Different video for me, since I'm of course known for souls modding! But, creating little screenspace RTGI presets is calming for me and a nice vacation from souls modding occasionally lol. Also, hopefully this video will answer the critics of the last video who said it wasn't real RT. Wrong. It's screenspace, yes, but rays are being traced. Check out the link here for more info on the shader: www.martysmods.com/rtgi/ Also, another thing a couple people brought up in the last video, I've never done a sponsored video. If I do one, I'm required to say it. I make videos about things I think are fucking cool. and if you want to somehow twist that into "oh he must be paid for this!!!" then go for it. I will continue to make things I'm passionate about
So I just stumbled upon this video and got curious about the discussion and thought I'd be able to offer some help in clarifying things. I'm a software architect and I have experience building and working with ray tracing engines (renderers) for over a decade. 3:40 "It is actually raytracing" ❌ "It is so easily disproven" ❌ *"I don't know why people were making that argument"* Well, after having read those comments in the other video myself, if you _really_ don't _know_ why people were making that argument, then my only guess is that either a) you're speaking without having read their comments; or b) you are simply way too ignorant in the subject to understand their point; or c) you're being cynical. But let me try to help either way. Sorry in advance for the wall of text, but please give it a full read :) So, first of all, "Ray tracing" does not mean "there are rays being traced". In fact, if you understand the algorithm, you know that saying "there are rays being traced" isn't even completely accurate, even for "full ray tracing" (much less so for screen space). I could just as well say that "there are **no** rays being traced **at all** ", and that would be partly accurate as well, even for full ray tracing (and arguably completely accurate for screen space). And that's because the algorithm is only a mathematical abstraction over what actually "tracing" rays over the scene would entail. There aren't really any rays being traced "physically" in the scene, even in "full ray tracing". A common related misunderstanding I see in layman discussions over this subject is people thinking that Path Tracing _emulates_ light -- and that's definitively not the case for the same reason: the algorithm is only a mathematical abstraction (more precisely, solving an integral (and a quite simple one, in fact)), and that comes with _lots_ of shortcomings. So, again, "there are rays being traced" is at best a layman term, at worst a misleading one (as people were trying to point out) and does not represent what Ray Tracing actually means. Now, yes, you could make the argument that, in *layman terms* , yes "rays are being traced" during ray tracing. But if you're an expert in any other field, then you probably know how explaining things in layman terms, while it helps to get the point across, can never be completely accurate. There is a reason we give **names** to things in science: so that we can easily refer to the thing and everyone knows what we're talking about. And while ray tracing as a general concept is not completely precisely defined, it is _very_ well defined in computer graphics. It is a very old and known algorithm. Using those layman terms to argue that SSGI _is_ ray tracing is analogous to arguing that counting coins in a bank is Quantum Mechanics, because you're dealing with the mechanics of indivisible units (quanta), or arguing that building a toy for your son is civil engineering, because you're engineering something for a civilian. Note that GI solutions that use techniques similar to ray tracing but without doing triangle ray tracing have existed and been applied in realtime graphics for over a decade and none of them were called "RTxx"; Crytek famously invented many of such solutions, such as SSR (Screen Space Reflections. See? No RT in the name) or SVOGI (Sparse Voxel Octree Global Illumination). Ray marching is an old and commonly used technique noawadays for various effects; It is a kind of "voxel ray tracing", yet, again, it is called "Ray Marching", not "Iterative Voxel Ray Tracing". There are also old SSAO techniques in this same bucket, and yet no RT in the name. I could go on. Okay, so your argument is poor. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is problematic. So why is it problematic? The first reason is what I just said above: if you're an expert in any other field, then you can probably understand the importance of (and why people get upset about it) not using names of things that have well defined meanings in scientific literature for other things. The second reason is more pragmatic, and is what people have been commenting all over your videos: it is simply misleading. SSGI is a far cry from actual ray tracing, obvious and specifically because of its lack of data outside of screen space. Not only the final result is not as good as ray tracing, but it also suffer from many artifacts (naturally due to its limitations) that are not _at all_ present in ray tracing (in fact, that is the very point of ray tracing: to render images free of these approximation artifacts!!!). And then calling it RTX is even worse, as that is a _brand_ name from NVIDIA, and is exclusively used both by the company and by games to mean triangle ray tracing (there are also related technologies under the umbrella branding, such as DLSS, but that's irrelevant here). And compounding it all are these PAID reshades that claim to be "Ray Tracing" and are marketed as "RTX": that is literally (!!!) false advertising. And though I believe you already know this, but for completeness: that is also probably what people were talking about when saying you were "sold": it is obviously not about being sold to "big NVIDIA", but instead about marketing that paid reshade that does false advertising. So, coming back to your original points: "It is actually raytracing" It is not. "It is so easily disproven" Well, I'd be surprised if you could easily disprove those people arguments. In fact, I think it's the opposite: it is quite _easy_ to disprove _your_ arguments! :) And finally, I hope you now "know why people were making that argument". And if you still disagree for any reason, then just be honest and say that you disagree! No need to be cynical. Btw, it's funny seeing your edit mishap at 2:53. What did you cut? You realizing that NVIDIA actually put a big "Screen Space" in front of the name? 😜
My problem with these shaders is not the Ray Tracing part, as SSR (screen space reflections) and even SSAO by this logic can be accurately categorized as ray tracing too. However: - They (usually) don't use RT hardware (not really an issue, just here for those who like to be needlessly pedantic) - They can't reflect offscreen content because their only input is the near-final data used to draw the screen. However they do trace rays through a scene generated from the depth, normal, and colour buffers to figure out what should be visible in the refection (if that data is on the screen). The "Ray Tracing" provided by this and most reshade effects are the same, being almost entirely limited to what's on the screen. Thus the "global" in global illumination is the lie, not the ray tracing part, even if RT hardware is in use. These products are selling themselves as equivalent to actual global illumination solutions despite being unable to correctly represent actual global effects, and often having lots of flickering and instability. They led to hundreds of "I added ray-tracing to X" videos a few years ago, where people would turn it on and make horrible conclusions about how games would actually work with ray-tracing enabled. That is where the backlash comes from. Personally, I would find them useful for what Reshade really is actually good at: punching up screen shots / videos when their effects make the image look nicer, not for actually playing the game where the bugs, instability, visual noise, and/or the performance cost, makes the experience of playing the game worse.
To be clear, this is my response to your "I don't get the hate" rant from the start of the video. If actual work has gone into actually making the bugs / inconsistencies less consequential non-impactful so that it's an overall win, and not a "screen shot" win, great, but it's still hiding behind incorrectly understood and used buzzwords.
Just because it's not the fixed function pipeline RT doesn't make it any less RT and yes, reflections and AO can be RT, even when done in software/shaders. However not all reflections and AO is necessarily RT. There are alternative methods of computing it, same as GI(which by definition has AO in it btw, cause there really is no separate AO, in reality shadows are just a lack of light) which for an example can be computed as a voxel/volumetric effect or it can be calculated via ray tracing. To be fair, processing volumes/voxels still involves ray casting. But not all ray casting is ray tracing, necessarily.
For people still unsure of why this differs from "real" ray tracing, have a look at this short video: th-cam.com/video/ZOPgXRZSvzQ/w-d-xo.html . Screen Space Ray-Traced Global Illumination (SSRTGI, which these awesome mods use) can only use the information displayed on the screen, paired with the depth buffer for distance and normal buffer for direction. This allows the shader to perform a basic ray-tracing that is unaware of the lights and geometry that is outside the screen and behind other stuff, making it not a "full" ray-tracing. Still creates a lovely effect when used for older games! Whether you call it ray-tracing or not is going to depend from person to person, Ray-Tracing has become such a buzzword that I've personally become super pedantic in it's use :) Cool spotlight, it really breathes new life into these games!
But that's the thing, ray tracing has become such a buzzword meaning all kinds of different things that you can't be pedantic about its use. You have to specify. You could say that a game has ray tracing, but is it referring to shadows, reflections, or global illumination? Is it using "real" ray tracing or the much better path tracing? And how can that be "real" ray tracing when it doesn't hold a candle to path tracing? It's because it's not, it's just a specific implementation of a certain type of ray tracing of which there are all different kinds. This is a screen space implementation, which is important to specify as it has certain limitations, but it doesn't mean that it isn't tracing rays. It won't get you the full effect of newer titles, but it does wonders for old games, and in some instances actually looks better as it doesn't leave an amorphous noisy mess like some new titles do. People getting upset about it is just weird, they need to find some real problems or something.
@@Aleaf_Inwind For sure! I'm just a sucker for super specific acronyms, makes the googling easier later on by calling everything by what it is exactly, instead of nebulous terms like 'ray-tracing' or 'AI'. It's all neat tech that deserves a proper term, buzzwords almost seem to do the techniques applied a disservice, as they discard the nuance of the technology. But of course a balance needs to be struck between correct terminology and being actually readable, and people on the internet are always gonna complain ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
When games nowadays ship with ray traced features they are casting rays against 3D scene geometry. That is how you get accurate shadows. Using the z-buffer and normal maps give you a 2D approximation from the camera's viewpoint. The technical term for using the depth buffer and rays is called ray marching. A simple google search will give you many different sources explaining it all
@@lost_lambkin Not sure if this is exactly correct. From my understanding, ray marching is just casting rays where the intersection of the rays with surfaces is calculated iteratively, oftentimes using a signed distance function. Ray marching is definetely not limited to scenes where the only information is the z-buffer and normal maps. It seems possible to implement this SSRTGI with ray marching, but not necessary.
Just played these games for the first time with the Legendary Edition earlier this year. I wish I played them sooner, but glad I did anyways. The only thing I'd recommend you'd do is to take your time to listen to the codex and get to know all the side characters. Cause honestly, unless Bioware can somehow pull with the next ME, then the series might be finished. So take it all in while you can. One of the more interesting game worlds I've experienced in a while.
I wish reshade found a way to work outside of screenspace because yeah that's why stuff like loading screens and inventory screens usually cause issues breaking immersion. So reshade for me is just to get true HDR out of games (which is already impressive), add antialiasing, and not much else, can't really justify paying for a shader for it. Very cool though!
its a overhyped bloom effect as it still interacts with the UI put on bloom shader and mxao and its cheaper and almost the same if you push the values higher to act like real RT it just shows up the problems more
I'm glad you like it and it does look much improved. The argument that it's not raytracing is valid, it's 0.5 the way there. It only works with the data presented on the screen. You will never get rays and reflections from behind you or off screen that will be reflected in your view. Also there is also the side problem of the UI getting mixed up in the effect sometimes. Thanks for doing this, I'm a poor guy that can't afford an rtx card atm.
Imagine console versions of Mass-E implementing this 🤤. Xbox has a cool feature called Auto HDR, it would be incredible if they added an auto RT. If Auto RT is a feasible feature, but couldn't work for newer games, then at least have it for older games. ✨🌟
SSRTGI not RTGI If this is RTGI what does Metro exodus enhanced edition use? (maybe even indiana jones ,the base ray tracing not the pathtracing/full raytracing mode) I respect what you are doing with bloodborne and im not even intrerested in play et, i watch the vids cause im interested in graphics in general,cause im doing a certain RTX remix project. So i dont mean no disrespect or to cause an argument,i see there are already too many willin' to argue for these (basically ) irrelevant things (in the grand picture of life).
Metro Exodus uses RTX GI -> which is a probe based approach. It technologically differs significantly from „normal“ RTGI. The SS RTGI is much closer to default RTGI than RTX GI.
wow, this is actually impressive. I didnt know reshade could do this sort if realistic lighting. Usually its all "some dude's opinionated color improvements".
Something a lot of people don't understand is the subtle difference between ray tracing and ray casting. All ray tracing is technically ray casting but not all ray casting is necessarily ray tracing. What is counted as ray tracing is typically more complex calculations involving multiple bounces, but there also ray casting scenarios where you just don't need or benefit as much from the more complex nature of it, so for performance reasons you might as well do a 'single bounce' and terminate the rays. In this case and I need to be clear, I haven't looked at the source here, I recon it is ray tracing probably, but screen space and likely approximate. Also a question of what sampling method is used?
Honestly no big difference, and it being screen space is a big problem. Screen space RT always looks bad, it only looks good stationary. The scene can change drastically with the camera angle cause you can obviously pick up more lighting info. Better to use simple ssao with shaders like ambient light etc.
Hello man huge fan of your modding vids. I wanted to share with you why many people claimed it was fake RT. Take a look at traditional in game SSR and this RTGI shader, and you will see they have similar issues despite being different. Yes it's ray tracing algorithm, but it's still limited to the standard screen space which regular RT doesn't have issues with. So while it may be correctly named, it's still a bit of a buzzword since all it offers is a resolution bump and a big performance hit.
All of these effects could easily be added by a single employee from one of these big devs to these older games and would increase sales. Instead, they will charge 60$ for a remaster.
Were you able to somehow solve the problem when rays interfere with fog volumes (textures of fog or smoke), and also broken depth of field without turning it off completely?
Please put SS/screen space in the title, would save me clicking then downvoting every time you bait me. We don't refer to SSR as ray traced reflections even if it's technically true, so we should refer to this as SSDGI. Wish the dev wouldn't refer to it as RTGI as well.
Reshade injected RGTI unfortunately only looks good in screenshots as it’s a screen space effect so the lighting will warp and fade as you pan the camera
It is in fact NOT picking up on the normal-maps. This is purely the geometric normals data(edit: and only the viewer facing normal data at that, no occluded geometric data is included or even accessible). No texture data. So no normal maps. Let's not confuse those two things. But also, you just really don't need the fine grained detail from normal maps to reconstruct the scene/camera space depth buffer.
Forgot about mass effect in my other comment about rtgi. It’s incredible-but I have all the crazy textures so running radiantGI with RT is too taxing on my 4070.
I'll tell you why people complain: It is not RayTracing because it does not take into account the bouncing of all the objects present in the game, that is to say those that are not present in the screen space. Another reason is the materials, it does not behave in a coherent way the illumination of the ReShade with the properties of the material on which it is applied. It only takes into account the color of the material texture.
@ so it actually is. It’s right in the name raytracing. If rays are being traced, then by definition, it is raytracing. Not sure why this is so hard to understand. Hmm.
@@fromsoftserve Yes, you're not wrong here but it's a bit of a clickbaity title. People are going to click thinking about "hey, is he doing anything with RTX Remix?" or expecting something big, not a reshade shader for screen space RT. I think that putting on the title or the thumbnail "SSRTGI" would be better.
hey, man i actually have done extensive testing with martys rtgi immersion ultimate shader. i could never get it to look as good as this, though i was close, my depth buffer tended to have problems. I no longer have access to the shader, so i am extemely excited to see what you can do with it.
Ray-tracing being screen space just defeats the purpose, wether it is or isn't doesn't matter Also ALOT I believe has an optional that rebakes the shadows at a higher resolution, worth trying if you haven't already Merry Christmas
ReShade global illumination will never work until the transparency issue is solved (ambient occlusion bleeding through fog for example, one of the most disgusting visual bugs in gaming graphics). And AFAIK, nobody has solved it to this day.
*RTX4070 here...* Just FYI, I didn't even attempt this as there's money involved for the shaders however I thought people might to know that on an RTX4060Ti he said he can maintain 60FPS at 1440p with this RT mod... personally, I have all three games in the Legendary version locked to 120FPS at 4K (plus some of the Community fixes including the mandatory butt shots). RT modding? Cool. Oh, and I tried the ALOT textures but it really caused me some grief with FPS drops especially on the Citadel in the 3rd game I believe (where Joker is waiting for Edi). I still get some FPS drops/stutter but the rest of the game is mostly 120FPS. And a 4K monitor really helps get rid of a lot (not all) of the aliasing. 60Hz VSYNC'd with my RTX4070 was a real problem in the 2nd or 3rd games as my FPS would plummet. I'd alt-tab back or go to a different area and all was fine for a while. I never fixed that, but when I bought the 4K monitor and used GSYNC (VSYnc on globally in NVidia CP) the problem went away. Then I capped all three games to 120FPS. (*oh, and turn off HDR in the game graphics settings if you have an HDR monitor. And Google how to disable DOF for the 2nd game which seemed to fix much of my "too dark" issues.)
I adore your mods and am playing through bloodborne for the first time thanks to your tips. Just gotta say, screen space raytracing is extremely inferior to fully implemented raytracing. The difference is so vast that I hate seeing them even put in the same category. I agree with your notion on the "no true Scotsman" fallacy many people have with reshade raytracing. But to pretend it's ANYTHING like raytracing implemented on the engine level is crazy to me.
i finished the game once now with my new rtx gpu ill do it again but this time it will look even better! Im curios only if this mod will work with other mods or modpacks? Because i wanna mod my gave heavy and i hope this rtgi preset wont make some mods incompatible directly.
ppl put to much stock in graphics even when they can't tell the difference why not just enjoy the games as they are made sure some improvements are nice and all but man ppl take it too far these games don't need this shit they look great and if you change the way they look it's like playing a different game in many cases it's just better to leave it as it is i hate changing older games like this cause exactly the way they were made is what makes them so good i loved how games looked back in the day 2000-2013 now everything is so colorful and flashy it's literally made to catch the attention of 5 years old kids
What's the point in doing this in games with no upscaling + FG support? It'll be unplayable on anything below a 4090 and you've got to rent the shader from the modders patreon.
Look I'm not really familiar with how all this stuff works. But I do have a question the way you made it sound like it's not even using Ray tracing cores on a graphics card correct.
Cool stuff. Looking forward to giving it a shot when I have the time. Shame people are hounding you about it. Slightly related, but seeing all of this is dragging out something that has been bothering me for a long time. This pedantic, tistic, reddit-tier arguing and "erm-akshually" is why I never bothered dedicating myself to game dev. I was running a game dev major back in 2011, and I couldn't stand the mentality of some of my classmates in the later classes. Dropped it, switched majors. Way better off for it. I can't even put into words how much I miss the more free-form culture in the 90s and 2000s. People making stuff because it's cool instead of arguing about what is effectively game dev "meta." Turning game dev into something you can get an academic piece of paper for has been an absolute disaster. Some of my absolute favorite games are "poorly made" jank. Some cool guys had some cool ideas that might have not been perfect in execution, yet resulted in fun and unique experiences. Now so much of the industry is watered-down cookie cutter garbage. Where people with 4-year degrees think they're superior to the guy who spent 2 years in a closet working nonstop on something he was passionate about. The extreme irony is now we have game after game after game that is pure unoptimized slop that's trying to leverage DLSS/TAA/frame gen to make up for fundamentally not understanding (or in many cases NOT EVEN ATTEMPTING to understand) how the underlying tech works. I bet there's a pretty good overlap of the people sperging about this not being real RT and the devs that just load up UE5, drag and drop everything, then pray DLSS will get them from 15 frames to 45. Anyway, appreciate what you do From. Keep it up. I don't care if a project is perfect. I care that someone is having fun making it.
If it's done in screen space it's not ray tracing. Sorry,but that's how it is. The whole point of ray tracing is taking into account light sources emitting materials etc. from everywhere including outside of screen space. That makes it actually somewhat realistic. Also we are confused about the definition of ray tracing. It changed since 2018. Nowadays ray tracing means whatever the F the marketing team wants. But basically it's one or several effects that involves building an acceleration structure ( BVH) ,sending primary rays and tracing their bounces wherever they lead( even outside of screen space). Effects like Global Illumination, Reflections, Ambient Occlusion, Shadows, Translucent Reflections, Caustics etc. A situation where all these or most of these are combined in single procedure we call path tracing which doesn't use any rasterization. Everything you see in the image with path tracing is there because a ray bounced around and gathered necessary information and also denoising was applied because tracing many rays in real time is way too expensive,so fewer are actually traced.
Because its ssrt and not rt. Sure ssrt is performant, but i feel the hole point of rt is to remove all the artifacts from from ss. Also, is your mod on something else then nexusmod. I can't support them in good conscience.
it's ray tracing but it's not at the level of BVH structured ray tracing GI, I just still hate SSRTGI in general because every lights out from the screen space basically wont gonna render at all even something behind you. so yeah it's semi-fake-RTGI in a sense.
fromsoftserve paid off by Big Color to agitate for more color in video games! Also, I have never in my life seen a light or even know what light is, but in your video you keep repeating 'look at the lights' - clearly the behavior of a TH-camr on the take! And now that I've outright publicly accused you of being a corrupt liar, I will be _incredibly shocked_ if you react in any way to me just innocently Asking Questions.
Different video for me, since I'm of course known for souls modding! But, creating little screenspace RTGI presets is calming for me and a nice vacation from souls modding occasionally lol. Also, hopefully this video will answer the critics of the last video who said it wasn't real RT. Wrong. It's screenspace, yes, but rays are being traced. Check out the link here for more info on the shader: www.martysmods.com/rtgi/
Also, another thing a couple people brought up in the last video, I've never done a sponsored video. If I do one, I'm required to say it. I make videos about things I think are fucking cool. and if you want to somehow twist that into "oh he must be paid for this!!!" then go for it. I will continue to make things I'm passionate about
what gpu would you recommend as lowest for this mod, AMD and Nvidia?
So I just stumbled upon this video and got curious about the discussion and thought I'd be able to offer some help in clarifying things. I'm a software architect and I have experience building and working with ray tracing engines (renderers) for over a decade.
3:40
"It is actually raytracing" ❌
"It is so easily disproven" ❌
*"I don't know why people were making that argument"*
Well, after having read those comments in the other video myself, if you _really_ don't _know_ why people were making that argument, then my only guess is that either a) you're speaking without having read their comments; or b) you are simply way too ignorant in the subject to understand their point; or c) you're being cynical. But let me try to help either way. Sorry in advance for the wall of text, but please give it a full read :)
So, first of all, "Ray tracing" does not mean "there are rays being traced". In fact, if you understand the algorithm, you know that saying "there are rays being traced" isn't even completely accurate, even for "full ray tracing" (much less so for screen space). I could just as well say that "there are **no** rays being traced **at all** ", and that would be partly accurate as well, even for full ray tracing (and arguably completely accurate for screen space). And that's because the algorithm is only a mathematical abstraction over what actually "tracing" rays over the scene would entail. There aren't really any rays being traced "physically" in the scene, even in "full ray tracing". A common related misunderstanding I see in layman discussions over this subject is people thinking that Path Tracing _emulates_ light -- and that's definitively not the case for the same reason: the algorithm is only a mathematical abstraction (more precisely, solving an integral (and a quite simple one, in fact)), and that comes with _lots_ of shortcomings. So, again, "there are rays being traced" is at best a layman term, at worst a misleading one (as people were trying to point out) and does not represent what Ray Tracing actually means.
Now, yes, you could make the argument that, in *layman terms* , yes "rays are being traced" during ray tracing. But if you're an expert in any other field, then you probably know how explaining things in layman terms, while it helps to get the point across, can never be completely accurate. There is a reason we give **names** to things in science: so that we can easily refer to the thing and everyone knows what we're talking about. And while ray tracing as a general concept is not completely precisely defined, it is _very_ well defined in computer graphics. It is a very old and known algorithm. Using those layman terms to argue that SSGI _is_ ray tracing is analogous to arguing that counting coins in a bank is Quantum Mechanics, because you're dealing with the mechanics of indivisible units (quanta), or arguing that building a toy for your son is civil engineering, because you're engineering something for a civilian.
Note that GI solutions that use techniques similar to ray tracing but without doing triangle ray tracing have existed and been applied in realtime graphics for over a decade and none of them were called "RTxx"; Crytek famously invented many of such solutions, such as SSR (Screen Space Reflections. See? No RT in the name) or SVOGI (Sparse Voxel Octree Global Illumination). Ray marching is an old and commonly used technique noawadays for various effects; It is a kind of "voxel ray tracing", yet, again, it is called "Ray Marching", not "Iterative Voxel Ray Tracing". There are also old SSAO techniques in this same bucket, and yet no RT in the name. I could go on.
Okay, so your argument is poor. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is problematic. So why is it problematic? The first reason is what I just said above: if you're an expert in any other field, then you can probably understand the importance of (and why people get upset about it) not using names of things that have well defined meanings in scientific literature for other things. The second reason is more pragmatic, and is what people have been commenting all over your videos: it is simply misleading. SSGI is a far cry from actual ray tracing, obvious and specifically because of its lack of data outside of screen space. Not only the final result is not as good as ray tracing, but it also suffer from many artifacts (naturally due to its limitations) that are not _at all_ present in ray tracing (in fact, that is the very point of ray tracing: to render images free of these approximation artifacts!!!). And then calling it RTX is even worse, as that is a _brand_ name from NVIDIA, and is exclusively used both by the company and by games to mean triangle ray tracing (there are also related technologies under the umbrella branding, such as DLSS, but that's irrelevant here). And compounding it all are these PAID reshades that claim to be "Ray Tracing" and are marketed as "RTX": that is literally (!!!) false advertising. And though I believe you already know this, but for completeness: that is also probably what people were talking about when saying you were "sold": it is obviously not about being sold to "big NVIDIA", but instead about marketing that paid reshade that does false advertising.
So, coming back to your original points:
"It is actually raytracing"
It is not.
"It is so easily disproven"
Well, I'd be surprised if you could easily disprove those people arguments. In fact, I think it's the opposite: it is quite _easy_ to disprove _your_ arguments! :)
And finally, I hope you now "know why people were making that argument". And if you still disagree for any reason, then just be honest and say that you disagree! No need to be cynical.
Btw, it's funny seeing your edit mishap at 2:53. What did you cut? You realizing that NVIDIA actually put a big "Screen Space" in front of the name? 😜
mass effect + fromsoftserve is not a collab i expected
Dark souls, Bloodborne, and now Mass effect?
I love you.
My problem with these shaders is not the Ray Tracing part, as SSR (screen space reflections) and even SSAO by this logic can be accurately categorized as ray tracing too. However:
- They (usually) don't use RT hardware (not really an issue, just here for those who like to be needlessly pedantic)
- They can't reflect offscreen content because their only input is the near-final data used to draw the screen.
However they do trace rays through a scene generated from the depth, normal, and colour buffers to figure out what should be visible in the refection (if that data is on the screen).
The "Ray Tracing" provided by this and most reshade effects are the same, being almost entirely limited to what's on the screen. Thus the "global" in global illumination is the lie, not the ray tracing part, even if RT hardware is in use.
These products are selling themselves as equivalent to actual global illumination solutions despite being unable to correctly represent actual global effects, and often having lots of flickering and instability. They led to hundreds of "I added ray-tracing to X" videos a few years ago, where people would turn it on and make horrible conclusions about how games would actually work with ray-tracing enabled. That is where the backlash comes from.
Personally, I would find them useful for what Reshade really is actually good at: punching up screen shots / videos when their effects make the image look nicer, not for actually playing the game where the bugs, instability, visual noise, and/or the performance cost, makes the experience of playing the game worse.
To be clear, this is my response to your "I don't get the hate" rant from the start of the video. If actual work has gone into actually making the bugs / inconsistencies less consequential non-impactful so that it's an overall win, and not a "screen shot" win, great, but it's still hiding behind incorrectly understood and used buzzwords.
Just because it's not the fixed function pipeline RT doesn't make it any less RT and yes, reflections and AO can be RT, even when done in software/shaders. However not all reflections and AO is necessarily RT. There are alternative methods of computing it, same as GI(which by definition has AO in it btw, cause there really is no separate AO, in reality shadows are just a lack of light) which for an example can be computed as a voxel/volumetric effect or it can be calculated via ray tracing. To be fair, processing volumes/voxels still involves ray casting. But not all ray casting is ray tracing, necessarily.
For people still unsure of why this differs from "real" ray tracing, have a look at this short video: th-cam.com/video/ZOPgXRZSvzQ/w-d-xo.html . Screen Space Ray-Traced Global Illumination (SSRTGI, which these awesome mods use) can only use the information displayed on the screen, paired with the depth buffer for distance and normal buffer for direction. This allows the shader to perform a basic ray-tracing that is unaware of the lights and geometry that is outside the screen and behind other stuff, making it not a "full" ray-tracing. Still creates a lovely effect when used for older games! Whether you call it ray-tracing or not is going to depend from person to person, Ray-Tracing has become such a buzzword that I've personally become super pedantic in it's use :)
Cool spotlight, it really breathes new life into these games!
But that's the thing, ray tracing has become such a buzzword meaning all kinds of different things that you can't be pedantic about its use. You have to specify. You could say that a game has ray tracing, but is it referring to shadows, reflections, or global illumination? Is it using "real" ray tracing or the much better path tracing? And how can that be "real" ray tracing when it doesn't hold a candle to path tracing? It's because it's not, it's just a specific implementation of a certain type of ray tracing of which there are all different kinds. This is a screen space implementation, which is important to specify as it has certain limitations, but it doesn't mean that it isn't tracing rays. It won't get you the full effect of newer titles, but it does wonders for old games, and in some instances actually looks better as it doesn't leave an amorphous noisy mess like some new titles do. People getting upset about it is just weird, they need to find some real problems or something.
@@Aleaf_Inwind For sure! I'm just a sucker for super specific acronyms, makes the googling easier later on by calling everything by what it is exactly, instead of nebulous terms like 'ray-tracing' or 'AI'. It's all neat tech that deserves a proper term, buzzwords almost seem to do the techniques applied a disservice, as they discard the nuance of the technology. But of course a balance needs to be struck between correct terminology and being actually readable, and people on the internet are always gonna complain ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
@@Mater0706 I think I misunderstood what you meant about being pedantic, I completely agree with you.
When games nowadays ship with ray traced features they are casting rays against 3D scene geometry. That is how you get accurate shadows. Using the z-buffer and normal maps give you a 2D approximation from the camera's viewpoint. The technical term for using the depth buffer and rays is called ray marching. A simple google search will give you many different sources explaining it all
@@lost_lambkin Not sure if this is exactly correct. From my understanding, ray marching is just casting rays where the intersection of the rays with surfaces is calculated iteratively, oftentimes using a signed distance function. Ray marching is definetely not limited to scenes where the only information is the z-buffer and normal maps. It seems possible to implement this SSRTGI with ray marching, but not necessary.
Mass Effect and Serve? Christmas is here with a FUCKING BANG
I downloaded it last night and I just realized you made it lmao Good job!
Can you share ini preset?
I was thinking about replaying this series. Thank the gods and the creator
The ME games are my next project from my backlog, great timing!
Just played these games for the first time with the Legendary Edition earlier this year. I wish I played them sooner, but glad I did anyways. The only thing I'd recommend you'd do is to take your time to listen to the codex and get to know all the side characters. Cause honestly, unless Bioware can somehow pull with the next ME, then the series might be finished. So take it all in while you can. One of the more interesting game worlds I've experienced in a while.
Who are you?
I wish reshade found a way to work outside of screenspace because yeah that's why stuff like loading screens and inventory screens usually cause issues breaking immersion. So reshade for me is just to get true HDR out of games (which is already impressive), add antialiasing, and not much else, can't really justify paying for a shader for it.
Very cool though!
Reshade can only work with post processing, so I doubt it will be achieved.
DUDE, I've just started playing through the trilogy again.
Amazing timing!
All the best and merry christmas
I'd love to see how you could improve the visuals in the Dishonoured series...RT in those games would be pretty special (RTGI even!)
"Did you get paid?" -- I died. xD
What a great video of my top game :D great insights, honest opinion and sharing passion -> thank you!
I’m so happy this guy is applying his brilliance to Mass Effect. More please 🙏
The difference is sincerely minimal
So I followed the link, nexusmods says that file doesn't exist.
Searching for RTX for Mass Effect shows no results.
It's cause this mod is now behind a paywall, and all the free downloads have been scrubbed off the Internet.
Just in time for the trilogy playthrough I started last week. Nice!
Looking at the images, it looks more like it's recognizing ambient surfaces as emitters rather than bounce lights.
its a overhyped bloom effect as it still interacts with the UI
put on bloom shader and mxao and its cheaper and almost the same
if you push the values higher to act like real RT it just shows up the problems more
I'm glad you like it and it does look much improved. The argument that it's not raytracing is valid, it's 0.5 the way there. It only works with the data presented on the screen. You will never get rays and reflections from behind you or off screen that will be reflected in your view. Also there is also the side problem of the UI getting mixed up in the effect sometimes.
Thanks for doing this, I'm a poor guy that can't afford an rtx card atm.
Also I think you can use Lossless Scaling program and use it to give you frame gen to makeup for the fps loss. Might be worth it.
Why did they take this mod off of Nexxus?
To put it behind a paywall
Imagine console versions of Mass-E implementing this 🤤.
Xbox has a cool feature called Auto HDR, it would be incredible if they added an auto RT. If Auto RT is a feasible feature, but couldn't work for newer games, then at least have it for older games. ✨🌟
Hardly a game changer, if you need a magnifier glass and paused game to explain.
I still dream of the day when Raytracing will be just as easy to run as rasterised lighting. Remastering old games would be glorious then.
SSRTGI not RTGI
If this is RTGI what does Metro exodus enhanced edition use? (maybe even indiana jones ,the base ray tracing not the pathtracing/full raytracing mode)
I respect what you are doing with bloodborne and im not even intrerested in play et, i watch the vids cause im interested in graphics in general,cause im doing a certain RTX remix project. So i dont mean no disrespect or to cause an argument,i see there are already too many willin' to argue for these (basically ) irrelevant things (in the grand picture of life).
Metro Exodus uses RTX GI -> which is a probe based approach. It technologically differs significantly from „normal“ RTGI. The SS RTGI is much closer to default RTGI than RTX GI.
wow, this is actually impressive. I didnt know reshade could do this sort if realistic lighting. Usually its all "some dude's opinionated color improvements".
Welp time for another play through
This game would work really really well with a full ray path tracing and infinite light from ue5
Being out on the Mako would be awesome with RT.
The mod at Nexus Mods is down. At least provide a Google drive link that we can download and use.
This also works for kotor 1 if anyone is interested. Also functions with the Starwind mod.
Liked it 1:16 1:49
Did not like it 1:30 1:35 raytracing does this in a lot of game where floor becomes glassy/shiny.
Liked it 1:41
And so on...
Yeah the original game 4k mod is better
I honestly love Mass Effect more than I love the Soulsborne games (Bloodborne might be an exception), so I'm so glad to see you working on this!
Too bad the raytracing don't remove the EA launcher 😅
Hoisting your sails will! Iykyk
Something a lot of people don't understand is the subtle difference between ray tracing and ray casting. All ray tracing is technically ray casting but not all ray casting is necessarily ray tracing. What is counted as ray tracing is typically more complex calculations involving multiple bounces, but there also ray casting scenarios where you just don't need or benefit as much from the more complex nature of it, so for performance reasons you might as well do a 'single bounce' and terminate the rays.
In this case and I need to be clear, I haven't looked at the source here, I recon it is ray tracing probably, but screen space and likely approximate. Also a question of what sampling method is used?
Honestly no big difference, and it being screen space is a big problem. Screen space RT always looks bad, it only looks good stationary. The scene can change drastically with the camera angle cause you can obviously pick up more lighting info.
Better to use simple ssao with shaders like ambient light etc.
FUCKING FINALLY!! YES!!
My God, I've been waiting for ray tracing in the original Mass Effect for AGES!!!!!
This made me hard.
It's been out for at least 4 years now.
@@Aleaf_Inwind WHAT!? Shit...
Hello man huge fan of your modding vids. I wanted to share with you why many people claimed it was fake RT. Take a look at traditional in game SSR and this RTGI shader, and you will see they have similar issues despite being different. Yes it's ray tracing algorithm, but it's still limited to the standard screen space which regular RT doesn't have issues with. So while it may be correctly named, it's still a bit of a buzzword since all it offers is a resolution bump and a big performance hit.
Please stop calling screen space reshade effects ray tracing. It's effectively just clickbait.
We'll bang, okay?
All of these effects could easily be added by a single employee from one of these big devs to these older games and would increase sales. Instead, they will charge 60$ for a remaster.
Were you able to somehow solve the problem when rays interfere with fog volumes (textures of fog or smoke), and also broken depth of field without turning it off completely?
So has this mod been removed from Nexus? I cant find it
Please put SS/screen space in the title, would save me clicking then downvoting every time you bait me.
We don't refer to SSR as ray traced reflections even if it's technically true, so we should refer to this as SSDGI.
Wish the dev wouldn't refer to it as RTGI as well.
6:26 Those stairs appear as a translucent ramp on top of stairs. That must be in the geometry. Would need a mod to fix.
If you ever create mods for other games I'd love to see another E3 mod for The Elder Scrolls I.V
Reshade injected RGTI unfortunately only looks good in screenshots as it’s a screen space effect so the lighting will warp and fade as you pan the camera
It is in fact NOT picking up on the normal-maps. This is purely the geometric normals data(edit: and only the viewer facing normal data at that, no occluded geometric data is included or even accessible). No texture data. So no normal maps. Let's not confuse those two things. But also, you just really don't need the fine grained detail from normal maps to reconstruct the scene/camera space depth buffer.
I wanted to replay ME1 for the third time this year and this reshade seems like a given, really wonder how good it looks with MELLO installed.
Has the mod been taken down? All links say it can't be found.
Oh god yes. Serve me up some of that neon space fantasy please. I need this.
Forgot about mass effect in my other comment about rtgi. It’s incredible-but I have all the crazy textures so running radiantGI with RT is too taxing on my 4070.
I'll tell you why people complain:
It is not RayTracing because it does not take into account the bouncing of all the objects present in the game, that is to say those that are not present in the screen space.
Another reason is the materials, it does not behave in a coherent way the illumination of the ReShade with the properties of the material on which it is applied. It only takes into account the color of the material texture.
So it is raytracing because rays are being traced, it’s just being applied in screenspace. It’s pretty simple. Thanks.
@@fromsoftserveSS is not RT.
@ so it actually is. It’s right in the name raytracing. If rays are being traced, then by definition, it is raytracing. Not sure why this is so hard to understand. Hmm.
You're (regarded) as a dense snobby fromdrone thats why.
@@fromsoftserve
Yes, you're not wrong here but it's a bit of a clickbaity title.
People are going to click thinking about "hey, is he doing anything with RTX Remix?" or expecting something big, not a reshade shader for screen space RT.
I think that putting on the title or the thumbnail "SSRTGI" would be better.
oh hell yeah, this is going to give me more headaches but it looks good
hey, man i actually have done extensive testing with martys rtgi immersion ultimate shader. i could never get it to look as good as this, though i was close, my depth buffer tended to have problems. I no longer have access to the shader, so i am extemely excited to see what you can do with it.
Reshade Ray tracing has been an awesome feature and used by badass modders to bring so many older games back to life. Haters gonna hate tho
Ray-tracing being screen space just defeats the purpose, wether it is or isn't doesn't matter
Also ALOT I believe has an optional that rebakes the shadows at a higher resolution, worth trying if you haven't already
Merry Christmas
Do Halo CE next, hell maybe even 2, 3 and 4 would work well lol. That also makes me curious about Infinite : o
ReShade global illumination will never work until the transparency issue is solved (ambient occlusion bleeding through fog for example, one of the most disgusting visual bugs in gaming graphics). And AFAIK, nobody has solved it to this day.
*RTX4070 here...*
Just FYI, I didn't even attempt this as there's money involved for the shaders however I thought people might to know that on an RTX4060Ti he said he can maintain 60FPS at 1440p with this RT mod... personally, I have all three games in the Legendary version locked to 120FPS at 4K (plus some of the Community fixes including the mandatory butt shots).
RT modding? Cool.
Oh, and I tried the ALOT textures but it really caused me some grief with FPS drops especially on the Citadel in the 3rd game I believe (where Joker is waiting for Edi). I still get some FPS drops/stutter but the rest of the game is mostly 120FPS. And a 4K monitor really helps get rid of a lot (not all) of the aliasing.
60Hz VSYNC'd with my RTX4070 was a real problem in the 2nd or 3rd games as my FPS would plummet. I'd alt-tab back or go to a different area and all was fine for a while. I never fixed that, but when I bought the 4K monitor and used GSYNC (VSYnc on globally in NVidia CP) the problem went away. Then I capped all three games to 120FPS.
(*oh, and turn off HDR in the game graphics settings if you have an HDR monitor. And Google how to disable DOF for the 2nd game which seemed to fix much of my "too dark" issues.)
I adore your mods and am playing through bloodborne for the first time thanks to your tips. Just gotta say, screen space raytracing is extremely inferior to fully implemented raytracing. The difference is so vast that I hate seeing them even put in the same category. I agree with your notion on the "no true Scotsman" fallacy many people have with reshade raytracing. But to pretend it's ANYTHING like raytracing implemented on the engine level is crazy to me.
I'm impressed about the quality of the shader, what is the speccific name of the shader ? Is it relight or rtgi ?
No longer on the Nexus.
Do you use an HDR monitor? When I have HDR enabled in game compared with rtgi shader it completely messes up the colors.
A note to anyone watching this, you have to PAY for these Shaders. The video should have been very clear about that from the start!
i finished the game once now with my new rtx gpu ill do it again but this time it will look even better! Im curios only if this mod will work with other mods or modpacks? Because i wanna mod my gave heavy and i hope this rtgi preset wont make some mods incompatible directly.
Don't let EA see this, they will come up with idea to remake the game but will fuck it up eventually
the youtube bell not working 😢 hope you can fix it.
I can't wait until it has path tracing, it makes cyberpunk 2077 a completely different looking game.
real shame we never got any other ME after 3... and that the studio is long gone. Real shame.
I would watch you discuss graphics in any game, it doesn't have to be souls! Also ignore the haters!
ppl put to much stock in graphics even when they can't tell the difference why not just enjoy the games as they are made sure some improvements are nice and all but man ppl take it too far these games don't need this shit they look great and if you change the way they look it's like playing a different game in many cases it's just better to leave it as it is i hate changing older games like this cause exactly the way they were made is what makes them so good i loved how games looked back in the day 2000-2013 now everything is so colorful and flashy it's literally made to catch the attention of 5 years old kids
What's the point in doing this in games with no upscaling + FG support? It'll be unplayable on anything below a 4090 and you've got to rent the shader from the modders patreon.
Guessing this channel doesn't get a lot of views, the mod is still down on Nexus
Look I'm not really familiar with how all this stuff works. But I do have a question the way you made it sound like it's not even using Ray tracing cores on a graphics card correct.
Hellll yeah
Cool stuff. Looking forward to giving it a shot when I have the time. Shame people are hounding you about it.
Slightly related, but seeing all of this is dragging out something that has been bothering me for a long time. This pedantic, tistic, reddit-tier arguing and "erm-akshually" is why I never bothered dedicating myself to game dev. I was running a game dev major back in 2011, and I couldn't stand the mentality of some of my classmates in the later classes. Dropped it, switched majors. Way better off for it.
I can't even put into words how much I miss the more free-form culture in the 90s and 2000s. People making stuff because it's cool instead of arguing about what is effectively game dev "meta." Turning game dev into something you can get an academic piece of paper for has been an absolute disaster. Some of my absolute favorite games are "poorly made" jank. Some cool guys had some cool ideas that might have not been perfect in execution, yet resulted in fun and unique experiences.
Now so much of the industry is watered-down cookie cutter garbage. Where people with 4-year degrees think they're superior to the guy who spent 2 years in a closet working nonstop on something he was passionate about.
The extreme irony is now we have game after game after game that is pure unoptimized slop that's trying to leverage DLSS/TAA/frame gen to make up for fundamentally not understanding (or in many cases NOT EVEN ATTEMPTING to understand) how the underlying tech works. I bet there's a pretty good overlap of the people sperging about this not being real RT and the devs that just load up UE5, drag and drop everything, then pray DLSS will get them from 15 frames to 45.
Anyway, appreciate what you do From. Keep it up. I don't care if a project is perfect. I care that someone is having fun making it.
why was this mod removed from Nexus?
But have you seen Mario Kart 8 Deluxe with RT? Yes it's a game changer.
Will you please update your DA:O rtx mod?
Raytracing is barely noticable with diffuse textures & metallic-based texture shading but hey, it's surely one step above vanilla.
Hope you are using MELLO also.
Don't get me wrong but - Why is the mod removed from the nexus mod site..?
Could this be released for non legendary editions?
It's a reshade shader, I think you can just pay for the shader and use it on the games that reshade supports.
If it's done in screen space it's not ray tracing. Sorry,but that's how it is. The whole point of ray tracing is taking into account light sources emitting materials etc. from everywhere including outside of screen space. That makes it actually somewhat realistic. Also we are confused about the definition of ray tracing. It changed since 2018. Nowadays ray tracing means whatever the F the marketing team wants. But basically it's one or several effects that involves building an acceleration structure ( BVH) ,sending primary rays and tracing their bounces wherever they lead( even outside of screen space). Effects like Global Illumination, Reflections, Ambient Occlusion, Shadows, Translucent Reflections, Caustics etc. A situation where all these or most of these are combined in single procedure we call path tracing which doesn't use any rasterization. Everything you see in the image with path tracing is there because a ray bounced around and gathered necessary information and also denoising was applied because tracing many rays in real time is way too expensive,so fewer are actually traced.
It looks nicer than vanilla so who cares. If you don't like it then don't use it simple as that
This is not ray tracing. It is effective though. Love reshade.
Would mass effect work with nvidia remix?
Does anyone know if you’re able to use this mod on steamdeck?
Mass Effect RTX was deleted
it's just a reshade preset. i have been using my own custom one for years now
i just got mass effect legendary. Can you make a one click installable?
Okay now i did well to subscribe. 😍🥵
the preset gone from nexus
Because its ssrt and not rt. Sure ssrt is performant, but i feel the hole point of rt is to remove all the artifacts from from ss.
Also, is your mod on something else then nexusmod. I can't support them in good conscience.
Agreed, way too political and virtue signalling place. They ban mods that make games historically accurate or remove pronoun lunacy.
mod removed from nexus. Could you give me a link to it?
it's ray tracing but it's not at the level of BVH structured ray tracing GI, I just still hate SSRTGI in general because every lights out from the screen space basically wont gonna render at all even something behind you. so yeah it's semi-fake-RTGI in a sense.
Watching this made me kinda sad. If only Bioware was still Bioware.
The link to the mod doesn't work it's deleted from Nexus
"If a mod uploaded to the site requires a paid mod to function, it will not be permitted." - nexus policy
@@dest1658 Oh well there is still a different RT shader (not as good) that will work.
Is this RTGI shader free? Do I need to pay for it to use this preset?
Edit: Apparently yes.
Sad, because I can’t use foreign payment systems(
fromsoftserve paid off by Big Color to agitate for more color in video games! Also, I have never in my life seen a light or even know what light is, but in your video you keep repeating 'look at the lights' - clearly the behavior of a TH-camr on the take!
And now that I've outright publicly accused you of being a corrupt liar, I will be _incredibly shocked_ if you react in any way to me just innocently Asking Questions.