.243 Bullets on 6mm Rem. and Berger Bullets Performance Questioned
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
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I love that you didn't make him feel bad for not knowing basic information like that. You have a great disposition Mr. Ron. Please keep the great content coming!
Yes Spooner seems to be just a really good person the kind of guy you want is your neighbor or your buddy that you meet up at the range with. And I bet he's got some stories
Fragmenting bullets may be great for coyotes and smaller. But for anything bigger, I want a bullet that will hold together...
Biggest thing I shoot os whitetail and nosler ballistic tips work great for 243 up to my 7mm. Idk about moose or elk though.
Yup, Ill never shoot a target bullet at a medium or larger game. Mr Murphy always strikes at the worst time, and to injure any animal, let alone a trophy, because the bullet doesnt consistently open as expected would be awful
Absolutely correct John. Deer, Antelope, Elk etc all get bonded shot at with bonded bullets from my guns. I really like accubonds and from my experience thus far accubonds are perfectly adequate for all north american game. Not talking about bears.
108 match 6 arc holds together
@@earlhuff7847 I'm part of the exit wounds fan club...must say that the accubond has been disappointing on large pigs.
I drive a lot for a living and I love listening to your vids!! Some I have to pause until I stop to watch but your talking is generally enough to get the info in. Cheers
I appreciate that
To the person writing in I’ve had excellent performance with the 90 grain ballistic tips on Whitetails. Last year I shot one at an extreme angle quartering away at 18 yards. It was pushed with at HOT load so if it was going to fail it had it chance. I skipped along 5 ribs and broke through all of them. The bullet broke through the shoulder plate on the opposite side and came to rest under the hide. The Dee hit the ground so fast I thought I missed it. It never even flinched. I’m sure the 95 grain version might have exited but I could not have asked for better performance. I’ve tried 90 grain Swift Scirroccos. Most deer run 60 yards on average before tipping over. The 100 grain Hornady interlocks will drop them on the spot as well. Imo a hyper fast bullet that quickly expands and dumps energy is the key to drop deer quickly in the little .243 chambered rifles.
Yes, please keep making videos to answer these questions.
You got it!
Although I’m a top 1% sales performer in my field in all the USA…
I’m convinced that Ron would be the very top sales guy in all the world in ANY field he chose to endeavor !
He has ALL the ingredients for success !
HI Ron,thanks for putting hunters straight on this issue. Not many gunwriters have the b...s to say it how it is. I have seen cup and core bullets fail on game from small deer to mature elk and moose. In some of these cases the animal was finished off with a partition from my rifle. Heavy bone and Bergers don't mix period. I place these "hunters" right up there with the ultra long range(600 yds plus) fanatics. Any animal should be dispatched as cleanly as possible, using a proper hunting bullet makes that far more likely.
In my hunter and angler club, the Berger bullet was fashionable for a single hunting season!
Everyone went back to Nosler and Barnes bullet after real life experience.
my 788 remington in 6mm remington is a sweet rifle. i use hornady bullets. 75gr hp and the 100gr interlock. it works every time!
For me I like the Hornady interlock bullets , good mushroom and the bullet stays together and punches thur (normally ) leaving a good blood trail . Now this is just my opinion .
I used to like them but then I saw 2 of them fail in one season! Both in .338 caliber both on elk at less than 50 yards.. On both animals we found just the empty jacket in the chest cavity an no core anywhere.. after seeing it twice I’m now not sure if I’m a fan of them anymore.
Get to know your bullets!! 100% agree. For right at 52 years of hunting experience and owning different 243's throughout those years I learned through trial and error about bullets. From up close woods to long range, bullet choice is indeed critical. Throughout the trial and error I can now know that when that trigger is squeezed there is a dead deer for the freezer. I absolutely love the 243. Shot placement and bullet choice leaves me confident that the 243 is a excellent caliber out to 400 yards. Ron, I thank you for sharing your knowledge. Even us old geezers can still learn. Be blessed!!
I am struggling with this for my son. He is new to hunting and I want to give him the best possible options. I have a 243 and he shoots it well. But I have had multiple people I hunt with never get an exit wound. Although all deer have been recovered I would love to see better penetration. Shot range from 25-150 yards. I just purchased some partitions for him to try. Do you have any suggestions on the best bullets for whitetail in these closet ranges? Thanks.
@danielback3236
Partitions is a excellent choice. Hornady American Whitetail is another good one. Usually always achieve complete pass through even when encountering bone. Downside is sometimes no blood trails but deer usually roll up their landing gear within 30 yards or less. Massive internal damage. I live and breath by the 243. Put the bullet in the boiler room and there will be meat for the table.
@@danielback3236
You may also consider nosler accubonds, serra gamechangers, Federal Fusion. Ive had good results with all. Honesty though. Your goona get get excellent results out of the Partitions. Best of luck to you and your son. Be prepared though. After his 1st deer there will be no holding him back. Hes gonna be hooked to the great sport of hunting and the lasting memories. Be blessed 🙌!
I simply always have my ears wide open when someone with (much) more experience than me speaks. Thank you so much for everything you share, I really appreciate it!
Greets, Tonny.
You're so welcome!
Ron, I’m glad to hear you talk about caution with ingesting lead. I have switched to non lead and there is a lot of science pointing to the negative health effects of consuming lead contaminated meat. I think it needs to be talked about in a rational way, as it’s not anti hunting at all. There are many non lead hunting advocacy groups.
I'm equally concerned with lead poisoning of various scavenging birds eating gut piles and lost game struck with lead bullets. It might not be significant enough to jeopardize any but species with small numbers (Condors,) but do we really want to present ourselves as too crass to care about collateral damage? Not good for the hunters' image.
Thats "California thinking" yall shouldnt believe the hype. Less rules the better i say
Andy Riehle . The reason Cal. , came up with the lead free ammo law had nothing to do with people investing lead ! They claimed that. Vultures, especially the California Condor would be ingesting the gut pile , & they are an endangered species, & at first that law applied only to areas that had condors , then later applied it to the whole state ! Just a back door way of causing grief to hunters & ammo companies!
I was there at the time
Wouldn't it be better to hunt with long high-BC TMJ bullets? You can have your high BC and eat it too.
A long bullet tumbles and flattens and exposes more surface at 90 degrees than an expanding bullet when expanded.
Ha! Ha! I know a lot of guys in their 80's and some in their 90's that ate deer killed with SOLID lead bullets for years.
Well, Ron, I enjoy talking to you. You’ve got a voice for radio and that means it’s good but you’re is a seem like the kind of person that I enjoyed talking with anywhere about anything love your attitude and great to see you are putting this where we can see it and view it and I appreciate you.
For big game, I like partition bullets - great expansion and penetration.
Great bullets that's absolutely true, but if all I have is a Nosler Accubond in the chamber, I won't feel too bad either!
I love Nosler Partitions and Accubond bullets too! I think that the way they perform in game is almost perfect. They are very accurate, begin expanding on contact and retain enough weight to exit the game animal for a good blood trail if the animal doesn't simply drop to the ground dead. That's what I'm looking for in a bullet and that's what I get with Nosler Partitions and Accubond bullets.
I'm old school. Tried many different bullets but I always come back to the old reliable Nosler Partition. Taken everything from Antelope to Caribou and Elk with them. .243/.280/.300WinMag/.338WinMag all shoot them very reliably.
There is no doubt when using Partitions. Why take the chance?
Reliability is the problem with the new Target style bullets. Sure they're accurate and have high BC. But are not reliable for what it takes to dispatch big game.
Great presentation Ron. Trying to explain bullets is tough. I’ve tried all kinds and like most have a favorite. An elder gentleman told me once “the cheapest yet most important part of a hunt is the bullet you send down range to an animal. Make it the best you can buy”. You can’t argue that.
Bullets have come a long way during my days, but it’s so hard to beat the performance of a Nosler partition. Sometimes I’m not able to achieve the desired accuracy, but performance wise, I can’t remember one failing. I have failed in bullet placement a few times but when it is placed correctly, they are great. I’m with you on the fragmenting bullets. Ballistic tips are great for accuracy, but they perform like a grenade. Sometimes you have to shoot what your rifle likes. Thanks Ron!
If you don't want your bullet to break up, use Partitions. Some other "hunting" bullets act like target bullets on game as the jacket separates, which creates unpredictable results.
Bravo Ron, your ability to educate even in the face of angry hunters who use this vs that and then give your opinion without sparking furry *see internet forums* is a rare quality!
Thanks.
Thank you for continuing to provide info on 6mm Remington. I recently inherited one from my grandfather, and you’re one of the only people on here talking about it. I hope it makes it more popular in the long run. Keep up the great reviews.
Glad to help
My first big game rifle was a 6mm Remington. I hunted everything in my area. Antelope, mule deer, bear, mountain sheep and elk all fell prey to that rifle. I had only one complaint, shot placement was critical because the capillary damage was extreme with it. If I shot just a little off there was a lot of damaged meat and the meat is what I hunt for. I have to say the 6mm Remington is an extreme rifle and long range coyote shots are amazing.
Remington Corlokt for me, Hornady when I can't get them. I have had problems with Hornady in the last couple years with their .257 diameter bullets UNDER 100 yards. I am not the only one. Remington spent millions on bullet research, other companies spent millions on advertising. I never had a Corlokt bullet fail to open up on bone or through soft tissue.
Always a class act, Ron. Thanks for the informed and wisened take on this subject!
Thank you kindly Rhubarb.
Your videos have taught me so much I'm a member of rso tv thank you I will pass the knowledge on to my son
I’m with you on the not wanting my grandkids ingesting lead.
Your comments on velocity and knowing your bullets is also spot on. Sounds like you’ve had some experience in this area.😉
Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us.
My pleasure, John.
I think the lead hazard is greater with regular lead shot in small game. The parts of big game where the bullet does its business are hemorrhaged and cut away and not eaten.
I love the performance of the coppers from Barnes. Deep penetration with excellent hydrodynamic shock. Most often passes through, leaving an exit hole twice the diameter of the original. Soft points blow up and kill it dead right there. Bonded fall in between.
The message I learned from this is to match your hunting style to the performance of your bullet.
If you have highly fragmenting bullets designed to "explode" then wait for a broadside shot and get that explosion in the vital cavity. If you have deep penetrating bullets (like copper) then you can take those "drill through" quartering shots, but broad side shots will need better shot placement because you dont get an internal explosion of metal.
Its not that one bullet is better than the other.... but your bullet must match the shot you take.
Thanks Ron again for your great summary. I will check out the other video you referenced as well.
Bullets that fragment shouldn’t be aloud as hunting bullets . Broadside is great until someone hits a shoulder and the elk or whatever limp off and far away to die . With a bonded or copper that doesn’t happen
Like you, I had given a lot of thought about lead bullets! Last year I changed to Barnes TTSX bullets. I shot four deer with them, none of them took a nether step!!! I like not think about lead fragments in my meat!!! Really like this video Ron!
Thanks Keith.
For decades I used Nosler partition with great results .
Soft points have always worked well for me on game.
They work but there are such better choices out there now.
I have had great experience with the 120 ttsx in my 7-08. I have them in 243. 257 and 277. I do intend to use them on deer too. I still love the partitions and Sierra's gamekings. My friend and I have discussed this very issue a lot and we choose our loadings accordingly. Thanks for the video
Thanks for the info
This is a great idea. I like it. Thanks to your wife.
Thanks 👍 I'll tell her.
I made the switch to Barnes and haven’t looked back!
So did I about 15 yrs ago. I have never looked back and I have never recovered one from any animal. Just recovered a lot of one shot dead critters. These bullets have Match grade accuracy. Good hunting to you.
Had to load my own Barnes x years ago .Now I buy them already loaded and ready . A box of 20 has lasted me over 10 years and 1 elk 2 Moose and 9 white tail.
@@oldpolak5203 l have found with factory loaded ammo it is as accurate for hunting as hand loads this was not the case 40-50 years ago. Because of the benchrest crowd and hunting hand loaders manufacturer’s got the message and made changes in quality.
@@gascheck8151 My dad used to reload because it was far less expensive. He would make special goose loads with 2 ounces of lead . His favorite was 110 grain Barnes x bullet for his 270 . A box is 85 dollars here in Canada for ready loaded Barnes x , it was 50 last year . Good thing I have enough to last me the rest of my hunting days , I dont target shoot . I haven't shot my brno 270 more then twice a year in the last 25 years . It's been dead on .
I've had good luck with the Barnes TTSX and Hornady GMX line. Decent expansion and accuracy. And they're lead free, which I do suggest switching to. I'm young enough that if I keep hunting I rather not have to worry about lead in my system later in life
between the less lead possible for your consumption and the fact that there’s less lead left in the environment, I think lead free is the way to go
My exact comment! TTST and GMX!!!
For anyone wanting to look further into the lead ammo issue in regards to hunting and generally the outdoors, here's an in-depth article that covers the pro-lead side too:
undark.org/2017/01/30/lead-ammunition-bullets-hunting-copper/
@@netwright4083 - Try the Barnes LRX. Even better accuracy and expansion, in my opinion.
And a higher BC per grain weight ;)
Hey Ronnie Boy
Your letter writer is 100 per cent correct.
Berger bullets are great ,accurate target bullets, however they are useless as hunting bullets.
I have had more than one example of very poor penetration personally and have seen several others. I have steered a lot of shooters away from Berger’s in favour of monolithic bullets such as those made by Barnes.
I appreciate your experience, Doreen. I wouldn't say Berger's (or any other bullet) are useless for hunting. Too many have reported satisfying results from them. Probably more accurate to say they are less than ideal for hunting or useful for certain kinds of hunting, etc.
Plenty of good big game bullets out there, three I like are Nosler partition, Nosler accubond and Barnes.
That second one was well-written. No confusion there. Also, Ron's explanation about why he has started to steer away from lead cores is hard to fault.
easy way to get the rough bullet size it to remember the rule of 4......to find mm to imperial, multiply the size by 4 (example 9mm x 4 = 36 ) to convert imperial to mm, divide by 4 . this is, of course, just a rough measurement.
as for bullet performance, its important to remember that there are bullets made for long distance target shooting (match) and there are those made specifically for hunting. generally, a match bullet isnt ideal for taking game
thank you again for yet another great video
Thanks throttlejockey.
Ron great talk! I totally agree with you on different bullet construction.
I have used the Berger bullet on mule deer at 85 yards. Broad side heart and lungs jelly and a 3 inch diameter hole out the other side. But it went 60 yards. And lots of blood shot.
On a white tail at 262 yards high shoulder bullet barley penetrated.
Took two to finish up. And lots of blood shot meat damage.
Last fall took a mule doe at 250 with the Swift Aframe 160 broad side both lungs and a nickel sized hole out no blood shot the animal went 20 yards.
And a 170 class whitetail at 94 exactly the same spot and results. No blood shot .
The Berger bullets are very accurate 👍
Awesome for paper and steel.
But I will stick with the controlled expansion bullets for hunting.
Having been an outfitter and guide most of my life in Saskatchewan and Alberta I've seen about every bullet's performance on deer , sheep , bear's etc. my personal assessment of bullet's is Berger = pretty good , early ballistic tips wounded more game than other's but certainly accurate , Barnes gets the nod from me I've seen spectacular performance , one hunter shot through a 12" poplar tree and still Passed right through a large whitetail !
Thanks for this insight based on long experience, Bruce.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Certainly feel privileged to have grown up in the 60s and 70s , probably the best times in hunting , modern rifle's , game management and modern bullet's but I'm saddened by the state of things , everything good is ending and our youth will never experience the good old days like we did ......think I'll go read an old Elmer Keith book !
Listen to the wife 😜
I like no BS and intelligent dude Ron
Thanks Joe. And wife thanks you too.
Your wife is a smart lady.
I generally use Hornady SST for thin skinned game. I use Woodleigh PPRN for thicker skinned, heavy bone and muscled animals. I have, however, just gotten into Hammer bullets and am very excited about taking game with them. Good luck and stay safe.
I had some good results with 162-gr. SSTs in a 7mm Rem. Mag. in South Africa with Crusader Safaris several years ago. I feared they'd tear apart at 7mm RM speeds, but at 330 yards they opened into a classic mushroom upon landing on the shoulder of a kudu bull. They did break up pretty dramatically on impala, reedbuck, etc. at closer ranges, but terminated all animals. What was truly remarkable about that hunt was seeing five caracals! One rarely sees those in daylight.
love my 6mm rem. always had great luck with the nosler partitions
Well done Sir!
How did I miss this 2 weeks ago? Apparently I got some catching up. 😁 Ron, I'm with you. I'm a fan of the bonded bullets and it's what I use exclusively. I'm just more comfortable hunting whitetails, elk, Mulies, antelope, bear with bonded bullets/controlled expansion.
Glad you bought up the lead in the burger issue. I've been thinking the next box of 7mm projectiles I buy might be all copper construction despite the expense. I've probably consumed enough lead
You also may have consumed none.
I have some experience with 105gr Berger VLD hunting bullets in .243 on whitetails. Seems to be that they function perfectly as advertised, and dumped energy very quickly. For example, on the first deer I shot with one, the left side lung was completely destroyed and the right side was untouched. The biggest downside I found was when a deer didn't drop, and there was no exit wound so no blood trail. Fortunately it worked out, but that was enough that I switched back away from them, because I could see that being problematic. Just for what it's worth.
I love my Bergers, have now used them for at least 15 years. Whether it's 243, 270, 6.5prc, 30-06, 7mm mag, 300 wby or 338 win, I have never lost an animal, Deer (white tail, mule deer & black tail), black bear, elk, 1 moose, coyote, etc., in fact 90% of them are dead within 10 yards. Both short and long range, bullet blows up like a like hand grenade inside the animal.
Great video Ron!
Another awesome video Mr. Ron.
Thanks for watching
My buddy killed a 180 class muley in Colo last fall - 212gr eldx at 45yds out of a 300prc. Hit shoulder, blew up and turned front quarter into mush. Buck ran in a tight circle for like 20sec until he could reposition and put it down. My thought was - I will stick to my partitions!
"Controlled Expanding bullets" is a very very old terminology used way back long long ago describing many types of what you may call cup and core bullets. Many types of "cup and core" bullets have design features that help "control" expansion such as tapered jackets, the mechanical feature of the Interlock, the old Speer Grand Slam that had two kinds of lead, internal flutes, the old Remington Core-Lokt, and the Winchester Silvertip, etc. all these features are designed to help control expansion, versus just a lead core bullet with a thin uniform jacket. They were referred to as controlled expanding long ago. Remington has used the term "Controlled Expanding" in the advertisements for the Core-Lokt bullets going back generations before bonded bullets were invented. Others used the same terminology as well going back long long before bonded bullets were ever manufactured. Jack O'Conner used the term frequently back in the day, long before bonded bullets ever existed referring to several types of non-bonded bullets with features designed to aid in controlling expansion. Funny how so much shooting sports history is being forgotten and lost these days.
I likebyour background wall. Nicely done. 😊
Couldn’t agree with you more!
Berger v Hunting rounds. Try the "The Real Gunsmith." He has plenty to say ( and well substatiated) regarding an abusive use of Bergers on Elk.
You can’t trust a word the real gunsmith says, he’s the biggest hypocrite in the game.
Yea he's a fool and so are the people who listen to him. Contradicts himself in literally every video
Watched a few of his videos, not worth the time. Has some downright incorrect logic and information in most of his videos
@@stevenroberts9212 I don't know...considering that extensive example of bullet collection (recovered harvest rounds, expanded, cross section and data records of dates and distance), the evidence convinces me rather then opinionated assertions not cited.
Excellent answer. I think if there were only two bullets made. The Nosler partition and the Barnes X bullet the world would be a much simpler place. I guess I should say three, including the V-Max for varmints.
Berger VLD has been phenomenal for me. Deer at 470 yards, 300 wsm 210gr VLD hunter, complete pass thru and baseball exit wound. Maybe the light calibers dont work as well? Always used partitions in 6mm for deer under 100 yards, never a problem either.
Hornady ELD-X is another cup and core bullet like the Bergers. I've had bad experiences with both of them on big critters with coming apart too early at high velocity.
I always liked the accuracy of the Nosler ballistic tips in my 6.5 mm rifles, but have seen their cup & core design separate upon penetration. On the flip side, never had a buck go more than25 yards when shot in the ole boiler room........
I use a .243 for most of my hunting , I would highly recommend using a bonded bullet especially for deer size game.....
Always do more it is great what your doing great info and history thank you!
Thanks, will do!
The winchester power points do a great job of knock down and penetration in my 243s in the 100 gr. Offering on 200 pound axis and whitetail out to 250 yards. Anything farther gets the attention of one of my 30s.
I won’t use Berger’s because they destroy too much meat. Too bad, they do shoot good!
I know it’s unpopular, but I don’t shoot my animals with lead anymore either. TSXs or GMXs are great, but there are others. I know I need velocity for expansion so I keep my ranges reasonable; my furthest shot has been 325 yards. They are pretty much the complete opposite of Bergers in terms of terminal performance, but they get there good too.
I don't understand why anyone still uses lead bullets for hunting. The copper bullets are just as accurate and you never have to worry about bullet failure. I've seen ground game meat x-rays that were peppered with lead, from fragmentation obviously. People wouldn't drink water they knew had lead in it, but somehow they don't seem to mind feeding it to their families.,
Informative video as usual- keep up the good work Ron- always find your content interesting
I appreciate that!
Another fine video Ron, Being in Australia, big game doesn't go beyond feral bull cattle, camel and water buffalo. Some might arise for the need of crocodile for defense but that is a rare circumstance on this continant now they are protected, so we will ignore that one for now. The animals I hunt from rabbits to 220lb feral boar all is achieved with my .223 Ackely improved and head shots. My one and only feral bull was with a .458WM in a dense thicket at about 20m, that was a borrowed rifle for the job and the owners full confidense he didnt send me to my death with his beloved rifle lol. Adrenaline was high for that one. But I have digressed, my 223 runs 55gr Sierra BTSP bullets at about 3500fps, maybe a little faster from my 26in barrel. Given the game i hunt goes to the meat market, head shots are mandatory, and I am confident in my shots to 350 yards at night under spotlight. Confidence in your ammunition is paramount and if anyone has any hesitation on a ill found result I would advise them to shop until they are happy, But the golden rule of this is still shot placement. and I still enjoy that this is never left out of any of your videos.
Thanks Cameron. For manufacturers the challenge with shot placement is you can't sell it. But you can make and sell balanced, consistent bullets and barrels and rifles and all the other paraphernalia we use to help us become accurate. And I must say our manufacturers have been doing a bang up job of doing that. We have the best gear ever. Now it's up to us to understand and apply it properly. Sounds as if you're doing that! My only Aussie feral bull appeared to be a high humped Brahma that I settled with a 140-grain Fail Safe from a 270 WSM. Couple of shoulder shots calmed him rather quickly. I put one in the hump to see if that might impact spine, but just fatty muscle up there. I should have assumed as much. Keep on shootin' straight, Cameron.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors a wound up rouge brahmin can be a lot of animal to stop. The hump is amazing eating but no bone to be found for sure. Mine dropped his head for a strutting charge and perhaps intention (perhaps a small amount of panic) lol, @ shots from the under over rifle into the spin and front shoulder he didnt know what had hit him. That bull had already trampled one bush walker and been known to chase hoarse and motorcycle riders, the bushwalker was the last straw for him unfortunatly he was a beautiful animal. I was the youngest and most foolish of the group on hand at the rifle range that day where the recruiting happened, with the largest rifle that was on hand on the day also. Those beers were might sweet that day I tell you. And a firm nod to your point about manufacturers doing their job in this day and age, Im only in my early 30s so I have had the high life of loading and shooting, compared to my Dad and his poor selection in his early years. 22LR, 12ga birdshot, buckshot, slugs and his 243 were all he had for many many years. Now we can fill entire buildings with rifles and no 2 rifles the same calibre.
I’m giving hammer bullets a try this year. They are some of the easiest bullets to work up a good shooting load with that I’ve used. I’ve shied away from the target style of hunting bullets after a bad experience one year with lack of penetration.
Ron ! You should sell “ hunt honest and shoot straight “ bumper stickers
The bottom line is if if works for you use it
Another fantastic video Ron
Keep up the great work
This one was close to my heart As I know and I'm learning more and more about bullet science
I shoot both a custom 243 for varmint and big game
and also recently got into benchrest shooting a 6m.m.br norma using a lot of Berger bullets and custom bullets made by a local bullet engineer different tasks. Different bullets 😁
Thanks Matt.
I have recovered two ELD-X bullets, they are standard cup and core. The jacket and core were separated on both.
Great video sir!
Thank you kindly!
I’ve never had or shot a 243 but have always wanted one. I have many 308s, 3006, and a 300rum but never a 243. I have 22-250 to 308 but nothing in between.
Iv never had a Berger not kill a deer, almost all dead on the spot. Even the ones that ran died in sight. Iv also never had so much meat damage. A Berger bullet is a devastating projectile but iv stopped using them in favour of the nosler partition.
Exactly, they blow things to smithereens, because the guilding blows to bits at high velocities. To be fair, it’s just not Bergers, all cup and core suffer from this. If you took a shoulder shot at a large animal, and hit bone, it could just wound it. Very little penetration.
A lot of good bullets out there. I’ve settled on Nosler, Barnes and Sierra just cause my wallet screams at me when I’m purchasing more bullets for reloading. 😉
I use the same bullets too. I reload for my brothers and dad. They all work great. I had concerned about Sierra prohunter 220 grain for 06’. It performed well out to about 325 yds broadside quartering away on a moose. Held up mostly even after passing thick lower shoulder blade bone on opposite side. Barnes and misled partition no worries on performance if you can but your target
I use Berger 80 gr in my .243 tikka rifle. Excellent target bullet and they really do a number on prairie dogs. I just wish I could find some right now.
Well done. Good advice. Thank you sir.
Glad it was helpful!
Cant argue with a .243 but the 6.5 Grendel is a great cartridge. I recently purchased a Ruger American predator and it's a great rifle for the price. 123gr bullets really make it shine out past 300 yds with eld match. I target shoot so that was the draw.
The eldx blows to pieces . I’ve seen it on elk and bears . I have been using federal terminal ascents in my 6.5 and nosler accubonds in my 35 Whelen . Both have worked very well for me
My 300 wsm and 35 wheelan gets Barnes 165/225
Berger’s only 6.5x06 the velocities are perfect
Hornady advertises the ELD-X as a controlled expansion bullet.
Ron, you are a pro! Great video
Exactly.
All the gun gear is cool, but I believe the foundational knowledge should be the projectile itself.
Quality bullets. It does the work.
The channel "The Real Gunsmith" also had major issues with Berger bullets but it was with their ""hunting"" line a few decades ago IIRC. They apparently sold target bullets as hunting bullets without altering them in any way.
Edit: Link to the video in question:
th-cam.com/video/pBDm41duCTo/w-d-xo.html
The Real Gunsmith really has a lot of useful knowledge. If he says it you can believe it. He went to gunsmith school in Trinidad Colorado under Mr. Prator.
Was not aware that Bergers were recommended for hunting. Thought they were target only.
Berger has a strong line of Hunting bullets with heavier jackets than the target bullets.
More!
It looks like those Bergers are target. They look like, for example, Sierra target bullets. These are very accurate, but the jacket does separate. This can lead to unpredictable results on game.
Yes more...
Ron, excellent presentation again. They make so many good bullets that i am a little weary of fragment designs for long range. The tougher bullets are not that far behind Berger, no need to be picking pieces out of the meat. keep up the good work, love your channel. Carl
Thanks Carl.
I use BERGER bullets in my 7MM. WSM and they do very good they do what they say that they will.
Another interesting video 👍, for what I do I've found out hornady Sst 75g in my 243 works very well 👌 Another good round is federal 80grain power shock
Thanks 👍
I’ve had awful experience with the ballistic silver tips 1st time I bought ammo online I bought 6 boxes and had maybe 11 good cartridges I was fuming. Bad primers and you could pull the bullet straight out the casing and that was the last time I’ll ever buy the ballistic silver tips
I think people tend to forget the dangerous game in the lower 48 states were all killed with pumpkin throwers using soft lead bullets. None of the firearms had enough velocity for the bullets to explode upon impact which is guess is why they went to ever and ever larger calibers. I used a soft lead round ball to harvest an elk and the .50 caliber ball passed right through the elk and it fell dead. I didn't find pieces of lead in the animal anywhere.
Thanks
I like the partition bullets , but the best I ever shot anything with was 30/06 black talon . Ron who made that bullet , & are there any currently available, thanks for the vid & your response 😁👍
Winchester made the Black Talon, later the similar XP3 bullet with translucent red polymer tip, hollow nose in copper front end, secured lead core in shank. I don't think they've been made for quite some time.
Ron Spomer Outdoors . Thanks Ron ! The projectile , is my concern , I may be wrong , but I thought it was a solid copper bullet with a polymer coating . The question is who made the projectile & is anyone making that same one minus the coating
Ron in 1994 I hunted Mule deer and Antelope in Wyoming. I shot a Mule Deer at 255 yards with a 30/06 using Hornady 165 Gr HSBT bullets. The second bullet entered the chest behind the front shoulder but it turned went through the innards and broke the off hind leg. I really didn't care because I had a nice Mule deer on the ground. It has always intrigued me though. I chalked it up to sometimes strange things happen. It didn't hit any bone except the hind leg. I knew it was the second bullet because there was no bloodshot at the leg.
? I'm confused second bullet?
Sorry I had hit him once and he just kept walking hence the second bullet. The entries were two inches apart. Sorry Ron chalk it up to age. I knew it was the second shot because of no bloodshot when it broke the leg.
Actually when Berger states the bullet fragments is only partially true . berger bullets are a thin walled J4 jacket with a lead core formed into a hallow point weight back bullet .(meaning the majority of the lead core is in the body of the bullet and does not fully fill the jacket ) upon impact that hallow part of the bullet peals open and tends to fragment off tomahawking through the body cavity ,but the main body of the bullet and lead core remain surprisingly in tact. causing very devastating energy transfer . In a recent double lung shot we found a slice completely through the heart. and several through the liver caused by the nose of the bullet fragmenting off .The majority of the bullet was under the skin in front shoulder of opposite side . That is 100 % retained energy.
All good info, Ron. Good Job!
Thanks 👍
Ron I appreciate your work but let me correct you on the ELD-X. Yes it's a cup and core bullet but it also has the "Interlock Ring"., They are designed to give optimal performance beyond 300yds with reliable controlled expansion. At ranges less that that they still perform very well but I have had quite a few separate where I have found both jacket and core remain inside the chest cavity.
Thank you. Good video. I stopped using "ordinary" soft tipped straight jacketed bullets a long time ago because of the rate of bullet failures and lead fragments all through the carcass as a consequence. Unfortunately a lot of hunters and game cullers choose to use match grade bullets in high velocity cartridges which fragment because they completely misunderstand terminal ballistics and kinetic energy and buy into the (completely false) killer hydraulic shockwave theory etc. So now high lead contents are now being measured in endangered vulture and stork populations which have been shown to originate from lead core bullets and as a consequence the Kwazulu Natal Wildlife management department is pushing to outright ban all lead containing bullets for any form of hunting in the province. I haven't seen any of the actual data they are using to back their decisions but I very much doubt they have done any research on identifying which calibers / cartridges are responsible or bullet design. Certainly creates a problem for some of us who hunt with older firearms which do well with hard cast bullets at moderate velocities. Any idea of the cost of replacing a lifetime stock of 2000 hard cast gas checked flat point i80gr bullets for a 30-30 with 150gr Barnes TSX if and when they are available in local un shops. About R36000-00 or $2500-00. Don't even ask about non lead bullets for side lock muzzleloaders.
Thanks fudge. Yes, switching from lead slugs could be expensive for some.
Yeah but how often would they actually be checking if people have lead bullets? You could just try some copper colored spray paint lol.
I load 100g partitions in a 243.
20yrds to 400yrds they work and expand properly.
Penetrate straight. Broadside with no bone contact or a hard shoulder shot. They hit hard.
Only gripe is the price of Nosler stuff
I have used tsx in other calibers with great performance.
I’ve seen ELD-X fragment on black bear in .284
I had a hornady interlock blow up on a bear from a 30-30 @ 40yrds and hitting heavy bone.
Unless you are looking for 300+ yrd shots I would steer clear of Berger for hunting. IMO
I like the Winchester PowerMax it's a bonded bullet with a little hollow point or federal fusion is ok too but the hornady SST is locked same as there interlock, or REM. Core-lokt which are good deer bullets even the Winchester superX is good as a 300 yard or under bullet i had good luck with all of them and some other ones