Great summary. I typically even double check my zero when adding electrical tape to the muzzle for protection from obstructions when hunting. I’ve not had it affect the zero, yet.
I wasn’t raised around hunting or shooting, but I was in the drag racing world for a good while. One thing you learn very quickly is that things don’t perform exactly the same on any given day. Now that I do hunt, I record the weather conditions on each trip to the range. If I know I’m going hunting and it’s 40 degrees with a 10 mph wind and I last shot in 85 degrees with no wind, I hit the range to verify my zero. “Good enough” is NOT good enough! When a fellow hunter misses a shot, I ask what their groups looked like. When they say 3” at 100 yards, I tell them to go buy 3 brands of ammo and 2 bullet weights from each brand. Then shoot all of them until they can stack 5 shots inside 1” at 100 yards. They call me ocd. They also all agree I don’t miss. They sit around the fire and get drunk each night hoping something walks by close enough for them to shoot. I don’t drink, I go to bed early, and Lord willing, always hit what I aim at. Hunting is not when you figure out how off your zero is.
Not all of us are like that Mr. Selby, I've got my data on PoI shift out to 600yds with half dozen different bullets. Just saying that to give you some hope in the younger generation. But I love hearing you get on to the ones who don't do their due diligence!
I agree with you Randy 100%! I hunt suppressed down here in Texas and I had to work up a completely different load for my rifle and take it to distance to make sure the accuracy was there! It amazes me that so many people think adding these Devices on the end of your rifle doesn’t make a difference!!
I own multiple suppressors, hunt with suppressors, and compete with suppressors and I disagree with just about everything you just said about suppressors... Now I don't hunt long range no matter where I hunt around the country 350 to 400 yards is my limit on what I consider ethical and most shots I've taken has probably been 200 yards and in so that I whole heartily agree with you on everything you just said about hunting. We owe that animal enough respect that if we're going to shoot it we're not taking that shot with a "I hope it hits where I want it to" attitude. But again out of the dozen or so suppressors I own none of them decrease accuracy it's actually the other way around, I have extremely lightweight suppressors specifically for hunting or low volume shooting, and I have short suppressors as well . Now there's definitely suppressors out there that do fall under what you're saying and adding one to your gun will definitely change your point of impact and that is something everyone should be aware of especially if you're hunting with it. Also if you remove a suppressor to clean your rifle the vast majority have a really good return to zero but again if you're hunting you owe it to the animal to double check that. I don't know if maybe I misunderstood you and that's what you were meaning... There's definitely a bunch of people out there that don't care enough to learn these things and an animal is only a trophy to put on the wall to them or a story to tell but I've hunted all over the country and do my best to catch, kill, or grow my food whenever possible so again I whole heartily agree with what you were saying about hunting...
I don’t think Randy ever said that suppressors make a gun less accurate. What he said is that your point of impact changes when using versus not using one. I happen to agree with everything he said!
I'm not trying to drag the dude in any way just pointing out some of what he's talking about suppressors is inaccurate. He ws lumping in some of the older bad things about suppressors which is for the most part no longer being used or sold with all the good and making general statement as a catch all when only a little of it is actually true. I particularly appreciate what he's talking about when it comes to the newer generation of these long range hunting guys or the weekend warriors that can't be bothered with learning a little bit about what hunting is to most of us or when you change something on your firearm it can and normally does change your point of impact. That's why you should always check your zero no questions asked if anything is changed especially when it comes to your barrel, optic, and ammo. This kind of thing really is taking hunting in the wrong direction but again I get where he's trying to go with this. To lots of people this is all common knowledge but the suppressor thing is not just a fad they have a lot to offer to the hunting community and can be extremely useful and just make the whole experience a lot more enjoyable...
Some truth bombs for Randy: 1. A properly built/smithed rifle will have repeatability between changes from bare muzzle, break, or suppressor. Most don’t switch between the three. If it isn’t repeatable, you need a new gunsmith. Just log shifts, dial it in, and bam! It’s that easy. 2. Suppressors oftentimes INCREASE accuracy, saves your hearing, and reduces ground signature. 3. Suppressors designed for hunting tend to weigh ounces, not pounds. 4. Despite your anecdotal evidence, truth is people aren’t constantly switching this stuff around.
I’m not sorry at all to give my personal report. This report is a video documented as well as paper documented. And I have to start off by saying that I completely disagree with the bulk of your statements. We recently built a precision long range rifle Chambered in 6.5 PRC. It is threaded for a muzzle brake. The muzzle brake is an Area419 Hellfire Match. I also have a thread protector. As well as a thunder beast ultra 9” Gen II. This test took a couple of days to complete. First zero at 100 yards. Shooting at 100, 200, and 300 yards with a muzzle, brake, suppressor and thread cover. There was absolutely no deviation in impact of round.
I’ve been hunting/shooting suppressed for a couple years now and aside from my big and medium bores I will never go back to hunting unsuppressed again. Except for my 1 30-06 I have for exclusively for hunting in Canada because they don’t allow suppressors. I do load development for all of my rifles with the suppressor on and all of my bolt guns shoot 1/2 moa or better. So idk where he’s saying you can’t get accuracy out of rifles that are suppressed. He’s not wrong that they shift POI but if you sight it in for it there’s nothing wrong with hunting with it.
Amen Mr. Selby.. May God grant us time to rethink everything. That hunting, in essence, is stalking as close as possible to our majestic game, and not taking impossible shots at extended ranges for bragging rights
In summary: Anytime you hang a different component on the end of your barrel you are changing the barrel harmonics and effecting your POI. Consistency is one of the hallmarks of accuracy. In the age of information I can't believe we have to have a video to explain this to people.
Real words of common sense. Thank you. I always repeat what my grandfather used to say,” you can fix stupid.” Ethical hunting is the message within the message. Keep your videos coming please.
I really enjoy your straight forward approach to these topics. I understand your concern for people not knowing their equipment before hunting. The thing I would like to bring up is, you are making it sound like everyone with a break or a suppressor is an irresponsible hunter, or at least aren’t accurate. Where I start to question the geralization in your message here is because I don’t know many people who would invest the money into a good rifle and a suppressor and not do their due diligence before going hunting. Maybe they are out there, but I don’t know any of them. Thanks for your wisdom.
I just shot two whitetail in Wyoming last week with a 308. Range was 137 yards on the doe and sixty yards on the buck. 150 grain accubond hand loaded ammo. Don’t need to shoot 3/4 of a mile on game no matter where you are
Agreed for the most part..There are places where they just have mountain ranges as far as the eye can see..It is harder to get close like we can on the East Coast..Even then, your shot shouldn't exceed your skill level. A shot you can make 99% of the time is a green light in my book
Hi Randy, I have a question for you. As far as head space goes. Which do you think is more forgiving, head space off the belt or off the shoulder. I have .458 win, .338 win, 375 HH, and a 7mm mag, all head space off the belt. Never a misfire, ever. I have a .416 Ruger that head spaces off the shoulder, and I do now and again get a misfire. When I reload for .416, I have to make sure that the primer is fully seated in the primer pocket and pushed in well in order not to misfire. I was wonder what you think? thanks!
Always seat primers to the bottom of the primer pocket. Loose cases, that are oversized, can cause a firing problem as there is headspace from case head base to the shoulder. Thanks for watching.
I totally agree 100% with what you said that you will change point of impact by adding or removing a muzzlebrake or suppressor i learned that when I was at gunsmith school at CST
All this re-zeroing, LOL! Guess some folks have easy access to more plentiful, inexpensive ammunition than the rest of us. Another great video that speaks to common sense and ethical hunting!
Thank you for the video yall I've learned so much from all of your videos and always look forward to them.thanks again and please keep them coming and God bless
It's really not a big deal.. The thread protector is for shooting with a suppressor, for when you take the suppressor off. That's all. If you plan on just using a muzzle brake, the muzzle brake just stays on. If you then want to shoot suppressed you do it and just put the brake back on it. The thread protector is only needed if you don't use a muzzle brake and shoot suppressed. The only time that changes is if you use a certain muzzle brake that pairs up with a suppressor, and still it's just 2 zeroes that you need to write down and remember. For most shooters it's not a big deal though. I have a certain zero for shooting suppressed, and a zero for shooting unsuppressed. If you write down your changes from one to the other they should stay basically the same everytime. I have a huge 30 caliber suppessor that changes my zero 1.4 MILRAD at 100 yards.... But same goes for changing elevations and different temperatures. You would need to re-zero if you go from one state to the next for a hunt, or from one country to the next for different combat zones...You should always know your zero when changing conditions period!
@@50StichesSteel you use discord or anything? I used to work for a SOT always looking for new parts kits or stuff to trade or just buddies in the same hobby
It comes down to this if you do not take your firearm to the range shortly before season with the setup and ammo you intend to use and zero it you are doing it wrong. Also you should know at what range you can consistently hit an 8" paper plate with that set up and ammo combo!
I am sure there are idiots out there but if you have a suppressor for a rifle I doubt many are newbies to shooting. I have never come across someone that would just willynilly swap a muzzle break and suppressor without rezeroing the rifle. Of course it changes the point of impact how could it not. And many suppressors are much smaller and lighter weight than you are saying. I have a few that are under 8” long and weight no more than 12 oz. my favorite is 7” and weights 8 oz. and is very quiet. Just a few weeks ago relatives came hunting to my place in Montana that had put their suppressors on to hunt with. We rezeroed each rifle and checked accuracy at distance all the way to 1000 yards they actually shot better with the suppressor on than not. Range target 1015 yards look at drop chart on Verified data, I gave them the wind call to hold in there reticle and when they were ready from a bipod and rear bag hit center on the plate which was 18”x18” all the way out from 300 to 1015 yards on various sized targets first round hits. Only one shot the wind died and it hit .3 to the right still with in the vitals on a coyote sized target at 700 yards. Practice and accuracy make it happen. Magnum rifles have lots of energy on target but also lots of recoil to the shooter that hinder most people in shooting accurately and not wanting to practice.
I always resight my rifle before deer season. I usually shoot through the spring and summer at longer ranges with one load off a bipod and rear bag but i hunt with a different load with my longest shots being taken off of a front shooting rest. So during my "hunting sight-in" I try to duplicate how I will be shooting in the field. You'd be amazed at how shooting from a rest vs shooting from a bipod can change POI ,even with the same load and no scope adjustments during the same shooting session.
With all due respect, I would not. I ran a club range complex for 14 years, with the assistance of other people. The only rifles (in my experience) that can sometimes be shot with little or no variation in bullet impact between bipod shooting and prone-supported shooting tend to be heavy barrelled .22 rifles using good quality subsonic ammo (1,035 to 1,080 fps i.e., NOT the cheap 900fps rubbish that some people use in lieu of a suppressor) and reportedly some sniper rifles or close analogues thereof. I agree that you have to test rifle/ammo combinations and use a notebook to record all relevant information.
I have heard people say this man is stuck in the 70s and he makes up everything he says. Two things wrong with that: experience has been his teacher and he has a high standard of ethics. Those make a great combination to share with others.
Great video Randy! Another thing to bear in mind is when you thread the muzzle end of a button rifled barrel the barrel can stress relieve and the bore can grow. 001 or more in diameter. There is no replacement for ethics and good hunting skills.
@@duckslayer11000 I have measured it myself with pin gouges right where a muzzle is threaded. .001 is the growth . Button rifling will stress relieve when you cut it. You also notice it when you are threading.
@@stevecovert314 so I assume you are using .0001 increment pin gauges? Otherwise the standard .001 increments would be giving you a false impression. The pin size that wouldn't fit before the next one that would could have a .0009 clearance since working with such large jumps in size. Your measurement tool needs to be 10 times as accurate as your measurement claim.
@@duckslayer11000 yes I used. 0001 gouges. You can also tell that the button rifled barrels are stress relieving when you are threading them because they will sometimes make a heavy cut that is more than what you set. All that displaced steel will move. There are several videos about this. Yes I have access to better gauging equipment than most gunsmiths.
Suppressors are handy on a rifle because they save your hearing and everyone else's hearing around you. It's a muffler for your rifle, same as a muffler for your car. If the muffler on your car fell off would you replace it because how obnoxious the sound is? Also, zero your rifle with and without a can.
Hi I have a ar 223 55.6 I'm having trouble w it at 100 yard s it will hit a dime at 200 Or 250 it is hitting 10 Inc to 12 inc to the right I have put 3 new scoops on it and it is still dong the same thang do you thank I need to buy a new barrel for it or W do you thank it might be
I have rifles I’ve never fired without a suppressor on them. Sight them in with the can practice with the can and hunt with the can. I use light weight titanium suppressors they are nice to take the edge off and reduce recoil. It’s all preference really. Don’t get me wrong if I was building the ultimate mountain rifle I would just go with a muzzle brake and keep the weight even lower.
I wouldn’t argue that suppressors have their place, however, I’ve never had one and probably never will…never felt the need for one. A muzzle break is sometimes a necessity for hard recoiling chamberings and helps with flinching when getting pummeled by shooting multiple rounds in a heavy recoiling chambering. Personally I prefer to sight my rifles, check the sighting at different ranges by using hold over, and then leave them as they are set. It is a piss poor person who does not know his rifle and/or cannot stalk in to a closer range for the kill shot. I say person and not hunter because a hunter will know his rifle and always stalk in to get a closer shot. Thanks for the excellent video @therealgunsmith
Sir, I live in a farming area, most people have 25 to 200 acre homesteads. The only deer or hog hunting I do is with a 300 blackout suppressed rifle with subs. I do it simply because I don’t need a 2nd shot between 50 to 100 yards and I’m not wanting to disturb my neighbors. Here in NE Texas I don’t need anything else. Now if I need to get out to 300 yards I have something for that but not around here. I wished more people used suppressed rifles.
This is exactly why we were taught in our scout sniper platoons to know exactly what the difference is between the 2. Ground into our hades from day one. Knowing the difference is critical. Lots of practice with both is critical at different distances and angles of the shots. Without being professionally trained, it's exactly like Mr Randy says.
You are absolutely right about long range shooting. The rifles of most guys in Elk Camp are not sighted in properly. They have the gunsmith bore site it and think it's CLOSE ENOUGH.
I do like the way you think. Have been saying the same thing for years. The worst thing to happen to ethical hunters was watching and buying into the hype of shows like Best of the West. Hell, they've made fools out of a lot of hunters with the "buy my rifle, shoot game at 1000 yards" crap. Have a Hollands brake on a 338 RUM, changed the point of impact several inches, but the weight tightened my group by 50%. Barrel harmonics really go along ways on group size. My $0.02. Thanx.
personally, i feel that shooting at extreme ranges like he describes people doing is not hunting, its just taking foolish. for me, id rather see how close i can get to the game before i even consider trying to harvest it. too many people think you can buy accuracy and skill without putting in any effort or range time. but, thats just my thought. thank you, sir, for yet another great video.
My 6.5 PRC uses a suppressor and shots 1/2 MOA The barrel harmonics obviously alter when you add mass to the barrel. If you’re using brakes or suppression devices use them at the range and in the field.
I used to think and feel as you do. Then I bought one. Now I have one on every rifle I own. They never come off except for cleaning and maintenance, so no POI shift. If I would know then when I was younger, I would not have 60% hearing loss in one ear and 40% in the other. Yes, I always wore double hearing protection at the range, but never in the field hunting. So may I suggest you continue to never wear your seatbelt, wear safety glasses, steel toed boots and wash your hands before you eat. It is just your opinion. If I’m wrong, show me how many suppressors you own. Everything you said about hunting is spot on. I sense you have never shot with a quality suppressor and experienced the improvement it provides on a quality rifle. Please research why F1 match shooters use suppressors. Hint: It is not noise abatement.
I absolutely respect Mr. Selbys knowledge and position but I feel he is talking about one single person here or maybe what he thinks of a group of people. I have the utmost respect for our wildlife and the energy it gives me with its harvest but I would never shoot something past 500 yards and that is pushing it especially with any sort of wind. My guns have specific suppressors for different purposes and my hunting suppressor while adding 6 or so inches only weighs 10 ounces and has only tightened my groups at 100 by 0.1 MOA with some of my loads shooting under 0.2 MOA which I feel is quite ethical. I guess I wouldnt lump the majority of suppressor owners in the long range hunting crowd as I use one so I'll be able to hear my grandkids voices better attempting to mitigate the tinnitus. Keep up the videos as I enjoy your point of view and how you look at this modern world of ours through older eyes.
Agree 💯! Long range is great fun, but it's for paper and steel and actual military snipers. When hunting, it's the closer the better. Put the hunt back into hunting!
That's the way I see it also ! Just because a rifle is capable of shot long distances does not mean the person owning that rifle is any where near capable of shooting those distances period !!!
Most people forget the physical fitness that goes into being a military sniper, and don’t have the cardiovascular health necessary to take the long distance shot. I re-learned this at 54 years old, and am now taking the appropriate steps to get back into physical condition to support the intent.
My kids creedmoor is sighed in with a suppressor all year with the exception of when hunting. All rifles to be used for hunting are zero’d in the manner in which they’ll be hunted with. The poa/ poi, in my rifles are less than 3/4 moa when compared shooting suppressed and with a thread protector.
No matter how stable your shooting system is, if you tinker with any part please take the time to quickly verify zero. Unless you want to lose a competition or live through a hunting nightmare.
I am a big fan of linear compensators. They push a lot of the blast forward on the gun and away from the shooter and provide mild recoil reduction. I put it on, and leave it there.
I am glad you brought them up. I remember when the mb were starting to get popular here. Different manufacturers would say there's were the best because of this angle or that one. But the thing was all of them said the angles counted the recoil by making the gas go any direction other than straight out of the rifle. If your device is sending the blast forward. Hows that Different than the barrel sending the gas forward? Mb are something I never used so never studied or thought much about them.
@@tbjtbj4786 blast from a gun does not go forward. It goes in all directions right at the end of the barrel. Kind of like a set of speakers. You hear best right in front of them, but you can still hear them on the sides and rear. Most muzzle brakes direct the gasses into the brake. The gasses hit the holes or ports and that pushes the gun forward. But the gasses and blast also bounce off them and are re directed back towards the shooter. A linear compensator catches the gasses, and re directs them forward Into a shelf. This reduces recoil and breaks up the sound wave and helps push it away from the shooter.
I tell people about this all the time especially at long ranges, I run a muzzle brake at the range and I hunt with a suppressor but I know exactly how many clicks it is for the point of aim change. I also stress to them if they have a device that threads on to make sure it is tight or it will change your point of aim due to the harmonics I have had it happen with a simple thread protector that came loose.
@@jonpatterson7211 I’m not Rich but I’ll inform you my perspective. on most calibers the majority of suppressors make the rifle hearing safe. Which prevents hearing damage. Something hunters have been struggled with since someone decided to put black powder in a iron tube and stick a projectile down after. Silencers also reduced recoil. The statement that silencers add 9”-10” is not always correct many of the more popular suppressors are around 7”-8”, though there are plenty of 9”- 10” available. A titanium silencers will add only ounces not a pound plus. You may notice at least East of the Mississippi, shorter barrels on gun store shelves 16”-20” in calibers like 6.5cm and 308. Within 300 yards on a white tail that short of a barrel in those calibers will have a minimal effect on energy on target, especially for whitetail/small black bear/pronghorn ect. Those short barrels provide adequate energy and allow for a silencer to be mounted giving a traditional “barrel length” (16”barrel + 10” silencer= 26”) 26” is not an abnormal barrel length for a hunting rifle. Additionally to speak on length there are many suppressors that are quick detach and can be carried on a pouch and mounted to the rifle in seconds, once a position has been established to make a shot on game. While that time can be valuable most situations will allow for it. Also the idea that someone who as gone through the process of buying a silencer and doesn’t know that they can change POI is laughable. Anyone with a suppressor will zero their rifle with it. As it makes shooting and hunting much more enjoyable, it’s not the movies but it make a difference.
I make sure my suppressor on the same way every time that I have to take it off. I have it marked and it goes to the 12 o’clock position when I go to screw it on the barrel. It ends up in the same location once it is screwed on. I tend to keep my shots to 300 or less, just because of my location in the South East. Most shots are 100yds or less. I’ve done this multiple times to confirm that it hits in the same spot repeatedly. A little time, saves a lot of trouble.
I started using silencers (can, suppressor, donkey dick, whatever) on my rifles early in the 90s. You try to create a problem that doesn't exist. If you start using silencers you will never look back. Less noise, less kick, and better precision.
How about a ported barrel, instead of a muzzle break ? Would you prefer a ported barrel to a muzzle break ? Being a layman and not having a ported barreled rifle ,I would think a ported barrel would be superior . As for a suppressor ,it seems useless ,unless you use subsonic ammo and are using it only with a certain rifle that ,as you said has been sighted in for . I can see a use as pest control i.e. coyotes , bobcats and wild hogs, at night with a thermal scope ,where it is legal to do so , as not to annoy people or livestock . Getting back to my question . Is a ported barrel on a rifle better than a screw on muzzle break? Love your videos ,as they are very thorough ,and have much wisdom in them. God Bless you and your loved ones
Uncle Buzz - That was a good question and fairly stated. Are you referring to companies such as "Mag-na-port" which actually made vertical slanted cuts near the end of the barrel? Each review I have read or heard over the years said they were effective at reducing recoil, but were LOUD on the ears.
I use a suppressor to shield the hearing of any hunting dogs present. The shift in poi with or without the suppressor is big. For storage it is a good idea to remove the suppressor so that no moisture is trapped dripping down the barrel. My Gun safe has limited space so i cant leave the suppressors on the barrel anyway. So on with my thread protectors. They almost never leave the gun safe. The advice in the video is important. Always train with the setup you som to hunt with. And Hunt with the setup you train with.
Fair comment, except for the fact most people know the rifle only stays sighted with the exact same combination. I use a suppressor on my 300 Win Mag all of the time.
@@robleo69 anytime you have more than 1/2 second flight time the animal can move cUse wounding. You cant assume the animal will not move. All the rest you mentioned has no point when you have to assume.
400 yards should be the max yardage for a lot of reasons one being most rifles will drop X number of inches at 400 yards and just adding that 100 yards to 500 yard they will drop almost as much again just to shoot 500 yard , in other words you will have to know your rifle and have a sticker on the side of your rifle with the number of clicks to raise it.. to shoot 500 yards and do it right
Know your gun, know it's zero. I recently tossed a brake onto my CZ-527 (7.62x39) and it shifted the zero down by 6 inches at 50 yards. Not a big deal, I just re-zeroed it. But I don't doubt there are people out there who would just assume nothing would change. Same is true with a suppressor. Some guns + suppressor combo's don't care. It seems none of my 22LR's do. But once again, that's frequently not the case. I suspect it's just that I'm shooting heavy barrel 22's with a super light titanium can. That's not the kind of behavior you can normally expect. Same applies to ammo of course. Swap from one ammo to another, even the same bullet type and weight, and it may shoot somewhere totally different. In fact I can almost guarantee it will.
Even swapping from one box of ammo to the next (same maker, only different lots), can make the combo shoot different enough to cause problems. Just as changing elevation or temperature can wreak havoc on extended range accuracy. As can a small impact during transport. An ethical hunter should regularly check his guns zero; but at the least whenever he changes something with his setup (including any cleaning that includes any dis/reassembly or the bore) or travels to a new hunting ground.
You don’t need a thread protector unless you want to take the flash suppressor off. Then you need a thread protector so you can change your mind again later. If I was gonna hunt with an AR type rifle I could see the advantage of not having that flash suppressor on there. So pulling it off and putting a thread protector on and yes of course check and adjust zero, makes sense because that A2 style flash suppressor directs a lot of muzzle blast toward the shooter making it fine for range and situations when you’ll be putting ear plugs in first but hunting you want the sound to go forward not towards you.
Everyone should have a suppressor. They are incredibly handy and there are a lot of documented benefits to suppressors. If you're really freaking out about an extra couple ounces you need to work out more. 2. If a gun smith knows what he is doing, then going from muzzle break, to protector, to a suppressor is very repeatable and predictable. If a shooter is actually serious they will take the time to map the groups when going between muzzle devices and note changes in velocity. Takes maybe 5 minutes to gather the required information. If a shooter goes for a hunt without checking zero they are a dumbass. Suppressors that are well made will not impact the accuracy of the host rifle system.
Lol. Could have summed this up in just a couple of quick sentences without all the anger. Whatever you put on the end of your barrel whether it's a thread protector, muzzle break or suppressor, be sure to sight it in for the application. Pretty simple.
all about the training to fine tune your skills and dope. would never hunt without my suppressor after having utilized them for over three years now. increased velocity and smaller groups at every distance that my weapon platform is capable of ethically harvesting an animal. also agreed that data needs to be gathered for both suppressed and unsuppressed in case any foreign material gets lodged in the can. ie the 308 i have been shooting was a 4'' difference between the zeros at 100 yards. data that needs to be gathered before hand for sure
I shoot suppressed and won't ever go back. That being said each rifle has a dedicated direct thread can that will live with that rifle forever. I've seen people take apart their can and clean it then not index the internals how they came out and now once the can is back on the rifle they don't understand why their POI has shifted.
Good coverage, I do agree as a whole , however ; in regards to silencer making accuracy worse this can be a complicated discussion ( to many factors for the short of it) most of the time silencers increase consistency when using a properly setup load and rifle, except for the first shot. Cold bore shot impact can be considerably different even without a silencer ( discussion for another time) point being I have 2 rifles I can use one silencer on , one rifle the silencer makes no noticeable difference for cold bore impact. The other rifle it makes probably 2 times plus the normal cold bore impact keeping this rifle to a maximum 200yd and under when using the silencer and except for your ears secondary report pretty much disappears after 200yds as far as the animal is concerned ( another topic for another time ). Trying to make it short. As for the under educated ( concerning firearms)hunter your assessment is spot on. I really like how you put things in a real world perspective. Keep up the good work in educating the uneducated and undereducated masses. Thank you.
Thanks for the information, but I actually thought that it was obvious that one had to shoot the rifle with a silencer/mussel break to get the right point of impact.
I will take it under consideration. From a hunting stand point, inside practical hunting ranges, you should shoot various bullets at the range, loads and learn the difference in YOUR rifle, as what works in one, even of same make, caliber, etc, may not work in another. Thanks for watching.
I have a setting for suppressed (a Hausken suppressor, that ads under 4" to the gun) and one for unsuppressed on my scopes fast adjustment dial. Luckily the suppressor just causes the POI of my setup to shift in elevation (unsuppressed being 9 clicks down from suppressed). Though I have yet to take an unsuppressed shot on game with it. (I mainly have the unsuppressed setting for the case of having to track a wounded animal into dense vegetation, where the extra length would be complicating things) I am very much disagreeing with suppressors being automatically detrimental to accuracy/precision though. On most guns (and with proper load development) they actually lend themselves to better cold-bore precision compared to no muzzle device. Never mind the fact that most people will shoot a lot better with it due to the reduced concussion and recoil. That being said; I very much agree with the underlying message against these unethical long distance trick-shots or shots without really knowing your equipment on game. Something to add to that, would be also the sheer time of flight that such distances bring. Even if you shoot with a hypothetical 0 MOA railgun in 0 wind, the bullet still need some time to make the distance. And people routinely underestimate how far an animal can move in ½ a second (and thats just 400 yards with normal bullet speeds; at 800yards it is already more than a second).
@Brian Dawson it's moa it doesn't matter. Mil is that i use, so yeah you are 100% correct it's 1/2. Here in Norway we do not use this. But 14.5 mm and 7.25 mm is what I mean.
Can shoot at .25- .5 moa or can consistently? And how many shots to a group. Lot of info left out in your statement. Plus Randy wasnt saying a supressor cant hold tight groups, he was saying dont mess with your setup after you zero the rifle and expect your point of impact to be the same.
People need to absorb this man’s knowledge, Mr Randy has built a legacy for everyone to enjoy
It's all about training and your skills. No animal deserves to wounded and suffer. Anytime you change your gun you need to go to the range.
Great summary. I typically even double check my zero when adding electrical tape to the muzzle for protection from obstructions when hunting. I’ve not had it affect the zero, yet.
I wasn’t raised around hunting or shooting, but I was in the drag racing world for a good while. One thing you learn very quickly is that things don’t perform exactly the same on any given day. Now that I do hunt, I record the weather conditions on each trip to the range. If I know I’m going hunting and it’s 40 degrees with a 10 mph wind and I last shot in 85 degrees with no wind, I hit the range to verify my zero. “Good enough” is NOT good enough! When a fellow hunter misses a shot, I ask what their groups looked like. When they say 3” at 100 yards, I tell them to go buy 3 brands of ammo and 2 bullet weights from each brand. Then shoot all of them until they can stack 5 shots inside 1” at 100 yards. They call me ocd. They also all agree I don’t miss. They sit around the fire and get drunk each night hoping something walks by close enough for them to shoot. I don’t drink, I go to bed early, and Lord willing, always hit what I aim at. Hunting is not when you figure out how off your zero is.
Not all of us are like that Mr. Selby, I've got my data on PoI shift out to 600yds with half dozen different bullets. Just saying that to give you some hope in the younger generation. But I love hearing you get on to the ones who don't do their due diligence!
I agree with you Randy 100%! I hunt suppressed down here in Texas and I had to work up a completely different load for my rifle and take it to distance to make sure the accuracy was there! It amazes me that so many people think adding these Devices on the end of your rifle doesn’t make a difference!!
Great video. Been waiting for this to come out. This is the reason I watch this gentleman and refrain from others like Backfire
Glad to see you are back. Looking good
Once again when this gentleman speaks, I listen and that’s the end of it for me!!!
I own multiple suppressors, hunt with suppressors, and compete with suppressors and I disagree with just about everything you just said about suppressors... Now I don't hunt long range no matter where I hunt around the country 350 to 400 yards is my limit on what I consider ethical and most shots I've taken has probably been 200 yards and in so that I whole heartily agree with you on everything you just said about hunting. We owe that animal enough respect that if we're going to shoot it we're not taking that shot with a "I hope it hits where I want it to" attitude. But again out of the dozen or so suppressors I own none of them decrease accuracy it's actually the other way around, I have extremely lightweight suppressors specifically for hunting or low volume shooting, and I have short suppressors as well . Now there's definitely suppressors out there that do fall under what you're saying and adding one to your gun will definitely change your point of impact and that is something everyone should be aware of especially if you're hunting with it. Also if you remove a suppressor to clean your rifle the vast majority have a really good return to zero but again if you're hunting you owe it to the animal to double check that. I don't know if maybe I misunderstood you and that's what you were meaning... There's definitely a bunch of people out there that don't care enough to learn these things and an animal is only a trophy to put on the wall to them or a story to tell but I've hunted all over the country and do my best to catch, kill, or grow my food whenever possible so again I whole heartily agree with what you were saying about hunting...
I don’t think Randy ever said that suppressors make a gun less accurate. What he said is that your point of impact changes when using versus not using one. I happen to agree with everything he said!
@@craiglacount89 he outright said you can’t get accuracy out of it.
@@craiglacount89 5:05-5:21 there's where he said it
@Brian Dawson 2:45-3:15 (suppressor description) and 5:05-5:21(claiming suppressors are inaccurate) so apparently we didn't watch the same video...
I'm not trying to drag the dude in any way just pointing out some of what he's talking about suppressors is inaccurate. He ws lumping in some of the older bad things about suppressors which is for the most part no longer being used or sold with all the good and making general statement as a catch all when only a little of it is actually true. I particularly appreciate what he's talking about when it comes to the newer generation of these long range hunting guys or the weekend warriors that can't be bothered with learning a little bit about what hunting is to most of us or when you change something on your firearm it can and normally does change your point of impact. That's why you should always check your zero no questions asked if anything is changed especially when it comes to your barrel, optic, and ammo. This kind of thing really is taking hunting in the wrong direction but again I get where he's trying to go with this. To lots of people this is all common knowledge but the suppressor thing is not just a fad they have a lot to offer to the hunting community and can be extremely useful and just make the whole experience a lot more enjoyable...
Looking good, Mr. Selby! Happy you're back and healthy.
Thank you! We had a few rough months! And thanks for watching.
Zero scope with suppressor, do not use rifle without it. Suppressors save hearing, add accuracy and is just fun to use. This is not complicated.
I know, just have it set up with a suppressor and have good D.O.P.E. Cards for it use it
Some truth bombs for Randy:
1. A properly built/smithed rifle will have repeatability between changes from bare muzzle, break, or suppressor. Most don’t switch between the three. If it isn’t repeatable, you need a new gunsmith.
Just log shifts, dial it in, and bam! It’s that easy.
2. Suppressors oftentimes INCREASE accuracy, saves your hearing, and reduces ground signature.
3. Suppressors designed for hunting tend to weigh ounces, not pounds.
4. Despite your anecdotal evidence, truth is people aren’t constantly switching this stuff around.
I’m not sorry at all to give my personal report. This report is a video documented as well as paper documented. And I have to start off by saying that I completely disagree with the bulk of your statements. We recently built a precision long range rifle Chambered in 6.5 PRC. It is threaded for a muzzle brake. The muzzle brake is an Area419 Hellfire Match. I also have a thread protector. As well as a thunder beast ultra 9” Gen II. This test took a couple of days to complete. First zero at 100 yards. Shooting at 100, 200, and 300 yards with a muzzle, brake, suppressor and thread cover. There was absolutely no deviation in impact of round.
BS
I’ve been hunting/shooting suppressed for a couple years now and aside from my big and medium bores I will never go back to hunting unsuppressed again. Except for my 1 30-06 I have for exclusively for hunting in Canada because they don’t allow suppressors. I do load development for all of my rifles with the suppressor on and all of my bolt guns shoot 1/2 moa or better. So idk where he’s saying you can’t get accuracy out of rifles that are suppressed. He’s not wrong that they shift POI but if you sight it in for it there’s nothing wrong with hunting with it.
Amen Mr. Selby.. May God grant us time to rethink everything. That hunting, in essence, is stalking as close as possible to our majestic game, and not taking impossible shots at extended ranges for bragging rights
In summary: Anytime you hang a different component on the end of your barrel you are changing the barrel harmonics and effecting your POI.
Consistency is one of the hallmarks of accuracy.
In the age of information I can't believe we have to have a video to explain this to people.
No kidding...its called barrel harmonics. When you put a can on your rifle of course you're going to have to sight it in.
Real words of common sense. Thank you. I always repeat what my grandfather used to say,” you can fix stupid.” Ethical hunting is the message within the message. Keep your videos coming please.
Love Randy or not he sure gets people talking in these comments! I love the guy btw and I thank him AND hope he keeps up his great content 👍
You are so right when I added a muzzle brake on my 308 it changed my zero by 3 inches
I really enjoy your straight forward approach to these topics. I understand your concern for people not knowing their equipment before hunting. The thing I would like to bring up is, you are making it sound like everyone with a break or a suppressor is an irresponsible hunter, or at least aren’t accurate. Where I start to question the geralization in your message here is because I don’t know many people who would invest the money into a good rifle and a suppressor and not do their due diligence before going hunting. Maybe they are out there, but I don’t know any of them.
Thanks for your wisdom.
Glad you're back from the covid effects. Your knowledge is impressive and helps me.
I just shot two whitetail in Wyoming last week with a 308. Range was 137 yards on the doe and sixty yards on the buck. 150 grain accubond hand loaded ammo. Don’t need to shoot 3/4 of a mile on game no matter where you are
Agreed for the most part..There are places where they just have mountain ranges as far as the eye can see..It is harder to get close like we can on the East Coast..Even then, your shot shouldn't exceed your skill level. A shot you can make 99% of the time is a green light in my book
And most people don’t have the opportunity to shoot at longer distances.
Hi Randy, I have a question for you. As far as head space goes. Which do you think is more forgiving, head space off the belt or off the shoulder. I have .458 win, .338 win, 375 HH, and a 7mm mag, all head space off the belt. Never a misfire, ever. I have a .416 Ruger that head spaces off the shoulder, and I do now and again get a misfire. When I reload for .416, I have to make sure that the primer is fully seated in the primer pocket and pushed in well in order not to misfire. I was wonder what you think? thanks!
Always seat primers to the bottom of the primer pocket. Loose cases, that are oversized, can cause a firing problem as there is headspace from case head base to the shoulder.
Thanks for watching.
I totally agree 100% with what you said that you will change point of impact by adding or removing a muzzlebrake or suppressor i learned that when I was at gunsmith school at CST
All this re-zeroing, LOL! Guess some folks have easy access to more plentiful, inexpensive ammunition than the rest of us.
Another great video that speaks to common sense and ethical hunting!
Thank you for the video yall I've learned so much from all of your videos and always look forward to them.thanks again and please keep them coming and God bless
Well said thankyou an God bless you I still check my hunting rilfe every year to see were cold bore shot is going to hit
It's really not a big deal.. The thread protector is for shooting with a suppressor, for when you take the suppressor off. That's all. If you plan on just using a muzzle brake, the muzzle brake just stays on. If you then want to shoot suppressed you do it and just put the brake back on it. The thread protector is only needed if you don't use a muzzle brake and shoot suppressed. The only time that changes is if you use a certain muzzle brake that pairs up with a suppressor, and still it's just 2 zeroes that you need to write down and remember. For most shooters it's not a big deal though. I have a certain zero for shooting suppressed, and a zero for shooting unsuppressed. If you write down your changes from one to the other they should stay basically the same everytime. I have a huge 30 caliber suppessor that changes my zero 1.4 MILRAD at 100 yards.... But same goes for changing elevations and different temperatures. You would need to re-zero if you go from one state to the next for a hunt, or from one country to the next for different combat zones...You should always know your zero when changing conditions period!
I see you all over TH-cam same interests as me haha
@@Hermann-lz2jb great minds think alike lol
@@50StichesSteel you use discord or anything? I used to work for a SOT always looking for new parts kits or stuff to trade or just buddies in the same hobby
@@Hermann-lz2jb I'm a little familiar with discord but I'm kind of a boomer with using it lol
It comes down to this if you do not take your firearm to the range shortly before season with the setup and ammo you intend to use and zero it you are doing it wrong. Also you should know at what range you can consistently hit an 8" paper plate with that set up and ammo combo!
Right on the money, Randy. Heck, I check the zero even if I change primers or powder charges or types. I will never shoot at game at extreme ranges.
So nice to hear from you.. god bless
I am sure there are idiots out there but if you have a suppressor for a rifle I doubt many are newbies to shooting. I have never come across someone that would just willynilly swap a muzzle break and suppressor without rezeroing the rifle. Of course it changes the point of impact how could it not. And many suppressors are much smaller and lighter weight than you are saying. I have a few that are under 8” long and weight no more than 12 oz. my favorite is 7” and weights 8 oz. and is very quiet.
Just a few weeks ago relatives came hunting to my place in Montana that had put their suppressors on to hunt with. We rezeroed each rifle and checked accuracy at distance all the way to 1000 yards they actually shot better with the suppressor on than not. Range target 1015 yards look at drop chart on Verified data, I gave them the wind call to hold in there reticle and when they were ready from a bipod and rear bag hit center on the plate which was 18”x18” all the way out from 300 to 1015 yards on various sized targets first round hits. Only one shot the wind died and it hit .3 to the right still with in the vitals on a coyote sized target at 700 yards. Practice and accuracy make it happen. Magnum rifles have lots of energy on target but also lots of recoil to the shooter that hinder most people in shooting accurately and not wanting to practice.
Welcome back Mr Shelby!
Hey Randy sir we’ve missed you I pray everything is going great Amen 🙏
I always resight my rifle before deer season. I usually shoot through the spring and summer at longer ranges with one load off a bipod and rear bag but i hunt with a different load with my longest shots being taken off of a front shooting rest. So during my "hunting sight-in" I try to duplicate how I will be shooting in the field. You'd be amazed at how shooting from a rest vs shooting from a bipod can change POI ,even with the same load and no scope adjustments during the same shooting session.
With all due respect, I would not. I ran a club range complex for 14 years, with the assistance of other people. The only rifles (in my experience) that can sometimes be shot with little or no variation in bullet impact between bipod shooting and prone-supported shooting tend to be heavy barrelled .22 rifles using good quality subsonic ammo (1,035 to 1,080 fps i.e., NOT the cheap 900fps rubbish that some people use in lieu of a suppressor) and reportedly some sniper rifles or close analogues thereof.
I agree that you have to test rifle/ammo combinations and use a notebook to record all relevant information.
I have heard people say this man is stuck in the 70s and he makes up everything he says. Two things wrong with that: experience has been his teacher and he has a high standard of ethics. Those make a great combination to share with others.
Your exactly right sir if more people would get off their high horse and listen to you it’d be a lot different. People won’t listen though
This dude is on a high horse.
Or they can’t hear because they shoot unsuppressed
I love this old grumpy bastard, he speaks the truth
I know him personally, and a GOF he is NOT! Just does not suffer fools lightly.
@@TODinWY so many fools around in this day and age it will make a good fellas head spin
💯% truth! Thank you Randy
Wise words from Randy as usual
YOU ARE THE MAN !!!!!
Thank you
Great video Randy! Another thing to bear in mind is when you thread the muzzle end of a button rifled barrel the barrel can stress relieve and the bore can grow. 001 or more in diameter. There is no replacement for ethics and good hunting skills.
Can you link the source of your .001 growth? That would be an amazing amount of growth. I think you meant .0001
@@duckslayer11000 I have measured it myself with pin gouges right where a muzzle is threaded. .001 is the growth . Button rifling will stress relieve when you cut it. You also notice it when you are threading.
@@stevecovert314 so I assume you are using .0001 increment pin gauges? Otherwise the standard .001 increments would be giving you a false impression. The pin size that wouldn't fit before the next one that would could have a .0009 clearance since working with such large jumps in size.
Your measurement tool needs to be 10 times as accurate as your measurement claim.
@@duckslayer11000 yes I used. 0001 gouges. You can also tell that the button rifled barrels are stress relieving when you are threading them because they will sometimes make a heavy cut that is more than what you set. All that displaced steel will move. There are several videos about this. Yes I have access to better gauging equipment than most gunsmiths.
Suppressors are handy on a rifle because they save your hearing and everyone else's hearing around you.
It's a muffler for your rifle, same as a muffler for your car. If the muffler on your car fell off would you replace it because how obnoxious the sound is?
Also, zero your rifle with and without a can.
Hi I have a ar 223 55.6 I'm having trouble w it at 100 yard s it will hit a dime at 200 Or 250 it is hitting 10 Inc to 12 inc to the right I have put 3 new scoops on it and it is still dong the same thang do you thank I need to buy a new barrel for it or W do you thank it might be
SALUTE! Exactly and Thank You!
Well said, thank you!
I have rifles I’ve never fired without a suppressor on them. Sight them in with the can practice with the can and hunt with the can. I use light weight titanium suppressors they are nice to take the edge off and reduce recoil. It’s all preference really. Don’t get me wrong if I was building the ultimate mountain rifle I would just go with a muzzle brake and keep the weight even lower.
I wouldn’t argue that suppressors have their place, however, I’ve never had one and probably never will…never felt the need for one. A muzzle break is sometimes a necessity for hard recoiling chamberings and helps with flinching when getting pummeled by shooting multiple rounds in a heavy recoiling chambering. Personally I prefer to sight my rifles, check the sighting at different ranges by using hold over, and then leave them as they are set. It is a piss poor person who does not know his rifle and/or cannot stalk in to a closer range for the kill shot. I say person and not hunter because a hunter will know his rifle and always stalk in to get a closer shot. Thanks for the excellent video @therealgunsmith
You should really shoot a suppressor at least once you may find you really like it and they also cut down on recoil as well. They are a good time
Sir, I live in a farming area, most people have 25 to 200 acre homesteads. The only deer or hog hunting I do is with a 300 blackout suppressed rifle with subs. I do it simply because I don’t need a 2nd shot between 50 to 100 yards and I’m not wanting to disturb my neighbors. Here in NE Texas I don’t need anything else. Now if I need to get out to 300 yards I have something for that but not around here. I wished more people used suppressed rifles.
I tell potential customers this exact information a hundred times a year - most don't listen.
Well said! Plane and simple....
This is exactly why we were taught in our scout sniper platoons to know exactly what the difference is between the 2. Ground into our hades from day one. Knowing the difference is critical. Lots of practice with both is critical at different distances and angles of the shots. Without being professionally trained, it's exactly like Mr Randy says.
Cathy Selby you have a great tolerance methinks.
You are absolutely right about long range shooting. The rifles of most guys in Elk Camp are not sighted in properly. They have the gunsmith bore site it and think it's CLOSE ENOUGH.
I like the way you tell it like it is.
Great energy, thank you.
I do like the way you think. Have been saying the same thing for years. The worst thing to happen to ethical hunters was watching and buying into the hype of shows like Best of the West. Hell, they've made fools out of a lot of hunters with the "buy my rifle, shoot game at 1000 yards" crap.
Have a Hollands brake on a 338 RUM, changed the point of impact several inches, but the weight tightened my group by 50%. Barrel harmonics really go along ways on group size. My $0.02. Thanx.
personally, i feel that shooting at extreme ranges like he describes people doing is not hunting, its just taking foolish. for me, id rather see how close i can get to the game before i even consider trying to harvest it. too many people think you can buy accuracy and skill without putting in any effort or range time. but, thats just my thought.
thank you, sir, for yet another great video.
My 6.5 PRC uses a suppressor and shots 1/2 MOA
The barrel harmonics obviously alter when you add mass to the barrel. If you’re using brakes or suppression devices use them at the range and in the field.
I used to think and feel as you do. Then I bought one. Now I have one on every rifle I own. They never come off except for cleaning and maintenance, so no POI shift. If I would know then when I was younger, I would not have 60% hearing loss in one ear and 40% in the other. Yes, I always wore double hearing protection at the range, but never in the field hunting. So may I suggest you continue to never wear your seatbelt, wear safety glasses, steel toed boots and wash your hands before you eat. It is just your opinion. If I’m wrong, show me how many suppressors you own.
Everything you said about hunting is spot on. I sense you have never shot with a quality suppressor and experienced the improvement it provides on a quality rifle. Please research why F1 match shooters use suppressors. Hint: It is not noise abatement.
I absolutely respect Mr. Selbys knowledge and position but I feel he is talking about one single person here or maybe what he thinks of a group of people. I have the utmost respect for our wildlife and the energy it gives me with its harvest but I would never shoot something past 500 yards and that is pushing it especially with any sort of wind. My guns have specific suppressors for different purposes and my hunting suppressor while adding 6 or so inches only weighs 10 ounces and has only tightened my groups at 100 by 0.1 MOA with some of my loads shooting under 0.2 MOA which I feel is quite ethical. I guess I wouldnt lump the majority of suppressor owners in the long range hunting crowd as I use one so I'll be able to hear my grandkids voices better attempting to mitigate the tinnitus. Keep up the videos as I enjoy your point of view and how you look at this modern world of ours through older eyes.
Well said mate.
Agree 💯! Long range is great fun, but it's for paper and steel and actual military snipers. When hunting, it's the closer the better. Put the hunt back into hunting!
That's the way I see it also !
Just because a rifle is capable of shot long distances does not mean the person owning that rifle is any where near capable of shooting those distances period !!!
Yess!!
Most people forget the physical fitness that goes into being a military sniper, and don’t have the cardiovascular health necessary to take the long distance shot. I re-learned this at 54 years old, and am now taking the appropriate steps to get back into physical condition to support the intent.
Well get your stone hatchet out then...
@@OvertonWindex I've been in situations where they would have worked!
My kids creedmoor is sighed in with a suppressor all year with the exception of when hunting. All rifles to be used for hunting are zero’d in the manner in which they’ll be hunted with. The poa/ poi, in my rifles are less than 3/4 moa when compared shooting suppressed and with a thread protector.
Right on 👍
What do you think of a suppressor, for yodeldogs at 200 yd?
Should work fine. Good hunting.
Thanks for watching.
No matter how stable your shooting system is, if you tinker with any part please take the time to quickly verify zero. Unless you want to lose a competition or live through a hunting nightmare.
I am a big fan of linear compensators. They push a lot of the blast forward on the gun and away from the shooter and provide mild recoil reduction. I put it on, and leave it there.
I am glad you brought them up.
I remember when the mb were starting to get popular here.
Different manufacturers would say there's were the best because of this angle or that one.
But the thing was all of them said the angles counted the recoil by making the gas go any direction other than straight out of the rifle.
If your device is sending the blast forward. Hows that Different than the barrel sending the gas forward?
Mb are something I never used so never studied or thought much about them.
@@tbjtbj4786 blast from a gun does not go forward. It goes in all directions right at the end of the barrel. Kind of like a set of speakers. You hear best right in front of them, but you can still hear them on the sides and rear. Most muzzle brakes direct the gasses into the brake. The gasses hit the holes or ports and that pushes the gun forward. But the gasses and blast also bounce off them and are re directed back towards the shooter. A linear compensator catches the gasses, and re directs them forward Into a shelf. This reduces recoil and breaks up the sound wave and helps push it away from the shooter.
I tell people about this all the time especially at long ranges, I run a muzzle brake at the range and I hunt with a suppressor but I know exactly how many clicks it is for the point of aim change. I also stress to them if they have a device that threads on to make sure it is tight or it will change your point of aim due to the harmonics I have had it happen with a simple thread protector that came loose.
Rich, just out of curiosity, why do you hunt with a suppressor?
@@jonpatterson7211 For me it is the Recoil and the noise 👍
@@jonpatterson7211 I’m not Rich but I’ll inform you my perspective. on most calibers the majority of suppressors make the rifle hearing safe. Which prevents hearing damage. Something hunters have been struggled with since someone decided to put black powder in a iron tube and stick a projectile down after.
Silencers also reduced recoil.
The statement that silencers add 9”-10” is not always correct many of the more popular suppressors are around 7”-8”, though there are plenty of 9”- 10” available. A titanium silencers will add only ounces not a pound plus.
You may notice at least East of the Mississippi, shorter barrels on gun store shelves 16”-20” in calibers like 6.5cm and 308. Within 300 yards on a white tail that short of a barrel in those calibers will have a minimal effect on energy on target, especially for whitetail/small black bear/pronghorn ect. Those short barrels provide adequate energy and allow for a silencer to be mounted giving a traditional “barrel length” (16”barrel + 10” silencer= 26”) 26” is not an abnormal barrel length for a hunting rifle.
Additionally to speak on length there are many suppressors that are quick detach and can be carried on a pouch and mounted to the rifle in seconds, once a position has been established to make a shot on game. While that time can be valuable most situations will allow for it.
Also the idea that someone who as gone through the process of buying a silencer and doesn’t know that they can change POI is laughable. Anyone with a suppressor will zero their rifle with it. As it makes shooting and hunting much more enjoyable, it’s not the movies but it make a difference.
@@jonpatterson7211 shoot long range for target easy on the ears
@@richsadventure9736 Got ya. Thanks, Rich. Be safe.
I make sure my suppressor on the same way every time that I have to take it off. I have it marked and it goes to the 12 o’clock position when I go to screw it on the barrel. It ends up in the same location once it is screwed on. I tend to keep my shots to 300 or less, just because of my location in the South East. Most shots are 100yds or less. I’ve done this multiple times to confirm that it hits in the same spot repeatedly. A little time, saves a lot of trouble.
I started using silencers (can, suppressor, donkey dick, whatever) on my rifles early in the 90s. You try to create a problem that doesn't exist. If you start using silencers you will never look back. Less noise, less kick, and better precision.
How about a ported barrel, instead of a muzzle break ?
Would you prefer a ported barrel to a muzzle break ?
Being a layman and not having a ported barreled rifle ,I would think a ported barrel would be superior .
As for a suppressor ,it seems useless ,unless you use subsonic ammo and are using it only with a certain rifle that ,as you said has been sighted in for .
I can see a use as pest control i.e. coyotes , bobcats and wild hogs, at night with a thermal scope ,where it is legal to do so , as not to annoy people or livestock .
Getting back to my question . Is a ported barrel on a rifle better than a screw on muzzle break?
Love your videos ,as they are very thorough ,and have much wisdom in them.
God Bless you and your loved ones
Uncle Buzz - That was a good question and fairly stated.
Are you referring to companies such as "Mag-na-port" which actually made vertical slanted cuts near the end of the barrel? Each review I have read or heard over the years said they were effective at reducing recoil, but were LOUD on the ears.
I use a suppressor to shield the hearing of any hunting dogs present.
The shift in poi with or without the suppressor is big. For storage it is a good idea to remove the suppressor so that no moisture is trapped dripping down the barrel.
My Gun safe has limited space so i cant leave the suppressors on the barrel anyway. So on with my thread protectors. They almost never leave the gun safe.
The advice in the video is important.
Always train with the setup you som to hunt with. And Hunt with the setup you train with.
Fair comment, except for the fact most people know the rifle only stays sighted with the exact same combination.
I use a suppressor on my 300 Win Mag all of the time.
I think 500 yds should be limit. Or 1/2 second bullet flight time. Any more than this the animal could move and then be wounded.
A lot can happen in a half second
@@randlerichardson5826 true thats why this should be an ethical limit. 1/2 equals just about 500 yds. Talking big game hunting deer and above.
It depends on the caliber. The marksman and his knowledge of his weapon and cartridge dictates the shot,and assuming the animal is not moving.
@@robleo69 anytime you have more than 1/2 second flight time the animal can move cUse wounding. You cant assume the animal will not move. All the rest you mentioned has no point when you have to assume.
400 yards should be the max yardage for a lot of reasons one being most rifles will drop X number of inches at 400 yards and just adding that 100 yards to 500 yard they will drop almost as much again just to shoot 500 yard , in other words you will have to know your rifle and have a sticker on the side of your rifle with the number of clicks to raise it.. to shoot 500 yards and do it right
Well said!
Great advice Randy as always. Its amazing the lack of common sense these days.
Common sense not so common anymore.
have you ever heard of a dope chart for the different configs for the rifle?
Know your gun, know it's zero. I recently tossed a brake onto my CZ-527 (7.62x39) and it shifted the zero down by 6 inches at 50 yards. Not a big deal, I just re-zeroed it. But I don't doubt there are people out there who would just assume nothing would change. Same is true with a suppressor. Some guns + suppressor combo's don't care. It seems none of my 22LR's do. But once again, that's frequently not the case. I suspect it's just that I'm shooting heavy barrel 22's with a super light titanium can. That's not the kind of behavior you can normally expect. Same applies to ammo of course. Swap from one ammo to another, even the same bullet type and weight, and it may shoot somewhere totally different. In fact I can almost guarantee it will.
Even swapping from one box of ammo to the next (same maker, only different lots), can make the combo shoot different enough to cause problems.
Just as changing elevation or temperature can wreak havoc on extended range accuracy. As can a small impact during transport.
An ethical hunter should regularly check his guns zero; but at the least whenever he changes something with his setup (including any cleaning that includes any dis/reassembly or the bore) or travels to a new hunting ground.
1) Better get up to date on suppressors. 2) You've never hunted with one.
Yea buddy👍
The more accessories = more work & possible problems ..IMO& experience
Love the crucifix on your gun cabinet
Lots of truth in this!
Amen!
You don’t need a thread protector unless you want to take the flash suppressor off. Then you need a thread protector so you can change your mind again later. If I was gonna hunt with an AR type rifle I could see the advantage of not having that flash suppressor on there. So pulling it off and putting a thread protector on and yes of course check and adjust zero, makes sense because that A2 style flash suppressor directs a lot of muzzle blast toward the shooter making it fine for range and situations when you’ll be putting ear plugs in first but hunting you want the sound to go forward not towards you.
Everyone should have a suppressor. They are incredibly handy and there are a lot of documented benefits to suppressors. If you're really freaking out about an extra couple ounces you need to work out more. 2. If a gun smith knows what he is doing, then going from muzzle break, to protector, to a suppressor is very repeatable and predictable. If a shooter is actually serious they will take the time to map the groups when going between muzzle devices and note changes in velocity. Takes maybe 5 minutes to gather the required information. If a shooter goes for a hunt without checking zero they are a dumbass. Suppressors that are well made will not impact the accuracy of the host rifle system.
Lol. Could have summed this up in just a couple of quick sentences without all the anger. Whatever you put on the end of your barrel whether it's a thread protector, muzzle break or suppressor, be sure to sight it in for the application. Pretty simple.
all about the training to fine tune your skills and dope. would never hunt without my suppressor after having utilized them for over three years now. increased velocity and smaller groups at every distance that my weapon platform is capable of ethically harvesting an animal. also agreed that data needs to be gathered for both suppressed and unsuppressed in case any foreign material gets lodged in the can. ie the 308 i have been shooting was a 4'' difference between the zeros at 100 yards. data that needs to be gathered before hand for sure
I shoot suppressed and won't ever go back. That being said each rifle has a dedicated direct thread can that will live with that rifle forever. I've seen people take apart their can and clean it then not index the internals how they came out and now once the can is back on the rifle they don't understand why their POI has shifted.
Good coverage, I do agree as a whole , however ; in regards to silencer making accuracy worse this can be a complicated discussion ( to many factors for the short of it) most of the time silencers increase consistency when using a properly setup load and rifle, except for the first shot. Cold bore shot impact can be considerably different even without a silencer ( discussion for another time) point being I have 2 rifles I can use one silencer on , one rifle the silencer makes no noticeable difference for cold bore impact. The other rifle it makes probably 2 times plus the normal cold bore impact keeping this rifle to a maximum 200yd and under when using the silencer and except for your ears secondary report pretty much disappears after 200yds as far as the animal is concerned ( another topic for another time ). Trying to make it short. As for the under educated ( concerning firearms)hunter your assessment is spot on. I really like how you put things in a real world perspective. Keep up the good work in educating the uneducated and undereducated masses. Thank you.
Thanks for the information, but I actually thought that it was obvious that one had to shoot the rifle with a silencer/mussel break to get the right point of impact.
Off topic. I love the etching on your gun cabinet
That’s a post production graphic
You could also weight your muzzle break and make your thread protector the same weight. Or weight all three and match
Randy could you please speak more about the 300 win mag ,and different bullet weights and how that affects the point of impact energy, thank you sir
I will take it under consideration.
From a hunting stand point, inside practical hunting ranges, you should shoot various bullets at the range, loads and learn the difference in YOUR rifle, as what works in one, even of same make, caliber, etc, may not work in another.
Thanks for watching.
I have a setting for suppressed (a Hausken suppressor, that ads under 4" to the gun) and one for unsuppressed on my scopes fast adjustment dial. Luckily the suppressor just causes the POI of my setup to shift in elevation (unsuppressed being 9 clicks down from suppressed).
Though I have yet to take an unsuppressed shot on game with it. (I mainly have the unsuppressed setting for the case of having to track a wounded animal into dense vegetation, where the extra length would be complicating things)
I am very much disagreeing with suppressors being automatically detrimental to accuracy/precision though. On most guns (and with proper load development) they actually lend themselves to better cold-bore precision compared to no muzzle device. Never mind the fact that most people will shoot a lot better with it due to the reduced concussion and recoil.
That being said; I very much agree with the underlying message against these unethical long distance trick-shots or shots without really knowing your equipment on game.
Something to add to that, would be also the sheer time of flight that such distances bring. Even if you shoot with a hypothetical 0 MOA railgun in 0 wind, the bullet still need some time to make the distance. And people routinely underestimate how far an animal can move in ½ a second (and thats just 400 yards with normal bullet speeds; at 800yards it is already more than a second).
Both my SAKOs don't have threads. I wouldn't dare touch those barrels. So no muzzle devices for me.
I shoot always with a Suppressor, and i make my loads with the suppressor, i can shoot 1/4 moa or 2/4 moa with all my rifle. 👍
@Brian Dawson it's moa it doesn't matter. Mil is that i use, so yeah you are 100% correct it's 1/2. Here in Norway we do not use this. But 14.5 mm and 7.25 mm is what I mean.
Can shoot at .25- .5 moa or can consistently? And how many shots to a group. Lot of info left out in your statement. Plus Randy wasnt saying a supressor cant hold tight groups, he was saying dont mess with your setup after you zero the rifle and expect your point of impact to be the same.
@Brian Dawson “just got told”? WTF you talking about?
But our majestic wildlife!
2/4 lmfao
I have never had a break or a suppressor on a proper rifle. I feel like I am doing fine without them.