The club didn't go after fans for saying Yids. It was the police and the courts that did. They banned the fans and it got over turn on appeal. The club always stood by fans regarding this situation.
The club began a fan consultation over the use of the term "Yid" in 2019. This was interrupted due to Covid but eventually they reached a wishy-washy conclusion as follows: As a Club, we always strive to create a welcoming environment that embraces all our fans so that every one of our supporters can feel included in the matchday experience. It is clear the use of this term does not always make this possible, regardless of context and intention, and that there is a growing desire and acknowledgment from supporters that the Y-word should be used less or stopped being used altogether. We recognise how these members of our fanbase feel and we also believe it is time to move on from associating this term with our Club. The adoption of the Y-word by our supporters from the late 1970's was a positive response to the lack of action taken by others around this issue. An increasing number of our fans now wish to see positive change again with the reduction of its use, something we welcome and shall look to support. We acknowledge that any reassessment of the use of this term needs to be a collaborative effort between the Club and its fans. We shall be working to further outline the historical context of the term, to explain the offence it can cause and to embrace the times in which we now live to show why it can be considered inappropriate regardless of context.
I received the letter from the club, it was in reference to a complaint from a legal body, the Black Solicitors Network. So it was organised external activism and THFC responded.
Wrong. Bayern had a jewish president that was forced to resign by the nazis. And the emblem change was also forced... Very superficial take on a complicated and sad history
I’m an Australian Jew who went to a spurs game with a non Jewish friend at white hart lane in the 90s .I was so surprised at the crown yelling out Yido Yido but as a Jew I loved it .I think they had Rony Rosental playing then .Now I love them more as they have a great Aussie coach .
The National Socialists (and others) referred to Bayern as the Judenklub I think primarily because the club was run by Jewish president Kurt Landauer from 1913 until 1951. He was briefly sent to a concentration camp but amazingly released after a few months after money changed hands. Landauer was instrumental in restarting the Bundesliga after the war.
Being a fan of Hannover 96, I can tell you that we also have a large Jewish community. In fact, the city of Hannover is heavily influenced by people with Jewish descent. Our active fan scene stands with Israel and the jewish people. You can also find many stickers with the star of David all over the city.
I’m dying, imagine being a neutral Jewish dude who just went to a football match not knowing much and looking over at the ultra section of Spurs or Ajax and they like: th-cam.com/video/j5Lo6X-PFDY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IaCLKBj1eza5hYuw
When we started chanting, "we are Yids, we are Yids", back in the 70's it was take ownership of the insult and to turn it into a badge of honour, Ive been hissed at, called a dirty hook nosed yid, listened to other fans sing songs linked to nazism, I actually think Arsenal have a large Jewish following and had Jewish directors before Tottenham, but they attracted the more wealthy and different sects, Leeds and Villa also had large percentages some years ago, but Leeds fans were infiltrated by the NF and they dropped off
I remember it well from the 70s .It`s a badge of honour being a yid. I`ve never got angry other clubs fans having a dig at us. We took the piss back at them. It`s all part of the game.
As a Jew, i find it quite cool those clubs want to identify with us. "Yid" is not even a real slur, in Yiddish it's just the word for a Jew, even if it is used as a slur it's quite easy to reclaim. Don't let political correctness ruin having some fun.
@user-lx1lu8qr7e yeah it's complex, it's all about context. If you read literature from before the 19th century, even the word "Jew" is used as a slur, to call someone greedy. I guess "yid" Is somewhat in the middle between "paki" and "scot". The way this works is quite fascinating, really. You can see it especially with afro Americans who use the n-word among themselves, yet will punch in the face any white man who uses it.
@user-lx1lu8qr7eit’s an interesting point but I think Pakistan is the only real outlier, the reason it can be seen as derogatory is because it’s used by people who aren’t Pakistani to describe people who are, I can’t think of another offensive example with any other country apart from maybe Japan but even then it’s rarely used in an offensive way. The English language has a habit of shortening alot of words and when you are being derogatory to another nationality, your likely to show less respect by not using the full word
@user-lx1lu8qr7e you’re right they’re both bad, they’re just never used in the uk (or at least I’ve never seen them used) as our Jewish and Hispanic population is very small in comparison to the US
Even PSV Eindhoven can be considered to have Jewish roots, although surprisingly few fans know this (and probably wouldn't be to pleased if they did being one of Ajax fiercest rivals). The Philips family (the P in PSV) are of Jewish origin and Lion Philips was one of Karl Marx's biggest sponsors.
Great video. The history of Everton is similarly interesting. They're generally viewed (at least locally) as an `Irish Catholic Club'. But their connection is really more to the Methodist Church (especially culturally, as there's a Liverpool & Everton fan group called `Fans supporting Foodbanks', which raises funds for those in need at every Everton home game). For those who don't know, the Labour Movement has its roots in the Methodist Church
I read once that pre-war half of Ajax's fans were middle-class Jews, always got the impression that originally it was a Jewish club. I stand corrected.
Not quite. The club did not have specific a Jewish supporters base, but the neighbourhood Watergraafsmeer, where Ajax stadium De Meer was located, had a lot Jewish inhabitants. Fans of visiting clubs would walk towards the stadium through the 'jewish' neighbourhood. That is how the connection came..
The video follows the story of Simon Kuper's excellent book "Ajax, the Dutch, the War", and the story seems about right. It was the closeness to the Jewish neighborhood that had earned Ajax the label which later was adopted by a sizable section of the fans. Within the club itself, there has never been any significant presence of Jewish players, functionaries or sponsors. There is a very good documentary on the topic called "The Superjoden" by the Israeli film maker Nirit Peled. It shows an amazing scene of the Ajax players celebrating one of their more recent league titles, jumping to the tune of fans chanting "Joden, Joden", while there are at least three Muslim players on the podium and (as far as I can tell by names) not a single Jewish player. Cool.
Pretty obvious when your colours are literally the Frisian flag, including the red 'pompebleden' (waterlilly leafs). Aside from that, in the capital Leeuwarden not proper Frisian is spoken , but the more watered down 'stadsfries' ('city frisian') .
People on here are claiming they didn't know that Spurs had Jewish roots - what on earth did they thnk the hissing noises were all about when the team played at grounds like those of West Ham, Chelsea and Arsenal were all about? I've been following the club or a long time now and thhat sound's always been there at away matches.
Dude, theres allot of implication for what a hissing sound could mean You actually think people would hear hissing noises...and immediately go "why are we immitating the noise gass showers make? Ooooh theyre jews!?"
Dutch Jew here: Currently it's not just Ajax fans that identify themselves as 'joden', but also the Jewish community strongly identifies with Ajax. [Which is funny in my family as my grandfather who grew up in Rotterdam, but lived most of his life in Amstelveen. So he was a single Feyenoord supporter amongst all the Ajax fans.] But to the crux of the issue, if it's antisemitic, I don't think so. Although it often leads to antisemitic chants by the supporter of the opposite team. And regardless it's kind of useless to ban chants, it doesn't really work. The only solution is nuanced historical education and discussions, like this video.😊
ngl but the dutch jewish fans who fly the israeli flag over imho are not real fans, you can't just fly the flag of a nation which has committed so many atrocities against the palestinian ppl doesn't sit right with me.
@ogome2927 Did those "atrocities" randomly happen or were they the inevitable consequence of multiple genocide attempts committed by the arabs? 7 arab countries attacked a tiny group of poorly armed holocaust survivors, and when the arabs lost and the consequences of war happened, the arabs called it an "atrocity". Nowadays known as "nakba". It's really curious how the atrocities committed by the arabs and the consequences are always blamed on the jews. Were the nazi inspired pogroms known as Farhud, which happened in Iraq before israel was created, still to blame on the jews and on the not yet born state of Israel? And when the Arab League then attacks the survivors of those persecutions, who escaped to Israel, since they dared to defend themselves, they are now the target of these slanderous accusations of "atrocities".
As a Jewish football fan, I have good feelings towards these clubs. I understand that some Jewish people wouldn't want to be mascotted as American teams such as the 'Cleveland Indians' or 'Washington Redskins' have done, but I feel that by informing the traditions of these two major clubs, great parts of Jewish culture become more accessible to non-jews everywhere. While they may not be the most accurate representations of Judaism, these club traditions seem to create love and connection with their Jewish communities and should be kept into the next century.
i'm sorry but the use of israeli flags that some of the jewish community of football fans that bring to the ground is never on, just wrong knowing what we know with the palestine situation.
@@ogome2927 Is it fuck, Am Yisrael chai. the Jewish community overwhelmingly supports Israel, you cannot separate the two just so you can stratify Jews in to good and bad.
@@ogome2927 is it also not ok for spurs fans to bring south korean flags to games? Manor Soloman, while he has been injured for much of the season, is one of our players and an Isreali international. in the stadium u will see at least one flag for each of the nationalities in our team, while I would normally agree to try and keep politics out of football that has become increasingly duificult with the general politicization of society, and Isreali flags have been in the stands for at least a decade consistently, they arent being flown in support of the cirrent situation but as reprisentative for Jews in general, just as the isreali flag is often paired with Hebrew on apps and menus.
@@ogome2927So do you also condemn Feyenoord supporters for using Nigeria flags? pretty sure that Nigeria is killing Christians, oh wait... that conflict isn't about Jews, so its not important for you. Let people do what they want, Ajax supporters always had a strong connection with Jews and Israel, they are also friends with a club from Israel (Maccabi Tel Aviv). Nothing wrong with waving a Israeli flag.
im not jewish but i am an early modern historian, and your brief history of judaism in england is spot on! many pages like this get the jewish arrival wrong, dating it to the 19th c as opposed to the mid 17th c. Great to see proper history, in brief, on youtube. Great video re Tottenham / Ajax too !
From a young age in North London have always supported Tottenham , not Jewish , but have no problems being identified as part of the 'Yid Army' when at the games. With little time for racists and those who equate it to Israels conflicts. Embrace and accept the heritage, and learn from the mistakes of Nationalist bigots and Liberal extremists using political controls to alter truth, and fix it to their own p.o.v.
I lived in Tottenham itself during the early 1980s. I attended at least one Spurs match with a schoolfriend who was a hereditary Arsenal supporter, and was spooked out by even visiting White Hart Lane. It was Spurs v. Notts County, Fashanu and Hoddle on the field. I didn't even know it was supposed to be a Jewish club.
Yes, I think the history was 'resurrected', sometime in the 90s. Let's face it, Spurs were a massive club in the 70s and 80s. No one mentioned anything about their Jewish identity until Baddiel and Skinner in the 90s.
@@jodaco3869 Agreed. The Swedish club IFK Gothenburg won the UEFA Cup twice in the 80s, which obviously was a great feat, but no one would ever call them a "massive" club during that period. The same goes for Spurs, they've never been massive and never will be.
Hello Hilbert. I come from Bradford and the neighboring city, Leeds had a Jewish community, probably known best from Marks and Spencer being started there. Bradford had other immigrants and is known for curry. This led to the story that fans would taunt each other with "I'd rather be a something than a something else".
@@justelliot4870 Bradford is a fairly big city at over half a million people, so I would expect no less. It also had an area called Little Germany, which had many Jews among that community according to a Google search. Leeds is bigger at over three quarters of a million people, despite being the younger city. It was also a train stop between Hull and Liverpool for refugees from pogroms on their way to ships to US. Some of them saw the chance to stay and make a living, in a rapidly expanding area, giving it the larger Jewish community.
yh i'm not from bradford but the community that majority of the immigrants from bradford come from are mirpuris who comes azad kashmir located near pakistan, that's acc interesting tho never knew there was beef with that one i assume that beef must escalted rn with a lot of us mirpuris being palestinian supporters and with some of us in that community sadly being quite anti semitic and targeting jews
Utrecht hooligans from the Bunnik-Side started calling Ajax supporters jews. This is when the F-Side took it over as a nickname. The Hava Naquila song became famous in Amsterdam after happy hardcore group "party animals" ( an Amsterdam based gabbers group) made it a hit with a gabber remix, thats when the fans also started singing it. Funny is tho, Ajax hooligans used to have good contacts with Arsenal. Even helping them out in Copenhagen against Galatasary when shit hit the fang.... we don't have a lot with Spurs in all honesty.
I'm not sure if Bunnikside(FC Utrecht) or Vak S(Feyenoord) started calling Ajax a Jewish club. What did happen is that Bunnikside hung anti-Semitic banners on the fences somewhere in 1981 when they had to play against Ajax. The original hafa nagila song was sung by the Ajax supporters (F-side) from the stands around 1983 long before the party animals even existed. Just before the CL semi-final match Spurs-Ajax, the older Ajax hooligans had a friendly conversation with the Spurs hooligans until suddenly out of nowhere a group of younger Ajax hooligans challenged and attacked the Spurs supporters. Then the atmosphere changed big time.
@@theallrounder1578 Never heard of it being sung that far back, but I could be wrong in that case. I did hear about Spurs being attacked, I also know they cleaned house after they did tho, Ajax could not take them on.
@@AFCAUltra The songs of the F-side in the 80s were creative and trendsetting. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for more than 27 years. All stands/sides in the Netherlands sing the same melodies, annoying and not creative at all. I don't know if the current Y*** army is that much stronger than Ajax (the old generation together with the current one), the difference between the two will not be that big compared to 40/45 years ago, but maybe i am wrong. The times that the English hooligans(age 54+) from various clubs were unbeatable seems to be over.
The biggest connection is a player John Kirwan ( an Irish international) who played for Spurs and indeed scored the winning goal in the 1901 FA cup final, he later became one of the founding members and indeed their head coach of Ajax
I'm a 30 year Ajax fan. I don't feel the need to say I'm Jewish or not. I'm actually Catholic. I don't tolerate anti semitism or racism as a fan. Most law abiding Ajax fans are the same. Amsterdam as a city historically has been a large Jewish city. With that said the city in is entirely should be celebrated. We also have large Muslim and Suriname populations... That should be celebrated too. But to be clear in the recent light. There's a difference between being antisemitic and anti Israeli (IDF).
Ironically, I'm a kiwi and EPL team is Arsenal because Bergkamp, but my Champions league team is Ajax(or Barcelona) because Cruijff and total football, and my Eredivisie team is Twente because that's where my opa was from. Weird, I know, but I don't have to be as tribal all the way over here.
As a Dutchie I always been a fan of Ajax Amsterdam. From the early 80's I often went to see Ajax playing at De Meer (Ajax' former ground) and I was a season ticket holder from the first days in the Arena. Me, my father and granddad also went to the Amsterdam 700 Tournements in the early 80's. So on a August day in 1982 we visited the 707 Tournement edition in the Olympic Stadium and there I saw an English football club for the very first time and that was Tottenham. I only knew Hoddle, Archibald, Villa, Roberts, Clemence of the football magazines and Panini stickers I collected in those days. So from that year on I became a Spurs fan as well, although many of my class mates were Liverpool fans in those days. Was it coincidence that I support two 'Jewish' clubs? I don't think so... :) After 37 years I saw these two clubs again in Amsterdam, but now they met in the semi finals of the CL. Ofcourse that evening my heart went out to Ajax... my first love. :) A few days later I was in North London visiting Spurs' last home game against Everton... that was a bit weird, to be honest. I try as often as I can to visit Spurs and I've been there a couple of times throughout the years. Luckily I've been to WHL as well, before it was all gone. I't's always great to be there and I love the club! #COYS #COYA #JODEN #YIDS #020 #N17
From a lifelong Arsenal fan, Spurs fans deserve a ton of respect for taking something derogatory and turning it into an identity. Many clubs associated with that word would try to ban it, but they took lemons and made lemonade 👊
I'm been spurs fan all of my life and I'm English and I support Tottenham Hotspur who where formed by 2 Englishman 1 from a cricket club and from a English priest from a English church in allhallows in Kent so they where formed and borned a English club as for London the Jewish people live in Stamford hill golders green and when the Jewish people came to the UK they first set up in the eastend of London
I don't believe there were Jews in Roman Britain. The first recording of Jews settling in Britain were those who came over with William the Conqueror in 1066. There may have been Jewish merchants who may have visited Roman Britain from time-to-time but I think that's your lot.
Yeah I’ve read there’s no trace of any Jews or Synagogues in England/Britain before 1066. Then William the conqueror invited French speaking Jews to England because they were ‘good for business’.
You mean Jewish people are more legitimatly English that the so called Anglo-Saxons racists are obsessed with? (You know the rulers of England that gave way to their own dark ages?) Oh god that's a good laugh I needed that.
Royal Antwerp FC fans in Belgium also are referred to as "the Jews" sometimes, mostly by the fans supporting K Beerschot VA who refer to themselves as the rats.
As far as I'm aware some Antwerpen lads were very close with Feyenoord's firm back in the day and so always objected to the Joden label. I believe the relationship between the two groups has really soured in the last 10-15 years though.
Gentile Spurs fan here. I saw a webcast from a jewish Spurs fan who said the club, from a fairly recent survey, had received a 2/3 positive response from jewish Spurs fans on the use of the word yiddo.
The antisemitic thing really took off during the late 70's at Tottenham during the days of the National Front, the worst offenders were Chelsea, West Ham and Leeds. Spurs supporters took on the Y-word defence as an act of defiance, and perhaps a nod to the nearby suburb of Stamford Hill which has a large population of Orthodox Jews.
Much love for Ajax and Eddy Hamel! Rest In Peace. An American Jew from New York who played for the Ajax first team and wound up being the club's only victim in the Holocaust, perishing in Auschwitz.
You should look into the History of Bayern Munich as well. It has a history of Jewish leadership and passive civil resistance against the Nazi Regime, often being labeled as the "Judenklub" by the Nazis. People often just point and laugh at their WW2 Era Club logo and make the obvious "Don't ask what X was doing between 1933-45" jokes about it, but it often overshadows Bayerns distinctly anti-Nazi history.
Indeed I am a Spurs supporter who is descended from one of the oldest Jewish families allowed to settle by Oliver Cromwell. My earliest known ancestor is Solomon, a Goldsmith in the City of London in 1680. Please fact check me, but I believe one of the major reasons Jews were Spurs supporters was convenience. After escaping the Russian pogroms many settled in the East End around Spitalfields. After attending the Synagogue on Saturdays they could get to White Hart Lanes, station & ground from Liverpool Street in time for the 3 pm kick off.West Ham & Arsenal did not have the train infrastructure. The Central Line & Piccadilly tube stations were not to be built for 20-30 years.
I’ve supported Spurs since 1958 in those days Jewish supporters were really integrated with non Jewish supporters. It wasn’t really until the 1990’s - 2000’s that the term ‘yids’ as a chant was being used regularly. It seems a term of endearment rather than insulting. What is absolutely disgraceful is the chanting by away fans especially Chelsea ( who were Jewish owned - Amabramovich) of hissing noises.
Very much still is. An official Jewish supporters group called MeshuggenOs was launched a few months ago. I'm on the committee of the Orient LGBTQ+ supporters group, and of the 8 committee members three are Jewish.
@@luxford60 I thought it was still true of the O's, but I didn't want to jinx it, if you know what I mean. BTW, I'm not LGBTQ+ myself (ok, maybe have a touch of D!), but I wonder who are the most accepting of LGBTQ+ fans?
7:26 Chelsea a North London club ??? Don't think so mate !!! One football thing that Arsenal and Spurs fans would agree on. Otherwise an interesting piece, probably a subject a lot of football channels wouldn't have covered
@@ThePetekA Terminally online people, like myself, sometimes refer to good or cooler things as "based", althought I would not advise using it that much, since us rather childish.
Perhaps many people forgot, but in the 1920s&30s, since there were significant Jewish communities in almost every major European city, each such city had at least 1 "Jewish" club & 1 "non-Jewish" club, lhe latter usually with strong AntiSemitic attitude In Rome: FC Roma (Jewish) vs Lazio (non-Jewish) Budapest: MTK (J) vs Perencvaros Vienna: Austria Wien (J) vs Rapid Munich: Bayern (J) vs 1860 and of course, Tottenham vs Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham etc. All that ended after the mass murder of Jews during the Holocaust and the dissappearence of whole communities, but much of those traditions still exist today BTW, PSG was regarded as the "Jewish" team of Paris up until the 1990s lol
as an american jew i had no natural team to back, i picked leicester because i started watching that season. but spurs have always been my second team. ajax is def my first team that isn’t in the epl. and i find the nicknames ‘yid’ and ‘superjew’ quite flattering honestly. i’ve been called a yid before but it’s nice to see it being said proudly in defense of jews
I have been a Spurs fan since the early fifties and did not hear Yid chants from our fans until the early 80's.In fact, we were known as an Irish club in the fifties(Danny Blanchflower and McNamara's band ).I do not know your source of information but suggest you do more research.
As a Jewish Spurs fan, I've never once had an issue with any of the chants by our non Jewish fans that pertain to my ethnicity or religion (both of which goes hand in hand for us). I've always seen it as reclaiming a slur that was used and still used against us, but in a positive way which is illustrated so well in this video.
I would throw Chelsea into this aswell under Roman the majority of their board was jewish with the most jewish players and manager under a European club in this century
Maybe I am ignorant of the suffering of diaspora Jews and therefore thier sensitivity to words but I think this is harmless fun and banter in football..Btw just before the Corona I was in Netherlands and Western Europe in after the Army,and in Jewish area in Amsterdam I remember my friends told us Ajax called themselves "SuperJews" and sang Hava Nagila,that was hilarious lol and I petition for that name aswell,we should 100% adopted it to Hapoel BeerSheva.
I support Tottenham and have always believed that as time has gone on, Jewish related chants have gone onto mean more about the club than Judaism. The word has a different meaning to a lot of Tottenham supporters now.
On 23rd October Spurs played Fulham. Prior to the match there was a minute’s silence for the victims of October 7th. Scrupulously observed, even by the Fulham fans. At the end of the silence there were cries of “ Long live Israel “ from all sides of the stadium. I wear a Star of David at every match I attend. So do many others. The connection between Spurs fans and Jewish people is still strong with us!
Funnily enough Melbourne has two sports teams historically called Ajax (Green Gully SC and AJAX FC), but Green Gully are Maltese (and dropped the Ajax when soccer dropped ethnic names in the 1990s), and AJAX are Jewish
I live across the road from green gully and didn't know they were called Ajax back in the day. My wife is maltese, her family used to be involved with st george fc. Thank you for sharing the info.
There a lot of match going fan are Jewish way more than 5% because the Tottenham fans who aren’t Jewish moved more to the outside of London but still around 20% if are match going fans are Jewish
As a spurs fan I have used "yid" in chants in the past, never in a negative way obviously, but it's not something I am comfortable doing anymore. Having said that, although anecdotal evidence I know a handful of jewish spurs fans and all of them aren't just fine with the word being used, but actually really like that aspect of the clubs history, makes them feel included, like they're every bit as part of the club as any other supporter. Obviously my 3 jewish mates isn't exactly a wide ranging focus group, but it does make me wonder how much of the pushback against using the word comes from people who aren't jewish or involved in the club themselves, being offended on the behalf of others.
Yeah, most that do that won't be doing it because any sort of longstanding connection between the various communities that follow Rangers and Judaism. It'll literally be because there's a section of the Celtic support that's pro-Palestine
@@blah......4970 Isn't there still a protestant-catholic rivalry between Rangers and Celtic? Dutch protestants traditionally tend to a strong connection with the Old Testament's chosen people. Catholics have a tainted history with jews. It would have very much surprised me if it had been the other way around.
Eintracht Frankfurt is another 'Judenklub'. After reading a brilliant piece about super-fan and Holocaust survivor Sonny Sonnenberg z"l, I found a vintage Eintracht shirt that as a Jewish mom, I'm proud to wear.
As a Leyton Orient supporter who grew up in Londons eastend. They too have a jewish fan base. Orient regard Spurs as their big brother and in the past a feeder club. Harry Kane was a loanee
The question needs to be why don’t more of the different sections of society have their own clubs? Local clubs always come from specific community groups, so why hadn’t this happened?
Twente suporters, are mostly revert to as Boeren (Farmers) which the also took as there nickname, I wonder how many footballers there are in the eredivisie or the premier legue
My father played for Hakoach Graz before WW2 ( a refugee fromNazi Austria) supported the Arsenal from during the 1930s and passed the baton to me. I witnessed the Winning game at The Lane in 71 and remember having a large number of Jewish friends who also supported the Arsenal. I’m sure at that time there were equal amounts of Jewish supporters at Spurs and even at Chelsea. Unfortunately today’s reality is quite disturbing as these clubs are globalizing and have numerous Muslim supporters that blatantly disrespect us and hurl hate towards us on social media.
No sense to link football club associations with religion roots. The affiliation is more linked with the societal context of resident populations. Fans comes from different community , and logical to have a picture of these community in this public place. This link make sense only when these clubs was founded , drived , and referenced with a specified culture.
Ajax's stadium was located in an old jewish neighborhood, after the world wars people (for some reason) still discriminated against the jewish community, Ajax ain't a Jewish club, they just couldn't stand the racism that was happening, so Ajax accepted the Jewish community to the club which lead to other clubs calling Ajax a "jewish club" and we just ran with it and turned it into something positive. Vinden joden voetbal fijn? ALS ZE MAAR VOOR AJAX ZIJN! (Do jews like football?, I DONT CARE AS LONG AS THEY SUPPORT AJAX!) I repeat we are not a jewish club, but we accept everyone. As long as they suppport AJAX
I don't understand your story about Ajax. First of all Transvaal was Protestant. Second, you did not get to the Meer through Transvaal but through Middenmeer, or better, the Watergraafsmeer. Thát is where most of the Jews lived before the war. Ajax itself has no Jewish background.
I grew up always up seeing both Ajax & Spurs as predominately Jewish club in much the same way Rangers Glentoran , Linfield , and Crusaders are predominantly Protestant clubs as are Hearts & many others clubs in Nothern Ireland & Celtic, Hibernian, Dundee United , Cliftonville are predominantly Roman Catholic clubs. I really like Ajax very much, so they are my favourites mainland European club they have been as far back as 1995 I just love Dutch Voetbal I am very passionate about it. As a Scottish Chelsea fan since 1996, I dont like Spurs very much at all, but the same can besead about the other London clubs it's not about Spurs being Jewish or not, that is just something to antagonise Spurs fans about jokingly. I terms of Israelis & Palestinians let them get on with it we the British should take nothing what so ever do do with it. It is not our conflict to get involved with The U.K. is not predominately & I say predominantly Jewish country, so we should stay out of things that do not concern the vast majority of our population religiously or politically we have bigger problems to deal with much closer to home in my personal view. Politics , religion & football should never mix but living in the West of Scotland, I can tell you they always will in Europe anyway.
As a spurs fan the issue is quite complex for us as using the term yid can lead to more antisemitic chants, making our usage useless. However I remember us playing against teams who would sing racist chants and hearing us chant back yids to silence them was amazing
For me it comes down to a mixture of intention and the perspectives of real Jews. When rival fans turn 'who doesn't jump is no Jew' into 'who doesn't jump is a Jew'. Here you don't think about an actual Jew. Here it is the synonym for an Ajax fan. So there is no harm meant. But if Jews feel offended by this. You should respect their feelings and not sing it. There are plenty of other ways to banter.
I'm seeing more and more Tottenham and Ajax fans becoming increasingly pro Israel due to the level of antisemitism eve seen on the streets of our capitals, it's worth noting an Ajax ultras group attacked a pro Hamas demonstration a few days ago. I'm of jewish decent and i think both clubs are class mind.
I'm wondering whether the context of using the term 'yids' - approved or non-approved - has a parallel with the African-Caribbean community, where they can use the n word, but not others?
On Merseyside I know 3 local Jews who like a bit of football and they all support Everton. Never thought to ask if the toffees are the local Jewish club. Must get round to it sometime
The same goes to the Club Atlético Atlanta from Buenos Aires, located in the neighbourhood Villa Crespo, which has a strong jewish presence. Atlanta´s rival, Chacarita, has chants about Atlanta with antisemitic connotations
They are now Jewish, but they were imposed by other fans as a mockery. Overtimes, though, they came to accept it and adapt it. Interestingly, these peoples helped Jews during WWII further cemented their reputation.
I got a chuckle when in the US the movement to remove American Indian imagery from pro sports teams there would be comments like "can you imagine the outrage if a team named itself "the New York Jews", as if something like this never happened.
@@spyrytaraxalass I think the Indian stuff should go since it's not supported by Indian nation except for the Seminoles in Florida, but not all the representational tie ins were similar to the caricatured Chief Wahoo for the former Cleveland Indians.
You did miss out a fair bit of background, West Ham has Jewish routes also which you failed to mention. Tottenham have had Jewish chairman all the way back to the 1980s.
Spurs fans who chant 'Yido, or Yid Army' etc are similar to black people using the N word. (It was used against, them, so they threw it back at the aggitators and made it their own.)
Ajax aren't any more Jewish than any other Dutch club. In fact, if there would be a Durch professional football club who could "claim" Jewish heritage it might be... PSV Eindhoven. They were once founded by the Philips concern and the Philips family is of Jewish descent as Lion Philips, the grandfather of both Gerard and Anton Philips was Jewish. Nevertheless, I strongly feel all clubs should ban inappropiate "Jewishness" alltogether. Ajax fans should refrain from calling themselves "Superjews"and using Jewish symbols and other teams should refrain from calling them Jews and singing antisemetic songs. Create a new nickname, a more common one.
The club didn't go after fans for saying Yids. It was the police and the courts that did. They banned the fans and it got over turn on appeal. The club always stood by fans regarding this situation.
I think one or two MPs, even PM David Cameron had to give us the benefit of their wisdom on the subject.
@jurgencuypers8350 It wasn't the club. It was the FA and the CPS. The fans refused and the club stood by them.
The club began a fan consultation over the use of the term "Yid" in 2019. This was interrupted due to Covid but eventually they reached a wishy-washy conclusion as follows:
As a Club, we always strive to create a welcoming environment that embraces all our fans so that every one of our supporters can feel included in the matchday experience.
It is clear the use of this term does not always make this possible, regardless of context and intention, and that there is a growing desire and acknowledgment from supporters that the Y-word should be used less or stopped being used altogether.
We recognise how these members of our fanbase feel and we also believe it is time to move on from associating this term with our Club.
The adoption of the Y-word by our supporters from the late 1970's was a positive response to the lack of action taken by others around this issue. An increasing number of our fans now wish to see positive change again with the reduction of its use, something we welcome and shall look to support.
We acknowledge that any reassessment of the use of this term needs to be a collaborative effort between the Club and its fans. We shall be working to further outline the historical context of the term, to explain the offence it can cause and to embrace the times in which we now live to show why it can be considered inappropriate regardless of context.
I received the letter from the club, it was in reference to a complaint from a legal body, the Black Solicitors Network. So it was organised external activism and THFC responded.
This was driven by David Lammy the local Marxist MP and David Baddiel a Jewish Chelsea supporter.
Please Sir, I beg of you, make more football history videos, these are great!
Better not let the historical Bayern Munich fans see this
I think you mean 1860 Munich. Bayern was the "Judenklub" of Munich, due to their president and coach before 1933 being Jewish.
And most of the players @@jbc17c
Bayern is/ was a Jewish clubs in the 30’s and 40’s
In the late 30's Bayern was still referred by ordinary Germans as "the Jew club"!
Wrong. Bayern had a jewish president that was forced to resign by the nazis. And the emblem change was also forced... Very superficial take on a complicated and sad history
I’m an Australian Jew who went to a spurs game with a non Jewish friend at white hart lane in the 90s .I was so surprised at the crown yelling out Yido Yido but as a Jew I loved it .I think they had Rony Rosental playing then .Now I love them more as they have a great Aussie coach .
You are proper Yido just like me! COYS!
Gentiles can read we know very well what you believe in
Bayern Munich are also traditionally seen as a Jewish Club.
😶
The National Socialists (and others) referred to Bayern as the Judenklub I think primarily because the club was run by Jewish president Kurt Landauer from 1913 until 1951. He was briefly sent to a concentration camp but amazingly released after a few months after money changed hands. Landauer was instrumental in restarting the Bundesliga after the war.
Mainly because of Kurt Landauer and the fact that 1860 were supported and sponsored by the Nazis.
So is Mainz, right?
@@Drtoe2ner you may say play after war. Bundesliga did not exist until the 63/64 season
Being a fan of Hannover 96, I can tell you that we also have a large Jewish community. In fact, the city of Hannover is heavily influenced by people with Jewish descent. Our active fan scene stands with Israel and the jewish people. You can also find many stickers with the star of David all over the city.
Nothing to be proud of, keep licking their ass but hopefully we never get such an influence in Serie A.
I’m dying, imagine being a neutral Jewish dude who just went to a football match not knowing much and looking over at the ultra section of Spurs or Ajax and they like:
th-cam.com/video/j5Lo6X-PFDY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=IaCLKBj1eza5hYuw
I died after seeing the video lmao...
the Ajax have songs about the jews as if they are supermens, if I would be a jew I would be proud of it
@@JR-mh8vn you could say *ubermenschen*
Amazing comment😂😂😂😂
"spurs ultras"
When we started chanting, "we are Yids, we are Yids", back in the 70's it was take ownership of the insult and to turn it into a badge of honour, Ive been hissed at, called a dirty hook nosed yid, listened to other fans sing songs linked to nazism, I actually think Arsenal have a large Jewish following and had Jewish directors before Tottenham, but they attracted the more wealthy and different sects, Leeds and Villa also had large percentages some years ago, but Leeds fans were infiltrated by the NF and they dropped off
Reminds me of gay people reclaiming the British cigarette and Qu-een slurs.
I remember it well from the 70s .It`s a badge of honour being a yid. I`ve never got angry other clubs fans having a dig at us. We took the piss back at them. It`s all part of the game.
As a Jew, i find it quite cool those clubs want to identify with us. "Yid" is not even a real slur, in Yiddish it's just the word for a Jew, even if it is used as a slur it's quite easy to reclaim. Don't let political correctness ruin having some fun.
@user-lx1lu8qr7e yeah it's complex, it's all about context. If you read literature from before the 19th century, even the word "Jew" is used as a slur, to call someone greedy. I guess "yid" Is somewhat in the middle between "paki" and "scot". The way this works is quite fascinating, really. You can see it especially with afro Americans who use the n-word among themselves, yet will punch in the face any white man who uses it.
@user-lx1lu8qr7eit’s an interesting point but I think Pakistan is the only real outlier, the reason it can be seen as derogatory is because it’s used by people who aren’t Pakistani to describe people who are, I can’t think of another offensive example with any other country apart from maybe Japan but even then it’s rarely used in an offensive way. The English language has a habit of shortening alot of words and when you are being derogatory to another nationality, your likely to show less respect by not using the full word
@user-lx1lu8qr7e you’re right they’re both bad, they’re just never used in the uk (or at least I’ve never seen them used) as our Jewish and Hispanic population is very small in comparison to the US
@@ToTheMaxGaming1jap is used in an offensive way
The real language of the Jews. Because they're from central and eastern Europe . Not the Levant
Even PSV Eindhoven can be considered to have Jewish roots, although surprisingly few fans know this (and probably wouldn't be to pleased if they did being one of Ajax fiercest rivals). The Philips family (the P in PSV) are of Jewish origin and Lion Philips was one of Karl Marx's biggest sponsors.
Great video. The history of Everton is similarly interesting. They're generally viewed (at least locally) as an `Irish Catholic Club'. But their connection is really more to the Methodist Church (especially culturally, as there's a Liverpool & Everton fan group called `Fans supporting Foodbanks', which raises funds for those in need at every Everton home game). For those who don't know, the Labour Movement has its roots in the Methodist Church
I read once that pre-war half of Ajax's fans were middle-class Jews, always got the impression that originally it was a Jewish club. I stand corrected.
Not quite. The club did not have specific a Jewish supporters base, but the neighbourhood Watergraafsmeer, where Ajax stadium De Meer was located, had a lot Jewish inhabitants. Fans of visiting clubs would walk towards the stadium through the 'jewish' neighbourhood. That is how the connection came..
Same pretty much for Spurs and having owners over the years with names like Levy, Lewis, Sugar, Scholar, Silver only reinforced the impression.
The video follows the story of Simon Kuper's excellent book "Ajax, the Dutch, the War", and the story seems about right. It was the closeness to the Jewish neighborhood that had earned Ajax the label which later was adopted by a sizable section of the fans. Within the club itself, there has never been any significant presence of Jewish players, functionaries or sponsors. There is a very good documentary on the topic called "The Superjoden" by the Israeli film maker Nirit Peled. It shows an amazing scene of the Ajax players celebrating one of their more recent league titles, jumping to the tune of fans chanting "Joden, Joden", while there are at least three Muslim players on the podium and (as far as I can tell by names) not a single Jewish player. Cool.
And why is SC Heerenveen more Frisian than Cambuur?
Because they stole the identity and thats why cambuur is anti frysk
Well, big city vs smaller city(In Heereveens case a town). The big city will always have less feeling with the regional identity.
Because leeuwarden, being the capitol, is slightly more cosmopolitan then the rest of friesland
Because leeuwarden, being the capitol, is slightly more cosmopolitan then the rest of friesland
Pretty obvious when your colours are literally the Frisian flag, including the red 'pompebleden' (waterlilly leafs). Aside from that, in the capital Leeuwarden not proper Frisian is spoken , but the more watered down 'stadsfries' ('city frisian') .
People on here are claiming they didn't know that Spurs had Jewish roots - what on earth did they thnk the hissing noises were all about when the team played at grounds like those of West Ham, Chelsea and Arsenal were all about? I've been following the club or a long time now and thhat sound's always been there at away matches.
Dude, theres allot of implication for what a hissing sound could mean
You actually think people would hear hissing noises...and immediately go "why are we immitating the noise gass showers make? Ooooh theyre jews!?"
People perceive that but that doesn't mean it's true.
@@sie4431Oh come on now. When you make that noise towards a Jewish person, there's only one reason why.
Not true.
Never heard a hissing sound lmao. Stop making stuff up
Dutch Jew here:
Currently it's not just Ajax fans that identify themselves as 'joden', but also the Jewish community strongly identifies with Ajax.
[Which is funny in my family as my grandfather who grew up in Rotterdam, but lived most of his life in Amstelveen. So he was a single Feyenoord supporter amongst all the Ajax fans.]
But to the crux of the issue, if it's antisemitic, I don't think so. Although it often leads to antisemitic chants by the supporter of the opposite team. And regardless it's kind of useless to ban chants, it doesn't really work.
The only solution is nuanced historical education and discussions, like this video.😊
ngl but the dutch jewish fans who fly the israeli flag over imho are not real fans, you can't just fly the flag of a nation which has committed so many atrocities against the palestinian ppl doesn't sit right with me.
I like your grandfather (I’m
A Feyenoord supporter)
@ogome2927
Did those "atrocities" randomly happen or were they the inevitable consequence of multiple genocide attempts committed by the arabs?
7 arab countries attacked a tiny group of poorly armed holocaust survivors, and when the arabs lost and the consequences of war happened, the arabs called it an "atrocity". Nowadays known as "nakba".
It's really curious how the atrocities committed by the arabs and the consequences are always blamed on the jews. Were the nazi inspired pogroms known as Farhud, which happened in Iraq before israel was created, still to blame on the jews and on the not yet born state of Israel?
And when the Arab League then attacks the survivors of those persecutions, who escaped to Israel, since they dared to defend themselves, they are now the target of these slanderous accusations of "atrocities".
I liked Ajax but when I discover they are jewish club now I hate them. Cheers
@@ogome2927that’s a fair point
As a Jewish football fan, I have good feelings towards these clubs. I understand that some Jewish people wouldn't want to be mascotted as American teams such as the 'Cleveland Indians' or 'Washington Redskins' have done, but I feel that by informing the traditions of these two major clubs, great parts of Jewish culture become more accessible to non-jews everywhere. While they may not be the most accurate representations of Judaism, these club traditions seem to create love and connection with their Jewish communities and should be kept into the next century.
i'm sorry but the use of israeli flags that some of the jewish community of football fans that bring to the ground is never on, just wrong knowing what we know with the palestine situation.
@@ogome2927 Is it fuck, Am Yisrael chai. the Jewish community overwhelmingly supports Israel, you cannot separate the two just so you can stratify Jews in to good and bad.
@@ogome2927 is it also not ok for spurs fans to bring south korean flags to games? Manor Soloman, while he has been injured for much of the season, is one of our players and an Isreali international. in the stadium u will see at least one flag for each of the nationalities in our team, while I would normally agree to try and keep politics out of football that has become increasingly duificult with the general politicization of society, and Isreali flags have been in the stands for at least a decade consistently, they arent being flown in support of the cirrent situation but as reprisentative for Jews in general, just as the isreali flag is often paired with Hebrew on apps and menus.
@@ogome2927So do you also condemn Feyenoord supporters for using Nigeria flags? pretty sure that Nigeria is killing Christians, oh wait... that conflict isn't about Jews, so its not important for you.
Let people do what they want, Ajax supporters always had a strong connection with Jews and Israel, they are also friends with a club from Israel (Maccabi Tel Aviv). Nothing wrong with waving a Israeli flag.
@@hakkepak exactly
im not jewish but i am an early modern historian, and your brief history of judaism in england is spot on! many pages like this get the jewish arrival wrong, dating it to the 19th c as opposed to the mid 17th c. Great to see proper history, in brief, on youtube. Great video re Tottenham / Ajax too !
From a young age in North London have always supported Tottenham , not Jewish , but have no problems being identified as part of the 'Yid Army' when at the games. With little time for racists and those who equate it to Israels conflicts. Embrace and accept the heritage, and learn from the mistakes of Nationalist bigots and Liberal extremists using political controls to alter truth, and fix it to their own p.o.v.
I lived in Tottenham itself during the early 1980s. I attended at least one Spurs match with a schoolfriend who was a hereditary Arsenal supporter, and was spooked out by even visiting White Hart Lane. It was Spurs v. Notts County, Fashanu and Hoddle on the field.
I didn't even know it was supposed to be a Jewish club.
Yes, I think the history was 'resurrected', sometime in the 90s. Let's face it, Spurs were a massive club in the 70s and 80s. No one mentioned anything about their Jewish identity until Baddiel and Skinner in the 90s.
@@roginkthey really weren’t that huge in the 70s and 80s
3 UEFA cup finals winning 2. 3 FA cup finals winning 2. 3 league cup finals winning 2. During the 70s and 80s shows we were a big enough team.
@@chuckyx934 That really doesn’t make you ‘massive’
@@jodaco3869 Agreed. The Swedish club IFK Gothenburg won the UEFA Cup twice in the 80s, which obviously was a great feat, but no one would ever call them a "massive" club during that period. The same goes for Spurs, they've never been massive and never will be.
Hello Hilbert. I come from Bradford and the neighboring city, Leeds had a Jewish community, probably known best from Marks and Spencer being started there. Bradford had other immigrants and is known for curry. This led to the story that fans would taunt each other with "I'd rather be a something than a something else".
Bradford used to have a very large jewish community. There's still a synagogue there I think
@@justelliot4870 Bradford is a fairly big city at over half a million people, so I would expect no less. It also had an area called Little Germany, which had many Jews among that community according to a Google search.
Leeds is bigger at over three quarters of a million people, despite being the younger city. It was also a train stop between Hull and Liverpool for refugees from pogroms on their way to ships to US. Some of them saw the chance to stay and make a living, in a rapidly expanding area, giving it the larger Jewish community.
Manny Cousins, Lesley Silver, we’re both great Leeds United chairman and Jewish 💙🤍💛
yh i'm not from bradford but the community that majority of the immigrants from bradford come from are mirpuris who comes azad kashmir located near pakistan, that's acc interesting tho never knew there was beef with that one i assume that beef must escalted rn with a lot of us mirpuris being palestinian supporters and with some of us in that community sadly being quite anti semitic and targeting jews
@@ogome2927 It was not between the actual communities. It was football fans shouting names at each other, allegedly.
Love the football history lesson...and the tie-in to the contextual historical events. Keep them coming!
Utrecht hooligans from the Bunnik-Side started calling Ajax supporters jews. This is when the F-Side took it over as a nickname.
The Hava Naquila song became famous in Amsterdam after happy hardcore group "party animals" ( an Amsterdam based gabbers group) made it a hit with a gabber remix, thats when the fans also started singing it.
Funny is tho, Ajax hooligans used to have good contacts with Arsenal. Even helping them out in Copenhagen against Galatasary when shit hit the fang.... we don't have a lot with Spurs in all honesty.
Gabber, Dennis Bergkamp... a people of culture
I'm not sure if Bunnikside(FC Utrecht) or Vak S(Feyenoord) started calling Ajax a Jewish club. What did happen is that Bunnikside hung anti-Semitic banners on the fences somewhere in 1981 when they had to play against Ajax.
The original hafa nagila song was sung by the Ajax supporters (F-side) from the stands around 1983 long before the party animals even existed.
Just before the CL semi-final match Spurs-Ajax, the older Ajax hooligans had a friendly conversation with the Spurs hooligans until suddenly out of nowhere a group of younger Ajax hooligans challenged and attacked the Spurs supporters. Then the atmosphere changed big time.
@@theallrounder1578 Never heard of it being sung that far back, but I could be wrong in that case. I did hear about Spurs being attacked, I also know they cleaned house after they did tho, Ajax could not take them on.
@@AFCAUltra The songs of the F-side in the 80s were creative and trendsetting. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for more than 27 years. All stands/sides in the Netherlands sing the same melodies, annoying and not creative at all.
I don't know if the current Y*** army is that much stronger than Ajax (the old generation together with the current one), the difference between the two will not be that big compared to 40/45 years ago, but maybe i am wrong.
The times that the English hooligans(age 54+) from various clubs were unbeatable seems to be over.
The biggest connection is a player John Kirwan ( an Irish international) who played for Spurs and indeed scored the winning goal in the 1901 FA cup final, he later became one of the founding members and indeed their head coach of Ajax
I'm a 30 year Ajax fan. I don't feel the need to say I'm Jewish or not. I'm actually Catholic. I don't tolerate anti semitism or racism as a fan. Most law abiding Ajax fans are the same. Amsterdam as a city historically has been a large Jewish city. With that said the city in is entirely should be celebrated. We also have large Muslim and Suriname populations... That should be celebrated too. But to be clear in the recent light. There's a difference between being antisemitic and anti Israeli (IDF).
None of it should be ‘celebrated’ look at the fucking state of Amsterdam, it’s the reason people want little mustached man back
Vergelijk je nu een religie (moslim) met een nationaliteit (Suriname) 😂
Ironically, I'm a kiwi and EPL team is Arsenal because Bergkamp, but my Champions league team is Ajax(or Barcelona) because Cruijff and total football, and my Eredivisie team is Twente because that's where my opa was from. Weird, I know, but I don't have to be as tribal all the way over here.
Inb4 Spuds come along to say "because Arsenal are shit in the Champions league".
@@AholeAtheist Good to see such self-awareness!😉
As a Dutchie I always been a fan of Ajax Amsterdam. From the early 80's I often went to see Ajax playing at De Meer (Ajax' former ground) and I was a season ticket holder from the first days in the Arena. Me, my father and granddad also went to the Amsterdam 700 Tournements in the early 80's. So on a August day in 1982 we visited the 707 Tournement edition in the Olympic Stadium and there I saw an English football club for the very first time and that was Tottenham. I only knew Hoddle, Archibald, Villa, Roberts, Clemence of the football magazines and Panini stickers I collected in those days. So from that year on I became a Spurs fan as well, although many of my class mates were Liverpool fans in those days. Was it coincidence that I support two 'Jewish' clubs? I don't think so... :) After 37 years I saw these two clubs again in Amsterdam, but now they met in the semi finals of the CL. Ofcourse that evening my heart went out to Ajax... my first love. :) A few days later I was in North London visiting Spurs' last home game against Everton... that was a bit weird, to be honest. I try as often as I can to visit Spurs and I've been there a couple of times throughout the years. Luckily I've been to WHL as well, before it was all gone. I't's always great to be there and I love the club! #COYS #COYA #JODEN #YIDS #020 #N17
As a football fan, I did not expect History with Herbert to make this type of video
From a lifelong Arsenal fan, Spurs fans deserve a ton of respect for taking something derogatory and turning it into an identity. Many clubs associated with that word would try to ban it, but they took lemons and made lemonade 👊
I'm been spurs fan all of my life and I'm English and I support Tottenham Hotspur who where formed by 2 Englishman 1 from a cricket club and from a English priest from a English church in allhallows in Kent so they where formed and borned a English club as for London the Jewish people live in Stamford hill golders green and when the Jewish people came to the UK they first set up in the eastend of London
I don't believe there were Jews in Roman Britain. The first recording of Jews settling in Britain were those who came over with William the Conqueror in 1066. There may have been Jewish merchants who may have visited Roman Britain from time-to-time but I think that's your lot.
Yeah I’ve read there’s no trace of any Jews or Synagogues in England/Britain before 1066.
Then William the conqueror invited French speaking Jews to England because they were ‘good for business’.
You mean Jewish people are more legitimatly English that the so called Anglo-Saxons racists are obsessed with? (You know the rulers of England that gave way to their own dark ages?) Oh god that's a good laugh I needed that.
Royal Antwerp FC fans in Belgium also are referred to as "the Jews" sometimes, mostly by the fans supporting K Beerschot VA who refer to themselves as the rats.
As far as I'm aware some Antwerpen lads were very close with Feyenoord's firm back in the day and so always objected to the Joden label. I believe the relationship between the two groups has really soured in the last 10-15 years though.
Gentile Spurs fan here. I saw a webcast from a jewish Spurs fan who said the club, from a fairly recent survey, had received a 2/3 positive response from jewish Spurs fans on the use of the word yiddo.
I'm non-Jewish, but I'll always look at Ajax as our Dutch brothers. 🤝🏼
your older more successful brothers :-P
like fishing
@@imascrew6218 Wouldn't be hard
@@imascrew6218It's not Tottenham's fault their owner is allergic to silverware
We as Ajax see Spurs also as our brothers, but why did Spurs sign Lucas Moura? 🤣🤣
The antisemitic thing really took off during the late 70's at Tottenham during the days of the National Front, the worst offenders were Chelsea, West Ham and Leeds. Spurs supporters took on the Y-word defence as an act of defiance, and perhaps a nod to the nearby suburb of Stamford Hill which has a large population of Orthodox Jews.
Much love for Ajax and Eddy Hamel! Rest In Peace.
An American Jew from New York who played for the Ajax first team and wound up being the club's only victim in the Holocaust, perishing in Auschwitz.
You should look into the History of Bayern Munich as well. It has a history of Jewish leadership and passive civil resistance against the Nazi Regime, often being labeled as the "Judenklub" by the Nazis. People often just point and laugh at their WW2 Era Club logo and make the obvious "Don't ask what X was doing between 1933-45" jokes about it, but it often overshadows Bayerns distinctly anti-Nazi history.
Indeed I am a Spurs supporter who is descended from one of the oldest Jewish families allowed to settle by Oliver Cromwell. My earliest known ancestor is Solomon, a Goldsmith in the City of London in 1680. Please fact check me, but I believe one of the major reasons Jews were Spurs supporters was convenience. After escaping the Russian pogroms many settled in the East End around Spitalfields. After attending the Synagogue on Saturdays they could get to White Hart Lanes, station & ground from Liverpool Street in time for the 3 pm kick off.West Ham & Arsenal did not have the train infrastructure. The Central Line & Piccadilly tube stations were not to be built for 20-30 years.
Ajax is clearly not Jewish: I've never seen someone burn so much money in one summer!
Great video. Leyton Orient also have big Jewish support. My uncle is a season ticket holder.
I’ve supported Spurs since 1958 in those days Jewish supporters were really integrated with non Jewish supporters. It wasn’t really until the 1990’s - 2000’s that the term ‘yids’ as a chant was being used regularly. It seems a term of endearment rather than insulting. What is absolutely disgraceful is the chanting by away fans especially Chelsea ( who were Jewish owned - Amabramovich) of hissing noises.
There was a subset of North London Jewish fans that were Leyton Orient fans rather than Spurs.
Very much still is. An official Jewish supporters group called MeshuggenOs was launched a few months ago.
I'm on the committee of the Orient LGBTQ+ supporters group, and of the 8 committee members three are Jewish.
Why not start a Leyton Orient Jewish LGBTQ plus committee. @@luxford60
@@luxford60 I thought it was still true of the O's, but I didn't want to jinx it, if you know what I mean. BTW, I'm not LGBTQ+ myself (ok, maybe have a touch of D!), but I wonder who are the most accepting of LGBTQ+ fans?
My uncle is Jewish & a Leyton Orient supporter.
As a Jew I love this, dealing with antisemitic language and complicated racial dynamics is a core part of the Jewish experience
talmud
All you need to do is stop being offended and you'll be free from that "experience" if you want to.
Back here in the Netherlands they are being searched up and harrased in real time.@@martinseptimryden7272
109
@@martinseptimryden7272 that's not a great argument.
7:26 Chelsea a North London club ??? Don't think so mate !!! One football thing that Arsenal and Spurs fans would agree on. Otherwise an interesting piece, probably a subject a lot of football channels wouldn't have covered
North London as in the right side of the Thames LOL.
Excellent pronunciation of various Dutch words!
Is Hilbert dutch? The pronunciation is excellent (to my untrained ear)
Ja
Yes
Did he split a bill recently?
Celtic is the Palestinian team of Europe
Irish club in the Scottish League
Tottenham and Ajax are the Jews, but I don't know how real it really is
5% jewish fans not really a jewish team is it
There is another Jewish club in Hungary!
MTK Budapest.
Formed in 1888 and still Jewish
Ooh, I did not know this! I'm a Jewish American football fan and I think I just found a new team to play as in Football Manager lol
Based MTK
@@neres5795 What does that mean?
@@ThePetekA it's like legit
@@ThePetekA Terminally online people, like myself, sometimes refer to good or cooler things as "based", althought I would not advise using it that much, since us rather childish.
Perhaps many people forgot, but in the 1920s&30s, since there were significant Jewish communities in almost every major European city, each such city had at least 1 "Jewish" club & 1 "non-Jewish" club, lhe latter usually with strong AntiSemitic attitude
In Rome: FC Roma (Jewish) vs Lazio (non-Jewish)
Budapest: MTK (J) vs Perencvaros
Vienna: Austria Wien (J) vs Rapid
Munich: Bayern (J) vs 1860
and of course, Tottenham vs Arsenal, Chelsea, West Ham etc.
All that ended after the mass murder of Jews during the Holocaust and the dissappearence of whole communities, but much of those traditions still exist today
BTW, PSG was regarded as the "Jewish" team of Paris up until the 1990s lol
Damn thats interesting, atleast its clear who to cheer for, go superjews.
Arsenal and Chelsea have lots of Jewish fans tho
I wonder where eintracht Frankfurt landed. My dad was from there and a rabid eintracht fan. But he was Jewish and had to get the hell out of there.
Oh geez I wonder what happened to those numbers of Jewish people who lived in Europe back in the 20s and 30s, what a mystery /s
as an american jew i had no natural team to back, i picked leicester because i started watching that season. but spurs have always been my second team. ajax is def my first team that isn’t in the epl. and i find the nicknames ‘yid’ and ‘superjew’ quite flattering honestly. i’ve been called a yid before but it’s nice to see it being said proudly in defense of jews
A London based non-league club with a strong Jewish identity is Wingate & Finchley. The star of David being part of their crest.
I have been a Spurs fan since the early fifties and did not hear Yid chants from our fans until the early 80's.In fact, we were known as an Irish club in the fifties(Danny Blanchflower and McNamara's band ).I do not know your source of information but suggest you do more research.
As a Jewish Spurs fan, I've never once had an issue with any of the chants by our non Jewish fans that pertain to my ethnicity or religion (both of which goes hand in hand for us). I've always seen it as reclaiming a slur that was used and still used against us, but in a positive way which is illustrated so well in this video.
You actually pronounce it very well goodjob
Bob Marley. Wearing a 70s Spurs shirt doing keepy uppeys.
Ajax fans singing Three Little Birds.
That’s a nice connection
I would throw Chelsea into this aswell
under Roman the majority of their board was jewish
with the most jewish players and manager under a European club in this century
Maybe I am ignorant of the suffering of diaspora Jews and therefore thier sensitivity to words but I think this is harmless fun and banter in football..Btw just before the Corona I was in Netherlands and Western Europe in after the Army,and in Jewish area in Amsterdam I remember my friends told us Ajax called themselves "SuperJews" and sang Hava Nagila,that was hilarious lol and I petition for that name aswell,we should 100% adopted it to Hapoel BeerSheva.
At Spurs away matches hissing noises are quite common, is that good old 'banter'?
@@LeslieDiablerets Ok I am not talking about that,but I think there is always gonna be morons you should answer them back not ban it.
@@yakov95000 like the calling us hook nose?
I support Tottenham and have always believed that as time has gone on, Jewish related chants have gone onto mean more about the club than Judaism. The word has a different meaning to a lot of Tottenham supporters now.
On 23rd October Spurs played Fulham. Prior to the match there was a minute’s silence for the victims of October 7th. Scrupulously observed, even by the Fulham fans. At the end of the silence there were cries of “ Long live Israel “ from all sides of the stadium. I wear a Star of David at every match I attend. So do many others. The connection between Spurs fans and Jewish people is still strong with us!
Funnily enough Melbourne has two sports teams historically called Ajax (Green Gully SC and AJAX FC), but Green Gully are Maltese (and dropped the Ajax when soccer dropped ethnic names in the 1990s), and AJAX are Jewish
I live across the road from green gully and didn't know they were called Ajax back in the day. My wife is maltese, her family used to be involved with st george fc. Thank you for sharing the info.
There was for years a Jewish club in Melbourne. Hakoah,
Disbanded for lack of support,
There a lot of match going fan are Jewish way more than 5% because the Tottenham fans who aren’t Jewish moved more to the outside of London but still around 20% if are match going fans are Jewish
Bullshit!
Bayern Munich as well, they were once banned from the Bundesliga because of that.
Banned because of being jewish?
As a spurs fan I have used "yid" in chants in the past, never in a negative way obviously, but it's not something I am comfortable doing anymore. Having said that, although anecdotal evidence I know a handful of jewish spurs fans and all of them aren't just fine with the word being used, but actually really like that aspect of the clubs history, makes them feel included, like they're every bit as part of the club as any other supporter. Obviously my 3 jewish mates isn't exactly a wide ranging focus group, but it does make me wonder how much of the pushback against using the word comes from people who aren't jewish or involved in the club themselves, being offended on the behalf of others.
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen Glasgow Rangers fans waving Israeli flags…
That's because Celtic (and Irish nationalists in general) support palestine
Yeah, most that do that won't be doing it because any sort of longstanding connection between the various communities that follow Rangers and Judaism.
It'll literally be because there's a section of the Celtic support that's pro-Palestine
I think I have a memory of reading that Third Lanark were the Jewish club in Scotland, but I might be misremembering that
Rangers, not 'Glasgow Rangers'.
@@blah......4970 Isn't there still a protestant-catholic rivalry between Rangers and Celtic? Dutch protestants traditionally tend to a strong connection with the Old Testament's chosen people. Catholics have a tainted history with jews.
It would have very much surprised me if it had been the other way around.
Football and the history surrounding it make for the best stories
Eintracht Frankfurt is another 'Judenklub'. After reading a brilliant piece about super-fan and Holocaust survivor Sonny Sonnenberg z"l, I found a vintage Eintracht shirt that as a Jewish mom, I'm proud to wear.
As a Leyton Orient supporter who grew up in Londons eastend. They too have a jewish fan base. Orient regard Spurs as their big brother and in the past a feeder club. Harry Kane was a loanee
I love Christian Teams and Jewish Teams so much.🥰😍🤗
Xitians you meant madrid and Barcelona right which English club is xitians
The question needs to be why don’t more of the different sections of society have their own clubs?
Local clubs always come from specific community groups, so why hadn’t this happened?
Twente suporters, are mostly revert to as Boeren (Farmers) which the also took as there nickname, I wonder how many footballers there are in the eredivisie or the premier legue
Love their beer there!
My father played for Hakoach Graz before WW2 ( a refugee fromNazi Austria) supported the Arsenal from during the 1930s and passed the baton to me. I witnessed the Winning game at The Lane in 71 and remember having a large number of Jewish friends who also supported the Arsenal. I’m sure at that time there were equal amounts of Jewish supporters at Spurs and even at Chelsea.
Unfortunately today’s reality is quite disturbing as these clubs are globalizing and have numerous Muslim supporters that blatantly disrespect us and hurl hate towards us on social media.
Wow, David Cameron getting it 100% right.
No sense to link football club associations with religion roots. The affiliation is more linked with the societal context of resident populations. Fans comes from different community , and logical to have a picture of these community in this public place.
This link make sense only when these clubs was founded , drived , and referenced with a specified culture.
Bayern has Jewish Links too.
@Mergor_X Definitively not.
Dortmund is the No.2 and Schalke is in the 2. Bundesliga
But that is not the Reason why your Statement is utter Crap.
And Slavia Prague is also heavily jewish
Ironically, Feyenoord (Ajax's arch rival, whose fans don't shy away from using antisemitic language) has more and deeper Jewish roots than Ajax.
Dombi😊
I dont think spurs have any links with jews not for a hundred years or more
Ajax's stadium was located in an old jewish neighborhood, after the world wars people (for some reason) still discriminated against the jewish community, Ajax ain't a Jewish club, they just couldn't stand the racism that was happening, so Ajax accepted the Jewish community to the club which lead to other clubs calling Ajax a "jewish club" and we just ran with it and turned it into something positive.
Vinden joden voetbal fijn? ALS ZE MAAR VOOR AJAX ZIJN! (Do jews like football?, I DONT CARE AS LONG AS THEY SUPPORT AJAX!)
I repeat we are not a jewish club, but we accept everyone. As long as they suppport AJAX
This guy replied to me on a Saint Maximin vid before
I’m Jewish Bayern Munich ,Ajax, and Tottenham are our clubs I don’t mind when they say yids or joden at these clubs in fact I see it ok
Stop appropriating yourselves clubs because you(Jews and Israelis) don t have any talent in football.
I don't understand your story about Ajax. First of all Transvaal was Protestant.
Second, you did not get to the Meer through Transvaal but through Middenmeer, or better, the Watergraafsmeer. Thát is where most of the Jews lived before the war. Ajax itself has no Jewish background.
I grew up always up
seeing both Ajax & Spurs as predominately
Jewish club in much the same way Rangers
Glentoran , Linfield , and Crusaders are predominantly Protestant clubs as are
Hearts & many others clubs in Nothern Ireland
& Celtic, Hibernian, Dundee United , Cliftonville are predominantly
Roman Catholic clubs.
I really like Ajax very much, so they are my favourites mainland
European club they have been as far back as 1995
I just love Dutch
Voetbal I am very passionate about it.
As a Scottish Chelsea fan since 1996, I dont like
Spurs very much at all, but the same can besead about the other London clubs it's not about
Spurs being Jewish or not, that is just something to antagonise Spurs fans about jokingly.
I terms of Israelis & Palestinians let them get on with it we the British should take nothing what so ever do do with it.
It is not our conflict
to get involved with
The U.K. is not predominately & I say predominantly Jewish country, so we should stay out of things that do not concern the vast majority of our population religiously or politically we have bigger problems to deal with much closer to home in my personal view.
Politics , religion & football should never mix
but living in the West of Scotland, I can tell you they always will in Europe anyway.
concentrate on your own jews - chelshit fans all they do is MOUTH OFF !
As a spurs fan the issue is quite complex for us as using the term yid can lead to more antisemitic chants, making our usage useless. However I remember us playing against teams who would sing racist chants and hearing us chant back yids to silence them was amazing
Ajax are not a "Jewish" club. A Dutchman told me it is the nose on Ajax (on the club badge )that gives them their nicknames.
Interesting piece of football history, I didn't know about.
Im an Englishman first. Im also foremost, a Jew. Enjoyed this video.
For me it comes down to a mixture of intention and the perspectives of real Jews.
When rival fans turn 'who doesn't jump is no Jew' into 'who doesn't jump is a Jew'. Here you don't think about an actual Jew. Here it is the synonym for an Ajax fan. So there is no harm meant. But if Jews feel offended by this. You should respect their feelings and not sing it. There are plenty of other ways to banter.
Clubs can’t just decide to change their identities, supporters define a club’s identity.
I'm seeing more and more Tottenham and Ajax fans becoming increasingly pro Israel due to the level of antisemitism eve seen on the streets of our capitals, it's worth noting an Ajax ultras group attacked a pro Hamas demonstration a few days ago.
I'm of jewish decent and i think both clubs are class mind.
I'm wondering whether the context of using the term 'yids' - approved or non-approved - has a parallel with the African-Caribbean community, where they can use the n word, but not others?
Yid just means a jew in yiddish
🎶 they tried to stop us & look what it did...🎶
thing I love most is being a yid!
Always wondered, thanks!
On Merseyside I know 3 local Jews who like a bit of football and they all support Everton. Never thought to ask if the toffees are the local Jewish club. Must get round to it sometime
The same goes to the Club Atlético Atlanta from Buenos Aires, located in the neighbourhood Villa Crespo, which has a strong jewish presence. Atlanta´s rival, Chacarita, has chants about Atlanta with antisemitic connotations
Is English your second language?
They are now Jewish, but they were imposed by other fans as a mockery. Overtimes, though, they came to accept it and adapt it. Interestingly, these peoples helped Jews during WWII further cemented their reputation.
I got a chuckle when in the US the movement to remove American Indian imagery from pro sports teams there would be comments like "can you imagine the outrage if a team named itself "the New York Jews", as if something like this never happened.
Spurs' logo isn't a horrible anti-semitic caricature of a Jew though.
@@spyrytaraxalass I think the Indian stuff should go since it's not supported by Indian nation except for the Seminoles in Florida, but not all the representational tie ins were similar to the caricatured Chief Wahoo for the former Cleveland Indians.
I don't think you can call Tottenham the Jewish club now as it have a huge worldwide fan base now it was a part of their history more or less
You did miss out a fair bit of background, West Ham has Jewish routes also which you failed to mention. Tottenham have had Jewish chairman all the way back to the 1980s.
Spurs fans who chant 'Yido, or Yid Army' etc are similar to black people using the N word. (It was used against, them, so they threw it back at the aggitators and made it their own.)
Ajax aren't any more Jewish than any other Dutch club.
In fact, if there would be a Durch professional football club who could "claim" Jewish heritage it might be... PSV Eindhoven. They were once founded by the Philips concern and the Philips family is of Jewish descent as Lion Philips, the grandfather of both Gerard and Anton Philips was Jewish.
Nevertheless, I strongly feel all clubs should ban inappropiate "Jewishness" alltogether. Ajax fans should refrain from calling themselves "Superjews"and using Jewish symbols and other teams should refrain from calling them Jews and singing antisemetic songs. Create a new nickname, a more common one.