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Hey Alex, my fellow big guy. Do you have advice for powerlifting for guys who also have injuries. I'm in my 30's, decided to lose weight during covid 495lbs to now 265lbs, still a little chubby but have been powerlifting for a little over a year. I herniated my L4/L5 when I was a diesel mechanic and that's why my weight blew up. I've tweaked my back 2 times in the past year lifting but I've made progress without injury for a few months now. I can 5x3 405lb DL and 5x3 455lb squat. PR deadlift is 425 because I'm afraid of hurting my back, but I want to be able to hit 500lbs. Is that possible? I'm a big guy, big boned, wrestler/football in HS. Genetically I think I could do it. But with 2 kids and a full time job I'm scared to push my lift and risk injuring myself and not being able to work. Help me out here brother
@@DadGetsFit Yes. His advice is going to be to take drugs. Take PED's. That's what his advice is gunna be. Its like you didn't even watch the video lol. There is a reason why he himself juices after all.
Steroids have been a game-changer in my fitness routine, providing the extra edge I needed to advance more rapidly. When used with careful planning and consideration for overall health, they can be a powerful tool for anyone serious about reaching their peak potential.
Test Enan is commonly used in hormone replacement therapy to address low testosterone levels, promoting muscle growth and improving overall well-being. Tren, on the other hand, greatly enhances muscle size and strength. Speeds up recovery from injuries as well.
Totally agree. Steroids helped me recover faster and maintain muscle mass, especially during intense training or after injury. It's amazing how they can support bone health as well, which is crucial for people with conditions like osteoporosis.
There’s no doubt to the benefits of steroids. Honestly, it has greatly impacted my life. It played a major role in achieving my desired physique. People should learn not to abuse these substances and act like they are all bad.
Hey everyone, I’m looking for reliable sources for both steroids and protein supplements. I know it’s crucial to be cautious with these, especially with steroids, so I want to make sure I’m getting them from trustworthy sources. For protein supplements, I’m also interested in recommendations for reputable brands. Any suggestions or advice on where to find safe and high quality options?
As a natty is not easy. I got years under the belt. I see kids and old, lifting for one year and have a body of a 3 to 5 year lifting. They look bigger and won't lie better cuts or ripped than me. You can't sustain a 6 abs all year round naturally. No water or food all year round (yeah, right). Only on competition can you do that for a limited time. That is how u can see hoes the fake natty are. And if ur not natty, I understand u want all eyes on you. But don't say ur natty when ur not. Including movie stars with rice and broccoli formula.
Bromley, I don't know if anyone has told you this yet, but whatever you're doing these days to take care of yourself is really working. You're looking sharper than ever and you can even see it down to how you're animating lately. I hope you're feeling as good as you look!
Yep. Even Dr. Mike, who bases his brand on being a good source of objective fitness information based on the current body of scientific data, is on roids and seems to minimize their effect on him every chance he gets. I think probably the only time he got real was when he announced his retirement from bodybuilding and why he was doing it.
This video feels like a culmination of your decades of experience as a coach, athlete and astute observer of the industry. So many excellent points, so well articulated and to the point. I'm glad you exist man!
Thank god people are talking realistically and honestly about this stuff now. I hope a lot more lifters can make informed decisions (either way) than we did in the 1980s.
@Mark Park The only cost is your time to get a proper education in endocrinology then you have nothing to lose but your ballz and a lot of money for regular check out at dr
Those women also train consistently though to be fair. Most likely a lot more consitently and for a lot longer. Can't really compare female pros to dudes who have been working out for a couple years. It's not like the female pros are as big as the male pros.
@@onZampie Take a woman who has trained for 4 years and a man who trained for 2. The man will still be considerably stronger and have far more muscle mass than the woman who has trained longer. Steroids completely change that. Combined with the fact that roids tend to be more potent for women, the female in this scenario has the potential to be just as strong and have a more muscular frame than the man within a year if she was juicing and he wasn't. The bone density changes, the muscle mass increase, the muscle fiber hardening, etc that steroids give are underestimated pretty heavily.
Even when it comes to men, Kumail Nanjiani was a 40-something wet noodle who became swole and shredded in months. It's not just about the end result but also the starting point and age.
Really good video. I’ve been training for 44 years. I grew up under Muscle and Fitness, Joe Weider and Arnold/Zane etc.. I didn’t know that 30 sets per body part was bs. I do now. Experience is beyond important. So many younger lifters think because they have been working out for six months and watched a few videos that they are experts. Nobody has all the answers, and training is nuanced (even if we wish it wasn’t) With that said. For those who are natural, consider the following. 1. Have a plan that is based on sound principles. 2. Get educated. I love the 6-30 reps for hypertrophy idea. While I don’t know exactly the numbers, common sense tells that 30 reps is a ton of time w/o fatigue. 3. Eat well. No matter your goals, food matters. 4. Recovery enough. The idea isn’t to train so hard, so often that you’re constantly fatigued. Rather it’s a balance. 5. Stick with movements that promote growth. A squat - deadlift - row - press - hinge work. They always have and always will. 6. Go slow, train long. While I can’t say I’ve never gotten injured, most of my career I’ve learned that slow progressions work. 7. Lastly, ask for help. Avoid the “I know everything” mantra. Now, ask questions.
How important is protein in a diet? I understand it’s very important, but what’s your intake/day? Gram/pound ratio, I’m asking. I’m 220lbs, and 220 grams of protein @ about 16% bodyfat seems like an absurd amount of protein to continue to gain muscle tissue.
@@seanhokanson4115 obviiisly since you’re training you need protein to help the recovery process and to build muscle. There are general guidelines of 3/4 to a gram per pound of body weight. I think that while that may seem like a lot, it’s all part of your overall calorie consumption. I’d definitely spread it out over the course of a day. If you had 5-6 meals a day and snacks it isn’t as daunting. Stick with quality as well. Chicken - eggs - lean meats - a quality protein supplement if you need it. Finally, if you’re a little short, that won’t make a huge difference.
@@chattingwithshap8010 220 grams of protein spread over 6 meals would still be 36,6 grams per meal. Every day. These high numbers are indeed absurd and not sustainable for average people.
@@nothingEvil101 you’re right. But the person asking isn’t average and I didn’t say it needs to be 220. I said 3/4 to 1 gram. He is 220 and 16 percent body fat. That’s not even close to average. I didn’t want to write a super lengthy response. Getting enough protein is important for muscle growth and recovery, but it’s more of an Art than anything else. On those training days, especially harder ones it’s more necessary than on a day off or a recovery day or week. Plus, at 220 pounds getting 150 or so grams or so on certain days would be totally fine. Most people, even those who are intermediate lifters, and even some as advanced ones vary their calorie consumption regularly. But again, it’s important to see each person as unique, not cookie cutter.
Anecdotal: friend of mine (36 y/o) hopped on 200mg of test a week. Says the difference is huge, squat went 40-ish kg in a couple of months. He admits to training waaaay less hard. Since I heared that, I'm not buying any 'but we actually need to train HARDER' messages by the juiced community
I’ve been on trt (120mg) for 5 years, my squat has only gone up 68 kg. Your buddy is using a Supraphysiological amount and clearly an outlier unless he was squatting under 4/500 lbs.
@@jrwitherite12 to be fair, he was a little below 400. Same time: his bloodwork showed the levels of a twelve year old, so I understand his decision. His wife says he's much nicer to be around, so that's a W as well
Excellent! Thank you for shedding light on natty vs. not natty. I started weight training at 13. I’m 45 now and continue to learn, especially from your channel. Ive been natty my whole life. In my early to mid 30’s I was my strongest squatting 300x10 and benching 285 for a 1RM. Personally, I’ve trained all of the rep ranges through a 12-week periodization program. I’ve typically only have trained my body parts once a week. I think I’ll try training them twice a week with a little lower intensity and see if I can get back up to my old numbers, although, I don’t have much hope. I think the greatest takeaway is that there’s no magic program due to our bodies always trying to adapt.
Personal anecdote: trained from 20-25. Went from 135 to 190 10-15% body fat. Best numbers were 315 bench, 425 squat, 505 deadlift, 225 overhead press. At 35, went on trt. Total test at 800. 315 total before trt. After one year went from 185 to 205 lbs. Bench 385, squat 485, deadlift 575, overhead press 265, strict curl 135. Fat went from 18% to 10%. This is just trt in normal range. The stuff works. Edited: total, not free test levels. 800 free would be nuts
Damn, 35 and taking TRT? I'm 39 and not taking trt. I'm squatting 425lb, deadlift 500lb, bench 325. But I been almost nonstop exercising since the military.
A huge POINT to remember and understand this is that this 10-15 percent in strenght gain is when lifters stay in the same weight class if the gain muscle the Steroid related strenght gainn effect can be much higher.
Yeah, in reality it's more like you'll double your numbers quite literally if you're pushing natural vs enhanced. The most major component of steroids and the like is the increased lean mass your body will grow and is able to sustain, which leads to immense increase both in strength and in size as well.
Doubling your numbers is not accurate. However, your 10-15% statistic is. I used to compete at the international level and one of the russian coaches told me that he estimated about 15% strength increase from PEDs. That never left me because at that level, I was getting beat by about 10% and I was natty. I think the larger point is the recovery, the volume some of those guys can handle is insane and volume is the biggest driver of progress. You can still get stronger on PEDs with less work, but when you actually do more work, the results are astounding.
@@sandrost4243 So you mean to say that PED's will only increase your lift from say, 300 kilo deadlift to a 330 kilo deadlift? How do you think Hafthor deadlifsts 501 kilograms? I already explained, you can quite literally double your numbers from using PED's versus staying natural, because of the extra lean mass your body can hold when using PED's, which is really what makes the difference and allows top level strength athletes to perform superhuman feats of strength. PED's when in the same weight class probably doesn't make that much of a difference, however the point I make is, the true strength of these PED's is how it allows you to surpass the limits of what a human body is naturally able to do massively by increasing the lean mass which can be supported by your body due to the increased testosterone levels and also the growth hormone which allows muscles to grow far larger than they otherwise could. When you remain in the same weight class, you basically only use the PED's to 10% of their effect at best. What really makes the difference is how it allows people to become 180 kilograms while only at 10-15% body fat, carrying more than 150 kilograms of lean mass, which is absolutely ludicrous.
@@luka188 Okay I must have misunderstood your point, you are also including increased mass, i.e., putting on weight. I was indeed talking about staying in the same weight class and I was also talking about highly trained individuals, 15% is very accurate. But yes, if someone puts on 40 pounds of muscle, you could double your lifts. Apologies for misunderstanding you.
I was wondering when we were going to hear from a real authority on the effectiveness of anabolics! As a non-serious lifter who has never used PEDs, I'm also interested to hear your take on the 'human genetic limit' that you're 4 standard deviations away from.
@@AlexanderBromley And blasting gear for 20 years doesn't make you an authority on the subject. Especially when you still look like a dyel manlet. That would be the equivalent of a heroin addict thinking he's an expert on chemistry. Please stop pretending like you aren't completely biased on this subject
This was an excellent video Bromley! Very detailed and well argued on all fronts. The prominence of drug use in gym culture you presented here is quite eye-opening , and really puts much of our current culture into context.
To answer your question at the end, a recent change that has worked well for me in terms of "shocking" myself out of plateaus in both size and strength is doing 6-8 week cycles of 5x20 on front squat, incline bench, RDL and OHP on their respective days, keeping the weight just light enough for about 1-2 RIR. I need a diaper change at the end of each workout. Let's just say that watching you squat 185x50 in a previous video not just how absurdly strong you are, Bromley, but also how mentally resilient you are.
I stalled on Madcows 5x5 with only a 245 bench. One day I said screw this stupid math crap and just started working hard. In just 6 weeks I added 40lbs to my bench. I benched hard, heavy and frequently. It makes sense a lot of these programs were written by enhanced lifters because I didn’t make gains for shit on these “intermediate programs”.
I’ve never liked the idea of a 5x5 unless it’s for squat or deadlift. And with deadlifts I still prefer warming up and doing 3x3’s because deads are taxing. When I squat 5x5’s I usually lower the weight after my first set and continually lower it by small increments. Math crap will never get you stronger really. You have to use math crap to determine what kind of hard work you’re able to do. That means recording your lifts and tracking your strength.
I kinda like to warm up to a set of 3 reps for squat or deadlift, then do sets of hopefully 5 around a weight I should be able to do for 5 in my head and track my lifts for that day.
Lol based on all of the people you didn't poll? Either way, you have no idea what someone can look like without drugs. There are tribe members in sub Saharan Africa who wouldnt pass a natty or not. You all are guessing (poorly) and, in the face of no real information, the gaps get filled with insecurity and ego.
@@AlexanderBromley No clue where the poll was done, but certainly doesn't express my views. Of course you need to workout to gain muscles, but it's ridiculous to think that those gains can be gained naturally, especially in as short time frame. "There are tribe members in sub Saharan Africa who wouldnt pass a natty or not. " Name one, Whenever I look at "tribe members" in actual natural environment they all look like bunch of skinny fat people.
I respect Bromley but this vid felt like cope to me, I have seen individuals in various gym who dont know shit, do shitty half reps for about and hour (some of them having more than 50 years old) and casually leaves the gym being the most freaky jacked dude and I have to beleive that was just 15% drug enhancement and otherwise they would still rock 85% of that WITH JUST ONE EFFING HOUR OF EFFING SHITTY TRAINING. I'm seriously trying not to rant but io cant shake the feeling of being treated as a stupid here.
It is cope. They can definitely make more of a difference than 10%. And most of the "evidence" he had to back up his claim were personal anecdotes or opinions. As for his own personal experience with how much they affected his lifts, there were many factors involved, not just PED's. And even then, he did not mention what types of PED's taken, or in what dosages.
Thank you for being the voice of reason on these topics. So few people are honest about this while still bring reasonable about the huge progression natural lifters can have.
I'm 39 and I exercise (not always consistently, have had up to 3 months off sometimes) since 15. Even before that I loved to do push-ups, pull-ups and other bodyweight exercises. I've also got into running sometimes, once I ran half marathon (by myself in the night). I have had about 3-4 cycles on steroids, all low doses, in my life. One of the bad sides of that might be, that I think my natural testosterone levels could have been higher now, should I have never used those (haven't really got bloodwork done, but my sex drive isn't at all what it once was). With that said, low levels of steroids have given me a lot of strength. On my 1st cycle, I was 19, exercising for 4 years already, and I had a plateau on the bench press, wouldn't move up from 105 kg for the last 3 months. Then I did a cycle on flat dose of 5 mg dbol per day, for 40 days. I was taking it every day with my breakfast. On the 40th day exactly my bench press increased to 135 kg. +30 kg in 40 days, I was shocked. 3 months later, without taking anything, my bench was still 135 kg, didn't lose any of that. In the light of my experience, I find it hard to believe, than anyone lifting heavy numbers can do that without PEDs. Even with the best genetics in the world, I don't see it possible to do more than 250 kg bench or over 350 squat or deadlift (or >150 kg overhead press). Even those numbers sound too high, except if you're not somehow >190 cm >170 kg monster natural freak...
Been natural through my whole journey. 220 lb weight loss from almost 400 to 150 and now I am up around 183. Been about 4 years and I’ve noticed what you have said is very true. Plateaus come very frequent and now with your information I am going to train a bit differently. You’ve earned yourself a sub for being a true fitness connoisseurs, thank you buddy ❤
@@dreamdiction well I basically went from drinking almost a 12 pack of Mountain Dew per day, as well as eating absolutely horribly. The end of 2018 I was like 400. I am assuming I was I taking just from that an absolutely incredible amount I don’t even know but it was bad. I then started my weight loss journey with 0 knowledge which was a stupid mistake. I barely ate anything and completely stayed away from any kind of sugar or carbs completely because of the things I read in the internet and it really worked. I was around 250 at this point and I still did not workout at all and I lost all that within a few months because I was literally eating like nothing. I went down to around 200 and I started feeling like shit completely, and at this point we are at the 6-8 month range. I at this point developed body dysmorphia and I think an eating disorder because of the fact that food in my mind was the devil so I ate just enough to get by. Hitting around the 1 year mark I was at 152 lbs and I felt HORRIBLE! I then decided that now was the time to start working out and eating food again since I knew that I had run out of energy completely and I looked like I had no muscle but fat still so it was horrible to even look in a mirror. So for the first year of working out I watched some but not a ton of videos and did mostly reading and watching people with no guidance so my beginning was very skewed. I got muscle but could not gain weight for anything and I ended up hitting a plateau from my newbie gains. I then in my second year did a lot more research and found people like daddy Noel and Sean N and then started to realize the benefits of eating and being okay with myself and trusting the process. I recommend to anyone starting the journey that I took to use your weight to your advantage and train hard, study hard and do it the right way because if I had I would’ve been an absolute friggen unit by now haha. Anyways here we are in 2023 and today I have been trying to main gain and I am sitting at 185 lean muscle. I will continue to workout for the rest of my life and I will take myself to the absolute limit naturally. I appreciate all who read this whole thing as I am a living example of the downside of self image and remember you can do ANYThING you set your mind too. I love every one of the kings out there looking out for himself, maybe I will start a channel just to talk with people about there journey and men’s positive mental health. Have a great day everyone and much love ❤️
@@landonconverse7995 Thanks, all I would add to what you have said is that muscle only re-grows while you are asleep so getting a full eight hours of good quality deep sleep every night is ideal for building muscle.
A lot of good info and perspective here. For me, through the past 20 years Ive found not training to failure, and rather training around RPE 7 for both size and strength is far far more effective. I personally cannot agree that natural lifters should train their sets to failure... whereas I believe enhanced, you can and should train to failure occassionally. If and when I go off the natty train, will be interesting to see how my training can change and be effective for gains
Yes they are, you can literally get almost twice as strong, and twice as big with them, as if training natural. In most sports, you have no chance to reach top level in pro competition, without doping, that's just facts.
Literally almost twice as strong.... why are you making up numbers and acting like you have experience? There's a whole spot in the video comparing natty and geared records, including my numbers before and after. 800lb pullers wouldn't be stuck at 400 without gear. Steroids could not exist and you still need 1 in 1000 genetics to hang at the top. Blast all the gear you want, you ain't touching their heels.
@@AlexanderBromley Look at Pictures, and compare body composition, weight etc of top guys of their Sport, like Hafthor and many others, he became literally almost twice what he was pre roids, and a complete different human, like many others, it's just night and day. There's few people who bench 150+ kg natty, and theres few people who bench 300+ on gear. You will find more guys deadlifting 200+ natural, than 400+ on gear, yes, and I said "almost", and that's simply true, roids are THE GAMECHANGER and THE MOST CRUCIAL FACTOR and make worlds of difference in performance, strength, muscle building. Has nothing to do with that some tards don't know how to use gear properly, or don't know how to train and eat properly, or that some have a poor foundation. You will never be Mr Olympia or Worlds strongest man, or even be remotely close or in the same sphere without roids, you won't even win a "natural bodybuilding" competition without roids, that's just reality.
Solid video. Glad you mentioned how strength training can aide in hypertrophy. I decided to give a pyramid set a try and found that It boosted my 12 rep max on OHP from 20kg to 25kg after months of stagnation. Overall I think that the take away here is that natty's should train smarter AND harder.
When I talked to one of Boris Sheiko's assistant coaches many years back, he said the Russians quantified the benefit of lifters using PEDs vs those who do not (for highly trained athletes). They arrived at a figure that was approximately 15%. That's 15% on your total if you are highly trained natty vs. on gear. If you total 1500 pounds natural, you'll be ballpark 1725 with gear. Anecdotally, from my experience (20+ competitive), this seems pretty accurate. It's the difference from an Elite powerlifter to an international elite or world ranked lifter.
If steroids dont give you a massive boost and help you push further than natural limits, why would you take them. They are a game changer,. Bodybuilders/ strongmen ect wouldnt take them otherwise
Survivorship bias. You are looking at the outliers who get massive gains and ignore the thousands of nobodies in commercial gyms who blend into the crowds... Most people on roids are under 200 pounds, you wouldn't even look twice.
@@amazin7006 yes some dont respond to it. But my point still stands. Just cos it dosnt work for some dosent change the fact that its a game changing drug. Theres a reason we call them enhanced. So if steroids dont turn you into a beast (if you respond to it cos for some reason i have to specify that cos you are all idiots) then why would body builders use them.
@@Ojthemighty Who the fuck said they don't make you bigger? You are responding to a comment nobody ever made in this entire video. Go rewatch from 10:50 and try again
My best gains are when I accidentally planned 2-3 times per week per body part. I had a “bro split” I made 6 day split where the focus of each day was something like this: Quads, chest, arms, hammies and glutes, shoulders, back. I didn’t realize why, but my triceps, back, biceps, and glutes were huge. Everything else struggled. Well, those were the body parts that saw 2-3x per week of training. Everything else was only hit once a week. 😂 100% natural btw, never had a chance to try it or I might have in the past.
I did a split similar but 3 on, one off. Chest, quads, back, rest, triceps, snatch grip deadlifts/post chain, biceps, rest repeat. Triceps day consisted of heavy cg floor presses or cg bench so chest was hit as well. Bicep day always started off with dead hang chins so my upper back got hit then I did the basic curl stuff. I sprinkled in lateral variations on chest day and tricep days and rear delts on upper back and bicep days. Might go back to that once it gets hot as I train in garage. Quick sessions. Bulgarians or lunges after my snatch grip DL variation so quads got hit as well. Leg curls before squats on quad day. Chest day is always an incline, flat variation and end with v bar dips so triceps get hit. Upper back always starts with dead hang neutral chins then supported rows, if up to it maybe some empty bar poundstone curls for xtra bicep work. Loaded carries occasionally at the end of squat or deadlift day for the yoke. Natty as well at 45
I have been riding on the gains of a 3x week Full Body approach for a while now (really enjoy the meals I need before the resulting 2hr workout to properly carbload too :D.) I love how I can modulate the body part or part thereof focus by playing with order, repetition and rep range. Hurray.
You just disprove this video. No roided powerlifter or Bodybuilder trains like that. They split everything up. Bro split or PPL typically. Or some variation. Most people that do fullbody are straight up natty and have jobs. Unlike these clowns online. This is just more justification for roiders ruining lifting
Bro I do this. Chest tris and shoulders 3 days, back and biceps on the other 3. Legs on back day. I do too much volume for core I used to do core but simply don’t have time anymore.
I have no issue at all with people using. It’s when they try and fool People with “I am all natural” They still are insanely dedicated and it takes a huge amount of work. Just don’t try and say it’s natural. I hate that
If they want to lie and live in a fool’s paradise that’s fine too. But if they want to take peoples money and promise the same results as natty yeah then it’s straight up fraud
People keep on ignoring the fact the people who take steroids can skip all the hard years of hitting and breaking through plateaus that naturals have to go through. They can basically sprint to their natural limit within a period of a year or two. Considering the vast majority of natural lifters will never hit their genetic potential this is the largest benefit of steroids for the average user.
@AlexanderBromley basically yes but no I would argue that a noob that takes gear with a good training and diat would look pretty good in a year but not better than what he would achieve by 3 years of natural good training I just experience it by two brothers the one natural for 5 year and his bro that got him in less than 2 years on gear
Around 1-in 10 Gym members here in the UK use Peds... From my personal experience my old Gym friends who took them no longer train due to health issues (from Peds) while I'm still training(drug free)... It's sad to see them now...
LMAO Ronnie was on steroids before he got super big when he went on GH and Insulin AS WELL as steroids in an interview he said "i was on skittles but not THOSE skittles".
People who take significant amounts of steroids to look good, their outside bodies might seem muscular and fit but that does not equate to health, health is mainly determined by how well your organs are functioning and the balancing of your blood chemicals. What heavy steroid users do is sacrifice the health of their organs for the aesthetics of their physique.
The difference between tested and untested is immense for powerlifting. I refuse to go to drug tested meets anymore, went to one and almost fell asleep during the bench press.
I have been a novice bb for years. I recently started oly lifts and focusing on strength and speed. I’m 40 tho and your “ big dreams and bad genes” comment explains my entire life. Love it!
Awesome video sir, you really narrowed down the science of P.E.D. usage and natural lifting to a T. I'm going to implement these suggested training ideas to my splits. 11/10🏆
If these drugs are so ineffective, why would anyone take them? It seems illogical that people risk their health for such a small effect. if you take this and apply it to a sport like Olympic weightlifting, you might notice that someone like Ilya was able to snatch 190, but after he tested positive, he only snatched 160. That’s a very significant difference. So I question the methodology being used when people claim that steroids have a small effect.
Dr. Mike's take on Greg Nuckols' research is actually a little off. He is comparing, for example, the strength of a 100KG natty lifter to that of a 100KG enhanced lifter and noting the difference between the two is somewhere around 10%. Now, that is not telling us what will happen to the strength levels of that 100KG natty guy after that guy himself goes on gear. PEDs not only help in adding mass and strength, they also help in the reduction of body fat. In other words, that 100KG natty guy could stay at 100KG with significant added strength and size. I would guess that he would make a lot more than ten percent gains.
How is it still hard work when you are on gear? I mean compare two dads, one on normal TRT for his age and one is not. You know one of them is walking in feeling like 25 again. - You need less gym days - Less work during the workouts - You have more energy while doing the workouts both mentally and more glycogen in the muscle "It's just hard work" Gymbro who forgot what fatigue feels like after his cycle became more like a straight line.
Because, if you're doing it right, you're taking advantage of the elevated MRV to do more work than you could have otherwise. I'm not speaking for the typical corporate gym tool who just wants to get beach ready. Competitors, those who want to win, absolutely abuse their bodies. You said it, more energy and more glycogen; that means you have the capacity to red-line it farther, even when you're in the shittiest part of your powerlifting prep or a depleted bodybuilder who is peaking for a show on 1200 calories a day.
I never used peds but it’s pretty cool what people can accomplish when they throw health on the backburner. I kinda look at the enhanced like stuntmen. I ain’t willing to but I wanna see it.
Strength day (legs) Technique day (full body) Power day (torso, either horizontal, or vertical, never both) Power day (legs, sometimes overhead included) Technique day (full body) Strength day (torso, again same plane) Rest (Saturday) It works for me. I basically am training the shoulder girdle and lower body daily either directly or inadvertently, esp since I picked up clubbells, my shoulders have never been happier being mobilized, even strengthened, daily. I train in waves like a restart week, a builder week, another builder week, a peak week, and grounding week, and then a deload week before I "restart,
Statement: "Tested powerlifters in the US don't cheat." Source: "Trust me bro, you can smell it in the air bro, please bro, they told me they are clean bro!"
Americans always first to claim natty, hold all the records in powerlifting then complain about competing Vs countries without testing in the IPF, really gets the noggin joggin doesn't it..
@@SUPER8ALTERN8 It's literally just cold war era propaganda. US at the time was trying to besmirch the soviet union as much as possible, so they convinced the public that americans are proud and noble and natty whilst the dirty soviets were all drug cheats.
All through my 20's I was an overtrain-and-crash natty lifter, because I did try to go to the gym super frequently and push myself hard and tried some dumb stuff. There were some results, but I've been able to dial that stuff back in the past few years and go down the route of calisthenics, bands work, cycling. I'm probably undertraining now - I might be hitting something like 1.5 times a week, with a lot of "just do a little warmup" sessions and then one bigger one - but it's in a relatively healthy place, where I'm not pummeling myself with fatigue and I can focus on other parts of life.
Great editing. Feels like a documentary. Reminds me of the ZT MPMD team up & Josh Brett Videos. The memes were fun too. I appreciated the audio clip from The Office
I would totally believe that being enhanced with just test base would give you a 10-20% strength and size increase. But ain't many just running that these days - we got designer stuff now that implodes strength with very little mass increase you can take in addition to just the test.
The 15% strength increases is at a given weight. Obviously the main benefit is weight gain and gaining muscle will massively increase you strength in the long run. I'm like 3x stronger now lol. But the 15% is if I was the exact same size (after a much longer training period as a natty) then my enhanced body would still be 15% stronger with identical muscle mass
It comes down to strenght of mind of a person competing ! I done sports for the first 30 years of my life, ( swimming and kayaking ) and I rather lose and know that Iam clean rahter than win by cheating.
I feel like being natural is the most important part of my fitness journey. I mainly train to push my limits and see what my body can achieve just by eating and training. Plus being healthy is a really big bonus, so it's a win win situation :)
I wrestled when i was young and have always worked out well. I have struggled to bulk my entire life, for me its a struggle to eat enough. I have been tempted to go on a cycle many times, but always remember why I started in the first place, it was never about getting big to me, it was about bringing out the best im capable of. I dont mind steroid use as long as you’re honest about it, but im looking to test and craft the body i was born with, and have learned to accept i wont ever be able to hit 200 lbs (my original goal weight). Im happy fluctuating between 170-180 while staying lean, and i was the scrawny guy competing at 133 when i was 16. Embrace what feels healthy
Maik Wiedenbach was an Olympic swimmer for Germany. He has some stories about dealers, when the wall came down, going from shoe boxes of D-bol to rooms filled with boxes of D-bol, T-bol, Test & others. There was so much that they couldn't possibly sell it ("I'll give you 50 instead of 10, for the same price, and I'll throw in 200 T-bols for nothing!"). Later, he was a bodybuilder & "fitness model", so he sure knows his PEDs. Even he says that "strength training has gone from a training culture to a drug culture".
This video was 10/10, Bromley. I watched it all the way through a few times because there’s just so much top notch information in here that cuts through all the BS. Thanks for all you do and keep ‘em coming, sir!
Great video even a year later, really got me thinking about ways i could improve my training and also gave me a way better understanding of gear. Im getting towards the 2 year mark of my lifitng journey now so i think its time for me to try different methods of progressive overload and programming to break some of my plateuing muscle groups and work on some of my weakpoints. Cheers for another banger vid.
I started full body workout cycle with three days a week with every workout have the big three started to brine out and changed it to two days a week and so far it’s been working better the strength I started out with has improved and I keep getting stronger
awesome vid. i clicked on it because i work in substance use and we have clients that use PEDs and although I have done a little powerlifting myself I didn't really know anything about them. this covered a lot, thankyou.
My only problem with steroids, is that users give advice for lifting that won't necessarily apply to natty lifters. On the juice you can go to the gym and go hard everyday. You can't do that natty, you will be injured going everyday doing 100s of reps.
Wish I saw content like this earlier on. I realize alot of advice on the internet is geared toward enhanced training. A huge thing I've learned that took my training to the next level is learning that 10-20 sets, got to hit a body part 2 times or more a week to grow, and hypertrophic ranges are relative. Once I understood this, I started training full body hard training 3 days a week. Did less work and got more gains. Since then I just progressively overload from there.
*on the internet* Gear using friend: you don't have to tell us you're natty, we can tell Me: cope harder committing felonies to be slightly above average at a hobby *IRL* Gear using friend: dude that's cool that you decided to stay natty, you're strong af Me: I'm just trying to be big and strong like you fam
Othe best video a natural could ask for, never seen something so dense packed with good information for natural lifters. Without this really takes sometime to aquire information not even mentioning the time it takes a to filter them all
Discovered you a couple of weeks ago and you have become my favourite lifting channel. Impartial, evidence based approach, explained intelligently in an engaging way with clarity. Thank you for all you do.
Im 35, I was natty going on about 2 years, didn't see much gains nor a lot of strength buildup (and this was going to the gym 4 to 5 times a week). Decided to jump into small dosages of test and an estrogen blocker, and I have to say, my pumps jumped up like no other. It was like the missing piece to a puzzle. Not encouraging supplement use, but I'm pretty sure it wayy easier for younger people to stay natty.
@@HerbanMagi Go to T test and if you score low then you will get permission to legally buy it. IF you have normal or higher than normal T... Well... You can always go to weightloss journey to artificially drop your T levels to the bottom.
I love steroids. I started using in my 20's. Now @ 43 I do trt, (not through a doc),. My wife loves steroids too. She loves the fact I have the sex drive of an 18 year old at 43. I plan on being "on" the rest of my life. Whether you choose to train natural or use PED's genetics still play a role. To each his or her own
@nukesploder you mean guys like yourself that call juicers "beta males" because you're natty and too scared to go on gear so in order to feel good about yourself you put steroid users down
The natty or not discourse is exhausting and in most cases pointless. My rule of thumb is if someone is trying to sell you something and using their physique as marketing, just assume they are using PEDs. Good lifting advice is like good science, repeated by multiple reputable sources, independently verifiable and doesn't claim to be generalizable to every case.
The thing that sticks out to me the most in the online community is that people have super low expectations of natty physiques and anyone who achieves a high level automatically gets accusations.
I think its a reaction the over prevalence of fake nattys, We've gone too far now and think that any high level physique is not naturally obtainable when the truth is that that the top 0.1 percent can achieve that 28 FFMI, what I look for in determining who is fake or not has to do with timescale, an ELITE natural takes decades to reach that point when you have young lifters reaching 28FFMi in 4 years by the time they are 21 its extremely unlikely they are lifetime natty, but freaks DO exist.
I thought I had bad genetics and I just worked really really hard until I uploaded my dna to genome link. Turns out in every metric my genetics are amazing and I just didn’t eat enough for the first two years of my training lol
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Make a tier list vid
I want the thumbnail
Hey Alex, my fellow big guy.
Do you have advice for powerlifting for guys who also have injuries. I'm in my 30's, decided to lose weight during covid 495lbs to now 265lbs, still a little chubby but have been powerlifting for a little over a year.
I herniated my L4/L5 when I was a diesel mechanic and that's why my weight blew up.
I've tweaked my back 2 times in the past year lifting but I've made progress without injury for a few months now. I can 5x3 405lb DL and 5x3 455lb squat.
PR deadlift is 425 because I'm afraid of hurting my back, but I want to be able to hit 500lbs.
Is that possible? I'm a big guy, big boned, wrestler/football in HS. Genetically I think I could do it.
But with 2 kids and a full time job I'm scared to push my lift and risk injuring myself and not being able to work.
Help me out here brother
@@DadGetsFit Yes. His advice is going to be to take drugs. Take PED's. That's what his advice is gunna be. Its like you didn't even watch the video lol. There is a reason why he himself juices after all.
STEROID USERS are WEAK FAKES!
Stay natural buddy!
"You'll lift nothing, and be happy."
True dystopian nightmare
Liftopian
@@drinkinouttacups2665 Rightwing deadlift squad?
Eat insects for protein crew
Drink the bug shake, live in the bod pod
@@BuJammy LOL.
"If you have big dreams and bad genes, you're in the right place..."
This resonated with me. Subscribed.
That was clever
''...non-lifting globalists'' 1:39
is deep too.
Most people don't have bad genes they just lift for a few months or years and never tap anything close to their potential
I have big Dreams and good genes is it good ?
@@peamutbubbertrue, most people don’t have the dedication to stick with working out for over a year or two.. most don’t even make it 6 months
I remember being 13 and believing when Ronnie Coleman said he was natural because he worked hard and seemed honest
Ouch
Probably believed in Santa too huh
easy to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled.
@@Cosmicmorales 70% of 100% of the time that makes no sense
@@nolesy34the meaning behind the statement is super basic? Ur the one who's overcomplicating it and can't understand.
@@Cosmicmorales of course its an easy statement.. but fools rush in, so if i rushed in to understand, better the devil i would know
Steroids have been a game-changer in my fitness routine, providing the extra edge I needed to advance more rapidly. When used with careful planning and consideration for overall health, they can be a powerful tool for anyone serious about reaching their peak potential.
Test Enan is commonly used in hormone replacement therapy to address low testosterone levels, promoting muscle growth and improving overall well-being. Tren, on the other hand, greatly enhances muscle size and strength. Speeds up recovery from injuries as well.
Totally agree. Steroids helped me recover faster and maintain muscle mass, especially during intense training or after injury. It's amazing how they can support bone health as well, which is crucial for people with conditions like osteoporosis.
There’s no doubt to the benefits of steroids. Honestly, it has greatly impacted my life. It played a major role in achieving my desired physique. People should learn not to abuse these substances and act like they are all bad.
Hey everyone, I’m looking for reliable sources for both steroids and protein supplements. I know it’s crucial to be cautious with these, especially with steroids, so I want to make sure I’m getting them from trustworthy sources. For protein supplements, I’m also interested in recommendations for reputable brands. Any suggestions or advice on where to find safe and high quality options?
Jeremyproteins is the person you want. He's the most knowledgeable about muscle-building supplements that I know.
Stay natty bros
Hell no lol
lmao
Nope
💯
As a natty is not easy. I got years under the belt. I see kids and old, lifting for one year and have a body of a 3 to 5 year lifting. They look bigger and won't lie better cuts or ripped than me. You can't sustain a 6 abs all year round naturally. No water or food all year round (yeah, right). Only on competition can you do that for a limited time. That is how u can see hoes the fake natty are. And if ur not natty, I understand u want all eyes on you. But don't say ur natty when ur not. Including movie stars with rice and broccoli formula.
Bromley, I don't know if anyone has told you this yet, but whatever you're doing these days to take care of yourself is really working. You're looking sharper than ever and you can even see it down to how you're animating lately. I hope you're feeling as good as you look!
Really appreciate that, man. Credit goes to my wife.
@@AlexanderBromley 😉😏 lol
@@AlexanderBromley Is her name TRT by any chance ? 😅😅😅
Gay and this guy is a cheater so it doesn't matter what he says
@@darealberrygarcia gonna need some context there, chief.
The lengths some roid users go to to excuse and minimize the effects of roids is sad.
@in the wrong lol okay Guenievre_
Its always a laugh, but all the roid influecners and youtubers gotta keep the views up and money coming in. So they will never tell you the truth.
Yep. Even Dr. Mike, who bases his brand on being a good source of objective fitness information based on the current body of scientific data, is on roids and seems to minimize their effect on him every chance he gets. I think probably the only time he got real was when he announced his retirement from bodybuilding and why he was doing it.
This video feels like a culmination of your decades of experience as a coach, athlete and astute observer of the industry. So many excellent points, so well articulated and to the point. I'm glad you exist man!
Amazing video, I can tell a ton of hard work went into this one!
I appreciate it! I came across one of Cody LeFevers shirts... "Have You Tried Trying?" and thought, "No, no I haven't"
Thank god people are talking realistically and honestly about this stuff now. I hope a lot more lifters can make informed decisions (either way) than we did in the 1980s.
I would take steroids if they didn't make you die young. But I want to live for a long as time
@@ralphwarom2514 Don't Ever Take Steroids
I was very badly informed so I never took steroids
@Mark Park The only cost is your time to get a proper education in endocrinology then you have nothing to lose but your ballz and a lot of money for regular check out at dr
The opposite is the case.
Comercial gyms are full of people doing steroids, it's crazy.
When it can give a woman muscles bigger than most men who consistently workout, it absolutely is a super solider serum lmao
Those women also train consistently though to be fair. Most likely a lot more consitently and for a lot longer. Can't really compare female pros to dudes who have been working out for a couple years. It's not like the female pros are as big as the male pros.
@@onZampie Take a woman who has trained for 4 years and a man who trained for 2. The man will still be considerably stronger and have far more muscle mass than the woman who has trained longer. Steroids completely change that. Combined with the fact that roids tend to be more potent for women, the female in this scenario has the potential to be just as strong and have a more muscular frame than the man within a year if she was juicing and he wasn't. The bone density changes, the muscle mass increase, the muscle fiber hardening, etc that steroids give are underestimated pretty heavily.
@@jaysilvia1177 Exactly.
Even when it comes to men, Kumail Nanjiani was a 40-something wet noodle who became swole and shredded in months. It's not just about the end result but also the starting point and age.
Or anabolic steroids are doing the fuck work..yeah obviously ppl on steroids lift consistently but it’s way easier.
Really good video. I’ve been training for 44 years. I grew up under Muscle and Fitness, Joe Weider and Arnold/Zane etc.. I didn’t know that 30 sets per body part was bs. I do now. Experience is beyond important. So many younger lifters think because they have been working out for six months and watched a few videos that they are experts. Nobody has all the answers, and training is nuanced (even if we wish it wasn’t) With that said. For those who are natural, consider the following.
1. Have a plan that is based on sound principles.
2. Get educated. I love the 6-30 reps for hypertrophy idea. While I don’t know exactly the numbers, common sense tells that 30 reps is a ton of time w/o fatigue.
3. Eat well. No matter your goals, food matters.
4. Recovery enough. The idea isn’t to train so hard, so often that you’re constantly fatigued. Rather it’s a balance.
5. Stick with movements that promote growth. A squat - deadlift - row - press - hinge work. They always have and always will.
6. Go slow, train long. While I can’t say I’ve never gotten injured, most of my career I’ve learned that slow progressions work.
7. Lastly, ask for help. Avoid the “I know everything” mantra.
Now, ask questions.
✍🏾✍🏾✍🏾✍🏾thAnk you
How important is protein in a diet? I understand it’s very important, but what’s your intake/day? Gram/pound ratio, I’m asking. I’m 220lbs, and 220 grams of protein @ about 16% bodyfat seems like an absurd amount of protein to continue to gain muscle tissue.
@@seanhokanson4115 obviiisly since you’re training you need protein to help the recovery process and to build muscle. There are general guidelines of 3/4 to a gram per pound of body weight. I think that while that may seem like a lot, it’s all part of your overall calorie consumption. I’d definitely spread it out over the course of a day. If you had 5-6 meals a day and snacks it isn’t as daunting. Stick with quality as well. Chicken - eggs - lean meats - a quality protein supplement if you need it. Finally, if you’re a little short, that won’t make a huge difference.
@@chattingwithshap8010 220 grams of protein spread over 6 meals would still be 36,6 grams per meal. Every day. These high numbers are indeed absurd and not sustainable for average people.
@@nothingEvil101 you’re right. But the person asking isn’t average and I didn’t say it needs to be 220. I said 3/4 to 1 gram. He is 220 and 16 percent body fat. That’s not even close to average. I didn’t want to write a super lengthy response. Getting enough protein is important for muscle growth and recovery, but it’s more of an Art than anything else. On those training days, especially harder ones it’s more necessary than on a day off or a recovery day or week. Plus, at 220 pounds getting 150 or so grams or so on certain days would be totally fine. Most people, even those who are intermediate lifters, and even some as advanced ones vary their calorie consumption regularly. But again, it’s important to see each person as unique, not cookie cutter.
"You'll lift nothing. And you'll be happy" 🤣
Beat me to it lol
Bugzzzzz shakes 😂😂😂
The great form reset 😂
World economic forum gotta love it
World Economic Steroids
I genuinely think this is one of if not the best videos exploring this topic honestly from both sides of the community. Informative and well done!
Damn, Brom! You're really stepping up the effort. Can't imagine the time that went into this. Your ability to narrate is really showing. 🤘
Anecdotal: friend of mine (36 y/o) hopped on 200mg of test a week. Says the difference is huge, squat went 40-ish kg in a couple of months. He admits to training waaaay less hard. Since I heared that, I'm not buying any 'but we actually need to train HARDER' messages by the juiced community
I’ve been on trt (120mg) for 5 years, my squat has only gone up 68 kg. Your buddy is using a Supraphysiological amount and clearly an outlier unless he was squatting under 4/500 lbs.
@@jrwitherite12 to be fair, he was a little below 400. Same time: his bloodwork showed the levels of a twelve year old, so I understand his decision. His wife says he's much nicer to be around, so that's a W as well
@@tielvandenheuvel5168glad all is working out for your friend 💪
That's trt lmao
But yes agreed it matters
@@jrwitherite12 how are you? What are your maxes?
Excellent! Thank you for shedding light on natty vs. not natty. I started weight training at 13. I’m 45 now and continue to learn, especially from your channel. Ive been natty my whole life. In my early to mid 30’s I was my strongest squatting 300x10 and benching 285 for a 1RM. Personally, I’ve trained all of the rep ranges through a 12-week periodization program. I’ve typically only have trained my body parts once a week. I think I’ll try training them twice a week with a little lower intensity and see if I can get back up to my old numbers, although, I don’t have much hope. I think the greatest takeaway is that there’s no magic program due to our bodies always trying to adapt.
Phew, for a moment I thought you're talking about kg...
Personal anecdote: trained from 20-25. Went from 135 to 190 10-15% body fat. Best numbers were 315 bench, 425 squat, 505 deadlift, 225 overhead press.
At 35, went on trt. Total test at 800. 315 total before trt. After one year went from 185 to 205 lbs. Bench 385, squat 485, deadlift 575, overhead press 265, strict curl 135. Fat went from 18% to 10%.
This is just trt in normal range. The stuff works.
Edited: total, not free test levels. 800 free would be nuts
Did you continue to lift between 25-35?
@Funeral Director no. kids, work, building a business. I started back up about 6 months before trt
Damn, 35 and taking TRT? I'm 39 and not taking trt. I'm squatting 425lb, deadlift 500lb, bench 325. But I been almost nonstop exercising since the military.
@@jacobtaylor7506 yep. Had some tbi and couldn't recover from it. Tried for years beforehand.
That's literally too many numbers. Just eat chicken and lift heavier rock each week.
A huge POINT to remember and understand this is that this 10-15 percent in strenght gain is when lifters stay in the same weight class if the gain muscle the Steroid related strenght gainn effect can be much higher.
Yeah, in reality it's more like you'll double your numbers quite literally if you're pushing natural vs enhanced. The most major component of steroids and the like is the increased lean mass your body will grow and is able to sustain, which leads to immense increase both in strength and in size as well.
@@luka188 yea the strength gain can be huge. on the downside could lead to injure with your tendons not keeping up
Doubling your numbers is not accurate. However, your 10-15% statistic is. I used to compete at the international level and one of the russian coaches told me that he estimated about 15% strength increase from PEDs. That never left me because at that level, I was getting beat by about 10% and I was natty. I think the larger point is the recovery, the volume some of those guys can handle is insane and volume is the biggest driver of progress. You can still get stronger on PEDs with less work, but when you actually do more work, the results are astounding.
@@sandrost4243 So you mean to say that PED's will only increase your lift from say, 300 kilo deadlift to a 330 kilo deadlift? How do you think Hafthor deadlifsts 501 kilograms?
I already explained, you can quite literally double your numbers from using PED's versus staying natural, because of the extra lean mass your body can hold when using PED's, which is really what makes the difference and allows top level strength athletes to perform superhuman feats of strength.
PED's when in the same weight class probably doesn't make that much of a difference, however the point I make is, the true strength of these PED's is how it allows you to surpass the limits of what a human body is naturally able to do massively by increasing the lean mass which can be supported by your body due to the increased testosterone levels and also the growth hormone which allows muscles to grow far larger than they otherwise could.
When you remain in the same weight class, you basically only use the PED's to 10% of their effect at best.
What really makes the difference is how it allows people to become 180 kilograms while only at 10-15% body fat, carrying more than 150 kilograms of lean mass, which is absolutely ludicrous.
@@luka188 Okay I must have misunderstood your point, you are also including increased mass, i.e., putting on weight. I was indeed talking about staying in the same weight class and I was also talking about highly trained individuals, 15% is very accurate. But yes, if someone puts on 40 pounds of muscle, you could double your lifts. Apologies for misunderstanding you.
Except that steroids are a super serum lmao. All these gearheads downplaying the potency and effectiveness of anabolics.
I was wondering when we were going to hear from a real authority on the effectiveness of anabolics! As a non-serious lifter who has never used PEDs, I'm also interested to hear your take on the 'human genetic limit' that you're 4 standard deviations away from.
@@AlexanderBromleyLol sarcasm is all you got. Clown 🤡
@@AlexanderBromley And blasting gear for 20 years doesn't make you an authority on the subject. Especially when you still look like a dyel manlet. That would be the equivalent of a heroin addict thinking he's an expert on chemistry. Please stop pretending like you aren't completely biased on this subject
This was an excellent video Bromley! Very detailed and well argued on all fronts. The prominence of drug use in gym culture you presented here is quite eye-opening , and really puts much of our current culture into context.
To answer your question at the end, a recent change that has worked well for me in terms of "shocking" myself out of plateaus in both size and strength is doing 6-8 week cycles of 5x20 on front squat, incline bench, RDL and OHP on their respective days, keeping the weight just light enough for about 1-2 RIR. I need a diaper change at the end of each workout.
Let's just say that watching you squat 185x50 in a previous video not just how absurdly strong you are, Bromley, but also how mentally resilient you are.
I hope the title is satire. Because some steroids or peds are literally soldier super serum. They change your mentality, or exaggerate it negatively.
The perspectives Bromley makes us consider about training philosophies and gym culture is second to none 💪
I used to watch Bromley on 1.25 speed, looks like not anymore. Great quality video!
I stalled on Madcows 5x5 with only a 245 bench. One day I said screw this stupid math crap and just started working hard. In just 6 weeks I added 40lbs to my bench. I benched hard, heavy and frequently. It makes sense a lot of these programs were written by enhanced lifters because I didn’t make gains for shit on these “intermediate programs”.
I’ve never liked the idea of a 5x5 unless it’s for squat or deadlift. And with deadlifts I still prefer warming up and doing 3x3’s because deads are taxing. When I squat 5x5’s I usually lower the weight after my first set and continually lower it by small increments. Math crap will never get you stronger really. You have to use math crap to determine what kind of hard work you’re able to do. That means recording your lifts and tracking your strength.
I kinda like to warm up to a set of 3 reps for squat or deadlift, then do sets of hopefully 5 around a weight I should be able to do for 5 in my head and track my lifts for that day.
Bromley is still alive! All's right with the world again!
so why dont you press 335lbs as an ex steroid user right now?
"SCIENCE IN THE STREETS, BRO IN THE SHEETS " 😭👏🏾👏🏾
Your videos have improved so much in the last year. Loving it.
No one is saying steroids are the only reason they look like that. We're only saying, you can not look like that without them. That's it.
Lol based on all of the people you didn't poll? Either way, you have no idea what someone can look like without drugs. There are tribe members in sub Saharan Africa who wouldnt pass a natty or not. You all are guessing (poorly) and, in the face of no real information, the gaps get filled with insecurity and ego.
@@AlexanderBromleyCalm down, bozo. We get that you need to defend yourself.
@@AlexanderBromleywe know that nobody can look like Ronnie Colman without steroids.
@stickedice1979 yep
@@AlexanderBromley No clue where the poll was done, but certainly doesn't express my views. Of course you need to workout to gain muscles, but it's ridiculous to think that those gains can be gained naturally, especially in as short time frame.
"There are tribe members in sub Saharan Africa who wouldnt pass a natty or not. "
Name one, Whenever I look at "tribe members" in actual natural environment they all look like bunch of skinny fat people.
I respect Bromley but this vid felt like cope to me, I have seen individuals in various gym who dont know shit, do shitty half reps for about and hour (some of them having more than 50 years old) and casually leaves the gym being the most freaky jacked dude and I have to beleive that was just 15% drug enhancement and otherwise they would still rock 85% of that WITH JUST ONE EFFING HOUR OF EFFING SHITTY TRAINING.
I'm seriously trying not to rant but io cant shake the feeling of being treated as a stupid here.
It is cope. They can definitely make more of a difference than 10%. And most of the "evidence" he had to back up his claim were personal anecdotes or opinions. As for his own personal experience with how much they affected his lifts, there were many factors involved, not just PED's. And even then, he did not mention what types of PED's taken, or in what dosages.
Thank you for being the voice of reason on these topics. So few people are honest about this while still bring reasonable about the huge progression natural lifters can have.
no one says they can't progress. What he made is known as strawman fallacy.
@@Tespri Elaborate what you mean by that.
@@BobBobby-kt4sc google strawman
I'm 39 and I exercise (not always consistently, have had up to 3 months off sometimes) since 15. Even before that I loved to do push-ups, pull-ups and other bodyweight exercises. I've also got into running sometimes, once I ran half marathon (by myself in the night). I have had about 3-4 cycles on steroids, all low doses, in my life. One of the bad sides of that might be, that I think my natural testosterone levels could have been higher now, should I have never used those (haven't really got bloodwork done, but my sex drive isn't at all what it once was). With that said, low levels of steroids have given me a lot of strength. On my 1st cycle, I was 19, exercising for 4 years already, and I had a plateau on the bench press, wouldn't move up from 105 kg for the last 3 months. Then I did a cycle on flat dose of 5 mg dbol per day, for 40 days. I was taking it every day with my breakfast. On the 40th day exactly my bench press increased to 135 kg. +30 kg in 40 days, I was shocked. 3 months later, without taking anything, my bench was still 135 kg, didn't lose any of that. In the light of my experience, I find it hard to believe, than anyone lifting heavy numbers can do that without PEDs. Even with the best genetics in the world, I don't see it possible to do more than 250 kg bench or over 350 squat or deadlift (or >150 kg overhead press). Even those numbers sound too high, except if you're not somehow >190 cm >170 kg monster natural freak...
Unless your like NFL offensive lineman build 6'4 300 pounds plus
Brian shaw ultra rare types but other than that ya I agree
@@taylorg8509Those NFL players use roids too.
Hell's yeah, dbol is amazing. Especially for the bench.
Been natural through my whole journey. 220 lb weight loss from almost 400 to 150 and now I am up around 183. Been about 4 years and I’ve noticed what you have said is very true. Plateaus come very frequent and now with your information I am going to train a bit differently. You’ve earned yourself a sub for being a true fitness connoisseurs, thank you buddy ❤
Wow - you more than halved you body weight. How long did it take and how many calories were you eating per day?
@@dreamdiction well I basically went from drinking almost a 12 pack of Mountain Dew per day, as well as eating absolutely horribly. The end of 2018 I was like 400. I am assuming I was I taking just from that an absolutely incredible amount I don’t even know but it was bad. I then started my weight loss journey with 0 knowledge which was a stupid mistake. I barely ate anything and completely stayed away from any kind of sugar or carbs completely because of the things I read in the internet and it really worked. I was around 250 at this point and I still did not workout at all and I lost all that within a few months because I was literally eating like nothing. I went down to around 200 and I started feeling like shit completely, and at this point we are at the 6-8 month range. I at this point developed body dysmorphia and I think an eating disorder because of the fact that food in my mind was the devil so I ate just enough to get by. Hitting around the 1 year mark I was at 152 lbs and I felt HORRIBLE! I then decided that now was the time to start working out and eating food again since I knew that I had run out of energy completely and I looked like I had no muscle but fat still so it was horrible to even look in a mirror. So for the first year of working out I watched some but not a ton of videos and did mostly reading and watching people with no guidance so my beginning was very skewed. I got muscle but could not gain weight for anything and I ended up hitting a plateau from my newbie gains. I then in my second year did a lot more research and found people like daddy Noel and Sean N and then started to realize the benefits of eating and being okay with myself and trusting the process. I recommend to anyone starting the journey that I took to use your weight to your advantage and train hard, study hard and do it the right way because if I had I would’ve been an absolute friggen unit by now haha. Anyways here we are in 2023 and today I have been trying to main gain and I am sitting at 185 lean muscle. I will continue to workout for the rest of my life and I will take myself to the absolute limit naturally. I appreciate all who read this whole thing as I am a living example of the downside of self image and remember you can do ANYThING you set your mind too. I love every one of the kings out there looking out for himself, maybe I will start a channel just to talk with people about there journey and men’s positive mental health. Have a great day everyone and much love ❤️
@@landonconverse7995 Thanks, all I would add to what you have said is that muscle only re-grows while you are asleep so getting a full eight hours of good quality deep sleep every night is ideal for building muscle.
@@landonconverse7995Imagining drinking a 12 pack of Mountain Dew now, for me, makes me wanna puke lol. Congrats on the weight loss journey.
@@KlaustheViking yea it was a very dark 10 years, thanks buddy I appreciate you
A lot of good info and perspective here. For me, through the past 20 years Ive found not training to failure, and rather training around RPE 7 for both size and strength is far far more effective. I personally cannot agree that natural lifters should train their sets to failure... whereas I believe enhanced, you can and should train to failure occassionally. If and when I go off the natty train, will be interesting to see how my training can change and be effective for gains
Yes they are, you can literally get almost twice as strong, and twice as big with them, as if training natural. In most sports, you have no chance to reach top level in pro competition, without doping, that's just facts.
Literally almost twice as strong.... why are you making up numbers and acting like you have experience? There's a whole spot in the video comparing natty and geared records, including my numbers before and after. 800lb pullers wouldn't be stuck at 400 without gear.
Steroids could not exist and you still need 1 in 1000 genetics to hang at the top. Blast all the gear you want, you ain't touching their heels.
@@AlexanderBromley Look at Pictures, and compare body composition, weight etc of top guys of their Sport, like Hafthor and many others, he became literally almost twice what he was pre roids, and a complete different human, like many others, it's just night and day. There's few people who bench 150+ kg natty, and theres few people who bench 300+ on gear. You will find more guys deadlifting 200+ natural, than 400+ on gear, yes, and I said "almost", and that's simply true, roids are THE GAMECHANGER and THE MOST CRUCIAL FACTOR and make worlds of difference in performance, strength, muscle building. Has nothing to do with that some tards don't know how to use gear properly, or don't know how to train and eat properly, or that some have a poor foundation. You will never be Mr Olympia or Worlds strongest man, or even be remotely close or in the same sphere without roids, you won't even win a "natural bodybuilding" competition without roids, that's just reality.
Solid video. Glad you mentioned how strength training can aide in hypertrophy. I decided to give a pyramid set a try and found that It boosted my 12 rep max on OHP from 20kg to 25kg after months of stagnation.
Overall I think that the take away here is that natty's should train smarter AND harder.
I'm a pro natty BB and I loved your intro lol
And I love that you're diving into the performance motivations and benefits
When I talked to one of Boris Sheiko's assistant coaches many years back, he said the Russians quantified the benefit of lifters using PEDs vs those who do not (for highly trained athletes). They arrived at a figure that was approximately 15%. That's 15% on your total if you are highly trained natty vs. on gear. If you total 1500 pounds natural, you'll be ballpark 1725 with gear. Anecdotally, from my experience (20+ competitive), this seems pretty accurate. It's the difference from an Elite powerlifter to an international elite or world ranked lifter.
If steroids dont give you a massive boost and help you push further than natural limits, why would you take them.
They are a game changer,. Bodybuilders/ strongmen ect wouldnt take them otherwise
Survivorship bias. You are looking at the outliers who get massive gains and ignore the thousands of nobodies in commercial gyms who blend into the crowds... Most people on roids are under 200 pounds, you wouldn't even look twice.
@@amazin7006 yes some dont respond to it. But my point still stands.
Just cos it dosnt work for some dosent change the fact that its a game changing drug. Theres a reason we call them enhanced. So if steroids dont turn you into a beast (if you respond to it cos for some reason i have to specify that cos you are all idiots) then why would body builders use them.
@@Ojthemighty Who the fuck said they don't make you bigger? You are responding to a comment nobody ever made in this entire video. Go rewatch from 10:50 and try again
@@amazin7006 who said i was responding to the video
@@amazin7006 so if you agree with me why sre you getting so butt hurt?
My best gains are when I accidentally planned 2-3 times per week per body part. I had a “bro split” I made 6 day split where the focus of each day was something like this: Quads, chest, arms, hammies and glutes, shoulders, back.
I didn’t realize why, but my triceps, back, biceps, and glutes were huge. Everything else struggled. Well, those were the body parts that saw 2-3x per week of training. Everything else was only hit once a week. 😂 100% natural btw, never had a chance to try it or I might have in the past.
I did a split similar but 3 on, one off. Chest, quads, back, rest, triceps, snatch grip deadlifts/post chain, biceps, rest repeat. Triceps day consisted of heavy cg floor presses or cg bench so chest was hit as well. Bicep day always started off with dead hang chins so my upper back got hit then I did the basic curl stuff. I sprinkled in lateral variations on chest day and tricep days and rear delts on upper back and bicep days. Might go back to that once it gets hot as I train in garage. Quick sessions. Bulgarians or lunges after my snatch grip DL variation so quads got hit as well. Leg curls before squats on quad day. Chest day is always an incline, flat variation and end with v bar dips so triceps get hit. Upper back always starts with dead hang neutral chins then supported rows, if up to it maybe some empty bar poundstone curls for xtra bicep work. Loaded carries occasionally at the end of squat or deadlift day for the yoke. Natty as well at 45
I have been riding on the gains of a 3x week Full Body approach for a while now (really enjoy the meals I need before the resulting 2hr workout to properly carbload too :D.) I love how I can modulate the body part or part thereof focus by playing with order, repetition and rep range. Hurray.
You just disprove this video. No roided powerlifter or Bodybuilder trains like that. They split everything up. Bro split or PPL typically. Or some variation. Most people that do fullbody are straight up natty and have jobs. Unlike these clowns online. This is just more justification for roiders ruining lifting
@@3-dreticle826 what the heck are you even talking about how did he disprove it ?
Bro I do this. Chest tris and shoulders 3 days, back and biceps on the other 3. Legs on back day. I do too much volume for core I used to do core but simply don’t have time anymore.
I have no issue at all with people using. It’s when they try and fool
People with “I am all natural”
They still are insanely dedicated and it takes a huge amount of work. Just don’t try and say it’s natural. I hate that
If they want to lie and live in a fool’s paradise that’s fine too. But if they want to take peoples money and promise the same results as natty yeah then it’s straight up fraud
People keep on ignoring the fact the people who take steroids can skip all the hard years of hitting and breaking through plateaus that naturals have to go through.
They can basically sprint to their natural limit within a period of a year or two. Considering the vast majority of natural lifters will never hit their genetic potential this is the largest benefit of steroids for the average user.
Thats entirely made up
@AlexanderBromley basically yes but no I would argue that a noob that takes gear with a good training and diat would look pretty good in a year but not better than what he would achieve by 3 years of natural good training I just experience it by two brothers the one natural for 5 year and his bro that got him in less than 2 years on gear
Around 1-in 10 Gym members here in the UK use Peds...
From my personal experience my old Gym friends who took them no longer train due to health issues (from Peds) while I'm still training(drug free)...
It's sad to see them now...
Noble natties there are some of us out there. Stay natty fellas
💯
LMAO Ronnie was on steroids before he got super big when he went on GH and Insulin AS WELL as steroids in an interview he said "i was on skittles but not THOSE skittles".
People who take significant amounts of steroids to look good, their outside bodies might seem muscular and fit but that does not equate to health, health is mainly determined by how well your organs are functioning and the balancing of your blood chemicals. What heavy steroid users do is sacrifice the health of their organs for the aesthetics of their physique.
The difference between tested and untested is immense for powerlifting. I refuse to go to drug tested meets anymore, went to one and almost fell asleep during the bench press.
Why?
@@loungeroomlifting2223 tested meets have a neutered atmosphere
I have been a novice bb for years. I recently started oly lifts and focusing on strength and speed. I’m 40 tho and your “ big dreams and bad genes” comment explains my entire life. Love it!
Awesome video sir, you really narrowed down the science of P.E.D. usage and natural lifting to a T. I'm going to implement these suggested training ideas to my splits. 11/10🏆
If these drugs are so ineffective, why would anyone take them? It seems illogical that people risk their health for such a small effect. if you take this and apply it to a sport like Olympic weightlifting, you might notice that someone like Ilya was able to snatch 190, but after he tested positive, he only snatched 160. That’s a very significant difference. So I question the methodology being used when people claim that steroids have a small effect.
Dr. Mike's take on Greg Nuckols' research is actually a little off. He is comparing, for example, the strength of a 100KG natty lifter to that of a 100KG enhanced lifter and noting the difference between the two is somewhere around 10%. Now, that is not telling us what will happen to the strength levels of that 100KG natty guy after that guy himself goes on gear.
PEDs not only help in adding mass and strength, they also help in the reduction of body fat. In other words, that 100KG natty guy could stay at 100KG with significant added strength and size. I would guess that he would make a lot more than ten percent gains.
How is it still hard work when you are on gear? I mean compare two dads, one on normal TRT for his age and one is not. You know one of them is walking in feeling like 25 again.
- You need less gym days
- Less work during the workouts
- You have more energy while doing the workouts both mentally and more glycogen in the muscle
"It's just hard work"
Gymbro who forgot what fatigue feels like after his cycle became more like a straight line.
Because, if you're doing it right, you're taking advantage of the elevated MRV to do more work than you could have otherwise. I'm not speaking for the typical corporate gym tool who just wants to get beach ready. Competitors, those who want to win, absolutely abuse their bodies. You said it, more energy and more glycogen; that means you have the capacity to red-line it farther, even when you're in the shittiest part of your powerlifting prep or a depleted bodybuilder who is peaking for a show on 1200 calories a day.
I never used peds but it’s pretty cool what people can accomplish when they throw health on the backburner. I kinda look at the enhanced like stuntmen. I ain’t willing to but I wanna see it.
Very interesting and nuanced video. Thank you, I really enjoyed it
Colab!
Strength day (legs)
Technique day (full body)
Power day (torso, either horizontal, or vertical, never both)
Power day (legs, sometimes overhead included)
Technique day (full body)
Strength day (torso, again same plane)
Rest (Saturday)
It works for me. I basically am training the shoulder girdle and lower body daily either directly or inadvertently, esp since I picked up clubbells, my shoulders have never been happier being mobilized, even strengthened, daily. I train in waves like a restart week, a builder week, another builder week, a peak week, and grounding week, and then a deload week before I "restart,
We’re gonna go with no.
Statement: "Tested powerlifters in the US don't cheat."
Source: "Trust me bro, you can smell it in the air bro, please bro, they told me they are clean bro!"
Americans always first to claim natty, hold all the records in powerlifting then complain about competing Vs countries without testing in the IPF, really gets the noggin joggin doesn't it..
@@SUPER8ALTERN8 It's literally just cold war era propaganda. US at the time was trying to besmirch the soviet union as much as possible, so they convinced the public that americans are proud and noble and natty whilst the dirty soviets were all drug cheats.
All through my 20's I was an overtrain-and-crash natty lifter, because I did try to go to the gym super frequently and push myself hard and tried some dumb stuff. There were some results, but I've been able to dial that stuff back in the past few years and go down the route of calisthenics, bands work, cycling. I'm probably undertraining now - I might be hitting something like 1.5 times a week, with a lot of "just do a little warmup" sessions and then one bigger one - but it's in a relatively healthy place, where I'm not pummeling myself with fatigue and I can focus on other parts of life.
0p😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊p
Superb video and very informative. Thank you - keep up the great work!
Great editing. Feels like a documentary. Reminds me of the ZT MPMD team up & Josh Brett Videos. The memes were fun too. I appreciated the audio clip from The Office
Great video
I would totally believe that being enhanced with just test base would give you a 10-20% strength and size increase. But ain't many just running that these days - we got designer stuff now that implodes strength with very little mass increase you can take in addition to just the test.
The 15% strength increases is at a given weight. Obviously the main benefit is weight gain and gaining muscle will massively increase you strength in the long run. I'm like 3x stronger now lol. But the 15% is if I was the exact same size (after a much longer training period as a natty) then my enhanced body would still be 15% stronger with identical muscle mass
It comes down to strenght of mind of a person competing !
I done sports for the first 30 years of my life, ( swimming and kayaking ) and I rather lose and know that Iam clean rahter than win by cheating.
I feel like being natural is the most important part of my fitness journey. I mainly train to push my limits and see what my body can achieve just by eating and training. Plus being healthy is a really big bonus, so it's a win win situation :)
Absolutely no one on 200mg+ could achieve the body they have without it no matter genetics.
Not one.
I wrestled when i was young and have always worked out well. I have struggled to bulk my entire life, for me its a struggle to eat enough. I have been tempted to go on a cycle many times, but always remember why I started in the first place, it was never about getting big to me, it was about bringing out the best im capable of. I dont mind steroid use as long as you’re honest about it, but im looking to test and craft the body i was born with, and have learned to accept i wont ever be able to hit 200 lbs (my original goal weight). Im happy fluctuating between 170-180 while staying lean, and i was the scrawny guy competing at 133 when i was 16. Embrace what feels healthy
You’re still downplaying them though … steroids do ALLLLLOOOOTTTT
You, sir, are like the Doug Wilson of the lifting world. Everything is well said, informative and engaging!
You know I won’t take steroids, but I would take the super soldier serum
Maik Wiedenbach was an Olympic swimmer for Germany. He has some stories about dealers, when the wall came down, going from shoe boxes of D-bol to rooms filled with boxes of D-bol, T-bol, Test & others. There was so much that they couldn't possibly sell it ("I'll give you 50 instead of 10, for the same price, and I'll throw in 200 T-bols for nothing!"). Later, he was a bodybuilder & "fitness model", so he sure knows his PEDs. Even he says that "strength training has gone from a training culture to a drug culture".
This video was 10/10, Bromley. I watched it all the way through a few times because there’s just so much top notch information in here that cuts through all the BS. Thanks for all you do and keep ‘em coming, sir!
Great video even a year later, really got me thinking about ways i could improve my training and also gave me a way better understanding of gear. Im getting towards the 2 year mark of my lifitng journey now so i think its time for me to try different methods of progressive overload and programming to break some of my plateuing muscle groups and work on some of my weakpoints. Cheers for another banger vid.
I started full body workout cycle with three days a week with every workout have the big three started to brine out and changed it to two days a week and so far it’s been working better the strength I started out with has improved and I keep getting stronger
Niceeee congrats for the video bro
Yes it is a super soldier serum. I do it myself. Its just potentially dangerous.
awesome vid. i clicked on it because i work in substance use and we have clients that use PEDs and although I have done a little powerlifting myself I didn't really know anything about them. this covered a lot, thankyou.
Fed jokes. Globalism jokes. Gold video, the one that will break the 100k subscriber natty-limit.
My only problem with steroids, is that users give advice for lifting that won't necessarily apply to natty lifters. On the juice you can go to the gym and go hard everyday. You can't do that natty, you will be injured going everyday doing 100s of reps.
Wish I saw content like this earlier on. I realize alot of advice on the internet is geared toward enhanced training. A huge thing I've learned that took my training to the next level is learning that 10-20 sets, got to hit a body part 2 times or more a week to grow, and hypertrophic ranges are relative. Once I understood this, I started training full body hard training 3 days a week. Did less work and got more gains. Since then I just progressively overload from there.
Excellent video Brom. Thanks. It reenforced my belief in what I have been doing. Will watch it again, since there's so much information.
*on the internet*
Gear using friend: you don't have to tell us you're natty, we can tell
Me: cope harder committing felonies to be slightly above average at a hobby
*IRL*
Gear using friend: dude that's cool that you decided to stay natty, you're strong af
Me: I'm just trying to be big and strong like you fam
The second interaction is me but just chasing after freakied and Bugenhagen knowing full well it’s an impossible journey 😤
Othe best video a natural could ask for, never seen something so dense packed with good information for natural lifters. Without this really takes sometime to aquire information not even mentioning the time it takes a to filter them all
BAHAHAHAHAHA those non lifting globalists bit got me.
At the top of my list of things i find pleasing it has to be listening to the charismatic and flawless way this guy delivers a podcast!
All successful bodybuilders fitness models or strength athletes downplay the importance and role of genetics and steroids
I liked how you included a compilation of clips from other TH-camrs, very thorough
The natty path is the true path.
Discovered you a couple of weeks ago and you have become my favourite lifting channel. Impartial, evidence based approach, explained intelligently in an engaging way with clarity. Thank you for all you do.
Im 35, I was natty going on about 2 years, didn't see much gains nor a lot of strength buildup (and this was going to the gym 4 to 5 times a week). Decided to jump into small dosages of test and an estrogen blocker, and I have to say, my pumps jumped up like no other. It was like the missing piece to a puzzle. Not encouraging supplement use, but I'm pretty sure it wayy easier for younger people to stay natty.
Best a luck with the man boobs. They’ll be meeting you down the road 😂
34 and I wanna get on so bad, have no clue how tho smh…
@@HerbanMagi Go to T test and if you score low then you will get permission to legally buy it.
IF you have normal or higher than normal T... Well... You can always go to weightloss journey to artificially drop your T levels to the bottom.
Buying testosterone is beta as fuck. At that point you're just admitting that you weren't meant to be a man in the first place
Watching videos like this make me think i was lucky to get the gains i did staying in the 8-12 reps range for a loooooong time.
I love steroids. I started using in my 20's. Now @ 43 I do trt, (not through a doc),. My wife loves steroids too. She loves the fact I have the sex drive of an 18 year old at 43. I plan on being "on" the rest of my life. Whether you choose to train natural or use PED's genetics still play a role. To each his or her own
beta male
"Rest of my life" meaning until you get a massive heart attack at 50?
@nukesploder you mean guys like yourself that call juicers "beta males" because you're natty and too scared to go on gear so in order to feel good about yourself you put steroid users down
Literally nothing impressive about being a roid user. It's not even your gains, it's the gains roids give you.
The biggest thing im taking from this is that I should get a trainers help at the start while building a workout routine.
The natty or not discourse is exhausting and in most cases pointless. My rule of thumb is if someone is trying to sell you something and using their physique as marketing, just assume they are using PEDs. Good lifting advice is like good science, repeated by multiple reputable sources, independently verifiable and doesn't claim to be generalizable to every case.
Hi Alex, this was an excellent video. Thanks
The thing that sticks out to me the most in the online community is that people have super low expectations of natty physiques and anyone who achieves a high level automatically gets accusations.
I think its a reaction the over prevalence of fake nattys, We've gone too far now and think that any high level physique is not naturally obtainable when the truth is that that the top 0.1 percent can achieve that 28 FFMI, what I look for in determining who is fake or not has to do with timescale, an ELITE natural takes decades to reach that point when you have young lifters reaching 28FFMi in 4 years by the time they are 21 its extremely unlikely they are lifetime natty, but freaks DO exist.
I see just as much of the opposite thinking.
Like in the old days of COD modern warfare: better than me = hacking, worse than me = noob
@@toximan2008
Ha, that used to happen on Counter Strike too
I thought I had bad genetics and I just worked really really hard until I uploaded my dna to genome link.
Turns out in every metric my genetics are amazing and I just didn’t eat enough for the first two years of my training lol
"Steroids Are NOT a Super Soldier Serum" I think I took a wrong turn and ended up at the clown show.
Congratulations on 100k subscribers 🦾