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Hey Alex, my fellow big guy. Do you have advice for powerlifting for guys who also have injuries. I'm in my 30's, decided to lose weight during covid 495lbs to now 265lbs, still a little chubby but have been powerlifting for a little over a year. I herniated my L4/L5 when I was a diesel mechanic and that's why my weight blew up. I've tweaked my back 2 times in the past year lifting but I've made progress without injury for a few months now. I can 5x3 405lb DL and 5x3 455lb squat. PR deadlift is 425 because I'm afraid of hurting my back, but I want to be able to hit 500lbs. Is that possible? I'm a big guy, big boned, wrestler/football in HS. Genetically I think I could do it. But with 2 kids and a full time job I'm scared to push my lift and risk injuring myself and not being able to work. Help me out here brother
@@DadGetsFit Yes. His advice is going to be to take drugs. Take PED's. That's what his advice is gunna be. Its like you didn't even watch the video lol. There is a reason why he himself juices after all.
Yep. Even Dr. Mike, who bases his brand on being a good source of objective fitness information based on the current body of scientific data, is on roids and seems to minimize their effect on him every chance he gets. I think probably the only time he got real was when he announced his retirement from bodybuilding and why he was doing it.
Dr Mike is a hack, stop drinking the kool aid. Watch his ridiculous video about how sleep > steroids. its total cope. Even his mental health comments come across as him trying very hard to sound like a badass, very severe case of small man syndrome.
Bromley, I don't know if anyone has told you this yet, but whatever you're doing these days to take care of yourself is really working. You're looking sharper than ever and you can even see it down to how you're animating lately. I hope you're feeling as good as you look!
Thank god people are talking realistically and honestly about this stuff now. I hope a lot more lifters can make informed decisions (either way) than we did in the 1980s.
@Mark Park The only cost is your time to get a proper education in endocrinology then you have nothing to lose but your ballz and a lot of money for regular check out at dr
This video feels like a culmination of your decades of experience as a coach, athlete and astute observer of the industry. So many excellent points, so well articulated and to the point. I'm glad you exist man!
As a natty is not easy. I got years under the belt. I see kids and old, lifting for one year and have a body of a 3 to 5 year lifting. They look bigger and won't lie better cuts or ripped than me. You can't sustain a 6 abs all year round naturally. No water or food all year round (yeah, right). Only on competition can you do that for a limited time. That is how u can see hoes the fake natty are. And if ur not natty, I understand u want all eyes on you. But don't say ur natty when ur not. Including movie stars with rice and broccoli formula.
Really good video. I’ve been training for 44 years. I grew up under Muscle and Fitness, Joe Weider and Arnold/Zane etc.. I didn’t know that 30 sets per body part was bs. I do now. Experience is beyond important. So many younger lifters think because they have been working out for six months and watched a few videos that they are experts. Nobody has all the answers, and training is nuanced (even if we wish it wasn’t) With that said. For those who are natural, consider the following. 1. Have a plan that is based on sound principles. 2. Get educated. I love the 6-30 reps for hypertrophy idea. While I don’t know exactly the numbers, common sense tells that 30 reps is a ton of time w/o fatigue. 3. Eat well. No matter your goals, food matters. 4. Recovery enough. The idea isn’t to train so hard, so often that you’re constantly fatigued. Rather it’s a balance. 5. Stick with movements that promote growth. A squat - deadlift - row - press - hinge work. They always have and always will. 6. Go slow, train long. While I can’t say I’ve never gotten injured, most of my career I’ve learned that slow progressions work. 7. Lastly, ask for help. Avoid the “I know everything” mantra. Now, ask questions.
How important is protein in a diet? I understand it’s very important, but what’s your intake/day? Gram/pound ratio, I’m asking. I’m 220lbs, and 220 grams of protein @ about 16% bodyfat seems like an absurd amount of protein to continue to gain muscle tissue.
@@seanhokanson4115 obviiisly since you’re training you need protein to help the recovery process and to build muscle. There are general guidelines of 3/4 to a gram per pound of body weight. I think that while that may seem like a lot, it’s all part of your overall calorie consumption. I’d definitely spread it out over the course of a day. If you had 5-6 meals a day and snacks it isn’t as daunting. Stick with quality as well. Chicken - eggs - lean meats - a quality protein supplement if you need it. Finally, if you’re a little short, that won’t make a huge difference.
@@chattingwithshap8010 220 grams of protein spread over 6 meals would still be 36,6 grams per meal. Every day. These high numbers are indeed absurd and not sustainable for average people.
@@nothingEvil101 you’re right. But the person asking isn’t average and I didn’t say it needs to be 220. I said 3/4 to 1 gram. He is 220 and 16 percent body fat. That’s not even close to average. I didn’t want to write a super lengthy response. Getting enough protein is important for muscle growth and recovery, but it’s more of an Art than anything else. On those training days, especially harder ones it’s more necessary than on a day off or a recovery day or week. Plus, at 220 pounds getting 150 or so grams or so on certain days would be totally fine. Most people, even those who are intermediate lifters, and even some as advanced ones vary their calorie consumption regularly. But again, it’s important to see each person as unique, not cookie cutter.
Those women also train consistently though to be fair. Most likely a lot more consitently and for a lot longer. Can't really compare female pros to dudes who have been working out for a couple years. It's not like the female pros are as big as the male pros.
@@onZampie Take a woman who has trained for 4 years and a man who trained for 2. The man will still be considerably stronger and have far more muscle mass than the woman who has trained longer. Steroids completely change that. Combined with the fact that roids tend to be more potent for women, the female in this scenario has the potential to be just as strong and have a more muscular frame than the man within a year if she was juicing and he wasn't. The bone density changes, the muscle mass increase, the muscle fiber hardening, etc that steroids give are underestimated pretty heavily.
Even when it comes to men, Kumail Nanjiani was a 40-something wet noodle who became swole and shredded in months. It's not just about the end result but also the starting point and age.
Appreciate your take. Started lifting religiously in school on thru my military career, but genetics have always been against me. Because of my bone structure, the terminally insecure have always marked me as an easy target, forcing me to learn fighting when I was still very young. When my father was diagnosed with Alz/Dim from agent orange exposure in Nam, I moved back to care for him so he could finish his final years in the comfort of his own home. Doing so put me in a bad place emotionally and I let myself go. I quit exercising & eating right. I shut myself off from the rest of my family, friends, the outside world. After 12 years, I finally started taking better care of myself and getting back to where I used to be....both mentally and physically. I had always thought (going as far back as school days) that a cycle would give me that boost to get me over the plateau/ to next level. But it wasn't until recently I remembered, that while I won't be winning any contests anytime soon, there is no replacement for hard work and sheer determination. Of course, the leaps in exercise/nutrition/supplement science don't hurt either.
Anecdotal: friend of mine (36 y/o) hopped on 200mg of test a week. Says the difference is huge, squat went 40-ish kg in a couple of months. He admits to training waaaay less hard. Since I heared that, I'm not buying any 'but we actually need to train HARDER' messages by the juiced community
I’ve been on trt (120mg) for 5 years, my squat has only gone up 68 kg. Your buddy is using a Supraphysiological amount and clearly an outlier unless he was squatting under 4/500 lbs.
@@jrwitherite12 to be fair, he was a little below 400. Same time: his bloodwork showed the levels of a twelve year old, so I understand his decision. His wife says he's much nicer to be around, so that's a W as well
A huge POINT to remember and understand this is that this 10-15 percent in strenght gain is when lifters stay in the same weight class if the gain muscle the Steroid related strenght gainn effect can be much higher.
Yeah, in reality it's more like you'll double your numbers quite literally if you're pushing natural vs enhanced. The most major component of steroids and the like is the increased lean mass your body will grow and is able to sustain, which leads to immense increase both in strength and in size as well.
Doubling your numbers is not accurate. However, your 10-15% statistic is. I used to compete at the international level and one of the russian coaches told me that he estimated about 15% strength increase from PEDs. That never left me because at that level, I was getting beat by about 10% and I was natty. I think the larger point is the recovery, the volume some of those guys can handle is insane and volume is the biggest driver of progress. You can still get stronger on PEDs with less work, but when you actually do more work, the results are astounding.
@@sandrost4243 So you mean to say that PED's will only increase your lift from say, 300 kilo deadlift to a 330 kilo deadlift? How do you think Hafthor deadlifsts 501 kilograms? I already explained, you can quite literally double your numbers from using PED's versus staying natural, because of the extra lean mass your body can hold when using PED's, which is really what makes the difference and allows top level strength athletes to perform superhuman feats of strength. PED's when in the same weight class probably doesn't make that much of a difference, however the point I make is, the true strength of these PED's is how it allows you to surpass the limits of what a human body is naturally able to do massively by increasing the lean mass which can be supported by your body due to the increased testosterone levels and also the growth hormone which allows muscles to grow far larger than they otherwise could. When you remain in the same weight class, you basically only use the PED's to 10% of their effect at best. What really makes the difference is how it allows people to become 180 kilograms while only at 10-15% body fat, carrying more than 150 kilograms of lean mass, which is absolutely ludicrous.
@@luka188 Okay I must have misunderstood your point, you are also including increased mass, i.e., putting on weight. I was indeed talking about staying in the same weight class and I was also talking about highly trained individuals, 15% is very accurate. But yes, if someone puts on 40 pounds of muscle, you could double your lifts. Apologies for misunderstanding you.
I'm 39 and I exercise (not always consistently, have had up to 3 months off sometimes) since 15. Even before that I loved to do push-ups, pull-ups and other bodyweight exercises. I've also got into running sometimes, once I ran half marathon (by myself in the night). I have had about 3-4 cycles on steroids, all low doses, in my life. One of the bad sides of that might be, that I think my natural testosterone levels could have been higher now, should I have never used those (haven't really got bloodwork done, but my sex drive isn't at all what it once was). With that said, low levels of steroids have given me a lot of strength. On my 1st cycle, I was 19, exercising for 4 years already, and I had a plateau on the bench press, wouldn't move up from 105 kg for the last 3 months. Then I did a cycle on flat dose of 5 mg dbol per day, for 40 days. I was taking it every day with my breakfast. On the 40th day exactly my bench press increased to 135 kg. +30 kg in 40 days, I was shocked. 3 months later, without taking anything, my bench was still 135 kg, didn't lose any of that. In the light of my experience, I find it hard to believe, than anyone lifting heavy numbers can do that without PEDs. Even with the best genetics in the world, I don't see it possible to do more than 250 kg bench or over 350 squat or deadlift (or >150 kg overhead press). Even those numbers sound too high, except if you're not somehow >190 cm >170 kg monster natural freak...
Steroids have been a game-changer in my fitness routine, providing the extra edge I needed to advance more rapidly. When used with careful planning and consideration for overall health, they can be a powerful tool for anyone serious about reaching their peak potential.
Test Enan is commonly used in hormone replacement therapy to address low testosterone levels, promoting muscle growth and improving overall well-being. Tren, on the other hand, greatly enhances muscle size and strength. Speeds up recovery from injuries as well.
Totally agree. Steroids helped me recover faster and maintain muscle mass, especially during intense training or after injury. It's amazing how they can support bone health as well, which is crucial for people with conditions like osteoporosis.
There’s no doubt to the benefits of steroids. Honestly, it has greatly impacted my life. It played a major role in achieving my desired physique. People should learn not to abuse these substances and act like they are all bad.
Hey everyone, I’m looking for reliable sources for both steroids and protein supplements. I know it’s crucial to be cautious with these, especially with steroids, so I want to make sure I’m getting them from trustworthy sources. For protein supplements, I’m also interested in recommendations for reputable brands. Any suggestions or advice on where to find safe and high quality options?
Personal anecdote: trained from 20-25. Went from 135 to 190 10-15% body fat. Best numbers were 315 bench, 425 squat, 505 deadlift, 225 overhead press. At 35, went on trt. Total test at 800. 315 total before trt. After one year went from 185 to 205 lbs. Bench 385, squat 485, deadlift 575, overhead press 265, strict curl 135. Fat went from 18% to 10%. This is just trt in normal range. The stuff works. Edited: total, not free test levels. 800 free would be nuts
Damn, 35 and taking TRT? I'm 39 and not taking trt. I'm squatting 425lb, deadlift 500lb, bench 325. But I been almost nonstop exercising since the military.
Excellent! Thank you for shedding light on natty vs. not natty. I started weight training at 13. I’m 45 now and continue to learn, especially from your channel. Ive been natty my whole life. In my early to mid 30’s I was my strongest squatting 300x10 and benching 285 for a 1RM. Personally, I’ve trained all of the rep ranges through a 12-week periodization program. I’ve typically only have trained my body parts once a week. I think I’ll try training them twice a week with a little lower intensity and see if I can get back up to my old numbers, although, I don’t have much hope. I think the greatest takeaway is that there’s no magic program due to our bodies always trying to adapt.
For me I’ve seen the best results from increasing frequency. I only lift three times a week but I’ve played with variations and volume so I can squat and deadlift three times every two weeks and press every session. This took a lot of tweaking and self regulation. I picture my program as these overlapping circles of volume and I can’t go too hard on any given day.
M1 Pwr clean Back squat Incline bench W1 Pwr snatch Clean deadlift Strict OHP F1 Jerk Snatch deadlift Bench M2 Pwr clean Back Squat Incline bench W2 Pwr snatch Front squat Strict OHP F2 Jerk Deadlift Bench Generally move fast, move heavy then press. I will often superset the pressing motions with some sort of row. Pretty basic progressions. Lots of triples on the OLY movements. 10s on the SBD. Worked my way to singles over 16 weeks. For context I used the program as an off-season peak for a supertotal. I generally give strongman movements a break during the winter. I love log and stones and stuff but find winter is a good time for some variety.
To answer your question at the end, a recent change that has worked well for me in terms of "shocking" myself out of plateaus in both size and strength is doing 6-8 week cycles of 5x20 on front squat, incline bench, RDL and OHP on their respective days, keeping the weight just light enough for about 1-2 RIR. I need a diaper change at the end of each workout. Let's just say that watching you squat 185x50 in a previous video not just how absurdly strong you are, Bromley, but also how mentally resilient you are.
I recently discovered this channel because Helms mentioned you. Being a big fan of the Iron Culture podcast, this channel is an absolute goldmine! Nuanced thought, lifting history and applicable advice, all packaged in Well-produced videos. Thanks for doing this!
This was an excellent video Bromley! Very detailed and well argued on all fronts. The prominence of drug use in gym culture you presented here is quite eye-opening , and really puts much of our current culture into context.
My best gains are when I accidentally planned 2-3 times per week per body part. I had a “bro split” I made 6 day split where the focus of each day was something like this: Quads, chest, arms, hammies and glutes, shoulders, back. I didn’t realize why, but my triceps, back, biceps, and glutes were huge. Everything else struggled. Well, those were the body parts that saw 2-3x per week of training. Everything else was only hit once a week. 😂 100% natural btw, never had a chance to try it or I might have in the past.
I did a split similar but 3 on, one off. Chest, quads, back, rest, triceps, snatch grip deadlifts/post chain, biceps, rest repeat. Triceps day consisted of heavy cg floor presses or cg bench so chest was hit as well. Bicep day always started off with dead hang chins so my upper back got hit then I did the basic curl stuff. I sprinkled in lateral variations on chest day and tricep days and rear delts on upper back and bicep days. Might go back to that once it gets hot as I train in garage. Quick sessions. Bulgarians or lunges after my snatch grip DL variation so quads got hit as well. Leg curls before squats on quad day. Chest day is always an incline, flat variation and end with v bar dips so triceps get hit. Upper back always starts with dead hang neutral chins then supported rows, if up to it maybe some empty bar poundstone curls for xtra bicep work. Loaded carries occasionally at the end of squat or deadlift day for the yoke. Natty as well at 45
I have been riding on the gains of a 3x week Full Body approach for a while now (really enjoy the meals I need before the resulting 2hr workout to properly carbload too :D.) I love how I can modulate the body part or part thereof focus by playing with order, repetition and rep range. Hurray.
You just disprove this video. No roided powerlifter or Bodybuilder trains like that. They split everything up. Bro split or PPL typically. Or some variation. Most people that do fullbody are straight up natty and have jobs. Unlike these clowns online. This is just more justification for roiders ruining lifting
Bro I do this. Chest tris and shoulders 3 days, back and biceps on the other 3. Legs on back day. I do too much volume for core I used to do core but simply don’t have time anymore.
I’ve been training naturally for 15+ years. I’m an army veteran of 8 years, I’ve competed in both an NPC and OCB show where I won 5th place medals in my classic physique category. Doing a show with enhanced guys and doing a show with all my natural guys didn’t make a difference in my placing. It showed me what work and dedication can begin to get you if you stay committed to it. I performed exceptional next to enhanced guys and it was challenging to beat all natural guys on my kind of level as well. So consider that every show is different but every choice you make will always be up to your ability to build self love and mental fortitude for the work and the journey. I still train today and I’m working to become a better boxer now and I look every bit as young in my 30s as I did in my 20s… STAY NATURAL UNLESS YOU CAN HONESTLY SAY YOURE CLOSE TO A REAL BREAKTHROUGH ON THAT KIND OF LEVEL and if you do CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR FIRST. Much love everyone.
I did way better as a natural, I was on the top of my game but I struggled way more enhanced. When everyone is natural there's as much leveled playfield as you can gen, when we talk enhanced some people are willing to really push it and some try to stay in the safe zone, a bit above TRT if possible and results can and will differ accordingly.
When I talked to one of Boris Sheiko's assistant coaches many years back, he said the Russians quantified the benefit of lifters using PEDs vs those who do not (for highly trained athletes). They arrived at a figure that was approximately 15%. That's 15% on your total if you are highly trained natty vs. on gear. If you total 1500 pounds natural, you'll be ballpark 1725 with gear. Anecdotally, from my experience (20+ competitive), this seems pretty accurate. It's the difference from an Elite powerlifter to an international elite or world ranked lifter.
I stalled on Madcows 5x5 with only a 245 bench. One day I said screw this stupid math crap and just started working hard. In just 6 weeks I added 40lbs to my bench. I benched hard, heavy and frequently. It makes sense a lot of these programs were written by enhanced lifters because I didn’t make gains for shit on these “intermediate programs”.
I’ve never liked the idea of a 5x5 unless it’s for squat or deadlift. And with deadlifts I still prefer warming up and doing 3x3’s because deads are taxing. When I squat 5x5’s I usually lower the weight after my first set and continually lower it by small increments. Math crap will never get you stronger really. You have to use math crap to determine what kind of hard work you’re able to do. That means recording your lifts and tracking your strength.
I kinda like to warm up to a set of 3 reps for squat or deadlift, then do sets of hopefully 5 around a weight I should be able to do for 5 in my head and track my lifts for that day.
A lot of good info and perspective here. For me, through the past 20 years Ive found not training to failure, and rather training around RPE 7 for both size and strength is far far more effective. I personally cannot agree that natural lifters should train their sets to failure... whereas I believe enhanced, you can and should train to failure occassionally. If and when I go off the natty train, will be interesting to see how my training can change and be effective for gains
All through my 20's I was an overtrain-and-crash natty lifter, because I did try to go to the gym super frequently and push myself hard and tried some dumb stuff. There were some results, but I've been able to dial that stuff back in the past few years and go down the route of calisthenics, bands work, cycling. I'm probably undertraining now - I might be hitting something like 1.5 times a week, with a lot of "just do a little warmup" sessions and then one bigger one - but it's in a relatively healthy place, where I'm not pummeling myself with fatigue and I can focus on other parts of life.
I wrestled when i was young and have always worked out well. I have struggled to bulk my entire life, for me its a struggle to eat enough. I have been tempted to go on a cycle many times, but always remember why I started in the first place, it was never about getting big to me, it was about bringing out the best im capable of. I dont mind steroid use as long as you’re honest about it, but im looking to test and craft the body i was born with, and have learned to accept i wont ever be able to hit 200 lbs (my original goal weight). Im happy fluctuating between 170-180 while staying lean, and i was the scrawny guy competing at 133 when i was 16. Embrace what feels healthy
Bro splits do work, I added 25kgs of muscle over 10 years, I went from 55kgs to 80kgs @ 9% bodyfat. I don't do them anymore but I wouldn't say training with more volume added that much size to my frame, mostly just strength. I'm a powerlifter now though. Also, my legs aren't small due to genetics but I've never spent a lot of time on them so that weight is mostly on my upperbody as I do bench-only powerlifting. Luckily with genetics though my body looks fairly balanced. I've now been training 17 years with no drugs and will never take. I'm 5'8 at currently 98kgs @ 20% BF with 18 inch arms.
I would totally believe that being enhanced with just test base would give you a 10-20% strength and size increase. But ain't many just running that these days - we got designer stuff now that implodes strength with very little mass increase you can take in addition to just the test.
The 15% strength increases is at a given weight. Obviously the main benefit is weight gain and gaining muscle will massively increase you strength in the long run. I'm like 3x stronger now lol. But the 15% is if I was the exact same size (after a much longer training period as a natty) then my enhanced body would still be 15% stronger with identical muscle mass
Been natural through my whole journey. 220 lb weight loss from almost 400 to 150 and now I am up around 183. Been about 4 years and I’ve noticed what you have said is very true. Plateaus come very frequent and now with your information I am going to train a bit differently. You’ve earned yourself a sub for being a true fitness connoisseurs, thank you buddy ❤
@@dreamdiction well I basically went from drinking almost a 12 pack of Mountain Dew per day, as well as eating absolutely horribly. The end of 2018 I was like 400. I am assuming I was I taking just from that an absolutely incredible amount I don’t even know but it was bad. I then started my weight loss journey with 0 knowledge which was a stupid mistake. I barely ate anything and completely stayed away from any kind of sugar or carbs completely because of the things I read in the internet and it really worked. I was around 250 at this point and I still did not workout at all and I lost all that within a few months because I was literally eating like nothing. I went down to around 200 and I started feeling like shit completely, and at this point we are at the 6-8 month range. I at this point developed body dysmorphia and I think an eating disorder because of the fact that food in my mind was the devil so I ate just enough to get by. Hitting around the 1 year mark I was at 152 lbs and I felt HORRIBLE! I then decided that now was the time to start working out and eating food again since I knew that I had run out of energy completely and I looked like I had no muscle but fat still so it was horrible to even look in a mirror. So for the first year of working out I watched some but not a ton of videos and did mostly reading and watching people with no guidance so my beginning was very skewed. I got muscle but could not gain weight for anything and I ended up hitting a plateau from my newbie gains. I then in my second year did a lot more research and found people like daddy Noel and Sean N and then started to realize the benefits of eating and being okay with myself and trusting the process. I recommend to anyone starting the journey that I took to use your weight to your advantage and train hard, study hard and do it the right way because if I had I would’ve been an absolute friggen unit by now haha. Anyways here we are in 2023 and today I have been trying to main gain and I am sitting at 185 lean muscle. I will continue to workout for the rest of my life and I will take myself to the absolute limit naturally. I appreciate all who read this whole thing as I am a living example of the downside of self image and remember you can do ANYThING you set your mind too. I love every one of the kings out there looking out for himself, maybe I will start a channel just to talk with people about there journey and men’s positive mental health. Have a great day everyone and much love ❤️
@@landonconverse7995 Thanks, all I would add to what you have said is that muscle only re-grows while you are asleep so getting a full eight hours of good quality deep sleep every night is ideal for building muscle.
I never used peds but it’s pretty cool what people can accomplish when they throw health on the backburner. I kinda look at the enhanced like stuntmen. I ain’t willing to but I wanna see it.
Dr. Mike's take on Greg Nuckols' research is actually a little off. He is comparing, for example, the strength of a 100KG natty lifter to that of a 100KG enhanced lifter and noting the difference between the two is somewhere around 10%. Now, that is not telling us what will happen to the strength levels of that 100KG natty guy after that guy himself goes on gear. PEDs not only help in adding mass and strength, they also help in the reduction of body fat. In other words, that 100KG natty guy could stay at 100KG with significant added strength and size. I would guess that he would make a lot more than ten percent gains.
Solid video. Glad you mentioned how strength training can aide in hypertrophy. I decided to give a pyramid set a try and found that It boosted my 12 rep max on OHP from 20kg to 25kg after months of stagnation. Overall I think that the take away here is that natty's should train smarter AND harder.
Around 1-in 10 Gym members here in the UK use Peds... From my personal experience my old Gym friends who took them no longer train due to health issues (from Peds) while I'm still training(drug free)... It's sad to see them now...
Thank you for being the voice of reason on these topics. So few people are honest about this while still bring reasonable about the huge progression natural lifters can have.
The difference between tested and untested is immense for powerlifting. I refuse to go to drug tested meets anymore, went to one and almost fell asleep during the bench press.
Ive been lifting natty for 30 yrs!! Yes 30 yrs employing progressive resistance throughout most of it. It is pretty easy to master how to get/stay lean however were fairly limited in size compared to juicers. Strength wise lower body movements I find we can be close to the juice community but benching we cant touch them....
People keep on ignoring the fact the people who take steroids can skip all the hard years of hitting and breaking through plateaus that naturals have to go through. They can basically sprint to their natural limit within a period of a year or two. Considering the vast majority of natural lifters will never hit their genetic potential this is the largest benefit of steroids for the average user.
@AlexanderBromley basically yes but no I would argue that a noob that takes gear with a good training and diat would look pretty good in a year but not better than what he would achieve by 3 years of natural good training I just experience it by two brothers the one natural for 5 year and his bro that got him in less than 2 years on gear
I have no issue at all with people using. It’s when they try and fool People with “I am all natural” They still are insanely dedicated and it takes a huge amount of work. Just don’t try and say it’s natural. I hate that
If they want to lie and live in a fool’s paradise that’s fine too. But if they want to take peoples money and promise the same results as natty yeah then it’s straight up fraud
*on the internet* Gear using friend: you don't have to tell us you're natty, we can tell Me: cope harder committing felonies to be slightly above average at a hobby *IRL* Gear using friend: dude that's cool that you decided to stay natty, you're strong af Me: I'm just trying to be big and strong like you fam
People who take significant amounts of steroids to look good, their outside bodies might seem muscular and fit but that does not equate to health, health is mainly determined by how well your organs are functioning and the balancing of your blood chemicals. What heavy steroid users do is sacrifice the health of their organs for the aesthetics of their physique.
I started full body workout cycle with three days a week with every workout have the big three started to brine out and changed it to two days a week and so far it’s been working better the strength I started out with has improved and I keep getting stronger
i tried steroids, and realized i could still grow without being as consistent as i was natty. that led to all kinds of issues long term though, and i was overall worse off for it. now im natty, and the only positive i recieved from the experience was the understanding that if im consistent, and i want to train as hard is i like to, i have to do less sets. i potentially screwed my health listening to people hype up PEDs and high volume work, when i could have been healthier, stronger, and have a better physique if id just learned to lower the volume and manage my recovery. dont be stupid like me.
If these drugs are so ineffective, why would anyone take them? It seems illogical that people risk their health for such a small effect. if you take this and apply it to a sport like Olympic weightlifting, you might notice that someone like Ilya was able to snatch 190, but after he tested positive, he only snatched 160. That’s a very significant difference. So I question the methodology being used when people claim that steroids have a small effect.
I have been a novice bb for years. I recently started oly lifts and focusing on strength and speed. I’m 40 tho and your “ big dreams and bad genes” comment explains my entire life. Love it!
Great editing. Feels like a documentary. Reminds me of the ZT MPMD team up & Josh Brett Videos. The memes were fun too. I appreciated the audio clip from The Office
My only problem with steroids, is that users give advice for lifting that won't necessarily apply to natty lifters. On the juice you can go to the gym and go hard everyday. You can't do that natty, you will be injured going everyday doing 100s of reps.
Lol based on all of the people you didn't poll? Either way, you have no idea what someone can look like without drugs. There are tribe members in sub Saharan Africa who wouldnt pass a natty or not. You all are guessing (poorly) and, in the face of no real information, the gaps get filled with insecurity and ego.
@@AlexanderBromley No clue where the poll was done, but certainly doesn't express my views. Of course you need to workout to gain muscles, but it's ridiculous to think that those gains can be gained naturally, especially in as short time frame. "There are tribe members in sub Saharan Africa who wouldnt pass a natty or not. " Name one, Whenever I look at "tribe members" in actual natural environment they all look like bunch of skinny fat people.
Maik Wiedenbach was an Olympic swimmer for Germany. He has some stories about dealers, when the wall came down, going from shoe boxes of D-bol to rooms filled with boxes of D-bol, T-bol, Test & others. There was so much that they couldn't possibly sell it ("I'll give you 50 instead of 10, for the same price, and I'll throw in 200 T-bols for nothing!"). Later, he was a bodybuilder & "fitness model", so he sure knows his PEDs. Even he says that "strength training has gone from a training culture to a drug culture".
Im 35, I was natty going on about 2 years, didn't see much gains nor a lot of strength buildup (and this was going to the gym 4 to 5 times a week). Decided to jump into small dosages of test and an estrogen blocker, and I have to say, my pumps jumped up like no other. It was like the missing piece to a puzzle. Not encouraging supplement use, but I'm pretty sure it wayy easier for younger people to stay natty.
@@HerbanMagi Go to T test and if you score low then you will get permission to legally buy it. IF you have normal or higher than normal T... Well... You can always go to weightloss journey to artificially drop your T levels to the bottom.
The things that got my natty gains moving many years ago was moving to short full-bodied workouts of 5-8 exercises twice a week and these exercises could be different. The other major difference was cycling my training intensity. So many guys train flat out all the time and it doesn't work for nattys. The book Brawn, opened my eyes to these ideas and got me quite far before I decided to dabble in the dark side but I still found I needed the cycling intensity with short abbreviated workouts. Although fluff work ie throw in some light curls etc for high reps actually worked. In a natty state it would be a waste of time and I would be better just using my energy to hit heavy compound exercises like bb rows and they would do more for arms than a couple of pump sets of curls would.
As a natural training tactics matter so much more. Most people jump on gear because they simply don’t know how to get past the plateaus. It seems like you really learned how to train first before dabbling.
@robertquinlan8063 bru, most don't even have a basic strength level before starting gear. Most commercial gyms you rarely see someone squatting or benching 2 plates aside drug free even after a reasonable amount of time training. That shows you they don't know how to train. The recommended Drug free standards to reach or get close to is 3 plates on the bench, 4 on the Squat, 5 on deads. I have noticed some guys can reach the deadlift mark but not the Squat and vice versa, I think it's a genetic thing. I think if you can get within 10% of those marks, you're doing well and probably stand out as one of the strongest in most commercial gyms. If you walked into a powerlifting gym you'd probably be humbled quickly though.
@@dansmith9724 yes for sure. But if they want to look aesthetic faster they jump on and don’t care about strength. Though I think naturally you do eventually have to become stronger for more gains.
Consistency is a HUGE HUGE part. I'm 48 yo truck driver, been lifting since '92, if I spend more than 8-9 days away from the gym I need a minimum of 2 workouts just to begin to see or feel anything resembling a pump or a result. And I micro dose test during weeks away from the iron
@Ryan83728 I take test regularly, I increase the loading to approx 200 mg per week while I'm working out and down to approx 100 mg when I'm away for any period of time
Awesome video sir, you really narrowed down the science of P.E.D. usage and natural lifting to a T. I'm going to implement these suggested training ideas to my splits. 11/10🏆
How is it still hard work when you are on gear? I mean compare two dads, one on normal TRT for his age and one is not. You know one of them is walking in feeling like 25 again. - You need less gym days - Less work during the workouts - You have more energy while doing the workouts both mentally and more glycogen in the muscle "It's just hard work" Gymbro who forgot what fatigue feels like after his cycle became more like a straight line.
Because, if you're doing it right, you're taking advantage of the elevated MRV to do more work than you could have otherwise. I'm not speaking for the typical corporate gym tool who just wants to get beach ready. Competitors, those who want to win, absolutely abuse their bodies. You said it, more energy and more glycogen; that means you have the capacity to red-line it farther, even when you're in the shittiest part of your powerlifting prep or a depleted bodybuilder who is peaking for a show on 1200 calories a day.
I'm a 185lb natty whos been training for a bit over a year and is obsessed with watching 100s of hours of videos on strength and muscle gain. I train very hard 2-3 hours a day (think I tore my bicep though), eat more than enough, but my gains/and muscle/weight gain have slowed to a crawl. I know I'll continue to progress very slowly for the next however many years it just kinda sucks knowing I could skip yearrssss of training hoping on
@@WH-sz3bh I wishhh. paid out of pocket for a physical therapist and looked into mri/ultrasounds but they're too expensive for me without insurance let alone surgery... Just gotta deal with it now. Lost significant size in my left arm trying to baby it the past couple months
@@shycreation9418 Look into getting medicaid. Once you're on it you can get the surgery. I had it last year and it can save your arm. I think it's worth going into debt for. Your window for doing the surgery isn't that big. You can do it later, but it just gets harder due to scarring and tissue change.
I feel like being natural is the most important part of my fitness journey. I mainly train to push my limits and see what my body can achieve just by eating and training. Plus being healthy is a really big bonus, so it's a win win situation :)
Strength day (legs) Technique day (full body) Power day (torso, either horizontal, or vertical, never both) Power day (legs, sometimes overhead included) Technique day (full body) Strength day (torso, again same plane) Rest (Saturday) It works for me. I basically am training the shoulder girdle and lower body daily either directly or inadvertently, esp since I picked up clubbells, my shoulders have never been happier being mobilized, even strengthened, daily. I train in waves like a restart week, a builder week, another builder week, a peak week, and grounding week, and then a deload week before I "restart,
Discovered you a couple of weeks ago and you have become my favourite lifting channel. Impartial, evidence based approach, explained intelligently in an engaging way with clarity. Thank you for all you do.
I was wondering when we were going to hear from a real authority on the effectiveness of anabolics! As a non-serious lifter who has never used PEDs, I'm also interested to hear your take on the 'human genetic limit' that you're 4 standard deviations away from.
@@AlexanderBromley And blasting gear for 20 years doesn't make you an authority on the subject. Especially when you still look like a dyel manlet. That would be the equivalent of a heroin addict thinking he's an expert on chemistry. Please stop pretending like you aren't completely biased on this subject
Yes they are, you can literally get almost twice as strong, and twice as big with them, as if training natural. In most sports, you have no chance to reach top level in pro competition, without doping, that's just facts.
Literally almost twice as strong.... why are you making up numbers and acting like you have experience? There's a whole spot in the video comparing natty and geared records, including my numbers before and after. 800lb pullers wouldn't be stuck at 400 without gear. Steroids could not exist and you still need 1 in 1000 genetics to hang at the top. Blast all the gear you want, you ain't touching their heels.
@@AlexanderBromley Look at Pictures, and compare body composition, weight etc of top guys of their Sport, like Hafthor and many others, he became literally almost twice what he was pre roids, and a complete different human, like many others, it's just night and day. There's few people who bench 150+ kg natty, and theres few people who bench 300+ on gear. You will find more guys deadlifting 200+ natural, than 400+ on gear, yes, and I said "almost", and that's simply true, roids are THE GAMECHANGER and THE MOST CRUCIAL FACTOR and make worlds of difference in performance, strength, muscle building. Has nothing to do with that some tards don't know how to use gear properly, or don't know how to train and eat properly, or that some have a poor foundation. You will never be Mr Olympia or Worlds strongest man, or even be remotely close or in the same sphere without roids, you won't even win a "natural bodybuilding" competition without roids, that's just reality.
Natural, do full body 2 or 3x a week, mostly 2. It's been incredibly hard for me to recover and make progress because I work as a climber for a tree service M-F, and I'm toasted from work on the weekdays, leg and arm inflammation, fatigued back, etc
Ayeee, I'm a climber too (a beginner that probably doesn't climb as often but still). Recently started a 5/3/1 program and probably have to cut out so much accessory work because I can never seem to eat enough between that and climbing, dragging brush and carrying logs all day. I need to start working on my cardio again too because it's starting to get harder lol
That is WAAY too much, imho. Unless you train with low intensity? I say this only because it was the same for me, i was overtraining for the first 15-20 years of my fitness journey. Sometimes less is more and we need to use our discipline to stay OUT of the gym and use our time and resources for smart recovery instead. Maybe try hitting the muscles once per week but with higher intensity and low volume for a little while and see if the results get better?
The natty or not discourse is exhausting and in most cases pointless. My rule of thumb is if someone is trying to sell you something and using their physique as marketing, just assume they are using PEDs. Good lifting advice is like good science, repeated by multiple reputable sources, independently verifiable and doesn't claim to be generalizable to every case.
one friend of mine BLOWED UP in size and strength with only 300 test 200 primo for 12 weeks, his first contact with roids, he already looked amazing as a natty but there was a big change in his size and strength from the roids
I respect Bromley but this vid felt like cope to me, I have seen individuals in various gym who dont know shit, do shitty half reps for about and hour (some of them having more than 50 years old) and casually leaves the gym being the most freaky jacked dude and I have to beleive that was just 15% drug enhancement and otherwise they would still rock 85% of that WITH JUST ONE EFFING HOUR OF EFFING SHITTY TRAINING. I'm seriously trying not to rant but io cant shake the feeling of being treated as a stupid here.
It is cope. They can definitely make more of a difference than 10%. And most of the "evidence" he had to back up his claim were personal anecdotes or opinions. As for his own personal experience with how much they affected his lifts, there were many factors involved, not just PED's. And even then, he did not mention what types of PED's taken, or in what dosages.
LMAO Ronnie was on steroids before he got super big when he went on GH and Insulin AS WELL as steroids in an interview he said "i was on skittles but not THOSE skittles".
If steroids dont give you a massive boost and help you push further than natural limits, why would you take them. They are a game changer,. Bodybuilders/ strongmen ect wouldnt take them otherwise
Survivorship bias. You are looking at the outliers who get massive gains and ignore the thousands of nobodies in commercial gyms who blend into the crowds... Most people on roids are under 200 pounds, you wouldn't even look twice.
@@amazin7006 yes some dont respond to it. But my point still stands. Just cos it dosnt work for some dosent change the fact that its a game changing drug. Theres a reason we call them enhanced. So if steroids dont turn you into a beast (if you respond to it cos for some reason i have to specify that cos you are all idiots) then why would body builders use them.
@@Ojthemighty Who the fuck said they don't make you bigger? You are responding to a comment nobody ever made in this entire video. Go rewatch from 10:50 and try again
I love this video. I have been working out for a while and only have gotten really serious about it in the last few months. I have already plateaued on my squats, although my bench and deadlift are still going up. I have gone to different forums and asked different people what I could do to make my squat go up, and I've been getting an alarming amount of people telling me to "jump on gear, bro." I'm only 5'7" and have been told by some coaches who casually watch me as I work out at my college Athletic Center that I'm "built for running," which I agree. Putting on any muscle takes a lot of work and food, but I've always had great endurance when doing cardio. Those gym bros who tell me to jump on gear are astonished when I tell them I don't want to. It's not because I'm taking the "higher path in life" or anything. When I get older, I probably will go on TRT, but I don't see the point right now. I suspect my body won't react well to it, and I don't want to risk destroying my body's hormones just to up some numbers on a lift. As I said, it's terrifying that many guys think gear is a super serum that makes anyone into Arnold or Ronnie-level freaks of nature. As Tom Platz once said, "Steroids don't turn Volkswagens into Ferraris".
For natty lifter intensity is most important factor, everything else is secondary. Intensity + calories will get you gains. Try to have spotter and do somewhere around 5 reps per set in bench & take it to failure. Last rep of last set is good to be forced with assistant. This is what have worked for me. I have trained 5 years mostly calisthenics & noticed everytime my intensity drops i platoon.
I’m a lifetime natural BB, never tried herbals, test boosters ect. Many people think I’m on gear. I don’t have especially high test or free test either. I do have rather high estrogen. I’ve been training for 9 years. Most progress I have made is with a full body 3x per week split, every 5th week a deload with 72 hour water fast. Rep ranges vary from 6-30. Diet is crucial. I am 34 and stay around 10-14% Bf year round. Gain probably an pound or two of muscle a year at this point. I find bulking in excess of 500cals pointless as when I get lean the muscle goes with it.
The thing that sticks out to me the most in the online community is that people have super low expectations of natty physiques and anyone who achieves a high level automatically gets accusations.
I think its a reaction the over prevalence of fake nattys, We've gone too far now and think that any high level physique is not naturally obtainable when the truth is that that the top 0.1 percent can achieve that 28 FFMI, what I look for in determining who is fake or not has to do with timescale, an ELITE natural takes decades to reach that point when you have young lifters reaching 28FFMi in 4 years by the time they are 21 its extremely unlikely they are lifetime natty, but freaks DO exist.
The last 3 chapters were very helpful for me, as I am still workshopping how exactly progressive overload works. And I love how at the very end of the video, they included the part where he reaches to rip the mic off and be like “finally I’m done with this crap.”😅I subscribed, keep it up!
Statement: "Tested powerlifters in the US don't cheat." Source: "Trust me bro, you can smell it in the air bro, please bro, they told me they are clean bro!"
Americans always first to claim natty, hold all the records in powerlifting then complain about competing Vs countries without testing in the IPF, really gets the noggin joggin doesn't it..
@@SUPER8ALTERN8 It's literally just cold war era propaganda. US at the time was trying to besmirch the soviet union as much as possible, so they convinced the public that americans are proud and noble and natty whilst the dirty soviets were all drug cheats.
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Make a tier list vid
I want the thumbnail
Hey Alex, my fellow big guy.
Do you have advice for powerlifting for guys who also have injuries. I'm in my 30's, decided to lose weight during covid 495lbs to now 265lbs, still a little chubby but have been powerlifting for a little over a year.
I herniated my L4/L5 when I was a diesel mechanic and that's why my weight blew up.
I've tweaked my back 2 times in the past year lifting but I've made progress without injury for a few months now. I can 5x3 405lb DL and 5x3 455lb squat.
PR deadlift is 425 because I'm afraid of hurting my back, but I want to be able to hit 500lbs.
Is that possible? I'm a big guy, big boned, wrestler/football in HS. Genetically I think I could do it.
But with 2 kids and a full time job I'm scared to push my lift and risk injuring myself and not being able to work.
Help me out here brother
@@DadGetsFit Yes. His advice is going to be to take drugs. Take PED's. That's what his advice is gunna be. Its like you didn't even watch the video lol. There is a reason why he himself juices after all.
STEROID USERS are WEAK FAKES!
Stay natural buddy!
"You'll lift nothing, and be happy."
True dystopian nightmare
Liftopian
@@drinkinouttacups2665 Rightwing deadlift squad?
Eat insects for protein crew
Drink the bug shake, live in the bod pod
@@BuJammy LOL.
"If you have big dreams and bad genes, you're in the right place..."
This resonated with me. Subscribed.
That was clever
''...non-lifting globalists'' 1:39
is deep too.
Most people don't have bad genes they just lift for a few months or years and never tap anything close to their potential
I have big Dreams and good genes is it good ?
@@peamutbubbertrue, most people don’t have the dedication to stick with working out for over a year or two.. most don’t even make it 6 months
I remember being 13 and believing when Ronnie Coleman said he was natural because he worked hard and seemed honest
Ouch
Probably believed in Santa too huh
easy to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled.
@@Cosmicmorales 70% of 100% of the time that makes no sense
@@nolesy34the meaning behind the statement is super basic? Ur the one who's overcomplicating it and can't understand.
@@Cosmicmorales of course its an easy statement.. but fools rush in, so if i rushed in to understand, better the devil i would know
The lengths some roid users go to to excuse and minimize the effects of roids is sad.
@in the wrong lol okay Guenievre_
Its always a laugh, but all the roid influecners and youtubers gotta keep the views up and money coming in. So they will never tell you the truth.
Yep. Even Dr. Mike, who bases his brand on being a good source of objective fitness information based on the current body of scientific data, is on roids and seems to minimize their effect on him every chance he gets. I think probably the only time he got real was when he announced his retirement from bodybuilding and why he was doing it.
@@PatientZERO100 I remember him talking very badly about roids, especially when it came to his mental health
Dr Mike is a hack, stop drinking the kool aid. Watch his ridiculous video about how sleep > steroids. its total cope. Even his mental health comments come across as him trying very hard to sound like a badass, very severe case of small man syndrome.
Bromley, I don't know if anyone has told you this yet, but whatever you're doing these days to take care of yourself is really working. You're looking sharper than ever and you can even see it down to how you're animating lately. I hope you're feeling as good as you look!
Really appreciate that, man. Credit goes to my wife.
@@AlexanderBromley 😉😏 lol
@@AlexanderBromley Is her name TRT by any chance ? 😅😅😅
Gay and this guy is a cheater so it doesn't matter what he says
@@darealberrygarcia gonna need some context there, chief.
"You'll lift nothing. And you'll be happy" 🤣
Beat me to it lol
Bugzzzzz shakes 😂😂😂
The great form reset 😂
World economic forum gotta love it
World Economic Steroids
Thank god people are talking realistically and honestly about this stuff now. I hope a lot more lifters can make informed decisions (either way) than we did in the 1980s.
I would take steroids if they didn't make you die young. But I want to live for a long as time
@@ralphwarom2514 Don't Ever Take Steroids
I was very badly informed so I never took steroids
@Mark Park The only cost is your time to get a proper education in endocrinology then you have nothing to lose but your ballz and a lot of money for regular check out at dr
The opposite is the case.
Comercial gyms are full of people doing steroids, it's crazy.
Amazing video, I can tell a ton of hard work went into this one!
I appreciate it! I came across one of Cody LeFevers shirts... "Have You Tried Trying?" and thought, "No, no I haven't"
This video feels like a culmination of your decades of experience as a coach, athlete and astute observer of the industry. So many excellent points, so well articulated and to the point. I'm glad you exist man!
Stay natty bros
Hell no lol
lmao
Nope
💯
As a natty is not easy. I got years under the belt. I see kids and old, lifting for one year and have a body of a 3 to 5 year lifting. They look bigger and won't lie better cuts or ripped than me. You can't sustain a 6 abs all year round naturally. No water or food all year round (yeah, right). Only on competition can you do that for a limited time. That is how u can see hoes the fake natty are. And if ur not natty, I understand u want all eyes on you. But don't say ur natty when ur not. Including movie stars with rice and broccoli formula.
Really good video. I’ve been training for 44 years. I grew up under Muscle and Fitness, Joe Weider and Arnold/Zane etc.. I didn’t know that 30 sets per body part was bs. I do now. Experience is beyond important. So many younger lifters think because they have been working out for six months and watched a few videos that they are experts. Nobody has all the answers, and training is nuanced (even if we wish it wasn’t) With that said. For those who are natural, consider the following.
1. Have a plan that is based on sound principles.
2. Get educated. I love the 6-30 reps for hypertrophy idea. While I don’t know exactly the numbers, common sense tells that 30 reps is a ton of time w/o fatigue.
3. Eat well. No matter your goals, food matters.
4. Recovery enough. The idea isn’t to train so hard, so often that you’re constantly fatigued. Rather it’s a balance.
5. Stick with movements that promote growth. A squat - deadlift - row - press - hinge work. They always have and always will.
6. Go slow, train long. While I can’t say I’ve never gotten injured, most of my career I’ve learned that slow progressions work.
7. Lastly, ask for help. Avoid the “I know everything” mantra.
Now, ask questions.
✍🏾✍🏾✍🏾✍🏾thAnk you
How important is protein in a diet? I understand it’s very important, but what’s your intake/day? Gram/pound ratio, I’m asking. I’m 220lbs, and 220 grams of protein @ about 16% bodyfat seems like an absurd amount of protein to continue to gain muscle tissue.
@@seanhokanson4115 obviiisly since you’re training you need protein to help the recovery process and to build muscle. There are general guidelines of 3/4 to a gram per pound of body weight. I think that while that may seem like a lot, it’s all part of your overall calorie consumption. I’d definitely spread it out over the course of a day. If you had 5-6 meals a day and snacks it isn’t as daunting. Stick with quality as well. Chicken - eggs - lean meats - a quality protein supplement if you need it. Finally, if you’re a little short, that won’t make a huge difference.
@@chattingwithshap8010 220 grams of protein spread over 6 meals would still be 36,6 grams per meal. Every day. These high numbers are indeed absurd and not sustainable for average people.
@@nothingEvil101 you’re right. But the person asking isn’t average and I didn’t say it needs to be 220. I said 3/4 to 1 gram. He is 220 and 16 percent body fat. That’s not even close to average. I didn’t want to write a super lengthy response. Getting enough protein is important for muscle growth and recovery, but it’s more of an Art than anything else. On those training days, especially harder ones it’s more necessary than on a day off or a recovery day or week. Plus, at 220 pounds getting 150 or so grams or so on certain days would be totally fine. Most people, even those who are intermediate lifters, and even some as advanced ones vary their calorie consumption regularly. But again, it’s important to see each person as unique, not cookie cutter.
When it can give a woman muscles bigger than most men who consistently workout, it absolutely is a super solider serum lmao
Those women also train consistently though to be fair. Most likely a lot more consitently and for a lot longer. Can't really compare female pros to dudes who have been working out for a couple years. It's not like the female pros are as big as the male pros.
@@onZampie Take a woman who has trained for 4 years and a man who trained for 2. The man will still be considerably stronger and have far more muscle mass than the woman who has trained longer. Steroids completely change that. Combined with the fact that roids tend to be more potent for women, the female in this scenario has the potential to be just as strong and have a more muscular frame than the man within a year if she was juicing and he wasn't. The bone density changes, the muscle mass increase, the muscle fiber hardening, etc that steroids give are underestimated pretty heavily.
@@jaysilvia1177 Exactly.
Even when it comes to men, Kumail Nanjiani was a 40-something wet noodle who became swole and shredded in months. It's not just about the end result but also the starting point and age.
Or anabolic steroids are doing the fuck work..yeah obviously ppl on steroids lift consistently but it’s way easier.
Appreciate your take. Started lifting religiously in school on thru my military career, but genetics have always been against me. Because of my bone structure, the terminally insecure have always marked me as an easy target, forcing me to learn fighting when I was still very young. When my father was diagnosed with Alz/Dim from agent orange exposure in Nam, I moved back to care for him so he could finish his final years in the comfort of his own home. Doing so put me in a bad place emotionally and I let myself go. I quit exercising & eating right. I shut myself off from the rest of my family, friends, the outside world. After 12 years, I finally started taking better care of myself and getting back to where I used to be....both mentally and physically. I had always thought (going as far back as school days) that a cycle would give me that boost to get me over the plateau/ to next level. But it wasn't until recently I remembered, that while I won't be winning any contests anytime soon, there is no replacement for hard work and sheer determination. Of course, the leaps in exercise/nutrition/supplement science don't hurt either.
Anecdotal: friend of mine (36 y/o) hopped on 200mg of test a week. Says the difference is huge, squat went 40-ish kg in a couple of months. He admits to training waaaay less hard. Since I heared that, I'm not buying any 'but we actually need to train HARDER' messages by the juiced community
I’ve been on trt (120mg) for 5 years, my squat has only gone up 68 kg. Your buddy is using a Supraphysiological amount and clearly an outlier unless he was squatting under 4/500 lbs.
@@jrwitherite12 to be fair, he was a little below 400. Same time: his bloodwork showed the levels of a twelve year old, so I understand his decision. His wife says he's much nicer to be around, so that's a W as well
@@tielvandenheuvel5168glad all is working out for your friend 💪
That's trt lmao
But yes agreed it matters
@@jrwitherite12 how are you? What are your maxes?
A huge POINT to remember and understand this is that this 10-15 percent in strenght gain is when lifters stay in the same weight class if the gain muscle the Steroid related strenght gainn effect can be much higher.
Yeah, in reality it's more like you'll double your numbers quite literally if you're pushing natural vs enhanced. The most major component of steroids and the like is the increased lean mass your body will grow and is able to sustain, which leads to immense increase both in strength and in size as well.
@@luka188 yea the strength gain can be huge. on the downside could lead to injure with your tendons not keeping up
Doubling your numbers is not accurate. However, your 10-15% statistic is. I used to compete at the international level and one of the russian coaches told me that he estimated about 15% strength increase from PEDs. That never left me because at that level, I was getting beat by about 10% and I was natty. I think the larger point is the recovery, the volume some of those guys can handle is insane and volume is the biggest driver of progress. You can still get stronger on PEDs with less work, but when you actually do more work, the results are astounding.
@@sandrost4243 So you mean to say that PED's will only increase your lift from say, 300 kilo deadlift to a 330 kilo deadlift? How do you think Hafthor deadlifsts 501 kilograms?
I already explained, you can quite literally double your numbers from using PED's versus staying natural, because of the extra lean mass your body can hold when using PED's, which is really what makes the difference and allows top level strength athletes to perform superhuman feats of strength.
PED's when in the same weight class probably doesn't make that much of a difference, however the point I make is, the true strength of these PED's is how it allows you to surpass the limits of what a human body is naturally able to do massively by increasing the lean mass which can be supported by your body due to the increased testosterone levels and also the growth hormone which allows muscles to grow far larger than they otherwise could.
When you remain in the same weight class, you basically only use the PED's to 10% of their effect at best.
What really makes the difference is how it allows people to become 180 kilograms while only at 10-15% body fat, carrying more than 150 kilograms of lean mass, which is absolutely ludicrous.
@@luka188 Okay I must have misunderstood your point, you are also including increased mass, i.e., putting on weight. I was indeed talking about staying in the same weight class and I was also talking about highly trained individuals, 15% is very accurate. But yes, if someone puts on 40 pounds of muscle, you could double your lifts. Apologies for misunderstanding you.
I genuinely think this is one of if not the best videos exploring this topic honestly from both sides of the community. Informative and well done!
I'm 39 and I exercise (not always consistently, have had up to 3 months off sometimes) since 15. Even before that I loved to do push-ups, pull-ups and other bodyweight exercises. I've also got into running sometimes, once I ran half marathon (by myself in the night). I have had about 3-4 cycles on steroids, all low doses, in my life. One of the bad sides of that might be, that I think my natural testosterone levels could have been higher now, should I have never used those (haven't really got bloodwork done, but my sex drive isn't at all what it once was). With that said, low levels of steroids have given me a lot of strength. On my 1st cycle, I was 19, exercising for 4 years already, and I had a plateau on the bench press, wouldn't move up from 105 kg for the last 3 months. Then I did a cycle on flat dose of 5 mg dbol per day, for 40 days. I was taking it every day with my breakfast. On the 40th day exactly my bench press increased to 135 kg. +30 kg in 40 days, I was shocked. 3 months later, without taking anything, my bench was still 135 kg, didn't lose any of that. In the light of my experience, I find it hard to believe, than anyone lifting heavy numbers can do that without PEDs. Even with the best genetics in the world, I don't see it possible to do more than 250 kg bench or over 350 squat or deadlift (or >150 kg overhead press). Even those numbers sound too high, except if you're not somehow >190 cm >170 kg monster natural freak...
Unless your like NFL offensive lineman build 6'4 300 pounds plus
Brian shaw ultra rare types but other than that ya I agree
@@taylorg8509Those NFL players use roids too.
Hell's yeah, dbol is amazing. Especially for the bench.
Steroids have been a game-changer in my fitness routine, providing the extra edge I needed to advance more rapidly. When used with careful planning and consideration for overall health, they can be a powerful tool for anyone serious about reaching their peak potential.
Test Enan is commonly used in hormone replacement therapy to address low testosterone levels, promoting muscle growth and improving overall well-being. Tren, on the other hand, greatly enhances muscle size and strength. Speeds up recovery from injuries as well.
Totally agree. Steroids helped me recover faster and maintain muscle mass, especially during intense training or after injury. It's amazing how they can support bone health as well, which is crucial for people with conditions like osteoporosis.
There’s no doubt to the benefits of steroids. Honestly, it has greatly impacted my life. It played a major role in achieving my desired physique. People should learn not to abuse these substances and act like they are all bad.
Hey everyone, I’m looking for reliable sources for both steroids and protein supplements. I know it’s crucial to be cautious with these, especially with steroids, so I want to make sure I’m getting them from trustworthy sources. For protein supplements, I’m also interested in recommendations for reputable brands. Any suggestions or advice on where to find safe and high quality options?
Jeremyproteins is the person you want. He's the most knowledgeable about muscle-building supplements that I know.
Personal anecdote: trained from 20-25. Went from 135 to 190 10-15% body fat. Best numbers were 315 bench, 425 squat, 505 deadlift, 225 overhead press.
At 35, went on trt. Total test at 800. 315 total before trt. After one year went from 185 to 205 lbs. Bench 385, squat 485, deadlift 575, overhead press 265, strict curl 135. Fat went from 18% to 10%.
This is just trt in normal range. The stuff works.
Edited: total, not free test levels. 800 free would be nuts
Did you continue to lift between 25-35?
@Funeral Director no. kids, work, building a business. I started back up about 6 months before trt
Damn, 35 and taking TRT? I'm 39 and not taking trt. I'm squatting 425lb, deadlift 500lb, bench 325. But I been almost nonstop exercising since the military.
@@jacobtaylor7506 yep. Had some tbi and couldn't recover from it. Tried for years beforehand.
That's literally too many numbers. Just eat chicken and lift heavier rock each week.
Excellent! Thank you for shedding light on natty vs. not natty. I started weight training at 13. I’m 45 now and continue to learn, especially from your channel. Ive been natty my whole life. In my early to mid 30’s I was my strongest squatting 300x10 and benching 285 for a 1RM. Personally, I’ve trained all of the rep ranges through a 12-week periodization program. I’ve typically only have trained my body parts once a week. I think I’ll try training them twice a week with a little lower intensity and see if I can get back up to my old numbers, although, I don’t have much hope. I think the greatest takeaway is that there’s no magic program due to our bodies always trying to adapt.
Phew, for a moment I thought you're talking about kg...
For me I’ve seen the best results from increasing frequency. I only lift three times a week but I’ve played with variations and volume so I can squat and deadlift three times every two weeks and press every session. This took a lot of tweaking and self regulation. I picture my program as these overlapping circles of volume and I can’t go too hard on any given day.
Very interesting. Would love to hear a bit more detail, if you wouldn't mind sharing.
M1
Pwr clean
Back squat
Incline bench
W1
Pwr snatch
Clean deadlift
Strict OHP
F1
Jerk
Snatch deadlift
Bench
M2
Pwr clean
Back Squat
Incline bench
W2
Pwr snatch
Front squat
Strict OHP
F2
Jerk
Deadlift
Bench
Generally move fast, move heavy then press. I will often superset the pressing motions with some sort of row.
Pretty basic progressions. Lots of triples on the OLY movements. 10s on the SBD. Worked my way to singles over 16 weeks.
For context I used the program as an off-season peak for a supertotal. I generally give strongman movements a break during the winter. I love log and stones and stuff but find winter is a good time for some variety.
Thanks man! Appreciate it.
I hope the title is satire. Because some steroids or peds are literally soldier super serum. They change your mentality, or exaggerate it negatively.
To answer your question at the end, a recent change that has worked well for me in terms of "shocking" myself out of plateaus in both size and strength is doing 6-8 week cycles of 5x20 on front squat, incline bench, RDL and OHP on their respective days, keeping the weight just light enough for about 1-2 RIR. I need a diaper change at the end of each workout.
Let's just say that watching you squat 185x50 in a previous video not just how absurdly strong you are, Bromley, but also how mentally resilient you are.
I recently discovered this channel because Helms mentioned you. Being a big fan of the Iron Culture podcast, this channel is an absolute goldmine! Nuanced thought, lifting history and applicable advice, all packaged in Well-produced videos. Thanks for doing this!
This was an excellent video Bromley! Very detailed and well argued on all fronts. The prominence of drug use in gym culture you presented here is quite eye-opening , and really puts much of our current culture into context.
Hi Alex, this was an excellent video. Thanks
Damn, Brom! You're really stepping up the effort. Can't imagine the time that went into this. Your ability to narrate is really showing. 🤘
My best gains are when I accidentally planned 2-3 times per week per body part. I had a “bro split” I made 6 day split where the focus of each day was something like this: Quads, chest, arms, hammies and glutes, shoulders, back.
I didn’t realize why, but my triceps, back, biceps, and glutes were huge. Everything else struggled. Well, those were the body parts that saw 2-3x per week of training. Everything else was only hit once a week. 😂 100% natural btw, never had a chance to try it or I might have in the past.
I did a split similar but 3 on, one off. Chest, quads, back, rest, triceps, snatch grip deadlifts/post chain, biceps, rest repeat. Triceps day consisted of heavy cg floor presses or cg bench so chest was hit as well. Bicep day always started off with dead hang chins so my upper back got hit then I did the basic curl stuff. I sprinkled in lateral variations on chest day and tricep days and rear delts on upper back and bicep days. Might go back to that once it gets hot as I train in garage. Quick sessions. Bulgarians or lunges after my snatch grip DL variation so quads got hit as well. Leg curls before squats on quad day. Chest day is always an incline, flat variation and end with v bar dips so triceps get hit. Upper back always starts with dead hang neutral chins then supported rows, if up to it maybe some empty bar poundstone curls for xtra bicep work. Loaded carries occasionally at the end of squat or deadlift day for the yoke. Natty as well at 45
I have been riding on the gains of a 3x week Full Body approach for a while now (really enjoy the meals I need before the resulting 2hr workout to properly carbload too :D.) I love how I can modulate the body part or part thereof focus by playing with order, repetition and rep range. Hurray.
You just disprove this video. No roided powerlifter or Bodybuilder trains like that. They split everything up. Bro split or PPL typically. Or some variation. Most people that do fullbody are straight up natty and have jobs. Unlike these clowns online. This is just more justification for roiders ruining lifting
@@3-dreticle826 what the heck are you even talking about how did he disprove it ?
Bro I do this. Chest tris and shoulders 3 days, back and biceps on the other 3. Legs on back day. I do too much volume for core I used to do core but simply don’t have time anymore.
I’ve been training naturally for 15+ years. I’m an army veteran of 8 years, I’ve competed in both an NPC and OCB show where I won 5th place medals in my classic physique category. Doing a show with enhanced guys and doing a show with all my natural guys didn’t make a difference in my placing. It showed me what work and dedication can begin to get you if you stay committed to it. I performed exceptional next to enhanced guys and it was challenging to beat all natural guys on my kind of level as well. So consider that every show is different but every choice you make will always be up to your ability to build self love and mental fortitude for the work and the journey. I still train today and I’m working to become a better boxer now and I look every bit as young in my 30s as I did in my 20s… STAY NATURAL UNLESS YOU CAN HONESTLY SAY YOURE CLOSE TO A REAL BREAKTHROUGH ON THAT KIND OF LEVEL and if you do CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR FIRST. Much love everyone.
Lies again? Killing yourself is not solution
I did way better as a natural, I was on the top of my game but I struggled way more enhanced. When everyone is natural there's as much leveled playfield as you can gen, when we talk enhanced some people are willing to really push it and some try to stay in the safe zone, a bit above TRT if possible and results can and will differ accordingly.
Except guys can easily get away with competing in natural competitions while on the juice.
When I talked to one of Boris Sheiko's assistant coaches many years back, he said the Russians quantified the benefit of lifters using PEDs vs those who do not (for highly trained athletes). They arrived at a figure that was approximately 15%. That's 15% on your total if you are highly trained natty vs. on gear. If you total 1500 pounds natural, you'll be ballpark 1725 with gear. Anecdotally, from my experience (20+ competitive), this seems pretty accurate. It's the difference from an Elite powerlifter to an international elite or world ranked lifter.
I stalled on Madcows 5x5 with only a 245 bench. One day I said screw this stupid math crap and just started working hard. In just 6 weeks I added 40lbs to my bench. I benched hard, heavy and frequently. It makes sense a lot of these programs were written by enhanced lifters because I didn’t make gains for shit on these “intermediate programs”.
I’ve never liked the idea of a 5x5 unless it’s for squat or deadlift. And with deadlifts I still prefer warming up and doing 3x3’s because deads are taxing. When I squat 5x5’s I usually lower the weight after my first set and continually lower it by small increments. Math crap will never get you stronger really. You have to use math crap to determine what kind of hard work you’re able to do. That means recording your lifts and tracking your strength.
I kinda like to warm up to a set of 3 reps for squat or deadlift, then do sets of hopefully 5 around a weight I should be able to do for 5 in my head and track my lifts for that day.
A lot of good info and perspective here. For me, through the past 20 years Ive found not training to failure, and rather training around RPE 7 for both size and strength is far far more effective. I personally cannot agree that natural lifters should train their sets to failure... whereas I believe enhanced, you can and should train to failure occassionally. If and when I go off the natty train, will be interesting to see how my training can change and be effective for gains
All through my 20's I was an overtrain-and-crash natty lifter, because I did try to go to the gym super frequently and push myself hard and tried some dumb stuff. There were some results, but I've been able to dial that stuff back in the past few years and go down the route of calisthenics, bands work, cycling. I'm probably undertraining now - I might be hitting something like 1.5 times a week, with a lot of "just do a little warmup" sessions and then one bigger one - but it's in a relatively healthy place, where I'm not pummeling myself with fatigue and I can focus on other parts of life.
0p😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊p
I wrestled when i was young and have always worked out well. I have struggled to bulk my entire life, for me its a struggle to eat enough. I have been tempted to go on a cycle many times, but always remember why I started in the first place, it was never about getting big to me, it was about bringing out the best im capable of. I dont mind steroid use as long as you’re honest about it, but im looking to test and craft the body i was born with, and have learned to accept i wont ever be able to hit 200 lbs (my original goal weight). Im happy fluctuating between 170-180 while staying lean, and i was the scrawny guy competing at 133 when i was 16. Embrace what feels healthy
I used to watch Bromley on 1.25 speed, looks like not anymore. Great quality video!
Bro splits do work, I added 25kgs of muscle over 10 years, I went from 55kgs to 80kgs @ 9% bodyfat. I don't do them anymore but I wouldn't say training with more volume added that much size to my frame, mostly just strength. I'm a powerlifter now though. Also, my legs aren't small due to genetics but I've never spent a lot of time on them so that weight is mostly on my upperbody as I do bench-only powerlifting. Luckily with genetics though my body looks fairly balanced. I've now been training 17 years with no drugs and will never take. I'm 5'8 at currently 98kgs @ 20% BF with 18 inch arms.
Bromley is still alive! All's right with the world again!
Your videos have improved so much in the last year. Loving it.
I would totally believe that being enhanced with just test base would give you a 10-20% strength and size increase. But ain't many just running that these days - we got designer stuff now that implodes strength with very little mass increase you can take in addition to just the test.
The 15% strength increases is at a given weight. Obviously the main benefit is weight gain and gaining muscle will massively increase you strength in the long run. I'm like 3x stronger now lol. But the 15% is if I was the exact same size (after a much longer training period as a natty) then my enhanced body would still be 15% stronger with identical muscle mass
Been natural through my whole journey. 220 lb weight loss from almost 400 to 150 and now I am up around 183. Been about 4 years and I’ve noticed what you have said is very true. Plateaus come very frequent and now with your information I am going to train a bit differently. You’ve earned yourself a sub for being a true fitness connoisseurs, thank you buddy ❤
Wow - you more than halved you body weight. How long did it take and how many calories were you eating per day?
@@dreamdiction well I basically went from drinking almost a 12 pack of Mountain Dew per day, as well as eating absolutely horribly. The end of 2018 I was like 400. I am assuming I was I taking just from that an absolutely incredible amount I don’t even know but it was bad. I then started my weight loss journey with 0 knowledge which was a stupid mistake. I barely ate anything and completely stayed away from any kind of sugar or carbs completely because of the things I read in the internet and it really worked. I was around 250 at this point and I still did not workout at all and I lost all that within a few months because I was literally eating like nothing. I went down to around 200 and I started feeling like shit completely, and at this point we are at the 6-8 month range. I at this point developed body dysmorphia and I think an eating disorder because of the fact that food in my mind was the devil so I ate just enough to get by. Hitting around the 1 year mark I was at 152 lbs and I felt HORRIBLE! I then decided that now was the time to start working out and eating food again since I knew that I had run out of energy completely and I looked like I had no muscle but fat still so it was horrible to even look in a mirror. So for the first year of working out I watched some but not a ton of videos and did mostly reading and watching people with no guidance so my beginning was very skewed. I got muscle but could not gain weight for anything and I ended up hitting a plateau from my newbie gains. I then in my second year did a lot more research and found people like daddy Noel and Sean N and then started to realize the benefits of eating and being okay with myself and trusting the process. I recommend to anyone starting the journey that I took to use your weight to your advantage and train hard, study hard and do it the right way because if I had I would’ve been an absolute friggen unit by now haha. Anyways here we are in 2023 and today I have been trying to main gain and I am sitting at 185 lean muscle. I will continue to workout for the rest of my life and I will take myself to the absolute limit naturally. I appreciate all who read this whole thing as I am a living example of the downside of self image and remember you can do ANYThING you set your mind too. I love every one of the kings out there looking out for himself, maybe I will start a channel just to talk with people about there journey and men’s positive mental health. Have a great day everyone and much love ❤️
@@landonconverse7995 Thanks, all I would add to what you have said is that muscle only re-grows while you are asleep so getting a full eight hours of good quality deep sleep every night is ideal for building muscle.
@@landonconverse7995Imagining drinking a 12 pack of Mountain Dew now, for me, makes me wanna puke lol. Congrats on the weight loss journey.
@@RexNicolaus yea it was a very dark 10 years, thanks buddy I appreciate you
The perspectives Bromley makes us consider about training philosophies and gym culture is second to none 💪
I never used peds but it’s pretty cool what people can accomplish when they throw health on the backburner. I kinda look at the enhanced like stuntmen. I ain’t willing to but I wanna see it.
Dr. Mike's take on Greg Nuckols' research is actually a little off. He is comparing, for example, the strength of a 100KG natty lifter to that of a 100KG enhanced lifter and noting the difference between the two is somewhere around 10%. Now, that is not telling us what will happen to the strength levels of that 100KG natty guy after that guy himself goes on gear.
PEDs not only help in adding mass and strength, they also help in the reduction of body fat. In other words, that 100KG natty guy could stay at 100KG with significant added strength and size. I would guess that he would make a lot more than ten percent gains.
Solid video. Glad you mentioned how strength training can aide in hypertrophy. I decided to give a pyramid set a try and found that It boosted my 12 rep max on OHP from 20kg to 25kg after months of stagnation.
Overall I think that the take away here is that natty's should train smarter AND harder.
Around 1-in 10 Gym members here in the UK use Peds...
From my personal experience my old Gym friends who took them no longer train due to health issues (from Peds) while I'm still training(drug free)...
It's sad to see them now...
Thank you for being the voice of reason on these topics. So few people are honest about this while still bring reasonable about the huge progression natural lifters can have.
no one says they can't progress. What he made is known as strawman fallacy.
@@Tespri Elaborate what you mean by that.
@@BobBobby-kt4sc google strawman
I'm a pro natty BB and I loved your intro lol
And I love that you're diving into the performance motivations and benefits
I juiced for a while. It's not worth all of the long-term health risks. I regret it so much. Stay natural. Just be the best version of you.
The difference between tested and untested is immense for powerlifting. I refuse to go to drug tested meets anymore, went to one and almost fell asleep during the bench press.
Why?
@@loungeroomlifting2223 tested meets have a neutered atmosphere
Ive been lifting natty for 30 yrs!! Yes 30 yrs employing progressive resistance throughout most of it. It is pretty easy to master how to get/stay lean however were fairly limited in size compared to juicers. Strength wise lower body movements I find we can be close to the juice community but benching we cant touch them....
People keep on ignoring the fact the people who take steroids can skip all the hard years of hitting and breaking through plateaus that naturals have to go through.
They can basically sprint to their natural limit within a period of a year or two. Considering the vast majority of natural lifters will never hit their genetic potential this is the largest benefit of steroids for the average user.
Thats entirely made up
@AlexanderBromley basically yes but no I would argue that a noob that takes gear with a good training and diat would look pretty good in a year but not better than what he would achieve by 3 years of natural good training I just experience it by two brothers the one natural for 5 year and his bro that got him in less than 2 years on gear
I have no issue at all with people using. It’s when they try and fool
People with “I am all natural”
They still are insanely dedicated and it takes a huge amount of work. Just don’t try and say it’s natural. I hate that
If they want to lie and live in a fool’s paradise that’s fine too. But if they want to take peoples money and promise the same results as natty yeah then it’s straight up fraud
*on the internet*
Gear using friend: you don't have to tell us you're natty, we can tell
Me: cope harder committing felonies to be slightly above average at a hobby
*IRL*
Gear using friend: dude that's cool that you decided to stay natty, you're strong af
Me: I'm just trying to be big and strong like you fam
The second interaction is me but just chasing after freakied and Bugenhagen knowing full well it’s an impossible journey 😤
People who take significant amounts of steroids to look good, their outside bodies might seem muscular and fit but that does not equate to health, health is mainly determined by how well your organs are functioning and the balancing of your blood chemicals. What heavy steroid users do is sacrifice the health of their organs for the aesthetics of their physique.
I started full body workout cycle with three days a week with every workout have the big three started to brine out and changed it to two days a week and so far it’s been working better the strength I started out with has improved and I keep getting stronger
i tried steroids, and realized i could still grow without being as consistent as i was natty. that led to all kinds of issues long term though, and i was overall worse off for it. now im natty, and the only positive i recieved from the experience was the understanding that if im consistent, and i want to train as hard is i like to, i have to do less sets. i potentially screwed my health listening to people hype up PEDs and high volume work, when i could have been healthier, stronger, and have a better physique if id just learned to lower the volume and manage my recovery. dont be stupid like me.
Noble natties there are some of us out there. Stay natty fellas
💯
If these drugs are so ineffective, why would anyone take them? It seems illogical that people risk their health for such a small effect. if you take this and apply it to a sport like Olympic weightlifting, you might notice that someone like Ilya was able to snatch 190, but after he tested positive, he only snatched 160. That’s a very significant difference. So I question the methodology being used when people claim that steroids have a small effect.
Very interesting and nuanced video. Thank you, I really enjoyed it
Colab!
I have been a novice bb for years. I recently started oly lifts and focusing on strength and speed. I’m 40 tho and your “ big dreams and bad genes” comment explains my entire life. Love it!
Great editing. Feels like a documentary. Reminds me of the ZT MPMD team up & Josh Brett Videos. The memes were fun too. I appreciated the audio clip from The Office
My only problem with steroids, is that users give advice for lifting that won't necessarily apply to natty lifters. On the juice you can go to the gym and go hard everyday. You can't do that natty, you will be injured going everyday doing 100s of reps.
No one is saying steroids are the only reason they look like that. We're only saying, you can not look like that without them. That's it.
Lol based on all of the people you didn't poll? Either way, you have no idea what someone can look like without drugs. There are tribe members in sub Saharan Africa who wouldnt pass a natty or not. You all are guessing (poorly) and, in the face of no real information, the gaps get filled with insecurity and ego.
@@AlexanderBromleyCalm down, bozo. We get that you need to defend yourself.
@@AlexanderBromleywe know that nobody can look like Ronnie Colman without steroids.
@stickedice1979 yep
@@AlexanderBromley No clue where the poll was done, but certainly doesn't express my views. Of course you need to workout to gain muscles, but it's ridiculous to think that those gains can be gained naturally, especially in as short time frame.
"There are tribe members in sub Saharan Africa who wouldnt pass a natty or not. "
Name one, Whenever I look at "tribe members" in actual natural environment they all look like bunch of skinny fat people.
Maik Wiedenbach was an Olympic swimmer for Germany. He has some stories about dealers, when the wall came down, going from shoe boxes of D-bol to rooms filled with boxes of D-bol, T-bol, Test & others. There was so much that they couldn't possibly sell it ("I'll give you 50 instead of 10, for the same price, and I'll throw in 200 T-bols for nothing!"). Later, he was a bodybuilder & "fitness model", so he sure knows his PEDs. Even he says that "strength training has gone from a training culture to a drug culture".
"SCIENCE IN THE STREETS, BRO IN THE SHEETS " 😭👏🏾👏🏾
Im 35, I was natty going on about 2 years, didn't see much gains nor a lot of strength buildup (and this was going to the gym 4 to 5 times a week). Decided to jump into small dosages of test and an estrogen blocker, and I have to say, my pumps jumped up like no other. It was like the missing piece to a puzzle. Not encouraging supplement use, but I'm pretty sure it wayy easier for younger people to stay natty.
Best a luck with the man boobs. They’ll be meeting you down the road 😂
34 and I wanna get on so bad, have no clue how tho smh…
@@HerbanMagi Go to T test and if you score low then you will get permission to legally buy it.
IF you have normal or higher than normal T... Well... You can always go to weightloss journey to artificially drop your T levels to the bottom.
Buying testosterone is beta as fuck. At that point you're just admitting that you weren't meant to be a man in the first place
The things that got my natty gains moving many years ago was moving to short full-bodied workouts of 5-8 exercises twice a week and these exercises could be different. The other major difference was cycling my training intensity. So many guys train flat out all the time and it doesn't work for nattys. The book Brawn, opened my eyes to these ideas and got me quite far before I decided to dabble in the dark side but I still found I needed the cycling intensity with short abbreviated workouts. Although fluff work ie throw in some light curls etc for high reps actually worked. In a natty state it would be a waste of time and I would be better just using my energy to hit heavy compound exercises like bb rows and they would do more for arms than a couple of pump sets of curls would.
As a natural training tactics matter so much more. Most people jump on gear because they simply don’t know how to get past the plateaus. It seems like you really learned how to train first before dabbling.
No one cares bru
@robertquinlan8063 bru, most don't even have a basic strength level before starting gear. Most commercial gyms you rarely see someone squatting or benching 2 plates aside drug free even after a reasonable amount of time training. That shows you they don't know how to train. The recommended Drug free standards to reach or get close to is 3 plates on the bench, 4 on the Squat, 5 on deads. I have noticed some guys can reach the deadlift mark but not the Squat and vice versa, I think it's a genetic thing. I think if you can get within 10% of those marks, you're doing well and probably stand out as one of the strongest in most commercial gyms. If you walked into a powerlifting gym you'd probably be humbled quickly though.
@@dansmith9724 yes for sure. But if they want to look aesthetic faster they jump on and don’t care about strength. Though I think naturally you do eventually have to become stronger for more gains.
Consistency is a HUGE HUGE part. I'm 48 yo truck driver, been lifting since '92, if I spend more than 8-9 days away from the gym I need a minimum of 2 workouts just to begin to see or feel anything resembling a pump or a result. And I micro dose test during weeks away from the iron
you take test when youre away from the iron only?
@Ryan83728 I take test regularly, I increase the loading to approx 200 mg per week while I'm working out and down to approx 100 mg when I'm away for any period of time
Fed jokes. Globalism jokes. Gold video, the one that will break the 100k subscriber natty-limit.
In 1960 the entire USA Olympics weightlifters team was jacked on potent steroids called daca durabolin.
They still lost and won bronze
so why dont you press 335lbs as an ex steroid user right now?
You're opening monologue earned my sub. "Big dreams and bad dreams" LMFAO
Awesome video sir, you really narrowed down the science of P.E.D. usage and natural lifting to a T. I'm going to implement these suggested training ideas to my splits. 11/10🏆
How is it still hard work when you are on gear? I mean compare two dads, one on normal TRT for his age and one is not. You know one of them is walking in feeling like 25 again.
- You need less gym days
- Less work during the workouts
- You have more energy while doing the workouts both mentally and more glycogen in the muscle
"It's just hard work"
Gymbro who forgot what fatigue feels like after his cycle became more like a straight line.
Because, if you're doing it right, you're taking advantage of the elevated MRV to do more work than you could have otherwise. I'm not speaking for the typical corporate gym tool who just wants to get beach ready. Competitors, those who want to win, absolutely abuse their bodies. You said it, more energy and more glycogen; that means you have the capacity to red-line it farther, even when you're in the shittiest part of your powerlifting prep or a depleted bodybuilder who is peaking for a show on 1200 calories a day.
I'm a 185lb natty whos been training for a bit over a year and is obsessed with watching 100s of hours of videos on strength and muscle gain. I train very hard 2-3 hours a day (think I tore my bicep though), eat more than enough, but my gains/and muscle/weight gain have slowed to a crawl. I know I'll continue to progress very slowly for the next however many years it just kinda sucks knowing I could skip yearrssss of training hoping on
Get that bicep checked fam. If it's torn, get the surgery no matter what.
@@WH-sz3bh I wishhh. paid out of pocket for a physical therapist and looked into mri/ultrasounds but they're too expensive for me without insurance let alone surgery... Just gotta deal with it now. Lost significant size in my left arm trying to baby it the past couple months
@@shycreation9418 Look into getting medicaid. Once you're on it you can get the surgery. I had it last year and it can save your arm. I think it's worth going into debt for. Your window for doing the surgery isn't that big. You can do it later, but it just gets harder due to scarring and tissue change.
@@shycreation9418 I can curl 85 lb dumbbells on each side now when 45 was my max after tearing it.
@@WH-sz3bh how much was surgery?.... I could hammer 70s before, now legit like 15lbs(left hand) without it feeling like I'm doing harm to it
Niceeee congrats for the video bro
Absolutely no one on 200mg+ could achieve the body they have without it no matter genetics.
Not one.
Superb video and very informative. Thank you - keep up the great work!
I feel like being natural is the most important part of my fitness journey. I mainly train to push my limits and see what my body can achieve just by eating and training. Plus being healthy is a really big bonus, so it's a win win situation :)
At the top of my list of things i find pleasing it has to be listening to the charismatic and flawless way this guy delivers a podcast!
Strength day (legs)
Technique day (full body)
Power day (torso, either horizontal, or vertical, never both)
Power day (legs, sometimes overhead included)
Technique day (full body)
Strength day (torso, again same plane)
Rest (Saturday)
It works for me. I basically am training the shoulder girdle and lower body daily either directly or inadvertently, esp since I picked up clubbells, my shoulders have never been happier being mobilized, even strengthened, daily. I train in waves like a restart week, a builder week, another builder week, a peak week, and grounding week, and then a deload week before I "restart,
We’re gonna go with no.
Discovered you a couple of weeks ago and you have become my favourite lifting channel. Impartial, evidence based approach, explained intelligently in an engaging way with clarity. Thank you for all you do.
Except that steroids are a super serum lmao. All these gearheads downplaying the potency and effectiveness of anabolics.
I was wondering when we were going to hear from a real authority on the effectiveness of anabolics! As a non-serious lifter who has never used PEDs, I'm also interested to hear your take on the 'human genetic limit' that you're 4 standard deviations away from.
@@AlexanderBromleyLol sarcasm is all you got. Clown 🤡
@@AlexanderBromley And blasting gear for 20 years doesn't make you an authority on the subject. Especially when you still look like a dyel manlet. That would be the equivalent of a heroin addict thinking he's an expert on chemistry. Please stop pretending like you aren't completely biased on this subject
Good video, and thanks for the Earthworm Jim reference 😃
Yes they are, you can literally get almost twice as strong, and twice as big with them, as if training natural. In most sports, you have no chance to reach top level in pro competition, without doping, that's just facts.
Literally almost twice as strong.... why are you making up numbers and acting like you have experience? There's a whole spot in the video comparing natty and geared records, including my numbers before and after. 800lb pullers wouldn't be stuck at 400 without gear.
Steroids could not exist and you still need 1 in 1000 genetics to hang at the top. Blast all the gear you want, you ain't touching their heels.
@@AlexanderBromley Look at Pictures, and compare body composition, weight etc of top guys of their Sport, like Hafthor and many others, he became literally almost twice what he was pre roids, and a complete different human, like many others, it's just night and day. There's few people who bench 150+ kg natty, and theres few people who bench 300+ on gear. You will find more guys deadlifting 200+ natural, than 400+ on gear, yes, and I said "almost", and that's simply true, roids are THE GAMECHANGER and THE MOST CRUCIAL FACTOR and make worlds of difference in performance, strength, muscle building. Has nothing to do with that some tards don't know how to use gear properly, or don't know how to train and eat properly, or that some have a poor foundation. You will never be Mr Olympia or Worlds strongest man, or even be remotely close or in the same sphere without roids, you won't even win a "natural bodybuilding" competition without roids, that's just reality.
22:55 That's a Megadeth riff. I love you
Natural, do full body 2 or 3x a week, mostly 2. It's been incredibly hard for me to recover and make progress because I work as a climber for a tree service M-F, and I'm toasted from work on the weekdays, leg and arm inflammation, fatigued back, etc
Ayeee, I'm a climber too (a beginner that probably doesn't climb as often but still).
Recently started a 5/3/1 program and probably have to cut out so much accessory work because I can never seem to eat enough between that and climbing, dragging brush and carrying logs all day. I need to start working on my cardio again too because it's starting to get harder lol
That is WAAY too much, imho. Unless you train with low intensity? I say this only because it was the same for me, i was overtraining for the first 15-20 years of my fitness journey. Sometimes less is more and we need to use our discipline to stay OUT of the gym and use our time and resources for smart recovery instead. Maybe try hitting the muscles once per week but with higher intensity and low volume for a little while and see if the results get better?
You, sir, are like the Doug Wilson of the lifting world. Everything is well said, informative and engaging!
The natty or not discourse is exhausting and in most cases pointless. My rule of thumb is if someone is trying to sell you something and using their physique as marketing, just assume they are using PEDs. Good lifting advice is like good science, repeated by multiple reputable sources, independently verifiable and doesn't claim to be generalizable to every case.
one friend of mine BLOWED UP in size and strength with only 300 test 200 primo for 12 weeks, his first contact with roids, he already looked amazing as a natty but there was a big change in his size and strength from the roids
I respect Bromley but this vid felt like cope to me, I have seen individuals in various gym who dont know shit, do shitty half reps for about and hour (some of them having more than 50 years old) and casually leaves the gym being the most freaky jacked dude and I have to beleive that was just 15% drug enhancement and otherwise they would still rock 85% of that WITH JUST ONE EFFING HOUR OF EFFING SHITTY TRAINING.
I'm seriously trying not to rant but io cant shake the feeling of being treated as a stupid here.
It is cope. They can definitely make more of a difference than 10%. And most of the "evidence" he had to back up his claim were personal anecdotes or opinions. As for his own personal experience with how much they affected his lifts, there were many factors involved, not just PED's. And even then, he did not mention what types of PED's taken, or in what dosages.
LMAO Ronnie was on steroids before he got super big when he went on GH and Insulin AS WELL as steroids in an interview he said "i was on skittles but not THOSE skittles".
If steroids dont give you a massive boost and help you push further than natural limits, why would you take them.
They are a game changer,. Bodybuilders/ strongmen ect wouldnt take them otherwise
Survivorship bias. You are looking at the outliers who get massive gains and ignore the thousands of nobodies in commercial gyms who blend into the crowds... Most people on roids are under 200 pounds, you wouldn't even look twice.
@@amazin7006 yes some dont respond to it. But my point still stands.
Just cos it dosnt work for some dosent change the fact that its a game changing drug. Theres a reason we call them enhanced. So if steroids dont turn you into a beast (if you respond to it cos for some reason i have to specify that cos you are all idiots) then why would body builders use them.
@@Ojthemighty Who the fuck said they don't make you bigger? You are responding to a comment nobody ever made in this entire video. Go rewatch from 10:50 and try again
@@amazin7006 who said i was responding to the video
@@amazin7006 so if you agree with me why sre you getting so butt hurt?
I love this video. I have been working out for a while and only have gotten really serious about it in the last few months. I have already plateaued on my squats, although my bench and deadlift are still going up. I have gone to different forums and asked different people what I could do to make my squat go up, and I've been getting an alarming amount of people telling me to "jump on gear, bro." I'm only 5'7" and have been told by some coaches who casually watch me as I work out at my college Athletic Center that I'm "built for running," which I agree. Putting on any muscle takes a lot of work and food, but I've always had great endurance when doing cardio. Those gym bros who tell me to jump on gear are astonished when I tell them I don't want to. It's not because I'm taking the "higher path in life" or anything. When I get older, I probably will go on TRT, but I don't see the point right now. I suspect my body won't react well to it, and I don't want to risk destroying my body's hormones just to up some numbers on a lift.
As I said, it's terrifying that many guys think gear is a super serum that makes anyone into Arnold or Ronnie-level freaks of nature. As Tom Platz once said, "Steroids don't turn Volkswagens into Ferraris".
For natty lifter intensity is most important factor, everything else is secondary. Intensity + calories will get you gains. Try to have spotter and do somewhere around 5 reps per set in bench & take it to failure. Last rep of last set is good to be forced with assistant. This is what have worked for me. I have trained 5 years mostly calisthenics & noticed everytime my intensity drops i platoon.
What is your general opinion on the “noble natty community”?
it's a cult thats as potentially as bad as the woke cult is.
@@SUPER8ALTERN8arnold is still training
I’m a lifetime natural BB, never tried herbals, test boosters ect. Many people think I’m on gear. I don’t have especially high test or free test either. I do have rather high estrogen.
I’ve been training for 9 years. Most progress I have made is with a full body 3x per week split, every 5th week a deload with 72 hour water fast. Rep ranges vary from 6-30.
Diet is crucial. I am 34 and stay around 10-14% Bf year round. Gain probably an pound or two of muscle a year at this point. I find bulking in excess of 500cals pointless as when I get lean the muscle goes with it.
The thing that sticks out to me the most in the online community is that people have super low expectations of natty physiques and anyone who achieves a high level automatically gets accusations.
I think its a reaction the over prevalence of fake nattys, We've gone too far now and think that any high level physique is not naturally obtainable when the truth is that that the top 0.1 percent can achieve that 28 FFMI, what I look for in determining who is fake or not has to do with timescale, an ELITE natural takes decades to reach that point when you have young lifters reaching 28FFMi in 4 years by the time they are 21 its extremely unlikely they are lifetime natty, but freaks DO exist.
I see just as much of the opposite thinking.
Like in the old days of COD modern warfare: better than me = hacking, worse than me = noob
@@toximan2008
Ha, that used to happen on Counter Strike too
The last 3 chapters were very helpful for me, as I am still workshopping how exactly progressive overload works. And I love how at the very end of the video, they included the part where he reaches to rip the mic off and be like “finally I’m done with this crap.”😅I subscribed, keep it up!
Statement: "Tested powerlifters in the US don't cheat."
Source: "Trust me bro, you can smell it in the air bro, please bro, they told me they are clean bro!"
Americans always first to claim natty, hold all the records in powerlifting then complain about competing Vs countries without testing in the IPF, really gets the noggin joggin doesn't it..
@@SUPER8ALTERN8 It's literally just cold war era propaganda. US at the time was trying to besmirch the soviet union as much as possible, so they convinced the public that americans are proud and noble and natty whilst the dirty soviets were all drug cheats.