The Case For Universal Health Regeneration - Overwatch 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
- Weird audio issues making me sound really high at times...
Timestamps:
• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:16 The Original Tank Problem
• 5:34 Lack of Recourse Amongst Non-Healing Heroes
• 8:37 Dilemma of Hybrid Support Heroes
• 12:57 Support Role Passive
• 15:31 Demonstrating the Universal Health Regeneration
• 17:31 Opening the Support Hero Design Space
• 21:33 Conclusion
References:
• • Overwatch 2 Developer ...
• • [NEW HERO - NOW PLAYAB...
• • Overwatch 2 Animated S... - เกม
I see your point, but you're kinda wrong, at least in your argumentation.
1) Support doesn't " = healing". It's true the support role is the only part supposed to reliably regenerate your allies' health, tho primarily it's the margin of your team required to flexibly shift the dynamic of a fight from 3+2 vs 3+2 to 4+1 or even 5. It can be thought of as trading both teams' resources advantageously for your team.
2)No matter what hero you play, "performing healing" isn't "your first priority". Your first priority is keeping the composition balance of 3+2 5 for bigger percentage of time. This can be done by juggling your enemies' focus, spying, sometimes even assasinating or keeping the other support alive. (This is almost always* the right play because resources required to reliably threaten e.g. mercy is enough to trade them efficiently for just other support healing.; *-assuming you yourself are not fighting for life, in which case real evaluation of chance of saving mercy is needed.)
Giving every hero out-of-combat self-regeneration would shift meta tremendously towards more tanks or would invalidate supports' ability to fight off flanking threaths, including win-conditions of all such duels. (e.g. it takes exactly 3 ana hits to kill a cree. Recovering as little as 1hp during the duel would put all of Ana's effort at such disadvantage completely futile.)
+ Come on, if cree gets into such position with less than extra 25hp he has he may aswell stop pretending he should be dead already, thrown nade downwards and respawn like everyone else, lol.
Stating above as Masters support, Ana/Kiriko/Bap/Mercy player.
1) The video isn't arguing in favor of the "Support = Healer" design philosophy, it's just a reflection of the underlying expectation of such from the developers and the community. If anything, it's more akin to shining a light on the flaws of this overall design philosophy and expectation altogether.
2) I actually agree that the first priority of not just Support heroes, but all heroes and all players, are to win the 5v5 engagement by any and all means necessary, both offensively and defensively, where every hero can secure kills and can peel and be peeled for, DPS Tank or Support. The video isn't arguing that Support heroes should just be healbots, but that Support players are expected to be healbots, where this expectation is derived from the Support role's near monopoly on healing as a mechanic, and that this expectation can contradict the hero fantasies and the full breadth of hybrid Support hero capacities such as in the case of Moira and Lucio. It then leads towards toxicity against Support players that don't fall under the mold of being a healbot, justifiably or not, which as much as it may not be a balance issue, but it would lead to (and is currently the case) the Support role being the queue bottleneck for the lack of players willing to sign up for such as gameplay experience, in the same way that Tanks were arguably pretty well balanced by the end of OW1 but were the least popular role by a huge margin due to the frustrations associated with the Tank gameplay experience, something which the developers saw as an issue that warranted a full revamp of the game format altogether.
Regarding concerns of tremendous meta shifts, the Support role (and likely the whole cast) would require adjustments to facilitate such a change.
We're seeing a good amount of comments regarding over-sustain (not your comment) that were not raised when the Support role passive was first introduced, despite the role already having some of the most survivable heroes in the game (Moira, Lucio, now Kiriko). In my personal observations:
• The power of out-of-combat healing is highly overblown in the meta discussions, as we have not seen major Support meta shifts as a causal consequence of the Support role passive (Moira's still lacks utility, Lucio is still played for his speed boost, Kiriko for Suzu).
• Most arguments against out-of-combat self regeneration would doubly apply against the Support role passive, because the Support roster holds the overwhelming amount of healing resources in the game, as well some of the most survivable heroes in the entire roster. However we are not seeing any significant pushback against the Support role passive. Instead we're seeing balance changes to accommodate the role passive and there is no pushback against such balancing adjustments.
It is discussed in the last chapter of the video that the current power budgets of Support heroes are inclined towards healing centric abilities to fulfill the design philosophy of "Support = Healer", and that if universal self regeneration was applied, we could see the designs of Support heroes (existing and beyond) shift away from constant healing and towards other methods of peeling, utilities and combat proficiencies, which would include tools and ability reworks to address Support VS flanker matchups. This would actually tackle rather than exacerbate the concern of hero breakpoints being constantly broken, as what's being advocated here is to shift healing away from a mechanic that Support kits are passively vomiting out as of currently (Healing Ofuda, Inspire etc.), and towards something more selective (playmaking) or moderate that only triggers out of combat, and as of the video's demonstration takes significantly longer than the current Support role passive to trigger.
And lastly to address the McCassiCree pointer, this isn't a meta discussion/"skill issue" video, but a topic on the gameplay experience of players subject to current gameplay mechanics. I would agree that the optimal thing to do in this case is to reset the situation, ideally via a suicide method to prevent staggering and for enemy players to not earn additional ultimate charge. However this isn't the kind of gameplay prospect that would have people signing up for; it is neither "fun" nor intuitive to tell players to kill themselves to optimize their game plan, in the same way an Overwatch 1 Tank player could understand their role in taking all the heat of the enemy's crowd control ability resources and not find it a pleasant gameplay experience, and this is precisely the kind of awkward and frustrating experience that led to the Tank queue bottleneck right till the end of Overwatch 1, and is currently the boat that the Support role is sailing on.
I am too sleepy to read this but.. I love seeing genuine effort and engagement in community discourse. This is what I love about gaming aside from the games themselves. Mentally workshopping and sharing ideas
@@zanbot6842 Idk your rank but i dont think you are looking for higher ranks POV on supports (supp). at high diamond/masters (thats where i play so i cant really go upper, because i have no experience) the supports are the target, if you have a supp of position or a dps of position you will be targeting the supp. Supps having these amount of healing source balances the fact they are also the role with less damage output. If you cant kill at least you are less killable. The heros that survive the most are kiriko, mercy and lucio, the others kinda just die if the tank dies (unless they just run away, like a ana that is far away and sees the tank and dps dying and just goes back to spawn).
Supps role is to keep the alive and help overall (well ofc every roles job is to help, but the supps are often the ones that end up finishing some players mostly the flaking ones ). Keeping alive is different from healing, but healing helps and is a big part of the role. thats why lower ranks think that supp=healer. Taking away this huge part from their role is making the role useless. Is like giving every hero a ability to tank dmg. It would increase supps frustration, awkwardness and helplessness.
In these cree cenario, he would be killed, yes, but it wouldn't mean that lucio and moira are playing badly or not doing their job. It probably means that the comp line is bad. Thats why synergy is important and can be seen has throwing (its less important in lower ranks than in higher ranks. Its most important at a pro level). Every supp can heal, but doesnt mean its meant to do it. Lucio is a great exemple. If a Lucio just sticks with heal passive is not using the hero to its full potential. I also think we need more supps whom main objective is not to heal, but that doesnt mean that they shouldnt heal. Why? because the problem that you showed. if lucio couldnt heal, kiriko couldnt go punish that low s76 out of position(for exemple).
I think you missed your point because you dont see ow2 with the correct eyes. I feel that you see it as a team deathmatch with objectives and its not like that, can feel like it but it is not.
@@zanbot6842 What about widow though? She is already very problematic in OW2 since we lost an off tank to pressure her or an extra shield to follow behind that doesn't instantly evaporate. This completely invalidates poking her out with little chip damage you can do on heroes like mei ice, mcassidy shots, ashe shots, sym balls, torb nails etc etc.. She already doesn't interact with most people in the game 90% of the time now and poking her out wouldn't be worth it at all if she doesn't even have to really reposition to keep farming. I don't see this going well in that scenario at all since she can one shot you from an extremely safe distance while any damage you can do to her with 99% of the heroes would be meaningless in getting her out of a power position since she can just hide or crouch for a bit and heal it back.
I do love how parts of the community can actually have an argument without saying you stupid wish all parts would learn this subbing for this
Bro predicted the future
I was wondering why Orisa's barrier looked like Ramattra's, but then I realized the heroes were using Overwatch 2 skins and everything suddenly clicked.
You found a smart way of visualising it my dude 👍
I love playing self sustaining heroes bc of what you mentioned. As a support main who loved playing sym and the ideas of sombra and echo as the original supports they were sound so awesome. Imagine a support turning the fight by stealing a pulse bomb or shuting down an ult in a way thats not sleep dart. Ah but one can dream
Supports supporting their teams, a dream
@@vivelespatat2670 old sym with shield gen 😪
this is like a solid gold 2 take
That’s why I alway mained Soldier (and the hability to run ahah)
@@CryptidOath- all I did was reference echo and sombra being supports and my enjoyment of self sustain? Support is my most played role so Im used to being able to sustain myself in the fight too, thats why I like characters in the other two roles that have the same capability. I am a plat player who's peak was diamond and I can admit Im a casual player but whats wrong with being a casual player? I dont have my whole life to dedicate to this game, im not trying to go pro, I just enjoy playing this game when I have the free time. Literally most of the playerbase is casual both since most people have other things to do but also bc the competitive side is barely supported
Regarding the Cassidy example, I think the lessons to learn are to regard HP as a resource you save to fall back with as well as to advance with, and respect pressure from other team.
If you do have too little health to press the attack or fall back to health packs, and support is unavailable, the correct recourse is to peek out for one last grenade or shot, and reset to spawn, which is supposed to be a bitter pill, because if you didn't respect pressure and save enough hp to fall back with, you already screwed up.
However, the "heal creep" within the support roster suggests that devs intend for those harsh and unintuitive lessons to be optional until you get out of Bronze and have some hope of climbing the ranks. People just get stuck in Silver clinging to reliance on healbots instead.
I was about to type this also, the video feels like a qp worrier complaining about his silver teammates who don't want to do what they have been doing in comp, and have gone into qp to have fun. skill issue, go play call of duty if you want a normal game, this is overwatch with one shots, rez, shields, invisibility, immortality, flight, dragons, sentient hampter, time travel, a robot rebellion's, railguns, big and small hammers, sleep-darts, annoying homing nades, and Winton, not a normal fps. and it also feels like this guy has been playing for a long time, how dose he not know this?
@@staplesock5549 The frustration and awkwardness is real though - unless it's like GM and the team is on Ball-Sombra-Tracer, most viable team comps rely on a "Main Healer", and the Support roster is small enough without the pressure against being allowed to play an "Off Healer".
@@staplesock5549 He does know, he clearly knows very well. He's simply addressing what he believes is a design flaw. That flaw is most apparent in lower skill levels. Someone who can discuss the meta of the game at this level is not in silver. It's valuable to discuss ways that the meta can be changed, especially in regards to role passives since they're relatively new. It's also healthy to recognize any awkardness in gameplay, regardless of which skill levels see it. The conclusion of that conversation might be that yes, that is an intended part of the game, but it's wrong to dismiss the conversation as "complaining". It's a mature discussion of game design, one that you're clearly too immature to understand the nuances of.
@@val26874hence I think, why they are adding 2 more supports before any other heroes
@@evancoberley2650 there are literal game devs of overwatch who are silver, u can be silver and discuss the meta especially if u watch other people play the game
As a support main, the passive regen is one of the few things I've really liked about Overwatch 2. And I can see the argument for extending it to other characters beyond supports. But I imagine in practice, this could make for infinite fights. People stepping away for a few moments to heal up, along with support healing, could make eliminations really difficult, and probably just create a sniper meta. Some of the frustration you mention might be addressable with map design tweaks to introduce more mini health packs, perhaps closer to common combat areas. Some of the support frustration might be addressable with Blizzard actually doing something to train players to use cover. Why there aren't practice ranges to teach and encourage core skills Blizzard expects players to have is very discouraging to me.
This is not a simple problem to solve, and I don't quite agree with your conclusion, but the quality of your video was excellent and I appreciate your argument. It is worth the effort to try to address this frustration. =)
Great comment but I imagine with the weight lifted off shoulders, it means more DPS power instead, also need to account for the demonstration they used had it activate slower for non supports, which is quite a lot of time not getting hit at all, but it could be something different as well, my immediate thought was just slower regeneration.
also spam meta could be a thing, junkrat deals a mean damage and doesnt even need a line of sight, basically whatever hits hard, gets into the meta
This could be an incentive to git gud on aim practice. So people that couldnt do consistent damage would realize they need to improve (cause no enemy is dying).
I think this would also incentivise dps player to pick one shot heroes (hanzo/widow), where if you are consistent with headshot you get great value.
Personally I wouldn't like playing all my matches on and/or against said heroes, so idk what would be the lesser evil.
I doubt it would lead to infinite fights. The support passive takes an eternity to kick in when you really need it to.
not quite. you see nothing will really change. there is no such thing as an infinite fight, what you're describing is a pre-fight/poke-phase which have one purpose and one purpose only: building ultimates, known to close/end fights. it's not like tank players or dps players will be less aggressive, in fact it incentivizes MORE aggression and playmaking, because they aren't bound to certain positioning.
let me ask you this. would you say that the support role passive makes them unkillable? or find that they drag out every fight? no. and that becomes more evident in high level play, when engagements/fights happen so quickly.
support players still die, they still get dove, they still get punished for bad positioning, they still get out-aimed, they still get marked/tracked, they still get countered. all the role passive did, was minimize awkwardness and hopelessness (video goes in depth) within the support role. it was a quality of life change, that expanded the possibilities of different playstyles/moments. so why would that not apply to the rest of the roles?
people can't always just "step away" for healing. what makes you think they will not get punished/chased? (as supports STLL experience). oh, they get support heals stacked on top of that? play that scenario in your head. when would chasing a dps/tank that has gone behind total cover and is with their supports EVER be the right play to make? role passive or not, if you make that mistake that is on you.
overwatch is a turn-based, wave-esque, team game. contrary to popular belief, there ARE win conditions or correct plays to make in every single game. these will not just go away because the dps/tank can gradually heal after 2 seconds of not taking damage.
This is an interesting argument, but the Cassidy scenario was significantly undercut in my perception by the fact that he’s literally hiding out next to a healthpack.
Story of my life. DPS begging for healing when I’m running across the map from spawn when they’re RIGHT NEXT TO A HEALTH PACK LMFAO
Almost every time it's presented there's projectiles and bullets flying around each side, good fuckin luck getting that health pack lol
Bro, I was thinking the same thing. lol
Who's here after it was announced that Tanks and DPS will also be getting a nerfed version of the support passive in the first Director's Take of 2024?
I am! Let's see how it pans out. I have always been interested in this idea.
Yeah, i was very annoyed with the community when they all got upset over the announcement
I personally have been wanting this since i started playing OW
I love the way the game is now. Dps not healing themselves creates strategy. In the Cassidy example I could teleport with kiriko, fade with Moira, ping and throw a brig pack, toss a bap immo, throw an Ana grenade etc.
You didn't understand his point I think
In the scenario your support heroes are occupied by one thing or another (in this case trying to make plays)
It's not that the support doesn't want to heal you but they can't reach you because of reasons I.e. getting flanked, respawning, too far away to heal you, taking cover, get dived, taking heat and need cover
Healing is easy, giving heals to people far away is hard
This is OW2 son, you HAVE to DPS as support for reddit gold
Btw the issue that supports don't heal thair dps is an low elo issue. Becaurse no one in low elo is playing well or well in thair role. And this fine. If they getting better they climb and getting better support players only just a skill issue
Devs watched this video lol, at least the devs are taking a step in the right direction.
First, I really like your editing style as well as how you setup the ingame scenarios well to create a story. Truly an inspiration in my book.
Second, As a OW Veteran and Masters Support Player, there are things I like and dislike about your argumentation.
What I predominately like is the idea that having some sort of universal health regeneration would free up Supports from obligatory healing duties which can sometimes become tedious if not boring.
Take Ana as an example. Ana can get far more value from timing Anti-nades with the aggression/pressure of your team, or sleep dart crucial ability/ult usage of the enemy, or even putting 2 shots on a squishy to force them to back off/enable a pick of your DPS compared to shooting your own tank all day. For Ana, there is nothing as rewarding as these instances, and the more you're able to pull these things off, even if they're not direct fight wins and just forces the enemy to take a quick break as to not die; the more games you are able to win as you enable your teammates and arguable prevent healing from being required in the first place.
Or Kiriko, who's design philosophy is this Flanker-style support who in theory just needs to land 1 Kunai to drop the HP of the enemy squishy enough that your co-flanker can easily burst them down. Or in practical gameplay, force, say an enemy Ana, to use her critical abilities which then opens up the fight for your teammates who you can then instantly teleport back to in order to start the fight.
Both of these instances are arguably what makes these Support heroes far more unique and valuable than the basics of just healing, and having a Universal Health Regeneration system would really free this up a lot more if your teammates are smart enough to put themselves in position where they can remove the enemy pressure from themselves.
But...
The things I dislike about your argumentation are numerous in and off itself. I'll focus on these three:
1) "Supports=Healers"
2) Lessons the Cassidy can INDEED learn.
3) Ramification to the tempo of the game.
Firstly, the Support community at large has for years now been arguing that Supports are named "Support" because they aren't the same as Healers. The reasons why are too numerous for this YT comment however a lot of it has to do with Supports being better viewed as "enablers" rather than the limited scope of "healers". Yes, you do make a good argument why the perception that "Supports=Healers" is there. All Supports can and debatably "must" have healing with the state of the game. Even Top 500 Korean Moira Players who go full on 2v1 against the enemy backline (see Krow's recent Moira VoD analysis) do occasionally still heal. However, providing healing is not going to create enough value to win games the higher one climbs and may not enable one's teammates as much as one may think. A lot of the time you need to essentially treat damage as indirect healing in order to provide the most value to the game.
Second, I wont defend the TikTok Moira or Reddit Lucio as having both makes essentially both the Supports rather... silly in their assessment of contribution to a Ranked environment, but there are things Cassidy can and indeed should learn from. No he doesn't necessarily need to swap to self-sustaining heroes nor never leave the side of a health pack; he can just time his aggression/value. To briefly elaborate, when the Tank or even the Supports in this example are diverting attention; Cassidy can start contributing to the fight 0.5 seconds later to dish out heavy pressure if not pick someone off when that happens. In the King's Row example; instead of trapping himself by the statue, he could do a safer rotation to the hotel and then time his engagement a little after the enemy's attention has been averted to preferably your Tank but in this example the Supports as well as they are essentially averting the enemy's attention resource to themselves and away from Cassidy.
Third, probably the best counter argument to having a Universal Health Regeneration in OW is that it would substantially slow the tempo of the game.
See, in order to even get value from such a passive, you need to play in a way that gives you the option to disengage from a fight long enough for the passive to kick in. This will slow the pace of a fight down which is not to every player's liking. I know players who straight up does not like having an Ana in their games be it allied or foe. They've argued that Ana's kit slows the game down too much, with examples being the ones I gave above: a good nade opportunity will force the enemy to back off to safety for the duration as to not be killed, and Ana's rotation options for ideal positioning are slower than other Support heroes due to how much further the backline may shift compared to the frontline. I personally don't have an issue and even prefer slower paced matches where being methodical is more key, but other players may enjoy the more action packed setting of faster paced games where mistakes are more harshly punished. Having a Universal Health Regen would decisively incentivize players to play a more slow tempo.
There are more things I do not necessarily like in your argumentation, such as implying that the DPS Moira isn't actually contributing or that Symmetra was removed from Support simply due to her not healing, but I digress on these things for the sake of not making this YT comment longer than it is.
I love your well thought out and and elaborate counter response rather than just going "shut up gold player!!"
Mind elaborating on the Symm thing if you want? I'm interested in what you meant.
@@rexspecificallyredrex64rem73 Sure.
In Zanbot's argumentation for why Support=Healer in OW, he mentioned that this design philosophy was reinforced/cemented when Symmetra was moved from Support to DPS because "she didn't heal". To understand why this isn't the case, let's compare Symmetra now with Symmetra back before she was made a Damage hero then, which was the 2016 rework.
I'm going to leave out some details that aren't quite relevant but Symmetra right now is able to send out 3 turrets across the map fairly often, with a temporary, destructible ranged TP as her secondary ability which the entire team can use theoretically anywhere on the battlefield with the interact button. Back before she was moved to Damage, she had 6 individually weaker turrets that could only be placed at short range and very infrequently, with a oval shaped barrier ability would fly forwards like modern Symmetra's turrets do until it broke upon contact with map geometry. Her teleporter was an option for her ultimate and could only be used from spawn to where the teleporter exit was placed.
Given that what makes Symmetra useful is her ability to place turrets in advantageous positions, as well as use teleporters to get herself or her teammates semi-instantly to advantageous positions; her previous state barely had any value, let alone one to replace Supports with. Her 2016 Rework came at a point in time where "Builders" was its own sub-category of the game but they simply did not fit into the more fast paced nature of OW. Torb being the other builder also got his Rework which made him actually somewhat viable.
And to really hammer in why lack of healing was not the issue in the days of Support Symmetra; the original definition of "Flex Support" for the competitive/eSports scene in the pre-rolelock days of the game, was a Support that could play heroes that were not in the Support role. Soldier: 76, Roadhog, Bastion, Torbjörn, Sombra, and I believe Mei as well, could all be used by the original Flex Supports in a supportive manner. Heck, just before Role Queue; one of the only counters to GOATs was Quad DPS with Wrecking Ball and Mercy. I believe Flex Supports in that composition would play Soldier: 76.
TL:DR, Symmetra was not made a Damage hero because she did not heal. There were plenty of heroes used for the 2nd Support slot which did not have healing to the team. No, she was made a Damage hero because her value as a hero in general was laughably bad and required way too much setup which could not be afforded in the game. To keep her hero identity while making her viable for gameplay; she had to be reworked with qualities that made her better suited as a Damage Hero rather than as a Support.
To go off on a tangent, personally I would like for Blizzard to try and experiment with non-healing Supports. The game now has enough Supports that can handle the primary healing of the team while also offering other value that having a non-healing support that offers good value to trade in the lack of secondary "healing" is very much possible. While it is a different game with different rules, League of Legends does it well where they have 3 archetypes for Supports, with Enchanters, Engagers, and Poke Supports, with only a subsect of Enchanters offering any sort of healing, and usually weak ones compared to OW. Trying out non-healing supports for OW would do a lot tap into the huge array of Supportive playstyles that's available which OW barely touches upon. This is also why I do not subscribe to Zanbot's idea that Blizzard is running out of Support design options.
@@BlazeLycan About your thoughts on non healing supports, I think there would be an issue, at least with the current damage and healing numbers in the game.
I think for a non healing support to be viable, what they do would have to be extremely powerful, and 'outvalue' the healing that another support that could be used in place of them would provide.
I personally do not like the idea of having zen discord orb levels of strong abilities put into a hero's kit just to negate the disadvantage of not providing healing. And even then, zen still does have the ability to heal.
How much stronger would a non healing support's abilities be?
A good place to direct on the 2nd point of mcree in regards to OW spilo's dps positioning vid or a general competitive shooter vid like CS:GO talking about angles and peeking.
To reinforce your support point. The best examples are ana anti, lucio speed, and brigs shield bash+whip. Using biotic nade for healing is the most basic way to use it and obvious low risk play but also low reward but in a team fight it can stop a tanks aggression they have to either out play and high chance of loss or pull back and play safe.
Lucio more often than not speed boost is great. It's arguably more beneficial for you to move faster as it's harder for the enemy to hit you, you can escape more quickly, and it's easier to hit a slower target than you(your opponent). And hell moving in fast and killing fast is a very good high end high execution strat.
Brig whipshot displaces anyone and can kill squishies that are running and over extended, shield bash is a mobility tool and her shield can stop damage and intimidate those without teams or proper tools to fight her, and is great in team comps with JQ.
@@adeeshadeegala5900 Non-healing doesn't automatically mean "more damage." Kiriko's Suzu is a good example, it's main value isn't the 50 healing it does, it's the invulnerability and cleansing effect. If Kiriko had been designed without healing, and had Suzu and another supportive ability instead, she'd still be a great support without healing and without damage boost. Another hero to look at is Lucio, as you don't choose him for his healing but for his speed boost and map control. He can heal, but that's not his primary focus, and honestly his healing aura could probably be replaced with a non-healing ability and he'd still be just as viable.
There are also dps with team-healing abilities (namely Soldier and Sombra), who would likely see more play in comps with non-healing supports to help supplement the healing. There's also the fact that we don't have any characters that can provide other forms of health like armor or shields (though a few can provide overhealth), which we haven't seen since OW1. I doubt we'll see a real equivalent of Torb's armor packs or Sym's shield gen (especially since just having those two together was probably more powerful than two supports), but a support who doesn't heal but can provide additional types of health like that would be extremely useful.
POV:
Lifeweaver and Zen are your healers.
So basically, being out of position and over-aggression shouldn't be punished and outplaying your opponent shouldn't be rewarded?
Simply make the regeneration start only after 10, 15 secs. If your team can’t kill someone out of position that quickly, it’s an equitable skill issue.
Well genji can stop spamming heal me when doing a 1 v 5 😂 but yeah I agree with what you said
Ikr, even in the example we can see how unfair its way he's saying. Soldier is playing WITH HIS SUPPORT on his side and attacking, while Cole and moira are playing on their own... But they arent getting any advance for playing the game THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED
While moira and Cassidy can avoid playing their roles and still hold on the fight.
So you’re saying that LITERALLY EVEY OTHER GAME WITH HEALTH REGEN doesn’t punish aggression then?
@@4444Oracle if u look at majority of the popular PVP games atm, barely any of them have universal passive regen within their game. The concept looks good on paper but it creates more problems than it does benefits. The lack of punishment on over extenders, the overwhelming amount of healing output with support and the never ending fights would make this game incredibly frustrating. Overwatch 2’s main focus was supposed to limit static fights and create more of a faster flow, passive healing across the board would just make games go on forever.
Well well well :) I thought of this video the moment they announced the season 9 health regen for all heroes. I am happy you made this video.
Hi, I'm back cuz Blizzard is officially making this change offical. You win.
Really well-produced video that was clearly ahead of its time. Nice work. Glad this led some people to your channel.
This is a quite clean video. I understand the point and where you headed with it. It is radical but the same time kinda interesting to see if they could pull something like it off, the game dynamic for tank player would also change too.
the thing about universal passive healing is that it rewards over-extending and not playing with your team. “Why would I go back to my Lúcio, Mercy, or Bap, when I can sit in a corner and gain heals safely while they fight the other team?”
It’s not a good decision.
Especially this,this game needs more incentive for teamplay not less
I feel like this whole argument boils down to the game feeling bad if your supports suck. Any good support will be able to keep a balance of damage, healing, and whatever utility they provide. Running into this issue is like having a sniper genji on your team. The person isn't pulling their weight and the whole team suffers for it. Honestly I think if you're seeing this issue in your games, it can be resolved by pressing X. I promise you any implementation of giving all characters health regeneration in this game is going to become a nightmare for any extended team fights and you're going to only get even more aggressive supports.
The game is more fun with more aggressive play though, generally. The universal self healing enables a more aggressive playstyle by damage and tank players, and means that a support doesn't have to stay glued to their healing ability to be playing well. This wouldn't lower the skill ceiling of the game, but it would lower the skill floor a bit, making things more accessible to novice players
I play Xbox so x is to reload for me lol. Also to respawn and switch characters. I don't know what x does on pc.
@@tiredbunnyy On PC it's the default keybinding for "I need healing"
yes but u know the difference? a sniper genji throwing your game doesn't affect how much u can do.
a support not healing DOES affect how much u as an individual player can do.
@@christiancasaverdepertica1802 I think it would be the exact polar opposite. You'd likely see 3 team comps form around a single meta which would just be miserable.
The first and obviously strongest in this situation would be a poke/sniper comp designed to just one shot step behind a wall too heal and then do it again. Poke would become so exponentially more powerful than everything else in the least fun and slowest way possible.
Then I can imagine 2 responses to this.
GOATS 3.0 where you just go Lucio, Brig, Mei, Rein and rush the unholy fuck out of everything in sight. Where this would become even less fun though, is that in an effort to survive the snipers and use the regen you would have this comp designed around alternating shields and mei walls to naturally heal and then intermittently just ramming through anything with speed boost and AoE heals. Live long enough to get a little space and a pick, put up the shields and walls, repeat.
Lastly would obviously be some version of dive to kill the snipers, which then gives you the impossibly irritating reality of a team who can dive in, dive out to various hiding spots, heal alone or with their supports, and then just dive again and again.
Ultimately it just ends up being these games that will either be ridiculously fucking long, like much longer than anything we see now or it will be the Dive & Poke taking turns to obliterate each other and be invincible.
The game is already very aggressive with a good balance of needing to peel back for regrouping and heals and we have seen what happens when the game shifts into it's absolutely most aggressive form. It's just GOATS, even if it's not the original GOATS it would be a close enough variant. Constant, never ending brawls or frustrating long range one shots at every moment just is not fun.
For example Paladins does this, it works wonders but their support characters have healing on cooldown and that same healing can be countered by reducing it thanks to cauterize, that’s why every character has healing out of combat.
In order to do this in OW it would take so much revamping and reworks it would be crazy.
This guy is on to something as a support main I feel the tank role has a monopoly on high hp characters. I need mercy to have 600hp.
Fr its not fair/s
And the dps role has a monopoly on strong damage abilities. Give mercy bullets Cassidy damage 😤😤😤
Yes, I would also need this change to Mercy's HP to be represented by the thiccness of her character model. Perhaps they should get an architect to change it.
Any lucio main who played in beta knows how much fun the support role passive was without having to switch off of speed. They nerfed his self healing obviously for something less OP but that was a ton of fun for me. It makes sense why reddit lucio'ing seems so much more fun than being a normal dps
I feel like this change would make heroes like Zen, Brig, and Lucio a lot better to play. With them, in most circumstances, you need one of the other 5 supports to be alive and healing to have enough heals for the team fight. Sure, you can heal enough to keep the DPS up, but it's not enough to keep most tanks up.
So a good thing,if your main healer dies you should struggle
I am so sorry your videos don't get the views they deserve. I look forward to the day that one of your videos blow up.
This is the one
loved the video, your editing is amazing!
Last thing u need is a Cassidy that regens and saves a 1 v 2
If you lose a 1 v 2 to a Cassidy who was basically dead skill issue why not run to where he's hiding behind and try to finish him off
You’re getting your wish granted
awkwardness, frustration and helplessness
This is something I’m seeing a lot in the overwatch community the mentality that if my support isn’t healing at all times they’re throwing but the way I see it is “I can’t need healing if there’s no one to damage me in the first place” in other words, a support doesn’t need to heal bot to keep you safe. A Lucio that can annoy the enemy Moira to the point where she’s can’t even play the game is much for valuable than a mercy that’s just gonna get one tapped by said widow maker.
i understand where you’re coming from, but this would basically force us into longer team fights since people would hide behind a shield or step away and start regen, it would make killing people extremely hard and make the already problematic sniper meta into a downright nightmare because now they are the only ones that can actually kill their targets quickly, widow could take damage, disappear for a few seconds and comeback to destroy your backline way quicker than if she needed supports or health packs
it would also mean a way worst experience for supports since their dps doesnt need them, there are more chances for supports to be left their own devices. sombra, tracer, genji, they could just run away for a while and regen and go back in way quicker than before. taking away the supports attention once again.
1 thing Moira orb isn’t the only thing that’s soul focus is dealing dmg. Discord orb is that. Even tho it doesn’t deal dmg it enables dmg.
but discord orb is supporting your team with a debuff to the enemy team, moira's orb it's just raw damage, i think the devs also don't like It bc they tried to rework her with the damage debuff at ow 2 beta
it's also the same with mercy's damage buff, you are buffing your team with damage
6 months later and now I think this is much more relevant than ever
First well edited video about overwatch I have seen
What's funny is that they gave supports a "skittish" passive for the support role in the April fools mode, which I think is actually a great Idea. The original DPS role passive was a mess because movement is EXTREMELY powerful, and buffing the base speed in beta 1 or in a snowbally way at launch, was busted. But the skittish effect is a "reactive" speed boost since it is a low hp trigger, like a last stand. It can help heroes like Ana and Zen with the survivability issue that ALWAYS plagues them AND gives room to make self regen a universal passive like the Beta 2 DPS passive(The ult charge maintains after swap) Allowing for, not just aggressive, but calculated plays, AND opens up the support roster to have comps that they normally wouldn't like the infamous Mercy/Lucio since they can actually use their utility without either not being able to the entire time since their main issue as a duo is that they can only choose heal or util. If 1 is utiling, the other HAS to heal, and while it may still hard to run them together, it lifts the burden a bit off both as you mention in your video. Amazing video btw, hopefully this video gets around and gets people talking :D
Very nice editing and video format. I don't agree with your point, at least not in simple regen. Maybe more healthpack locations? But you did a very good job of presenting the case that makes me ponder on it.
youtube recommendations are actually working, good vid
You make a really great argument. Great video.
Why is this the best OverWatch video I have seen?
I love the comedic genius of your presentation
I watch all your videos. 10/10 content 🙏
I wasn't expecting this topic, as I expected the seemingly hinted at Hanzo video instead, nor let alone today, considering the month gap between previous uploads, but after further inspection this would 100% be a positive change and your videos are both well worded, visually beautiful even when just reusing already present graphics, and very thoughtful and I love your content.
Imagine a Dva, Ball, Winston, Tracer, or Genji with this. They could sit in a corner while their body spits out bullets without any issue.
Universal passive healing is something I’ve really appreciated in my time spent with Dirty Bomb and Gundam Evolution. Its a great way to give players more uptime in fights and less time supports have to focus on healing. With this type of system, it can help supports focus on doing both damage and healing. Would be interesting to see this be a thing for OW2 and see if it makes for a QoL change.
The best part about support mercs in DB is that they didn't have to be healing the whole time. Aura had a health station that can be a game changer for positioning and keeping allies healthy when they're shot at, then that aura would have to freedom to go shoot or revive someone when the HS does the job.
@@Zipperskull_ I still play DB and GE on occasion, too bad DB’s development ended, but it was great while it lasted. I wonder if we’ll get a stationary healer like Aura for Overwatch 2.
Super underrated, great vid man
Excellent concept, and excellent presentation!
I'd love to try this. Yes, in the mccassidy example, he is very much out of position for many reasons. Healthpack awareness is part of what can make good positioning in OW. But in this example, he is also cut off from his team (it seems?) which means in a situation where the supports can't save him even if they wanted to (well, I guess Moira could throw a heal orb toward the side of the statue he's behind and hope for the best). I'm a support main, and this is the kind of situation that just fills me with despair. I feel powerless to help my teammate, and aware they will likely blame me, because after all - he's low hp spamming "need heals" for quite a while!
I started fooling around on Paladins recently with friends, and it has universal health regeneration, so it's a topic I've been thinking about. This is a very timely upload for me!
Also a support main here and I don’t really like the idea of universal regen. I’d be damned if I have to KEEP fighting the flanking Reaper, Junkrat, and Sym on FULL health. The lack of regen is what forces people to make smart decisions and makes going straight for supports a risky play. If they get infinite regen, sure we’d have a better chance to rely on being in the battle, but we likely wouldn’t even GET to the battle if they use that regen to camp the spawn, stay in the back line and simply disappear, or just run wherever they may and die.
Universal self regen only hurts supports imo. The pacing would be slower for fights and it’d ALSO encourage a decentralized play style where teammates go in all directions and would STILL blame you for not healing them from across the map. The current “consult health packs or support for healing” works because of you over extend, you’re likely to get punished. It’s not only risk vs reward for dps and tanks, but forcing them to THINK. If they got regen, they’d be more reckless than they are now.
Finally, what I dislike about his reasoning especially in the first part of the video was the whole “it doesn’t fulfill the fantasy” talk. Tanks SHOULDNT be indestructible juggernauts without their squad. Their point is to draw the fight around them and initiate/control battles, not charge into the backline unable to be killed and destroy everyone.
@@gromplin when did he say that tanks should be juggernauts? He said that Orissa just wasn't playable without Sigma and it made her feel incredibly bad to play, so they changed her to be more self sustainable.
The quality of your videos is incredible! keep up the content creation, your channel will grow over time, I look forward to seeing that journey
As someone who mainly plays support it has always been weird for me to play Kiriko who is probably one of my favorite characters to play. When you headshot with her kunai it feels great but the healing is slow and half the time you have to suzu them when they are at like half health because even though they had the white glow they can still die while it hits them.
This is the most elaborated and convoluted "Support diff" someone has ever written after a frustrating match I've ever seen.
I love this idea, I'll completely behind it.
your video feels like the longer and video essay version of Marblr and I love it!
I think that healing is a core aspect of the Support category and that every Support should have a way to heal their team. But giving DPS/Tank heroes a weaker version of the Support passive would definitely free up a greater design space around Supports to be less focused on healing and thus not locked into feeling like that's all they're allowed to do. Now obviously I'm no game dev but making it so that non-support characters heal say 5 hps after 2.5 seconds would be a good amount. Not so much healing as to make Tanks/DPS fully self-sustaining, but enough to enable them to wait in cover just long enough for them to run out and get a healthpack or to an ally Support without dying on sight. Ofc in this case the game, especially the characters outside of the Support category who can already selfheal, would need to be heavily rebalanced so that it doesn't become too difficult to kill anyone.
Tanks should definitely not have passive healing as they are strong enough already but dps should have a weaker version of passive healing
@@ValidEarYTthis is the way
What about healing to a certain percentage? Like DPS and Tanks can only heal to half of their total health by themselves
Tanks dont need the passive, but giving dps a weaker and slower self heal would definitely be good.
Give DPS a kill to heal passive, encourages aggressiveness to survive by killing your opponent.
Been loving this type of content coming from your channel lately. I'm excited to see more
I stand by every word of this video
This is essentially the mobility argument revamped for the healing passive
i agree 100% with this video ... thank u this is wut i been saying since playing ow2
Great video. However I'd suggest 1 more key aspect of the regen passive.
At least for Tanks/DPS, make it so that they also need to be within 20m range of a teammate. (Regardless of if a wall is in the way).
This would make it so that teammates tend to group up more, peel for Supports more, and try to give their Supports more LOS to heal them.
I like this version most
This is an interesting extra aspect that still punishes bad positioning. It would also have to be slow or take an eternity to start up so genji and tracer aren't near impossible to kill.
Yes! This would be so fun to go against widows, hanzos, pharahs, torbs and sombras. Big brain idea.
How does this channel not have a 100k+ subs ..
The quality is off the charts and content is I would argue even better than most huge ow channels ..
Wishing you the best of luck ~
Keep up the good work my man you deserve lots of attention and you'll get it eventually
HOTTER TAKE: Have more supports play like lucio and zen where they can fire while still healing. To do this you could make the tickets be kinda like they show in anime’s and the are stuck to the forehead of a teammate to heal them for 3-4 seconds. It sounds like zen yes but the difference is that she could put one on each teammate
So Jenos from Paladins.
Ohhh I like the use of the seals on the forehead :)!!!
"I'm not gonna be mercyyyyy I'm not gonna be any kind of support" 🎶
Well, to defend your case Paladins has had that mechanic for a long time. Their implementation of it requires you to be out of combat for a while (something akin to 10 sec), but it gets you to full fast. Maybe tanks could not have it, or they could take a longer time for the self heal to proc.
Love the editing
I personally agree. I often swap to characters like Mei and Roadhog when I feel that I'm not receiving the heal I need to be enabled. I think this mechanic, even just a small amount, would go a long way. I think it might be time to reevaluate health packs as well.
Keep the great content up 👍 definitely deserve more subs
First of all, this is a really great video, found it through reddit.
I don't like how there are so few small-scale healing utilities in the game, like biotic field on Soldier. Why did Bastion have to lose the self-healing when, in many compositions, bastion typically demands more healing than other damage characters?
I think all characters gaining a self-heal will improve the game, but I also think it is only the first step to better balance which would involve more role overlap in currently role-specific utility.
And with global health regen, they can also remove health packs. Alowing for more interesting map usage, and remove the frustration of a fight being won or lost depending on wether the healthpack was on coldown or not
This would give tanks and dps more reasons to ditch their supports. Not to mention make shields practically obsolete. Edit: Shield health, not barriers.
Depends on how its made but it lifts the burden off both support players and the devs designing them.
It’s not like those players would protect their supports anyway. It would give them less reason to spam i need healing and means supports wouldn’t have to babysit them.
@@4444Oracle Those players have to learn to peal. The game shouldn't be made easier for bad players.
The solution is literally just making it so dps / tank can Regen to like 50% hp naturally that way the support role is still VERY impactful but the game would at least be somewhat playable if they were doing their worse than they should be
TLDR: "it's annoying to have to rely on teammates in a team game. The devs should change it so no teamwork is necessary because it's unfair to dps to have to use critical thinking skills" this is the typa stuff u only hear in silver and bronze lobbies lol
Great strawman.
If the devs really wanted to emphasize teamwork, they would've kept the group/party finder in-game.
Having an overreliance on team play in a game where the default is to be matched up with strangers and where comms are off by default is a ludicrously bad idea.
@Bruhification fetish bro idk what to tell u, overwatch is a team game by design. It's not really an over reliance on teamwork cuz the entire point is teamwork. U can say overwatch is a shit game for bad matchmaking or being a team game, but everyone who's playing above silver knows it's a team game.
Also the devs said they're working on the lfg system but they had to redesign it for overwatch 2 so that's kinda a moot point.
@@samfoord943 The system they had previously was perfectly functional, is there any reason they removed it entirely?
0:31 i like how the slightly highlighted heroes a either regenerating shields or has some semblance of heal (reaper)
this aged well
yes paladins has this it is so nice I genuinely think out of combat healing systems should be in the game as sneaking out of fights your team loses still usually results in you death because health pack placements are so obtuse and restricted
A few thing to note, universal health regeneration can encourage a camping or spawncamping playstyle.
For example a widow/hanzo/ashe on a forward off angle can hide behind cover after taking chip damage, while still holding a decent angle - without having to give up the angle entirely and retreat for a health pack or using up healing resources. This could make aggressive widows feel even more oppressive to play against, on maps like Havana, Rialto or Junkertown.
Another hero which would significantly benefit from passive regen is tracer - since she wouldn't after to spend time moving to a small health pack after taking 30-40 dmg. She can just go on a long flank, or get behind and try to set up a spawn camp instead while her health regens. Often you could annoy a backline obsessed tracer player by deliberately eating the health packs she needs.
Note also players would also start tickling enemies with tap fire at long ranges to deny passive regen, and poke comps would likely becomes more predominant because of this.
Certain dive comps which focus on assassinating both enemy healers and then using attrition to wear down the remaining players won't be as effective.
IMO if there was a universal health regen it would need to start no sooner than 10s, and have a very slow regen of no more than 15hps for dps heroes. Otherwise the pace of Overwatch would come to crawl. Overwatch is best when the time to kill is medium - that is faster than MOBAs but slower than Counterstrike/Valorant.
And if it's that slow it's basically pointless
Actually, another game has done this feature really well, the whole garden warfare series has instated a self-healing at the same rate as any support character except it is limited to healing up to 50% health. By putting the cap on any player but supports, it gave they're supports a unique benefit and role in the game. Maybe they could play around with that in OverWatch but but to a lesser or greater degree since garden warfare has a much higher amount of players in every team.
Paladins has a feature where you slowly heal over time when you're out of combat. I'm not exactly sure how well that would work in overwatch but it's an interesting thought.
Bravo sir, its coming in s9
I could get behind a limited out of combat regen for non-supports. Say, you regenerate while you are below 50hp until you reach 50hp, which would be enough to tide you over to a health pack or reposition so your supports can heal you safely.
We may as well just make every character reload faster after an elimination and have 30% knockback and sleep resistance, because those make the game feel better too.
What I'm saying is that support being the role that is built around healing is fine because the other roles are designed around things that the other heroes can't do as well. Cassidy could get a shield too, because tank heroes have a monopoly on defensive abilities, but that wouldn't make much sense either, because it just doesn't fit the intended structure of the game. Each role does things the others can't, and that's fine.
And yes, I am aware all characters have the capacity to do damage, but not all characters have the ability to do nearly as much damage as the damage role can.
I've heard they are going to implement this in the game in season 9
with the added addition of lifeweaver we have counted to 4 now but in a worse way with the weapon swap
Lifeweaver even further supports this, having a low healing output and compensating for it with strong arbility's that offer utility
I love Lifeweavers kit so much and the utility it provides.
Wifebeater has a 50 H/s on average with his flower heal, thats 10 more than zenyatta than can just leave it on someone and forget about it.
He has such bad healing that to play him optimally you require a support with lots of healing to compensate. Like ana.
You still have the problem of one guy heal botting and the other guy heal botting the healbot.
Great video!
One of the things in here that spoke to me is the whole "what are they supposed to do in situations where their supports aren't healing" Im ngl there have been times in my ranked games where I've chosen Sombra (who despite being my 2nd favorite dps), not because I wanted play her but because she can essentially heal herself. I dont like soldier 76 but there have been games where I get ignored by my supports so much ive considered picking him up so I can heal myself. One time I even asked the other dps to go soldier so I could actually get some healing, and in that match the tank was complaining about not getting healed either so it wasnt even just me.
Crazy how this could and should be tested for awhile in it's own mode. And see how good or bad it affects the game
Wouldn't it be better to have better movement abilities for dps so they could get those health packs or relocate themselves? And have a better UI to show where health packs are, or should be?
Speaking about the TikTok/Reddit supports (Moira main myself). Two common misconceptions people have is (from where a lot of ire arises): playing with your team does not mean playing in a single unit, it means engaging simultaneously to apply pressure; DPS Moiras can be "doing their own thing" and still get team-wide value if that thing involves distracting enemies and forcing cooldowns while the rest of the team is pushing choke, engaging tank from the front, etc. By distracting the enemy and forcing cooldowns (possibly even getting a pick), Moira is baiting aggression onto herself, thereby mitigating damage that could be directed onto the tank or DPS instead. This is analogous to "preventative medicine" compared to "treatment of existing diseases" and ties into the second misconception: "healing" is not just repairing health already lost, it's mitigating damage that could have been unleashed on your team in the ways described above. In this sense, many more heroes (primarily tanks) can mitigate damage that would otherwise hurt or kill team mates. DPS, though, are largely powerless. I think DPS would benefit the most from a passive that restores health over time, while tanks might want more shield health (like ball).
Seeing how much the support passive liberated supports to make more aggressive plays with their utility, I think giving some health regeneration to all roles would make game play better for every role, but especially for supports who could have less of their kits designed for healing/direct mitigation and more about utility and damage. The real issue though lies not in the supports' monopoly over direct healing, but in the fact that supports *must* have some form of healing because the TTK is so low; for example if your supports run brig and zen, as a rein main you are delegated to just shield botting (or swapping tanks) because the healing is too low to sustain you in-combat, and any iteration of a regeneration passive for tanks would not be enough. In order for any sort of passive healing to have an impact, the healing has to be significant enough so that the downtime necessary to regenerate health is comparable to the amount of time it takes to lose it. This means a fundamental change to TTK has to happen, particularly for long-range combat. Sweeping changes would have to made to all the characters and this merits a much longer discussion.
I believe I understand the point you’re trying to make which is supports can be more than just healers and this idea would be further supported if everyone had passive healing. I honestly think this could be a interesting experiential mode in arcade to gather data. Though I would have to say I think it should be a slightly nerfed from the support passive to prevent a flanker meta and reaper passive would also have to be adjusted probably. I think a good way to remedy this would be maybe more minis and a few more Megas health packs and maybe some map redesign adding more pieces of cover. If this concept did get applied I think we would start seeing more dps like supports with solo carry potential it would be interesting.
Only thing I would be afraid of is how this change would play out in high level play where every advantage is used. I say it’s at least worth an experimental mode try if that could happen.
I definitely agree with this!!! The video game Paladins is a PERFECT example (that I can think of lol) that has this system, and it works REALLY well, anyone can heal themselves as long as they are "out of combat"/not attacking nor getting attacked by an enemy after a set duration of time which I believe is 3 seconds? It makes healing much easier and it makes it easier to heal the tanks since the squishies can heal themselves! Sure, sometimes people ask for healing/spam it, but it's mainly when they are getting into fights and dying by themselves expecting the healer to be with them and only them, idk, something like that.
Well communicated point
I think the self heal of other roles should cap at 50% health. This allows someone who barely lost a 1v1 in certain common situations to still get value as long as someone follows up before they get to a health pack/healer
The game Paladins has this feature. There also aren’t health packs on any maps. What’s the point of them when you can take cover until you heal up naturally or a support character does it, then get back to fighting, rinse and repeat? On top of that, each hero has 3 different ways to play. For example, my favorite character to play, Seris, has a play style that allows her to focus on healing from far away by making her channeled healing ability pump healing faster at a much further range, she can gain more max health by getting kills in a life, or she can focus more on her crowd control ability which stuns foes and heals her for a varying amount depending on how much she hit with her primary fire within a timeframe. Heroes in that game also have about 10x as much health as those in OW/OW2. There’s the opposite end of the spectrum in TF2, also, which is balanced around health and ammo packs and two classes having healing capabilities, one far more focused around it than the other while the other is focused more on defense and holding a position and able to provide ammo, another necessary resource. Playing around a health pack in that game can give you an obvious advantage in a fight as your health can pop back up by quite a bit, depending on the matchup, allowing you to win. Positioning yourself near even a medium health and ammo pack set, you can win many more engagements.
This would also help with the amount of ramdom/unintentional damage from things like Moira or Junkart balls causing people to lose half their health on the way to the objective. Bungie saw this problem in FPS games 22 years ago and added regenerative shields in Halo. Give everyone the health passive or a small shield, and it will iron out a few problem the developer created for themselves.
u r now entering the algorithm
Would def be appreciated in mystery heroes.
You need more views dude. You have a new subscriber.
It's a good essay. But I I personally like the fact that my healing is there just to keep my team alive during the teamfight and being able to contribute myself other then being a heal bot. It takes skill to know when to heal and when to do damage as a support. Too much healing is not fun because no one dies, and having play making for support players is a good thing to keep the role entertaining. Making regen to all is a good-false idea. Like DPS role passive at the start, it's good for some characters but quickly overpowered for others. Give Genji, Soldier and Wrecking ball with even 1 heal per second and I can assure you that it's going to be some toxic shit. Paladin did it from the start and balanced characters and maps around it. If you want a change like that, you're asking for a different game my friend. Maybe if we can address some of the issues coming from some level-design choices still in the game, it could be beneficial for the health of some matches. If you don't agree with me, that's ok, just wanted to share my point of view. But remember, always thanks you're supports ! Even if they are not doing a great job. Bad games happens sometimes and I'm sure everyone is trying there best, even if this is not their day. Have a nice one 😊
I heavily disagree, if we want to fix the over reliance on healers, this is the way to go.
The obvious solution is to either readjust those heroes to scale with everyone else, or to just not let everyone have it.
Also as a wrecking ball main what are you talking about, if even just using the idea of healing over time needing a longer time span than supports, the wrecking ball would either have had a health pack or got healed by then, with the new shield HP in particular, this doesn't mean much.
Also Soldier already could heal,
I absolutely see where you're going.
but I'd argue characters that become oppressive because of this should have been handled regardless, tell me who would have been a problem without listing a character that should get changed anyways like Sojourn, most times they already had self healing capabilities like Roadhog, and maybe Soldier since you already listed him.
@@rexspecificallyredrex64rem73 I picked those characters because they could be oppressive with self-heal. Soldier makes his DPS opressif by his movement. He can travel the map easily with his sprint and can take many positions rapidly, so that he can shutdown enemies from unexpected places. He do have his heal station, but he has to stay within the area of his station to heal himself, making it a downtime to his movement. Being able to run to another location while having your hp going back up during the travel is a huge support for many flankers and roamers, with the kit of the characters that we have today. So in order to make this work, you'll have to adapt every kit of every character in the game. But after doing that, is Overwatch still gonna be Overwatch with this ?
Like Overwatch 2 is nothing like Overwatch 1 in term of feel and pace, I not close to the idea, since there is so many design choice that I like and hate in both games. The concept of self-heal and to remove this over reliance on healing is cool but tricky.
y'all, he never specified that the self-heal had to be the exact same as the support passive. He actually says otherwise in the video. He just uses it as an example.