A lot of people regret getting rid of their HD600/650 series and end up buying another pair again. I've done it twice myself😀 I even know someone who has sold and bought the HD650 FOUR TIMES! There's so many "technically better" headphones on the market than the HD600/650, BUT at the end of the day music is all about Enjoyment. These scale really well, and with the "right" amp/dac some people (me included) find that there's simply no other headphones on earth that sound more pleasing to the ear, regardless of price. Also they have stood the test of time (decades!), I won't be surprised if 10 years from now a lot of people will still love and be talking about the HD600/650, while other ""superior" headphones on the market now will fade in oblivion.,
Are these HD6xx's worth their weight when not using a $$$$ reciver or tube amp? I just have a Sony STR-DH790. And I bought it 2 years ago. I don't really plan on upgrading it anytime soon. The HifiMan Sundara's are what the other headphones are called right? no model number? I think I'm going to buy those. I'm a semi-noob here.
Sold my HD600 so now I'm waiting for 6XX lol wont make that mistake again 😅 its like "hello friend your back" experience, we want them in collection for midrange magic + tubes magic
I started with HD600 i then bought some Sony, B&W, Focal,Hifiman,B&O,Koss, etch etch ... Guess what... I sold them all and buy an HD600 again . Now i only use HD660s ( they are my favorite just a smoothed HD600 with better imaging and tighter bass) and HD600 . I believe that people searching for an upgrade is a waste of time . 90% of the music is mid and highs and high bass , All of that are amazing on HD600 , and for those looking for sub bass then just EQ them they can do that easy , very capable driver .
@@Tripokaridos22 Well to be honest first that came close to HD600 was my Focal Clear with better highs and bass, still own them as they can scale very well with gear especially tubes. Now I also have Verite Closed and here I will compare midrange of 6XX with them as they are champions in that regard. Third and my most favourite is Audio Technica ADX5000, those are something else. Balanced and transparent sound, scaling with gear superb. At this case I give no chance to any Sennheiser (dont count that for 60k) sound is so clear and well defined that I could have only those :) ofc with my tubes they are heart of my headphones
This was a great review and I love the new unscripted free flowing structure. Looking forward to more reviews from the best reviewer from The Headphone Show.
As a newbie to the hobby, I love the 6xx’s. Sure, there is definitely room for improvement, but for now I’m happy with these, the sundara’s were costing almost double of the Senny’s, add on the amp and dac cost, it would be way too much for me. But I definitely hope to pick up the Sundaras in a few years time.
From Hifiman Customer Services…. Hi there, Thanks for contacting us. We have noticed online that there is chatter of a so-called “Stealth Revision” of the Sundara but I can assure you that it doesn’t exist. No headband changes, no driver changes, no cup changes, nothing. The only change, which we felt so tiny we didn’t mention publicly, was that we changed the glue used on the PaliPads (which are what Sundara uses.) That’s it, the glue on the pads. We did this to enhance the durability of them as we found in warm conditions, they would over time slowly come apart and this new glue is better suited for such environments. Therefore, you do not need to worry about whether you have the “latest model” as there is only one. Sorry if the rumour mill that can be the internet gave you any concerns about the Sundara and should you have any other questions, do please feel free to email us anytime. Kind regards. Jeff"
Thanks, I'm currently looking for HD6XX replacement as my second headphones due to lack of staging on Sennheiser, and Sundara looks like a clear step up in any regard.
How sure are you that it will only last 2 yrs??.. Unless you will use it outside while doing sports activity which is so awkward to do.. all of us use these type of headphone in our room, home, or studio.. Sundara will last just like any sennheiser.. it depends on how careless & clumsy the user then any headphones will only last as short as a month..
Great review. How would these fair with an EQ boost to the sub bass? Would this help to improve the factory voicing - or is it more a limitation of the drivers?
ngl when i first watched this review I was like 'this guy is just being a hater for the 6xx. i'm just going to listen to the overwhelming positive reviews of it.' And now that I have them, they sound very boring/muted (running them off a JDS Atom Amp). I thought the midrange wouldn't be as recessed as they are since everyone raves about the vocals, however they do sound recessed to me. Which is why I'm back here to see how the Sundara fairs :p
I have a Schiit Fulla 4 and a FiiO BTR5 connected to the DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm and the SHP9500 for reference. Are the Sundaras a more fun listen compared to the 6XX? I also recently found a 660s for $220. So I’m debating between the 6XX, 660s, and Sundara.
Hey Precog, what do you think of the r70x's in comparison to these. Crinacle speaks quite highly of those headpones but resolve thinks the sundara is better value. I was interested in your opinion on it. The r70x is a lot cheaper where I am. Thank you!
I have all HD 5 HD6 series . and Sundara. From all HD6 series HD650 is the darker smoother, 600 the most neutral and 660s is in the Middle . All hd 6 series are warmer than Sundara. HD660s vs Sundara , Sundara more clear bigger sounstage but sound artificial and metalic some times , HD 660s warmee more natural better timbre , smaller soundstage and amazing imaging ( i would say a bit better than sundara but close) Both Sundara and 660s are amazing so its all about taste . Be aware i am on a third pair of Sundara the first had left driver problem and the second the membrane waa crackling... Hifiman has great support change them under warranty.
@@Precogvision 660s are not darker than 650. Some people report that on Headfi forums and thats because there was a banch of 6XX that sound brighter than normal also use different pads. Normally 660s are in the Middle brighter the 600 then 660 and darker the 650 , i also have 6xx and they sound a little bit brighter than 650 but not so much. Other than that technically 660s are way better with better imaging detail sepperation ... But keeping the warm character and smoothness of 6 line. Sundara are like i am listening something digital so clear and fast and 660s is like listening something so natural analogue . Honestly i love both and use them depending my mood. But if anyone doesnt like warm headphones then Lcd 2 , hd 6 line , Empyrian etch etch are not for them.
I think it’s difficult to say because of the pads. Worn pads have been shown to measure darker. The 660S I heard at Senn store was darker than the 650 haha.
@@Tripokaridos22 yikes. what version sundara do you have? I bought mine at the start of 2021. so far no issues. thanks for the lengthy reply! I always appreciate long detailed insights! im curious how much of a downgrade the imaging is from the 660s to the 6xx? I'm considering going 6xx since it's the classic studio headphone that a lot of people that I follow use the 650 for mixing and referencing. (i just lean towards the 6xx since it's the cheaper version lol) but I'm quite scared too what if it's too dark or warm for my taste. I do appreciate some warmth as long as it doesn't smear details. 660s is the most expensive and most similar to the sundara but I guess ill have to save up for more if I want the cleanest presentation with the most detail and technicalities? or is the 6xx just a slightly less technical headphone with tastefully warm mids? but then how muddy can the 6xx get in busy heavier tracks on the low mids to bass area? I hear the 600 has great tuning but not much technicality wise but great timbre? honestly i'm just looking for a dynamic driver headphone that can compliment the sundara in technicality but adding that timbre that dynamics can provide with a neutral tuning. nothing too warm but with enough details that aren't overly smeared.
Great review! I agree with your sound preferences, they seem closest to mine compared to many other reviewers. As much as I enjoy the timbre of the 6XX/650, it really is not detailed or resolving at all and I would easily take an equalized IEM over it. And yeah the Sundara is the best planar I’ve heard under $500 even comparable to the HE-500.
Thanks really enjoyed the informal but stripped back informative style. I have the 6xx and it's my second open back my first being the Philips shp9600 which I reasly like and find more enjoyable than the 6xx. I am looking at getting the Sundara next hence why I was searching for comparisons of the two. Is the 6xx worth keeping for the mid range and timbre for vocals and relaxed listening or could I cover it with the Sundara and sell them on to help fund a warmer dynamic driver of better "quality" to replace the 9600, although I will not be selling those.Done the subscribe and like.
the measurements I saw said for 102 db 5.7v and 250mw, so zen can/topping l30, that sort of range or better of course as apparently they scale well esp with voltage increase
I’ve tried the 6xx and I loved the treble, it’s so natural compared to BA’s. The imaging is awful and the bass is muddy. I haven’t tried the sundara but I’m pretty sure I won’t like it bc of the rounded ear cups and tbh planars are famous of the deep bass and obviously the sundara can’t deliver this.
A lot of people regret getting rid of their HD600/650 series and end up buying another pair again. I've done it twice myself😀 I even know someone who has sold and bought the HD650 FOUR TIMES! There's so many "technically better" headphones on the market than the HD600/650, BUT at the end of the day music is all about Enjoyment. These scale really well, and with the "right" amp/dac some people (me included) find that there's simply no other headphones on earth that sound more pleasing to the ear, regardless of price. Also they have stood the test of time (decades!), I won't be surprised if 10 years from now a lot of people will still love and be talking about the HD600/650, while other ""superior" headphones on the market now will fade in oblivion.,
Are these HD6xx's worth their weight when not using a $$$$ reciver or tube amp? I just have a Sony STR-DH790. And I bought it 2 years ago. I don't really plan on upgrading it anytime soon.
The HifiMan Sundara's are what the other headphones are called right? no model number? I think I'm going to buy those. I'm a semi-noob here.
I’m confused, they may be good and natural sounding, but why would they be better than superior headphones? Less fatigue or something?
Sold my HD600 so now I'm waiting for 6XX lol wont make that mistake again 😅 its like "hello friend your back" experience, we want them in collection for midrange magic + tubes magic
I started with HD600 i then bought some Sony, B&W, Focal,Hifiman,B&O,Koss, etch etch ... Guess what... I sold them all and buy an HD600 again . Now i only use HD660s ( they are my favorite just a smoothed HD600 with better imaging and tighter bass) and HD600 . I believe that people searching for an upgrade is a waste of time . 90% of the music is mid and highs and high bass , All of that are amazing on HD600 , and for those looking for sub bass then just EQ them they can do that easy , very capable driver .
@@Tripokaridos22 Well to be honest first that came close to HD600 was my Focal Clear with better highs and bass, still own them as they can scale very well with gear especially tubes. Now I also have Verite Closed and here I will compare midrange of 6XX with them as they are champions in that regard. Third and my most favourite is Audio Technica ADX5000, those are something else. Balanced and transparent sound, scaling with gear superb. At this case I give no chance to any Sennheiser (dont count that for 60k) sound is so clear and well defined that I could have only those :) ofc with my tubes they are heart of my headphones
This was a great review and I love the new unscripted free flowing structure. Looking forward to more reviews from the best reviewer from The Headphone Show.
Get a tube amp you will love the 6xx. I hated my HD 6xx until I ran it on a tube amp.
But the problems he mentioned will only be amplified with a tube amp
Solid review. Running my Sundaras off a Qudelix 5k balanced and they always impress.
As a newbie to the hobby, I love the 6xx’s. Sure, there is definitely room for improvement, but for now I’m happy with these, the sundara’s were costing almost double of the Senny’s, add on the amp and dac cost, it would be way too much for me.
But I definitely hope to pick up the Sundaras in a few years time.
invest in otl amp for 6xx
Amazon UK had the Sundaras for £150 recently. What a steal
From Hifiman Customer Services….
Hi there,
Thanks for contacting us. We have noticed online that there is chatter of a so-called “Stealth Revision” of the Sundara but I can assure you that it doesn’t exist. No headband changes, no driver changes, no cup changes, nothing. The only change, which we felt so tiny we didn’t mention publicly, was that we changed the glue used on the PaliPads (which are what Sundara uses.) That’s it, the glue on the pads. We did this to enhance the durability of them as we found in warm conditions, they would over time slowly come apart and this new glue is better suited for such environments.
Therefore, you do not need to worry about whether you have the “latest model” as there is only one. Sorry if the rumour mill that can be the internet gave you any concerns about the Sundara and should you have any other questions, do please feel free to email us anytime.
Kind regards.
Jeff"
this review is absolutely hilarious i can tell you we have the same preferences
welcome back on your channel 😄
How much of a difference do you notice between the Sundara and the 400SE?
Thanks, I'm currently looking for HD6XX replacement as my second headphones due to lack of staging on Sennheiser, and Sundara looks like a clear step up in any regard.
H6xx series( not 660s) lives on timbre. They would be garbage had they not had possess that magic timbre. Plus they scale really well
The only thing that hold this sundara to be the best is reliability & qc control issues, i won't splash $350 that lasts only for 1-2 years
How sure are you that it will only last 2 yrs??.. Unless you will use it outside while doing sports activity which is so awkward to do.. all of us use these type of headphone in our room, home, or studio.. Sundara will last just like any sennheiser.. it depends on how careless & clumsy the user then any headphones will only last as short as a month..
The headphones will last a decade.
Great review. How would these fair with an EQ boost to the sub bass? Would this help to improve the factory voicing - or is it more a limitation of the drivers?
they EQ fairly well, when you realy push them (+7DB) they don't sound as effortless as an LCD-X but they cost literally 1/3
ngl when i first watched this review I was like 'this guy is just being a hater for the 6xx. i'm just going to listen to the overwhelming positive reviews of it.' And now that I have them, they sound very boring/muted (running them off a JDS Atom Amp). I thought the midrange wouldn't be as recessed as they are since everyone raves about the vocals, however they do sound recessed to me. Which is why I'm back here to see how the Sundara fairs :p
I have a Schiit Fulla 4 and a FiiO BTR5 connected to the DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm and the SHP9500 for reference. Are the Sundaras a more fun listen compared to the 6XX? I also recently found a 660s for $220. So I’m debating between the 6XX, 660s, and Sundara.
What do you think about daily use and comfort? Will the Sundaras be good enough in this aspect?
I would like to hear your opinion about ananda, how do you like it compared to sundara? Thank you!
Hey Precog, what do you think of the r70x's in comparison to these. Crinacle speaks quite highly of those headpones but resolve thinks the sundara is better value. I was interested in your opinion on it. The r70x is a lot cheaper where I am. Thank you!
I don't really like the R70X. Sounds grainy. Tonality of it is decent, I guess, but I agree that the Sundara is better.
@@Precogvision thank you so much for the response 😀
Great content.
Do you think these would pair well with a Schiit magni/modi combo? Been looking for another pair of headphones to compliment my 6xx’s
would be interesting to hear thoughts on the hd660s vs sundara since you've touched up on the 6xx already here. 🤔
660’s just a darker 6XX from memory
I have all HD 5 HD6 series . and Sundara. From all HD6 series HD650 is the darker smoother, 600 the most neutral and 660s is in the Middle .
All hd 6 series are warmer than Sundara.
HD660s vs Sundara , Sundara more clear bigger sounstage but sound artificial and metalic some times , HD 660s warmee more natural better timbre , smaller soundstage and amazing imaging ( i would say a bit better than sundara but close)
Both Sundara and 660s are amazing so its all about taste . Be aware i am on a third pair of Sundara the first had left driver problem and the second the membrane waa crackling... Hifiman has great support change them under warranty.
@@Precogvision 660s are not darker than 650. Some people report that on Headfi forums and thats because there was a banch of 6XX that sound brighter than normal also use different pads.
Normally 660s are in the Middle brighter the 600 then 660 and darker the 650 , i also have 6xx and they sound a little bit brighter than 650 but not so much.
Other than that technically 660s are way better with better imaging detail sepperation ... But keeping the warm character and smoothness of 6 line.
Sundara are like i am listening something digital so clear and fast and 660s is like listening something so natural analogue . Honestly i love both and use them depending my mood. But if anyone doesnt like warm headphones then Lcd 2 , hd 6 line , Empyrian etch etch are not for them.
I think it’s difficult to say because of the pads. Worn pads have been shown to measure darker. The 660S I heard at Senn store was darker than the 650 haha.
@@Tripokaridos22 yikes. what version sundara do you have? I bought mine at the start of 2021. so far no issues. thanks for the lengthy reply! I always appreciate long detailed insights!
im curious how much of a downgrade the imaging is from the 660s to the 6xx? I'm considering going 6xx since it's the classic studio headphone that a lot of people that I follow use the 650 for mixing and referencing. (i just lean towards the 6xx since it's the cheaper version lol) but I'm quite scared too what if it's too dark or warm for my taste. I do appreciate some warmth as long as it doesn't smear details.
660s is the most expensive and most similar to the sundara but I guess ill have to save up for more if I want the cleanest presentation with the most detail and technicalities? or is the 6xx just a slightly less technical headphone with tastefully warm mids? but then how muddy can the 6xx get in busy heavier tracks on the low mids to bass area? I hear the 600 has great tuning but not much technicality wise but great timbre?
honestly i'm just looking for a dynamic driver headphone that can compliment the sundara in technicality but adding that timbre that dynamics can provide with a neutral tuning. nothing too warm but with enough details that aren't overly smeared.
Great review! I agree with your sound preferences, they seem closest to mine compared to many other reviewers. As much as I enjoy the timbre of the 6XX/650, it really is not detailed or resolving at all and I would easily take an equalized IEM over it. And yeah the Sundara is the best planar I’ve heard under $500 even comparable to the HE-500.
Thanks really enjoyed the informal but stripped back informative style. I have the 6xx and it's my second open back my first being the Philips shp9600 which I reasly like and find more enjoyable than the 6xx. I am looking at getting the Sundara next hence why I was searching for comparisons of the two. Is the 6xx worth keeping for the mid range and timbre for vocals and relaxed listening or could I cover it with the Sundara and sell them on to help fund a warmer dynamic driver of better "quality" to replace the 9600, although I will not be selling those.Done the subscribe and like.
What amp do you suggest for sundara? Cheers
Any amp would work just fine unless it's a tube amp. Planars are usually picky about tubes from what I have heard.
the measurements I saw said for 102 db 5.7v and 250mw, so zen can/topping l30, that sort of range or better of course as apparently they scale well esp with voltage increase
@@snowmean1 or schitt magni 3+, forgot that popular one.
For you BEST headphone under 400€? For all rounder use.
Sundara
I care about build quality, why do you ?
When i heard the sundara i immediately sold my 6xx lol. Now i want the Arya 😅
Amazing what some glue can do 😂😂😂
I’ve tried the 6xx and I loved the treble, it’s so natural compared to BA’s. The imaging is awful and the bass is muddy. I haven’t tried the sundara but I’m pretty sure I won’t like it bc of the rounded ear cups and tbh planars are famous of the deep bass and obviously the sundara can’t deliver this.
Oh belive me they have super punchy bass.
@@Anomalyn1 This is not true. Simply bc in order to reach punchy bass the driver should extend to the sup-bass.
@@ammar5400 Agree, but just listen to them live. Then add some EQ and they are perfect.
LE: they have sub-bass.
@@Anomalyn1 How they have sup-bass when they roll-off significantly in that region?
@@ammar5400 Somebody that has tried them said the bass has punch and you continue to argue. Try them like he asked and see for yourself.