Great review as always! Fun facts: In Sanskrit, Sundara means beautiful, Deva means God, Ananda means happiness, Arya means honorable and Susvara means melodious.
I just got my 2020 Sundara last week. Im pretty sure a minor difference in pad design and material resulted in the shift in sound you’ve identified. Literally the drivers angle being fractionally different due to the pads being fractionally thinner at the front. Anyway cheers for the re-review! :)
@@aldarrin They can. I sent my old pads to Resolve to swap to a 2020 revision and they measured and sounded like the old. As long as the pads you get are actually the new ones, the swap will "update" the headphone.
Little update after 5 months of (very) happy owning of these. I'm using them with the Ifi Zen Dac V2. They really benefit from going balanced: the sound gets a little more clear, cohesive, refined. After a bit of use and switching to a balanced cable, they became smooth like a pillow. I can drive them at fairly high volume without getting any harshness, shoutyness or fatigue whatsoever. It's a very relaxed, yet fun and engaging experience. They sound like a charm, loving every note!
@@Icemanz666i’ve got the v1 zen dacs and have been thinking about a sub500$ headphone and now im really inclined towards getting these. Also it’d be a first lets say audiphile move from me. Would You say that the Zen Dac/Sundara combo is a well working one in your experience? Thanks!
They fixed the pads on these which compensate for the lack of cup swivel. The spikes in the high end are gone and the low end is extended. They basically fixed all the flaws on the original version. It's an excellent headphone and an excellent value. It also scales very well.
I purchased the Sundara a few months ago, (first planar magnetic) and they are the gateway to many more to come. I also purchased 2.5 balanced cables and the Qudelix 5K portable amp. Thanks ZEOS!
Sorry I'm commenting on a year old comment but I was curious. How do the sundara's sound with the qudelix 5k amp? I have that amp, the x2hr's and the Sennheiser hd58x but looking to purchase the sundara's soon.
@@bigdave216 I have the 2020 Sundara and 5k with a balanced cable. They sound really good. Obviously no ANC, but I’ve had the Sony XM5 and Bose QC45 and the Sundara with the 5k sound so much better. 5k Battery doesn’t quite make it through a full workday though. Returned the xM5 and QC45 and use a Soundcore Q30 when I want portable headphones with a long battery life. The Soundcores have the worse sound out of all of them, but they’re pretty good and don’t hurt my ears as the Sony and Bose do - plus I got them for about $60.
There's no advantage in having a balanced cable if the gear has unbalanced connections. Don't fall for some crap that idiots who think they have golden ears say.
@@quackgarage9551 Yeah - Not sure I notice the difference much with the balanced cable. I was under the impression you got higher output using it. But basically the stock cable was really bad and I went for the balanced one when I replaced it.
There's a subtle visual detail between the two. The OGs have a slightly more transparent grill, whereas the 2020s are more blacked out. This is because the 2020s are actually ever-so-slightly dampened to give them ever-so-slightly smoother and warmer mids. The difference is very small.
I have to move to headphones from speakers for reasons, and what I'm picking up doing my research is that if you're going to be a headphone person, you can go in any direction you like, but you probably need to start with a set of these and a set of HD600s so you have your basic food groups covered, so to speak.
A few months ago, I bought myself a pair for the office, a second pair for the home theater room, and a third pair for my wife. We love them. (We don't love the stock cable, though.)
The single best headphone you can get for the price, it beats everything until you get to something like an Ananda or a Focal Elex/Elear. DT1990 and HD660S wish they were this. If you're looking for a fun headphone then like just EQ up the bass on the Sundara or put it on a warm source cause for the price it has the best technical performance.
@@Centrioless well the Zeus are around the same price. However the point I was making is he said that the sundaras are the best up until around the £700 mark. I was just stating some of the, in my opinion clear winners over the sundara. Even if u want reference cans the neumanns are better there too even tho there closed. Dunno the sundara are great however not close to the best I don't think.
Thx for your reviews, i recently bought one of these in belgium and it s definitely a game changer for someone like me who came from a noise cancelling headphone (sony xm3) to one of these with an ifi zen dac v2 (bass boost awesomeness). I learned a lot about headphone thx to you and dms, joshua alour, etc. Push that like button ;)
I just want to put in my two cents regarding the Sundara 2020 version. After watching at least 5 other video reviews and reading user reviews all over the place, I pulled the trigger on these. I personally think they're not the end all be all headphone. They remind me a lot of my AKG Q701's where they do spectacular in specific genres like rock and metal for the Sundaras, Jazz and Pop for Q701's. They don't exactly have a midrange body like the Etymotic ER4S, but they have some sort of upper midrange hump around 900hz-1khz ish where it adds a bit of thickness which counters the lean nature. However due to the lean midrange, they open up opportunities to hear layers of vocals and instruments. I'm a weeb and like jpop and the likes, the vocalists I listen to tend to extend towards the 2-4khz area and unfortunately they do sound screechy due to the spike somewhere around the 4-6khz area. The treble is also an issue with vocals, if you pronounce the letter S, you'll notice that there is certain frequency that gets pronounced. With the Sundaras it's not natural, the treble spike is too emphasized on the lower part of the spectrum and comes off as metallic. What surprised me most is that they didn't perform well with EDM/electronic music due to the lower treble spike. Electronic music likes to play around with higher frequencies and it's a shame I didn't like the Sundaras for this genre. I have no comments when it comes to bass, I'm unfortunately spoiled by my Audeze iSine 20's which perform much better for sub-bass. The Sundara's bass digs deep but they seem to drop off fairly hard below 30hz, they don't particularly emphasize mid-bass. If anything the bass is just right. If you’ve never heard planar bass, the Sundara will amaze you. These Sundaras are also heavy, I put them on a scale and they weighed 400 grams. Fortunately though the weight distribution on the Sundaras are spectacular. They feel even lighter than a pair of Hyper X Cloud 2’s which go for 330 grams on the scale. This is due to the wide top headband that covers a lot of surface area and the clamping force. These headphones do clamp and IMO they should. The pads are also on the cooler side which is nice despite having the pleather outside. They don’t feel gross when it’s humid in my room like the HD600’s. For pairing, a warm amp will compliment the Sundara. I have an ODAC/O2 fitted with a Burson V5i opamp that actually mutes the 7khz treble and warms up the lower midrange of the Sundara. On my JDS Atom AMP/DAC, the Sundaras sound flat which is a different type of fun. The Sundaras upsides is detail retrieval, low volume listening for music, and someone who plays a game called Squad (3500+ hours), these appreciate loud gaming sessions. The Sundaras are not a pair of daily drivers. As someone who owns a pair of Galaxy Buds Plus and Apple Airpods, the Sundaras are the Galaxy Buds Plus, and the Sennheiser HD600’s would be Apple Airpods. The Apple Airpods just work with every genre and shows no flaws. They’re an earbud you put in your ears and they accept every genre despite the lack of sub bass. The Galaxy Buds Plus are technically superior and great for critical listening (phone calls), but, and I know some of you objective readers are going to cringe at this comment; but they don’t have that soul and warmth for general music listening. You might be wondering why I gave this headphone such a critical review. They're not bad, but they're not something I would give an absolute 5/5 to, the HD600 would be a 5/5. The Sundaras offer an amazing experience and the price to performance is just amazing compared to the HD600, but they're not a daily driver. Edit: Forgot to add soundstage and imaging. Sundaras win hands down best gaming headphone I've tried. It just throws detail out there and combine it with the sharp imaging, the HD600 doesn't even compete especially when it comes to frontal/rear sounds.
@@b__p I honestly think headphones for electronic music can shine. It really depends on the person, and I'm fine if you completely disagree with what I'm about to say. But I think electronic music needs to have a headphone/IEM that sounds smooth in the highs (but not recessed), the mids need to be sweet and airy to let vocals to shine through, with bass being the platform that provides the oodles of rumble and punch. So far the Sony 1000XM4's and Sennheiser HD280's have satisfied me in this regard. I've tried about 20 mid-fi headphones and 35 IEM's in my lifetime? I narrowed down my selection over time and I'm completely happy with what I have now.
Hart Audio Cables fucked my order up so many times I don't do business with them anymore. Kept sending me there classic red color instead of the black color I asked for.. three times they messed up. I know it's expensive.. but I've been rocking a GUCraftsman cable with my Hifiman Ananda for a year now. Love it because it's similar to a thicker IEM braided cable.
I got HD650 and Sundara and tested them both. Both are nice headphones and it was a tough call, but I ended up returning the Sundara. I found the HD650 more comfy on my ears and less sweaty for long listening sessions. I also preferred the warm tuning of the Hd650 over the slightly cooler, more analytical sound of the Sundara. There ware a handful of songs with certain effects applied (such as Bon Iver’s “Creeks”) in which I really noticed the Sundara’s superior resolving of detail. But for most music, especially strings and vocals, the HD650 just sounds so lush and beautiful and non-fatiguing. And yeah, the HD650 do have an intimate soundstage, but personally I enjoy that because I’m listening while working at home all day, and I find the intimate soundstage helps me to stay focused.
Sundaras are amazing. On mine I pad swapped them with Dekoni Hybrid Elite Audeze Pads (not Dekoni hifiman pads). You gain more comfortable padding obviously. And wider soundstage, as well as a pleasant increase in the low end, it doesn't change the natural air of the headphone, just improves what's already great about it.
@@mikes41720 Because they're twice as thick as the hifiman pads, thus the increase in soundstage. and comfort, it has way more padding obviously, and my ears don't touch inside the cup anymore.
@@ONeillsCreationWorkshop thanks for the feedback! Dekoni audio replacement ear pads compatible with Audeze LCD headphones (elite hybrid) for $79.99 on Amazon, right? Just making sure I get the right one. Thanks!
@@mikes41720 Yes, those are the same ones I used, (bought mine on drop for a little less $ tho, still same), but be aware the pad diameter is wider than the Sundara cup, I think it looks cool. and the back of the Audeze pad has a 3M adhesive ring, first I pealed of all the glue very carefully, it was a struggle, so be careful not to rip it or find a solvent to remove the glue but not damage the leather. You will also still need to use the Hifiman Clip ring for the new pads, and put it under the dekoni pad retention ring, then attach. The clamp force will be slightly stronger, I don't even notice it at all now. If you want to see what the Audeze pads look like on a Sundara go to my Instagram page, link is in my profile.
How do they compare to the HD 660 s? Thanks in advance! (P.s. Just as an all in one, all day headphone) or what would you recommend? edit: coming from a guy who used to daily drive a pair of hesh 3's and now uses a base boosted 560s (around and below 75 Hz + 6 dB).
Price should be the same. They switched the material on the pads. I sent an old pair of Sundara pads to Resolve and he swapped them to a 2020 Sundara and they measured and sounded like the old pairs. There should be new versions at most places that sell them assuming they sold enough to get through the old pairs as Hifiman only makes this version now. The sound difference is that the new Sundara have less of a rescission in the transition from upper mids to treble and it comes across as even more natural than the already natural sounding old pair.
After doing reserach about old vs new and so on, I finally got mine for 290 USD. And you know what - I don't care about what version it is anymore - they sound good!
A few people contacted Hifiman directly to know more about the revision and the company told them the 2018 and 2020 models are exactly the same headphone, but every reviewer did find sonic differences between the two models. That is confusing!
Dude your listening room is my fucking dream holy wow. Also the fact that you can find these now just about anywhere for 299 makes these a new gold standard for sub 500 cans.
Zeos I love you lmao that ending was gold😂. As a Sundara OG owner (also my first ever audio-file headphone) I literally understood every word of how the sound was moved. I bet the new ones are just as insane as u say they are. Not gonna buy them tho, there’s no need
Put the lamb skin Dekoni pads on the OG Sundaras and they sound better than the 2020 with their "upgraded" pads. Put the same lambskin Dekonis on the 2020 Sundaras and they sound the same. The only thing they changed is the pads on the 2020s. No other physical changes were made.
Damn! So happy for you comment! Bc that's exactly the set up that I have. OG Sundaras with Dekoni pads and I love the way they sound... Hate listening to Z bc every time I tune in seems like he is putting me off track... Hahaha... Thanks! I'm keeping my set up 😇
They changed the front side of the pads to be thinner in shape than the back side. Im getting the Arya v2 today I'm nervous the Sundara 2020 might be all i need. I been on the market for a grado rs2e for a while but i think the sundara 2020 are better after burnin. They sound more natural more cleaner. The same " you are there" sound i loved from the rs2e. The orginal Sundura cable gives the bass a tighter response.
Have you tried the nectar bee headphones! The guy who created the electro static hive x headphones. Sajeev great guy and just received them this week. Loving them so far.
I have a Bee, and was lucky enough to give Sajeev some feedback as he was prototyping them (he's kind of a buddy of mine at this point, after lots of correspondence re: both the Hive and the Bee). They do some incredible things in the lower frequencies... reaching so incredibly low as to give a very visceral, chest-thumping experience, much like listening to a speaker setup with a well-dialed sub. I found that I had to add quite a bit of upper-mids and presence-region frequencies to get a natural sound out of them. But I think for bassheads, they'd be a really outstanding headphone. And for the money, they're a no-brainer! Huge fan of Nectar, I am.
Pad shape still the same as og. New ones just different stitching to avoid them falling apart like some old ones did. The stitching slightly changes the seal. And possibly the inner material is slightly different... Pretty big change in sound for such small change to pads. For the better.
I'm quite excited. I have the Sennheiser HD 579 and HD 700. I - HATE- the cable for the Sennheiser HD 700. I actually had to use the warranty to replace them since they had a disconnect in the left side after some use. The replacement eventually began failing too. The replacement cost for the cable is asinine too - $173, on Sennheisers' website. I bought the Sundara to replace the Sennheiser HD 700 and am waiting for them. As much as I actually loved the HD 700, I had to use a toner to get them where I wanted them. They are vastly superior to the 579 but they are discontinued at this point either way.
rom Hifiman Customer Services…. Hi there, Thanks for contacting us. We have noticed online that there is chatter of a so-called “Stealth Revision” of the Sundara but I can assure you that it doesn’t exist. No headband changes, no driver changes, no cup changes, nothing. The only change, which we felt so tiny we didn’t mention publicly, was that we changed the glue used on the PaliPads (which are what Sundara uses.) That’s it, the glue on the pads. We did this to enhance the durability of them as we found in warm conditions, they would over time slowly come apart and this new glue is better suited for such environments. Therefore, you do not need to worry about whether you have the “latest model” as there is only one. Sorry if the rumour mill that can be the internet gave you any concerns about the Sundara and should you have any other questions, do please feel free to email us anytime. Kind regards. Jeff"
@@SnafuWarrior I'll try to keep track, but yes shipment is taking too long to get delivered... I wish it reached earlier... The AMP will be taking way more time too...
@@MordeKaiser29 Thanks a lot! I'm travelling at the end of July to EU, so there I'll be able to test the Sundaras, and make my decision, so it's not too late. I already have Meze 99 classics, which have plenty of bass so the lack of one on Sundaras doesn't worry me that much. Best of luck!
I'm so tempted, but I already have the HE4XX, Verum 1 and GL2000. If I buy anything else from Hifiman it will probs be the Arya, sometime in the distant future. But I should really get myself some dynamics, because I only know what planars sound like.
The Verum 1 is really that good as people say? How they compare with both HE4xx and GL2000? You dont need to do a complete review but i would be very grateful if you say which one do you prefer and why… Im between M1060c, Sundara and Verum 1. Sundara is easier to get but look that it will have less bass than i like. M1060c probably have a lot of bass but a little muddy mid-range (i love vocals). My hope is the Verum 1, seems to be a perfect all-rounder and i can EQ the bass if needed. I just hope that it dont have "veiled" mids, i like smooth vocals but i hate excessive veiled ones xD BTW if you want Dynamics probably the best option for less than $1000 is the Focal Elex. I had some minutes listening to it and it has a very nice punchy. The problem is that i live on a country where i cant import from DROP and this headphone have too many, and i mean, TOOOOO MANY, QC problems to buy from any other place, especially used. People who buy directly from DROP always get a replacement but i will be screwed if i buy it and get a QC problem.
@@matheusmazzei4077 The Verum 1 are my favourite headphones. I have zmf ori suede pads on them, and they're dark and intimate. They're the ultimate techno cans because the sub-bass timbre is so good. They're also the least fatiguing headphones to listen to, with suede pads on at least. They're the best value by far for sound, but you sacrifice some build quality. You need a low output impedance amp to drive them though, because they're only 8ohm. The GL2000 are wide and airy, and slightly more detailed than verum. They're better for 70s, 80s, rock, jazz etc, but also some house. They image the best of all 3. They're obviously more capable than verum, more neutral and spacious, but they don't handle sub-bass as well, and have a completely different presentation. They handle upper-bass slightly better than the verum. They're not worth twice as much as verum whatsoever, but you pay for tuning and build quality. I imagine they're closer to sundara in presentation, whereas verum is said to have more of an Audeze sound. The HE4XX are v-shaped and fun with sparkly highs and lots of impact, but bass extension lacks compared to verum or GL2000. I just got the Harmonicdyne Zeus today, and they're like HE4XX on steroids lol, so much impact.
@@matheusmazzei4077 They're not better necessarily, the suede just darkens them up a bit, which suits their tuning imo. Ori pads just happen to be the right diameter, and they're thicker than ZMF Eikon pads, and also angled. I think the thickness also helps with the bass. The verum stock pads (at least from the kickstarter) were cheap and nasty; they left black rings on my headphone stand. I think they ship with different pads now. I have some of the verum perforated pads too, but they're too bass-light for my taste. ZMF Ori hit the spot for me. Superluxe HD681B pads also fit the Verum 1, good for a more detailed and neutral sound, but not very comfy.
I had bought "best build quality" headphones from sennheiser, they had creaks in the tilting zone. A little bit of silicon grease solved the problem, now 2 years later everything is fine
5:48 I kinda wish I did, but my stock cable refuses to work with my sundaras. Other cables work with them, and the cable works on its own but the cable that came with the headphones will not work with them.
owned these and all i can say is: EQ THEM. put them on harman tuning and (for me) i increased the subbass and bass just a touch. they become bass rumbly because Hifiman drivers. They become much better AND can slam if the song demands bass slam. i also own TH610 (swapped pads and attenuation ring) and DT1990 and i always found myself defaulting to these as a daily driver cus of how gentler and relaxing they are. These bois can punch well above their weight honestly
Just bought these based on your review, and now I'm looking for a nice and cheap amp to drive them. Would you choose the Magni 3+ or the Heresy? Or should I look elsewhere?
I know this is off topic but Zeos do you think that there will be a refresh if the adx family. like the ad-700x [which im still mad you havent reviewed] and ad-2000x. i have the 700x and i would like to get the 1000x but if they are making a new series i dont want to get a headphones that almost a decade old.
Mine came in today in just a plain box similar to what Drop uses sometimes for their headphones mostly brown with a little strip that indicated it was Hifiman Sundara and no booklet and a QR scan box with warranty and a serial and if you follow them on Facebook an extra 6 months warranty no booklet though. I can't figure out which version I got. I bought mine from Newegg.
Great review, thanks for your video. How much power (mW), as minimum, do Sundaras need from amplifiers? 1W x 2 @32 Ohm delivered from SMSL M500 MK3 could be enough?
Love these cans. I feel they work best with a little added warmth...on the Schiit Asgard 3 they're so good. And if I want some gooey retro vibes I pair them with a Xduoo MT-602 hybrid and sit back and just chill. Highly recommended. Thanks Z for all the great and (mostly) rational audiophile infotainment. ;-)
My 2020 sundaras have a fucked up left driver that tanks the signal response below around 100hz, leading to a noticable difference in bass response between both sides. QC issues are definitely still present.
Coming from Audio Technica ad-500x, this is a jaw dropping improvement. Mountains by Hans Zimmer gave me full body tingles and goosebumps at the 2 minute mark.
That Hifiman cable could be a bit better and more flexible than the moon audio black dragon cable. Seriously... just a few labeled heat shrink tubes missing.
Have the Sundara from May 2019 AXPONA. Realized the pads are hot and not good for long listening sections. Thanks for to you for the Dekoni Beyer Pad review, as I replaced them with the Dekoni Audio Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin Replacement Ear Pads for HiFiMan HE Series. $80 well spent this year. They had 8' cloth covered cables (from the 400S) as a replacement cable I ordered at the same time.
I listened to the old Sundara on a hifi show with me Rupert Neve amp. Within seconds I love the sound. It will sound more open on my Musical Fidelity amp. But I am still buying the Ergo 2 helmet speakers.
My Sundaras arrive today, really excited to finally try them. By the way does anyone know what the manufacturer for that desk pad is? It's really cool but I can't find it anywhere.
Hi there , I got the Sundara's and looking for and AMP and DAC to pair them with , many recommended me the the Schiit Magni IE or the Heresy and the Modi , is it good for those or should I get something else? budget is up to 300 -400$ .
Are headphones like these worth buying if i mainly play music mostly from spotify? Are there specific amps you'd recommend with these? Please help i'm a noob.
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u need a headphone tree eeeeej zeos hehe peace love chewwwbaka
GINGER BEER ??!
Sundara demo 2020 demo was taken down :(
Z: I can sell anything.
Headphone company: Let's see you resell the same product.
Z: Hold my ginger beer.
DID YOU NOT LISTEN THEY HAVE MOVED THE SOUND SLIGHTLY TO THE FRONT YOU NEED BOTH NOW 😁. Z for President and I'm not even American
nice
Great review as always!
Fun facts: In Sanskrit, Sundara means beautiful, Deva means God, Ananda means happiness, Arya means honorable and Susvara means melodious.
I just got my 2020 Sundara last week. Im pretty sure a minor difference in pad design and material resulted in the shift in sound you’ve identified. Literally the drivers angle being fractionally different due to the pads being fractionally thinner at the front.
Anyway cheers for the re-review! :)
@@aldarrin They can. I sent my old pads to Resolve to swap to a 2020 revision and they measured and sounded like the old. As long as the pads you get are actually the new ones, the swap will "update" the headphone.
Little update after 5 months of (very) happy owning of these. I'm using them with the Ifi Zen Dac V2. They really benefit from going balanced: the sound gets a little more clear, cohesive, refined. After a bit of use and switching to a balanced cable, they became smooth like a pillow. I can drive them at fairly high volume without getting any harshness, shoutyness or fatigue whatsoever. It's a very relaxed, yet fun and engaging experience. They sound like a charm, loving every note!
Which balanced cable? Wondering if APOS balanced cable is worth it over Peri or Hart
I own Zen2 and still search for a way to use 4.4m port for Sandara which cable did you use?
Been using these with zen dac v1 and zen can stack fully balanced and totally agree. I used the oratory eq as well and these just became God tier.
@@Icemanz666i’ve got the v1 zen dacs and have been thinking about a sub500$ headphone and now im really inclined towards getting these.
Also it’d be a first lets say audiphile move from me. Would You say that the Zen Dac/Sundara combo is a well working one in your experience? Thanks!
@@mozsardaniel9184 I have a zen dac v2 paired with a Sennheiser hd 6xx and balanced 4.4mm cable and am enjoying it a lot.
They fixed the pads on these which compensate for the lack of cup swivel. The spikes in the high end are gone and the low end is extended. They basically fixed all the flaws on the original version. It's an excellent headphone and an excellent value. It also scales very well.
Would you recommend a DAC/AMP with these?
Should get an ifi go link with these, works well, and is really portable!
I purchased the Sundara a few months ago, (first planar magnetic) and they are the gateway to many more to come. I also purchased 2.5 balanced cables and the Qudelix 5K portable amp. Thanks ZEOS!
Sorry I'm commenting on a year old comment but I was curious. How do the sundara's sound with the qudelix 5k amp?
I have that amp, the x2hr's and the Sennheiser hd58x but looking to purchase the sundara's soon.
@@bigdave216 I have the 2020 Sundara and 5k with a balanced cable. They sound really good. Obviously no ANC, but I’ve had the Sony XM5 and Bose QC45 and the Sundara with the 5k sound so much better. 5k Battery doesn’t quite make it through a full workday though. Returned the xM5 and QC45 and use a Soundcore Q30 when I want portable headphones with a long battery life. The Soundcores have the worse sound out of all of them, but they’re pretty good and don’t hurt my ears as the Sony and Bose do - plus I got them for about $60.
@@itshayappenshay6057 thank you! I appreciate that. I wasn't sure if the 5k had enough power to push the sundara. Thank you again
There's no advantage in having a balanced cable if the gear has unbalanced connections. Don't fall for some crap that idiots who think they have golden ears say.
@@quackgarage9551 Yeah - Not sure I notice the difference much with the balanced cable. I was under the impression you got higher output using it. But basically the stock cable was really bad and I went for the balanced one when I replaced it.
There's a subtle visual detail between the two. The OGs have a slightly more transparent grill, whereas the 2020s are more blacked out. This is because the 2020s are actually ever-so-slightly dampened to give them ever-so-slightly smoother and warmer mids. The difference is very small.
I have to move to headphones from speakers for reasons, and what I'm picking up doing my research is that if you're going to be a headphone person, you can go in any direction you like, but you probably need to start with a set of these and a set of HD600s so you have your basic food groups covered, so to speak.
A few months ago, I bought myself a pair for the office, a second pair for the home theater room, and a third pair for my wife. We love them. (We don't love the stock cable, though.)
I've said since I got them that the Sundara sounds more like listening to big speakers not headphones! I have the 2020s
The single best headphone you can get for the price, it beats everything until you get to something like an Ananda or a Focal Elex/Elear. DT1990 and HD660S wish they were this. If you're looking for a fun headphone then like just EQ up the bass on the Sundara or put it on a warm source cause for the price it has the best technical performance.
Ah so ur one of those people. Got it. So things like the Hemps, Zeus, GL2000, neumanns etc aren't nothing just get these thats it.
Correct.
At this price point, these are king.
Will confirm, go sundara if you arent spending $700+. Remember when they were new they were hailed as a great value at $500
@@kevinakelis9685 but those cost like twice more
@@Centrioless well the Zeus are around the same price. However the point I was making is he said that the sundaras are the best up until around the £700 mark. I was just stating some of the, in my opinion clear winners over the sundara. Even if u want reference cans the neumanns are better there too even tho there closed. Dunno the sundara are great however not close to the best I don't think.
Id love to know how the Sandras compare to the hd660s today
Thx for your reviews, i recently bought one of these in belgium and it s definitely a game changer for someone like me who came from a noise cancelling headphone (sony xm3) to one of these with an ifi zen dac v2 (bass boost awesomeness). I learned a lot about headphone thx to you and dms, joshua alour, etc. Push that like button ;)
same here came from xm 3 as well to sundara "game changer" is the right word indeed
That abrupt cut at the end got me.
I just want to put in my two cents regarding the Sundara 2020 version. After watching at least 5 other video reviews and reading user reviews all over the place, I pulled the trigger on these.
I personally think they're not the end all be all headphone. They remind me a lot of my AKG Q701's where they do spectacular in specific genres like rock and metal for the Sundaras, Jazz and Pop for Q701's. They don't exactly have a midrange body like the Etymotic ER4S, but they have some sort of upper midrange hump around 900hz-1khz ish where it adds a bit of thickness which counters the lean nature. However due to the lean midrange, they open up opportunities to hear layers of vocals and instruments. I'm a weeb and like jpop and the likes, the vocalists I listen to tend to extend towards the 2-4khz area and unfortunately they do sound screechy due to the spike somewhere around the 4-6khz area.
The treble is also an issue with vocals, if you pronounce the letter S, you'll notice that there is certain frequency that gets pronounced. With the Sundaras it's not natural, the treble spike is too emphasized on the lower part of the spectrum and comes off as metallic. What surprised me most is that they didn't perform well with EDM/electronic music due to the lower treble spike. Electronic music likes to play around with higher frequencies and it's a shame I didn't like the Sundaras for this genre.
I have no comments when it comes to bass, I'm unfortunately spoiled by my Audeze iSine 20's which perform much better for sub-bass. The Sundara's bass digs deep but they seem to drop off fairly hard below 30hz, they don't particularly emphasize mid-bass. If anything the bass is just right. If you’ve never heard planar bass, the Sundara will amaze you.
These Sundaras are also heavy, I put them on a scale and they weighed 400 grams. Fortunately though the weight distribution on the Sundaras are spectacular. They feel even lighter than a pair of Hyper X Cloud 2’s which go for 330 grams on the scale. This is due to the wide top headband that covers a lot of surface area and the clamping force. These headphones do clamp and IMO they should. The pads are also on the cooler side which is nice despite having the pleather outside. They don’t feel gross when it’s humid in my room like the HD600’s.
For pairing, a warm amp will compliment the Sundara. I have an ODAC/O2 fitted with a Burson V5i opamp that actually mutes the 7khz treble and warms up the lower midrange of the Sundara. On my JDS Atom AMP/DAC, the Sundaras sound flat which is a different type of fun.
The Sundaras upsides is detail retrieval, low volume listening for music, and someone who plays a game called Squad (3500+ hours), these appreciate loud gaming sessions. The Sundaras are not a pair of daily drivers. As someone who owns a pair of Galaxy Buds Plus and Apple Airpods, the Sundaras are the Galaxy Buds Plus, and the Sennheiser HD600’s would be Apple Airpods. The Apple Airpods just work with every genre and shows no flaws. They’re an earbud you put in your ears and they accept every genre despite the lack of sub bass. The Galaxy Buds Plus are technically superior and great for critical listening (phone calls), but, and I know some of you objective readers are going to cringe at this comment; but they don’t have that soul and warmth for general music listening. You might be wondering why I gave this headphone such a critical review. They're not bad, but they're not something I would give an absolute 5/5 to, the HD600 would be a 5/5. The Sundaras offer an amazing experience and the price to performance is just amazing compared to the HD600, but they're not a daily driver.
Edit: Forgot to add soundstage and imaging. Sundaras win hands down best gaming headphone I've tried. It just throws detail out there and combine it with the sharp imaging, the HD600 doesn't even compete especially when it comes to frontal/rear sounds.
I appreciate you mentioning electronic music because no one ever does. That really helped my decision a bit.
@@b__p I honestly think headphones for electronic music can shine. It really depends on the person, and I'm fine if you completely disagree with what I'm about to say.
But I think electronic music needs to have a headphone/IEM that sounds smooth in the highs (but not recessed), the mids need to be sweet and airy to let vocals to shine through, with bass being the platform that provides the oodles of rumble and punch.
So far the Sony 1000XM4's and Sennheiser HD280's have satisfied me in this regard. I've tried about 20 mid-fi headphones and 35 IEM's in my lifetime? I narrowed down my selection over time and I'm completely happy with what I have now.
Dollar for dollar, these are king.
The ‘tree’ is in the manuals if you read em..
why the hell is this guy so entertaining? i could watch for hours .. and have : /
needless to say, subscribed.
"infotainment"
These or HD660s. Cant decide...coming from old HD598
5:00 that's not a cable, it's a hose. Love the cans but I ordered a proper custom cable from Hart Audio Cables.
Hart Audio Cables fucked my order up so many times I don't do business with them anymore. Kept sending me there classic red color instead of the black color I asked for.. three times they messed up.
I know it's expensive.. but I've been rocking a GUCraftsman cable with my Hifiman Ananda for a year now. Love it because it's similar to a thicker IEM braided cable.
sorry to hear that @Dildacorn ...good thing I ordered red 🙂
I got HD650 and Sundara and tested them both. Both are nice headphones and it was a tough call, but I ended up returning the Sundara. I found the HD650 more comfy on my ears and less sweaty for long listening sessions. I also preferred the warm tuning of the Hd650 over the slightly cooler, more analytical sound of the Sundara. There ware a handful of songs with certain effects applied (such as Bon Iver’s “Creeks”) in which I really noticed the Sundara’s superior resolving of detail. But for most music, especially strings and vocals, the HD650 just sounds so lush and beautiful and non-fatiguing. And yeah, the HD650 do have an intimate soundstage, but personally I enjoy that because I’m listening while working at home all day, and I find the intimate soundstage helps me to stay focused.
also you can get the 6xx and the 400se for almost the same money
@@ragecandy i had amazon credit card points so the 650 costed me only $120
How hd650 compares with hd559?
I have the Hifiman Sundara. How do you tell the difference between v2016 and v2020??
Any difference in box??
Sundaras are amazing. On mine I pad swapped them with Dekoni Hybrid Elite Audeze Pads (not Dekoni hifiman pads). You gain more comfortable padding obviously. And wider soundstage, as well as a pleasant increase in the low end, it doesn't change the natural air of the headphone, just improves what's already great about it.
Curious why you got the Dekoni Audeze pads and not the Dekoni Hifiman pads?
@@mikes41720 Maybe he just experimented idk
@@mikes41720 Because they're twice as thick as the hifiman pads, thus the increase in soundstage. and comfort, it has way more padding obviously, and my ears don't touch inside the cup anymore.
@@ONeillsCreationWorkshop thanks for the feedback! Dekoni audio replacement ear pads compatible with Audeze LCD headphones (elite hybrid) for $79.99 on Amazon, right? Just making sure I get the right one. Thanks!
@@mikes41720 Yes, those are the same ones I used, (bought mine on drop for a little less $ tho, still same), but be aware the pad diameter is wider than the Sundara cup, I think it looks cool. and the back of the Audeze pad has a 3M adhesive ring, first I pealed of all the glue very carefully, it was a struggle, so be careful not to rip it or find a solvent to remove the glue but not damage the leather. You will also still need to use the Hifiman Clip ring for the new pads, and put it under the dekoni pad retention ring, then attach. The clamp force will be slightly stronger, I don't even notice it at all now.
If you want to see what the Audeze pads look like on a Sundara go to my Instagram page, link is in my profile.
How do they compare to the HD 660 s? Thanks in advance!
(P.s. Just as an all in one, all day headphone) or what would you recommend?
edit: coming from a guy who used to daily drive a pair of hesh 3's and now uses a base boosted 560s (around and below 75 Hz + 6 dB).
Price should be the same. They switched the material on the pads. I sent an old pair of Sundara pads to Resolve and he swapped them to a 2020 Sundara and they measured and sounded like the old pairs. There should be new versions at most places that sell them assuming they sold enough to get through the old pairs as Hifiman only makes this version now. The sound difference is that the new Sundara have less of a rescission in the transition from upper mids to treble and it comes across as even more natural than the already natural sounding old pair.
After doing reserach about old vs new and so on, I finally got mine for 290 USD. And you know what - I don't care about what version it is anymore - they sound good!
A few people contacted Hifiman directly to know more about the revision and the company told them the 2018 and 2020 models are exactly the same headphone, but every reviewer did find sonic differences between the two models. That is confusing!
Dude your listening room is my fucking dream holy wow. Also the fact that you can find these now just about anywhere for 299 makes these a new gold standard for sub 500 cans.
got them today for 200€, still waiting for my AMP and DAC...
Zeos I love you lmao that ending was gold😂. As a Sundara OG owner (also my first ever audio-file headphone) I literally understood every word of how the sound was moved. I bet the new ones are just as insane as u say they are. Not gonna buy them tho, there’s no need
Zeos, IF you only can have one:
Sundara or Harmonicdying Zeus?
Yeah I have been wondering that too lately... In case I want to upgrade from HD 58X
Harmonicdying hahahaha you got me there!
@@fredflint9153 lol it was scarely unintentional.
@@kam2142 love it dude 🤣😅😂🤣😭
I think he would choose harmonycdyne zeus
Put the lamb skin Dekoni pads on the OG Sundaras and they sound better than the 2020 with their "upgraded" pads. Put the same lambskin Dekonis on the 2020 Sundaras and they sound the same. The only thing they changed is the pads on the 2020s. No other physical changes were made.
Damn! So happy for you comment! Bc that's exactly the set up that I have. OG Sundaras with Dekoni pads and I love the way they sound... Hate listening to Z bc every time I tune in seems like he is putting me off track... Hahaha... Thanks! I'm keeping my set up 😇
@@svldvc Haha, yea dude you're cool with your OGs!
I've been thinking of upgrading to these for MONTHS. I didn't even finish listening to the review: I already placed the order.
What you upgrading from my guy?
Love mine -- you will not be disappointed
@@plainviewdigital5698 Same here😀
🐑🐑🐑
@@westsenkovec sneed
I've had my Sundaras since march. I love them very much!
They changed the front side of the pads to be thinner in shape than the back side. Im getting the Arya v2 today I'm nervous the Sundara 2020 might be all i need. I been on the market for a grado rs2e for a while but i think the sundara 2020 are better after burnin. They sound more natural more cleaner. The same " you are there" sound i loved from the rs2e. The orginal Sundura cable gives the bass a tighter response.
Sundara's are one of my favourite set of headphones
I love these headphones, but I never owned the old versions for a comparison
It’s the 75,000 Hz frequency response.
The sound of a complete madman listening to utter bliss. I just may buy it!
My sundaras are my go to gaming headset.... Lol there amazing for music but they kill in games.
Have you tried the nectar bee headphones! The guy who created the electro static hive x headphones. Sajeev great guy and just received them this week. Loving them so far.
I have a Bee, and was lucky enough to give Sajeev some feedback as he was prototyping them (he's kind of a buddy of mine at this point, after lots of correspondence re: both the Hive and the Bee). They do some incredible things in the lower frequencies... reaching so incredibly low as to give a very visceral, chest-thumping experience, much like listening to a speaker setup with a well-dialed sub. I found that I had to add quite a bit of upper-mids and presence-region frequencies to get a natural sound out of them. But I think for bassheads, they'd be a really outstanding headphone. And for the money, they're a no-brainer! Huge fan of Nectar, I am.
Pad shape still the same as og. New ones just different stitching to avoid them falling apart like some old ones did. The stitching slightly changes the seal. And possibly the inner material is slightly different... Pretty big change in sound for such small change to pads. For the better.
Planning to upgrade from 4XX to Sundaras eventually.
I did that...big improvement in detail and midrange clarity, ie much better vocal presence!
I'm quite excited. I have the Sennheiser HD 579 and HD 700. I - HATE- the cable for the Sennheiser HD 700. I actually had to use the warranty to replace them since they had a disconnect in the left side after some use. The replacement eventually began failing too. The replacement cost for the cable is asinine too - $173, on Sennheisers' website. I bought the Sundara to replace the Sennheiser HD 700 and am waiting for them. As much as I actually loved the HD 700, I had to use a toner to get them where I wanted them. They are vastly superior to the 579 but they are discontinued at this point either way.
rom Hifiman Customer Services….
Hi there,
Thanks for contacting us. We have noticed online that there is chatter of a so-called “Stealth Revision” of the Sundara but I can assure you that it doesn’t exist. No headband changes, no driver changes, no cup changes, nothing. The only change, which we felt so tiny we didn’t mention publicly, was that we changed the glue used on the PaliPads (which are what Sundara uses.) That’s it, the glue on the pads. We did this to enhance the durability of them as we found in warm conditions, they would over time slowly come apart and this new glue is better suited for such environments.
Therefore, you do not need to worry about whether you have the “latest model” as there is only one. Sorry if the rumour mill that can be the internet gave you any concerns about the Sundara and should you have any other questions, do please feel free to email us anytime.
Kind regards.
Jeff"
I ordered the 2020 Sundara and Fiio K5 pro... Let's see how it goes
I have K5 Pro and was thinking of ordering some Sundaras... if you remember, I'd be glad if you just type your impressions in a reply
@@SnafuWarrior I'll try to keep track, but yes shipment is taking too long to get delivered... I wish it reached earlier... The AMP will be taking way more time too...
@@SnafuWarrior hi, hope I'm not too late 😅, the combination is really great!! Its just that the bass is kinda low (the lower frequencies)
@@MordeKaiser29 Thanks a lot! I'm travelling at the end of July to EU, so there I'll be able to test the Sundaras, and make my decision, so it's not too late. I already have Meze 99 classics, which have plenty of bass so the lack of one on Sundaras doesn't worry me that much. Best of luck!
Wow just got my 2020 Sundara today, first video i'm listening with them
"It tastes like the old Yankee Stadium bathroom - it's great!"
I'm so tempted, but I already have the HE4XX, Verum 1 and GL2000. If I buy anything else from Hifiman it will probs be the Arya, sometime in the distant future. But I should really get myself some dynamics, because I only know what planars sound like.
The Verum 1 is really that good as people say? How they compare with both HE4xx and GL2000?
You dont need to do a complete review but i would be very grateful if you say which one do you prefer and why… Im between M1060c, Sundara and Verum 1. Sundara is easier to get but look that it will have less bass than i like. M1060c probably have a lot of bass but a little muddy mid-range (i love vocals). My hope is the Verum 1, seems to be a perfect all-rounder and i can EQ the bass if needed. I just hope that it dont have "veiled" mids, i like smooth vocals but i hate excessive veiled ones xD
BTW if you want Dynamics probably the best option for less than $1000 is the Focal Elex. I had some minutes listening to it and it has a very nice punchy. The problem is that i live on a country where i cant import from DROP and this headphone have too many, and i mean, TOOOOO MANY, QC problems to buy from any other place, especially used. People who buy directly from DROP always get a replacement but i will be screwed if i buy it and get a QC problem.
@@matheusmazzei4077 The Verum 1 are my favourite headphones. I have zmf ori suede pads on them, and they're dark and intimate. They're the ultimate techno cans because the sub-bass timbre is so good. They're also the least fatiguing headphones to listen to, with suede pads on at least. They're the best value by far for sound, but you sacrifice some build quality. You need a low output impedance amp to drive them though, because they're only 8ohm.
The GL2000 are wide and airy, and slightly more detailed than verum. They're better for 70s, 80s, rock, jazz etc, but also some house. They image the best of all 3. They're obviously more capable than verum, more neutral and spacious, but they don't handle sub-bass as well, and have a completely different presentation. They handle upper-bass slightly better than the verum. They're not worth twice as much as verum whatsoever, but you pay for tuning and build quality. I imagine they're closer to sundara in presentation, whereas verum is said to have more of an Audeze sound.
The HE4XX are v-shaped and fun with sparkly highs and lots of impact, but bass extension lacks compared to verum or GL2000. I just got the Harmonicdyne Zeus today, and they're like HE4XX on steroids lol, so much impact.
@@FriedEgg101 thats exciting… The ZMF Ori Suede pads are how much better than the stocks? thanks for the answer! it helped a lot.
@@matheusmazzei4077 They're not better necessarily, the suede just darkens them up a bit, which suits their tuning imo. Ori pads just happen to be the right diameter, and they're thicker than ZMF Eikon pads, and also angled. I think the thickness also helps with the bass. The verum stock pads (at least from the kickstarter) were cheap and nasty; they left black rings on my headphone stand. I think they ship with different pads now. I have some of the verum perforated pads too, but they're too bass-light for my taste. ZMF Ori hit the spot for me. Superluxe HD681B pads also fit the Verum 1, good for a more detailed and neutral sound, but not very comfy.
Thanks for helping me to choose these headphones. Absolutely delighted with them!
Got a pair of these. Instantly started creaking and clicking where the cups meet the headband. Brilliant.
I had bought "best build quality" headphones from sennheiser, they had creaks in the tilting zone. A little bit of silicon grease solved the problem, now 2 years later everything is fine
I've been trying out the HE-X4s from Drop for the past few weeks, and I'd love to hear your opinion on them sometime soon.
How can i differentiate the different versions from the outside package?
filo is coming out with new btr5 and has zeros loved MQA decoding :D
5:48 I kinda wish I did, but my stock cable refuses to work with my sundaras. Other cables work with them, and the cable works on its own but the cable that came with the headphones will not work with them.
Just ordered an open box pair for $239 shipped.
owned these and all i can say is: EQ THEM. put them on harman tuning and (for me) i increased the subbass and bass just a touch. they become bass rumbly because Hifiman drivers.
They become much better AND can slam if the song demands bass slam.
i also own TH610 (swapped pads and attenuation ring) and DT1990 and i always found myself defaulting to these as a daily driver cus of how gentler and relaxing they are. These bois can punch well above their weight honestly
I just saw that there is a Hifiman Sundara Silver Edition 2023 Revision. Will you be reviewing them?
Just bought these based on your review, and now I'm looking for a nice and cheap amp to drive them. Would you choose the Magni 3+ or the Heresy? Or should I look elsewhere?
What's the red and blue cable that he used for the sundara's in this video? I just bought a pair and I don't like the stock cable XD
I bought the linsoul m3x now these headphones from your links in the last month. Good stuff
For an enthusiast who doesnt want to spend 1000+ on a headphone would these be endgame for a music enjoyer?
I know this is off topic but Zeos do you think that there will be a refresh if the adx family. like the ad-700x [which im still mad you havent reviewed] and ad-2000x. i have the 700x and i would like to get the 1000x but if they are making a new series i dont want to get a headphones that almost a decade old.
Mine came in today in just a plain box similar to what Drop uses sometimes for their headphones mostly brown with a little strip that indicated it was Hifiman Sundara and no booklet and a QR scan box with warranty and a serial and if you follow them on Facebook an extra 6 months warranty no booklet though. I can't figure out which version I got. I bought mine from Newegg.
Looking to upgrade from my hd58x any recommendations? I’ve been looking at these, hd600 and AT-r70x
I need a hip Dac or dac amp recommendation for the sundara’s please!
Any opinion between these two Hifiman HE400se (ori) vs Hifiman HE400se Stealth Magnet (Int) version
Great review, thanks for your video. How much power (mW), as minimum, do Sundaras need from amplifiers?
1W x 2 @32 Ohm delivered from SMSL M500 MK3 could be enough?
I love ginger beer btw. What is that mouse on your desk? it is really cool looking.
I believe it's a White Roccat Kova
I got a pair recently and they unfortunately had channel imbalance issues. Hopefully my replacement is better.
Love these cans. I feel they work best with a little added warmth...on the Schiit Asgard 3 they're so good. And if I want some gooey retro vibes I pair them with a Xduoo MT-602 hybrid and sit back and just chill. Highly recommended.
Thanks Z for all the great and (mostly) rational audiophile infotainment. ;-)
Love my 602 hybrid. Excited to try out my second-hand sundaras when they arrive in a couple days.
OG Sundara is one of my best purchases that were recommended by Z
Sundara is basically a Camry in the headphones world. It does everything very good, but nothing outstanding. Great headphones.
Sundara vs K712 Pro vs HD6xx vs DT1990 Pro?!
Is fiio btr5 good for sundara?
Can you do a review on the Audeze maxwells? People are saying they are just as good as these but wireless.
Sundara vs SIVGA P-Ⅱ any final verdict?
Just got my Sundaras. Love them, also came with a little piece of white lint...
My 2020 sundaras have a fucked up left driver that tanks the signal response below around 100hz, leading to a noticable difference in bass response between both sides. QC issues are definitely still present.
are they easy or hard to drive? cos i have read both. can a fiio M11 or btr 7 drive them well? thanks so much
Coming from Audio Technica ad-500x, this is a jaw dropping improvement. Mountains by Hans Zimmer gave me full body tingles and goosebumps at the 2 minute mark.
Don't do this to me, I've got the AD-500X with big pad's and love them. but this comment alone got me curious .
That Hifiman cable could be a bit better and more flexible than the moon audio black dragon cable. Seriously... just a few labeled heat shrink tubes missing.
Have the Sundara from May 2019 AXPONA. Realized the pads are hot and not good for long listening sections. Thanks for to you for the Dekoni Beyer Pad review, as I replaced them with the Dekoni Audio Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin Replacement Ear Pads for HiFiMan HE Series. $80 well spent this year. They had 8' cloth covered cables (from the 400S) as a replacement cable I ordered at the same time.
Hey z.. What brand is the purple cable? U use it often. Looking for a new headphone cable for my sundara. A bit longer as well. Thanks
Z - have you been able to get your hands on the new Sundara Closed Back? Hope to see a review soon...
So you're saying with the new ones you can motorboat the Soundstage. Am I understanding this correctly?
Love all your reviews but something I've been wondering...where do you get your desk mats!?
Limited group buys from websites like Novel Keys!
Didn't they change the shape of the magnets rounding them off or something to change the sound?
Zeos...what do you look like? 😁
"Don't buy the HE1000"..... I bought the HE1000 v2 LOL.... and I love them, they're amazing
I listened to the old Sundara on a hifi show with me Rupert Neve amp. Within seconds I love the sound. It will sound more open on my Musical Fidelity amp.
But I am still buying the Ergo 2 helmet speakers.
Try and review the he6se v2 (the Adorama ones) with the grill taken off. They're amazing
My Sundaras arrive today, really excited to finally try them.
By the way does anyone know what the manufacturer for that desk pad is? It's really cool but I can't find it anywhere.
What do you think about them?
Hi, how is the combination of the sundara with the dragon fly cobalt?
Can I run these with good volume from BTR5 single ended 3.5 mm jack?
yup
would it be worth to get the sundara if I already own the He4xx?
Hi - What is the best AMP / DAV to use for PC gaming?
Hi there , I got the Sundara's and looking for and AMP and DAC to pair them with , many recommended me the the Schiit Magni IE or the Heresy and the Modi , is it good for those or should I get something else? budget is up to 300 -400$ .
Are headphones like these worth buying if i mainly play music mostly from spotify? Are there specific amps you'd recommend with these? Please help i'm a noob.
do you prefer the sound of the sundara or the sendy aiva?