Thank goodness for computers on those locomotives or on the NS we would have never got air conditioning. NS did not get a/c for the crews, it was to keep the computers from overheating and shuts g down.
@@MarkClayMcGowan We had two run thru trains that we got from the UP and old SP in New Orleans, La., and if we got a engine with a/c from them, our trip got 100 per cent better. Sitting in a side track in between to big hills, sun shining, 90 degrees, waiting three hours on the passenger train to come by was no problem.
@@michaelball760 we ran our SD 40’s with long hood forward or backwards. Long nose forward, had to have windows open, and just sucking in exhaust smoke and heat.
When we first started getting GE C40-8s at CSX they specifically ordered NO AIR CONDITIONING because of the additional maintenance costs. Even though GE told them that AC was designed to cool the onboard electronics. (human health and comfort is the very least concern) CSX relented and began equipping locomotives with AC only after it became clear that GE was right about the onboard electronics.
And another story from Mark on the run. As a welder I can see the short comings when the temp rises those rails would go wild. Thanks for the show and your time. Paul
I failed to mention that rail is stressed or destressed when installed at what is called neutral temperature that allows a certain amount of movement either way before kinking or breaking.
Nice video Mark, I remember that well when the air temp got to a certain point we had to go out and do a hot weather inspection in the afternoons in our part of the country. We enjoyed watching and have a great rest of your day.
That is pretty cool! I wasn't aware of heat restrictions, but what you said about longitudinal movement and the impact on supporting structures makes perfect sense. Thank you :)
Very interesting Mark I never knew anything about heat restrictions. We can get up to 120, but that's usually the heat index. With the humidity & everything.
The only city up in the north valley that reached 120 or higher was 121 deg on 8-7-1981 in Red Bluff, CA. But from living up here for 30 years, once it hits 110, above that it doesn't matter.🥵🥵 I learn something from every one of your videos. Thanks!
They help just because they are so heavy and provide a stronger anchor in the track structure. It's important to remember that a sun kink isn't a rail issue, it's a weak track structure issue.
It was great to meet you at the Keene Cafe a bit ago. Loved the video on the SLO Railroad Museum, and really enjoy the duration on this video. Living on the UP Coast Line, we love seeing all of the trains in your videos . Most of our freight trains have been removed. Thanks again for being so warm when we came across each other. Take care!
Thank you! It was great meeting the two of you. I love just randomly running into subscribers. I'm glad you enjoyed the SLO museum piece. I wish there were still through freights running the coast. Maybe I'll catch some of the locals one day!
Thank you, Mark. It’s always a treat to see you out there sharing all of this great train operating information and history. I have a question about the engines beyond what you presented regarding speed restrictions. One person commented on Norfolk Southern’s putting A/C in the cabs for the good of the computers. I was just wondering about the impact the heat has on the prime movers, alternators, inverters, electric motors, and other associated equipment? I know you’re not a locomotive guy, but I ‘m just curious if the engines have more frequent breakdowns and electrical problems. Again, Thank you!
SP was installing AC on the older power in the mid 80s and it was standard on all new power after that. I find it unusual that a road would not order AC in new cabs over the last 35 years as it adds very little cost to overall price of a locomotive. Probably less a percentage of cost than a new car. But, I have heard some whacky things about the NS. Thanks for checking it out!
When I hired 25 years ago, NS MAYBE had 200 locomotives in it's entire fleet that had A/C and those were the new dash 9's and they never maintained them. Never cleaned the filters etc. All the foreign locomotives had A/C. We actually were issued shit bags that were numbered and assigned to you. You'd do your thing in a bag and then put it in a bucket. Imagine doing that in the middle of July on a locomotive with no A/C with the windows wide open blowing sand in the whole time!!! The last 10 years or so have improved.
Hey Mark great job with the information you share of the railroads. I have a question for you. How much is a new modern Railroad engine? plus about how many maximum railroad cars? Thanks again. Robert over and out.
Locomotives vary in price depending on the type, but the road engines are about $2 million each. I would imagine railcars vary even more depending on type, but I've really never been involved in a discussion about the costs. Thanks for checking it out!
Do the temperatures at which these are issued vary by location? We've been getting level 2 restrictions around my area recently with temps between 95 and 100 and heat indexes in excess of 110
I think so. The Special System Instructions do not specify system wide temperature parameters, but it does have exceptions for subdivision restrictions, which probably vary, as you suggested.
3:44 Consist error code. Always place empty centerbeams on the rear of the train. In this case it was just one but more than one is looking for trouble. 😁
Hi Mark, I was at Fresno Amtrak (BNSF track) and noticed little silver boxes with the word "shunt" painted on , placed beside the track at switch points. Was wondering if you know what this equipment is?
Those are the termination shunts for crossing approaches. A train approaching the crossing activates the controller at the crossing when they pass these. A train moving away puts the controller back in passive mode. The higher the track speed, the further out the shunts are. Here is a video about how crossings work in which I touch on the shunts. th-cam.com/video/YkzYMi-PY5U/w-d-xo.html
The spot where the bridge and the roadbed meet is called a "dump", It is where the bridge dumps the track off into the ballast section. Just thought you would like to know????
It would be interesting to know what you guys stress your rail too? In the UK , its stressed to be stress free at 27 degrees C. This is the ballance we use so that it can withstand the heat in summer and not break apart in winter. Like you mentioned though, 110 F for us would be an issue.
As I understand it, FRED is supposed to blink at all times. If it isn't, there is something wrong with the unit. Can we get some input from out train service friends here?
the coefficient of expansion on the 1/4 mile welded rail has to be massive! they are around ~1270 feet long acting as a single length piece, with say a 30 degree variation it must move feet. thank you for the great topic of weather effects upon the rails. what was the condition called sun king? or something like that. have a great weekend and be safe out there! barry
Coefficient thermal expansion for 'mild steel' approx 1" for every 100 degrees F per 100 ft. Ex: 1000 ft long bridge , expected thermal highs and lows 150degree F (-30dgF to 105dgF) winter to summer. Approx 15" of expansion/ contraction per the span of 1000ft. 🇺🇸🤔🇺🇸
In the early 90s we started using the term "track buckle" to describe an expansion- caused misalignment. The rail clips on concrete ties and rail anchors on wood ties attempt to restrain the longitudinal expansion/contraction of the rail, thus the force infused from the thermal change results in the force that can lead to track misalignment. There was a video some time ago of a test to induce a track kink or buckle. The track was straight until the force of heat induced expansion that exceeded the limit of all the restraint (rail anchors, ballast, etc) and the track "buckled" into an S shape. Scary stuff! One other factor is wave propagation As the railcar rolls along the car weight depressed the track structure as the truck wheels move. The flexing of the track structure induces a sine wave that proceeds each truck.
Mark, how does the form B work at night if there is no work crew on the site? Or do they work around the clock until the job is done? Do they lay down the signs they put up to alert the train crews to the form B?
A Form B is not left in effect unless someone is there to cover it whether night or day (it is common to issue a Form B for night work). These gangs know how long it will take them to complete a specific job and allow for that. If, however, things were to go sideways, the Form B would be cancelled at the appointed time and another form of on track protection would be issued until it was safe to run trains. Thanks for checking it out!
He Mark, the sound of that mic was not good, until 11:12 There the sound was perfect. So I do not know what you have changed there, but keep it that way. And yes these high temperatures pose a lot of problems, not only in the USA, but worldwide. We had an extreme dry summer and high temperatures, but this year not above 100 degr F. We had temps up to 103 F several years ago, but only 1 day. But climate is changing, and we all will face the consequences. Here in the Netherlands there are some special rail dividers to allow for rail extension by high temperatures. But you would need a lot of those dividers.
I am so used to shouting to be heard, I was doing it with the mic (I actually lowered the audio level by 40% in the editing) as well. I went over some of the video while the second train was going by and realized what I was doing, so I simply spoke normally in the last segment. We have much more trouble with broken rails in cold weather than with sun kinks in the heat. We set no high temp records in the valley, no consecutive days over 100, or total days over 100 (we're not even close) this year, but we did have the warmest July on record by one degree.
Hi Mark another great video hope you and your family are doing great question for you the location that you were filming what was all that stuff that was directly behind you for? I passed that when I go to the drag races at Famoso and I always wonder what it is for thank you sir
It doesn't get hot enough back there. Rail is only affected by the actual temperature and is unaffected by humidity. Still, I don't envy you your heat indexes! I'll take 110 @10% any day over 90 @90%!
@@MarkClayMcGowan I worked for CSX out of Baltimore in the '00s, and before that for Amtrak, mostly in the Northeast Corridor. Both have/had heat restriction procedures for days over 90 F. The hours were less (1300 to 1900), and not as specific for territory as UP's. I can't find my last rule book, and it's late, but it reduces speed for trains between 10 and 20 mph depending on their maximum allowable speed, but not below 30 mph in any case. Amtrak in the NEC was reducing max speed for passenger trains to 80 mph from 120 (which just killed on-time performance for the old Metroliner service in the '80s and '90s). While it never gets to 110 F in the Mid-Atlantic, it does reach 100 at least several days/year, and some years maybe 30 days or more. I'm glad to be back in NE Ohio, where it NEVER gets to 100 degrees (thank you Lake Erie!), but give us time with global climate change and that will probably no longer be true in a few years.
Thanks! I appreciate the subscription! Yeah, the whole valley is suffering right now, but it looks like it's going to start winding down this weekend...finally!
Never ran heat restrictions for 110 degree and above rail temp on NS after we had all of our heat adjustments complete. Until those heat adjustments were finished we would slow order areas where excessive rail was added during winter months
It's not about the rail temperature. It's about the air temperature, NOT including heat indexes. All rail on all class 1 roads is laid at a neutral temperature regardless of the time of year it is laid, but that doesn't account for weak spots in track structure, and that is what heat restrictions are there for. Thanks for checking it out!
Neat to see the train booking like that. Just stumbled on the videos also...That can be referred to as a "double bonus". See others by a guy who films down in Cajon Pass. Nice to see this one as I'm one of those "weather dudes". Hehe! Follow stuff like that regularly. 😁
So What is the best way to run during hot weather unimpeded? 1. lighter trains? 2. stronger continuous track structures? 3.hotter Forged rail? (I remember a video saying in the SE they forged their rail hotter to prevent buckling, but other places didn't because of the typical expected weather need (if that's true i don't know, I think I heard of that when I was a teenager))
It doesn't matter. As long as there is no heat restriction, trains run unimpeded. You can't run freight trains in the "no restrictions" category "just in case". A short Local exceeds that standard. I don't know about rail tempered differently, but that doesn't mean they don't do it. Since rail only reacts to true air temperature and not heat index temperature, I don't know why SE roads would need to take that precaution, but again, that's just a guess on my part. Thanks for checking it out!
Expansion and contraction of tail obeys the physic of the change of temperature of the of the rail and the coefficient of expansion per inch of the particular metallurgy. Rail is shaped by forging a hot "bar" of steel thought a die, somewhat like running a pencil in a pencil sharpener to reshape the graphite pencil lead. The hot bar of steel is rolled through the forging form and takes the shape desired for the rail head, web and base while at several at several hundred degrees. After the rail cools to through the entire process, it takes on whatever ambient temperature it is stored in and continues to expand and contract when unrestrained. Once rail becomes part of the track structure in a railroad, railroaders fuss with mile-plus lengths trying to restrain the rails to minimize this expansion and contraction, a natural desire and habit of metal, with remarkable success. One might say it is a "fool's errand," but welded strings of rail tend to make trains run faster and quieter. One day we will overcome flat spots on wheels and the squeel of flanges in a curve!
I worked for the C&NW for 3 months in 1969 in the car department cooping boxcars to hold grain. Every 15 minutes they’d make us get out of the cars for five minutes.
They run them slower so they are more easily able to see and react to structure issues. The last one I worked at Earlimart happened at 103 degrees, so there was no restriction.
The rail temperature is only relevant when it is laid or repaired. That used to be measured with a direct contact thermometer, but may be with something like what you mentioned these days. Heat restrictions are about protecting against weak track structure. If the structure is solid, the normal expansion of rail will not affect it, and seldom does. Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan , rail temp is MOST relevant when being laid or repaired. it is also something we checked during e v e r y heatrun. but i was speaking of entertaining your audience.
In Canada a branch line subdivision that has bolted rail and track speed is of 35mph or less is restricted to 15 mph when temp reaches 77F. When temperature is 86F it is restricted to 10 pm to 10 am and 10 mph. Most tie or rail or ballast programs are done 7pm to 9 am if in summer time
Heck! That's sweater weather down here! Seriously though, with the temperatures being much cooler up there, ambient and neutral temps are surely much lower, which makes perfect sense.
GE (General Electric) locomotives have Trip Optimizer. EMD (General Motors) locomotives have what you call LEADER. It's a cruise control system designed to conserve fuel (reduce emissions) and is SUPPOSED to control in-train draft and buff forces better but most of the time that's not the case. The computer operates the train after the engineer enters/processes all the information (tonnage, length, axles, operative brakes, loads, empty's, locomotives used for power or isolated) in the computer. It is a clear signal operation. The engineer at times will take over and operate manually under certain conditions. You have to pay attention to it all the time because it will speed and make interesting decisions in regards to "proper train handling." IMO...the railroads could give 2 S%#ts about any of that. It's just a way to eventually not have anyone on a train so they could obviously eliminate jobs.
@@huntersquires7107 Thanks. That sounds like the Flight Management System on a jet. My stepbrother is an engineer at N.S. I don't get to talk to him much anymore, however, I am amazed at how similar the 2 industries are. The job, the rules, training, etc.
Trip Optimizer actually creates work and employment. When it is chugging up a hill at 30mph in throttle 5 and another train is waiting for it for 20 mins. Do that a few times and you are houred out and replaced with another crew. TO creates work and may save OR burn more fuel.
It's amazing what heat will do to rails. The forces behind all that heated metal is truly amazing. Once it kinks, hold on !! It looks like new rail behind you. Is that 136 lb ?? (Still got your F-150?)
This rail was laid around 2017, but with very few curves an no grades, rail in the valley lasts a very long time. Yes, it is 136 (although some 141 was laid in that project), and yes, I still have the F-150.
My name is Robert I have lived in Bakersfield my whole life. I would totally love to meet up at the kern county museum to talk about the historical locations and operations the steam locamotive SP TW-8 4-8-0 Mastadon 2914 did in area. Ever since i was a child I have been fascinated by this engine and i would love to learn more about its operational history. I also in the past done videography with companies and would totally volunteer to help film the episode and take video of my own that i can send to you if you would like.
Very hot that you should share about sun kinks and heat restrictions. Some of my fellow railfans never knew about this and when I tried to share it with them they looked at me as though I was retarded. Anyway, thanks for sharing that and I like the mic..
Interesting However the rules talked about weight of engine and or cars being below or abouve 90 Tons. I had been told I guess incorrect info in late 90s 105 thousand Lbs per car was general limit. 90 tons is 180 thousand Lbs// Does anyone know the max weight of a railroad car??? I kind of figured the 105 was wrong as it did not add up to even close to engine weight even if extra axles and wheels on engines were accounted for. In 70s lager engines I recal were about 800 thousand or 400 tons. Less than a fully loaded and fueld 747. One 747 - 8 took off from Edwards AFB at 1.2 million Lbs.
Different car types have different weights and capacities. The tare and max weights are shown on the cars. It seems the average tare of cars is 25-30 tons. I believe the weight of a modern road engine is around 200-250 tons. Thanks for checking it out
That's why the detectors announce the ambience temperature. I live in the southern desert of Arizona along the Union Pacific Sunset Route. I know about heat.
In Europe they started to color the rails in white with a eco-friendly paint some years ago . It takes off about 6-8*C … Watch ; th-cam.com/video/GBMWHAkk6xM/w-d-xo.html
American railroads (other than Amtrak, which operates very little of its own road) are not funded by the government and are not going to spend the money, time and resources it would take to paint rails white. Also, I would argue that white is an eco-friendly color as the railroads here pass through very diverse environments. Also, unless the ties and ballast were also white (or whatever color was chosen), what difference would it make? Thanks for the info and for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Trains roll on rails made of flexible steel , steel is expanding in heat , heat transforms straight rails into a roller coaster. Bring down the temperature of the rails prevent deformation. The ties and ballast have nothing to do with it. This is done once a year, like a normal maintenance procedure…
@@aoilpe I'm sorry, but if you don't think track structure has anything to do with the movement of rails, you don't understand the engineering of railroads. Track structure is the ONLY thing that keeps rails in place. If what you say is accurate, ballast would be unnecessary. Also, you're comparing European railroads to American railroads. They aren't built to handle the same kinds of traffic, but I can't imagine European engineers and track departments don't take structure into consideration when designing, building and maintaining their railroads.
@@MarkClayMcGowan Haven’t you heard of “Fixed -railway” where concrete replaces ballast? Do you not understand that ballast don’t expand in heat as steel does? Do you understand the purpose of ballast for railways?
Yes, I have heard of concrete roadbeds. Mainline railroads here do not use them. I didn't say ballast expanded, I said it has weak spots than can move laterally (that means "side to side") in certain circumstances, as when RAIL expands in extreme heat and has nowhere else to go. Painting 136# rail white would make little difference in 115 degree heat (like we had here in Bakersfield yesterday). Rail is laid at neutral temperature to account for expansion and contraction, and all things being equal, it will be fine, but changing ballast conditions cannot be accounted for. I spent 40 years with the railroad in the signal department working side by side with track forces, and I worked a few derailments caused by sun kinks. I have forgotten more about American railroading than you will ever know. Also, you are still comparing European freight railroads to American roads. They have virtually nothing in common. That's why Europeans come here to railfan and not the other way around.
I can get hotter than that in the desert. When I had the Daggett to Vegas territory I worked a few times in 120+ temperatures. Track structures can fail at just about any temperature given the right circumstances, but this video was about heat restrictions. Thanks for checking it out!
Never heard about Heat Restrictions on the Railroad but we’ve seen what the Extreme Heat does to Pavement and an Excessive Number of Water Main Breaks.
What you gotta unjderstand his UPRR don't give a dam about 110 degrees for level one. It doesn't get 110 degrees isn many places on the UP in Summer. Usuall the dispatcher puts out a heat level restriction in early June and it comes off the middle of October, nobody checks the temperature. I liked it in the winter when the rail would shrink and break. I got a lot of toe-in / overtime. There is absolutely no incentive for getting a train over the road you lose money.
Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. In the 40 years I worked there, I never heard of a heat restriction being issued for the whole summer and half the fall. It actually reaches 110 in many places on the UP , and 120 in some. Also, these are FRA standards and apply to ALL class 1 railroads, not just UP. All track inspectors (and signal employees, like I was) are issued Kestral temp/humidity/wind speed indicators to stay on top of those things for many reasons, one of which is temperature. Once a heat restriction is in place, no one NEEDS to check the temperature. It remains in place until removed, no matter what the temperature is. Trains lose money by delivering freight? Yeah, it's all a conspiracy...to what end? I don't usually reply to comments in a negative manner, but yours is particularly uninformed and annoying.
Thank goodness for computers on those locomotives or on the NS we would have never got air conditioning. NS did not get a/c for the crews, it was to keep the computers from overheating and shuts g down.
Really? SP started installing cab AC back in the mid 80s.
@@MarkClayMcGowan our old SD40's have had in cab a/c as far back as I remember.
@@MarkClayMcGowan We had two run thru trains that we got from the UP and old SP in New Orleans, La., and if we got a engine with a/c from them, our trip got 100 per cent better. Sitting in a side track in between to big hills, sun shining, 90 degrees, waiting three hours on the passenger train to come by was no problem.
@@michaelball760 we ran our SD 40’s with long hood forward or backwards. Long nose forward, had to have windows open, and just sucking in exhaust smoke and heat.
When we first started getting GE C40-8s at CSX they specifically ordered NO AIR CONDITIONING because of the additional maintenance costs. Even though GE told them that AC was designed to cool the onboard electronics. (human health and comfort is the very least concern) CSX relented and began equipping locomotives with AC only after it became clear that GE was right about the onboard electronics.
And another story from Mark on the run. As a welder I can see the short comings when the temp rises those rails would go wild. Thanks for the show and your time. Paul
I failed to mention that rail is stressed or destressed when installed at what is called neutral temperature that allows a certain amount of movement either way before kinking or breaking.
Nice video Mark, I remember that well when the air temp got to a certain point we had to go out and do a hot weather inspection in the afternoons in our part of the country. We enjoyed watching and have a great rest of your day.
"Any time is train time" is probably one of the smartest pieces of advice ever conceived. That and "stay in school"..........
That is pretty cool! I wasn't aware of heat restrictions, but what you said about longitudinal movement and the impact on supporting structures makes perfect sense. Thank you :)
YOU HAVE A GREAT CHANNEL
Thank you! I'm really glad you enjoy it!
Very interesting Mark I never knew anything about heat restrictions. We can get up to 120, but that's usually the heat index. With the humidity & everything.
The only city up in the north valley that reached 120 or higher was 121 deg on 8-7-1981 in Red Bluff, CA. But from living up here for 30 years, once it hits 110, above that it doesn't matter.🥵🥵 I learn something from every one of your videos. Thanks!
I was in Redding on the Harley in August 2007 and it was 108! The cooler summer weather of NorCal is greatly exaggerated!
Western Canada can be incredibly hot in the summer. Lytton set a new record this summer of 122! Thanks for the video.
I was unaware of that. I really didn't think it got that hot that far north! Thanks for the heads up!
Mark, Are concrete tie based tracks less likely to experience warping or kinking issues? As the rails are held firmly in place?
They help just because they are so heavy and provide a stronger anchor in the track structure. It's important to remember that a sun kink isn't a rail issue, it's a weak track structure issue.
It was great to meet you at the Keene Cafe a bit ago. Loved the video on the SLO Railroad Museum, and really enjoy the duration on this video. Living on the UP Coast Line, we love seeing all of the trains in your videos . Most of our freight trains have been removed. Thanks again for being so warm when we came across each other. Take care!
Thank you! It was great meeting the two of you. I love just randomly running into subscribers. I'm glad you enjoyed the SLO museum piece. I wish there were still through freights running the coast. Maybe I'll catch some of the locals one day!
Thank you, Mark. It’s always a treat to see you out there sharing all of this great train operating information and history.
I have a question about the engines beyond what you presented regarding speed restrictions.
One person commented on Norfolk Southern’s putting A/C in the cabs for the good of the computers.
I was just wondering about the impact the heat has on the prime movers, alternators, inverters, electric motors, and other associated equipment?
I know you’re not a locomotive guy, but I ‘m just curious if the engines have more frequent breakdowns and electrical problems. Again, Thank you!
SP was installing AC on the older power in the mid 80s and it was standard on all new power after that. I find it unusual that a road would not order AC in new cabs over the last 35 years as it adds very little cost to overall price of a locomotive. Probably less a percentage of cost than a new car. But, I have heard some whacky things about the NS.
Thanks for checking it out!
When I hired 25 years ago, NS MAYBE had 200 locomotives in it's entire fleet that had A/C and those were the new dash 9's and they never maintained them. Never cleaned the filters etc. All the foreign locomotives had A/C. We actually were issued shit bags that were numbered and assigned to you. You'd do your thing in a bag and then put it in a bucket. Imagine doing that in the middle of July on a locomotive with no A/C with the windows wide open blowing sand in the whole time!!! The last 10 years or so have improved.
@@huntersquires7107 And that is why you need unions!
Your really cautious around those tracks. It’s easy to see you are retired from the railroad.
Hey Mark great job with the information you share of the railroads. I have a question for you. How much is a new modern Railroad engine? plus about how many maximum railroad cars? Thanks again. Robert over and out.
Locomotives vary in price depending on the type, but the road engines are about $2 million each. I would imagine railcars vary even more depending on type, but I've really never been involved in a discussion about the costs. Thanks for checking it out!
Do the temperatures at which these are issued vary by location? We've been getting level 2 restrictions around my area recently with temps between 95 and 100 and heat indexes in excess of 110
I think so. The Special System Instructions do not specify system wide temperature parameters, but it does have exceptions for subdivision restrictions, which probably vary, as you suggested.
3:44 Consist error code.
Always place empty centerbeams on the rear of the train. In this case it was just one but more than one is looking for trouble. 😁
I regularly see those empties throughout trains. I guess as long as they're surrounded by other empties, it's not a big deal.
PSR moment
its sunny day great scenery running train enjoy watching its amazing perfect weather sir vlogging
Hi Mark, I was at Fresno Amtrak (BNSF track) and noticed little silver boxes with the word "shunt" painted on , placed beside the track at switch points. Was wondering if you know what this equipment is?
Those are the termination shunts for crossing approaches. A train approaching the crossing activates the controller at the crossing when they pass these. A train moving away puts the controller back in passive mode. The higher the track speed, the further out the shunts are. Here is a video about how crossings work in which I touch on the shunts.
th-cam.com/video/YkzYMi-PY5U/w-d-xo.html
The spot where the bridge and the roadbed meet is called a "dump", It is where the bridge dumps the track off into the ballast section. Just thought you would like to know????
Your sound is 5 x 5 ! Anytime no wind noise is bonus, Great videos and content. Liked and subscribed ! best regards, sam,
I have seen central Canada at 105 deg f while I was visiting back in the late 1970s
That road crossing is at Famoso….the old SP water tank is in the back ground…and the drag strip is off to the left….
The strip is actually about six miles to the right (east) in this view (looking north). It is still used regularly.
Great video! Very interesting information you share!
The territory I work gets L1 restrictions in the 80s and L2s in the 90s.
i live in FL and i can shoot the temp in the back seat of my black car and it’s over 180°! crazy! been panting them all white mustangs the last one
It would be interesting to know what you guys stress your rail too? In the UK , its stressed to be stress free at 27 degrees C. This is the ballance we use so that it can withstand the heat in summer and not break apart in winter. Like you mentioned though, 110 F for us would be an issue.
It likely varies by region, I think something between 90F and 110F is common
I got question for you? About Fred ?
If it's not blinking that been on my mind for long time but never asked anyone. Great video mark 😁
As I understand it, FRED is supposed to blink at all times. If it isn't, there is something wrong with the unit. Can we get some input from out train service friends here?
Great information Mark.
the coefficient of expansion on the 1/4 mile welded rail has to be massive!
they are around ~1270 feet long acting as a single length piece, with say a 30
degree variation it must move feet. thank you for the great topic of weather effects
upon the rails. what was the condition called sun king? or something like that.
have a great weekend and be safe out there! barry
Sun Kink. When the structure moves laterally at a weak spot. If you look at the first photo of the derailment, you'll see what it looks like.
Coefficient thermal expansion for 'mild steel' approx 1" for every 100 degrees F per 100 ft. Ex: 1000 ft long bridge , expected thermal highs and lows 150degree F (-30dgF to 105dgF) winter to summer. Approx 15" of expansion/ contraction per the span of 1000ft. 🇺🇸🤔🇺🇸
In the early 90s we started using the term "track buckle" to describe an expansion- caused misalignment. The rail clips on concrete ties and rail anchors on wood ties attempt to restrain the longitudinal expansion/contraction of the rail, thus the force infused from the thermal change results in the force that can lead to track misalignment.
There was a video some time ago of a test to induce a track kink or buckle. The track was straight until the force of heat induced expansion that exceeded the limit of all the restraint (rail anchors, ballast, etc) and the track "buckled" into an S shape. Scary stuff!
One other factor is wave propagation As the railcar rolls along the car weight depressed the track structure as the truck wheels move. The flexing of the track structure induces a sine wave that proceeds each truck.
Mark, how does the form B work at night if there is no work crew on the site? Or do they work around the clock until the job is done? Do they lay down the signs they put up to alert the train crews to the form B?
A Form B is not left in effect unless someone is there to cover it whether night or day (it is common to issue a Form B for night work). These gangs know how long it will take them to complete a specific job and allow for that. If, however, things were to go sideways, the Form B would be cancelled at the appointed time and another form of on track protection would be issued until it was safe to run trains.
Thanks for checking it out!
He Mark, the sound of that mic was not good, until 11:12 There the sound was perfect. So I do not know what you have changed there, but keep it that way. And yes these high temperatures pose a lot of problems, not only in the USA, but worldwide. We had an extreme dry summer and high temperatures, but this year not above 100 degr F. We had temps up to 103 F several years ago, but only 1 day. But climate is changing, and we all will face the consequences. Here in the Netherlands there are some special rail dividers to allow for rail extension by high temperatures. But you would need a lot of those dividers.
I am so used to shouting to be heard, I was doing it with the mic (I actually lowered the audio level by 40% in the editing) as well. I went over some of the video while the second train was going by and realized what I was doing, so I simply spoke normally in the last segment.
We have much more trouble with broken rails in cold weather than with sun kinks in the heat. We set no high temp records in the valley, no consecutive days over 100, or total days over 100 (we're not even close) this year, but we did have the warmest July on record by one degree.
Excellent information 👍
thanks Mark- very informative
Hi Mark another great video hope you and your family are doing great question for you the location that you were filming what was all that stuff that was directly behind you for? I passed that when I go to the drag races at Famoso and I always wonder what it is for thank you sir
That was a experimental solar plant. Something to do with curved mirrors and chemicals. It was shut down a few years ago.
Never heard of “heat restrictions” in my neck of the woods. Just off the Pittsburgh Main Line in between Pittsburgh and Altoona
It doesn't get hot enough back there. Rail is only affected by the actual temperature and is unaffected by humidity. Still, I don't envy you your heat indexes! I'll take 110 @10% any day over 90 @90%!
@@MarkClayMcGowan I worked for CSX out of Baltimore in the '00s, and before that for Amtrak, mostly in the Northeast Corridor. Both have/had heat restriction procedures for days over 90 F. The hours were less (1300 to 1900), and not as specific for territory as UP's. I can't find my last rule book, and it's late, but it reduces speed for trains between 10 and 20 mph depending on their maximum allowable speed, but not below 30 mph in any case. Amtrak in the NEC was reducing max speed for passenger trains to 80 mph from 120 (which just killed on-time performance for the old Metroliner service in the '80s and '90s). While it never gets to 110 F in the Mid-Atlantic, it does reach 100 at least several days/year, and some years maybe 30 days or more. I'm glad to be back in NE Ohio, where it NEVER gets to 100 degrees (thank you Lake Erie!), but give us time with global climate change and that will probably no longer be true in a few years.
Great Video----- Subbed and Rang the bell- And today 9/5/22 it was 116 here today out by Manteca
Thanks! I appreciate the subscription! Yeah, the whole valley is suffering right now, but it looks like it's going to start winding down this weekend...finally!
Never ran heat restrictions for 110 degree and above rail temp on NS after we had all of our heat adjustments complete. Until those heat adjustments were finished we would slow order areas where excessive rail was added during winter months
It's not about the rail temperature. It's about the air temperature, NOT including heat indexes. All rail on all class 1 roads is laid at a neutral temperature regardless of the time of year it is laid, but that doesn't account for weak spots in track structure, and that is what heat restrictions are there for.
Thanks for checking it out!
Neat to see the train booking like that. Just stumbled on the videos also...That can be referred to as a "double bonus". See others by a guy who films down in Cajon Pass. Nice to see this one as I'm one of those "weather dudes". Hehe! Follow stuff like that regularly. 😁
Welcome to the channel! I hope you take the time to check out some of my older stuff. Lots of "how thing work" videos! Thanks for checking it out!
Hello mark . How’s it going hopefully we’ll . That was a very important topic so lnteresting . Keep up the good work . 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🇨🇦🇺🇸Robin out . Be safe .
So What is the best way to run during hot weather unimpeded? 1. lighter trains? 2. stronger continuous track structures? 3.hotter Forged rail? (I remember a video saying in the SE they forged their rail hotter to prevent buckling, but other places didn't because of the typical expected weather need (if that's true i don't know, I think I heard of that when I was a teenager))
Bigger balls, and no union!
It doesn't matter. As long as there is no heat restriction, trains run unimpeded. You can't run freight trains in the "no restrictions" category "just in case". A short Local exceeds that standard. I don't know about rail tempered differently, but that doesn't mean they don't do it. Since rail only reacts to true air temperature and not heat index temperature, I don't know why SE roads would need to take that precaution, but again, that's just a guess on my part. Thanks for checking it out!
Expansion and contraction of tail obeys the physic of the change of temperature of the of the rail and the coefficient of expansion per inch of the particular metallurgy. Rail is shaped by forging a hot "bar" of steel thought a die, somewhat like running a pencil in a pencil sharpener to reshape the graphite pencil lead. The hot bar of steel is rolled through the forging form and takes the shape desired for the rail head, web and base while at several at several hundred degrees. After the rail cools to through the entire process, it takes on whatever ambient temperature it is stored in and continues to expand and contract when unrestrained. Once rail becomes part of the track structure in a railroad, railroaders fuss with
mile-plus lengths trying to restrain the rails to minimize this expansion and contraction, a natural desire and habit of metal, with remarkable success. One might say it is a "fool's errand," but welded strings of rail tend to make trains run faster and quieter. One day we will overcome flat spots on wheels and the squeel of flanges in a curve!
I worked for the C&NW for 3 months in 1969 in the car department cooping boxcars to hold grain. Every 15 minutes they’d make us get out of the cars for five minutes.
So, when it's too hot to run trains, they run them slower so they derail not as bad?
They run them slower so they are more easily able to see and react to structure issues. The last one I worked at Earlimart happened at 103 degrees, so there was no restriction.
Cool video😁
Hello Mark hope you are keeping well and busy
I'm doing well, but the heat and gas prices are keeping me from getting out to shoot much. Should start cooling of in a few weeks! Thanks!
i suggest you buy a digital infrared thermometer. i bet most would be surprised how much higher is rail temp compared to ambient temp.
The rail temperature is only relevant when it is laid or repaired. That used to be measured with a direct contact thermometer, but may be with something like what you mentioned these days. Heat restrictions are about protecting against weak track structure. If the structure is solid, the normal expansion of rail will not affect it, and seldom does.
Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan , rail temp is MOST relevant when being laid or repaired.
it is also something we checked during e v e r y heatrun.
but i was speaking of entertaining your audience.
@@googoo-gjoob look back at what I actually said. That rail temperature is only relevant WHEN rail is being laid or repaired.
Over in the desert at Boron, it will get to 105 every day.
Was this an issue before the days of continuous welded rail?
Yes, jointed rail can kink when the expansion of the rail exceeds the cumulative gap's distance. Mainly a desert issue.
In Canada a branch line subdivision that has bolted rail and track speed is of 35mph or less is restricted to 15 mph when temp reaches 77F. When temperature is 86F it is restricted to 10 pm to 10 am and 10 mph. Most tie or rail or ballast programs are done 7pm to 9 am if in summer time
Heck! That's sweater weather down here! Seriously though, with the temperatures being much cooler up there, ambient and neutral temps are surely much lower, which makes perfect sense.
You brought up "Energy Management System." How does that work? As an airline pilot, I was the energy management system.
GE (General Electric) locomotives have Trip Optimizer. EMD (General Motors) locomotives have what you call LEADER. It's a cruise control system designed to conserve fuel (reduce emissions) and is SUPPOSED to control in-train draft and buff forces better but most of the time that's not the case. The computer operates the train after the engineer enters/processes all the information (tonnage, length, axles, operative brakes, loads, empty's, locomotives used for power or isolated) in the computer. It is a clear signal operation. The engineer at times will take over and operate manually under certain conditions. You have to pay attention to it all the time because it will speed and make interesting decisions in regards to "proper train handling." IMO...the railroads could give 2 S%#ts about any of that. It's just a way to eventually not have anyone on a train so they could obviously eliminate jobs.
@@huntersquires7107 Thanks. That sounds like the Flight Management System on a jet. My stepbrother is an engineer at N.S. I don't get to talk to him much anymore, however, I am amazed at how similar the 2 industries are. The job, the rules, training, etc.
I'm also an engineer for NS in Virginia If you are in North Carolina, my away from home terminal is in your state.
Trip Optimizer actually creates work and employment. When it is chugging up a hill at 30mph in throttle 5 and another train is waiting for it for 20 mins. Do that a few times and you are houred out and replaced with another crew. TO creates work and may save OR burn more fuel.
@@revenniaga6249 lol...yeah that's one way to look at it
Mark can you delve into why rail cars in Europe only had two axles (4 wheels) vs North American rail cars always had 4 axles ( 8 wheels/ car)?
Not in the least accurate. UK opperates prodominently 8 axle freight cars/ wagons nowadays.
@@formidable38 I said had, not have. And England isn’t “Europe”, it’s a separate island.
It's amazing what heat will do to rails. The forces behind all that heated metal is truly amazing. Once it kinks, hold on !! It looks like new rail behind you. Is that 136 lb ?? (Still got your F-150?)
This rail was laid around 2017, but with very few curves an no grades, rail in the valley lasts a very long time. Yes, it is 136 (although some 141 was laid in that project), and yes, I still have the F-150.
My name is Robert I have lived in Bakersfield my whole life. I would totally love to meet up at the kern county museum to talk about the historical locations and operations the steam locamotive SP TW-8 4-8-0 Mastadon 2914 did in area. Ever since i was a child I have been fascinated by this engine and i would love to learn more about its operational history. I also in the past done videography with companies and would totally volunteer to help film
the episode and take video of my own that i can send to you if you would like.
Hit me up in an email when it cools off. We'll see what we can work out.
Very hot that you should share about sun kinks and heat restrictions. Some of my fellow railfans never knew about this and when I tried to share it with them they looked at me as though I was retarded. Anyway, thanks for sharing that and I like the mic..
Interesting However the rules talked about weight of engine and or cars being below or abouve 90 Tons. I had been told I guess incorrect info in late 90s 105 thousand Lbs per car was general limit. 90 tons is 180 thousand Lbs// Does anyone know the max weight of a railroad car??? I kind of figured the 105 was wrong as it did not add up to even close to engine weight even if extra axles and wheels on engines were accounted for. In 70s lager engines I recal were about 800 thousand or 400 tons. Less than a fully loaded and fueld 747. One 747 - 8 took off from Edwards AFB at 1.2 million Lbs.
Different car types have different weights and capacities. The tare and max weights are shown on the cars. It seems the average tare of cars is 25-30 tons. I believe the weight of a modern road engine is around 200-250 tons.
Thanks for checking it out
Been hotter than a spoon in a trap house here in Texas as well.....
That's why the detectors announce the ambience temperature. I live in the southern desert of Arizona along the Union Pacific Sunset Route. I know about heat.
My heat restriction is 90°. Any hotter and I can't deal with it, my body hates it and punishes me for it.
In Europe they started to color the rails in white with a eco-friendly paint some years ago .
It takes off about 6-8*C …
Watch ;
th-cam.com/video/GBMWHAkk6xM/w-d-xo.html
American railroads (other than Amtrak, which operates very little of its own road) are not funded by the government and are not going to spend the money, time and resources it would take to paint rails white. Also, I would argue that white is an eco-friendly color as the railroads here pass through very diverse environments. Also, unless the ties and ballast were also white (or whatever color was chosen), what difference would it make?
Thanks for the info and for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan
Trains roll on rails made of flexible steel , steel is expanding in heat , heat transforms straight rails into a roller coaster.
Bring down the temperature of the rails prevent deformation. The ties and ballast have nothing to do with it.
This is done once a year, like a normal maintenance procedure…
@@aoilpe I'm sorry, but if you don't think track structure has anything to do with the movement of rails, you don't understand the engineering of railroads. Track structure is the ONLY thing that keeps rails in place. If what you say is accurate, ballast would be unnecessary. Also, you're comparing European railroads to American railroads. They aren't built to handle the same kinds of traffic, but I can't imagine European engineers and track departments don't take structure into consideration when designing, building and maintaining their railroads.
@@MarkClayMcGowan
Haven’t you heard of “Fixed -railway” where concrete replaces ballast?
Do you not understand that ballast don’t expand in heat as steel does?
Do you understand the purpose of ballast for railways?
Yes, I have heard of concrete roadbeds. Mainline railroads here do not use them. I didn't say ballast expanded, I said it has weak spots than can move laterally (that means "side to side") in certain circumstances, as when RAIL expands in extreme heat and has nowhere else to go. Painting 136# rail white would make little difference in 115 degree heat (like we had here in Bakersfield yesterday). Rail is laid at neutral temperature to account for expansion and contraction, and all things being equal, it will be fine, but changing ballast conditions cannot be accounted for. I spent 40 years with the railroad in the signal department working side by side with track forces, and I worked a few derailments caused by sun kinks. I have forgotten more about American railroading than you will ever know. Also, you are still comparing European freight railroads to American roads. They have virtually nothing in common. That's why Europeans come here to railfan and not the other way around.
I must say that's the first active locomotive tagged in graffiti that I've saw...
It's not that uncommon. Especially with the short lines.
High heat equals kinked rails!😏👍
110 it can get 115 it's a desert.. Turn up the air conditioner.. Tracks buckle at lower temperatures not just 3 digit
I can get hotter than that in the desert. When I had the Daggett to Vegas territory I worked a few times in 120+ temperatures. Track structures can fail at just about any temperature given the right circumstances, but this video was about heat restrictions. Thanks for checking it out!
Never heard about Heat Restrictions on the Railroad but we’ve seen what the Extreme Heat does to Pavement and an Excessive Number of Water Main Breaks.
I was in Omaha many years ago and saw what extreme temperature swings can do to roads!
This a dry heat, not like in the east with humidity
What up Mark
The temperature!
what do they call that hat? I gota get me one wheree you been? its been a long time
I just call them "floppy hats". My wife gets them off Amazon, I think. I've been staying out of the heat!
What you gotta unjderstand his UPRR don't give a dam about 110 degrees for level one. It doesn't get 110 degrees isn many places on the UP in Summer. Usuall the dispatcher puts out a heat level restriction in early June and it comes off the middle of October, nobody checks the temperature. I liked it in the winter when the rail would shrink and break. I got a lot of toe-in / overtime. There is absolutely no incentive for getting a train over the road you lose money.
Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. In the 40 years I worked there, I never heard of a heat restriction being issued for the whole summer and half the fall. It actually reaches 110 in many places on the UP , and 120 in some. Also, these are FRA standards and apply to ALL class 1 railroads, not just UP. All track inspectors (and signal employees, like I was) are issued Kestral temp/humidity/wind speed indicators to stay on top of those things for many reasons, one of which is temperature. Once a heat restriction is in place, no one NEEDS to check the temperature. It remains in place until removed, no matter what the temperature is. Trains lose money by delivering freight? Yeah, it's all a conspiracy...to what end? I don't usually reply to comments in a negative manner, but yours is particularly uninformed and annoying.
Sounds super complicated
Definitely not uncommon.