The design of this is very impressive, but maybe there should be two classifications for mega-bases. One for creative no-limit bases and one for vanilla no-limit bases that have to run on a normal map, but with any settings allowed. This because the optimizations you get from doing creative stuff like limiting map size, insane ore patches at perfect locations, etc. are crazy good for UPS.
The machines stopping and going, with the progress bar kinda jumpy, is not lag at all. What happens is, due to the huge mining productivity, the machine does multiple cycles of the yellow bar within 1 or 2 frames, causing it to jump back and forwards (think of the rotation of a high speed car, sometimes you see the wheel spinning forwards, sometimes backwards. same deal here). In that time, the green bar progresses at normal speed of course. And then, the output fills up (ie, the furnace fills up), so the machine stops. Then restarts, then stops, in a cycle. All this happens in a few frames, which is what looks jumpy. When dumping into a cargo wagon, there is a bunch of space to fill up, so the machine doesn't stop and everything looks normal.
Meanwhile, the smelters are making so many plates so fast that he has stack inserters (fully upgraded, I'm guessing) pulling the plates out as fast as they can. So yes, they're jittery due to the fact that they are putting out ore faster than the smelter can convert them into plates, and faster than the upgraded stack inserter can pull them out. Of course, I, like many here, see this as perfectly acceptable. I'd rather have a backup on the supply side of things than see everything fall off because I'm producing faster than I can get the resources to be supplied.
@@117Ender Perhaps another upgrade tier for smelting? Like increasing stack size on inserters, but either increasing smelting amount or smelting speed?
I'm still running this base, it's still my favorite and still runs perfectly well even with the 1.1 update. So far I've launched nearly 1.3 million rockets and have run it about 1000 hours with a total save playtime of nearly 1100 hours.
i mean that has to be on a dedicated machine just to achieve some kinda record or something right? because there is no "playing" in a world like this lol. It's already done. it had been completed and won lol
Blaegme left a comment with "oversimplified, how does a circuit clock work". Something a bit less ELI5: You have the three combinators, a constant and two deciders. - The constant emits a signal of T=1. - The first decider (the "Tick Counter") is the one that does all the actual ticking: it checks if the input T is less than a specified value, and if true output the value of T. The output is connected to the input. - The second decider (the "Tick Checker") checks for when the input T is the exact value desired; if it is, emit [desired signal]=1. The output goes to whatever machinery is expecting that signal. Because of how circuit networks work, all input sources are summed before being analyzed by the machine; this means the Tick Counter's output T is added to the 1 T emitted by the constant combinator, resulting in getting T = T+1 on every tick. And once T hits the value the Tick Checker's looking for, you have your "every so many ticks, emit a brief one-tick-duration signal". The constant used in the Tick Counter (in this base, 1300) is used to determine the duration between the Tick Checker's pulses. Effectively, every 1300 ticks, emit a pulse of (for example) "copper plate = 1".
Clocks over simplified: Constant combinator starts clock. Next one is counter which Counts up 1 each tick. When counter reaches target value the next part outputs signal and resets counter.
It's the same minutes of disclaimer every time ore is spawned in, but the sentence you want is "The goal with this base was the design, not the grind." and you're done. It's the same idea when people decide to have biters on/off, but that's not a big deal either.
This is the best 20k SPM Vanilla map I can find. I downloaded the save yesterday and it's launched over 2,500 rockets and it still retains its 20k per minute, no complete stops or stalls like several other maps I've downloaded in the past have done. I also don't consider the spawned in resource patches as cheating, heck, you all could have made them contain 999T per patch and I'd have not minded haha. It really keeps you at 60 FPS/UPS also. Great job with this map!
It's cool to think that this was done with something coming specifically to 2.0 to help you: the stack inserter (yes it's called stack inserter, the green one is now a bulk inserter). Basically instead of clocking a bulk inserter you just place a stack inserter and it always takes a full hand of items per swing.
I find this impressive, but I think I was more impressed with his 10k base. That felt more 'legit' to me. I admire those who understand circuit networks this well, but it felt too rigid. All the same, well done on the math and sheer output, but he 1300 hours one was badass - wonder if you could ever get the creator to talk about the base a bit.
I run the sprocket and steel direct inserted instead. That really cuts down on the rail trips. Now... when ore is spawned in... green circuit production could be made this way to. Green circuit raw material is the dominating needed resources. Then steel. Green is 1:2,5 stacks 200... and steel is 1;5 and stacks 100. So both is a 5 times reduction for plates and 10 times for ore. The downside is that you cant abuse the productivity in the base. But most greens are just run into blues (and some into speed). Having a optimization that reduce the volume as fast as possible makes the boot trips less costly.
Most things in factorio operate with zero lag, issues, yes. Only construction bots get regularly laggy when the construction queue gets too big, and certain situations when biters/turrets go to sleep. Thats pretty much it. Everything else is more or less a perfect simulation with every update doing the same thing no matter how much madness is happening on your map, its why factorio is great.
I love playing vanilla with everything. I understand everyone has other stuff irl to do. Go ahead and cheat items in, disable bugs and pollution. We're here for a good time, not a complicated time lol. I know I'm late but I would love to see the pollution stats with factories. Love that big red cherry in the middle of my map lol
Seems to me that the high productivity bonus contributes majorly to such an event production the science packs the most. If you think about it, the machines are producing more items through productivity than regular output. This means fewer machines to be used. I can see this being UPS friendly
It's exciting to see someone else build the way I do (minus the hand-placed resources.) 💖 This is what a "modular" base has always been to me too. Doing the modules based on the product always felt like I was chasing my tail. Want to ramp up from 5k to 6k? Ugh. It'll likely involve going around and refactoring all of your builds to one degree or another. Contrast that with merely stamping down additional balanced modules like these. 😁 Swolar's level of optimization and attention to detail is impressive. 👍
nice build. the one thing that bugs me, when you spawn ore patches, why so far away? couldve easily saved a few thousand underground belts just for the stone.
Presumably because it was meant to simulate a realistic base design, but without the grind. Otherwise, you could do crazy stuff like direct miner to furnace insertion.
That's the problem with cheating. My base is at 12G copper cables but I did that while having to train in the ores. And when you get to big basses then ore transportation and rail network is a major portion of the problem.
I agree... I respect this build, but the problem is not having a contained small build and tile it 200 times... having a proper resource logistic network is the hard part in make a giant factory work.
I think you have to look at something like this as not so much cheating, but a "best practices in a best possible world" to show ways to maximize your build. Personally, I usually make my megabases either vanilla default or rail world or death world, and and I have pollution and biters, so I don't come close to these numbers, but I still respect the work done to min/max that they did.
@@Dethfeast Yes, but the information is useless to you as you can't build it that way, and if you try you loose it's effeminacy because of the compromises you have to make to make it work in the default game. It's effectively the same as using those infinite chests. Just think how much smaller your base could be and therefor all the ups you would save.
5:42 its caused because the output is not fast enough.. f.e if the iron mine created 10 ores /s and can output only 5 ore/s because the smelting mashine is full .. then this happens.
I see a lot if not most mega bases use Solar. Is that cause it's actually better in the long run on a large scale? Or is it purely for the higher frame rate?
Its just for UPS since the calculation for solar panels/accumulators is basically just multiplied by the amount of solar panels/accumulators so its very efficient to be calculated. Nuclear on the other hand needs to calculate the water/steam/heat for all the pipes you use thus requiring more compute time.
The ores do matter, only that part will make factory forget ab 20 more ups... U will need hundreds of outpost only for iron which will make u reveal soo much map... So saying that it doesn't matter for ups is not realistic... It doesn't matter for the construction of factory
I think it's sections are completely viable. You could probably even do it at this scale on a normal map but it definitely wouldn't be getting 60ups just because of the amount of trains and travel distance needed for all the Ore patches
Self-contained, these are definitely very effective bases. But it is foreseeable that they will fail due to biters against which you have to defend yourself permanently, but above all due to the delivery routes, which become longer and longer. On normal maps you also have water and cliffs, which you may have to deal with the longer delivery distances. The systems are perfectly harmonized and seem to forgive no discontinuity.
Your hardware may not be ideal for Factorio, whereas I basically built my computer for that. You need a a CPU with the best single thread performance, more threads doesn't help much with Factorio, and also very low latency RAM that's a high speed.
All fine with cheating the construction of the base, but at least have the raw resources come from outside of it, like a normal base would have. Cause I bet if you can put miners straight into machines and have an optimal configuration just spawning resources wherever you please you can get away with a lot more than having to travel huge distances to bring said resources in and dealing with all its logistics.
but this is soo much like cheating...wtf? for 20k sience u need soooo many outposts for mining that are very far away. the travel time of the trains alone will make u need more outposts so ur factory doesnt run dry in that time
Travel time? Just add more trains to keep it constant. Its a no-problem. With Mining production infinite science you start getting HUGE outputs from a single miner already after a couple of 100 researches of it. Also a no-problem.
No it isn't. The resource patches are less sparse and smaller than vanilla. You can build this base vanilla with the same UPS or better, by running around and finding good spots. I did this for my 0.16 10k spm megabase. It is just super time consuming and I'd rather use that time for UPS testing. The thing about factorio is that labs are very OP. They produce research anywhere on the map, no need for them to be together. This makes modular bases very good for UPS since it massively cuts down on train travel. Bringing all the ore to one place for a megabase size is poor logistics.
Assuming you're on Windows, open an Explorer window (My Computer or some other folder works fine). In the address bar type in %AppData%\Roaming\Factorio
"Some may consider using editor tools cheating, but personally I don't think it is, because.. uh.. it couldn't be done otherwise. I think". Lol. Dude. It IS cheating. If that's not cheating, nothing is. Maybe you find cheating OK, but it is still cheating
Sorry but spawning infinite ore patches exactly where you need them is as cheaty as it can get! It's a cool blueprint but not even proof of concept, I have this concept in my base for many years already. Sadly the recipes changed and I have to redesign it but as I'm not actively playing anymore that didn't happen yet. Cool blueprint but definitely cheated. I have 2300% prod in my base. Was always vanilla ofc. On top extra far away ore patches as they grow in density. 1 billion ore patches with 1 billion capacity and 60 wagon long trains supplying extreme distribution centres into smaller trains.
The design of this is very impressive, but maybe there should be two classifications for mega-bases. One for creative no-limit bases and one for vanilla no-limit bases that have to run on a normal map, but with any settings allowed. This because the optimizations you get from doing creative stuff like limiting map size, insane ore patches at perfect locations, etc. are crazy good for UPS.
or 2 classifications raw and ups mega bases, ups base is how big can it go without killing the ups and raw being vanilla and how big can it go
The machines stopping and going, with the progress bar kinda jumpy, is not lag at all.
What happens is, due to the huge mining productivity, the machine does multiple cycles of the yellow bar within 1 or 2 frames, causing it to jump back and forwards (think of the rotation of a high speed car, sometimes you see the wheel spinning forwards, sometimes backwards. same deal here).
In that time, the green bar progresses at normal speed of course. And then, the output fills up (ie, the furnace fills up), so the machine stops. Then restarts, then stops, in a cycle. All this happens in a few frames, which is what looks jumpy.
When dumping into a cargo wagon, there is a bunch of space to fill up, so the machine doesn't stop and everything looks normal.
Meanwhile, the smelters are making so many plates so fast that he has stack inserters (fully upgraded, I'm guessing) pulling the plates out as fast as they can. So yes, they're jittery due to the fact that they are putting out ore faster than the smelter can convert them into plates, and faster than the upgraded stack inserter can pull them out. Of course, I, like many here, see this as perfectly acceptable. I'd rather have a backup on the supply side of things than see everything fall off because I'm producing faster than I can get the resources to be supplied.
@@YanouUTG would love for moss to come out to increase smelting as well as stack inserters to help maximize output
@@117Ender Perhaps another upgrade tier for smelting? Like increasing stack size on inserters, but either increasing smelting amount or smelting speed?
I'm still running this base, it's still my favorite and still runs perfectly well even with the 1.1 update. So far I've launched nearly 1.3 million rockets and have run it about 1000 hours with a total save playtime of nearly 1100 hours.
Have you purchased factorio more than once to to actually play on a different computer while this thing is running 24h?
i mean that has to be on a dedicated machine just to achieve some kinda record or something right? because there is no "playing" in a world like this lol. It's already done. it had been completed and won lol
Blaegme left a comment with "oversimplified, how does a circuit clock work". Something a bit less ELI5:
You have the three combinators, a constant and two deciders.
- The constant emits a signal of T=1.
- The first decider (the "Tick Counter") is the one that does all the actual ticking: it checks if the input T is less than a specified value, and if true output the value of T. The output is connected to the input.
- The second decider (the "Tick Checker") checks for when the input T is the exact value desired; if it is, emit [desired signal]=1. The output goes to whatever machinery is expecting that signal.
Because of how circuit networks work, all input sources are summed before being analyzed by the machine; this means the Tick Counter's output T is added to the 1 T emitted by the constant combinator, resulting in getting T = T+1 on every tick. And once T hits the value the Tick Checker's looking for, you have your "every so many ticks, emit a brief one-tick-duration signal".
The constant used in the Tick Counter (in this base, 1300) is used to determine the duration between the Tick Checker's pulses. Effectively, every 1300 ticks, emit a pulse of (for example) "copper plate = 1".
Clocks over simplified: Constant combinator starts clock.
Next one is counter which Counts up 1 each tick.
When counter reaches target value the next part outputs signal and resets counter.
It's the same minutes of disclaimer every time ore is spawned in, but the sentence you want is "The goal with this base was the design, not the grind." and you're done. It's the same idea when people decide to have biters on/off, but that's not a big deal either.
Yep I kept fast-forwarding to get past the disclaimers but they went on and on. We love the beautiful factories no matter how they were grown!
This is the best 20k SPM Vanilla map I can find. I downloaded the save yesterday and it's launched over 2,500 rockets and it still retains its 20k per minute, no complete stops or stalls like several other maps I've downloaded in the past have done. I also don't consider the spawned in resource patches as cheating, heck, you all could have made them contain 999T per patch and I'd have not minded haha. It really keeps you at 60 FPS/UPS also. Great job with this map!
Base is invaild in my books as its not a real map, so only a step away from creative mode.
It’s a single player game, nothing wrong with it. It’s designing a vanilla base that can run at 60ups for 20k spm. That’s a design challenge.
I consider this a Vanilla base still. No mods are needed to run it.
It's cool to think that this was done with something coming specifically to 2.0 to help you: the stack inserter (yes it's called stack inserter, the green one is now a bulk inserter). Basically instead of clocking a bulk inserter you just place a stack inserter and it always takes a full hand of items per swing.
I find this impressive, but I think I was more impressed with his 10k base. That felt more 'legit' to me. I admire those who understand circuit networks this well, but it felt too rigid. All the same, well done on the math and sheer output, but he 1300 hours one was badass - wonder if you could ever get the creator to talk about the base a bit.
I run the sprocket and steel direct inserted instead. That really cuts down on the rail trips.
Now... when ore is spawned in... green circuit production could be made this way to.
Green circuit raw material is the dominating needed resources. Then steel.
Green is 1:2,5 stacks 200... and steel is 1;5 and stacks 100. So both is a 5 times reduction for plates and 10 times for ore.
The downside is that you cant abuse the productivity in the base. But most greens are just run into blues (and some into speed).
Having a optimization that reduce the volume as fast as possible makes the boot trips less costly.
I guess the miners aren't laggy, the furnace is filled within two ticks?
thats too my thought, I wonder if these can be more efficient?
Precisely: nothing is laggy or lagging. They are just simply waiting most of the time, because there is no space in their output.
Most things in factorio operate with zero lag, issues, yes. Only construction bots get regularly laggy when the construction queue gets too big, and certain situations when biters/turrets go to sleep. Thats pretty much it. Everything else is more or less a perfect simulation with every update doing the same thing no matter how much madness is happening on your map, its why factorio is great.
I love playing vanilla with everything. I understand everyone has other stuff irl to do. Go ahead and cheat items in, disable bugs and pollution.
We're here for a good time, not a complicated time lol. I know I'm late but I would love to see the pollution stats with factories. Love that big red cherry in the middle of my map lol
Seems to me that the high productivity bonus contributes majorly to such an event production the science packs the most. If you think about it, the machines are producing more items through productivity than regular output. This means fewer machines to be used. I can see this being UPS friendly
It's exciting to see someone else build the way I do (minus the hand-placed resources.) 💖 This is what a "modular" base has always been to me too.
Doing the modules based on the product always felt like I was chasing my tail. Want to ramp up from 5k to 6k? Ugh. It'll likely involve going around and refactoring all of your builds to one degree or another. Contrast that with merely stamping down additional balanced modules like these. 😁
Swolar's level of optimization and attention to detail is impressive. 👍
nice build. the one thing that bugs me, when you spawn ore patches, why so far away? couldve easily saved a few thousand underground belts just for the stone.
That's a good point actually. I'm not sure on that.
Presumably because it was meant to simulate a realistic base design, but without the grind. Otherwise, you could do crazy stuff like direct miner to furnace insertion.
This is amazing, BUT:
- 0:57 is wrong: there are no military science packs
That's the problem with cheating. My base is at 12G copper cables but I did that while having to train in the ores. And when you get to big basses then ore transportation and rail network is a major portion of the problem.
I agree... I respect this build, but the problem is not having a contained small build and tile it 200 times... having a proper resource logistic network is the hard part in make a giant factory work.
I think you have to look at something like this as not so much cheating, but a "best practices in a best possible world" to show ways to maximize your build. Personally, I usually make my megabases either vanilla default or rail world or death world, and and I have pollution and biters, so I don't come close to these numbers, but I still respect the work done to min/max that they did.
@@Dethfeast Yes, but the information is useless to you as you can't build it that way, and if you try you loose it's effeminacy because of the compromises you have to make to make it work in the default game.
It's effectively the same as using those infinite chests. Just think how much smaller your base could be and therefor all the ups you would save.
5:42 its caused because the output is not fast enough.. f.e if the iron mine created 10 ores /s and can output only 5 ore/s because the smelting mashine is full .. then this happens.
It means "not equal".
If this still runs at 60UPS how much headroom is there to go even bigger could thsi be expanded to 25k maybe 30k SPM?
Also, I noticed there's no military/gray science in this map. You'll have to spawn in the Spidertron with a console command haha.
I see a lot if not most mega bases use Solar. Is that cause it's actually better in the long run on a large scale? Or is it purely for the higher frame rate?
Its just for UPS since the calculation for solar panels/accumulators is basically just multiplied by the amount of solar panels/accumulators so its very efficient to be calculated. Nuclear on the other hand needs to calculate the water/steam/heat for all the pipes you use thus requiring more compute time.
The ores do matter, only that part will make factory forget ab 20 more ups... U will need hundreds of outpost only for iron which will make u reveal soo much map... So saying that it doesn't matter for ups is not realistic... It doesn't matter for the construction of factory
I wonder how viable this base or its sections are on a normal map.
I think it's sections are completely viable.
You could probably even do it at this scale on a normal map but it definitely wouldn't be getting 60ups just because of the amount of trains and travel distance needed for all the Ore patches
Because it the insane production bonus... you really dont need that insane of a patch
Self-contained, these are definitely very effective bases. But it is foreseeable that they will fail due to biters against which you have to defend yourself permanently, but above all due to the delivery routes, which become longer and longer.
On normal maps you also have water and cliffs, which you may have to deal with the longer delivery distances.
The systems are perfectly harmonized and seem to forgive no discontinuity.
May I ask your computer configuration
please reply thank you
Sure.
i7 9700k, 1080Ti, 16gb RAM at 3200mhz and CL 14. 1TB SSD.
perfect video: Factorio Base Tour - Swolar's 20k SPM at 60 UPS Creative Gigabase
"20k SPM at 60 UPS" I'm not sure about my potato...
How did you get 60 ups? I got only 50 and my hw is fast.
Haxx
Optimization
Your hardware may not be ideal for Factorio, whereas I basically built my computer for that.
You need a a CPU with the best single thread performance, more threads doesn't help much with Factorio, and also very low latency RAM that's a high speed.
@@Xterminator do a talk about optimizing hw for factorio?
Where do i find the base to download? Or is he keeping it private? Also would be interested in the blueprints.
Links are in the reddit post in the description
Dislike the copy/paste/ore spawned in. Also dislike the mixed use of belts/bots.
All fine with cheating the construction of the base, but at least have the raw resources come from outside of it, like a normal base would have. Cause I bet if you can put miners straight into machines and have an optimal configuration just spawning resources wherever you please you can get away with a lot more than having to travel huge distances to bring said resources in and dealing with all its logistics.
but this is soo much like cheating...wtf?
for 20k sience u need soooo many outposts for mining that are very far away. the travel time of the trains alone will make u need more outposts so ur factory doesnt run dry in that time
Travel time? Just add more trains to keep it constant. Its a no-problem. With Mining production infinite science you start getting HUGE outputs from a single miner already after a couple of 100 researches of it. Also a no-problem.
No it isn't. The resource patches are less sparse and smaller than vanilla. You can build this base vanilla with the same UPS or better, by running around and finding good spots. I did this for my 0.16 10k spm megabase. It is just super time consuming and I'd rather use that time for UPS testing.
The thing about factorio is that labs are very OP. They produce research anywhere on the map, no need for them to be together. This makes modular bases very good for UPS since it massively cuts down on train travel. Bringing all the ore to one place for a megabase size is poor logistics.
does anyone know how to download these savefiles on these vids i have tried but i cant find the savefiles folder on my computer for factorio
Assuming you're on Windows, open an Explorer window (My Computer or some other folder works fine). In the address bar type in %AppData%\Roaming\Factorio
It is cheating!
Not really.
Almost all megabases are built using creative mode to begin with.
@@MrPatrickbuit year, but it's sad.
"Some may consider using editor tools cheating, but personally I don't think it is, because.. uh.. it couldn't be done otherwise. I think".
Lol.
Dude. It IS cheating. If that's not cheating, nothing is. Maybe you find cheating OK, but it is still cheating
Sorry but spawning infinite ore patches exactly where you need them is as cheaty as it can get! It's a cool blueprint but not even proof of concept, I have this concept in my base for many years already. Sadly the recipes changed and I have to redesign it but as I'm not actively playing anymore that didn't happen yet. Cool blueprint but definitely cheated. I have 2300% prod in my base. Was always vanilla ofc. On top extra far away ore patches as they grow in density. 1 billion ore patches with 1 billion capacity and 60 wagon long trains supplying extreme distribution centres into smaller trains.
Delete his comments
Cheating, lol. hows it cheating it's an option within the game hahaha