Hey Terry, there's an easier way to install the "F-brackets" after you've cut out the hole for your box. 1 - (if possible) Run your wires into your box before inserting the box into the hole. 2 - Push the box into the hole. 3 - Turn the F upside down with the horizontal tips facing you. 4 - Now slide the long part of the "F" along one side of the box while trying to slide it up the inside of the drywall. Once it is as high as it can go, the short part of the leg can be pushed into the hole and slid down until it bottoms out on the drywall. 5 - Now bent the two tabs around and into the box. 6 - Now repeat for the other side. I promise it gets easier with practice.
@@theinternetelectrician I have had to use this F style box in kitchen islands when they have wainscoting. But yes, I do prefer the plastic old work boxes whenever possible.
@@cfgdr3 Embarrassed to say, but in all my years in the trade, this was the first time I've seen these brackets. Used the EZ 777 boxes mostly, prefer the plastic ones though, more room! But once the metal EZ boxes are clamped in, they're not pulling out if installed correctly.
@@theinternetelectrician I use the plastic boxes any time I can. The metal is always a pain for me, but they have their use cases. On another note, I just installed another type of "old work" plastic boxes the other day. This one has an adjustment screw that allows for the box to retract or extend outward more. It's great for backsplashes or areas that are destined to be tiled. The first one was a pain, but it was easier on the other 4 I installed. I can post a link (or PM you) to the item I used. BTW, thank for helping me out 10 years ago. You sent me a wire diagram for a reverse switch loop after I ordered it on your site. It took out all of the guesswork and set me straight in no time. I still have the drawing to this day.
THANK YOU!!! I Spent about an hour trying to remove an old box that held the thermostat for old removed electrical base board heaters. I fought with those side brackets thinking they slid up or down to lock the box in place. This video showed me I had to unwrap those 4 tabs!!! This box was attached to Very thin, old 3' x 7' thin wood panels that we plan to replace and paint after installing insulation behind them.
Question: how do you conceal the top and bottom tabs on the metal old work boxes when finishing the drywall? I am talking about the tabs that keep the box from falling into the opening in the wall. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciated.
Excellent video, just installed the receptacle with the back flaps - excellent tips, it’s installed and solid in the wall. As you say though, not much room in there. Thankfully I only had two wires in there
Back in the 70's we used the bendable box supports exclusively. We called them battleships. Slide them in after the box is in the wall not beforehand. Takes no time once you do a few. Today I'll use the plastic remodel boxes but occasionally I'll need to insert metal and you can still find the battleships at the box stores and distributors.
With the first box, once you have the wire in the box, you then push the box in the hole. Then you slide the f-clamps in along the side of the box and the edge of the wall. You kind of work it in at an angle. Use to use those all the time.
This video saved me. Never occurred to me the back flaps can kick in when loosening up and backing out the wire clamps. I'd have definitely cut too big of a hole. Thanks!
Welp…feel like an idiot. I have the BC777-LRB and didn’t realize the top and bottom rotated to allow the back plate of the clamp to slip in the opening. I was wondering how the heck I’d make the hole small enough but still fit those in. Thanks for the info!
Thanks for the demonstration! Do any of these old work box come with 3x2x3 (15 cu. in) size? I wanted to be able to fit in 3 - 14/2 wires into one box, and it seems that only a 15 cu.in box is code compliant. I am tapping a new line for additional light from an existing receptacle, and unfortunately that receptacle is not at the end of the circuit.
Can i use these square box for wall lights since i have a light if i install the ceiling light box it will be bigger then my lights and it will be visible thx
Yeah, it's been done. You may have to modify the fixture mounting bracket by drilling appropriate holes in it if the holes don't line up with the device mounting tabs on whatever old work device box you use.
@@theinternetelectrician so you are saying that i can use BC777-LRB box that u just showed for light fixture as will since it will be covered completely by my light fixture thanks
@@johnal4560 Yes, while lighting outlet boxes are designed to accept light fixtures and their mounting assemblies, exceptions are made for the use of a rectangular device box like this. For example, on an exterior brick wall where this type of box is easier to install, etc.
Hi, can a gang box for a NEMA 14-50 be installed safely on the drywall surface (the cable will come from the outside the wall in a conduit)? Ideally I would look to mount it where there is a stud, but it's been taken by the EVSE and its cable won't reach the outlet if it is on a different stud. Some people are telling me it will hold, but I'm concerned about pulling the whole gang box out when I try to unplug one of those big/fat NEMA 14-50 EVSE plugs. Thank you.
Its a lot easier to put the battleships in after you put the box in - esp. if you have plaster lathe walls, you will have less room to work with - but they are definitely needed for longevity :) The battleships are the only things that usually are long enough to work on century homes The standard old work boxes they have now a days - the tab screws are waaaay too short for anything bigger than 5/8 in (and most old plaster walls have anywhere from 3/4 to more than an inch "drywall")
It would have been cool to make a test jig that attaches to each box and then see how many pounds of pressure it takes to rip them out off the wall, although it looks like the second one would be the most secure.
Those orange boxes are for speaker wire, network cable, etc. Low voltage not 110! Confusing they shouldn't be in this video. Get the blue carlons for 110
@@chooch502 Agreed. They should have shown the blue boxes which are comparable to the other products. Including the orange brackets with the rest is apples to oranges.
@@lightwalker222 Ok...they must have made them once upon a time. I have a 3 gang box like that and it has seen better days. If they don't make them like that it would explain why I can't find a replacement like it.
I just replaced one of the boxes with the separate metal tabs today with a blue plastic old work box. The old box was sitting very crooked for years in our house and I finally got around to it. The blue plastic one is exactly like the low voltage one you showed in this video. I am assuming you are Canadian. Are all of these code compliant here?
@@jwpercy Yes same here; only grey plastique despite it’s the same brand (ABB/CARLON/Iberville).I would buy too in Amazon like you but maybe it’s not CSA approuved. How insurance will judge me if I have fire problem?!
Same question. The goof from our cable company cut the box opening about an 1/8" to big on all sides. That low voltage bracket slips right thru the opening. And to add insult to injury, the goof destroyed the drywall at the top but not the paper.
I had the same experience finding the plastic old work boxes at Lowes, in our town. At the neighboring town Lowes, they are in stock. Shortages happening in California Lowes.
Your electrical troubleshooting video was very useful, but I must say, you say that is your first time seeing, much less using the F- clips is concerning...(NOT THROWING NO SHADE)
Now I feel shame! I am a bad person. I just opened a bottle of Jack and will now drown my sorrows. 40+ years experience and I have failed as a human, let alone an electrician :-)
@@ddaniels2901dd Not throwing shade either. 1989 first year apprentice I used madison hangers . Not sure what type of electrical field this gent was in but I find it crazy never having seen these.
After watching this, I saw another video showing how to install the F-brackets. They go in after the box is in place. th-cam.com/video/nv4Jep9YZKA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=EzeKeNjoLpcpx2z4
What you've been looking for the PU Chemical, for manufacturing your waterproof junction box foam gasket strip, with Waterproof and fireproofing functions, should be here th-cam.com/video/7aqSaacMbhg/w-d-xo.html
Hey Terry, there's an easier way to install the "F-brackets" after you've cut out the hole for your box.
1 - (if possible) Run your wires into your box before inserting the box into the hole.
2 - Push the box into the hole.
3 - Turn the F upside down with the horizontal tips facing you.
4 - Now slide the long part of the "F" along one side of the box while trying to slide it up the inside of the drywall. Once it is as high as it can go, the short part of the leg can be pushed into the hole and slid down until it bottoms out on the drywall.
5 - Now bent the two tabs around and into the box.
6 - Now repeat for the other side.
I promise it gets easier with practice.
Alternatively, just use a better re-work box! Thanks for the tips!
@@theinternetelectrician I have had to use this F style box in kitchen islands when they have wainscoting. But yes, I do prefer the plastic old work boxes whenever possible.
@@cfgdr3 Embarrassed to say, but in all my years in the trade, this was the first time I've seen these brackets. Used the EZ 777 boxes mostly, prefer the plastic ones though, more room! But once the metal EZ boxes are clamped in, they're not pulling out if installed correctly.
@@theinternetelectrician I use the plastic boxes any time I can. The metal is always a pain for me, but they have their use cases.
On another note, I just installed another type of "old work" plastic boxes the other day. This one has an adjustment screw that allows for the box to retract or extend outward more. It's great for backsplashes or areas that are destined to be tiled. The first one was a pain, but it was easier on the other 4 I installed. I can post a link (or PM you) to the item I used.
BTW, thank for helping me out 10 years ago. You sent me a wire diagram for a reverse switch loop after I ordered it on your site. It took out all of the guesswork and set me straight in no time. I still have the drawing to this day.
@@cfgdr3 yeah, I’ve seen (but haven’t used) the adjustable boxes. Excellent idea! Glad I was able to help you out back then!
THANK YOU!!! I Spent about an hour trying to remove an old box that held the thermostat for old removed electrical base board heaters. I fought with those side brackets thinking they slid up or down to lock the box in place. This video showed me I had to unwrap those 4 tabs!!! This box was attached to Very thin, old 3' x 7' thin wood panels that we plan to replace and paint after installing insulation behind them.
Question: how do you conceal the top and bottom tabs on the metal old work boxes when finishing the drywall? I am talking about the tabs that keep the box from falling into the opening in the wall.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciated.
The cover plate will conceal them. The overall length is less than a standard wall plate. Thanks for watching!
@@theinternetelectrician Got it. Thank you for your prompt reply.
Excellent video, just installed the receptacle with the back flaps - excellent tips, it’s installed and solid in the wall. As you say though, not much room in there. Thankfully I only had two wires in there
Thanks! I hope that you gave the video a 'like'? And subscribing to the channel is much appreciated!
@@theinternetelectrician I did indeed
Back in the 70's we used the bendable box supports exclusively. We called them battleships. Slide them in after the box is in the wall not beforehand. Takes no time once you do a few. Today I'll use the plastic remodel boxes but occasionally I'll need to insert metal and you can still find the battleships at the box stores and distributors.
With the first box, once you have the wire in the box, you then push the box in the hole. Then you slide the f-clamps in along the side of the box and the edge of the wall. You kind of work it in at an angle. Use to use those all the time.
This video saved me. Never occurred to me the back flaps can kick in when loosening up and backing out the wire clamps. I'd have definitely cut too big of a hole. Thanks!
Glad it helped Brian!
Welp…feel like an idiot. I have the BC777-LRB and didn’t realize the top and bottom rotated to allow the back plate of the clamp to slip in the opening. I was wondering how the heck I’d make the hole small enough but still fit those in. Thanks for the info!
Thanks for the demonstration! Do any of these old work box come with 3x2x3 (15 cu. in) size? I wanted to be able to fit in 3 - 14/2 wires into one box, and it seems that only a 15 cu.in box is code compliant. I am tapping a new line for additional light from an existing receptacle, and unfortunately that receptacle is not at the end of the circuit.
Now that I have my 2x3 box old style box installed, I’m having a time finding wall outlets that fit in the box. Any suggestions? Thanks!
That's the problem with those. If it's too tight, go to plan B. Use a larger plastic old work box.
You had the exact same box as me (the BC777-LRB)! Thanks for your video!
Thank you so much, I got one of these boxes and it was a confusing puzzle until I saw your video
I had the answer to a DIY problem in plain signt, and didn't see it. You just showed me the path, so thanks.
Happy to help out Brian! Thanks for watching! I hope you gave it a 'like' and have subscribed to my channel. Much appreciation the comment!
Can i use these square box for wall lights since i have a light if i install the ceiling light box
it will be bigger then my lights and it will be visible thx
Yeah, it's been done. You may have to modify the fixture mounting bracket by drilling appropriate holes in it if the holes don't line up with the device mounting tabs on whatever old work device box you use.
@@theinternetelectrician so you are saying that i can use BC777-LRB box that u just showed for light fixture as will since it will be covered completely by my light fixture thanks
@@johnal4560 Yes, while lighting outlet boxes are designed to accept light fixtures and their mounting assemblies, exceptions are made for the use of a rectangular device box like this. For example, on an exterior brick wall where this type of box is easier to install, etc.
Hi, can a gang box for a NEMA 14-50 be installed safely on the drywall surface (the cable will come from the outside the wall in a conduit)? Ideally I would look to mount it where there is a stud, but it's been taken by the EVSE and its cable won't reach the outlet if it is on a different stud. Some people are telling me it will hold, but I'm concerned about pulling the whole gang box out when I try to unplug one of those big/fat NEMA 14-50 EVSE plugs. Thank you.
Thanks buddy. Quite helpful.
They make old/new work plastic boxes which attach to studs using internal screws and thereby don't rely on the drywall for support.
So if you’re mounting a outlet box in a kitchen island why is it so hard to locate shallow metal boxes?
Put the metal box in first then slide your madison bars on the side you will never lose them
Good advice!
Its a lot easier to put the battleships in after you put the box in - esp. if you have plaster lathe walls, you will have less room to work with - but they are definitely needed for longevity :) The battleships are the only things that usually are long enough to work on century homes
The standard old work boxes they have now a days - the tab screws are waaaay too short for anything bigger than 5/8 in (and most old plaster walls have anywhere from 3/4 to more than an inch "drywall")
Thank you friend for your smarts
It would have been cool to make a test jig that attaches to each box and then see how many pounds of pressure it takes to rip them out off the wall, although it looks like the second one would be the most secure.
hi can you use the 3rd box for an outlet use or is preferable to use a full enclosed box? thanks for your response
You must use a full enclosed box for an outlet in the United States, and they do make enclosed boxes with tabs like what is shown.
Those orange boxes are for speaker wire, network cable, etc. Low voltage not 110! Confusing they shouldn't be in this video.
Get the blue carlons for 110
@@chooch502 Agreed. They should have shown the blue boxes which are comparable to the other products. Including the orange brackets with the rest is apples to oranges.
That was exactly my question. If the orange ones could be used for outlet boxes.
@@lightwalker222 Ok...they must have made them once upon a time. I have a 3 gang box like that and it has seen better days. If they don't make them like that it would explain why I can't find a replacement like it.
I just replaced one of the boxes with the separate metal tabs today with a blue plastic old work box. The old box was sitting very crooked for years in our house and I finally got around to it. The blue plastic one is exactly like the low voltage one you showed in this video.
I am assuming you are Canadian. Are all of these code compliant here?
I don't know if it's ok in Canada. I can't find bluebox in the shop....
@@UlysseGrd I ordered them from Amazon. I could only find the grey plastic boxes and the metal old work boxes at home centres here.
@@jwpercy Yes same here; only grey plastique despite it’s the same brand (ABB/CARLON/Iberville).I would buy too in Amazon like you but maybe it’s not CSA approuved. How insurance will judge me if I have fire problem?!
Hello. Thank you for the video. Are rework/old-work welded metal boxes available for 2-gang?
The first metal box he worked with can be attached to a second box by removing one of the sides, it is made modular
Thank you.
Any recommendations on what type of box to use if the opening is slightly larger than any of the boxes you shoe in the video?
Same question. The goof from our cable company cut the box opening about an 1/8" to big on all sides. That low voltage bracket slips right thru the opening. And to add insult to injury, the goof destroyed the drywall at the top but not the paper.
You install the box first then you slide the retainers on the sides
September 2021... No old work boxes, anywhere. All Lowes, home Depot's and Ace, are out of stock.
More shortages! Go to an electrical wholesaler. They will do cash account counter sales.
@@theinternetelectrician good idea. I wish I would've thought of it during business hours. I have to get work done this weekend. Uhgg
I had the same experience finding the plastic old work boxes at Lowes, in our town. At the neighboring town Lowes, they are in stock. Shortages happening in California Lowes.
Still having that problem.... especially in 3". I can get by the case of 125 but I only need 5.
I live I ke the blue carbon ones best
Your electrical troubleshooting video was very useful, but I must say, you say that is your first time seeing, much less using the F- clips is concerning...(NOT THROWING NO SHADE)
Now I feel shame! I am a bad person. I just opened a bottle of Jack and will now drown my sorrows. 40+ years experience and I have failed as a human, let alone an electrician :-)
@@theinternetelectrician no sir, not at all. I really did not mean that as a dig, so step away from the bottle 😬
@@ddaniels2901dd I was joking, no worries Dion! :-)
@@theinternetelectrician I know...good day sir
@@ddaniels2901dd Not throwing shade either. 1989 first year apprentice I used madison hangers . Not sure what type of electrical field this gent was in but I find it crazy never having seen these.
What the hell are those dimples for other than making for a hard install? They make fitting f clips difficult as as wrestling honey from a bear
After watching this, I saw another video showing how to install the F-brackets. They go in after the box is in place. th-cam.com/video/nv4Jep9YZKA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=EzeKeNjoLpcpx2z4
What you've been looking for the PU Chemical, for manufacturing your waterproof junction box foam gasket strip, with Waterproof and fireproofing functions, should be here th-cam.com/video/7aqSaacMbhg/w-d-xo.html
hole is crooked lol
If my boss saw me using one of those oscillating tools, I would get chewed out decently...
Why? Would he rather you butcher out the hole using a key-hole saw? Best tool invention ever is the oscillating tool!
@@theinternetelectrician I agree. I use both. Much more precision with the oscillating tool.
@@azgardener79 Even Tommy Silva uses one.
@@theinternetelectrician You tell 'em Terry, the oscillating tool rocks!
Wakwaw