would you let someone hit our child?) then their abuser would see the light and everything would be better. Almost as if it’s easy. To be fair CoHo made it clear she isn’t suggesting this is how it works for everyone but I could definitely see the ending upsetting people who know how scary leaving can be.
My moms dad was emotionally abusive. One drunken night he hit my gran was with a frying pan full of food. She waited till he slept & beat the sh@t out of him with the same pan. Packed up the kids & ran away to another town. My gran taught us abuse should never be allowed & if we were ever in trouble she would bring the pan.
Imagine if the "love interest" was actually gay like Cindy suggested and the whole book went differently and it was about Lily's friendship with him and he was cool and not abusive and he helped out at her shop
Yeah, as someone who got out of an abusive relationship in my early 20s before it got as far as marriage etc (Praise the Good Lord), this ending is gross. And this whole sentiment of, "People are complex, they're not fully good or bad," bringing that into a story of abuse is just dark. Like, fair, people are complex, but giving Ryle some back story so there is some "reason" for his behaviour is fairly sick. My ex-BF was all about the reasoning, all about his traumatic and sad childhood (which was genuinely horrible, and also included various shades of abuse). Ryle's pleading apologies etc are also so reminiscent of my ex-BF. It would have been amazing if Hoover, rather than giving in to Ryle's supposed justifications and the fact that he seemed contrite, brought Lily to the place where she realised that all of his begging and contrition were irrelevant, and probably not even real. He was a controlling bastard, and he would have said anything to keep her under his control. Also, how was she just dropping her kid with him, and being fine? Not even just being fine with her daugher seeing him, but being fine with her herself having contact with him? No woman I know who has had an abusive partner has felt safe around the man after she has gotten away. Friends of mine are sent into panic attacks and their lives are constantly disrupted by the feeling they have after the abuse ends. It's a PTSD, trying to avoid him and change your phone number, going through social services to let him see his kids kind of life. Colleen's perspective has been so skewed, clearly, by her own positive feelings towards her dad. This book really should have been checked over by other abuse survivors. An ideal ending would have been Lily and Atlas, living on their own somewhere far away from Boston and Ryle, and the little girl having a great life and calling Atlas, "Daddy". Ryle would be out of the picture, not allowed access to the priveleges he thought he was owed, which is exactly what he deserved.
marine-grade polymer they could never make me destroy you
lily should've faced ryle in the last battle wearing marine-grade polymer armor
waiting for the marine-grade polymer update to come to minecraft. tossing my netherite tools away bc if marine-grade polymer could keep ryle kincaid away then im going to be safe for the rest of my life 🥰
maybe marine-grade polymer is the friend we made along the way ✨
“Lily blossom bloom” sounds like a my little pony oc I’d make when I was ten(or a movie star planet account)
It's giving Warrior Cats ocs lmaoo
istg it sounds like a character they'd make fun off in a disney channel show
@@MOTHHMAN Oh my god yes 100%
I have a bad habit of giving my ocs very over the top and dramatic names (I have a character named Evangeline Sansregret and another named Lucky Seven in the same universe) but like at least I don’t repeat the same thing 3 times
You somehow managed to make this name genuinely adorable lol
If only he was strong and reliable, like marine-grade polymer
marine-grade polymer is the only dependable partner
waiting for the fics where lily gets with marine-grade polymer instead of ryle
@@orangetreestudiosII if the chair falls on her it will be abuse, so maybe not.
@@jinphany. good point 🤔
I need a partner made of marine-grade polymer frfr
The trend of marketing movies like they market it ends with us is KILLING me it’s so good. “It’s THE romantic found family movie of the year! Come see Midsommar! Don’t forget to wear your flower crown and bring your favorite stuffed bear! 😍”
🤣🤣
@@christineherrmann205 “it’s the family date night movie everyone’s raving about, come see Flowers in the Attic!”
"School's out, time for summer! Pack your sunscreen and come to camp for the thrills of Friday the Thirteen"
🤌🏽
"If youre looking for a cozy family comedy, look no further than Requiem for a Dream"
why is the fact that Lily just stayed silent for 2 min for her dad’s eulogy bc she couldn’t think of anything nice abt him kind of slay
Agreed
Okay but is CoHo actually just straight camp?
@@paranoiacomplex9680nahhh. But that one part was
@paranoiacomplex9680 if we're being generous and lying (one corny book that doesn't fawn over an abusive man will not give CoHo the camp title)
That is a win in my book
The person who said coho is for people who never had their wattpad/fanfic phase and just now are getting into reading was so right
I mean... Her Maybe series is literally a Wattpad fanfiction. She left an author note at the end of it talking about how she wanted to leave it raw and unedited to "preserve" it. That whole series was awful, made a woman with cystic fibrosis look like she was being a rude drama queen for being cheated on and not immediately getting over it. It really says a lot about how she feels about cheating. I think that was that series that made her husband mad cuz like what lol
YES!!
@@AshChiCupcak She... She published a Wattpad fanfic unedited? Like, other than maybe changing names, she just slapped that thing on as the final draft???
@@WhiteWolf-lm7gj She said she wanted to keep it authentic to it's original state, the way her fans enjoyed it. I'm sorry but if you enjoy that series, you need therapy. Her fans desperately need to see that there are better authors out there, you deserve better than Hoover.
@@AshChiCupcak I genuinely have no words. I've enjoyed more than my fair share of fanfictions, but that doesn't mean I think they should be copy pasted directly into a book. Like, ignoring the obvious differences, fanfiction generally isn't written with the same care as a published book. That's like me texting my sister about an experiment I did and trying to publish those texts as a scientific paper
Maybe she should’ve named her baby marine grade polymer in the end instead
Omg You have the first, middle, and last name!
Now I’m just reminded of Savy’s review 😂
😭😩
Polly for short.
a beautiful name for a baby girl
Can I just air a tiny, dumb greivance that is literally the least of the book/movie's problems? I hate that Lily gives birth to a girl. It is SO predictable. I personally think her having a boy would have been more impactful. Obviously, DV affects women substantially more, but we have Lily and her mother. We have the one that stays, and the one who breaks the cycle. Having her give birth to a son, and momentarily see him as her father, or as Ryle, and then deciding the same message of "it ends with us," wouldve been so much more inclusive, less predictable, and even poetic because nobody is born an abuser. Lily making it her mission to not have her daughter end up as a victim, is comenable. Lily making sure that her son doesn't become an abuser? That's heartbreaking. A lot of parents will never think of their child ever becoming a nasty person. To make her have that forthought, would've added such a richness to the message of DV, because it does start at home.
I love this
That’s way above Colleen Hoovers head
OMG yesss. they always make the kid of a victim be female so the abusive dad realizes how awful it would be if some guy did that to his daughter. but what about his andher son? that would've been so much more impactful but of course CoHo didn't think of that
I don’t think you get to decide which gender of child is affected more by domestic abuse. Gross.
As a mom to 3 boys (and a girl) this is spot on. There are literally 4 men in this world that I trust and feel safe with, and I’m raising 3 of them.
My oldest son has a girlfriend, and I am on his ass to make sure he respects her, her autonomy, and sees her as a whole person outside of their relationship. So far, I think the effort is paying off. He’s treating her the way she deserves to be treated even without me checking in… but I just need to know and make sure, because I’m not out here raising the next generation of emotionally stunted abusers.
Booktok should never be forgiven for making Colleen Hoover books more popular than they needed to be 😭
The highlight is that anyone who likes her and or her book is a universal red flag alarm.
Absolutely!
They were already too popular! And then it got even worse!!!
@@pixieinxur so right, i should have realized this when i met my ex friend lmao
wasn't this also what indirectly lead to the shut down of zlibrary
well obviously it's safe for him to be around the kid, since babies/young children famously never inspire feelings of impatience, frustration, etc. that could push someone prone to rage blackouts over the edge
That’s why I hated this book in no way would you let him have a relationship with his daughter after what happened to you he hadn’t changed and now it’s your responsibility to take care of your kid
Yeah....my stepdad is emotionally abusive to my mom, but guess what?? He was also abusive to me and my siblings. I still have flashbacks and panic attacks when I hear men shouting. My mom is desperately trying to get him to have a positive relationship with his younger kids, so I can understand Lily's impulse, though. Sometimes, when you are an abuse victim, you desperately want to believe that there is good in their abuser somewhere.
Shits rough.
@@chriswildfire the state would absolutely force her to let him have a relationship with the kid. at worst they'll require supervision for a year, but without a DV conviction they will absolutely drop that requirement after a year of good behavior.
@@sockstorm07 that’s why I don’t get this movie she didn’t go to the police need to provide proof somehow
It's also wild considering her father abused her mother in front of her for almost her entire life????
If you feel insecure about your writing, just know that Colleen Hoover exists.
Thank you.
💯💯
This channel is a real confidence boost
And Penelope Douglas
With her hundreds of thousand of dollars 🥲🥲 gonna start writing shit instead
19:22 The fact that Lily’s flower shop is dark and edgy and Hot Topic themed, but the book cover is pastel pink and bright and romantic and dainty... is so absurd. Like, at least stick with your own theme, CoHo!! 😂
Well to be fair authors don't usually have a say on the cover of their book esp traditionally published
yeo would also fit together with the dv theme. Flowers are sweet and beautiful but so many of them are dangerous. The book wouldn't be good but at least it would be consistent.
A dark flower shop is an insane concept on so many levels
@@j.g.3293 Flowers wrapped in.... leather.
@@j.g.3293 I mean, gothic lolita is a thing. The problem is Lily opted for the mall goth aesthetic instead.
Something crazy to me is that the only thing that separates this guy from the other colleen Hoover love interests is that he’s physically abusive. every love interests in her books are serial daters but get aggressively possessive and say and do the most creepy shit imaginable but the only difference from him and the others is that he hits her
Especially with November 9, like that guy is a DICK! Coho has many personal issues to work through, rather than write her books like that...
True, and that's also what makes ryles abuse seem so random, bc he randomly pushes her one day, when in actuality many abusers would show signs of being controlling early on, as do coho's other love interests do
From memory, the guy in Slammed doesn't hit his love interest (who is his *high-school student* 🤢🤮) but he does physically force her into a freezing shower, and also dumps a jug of water on her. I know it's not physically damaging, but it is using force to be intimidating and threatening. He also beats up another of his students quite severely, for having the audacity to hit on his high-school student girlfriend. So some of her other love interests are physically violent, but it's usually the type of abuse that's "I'm punching walls/inanimate objects so I don't punch you" (which is often a precursor to the more overt physical abuse). The guy from Maybe never is a 🍇ist too. But you're right, it's sickening that CoHo wants IEWU to be taken seriously as a dv awareness story when every other love interest is as bad or worse than Ryle and doesn't get called out
@@xoPotatoTreexo shocking too considering she was coming out with an iewu COLOURING BOOK at one point. this is not the dv awareness book/movie some people are making it out to be, there are better ones out there with better people behind them that are more responsible.
Is it wrong to say that nov 9 guy was way worse than ryle?
Colleen compartmentalizing her father's abuse of her mother actually explains a LOT about her books and the men/relationships she writes.
i was just ab to comment this but i wanted to see if anyone else clocked that too!! i hate 'daddy issues' as a label slapped on every woman who isnt perfectly well adjusted in relationships, but it makes so much sense how her love interests' shitty actions are always treated as forgivable- as long as they 'love' the protagonist. it kind of operates on the 'one big terrible action/ two weeks of bliss' model she describes in this book.
Yeahhhh seeing that level of dysfunction and red flags but still viewing it as love or the guy being a good person....
Unfortunately yes. It explains a lot but it excuses nothing.
And her son's inappropriate behavior to a MINOR girl. Like I'm sure Colleen Hoover isn't a horrible person irl and is pretty nice, but you would've assumed she(and her husband) would teach their sons to respect women after everything their grandmother has been through. But i kinda see because of how screwed up Colleen Hoover's men in her other books justified them because "they have trauma". Like I know her books are fiction but she-a grown woman and a mother should have realized how her works would affect her sons. If her sons read or know about her books(they are grown adults so they probably know of it) and the way the men mistreat their love interest they probably got in their head like-oh, it's fine to mistreat women because MY mom is okay with that."
But I don't want to put the blame on Colleen. It's 100% her son's fault for being disgusting. I want to put my opinion because I personally knew my r@pist who has anger issues and I saw how he never was taught to learn common decency and his punishment was "no videos games" or "no spending time with friends", and I wondered so many men in our society are so messed up because their parents never taught them respect and never gave them real punishments.
Also I think Colleen Hoover thinks that men being disgusting is okay because she either was raised with disgusting men(besides her dad)around and thinks their behavior is okay.
Edit: I was never abused by my r@pist physically, but I remember how he always wanted to wrestle with me(Because I wasn't into girly things and I pefer to be with boys at that time)and he was always bigger and so he would always win. I wonder if there's any physcologist to explain if he liked wrestling with me because he was in control and had power over me(he couldn't fight his siblings because he would get in trouble).
@@laraharvey5780 The daddy issues label is so strange because, due to how fucked our society is, having daddy issues is way too common and doesnt discern
When Ryle was trying to justify his anger and abuse as blackouts and lack of control all I could think of was this section from Bancroft's book:
"Anyone who believes that abusers lose control of themselves should peer through the window when the police enter a home. Hundreds of women have told me: 'It’s as if he could flick a switch. The police arrive, and he’s suddenly cool as a cucumber. Meanwhile, I’m freaking out, so of course they think something is wrong with me. They don’t believe he could settle down that fast.' If abusers truly had tremendous problems managing their anger, if they were as emotionally vulnerable or deeply injured from childhood as they often maintain, they wouldn’t be able to shut themselves off like a faucet as soon as a cop knocks on the door."
- Lundy Bancroft "Why Does He Do That?"
If anyone is interested it's available online for free.
Sooo well said!!
Yes. Ditto he knows not to talk to her like a dog in front of her friends and family. So much for "he just loves me so much he loses control when I hurt him". 'Cos, you know, he FEELS so much.
@@ShidachiOm Yes, such a classic abuser line - "but I just love you so much, the thought of losing you makes me lose my mind," yada yada, blah blah. The fact that colleen just leaves the clasic abuser explanation stuff in there unquestioned is quite horrible.
I always wondered if the ''I don't remember'', was just that. It wasn't remarkable, or something the abuser cares enough to remember.
"you had to slap your forehead with your hand like you're homer simpson? i would have jumped off the rooftop right there."
I laughed OUT LOUD so hard lmao
same💀 “it ends with us. literally” PLEASE
The way her name is literally just flower flower flower, atlas is her world and Ryle gets riled up 💀
But seriously though I think it’s great that Ryle isn’t justified within the narrative, the problem is he has similar traits to all her other “romantic” heroes so in other novels she does romanticize this type of man
Don't forget Atlas helps by holding her burdens for her
It’s just so corny good god
Yeah, if 9/10 times you frame these actions as romantic, the 1/10 is far less impactful
@@blueyeshadow2738 lol Flower Flower Flower. Lol
These are jk rowling level names
The sister of Ryle not warning Lily about his issues with rage and self-harm before they started dating is VERY real in a terrible way. Many women who are related to or friends with abusive or problematic men/women/folks will excuse their behaviors and try to uptalk them, sort of like a self-soothe for being related to a person with these issue whom they also love. It's amazing how often trauma regarding intimacy and sex is added to romance stories directed at women, when men need to be aware of these behaviors that are dangerous and harmful more than women do, so that they don't do it, don't remain silent about it, get mental health support to avoid becoming this person, but also know that they can experience abuse too. If you find yourself in an abusive relationship, whether there is physical violence or not, your safety matters MORE than their feelings.
To be more real, it tends to start with offhand sussy comments first: backhanded compliments, sarcastic gratitude, fake pity comments, waspish comments, complaints about your relationships with people other than them, pouting, impatience, etc. Then angry silence and/or cursing loudly. Then yelling, then cussing you out over nothing, slamming things around the home, invading your privacy, then invading your space, going through your things, touching you without permission, using intimacy to manipulate your feelings and thoughts on their behavior, apologizing but in a way that STILL blames you as if you're equally at fault for the violence, then damaging themselves or your things for either sympathy or to get back at you, and if you're still with them through ALL of that, THEN they hurt you physically. This is why Red Flags are a thing, to draw attention to these warning signs that they are NOT safe to be with. The same rule applies to friends and family. They'll say it's an accident. It's not. They'll say it's never going to happen again. It does. You don't accidentally throw someone against a wall, a fridge, a car, a door, etc. You don't accidentally shove someone. You might want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but be kinder to yourself instead, because you know that violence isn't about you, and you don't deserve it. No one does. You don't accidentally punch or choke someone. Many domestic violence survivors compartmentalize the way Hoover portrayed it, and I think her pointing that out, is for those who are abused to recognize that internal mental back&forth and that they did that EXACT downplaying of the actions of their abuser like Lily does, using that same language. I know a few personal examples of this.
Many survivors of DV who fought back, and ended up using fatal methods to end their torture (That's what DV is, it's defined as torture equivalent to POWs with symptoms like PTSD stemming from those experiences) are later blamed for not leaving sooner to avoid killing their abuser. There are organizations working to change sentencing for survivors of DV.
I'll say it again, if you find yourself in an abusive relationship, whether there is physical violence or not, your safety and well-being matter MORE than their feelings/reputation/job/housing. www.thehotline.org/ is a good resource for how to make plans to leave your partner. If you need to click away to avoid your partner looking through your browser you can press the Red X in the corner to rapid exit then clear your search history.
Thank you for the resource ❤️
This comment needs more likes; the detailed warning signs and helpline are perfect. Thank you so much.
“Ryle, Lily Blossom Bloom, Atlas, Emerson Dory”
Colleen girly has some talent in naming her characters 😭😭😭
Someone said she named him Ryle because he's easily riled on 😭
This is the normal reaction to Every coho book. Like what do you mean that woman is named Lake??
She's like the jk Rowling of poorly written contemporary 'romance'
@@Flareontoastwait Lake is kind of a cool name 😭
@@samash7302 using names that make me yell the name out in frustration and rage like wtf
I’m still in disbelief over the fact they tried making an “It Ends With Us” COLOURING BOOK.
jesus christ on a stick, wtf???
HUHHHH????????
Imagine coloring in domestic violence scenes 😭
Let's be real, Verity would have made a MUCH more interesting coloring book.
HOLD UP, THEY TRIED FOR THIS BOOK? ABSOLUTELY NOT.👀💀
Oh my God the way you described Grave of the Fireflies like a Booktok book is so jarring yet so true
I almost yelled at that 😭
The "Bring your kids!" part had me almost scream "NO!" 😂
I snorted SO hard at that
Yeah I ugly cried watching that movie, just snot and tears mixing on my face... It's a rough movie 😅
I don't think the part where Ryle gives his excuse for why he's abusive is a way to make him sympathetic, I think it just shows how abusers try to garner your sympathy. His excuse is pretty much incomprehensible and makes zero sense but it makes him sound like a victim and makes her feel like if she leaves him, she's abandoning a damaged man and not leaving an abusive piece of shit.
I agree but I really think it was an accidental level of nuance. CoHo doesn’t have that much of a writing skill to be that deep.
@@MoonShadow333 LMAO literally, it's a very realistic thing but it sounds like she's just regurgitating it instead of understanding anything underneath the surface level
Agreed, a lot of this book calls to mind not just the reality of many battered women's experiences, but the book Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. Things like "He lost control, it happens sometimes, he just entered a blind rage" followed by the question of-but that blind rage was only directed at you, at your things. He wasn't throwing around and breaking his own things, he doesn't do this at work, he doesn't treat his friends like this. I'm not a Colleen Hoover fan but she got this part, with the kinds of excuses abusers will often make, down pretty well imo.
But the narrative doesn’t dispute it in any way, that’s the issue.
X2 @@ultravioletpisces3666
41:33 "he thrusts apologetically 😩 I am sorry 😩 I am so sorry " 😂😂😂😂
I got to say watching Colleen Hoover being so popular that her books spreads to other continents is scaaaryy like in Europe you can’t even enter book store or gas station without being directly jumpscared by her books IN FRENCH. This isn’t NATURAL. the horrors. I feel like a victorian child seeing the first few rats that carried the plague.
Nice pfp
Oh God yes. They’re like a virus. Just waiting on the eventual Irish translation to really bring home how insanely popular her books are.
I get jumpscared whenever I see her books in public places
Ah ! La vile gueuse prolifère tel la peste
Oh my God, I live in Vietnam and even here I see Colleen Hoover in bookstores. Never thought it was possible
Not Lily sharing custody with her abuser??? With a man who is known to have violent blackouts???? PLEASE
I have to give the benefit of the doubt and assume it was court ordered but it's weird to not see Lily be fazed at all by this
Keeping a pregnancy from an abuser is wild. Naming the kid after his manslaughter victim is next-level unhinged
Speaking from personal experience - my bio father went to prison for a time because he nearly killed my mom and hurt me physically when I was 4. He got out two years later partially on "good behavior", and despite even MORE physical abuse incidents happening after serving time, a judge still ordered joint custody.
Thankfully he was also mostly a deadbeat so he wasn't around a lot, but even with my mom trying to push against the custody agreement it never got changed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It turned out okay since he finally just permanently left us / me when I was 12, so it wasn't a bit concern after that but still.
@@emersonmcdaniel2023 thank you for sharing your story, I'm sorry you and your mom had to go through that, truly.
I like to think Lily Blossom Bloom is the perky, upbeat preppy sister of Enoby Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way
NOT ENOBY. IM DYING 😭
enoby, ya been eboby/egogy/TaEbory??
HELP LMAOOO
the “happy ending” being that the baby is going to grow up with an abusive father 😭 true to life though!
Ur sadly right
Tbh one of the worst things about this book is that it proves that she's capable of writing healthier love interests like Atlas, and CONTINUES TO WRITE ONES LIKE RILE. Like all of her leading men are so abusive that they're practically indistinguishable from Rile outside of the physical abuse. And for her adults fans, whatever I guess, read your trash, but way too many kids and teens are reading her stuff 😭
Maybe she equates domestic abuse as ONLY physical abuse, which is so problematic on its own.
I don’t think Atlas is “healthy” he just looks better in comparison.
Atlas isn't healthy at all. He's a groomer and a creep. He was a legal adult (literally going on 19) when she was only 15 and waited for her to turn 16 to finally sleep with her 💀 And that's just the part of it. Nevermind everything else, like being sexual with her before she turned "legal". This book's biggest blunder is making abuse selective. Both Ryle and Atlas are terrible and do similar things, but only one is deemed abusive while the other is "romantic" because apparently the true love interest's behaviour can't possibly be bad or problematic. I don't know how this book managed to accurately portray abuse while still romanticising it in the same breath, but it did. Hooray?
@@fruityfruitpunch Ah, damn 😔 I haven't read it myself, so I was kind of assuming when Cindy said he was 18 it was a just turned 18 situation and that she'd be turning 16 soon (like a sophomore and senior in highschool dating). In hindsight I don't know why I would assume that with her?? 💀💀 It definitely feels like the only abuse CH thinks is abusive is physical abuse, which . . . yeah . . .
@@fruityfruitpunch In my defense I did say "healthier", because even without reading it I figured CH is incapable of writing a truly healthy love interest 😂😭 The bar is already so low and she's been digging for years
the way i struggle with writing one line without feeling insecure while Colleen wrote this whole book and thought "yep it's good to go" 💀 it really is about confidence ig
👆💯
this is so real
why is her writing bad?
@@fabo.5040technique is the top one
Yup!!! This is something which actively reminds me that a lot of people are kinda dumb and it’s enough to be mediocre
Every time I walk in a book store and see a whole Colleen section I start foaming at the mouth and shaking
I work in a bookstore... that is my everyday and I hate it so much 🤢
here in Brazil there's a whole section just dedicated to her, and i just what to cry because there are so many better books from Brazilian authors that aren't getting the same attention
@@mylenacunha9628 simm. E saber que essa bomba dela virou filme.. o tanto de gente que vai querer ler, principalmente adolescentes.. isso é muito preocupante.
I actually walked into a B&N the other day and there wasn’t a CoHo book on any of the tables. It gave me hope for humanity.
In my country's version of b&n there's a whole section of English books with the name booktok made me buy it 😐😐😐😐😐
The marine grade polymer is reaching galvanized steel levels by how often its mentioned
I googled the difference between stainless and galvanised steel and this came up:
"Stainless steel is almost always more robust than galvanized steel. So if structural elements are involved, stainless will likely be a better bet. Stainless steel provides stronger corrosion resistance than galvanized steel -- especially in marine environments."
Marine grade stainless steel?
@@sabihasayeed1670this changes EVERYTHING
A lot of people with terrible/abusive relationships do try to keep their kids out of it and try not let that affect the kids because so many people have this idea that kids "need" both parents. When my parents split that's what my mom did, even though the reason she left my dad, as I found out years later, was because they had a fight where he got so angry she genuinely believed he would have killed if not for my (at the time) 5 YEAR OLD SISTER running back and forth between both of them saying "I love you mommy" and "I love you daddy" (I was at a friend's place for a sleepover at the time so I wasn't a witness to this). Even despite having a restraining order against him they had an agreement where she had custody but we went to out dad's house during his days off. To be fair my father was never physically abusive with us but growing up he was emotionally abusive, always insulting our mom around us, criticizing and demeaning us, and CONSTANT guilt tripping (I once had a phone conversation where I told him I didn't like how he guilt tripped us and he said "well maybe I'll go kill myself then" which yikes). It reached a point where I cut him out of my life and he got way worse (fell into substance abuse and absolutely TRAUMATIZING my sister).
He has since gotten help for his substance abuse and sought professional counseling and to his credit he has improved and had stopped with the guilt tripping, and manipulation, and I do actually have a good relationship with him now. I don't hate him, despite all the hurt because I know that he had his own issues, most of which came to light when he actually got professional help, but despite our improved relationships I can never really trust him with certain things like money (since a sign he's relapsing is that he starts asking EVERYONE for money) and if ever shows sign of being a condescending asshole again to me, my sister or my sister's kid then I'm out.
And the pattern has continued: my sister is in the middle of divorcing her abusive soon-to-be husband (I'm not gonna into specifics here but while he's not physically abusive he's been VERY emotionally abusive and has demeaned and controlled her in horrible ways that she's still dealing with today). My sister left with her kid but even when she was at the point where she knew she had to leave him she still wanted him to have a relationship with their kid (Despite him never actually doing anything to care for their kid during their marriage). And he used that as a manipulation tactic to threaten to take full custody away from her, a mistake on his part tbh, because now my sister, who is a great mom and loves her kid more than anyone, is now going to court for custody and she's almost guaranteed to get. Anyway he hasn't seen his kid in-person for a year (despite my sister telling him that he can visit), barely interacts with his kid through video chats so sucks to suck LOSER. And as a bonus my sister is in a new relationship now with a guy who is great for her and HER kid (who adores him, probably more than her bio father actually) so a happy ending there at least!
Humans are complicated that's true but Colleen's portrayal of that "complication" is cartoonishly simplistic with no understanding for how people actually behave. And I can understand loving your dad, even if he has been abusive but ma'am this is not it all. Abuse is SO much more than hitting and the "apologizing" after. Sorry for the long comment this video brought up a lot of thoughts (tm) I have about abuse portrayals and why so many of them are so shallow.
Thank u so much for sharing these personal stories. Ironically it has more depth about abuse than the book itself
@@withcindy I mean the impression I got from you video is its not that hard to. Funny enough I also come from a social work/psychology background so I guess I have truly surpassed Ms Hoover with my comment lol.
Thanks for sharing. Be kind to your sister. (I'm sure you are.) I agree with your assessment of the book. As long as we live in this society women (mostly) are going to gravitate towards simplify these horrors in "fantasy" books like these. What we can do is keep reading (and writing) better books.
if i had a flower name and was a florist i would jump head first branding myself that way
When I was a student in fashion design one of the girls in my class had for last name "Couturier" which means dress maker/fashion designer in French and I thought it was such a good name to have as a fashion student
@@noracharef6901 so cool
the constant mentions of marine-grade polymer had me cackling, i'm imagining it's like those tiktoks about glycine from donghua jinlong
Epic pfp
about what from what what
Food grade! Don't forget it!
@@lalalazarusyou really need to get into high quality food grade glycine by donghua jinlong its so the world
That marine grade polymer chair was a sponsorship deal, it has to be.🤣
I will say this time and time again. As a literal romance author, I hate that she uses trauma as a “plot twist” in a genre that should not have plot twists like that. The fact that I firmly believe authors should include trigger warnings in their books is my Roman Empire.
As an author myself, I agree. I'm also baffled by how romance now includes rape as romance and beatings are allowed as long as they end up together, and they don't even have to end up together. I've beta'd some very confusing books that are more psych thrillers as I knew them, but because there's sex and something akin to a relationship, however toxic, it's not romance?!
I also content-warning my books. I hate the phrase "trigger warning." Ironically, that phrase can be hard for people who deal with trauma related to guns. I only...y'know...saw my dad pull the trigger on a gun aimed at his head moments after aiming it at me.... Hearing "trigger warning" makes me think of that every time, and there's no want to "trigger warning" the phrase. CONTENT warning is better.
Now we need a movie reaction with Elias 🥺
💯💯YESSSSSS
Hoping we can film one together!!
👀!
Omg please make this happen- I miss the twilight series with him lol
👍👏🙌 please & thank you
Every time Cindy reads “dot dot dot” out loud I vow to never use elipses in my writing
cindy i can’t clown you cause that scene with ryle begging on his knees would get me too 😔
Omg we have issues
Actually I need to clarify that I would have succumbed if he was a random hot dude begging, NOT if I knew he was an abuser like ryle 💀
@@withcindy allosexuals are truly weird 😭😭 I would’ve yelled ew and kicked him out
Please the clarification 😭
I would've cringed soooooo hard ... But yeah, same 😆
I do think with the black outs form anger, you're right. Someone with a condition like that could be very dangerous to be a doctor, that's why i always thought that he was consciously or unconsciously manipulating her into feeling sorry for him so she would stay, and use her as rehabilitation center.
emotional tampon.
If every CoHo book took domestic abuse and bad male behavior as seriously as this one does, I don’t think she would have the terrible reputation she does. She’d just be harmlessly cringe instead of a blight on romance and literature.
This book doesn't take it seriously enough though.
Thing is, even the abuse here is very surface level portrayal. And considering her other books, doesnt seem like she knows what abuse is
@@barbararab6390it really feels like she learned from (possibly her mom) to compartmentalize abuse and terrible actions as means of coping with trauma and learning to forgive her father to be able to have her in his life.
people are a combination of ther words, actions, and thoughts, but thoughts are empty and words are insignificant if actions stay the same... something that seems lost on her
The end of the book really should have just been “It ends with us, Ryle.” *gets an abortion and leaves*
that would've been my ending fr
I'm constantly head-cannoning fictional abortions.
My grandfather was an EXTREMELY violent man--my mother has chosen to forgive him since he has passed away but my little brother and I just can't. So uuhhhh, that epilogue combined with those acknowledgements made me wince.
No, facts. That entire thing kills me. What do you mean he beat the shit out of your mom so badly that he broke bones? Absolutely not, especially if you say "I love my mom!" Like nah.
I feel like you can't say that and just be completely fine with the abuse.
Also hell the fuck not. I would never trust someone who could have killed me to not kill my kid. That's terrifying.
"thanks to my dad, I promise to remember you for all the good times :)
Colleen Hoover could have GREATLY benefitted from first reading "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft. In it, he debunks many myths around abusers, particularly the whole "blackout" myth.
Like you said, if Ryle had actual rage blackouts, it would affect other aspects of his life. Abusers are not blacked out. It is a calculated act to regain control of the person they feel entitled to (typically their SO/spouse or children).
She also, in defending her father for not abusing her, ignores the fact that spouses often absorb the abuse to deflect from their children. If her mother had left her father and left her with him, then he likely would have redirected the abuse towards her.
Ryle seems almost like a Jekyll and Hyde situation. Like CoHo wanted to include abuse but also wanted a hot sympathetic love interest so she made him black out during his "evil" moments to make it easier to like him
Honestly having a guy be so filled with rage that he blacks out as he commits violence is so damn scary. Like he'd be gaslighting you the whole damn time.
Except Jekyll never blacks out, he just shape shifts into Hyde, Jekyll allows himself to be a bitch because there won't be consequences. Which makes the comparison stronger cause Ryle did that shit consciously
Yes and that’s part of the problem.
She's actually said in interviews that she wants readers to love him as much as she does. Present tense. As much as she loves him currently. Despite knowing he's abusive.
She drank the koolaid of when men say “I lost control”. but he doesn’t “lose control” at work, around his family, around his friends. Funny that
I will admit that while It Ends with Us has many (many) flaws, I do like the way Colleen Hoover attempted to ground the abuse in reality. During my first reading of the book at 16, I kept thinking “well, Ryle wasn’t *that* bad” or “C’mon, she’s getting mad over a push?” then, I took a step back years later, only realizing that that’s the way abuse victims stay in shitty relationships, by comparing abuse and making excuses for their abusers
EDIT: This isn’t me praising CoHo, just making a note. She’s a shitty person who defended her son’s SA. Just wanted to make that observation
I don't like the inclusion of Atlas' character because it inadvertently lends some credibility to Ryle's feelings. He's wrong to abuse Lily but correct that she has been in love with Atlas for years and will eventually go back to this guy once Ryle is out of the picture. It would be more plausible if Ryle were jealous of other men Lily has interacted with and that this is a longer-running pattern.
Also, someone who abuses usually follows a similar pattern with multiple partners, but everything about Ryle's relationship with Lily seems to be the exception for him. Rather than quickly escalating, he usually keep his relationships more casual. Lily can feel that the abuse is connected to how special she is to Ryle because it apparently is. Unless she learns in another passage that Ryle's relationships tend to not last very long specifically because of his rage issues, but I think Cindy would have included that because it's plot relevant.
Yeah, I mentioned towards the end that it would have been good to see a buildup of ryle's abuse being not just jealous rage incidents from Atlas but seemingly minuscule stuff like him being jealous of a customer etc! It is mentioned in the beginning of the book when he was courting Lily that he was not a relationship guy and prefers one night stands, so I guess you could infer that he was like that to avoid getting deep with someone due to his issues? But he still should have brought this up to Lily before getting serious. Although again, it sounds like the rage issues were not a problem before cuz we have had no other example of it
I feel like the chair kicking could've been an attempt at foreshadowing his rage blackouts but from how cindy described it it definitely does NOT give "something is wrong with this dude" vibes (aside from the obvious "dude why are you wailing on a chair wtf")
But yeah there's not really a buildup of more insidious red flags that Lily could've missed *because* of her upbringing normalizing that shit, so it ends up coming across as very sudden and "She's Just Special™" which is. One hell of a message to give about an abuse survivor omg
Like REALLY you are making a male foil white knight for the ABUSER??????
HUUUH???????????????? LIKE BISH WE COMPARING THIS MAN TO AN ABUSER??????????
The first time he pushes her was before the Atlas stuff, when he burned his hand.
as someone who does have a medical issue that involves issues with regulating anger, to a far lesser extent to whats portrayed here, and who has family members with the same issue... this medical issue is one of the notable reasons why I decided I didn't want kids. not the only reason, and as I've gotten better at regulating my anger with age and outside help, not even one of the main reasons anymore, and obviously not everyone who has these medical issues has to choose the same as me... but I hate how the book portrays this so much. fucking so much
Thank u for sharing and I'm glad to see it's gotten better as u worked on regulating it ❤️
1:18:12 her not being abused by the father might be what turned her into an apologist for bad men. “He never did anything bad to me,” which I highly doubt. He just… gaslit her and taught her to minimize his behavior and blame herself or circumstances or whatever.
Okay see I didn't have this context until just now, about her good relationship with her abusive dad but now, I have the same thought. Like because she likes her dad, she doesn't wanna upset him so she just goes around writing all these "misunderstood abusers" like...that might actually be it?🤔
“Lily Blossom Bloom” and “Atlas” are such 2014 Wattpad romance and fantasy book names
I was literally playing LnD with Cindy in the background, and lemme tell you I JUMPED out of my seat when I suddenly heard "Love and Deepspace" lmao. Never thought the day would come but here we are
Omg full circle moment
FR
41:10 I'm sorry but "his sorrow comes in another form. Slow, apologetic thrusts inside of me" is one of the most unserious Colleen Hoover lines of all time 😭
WHAT IS THAT LINE PLEASE 😭
Tbh, this is the only CoHo book I like. Even her die-hard fans say this is her best work. So if this is her best, then it all goes down from here
It truly ends with us
It literally does go down hill
I also think that Lily passing out/being knocked out when the active abuse is happening is a great way for Colleen to avoid having to actually empathize with the moment of experiencing physical abuse from a partner. If she did, she probably wouldn't still call her father her Dear Old Daddy or whatever.
Not just that but being struck so hard you lose consciousness is usually a sign of having received potentially severe brain damage. Made even worse coz he’s a neurosurgeon who knows better. Mans would def be pro-lobotomy back in the day. The story could have very well ended with her being pregnant and a vegetable
To be fair... I would NOT want to read a described physical abuse scene written by Colleen
TRUE!! @@withcindy
Great video, but disappointed by the lack of marine grade polymer 😔
A disappointingly little amount of marine grade polymer indeed
You should have filmed from a very cheap patio chair
1:19:43 as someone who experiensed exactly this, you are SO right. this book's understanding of abuse seems so shallow, and it comes across as if colleen hoover sees her own father in ryle and that's the reason she tries to "redeem" him in some way. it's as if she just doesn't want to admit that abusers, including her father, just generally aren't good people, and tbh i can't blame her bc this understanding by itself is very traumatic. i think it's her best book tho, simply bc she seems genuine about it and i guess her intentions are in the right place. her other books where male love interests behave exactly like ryle make it look like a joke tho lol
upd forgot to mention that the means by which coho tries to "redeem" ryle, this whole "he's actually a good person he just has these moments where he's not really himself guys i swear he's actually decent" is exactly how domestic abuse victims justify staying with and still loving their abusers. which is REALLY SAD if you think about it and it makes you question did she really have a good relationship with her father or it's just something that she tells herself to protect her view of the world. this is very upsetting
I'm sorry u had to deal with that
@@withcindy i think she just forgot that there are also "bad people who do good things" which is a way more realistic depiction of a domestic abuser imo (although it's kinda the same thing, the first way of wording is just safer for your psyche)
and yeah she totally failed at writing "complexity", i don't think that "rage blackouts" are the right trope for the character and message she was going for, it's just shifting the blame off of him which feeds into my theory about her projecting her father onto ryle
ty for your kind words btw!
@@alex_brokenthe message is very heavy handed in the book and it definitely could have been executed better. But I think of it as the good doesn’t cancel out the bad, but whether or not the bad outweighs the good depends on the situation and the person. I get what Hoover is trying to say. It reminds me of memoirs about traumatic childhoods such as Angela’s Ashes or The Glass Castle. The writers come to the conclusion that the “good parts” and the “bad parts” of their parent exist equally. But at some point, there is also a breaking point on how much the good can outweigh the bad in a person (parent)
Lily's "Let's make a flower shop for people who HATE flowers >:}" feels so silly and like something I would have come up with writing Flower Shop!AU fanfic in 7th grade, especially with my 7th grade understanding of the Dark(tm) or Goffik Edge aesthetic
edit: ALSO, her father had to get knuckles replaced from how hard/often he beat her mother--but he was her best friend and a kind handsome charming good man :) Tell me how you actually feel about your mother, Colleen.
The part about coho's dad... then I understand why this book feels so out of touch
That's a not uncommon dissonance though. The kids do sometimes look up to the abusive parent because they seem strong.
@@valolafson6035 Colleen was a grown woman (with children of her own) at the time of writing this. She's not a kid anymore.
0:10 LMAOOOOO this is genius
Is there a youtube channel you don't watch
@PokhrajRoy keeps the youtube community afloat
@@sakshishinde1939 Hahaha too many to count
@@withcindy Haha I try
... those end notes are profoundly blind and sad. The ability of her brain to compartimentalize and minimize him as a horrendous abuser, like in the balance of this man's life, because his child thought he was a good father, it barely signified how badly and how often he beat her mother.
Regarding the book itself, maybe Colleen should have used Ryle's sister as a narrative tool - successful abusers have to groom the people around them, would make sense he would groom his sister to have a sort of character witness at all times, always ready to jump in to excuse it. Or minimize it. But perhaps that would require a level of self awareness that Colleen doesn't have about her own life.
Colleen is the baby, that's why she is allowed a relationship with Ryle. Colleen's dad didn't hurt her, therefore Ryle wouldn't hurt Emerson. That's why I think she lacks a deeper and honest understanding of the situation - she wrote them as her parents, and the baby as her. She may say that every situation is different but then she wrote the ending setting up that much like she views her father as good, Emerson will as well.
It's a toxic and sad worldview to carry around, no matter her trying to explain it.
Also... let's assume Ryle never hurts Lily or Emerson. Are we supposed to forget about that time that Lily'a father almost beat Atlas to death...? Good luck to any guy Emerson sleeps with, Ryle will have a rage blackout and since he will also by then be a successful, respected member of society, with plenty of defenders, he might also ger away with it =D
Very well said
It didn't end with us, it seems
As someone who experienced domestic violence by the hands of a parental figure I think him being a neuroscientist is so accurate because the person who hurt me was a firefighter. These people are always in roles like firefighter nurse etc to cover up their abuse. There had to be some psychological behind this but it seems that some of the most heroic titles like nurse cop firefighter and even neuroscientist are given to the most horrific people. Now of course this is not always the case but him being a neuroscientist makes so much sense to me because my abuser was a firefighter who was loved by his community. And a switch did go on and off. When we was at home he was either relaxed or full of rage and anger as quick as a light switch. I know it sounds crazy but these people who do these types of things really know how to play a role and it’s easy to fall for these type of guys honestly. Just my two cents but thank you for reading this book and giving us the cliff notes 💙🫡
There have been lots of studies that showed this! It's so unfortunate because they can hide behind a veneer of doing public good while acting horrible behind closed doors
neurosurgeons are known to be huge dicks in the medical community so there's that
also really sorry that happened to you and i hope ur doing much better rn
Yeah! My abusive stepdad is a janitor and substitute teacher who is loved by the kids at the school he works at, but when he comes home its like a switch being flipped. He manages to be sweet to kids he barely knows but can't be good to his own children 💀
Dennis Lehane’s detective series, starting with A DRINK BEFORE THE WAR, is exactly this. The protagonist’s abusive father is a beloved firefighter. It’s chilling. Lehane worked with abused children before becoming a novelist so he must have seen some of this. He has no sympathy for it.
Aside: same book, an abused woman, and it portrays why she stays with deep understanding.
One of my favorite books and authors ever.
i still can't believe they made a movie based on a CoHo novel😭😭 I'm so happy you've covered this one though i love your roast videos!!!
They also made Confess into a series, but I doubt a lot of people know about it. 😂
Verity was also picked to be a movie
I believe regretting you is also going to be a movie.
I think the biggest issue I have with "It Ends With Us" is that Colleen Hoover tries to portray abuse as nuanced by portraying Ryle as someone in pain. While his pain may be real, that is still never an excuse for him to abuse people in the way that he did with Lily and Hoover's choice to have joint custody with Emerson at the end of the book is so terrifying at the possibilities of the cycle of abuse continuing even if Lily tried to break it
In Hoover’s defense (i can’t believe Im writing this), it takes a lot of evidence to prove that the abusive husband can be abusive to the kid in a custody agreement. Most of the time, partial custody is still granted even if the wife was abused afaik. So it’s just realistic. I still agree with Cindy’s opinion that the ending of Lily deciding to divorce Rile was a solid one, even if it is iffy that Rile still has custody. But well, that’s kind of how it is in real life.
The drama around the movie is insane! The actor who plays the ab*ser is the only one who spoke about DV and seriousness of this issue, while the rest of the cast act as if it is a cute funny romcom
The Grave of the Fireflies being described as crazy adventure is insane!!
Okay I was looking for this comment lol
Leyla has a brilliant video about this book and was so apt in saying 'THE BOOK DOESN'T KNOW WHAT IT'S DOING!!'
and you were spot on! as someone who was groomed & was in an abusive relationship, the depiction of ryle was the one (1) thing that bothered me to my core while reading this book even if i excused the weird/misogynistic/homophobic/bad writing stuff. it was very triggering to see the entire narrative of 'there are no bad people, only people with bad actions'. the hoops that coho goes through to get the audience to understand/sympathise with ryle (the 'reason' for his rage blackouts, the custody of their child) made me so sick because so many people fell for it too!! and that's why we have all these straight women STILL being 'well, ryle had mental health issues! and lily should not have kept those letters! it was partially her fault!' like i cannot imagine someone reading a story of me escaping my abuser and then come out seeing my abuser in any redemptive light or worse, blamed me for my abuse. there are other things which bother me too (like how ryle's sister was the sole female character to help lily, the creepy stuff with atlas etc etc) but the depiction of ryle was just retraumatizing.
I'm so glad you're out of that relationship ❤️
I wonder if the constant mention of marine grade polymer was Colleen’s poor attempt to make it some sort of symbol of Lilly’s resilience?
Yes. That’s what I’ve seen fans of hers saying online
@@planetaryray7119😭😭😭
@@m1kayla143 I wondered if CoHo’s somehow connected to a marine grade polymer business.
@@planetaryray7119what 💀
i've seen a couple people on twitter share the belief that the reason why books like this have gotten so popular is that there's a lot of women who didn't have fanfiction phases growing up and honestly? that definitely feels like it could be a contributing factor
i completely agree w your take on how colleen's "forgiveness" of abusers is just so weird. with her dad, colleen being like "oh he was abusive to my mother but he was nice to me" just gives me "oh like i heard that person did something bad/traumatizing to you but they were nice to me so." like completely bypasses any accountability on her father for doing what he did. i dont know i wouldnt be able to forgive someone if they hurt my mother like that FOR YEARS, even if that person is my father. idgaf. makes me very sad but hey ! hes dead so (LMAO)
I truly don't get it either. I guess some ppl see having good relationships or forgiveness as closure or an indicator of overcoming something. But I could neverrrrr
she was also, like, a child while all that was happening. she was a child and he was her father and she loved him. adult women can be gotten by this kind of give and take, of course a child would have been taken in and it doesnt make her a bad person or "not holding her father accountable" for falling for it. and then she says that when she grew up she hated her father for forever because of the abuse
it's because he abused her too. Subjecting a child to your abuse of someone else is also abuse.
Because I haven't read any CoHo books, I don't know what particulars she may or may not have shared in interviews so I'm acting as if the general populace doesn't know particulars about her familial history of abuse.
I inferred from the way she described it that not only did her mother and father separate before his death, but that there was also a large gap where he had to prove corrected behavior before Colleen reconciled with him. Maybe none of that is true at all, but I just don't know the timeline at all as to what she considered "necessary" for that redemption/forgiveness. Maybe if I did, I would still judge it as insufficient, but I think it's a little too armchair to say "we don't get it" when I also am not even close to knowing the specifics of how she came to forgive him.
Abusers are very charming and likeable to the people they don't abuse. Not only that, many victims of abuse excuse their behaviour as a coping mechanism, so her mom may not have given her a nuanced perspective on what it's like being with an abusive partner.
14:27 “In her voice, it simultaneously feels like this is a 40 year old woman- but also a 14 year old girl.” wait….. not this perfectly summing up the extremely specific impression I get at any of coho’s damn books 😭
An hour and half of Cindy roasting it ends with us /coleen Hoover is what I needed to get thru today
I read it years ago back when I was in secondary school. I feel like if I read it right now I would feel differently about it but back then it had a really positive impact on myself. I grew up in ouest africa in a really traditional and religious oriented country. I also grew up reading really awful wattpad stuff. For example in my country polygamy, arranged marriages and minor marriages are normal. A really famous setences woman tells young brides “be resilient and forgiving” or something like that really shows the place of the women in a marriage. So the fact that the books shows some people can be “good person” but at the moment they became violent or abusing it should be a end of a relationship or marriage was meaningful for me. And the fact that the author made me like the abuser helped me understand the difficulties of the situation. Sorry for my English. Not my first nor my second language.
👍🏽
Kids are really frustrating, they can piss you off (I say this as a parent), and it’s your job as a parent to control your feelings to help them through their emotions/struggles. The chances of this man not harming his child is extremely small, he “blacks out” when his emotions are high so “he can’t help it”. How would he not let this happen with his child if he has no control? It would be irresponsible as a mom to let him be alone with your child. I understand Colleen is using her own experiences but this is wild as hell.
lol the love and deep space ad. slay. they know their target audience LOL
They truly do
SHE WAS A SOCIAL WORKER???? had no clue lmao, anyways another slay video Cindy
I honestly find it VERY hard to believe.
honestly? horrific
a rape apologist being a social worker is horrifying
It is a good thing she is not a social worker anymore
My dad’s stepdad almost killed the whole family “family annihilator”-style. Even so, my dad still talks to him and gives him money to this day. I truly do not understand it. I hate that we have his last name. I would have changed it, but it’s the name on all my diplomas and published work (I’m a writer). Not to be all “I’m built different,” but… you lay a hand on me? I’m gone. No forwarding address. Really don’t get why my dad isn’t the same.
family loyalty runs soooo deep in people for some reason... my sister paid $20K after our parents opened credit cards and maxed them out under her name, she grew up with our dad being an alcoholic A-hole, and yet, she lets them live with her in her house
@@withcindyI'm so sorry you have to witness/experience something like this Cindy, genuinely.
I hear you and all your feelings are completely valid AND people can still feel love and attachment to their abusers. They just will. Like water is wet, even if you can't understand it. If you and them are all safe you can accept it. Not accepting it won't make them change and you won't be able to change their minds.
Yo the Grave of the Fireflies bit: my friend and I way back in school loved anime and were like "oh its a ghibli film lets watch it!" and long story short me and my friend were sobbing in my room to the point my mom came to check on us lmao. We learned that day that not all Ghibli films were cute twee movies lmao.
colleen hoover spent this entire book showing off that she understands the struggles of homelessness and abuse because she was a social worker and then seemingly missed the fact that children are very rarely taken seriously when it comes to accusations of abuse? if that kid has a father who "blacks out and flies into violent rages" and then immediately starts gaslighting people about what he's done, there is no way she is going to be believed if something did happen to her. it just felt like she didn't fully understand the implications of the story she was writing.
I literally yelled "STOP" out loud at that pitch for Grave of the Fireflies
you forgot to mention that the younger sister in grave of the fireflies has great hair!!! maybe she uses blake brown haircare to make her hair look so luscious even when she has no food to eat 🥰
Good point! 🥰
The potential this story would have if handled properly 😭😭
18:33
I work at a flower shop:
- Darker color flowers, like brown and black, we stay away from. They are only pretty for so long. And when they die, they look extra ugly. We had a bride that wanted a sandy brown bouquet for her wedding and she wanted to preserve it. My boss had to tell her that brown is like, the worst color to try to make a beautiful preserved arrangement from. (Aka it'll look extra dead.)
- Dying flowers different colors is eh. I'm not a fan, but it's just unnecessary work when darker flowers exist. They also don't last too terribly long.
- Black and purple walls. With black and purple arrangements. How the hell are people supposed to see the flowers? You'll have to light them up somehow? We have a cooler display with a neutral color background so people can actually see the flowers.
Idk how. But Lily is making like, the dumbest decisions and somehow it works? I doubt it.
1:19:55 She probably thinks. "Well I didn't get any psychological damage when I saw my father hit my mother, so it's fine. I could rationalize that, because he was nice to me." ....which I find a bit horrid.
bruh it made me so mad when she said that. like do u not have empathy ? FOR UR MOTHER
@@greeny.official Yeah!
Like, listening to my child praise my abuser would be super hurtful.
Heck, my dad (to my knowledge) has never physically hurt my mum, but there's been quite a bit of emotional abuse and even if I didn't see every single fight they had as a kid, I was aware of enough that it caused trauma. My relationship with him is complicated, and I probably give him more grace than I should, but at least I'm self-aware enough now to know I was affected so I can work through it. I'd be very surprised if CoHo wasn't affected in some way, but perhaps she's not ready to acknowledge that yet (which probably means she shouldn't have monetised her mother's story, but I'm not the book police 🤷♀️)
“My dad beat my mom in front of me but I came out just fine” says CoHo of all people
Without hard proof of the abuse, a judge will still grant the dad custody. My abuser still gets my kid and i cant do anything about it until i can prove he’s awful.
Ugh I hate that so much and I'm sorry you have to go through this
@@withcindy My wife and I work hard to build him up strong enough that his dad cant break him down. And we did win him for the school year so we have him a little more than his dad gets him.
As frustrating as it is, we're lucky he's a smart, good-hearted kid. 🥹
I believe it's explained in the sequel that she didn't have enough proof for court to grant her full custody. It's really common unfortunately.
I’m so sorry!! 😞
Colleen Hoover makes me feel so much better about my own writing, especially when discussing sensitive subjects, oh my lord.
ok but the marine-grade polymer bit was lowkey hilarious
keeping myself calm throughout this video by periodically imagining myself dropping a comically large anvil on ryles head
BONK
The fact that Ryle is portrayed rightfully as an abuser, but every other CoHo male "love" interest is pretty much different versions of him is insane. And November 9 had a scene where the man committed an unforgivable act against the main character, in a ROMANCE BOOK. That's NOT romance! And it's weird that CoHo made Atlas seem like a good guy when he was 18 and hung out with a younger teen, a minor. I'm 18 now and could _never_ be like that with a 16-year-old. They're still just a child in my eyes. I remember how I was at 16.
And CoHo doesn't market these "romance" books as k!nky, messed up and toxic but for fun and the fantasy of it, which would make it a little better. Some people have wild fantasies and can express it through reading, but man, it should be marketed as such, for adults only! No minors! Like the game, "Your Boyfriend". It's clear that it's messed up, k!nky, and only for adults.
"The wardrobe in the movie is bad" there is literally a scene where the dude wears a onsie...
Very curious if they will incorporate that
I honestly find Blake Lively's promotion hilarious.
like, how out of touch you have to be, to make people that love you and support you go and see a film which has the potential to trigger past traumatic memories or at least make them trust the vibe you're giving off, go there enthusiastic with hair done, floral dress, their girlies and popcorn only to see another woman get abused MULTIPLE times by her violent, manipulative and controlling partner. Seriously, she can't be real.
The way I ran from the interviewers video with Blake lively to watch Cindy 👏🏻👏🏻
CONGRATS ON YOUR LITTLE BUMP!
I feel like the black outs are just a cope from colleen bcz as she said without the abuse of her mother her father was a good one so it makes you think if she believeslikes ro believe that the abuse of her mother by the hands of her goid dad are just his blackouts to her
you r so right bc it bypasses having to address any accountability on the abuser's part. it is a very simplified and weird take on "why someone would abuse someone they are supposed to love." hate it
I think alcoholism was a large factor with colleens dad's abuse but it's not a factor in the book at all strangely
Omg I literally saw two different people reading this book on my flight today. I can't wait for Cindy to tear it apart.
0:20 I busted out laughing when you started describing Grave of the Fireflies in such a cutesy way. Cindy, that's FOUL.
😁
1:03:43 please help me to not abuse you….
Errrrr *screech*
LOL RIGHT ??
Loved the video as always ❤️ I think the compartmentalization of Ryle’s abuse is why many DV survivors feel this is a romanticized portrayal. I get why not everyone feels that way and I’m happy they can enjoy the book. Clearly it connects with a lot of people and that’s great.
But personally for me the framing of the abuse as just a mistake/ one bad day/ his worst day, the subtle messaging that maybe this abuse would have never happened if atlas had never been a perceived threat to their relationship and caused “black outs”, and the fact that in the end the baby girl is the thing that makes him never hurt her again/quietly let her go with no more outburst or threat to her or the child feels like an overly simplistic and romanticized idea of abuse. It almost treads on being offensive to other survivors indirectly. Like if they just asked their abuser the right question (would you let someone hit our child?) then their abuser would see the light and everything would be better. Almost as if it’s easy. To be fair CoHo made it clear she isn’t suggesting this is how it works for everyone but I could definitely see the ending upsetting people who know how scary leaving can be.
Very well said! I can totally see that
will never miss a cindy video
Welcomeee
My moms dad was emotionally abusive. One drunken night he hit my gran was with a frying pan full of food. She waited till he slept & beat the sh@t out of him with the same pan. Packed up the kids & ran away to another town.
My gran taught us abuse should never be allowed & if we were ever in trouble she would bring the pan.
Props to her holy shid 👏👏👏😂
Imagine if the "love interest" was actually gay like Cindy suggested and the whole book went differently and it was about Lily's friendship with him and he was cool and not abusive and he helped out at her shop
Yeah, as someone who got out of an abusive relationship in my early 20s before it got as far as marriage etc (Praise the Good Lord), this ending is gross. And this whole sentiment of, "People are complex, they're not fully good or bad," bringing that into a story of abuse is just dark. Like, fair, people are complex, but giving Ryle some back story so there is some "reason" for his behaviour is fairly sick. My ex-BF was all about the reasoning, all about his traumatic and sad childhood (which was genuinely horrible, and also included various shades of abuse). Ryle's pleading apologies etc are also so reminiscent of my ex-BF. It would have been amazing if Hoover, rather than giving in to Ryle's supposed justifications and the fact that he seemed contrite, brought Lily to the place where she realised that all of his begging and contrition were irrelevant, and probably not even real. He was a controlling bastard, and he would have said anything to keep her under his control.
Also, how was she just dropping her kid with him, and being fine? Not even just being fine with her daugher seeing him, but being fine with her herself having contact with him? No woman I know who has had an abusive partner has felt safe around the man after she has gotten away. Friends of mine are sent into panic attacks and their lives are constantly disrupted by the feeling they have after the abuse ends. It's a PTSD, trying to avoid him and change your phone number, going through social services to let him see his kids kind of life. Colleen's perspective has been so skewed, clearly, by her own positive feelings towards her dad. This book really should have been checked over by other abuse survivors. An ideal ending would have been Lily and Atlas, living on their own somewhere far away from Boston and Ryle, and the little girl having a great life and calling Atlas, "Daddy". Ryle would be out of the picture, not allowed access to the priveleges he thought he was owed, which is exactly what he deserved.
Colleen writes abusers SO well, except when she intends to😭