Yo Tyrant, just want to congrats you and Jake to kept it professional you did a great job even when it was very hard. Also I just want to say that it was not against anybody that we played the most broken teams in the game, this is just the best way to make Bandai see the big flaws of this incredible game, I agree that the game is pretty new but all of us buy it some of us multiple times (even ultimate editions…) and imagine how we feel when we go online and we meet this type of play… I really hope this tournament helps Bandai to make the game better : -Fix ki spam -Fix up and down -Fix trunks tech (none char should be able to do that) -Fix vanish war -Fix Super counters on combo This is all I wanted to say, good luck for the commentary of the upcoming tournament because it will be pure chaos if any decision aren’t taken And thank you making this video to aware people of what happened that’s great🔥
Thanks for responding man. Yes, we have to hope that things are fixed in the upcoming patch, appreciate your comment on the situation. Good luck at Battle Hour
Not your fault and not Bandai's fault. It's the tournament organizers fault. Literally just add a stalling rule the same way Melee had a ledgegrab limit. Melee never patched that but tournaments STILL have rules against it because it would ruin the game to watch that. Just add rules bruh 💀
-devs add android characters -devs add match timer -devs give androids zero stamina dashing "How could the devs have possibly known?" The absolute state lmao
@@MrDerk4real loading into a tournament with the intention of stalling for 10 minutes is a player issue. This dude's little protest is gonna make sure we don't get a sparking zero 2. Glad I waited 17 years just for some no lifer to spit in the face of bandai for hosting a worldwide tournament for the fans. This is why we cannot have nice things in gaming.
@@dochallah1721 bro. Listen. It's the optimal way to play the game If you want to win. It's a tournament. If you don't use It when your opponent knows the trick. Then you handicap yourself. That's not an exploit It's a game design error. If you don't want to patch It because you assume your game is not competitive. Don't run official tournament or listen to what the community says about your game and adapt your tournament rules.
@@Tentacules-Vinaigre its not the optimal way to play nobody else plays like this. Go look up any other tournament or better yet watch any other fighter in the tournament fight including shiryu (the winner) who didn't do this strat at all until he faced the spammer. Stop screaming "IT'S A GAME DESIGN ISSUE THE GAME IS BROKEN THE GAME SUCKS" the game works just fine when you're not intentionally breaking it. It's a tournament design issue if you want to actually play the blame game. 180 character roster with 0 bans???? But the game has been out for like 50 days NO ONE KNEW THIS WAS GONNA HAPPEN NOBODY PLAYS LIKE THIS. The tournament coordinantors could have banned androids very easily but nobody even knew vert spamming was an issue. I'm Z rank with 200+ hours I've seen it twice and beat it both times granted I only do 1v1s but still it doesn't work as well as yall think it does. Is it annoying af yes but its not a good strat. He won a regional tournament and the guy spamming the strat lost to someone who legit just copied him on the spot. Hilliastuer was trying to take advantage of every op mechanic he could and still lost.
@@Tentacules-Vinaigre it's not the optimal way to play the game only holleister played like that and then shiryu beat him at his own game. Ya'll watch a 10 second clip and thin you know what you're talking about go watch the whole vod like I did and form an actual opinion. devs couldn't emergency patch this bs cause no one knew it existed plus the games been out like 50 days. The tournament should've just banned androids or put no match timer it's a super ez fix. Holleister is a scumbad and Shiryu destroyed him by being better. You can say it's the optimal strat but you can tell Shiryu just wanted to give him his own medicine. Shiryu absolutely whooped him too he made it look very suboptimal.
This is the developers fault. They should have released the beta for everybody and not just influencers. Bugs/spam like this would have been addressed way before release.
@@TrueUnnamedHero What?????? The game has been out 2 months it obviously takes a special kinda of douchebag to think of stalling for ten minutes. It take someone with zero respect to play the game like that. This guy is the only guy who p[lays like this. Fact is no one would ever want to play the game like that. The fact that he's from France a place that has commonly shown cowardice in the face of combat is just hilarious.
@@shads123 they live in a delusion land where every ranked game is just androids going up and down. I doubt most of these outraged people even play the game. They are all most likely 2d fighting gamers praying on this game's and any 3d fighting game's downfall honestly. Fact is 2d games are getting really bad and these guys are getting really salty.
I get your point that developers didnt know but that is also their job. The game was clearly not play tested thoroughly. We arent talking about obscure mechanics interacting in a strange way just basic core mechancis not being tested
If you don’t hold them responsible, nothing will ever change. Its the developers and companies fault. Thats what play testing is for . We can say its on the devs and company. This guy keeps the cope up. They did a very simple exploit that could be discovered easily. This is also just the tip of the iceberg of silly shit. When people spoke online everyone would gaslight us and say get good etc. so yes someone needed to make a mockery of it like this to express how important this is. We love the game and feel betrayed. We paid for this. Keep gaslighting and saying its not the devs and bandai namcos fault and this will keep happening. Play seriously is super stupid. They failed in their game design . People go for timeouts online with the broken ass online battle system. They also ruined goodwill by not putting a tiny good little patch to give people that have opponents that quit get the victory. It took me like 10 matches to see all this bs on ranked. Their play testing couldn’t catch this?
I hate to break it to you but any game 6 weeks into release is going to have insane exploits like this, and I think it's safe to say this was not intended like many things being discovered
@@tyrant_uk I hate to break it to you but stuff like this made it through the game in years of development time it is The game's fault you trying to say it's not because every game is like this it's just an excuse for poor game design The game's not meant to be competitive but why host a tournament because they know tournament is how your game stays relevant what did developers are too stupid to make it to make the game fully competitive broken the game is like this by designed they designed
@@tyrant_uk whether it was intended or not the result is the same. Either it was intended and it’s horrible game design because of decisions that we made knowing the result, or they weren’t intended and it was just straight up incompetence on the developers part. It doesn’t matter what their intentions were. Just that the end result is bad. It’s not players fault for finding exploits. It’s the developers fault for them being there in the first place
@@lancelot2833 the game is 6 weeks old, there have been way worse shit in almost any first version of a fighting game I'm not defending it, I'm saying it happens in almost every game. Once we see the first patch we will understand the direction the devs want. Too early to put full blame
Like, in Apex, where you can have 10+ teams in last circle and everyone is just semi-afk and no making any move, no one would say that's stalling, it's just how the game works. Bros made it to grand final for sure know well what's optimal.
"It's not the game or dev's fault that the game was released with this exploit." I strongly disagree. This game is currently released in a 1.0 (or higher) state. This is not a beta. For all intents and purposes, this is the full version of the game. Competitive games DO have balance patches. It's understandable that certain issues get fixed. However, this game was clearly not tested for long enough and/or by players with major competitive fighting game experience. But you're allowed to point to a culprit (developers) because someone is going to fix it (developers). You're also allowed to point to a culprit and say "this isn't a big deal," which I agree with.
Come on dude, people have been begging the devs to fix the damn game , like for example all the exploits, the balancing and the rage quitters not losing the match, but no, they just plain refuse to, so yeah, shit like that was bound to happen.
@@duddysback3780This is wishful thinking. It’s like when they showed “All outfits in Sparking Zero” before the game came out and people started using their copium inhaler saying that the game is not out and that they will probably add more when the game launches. And turns out that was all the cosmetics.
@@Mr.PR2000 true, I’m just confused why they did any customization at all if they lead ppl on. Like I get it’s not xenoverse but they could either put in similar effort like they did for that game or just leave it without customization.
@@duddysback3780 I dunno why. I think what I find so baffling is how the outfits and accessories slots are empty as hell! As if they were supposed to add more. It looks embarrassing and half assed.
I dont care if it was marketed as broken game, something stupidly broken is not fun, any games reason of making is to have fun . Broken gameplay is not fun. Balance the game and balance it correctly
cheating the game is not fun spamming is not fun but that competitive gaming for you. Spamming the most broken bs you can find because skill is too hard. They did that intentionally. Watching the whole tournament Holleister legit spammed it the whole tournament Shiryu just beat him at his own game dude is trash and ruined the tournament by himself and lost. I get why shiryu is so mad now. Holleister didn't even belong there he's legit just a no skill spammer
@@ac04project Plenty of people do. Broken games are the most fun games in existence. But when broken's done well, people don't even realize it's broken. Tribes Ascend was birthed from a "broken" mechanic. Bhopping, surfing, and on a technicality rocket jumping are some the funnest mechanics to engage with, and they were all never intended aka "broken".
Just because the devs didn't foresee something that ruins the gameplay experience, doesn't mean that it can't be their fault. It's the dev's responsibility and job to curate the player's experience according to what they intend the gameplay experience to be. Especially in tournament settings, you cannot expect players to not do things that could jeopardize their chances of winning if the game AND the tournament rules allow them to do said things. This kind of shit happens in SO many games/tournaments/what have you and NONE of them are ever fixed by blaming the players participating in these events. NONE. The ONLY way to fix these things is by asking the developers to change these things OR have rules set by the tournaments to prevent stuff like this. Players are going to do the things they are going to do. You neither can stop it by blaming them, nor can you expect them to curate themselves. Why? Because that expects a bunch of individuals to all think alike and have the same amount of integrity and that simply does not happen. It's way more effort for these players to curate themselves, sync up their levels of integrity, potentially communicate with each other to form a gentleman's agreement to not do these things, than it is to simply set rules on a tournament/game design level to prevent them from doing these things. Blaming players ignores player psychology and behavior and will literally NEVER solve a problem. It's like blaming drivers for continuously making the same mistake on certain crossroads. You can keep blaming them, but you're never going to reach every single individual before they make the mistake and get them to behave accordingly. No, you instead look at the crossroads and change the things that are causing them to make those mistakes. It's way less effort and also covers future incidents from happening.
Right and wrong is relative. If MY time is wasted, I find no point to involve myself. A game is a game. There's a way to cheat in most. Choosing to do it arguing it should have been made impossible is like justifying bad behavior in the real world. "I stole his watch because he left it easy to take". It's relative to who it affects. If it's not my watch, I care less than if it is. Have fun with your fucked tourneys, glad I never waste my time watching. That behavior is childish as hell man lol. Toxic gamers. Ftl
we've seen this stuff eversince the game came out. Either ban this tactic BEFORE the tournament starts or don't, but don't suddenly go "change how you play" right at the final. Also no offense but y'all genuinely might need to accept that it'll never be an actual competitive game, nor will it ever allow good looking matches at an optimal level.
Shiryu probably had a point to prove but they were under no obligation to play a certain way, androids charging up automatically, waiting on skill points, dodging everything by going up and down, and stalling out the timer is a viable strategy and the game's fault for even letting such a thing work despite this game having been in development for a long while now.. I get that its not supposed to be competitive but either change the way the game works or stop hosting tournaments for a "non-competitive game" (what is the players and the poor management of these tournament's fault is that some guys were actually using items for characters 😭)
Meele isn't comp yet has tournaments, actually all of smash isn't comp and each game had and or has tournaments, while a play style might be optimal, it is up to organizers to keep a entertaining show for the viewers, and a fair competition between players, if both players "colluded" to make this happen then calling for a DQ if something isn't changed is perfectly acceptable, it isn't the first time a tournament has had to make an immediate and impromptu rule change for unknown variables, it happened in smash 4 (I don't watch alot of tournament play live, however I end up seeing highlights or big events that occurs at tournaments ) there will always be something that isn't accounted for in game development, because not everyone will play or see things as someone else does, I mean who in there right mind in the game think mashing dragon dash up and down would ever be a viable strategy, yet this also isn't new, xenoverse 1 and 2 have the exact same issue and have had the same issue since launch, they shouldn't have hosted tournaments so close to the games launch date with having proper bug and oversights patch, the game has to much cheese and not much sportsmanship at the "high" level
People are just extreme all the times. It either has to be the greatest perfect run of all times or it's dogshit that should never have existed. Guys, it can be a good game and not be esport-ready, surprise! Also, it's really easy to say 'how could they not know' in hindsight, but think about it, none of you said anything about that *before* the finals, why would devs have secret powers that allow them to predict that kind of thing?
Its not a competitive fighter. How stupid to even hold a tournament for it. I wish games could just be games again. Who even cares about these people lol.
Just because it's not a competitive fighter it doesn't mean that it should be broken. There are a lot of games that are broken that just straight up aren't fun, competitive or no
Also why it confuses me there is only one local stage and wasn't going to be at all. Very strange to make a party fighting game you can't play much of locally.
@Lyndis_ must have had trouble with it in development with the destructive terrain. Hopefully an update in the future let's us play on differently skinned stages at least
Not the players fault, definitely developers and the tournament facilitators, we've seen youtubers host tournaments where they ban these androids from being used due to the infinite dash exploit they can do (Which both parties should've been aware of). What these guys have done is show how ridiculous some of these mechanics are that need fixing and put them in the spotlight. The game was always marketed as being "Unbalanced" so to have a tournament where people exploit unbalanced mechanics is expected. You can't disqualify people for playing the game as designed, when the organisers of the tournament didn't specify any rules to prevent this style of gameplay
Of course it is the developers and the organizers fault. How can you say that they did not know about that? People were talking about it basically from the launch day. It was up to Bandai Namco to either make sure that game is patched or that these characters are banned in the tournament.
Trying to say it’s not the devs responsibility is insane. Then who does the responsibility fall on ?? It’s THERE GAME and if players who’ve been playing in some of the lowest ranks can figure this shit out and do it why couldn’t the devs? And crazy part is a lot of people pointed out that a lot of these issue weren’t an issue in previous games cause they had mechanics to balance it out. Dr Gero and 19 couldn’t do this before because they didn’t have infinite ki and no character should .
@brianlaureus I'm saying at this point in time you can't put full blame there. If after the patch it's still this bad then yeah, we can start arguing that the devs are incompetent
Who else would the blame fall on besides the devs ??? A lot of these mechanics are mechanics that were in previous games and balanced out so they couldn’t be exploited. After imagine strike for example tenkaichi 3 simple balancing mechanic so it wouldn’t be spammed ki charge is significantly slower as well as ki blast firing. Not to mention you build blast stocks much slower in the game which is an unintentional mechanic that balances the game. Why would you remove a mechanic the helps regulate something that couldn’t potentially be broken an exploited? That’s incompetence at its finest. I’m not saying everything had to be perfect on release we live in different times but there’s just something you wouldn’t even need the hindsight to realize cause you’ve already done it in previous games. I’m not saying devs should get hate or anything but there’s a level of accountability that needs to be taken even simple things like establishing penalties for rage quitters should not be something that we are screaming to be fixed.
The responsibility falls on the guy who abused the bugs he found in the game duuuh. He gets the honor to participate, gets to the finals, and then wins with not a shred of sportsmanship? That's super disrespectful to the people and devs who took it seriously! DQed? On the blacklist with that doofus. And they have infinite Ki because they have that fr in the series, you watched DBZ?
2 things They didnt need to completely destroy the match entertainment value to prove that the androids were broken BUT This is not the player's fault. This is just the utmost extreme of a problem that shouldve been address a while ago.
This was absolutely necessary to destroy the entertainment. If you want to prove a point no matter what it is the impact has to be memorable. Exploitation of this broken mechanic definitely will be something to remember. If they didn't do it nobody would make such a fuss about it. That drama is necessary and I hope they will abuse the S out of broken mechanics especially on events like this so the Devs will actually care to do something about it.
Even without that last display of the sheer stupidity of android 19 and Gero, most players already had realized BEFORE finals that the infinite flying is terrible, the point was already proven. @@damiamdrop1995
They did need to, when people talk about it online everyone gaslights you and trolls. Everyone pretends the game is fine and then you hear that “the game isn’t competitive “ dude, anything that has win and loss will be competitive. It has ranked mode and ranked mode is the optimal way to play online for quick matches.
I agree with you. It did not need to be the whole match. Especially when there's an upcoming patch. Yes, it's the games fault for this, but also the player's. Why only the androids? Why not switch during the match and show other broken mechanics? The game needs fixes and is getting them. What's the point of going at this for so long when things are being addressed? They are just cheap, at least play a proper final instead of "protesting" while winning in the cheapest, prettiest way and get a ticket to travel to the finals
@@Bram_Moya its the only way holleister knows how to play once the patch drops you'll never see him win another match ever. The fact that shiryu beat him at his own game is hilarious. It is the player's fault because holleister planned to win the tournament like this. It honestly looked like no one even knew vert spamming was a thing and then everyone saw holleister do it then basically threw afterward but not Shiryu he adapted and whooped that spammer. I honestly love it. Pretending like Holleister isn't the villian here is dumb. Nobody knew vert spamming was a thing you can't blame bandai for no lifes breaking their game. You can try can try but nobody knows how to break a game like comp players.
It's totally the game, the devs and the publisher's fault. The game got half backed, even the fact that rq is a thing shows a lot on how the game was rushed for the release of daima. Cosmetics, stages, mechanics, everything got half made. When they asked for the survey, I had more than 30 mechanics issue (mechanics alone) that we've been testing and finding through retro engineering. The game as it is now, mechanically wise, is bad.
You make a great point. This game is literally 2 months old. If this is in the game 2 months from now, then it's 100% the game's fault. That being said, regardless of whether it's in the game or not, this is the tournament organizers fault. Melee had ledge grab limits for a reason. Just make a tournament rule against stalling and add a time limit to how long you dash. Pretty simple to deal with. People usually don't break tournament rules.
So the staff told the guy to play serious but the staff didn't tell him to switch characters That sounds like the staff was upset for him doing broken stuff but they made the game like this so why are they upset stupid people making a stupid broken product surprise when players use their stupid broken game against him in their stupid tournament that shows you how flawed the game is
Because it's a lame way to win? That so many guys don't get that their is something like sportsmanship and playing the game like it has to be played not to abuse it let's me know yet again i live among morons, and def not disrespect the game in the devs face. He asked for it. And now the poor guy is whining on twitter, they DQed me for no reason? What a muppet..
First off...Nowhere in the tournament rules did it say that can't do that so it doesnt make sense that they were dq'ed. This shit was half baked and released to early and there wasn't enough testing. This also isn't new, xenoverse 1 and 2 have the exact same issue and have had the same issue since launch, they shouldn't have hosted tournaments so close to the games launch date without having a proper bug and oversights patch, the game has to much cheese and not much sportsmanship at the "high" level. This is what they get for not paying attention enough.
This is a pretty obvious game design flaw. If you make characters where it's possible to never take damage, players will use the timer to win by just getting in one hit and running out the timer. Every fighting game, up to this point, has realized this basic balance issue. Winning this way is technically legitimate, but it means that you can not beat an android with anything but an android. This isn't a serious competitive game, but it won't be fun to play against anyone that's willing to play this way.
Ugh I’m supposed to be competing in the US east qualifier but the way how things are looking now I don’t even want to if I’m gonna have to go up against this. It’s hard to say what Bandai will do before the next matches. 😒
Aight so, it's the game's fault then. Seems very clear. There's not some kind of 5-month rule of game design where if you make a mistake on release but fix it in a moderate amount of time, the space-time continuum contorts and erases the mistake happening in the first place.
I don't know if you realise this, but releasing a game designed to be played against human opponents to the wider public yields more results then it does in a small closed circle for testing purposes. Either that or you're new to these kinds of games
Have you ever wondered why a game like Super Smash Bros. Melee has so many "arbitrary" rules? Well, it's because of this kind of shit, and those rules are the reason why a game that could've easily died for "not being competitive" is still alive and thriving after 20+ years. Something as simple as having a player-imposed anti-stalling rule could fix this awful meta. You don't have to let a potentially great competitive game die just because of a particular degenerate strategy. This type of stuff happens in many fighting games, and small adjustments to the ruleset (even if it's agreed by players and not an in-game setting) can do wonders to keep a game thriving. Hell, even a character ban shouldn't be out of the question.
Im glad this got showcased because the game has to broken stuff in it. I dont mind it being unbalanced in the sense of weaker characters doing less damage to stroger characters or people starting out with more HP than the other.
Great video and your asbolutely right on so many points! It obviously needs fixing/changing but the game is still new and the tournament wasnt meant to be the pinnacle of esports it was just a cool hype event.
I’ve worked QA, in QA we discover all sorts of tech and cheese that often fly under the radar years after release or get patched before they are even discovered. They Devs 100% knew about this, there is no excuse.
Yo tyrant hope you or someone sees this. I feel like there’s no need to change the super counter mechanic. All they need to do is make a clash interaction after so many vanish exchanges and then make it go back to neutral. Having a cool down on super counter will cause a lot of infinite combo loops especially from behind.
I would suggest the producers should have considered waiting until post patch before a major tournament…. But hindsight is 20/20, plus its possible they might not have realized this was inevitable otherwise.
Bad argument. Smash Bros Melee is quite literally not a competitive game at all. Tournaments *to this day* still have rulesets that keep the game extremely competitive. The tournament organizers could literally stop this with a single sentence on their event page.
@@tnsxpm just because something exists doesn't mean it's supposed to or was planned to. When they made Smash Bros Melee it was never meant to be this huge competitive meta driven game, from the core it was a party game. Just because a competitive scene was created, doesn't mean the game was build for that. That's why so many "casual turned competitive" games need to adjust tournament rules so it would be fair for everyone. Yu-Gi-Oh TCG was made to promote the show, it became popular to the point Konami started organizing their own events, but the card game was never designed with competitive play in mind, that's why in current tournaments banned card lists can reach multiple pages in length, because they need to adjust the game to suit the tournaments, not the tournaments to suit the game.
@@tnsxpmmelee is one of the most competitive games on Earth lol the game has a very solid gameplay foundation with a community developed meta. There's no blatant broken nonsense in the base game (like tripping or air camping in Brawl) that prevent it from being competitive.
So we going to ignore when competitors do "play seriously"; 1. charged ki-blast loops have no counterplay 2. sparking ki-blast spam into ult is OP Fingers should be pointed at the devs
Yep, right now these strategies are crazy strong and need looking at. If anything, we should be pleased these things were discovered early so the devs can fix it ASAP
@@tyrant_ukthey were discovered super early by people playing ranked and we got ignored and gaslit by the community and the devs. This was justified. Day one patch for online quitters to be penalized is not that complicated and is a given for almost every fighting game these days.
@TrueUnnamedHero did you code the game? Cos unless you did I don't want to hear how easy it is to fix every problem in a game on day 1 from some random
Theres an easy solution for the e-sport scene: Include a balanced mode where you make all characters have the same health pool - 3 bars, Super no 1 deals 8k dmg to everyone, Super no 2 deals 9k dmg to everyone, Ultimate deals 16k dmg to everyone, Make everyone punch and kick for the same amount of dmg to everyone, Make everyone have the same skills, Wild Sense + something Leave Hercule the same Turn off transformations as they do nothing in this mode. Instead people just pick characters they like. You have a somewhat semi-balanced game.
It's insane that this game has been in the making for "years" yet the online combat just feels so off. The story mode was interesting with certain sparking episodes but i wasnt a huge fan after playing history mode in naruto storm connections. Felt way more tedious than rewarding. Was really hoping the online would have the same spark as fighterz but somehow its just missing. Everything feels like point counting rather than just figuring out cool new combos
exactly not every game is meant to be taken seriously, arena fighters are best with friends always have been, they are a broken unbalanced mess without a code of honor to play by
@@Cloudstrifehy3"are best with friends" i can’t even play with my friends because this game has no crossplay. They fucked up so much with this game its crazy
Amazing summary, overall very well put, sound arguments/analysis. And finally someone not trash talking the game/players/devs/bandai as if it was all X or Y faults. Thanks for sharing this with the community, which tends to jump to conclusion too quickly, hopefully it'll help.
It is in no way the players' fault: if the optimal way to win is by not playing, that is a game issue. Even if someone is "trying to prove a point," it doesn't matter. Just because it looks lame, doesn't mean the player isn't trying to win; if you're trying to win, you're playing correctly. Bad game design is not the fault of the player; 1000% game's / devs' fault.
Of course it's the players fault? He gets the chance to play the finals and then he disrespects the devs in their face by playing like a doofus? Games like this will always have bugs, doesn't mean you have to be a 🤡 and show off that you can't win otherwise. And now he is crying about it on Twitter? DQ? On the blacklist with the dude!
@DexyDaddy It's disrespectful for a player in a tournament to use bugs! DQ or blacklist. Simple! Plus area fighters like that ALWAYS have bugs, the only way to resolve this is not to have tournaments at all then. SPORTSMANSHIP dude!! It's even very pretentious of people to think they are above the devs? It's their game, stfu?
@@jlau9268it’s not a bug though, nor is it an exploit. It’s the actual optimal way to play the game and compete. Androids can fly and dash around forever without issue. Flying and dashing around makes you almost impossible to hit. The androids are therefore almost impossible to hit. This means they can charge whatever bars they want, evade all attacks, and then easily punish a mistake with 0 effort or risk. They just need a life lead and a timer. These are basic game mechanics that clearly weren’t tested. There is no bug involved, nor an exploit. Just horrible game design choices by the devs. Tournaments for games that have extremely boring and uncompetitive optimal play that make the game worse have existed forever. They exist because they carefully inspect the game, playtest it competitively, then all agree to a particular set of rules that improve the game by banning characters or outlawing certain strategies. Bandai did none of this. The players didn’t make Bandai look bad, Bandai made Bandai look bad. The only thing they’re embarrassed about is that they presented the game to be played competitively and it turns out their buggy unoptimized game is super boring when played optimally. The game itself is poorly made, and this torjnament just showed that to the entire world live. 100% bandais fault. Didn’t make a half decent game for competitive, and don’t understand how to host a tournament in the slightest.
I personally think it’s an amazing point he proved! Love to see this, not all heroes wear capes. Let’s get those good changes for the longevity of the game! 🙏🏻
I haven't gotten or played the game yet, or even watched much gameplay but it's funny to me that the issue still exists in the series after all these years. I found it frustrating when the (CPU) opps would spend so much time flying around the arena aimlessly. Doing it in "competitive" matches, in a way that is embarrassing for the devs, is needed in order to hopefully get some changes made. It should all be in good fun at the end of the day tho bc this game definitely isn't meant to be competitive in this manner. Thanks for the explanation tho! ✌🏼
This is straight up the developer's fault. On day one there were already a ton of issues. A week in of dealing with unresponsive controls, busted mechanics (supercounters every 3 hits, perception spam costing no ki) the targetting system being god awful, Low Dp cheese, AIS teams cheese. And yet they decided to launch an online tournament. Without caring about the player feedback given about the state of online play. I love Namco, but they deserved to be laughed at for the hubris of releasing the game in this state and immediately trying to jump in the tournament scene with no bug fixes planned prior to the event.
The game is not competitive, is not meant to be competitive, it's mean to be lore accurate, which is not fair at all. So anyone expecting some great competitive balance battles with tons of animations... sorry, not every single fucking game has to be competitive. Chill and have fun guys.
I feel like if we need to put blame, it should be on the tourney staff. If these two play so much that that they play this way pretty much exclusively against each other, the staff should have seen it before inviting them and adjusted the ruleset accordingly. I also agree that the devs should only be to blame after the next patch if nothing is addressed or mentioned about this.
On top of the problems shown some other issues are: 1) Skill bars charge too quickly, and make people spam afterimage strike or insta sparking constantly, and vanishing wars charge them even faster... In bt3 you could use ais a maximum of 2 times per match if you only saved up for it 2) Overall damage is too high, ultimates shouldn't do 20k but 15k max and supers around 7.5k max 3) Skills like AIS, false courage and insta sparking have no malus, in bt3 you would get extremly slow charge, and the fact that you can spam them so often makes them even worse
100% the devs fault. We had people spamming senzu beans since week one and going for time outs. Game doesn't have to be competitive. It can just be a fun party game like Smash bros. But once you try to make it official with tournaments. This is what you get. Hell, people were mad at Nintendo for year fors not supporting Smash as a competitive fighter even though people were playing it at EVO. But it's not a competitive fighter, and they had 0 intentions of balancing the game as such, so didn't support that style of play. Which is the right call. If Bandai doesn't like this, then either don't have official tournaments, or balance the game competitively. Guess which one is less work...
It is 100% the players' fault for actually playing like this and the tournament organizers were completely correct to threaten to disqualify them for it.
I think running a tournament circuit with so much money + Battle Hour spot on the line with those rules was asking for trouble (10 min timer is ridiculous). Hosting free/smaller prize tournaments to feel it out would've been better because you would have seen these problems beforehand. It feels like whoever was in charge never seen tournament play or gameplay in general. This #19 and #20 strategy was shown early at TNS and every other tournament bans those characters and had they done their research this situation could have been avoided.
Idc its not competitive,I get hit by that in ranked and I'll still call it bs and want that fixed instant,make them lose ki on specific dashes,its just dumb
1:25 my only problem with this is that you can give fault to the game without saying that its a failing on the behalf of the game or its creators- blame and failure are two different things. "the game has only been out for 3 months- if it had been a year and still like this i agree" so it is the games fault, since it is a result of the current mechanics of play; BUT we should not consider it to reflect poorly on the developers because of the newness of the game.
First point is so self-absorbed. We know that the developers know this is an intended mechanic. It's been in high elo gameplay for the whole time the game has been out. "To dodge supers easily, go up or down" The issue is that there's a format where timeout ever takes a place in the game.
The funny part was that the staff threatened one guy with DQ while Shiryu just did played the same and he won. Tournament organizers need to study their game and not add 600 second timers when timing out is the best tactic.
Nahhh it is on the devs, we have playtesters for this reason. It's really a very obvious oversight imo. BUT, in the long run this may be good for Sparking Zero if players want it to be competitive. The community has to go through these types of things. The devs, TO's, and the players should view this as a lesson tbh
Simple fix. Make tournament rules. Doing nothing but avoiding combat = disqualification 🤷♂️ doesn't matter if the character is designed to avoid combat. Ban the characters? But not during the tournament. Good on him for exposing it 😊
Are they doing anything wrong? Brother yes theyre not fighting in a fighting game imagine going to a boxing match and the fighters just march around the ring for the ENTIRE match.
Thats why there are rules in boxing and a ref. People will always do dominant strategy in anything competitive that has a reward. Its up to the people that make the competition to sort that out.
Yeah, the problem is that unlike boxing this is actually how you win. If it were possible to win a boxing match by running away from your opponent, people would be doing that. But there’s a scoring system and rules in place so that you can’t do that. You don’t just ban someone because your rules and game suck when actually put to the test. If it wasn’t the best way to play, they wouldn’t have won. Simple as.
I think the best fix for this would be to add more variation to the tracking ability, size, speed and range to the Blasts. Some players want that regardless. It would be more immersive and fair if Android 19 could not just outrun a Genkidama, Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack, SS Deadly Bomber or even a (bending) Kamehameha without having to vanish at some point. It would also stress the power vs speed aspect a lot more if only very fast characters can do that I disagree with the statement that the game is not "competitive". Fighting games are always competitive. The very existence of ranked online communicates that. It's a good thing an experienced player doesn't have to deal with someone who doesn't know the basic controls The devs do care about balance. That's why weaker characters can use their utility skills more often. That's why we have DP battles. And that's why they nerfed Yajirobe. This doesn't need to conflict. Android 19 and Dr. Wheelo are certainly not the end bosses of Dragon Ball GT or Super What makes the series great is that we can choose to play balanced or not. Hopefully we'll get more customization options for the casual lobby (like ring out, capsules or no flying for the host, guest or both) and PvP custom battles so the game communicates this better
In smash bros Melee, a game its creators and even Nintendo have state in diferent ways "it's NOT a competitive game", had the community discover over time a lot of cheese techs and stalling strategies, which the comunity themselves ended straight up banning them for the sake of making it more competitive. But it's very true that the game is on an early stage so is not yet time to blame the devs, but that doesnt mean that we as a comunity cant do something later on if the devs endes doing nothing
It’s the developer's responsibility to balance a game. That said, it's a new game, so give the developers some time to work out the balance! You could argue that the game is meant for casual play rather than tournaments. In that case, tournaments should establish their own rules. But again, the game is still new, so give it some time to smooth out.
I believe that this game was overall rushed and it just sucks that another game is expected to be better years or months down the line of its life cycle than on release.
It's on the devs. The players can't be faulted for employting the most effective tactics available. The devs are the ones with the power to tweak/balance the game. They might not have known, or predicted this, but it falls on their plate.
This is what happens when bad game design meets sweaty tryhards. The difference between this and other fighting game tournaments is that the mechanic that the pro players feel is key to their success isn't counters, stringing combos that are hard to break out of, and special attack bar management, but probably some sort of spacing issue. So instead of the players doing something entertaining like testing their opponent with different attacks, they're running back and forth to try and get the ideal distance from their opponent to even begin fighting. It is absolutely bad game design. The shooting around is pretty much emblematic of a DBZ game, but it introduces a game mechanic that incentivizes the players to disengage. Probably with the idea that they'll only disengages occasionally and not continuously for 10 fucking minutes.
The game wasn't meant for competitive play makes a competitive tournament Everyone; "HEY THIS IS BROKEN!AAHHHHHH!" ME; "Well yea...kinda expected this in an unbalanced game...especially with ruthlessly competitive people."
The third. Game actually bounced their mechanics out.This game simply does not on any level. So several of the games mechanics go unchecked and it creates problematic and unfun game play loops
You don’t have to shill just because you did commentary for the game bro. They had a blueprint for the game they chose to not follow. It is absolutely the devs fault this was possible in the first place.
I'm not shilling come on relax. I'm saying it's too early to put full blame because it's been out 6 weeks. I clearly said in the video I'd agree if the game had been out for longer and was still like this. But the groundwork is there, they just need to patch out the dumb stuff like this.
@ I apologize for being disrespectful I would understand if this was the first game of its kind but it’s not. At worst this game should’ve been BT3.5 but they didn’t bother to do that and removed a lot of balancing mechanics that didn’t enable the type of play we witnessed at the tournament. I fully believe this game was rushed, there is no other explanation for how this game released in the state it did.
@pepppepp276 yeah I think we can all agree there needs to be big fixes moving forward if they want people to stay invested in the game. Thanks for watching
@TrueUnnamedHero if I was shilling do you think I would make a video bringing light to a strategy that makes the game look bad? Use your fucking brain moron
Just proves BT series is never designed to be competitive in any capacity. It's a game at it's best when playing with like minded people who just want to have fun
It's games/devs fault that there are bullshits like this but it's players/community fault to organise tournament in the game that wasn't meant to be esport and THEN complain about absurdities.
"It would be the game's fault if the game was out for a year and they didn't fix it" if it needs a fix, it's the game's fault. Case closed. Testing and balancing prelaunch is done for a reason
Character bans isn’t a bad thing, do something similar to COD rank where they limit things they can use such as weapons and attachments Also big streamers do this running away thing and it’s very annoying
In this current state the game is absolutely terrible they need to go in balance characters in balance move sets and overall fix the game they sold as a broken game and suspect everybody to be happy with it
@lancelot2833 if you want balanced, play any other fighting game. Sparking Zero is BT4, the BT series has NEVER been balanced. It's a casual arena fighter that's designed to reflect that certain characters are just weaker or stronger than others
No it doesn't, you and far too much people have become spoiled whining brats, that's the problem. People are dying in Ukraine and you are complaining about a vid game 🤡
Imma be in the japan tourney imma do the same if have to… im not finna lose for people’s entertainment. Shoutout to my brother Quyon and Globku. W Biscuit too for showin love to u and jake yall did phenomenal on comms true legends of the game. I respect hilli and shryxu very bold and brave attempt for change. The only reason this happened is because of the history of devs and companies not being in tune with the arena fighter community. W video and great insights fam.🙏🏾
Of course this is on the developers, how can you possibly argue otherwise? Having a glaring flaw like this on release means that at no point during development did they ask the question "What if Gero or 19 just keep flying away because we gave them infinite dragon dash?". It was a bad, shortsighted decision with obvious consequences as highlighted by the tournament. Saying "It's not meant to be competitive" is pure copium, can we please retire that sentiment? It's a blatant excuse for busted and lame tech that could have been avoided if they thought more critically about how people would end up playing their game. Sure the game is new so we have the hope that it'll get fixed, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with calling out lameness for what it is. How long does this have to stay in the game before it's okay to complain about it? "How is it the games fault?" is a nonsensical question. Good on the players of the grand finals for highlighting these issues, hope the message is received.
It is the game's fault. Three months is considered long for simply game system like SZ. Expect there will be repeats of infinite flying in the upcoming tournaments
I look at this like super smash bros wavedashing. I'm not gonna blame the developers for the players abusing mechanics. Any competitive community has no problem banning things that are too broken or powerful. In this case it's the players. Not the developers. 😊
Just make a banlist for tournaments or just simply make draft picks... So each match will start with players banning certain characters of their choosing. MOBA's do it all the time
nah dude it is most definetly the developers fault. I say this because what these pros did is actually also the most efficient way to waste time when your opponent is in sparking mode which is insane to me since that is not skillfull at all
I mean, sure, there's no way the developers could know something like this could happen, it's not like they could have a group of people playing the game for a couple of weeks before releasing the game... oh wait...
Just because something is allowed doesn't mean it should be done. This is both the game's fault (for its mechanics and expecting better things from cheap players nowadays) and the players' fault. I get that you want to prove a point in the prettiest way. But, there's an upcoming patch already announced, which means measures are being taken and you could've just shown the broken mechanics for a few moments and then throw hands. Fixes are coming, what are you protesting about for so long?! You don't see boxers start a fight and have one of them avoid his opponent the whole match. I do believe DQ was in order
Yo Tyrant, just want to congrats you and Jake to kept it professional you did a great job even when it was very hard.
Also I just want to say that it was not against anybody that we played the most broken teams in the game, this is just the best way to make Bandai see the big flaws of this incredible game, I agree that the game is pretty new but all of us buy it some of us multiple times (even ultimate editions…) and imagine how we feel when we go online and we meet this type of play…
I really hope this tournament helps Bandai to make the game better :
-Fix ki spam
-Fix up and down
-Fix trunks tech (none char should be able to do that)
-Fix vanish war
-Fix Super counters on combo
This is all I wanted to say, good luck for the commentary of the upcoming tournament because it will be pure chaos if any decision aren’t taken
And thank you making this video to aware people of what happened that’s great🔥
Thanks for responding man.
Yes, we have to hope that things are fixed in the upcoming patch, appreciate your comment on the situation.
Good luck at Battle Hour
nah keep trunks tech
Uh-huh...
Not your fault and not Bandai's fault. It's the tournament organizers fault. Literally just add a stalling rule the same way Melee had a ledgegrab limit. Melee never patched that but tournaments STILL have rules against it because it would ruin the game to watch that. Just add rules bruh 💀
Doesnt fix most players experience w the game, as stated above we want better online experience, game is fast tracking death at this rate@@tnsxpm
-devs add android characters
-devs add match timer
-devs give androids zero stamina dashing
"How could the devs have possibly known?" The absolute state lmao
The amount of copium this guy had to inhale to say it wasn't the games fault. 😂
@@MrDerk4real loading into a tournament with the intention of stalling for 10 minutes is a player issue. This dude's little protest is gonna make sure we don't get a sparking zero 2. Glad I waited 17 years just for some no lifer to spit in the face of bandai for hosting a worldwide tournament for the fans. This is why we cannot have nice things in gaming.
@@dochallah1721 bro. Listen. It's the optimal way to play the game If you want to win. It's a tournament. If you don't use It when your opponent knows the trick. Then you handicap yourself. That's not an exploit It's a game design error. If you don't want to patch It because you assume your game is not competitive. Don't run official tournament or listen to what the community says about your game and adapt your tournament rules.
@@Tentacules-Vinaigre its not the optimal way to play nobody else plays like this. Go look up any other tournament or better yet watch any other fighter in the tournament fight including shiryu (the winner) who didn't do this strat at all until he faced the spammer. Stop screaming "IT'S A GAME DESIGN ISSUE THE GAME IS BROKEN THE GAME SUCKS" the game works just fine when you're not intentionally breaking it. It's a tournament design issue if you want to actually play the blame game. 180 character roster with 0 bans???? But the game has been out for like 50 days NO ONE KNEW THIS WAS GONNA HAPPEN NOBODY PLAYS LIKE THIS. The tournament coordinantors could have banned androids very easily but nobody even knew vert spamming was an issue. I'm Z rank with 200+ hours I've seen it twice and beat it both times granted I only do 1v1s but still it doesn't work as well as yall think it does. Is it annoying af yes but its not a good strat. He won a regional tournament and the guy spamming the strat lost to someone who legit just copied him on the spot. Hilliastuer was trying to take advantage of every op mechanic he could and still lost.
@@Tentacules-Vinaigre it's not the optimal way to play the game only holleister played like that and then shiryu beat him at his own game. Ya'll watch a 10 second clip and thin you know what you're talking about go watch the whole vod like I did and form an actual opinion. devs couldn't emergency patch this bs cause no one knew it existed plus the games been out like 50 days. The tournament should've just banned androids or put no match timer it's a super ez fix. Holleister is a scumbad and Shiryu destroyed him by being better. You can say it's the optimal strat but you can tell Shiryu just wanted to give him his own medicine. Shiryu absolutely whooped him too he made it look very suboptimal.
This is the developers fault. They should have released the beta for everybody and not just influencers. Bugs/spam like this would have been addressed way before release.
Agreed! We paid full price to beta test their game and then we get gaslit and clowned for calling out the flaws.
@@TrueUnnamedHero What?????? The game has been out 2 months it obviously takes a special kinda of douchebag to think of stalling for ten minutes. It take someone with zero respect to play the game like that. This guy is the only guy who p[lays like this. Fact is no one would ever want to play the game like that. The fact that he's from France a place that has commonly shown cowardice in the face of combat is just hilarious.
@@dochallah1721ok racist douchebag lmao
You do know that the open public wouldnt have found this lol
@@shads123 they live in a delusion land where every ranked game is just androids going up and down. I doubt most of these outraged people even play the game. They are all most likely 2d fighting gamers praying on this game's and any 3d fighting game's downfall honestly. Fact is 2d games are getting really bad and these guys are getting really salty.
I get your point that developers didnt know but that is also their job. The game was clearly not play tested thoroughly. We arent talking about obscure mechanics interacting in a strange way just basic core mechancis not being tested
Agreed, the game needed to cook for longer
If you don’t hold them responsible, nothing will ever change. Its the developers and companies fault. Thats what play testing is for . We can say its on the devs and company. This guy keeps the cope up. They did a very simple exploit that could be discovered easily. This is also just the tip of the iceberg of silly shit. When people spoke online everyone would gaslight us and say get good etc. so yes someone needed to make a mockery of it like this to express how important this is. We love the game and feel betrayed. We paid for this. Keep gaslighting and saying its not the devs and bandai namcos fault and this will keep happening. Play seriously is super stupid. They failed in their game design . People go for timeouts online with the broken ass online battle system. They also ruined goodwill by not putting a tiny good little patch to give people that have opponents that quit get the victory. It took me like 10 matches to see all this bs on ranked. Their play testing couldn’t catch this?
It's not even a bug. It's the game design, someone above them gave an order to implement it.
It's not BLAME but it IS responsibility.
It is the games fault because it allows this to work. It allows you to even do this
I hate to break it to you but any game 6 weeks into release is going to have insane exploits like this, and I think it's safe to say this was not intended like many things being discovered
@@tyrant_uk I hate to break it to you but stuff like this made it through the game in years of development time it is The game's fault you trying to say it's not because every game is like this it's just an excuse for poor game design
The game's not meant to be competitive but why host a tournament because they know tournament is how your game stays relevant what did developers are too stupid to make it to make the game fully competitive broken the game is like this by designed they designed
@@tyrant_uk whether it was intended or not the result is the same. Either it was intended and it’s horrible game design because of decisions that we made knowing the result, or they weren’t intended and it was just straight up incompetence on the developers part.
It doesn’t matter what their intentions were. Just that the end result is bad. It’s not players fault for finding exploits. It’s the developers fault for them being there in the first place
Yall mfs ain't never made a game before to think yall can cover all ends.
@@lancelot2833 the game is 6 weeks old, there have been way worse shit in almost any first version of a fighting game
I'm not defending it, I'm saying it happens in almost every game. Once we see the first patch we will understand the direction the devs want.
Too early to put full blame
Like, in Apex, where you can have 10+ teams in last circle and everyone is just semi-afk and no making any move,
no one would say that's stalling, it's just how the game works.
Bros made it to grand final for sure know well what's optimal.
"It's not the game or dev's fault that the game was released with this exploit." I strongly disagree.
This game is currently released in a 1.0 (or higher) state. This is not a beta. For all intents and purposes, this is the full version of the game.
Competitive games DO have balance patches. It's understandable that certain issues get fixed.
However, this game was clearly not tested for long enough and/or by players with major competitive fighting game experience.
But you're allowed to point to a culprit (developers) because someone is going to fix it (developers). You're also allowed to point to a culprit and say "this isn't a big deal," which I agree with.
And all the cheese is immediate and obvious, it's not even cool glitches or something
Come on dude, people have been begging the devs to fix the damn game , like for example all the exploits, the balancing and the rage quitters not losing the match, but no, they just plain refuse to, so yeah, shit like that was bound to happen.
That's the thing, they're (hopefully) working on a patch to fix all the broken shit like this. We will see in Dec patch
@@tyrant_ukhave they done or said anything about the upcoming patch that would make us hopeful? Or is this just wishful thinking rn
@@duddysback3780This is wishful thinking. It’s like when they showed “All outfits in Sparking Zero” before the game came out and people started using their copium inhaler saying that the game is not out and that they will probably add more when the game launches. And turns out that was all the cosmetics.
@@Mr.PR2000 true, I’m just confused why they did any customization at all if they lead ppl on. Like I get it’s not xenoverse but they could either put in similar effort like they did for that game or just leave it without customization.
@@duddysback3780 I dunno why. I think what I find so baffling is how the outfits and accessories slots are empty as hell! As if they were supposed to add more. It looks embarrassing and half assed.
I dont care if it was marketed as broken game, something stupidly broken is not fun, any games reason of making is to have fun . Broken gameplay is not fun. Balance the game and balance it correctly
cheating the game is not fun spamming is not fun but that competitive gaming for you. Spamming the most broken bs you can find because skill is too hard. They did that intentionally. Watching the whole tournament Holleister legit spammed it the whole tournament Shiryu just beat him at his own game dude is trash and ruined the tournament by himself and lost. I get why shiryu is so mad now. Holleister didn't even belong there he's legit just a no skill spammer
And that's what these idiots fail to grasp.It's not unbalanced d when it's just downright broken
Broken gameplay can be fun, it just depends on what kind of broken. Obviously this aint it
@@Green.n.Purple nobody wants broken gameplay
@@ac04project Plenty of people do. Broken games are the most fun games in existence. But when broken's done well, people don't even realize it's broken.
Tribes Ascend was birthed from a "broken" mechanic. Bhopping, surfing, and on a technicality rocket jumping are some the funnest mechanics to engage with, and they were all never intended aka "broken".
Just because the devs didn't foresee something that ruins the gameplay experience, doesn't mean that it can't be their fault.
It's the dev's responsibility and job to curate the player's experience according to what they intend the gameplay experience to be. Especially in tournament settings, you cannot expect players to not do things that could jeopardize their chances of winning if the game AND the tournament rules allow them to do said things.
This kind of shit happens in SO many games/tournaments/what have you and NONE of them are ever fixed by blaming the players participating in these events. NONE. The ONLY way to fix these things is by asking the developers to change these things OR have rules set by the tournaments to prevent stuff like this.
Players are going to do the things they are going to do. You neither can stop it by blaming them, nor can you expect them to curate themselves. Why? Because that expects a bunch of individuals to all think alike and have the same amount of integrity and that simply does not happen. It's way more effort for these players to curate themselves, sync up their levels of integrity, potentially communicate with each other to form a gentleman's agreement to not do these things, than it is to simply set rules on a tournament/game design level to prevent them from doing these things. Blaming players ignores player psychology and behavior and will literally NEVER solve a problem.
It's like blaming drivers for continuously making the same mistake on certain crossroads. You can keep blaming them, but you're never going to reach every single individual before they make the mistake and get them to behave accordingly. No, you instead look at the crossroads and change the things that are causing them to make those mistakes. It's way less effort and also covers future incidents from happening.
You can’t argue with this dude, he’s on Bamco’s payroll lol
Yeah Tyrant literally has to bend his knees
Dr. Gero running away is lore accurate 😂😂😂
Their is nothing funny about this, all of you guys are getting to big a mouth, disrespectful pos.
Right and wrong is relative. If MY time is wasted, I find no point to involve myself. A game is a game. There's a way to cheat in most. Choosing to do it arguing it should have been made impossible is like justifying bad behavior in the real world. "I stole his watch because he left it easy to take". It's relative to who it affects. If it's not my watch, I care less than if it is. Have fun with your fucked tourneys, glad I never waste my time watching. That behavior is childish as hell man lol. Toxic gamers. Ftl
I was excited to stream this during the US tourney now I’m having second thoughts 😭 sheesh
we've seen this stuff eversince the game came out.
Either ban this tactic BEFORE the tournament starts or don't, but don't suddenly go "change how you play" right at the final.
Also no offense but y'all genuinely might need to accept that it'll never be an actual competitive game, nor will it ever allow good looking matches at an optimal level.
Shiryu probably had a point to prove but they were under no obligation to play a certain way, androids charging up automatically, waiting on skill points, dodging everything by going up and down, and stalling out the timer is a viable strategy and the game's fault for even letting such a thing work despite this game having been in development for a long while now..
I get that its not supposed to be competitive but either change the way the game works or stop hosting tournaments for a "non-competitive game"
(what is the players and the poor management of these tournament's fault is that some guys were actually using items for characters 😭)
also not really feeling that hopeful for the patch in december but hoping it changes SOMETHING
Meele isn't comp yet has tournaments, actually all of smash isn't comp and each game had and or has tournaments, while a play style might be optimal, it is up to organizers to keep a entertaining show for the viewers, and a fair competition between players, if both players "colluded" to make this happen then calling for a DQ if something isn't changed is perfectly acceptable, it isn't the first time a tournament has had to make an immediate and impromptu rule change for unknown variables, it happened in smash 4 (I don't watch alot of tournament play live, however I end up seeing highlights or big events that occurs at tournaments ) there will always be something that isn't accounted for in game development, because not everyone will play or see things as someone else does, I mean who in there right mind in the game think mashing dragon dash up and down would ever be a viable strategy, yet this also isn't new, xenoverse 1 and 2 have the exact same issue and have had the same issue since launch, they shouldn't have hosted tournaments so close to the games launch date with having proper bug and oversights patch, the game has to much cheese and not much sportsmanship at the "high" level
People are just extreme all the times. It either has to be the greatest perfect run of all times or it's dogshit that should never have existed. Guys, it can be a good game and not be esport-ready, surprise!
Also, it's really easy to say 'how could they not know' in hindsight, but think about it, none of you said anything about that *before* the finals, why would devs have secret powers that allow them to predict that kind of thing?
Its not a competitive fighter.
How stupid to even hold a tournament for it. I wish games could just be games again. Who even cares about these people lol.
Well it was the company that made the tournament soooooooo.
@TrueUnnamedHero yeah and they dumb what's your point lol.
Just because it's not a competitive fighter it doesn't mean that it should be broken. There are a lot of games that are broken that just straight up aren't fun, competitive or no
Also why it confuses me there is only one local stage and wasn't going to be at all. Very strange to make a party fighting game you can't play much of locally.
@Lyndis_ must have had trouble with it in development with the destructive terrain. Hopefully an update in the future let's us play on differently skinned stages at least
Not the players fault, definitely developers and the tournament facilitators, we've seen youtubers host tournaments where they ban these androids from being used due to the infinite dash exploit they can do (Which both parties should've been aware of). What these guys have done is show how ridiculous some of these mechanics are that need fixing and put them in the spotlight. The game was always marketed as being "Unbalanced" so to have a tournament where people exploit unbalanced mechanics is expected.
You can't disqualify people for playing the game as designed, when the organisers of the tournament didn't specify any rules to prevent this style of gameplay
Of course it is the developers and the organizers fault. How can you say that they did not know about that? People were talking about it basically from the launch day. It was up to Bandai Namco to either make sure that game is patched or that these characters are banned in the tournament.
Trying to say it’s not the devs responsibility is insane. Then who does the responsibility fall on ?? It’s THERE GAME and if players who’ve been playing in some of the lowest ranks can figure this shit out and do it why couldn’t the devs? And crazy part is a lot of people pointed out that a lot of these issue weren’t an issue in previous games cause they had mechanics to balance it out. Dr Gero and 19 couldn’t do this before because they didn’t have infinite ki and no character should .
@brianlaureus I'm saying at this point in time you can't put full blame there. If after the patch it's still this bad then yeah, we can start arguing that the devs are incompetent
Who else would the blame fall on besides the devs ??? A lot of these mechanics are mechanics that were in previous games and balanced out so they couldn’t be exploited. After imagine strike for example tenkaichi 3 simple balancing mechanic so it wouldn’t be spammed ki charge is significantly slower as well as ki blast firing. Not to mention you build blast stocks much slower in the game which is an unintentional mechanic that balances the game. Why would you remove a mechanic the helps regulate something that couldn’t potentially be broken an exploited? That’s incompetence at its finest. I’m not saying everything had to be perfect on release we live in different times but there’s just something you wouldn’t even need the hindsight to realize cause you’ve already done it in previous games. I’m not saying devs should get hate or anything but there’s a level of accountability that needs to be taken even simple things like establishing penalties for rage quitters should not be something that we are screaming to be fixed.
The responsibility falls on the guy who abused the bugs he found in the game duuuh. He gets the honor to participate, gets to the finals, and then wins with not a shred of sportsmanship? That's super disrespectful to the people and devs who took it seriously! DQed? On the blacklist with that doofus.
And they have infinite Ki because they have that fr in the series, you watched DBZ?
2 things
They didnt need to completely destroy the match entertainment value to prove that the androids were broken
BUT
This is not the player's fault. This is just the utmost extreme of a problem that shouldve been address a while ago.
This was absolutely necessary to destroy the entertainment. If you want to prove a point no matter what it is the impact has to be memorable. Exploitation of this broken mechanic definitely will be something to remember. If they didn't do it nobody would make such a fuss about it. That drama is necessary and I hope they will abuse the S out of broken mechanics especially on events like this so the Devs will actually care to do something about it.
Even without that last display of the sheer stupidity of android 19 and Gero, most players already had realized BEFORE finals that the infinite flying is terrible, the point was already proven. @@damiamdrop1995
They did need to, when people talk about it online everyone gaslights you and trolls. Everyone pretends the game is fine and then you hear that “the game isn’t competitive “ dude, anything that has win and loss will be competitive. It has ranked mode and ranked mode is the optimal way to play online for quick matches.
I agree with you. It did not need to be the whole match. Especially when there's an upcoming patch. Yes, it's the games fault for this, but also the player's. Why only the androids? Why not switch during the match and show other broken mechanics?
The game needs fixes and is getting them. What's the point of going at this for so long when things are being addressed? They are just cheap, at least play a proper final instead of "protesting" while winning in the cheapest, prettiest way and get a ticket to travel to the finals
@@Bram_Moya its the only way holleister knows how to play once the patch drops you'll never see him win another match ever. The fact that shiryu beat him at his own game is hilarious. It is the player's fault because holleister planned to win the tournament like this. It honestly looked like no one even knew vert spamming was a thing and then everyone saw holleister do it then basically threw afterward but not Shiryu he adapted and whooped that spammer. I honestly love it. Pretending like Holleister isn't the villian here is dumb. Nobody knew vert spamming was a thing you can't blame bandai for no lifes breaking their game. You can try can try but nobody knows how to break a game like comp players.
It's totally the game, the devs and the publisher's fault. The game got half backed, even the fact that rq is a thing shows a lot on how the game was rushed for the release of daima. Cosmetics, stages, mechanics, everything got half made.
When they asked for the survey, I had more than 30 mechanics issue (mechanics alone) that we've been testing and finding through retro engineering.
The game as it is now, mechanically wise, is bad.
Agreed . And they only let a select few beta test. Then we paid 70 dollars plus to beta test them for real.
Yeah mechanically it's busted, And I mean like certain things don't work. Another things are just far too effective for too little resources
Cosmetics was extremely half made
@@Mr.PR2000 "half" is being nice...
@@helgarth Too nice. It’s almost like the developers didn’t watch the anime or manga.
You make a great point. This game is literally 2 months old. If this is in the game 2 months from now, then it's 100% the game's fault. That being said, regardless of whether it's in the game or not, this is the tournament organizers fault. Melee had ledge grab limits for a reason. Just make a tournament rule against stalling and add a time limit to how long you dash. Pretty simple to deal with. People usually don't break tournament rules.
So the staff told the guy to play serious but the staff didn't tell him to switch characters
That sounds like the staff was upset for him doing broken stuff but they made the game like this so why are they upset stupid people making a stupid broken product surprise when players use their stupid broken game against him in their stupid tournament that shows you how flawed the game is
Agreed, I think they misunderstood what the game at 'high level' looks like
@@tyrant_uk😭 thing is it’s even in lower tier ranked like omg praying we get that patch soon 😭
Because it's a lame way to win? That so many guys don't get that their is something like sportsmanship and playing the game like it has to be played not to abuse it let's me know yet again i live among morons, and def not disrespect the game in the devs face. He asked for it. And now the poor guy is whining on twitter, they DQed me for no reason? What a muppet..
First off...Nowhere in the tournament rules did it say that can't do that so it doesnt make sense that they were dq'ed. This shit was half baked and released to early and there wasn't enough testing.
This also isn't new, xenoverse 1 and 2 have the exact same issue and have had the same issue since launch, they shouldn't have hosted tournaments so close to the games launch date without having a proper bug and oversights patch, the game has to much cheese and not much sportsmanship at the "high" level.
This is what they get for not paying attention enough.
Fighting game of the year btw. UNI2 got shafted for this shit.
This is a pretty obvious game design flaw. If you make characters where it's possible to never take damage, players will use the timer to win by just getting in one hit and running out the timer. Every fighting game, up to this point, has realized this basic balance issue.
Winning this way is technically legitimate, but it means that you can not beat an android with anything but an android. This isn't a serious competitive game, but it won't be fun to play against anyone that's willing to play this way.
For those interested, and who can speak french, both players actually gave an interview together yesterday about this
(They are friends IRL)
What is the name of the players?
@
It’s Syryxu and Hilliastor
They actually just both got DQ by BANDAI ☹️
Ugh I’m supposed to be competing in the US east qualifier but the way how things are looking now I don’t even want to if I’m gonna have to go up against this. It’s hard to say what Bandai will do before the next matches. 😒
Aight so, it's the game's fault then. Seems very clear. There's not some kind of 5-month rule of game design where if you make a mistake on release but fix it in a moderate amount of time, the space-time continuum contorts and erases the mistake happening in the first place.
I don't know if you realise this, but releasing a game designed to be played against human opponents to the wider public yields more results then it does in a small closed circle for testing purposes. Either that or you're new to these kinds of games
This game not for compétition
It still needs to be viable to play and not be cheesed every time you play. If not just dont put a winner and loser
There’s literally a ranked mode
Then tell the company not to host the competition for their non-competitive game
@@DeathandGrim2then the game shouldn’t exist
By your logic
Fighting to win is a competition
Have you ever wondered why a game like Super Smash Bros. Melee has so many "arbitrary" rules? Well, it's because of this kind of shit, and those rules are the reason why a game that could've easily died for "not being competitive" is still alive and thriving after 20+ years.
Something as simple as having a player-imposed anti-stalling rule could fix this awful meta. You don't have to let a potentially great competitive game die just because of a particular degenerate strategy. This type of stuff happens in many fighting games, and small adjustments to the ruleset (even if it's agreed by players and not an in-game setting) can do wonders to keep a game thriving. Hell, even a character ban shouldn't be out of the question.
The only thing is if they make the timer shorter people just gonna run for 5 mins instead of 10
Could happen, but at least it would be shorter lol
@@tyrant_uk that is definitely true lol
It’s can’t be the games fault because they said from the beginning that it’s not meant to be play competitive
And then hosted a tournament.
Im glad this got showcased because the game has to broken stuff in it. I dont mind it being unbalanced in the sense of weaker characters doing less damage to stroger characters or people starting out with more HP than the other.
I hear ya
They really need to tweak certain system mechanics. It's embarassing that this was apparently play tested months before and then released.
Great video and your asbolutely right on so many points! It obviously needs fixing/changing but the game is still new and the tournament wasnt meant to be the pinnacle of esports it was just a cool hype event.
I’ve worked QA, in QA we discover all sorts of tech and cheese that often fly under the radar years after release or get patched before they are even discovered. They Devs 100% knew about this, there is no excuse.
Underrated comment
Tyrant out here like wow the devs didn't notice having an infinite resource lets you use the resource infinitely
Yo tyrant hope you or someone sees this. I feel like there’s no need to change the super counter mechanic. All they need to do is make a clash interaction after so many vanish exchanges and then make it go back to neutral. Having a cool down on super counter will cause a lot of infinite combo loops especially from behind.
I would suggest the producers should have considered waiting until post patch before a major tournament…. But hindsight is 20/20, plus its possible they might not have realized this was inevitable otherwise.
This game shouldn't even have a competitive scene...
Bad argument. Smash Bros Melee is quite literally not a competitive game at all.
Tournaments *to this day* still have rulesets that keep the game extremely competitive.
The tournament organizers could literally stop this with a single sentence on their event page.
@@tnsxpm Bro Melee is competitive wym?
@@Supersonic37838smash bros is a party game that happened to turn competitive
@@tnsxpm just because something exists doesn't mean it's supposed to or was planned to. When they made Smash Bros Melee it was never meant to be this huge competitive meta driven game, from the core it was a party game.
Just because a competitive scene was created, doesn't mean the game was build for that. That's why so many "casual turned competitive" games need to adjust tournament rules so it would be fair for everyone.
Yu-Gi-Oh TCG was made to promote the show, it became popular to the point Konami started organizing their own events, but the card game was never designed with competitive play in mind, that's why in current tournaments banned card lists can reach multiple pages in length, because they need to adjust the game to suit the tournaments, not the tournaments to suit the game.
@@tnsxpmmelee is one of the most competitive games on Earth lol the game has a very solid gameplay foundation with a community developed meta. There's no blatant broken nonsense in the base game (like tripping or air camping in Brawl) that prevent it from being competitive.
So we going to ignore when competitors do "play seriously";
1. charged ki-blast loops have no counterplay
2. sparking ki-blast spam into ult is OP
Fingers should be pointed at the devs
Yep, right now these strategies are crazy strong and need looking at. If anything, we should be pleased these things were discovered early so the devs can fix it ASAP
@@tyrant_ukthey were discovered super early by people playing ranked and we got ignored and gaslit by the community and the devs. This was justified. Day one patch for online quitters to be penalized is not that complicated and is a given for almost every fighting game these days.
@TrueUnnamedHero did you code the game? Cos unless you did I don't want to hear how easy it is to fix every problem in a game on day 1 from some random
Ki gain, which compromises, skill and Sparking usage, shouldn't be a complex fix. It's just a numerical displayed as a bar.
Theres an easy solution for the e-sport scene:
Include a balanced mode where you make all characters have the same health pool - 3 bars,
Super no 1 deals 8k dmg to everyone,
Super no 2 deals 9k dmg to everyone,
Ultimate deals 16k dmg to everyone,
Make everyone punch and kick for the same amount of dmg to everyone,
Make everyone have the same skills, Wild Sense + something
Leave Hercule the same
Turn off transformations as they do nothing in this mode. Instead people just pick characters they like.
You have a somewhat semi-balanced game.
The gameplay was Cannon. Doc Gero did run for almost 3 episodes.
Great work as usual!
Thank you dear
It's insane that this game has been in the making for "years" yet the online combat just feels so off. The story mode was interesting with certain sparking episodes but i wasnt a huge fan after playing history mode in naruto storm connections. Felt way more tedious than rewarding. Was really hoping the online would have the same spark as fighterz but somehow its just missing. Everything feels like point counting rather than just figuring out cool new combos
There is a right answer. Stop playing this game for money.
exactly not every game is meant to be taken seriously, arena fighters are best with friends always have been, they are a broken unbalanced mess without a code of honor to play by
The tournament had no money tied to it.
@@Cloudstrifehy3"are best with friends" i can’t even play with my friends because this game has no crossplay. They fucked up so much with this game its crazy
Amazing summary, overall very well put, sound arguments/analysis.
And finally someone not trash talking the game/players/devs/bandai as if it was all X or Y faults. Thanks for sharing this with the community, which tends to jump to conclusion too quickly, hopefully it'll help.
Thanks for being a real one, appreciate you man
It is in no way the players' fault: if the optimal way to win is by not playing, that is a game issue. Even if someone is "trying to prove a point," it doesn't matter. Just because it looks lame, doesn't mean the player isn't trying to win; if you're trying to win, you're playing correctly.
Bad game design is not the fault of the player; 1000% game's / devs' fault.
Of course it's the players fault? He gets the chance to play the finals and then he disrespects the devs in their face by playing like a doofus? Games like this will always have bugs, doesn't mean you have to be a 🤡 and show off that you can't win otherwise. And now he is crying about it on Twitter? DQ? On the blacklist with the dude!
@jlau9268 it won't let me edit my comment, but I wanted to add, it's unreasonable to blame the player for bad game design.
@DexyDaddy It's disrespectful for a player in a tournament to use bugs! DQ or blacklist. Simple! Plus area fighters like that ALWAYS have bugs, the only way to resolve this is not to have tournaments at all then. SPORTSMANSHIP dude!! It's even very pretentious of people to think they are above the devs? It's their game, stfu?
@@jlau9268it’s not a bug though, nor is it an exploit. It’s the actual optimal way to play the game and compete. Androids can fly and dash around forever without issue. Flying and dashing around makes you almost impossible to hit. The androids are therefore almost impossible to hit. This means they can charge whatever bars they want, evade all attacks, and then easily punish a mistake with 0 effort or risk. They just need a life lead and a timer. These are basic game mechanics that clearly weren’t tested. There is no bug involved, nor an exploit. Just horrible game design choices by the devs. Tournaments for games that have extremely boring and uncompetitive optimal play that make the game worse have existed forever. They exist because they carefully inspect the game, playtest it competitively, then all agree to a particular set of rules that improve the game by banning characters or outlawing certain strategies. Bandai did none of this. The players didn’t make Bandai look bad, Bandai made Bandai look bad. The only thing they’re embarrassed about is that they presented the game to be played competitively and it turns out their buggy unoptimized game is super boring when played optimally. The game itself is poorly made, and this torjnament just showed that to the entire world live. 100% bandais fault. Didn’t make a half decent game for competitive, and don’t understand how to host a tournament in the slightest.
I dont care who to blame for this. What matters this kind of S need to be fixed ASAP as this breaks the immersion and fun of the game
Facts
I personally think it’s an amazing point he proved! Love to see this, not all heroes wear capes. Let’s get those good changes for the longevity of the game! 🙏🏻
I haven't gotten or played the game yet, or even watched much gameplay but it's funny to me that the issue still exists in the series after all these years. I found it frustrating when the (CPU) opps would spend so much time flying around the arena aimlessly. Doing it in "competitive" matches, in a way that is embarrassing for the devs, is needed in order to hopefully get some changes made. It should all be in good fun at the end of the day tho bc this game definitely isn't meant to be competitive in this manner. Thanks for the explanation tho! ✌🏼
This is straight up the developer's fault. On day one there were already a ton of issues. A week in of dealing with unresponsive controls, busted mechanics (supercounters every 3 hits, perception spam costing no ki) the targetting system being god awful, Low Dp cheese, AIS teams cheese.
And yet they decided to launch an online tournament. Without caring about the player feedback given about the state of online play.
I love Namco, but they deserved to be laughed at for the hubris of releasing the game in this state and immediately trying to jump in the tournament scene with no bug fixes planned prior to the event.
The game is not competitive, is not meant to be competitive, it's mean to be lore accurate, which is not fair at all. So anyone expecting some great competitive balance battles with tons of animations... sorry, not every single fucking game has to be competitive. Chill and have fun guys.
I feel like if we need to put blame, it should be on the tourney staff. If these two play so much that that they play this way pretty much exclusively against each other, the staff should have seen it before inviting them and adjusted the ruleset accordingly. I also agree that the devs should only be to blame after the next patch if nothing is addressed or mentioned about this.
On top of the problems shown some other issues are:
1) Skill bars charge too quickly, and make people spam afterimage strike or insta sparking constantly, and vanishing wars charge them even faster... In bt3 you could use ais a maximum of 2 times per match if you only saved up for it
2) Overall damage is too high, ultimates shouldn't do 20k but 15k max and supers around 7.5k max
3) Skills like AIS, false courage and insta sparking have no malus, in bt3 you would get extremly slow charge, and the fact that you can spam them so often makes them even worse
100% the devs fault. We had people spamming senzu beans since week one and going for time outs. Game doesn't have to be competitive. It can just be a fun party game like Smash bros. But once you try to make it official with tournaments. This is what you get.
Hell, people were mad at Nintendo for year fors not supporting Smash as a competitive fighter even though people were playing it at EVO. But it's not a competitive fighter, and they had 0 intentions of balancing the game as such, so didn't support that style of play. Which is the right call.
If Bandai doesn't like this, then either don't have official tournaments, or balance the game competitively. Guess which one is less work...
It is 100% the players' fault for actually playing like this and the tournament organizers were completely correct to threaten to disqualify them for it.
I think running a tournament circuit with so much money + Battle Hour spot on the line with those rules was asking for trouble (10 min timer is ridiculous).
Hosting free/smaller prize tournaments to feel it out would've been better because you would have seen these problems beforehand.
It feels like whoever was in charge never seen tournament play or gameplay in general.
This #19 and #20 strategy was shown early at TNS and every other tournament bans those characters and had they done their research this situation could have been avoided.
Wait hear me out. Character bans but chosen from the players like each player bans 2 characters, like melee stages
Brilliant ps2 flight sim . Should never be called a fighting game .
Idc its not competitive,I get hit by that in ranked and I'll still call it bs and want that fixed instant,make them lose ki on specific dashes,its just dumb
How to fix this: make the usage of the technique use ki, plus slowering energy for androids.
1:25 my only problem with this is that you can give fault to the game without saying that its a failing on the behalf of the game or its creators- blame and failure are two different things.
"the game has only been out for 3 months- if it had been a year and still like this i agree"
so it is the games fault, since it is a result of the current mechanics of play; BUT we should not consider it to reflect poorly on the developers because of the newness of the game.
First point is so self-absorbed. We know that the developers know this is an intended mechanic.
It's been in high elo gameplay for the whole time the game has been out.
"To dodge supers easily, go up or down"
The issue is that there's a format where timeout ever takes a place in the game.
The funny part was that the staff threatened one guy with DQ while Shiryu just did played the same and he won. Tournament organizers need to study their game and not add 600 second timers when timing out is the best tactic.
Funniest thing ever when the camera cut back to you commentators instead 😂
I was like ???
LOL
This game is butt
Nahhh it is on the devs, we have playtesters for this reason. It's really a very obvious oversight imo.
BUT, in the long run this may be good for Sparking Zero if players want it to be competitive. The community has to go through these types of things. The devs, TO's, and the players should view this as a lesson tbh
Simple fix. Make tournament rules. Doing nothing but avoiding combat = disqualification 🤷♂️ doesn't matter if the character is designed to avoid combat. Ban the characters? But not during the tournament.
Good on him for exposing it 😊
It's not surprising that its broken his early, but it's still the games fault.
Two months to fix readily prevalent issues
Are they doing anything wrong? Brother yes theyre not fighting in a fighting game imagine going to a boxing match and the fighters just march around the ring for the ENTIRE match.
Thats why there are rules in boxing and a ref. People will always do dominant strategy in anything competitive that has a reward. Its up to the people that make the competition to sort that out.
@ fair point
Yeah, the problem is that unlike boxing this is actually how you win. If it were possible to win a boxing match by running away from your opponent, people would be doing that. But there’s a scoring system and rules in place so that you can’t do that. You don’t just ban someone because your rules and game suck when actually put to the test. If it wasn’t the best way to play, they wouldn’t have won. Simple as.
I think the best fix for this would be to add more variation to the tracking ability, size, speed and range to the Blasts. Some players want that regardless. It would be more immersive and fair if Android 19 could not just outrun a Genkidama, Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack, SS Deadly Bomber or even a (bending) Kamehameha without having to vanish at some point. It would also stress the power vs speed aspect a lot more if only very fast characters can do that
I disagree with the statement that the game is not "competitive". Fighting games are always competitive. The very existence of ranked online communicates that. It's a good thing an experienced player doesn't have to deal with someone who doesn't know the basic controls
The devs do care about balance. That's why weaker characters can use their utility skills more often. That's why we have DP battles. And that's why they nerfed Yajirobe. This doesn't need to conflict. Android 19 and Dr. Wheelo are certainly not the end bosses of Dragon Ball GT or Super
What makes the series great is that we can choose to play balanced or not. Hopefully we'll get more customization options for the casual lobby (like ring out, capsules or no flying for the host, guest or both) and PvP custom battles so the game communicates this better
In smash bros Melee, a game its creators and even Nintendo have state in diferent ways "it's NOT a competitive game", had the community discover over time a lot of cheese techs and stalling strategies, which the comunity themselves ended straight up banning them for the sake of making it more competitive. But it's very true that the game is on an early stage so is not yet time to blame the devs, but that doesnt mean that we as a comunity cant do something later on if the devs endes doing nothing
It’s the developer's responsibility to balance a game.
That said, it's a new game, so give the developers some time to work out the balance!
You could argue that the game is meant for casual play rather than tournaments.
In that case, tournaments should establish their own rules. But again, the game is still new, so give it some time to smooth out.
I believe that this game was overall rushed and it just sucks that another game is expected to be better years or months down the line of its life cycle than on release.
It's on the devs. The players can't be faulted for employting the most effective tactics available. The devs are the ones with the power to tweak/balance the game. They might not have known, or predicted this, but it falls on their plate.
This is what happens when bad game design meets sweaty tryhards. The difference between this and other fighting game tournaments is that the mechanic that the pro players feel is key to their success isn't counters, stringing combos that are hard to break out of, and special attack bar management, but probably some sort of spacing issue. So instead of the players doing something entertaining like testing their opponent with different attacks, they're running back and forth to try and get the ideal distance from their opponent to even begin fighting.
It is absolutely bad game design. The shooting around is pretty much emblematic of a DBZ game, but it introduces a game mechanic that incentivizes the players to disengage. Probably with the idea that they'll only disengages occasionally and not continuously for 10 fucking minutes.
The game wasn't meant for competitive play makes a competitive tournament
Everyone; "HEY THIS IS BROKEN!AAHHHHHH!"
ME; "Well yea...kinda expected this in an unbalanced game...especially with ruthlessly competitive people."
The third.
Game actually bounced their mechanics out.This game simply does not on any level. So several of the games mechanics go unchecked and it creates problematic and unfun game play loops
You don’t have to shill just because you did commentary for the game bro. They had a blueprint for the game they chose to not follow. It is absolutely the devs fault this was possible in the first place.
I'm not shilling come on relax. I'm saying it's too early to put full blame because it's been out 6 weeks. I clearly said in the video I'd agree if the game had been out for longer and was still like this. But the groundwork is there, they just need to patch out the dumb stuff like this.
@ I apologize for being disrespectful I would understand if this was the first game of its kind but it’s not. At worst this game should’ve been BT3.5 but they didn’t bother to do that and removed a lot of balancing mechanics that didn’t enable the type of play we witnessed at the tournament. I fully believe this game was rushed, there is no other explanation for how this game released in the state it did.
@pepppepp276 yeah I think we can all agree there needs to be big fixes moving forward if they want people to stay invested in the game. Thanks for watching
Agreed. The shilling just keeps the devs and company from having to take responsibility for their failures.
@TrueUnnamedHero if I was shilling do you think I would make a video bringing light to a strategy that makes the game look bad? Use your fucking brain moron
Just proves BT series is never designed to be competitive in any capacity. It's a game at it's best when playing with like minded people who just want to have fun
It's games/devs fault that there are bullshits like this but it's players/community fault to organise tournament in the game that wasn't meant to be esport and THEN complain about absurdities.
"It would be the game's fault if the game was out for a year and they didn't fix it" if it needs a fix, it's the game's fault. Case closed. Testing and balancing prelaunch is done for a reason
Character bans isn’t a bad thing, do something similar to COD rank where they limit things they can use such as weapons and attachments
Also big streamers do this running away thing and it’s very annoying
This game just sucks
Nah
The game is hot ass
In this current state the game is absolutely terrible they need to go in balance characters in balance move sets and overall fix the game they sold as a broken game and suspect everybody to be happy with it
@lancelot2833 if you want balanced, play any other fighting game. Sparking Zero is BT4, the BT series has NEVER been balanced. It's a casual arena fighter that's designed to reflect that certain characters are just weaker or stronger than others
No it doesn't, you and far too much people have become spoiled whining brats, that's the problem. People are dying in Ukraine and you are complaining about a vid game 🤡
Imma be in the japan tourney imma do the same if have to… im not finna lose for people’s entertainment. Shoutout to my brother Quyon and Globku. W Biscuit too for showin love to u and jake yall did phenomenal on comms true legends of the game. I respect hilli and shryxu very bold and brave attempt for change. The only reason this happened is because of the history of devs and companies not being in tune with the arena fighter community. W video and great insights fam.🙏🏾
Appreciate you brother and good luck in the Japan tourney!
"Don't hate the player hate the game. " -Albert Einstein
Of course this is on the developers, how can you possibly argue otherwise? Having a glaring flaw like this on release means that at no point during development did they ask the question "What if Gero or 19 just keep flying away because we gave them infinite dragon dash?". It was a bad, shortsighted decision with obvious consequences as highlighted by the tournament.
Saying "It's not meant to be competitive" is pure copium, can we please retire that sentiment? It's a blatant excuse for busted and lame tech that could have been avoided if they thought more critically about how people would end up playing their game. Sure the game is new so we have the hope that it'll get fixed, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with calling out lameness for what it is. How long does this have to stay in the game before it's okay to complain about it? "How is it the games fault?" is a nonsensical question.
Good on the players of the grand finals for highlighting these issues, hope the message is received.
It is the game's fault. Three months is considered long for simply game system like SZ. Expect there will be repeats of infinite flying in the upcoming tournaments
Let's hope the next balance patch fixes this style of play
Remove timeout
Force all fights on tournament stage with ringout
True Dragon Ball feeling
I look at this like super smash bros wavedashing. I'm not gonna blame the developers for the players abusing mechanics. Any competitive community has no problem banning things that are too broken or powerful.
In this case it's the players. Not the developers. 😊
Just make a banlist for tournaments or just simply make draft picks...
So each match will start with players banning certain characters of their choosing. MOBA's do it all the time
nah dude it is most definetly the developers fault.
I say this because what these pros did is actually also the most efficient way to waste time when your opponent is in sparking mode which is insane to me since that is not skillfull at all
Want fair competitions? Random selection, 10 matches.
I mean, sure, there's no way the developers could know something like this could happen, it's not like they could have a group of people playing the game for a couple of weeks before releasing the game... oh wait...
it's funny that this isn't not ok but throwing an opponent in te corner and green dashing all the screen is ok
8:48 I'm going to extrapolate and say the same thing about throw loops in SF6 (yes I saw Broski's video)
Just because something is allowed doesn't mean it should be done. This is both the game's fault (for its mechanics and expecting better things from cheap players nowadays) and the players' fault. I get that you want to prove a point in the prettiest way. But, there's an upcoming patch already announced, which means measures are being taken and you could've just shown the broken mechanics for a few moments and then throw hands. Fixes are coming, what are you protesting about for so long?! You don't see boxers start a fight and have one of them avoid his opponent the whole match. I do believe DQ was in order
How would the devs not have thought about moving up and down on a character that regens ki
A kid would've found that out