For me, the removal of Sokka unlearning his sexism has less impact on his character, and more impact on SUKI’S character. Suki in the cartoon is utterly uninterested in even being so much as a friend to Sokka until he changes his attitude towards women and admits that she is a better combatant than him and makes himself willing to learn from her, at which point she allows herself to grow closer to him and finds his personality endearing. In the live action, however, with this aspect of their relationship dynamic being removed, Suki (while still being a very capable warrior) becomes a sheltered girl who is drawn to Sokka because he represents the outside world, something she has never experienced. She seems much more naïve to the realities of the war-torn world outside of Kyoshi Island, and follows him around like a lost puppy asking him to tell her stories about his life and then falls in love with him because he “brought the world to her”. By removing his sexism, they somehow made their show even MORE sexist by reducing Suki down to a shell of her cartoon self.
Agreed it more impacts Suki. But she’s a secondary character and when they have so little time to fit the original story in, is it worth it to develop a non-main character to such a degree? Up to each one’s opinion but I do not begrudge them for making the choice to prioritize other things.
@@gregatkins2156 Well, the live action show has almost as much time* as what the animated version did. And they kept wasting theirs. Also, giving character growth to a secondary character, reflected on the growth of a main one, is a really wonderful move. Even more when that character is supposed to play such an important role later on.
@@gregatkins2156 For one, Suki becomes a more important character later (and the amount of time they spent on Sokka/Suki in the episode suggests the writers are setting that up). But even leaving that side there are two major problems with your argument. First, they actually spent a whole (longer) episode on the Kyoshi Island story in the live action so clearly they did not have a problem with devoting time/attention to that portion of the story. The writers/showrunners specifically chose to use that time to give us a more generic meet cute story for Suki/Sokka where she falls for him simply because he exists (the writers repeatedly have character do this - Sokka rarely actually does anything to deserve the praise he gets in the live action). Second, Suki's development doesn't take up additional time for itself, she gets characterized along with Sokka. In the animated show you see her pride (both when she rejects Sokka's sexist attitude but also when she agrees to train him, explains her uniform and even is a sore loser when he beats her once). This doesn't take additional time from the story since it's a part of the story. You get both Sokka's initial growth and arc of maturing and becoming the man and leader he needs to be AND you get to understand both Suki and why she likes Sokka which in turn sets up her return in season 2. In short there's absolutely nothing lost by using the time they spent on a WORSE version of the story to actually give us better versions of BOTH characters. And I would note that the change to Sokka also weakens Katara's character and their relationship so it's a double whammy. Instead we got less developed/interesting characters and relationships and spent just as much (or more!) time to get it.
They removed sokka's short sexism arc, and replaced it with the writers admitting their own sexism towards katara by removing any character trait of her's that the worst of the fandom back in the day hated. Modern script writing is in the gutter
"A vocal minority of people openly percieved Katara's defiant and domineering nature as bitchiness." So they removed fictional sexism as "problematic" while catering to actual sexism. How ironic.
Actually if you watch to the end of the season they didn't remove sexism entirely. Pakku and the Northern Water Tribe still had sexism in this show, it's just Sokka's sexism was removed.
The problem isn't that they removed Sokka's sexism... Its that they felt the need to remove it even though the original was ALREADY heavily anti-sexism. Every time anyone does or says anything sexist, its immediately challenged and proven wrong by one of the female characters.
My favorite example of this was when Sokka said "don't answer to 'Twinkle Toes,' it's not manly" and Katara responds "you're the one who's bag matches his belt."
The other issue with Sokka' Sexism being removed is that it destroys the relationship arc between him and Suki. Before, Suki was a competent, hardworking warrior girl doing her own thing.. Sokka insulted her. She showed him up. Sokka realized he'd insulted someone with the kinds of skills he otherwise deeply respects, just because she's a girl. Sokka humbles himself and apologizes for his mistake. It's that quality of humility, and sincerity as he wears women's clothing to prove his dedication to Suki and the other women, that makes him attractive to Suki. And then she learns to genuinely appreciate the skills he has cultivated, as well as how quick of a student he is. In the live action she's a Disney princess who wants more than this provincial life. She gloms onto Sokka because he's new and different. And she shows him up, making him feel like an unskilled rube for no reason other than she can. She trains him and I don't know if you've ever studied marital arts, but she doesn't do it right. It's clearly just an excuse to flirt with him and touch him inappropriately. And Suki is reduced from a strong, independent woman to a Sokka fan girl. Getting rid of Sokka's Sexism destroyed Suki.
It hurts his relationships more I would say. His relationship with both Katara (mostly early on) and Suki are negatively influenced by his lack of sexism at the start of the show. His relationships with Aang and Toph aren’t hurt as badly, if at all. Even if Katara wasn’t decimated by the show, their early relationship wouldn’t have been as complex.
It s not the issue of sexism. It the issue of characters with no flaws, no asperities, no personnalities. They ve been completely "sanitized". The sexism could have easily been replaced with pride. Sokka is the strongest warrior in his village and can t conceive that other warriors of an other nation are stronger than him. Gets humiliated. Humbled. Acknowledge he was wrong, asks to be taught. Boom mini character arc saved. Suki is ok to fall for him because he still shows that he is a smart man who can overcome his beliefs The netflix wanted perfect characters, but only wrote bland one. Insipide. Aang isn t the coward who ran away from responsabilities and now has to deal with guilt. Katara isn t the feisty motherly figure of the group, but a meek girl who gets powerful because plot armor. Boring. You can tell the whole fire nation family drama got botched too. Toph is next to go through the netflix nepotism blender... It s just sad.
Sokka didn't have to be necessary a sexist. However he needed to have any similar flaw he could grow up from. They could have changed the flaw instead of just removing it completely.
Sokka’s initial character is one of many individually small flaws which build up into a great mountain. His arc is climbing the mountain, and his first baby step is coming to reconcile with his misconceptions of women. Take away the first step, and suddenly the climb makes less sense.
Very ironic that the showrunners said they were trying to be less sexist by toning down Sokka, but ended up being sexist anyway over how Suki ends up falling for him. In the OG show, she grew to respect him when he wizened up. In the Netflix show, she's *instantly* horny for him. There's no set-up and payoff for any of the characters in the latter show; like you've said, it ends up becoming very bland. Everyone's flaws and personalities become extremely diluted; no wonder fans joke we're watching a play from the Ember Island Prayers.
I think it’s hilarious that these idiots’ attempt to make the show “less sexist” and “iffy” they made the show more sexist, the women less complex and nuanced and more tied into the men of the series affecting them, and somehow made the men the only characters of the show that matter as opposed to the original series where they both mattered. The original series was a firm stand against sexism and treating women as inferior. The remake however has Katara as a side character in Aang’s story, Sokka showing Suki the world as opposed to her teaching him something, Yue having none of the complexity and courage she had despite not being a bender, and Azula showing none of the sheer prowess and terror that she is supposed to have. And Sokka instead of having the complex and multilayered arc he has in the original show, he learns nothing, he says nothing, he feels like nothing. The live action remake failed all of the female characters. Every single one of them and I’m not even exaggerating. I could go through every single one that was shown and talk about how the Albert Kim and his team singlehandedly ruined or missed the point of each female character. All of them were ruined by this remake.
@@squiddler7731 Can't wait for Toph to be turned into a lesser version of herself and knowing Albert and his team's terrible writing, she's going to probably bitch and moan about her blindness and think of it as a weakness when the original show made it very clear that her disability is her superpower.
@@GloomdrakeTheir going to remove her conflict with Katara. Toph and Katara budding friendship was fun in the original but it started off as Toph pushing her buttons.
The problem is that the creatives behind NATLA pulled a piece of the jenga tower away without understanding how it affects the whole tower. Everything in ATLA is very deliberate and people who say "oh it's not a big deal, it's just one small thing, it's only relevant for 4 episodes anyways" are missing the bigger picture here in the exact same way. By removing it, they've caused a ripple effect that significantly impacts the larger narrative. This change affected: - The character introduction of Sokka - The world building and implication about the culture of the Southern Water Tribe - Katara's Introduction - Katara's latent potential ability as a water bender - Suki's Introduction - Sokka's greater character arc and journey of personal growth. All of these things are crucial to the story being told, they are not the things that SHOULD be changed in an adaptation. A change can seem small, but have a domino effect on the whole story, and NATLA does this constantly. ./endrant
Same with the fire nation changes in natla. By changing iroh s timeline, his relationship with zuko, ozai and azula s threat power etc... A lot of build up is taken out or lade impossible. Making later pay off not happening. Why would zuko betray iroh at the znd of book2 now? Why would iroh be part of the white lotus? Why would we feel emotionnal in the tales of ba sing se? These were rookie mistakes. But just check who the head writer for the netflix is (albert kim). He s a sports journalist... This whole adaptation is just a sad joke.
@@lyswenn glad you could find some wisdom in my yapping! 😂 and even better, glad to see there are so many smart fans out there that get why this adaptation just ain't it. Be easy, everyone ☺
Removing Sokka’s sexism has a snowball effect. It removes Suki’s characterization and the culture of the Northern Water Tribe. It waters down Katara’s passion for waterbending and her fiery attitude. I despise what they did to Suki so much. Simping for Sokka and they made her dislike the way they lived in Kyoshi island simply because she met Sokka and that was less than a day wth
I agree. It was mostly the wording for me. It presented Sokka’s problematic behaviour as the show itself being casually sexist and a “product of its time.” If this remake didn’t understand that a depiction of something isn’t an endorsement, especially a depiction of sexism that was so obviously anti-sexism, how can I trust it with flawed characters who went through amazing arcs as they grew and improved as people?
It feels like the show was really afraid of giving the characters flaws. Completely forgetting that the characters are actually kids who have a lot of growing up to do, and who also have unhealed trauma because they were raised in an ongoing war
In a way they've ended up making Sokka more sexist. Cartoon Sokka may have relied too heavily on Katara to cook and do his laundry, but live-action Sokka talks down to her and treats her like a silly little girl who needs to grow up and get wise. Which brings us to the crux of the problem. In the Netflix version, that’s pretty much what Katara is. They've stripped away her nurturing, motherly qualities, so central to her character in the cartoon, and left instead this wide-eyed, nieve child who's nothing like the original character. In the cartoon, although Sokka is the elder sibling, as often as not Katara acts as the more mature of the two, she kind of carries group, looking out for everyone else's needs, sometimes before her own. It's this mix of being caring and nurturing but also a formidable warrior that makes her one of my favourite fictional characters and one I uphold as a positive female role model. Then, as you rightly pointed out, there's the issue that stripping Sokka of his flaws strips him of his character growth. In the cartoon, when we first meet Sokka he comes across as kind of jerk but it's all set up and paid off beautifully in a way that ends up making him all the more likable. The moment where Katara is preparing to go off alone to look for Aang, and Sokka fetches the boat to show that he's coming too is so powerful because it's the first time we see his caring, supportive side. Also, not always having to be the mature one of the group allows him to have some funny moments like getting high on cactus juice. He doesn't have to be reduced to a mere comic relief character to provide some great moments of comic relief.
Things that makes sense because of sokka's sexism: 1. katara being angry enough to break aang out the iceberg, i.e the catalyst for the entire show 2. Suki proving something to sokka, the catalyst for their entire relationship 3. Sokka feeling like he is the leader of an entire tribe at a young age, what his 61 episode arc centers. Without sexism, it doesnt make sense for him to believe himself a more qualified leader and warrior than the several other adult women in his tribe 4. Katara being fed up with her sexist culture, Katara is FED UP by the time she reaches Pakku and this anger drives her to prove herself and become an extremely capable waterbender, without Sokka's sexism, she literally only encounters it for the first time in the north, not much of a catalyst 5. Katara feeling like Sokka, her older brother, was as close to his mom and Sokka putting Katara's face in that role because-- SEXISM -- katara was forced to assume that role. Which sokka bought into...because sokka is sexist. None of these major arcs or storylines make any sense without sokka being sexist. And the scenes that ignore sokka being sexist playso stupidly like Kyoshi being mad that sokka called her a "warrior" instead of a kyoshi, DUMB. Katara breaking the ice by pointing her hands at a boat calmly...? DUMB
It matters in the sense that the way he meets Suki would change without it and the connection between his tribe and the north would be slightly less significant, and devalued in the scheme of world building. Idk how much of an issue this might cause if it was eliminated, I’d like to think that if the story telling and writing is good, it wouldn’t matter
everybody is boring and has no real character or flaws, Katara is the worst example of this. I was relatively okay with Aang and Zuko's characterizations though, maybe because they had more to do
Anyone who says Sokka doesn’t have a character arc and isn’t only A comedic relief didn’t pay attention to the show. Also I’d like to mention his sexism definitely last longer in the show than 4 episodes. Yes it’s greatly improved on after he meets the Kyoshi Warriors however it’s still there by the time the Firenation attacked Ba Sing Se with the Drill, “JUST BEND THE SLURRY WOMAN!!!” -Sokka. At the start of the show, He’s got the traditional mindset of Man fight and protect, Woman Nurture and take care of home stuff Near the middle he’s come to learn women can be just as capable as a man in combat and even can be learned from to improve himself, But he still has a somewhat controlling attitude towards them and doesn’t 100% trust that they’ll deliver By the end, He’s a great leader who knows some of his greatest assets are his Female Comrades, Putting his full trust in Suki to do her own thing during the Airship raid in the last Battle. It’s a Full arc that I can’t reasonably do justice on without sitting down and watching it with people to explain it but it’s a great character arc that I feel gets way too overlooked, And it is definitely something that was needed in the live action show. Otherwise a lot of his character arc just doesn’t happen.
I honestly don’t care about the changes, I just want them to get the characters right. If they take away key aspects of almost every major then what’s the point? I also want point almost everyone likes the fire nation characters because their key traits are not removed from the show. Why can’t that treatment be given to main three characters? Would really kill them to make Katara sassy and passionate? Would really kill them let Aang goof off instead of just telling us that he likes to goof off? Would it kill them to actually watch season 1 of the animated series before they made snap judgements and piss everyone off!?
I m as disappointed in the fire nation. Iroh isn t that laid back dude of the original. Zuko isn t angry. Ozai is a weak old man who get s his butt kicked by a 13 years old... Azula, ugh, got demoted from absolute threat to angsty teen. They are all watered down versions. Shallower and with messed up timelines so that later pay off won t happen. It s a mess.
omg i finally watched your analysis of hair in atla after seeing it for a while, and now i'm watching this, and then i went to your profile and saw a deep dive on the district 4 tributes??? i am eating good tonight. thank you
I seriously don’t understand how the Netflix model of renewal works. Like is it just if the shows creates buzz, even if it’s the wrong kind of buzz. If it is than that’s a really lousy way to do it since that doesn’t tell us anything about the quality of the show, or about how many people that actually enjoy it
Why can't show runners ever get this simple rule right? It's very simple: don't screw with the source material; your vision does not matter when you're stealing and profiting off other people's work and calling it IP.
Because show runners run into the same issue when adapting a large body of source material into a much smaller adaptation body of work, and that’s time. Could they have taken some moments to quickly highlight original attributes of all of the characters when they only have 8 episodes to squish several more original episodes worth of material in? Sure. And they tried to. But at the end of the day they have to pick and choose what is most important to the story they want to tell, and they can’t possibly fit every detail into a new adaptation. Sokka’s sexism is not that important in the grand scheme of things, as the video creator shows..
If we are adapting a show into another medium, we should be making changes of some sort. The original IP isn’t an untouchable holy text you must always adhere to. Adding detail, tweaking sequence of events or shifting tone between the adaptions isn’t the problem. Without those, why are we even bothering with this adaptation at all? The issue is a lot of these changes (including Sokka’s sexism) seem to undermine the core messages, themes or overarching narratives in some way. The change isn’t worth the trade they made, but the problem isn’t the fact that they made a change.
@@NathanMeyers-nt3pf Right, but that's nuance, so it may as well be. You aren't trying to change my mind here, you're trying to change the mind of a multimillionaire exec who doesn't even use the internet or watch the media his corporation pumps out.
They made Sokka boring Katara passive Aang too serious Suki only existing for a man Iroh not containing nearly enough positive masculinity as OG Iroh does Zuko not being allowed to be seen as a villain first Azula not being intimidating Ozai not being cold and distant enough as OG Ozai Pakku not being a potential relative Bumi being a boomer Gran Gran tryna be a main character Gyatso not being OP enough Wan Shi Tong is just some random bird now Mei and Tylee are just.. there Yue became a furry who's a bit too happy about her tragic past Kyoshi into a screeching owl And Appa and Momo being reduced to furniture!
It's also the one big controversial thing that they leaked so what else were they gonna jump on? 🤦♂To say: "Oh, well why do they have a problem with specifically that?" is just divisive. Anyway I'm gonna add to the protectiveness of Sokka of Katara, cause it hammers your point home nicely. There is one scene where you clearly see it. When Katara gets burned Sokka slams Aang to the ground like "What have you done to her?" You're almost taken aback with the fierceness of his reaction. Avatar or not. No one hurts his sister and lives. There's _good_ and bad mixed in his overall world view and it's complex and beautiful to unpack. Nice work, I really enjoyed this.
This, but also Sokka losing his sexism arc causes Katara, Suki and Yue to have different interactions with him and ultimately affect who they are as characters (Yue to a lesser extent but still). Katara’s fiery personality was perfectly pit up against Sokka embodying systems that are wrong within their culture. Her learning to deal with sexism on a peer-level, and moving on to deal with an adult later on shows her resolve and strength to achieve what she wants. Suki went from someone who challenges Sokka’s world view and him challenging hers to Suki thirsting after an outsider and thanking him for existing within her space. Everything Sokka learns from Suki is supposed to give him the point of view to help her go through with doing things her way and in turn helps him with processing grief. Sokka learning to not discredit those who are deemed weak by society is part of what helps him learn to be a great leader. Getting to know woman who are warriors and getting to know disabled characters help shape his inventive and compassionate spirit. This is why it bothers me. Not only that, but now is a great time to have arcs that show men unlearning those toxic traits! So many young men are being taught harmful things around woman, the disabled and other minorities and Sokka could have been what helped some kid realize they’re wrong.
I am extremely mad that they took out Sokka's sexism, but not for the reason that some would think. To me, Sokka's sexism isn't as important to his character arc as some would say it is. Don't get me wrong, it is still very important to the story as a whole, but not for his arc. Instead, his sexism is reason why they even found Aang in the first place, if that is not a good reason why I hate Netflix's decision, idk what is.
i think sokka's sexism is something that makes or breaks his character. it's his first major character arc. it bleeds into his character as one of the most positive representations of traditional masculinity while contrasting the traditional femininity of his sister, both of them very surprisingly taking these archaic symbols of gender norms and distilling them into what people should take away from them. it's absolutely a core part of his character. it's deeply rooted in his culture and the way he was raised, and genuinely is a part of his personality. at the start, obviously it shows itself in a less positive way, but it's a completely natural starting point for him considering all these points, and leaves him open for great, (and i mean in both ways) GREAT change. he was raised in a traditional village, and while not outwardly sexist like the north, the south definitely abided by gender norms to a tea, especially as the raids whittled down the female fighters, only the housewives were left, giving reason to his shallow perspectives on the whole ordeal. his father entrusts the women of the village and his sister to him, saying he has to protect them. he sees them work away, doing menial labour, and as a young boy, he is taken care of. his childhood obviously instills sexism in him, but the root cause is a genuine, caring and protective viewpoint. it coming from a genuine place is what lets sokka let go of his pride so quickly, (alongside his incredible humility and desire to grow and learn of course) and want to train with the kyoshi warriors. his whole world is turned upside down in a day, and he learns to see how girls can indeed be warriors and take on roles he sees as only for men. back to the water tribes, yue reinforces this idea as sokka is once again told to protect her, and in his eyes, he fails to. after having his sexism be stripped from his viewpoint on the idea of protecting others he holds dear, his next meeting with suki ends up being literally one of the sweetest moments in the entire franchise as suki mistakes his genuine care for his old stupid macho schtick, but sokka time and time again showcases that it is indeed a genuine core of his character, and this time, it's not misguided. he IS different than paku, who showcases systematic sexism and actual misogyny. i think this all culminates in the finale, where he and toph are tumbling all around. while this is also an incredible finale of tophs character arc of relying on others, sokka, the former sexist dumbass teen, shielding toph with his body, not because he views her as feeble, incapable or weak because of her attributes or even in need of his help, but because he genuinely cares, and as a man AND her friend, he views it as his duty to protect her. we've seen time and time again how strong toph is in comparison to sokka, and how she's one of the strongest fighters of her era, and she probably hasn't even neared her peak yet. yet sokka, the non-bending scrawny teenage boy pretty much is ready to die for her under metal rubble, even if she probably has a better chance of protecting herself without his help considering her bending anyways. it doesn't even come to his mind that she's a girl or let alone blind, (maybe even that she's his dear friend at that very second) he does it instantly. all in all, i think sokkas sexism is akin to like a shitty muddy gold medal, it's something like grime covering the gold interior which is scrubbed off as the plot moves along, unlike paku's sexism, which is pretty much a weed or a stray hair that needs to be plucked and disposed of. i think it's also incredibly neat that the two village bumpkins, after being pushed to their limits are like carbon being squeezed into actual diamonds. they take everything their traditional upbringing has taught them, remove the wrongs and in the end they end up as probably one of the best representations of traditional gender roles and what they could be, which in a cast of such diverse character arcs, is like the backbone that holds up characters that subvert these tropes like toph or aang. tl;dr I THINK sokka's sexism is a shallow outward manifestation of what becomes one of his best traits later on, just like katara's bossy overbearing attitude, which was also removed in this dogshit show.
pretty sure the point of the backlash was that ppl didnt like how the writers seemed to have not understood the point of the sexism and those ppl were right when you see how the natla writers completely butchered nearly all the female characters and ADDED unintentionally sexist scenes
While you are awake, my heart comes undone, slowly unravels. In a ball of yarn, the devil collects it with a grin, our love in a ball of yarn. He'll never return it, he'll never come back, we'll have to make new love.
how i saw sokka and katara's relationship was sokka being the *younger* sibling, because katara is seen frequently reminiscing about her mother, includinf details, while sokka barely remmbers her, instead saying that when he pictures his mother, all he sees is katara. he pritects her in a way that a little brother would protect his big sister, or a son protect his mother. sokka being non-sexist would ruin katara's attitude (being a caretaker to a bratty, problematic boy is stressful, i would know), and suki's entire arc of trusting and eventually loving him. it makes his initial deafeat by zuko more silly, because he isnt fueled by his views of what a man "should be", it doesnt impact Aang all that much, and hes the only character that is doesnt impact. it leaves no room for his father to connect with him and teach him why he has these beliefs in the forst place, and why theyre wrong. all-in-all, you cant get rid of this aspect of his arc without getting rid of depth and reactions from many other characters. thats not even mentioning his mentor, who teaches him maturity and humility. hes a 15 year old boy, and 15 year old boys are immature and often sexist. especially with my headcannon of him being younger than katara, 13 or 14.
Personally, I don’t find the issue is the lack of sexism but the lack of a true set up for a narrative arc for Sokka’s character and not replacing it with something that conveys similar concepts. I think the sexism was a good thing for his character to grow from but removing that aspect doesn’t means you need to remove the standard concepts presented because of it builds into. For example, to me Sokka putting on the Kyoshi warrior’s outfit and having Suki explain it to him directly tells us the narrative journey Sokka will go on and traits he strengthens. Horror, heroism, bravery, and loyalty. Sokka’s journey is told to us very early on in the show, and in a very clean way without having to constantly tell us when it is happening. From this scene on we really get Sokka being a genuine leader- and from his growth from being more than just a physically fighter he grows into using his genuine intelligence. Sokka is comic relief but due is also a genius in science, literature, life skills like mapping, and growing to navigate personal relationships. All which come from him learn to let go of not just sexism but what is concepts of “masculinity” and “femininity” to just be himself. In the show it focuses so much in Sokka almost being a realized character from the start while putting blame on other forces. Suki doesn’t help Sokka because he begs and shows he genuinely wanted to learn to be better, it becomes some weird sexually charged scene denying what is honorable fighting. It personally feels weird choosing to make Suki’s livelihood and deeply respected fighting style their charged up romantic plot to fill in the fact Sokka’s goal was to grow as a person- not just a warrior. It then never gives him a reason to explore himself more and shifts blame onto others, like his inventing skills. The show would rather butcher every other minor character than let Sokka grow and be good at something that he held back from needing to explore on his own. They don’t end choosing to change his narrative arc, they choose to skip the arcs and hope it they can fit enough in those gaps will be made up through just telling us. I find levels of complexities that Sokka’s sexism brought to match the real world and often why some young boys turn into Sokka’s original path. Removing it isn’t a big deal, but it personally limits the scope of a backstory for the characters that doesn’t need to be told to the audience word for word but inferred, making the audience thing and have to piece points. It’s treated them as being a smart enough to come to understand Sokka without having to think he was ever in the rightz That being said is if needed, no, but the show never tried to fill in Sokka’s own personal gaps properly choice to either take Katara’s or wipe them out with heart eyes and sexual tension. Also we know past water benders we’re allowed to fight regardless of being a man or women, but sadly by Sokka’s youth (and Katara’s) all had been taken so he really has no connection to seeing that sort of actions. I bet most elders like gran gran wouldn’t like taking about it either given the raids being a point of tragedy.
You really hit the nail on the head. It's not the first time live-action creators listen to the WORST and laziest criticisms of the media they're adapting, which is why I can't stand this genre of content in general.
Glad for your input. The collective obsession over Sokka’s “lost” misogyny has been absurd. He’s still sexist, it’s just toned down and more subtle - which works better in live action. For all the valid writing criticisms of this show, the Sokka-related ones are the most odd to me.
I feel like the removal of Sokka's sexism inadvertently removed a lot of Katara's growth. Katara was raised in a sexist society in the same way that Sokka was and that had a profound effect on her and her journey with Aang. She was expected to grow up faster than Sokka because she needed to fill in for her mom due to her mom's passing. Thats why shes overbearing and a bit domineering. Most of her negative traits stem from the fact that she needed to grow up before she could emotionally mature. As the series goes on, she starts to grow out of the need to parent aang/toph/sokka. Thats like what 90% of toph/katara's rocky parts of their friendship. Removing the southern water tribes sexism inadvertently lead them to make Katara a sexist caricature.
To summarise the comments: "You've become the very thing you've sought to destroy!" For in light of removing Sokka's sexism, they somehow turned it more sexist.
i’m not saying they didn’t have a better vision or that they are incompetent because i think it’s likely that studio execs gave them an unmovable deadline. i just wish even ONE of the people who had to sign off on this show cared at all about the content and world because frankly, nobody who likes Avatar should have given this the green light in its current state unless motivated by cash
To add, by the start of the show, all of the waterbenders of the southern water tribe had been systematically taken out except for Katara. It would not be surprising if some of Sokka's attitude in the beginning comes from fear of his sister meeting the same fate as the other waterbenders
This is emblematic of my issues with modern media. The idea idea that any depictions of bigotry is somehow an endorsement regardless of context. Its so bad that people complain when villains are bigots.
All in all, it’s bad writing! No wonder the original creators left the project, I would have too. Having sanitising water down protagonists in a TV show that literally is directly grappling with and exploring the realities of being a child of war is kind of ridiculous. Part of it makes avatar so amazing, that part of work makes anything decent writing, is having complex characters, and having characters that go on narrative arcs where they evolve over time. How can your characters grow and change, if they have a little flaws? that would automatically make any storyline not worth watching? unless of course it’s like a slice of life or something
Sokka never thought women or their role was "inferior". And he definitely does not fall under the same category as other characters. You're making things up with assumptions. There was absolutely no reason or logic to Sokka being sexist. He never saw his father treat his mother with sexism as you claimed. Sokka was born, grew up and raised... all he knew was the Southern Water Tribe. A place where female Waterbenders have fought against Firebenders during invasions before. The Fire Nation ship trapped in the ice is evident of that. This was shown during Hamma's flashback. Also Gran Gran left the Northern Water Tribe to come to the Southern Water Tribe.... Sokka was made sexist to create "room for growth" as something that would be seen so from a time/audience that view and continue to view traditional gender roles as something not welcomed anymore. And breaking out from them is empowering, revolutionary and trendy. And very well accepted and commended especially by females. Which brings me to the connection between Sokka and Katara. His sexism served as something Katara can go off to display her strong and rebellious personality, to traditional gender roles. The goal of the writers was accomplished, very well accepted and applauded. Even if it didn't make as much sense as commonly having Inuits with blue eyes. Which is something that they can get away with in animation but difficult to do in live-action. Especially when there's a mob of angry fans that are ok accepting it in animated format. But go crazy in live-action because now it's a misrepresentation since it's about Whitewashing.
i recently got into the live action, i was hesitant at first cause airbender was my shit wen the cartoon came out. first episode was pretty much the same way i remember the first episode of the cartoon version...then it came less n less the same way. i pissed that the earthbender chick in the cartoon isnt blind in the live action version and i dont recall her being a "warrior" in the cartoon. that was a huge no go. i may finish the first season but idk yet
I think you're mixing Toph up with someone else? I haven't watched the live action show but Toph doesn't show up until season 2, so she wouldn't be in this season. A warrior who can see sounds more like Suki?
In defense of Pakku and ''sexism'' such as his: That's how all wars were waged. Why? Two reasons. First and foremost, it's a simple reality that men are better warriors due to physical and mental disparities. Guns and in ATLA's world bending are great equalizers, but not entirely. Modern military tests prove that a hundred times over. But the second and arguably even more important reason: Children. Put one woman on an island with a hundred men, the island can have a population of 102-103 the next year at best. Put one man on an island with a hundred women, you can have an island with a population of 201-301 the next year, possibly more. If you send your women to fight while the opposing side does not, you will lose a prolonged conflict 10/10 times. One generation of losses is all it'd need for them to wipe you out through sheer numbers. I think it's unfair to claim the structure seen in the Northern Water Tribe is wrong and outdated. It's easy to write it off as senseless sexism from a 2024 privileged lens. The sole reason we can think that way is because we're living comfortably in the suburbs. It isn't just silliness. It's necessary. I didn't even get the feeling that Pakku was sexist himself. Sexism is defined as ''prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.'' (note also how it specifies against women, which is pretty damn wrong). The only one you could argue he falls under is the last one, and again, that's a rule of wartime. There's definitely no prejudice from his end. He straight up complimented Katara on her abilities. If she hadn't insulted and challenged him, I daresay he likely would've taught her even before finding out she was the granddaughter of his betrothed. But one exception does not make the rule. That is why I always liked that in the original, Katara does not change the entire structure of the Northern Water Tribe the way she does in that atrocity of a live action series. She's simply the exception because her being so does not harm the Tribe. She's not there to stay anyway. She's off with the Avatar. So her becoming a warrior doesn't damage the ability of the water tribe to bolster their ranks after suffering casualties in war. If she dies in battle, the water tribe doesn't suffer. Only Team Avatar will, and they'll be elsewhere. There's a lot more nuance to this than people want to admit. For example, Katara is the last waterbender of the Southern Tribe, and only because they hid her bending, something her mother died for. That's an interesting subliminal message the showrunners placed in there. Gran-Gran and a few other female waterbenders ran away from the Northern Tribe because of theirs and Pakku's ''sexism'', and they all went extinct. They weren't able to reproduce faster than they got captured and/or killed. The sole reason Katara and the tribe survived was because they were literally nothing to the Fire Nation anymore. Not even worth a single ship to put the final nail in the coffin. That's a pretty strong message. The Northern Water Tribe has the right of it. The sole reason they lived, was the structure they maintained. They kept their ranks filled, and their soldiers safe. That was the responsibility of the women. Meanwhile the responsibility of the men was to fight and die. I've always wondered why women glorify the latter as though it's something to aspire to. 99% Of men don't want to die or get brutally maimed in war. The women claiming they do change their tunes real quick when a war potentially rears its head, like when the Russia/Ukraine thing kicked off and hilarious tweets of women saying they'd be in the kitchen began trending all over the place. It's so easy to claim you want to go to war when you're kept safe from one. But I've seen what that kind of violence looks like. I come from a long line of military men, back to my great grandfather and including both my uncles too. I've been a martial artist my entire life. But if I were given the choice between frontline combatant or a medic back at home, I'd choose the latter any day. It is a much more privileged job.
While the real life reality of war is true, I don’t think too much of it is attributed to the Avatar universe on account of bending. The Southern Water Tribe was a newer developing part of the water nation which explains why they weren’t prepared for an unexpected war. They had made substantial progress in the past towards building their village into a kingdom (flashbacks show the village being better developed then it was in the present), but because of the war, they were constantly being raided. I don’t believe it was because of anything regarding their sex roles being the cause of their downfall. It was just being a less established settlement making them a prime target for the Fire Nation. The Fire Nation targeted them to minimize the amount of fronts they would face during the war. Allowing them to develop any further would be extremely problematic and as the Earth Nation was fighting defensively and the Northern Water Tribe having no connection to the Southern Tribe, this would be the opportune moment to cripple the water nation. Also, remember that the next avatar, assuming they were alive was meant to be born a water bender which is why they captured more often than killed the Southern Water benders. Once the Fire Nation captured, imprisoned or killed all of the water benders from the Southern Water Tribe, they let them be because they had neutralized their main fighting force. If the Northern Water Tribe had broken its tradition of combat roles, they would’ve succeeded in having better defenses against the fire nation. Sex does not determine bending potential or superiority, but it does indeed determine CQB effectiveness (for non-benders). What I’m trying to say is that had the Southern Water Tribe been conveniently under the same circumstances (defense wise) as their northern counterpart, they wouldn’t have folded during Aangs absence and would have been a genuine threat to the Fire Nation. Considering their non-bending men were still fighting the Fire Nation, one can only imagine how deadly the alternative could have been with bands of water benders and non-benders engaging the Fire Nation from the South.
@@chuckingreaper8654 Why do you suppose the Northern Water Tribe would've fared better against the Fire Nation if they let the women fight? Did you not read the first paragraph? This war lasted 100 years already. That's four generations. They'd have been crushed by the time Aang and co arrived if they had let the women fight. Not because the women were inferior benders when trained, but because they were more important to the longevity of its people. Again, taking the island example. This is something just about every society understood. Even those that trained their women in combat, such as the Vikings, did not bring them on raids or war. They made them capable enough to defend the homestead because that was usually enough of a deterrent to anyone seeking to raid the place once the main fighting force of men left. It's still hard to breach a fortress helmed by women who know what they're doing. Walls and stakes are force amplifiers. That's actually the one thing I'd change about the structure of the Northern Water Tribe. I would teach the women how to fight, but not for offense. For defense.
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 กรกฎาคม 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/B8gcGM6I6e4/mqdefault.jpg)
For me, the removal of Sokka unlearning his sexism has less impact on his character, and more impact on SUKI’S character. Suki in the cartoon is utterly uninterested in even being so much as a friend to Sokka until he changes his attitude towards women and admits that she is a better combatant than him and makes himself willing to learn from her, at which point she allows herself to grow closer to him and finds his personality endearing. In the live action, however, with this aspect of their relationship dynamic being removed, Suki (while still being a very capable warrior) becomes a sheltered girl who is drawn to Sokka because he represents the outside world, something she has never experienced. She seems much more naïve to the realities of the war-torn world outside of Kyoshi Island, and follows him around like a lost puppy asking him to tell her stories about his life and then falls in love with him because he “brought the world to her”. By removing his sexism, they somehow made their show even MORE sexist by reducing Suki down to a shell of her cartoon self.
Agreed it more impacts Suki. But she’s a secondary character and when they have so little time to fit the original story in, is it worth it to develop a non-main character to such a degree? Up to each one’s opinion but I do not begrudge them for making the choice to prioritize other things.
@@gregatkins2156 Well, the live action show has almost as much time* as what the animated version did. And they kept wasting theirs. Also, giving character growth to a secondary character, reflected on the growth of a main one, is a really wonderful move. Even more when that character is supposed to play such an important role later on.
@@gregatkins2156 For one, Suki becomes a more important character later (and the amount of time they spent on Sokka/Suki in the episode suggests the writers are setting that up). But even leaving that side there are two major problems with your argument.
First, they actually spent a whole (longer) episode on the Kyoshi Island story in the live action so clearly they did not have a problem with devoting time/attention to that portion of the story. The writers/showrunners specifically chose to use that time to give us a more generic meet cute story for Suki/Sokka where she falls for him simply because he exists (the writers repeatedly have character do this - Sokka rarely actually does anything to deserve the praise he gets in the live action).
Second, Suki's development doesn't take up additional time for itself, she gets characterized along with Sokka. In the animated show you see her pride (both when she rejects Sokka's sexist attitude but also when she agrees to train him, explains her uniform and even is a sore loser when he beats her once). This doesn't take additional time from the story since it's a part of the story. You get both Sokka's initial growth and arc of maturing and becoming the man and leader he needs to be AND you get to understand both Suki and why she likes Sokka which in turn sets up her return in season 2.
In short there's absolutely nothing lost by using the time they spent on a WORSE version of the story to actually give us better versions of BOTH characters. And I would note that the change to Sokka also weakens Katara's character and their relationship so it's a double whammy. Instead we got less developed/interesting characters and relationships and spent just as much (or more!) time to get it.
Oh absolutely!!
@@gregatkins2156 Any lack of time they have is their own doing, is it not?
They removed sokka's short sexism arc, and replaced it with the writers admitting their own sexism towards katara by removing any character trait of her's that the worst of the fandom back in the day hated. Modern script writing is in the gutter
"A vocal minority of people openly percieved Katara's defiant and domineering nature as bitchiness."
So they removed fictional sexism as "problematic" while catering to actual sexism. How ironic.
Actually if you watch to the end of the season they didn't remove sexism entirely. Pakku and the Northern Water Tribe still had sexism in this show, it's just Sokka's sexism was removed.
The problem isn't that they removed Sokka's sexism... Its that they felt the need to remove it even though the original was ALREADY heavily anti-sexism. Every time anyone does or says anything sexist, its immediately challenged and proven wrong by one of the female characters.
My favorite example of this was when Sokka said "don't answer to 'Twinkle Toes,' it's not manly" and Katara responds "you're the one who's bag matches his belt."
The other issue with Sokka' Sexism being removed is that it destroys the relationship arc between him and Suki.
Before, Suki was a competent, hardworking warrior girl doing her own thing.. Sokka insulted her. She showed him up. Sokka realized he'd insulted someone with the kinds of skills he otherwise deeply respects, just because she's a girl. Sokka humbles himself and apologizes for his mistake. It's that quality of humility, and sincerity as he wears women's clothing to prove his dedication to Suki and the other women, that makes him attractive to Suki. And then she learns to genuinely appreciate the skills he has cultivated, as well as how quick of a student he is.
In the live action she's a Disney princess who wants more than this provincial life. She gloms onto Sokka because he's new and different. And she shows him up, making him feel like an unskilled rube for no reason other than she can.
She trains him and I don't know if you've ever studied marital arts, but she doesn't do it right. It's clearly just an excuse to flirt with him and touch him inappropriately.
And Suki is reduced from a strong, independent woman to a Sokka fan girl.
Getting rid of Sokka's Sexism destroyed Suki.
It hurts his relationships more I would say. His relationship with both Katara (mostly early on) and Suki are negatively influenced by his lack of sexism at the start of the show. His relationships with Aang and Toph aren’t hurt as badly, if at all. Even if Katara wasn’t decimated by the show, their early relationship wouldn’t have been as complex.
It s not the issue of sexism.
It the issue of characters with no flaws, no asperities, no personnalities.
They ve been completely "sanitized".
The sexism could have easily been replaced with pride.
Sokka is the strongest warrior in his village and can t conceive that other warriors of an other nation are stronger than him.
Gets humiliated. Humbled. Acknowledge he was wrong, asks to be taught. Boom mini character arc saved. Suki is ok to fall for him because he still shows that he is a smart man who can overcome his beliefs
The netflix wanted perfect characters, but only wrote bland one. Insipide.
Aang isn t the coward who ran away from responsabilities and now has to deal with guilt.
Katara isn t the feisty motherly figure of the group, but a meek girl who gets powerful because plot armor.
Boring.
You can tell the whole fire nation family drama got botched too.
Toph is next to go through the netflix nepotism blender...
It s just sad.
They were all definetly watered down to be neutral toward. It takes the heart out of the series
Sokka didn't have to be necessary a sexist. However he needed to have any similar flaw he could grow up from. They could have changed the flaw instead of just removing it completely.
Sokka’s initial character is one of many individually small flaws which build up into a great mountain. His arc is climbing the mountain, and his first baby step is coming to reconcile with his misconceptions of women. Take away the first step, and suddenly the climb makes less sense.
Very ironic that the showrunners said they were trying to be less sexist by toning down Sokka, but ended up being sexist anyway over how Suki ends up falling for him. In the OG show, she grew to respect him when he wizened up. In the Netflix show, she's *instantly* horny for him. There's no set-up and payoff for any of the characters in the latter show; like you've said, it ends up becoming very bland. Everyone's flaws and personalities become extremely diluted; no wonder fans joke we're watching a play from the Ember Island Prayers.
I think it’s hilarious that these idiots’ attempt to make the show “less sexist” and “iffy” they made the show more sexist, the women less complex and nuanced and more tied into the men of the series affecting them, and somehow made the men the only characters of the show that matter as opposed to the original series where they both mattered.
The original series was a firm stand against sexism and treating women as inferior. The remake however has Katara as a side character in Aang’s story, Sokka showing Suki the world as opposed to her teaching him something, Yue having none of the complexity and courage she had despite not being a bender, and Azula showing none of the sheer prowess and terror that she is supposed to have. And Sokka instead of having the complex and multilayered arc he has in the original show, he learns nothing, he says nothing, he feels like nothing.
The live action remake failed all of the female characters. Every single one of them and I’m not even exaggerating. I could go through every single one that was shown and talk about how the Albert Kim and his team singlehandedly ruined or missed the point of each female character. All of them were ruined by this remake.
This is everything i felt about NATLA and more ❤
"Wait, you didn't mention Toph. Oh yeah, she's from season 2"
_...Oh no please don't ruin Toph too_
@@squiddler7731 Can't wait for Toph to be turned into a lesser version of herself and knowing Albert and his team's terrible writing, she's going to probably bitch and moan about her blindness and think of it as a weakness when the original show made it very clear that her disability is her superpower.
@@squiddler7731watch them unblind her
@@GloomdrakeTheir going to remove her conflict with Katara. Toph and Katara budding friendship was fun in the original but it started off as Toph pushing her buttons.
The problem is that the creatives behind NATLA pulled a piece of the jenga tower away without understanding how it affects the whole tower. Everything in ATLA is very deliberate and people who say "oh it's not a big deal, it's just one small thing, it's only relevant for 4 episodes anyways" are missing the bigger picture here in the exact same way.
By removing it, they've caused a ripple effect that significantly impacts the larger narrative. This change affected:
- The character introduction of Sokka
- The world building and implication about the culture of the Southern Water Tribe
- Katara's Introduction
- Katara's latent potential ability as a water bender
- Suki's Introduction
- Sokka's greater character arc and journey of personal growth.
All of these things are crucial to the story being told, they are not the things that SHOULD be changed in an adaptation. A change can seem small, but have a domino effect on the whole story, and NATLA does this constantly.
./endrant
Same with the fire nation changes in natla.
By changing iroh s timeline, his relationship with zuko, ozai and azula s threat power etc...
A lot of build up is taken out or lade impossible. Making later pay off not happening.
Why would zuko betray iroh at the znd of book2 now? Why would iroh be part of the white lotus? Why would we feel emotionnal in the tales of ba sing se?
These were rookie mistakes. But just check who the head writer for the netflix is (albert kim). He s a sports journalist... This whole adaptation is just a sad joke.
Plus the introduction of it early helps us to understand the source of sexism in the northern water tribe
I absolutely love the jenga anology here. I'll be remembering it.
@@lyswenn glad you could find some wisdom in my yapping! 😂
and even better, glad to see there are so many smart fans out there that get why this adaptation just ain't it. Be easy, everyone ☺
Removing Sokka’s sexism has a snowball effect. It removes Suki’s characterization and the culture of the Northern Water Tribe. It waters down Katara’s passion for waterbending and her fiery attitude.
I despise what they did to Suki so much. Simping for Sokka and they made her dislike the way they lived in Kyoshi island simply because she met Sokka and that was less than a day wth
I agree. It was mostly the wording for me. It presented Sokka’s problematic behaviour as the show itself being casually sexist and a “product of its time.” If this remake didn’t understand that a depiction of something isn’t an endorsement, especially a depiction of sexism that was so obviously anti-sexism, how can I trust it with flawed characters who went through amazing arcs as they grew and improved as people?
It feels like the show was really afraid of giving the characters flaws. Completely forgetting that the characters are actually kids who have a lot of growing up to do, and who also have unhealed trauma because they were raised in an ongoing war
I still don't get why people complained about character flaws in the first place. The flaws are what make the characters.
This was a perfect analysis, and I love how you touched on both sides of the argument!
In a way they've ended up making Sokka more sexist. Cartoon Sokka may have relied too heavily on Katara to cook and do his laundry, but live-action Sokka talks down to her and treats her like a silly little girl who needs to grow up and get wise. Which brings us to the crux of the problem. In the Netflix version, that’s pretty much what Katara is. They've stripped away her nurturing, motherly qualities, so central to her character in the cartoon, and left instead this wide-eyed, nieve child who's nothing like the original character.
In the cartoon, although Sokka is the elder sibling, as often as not Katara acts as the more mature of the two, she kind of carries group, looking out for everyone else's needs, sometimes before her own. It's this mix of being caring and nurturing but also a formidable warrior that makes her one of my favourite fictional characters and one I uphold as a positive female role model.
Then, as you rightly pointed out, there's the issue that stripping Sokka of his flaws strips him of his character growth. In the cartoon, when we first meet Sokka he comes across as kind of jerk but it's all set up and paid off beautifully in a way that ends up making him all the more likable. The moment where Katara is preparing to go off alone to look for Aang, and Sokka fetches the boat to show that he's coming too is so powerful because it's the first time we see his caring, supportive side. Also, not always having to be the mature one of the group allows him to have some funny moments like getting high on cactus juice. He doesn't have to be reduced to a mere comic relief character to provide some great moments of comic relief.
I just hope that seasons 2 and 3 are given more than 8 episodes each to work with.
Yeah, don't hold ur breath
Don’t waste your time and don’t support them
We live in binge land. Even good shows get saddled with 8 episodes per season.
Am I the only one who thinks a live action avatar is completely unnecessary
Would probably have been better to tell a new story in the atla universe
Things that makes sense because of sokka's sexism:
1. katara being angry enough to break aang out the iceberg, i.e the catalyst for the entire show
2. Suki proving something to sokka, the catalyst for their entire relationship
3. Sokka feeling like he is the leader of an entire tribe at a young age, what his 61 episode arc centers. Without sexism, it doesnt make sense for him to believe himself a more qualified leader and warrior than the several other adult women in his tribe
4. Katara being fed up with her sexist culture, Katara is FED UP by the time she reaches Pakku and this anger drives her to prove herself and become an extremely capable waterbender, without Sokka's sexism, she literally only encounters it for the first time in the north, not much of a catalyst
5. Katara feeling like Sokka, her older brother, was as close to his mom and Sokka putting Katara's face in that role because-- SEXISM -- katara was forced to assume that role. Which sokka bought into...because sokka is sexist.
None of these major arcs or storylines make any sense without sokka being sexist. And the scenes that ignore sokka being sexist playso stupidly like Kyoshi being mad that sokka called her a "warrior" instead of a kyoshi, DUMB. Katara breaking the ice by pointing her hands at a boat calmly...? DUMB
It matters in the sense that the way he meets Suki would change without it and the connection between his tribe and the north would be slightly less significant, and devalued in the scheme of world building. Idk how much of an issue this might cause if it was eliminated, I’d like to think that if the story telling and writing is good, it wouldn’t matter
Excellent synthesis. Big fan over here.
You said it perfectly. No notes, 10/10
everybody is boring and has no real character or flaws, Katara is the worst example of this. I was relatively okay with Aang and Zuko's characterizations though, maybe because they had more to do
Anyone who says Sokka doesn’t have a character arc and isn’t only A comedic relief didn’t pay attention to the show. Also I’d like to mention his sexism definitely last longer in the show than 4 episodes. Yes it’s greatly improved on after he meets the Kyoshi Warriors however it’s still there by the time the Firenation attacked Ba Sing Se with the Drill, “JUST BEND THE SLURRY WOMAN!!!” -Sokka.
At the start of the show, He’s got the traditional mindset of Man fight and protect, Woman Nurture and take care of home stuff
Near the middle he’s come to learn women can be just as capable as a man in combat and even can be learned from to improve himself, But he still has a somewhat controlling attitude towards them and doesn’t 100% trust that they’ll deliver
By the end, He’s a great leader who knows some of his greatest assets are his Female Comrades, Putting his full trust in Suki to do her own thing during the Airship raid in the last Battle. It’s a Full arc that I can’t reasonably do justice on without sitting down and watching it with people to explain it but it’s a great character arc that I feel gets way too overlooked, And it is definitely something that was needed in the live action show. Otherwise a lot of his character arc just doesn’t happen.
This is such a great video, probably the best discussion I've seen on this topic!
I honestly don’t care about the changes, I just want them to get the characters right. If they take away key aspects of almost every major then what’s the point?
I also want point almost everyone likes the fire nation characters because their key traits are not removed from the show. Why can’t that treatment be given to main three characters? Would really kill them to make Katara sassy and passionate? Would really kill them let Aang goof off instead of just telling us that he likes to goof off?
Would it kill them to actually watch season 1 of the animated series before they made snap judgements and piss everyone off!?
Yeah no, the fire nation characters are also polarizing but they have more personality than the core cast which isnt saying much
I m as disappointed in the fire nation.
Iroh isn t that laid back dude of the original.
Zuko isn t angry.
Ozai is a weak old man who get s his butt kicked by a 13 years old...
Azula, ugh, got demoted from absolute threat to angsty teen.
They are all watered down versions. Shallower and with messed up timelines so that later pay off won t happen.
It s a mess.
omg i finally watched your analysis of hair in atla after seeing it for a while, and now i'm watching this, and then i went to your profile and saw a deep dive on the district 4 tributes??? i am eating good tonight. thank you
Really loving your avatar videos! Hope to see more (original series ofc)
I seriously don’t understand how the Netflix model of renewal works. Like is it just if the shows creates buzz, even if it’s the wrong kind of buzz. If it is than that’s a really lousy way to do it since that doesn’t tell us anything about the quality of the show, or about how many people that actually enjoy it
I stand by the statement, this should have never been made into live action, so much of it can't be done in a different medium then animation
Why can't show runners ever get this simple rule right?
It's very simple: don't screw with the source material; your vision does not matter when you're stealing and profiting off other people's work and calling it IP.
Because show runners run into the same issue when adapting a large body of source material into a much smaller adaptation body of work, and that’s time. Could they have taken some moments to quickly highlight original attributes of all of the characters when they only have 8 episodes to squish several more original episodes worth of material in? Sure. And they tried to. But at the end of the day they have to pick and choose what is most important to the story they want to tell, and they can’t possibly fit every detail into a new adaptation. Sokka’s sexism is not that important in the grand scheme of things, as the video creator shows..
@@gregatkins2156 They could've told the story as it was written and your entire argument falls apart from there.
If we are adapting a show into another medium, we should be making changes of some sort. The original IP isn’t an untouchable holy text you must always adhere to. Adding detail, tweaking sequence of events or shifting tone between the adaptions isn’t
the problem. Without those, why are we even bothering with this adaptation at all?
The issue is a lot of these changes (including Sokka’s sexism) seem to undermine the core messages, themes or overarching narratives in some way. The change isn’t worth the trade they made, but the problem isn’t the fact that they made a change.
@@NathanMeyers-nt3pf Right, but that's nuance, so it may as well be.
You aren't trying to change my mind here, you're trying to change the mind of a multimillionaire exec who doesn't even use the internet or watch the media his corporation pumps out.
@@Atmatan_Kabbaheryeah that’s true. The disconnect is painful.
They made Sokka boring
Katara passive
Aang too serious
Suki only existing for a man
Iroh not containing nearly enough positive masculinity as OG Iroh does
Zuko not being allowed to be seen as a villain first
Azula not being intimidating
Ozai not being cold and distant enough as OG Ozai
Pakku not being a potential relative
Bumi being a boomer
Gran Gran tryna be a main character
Gyatso not being OP enough
Wan Shi Tong is just some random bird now
Mei and Tylee are just.. there
Yue became a furry who's a bit too happy about her tragic past
Kyoshi into a screeching owl
And Appa and Momo being reduced to furniture!
yeah that's pretty much the live action in a nutshell tbh
It's also the one big controversial thing that they leaked so what else were they gonna jump on? 🤦♂To say: "Oh, well why do they have a problem with specifically that?" is just divisive.
Anyway I'm gonna add to the protectiveness of Sokka of Katara, cause it hammers your point home nicely. There is one scene where you clearly see it. When Katara gets burned Sokka slams Aang to the ground like "What have you done to her?" You're almost taken aback with the fierceness of his reaction. Avatar or not. No one hurts his sister and lives. There's _good_ and bad mixed in his overall world view and it's complex and beautiful to unpack.
Nice work, I really enjoyed this.
#notmysokka ✊️😔
#notmysokka BUT ILL ALWAYS BE YOUR DEMONSQUIRE
#NOTMYSOKKA 😔
This, but also Sokka losing his sexism arc causes Katara, Suki and Yue to have different interactions with him and ultimately affect who they are as characters (Yue to a lesser extent but still). Katara’s fiery personality was perfectly pit up against Sokka embodying systems that are wrong within their culture. Her learning to deal with sexism on a peer-level, and moving on to deal with an adult later on shows her resolve and strength to achieve what she wants. Suki went from someone who challenges Sokka’s world view and him challenging hers to Suki thirsting after an outsider and thanking him for existing within her space. Everything Sokka learns from Suki is supposed to give him the point of view to help her go through with doing things her way and in turn helps him with processing grief. Sokka learning to not discredit those who are deemed weak by society is part of what helps him learn to be a great leader. Getting to know woman who are warriors and getting to know disabled characters help shape his inventive and compassionate spirit. This is why it bothers me.
Not only that, but now is a great time to have arcs that show men unlearning those toxic traits! So many young men are being taught harmful things around woman, the disabled and other minorities and Sokka could have been what helped some kid realize they’re wrong.
I am extremely mad that they took out Sokka's sexism, but not for the reason that some would think. To me, Sokka's sexism isn't as important to his character arc as some would say it is. Don't get me wrong, it is still very important to the story as a whole, but not for his arc. Instead, his sexism is reason why they even found Aang in the first place, if that is not a good reason why I hate Netflix's decision, idk what is.
i think sokka's sexism is something that makes or breaks his character. it's his first major character arc. it bleeds into his character as one of the most positive representations of traditional masculinity while contrasting the traditional femininity of his sister, both of them very surprisingly taking these archaic symbols of gender norms and distilling them into what people should take away from them.
it's absolutely a core part of his character. it's deeply rooted in his culture and the way he was raised, and genuinely is a part of his personality. at the start, obviously it shows itself in a less positive way, but it's a completely natural starting point for him considering all these points, and leaves him open for great, (and i mean in both ways) GREAT change. he was raised in a traditional village, and while not outwardly sexist like the north, the south definitely abided by gender norms to a tea, especially as the raids whittled down the female fighters, only the housewives were left, giving reason to his shallow perspectives on the whole ordeal. his father entrusts the women of the village and his sister to him, saying he has to protect them. he sees them work away, doing menial labour, and as a young boy, he is taken care of. his childhood obviously instills sexism in him, but the root cause is a genuine, caring and protective viewpoint. it coming from a genuine place is what lets sokka let go of his pride so quickly, (alongside his incredible humility and desire to grow and learn of course) and want to train with the kyoshi warriors. his whole world is turned upside down in a day, and he learns to see how girls can indeed be warriors and take on roles he sees as only for men. back to the water tribes, yue reinforces this idea as sokka is once again told to protect her, and in his eyes, he fails to. after having his sexism be stripped from his viewpoint on the idea of protecting others he holds dear, his next meeting with suki ends up being literally one of the sweetest moments in the entire franchise as suki mistakes his genuine care for his old stupid macho schtick, but sokka time and time again showcases that it is indeed a genuine core of his character, and this time, it's not misguided. he IS different than paku, who showcases systematic sexism and actual misogyny. i think this all culminates in the finale, where he and toph are tumbling all around. while this is also an incredible finale of tophs character arc of relying on others, sokka, the former sexist dumbass teen, shielding toph with his body, not because he views her as feeble, incapable or weak because of her attributes or even in need of his help, but because he genuinely cares, and as a man AND her friend, he views it as his duty to protect her. we've seen time and time again how strong toph is in comparison to sokka, and how she's one of the strongest fighters of her era, and she probably hasn't even neared her peak yet. yet sokka, the non-bending scrawny teenage boy pretty much is ready to die for her under metal rubble, even if she probably has a better chance of protecting herself without his help considering her bending anyways. it doesn't even come to his mind that she's a girl or let alone blind, (maybe even that she's his dear friend at that very second) he does it instantly.
all in all, i think sokkas sexism is akin to like a shitty muddy gold medal, it's something like grime covering the gold interior which is scrubbed off as the plot moves along, unlike paku's sexism, which is pretty much a weed or a stray hair that needs to be plucked and disposed of. i think it's also incredibly neat that the two village bumpkins, after being pushed to their limits are like carbon being squeezed into actual diamonds. they take everything their traditional upbringing has taught them, remove the wrongs and in the end they end up as probably one of the best representations of traditional gender roles and what they could be, which in a cast of such diverse character arcs, is like the backbone that holds up characters that subvert these tropes like toph or aang.
tl;dr I THINK sokka's sexism is a shallow outward manifestation of what becomes one of his best traits later on, just like katara's bossy overbearing attitude, which was also removed in this dogshit show.
pretty sure the point of the backlash was that ppl didnt like how the writers seemed to have not understood the point of the sexism
and those ppl were right when you see how the natla writers completely butchered nearly all the female characters and ADDED unintentionally sexist scenes
While you are awake, my heart comes undone, slowly unravels.
In a ball of yarn, the devil collects it with a grin, our love in a ball of yarn.
He'll never return it, he'll never come back, we'll have to make new love.
how i saw sokka and katara's relationship was sokka being the *younger* sibling, because katara is seen frequently reminiscing about her mother, includinf details, while sokka barely remmbers her, instead saying that when he pictures his mother, all he sees is katara. he pritects her in a way that a little brother would protect his big sister, or a son protect his mother. sokka being non-sexist would ruin katara's attitude (being a caretaker to a bratty, problematic boy is stressful, i would know), and suki's entire arc of trusting and eventually loving him. it makes his initial deafeat by zuko more silly, because he isnt fueled by his views of what a man "should be", it doesnt impact Aang all that much, and hes the only character that is doesnt impact. it leaves no room for his father to connect with him and teach him why he has these beliefs in the forst place, and why theyre wrong. all-in-all, you cant get rid of this aspect of his arc without getting rid of depth and reactions from many other characters. thats not even mentioning his mentor, who teaches him maturity and humility. hes a 15 year old boy, and 15 year old boys are immature and often sexist. especially with my headcannon of him being younger than katara, 13 or 14.
The only live action avatar video ive been willing to watch
And i was still disappointed
Man.. you're giving these writers a lot of credit here. I appreciate the deep analysis though ❤
Personally, I don’t find the issue is the lack of sexism but the lack of a true set up for a narrative arc for Sokka’s character and not replacing it with something that conveys similar concepts. I think the sexism was a good thing for his character to grow from but removing that aspect doesn’t means you need to remove the standard concepts presented because of it builds into.
For example, to me Sokka putting on the Kyoshi warrior’s outfit and having Suki explain it to him directly tells us the narrative journey Sokka will go on and traits he strengthens. Horror, heroism, bravery, and loyalty. Sokka’s journey is told to us very early on in the show, and in a very clean way without having to constantly tell us when it is happening. From this scene on we really get Sokka being a genuine leader- and from his growth from being more than just a physically fighter he grows into using his genuine intelligence. Sokka is comic relief but due is also a genius in science, literature, life skills like mapping, and growing to navigate personal relationships. All which come from him learn to let go of not just sexism but what is concepts of “masculinity” and “femininity” to just be himself.
In the show it focuses so much in Sokka almost being a realized character from the start while putting blame on other forces. Suki doesn’t help Sokka because he begs and shows he genuinely wanted to learn to be better, it becomes some weird sexually charged scene denying what is honorable fighting. It personally feels weird choosing to make Suki’s livelihood and deeply respected fighting style their charged up romantic plot to fill in the fact Sokka’s goal was to grow as a person- not just a warrior. It then never gives him a reason to explore himself more and shifts blame onto others, like his inventing skills. The show would rather butcher every other minor character than let Sokka grow and be good at something that he held back from needing to explore on his own. They don’t end choosing to change his narrative arc, they choose to skip the arcs and hope it they can fit enough in those gaps will be made up through just telling us.
I find levels of complexities that Sokka’s sexism brought to match the real world and often why some young boys turn into Sokka’s original path. Removing it isn’t a big deal, but it personally limits the scope of a backstory for the characters that doesn’t need to be told to the audience word for word but inferred, making the audience thing and have to piece points. It’s treated them as being a smart enough to come to understand Sokka without having to think he was ever in the rightz That being said is if needed, no, but the show never tried to fill in Sokka’s own personal gaps properly choice to either take Katara’s or wipe them out with heart eyes and sexual tension. Also we know past water benders we’re allowed to fight regardless of being a man or women, but sadly by Sokka’s youth (and Katara’s) all had been taken so he really has no connection to seeing that sort of actions. I bet most elders like gran gran wouldn’t like taking about it either given the raids being a point of tragedy.
Hey Lucky, I like your videos, but can you please include the sources of the TH-cam videos you used in the background?
You really hit the nail on the head. It's not the first time live-action creators listen to the WORST and laziest criticisms of the media they're adapting, which is why I can't stand this genre of content in general.
Yeah the removal of character flaws is huge how will they handle scenes like Katara threatening to kill Zuko?
Girl I'm dying to see District 11 and 12 😢
Glad for your input. The collective obsession over Sokka’s “lost” misogyny has been absurd. He’s still sexist, it’s just toned down and more subtle - which works better in live action. For all the valid writing criticisms of this show, the Sokka-related ones are the most odd to me.
I feel like the removal of Sokka's sexism inadvertently removed a lot of Katara's growth.
Katara was raised in a sexist society in the same way that Sokka was and that had a profound effect on her and her journey with Aang. She was expected to grow up faster than Sokka because she needed to fill in for her mom due to her mom's passing. Thats why shes overbearing and a bit domineering. Most of her negative traits stem from the fact that she needed to grow up before she could emotionally mature.
As the series goes on, she starts to grow out of the need to parent aang/toph/sokka. Thats like what 90% of toph/katara's rocky parts of their friendship.
Removing the southern water tribes sexism inadvertently lead them to make Katara a sexist caricature.
To summarise the comments: "You've become the very thing you've sought to destroy!"
For in light of removing Sokka's sexism, they somehow turned it more sexist.
i’m not saying they didn’t have a better vision or that they are incompetent because i think it’s likely that studio execs gave them an unmovable deadline. i just wish even ONE of the people who had to sign off on this show cared at all about the content and world because frankly, nobody who likes Avatar should have given this the green light in its current state unless motivated by cash
To add, by the start of the show, all of the waterbenders of the southern water tribe had been systematically taken out except for Katara. It would not be surprising if some of Sokka's attitude in the beginning comes from fear of his sister meeting the same fate as the other waterbenders
I had to agree with you
I love your videos but can you please make your audio louder ;w;
PLEASE DO DISTRICT DEEP DIVE 11
PLEASE
Why does live action Sokka remind me of Robbie Rotten?
This is emblematic of my issues with modern media. The idea idea that any depictions of bigotry is somehow an endorsement regardless of context. Its so bad that people complain when villains are bigots.
Never underestimate zoomers ability to ruin something
All in all, it’s bad writing! No wonder the original creators left the project, I would have too.
Having sanitising water down protagonists in a TV show that literally is directly grappling with and exploring the realities of being a child of war is kind of ridiculous. Part of it makes avatar so amazing, that part of work makes anything decent writing, is having complex characters, and having characters that go on narrative arcs where they evolve over time.
How can your characters grow and change, if they have a little flaws? that would automatically make any storyline not worth watching? unless of course it’s like a slice of life or something
Did the show really get renewed? I was hoping that they would not renewed this peice of crap.
I have not liked a single persons opinion on this topic yet so maybe you'll be the first
You are this was a very very well done video and and you brought up very interesting points
#notmysokka !!
Sokka never thought women or their role was "inferior". And he definitely does not fall under the same category as other characters. You're making things up with assumptions. There was absolutely no reason or logic to Sokka being sexist. He never saw his father treat his mother with sexism as you claimed. Sokka was born, grew up and raised... all he knew was the Southern Water Tribe. A place where female Waterbenders have fought against Firebenders during invasions before. The Fire Nation ship trapped in the ice is evident of that. This was shown during Hamma's flashback. Also Gran Gran left the Northern Water Tribe to come to the Southern Water Tribe.... Sokka was made sexist to create "room for growth" as something that would be seen so from a time/audience that view and continue to view traditional gender roles as something not welcomed anymore. And breaking out from them is empowering, revolutionary and trendy. And very well accepted and commended especially by females. Which brings me to the connection between Sokka and Katara. His sexism served as something Katara can go off to display her strong and rebellious personality, to traditional gender roles. The goal of the writers was accomplished, very well accepted and applauded. Even if it didn't make as much sense as commonly having Inuits with blue eyes. Which is something that they can get away with in animation but difficult to do in live-action. Especially when there's a mob of angry fans that are ok accepting it in animated format. But go crazy in live-action because now it's a misrepresentation since it's about Whitewashing.
i recently got into the live action, i was hesitant at first cause airbender was my shit wen the cartoon came out. first episode was pretty much the same way i remember the first episode of the cartoon version...then it came less n less the same way. i pissed that the earthbender chick in the cartoon isnt blind in the live action version and i dont recall her being a "warrior" in the cartoon. that was a huge no go. i may finish the first season but idk yet
I think you're mixing Toph up with someone else? I haven't watched the live action show but Toph doesn't show up until season 2, so she wouldn't be in this season. A warrior who can see sounds more like Suki?
@@perrisavallon5170 idk who ur talkin about...so how am i mixing up anyone??
@@playground2583you’re mixing Toph with Suki
@@playground2583 So, Toph is the blind earthbender girl from the cartoon that you're talking about, and she's not in the live action show yet.
@@perrisavallon5170 yeh i remembered after i sent it. i was at work so couldnt correct it
Sokka’s character didn’t require sexism, but they didn’t replace it with anything. So he doesn’t feel like his character is developing
In defense of Pakku and ''sexism'' such as his: That's how all wars were waged. Why? Two reasons. First and foremost, it's a simple reality that men are better warriors due to physical and mental disparities. Guns and in ATLA's world bending are great equalizers, but not entirely. Modern military tests prove that a hundred times over. But the second and arguably even more important reason: Children. Put one woman on an island with a hundred men, the island can have a population of 102-103 the next year at best. Put one man on an island with a hundred women, you can have an island with a population of 201-301 the next year, possibly more.
If you send your women to fight while the opposing side does not, you will lose a prolonged conflict 10/10 times. One generation of losses is all it'd need for them to wipe you out through sheer numbers. I think it's unfair to claim the structure seen in the Northern Water Tribe is wrong and outdated. It's easy to write it off as senseless sexism from a 2024 privileged lens. The sole reason we can think that way is because we're living comfortably in the suburbs. It isn't just silliness. It's necessary. I didn't even get the feeling that Pakku was sexist himself. Sexism is defined as ''prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.'' (note also how it specifies against women, which is pretty damn wrong). The only one you could argue he falls under is the last one, and again, that's a rule of wartime. There's definitely no prejudice from his end. He straight up complimented Katara on her abilities. If she hadn't insulted and challenged him, I daresay he likely would've taught her even before finding out she was the granddaughter of his betrothed. But one exception does not make the rule. That is why I always liked that in the original, Katara does not change the entire structure of the Northern Water Tribe the way she does in that atrocity of a live action series. She's simply the exception because her being so does not harm the Tribe. She's not there to stay anyway. She's off with the Avatar. So her becoming a warrior doesn't damage the ability of the water tribe to bolster their ranks after suffering casualties in war. If she dies in battle, the water tribe doesn't suffer. Only Team Avatar will, and they'll be elsewhere.
There's a lot more nuance to this than people want to admit. For example, Katara is the last waterbender of the Southern Tribe, and only because they hid her bending, something her mother died for. That's an interesting subliminal message the showrunners placed in there. Gran-Gran and a few other female waterbenders ran away from the Northern Tribe because of theirs and Pakku's ''sexism'', and they all went extinct. They weren't able to reproduce faster than they got captured and/or killed. The sole reason Katara and the tribe survived was because they were literally nothing to the Fire Nation anymore. Not even worth a single ship to put the final nail in the coffin. That's a pretty strong message. The Northern Water Tribe has the right of it. The sole reason they lived, was the structure they maintained. They kept their ranks filled, and their soldiers safe. That was the responsibility of the women. Meanwhile the responsibility of the men was to fight and die.
I've always wondered why women glorify the latter as though it's something to aspire to. 99% Of men don't want to die or get brutally maimed in war. The women claiming they do change their tunes real quick when a war potentially rears its head, like when the Russia/Ukraine thing kicked off and hilarious tweets of women saying they'd be in the kitchen began trending all over the place. It's so easy to claim you want to go to war when you're kept safe from one. But I've seen what that kind of violence looks like. I come from a long line of military men, back to my great grandfather and including both my uncles too. I've been a martial artist my entire life. But if I were given the choice between frontline combatant or a medic back at home, I'd choose the latter any day. It is a much more privileged job.
While the real life reality of war is true, I don’t think too much of it is attributed to the Avatar universe on account of bending.
The Southern Water Tribe was a newer developing part of the water nation which explains why they weren’t prepared for an unexpected war. They had made substantial progress in the past towards building their village into a kingdom (flashbacks show the village being better developed then it was in the present), but because of the war, they were constantly being raided. I don’t believe it was because of anything regarding their sex roles being the cause of their downfall. It was just being a less established settlement making them a prime target for the Fire Nation. The Fire Nation targeted them to minimize the amount of fronts they would face during the war. Allowing them to develop any further would be extremely problematic and as the Earth Nation was fighting defensively and the Northern Water Tribe having no connection to the Southern Tribe, this would be the opportune moment to cripple the water nation. Also, remember that the next avatar, assuming they were alive was meant to be born a water bender which is why they captured more often than killed the Southern Water benders.
Once the Fire Nation captured, imprisoned or killed all of the water benders from the Southern Water Tribe, they let them be because they had neutralized their main fighting force.
If the Northern Water Tribe had broken its tradition of combat roles, they would’ve succeeded in having better defenses against the fire nation. Sex does not determine bending potential or superiority, but it does indeed determine CQB effectiveness (for non-benders).
What I’m trying to say is that had the Southern Water Tribe been conveniently under the same circumstances (defense wise) as their northern counterpart, they wouldn’t have folded during Aangs absence and would have been a genuine threat to the Fire Nation. Considering their non-bending men were still fighting the Fire Nation, one can only imagine how deadly the alternative could have been with bands of water benders and non-benders engaging the Fire Nation from the South.
Speaking facts
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@@chuckingreaper8654 Why do you suppose the Northern Water Tribe would've fared better against the Fire Nation if they let the women fight? Did you not read the first paragraph? This war lasted 100 years already. That's four generations. They'd have been crushed by the time Aang and co arrived if they had let the women fight. Not because the women were inferior benders when trained, but because they were more important to the longevity of its people. Again, taking the island example.
This is something just about every society understood. Even those that trained their women in combat, such as the Vikings, did not bring them on raids or war. They made them capable enough to defend the homestead because that was usually enough of a deterrent to anyone seeking to raid the place once the main fighting force of men left. It's still hard to breach a fortress helmed by women who know what they're doing. Walls and stakes are force amplifiers.
That's actually the one thing I'd change about the structure of the Northern Water Tribe. I would teach the women how to fight, but not for offense. For defense.
sexist rage bait