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I saw the original Dune movie decades back. It was heavy on the visual symbology and imagery through out it. Left those non-Dune looking to see a sci fi flick. Lost bored and confused. First few episodes of DP. Some of the imagery gave me some og Dune vibes. Which might not be a good thing for those looking to watch a sci fi series and pick Dune without knowing it's.... I hate this stupid word..... canon. If there's canon.... self-appointed gatekeepers of the lore are never far off.
love your channel ! way too much CGI, and not enough practical effects. I don't get the feeling of world-building way too many people on set pieces talking, this is more like palace intrigue without the intrigue where is the rest of the universe? no action ...at all writing quality is poor, this seems like something ABC produced for TV I am a DUNE lunatic and I am really disappointed. C- just give me DUNE Misaiah, and please hurry.
@NerdCookies The canary in the coal mine for this show was that the original plan was for Delenuve to produce the show and direct the pilot. The fact that he withdrew his involvement and his name appears nowhere in the credits is a gigantic red flag that should loom heavily.
I really like it so far, but I HATE the stupid Lila character who died during the agony surving her purpose of letting the rest of the sisters know that Desmond Hart is something special and as guessed she is a horribly forced character liked so much for what reason? I'm going with diversity. Now she'll be the first to survive the agony so we HAVE to deal with the woke filler... I like the Emperors children, that's cool seeing how things work in the Dune world, obviously the Harkonans are very interesting and Travis Femmal is killing it. I'm invested But useless characters need to disappear
@@taylorburke5388 woke is such a stupid word to use. Plenty of other words you could use. Modern, different, forward thinking, dynamic, city folk, educated folk, etc I seriously don't give a shirt what happens behind the camera. Every show, ever made, has actors. I don't care who does what roles. If it's worth my time I'll watch it. If it isn't, I won't.
My biggest gripe with this show is the lack of any sense of pomp or ceremony in regards to the emperor. There's this bizarre sense that anyone can just wander into his private chambers for a talk, that Desmond is just freely wandering the palace, and that there's absolutely no security whatsoever. Having Valya just walk into the throne room while he's in the middle of an audience with no herald, no doorman no nothing. Where's the court? Where's the guards? The security chief? Why does it feel like he's the mayor of known space rather than the Emperor? Why exactly is he so weak a single member of the Landstraad can threaten him to his face? It's all so weird and dissonant.
meh, isn't the emperor a relatively new idea at this point? in American history, people treated Abraham Lincoln and the presidency very informally , big contrast to all the pomp and ceremony that came later for the office of the presidency
Saw another comment saying they preferred the son’s work and got so confused. How could a misinterpreted, twisted version of dune be better than the original creator’s vision??
@@Hi-pl5rx because the BH and KJA forays into the dune universe don't require that the reader truly immerse themselves into the story and use their own minds to flesh out the subtle nuanced message of the writer. its all fluff and surface sparkle with no substance.
"Feels like I'm watching a CW young adult fantasy show." Thank you for putting into words what I've been struggling to verbalize, the tone and production quality is so off from scene-to-scene. One minute we're in Denis's vision of Dune with a dark atmospheric mood, then we whiplash to some terribly lit, cheesy nightclub sequence that feels like a totally different universe/show.
I did notice the emperor's kids are like supermodels, which threw me off. The nightclub, scenes, though...at first it felt odd, but when you think about it, of course there are night clubs in this universe. Why wouldn't there be? And in the show, it turns out it's really the setting of meetings for a rebellion, giving it more of a purpose. But I do get what you're saying. I was thrown off at first.
_BIN.GO._ 👍 Nailed it. Although I admittedly can't help but watch any broad-release Dune production that gets released - 😢 - the greatness and the grandness of the Dune universe (and its caliber of storytelling) DESERVE more than the almost typical, low-standard HBO soap opera treatment that it got. It deserves the highest of artistry in EVERY department, as quite likely the best epic/cosmic sci-fi story ever created.
The nightclub scenes do feel shoe-horned, like someone wanted an Atredies in a select number of episodes. Otherwise, I don't think that applies to the rest of it.
Preface: I am holding out hope for this show still. However, Something I love about the Dune books (Frank’s at least) is there is a lack in on page action I suppose, but each conversation between characters is almost like a duel where each person is trying to outsmart the other. Usually the duels are very subtle and if we didn’t have the thoughts of each character we might not understand what’s actually being said. The dialogue in this show is so far from that sort of thing that it’s hard to really see this as a Dune show. More like a show masquerading as Dune IP using factions and family names from Dune. I don’t think the Bene Jesserit would be the exact same 10k years ago, but they would surely be just as cold and calculating. As would every character nearly. The emperor being sort of a fool makes sense to me tho as he doesn’t necessarily need the same amount of cunning as other characters given he’s already in a place of power.
I'm equal parts hopeful and concerned. My wife and I are genuinely interested in the plot points, but I also am struggling to see how they're going to be able to satisfy each arc in the remaining episodes. My biggest fear is a massive cliffhanger and a second season that never comes. We shall see.
Everyone liked Dune: Part 2 better because of the constant action, though. But I agree that the books are a lot of talking, a lot of philosophical conversations. It's what I loved about them.
I'm going to wait for the whole series to finish before I craft an opinion. I feel like these first 3 episodes are basically set up. That being said, if the action doesn't pick up rather quickly, I'd say the series is in trouble. Also, 6 episodes is way way way too few to even try to do a Dune series.
Agreed, I know the FH books were basically talking head books and I love the story they told, but with a show there has to be a bit more action or visual tension. Also agreed that if they were only going to do six episodes they needed to be much longer. The movies took it too far though, too much action and not nearly enough storytelling or respect for the lore.
Couldnt have said it better. I feel like its setup, and for a 6 episode show, not sure if its the right decision. especially if your goal is long running series with multiple seasons in the current media landscape. but tbh am just happy to be in a dune world again, and I am enjoying the lore and flashbacks. the problem is I still kinda dont know what is the show about in way hahah. but I will wait for the whole arc to finish before crafting an opinion. Also think the young tula and valya are doing a great job with the acting.
I find the use of the "voice" to be the biggest letdown. Valya goes from using it once in a panic primal call to get her brother to swim, to murder. I feel like it has become a gimmick. They should have drawn out the development of the skill gradually to show it progress. It also cheapened it to learn it's a skill she innately had, vice something that was the product of training and discipline. But my biggest gripe is that she only uses it one way... What is she gonna say when there's no knife handy? "TAKE OUT YOUR CAR KEYS?"
They will, it's clear that the makers wait for "the progress of voice use" when she will teach it to the princes Ynez (else it would feel boring because we've already have seen the voice lessons before). And frankly honest we all just want to see some Guild and Tleilaxu action, you don't have to be a Mentat to figure that one out.
@@Yarblocosifilitico absolutely. This is exactly like the force awakens. It's not heroic to just be born with something. That's not an achievement. That's not a story arch. That's just a 90degree upward trajectory.
@@LordShizzle say what you will about the D. Lynch adaptation of Dune, that dude had mentats, the guild, and a terrifying AF Vlad Harkonnen. New Dune MCU feels like a cologne commercial in comparison.
The story and world of Dune is very high concept, so it's really best as a niche thing -- not a general audience experience at all. For a general audience to experience Dune is like sitting through philosophy class at school; it's going to strike most people as "boring." Dune was first released in 1965, and it was initially a poor showing. it gained a cult status from college-age kids that were in college between 1965 and early 70s, abouts. Try talking to people who were in school in those years, and ask them about Dune. It's an interesting experience. Dune touches down on a lot of themes that were important to 60s kids. Dune is an acquired taste -- trying to generalize it just diminishes it.
I generally agree with what you're saying. What bums me out, though, is that if it doesn't appeal to general audiences, it will not continue to be adapted. It has to make money for that to happen. So for me to get more Dune adaptations, people have to watch it and enjoy it. Very annoying. 😆
Agreed. And only high artistry and a committed vision can bridge the two (the engaging, strategic chess of the political action; and the visionary, enthralling, larger-than-life action and world-building that Dune _does_ indeed still have and deserve _soooo_ much of). The well-done symbiosis of the two is what would make it achieve its proper epic standard... And compel audiences to not just show up, but sink their teeth into.
Feels like there was another 4-6 episodes that could have given us some more context and character growth. This 6 episode stuff is kinda strange especially with how much money these producers make
I question whether she read the books, the faults she first names about the show are the same criticism the books got when they came out. I really like the show so far. Of course the last 2 episodes will make or break it.
I have been wondering if Hart's mission isn't really to stop the Bene Gesserit, but to trick them into taking a path that will lead to the Kwisatz Haderach.
Nobody has really gotten the Bene Gesserit right. They weren't frumpy. They were beautiful, with doe-like eyes. Deadly ballerinas.They were purveyors of sex as control, so they were physically attractive. I imagine this aspect of the sisterhood would be politically incorrect.
Remember this is shortly after the start of the order. They are training to be truth sayers, not concubines. That probably comes along much later to help further the breeding program.
Not every Bene Gesserit was trained to be the same. And remember, this is only a few decades into their existence. By the time Paul is born, the Bene Gesserit are a force to be reckoned with and are nigh impossible to take out of the equation.
I think this show should have been about the three schools, the sisterhood, Mentats, and the spacing guild, the Emperor doing the the Emperor thing and the sisterhood working behind the scenes, Mentats doing their calculations and planning within plans, the spacing guild being weird, this show isn't weird enough,
@ericmatteson8888 I hope so, but it would have been better if they were in this season, working against each other and the sisterhood, the spacing guild and other houses
Much of the dialogue in this show is just awful. The characters don’t have conversations so much as they monologue at one another. It’s been laughably bad at times. I’ve not read any reviews thus far, but I agree with most of those you cited here. My thought was that it has felt much like a poorly written CW series at times. Glad to hear I’m not the only one. I plan to continue watching, but I am disappointed by the degree to which HBO has missed on this. The opportunity was there for a groundbreaking show, but instead we get wooden dialogue and warmed over tropes. I can’t imagine we’ll see a Season 2.
Very well said; and very spot on. Although I admittedly can't help but watch any broad-release Dune production that gets released - 😢 - the greatness and the grandness of the Dune universe (and its caliber of storytelling) DESERVE more than the almost typical, low-standard HBO soap opera treatment that it got. It deserves the highest of artistry in EVERY department... as quite likely the best epic cosmic sci-fi story ever created, ever told.
It could be better, but considering what Disney / Amazon etc are offering wow could it have been a lot worse, I'm hoping the individual spin off series over time gain their legs exploring the different guilds and groups
Hm, I don't think we should be too hard on Dune Prophesy yet. At least the show takes itself seriously and it is not just a stupid sell out or disrespecting the IP to make politics or try to appeal only to a "modern audience" whatever that would be. I think it's only natural that a Dune show about the Bene Gesserit is low on action scenes - it should be about the plotting. The show looks quite nice and fits with Denis' visuals, good work! I agree that some of the younger characters seem mostly there as eye-candy so far, but a little bit of "guilty pleasure" is ok too, and hopefully it can give non-Dune-fans another reason to keep watching. Also, I really like all the stuff about the Butlerian Jihad, fits perfectly for today's world. Can't wait for the remaining episodes!
I feel it is doing all those things. It's just that the setting naturally fits in that space Women focused girl bosses. Secretly puppeting incompetent men. But while other IP force and contort. Dune was already that.
The third episode was the best so far because we get to focus on the two sister and thier motivation. Thier flashback should been the first episode of the show. Ending with Valya using the voice on Dorothea and the thirty year time skip. Then episode 2 would be about the characters we got to know already navigating their current positions in life.
I like the show. I do believe 6 episodes are not enough but it is what it is. But I disagree, I think there is a lot of not fans who actually enjoy the series. So my conclusion is that the perception of this series is very divided and that is ok I guess.
In the books the sisters have surpassed human limits with incredible amount of self control and discipline and consider someone who can't control their emotions to not even be human. In the show they're a bunch of feeble nattering emotional dolts. The Voice spontaneously happens to random people "because of evolution", not a result of intense training developed by the sisters. It's so badly written it's amazing.
@@ninshu6paths659 They did mention in the show it was an ability she had to learn over time to strengthen/perfect, and she was going to teach others. Plus, it didn't work on DH.
Agree across the board. I'm a fan of the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson books, and would have rather seen the Butlerian Jihad. It would have had more action and higher stakes, not to mention it's kind of an origin story for the hostility between the Atreides and Harkonnens. Instead they chose this time period and the Sisterhood because it would put women in the forefront. There's no good Dune story in this thus far. Yes, the production values are great, but I just watched the mini series (Dune and Children of Dune), which is also a bit of a slow burn with rock bottom production values, but found the whole series much more rewarding than just the 3 episodes I've seen of this. I just don't think the broader public is interested in the denser Dune lore the way Dune fans are. I'm also extremely nervous about Villeneuve's Messiah. Not that he won't do an amazing job, but a) he's painted himself into a corner with certain story elements (as you have mentioned - Chani), and b) it's nothing like the first book/films. This is what happens when you let big corporations mess with epic franchises - they fuck em up (looking at you Amazon and your dreadful ROP).
I've never actually seen another fan of Brian and Kevin's not to mention the Mini Series. I love them all. I have 0 desire to watch this series though. I couldn't even bring myself to watch Dune part 2 because they changed Chani so much.
Yeah BH/KJA fan here also. While their first efforts were quite lack luster they definitely brought and expanded some interesting stories to the Dune Universe (Erasmus, Norma Cenva to mention a couple). They could have done a Norma Cenva series if they wanted to get their feet wet before tackling something as complex as the origins of the Sisterhood. The cameos from Norma Cenva coming into power could have been the seeds they needed to really gain an audience who would be interested in this series. That is if they aren't going to turn Lila into a Norma type character, which will be a shame.
I don't think Hollywood has learned what to do with short seasons. They're not quite a mini-series but they aren't a full season and they just can't get the writing and pacing right. Sometimes if feels like the first six episodes of a slow building 20-episode season and they don't have that kind of time to screw around.
Because it's based on Brian Herbert and KJA's fanfictions, I don't allow myself to be drawn into any of the story, because my brain rejects nearly everything as wrong and anachronistic to the timeline established in the original books and the Dune Encyclopedia. As a show for Dune Fans, we're split, along those who accept the works of Frank's son, and those who do not. They've chosen the son's side, and I'm not on that side... As a show for a general audience, convoluted is a good word. As somebody with no frame of reference for who these characters are, and what situation the whole universe is in at this moment in time, because they're not the characters and events that I know from Frank's work, I find myself fitting more of the "general audience" category, than "Dune fan" section, and in this position, I feel it's lacking in world building, establishing relationships and stakes. It assumes you know the events of the extended universe, while ignoring the source material. I'm in a "want to like it, but I don't" place, with it.
I'm digging it. Not a fan of Brian's books, this improves on his work. There are whole chapters in Frank's books where people just converse. It's philosophy, not action.
As someone who's had "Mentat" in my internet names since I was a teenager (before TH-cam existed), I clearly wish other aspects of the Dune world were being showcased. That being said, I'm honestly a little confused by the negative reception of this show. Three episodes in, I'm very interested (especially after episode 3!). I like the nods to the books and I like that the new and mysterious Desmond stuff and the {spoiler} under everyone's noses which Tula is {spoiler} while Lyla {spoiler}.... My wife is not a Dune fan (she enjoyed the Villeneuve movies well enough, but that's it). But, she's watching the show and asking me questions and forming theories.... It seems to me that many beloved sci-fi shows started a bit shaky and took time to develop (try watching Star Trek Next Gen's first season, or the first few episodes of New Who). I'm along for the ride and don't think people should judge much from 3 or 4 episodes. Give it a chance! 6 episodes is a teaser. If we get behind it, the writing team could have time to learn from their mistakes, bring in other big ideas (like Mentats), etc.
@@Mentat1231sex scenes and nudity are a long time favorite of HBO, so they are to be expected. But I agree, unnecessary. As to the show itself, I agree with you that it is much better than people are saying. I like it quite a lot.
The only character that seems like a sympathetic relatable character was the young Valya Harkonnen. The main timeline story needed a similar central focal character to bind all the other storylines, which themselves seem weak and have no connection to the main book events. I think this is all obvious to most people, not sure why it escaped the show runners-
I can guess that if they are focusing on Brian Herbert and KJA 's books, this will not likely be for me. I LOVE the legendarium of Dune; the first 5 books are some of favorite Science Fiction stories. Beyond that it's just not for me that's cool though, I hope those who enjoy it get what they are looking for out of the show.
To me the development of the spacing guild should have been the series focus. Yet the history of the witches is quite interesting. Flash backs is just a sign of poor writing. Flash backs are is lazy.
Even as a hardcore Dune fan I find it very hard to keep watching this series, so I can only imagine normal folks. The ambience feels like _Dune,_ but the writting feels like a mix of Hogwarts with scifi. It's not a matter of _"any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishebly from magic",_ because: - Firstly, we are actually suppose to be watching this thru the eyes of a declining - technologically speaking - society where the technological peak is long gone (where many roles of technology will be swapped by superhuman capabilities going forward... superhuman, not supernatural) - Secondly because this is straightforwardly asking me to completely disregard Frank Herbert's (and even his son's) grounding of the franchise in physical phenomena and embrace _"magic"..._ Either that or disregard that any other answer besides magic is equally preposterous because it would need different stages of development of other agents and groups that shouldn't be as involved and developed at the time the series takes place, i.e. the face dancer hypothesis, nano-machines (when Frank Herbert wrote the first 3 books that term hadn't even be coined, that's why it's never mentioned or hinted such technology existed in this universe... and lets be fair, it doesn't exist in ours either except for the term.... so far at least), and even supernatural psychic powers (!!!!!!!!!!! **). Or simply contradict future events (and I don't mean this earlier Gene Gesserit using Thinking Machines, that it's canon on Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson books, more precisely the _Sisterhood of Dune..._ yes, that was the initial name for this show as well). Anyway, I have no problem with adaptations not following canon, in taking artistical liberties... I love the _Foundation_ (book) series, and I also love the tv show even thou the tv show adaptation takes enourmous artistical liberties with it. But it's still good, it still feels _Foundation,_ it's still enticing and engaging. Dune Prophecy, however, does not. ** and no, don't anyone dare to bring the Sorceresses of Rossak as an example of "magic", of supernatural powers... even their powers is grounded in physical phenomena (even if it's stretching to the limit the suspension of disbelief): the Sorceresses have the ability (genetic) to harness electrical currents, and discharge in their surranding area. They work as a biological EMP (and affecting biological beings in a very terminal way, frying the nervous system, including theirs). That's not magic, that's not psychic power, they are a mix of literal walking lighning rods, that picks up current, and capacitors or inductors and are able to discharge it at will (well, once and done). Is it hogwash? Sure, but there are creatures that do something similar (albeit not so catastrophically): electric eels for example.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the showrunners' portrayal of BG prophecy. I thought it was bizarre to show Paul being prophesied 10k years before his life, and that it contradicts Herbert's explanations of how their powers work
@@Cortesevasive regardless…. When they wrote this amateur script, they absolutely expected the audience to go “ooooo they’re talking about Paaaaaul”. Setting the story 10k years before Paul but right after the Butlerian Jihad was such an awful decision
You're so histrionic with your opinions. It's definitely not a failure already, time will tell. It is what it is though, still enjoy hearing your thoughts. Just wild to me to be so critical of it already. They'll definitely be more Dune content So hyped for that.
Its been a while... But wasnt the spice harvesting on Arrakis , the sisterhood/Bene Geserit and their abilities, the Landsraad, etc etc all developed multiple thousands of years AFTER the Butlerian Jihad? There was no need for any of it when they had thinking machines.. but this show is set what? 120 years later? not long enough for any of this to develop to this level
This adaptation is treating Brian Herbert's works as cannon so no those things were developed in their infancy at towards the end of the butlerian jihad.
Fans of the Dune books are a discerning bunch. I haven't seen it, but if that crowd has issues with this series, I think I'll pass. I so enjoyed the last three Herbert books, I don't want to spoil the afterglow.
It needed more of a "Raised by Wolves" kind of pace and tone. It shouldn't have jumped right to the sisterhood. The flashbacks in episode 3 should've been the entire season in greater detail.
My first introduction into Dune was the 2021 movie; never really heard of Dune until that. And I loved it. Part 2 was fantastic, but I think I prefer part 1. In that context, I'm loving the show. All of the lore and intrigue is fascinating. I'm digging the GOT in space vibe.
What I find most interesting about this show, despite it's disappointments, is that the story is touching down on something that had long puzzled me about FH's Dune. How do the Bene Gesserit know that generations of gene manipulation will result in a special man that can do all the things attributed to the Kwisatz Haderach? Where does the concept of a Kwisatz Haderach even come from? This show could be trying to show that the first Kwisatz Haderach came about accident or chance, ergo, the BG ought to be able to replicate it. So the Kwisatz Haderach is a thing that's happened before. I find that concept fascinating.
The GoT episode where they’re riding horses lost me completely. Thousands of years in the future on far flung planets, we find genetically unchanged horses on a planet that just happens to look like Westeros? Please.
I was 1/2 watching it and then I thought that I WAS watching GOT. it really messed me up. I`m a due fan but this just bores me. Shame since now winter has come and I need something to watch and keep warm!
The fact that they essentially just turned Valya into an X-Man mutant, where she “ discovers” she has the power of the voice because her brother was drowning, instant of practicing and refining the ability, really lost me…. Like come on 🙄
As an avid reader, I have mixed perceptions of the show. However, my non Dune fanatic wife has really enjoyed the show and found the last episode more engaging than the first two 🤷🏻♂️ I’m excited to see where it goes Love your content !!❤
Haven’t seen it yet but I will probably watch it. (What can I say, I’m a DUNE geek) But problem one is they went off the Bene Gesserit book. Hint: Brian can’t write! I’m not sure if he’s even read his dad’s books. Solution: some houses are heavily backed by the Bene Gesserit. Pick one or make up a house and have it fight over a mcguffin…say, don’t know…SPICE! The thing the entire universe revolves around. They don’t even have to control DUNE! Have them trying to influence smugglers. Or a shadow fight over a consignment of spice. Plenty of action there. Miami vice state cops stumble on some smugglers and try to arrest them. Bad move, they have shields and trained by the sisters. 5 min action scene to start the show with a bang. Have the smugglers talking. But in subtitles show what they’re actually saying to each other. Discussions within discussions. Wheels within wheels.
@@Yarblocosifilitico the kicker is it starts off with action and world building. This is a shield…this is why you don’t use a gun in the DUNE universe…this is a Bene Gesserit agent (not all of which are female) and this is what they can do if they cut lose. And why everyone is scared sh*tless of them. Combat and world building. Takes about 5min of screen time.
Also Spice is probably the best form of clandestine payment for anything. A briefcase of it could by a small moon. And it’s usually shipped in vacuumed bricks. But break one of those down two small thumbnail sized vials and you’re good. Add to that most all of the higher echelons of society are addicted to it (including the Bene Gesserit) and things get a might interesting.
I hate it. It can't decide where and when it takes place. Sometimes it feels like GOT (yes I know there is corelation), sometimes it feels like Star Wars and sometimes it just feels like a mixed salad of random ideas.
I disagree with you about criticizing it for the lack of action. Dune has always been a political thriller with a sci-fi coating. It tones down on action for philosophy and politics. It makes for great literature but a challenge to adapt live-action. I’m not saying Dune Prophecy is good though. It think it’s less deeper and less dramatic than it thinks it is
you can't sell these type of shows to the masses. if you want to make a niche show, sure go ahead, but HBO generally hopes for a bigger cake besides the "philosophy" in it is so bad, and the conversations are so incredibly stupid, you can't sell this to anyone who likes serious scifi
nowhere in Frank Herbert's universe was there a fantasy-type 'magic'. desmond hart burning people alive with some kind of psychic power or telekinesis is like the 'weirding module' concept in Lynch's 1984 movie. same with the nightclub scenes, they don't fit in. meh. other than that it is an interesting take on the dune universe's 'lore' - especially the early BG and Harkonnen history
Unfortunately, when it was mentioned the show would focus on the “sisterhood” my interest was killed. I assumed it would be another female centric girl boss show…the Benefit Gesserit provides the perfect vehicle/excuse to do it. I feel bad admitting my bias, but me, along with a huge portion of the population have been conditioned to think this way by Hollywood and their television/movie decisions. The girl boss has become a trope. Another Hollywood trope is telling instead of showing. They either think we’re too dumb to understand without telling us everything, or they don’t know how to show us visually. I got a little excited about the after watching another video you did, but after this one I think I’ll pass. You mentioned you felt they were trying to make the show epic…the lore of Dune is epic in itself. You have to work to mess that up. You also mentioned production problems, so that explains that. Keep reviewing if you have the stamina LOL…I really like your videos!🔥❤️🔥😁
I felt the Bene Gesserit was chosen as the focus of a Dune series because they are the most significant and long-lasting force in the books. Paul Atreides is a direct result of their manipulations. Even after Paul and his son defy them, reducing their power, they evolve and continue to be a force to be dealt with. The movies didn't have time to explain everything about them. They did their best. I felt this show was meant to fill in the blanks, to make audiences understand the power, purpose, and significance of the sisterhood. It sheds light on the story in a way the movies didn't have time to do. Don't assume everything is about politics. The TV and movie industry is about money.
I went in not expecting much and not fully understanding the world of Dune and I’m hooked. Is way better than what I expected and it gets better by each episode to me. The only thing I don’t care too much for is Ynez and her friends and stuff but Desmond, Valya, etc. Yesss
I feel like the writing got the Rings of Power treatment, without the $1b announced budget. Like it's straining against its budget and format, wants to be epic and galaxy-spanning, with 7 plotlines, but just feels cluttered and ground-level. I suspect that the story choice reflected the zeitgeist prior to everyone getting tired of girlbosses. Want to do a prequel?, well hey, those Bene G are utterly fascinating, let's do their origin!! Yeah, nah. We know they're ruthless asshles. Next. How about exploring a theme for everyone, like "How Did the Empire Survive without Thinking Machines??". That's interesting. And opens up all manner of intrigue with the Tleilaxu, the Spacing Guild, Mentats, and the rather dull Bene G. The factions and mythic principles are all there, you don't have to make up some bs Desmond Hart guy with a flaming migraine. Note to Hollywood: Just because your characters are women, that doesn't make them interesting. They need to do, think, aspire, plot, sacrifice, self-sabotage, and triumph in interesting ways.
I figured out how to watch Dune Prophecy and make it really good. Anytime it shows a scene on the Benny Jesrit homeworld just skip it. It was actually really good then.
I'm thoroughly convinced that Frank Herbert's material is just not suitable to be portrayed on the little or the big screen. And we live in a western society that is choking on political and social ideology such that creativity is stifled. So to have Frank Herbert's work portrayed in a way that is accurate to the source material, you've got to have visionary directors/screenwriters and talented character actors. I don't think we've gotten any of that from Denni Villeneuve In his movies or from this TV series. I'm not trying to say these things are bad. Don't take my opinion here the wrong way.
Creativity is stifled in the movie industry because the industry is by its very nature hugely risky. Tons of money has to be poured into these things, with no guarantee of profit. So the industry has become more and more risk averse. That's why we keep getting reboots, sequels, and stories based on established properties in other mediums. I love that A24 movies are original stories. I watch them a lot.
@nav579 What you say is very true. I agree with it wholeheartedly. But I think you also have to add in to the fact that a lot of the creativity has been stifled with political and social ideology. This, along with what you said has greatly hampered the ability of the entertainment industry to operate successfully.
@@kwaki-serpi-niku Even this social ideology you speak of is done in the pursuit of profits....trying to appeal to a wider audience to get more butts in seats. I think the industry just didn't predict a politically motivated backlash against it.
@@nav579 Objectively, can we say that these movies that pursue these weird and culturally Marxist social messaging are in the pursuit of profit. We have too many examples of films like this that have been financial flops.
As a "hardcore Dune fan", I'm actually enjoying the show very much. I don't mind the "slowness" to be honest, I think if fits the source material fairly well. And as for the deviations/inconsistencies from the lore, I don't take the prequels too seriously anyway so they don't bother me too much. I totally agree there are some sections with a different (and crappy) tone, but I ignore them xD and yes some of the actors are meh....Oh well, after rings of power I am very happy with Dune Prophecy by comparison (pretty low bar I know...)
it's not just inconsistent with the prequel books, it throws the original lore out on the window too. what does it mean that you are a hardcore fan if anything is good?
Wanna see some fun numbers? Dune Prophecy: 1 season -6 Episodes.... -13 Writers -37 Producers GoT: 8 seasons -73 Episodes -23 Writers -57 Producers In 6 pathetic episodes they have over half the amount of writers and producers that Game of Thrones accumulated in 8 seasons..lol. Just looking at those figures alone & without watching a single second of an episode, we could have predicted that creative differences were going to doom the show. The Witcher suffered party from this. Entirely too many cooks in the kitchen and clearly too many people that want to tell their own story(fanfiction) based on an established IP.
I think it's fun. I think it's better than Dennis Villanuevas Dune is bad. One slow episode the 3rd one is OK. It's not going to be one big battle. The only good thing about the new Dune movie was the ornithopter. Dune is not a coming of age story. It's about spice a drug that is vital to life in the Dune world. In an age of War on drugs it's a hard sell. There is no attempt at explaining folding space. Travis Fimal steals the show. The original Dune move with Sting is way better. HBO has produced great series. True Blood, Sopranos, Game of Thrones, Rome. HBO has lost that initial magic. I think you should give it a chance. I've read all the books, and love Dune.
Its nowhere near as confusing as the Witcher's first season. At least you KNOW they are different time lines in Dune Prophecy. where as that other show you didn't until like episode 2/3 and it all could have been fixed with a subtitle of XX years earlier
When I saw the title I said to myself "If you lose Nerd Cookies, you've lost.". I feel the same as you do. The CW-esque comment was spot on. I saw Dune in the theatre when it first came out. It was a space opera but somehow seemed foundational, not derivative, yet completely unique. Add in the fact that Buckaroo Bonzai, The Last Starfighter, and Robotech had come along and opened up many minds to the concept of "now for something completely different". All of that to say I have been a fan for a long time. I don't so much mind the deep dive they are trying to take, it's just too many storyline, locations, people, and these random time jumps. AppleTV's 'Foundation" suffers the same issues. In the end I will applaud their efforts and the quality of the product. I cannot imagine trying to take such a broad universe and tighten into a coherent story beam.
This show is not good. I will say that HBO has made this Game of Thrones in Space. They should have shown how the Sisterhood was formed, instead of going for the low hanging fruit of the House Harkonnen and House Atreides. Showing the voice and how it was created was lazy. I would have loved to see how the sisterhood mastered their skills. The Penguin, for example, was the Game of Thrones of Gotham, however, there was love in the story telling, with Zero Batman. Why couldn't this be done with Dune Prophecy? So disappointed.
I genuinely don't understand the hate, especially when we're only halfway through the season. I'm a huge fan of the FH books and see very few glaring issues in the writing for this show. we're only a couple hundred years into the formation of the sisterhood, and people are expecting these characters to be just as badass and powerful as mothers taraza or odrade. at the end of the day, could the show be a bit better? always -- welcome to 2024 hollywood!
I am a hardcore Dune fan and I have 0 interest in this series. 1. it has way too much of Brian Herbert's vision in it. 2. Dune part 2 was a major let down for me so I have lost interest in anything other but Frank Herbert's novels.
I love the show so far! Really hoping we’re getting a season two. I worry some content creators may be creating hateful opinions as click bait for views. I hope that’s not what’s happening here.
I’m one of the book readers who think they should’ve started at the beginning with the machine war, not skipping back and forth with flashbacks to tell multiple stories at the same time. Personally I don’t like flashbacks because it’s shows sloppy lazy poor script writing ability. I totally agree with you about the exposition dumps but as someone who’s read all the books, this isn’t something new, Frank Herbert wins that award. He could go on for several chapters at a time with exposition dumps, sometimes using his own research papers as filler material in the books like he did with Arrakis ecology and used the research paper he done on beach grass and beach erosion back in the 1950s. Frank also was very bad at giving complete histories of characters every time they were reintroduced complete with physical description and family tree details; it’s hard not to know all the Atreides, Carinos, and Harkonnens names and descriptions because it’s burned into your brain from so much repetition in all the books. There’s so much repetition and useless exposition that you could cut it out after the first mention of it and the books would be at least 50% shorter and no suffer any story damage. As for this show it’s lackluster at best. Nothing against the performers but they don’t remind me of anything about the characters in the books. The Harkonnens are supposed to have red hair and have a widow’s peak hairline, these details are clearly in all the books regardless of author but the TV versions look like generic Targaryen bastards with dark hair instead. I agree with you also about the CW teen romance vibe. I never watched CW because of that. I think it’s worse because they make the women as unattractive as possible in this show. I’ve seen photos of the actresses in street clothes and they look much different and much more attractive than these characters who desperately need a makeover! You mentioned Harry Potter and I didn’t make that connection but I did get a good laugh out of it but not as good a laugh when I heard Young Valya use the Voice the first time I laughed my ass off because it was the most pathetic “Voice” ever like she had a hairball stuck in her throat. This show will definitely confuse anyone who hasn’t read the books. It’s bad enough for me and I have read the books and have to refresh myself sometimes because so much is going on across different stories in different timelines. Great video breakdown as always and looking forward to your next one. I apologize in advance for any typos, this iPhone is terrible at SWYPE and constantly autocorrects words that were previously confirmed. I miss my Windows Phone because it never had a autocorrect problem.
One more thing. This show takes place 10000 years before Paul's story line. So why is the technology the same, do you mean the tech had zero evolution in 10K years?
I think the show is great for a show that had many delays and seemed like it would never see the light of day. They pulled it out and made it watchable. But the show itself is rather mediocre. Production is great in some scenes then in others it looks like some WB show. I'm sure HBO wouldn't mind to get out of this at a 10% loss on investment.
Gosh, expectations are SO unachievablely high these days, don't you think? It's really quite a wonder why studios bother making any new adapations or series at all... maybe that's what'll it come to in the end, they simply won't! Nothing's gonna be perfect, nor will it appeal to everyone, but is it so hard to try and find some enjoyment in what artists and creators are putting out there, and be a little sympathetic to their (perceived) mistakes, and imperfections? Is the expectation really that you'll be totally blown away at each episode, the amazing sets, writing, CGI, acting, budget, story/adaptation, etc., each and every time!? Not saying any opinions are invalid (but that's kinda my point)...
The one thing I appreciate is how the agony is - both explaining what happens as well as how they are depicting ego memories Overall it is as you say - some interesting bits to Dune fandom but otherwise slow and plodding and you just don’t feel a connection I would have loved to have seen something that explained how humans managed to figure out how to exist in a universe without thinking machines - how did humans figure out that spice can expand humanity, how did each faction decide to specialize, etc
Im glad pthers share my opinion. I couldn't make it fully through the first episode. It is awful. It's bad fan fiction. Every other reviewer laps it up, and so do other commentors. When i heard Sky were doing it i knew it would be awful.
Those conversations actually pit characters against each other in a clever and captivating way. I could listen to days worth of real Dune characters going back and forth with one another. Frank’s characters use words as weapons. These characters just say exactly what they’re thinking pretty much besides Desmond Hart, who seems to be by far the most Frank Herbert character in the show
Am I the only one who was flabbergasted by Javicco's overly chill response to the toy thinking machine? That was a massive show of weakness - I would've started a coup that evening, definitely not a corrino
Typical of showrunner's poor writing. They don't care about lore nor books fans. Its a waste of time keep hope about this writers can expand the universe or fill time-line gaps with interesting new material, stories and exiting characters. This is corroborated so many times. Same for Villeneuve's version of Dune, aesthetically impressive, but full of questionable story changes and missing important book's characters and factions. This media material must be watched with open mind, and try to "enjoy" it as much as possible (XD) as spinoffs or free adaptations inspired from the books, nothing less and nothing more.
8:05 - just that statement alone "mystery boxes" destroys any "excitement" i had. abrams has, single handedly, dismantled what was known as the "tease". i am exhausted of the long winded trope. world building, cinematics, dramatic flairs, and exposition does not replace story telling.
to be fair, i appreciate the struggles of this show being a return to a simpler idea of learning to tighten up the story vs grossly substituting "modern" messaging. i would rather failures connected to world building and exposition lol.
“… feels like a CW-esque young adult fantasy show.” This is spot-on. I love a heavy dialogue, slow burn drama so long as the dialogue is meaningful and feels appropriate for the setting. This just feels … slow.
The problem is; if it was action packed and “exciting”, then the book fans would say it was made to appeal to the masses and not in the spirit of the source material and hate on it. If it is talky and slow building, folks say it doesn’t appeal to the masses and hate on it. We live in an era where everyone really is a critic, and that’s not always a good thing. I’m a Dune hardcore and I am enjoying the show, especially because it is a new story and I have no idea where it is going. This is the first time since my first exposure to Dune as a 12 year old in the theater in 1984 that I have been able to sit and watch a Dune production and NOT know what was going to happen. My wife is a recent Dune convert and we are loving the show together. Discussing plots and possible theories, etc… we never even had that during the Game of Thrones heyday as we had read this books. Everyone was sooooo shocked by the Red Wedding; we were planning for it. There were no surprises. It’s nice to be surprised again.
Considering the series is based on Brian Herbert's adaptations, rather than the original source material, I think it's much easier to just take everything the show gives us in stride as an original work. We don't need to worry about how accurate the show is to dune, because it was never actual dune to begin with.
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I saw the original Dune movie decades back. It was heavy on the visual symbology and imagery through out it. Left those non-Dune looking to see a sci fi flick. Lost bored and confused.
First few episodes of DP. Some of the imagery gave me some og Dune vibes. Which might not be a good thing for those looking to watch a sci fi series and pick Dune without knowing it's.... I hate this stupid word..... canon.
If there's canon.... self-appointed gatekeepers of the lore are never far off.
love your channel !
way too much CGI, and not enough practical effects.
I don't get the feeling of world-building
way too many people on set pieces talking, this is more like palace intrigue without the intrigue
where is the rest of the universe?
no action ...at all
writing quality is poor, this seems like something ABC produced for TV
I am a DUNE lunatic and I am really disappointed.
C-
just give me DUNE Misaiah, and please hurry.
@NerdCookies The canary in the coal mine for this show was that the original plan was for Delenuve to produce the show and direct the pilot. The fact that he withdrew his involvement and his name appears nowhere in the credits is a gigantic red flag that should loom heavily.
I really like it so far, but I HATE the stupid Lila character who died during the agony surving her purpose of letting the rest of the sisters know that Desmond Hart is something special and as guessed she is a horribly forced character liked so much for what reason? I'm going with diversity. Now she'll be the first to survive the agony so we HAVE to deal with the woke filler... I like the Emperors children, that's cool seeing how things work in the Dune world, obviously the Harkonans are very interesting and Travis Femmal is killing it. I'm invested But useless characters need to disappear
@@taylorburke5388 woke is such a stupid word to use. Plenty of other words you could use. Modern, different, forward thinking, dynamic, city folk, educated folk, etc
I seriously don't give a shirt what happens behind the camera.
Every show, ever made, has actors. I don't care who does what roles. If it's worth my time I'll watch it. If it isn't, I won't.
My biggest gripe with this show is the lack of any sense of pomp or ceremony in regards to the emperor. There's this bizarre sense that anyone can just wander into his private chambers for a talk, that Desmond is just freely wandering the palace, and that there's absolutely no security whatsoever. Having Valya just walk into the throne room while he's in the middle of an audience with no herald, no doorman no nothing. Where's the court? Where's the guards? The security chief? Why does it feel like he's the mayor of known space rather than the Emperor? Why exactly is he so weak a single member of the Landstraad can threaten him to his face? It's all so weird and dissonant.
This guy right here ☝🏼 gets it
meh, isn't the emperor a relatively new idea at this point? in American history, people treated Abraham Lincoln and the presidency very informally , big contrast to all the pomp and ceremony that came later for the office of the presidency
more of a plot hole than an issue with the world building, right?
Brian Herbert & Kevin J Anderson couldn't write themselves out of a wet paper bag.
Saw another comment saying they preferred the son’s work and got so confused. How could a misinterpreted, twisted version of dune be better than the original creator’s vision??
@@Hi-pl5rx because the BH and KJA forays into the dune universe don't require that the reader truly immerse themselves into the story and use their own minds to flesh out the subtle nuanced message of the writer. its all fluff and surface sparkle with no substance.
"Feels like I'm watching a CW young adult fantasy show." Thank you for putting into words what I've been struggling to verbalize, the tone and production quality is so off from scene-to-scene. One minute we're in Denis's vision of Dune with a dark atmospheric mood, then we whiplash to some terribly lit, cheesy nightclub sequence that feels like a totally different universe/show.
I did notice the emperor's kids are like supermodels, which threw me off. The nightclub, scenes, though...at first it felt odd, but when you think about it, of course there are night clubs in this universe. Why wouldn't there be? And in the show, it turns out it's really the setting of meetings for a rebellion, giving it more of a purpose.
But I do get what you're saying. I was thrown off at first.
_BIN.GO._ 👍
Nailed it.
Although I admittedly can't help but watch any broad-release Dune production that gets released - 😢 - the greatness and the grandness of the Dune universe (and its caliber of storytelling) DESERVE more than the almost typical, low-standard HBO soap opera treatment that it got. It deserves the highest of artistry in EVERY department, as quite likely the best epic/cosmic sci-fi story ever created.
The nightclub scenes do feel shoe-horned, like someone wanted an Atredies in a select number of episodes. Otherwise, I don't think that applies to the rest of it.
Preface: I am holding out hope for this show still.
However,
Something I love about the Dune books (Frank’s at least) is there is a lack in on page action I suppose, but each conversation between characters is almost like a duel where each person is trying to outsmart the other. Usually the duels are very subtle and if we didn’t have the thoughts of each character we might not understand what’s actually being said. The dialogue in this show is so far from that sort of thing that it’s hard to really see this as a Dune show. More like a show masquerading as Dune IP using factions and family names from Dune. I don’t think the Bene Jesserit would be the exact same 10k years ago, but they would surely be just as cold and calculating. As would every character nearly. The emperor being sort of a fool makes sense to me tho as he doesn’t necessarily need the same amount of cunning as other characters given he’s already in a place of power.
I'm equal parts hopeful and concerned. My wife and I are genuinely interested in the plot points, but I also am struggling to see how they're going to be able to satisfy each arc in the remaining episodes. My biggest fear is a massive cliffhanger and a second season that never comes. We shall see.
This has been the year of the witches, The Acolyte, Agatha All Along, Dune Prophecy and Wicked...
Noticing is ok as long as you don't say anything negative
"A bunch of people in rooms talking." This is most of dune
Yeah fair point but there is just something with tthe writing which makes certain exposition dumps feel weird.
They also talk outside and even in nature at times
So is 12 Angry Men, but that's full of tension even so
Everyone liked Dune: Part 2 better because of the constant action, though. But I agree that the books are a lot of talking, a lot of philosophical conversations. It's what I loved about them.
@@jello_cudgel9213 🤣 you made me laugh pretty hard with that one
I'm going to wait for the whole series to finish before I craft an opinion. I feel like these first 3 episodes are basically set up. That being said, if the action doesn't pick up rather quickly, I'd say the series is in trouble. Also, 6 episodes is way way way too few to even try to do a Dune series.
It is best to wait. Dune is slow and methodical. Some people will lose interest . If there is no payoff at the end, then it will fail.
Agreed, I know the FH books were basically talking head books and I love the story they told, but with a show there has to be a bit more action or visual tension. Also agreed that if they were only going to do six episodes they needed to be much longer.
The movies took it too far though, too much action and not nearly enough storytelling or respect for the lore.
Couldnt have said it better.
I feel like its setup, and for a 6 episode show, not sure if its the right decision.
especially if your goal is long running series with multiple seasons in the current media landscape.
but tbh am just happy to be in a dune world again, and I am enjoying the lore and flashbacks. the problem is I still kinda dont know what is the show about in way hahah. but I will wait for the whole arc to finish before crafting an opinion.
Also think the young tula and valya are doing a great job with the acting.
If you want action , go to action movies and not scifi.
i actually liked the first 3 episodes a lot.
Better than house of dragons...Valya's character is very well written
I find the use of the "voice" to be the biggest letdown. Valya goes from using it once in a panic primal call to get her brother to swim, to murder. I feel like it has become a gimmick. They should have drawn out the development of the skill gradually to show it progress. It also cheapened it to learn it's a skill she innately had, vice something that was the product of training and discipline. But my biggest gripe is that she only uses it one way... What is she gonna say when there's no knife handy? "TAKE OUT YOUR CAR KEYS?"
Lol great point.
Yep. Exactly what they did with the Force as well. Turned it into a gimmick. At this point, it's our fault if we're surprised/disappointed...
They will, it's clear that the makers wait for "the progress of voice use" when she will teach it to the princes Ynez (else it would feel boring because we've already have seen the voice lessons before). And frankly honest we all just want to see some Guild and Tleilaxu action, you don't have to be a Mentat to figure that one out.
@@Yarblocosifilitico absolutely. This is exactly like the force awakens. It's not heroic to just be born with something. That's not an achievement. That's not a story arch. That's just a 90degree upward trajectory.
@@LordShizzle say what you will about the D. Lynch adaptation of Dune, that dude had mentats, the guild, and a terrifying AF Vlad Harkonnen. New Dune MCU feels like a cologne commercial in comparison.
My wife puts down candy crush when it’s on, so there is hope.
that says a lot about who is the target audience here
The story and world of Dune is very high concept, so it's really best as a niche thing -- not a general audience experience at all. For a general audience to experience Dune is like sitting through philosophy class at school; it's going to strike most people as "boring." Dune was first released in 1965, and it was initially a poor showing. it gained a cult status from college-age kids that were in college between 1965 and early 70s, abouts. Try talking to people who were in school in those years, and ask them about Dune. It's an interesting experience. Dune touches down on a lot of themes that were important to 60s kids. Dune is an acquired taste -- trying to generalize it just diminishes it.
I generally agree with what you're saying. What bums me out, though, is that if it doesn't appeal to general audiences, it will not continue to be adapted. It has to make money for that to happen. So for me to get more Dune adaptations, people have to watch it and enjoy it. Very annoying. 😆
Agreed.
And only high artistry and a committed vision can bridge the two (the engaging, strategic chess of the political action; and the visionary, enthralling, larger-than-life action and world-building that Dune _does_ indeed still have and deserve _soooo_ much of). The well-done symbiosis of the two is what would make it achieve its proper epic standard... And compel audiences to not just show up, but sink their teeth into.
Feels like there was another 4-6 episodes that could have given us some more context and character growth. This 6 episode stuff is kinda strange especially with how much money these producers make
I'm glad you mentioned this. I thought it would be a minimum of 8 episodes but was hoping for 10.
My guess is budget was the reason.
I feel like I'm watching a completely different show from everyone reviewing this because I'm loving the show so far.
No seriously tho. I was thinking the same thing like I love this show and I want more than 6 episodes
Same here
Hear hear!
Meh
I question whether she read the books, the faults she first names about the show are the same criticism the books got when they came out. I really like the show so far. Of course the last 2 episodes will make or break it.
I have been wondering if Hart's mission isn't really to stop the Bene Gesserit, but to trick them into taking a path that will lead to the Kwisatz Haderach.
I'm waiting for the mentats.
Me too
Keep waiting. Wont happen for several seasons. Same for the spacing guild. And that's if they even include them at all.
@@reaper_exd7498 This aint getting another season
I too am waiting for the mentats but its unlikely.
I need a legit deep dive. I wanna know how the brain computers work! 😭
Nobody has really gotten the Bene Gesserit right. They weren't frumpy. They were beautiful, with doe-like eyes. Deadly ballerinas.They were purveyors of sex as control, so they were physically attractive. I imagine this aspect of the sisterhood would be politically incorrect.
Remember this is shortly after the start of the order. They are training to be truth sayers, not concubines. That probably comes along much later to help further the breeding program.
We live a post hagpocolytic western world. Fat and frumpy must be normalized. It's the only thing that makes it past the fat, frumpy screeners.
If I remember correctly. At one point in their history. The sex was better than any drug out there.
Sex as control? That's the Honored Matres, not the BG.
Not every Bene Gesserit was trained to be the same. And remember, this is only a few decades into their existence. By the time Paul is born, the Bene Gesserit are a force to be reckoned with and are nigh impossible to take out of the equation.
This is for sure getting season 2, no doubt
The name "Desmond Hart" sounds more like a character from Days of Our Lives than an epic sci-fi.
It sounds like a character from a smutty romance novel
Yeah as opposed to Paul and Duncan Idaho.
bro there is literally a character named Duncan Idaho (both names are cool af)
or WWE wrestler
Compared to Dune? Are you kidding me?
Jessica? Vladimir? Duncan Idaho?
The main character is named Paul FFS...
I think this show should have been about the three schools, the sisterhood, Mentats, and the spacing guild, the Emperor doing the the Emperor thing and the sisterhood working behind the scenes, Mentats doing their calculations and planning within plans, the spacing guild being weird, this show isn't weird enough,
I think they are setting up the next season for the Mentat storyline
@ericmatteson8888 I hope so, but it would have been better if they were in this season, working against each other and the sisterhood, the spacing guild and other houses
@@ericmatteson8888Don't mentats appear in the universe 1000 years after the date depicted here?
@@pixeljauntvr7774 nope. they were around already
@@Adamwofford It’s going to be. Read the novels. All of them.
Much of the dialogue in this show is just awful. The characters don’t have conversations so much as they monologue at one another. It’s been laughably bad at times. I’ve not read any reviews thus far, but I agree with most of those you cited here. My thought was that it has felt much like a poorly written CW series at times. Glad to hear I’m not the only one.
I plan to continue watching, but I am disappointed by the degree to which HBO has missed on this. The opportunity was there for a groundbreaking show, but instead we get wooden dialogue and warmed over tropes. I can’t imagine we’ll see a Season 2.
Very well said; and very spot on.
Although I admittedly can't help but watch any broad-release Dune production that gets released - 😢 - the greatness and the grandness of the Dune universe (and its caliber of storytelling) DESERVE more than the almost typical, low-standard HBO soap opera treatment that it got. It deserves the highest of artistry in EVERY department... as quite likely the best epic cosmic sci-fi story ever created, ever told.
It could be better, but considering what Disney / Amazon etc are offering wow could it have been a lot worse, I'm hoping the individual spin off series over time gain their legs exploring the different guilds and groups
Hm, I don't think we should be too hard on Dune Prophesy yet. At least the show takes itself seriously and it is not just a stupid sell out or disrespecting the IP to make politics or try to appeal only to a "modern audience" whatever that would be. I think it's only natural that a Dune show about the Bene Gesserit is low on action scenes - it should be about the plotting. The show looks quite nice and fits with Denis' visuals, good work! I agree that some of the younger characters seem mostly there as eye-candy so far, but a little bit of "guilty pleasure" is ok too, and hopefully it can give non-Dune-fans another reason to keep watching. Also, I really like all the stuff about the Butlerian Jihad, fits perfectly for today's world. Can't wait for the remaining episodes!
You put my thoughts into words far better than I could have.
I feel it is doing all those things. It's just that the setting naturally fits in that space
Women focused girl bosses. Secretly puppeting incompetent men.
But while other IP force and contort. Dune was already that.
The third episode was the best so far because we get to focus on the two sister and thier motivation.
Thier flashback should been the first episode of the show. Ending with Valya using the voice on Dorothea and the thirty year time skip.
Then episode 2 would be about the characters we got to know already navigating their current positions in life.
I like the show. I do believe 6 episodes are not enough but it is what it is. But I disagree, I think there is a lot of not fans who actually enjoy the series. So my conclusion is that the perception of this series is very divided and that is ok I guess.
In the books the sisters have surpassed human limits with incredible amount of self control and discipline and consider someone who can't control their emotions to not even be human. In the show they're a bunch of feeble nattering emotional dolts.
The Voice spontaneously happens to random people "because of evolution", not a result of intense training developed by the sisters.
It's so badly written it's amazing.
That's cuz the writers never read the books. They were woke college grads who thought OP space witches would be perfect for wokies.
there is nothing I hate more than when a story turns a hard earned skill into some inherent ability.
@@reaper_exd7498Define woke
This. Exactly what put a damper on the show for me.
@@ninshu6paths659 They did mention in the show it was an ability she had to learn over time to strengthen/perfect, and she was going to teach others. Plus, it didn't work on DH.
I see prequels within prequels
Agree with you totally in this. A small mini series about the spacing guild. Something totally not connected.
I can’t be bothered to care about this. I’ll covet my six books and leave it there
Agree across the board. I'm a fan of the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson books, and would have rather seen the Butlerian Jihad. It would have had more action and higher stakes, not to mention it's kind of an origin story for the hostility between the Atreides and Harkonnens. Instead they chose this time period and the Sisterhood because it would put women in the forefront. There's no good Dune story in this thus far. Yes, the production values are great, but I just watched the mini series (Dune and Children of Dune), which is also a bit of a slow burn with rock bottom production values, but found the whole series much more rewarding than just the 3 episodes I've seen of this.
I just don't think the broader public is interested in the denser Dune lore the way Dune fans are. I'm also extremely nervous about Villeneuve's Messiah. Not that he won't do an amazing job, but a) he's painted himself into a corner with certain story elements (as you have mentioned - Chani), and b) it's nothing like the first book/films. This is what happens when you let big corporations mess with epic franchises - they fuck em up (looking at you Amazon and your dreadful ROP).
I've never actually seen another fan of Brian and Kevin's not to mention the Mini Series. I love them all. I have 0 desire to watch this series though. I couldn't even bring myself to watch Dune part 2 because they changed Chani so much.
Yeah BH/KJA fan here also. While their first efforts were quite lack luster they definitely brought and expanded some interesting stories to the Dune Universe (Erasmus, Norma Cenva to mention a couple). They could have done a Norma Cenva series if they wanted to get their feet wet before tackling something as complex as the origins of the Sisterhood. The cameos from Norma Cenva coming into power could have been the seeds they needed to really gain an audience who would be interested in this series.
That is if they aren't going to turn Lila into a Norma type character, which will be a shame.
I don't think Hollywood has learned what to do with short seasons. They're not quite a mini-series but they aren't a full season and they just can't get the writing and pacing right. Sometimes if feels like the first six episodes of a slow building 20-episode season and they don't have that kind of time to screw around.
Because it's based on Brian Herbert and KJA's fanfictions, I don't allow myself to be drawn into any of the story, because my brain rejects nearly everything as wrong and anachronistic to the timeline established in the original books and the Dune Encyclopedia.
As a show for Dune Fans, we're split, along those who accept the works of Frank's son, and those who do not. They've chosen the son's side, and I'm not on that side...
As a show for a general audience, convoluted is a good word. As somebody with no frame of reference for who these characters are, and what situation the whole universe is in at this moment in time, because they're not the characters and events that I know from Frank's work, I find myself fitting more of the "general audience" category, than "Dune fan" section, and in this position, I feel it's lacking in world building, establishing relationships and stakes. It assumes you know the events of the extended universe, while ignoring the source material.
I'm in a "want to like it, but I don't" place, with it.
I'm digging it. Not a fan of Brian's books, this improves on his work. There are whole chapters in Frank's books where people just converse. It's philosophy, not action.
As someone who's had "Mentat" in my internet names since I was a teenager (before TH-cam existed), I clearly wish other aspects of the Dune world were being showcased. That being said, I'm honestly a little confused by the negative reception of this show. Three episodes in, I'm very interested (especially after episode 3!). I like the nods to the books and I like that the new and mysterious Desmond stuff and the {spoiler} under everyone's noses which Tula is {spoiler} while Lyla {spoiler}.... My wife is not a Dune fan (she enjoyed the Villeneuve movies well enough, but that's it). But, she's watching the show and asking me questions and forming theories....
It seems to me that many beloved sci-fi shows started a bit shaky and took time to develop (try watching Star Trek Next Gen's first season, or the first few episodes of New Who). I'm along for the ride and don't think people should judge much from 3 or 4 episodes. Give it a chance! 6 episodes is a teaser. If we get behind it, the writing team could have time to learn from their mistakes, bring in other big ideas (like Mentats), etc.
That being said, long and awkward sex scenes are using up precious episode time that could have been put to better use.
@@Mentat1231 THIS! my ONLY real issue so far is the unnecessary and protracted sex scenes !!!
Dang you must have been surprised to find Mentat01-Mentat1230 were taken.
@@PapaSnurp
😆
@@Mentat1231sex scenes and nudity are a long time favorite of HBO, so they are to be expected. But I agree, unnecessary. As to the show itself, I agree with you that it is much better than people are saying. I like it quite a lot.
The only character that seems like a sympathetic relatable character was the young Valya Harkonnen. The main timeline story needed a similar central focal character to bind all the other storylines, which themselves seem weak and have no connection to the main book events. I think this is all obvious to most people, not sure why it escaped the show runners-
I can guess that if they are focusing on Brian Herbert and KJA 's books, this will not likely be for me. I LOVE the legendarium of Dune; the first 5 books are some of favorite Science Fiction stories. Beyond that it's just not for me that's cool though, I hope those who enjoy it get what they are looking for out of the show.
I am not unhappy about this show. I am enjoying it. But I think that the actors are elevating the material. So far I would like a season 2.
I am very disapointed to be honest.
Agreed. I think it's pretty decent.
With what? This is just what I expected from a Dune show. It's not like the movies are any different.
A whole flashback episode for a 6 episode season ws stupid. Cant have filler and dont beed a backstory to the backstory
To me the development of the spacing guild should have been the series focus. Yet the history of the witches is quite interesting. Flash backs is just a sign of poor writing. Flash backs are is lazy.
Even as a hardcore Dune fan I find it very hard to keep watching this series, so I can only imagine normal folks.
The ambience feels like _Dune,_ but the writting feels like a mix of Hogwarts with scifi.
It's not a matter of _"any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishebly from magic",_ because:
- Firstly, we are actually suppose to be watching this thru the eyes of a declining - technologically speaking - society where the technological peak is long gone (where many roles of technology will be swapped by superhuman capabilities going forward... superhuman, not supernatural)
- Secondly because this is straightforwardly asking me to completely disregard Frank Herbert's (and even his son's) grounding of the franchise in physical phenomena and embrace _"magic"..._
Either that or disregard that any other answer besides magic is equally preposterous because it would need different stages of development of other agents and groups that shouldn't be as involved and developed at the time the series takes place, i.e. the face dancer hypothesis, nano-machines (when Frank Herbert wrote the first 3 books that term hadn't even be coined, that's why it's never mentioned or hinted such technology existed in this universe... and lets be fair, it doesn't exist in ours either except for the term.... so far at least), and even supernatural psychic powers (!!!!!!!!!!! **).
Or simply contradict future events (and I don't mean this earlier Gene Gesserit using Thinking Machines, that it's canon on Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson books, more precisely the _Sisterhood of Dune..._ yes, that was the initial name for this show as well).
Anyway, I have no problem with adaptations not following canon, in taking artistical liberties... I love the _Foundation_ (book) series, and I also love the tv show even thou the tv show adaptation takes enourmous artistical liberties with it. But it's still good, it still feels _Foundation,_ it's still enticing and engaging. Dune Prophecy, however, does not.
** and no, don't anyone dare to bring the Sorceresses of Rossak as an example of "magic", of supernatural powers... even their powers is grounded in physical phenomena (even if it's stretching to the limit the suspension of disbelief): the Sorceresses have the ability (genetic) to harness electrical currents, and discharge in their surranding area. They work as a biological EMP (and affecting biological beings in a very terminal way, frying the nervous system, including theirs). That's not magic, that's not psychic power, they are a mix of literal walking lighning rods, that picks up current, and capacitors or inductors and are able to discharge it at will (well, once and done). Is it hogwash? Sure, but there are creatures that do something similar (albeit not so catastrophically): electric eels for example.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the showrunners' portrayal of BG prophecy. I thought it was bizarre to show Paul being prophesied 10k years before his life, and that it contradicts Herbert's explanations of how their powers work
Kwisatz Haderach is a title, it could have been other person than Paul.
@@Cortesevasive regardless…. When they wrote this amateur script, they absolutely expected the audience to go “ooooo they’re talking about Paaaaaul”. Setting the story 10k years before Paul but right after the Butlerian Jihad was such an awful decision
You're so histrionic with your opinions. It's definitely not a failure already, time will tell. It is what it is though, still enjoy hearing your thoughts. Just wild to me to be so critical of it already. They'll definitely be more Dune content So hyped for that.
Its been a while... But wasnt the spice harvesting on Arrakis , the sisterhood/Bene Geserit and their abilities, the Landsraad, etc etc all developed multiple thousands of years AFTER the Butlerian Jihad?
There was no need for any of it when they had thinking machines.. but this show is set what? 120 years later? not long enough for any of this to develop to this level
This adaptation is treating Brian Herbert's works as cannon so no those things were developed in their infancy at towards the end of the butlerian jihad.
Im only watching because of Travis Fimmel and Mark Strong.
The first couple of lines from episode 3 sum up the writing. seller - "What do you want?" valya - "The usual."
Fans of the Dune books are a discerning bunch. I haven't seen it, but if that crowd has issues with this series, I think I'll pass. I so enjoyed the last three Herbert books, I don't want to spoil the afterglow.
I think the main issue is the 6 episodes, It needs at least 8 and 10 would be best.
It needed more of a "Raised by Wolves" kind of pace and tone. It shouldn't have jumped right to the sisterhood. The flashbacks in episode 3 should've been the entire season in greater detail.
My first introduction into Dune was the 2021 movie; never really heard of Dune until that. And I loved it. Part 2 was fantastic, but I think I prefer part 1. In that context, I'm loving the show. All of the lore and intrigue is fascinating. I'm digging the GOT in space vibe.
Part 1 was a lot more accurate to the book. Part 2 goes off the rails.
What I find most interesting about this show, despite it's disappointments, is that the story is touching down on something that had long puzzled me about FH's Dune. How do the Bene Gesserit know that generations of gene manipulation will result in a special man that can do all the things attributed to the Kwisatz Haderach? Where does the concept of a Kwisatz Haderach even come from? This show could be trying to show that the first Kwisatz Haderach came about accident or chance, ergo, the BG ought to be able to replicate it. So the Kwisatz Haderach is a thing that's happened before. I find that concept fascinating.
The GoT episode where they’re riding horses lost me completely. Thousands of years in the future on far flung planets, we find genetically unchanged horses on a planet that just happens to look like Westeros? Please.
I was 1/2 watching it and then I thought that I WAS watching GOT. it really messed me up.
I`m a due fan but this just bores me. Shame since now winter has come and I need something to watch and keep warm!
You could literally be talking about House of the Dragon. What has gotten in to HBO man.
The fact that they essentially just turned Valya into an X-Man mutant, where she “ discovers” she has the power of the voice because her brother was drowning, instant of practicing and refining the ability, really lost me…. Like come on 🙄
As an avid reader, I have mixed perceptions of the show. However, my non Dune fanatic wife has really enjoyed the show and found the last episode more engaging than the first two 🤷🏻♂️
I’m excited to see where it goes
Love your content !!❤
Haven’t seen it yet but I will probably watch it. (What can I say, I’m a DUNE geek)
But problem one is they went off the Bene Gesserit book.
Hint: Brian can’t write! I’m not sure if he’s even read his dad’s books.
Solution: some houses are heavily backed by the Bene Gesserit. Pick one or make up a house and have it fight over a mcguffin…say, don’t know…SPICE! The thing the entire universe revolves around. They don’t even have to control DUNE! Have them trying to influence smugglers. Or a shadow fight over a consignment of spice. Plenty of action there.
Miami vice state cops stumble on some smugglers and try to arrest them. Bad move, they have shields and trained by the sisters. 5 min action scene to start the show with a bang.
Have the smugglers talking. But in subtitles show what they’re actually saying to each other. Discussions within discussions. Wheels within wheels.
The smugglers idea is good. They could've even use Tuek, or some ancestor or him. Also, I wouldn't mind a show about the House of Gilmaz.
@@Yarblocosifilitico the kicker is it starts off with action and world building. This is a shield…this is why you don’t use a gun in the DUNE universe…this is a Bene Gesserit agent (not all of which are female) and this is what they can do if they cut lose. And why everyone is scared sh*tless of them. Combat and world building. Takes about 5min of screen time.
Also Spice is probably the best form of clandestine payment for anything. A briefcase of it could by a small moon.
And it’s usually shipped in vacuumed bricks. But break one of those down two small thumbnail sized vials and you’re good.
Add to that most all of the higher echelons of society are addicted to it (including the Bene Gesserit) and things get a might interesting.
I hate it. It can't decide where and when it takes place. Sometimes it feels like GOT (yes I know there is corelation), sometimes it feels like Star Wars and sometimes it just feels like a mixed salad of random ideas.
I disagree with you about criticizing it for the lack of action. Dune has always been a political thriller with a sci-fi coating. It tones down on action for philosophy and politics. It makes for great literature but a challenge to adapt live-action. I’m not saying Dune Prophecy is good though. It think it’s less deeper and less dramatic than it thinks it is
you can't sell these type of shows to the masses. if you want to make a niche show, sure go ahead, but HBO generally hopes for a bigger cake
besides the "philosophy" in it is so bad, and the conversations are so incredibly stupid, you can't sell this to anyone who likes serious scifi
nowhere in Frank Herbert's universe was there a fantasy-type 'magic'. desmond hart burning people alive with some kind of psychic power or telekinesis is like the 'weirding module' concept in Lynch's 1984 movie. same with the nightclub scenes, they don't fit in. meh.
other than that it is an interesting take on the dune universe's 'lore' - especially the early BG and Harkonnen history
Missed you on Quinn’s stream! Please come back.
I'll be back on in a couple of weeks!
@@LauraGS564 I did, don’t know what goes on in your head. Besides there was a third guy too. So I guess you didn’t see it all the way through…
We need you there every week ❤
Unfortunately, when it was mentioned the show would focus on the “sisterhood” my interest was killed. I assumed it would be another female centric girl boss show…the Benefit Gesserit provides the perfect vehicle/excuse to do it. I feel bad admitting my bias, but me, along with a huge portion of the population have been conditioned to think this way by Hollywood and their television/movie decisions. The girl boss has become a trope. Another Hollywood trope is telling instead of showing. They either think we’re too dumb to understand without telling us everything, or they don’t know how to show us visually. I got a little excited about the after watching another video you did, but after this one I think I’ll pass. You mentioned you felt they were trying to make the show epic…the lore of Dune is epic in itself. You have to work to mess that up. You also mentioned production problems, so that explains that. Keep reviewing if you have the stamina LOL…I really like your videos!🔥❤️🔥😁
I felt the Bene Gesserit was chosen as the focus of a Dune series because they are the most significant and long-lasting force in the books. Paul Atreides is a direct result of their manipulations. Even after Paul and his son defy them, reducing their power, they evolve and continue to be a force to be dealt with.
The movies didn't have time to explain everything about them. They did their best. I felt this show was meant to fill in the blanks, to make audiences understand the power, purpose, and significance of the sisterhood. It sheds light on the story in a way the movies didn't have time to do.
Don't assume everything is about politics. The TV and movie industry is about money.
I'm enjoying it. I've read all the novels and am not disappointed. Yet.
Cough cough Rings of Power cough cough
For real, though, the Brian/Kevin novels aren't good
Just make a show set in the Scattering
Its a shame because im frothing for more dune content but if its going to be like this id rather the show be cancelled.
The jury’s out as far as I’m concerned. This is one of those where you have to see everything before making a final judgment.
I went in not expecting much and not fully understanding the world of Dune and I’m hooked. Is way better than what I expected and it gets better by each episode to me. The only thing I don’t care too much for is Ynez and her friends and stuff but Desmond, Valya, etc. Yesss
I feel like the writing got the Rings of Power treatment, without the $1b announced budget. Like it's straining against its budget and format, wants to be epic and galaxy-spanning, with 7 plotlines, but just feels cluttered and ground-level.
I suspect that the story choice reflected the zeitgeist prior to everyone getting tired of girlbosses. Want to do a prequel?, well hey, those Bene G are utterly fascinating, let's do their origin!! Yeah, nah. We know they're ruthless asshles. Next. How about exploring a theme for everyone, like "How Did the Empire Survive without Thinking Machines??". That's interesting. And opens up all manner of intrigue with the Tleilaxu, the Spacing Guild, Mentats, and the rather dull Bene G. The factions and mythic principles are all there, you don't have to make up some bs Desmond Hart guy with a flaming migraine.
Note to Hollywood: Just because your characters are women, that doesn't make them interesting. They need to do, think, aspire, plot, sacrifice, self-sabotage, and triumph in interesting ways.
I figured out how to watch Dune Prophecy and make it really good. Anytime it shows a scene on the Benny Jesrit homeworld just skip it. It was actually really good then.
I'm thoroughly convinced that Frank Herbert's material is just not suitable to be portrayed on the little or the big screen. And we live in a western society that is choking on political and social ideology such that creativity is stifled.
So to have Frank Herbert's work portrayed in a way that is accurate to the source material, you've got to have visionary directors/screenwriters and talented character actors. I don't think we've gotten any of that from Denni Villeneuve In his movies or from this TV series. I'm not trying to say these things are bad. Don't take my opinion here the wrong way.
Creativity is stifled in the movie industry because the industry is by its very nature hugely risky. Tons of money has to be poured into these things, with no guarantee of profit. So the industry has become more and more risk averse. That's why we keep getting reboots, sequels, and stories based on established properties in other mediums.
I love that A24 movies are original stories. I watch them a lot.
@nav579 What you say is very true. I agree with it wholeheartedly. But I think you also have to add in to the fact that a lot of the creativity has been stifled with political and social ideology. This, along with what you said has greatly hampered the ability of the entertainment industry to operate successfully.
@@kwaki-serpi-niku Even this social ideology you speak of is done in the pursuit of profits....trying to appeal to a wider audience to get more butts in seats. I think the industry just didn't predict a politically motivated backlash against it.
@@nav579 Objectively, can we say that these movies that pursue these weird and culturally Marxist social messaging are in the pursuit of profit. We have too many examples of films like this that have been financial flops.
agreed, Villeneuve doesn't have a story to tell, he just likes cinematic shots. colors not so much
It's definitely not a rings of power bad, but it's also not dune movies good
Until now, it's mostly just ok
I was hyped for this show and I don't watch a lot of TV, it has been disappointing.
I’m enjoying it, but i can also see why most people would find it lacking. Pacing seems so off in each episode.
As a "hardcore Dune fan", I'm actually enjoying the show very much. I don't mind the "slowness" to be honest, I think if fits the source material fairly well. And as for the deviations/inconsistencies from the lore, I don't take the prequels too seriously anyway so they don't bother me too much. I totally agree there are some sections with a different (and crappy) tone, but I ignore them xD and yes some of the actors are meh....Oh well, after rings of power I am very happy with Dune Prophecy by comparison (pretty low bar I know...)
it's not just inconsistent with the prequel books, it throws the original lore out on the window too. what does it mean that you are a hardcore fan if anything is good?
geebus people this series isn't even done yet, SET UP TO FAIL????? Remember this is only 6 episodes.
My issue is that I'm 3 episodes in and I'm not sure who I should be rooting for. I have no characters to latch onto.
Wanna see some fun numbers?
Dune Prophecy: 1 season
-6 Episodes....
-13 Writers
-37 Producers
GoT: 8 seasons
-73 Episodes
-23 Writers
-57 Producers
In 6 pathetic episodes they have over half the amount of writers and producers that Game of Thrones accumulated in 8 seasons..lol.
Just looking at those figures alone & without watching a single second of an episode, we could have predicted that creative differences were going to doom the show. The Witcher suffered party from this.
Entirely too many cooks in the kitchen and clearly too many people that want to tell their own story(fanfiction) based on an established IP.
I think it's fun. I think it's better than Dennis Villanuevas Dune is bad. One slow episode the 3rd one is OK. It's not going to be one big battle. The only good thing about the new Dune movie was the ornithopter. Dune is not a coming of age story. It's about spice a drug that is vital to life in the Dune world. In an age of War on drugs it's a hard sell. There is no attempt at explaining folding space. Travis Fimal steals the show. The original Dune move with Sting is way better. HBO has produced great series. True Blood, Sopranos, Game of Thrones, Rome. HBO has lost that initial magic. I think you should give it a chance. I've read all the books, and love Dune.
It is confusing how they jump around in time, but beyond that I'm enjoying it thoroughly.
How is that confusing?
Its nowhere near as confusing as the Witcher's first season. At least you KNOW they are different time lines in Dune Prophecy. where as that other show you didn't until like episode 2/3 and it all could have been fixed with a subtitle of XX years earlier
@Cythrawl102 The Witcher timelines weren't even that confusing in the first place.
Everyone complaining about how slow it is hasn't read Chapterhouse yet
When I saw the title I said to myself "If you lose Nerd Cookies, you've lost.". I feel the same as you do. The CW-esque comment was spot on. I saw Dune in the theatre when it first came out. It was a space opera but somehow seemed foundational, not derivative, yet completely unique. Add in the fact that Buckaroo Bonzai, The Last Starfighter, and Robotech had come along and opened up many minds to the concept of "now for something completely different". All of that to say I have been a fan for a long time. I don't so much mind the deep dive they are trying to take, it's just too many storyline, locations, people, and these random time jumps. AppleTV's 'Foundation" suffers the same issues. In the end I will applaud their efforts and the quality of the product. I cannot imagine trying to take such a broad universe and tighten into a coherent story beam.
This show is not good. I will say that HBO has made this Game of Thrones in Space. They should have shown how the Sisterhood was formed, instead of going for the low hanging fruit of the House Harkonnen and House Atreides. Showing the voice and how it was created was lazy. I would have loved to see how the sisterhood mastered their skills.
The Penguin, for example, was the Game of Thrones of Gotham, however, there was love in the story telling, with Zero Batman. Why couldn't this be done with Dune Prophecy? So disappointed.
I was extremely hyped for new dune content but after the first three episodes I’m just wondering why… this? Why not tell a different story?
I genuinely don't understand the hate, especially when we're only halfway through the season. I'm a huge fan of the FH books and see very few glaring issues in the writing for this show. we're only a couple hundred years into the formation of the sisterhood, and people are expecting these characters to be just as badass and powerful as mothers taraza or odrade. at the end of the day, could the show be a bit better? always -- welcome to 2024 hollywood!
0:54 u say the potential COULD'VE drawn in new audiences, as if the show is already over, u know the entire story and can credibly say that
I am a hardcore Dune fan and I have 0 interest in this series. 1. it has way too much of Brian Herbert's vision in it. 2. Dune part 2 was a major let down for me so I have lost interest in anything other but Frank Herbert's novels.
In the raised by wolves show, travis somehow burns a guy alive. Somehow that actor has the same skill in dune prophecy. Ummm duh I
I love the show so far! Really hoping we’re getting a season two. I worry some content creators may be creating hateful opinions as click bait for views. I hope that’s not what’s happening here.
I’m one of the book readers who think they should’ve started at the beginning with the machine war, not skipping back and forth with flashbacks to tell multiple stories at the same time. Personally I don’t like flashbacks because it’s shows sloppy lazy poor script writing ability.
I totally agree with you about the exposition dumps but as someone who’s read all the books, this isn’t something new, Frank Herbert wins that award. He could go on for several chapters at a time with exposition dumps, sometimes using his own research papers as filler material in the books like he did with Arrakis ecology and used the research paper he done on beach grass and beach erosion back in the 1950s.
Frank also was very bad at giving complete histories of characters every time they were reintroduced complete with physical description and family tree details; it’s hard not to know all the Atreides, Carinos, and Harkonnens names and descriptions because it’s burned into your brain from so much repetition in all the books. There’s so much repetition and useless exposition that you could cut it out after the first mention of it and the books would be at least 50% shorter and no suffer any story damage.
As for this show it’s lackluster at best. Nothing against the performers but they don’t remind me of anything about the characters in the books. The Harkonnens are supposed to have red hair and have a widow’s peak hairline, these details are clearly in all the books regardless of author but the TV versions look like generic Targaryen bastards with dark hair instead.
I agree with you also about the CW teen romance vibe. I never watched CW because of that. I think it’s worse because they make the women as unattractive as possible in this show. I’ve seen photos of the actresses in street clothes and they look much different and much more attractive than these characters who desperately need a makeover!
You mentioned Harry Potter and I didn’t make that connection but I did get a good laugh out of it but not as good a laugh when I heard Young Valya use the Voice the first time I laughed my ass off because it was the most pathetic “Voice” ever like she had a hairball stuck in her throat.
This show will definitely confuse anyone who hasn’t read the books. It’s bad enough for me and I have read the books and have to refresh myself sometimes because so much is going on across different stories in different timelines.
Great video breakdown as always and looking forward to your next one. I apologize in advance for any typos, this iPhone is terrible at SWYPE and constantly autocorrects words that were previously confirmed. I miss my Windows Phone because it never had a autocorrect problem.
One more thing. This show takes place 10000 years before Paul's story line. So why is the technology the same, do you mean the tech had zero evolution in 10K years?
Yes, that's one of the core concepts of the setting.
I think the show is great for a show that had many delays and seemed like it would never see the light of day. They pulled it out and made it watchable.
But the show itself is rather mediocre. Production is great in some scenes then in others it looks like some WB show.
I'm sure HBO wouldn't mind to get out of this at a 10% loss on investment.
Gosh, expectations are SO unachievablely high these days, don't you think? It's really quite a wonder why studios bother making any new adapations or series at all... maybe that's what'll it come to in the end, they simply won't! Nothing's gonna be perfect, nor will it appeal to everyone, but is it so hard to try and find some enjoyment in what artists and creators are putting out there, and be a little sympathetic to their (perceived) mistakes, and imperfections? Is the expectation really that you'll be totally blown away at each episode, the amazing sets, writing, CGI, acting, budget, story/adaptation, etc., each and every time!? Not saying any opinions are invalid (but that's kinda my point)...
The one thing I appreciate is how the agony is - both explaining what happens as well as how they are depicting ego memories
Overall it is as you say - some interesting bits to Dune fandom but otherwise slow and plodding and you just don’t feel a connection
I would have loved to have seen something that explained how humans managed to figure out how to exist in a universe without thinking machines - how did humans figure out that spice can expand humanity, how did each faction decide to specialize, etc
Im glad pthers share my opinion. I couldn't make it fully through the first episode. It is awful. It's bad fan fiction. Every other reviewer laps it up, and so do other commentors. When i heard Sky were doing it i knew it would be awful.
2:02 um, have you read Dune? "people in a room, talking, there is no action" can describe the first six books 😅
not really the point. Dune fans may be fine with no action, but if you want a show to survive long term, you do need some action.
People in a room talking works in a book, and in a theatre play. For TV we expect more
That doesn't translate well to the screen...
Those conversations actually pit characters against each other in a clever and captivating way. I could listen to days worth of real Dune characters going back and forth with one another. Frank’s characters use words as weapons. These characters just say exactly what they’re thinking pretty much besides Desmond Hart, who seems to be by far the most Frank Herbert character in the show
Am I the only one who was flabbergasted by Javicco's overly chill response to the toy thinking machine? That was a massive show of weakness - I would've started a coup that evening, definitely not a corrino
Typical of showrunner's poor writing. They don't care about lore nor books fans. Its a waste of time keep hope about this writers can expand the universe or fill time-line gaps with interesting new material, stories and exiting characters. This is corroborated so many times. Same for Villeneuve's version of Dune, aesthetically impressive, but full of questionable story changes and missing important book's characters and factions. This media material must be watched with open mind, and try to "enjoy" it as much as possible (XD) as spinoffs or free adaptations inspired from the books, nothing less and nothing more.
As a long time Dune fan, I find Prophecy to be very watchable with even an enigmatic character in Hart, which I want to know more about.
8:05 - just that statement alone "mystery boxes" destroys any "excitement" i had. abrams has, single handedly, dismantled what was known as the "tease". i am exhausted of the long winded trope. world building, cinematics, dramatic flairs, and exposition does not replace story telling.
to be fair, i appreciate the struggles of this show being a return to a simpler idea of learning to tighten up the story vs grossly substituting "modern" messaging. i would rather failures connected to world building and exposition lol.
mostly, i am just saddened this show hasn't captured the beauty of the story. i would love a good show to invest into
“… feels like a CW-esque young adult fantasy show.” This is spot-on. I love a heavy dialogue, slow burn drama so long as the dialogue is meaningful and feels appropriate for the setting. This just feels … slow.
The problem is; if it was action packed and “exciting”, then the book fans would say it was made to appeal to the masses and not in the spirit of the source material and hate on it. If it is talky and slow building, folks say it doesn’t appeal to the masses and hate on it. We live in an era where everyone really is a critic, and that’s not always a good thing. I’m a Dune hardcore and I am enjoying the show, especially because it is a new story and I have no idea where it is going. This is the first time since my first exposure to Dune as a 12 year old in the theater in 1984 that I have been able to sit and watch a Dune production and NOT know what was going to happen. My wife is a recent Dune convert and we are loving the show together. Discussing plots and possible theories, etc… we never even had that during the Game of Thrones heyday as we had read this books. Everyone was sooooo shocked by the Red Wedding; we were planning for it. There were no surprises. It’s nice to be surprised again.
Considering the series is based on Brian Herbert's adaptations, rather than the original source material, I think it's much easier to just take everything the show gives us in stride as an original work. We don't need to worry about how accurate the show is to dune, because it was never actual dune to begin with.