I have exactly the same machine, down to every specification. I think this was a nice introductory video, one I would have appreciated three years ago when I was obsessed about table saws and which one to buy. You spent a lot of time on the dimensions and the space requirements. I have a _way_ smaller workshop space and I've been able to make it work. For me, the main attractions for the sliding table saw were: (1) Safety. You use a slider differently. Instead of standing directly behind the blade, and in the path of any kickback, you stand to the side and away from kickback. Moreover, there is no need to get your hands near to the blade. If you find yourself doing so, you're doing something wrong. For small pieces, you can make or buy a Fritz & Franz jig which pinches small pieces when running the wood through the blade. (A F&F jig is also really useful for rip cuts on narrow pieces.) (2) Precision. This machine is probably the cheapest machine you can buy that has precision better than wood deserves. If you get a few 1-2-3 machinist blocks, you can dial in the scales to less than a mm. The precision also extends to the cross cutting ability on this machine. I dialed mine in so that error is evenly distributed around zero. (I'm a statistician and did replicate cuts using the 5 cut method.) This means that you can count on 90 degree cuts really being 90 degrees. Finally (3) Crosscutting: I was used to the idea of a normal North American style table saw. In fact, I started my research with the idea of getting a Saw Stop saw. But, then I started to think about the things I would need to make in order to use the saw to its fullest potential. Minimally a crosscut sled. If you think about it, it's silly to think that you need to make a bunch of jigs to use a saw to its potential. This saw, out of the box, can cross cut like nothing you've ever seen. It's a dream! Bedrosian sells an excellent Fritz & Franz jig. Ramon Valdez makes zero clearance inserts for this machine.
I purchased a Felder K700S which has a 9' slide nearly 10 years ago and cannot imagine ever working without it. And for the record, mine is an 1,100 sq ft basement shop.
I have had your enthusiasm for sliders for the last 20 years. I started with a Laguna TSS and now have a Format 4 kappa 400 x-motion. They are such a joy to use. Excited that some of the "influencers" are finally coming around the the light!
I have the FELDER K700S…. Which I got because it seemed the safest option (even vs the Sawstop). As you demonstrate - You can hold an 8x4 sheet (portrait or landscape) on the sliding table with the fence and a single clamp and never be within feet of the blade, or at the other end of the scale you can cut 1/4 inch off a 1 inch long dowel using the Fritz & Franz jig also without coming within feet of the blade….. and all without the need for a push stick because you are always so far from the blade
I bought the same saw. LOVE IT! There was certainly a learning curve for me after nearly 40 years of using a Powermatic Model 66. I’ve kept the Powermatic for long rips of solid woods. The Felder now does 90 percent of my cutting work.
As long as you have $6000 to drop on a tablesaw instead of putting that $$$ into a commercial planner +, big commercial bandsaw which = ripping inexpensive lumber saving you BIGGGG $$$$$, Sure, go ahead buy a big expensive table saw which is superior 100%, but one has SO many other big costs before pursuing this massive upgrade expense. Such as Dust Evac, router tables and bits, clamps clamps and more clamps etc. Next would be cost of making a finishing ONLY shop with hanging racks and tables + radiant floor heating and air filtration system etc. This saw would be the LAST thing I would purchase as a prospective wood worker. Always in back of mind to get if I have lots of $$$ to drop on a new tool, but......... Something to drool over when all the REAL tools, infrastructure has been purchased and paid off. If I were a rich man, la la la da daa dadda da dum, If I were a ...
Love it, love it, love it….!!!! I love seeing people wrap their heads around a slider. You are 100% correct saying you will never go back to a traditional saw. Please let everyone know about the riving knife, brings an element of safety that you do not get with anything else. I used a big SCMI for the last 12 years in a commercial setting and it was the most satisfying tool I have ever used! A great deal of my work was with lumber although one would think it’s mainly for sheet goods. Once you re-train yourself from pushing everything between the fence and blade everything opens up! Love it
Glad to see another promotion for a slider video. We are a commercial cabinet shop, so we have multiple Martin brand sliding saws and would never use a "cabinet type" saw. We fixture most things on the carriage for best precision results etc. I have a Robland combo machine at my house, for personal use.
Great review, thanks for doing the work involved in making this video. I have a Hammer B3 that I custom ordered in 2010, so that I could have the 51” slider with outrigger. The B3 has the tilting spindle shaper in it which I use a lot as I mostly make solid wood furniture. The outrigger on mine spends most of the time hanging on the wall, I only use it for large panels or Timbers. I added the folding handle with built in angle gauge for the saw, shaper elevation also has the added digital gauge. I have a power feeder on mine on a flip up bracket, it gets used on the saw and shaper. I noticed that your riving knife is too far away from the blade, and your guard isn’t installed, 2 big safety issues, as well as missing the over blade dust collection which works very well. Since I mostly work in solid wood, I often use the edging shoe on the slider for straight lining and ripping rough timber slightly oversized before jointing and planing. I had most of my blades bored when I bought the B3, it’s about $20 per blade, any tooling manufacturer can do that for you, I used FS Tools because they’re in my neighbourhood, I also have a 6” dado from them. Thanks for a great review, Regards, Rod
Hi, I just got the B3 Comfort. I can’t wait until the technician comes to fine tune it. I’ve watched literally all the videos you can find on TH-cam about the Hammer B3! Happy to see most people have a great feedback on this table saw!
I live and Delaware and always wanted a Felder saw. I recently purchased the Hammer C3 41 Combination machine. It saves a lot of space in my garage. I had the same problem with the three position switch on the back. I was devastated when it wouldn't turn on. I guess I'm not the only one who missed that. I'm very happy with my purchase and would recommend it to anyone looking to upgrade.
I agree 100% with Jason on the slider review. Sold my Sawstop 2 years ago and bought a C3 41, 16" jointer/planer, shaper combo and have never looked back. Was a tad hesitant but took the jump and just wish I did it sooner. The Fritz and Franz accessory is awesome, I could cut thin strips all day with complete confidence, and with total safety. I use only Forrest blades and have the Forrest dado stack. I now do most of my cross cutting on my slider instead of my Kapex as well. And cutting plywood, as Jason demonstrated, is so much easier for this old man. Oh and this saved me space in my two car garage setup, by also selling my DeWalt 13" planer and Powermatic 6" jointer. I also find Felder's support to be top notch. Thanks Jason, really enjoy your overviews.
Hey Jason, I love your channel. As you predicted some in your audience would copy your decision to get a Hammer. I have a Sawtop JSS and was considering the large Sawstop saws. I decided the slider was a much better route, it has the safety benefit of keeping my fingers far from the blade and has the 'sled' built in as you said while keeping my position out of line with the blade. My K3 Winner arrived and I am still putting it together. For others considering this I would say it is worth considering getting the mobility kit. I put the wheels on while it was on the pallet. Getting it off was a breeze - no pallet jack or tricky balancing. Thanks again for the great content.
@@AaronGeller I am very happy with it other than the topside dust collection. The dust collection boot does not even rise to the description of bad design. The thing in need of major rethink is the location of the start/stop switch - very poorly placed. But does cut well and accurately once set up
Marius Hornberger has a K3 Basic in his comparatively tiny shop, he has a great video reviewing it and doing some upgrades. Highly recommend his channel
I started out with the Felder K500 Pro and like you was totally sold on using a slider. I too decided I wanted more and I upgraded after about 1 year to the Felder Kappa 400 X-motion. Went with all digital stops and totally love this machine. I had it commissioned by Felder and it has been a pleasure to use. My advice would be to not settle for less on your next upgrade as years later you won’t have any regrets.
I got my C3-31 Perform 5 Function combo machine 18 months ago and absolutely love it. I even manage to fit the whole thing in a 2 car garage (although it's tight!) As for your discuss about the mitre slot - just use the sliding table! When I'm cutting miters, especially for smaller pieces, I shift my outrigger fence to the back and flip the fence around (so the fence is pushing the work through). Gives me a 1300mm capacity and the ability to use the miter indents on the outrigger.
Thanks so much for the review! I break down a ton of Baltic Birch sheets goods and have wanted a slider for a while now. I thought they were out of my grasp financially but I see now this one may not be. I've regretted buying my 52" Harvey Alpha from the first day I used it, they are junk. Thanks for showing breaking down a sheet of BB, my mind is made up, now time to save and sell the Alpha!
Thank you, Jason, for this great comprehensive walk through! I'm with you on the saw stop opinion. When I needed to replace my JET cabinet saw a couple years ago, I never considered paying an extra $2,500 for a saw stop. And I did run my hand through a table saw many years ago. I did that being careless/brainless cutting 120 identical parts late at night. That changed the way I work and I've not even had a near miss since. I'll never understand the saw stop bandwagon. It all comes down to paying attention.
Blessings from Australia. I have a Hammer C3 31 Combination Machine. Saw, Thickisser, Planer and Shaper, with a 2050mm sliding table and outrigger. I love it. I've had it for over 8 years. What sold me on it is that you are nowhere near the blade. You are always to the left of the blade and not behind it. The sliding table takes all the weight and control of your work. I would never go back to a traditional table saw. Cheers from West Aus.
Mine is the old Aque blue model, 2001. I got it really cheap with everything: the power feeder, heaps of knives for the spindle moulder, mortiser cutter and table. @@Fusion_Woodworking
Jason, you clearly are doing a slow migration towards Felder. But what’s interesting in all your videos and unless I missed that you don’t have the Felder fat table. So useful .
I think this is one of your best and most informative videos. Thanks for going into so much detail. I have the Felder K500S and I absolutely love it. I agree with so many points in your video and I feel completely safe using my saw.
A few comments, when you got your saw it the last piece I needed to convince me to purchase the exact saw. I replaced a Powermatic 66 with a Beismyer 50" fence. I loved this saw but my new Hammer is a giant upgrade. The Hammer actually has a smaller footprint. Using a sliding table saw as you said, is infinitely safer to operate. My hands are never near the blade. I too love my Hammer saw! Thank you for the video. Your channel has been a great help for me!
I had always wanted to have a large slider in my shop due to the safety factors and also be able to cut full sheets of ply. When I built my new shop 3 years ago, I ordered the SCM Minimax SC4e. It's been the best purchase and it doesn't disappoint. When you get through the learning curve of a slider, then sky is the limit. Once you install a DRO on the crosscut fence and add a second fence down the carriage with a DRO, you won't need to use the parallel fence. For small pieces, a Fritz and Franz. Things change quickly with the slider and the world opens up. I also have an FS41e which is awesome. So much great equipment out there. The Formula S 540p bandsaw is next.
Love it! This video confirmed every suspicion I had about a sliding table saw. I couldn't think of a single reason (other than space maybe) why I wouldn't want to move from a standard saw to a slider. I loved your other video about breaking down sheet goods using the track saw and I incorporated a lot of those techniques into my process for breaking down sheet goods but still think a sliding table saw would be more accurate, easier to navigate larger sheet goods, and safer for that task than a track saw and especially a regular table saw.
Just received my k3 winner for my 22x12 shop and it fits well with enough room to walk around. I sold my miter saw and removed the miter station to make it fit.
Hard to be sure on the video, but your fence adjuster bolts look to be coarse thread (3/8-16 possibly). If so can you replace them with fine thread to possibly make finer adjustments? Also, if the bolts are in fact removeable, you could double nut one side (make it fixed) once its close. Then loosen the single nut and use slotted machine shims (if you can find them).
Sliders are such great saws. So happy to have my Nova 300s. Good to see that they are gaining popularity here in the states. They are so much nicer to use than standard cabinet saws.
I've been lusting for an Altendorf, Felder (Format 4), or Martin for a long time. As soon as I win the lottery jackpot, it will show up in my garage. Congrats on your fine acquisition, JB.
I ran a 5 function minimax combo w/ format slider, shaper, 12" jointer/planer and mortiser for many years. In a ONE car garage. Now its in a two car garage shop...;)!
'Glad you shared that regret...I did the deed in about 2005 the first time; had to do without for a year while the new shop was being built after we moved two and a half years ago (had a cut down PCS to make do and it was frustrating going back to a cabinet saw) and was overjoyed to be back to a slider once I had the new building. BTW, my Harvy G700 performs really well with my quick connect duct work in a larger space than you have with what is largely a 5" network. My SCM/Minimax machines have 120mm ports which is very close to 5". Th einitial 20' or so of the network is 6" which gets it up 10' to above the rafters and 5" from there. Only the drop for the CNC and the general purpose drop for flattening/drums ander, etc. is 4"
@jimbecker5675 I still need to cut that grate in the dust port on my Harvey. So tired of that getting clogged. I'm assuming you're still happy you cut it out.
@@StahlFabrications, Yea, it was the right move for me. Folks with spiral/helical heads on their jointers/thicknessers will not likely have the clogging issue, but those of us with Tersa and other straighter knife formats that produce "fluffy shavings" will benefit. That said, there is risk because the G700 is "post separation", meaning any "chunks" that get picked up by the airflow can come in contact with the impeller.
I love what Sawstop can do, and I belive such a great feature should be made available to all circular blade saws. With that said, if you hands are never near the blade, does it matter if there is a brake? A sliding table saw is not just easier to cut whole sheet of plywood. You can do that with a track saw already. A sliding table saw is a different way to use a table saw. If you have a piece of rough sawn hardwood, you can just cut the first straight edge on a sliding table saw if it's not loger than your table travel distance, push the straight edge against the push fence, and you can get 2 square ends cut. It will be very challenging on a cabinet saw to do the same tasks.
Its not difficult at all on a cabinet saw. I just slap down a 10ft fence, but it is certainly not as easy than with a slider saw. If you have the $$$, but here is the rub, most do not and need that $$$ for a commercial planner and commerical sized bandsaw to save on buying rough hewn wood and slicing/dicing and planing it down to size, before a tablesaw upgrade. Or better bigger dust evac system, or a finishing shop or a bigger van to move finished products in, or, or, or....
@@w8stral I did 10ft fence trick. You do not only need a longer fence, but also a longer infeed and outfeed support. A circular saw can also do it if you have a long enough straight edge. Is it easy to get a 10ft fence? I think not. It's defintely possible because at least we both have done it. Speaking of cost, a high end cabinet saw is not much cheaper than a same size sliding table saw. I have used 2 jobsite saws, 1 contractor saw and 1 cabinet saw in the past 4 years, and done several projects on each one of them.
@@Fusion_Woodworking Yup: I think I was just pointing out that if one is going to spend $$$ and it is NOT infinite, there are FAR more numerous other big tools you need to get wood finish work done. One can make do with a low end tablesaw. You cannot make do with a low end dust vac, shaper, planer or bandsaw if your goal is to save lots and lots of $$$ buying rough cut lumber and turning it into dimensional lumber for cabinet, flooring, furniture usage . Then you need a finishing shed at minimum setup which will set one back couple more thousand and you have to have insulate/heat it. Table saw upgrade to the best around should be your LAST purchase. its like backpacking, everyone gets excited about backpacking and they go out and buy a backpack.... it is the LASt thing you should buy, same goes with a tablesaw. Not to mention you can buy 2nd hand tablesaws all over the place Add a good fence and well... As for where you buy a 10ft fence? Any bar or stock aluminum extrusion fits the bill. Sure a swing saw would be nice, but lets face it plywood cutting is not the problem.
Great demo. I had a K3 as well about 5 years ago and sold it, stupidly. We are moving in the next few months to the ABQ area and I'm planning on selling my SS, PM1500 and Jet J/P before we move as it would be very expensive to move and I don't plan on having a shop for probably a year. I'll just have to get by with all my Festools! Once I get a shop built, I will order the Felder 700 professional, the Hammer 4400 BS, and the a3-41. Probably going to be north of $20K but it's still a lot cheaper than a boat.
Another excellent video, Jason. I have a B3 comfort winner which is essentially the same saw but either the spindle moulder. Mine came set from the factory and was already accurate which was pleasing. Just a point on the zero clearance insert, you have to swap it out if you tilt the blade. I’m going to be extending my shop this year and plan to change to the Felder KF700 which, unlike a lot of manufacturers of larger machines, comes with an option of single phase. The quality increase on the Felder is significant but so is the hike in price!
I bought the C3-31 combo 4 yrs ago... got rid of my General cabinet saw and never looked back. Sure, it has drawbacks with respect to rip capacity and fence but the advantages are far too numerous to cover in a comment. I use the shoe regularly to straighten rough lumber. I use my power feeder all the time. Fritz and Franz jig is the best taper jig on earth. Got the Forest Dado stack. I'm considering parallel fences. If I was to start over (wish list), I would save another chunk of money and purchase the "Felder" combo shaper/saw and the A3-41 16inch planer/jointer. Now it's fun to make cabinets and rip through 4x8 melamine or ply. I like precision and Hammer delivers. Enjoy. Congratulations on your purchase. ... Oh yeah, FYI, I 3D print a lot of add-ons for the saw like the nut under the Kreg jig, adapters for dust collection (4in to 120mm), caps for the extrusions...
Just saw this pop up on my recs. Have basically the same saw and have it for 4-5 years now. You can run a 6” American style dado stack, got mine from sliver mill, I looked at the felder option but it leaves strange looking grooves due to the cutter design. I’m only 30 min in but a Ramon zero clearance throat plate, a fritz/franz jig, some slider kreg clamps, a zero clearance block on the outrigger and a free grizzly over blade guard from the mighty Mike Farrington really bring this saw alive. I have mine kind of in the middle of my 4 car equivalent sized shop but I might move a few things around and push it up to the wall. See if I like that setup
Don’t have time to watch the full video yet (I will later today), but as someone who has had the K3 for 4 months, I’m excited to see a candid review. I will say I have very few complaints at the moment, as enjoy the fact I haven’t needed to build one sled for the thing despite needing to do all sorts of odd cuts.
I feel so much safer with this saw and was probably my biggest concern for not going with sawstop. So glad I didn’t shy away. A lot of the things you brought up I agree with. The aftermarket options I wasn’t aware of and will look into. I use the track saw clamps and those work great for my needs at the moment. My saw came pretty well in spec and felder has great support team for a couple issues I ran into. Also I didn’t know they made a riving only knife, I hate taking the knife off when I do a half lap or something. I have a long narrow shop and a slider ended up being more space efficient than a traditional cabinet saw. 10/10 would buy again and I now recommend it over a cabinet saw if space and money are there. There are so many reasons this saw is better than a cabinet saw.
I borrowed a friend's job site table saw last year, as I had to rip down a bunch of plywood on site to 2.5" wide strips. I'd forgotten how janky feeding a full 4'x8' sheet can be through a US style table saw. I 100% agree with the sentiment in this video: a sliding table saw is much much safer. For me, they're definitely worth the expense.
I have a grizzly g0623 sliding table saw in a small shop and I agree, it doesnt take up any more space than a normal cabinet saw. Its actually smaller because I can move the sliding table to move around my shop. I agree with everything you said in this video. I wish these types of saws were more popular in the US. The one issue I have with my saw is ripping. I never good a great rip.
I use to have the same K3 winner, its a very nice saw, and a perfect entry level slider. I to hade some issues with and a couple of years ago I upgraded to a K700. Since im from the EU, I do run mine on 3 phase 400V power, since its normal to have that in the house also. The K3 is a very good saw, but still there is a world of difference to the K700. Do yourselfe a favor and skip the K500, and go for the K700, it is a much nicer and bigger upgrade. I never understood why americans still are stuck on those old cabinet saws when you can get a slider that is sooooo much better, so it nice to see your excitement for it, very nice walkthrough.
Thanks for this video, the dimensions of the saw was really useful. I am just a hobbyist where I work out of a garage, but still park my cars in it when not working. My question is, can the outrigger be taken off when not using the table saw as I would need to remove it for parking, and then put back on when I need to make a cut, without having to dial in the accuracy each time?
Yes, under 2 minutes to install it, no tools or calibration required. My outrigger spends most of its life hanging on the wall to save shop space as my shop is in the basement of a townhouse. When you need a larger machine, put the outrigger on, when you don't enjoy the ergonomics of a smaller machine.
@@rodsheridan7048 Thanks very much that was useful information. I'm trying to decide between a slider saw like this, or a combination machine like the C3-31 to save even more space. I'm happy it is easy the outrigger can come off easily. The width of the table saw or C3-31 without the outrigger, and no mortiser would be the maximum I could have to still park vehicles in the garage.
@@davidwilson3107the fence is not great on the C3-31. I went to Felder to buy the C3-31 in exchange for my A3-31 plus the difference in price. I thought I’ll go through the shop and see the other machines! The B3/K3 have a better fence. On the C3-31, you’ll have to use the fence of the planer and it’s really not great. It doesn’t compare to the B3/K3. I ended up keeping my A3-31 and bought the B3-Comfort.
Thank you for the excellent exposition. I think one of the main points about sliding table saws is that Sawstop (or similar technology) becomes just redundant, expensive junk that is totally unnecessary. Plus, with a sliding table, you are protected against kickback - unlike Sawstop.
I have the Felder K700S and couldn’t agree more with everything in the video. I will never go back to a table saw after using a slider. Like you my first cut with plywood I tried to use the fence and use it like a traditional table saw but learned real quickly that everything can be done on the slider side and I never use the fence now, I’m actually considering removing the fence since it’s more in the way than it is useful to me.
I got the same saw in my two car garage. Love it. Also bought an old Grizzly 5HP right tilt saw on Craigslist that I have dedicated to dado tooling. It's a very productive setup.
I’m right there with you brother. Sold my SS in favor of a K4 Perform and haven’t looked back since. My woodworking game has certainly improved and I feel safer than ever with a slider.
The only regret I have is buying a slider and an a341 separately. In hindsight I should have bought one of those 5 tools combination machines with a shaper.
I have the same saw and love it, the only two things i would change on the saw is the position of the on off switch, and make the slider a bit bigger so it can rip 8x4 sheet goods down. Was not aware yoi could get an extra start stop switch for it will need to look into that option. Never had any issues setting mine up , slider was level and i found the high low fence easy enough to adjust to my liking, although the round bar my fence rides on is slighly different, it is flat on the top with measurements on it.
@@bentswoodworking I gathered that from the video. I am just after doing the tables on my A3 31 and that was a nightmare, end result is table is now out by 0.08mm, hopefully it will not cause an issue.
At the beginning of the video I was watching. Just a quick word for your own safety. Don’t reach across with your hand to remove a sliver of wood or a cut off while the blade is spinning. If you are feeling brave use push stick or a long enough cut off to keep your hands far enough away. The blade has no feelings, it cuts whatever is in the line of fire. Accidents happen, but you can prevent them or at least minimize the chance. Good habits are just that, when you least expect it something happens. Respect all machinery, motorcycles, blades, knives, propellers, gun fire, etc., don’t get complacent and forget where you are. It just takes a split second for bad things to happen.
I really meant the comment for those that watch your video. I see people that own SawStops and with the safety feature of a retracting blade, a brake and no flesh cut injury it causes people to disregard minor safety precautions. I was talking to an elderly gentleman in the woodworking industry and we both had the understanding that if your tired get rest, take a nap, etc. it’s after a long day and just one more quick cut that things take the turn for the worst.
Yeah, I cringed when I saw him reaching over the blade like that-an accident waiting to happen. With the inherent safety of working with the slider and never having to get your hands anywhere near the blade to make a cut, it could be easy to get a little less safety minded.
Rather than dialing in your rip fence to eliminate the toe-out, you can add a piece of tape to the back of the far end of the fence itself. That way when you pull the fence back the tape will push against the main housing and "straighten out" the fence. I haven't actually done that with mine though; that toe-out is so minimal that it doesn't bother me, and like you I rarely use it that way anyway.
Very cool tip on fixing the sliding table. So when the sliding table is all the way at the front of the saw you adjust the front two bolts, then when the saw is all the way to the back you do the back two? I saw a video on youtube that said the opposite..... That is when the sliding table is all the way at the front you adjust the back two bolts, then again when the table is all the way to the back you adjust the front bolts.. Is the latter incorrect? What exactly did Felder say?? Many thanks
I have both a sliding table saw and cabinet saws in my shop, I would just say they it depends on what kind of work you are doing. If you are cutting a lot of sheet goods, then a sliding saw will be a good option for you, if you are cutting mostly hardwoods for furniture I would recommend a cabinet saw. Both have their purpose it depends on what you are doing. I also am not a fan of a smaller slider like you have, but then again I have the room for a larger one.
Nice video, keep up the great work. I currently have a Felder K700 sliding saw, cuts beautifully. Initial setup was a pain but once setup it is a joy to use. The overhead dust support arm limits cuts to 32" width before the arm gets in the way and finding specialty blades can be challenging but overall it's a great saw. If I were to ever upgrade it would be to the larger K700S.
This was a great video, Jason. I could feel your excitement with the new saw which is great. I also would never go back to a traditional cabinet saw after using a slider for the past 4 or so years. I'd love to move up to a larger machine than my K3, but I don't think I would be able to get anything larger down the stairs into my basement shop. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!!
Congratulations! It is, indeed, incredible. I can readily see what you mean with regard to a different way of doing things; and also how that could require an adjustment in perspective and thinking. Enjoy! Stay safe! Happy New Year! US Army (Retired) Systems Engineer and Adjunct Professor (Retired) Novice Woodworker and Grandpa (still learning and figuring things out) “Someday I may figure out what I want to be.”
I have a K700S slider and that rip fence adjustment is a complete pain in the ass! But I was finally able to get mine dialed in to a 2 thousandths of an inch toe out. It’s right where I want it now. 😁👍🏻
I live in a two bed terraced house in Northern England. My yard isn't all that big, my shed is 9'x6', or 2700x1800 in new money. It's barely big enough for my bench, 350mm bandsaw and drill press. I'm planning on building a bigger 4800x2100 shed, but even then I wouldn't have space inside for my jobsite saw permanently set up on its folding stand. This is why I went for a tracksaw, they're much more space efficient. When I renovate my kitchen, I'll take my living room furniture upstairs and use that room as a workshop.
I saw the K3 winner at a Dutch dealer last week. :-). I know what you mean. It would be so much safer to work with bigger pieces than with my DeWalt. Are your experiences with wood like oak and beech also as good as with sheet goods?
"A table saw is as safe as you make it" is the truest statement I'm likely to hear all year. As a contractor who uses a table saw pretty much all the time, I can tell you the most dangerous thing about a table saw is lifting it. Never put your hand over the blade, use a riving knife when ripping, and always keep your pinky on the far side of the fence so as to slow down your reaction time to the same speed as your brain and eyes and you'll never ever get hurt on a table saw.
In Finland the local Felder import company provides the Felder and Format line installed by them (can be excluded as well). Hammers normally are sold as your case but they provide the installation service as well in additional price. The price of the service is something depending how much you value your own work time - can be worth the price or as in my case I would try it by myself (not professional but hobbyist). Felders and especially Format saws and other equipment are most commonly seen in professional shops anyway or the hobbyist has a thick wallet :)
Jason great video very informative. A Couple questions: 1) When you went to Felder to look at the K3 did you happen to look at the C3-41? Curious on your thoughts in your shop if you had gone that route and eliminated the A3-41? 2) Since you traditionally enjoy cabinet work and were using your assembly table to breakdown sheet goods does having the slider change your thoughts on what type of MFT/Assembly table you should have? Thanks
I didn’t consider it. I prefer to have separate machines. As for the table, I haven’t used my assembly table to break down sheet goods since getting the slider. I actually am designing a new hybrid table now.
@@bentswoodworking I figured when you mentioned the new hybrid table on the pod cast that is why. It would be interesting to see what the difference would be from a shop layout perspective having the combo machine in a small shop. I had thought about it, but I still like the ability to move everything to the walls in my current shop to have an open area for whatever is needed at some point.
Jason, I think the K3 and A3-41 are pretty close to co-planer for the work surface. You might consider tucking the planer against the wall behind the K3. The K3 will function as your outfeed table. I have an old iron 16” Porter jointer that abuts the back of the K700 Felder. The co-planer decks makes for efficient use of precious workspace.
Hey Jason - any comments regarding sliding table saw, vs panel saw vs track saw? I make cabinets and room is not issue in my shop. Also, I do not go to job-sites, strictly work in the shop. I know everyone loves the track saw but I very nervous about repeatability and messing with the guide each time I need to make my next cut. Thank you sir.
K940S. I totally understand the frustration leveling the carriage. I do recommend staying with the splitter behind the blade and connecting a dust extracter. I agree it is a little more annoying using it as a regular table saw, the darn carriage gets in the way. Is the blade quick release option available? If so are you getting it?
When I see a saw like this I’m always in awe. I don’t think I would ever buy one. But they look like a great saw. I don’t think I could justify it for my small business. But man… You do a great job of selling it. Makes me want one. LOL. On a side note…. I really need to work on my sketch up game so I can make a model of my shop. I have an amazing size shop and I know my layout is horrible. I have so much wasted space. And way too many steps. Not to mention… my outfeed sucks! Just this weekend I ran into issues with not having the out feed I needed.
I may be able to help you with that. I am actually about to launch a service for helping with shop layout and design using sketchup as the software for it. 👍👍
@@bentswoodworking That would be fantastic! I have a pretty good size shop. But I started in a corner and keep taking over more. I am “stuck” right now. I think I’m limiting myself to what I THINK i can do. Instead of what could be.
Can’t wait! New shop this year and my next tool will be a Nova 400, K700 or Cantek 405. Leaning towards the Cantek because it's the same cost but has the CNC rip fence.
Think of your fence as just another stop block, you don't always need it to go all the way up to the front of the blade with the slider. I would buy another fence and cut it down to the length of the fence guide. That way you would not have to do as much dialing in and have to worry about runout as much.
Congratulations! Nice overview explaining the advantages of a slider. I have been a slider convert since 2004 and will never go back to a standard cabinet saw. For your biggest regret of 2024 I might suggest not building a Fritz and Franz jig as the first thing on your slider. Steve
11:56 let me personally disagree! I have a bunch of stuff on the infeed of my table saw. I have to maximize the space 😂 but I agree with your point- I would 100% get this tool!
Happy New Year, great Video. Ordered my Hammer B3 and A3-31 before Christmas and can't wait to get it. Looking forward to your review on the Hammer Bandsaw. All the very best and look forward to more of you findings and reviews this year.
So how do you make a rip cuts with the slider? I spent the entire video waiting for you to tell us how you do that after you said that you finally realized that you should just use the slider rather than the fence. For instance, a very common occurrence is you are processing a 6 inch wide, 4 foot long, rough sawn board. After you have jointed and planed to S3S and now you want to rip it to width, say 4 inches wide. How do you make that cut on the slider?
Hi, I rip it rough using an edging shoe for the straightline and the fence for the rip about 6mm (1/4") oversize with the fence pulled back to end just after the beginning of the blade, no point jointing and planing the scraps. Then joint one face and edge, plane the other face/edge to dimension. When ripping above, a Fritz and Franz jig can hold the piece with you standing on the left of the sliding table without the use of push sticks or having your hands anywhere near the blade. For larger parallel cuts, a parallel ripping device can be used in addition to the crosscut fence stop to position the wood on the slider, and can of course make non parallel rips depending upon how you position the stops.
Cool review, glad you’re happy with your new slider. I build mostly custom furniture with hardwoods. A few sheet goods but not much. The sawstop is great for me. I do have the Harvey slider and while I agree it’s not a slider, it is 100% reliable, repeatable and VERY well made and helps me the few times I need it.
Hello Mr. Bent. I'm a big fan of your videos. Quick question: between your sliding tablesaw and your festool mft3, which one do you find most useful? If you had to pick one, which would you pick? Thanks
That looks like a great machine for large crosscuts and one that I might consider in the future. For now I’m working to setup a MFT with a hinged track like you have showed us so much of. Do you ever see yourself using your MFT now that you have the abilities of this new saw? Thanks for all the great content.
Jason, you have this, and I believe the 3xMFT table. I’m setting up a shop in the near future; what do you use the table saw for that you couldn’t do as well with a tracksaw on the MFTs?
Hey Bent this is an off topic question but when you’re sanding between coats of polyurethane or paint, when you sand do you use a power sander or by hand?
This is what I'm interested in as well. I can clearly see how this would work well for sheet goods, but I do not yet have a vision for how ripping hard woods for furniture (and such) would be done on a slider.
@@AaronGeller you can make a extension jig that rides in the miter slot on slider so that when you reach the final stop on the slider you just push through with the jig to finish the rip. It's basically just a board with grooves for clamps and the slot guide. And as he pointed out you have to have the room behind the saw, so i just open the garage door :}
Hillarious, I ran into the identical issue with thinking my machine was fried after I installed. I need to get my crosscut fence aligned as well. I noticed you removed the last wing...I am thinking about doing the same thing...any regrets?
HI Jason, Very informative video. In your evaluation, you looked at the K3 slider and the A3 jointer/planer as separate machines. Is there a reason why you did not consider the C3-31 or -41 with the same option outrigger for your shop and amalgamate the footprint between the separate machines?
These are nice saws, just wish they had spring loaded stops instead of flip stops. I've had a hard time finding a saw with that feature since selling my SCM/Rockwell SI-15. You are totally right in that there isn't a huge difference between a unisaw and a slider in terms of space if you set your space up right. What do you think about the difference between this saw being separate from the jointer/planer vs. a combo tool from the same company?
Nice saw, Jason! Congratulations👊! I have a cabinet saw with an incra fence similar to your old setup. I'm really curious if you miss the accuracy and repeatability of the incra? Or is it too early to evaluate?
Excellent review, these saws have intrigued me for many years. Interesting to see how their footprint is smaller than it outwardly appears. Thanks for sharing. I think I've heard you are from Indiana, me as well! Thanks again for this great review
I have exactly the same machine, down to every specification. I think this was a nice introductory video, one I would have appreciated three years ago when I was obsessed about table saws and which one to buy. You spent a lot of time on the dimensions and the space requirements. I have a _way_ smaller workshop space and I've been able to make it work. For me, the main attractions for the sliding table saw were: (1) Safety. You use a slider differently. Instead of standing directly behind the blade, and in the path of any kickback, you stand to the side and away from kickback. Moreover, there is no need to get your hands near to the blade. If you find yourself doing so, you're doing something wrong. For small pieces, you can make or buy a Fritz & Franz jig which pinches small pieces when running the wood through the blade. (A F&F jig is also really useful for rip cuts on narrow pieces.) (2) Precision. This machine is probably the cheapest machine you can buy that has precision better than wood deserves. If you get a few 1-2-3 machinist blocks, you can dial in the scales to less than a mm. The precision also extends to the cross cutting ability on this machine. I dialed mine in so that error is evenly distributed around zero. (I'm a statistician and did replicate cuts using the 5 cut method.) This means that you can count on 90 degree cuts really being 90 degrees. Finally (3) Crosscutting: I was used to the idea of a normal North American style table saw. In fact, I started my research with the idea of getting a Saw Stop saw. But, then I started to think about the things I would need to make in order to use the saw to its fullest potential. Minimally a crosscut sled. If you think about it, it's silly to think that you need to make a bunch of jigs to use a saw to its potential. This saw, out of the box, can cross cut like nothing you've ever seen. It's a dream!
Bedrosian sells an excellent Fritz & Franz jig. Ramon Valdez makes zero clearance inserts for this machine.
Thank you for your insight, this is great information you have shared.
I purchased a Felder K700S which has a 9' slide nearly 10 years ago and cannot imagine ever working without it. And for the record, mine is an 1,100 sq ft basement shop.
I have had your enthusiasm for sliders for the last 20 years. I started with a Laguna TSS and now have a Format 4 kappa 400 x-motion. They are such a joy to use. Excited that some of the "influencers" are finally coming around the the light!
I have the FELDER K700S…. Which I got because it seemed the safest option (even vs the Sawstop). As you demonstrate - You can hold an 8x4 sheet (portrait or landscape) on the sliding table with the fence and a single clamp and never be within feet of the blade, or at the other end of the scale you can cut 1/4 inch off a 1 inch long dowel using the Fritz & Franz jig also without coming within feet of the blade….. and all without the need for a push stick because you are always so far from the blade
I bought the same saw. LOVE IT! There was certainly a learning curve for me after nearly 40 years of using a Powermatic Model 66. I’ve kept the Powermatic for long rips of solid woods. The Felder now does 90 percent of my cutting work.
The biggest safety advantage is not even blade protection but kickback.
As long as you have $6000 to drop on a tablesaw instead of putting that $$$ into a commercial planner +, big commercial bandsaw which = ripping inexpensive lumber saving you BIGGGG $$$$$, Sure, go ahead buy a big expensive table saw which is superior 100%, but one has SO many other big costs before pursuing this massive upgrade expense. Such as Dust Evac, router tables and bits, clamps clamps and more clamps etc. Next would be cost of making a finishing ONLY shop with hanging racks and tables + radiant floor heating and air filtration system etc. This saw would be the LAST thing I would purchase as a prospective wood worker. Always in back of mind to get if I have lots of $$$ to drop on a new tool, but......... Something to drool over when all the REAL tools, infrastructure has been purchased and paid off. If I were a rich man, la la la da daa dadda da dum, If I were a ...
Love it, love it, love it….!!!! I love seeing people wrap their heads around a slider. You are 100% correct saying you will never go back to a traditional saw. Please let everyone know about the riving knife, brings an element of safety that you do not get with anything else. I used a big SCMI for the last 12 years in a commercial setting and it was the most satisfying tool I have ever used! A great deal of my work was with lumber although one would think it’s mainly for sheet goods. Once you re-train yourself from pushing everything between the fence and blade everything opens up!
Love it
Glad to see another promotion for a slider video. We are a commercial cabinet shop, so we have multiple Martin brand sliding saws and would never use a "cabinet type" saw. We fixture most things on the carriage for best precision results etc. I have a Robland combo machine at my house, for personal use.
Sounds great!
Great review, thanks for doing the work involved in making this video.
I have a Hammer B3 that I custom ordered in 2010, so that I could have the 51” slider with outrigger.
The B3 has the tilting spindle shaper in it which I use a lot as I mostly make solid wood furniture.
The outrigger on mine spends most of the time hanging on the wall, I only use it for large panels or Timbers.
I added the folding handle with built in angle gauge for the saw, shaper elevation also has the added digital gauge.
I have a power feeder on mine on a flip up bracket, it gets used on the saw and shaper.
I noticed that your riving knife is too far away from the blade, and your guard isn’t installed, 2 big safety issues, as well as missing the over blade dust collection which works very well.
Since I mostly work in solid wood, I often use the edging shoe on the slider for straight lining and ripping rough timber slightly oversized before jointing and planing.
I had most of my blades bored when I bought the B3, it’s about $20 per blade, any tooling manufacturer can do that for you, I used FS Tools because they’re in my neighbourhood, I also have a 6” dado from them.
Thanks for a great review, Regards, Rod
Hi, I just got the B3 Comfort. I can’t wait until the technician comes to fine tune it. I’ve watched literally all the videos you can find on TH-cam about the Hammer B3! Happy to see most people have a great feedback on this table saw!
I live and Delaware and always wanted a Felder saw. I recently purchased the Hammer C3 41 Combination machine. It saves a lot of space in my garage. I had the same problem with the three position switch on the back. I was devastated when it wouldn't turn on. I guess I'm not the only one who missed that. I'm very happy with my purchase and would recommend it to anyone looking to upgrade.
Very cool!
I have a K3 winner, this is the same saw but a router is included. To utilise the router I have to put the tree position switch up high.
I agree 100% with Jason on the slider review. Sold my Sawstop 2 years ago and bought a C3 41, 16" jointer/planer, shaper combo and have never looked back. Was a tad hesitant but took the jump and just wish I did it sooner. The Fritz and Franz accessory is awesome, I could cut thin strips all day with complete confidence, and with total safety. I use only Forrest blades and have the Forrest dado stack. I now do most of my cross cutting on my slider instead of my Kapex as well. And cutting plywood, as Jason demonstrated, is so much easier for this old man. Oh and this saved me space in my two car garage setup, by also selling my DeWalt 13" planer and Powermatic 6" jointer. I also find Felder's support to be top notch. Thanks Jason, really enjoy your overviews.
Hey Jason, I love your channel. As you predicted some in your audience would copy your decision to get a Hammer. I have a Sawtop JSS and was considering the large Sawstop saws. I decided the slider was a much better route, it has the safety benefit of keeping my fingers far from the blade and has the 'sled' built in as you said while keeping my position out of line with the blade. My K3 Winner arrived and I am still putting it together. For others considering this I would say it is worth considering getting the mobility kit. I put the wheels on while it was on the pallet. Getting it off was a breeze - no pallet jack or tricky balancing. Thanks again for the great content.
What are your thoughts on it after 2 months of usage?
@@AaronGeller I am very happy with it other than the topside dust collection. The dust collection boot does not even rise to the description of bad design. The thing in need of major rethink is the location of the start/stop switch - very poorly placed. But does cut well and accurately once set up
Marius Hornberger has a K3 Basic in his comparatively tiny shop, he has a great video reviewing it and doing some upgrades. Highly recommend his channel
I’m familiar with his videos
I started out with the Felder K500 Pro and like you was totally sold on using a slider. I too decided I wanted more and I upgraded after about 1 year to the Felder Kappa 400 X-motion. Went with all digital stops and totally love this machine. I had it commissioned by Felder and it has been a pleasure to use. My advice would be to not settle for less on your next upgrade as years later you won’t have any regrets.
I got my C3-31 Perform 5 Function combo machine 18 months ago and absolutely love it. I even manage to fit the whole thing in a 2 car garage (although it's tight!) As for your discuss about the mitre slot - just use the sliding table! When I'm cutting miters, especially for smaller pieces, I shift my outrigger fence to the back and flip the fence around (so the fence is pushing the work through). Gives me a 1300mm capacity and the ability to use the miter indents on the outrigger.
Thanks so much for the review! I break down a ton of Baltic Birch sheets goods and have wanted a slider for a while now. I thought they were out of my grasp financially but I see now this one may not be. I've regretted buying my 52" Harvey Alpha from the first day I used it, they are junk. Thanks for showing breaking down a sheet of BB, my mind is made up, now time to save and sell the Alpha!
That was a great video bent and u are a great woodworker just like my dad aka I miss hanging out with u and always will sir and can’t stop ever sir!!
Thank you, Jason, for this great comprehensive walk through! I'm with you on the saw stop opinion. When I needed to replace my JET cabinet saw a couple years ago, I never considered paying an extra $2,500 for a saw stop. And I did run my hand through a table saw many years ago. I did that being careless/brainless cutting 120 identical parts late at night. That changed the way I work and I've not even had a near miss since. I'll never understand the saw stop bandwagon. It all comes down to paying attention.
Blessings from Australia. I have a Hammer C3 31 Combination Machine. Saw, Thickisser, Planer and Shaper, with a 2050mm sliding table and outrigger. I love it. I've had it for over 8 years. What sold me on it is that you are nowhere near the blade. You are always to the left of the blade and not behind it. The sliding table takes all the weight and control of your work. I would never go back to a traditional table saw. Cheers from West Aus.
I also have a C3 31, and mine is the comfort model.
Mine is the old Aque blue model, 2001. I got it really cheap with everything: the power feeder, heaps of knives for the spindle moulder, mortiser cutter and table. @@Fusion_Woodworking
Jason, you clearly are doing a slow migration towards Felder. But what’s interesting in all your videos and unless I missed that you don’t have the Felder fat table. So useful .
I think this is one of your best and most informative videos. Thanks for going into so much detail. I have the Felder K500S and I absolutely love it. I agree with so many points in your video and I feel completely safe using my saw.
Can’t wait to upgrade to the Felder!
A few comments, when you got your saw it the last piece I needed to convince me to purchase the exact saw. I replaced a Powermatic 66 with a Beismyer 50" fence. I loved this saw but my new Hammer is a giant upgrade. The Hammer actually has a smaller footprint. Using a sliding table saw as you said, is infinitely safer to operate. My hands are never near the blade. I too love my Hammer saw!
Thank you for the video. Your channel has been a great help for me!
The fence on sliding table saws is mainly for ripping beams. For sizing panels you use the sliding table only.
I had always wanted to have a large slider in my shop due to the safety factors and also be able to cut full sheets of ply. When I built my new shop 3 years ago, I ordered the SCM Minimax SC4e. It's been the best purchase and it doesn't disappoint. When you get through the learning curve of a slider, then sky is the limit. Once you install a DRO on the crosscut fence and add a second fence down the carriage with a DRO, you won't need to use the parallel fence. For small pieces, a Fritz and Franz. Things change quickly with the slider and the world opens up. I also have an FS41e which is awesome. So much great equipment out there. The Formula S 540p bandsaw is next.
Love it! This video confirmed every suspicion I had about a sliding table saw. I couldn't think of a single reason (other than space maybe) why I wouldn't want to move from a standard saw to a slider. I loved your other video about breaking down sheet goods using the track saw and I incorporated a lot of those techniques into my process for breaking down sheet goods but still think a sliding table saw would be more accurate, easier to navigate larger sheet goods, and safer for that task than a track saw and especially a regular table saw.
It’s such a great tool
Just received my k3 winner for my 22x12 shop and it fits well with enough room to walk around. I sold my miter saw and removed the miter station to make it fit.
I purchased the Hammer C3 41 Comfort in August of 2023 and I love my machine. I am still learning about woodworking and loving every moment of it.
Hard to be sure on the video, but your fence adjuster bolts look to be coarse thread (3/8-16 possibly). If so can you replace them with fine thread to possibly make finer adjustments?
Also, if the bolts are in fact removeable, you could double nut one side (make it fixed) once its close. Then loosen the single nut and use slotted machine shims (if you can find them).
Sliders are such great saws. So happy to have my Nova 300s. Good to see that they are gaining popularity here in the states. They are so much nicer to use than standard cabinet saws.
I've been lusting for an Altendorf, Felder (Format 4), or Martin for a long time. As soon as I win the lottery jackpot, it will show up in my garage. Congrats on your fine acquisition, JB.
I ran a 5 function minimax combo w/ format slider, shaper, 12" jointer/planer and mortiser for many years. In a ONE car garage. Now its in a two car garage shop...;)!
'Glad you shared that regret...I did the deed in about 2005 the first time; had to do without for a year while the new shop was being built after we moved two and a half years ago (had a cut down PCS to make do and it was frustrating going back to a cabinet saw) and was overjoyed to be back to a slider once I had the new building. BTW, my Harvy G700 performs really well with my quick connect duct work in a larger space than you have with what is largely a 5" network. My SCM/Minimax machines have 120mm ports which is very close to 5". Th einitial 20' or so of the network is 6" which gets it up 10' to above the rafters and 5" from there. Only the drop for the CNC and the general purpose drop for flattening/drums ander, etc. is 4"
I can’t wait to see how the Felder performs
@jimbecker5675 I still need to cut that grate in the dust port on my Harvey. So tired of that getting clogged. I'm assuming you're still happy you cut it out.
@@StahlFabrications, Yea, it was the right move for me. Folks with spiral/helical heads on their jointers/thicknessers will not likely have the clogging issue, but those of us with Tersa and other straighter knife formats that produce "fluffy shavings" will benefit. That said, there is risk because the G700 is "post separation", meaning any "chunks" that get picked up by the airflow can come in contact with the impeller.
I love what Sawstop can do, and I belive such a great feature should be made available to all circular blade saws. With that said, if you hands are never near the blade, does it matter if there is a brake? A sliding table saw is not just easier to cut whole sheet of plywood. You can do that with a track saw already. A sliding table saw is a different way to use a table saw. If you have a piece of rough sawn hardwood, you can just cut the first straight edge on a sliding table saw if it's not loger than your table travel distance, push the straight edge against the push fence, and you can get 2 square ends cut. It will be very challenging on a cabinet saw to do the same tasks.
Its not difficult at all on a cabinet saw. I just slap down a 10ft fence, but it is certainly not as easy than with a slider saw. If you have the $$$, but here is the rub, most do not and need that $$$ for a commercial planner and commerical sized bandsaw to save on buying rough hewn wood and slicing/dicing and planing it down to size, before a tablesaw upgrade. Or better bigger dust evac system, or a finishing shop or a bigger van to move finished products in, or, or, or....
@@w8stral I did 10ft fence trick. You do not only need a longer fence, but also a longer infeed and outfeed support. A circular saw can also do it if you have a long enough straight edge. Is it easy to get a 10ft fence? I think not. It's defintely possible because at least we both have done it. Speaking of cost, a high end cabinet saw is not much cheaper than a same size sliding table saw. I have used 2 jobsite saws, 1 contractor saw and 1 cabinet saw in the past 4 years, and done several projects on each one of them.
@@Fusion_Woodworking Yup: I think I was just pointing out that if one is going to spend $$$ and it is NOT infinite, there are FAR more numerous other big tools you need to get wood finish work done. One can make do with a low end tablesaw. You cannot make do with a low end dust vac, shaper, planer or bandsaw if your goal is to save lots and lots of $$$ buying rough cut lumber and turning it into dimensional lumber for cabinet, flooring, furniture usage . Then you need a finishing shed at minimum setup which will set one back couple more thousand and you have to have insulate/heat it. Table saw upgrade to the best around should be your LAST purchase. its like backpacking, everyone gets excited about backpacking and they go out and buy a backpack.... it is the LASt thing you should buy, same goes with a tablesaw. Not to mention you can buy 2nd hand tablesaws all over the place Add a good fence and well...
As for where you buy a 10ft fence? Any bar or stock aluminum extrusion fits the bill. Sure a swing saw would be nice, but lets face it plywood cutting is not the problem.
Great demo. I had a K3 as well about 5 years ago and sold it, stupidly. We are moving in the next few months to the ABQ area and I'm planning on selling my SS, PM1500 and Jet J/P before we move as it would be very expensive to move and I don't plan on having a shop for probably a year. I'll just have to get by with all my Festools! Once I get a shop built, I will order the Felder 700 professional, the Hammer 4400 BS, and the a3-41. Probably going to be north of $20K but it's still a lot cheaper than a boat.
Another excellent video, Jason. I have a B3 comfort winner which is essentially the same saw but either the spindle moulder. Mine came set from the factory and was already accurate which was pleasing. Just a point on the zero clearance insert, you have to swap it out if you tilt the blade. I’m going to be extending my shop this year and plan to change to the Felder KF700 which, unlike a lot of manufacturers of larger machines, comes with an option of single phase. The quality increase on the Felder is significant but so is the hike in price!
I bought the C3-31 combo 4 yrs ago... got rid of my General cabinet saw and never looked back. Sure, it has drawbacks with respect to rip capacity and fence but the advantages are far too numerous to cover in a comment. I use the shoe regularly to straighten rough lumber. I use my power feeder all the time. Fritz and Franz jig is the best taper jig on earth. Got the Forest Dado stack. I'm considering parallel fences. If I was to start over (wish list), I would save another chunk of money and purchase the "Felder" combo shaper/saw and the A3-41 16inch planer/jointer. Now it's fun to make cabinets and rip through 4x8 melamine or ply. I like precision and Hammer delivers. Enjoy. Congratulations on your purchase. ... Oh yeah, FYI, I 3D print a lot of add-ons for the saw like the nut under the Kreg jig, adapters for dust collection (4in to 120mm), caps for the extrusions...
Just saw this pop up on my recs. Have basically the same saw and have it for 4-5 years now. You can run a 6” American style dado stack, got mine from sliver mill, I looked at the felder option but it leaves strange looking grooves due to the cutter design.
I’m only 30 min in but a Ramon zero clearance throat plate, a fritz/franz jig, some slider kreg clamps, a zero clearance block on the outrigger and a free grizzly over blade guard from the mighty Mike Farrington really bring this saw alive.
I have mine kind of in the middle of my 4 car equivalent sized shop but I might move a few things around and push it up to the wall. See if I like that setup
Don’t have time to watch the full video yet (I will later today), but as someone who has had the K3 for 4 months, I’m excited to see a candid review. I will say I have very few complaints at the moment, as enjoy the fact I haven’t needed to build one sled for the thing despite needing to do all sorts of odd cuts.
Hope you enjoy it!
I feel so much safer with this saw and was probably my biggest concern for not going with sawstop. So glad I didn’t shy away.
A lot of the things you brought up I agree with. The aftermarket options I wasn’t aware of and will look into.
I use the track saw clamps and those work great for my needs at the moment.
My saw came pretty well in spec and felder has great support team for a couple issues I ran into.
Also I didn’t know they made a riving only knife, I hate taking the knife off when I do a half lap or something.
I have a long narrow shop and a slider ended up being more space efficient than a traditional cabinet saw.
10/10 would buy again and I now recommend it over a cabinet saw if space and money are there. There are so many reasons this saw is better than a cabinet saw.
I borrowed a friend's job site table saw last year, as I had to rip down a bunch of plywood on site to 2.5" wide strips. I'd forgotten how janky feeding a full 4'x8' sheet can be through a US style table saw. I 100% agree with the sentiment in this video: a sliding table saw is much much safer. For me, they're definitely worth the expense.
I have a grizzly g0623 sliding table saw in a small shop and I agree, it doesnt take up any more space than a normal cabinet saw. Its actually smaller because I can move the sliding table to move around my shop. I agree with everything you said in this video. I wish these types of saws were more popular in the US.
The one issue I have with my saw is ripping. I never good a great rip.
I use to have the same K3 winner, its a very nice saw, and a perfect entry level slider. I to hade some issues with and a couple of years ago I upgraded to a K700. Since im from the EU, I do run mine on 3 phase 400V power, since its normal to have that in the house also. The K3 is a very good saw, but still there is a world of difference to the K700. Do yourselfe a favor and skip the K500, and go for the K700, it is a much nicer and bigger upgrade.
I never understood why americans still are stuck on those old cabinet saws when you can get a slider that is sooooo much better, so it nice to see your excitement for it, very nice walkthrough.
K700 is what I’m looking into
Last year I got my slider and absolutely love it! I will never go back to tranditional table saw in this life.
Thanks for this video, the dimensions of the saw was really useful. I am just a hobbyist where I work out of a garage, but still park my cars in it when not working. My question is, can the outrigger be taken off when not using the table saw as I would need to remove it for parking, and then put back on when I need to make a cut, without having to dial in the accuracy each time?
Yes it comes off very easily. If you watch my assembly video on it you will see how easy it is.
Yes, under 2 minutes to install it, no tools or calibration required.
My outrigger spends most of its life hanging on the wall to save shop space as my shop is in the basement of a townhouse. When you need a larger machine, put the outrigger on, when you don't enjoy the ergonomics of a smaller machine.
@@bentswoodworking Thanks for the video and the reply.
@@rodsheridan7048 Thanks very much that was useful information. I'm trying to decide between a slider saw like this, or a combination machine like the C3-31 to save even more space. I'm happy it is easy the outrigger can come off easily. The width of the table saw or C3-31 without the outrigger, and no mortiser would be the maximum I could have to still park vehicles in the garage.
@@davidwilson3107the fence is not great on the C3-31. I went to Felder to buy the C3-31 in exchange for my A3-31 plus the difference in price. I thought I’ll go through the shop and see the other machines! The B3/K3 have a better fence. On the C3-31, you’ll have to use the fence of the planer and it’s really not great. It doesn’t compare to the B3/K3. I ended up keeping my A3-31 and bought the B3-Comfort.
Make sure you build yourself some useful jigs that fit on top of the slider. Game changer
Mac’s Airtight Clamps are the best of all time for these sliders! I love using mine!
Thank you for the excellent exposition.
I think one of the main points about sliding table saws is that Sawstop (or similar technology) becomes just redundant, expensive junk that is totally unnecessary. Plus, with a sliding table, you are protected against kickback - unlike Sawstop.
I have the Felder K700S and couldn’t agree more with everything in the video. I will never go back to a table saw after using a slider. Like you my first cut with plywood I tried to use the fence and use it like a traditional table saw but learned real quickly that everything can be done on the slider side and I never use the fence now, I’m actually considering removing the fence since it’s more in the way than it is useful to me.
I got the same saw in my two car garage. Love it. Also bought an old Grizzly 5HP right tilt saw on Craigslist that I have dedicated to dado tooling. It's a very productive setup.
I’m right there with you brother. Sold my SS in favor of a K4 Perform and haven’t looked back since. My woodworking game has certainly improved and I feel safer than ever with a slider.
The only regret I have is buying a slider and an a341 separately. In hindsight I should have bought one of those 5 tools combination machines with a shaper.
Excellent description and details on the size. Thanks.
I have the same saw and love it, the only two things i would change on the saw is the position of the on off switch, and make the slider a bit bigger so it can rip 8x4 sheet goods down. Was not aware yoi could get an extra start stop switch for it will need to look into that option. Never had any issues setting mine up , slider was level and i found the high low fence easy enough to adjust to my liking, although the round bar my fence rides on is slighly different, it is flat on the top with measurements on it.
Mine has been very finicky
@@bentswoodworking I gathered that from the video. I am just after doing the tables on my A3 31 and that was a nightmare, end result is table is now out by 0.08mm, hopefully it will not cause an issue.
At the beginning of the video I was watching. Just a quick word for your own safety. Don’t reach across with your hand to remove a sliver of wood or a cut off while the blade is spinning. If you are feeling brave use push stick or a long enough cut off to keep your hands far enough away. The blade has no feelings, it cuts whatever is in the line of fire. Accidents happen, but you can prevent them or at least minimize the chance. Good habits are just that, when you least expect it something happens. Respect all machinery, motorcycles, blades, knives, propellers, gun fire, etc., don’t get complacent and forget where you are. It just takes a split second for bad things to happen.
I really meant the comment for those that watch your video. I see people that own SawStops and with the safety feature of a retracting blade, a brake and no flesh cut injury it causes people to disregard minor safety precautions.
I was talking to an elderly gentleman in the woodworking industry and we both had the understanding that if your tired get rest, take a nap, etc. it’s after a long day and just one more quick cut that things take the turn for the worst.
Yeah, I cringed when I saw him reaching over the blade like that-an accident waiting to happen. With the inherent safety of working with the slider and never having to get your hands anywhere near the blade to make a cut, it could be easy to get a little less safety minded.
I don't know why people don't use blade guards whenever they can.
Rather than dialing in your rip fence to eliminate the toe-out, you can add a piece of tape to the back of the far end of the fence itself. That way when you pull the fence back the tape will push against the main housing and "straighten out" the fence. I haven't actually done that with mine though; that toe-out is so minimal that it doesn't bother me, and like you I rarely use it that way anyway.
Very cool tip on fixing the sliding table. So when the sliding table is all the way at the front of the saw you adjust the front two bolts, then when the saw is all the way to the back you do the back two? I saw a video on youtube that said the opposite..... That is when the sliding table is all the way at the front you adjust the back two bolts, then again when the table is all the way to the back you adjust the front bolts.. Is the latter incorrect? What exactly did Felder say?? Many thanks
I have both a sliding table saw and cabinet saws in my shop, I would just say they it depends on what kind of work you are doing. If you are cutting a lot of sheet goods, then a sliding saw will be a good option for you, if you are cutting mostly hardwoods for furniture I would recommend a cabinet saw. Both have their purpose it depends on what you are doing. I also am not a fan of a smaller slider like you have, but then again I have the room for a larger one.
Nice video, keep up the great work. I currently have a Felder K700 sliding saw, cuts beautifully. Initial setup was a pain but once setup it is a joy to use. The overhead dust support arm limits cuts to 32" width before the arm gets in the way and finding specialty blades can be challenging but overall it's a great saw. If I were to ever upgrade it would be to the larger K700S.
I think I’ll be going to the Felder this year.
There is a learning face and growing with every new tool. Yes, there’s lots of adjustments to be made with time you dial it in.
This was a great video, Jason. I could feel your excitement with the new saw which is great. I also would never go back to a traditional cabinet saw after using a slider for the past 4 or so years. I'd love to move up to a larger machine than my K3, but I don't think I would be able to get anything larger down the stairs into my basement shop. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!!
Thanks David
Congratulations! It is, indeed, incredible. I can readily see what you mean with regard to a different way of doing things; and also how that could require an adjustment in perspective and thinking.
Enjoy! Stay safe! Happy New Year!
US Army (Retired)
Systems Engineer and Adjunct Professor (Retired)
Novice Woodworker and Grandpa (still learning and figuring things out)
“Someday I may figure out what I want to be.”
It’s really shifted how I go about doing things.
I have a K700S slider and that rip fence adjustment is a complete pain in the ass! But I was finally able to get mine dialed in to a 2 thousandths of an inch toe out. It’s right where I want it now. 😁👍🏻
I need to get to mine
I live in a two bed terraced house in Northern England. My yard isn't all that big, my shed is 9'x6', or 2700x1800 in new money.
It's barely big enough for my bench, 350mm bandsaw and drill press. I'm planning on building a bigger 4800x2100 shed, but even then I wouldn't have space inside for my jobsite saw permanently set up on its folding stand.
This is why I went for a tracksaw, they're much more space efficient. When I renovate my kitchen, I'll take my living room furniture upstairs and use that room as a workshop.
Looking lean, Jason. Keep up the good work!
Appreciate it! Let myself go a bit and had to pull my head out of my a$$
I saw the K3 winner at a Dutch dealer last week. :-). I know what you mean. It would be so much safer to work with bigger pieces than with my DeWalt. Are your experiences with wood like oak and beech also as good as with sheet goods?
Slider love is real!😍
My used K500S was absolutely worth the wait.
"A table saw is as safe as you make it" is the truest statement I'm likely to hear all year. As a contractor who uses a table saw pretty much all the time, I can tell you the most dangerous thing about a table saw is lifting it. Never put your hand over the blade, use a riving knife when ripping, and always keep your pinky on the far side of the fence so as to slow down your reaction time to the same speed as your brain and eyes and you'll never ever get hurt on a table saw.
In Finland the local Felder import company provides the Felder and Format line installed by them (can be excluded as well). Hammers normally are sold as your case but they provide the installation service as well in additional price. The price of the service is something depending how much you value your own work time - can be worth the price or as in my case I would try it by myself (not professional but hobbyist). Felders and especially Format saws and other equipment are most commonly seen in professional shops anyway or the hobbyist has a thick wallet :)
Jason great video very informative. A Couple questions: 1) When you went to Felder to look at the K3 did you happen to look at the C3-41? Curious on your thoughts in your shop if you had gone that route and eliminated the A3-41? 2) Since you traditionally enjoy cabinet work and were using your assembly table to breakdown sheet goods does having the slider change your thoughts on what type of MFT/Assembly table you should have? Thanks
I didn’t consider it. I prefer to have separate machines. As for the table, I haven’t used my assembly table to break down sheet goods since getting the slider. I actually am designing a new hybrid table now.
@@bentswoodworking
I figured when you mentioned the new hybrid table on the pod cast that is why. It would be interesting to see what the difference would be from a shop layout perspective having the combo machine in a small shop. I had thought about it, but I still like the ability to move everything to the walls in my current shop to have an open area for whatever is needed at some point.
Jason, I think the K3 and A3-41 are pretty close to co-planer for the work surface. You might consider tucking the planer against the wall behind the K3. The K3 will function as your outfeed table. I have an old iron 16” Porter jointer that abuts the back of the K700 Felder. The co-planer decks makes for efficient use of precious workspace.
Hey Jason - any comments regarding sliding table saw, vs panel saw vs track saw? I make cabinets and room is not issue in my shop. Also, I do not go to job-sites, strictly work in the shop. I know everyone loves the track saw but I very nervous about repeatability and messing with the guide each time I need to make my next cut. Thank you sir.
K940S. I totally understand the frustration leveling the carriage. I do recommend staying with the splitter behind the blade and connecting a dust extracter. I agree it is a little more annoying using it as a regular table saw, the darn carriage gets in the way. Is the blade quick release option available? If so are you getting it?
Love this video can you post the part number for the auxuliary on/off button cannot find on the felder website?
Thank you I love my Hammer saw!
When I see a saw like this I’m always in awe. I don’t think I would ever buy one. But they look like a great saw. I don’t think I could justify it for my small business. But man… You do a great job of selling it. Makes me want one. LOL.
On a side note…. I really need to work on my sketch up game so I can make a model of my shop. I have an amazing size shop and I know my layout is horrible. I have so much wasted space. And way too many steps. Not to mention… my outfeed sucks! Just this weekend I ran into issues with not having the out feed I needed.
I may be able to help you with that. I am actually about to launch a service for helping with shop layout and design using sketchup as the software for it. 👍👍
@@bentswoodworking That would be fantastic! I have a pretty good size shop. But I started in a corner and keep taking over more. I am “stuck” right now. I think I’m limiting myself to what I THINK i can do. Instead of what could be.
Jason you should mention the cost of the Hammer slider you have. I think people would be surprised what they cost compared to a Sawstop
@@AngieWilliamsDesigns send me a message on IG. I’ll come down to your shop one day and see if I can help.
@@bentswoodworking Absolutely!
Thanks for a super informative video, I was seconds away from a Laguna fusion 3 , now it’s going to be a hammer k3 winner 👍👍👍
Thanks from Sweden 👍👍👍👍🎄
Glad you enjoyed it
I have a MiniMax CU410 combo and would 100% agree that the sliding table makes life so much more enjoyable.
Would you consider a slider over any other table saw or MFT table when it comes to cabinet making ?
Absolutely!!!
Can’t wait! New shop this year and my next tool will be a Nova 400, K700 or Cantek 405. Leaning towards the Cantek because it's the same cost but has the CNC rip fence.
Went with the K700S :)
Think of your fence as just another stop block, you don't always need it to go all the way up to the front of the blade with the slider. I would buy another fence and cut it down to the length of the fence guide. That way you would not have to do as much dialing in and have to worry about runout as much.
Thanks for the video. good intro to a slider.
Congratulations! Nice overview explaining the advantages of a slider. I have been a slider convert since 2004 and will never go back to a standard cabinet saw. For your biggest regret of 2024 I might suggest not building a Fritz and Franz jig as the first thing on your slider. Steve
11:56 let me personally disagree! I have a bunch of stuff on the infeed of my table saw. I have to maximize the space 😂 but I agree with your point- I would 100% get this tool!
Happy New Year, great Video. Ordered my Hammer B3 and A3-31 before Christmas and can't wait to get it. Looking forward to your review on the Hammer Bandsaw. All the very best and look forward to more of you findings and reviews this year.
Thanks, you too!
So how do you make a rip cuts with the slider? I spent the entire video waiting for you to tell us how you do that after you said that you finally realized that you should just use the slider rather than the fence. For instance, a very common occurrence is you are processing a 6 inch wide, 4 foot long, rough sawn board. After you have jointed and planed to S3S and now you want to rip it to width, say 4 inches wide. How do you make that cut on the slider?
Hi, I rip it rough using an edging shoe for the straightline and the fence for the rip about 6mm (1/4") oversize with the fence pulled back to end just after the beginning of the blade, no point jointing and planing the scraps.
Then joint one face and edge, plane the other face/edge to dimension.
When ripping above, a Fritz and Franz jig can hold the piece with you standing on the left of the sliding table without the use of push sticks or having your hands anywhere near the blade.
For larger parallel cuts, a parallel ripping device can be used in addition to the crosscut fence stop to position the wood on the slider, and can of course make non parallel rips depending upon how you position the stops.
Cool review, glad you’re happy with your new slider. I build mostly custom furniture with hardwoods. A few sheet goods but not much. The sawstop is great for me. I do have the Harvey slider and while I agree it’s not a slider, it is 100% reliable, repeatable and VERY well made and helps me the few times I need it.
I have a c3-41 combo. It has a 16 inch jointer planer. All in a 2 car garage space. It’s amazing.
Nice!!
Thank you so much for this video- been waiting for it since i you assembled the saw!!
Hope you like it!
Absolutely- knew you’d give us the straight story on how it fit the shop, its quality, and if it’s worth it. Thanks again!
Hello Mr. Bent. I'm a big fan of your videos.
Quick question: between your sliding tablesaw and your festool mft3, which one do you find most useful? If you had to pick one, which would you pick? Thanks
Slider without question!!!!
Thank you so much for responding!
See you you at your next video.
That looks like a great machine for large crosscuts and one that I might consider in the future. For now I’m working to setup a MFT with a hinged track like you have showed us so much of. Do you ever see yourself using your MFT now that you have the abilities of this new saw? Thanks for all the great content.
Where did you get the SketchUp renditions of the machines? It would be good to layout my new shop.
3D warehouse in the paid version of Sketchup
Jason, you have this, and I believe the 3xMFT table. I’m setting up a shop in the near future; what do you use the table saw for that you couldn’t do as well with a tracksaw on the MFTs?
I could do all of it at my assembly table but the slider is much faster.
Hey Bent this is an off topic question but when you’re sanding between coats of polyurethane or paint, when you sand do you use a power sander or by hand?
By hand usually
This is the video we were waiting for. Thank you!
It would be great if you could make a video where you show how you use this saw compared to a saw stop style. Thx. Nice saw.
That's a great idea for a future video!
@ I’m designing a new shop and I’m considering a slider.
Would love to see a follow up to this video on how you use it. I’m looking at one of these over a table saw for my new shop.
@ 🤣🤣 I’m filming one right now actually
Thanks for making the video! I would love to see a project example explaining how you use this sliding saw…
I have an idea I am working on for a video.
This is what I'm interested in as well. I can clearly see how this would work well for sheet goods, but I do not yet have a vision for how ripping hard woods for furniture (and such) would be done on a slider.
I’ve been waiting for this exact video from you since I saw you got it. Thank you for this in depth video.
Glad it was helpful!
So how do you rip a 8 footer? Do you use the regular fence on the right and have to remove cross fence on the out rigger each time? Please help?
his isn't long enough for that
@@AaronGeller you can make a extension jig that rides in the miter slot on slider so that when you reach the final stop on the slider you just push through with the jig to finish the rip. It's basically just a board with grooves for clamps and the slot guide. And as he pointed out you have to have the room behind the saw, so i just open the garage door :}
Hillarious, I ran into the identical issue with thinking my machine was fried after I installed. I need to get my crosscut fence aligned as well. I noticed you removed the last wing...I am thinking about doing the same thing...any regrets?
None at all. I didn’t need the 48” rip capacity
HI Jason, Very informative video. In your evaluation, you looked at the K3 slider and the A3 jointer/planer as separate machines. Is there a reason why you did not consider the C3-31 or -41 with the same option outrigger for your shop and amalgamate the footprint between the separate machines?
I have never been a fan of all the machines in one. I also had the A3-41 long before ever considering a slider.
These are nice saws, just wish they had spring loaded stops instead of flip stops. I've had a hard time finding a saw with that feature since selling my SCM/Rockwell SI-15. You are totally right in that there isn't a huge difference between a unisaw and a slider in terms of space if you set your space up right. What do you think about the difference between this saw being separate from the jointer/planer vs. a combo tool from the same company?
Nice saw, Jason! Congratulations👊! I have a cabinet saw with an incra fence similar to your old setup. I'm really curious if you miss the accuracy and repeatability of the incra? Or is it too early to evaluate?
It was nice but I am absolutely loving having a slider
@bentswoodworking Enjoy!! I've been thinking about busting open the wallet for one myself. Looking forward to more of your reviews on it!
Excellent review, these saws have intrigued me for many years. Interesting to see how their footprint is smaller than it outwardly appears. Thanks for sharing. I think I've heard you are from Indiana, me as well! Thanks again for this great review
I live in Indiana. Originally I am from Arizona. 👍
With the slider are you finding not much need for cross cutting at the mft?
Why do you not use a hood on the riving knife im interested to know as i never see one on any of these videos